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\"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 744.511, \"end\": 744.531, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 744.531, \"end\": 744.551, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,854 --> 00:00:24,927\n謝謝主席有請我們法務部正部長好正部長我請人事長人事長人事長你先人事長上個禮拜好多假日來得又急又快\n\n2\n00:00:26,224 --> 00:00:50,747\n大家都懷疑了懷疑人家他唱歌有人幫歌的當然也唱那針對這個新增國定假日這件事情講得更直接一點就是說其實就剩下總統公告而已嘛對總統公告之後這個整個新的制度就要來上路了時間緊那應該是挑戰也大大家好奇就是說你們人總你們這樣準備好嗎\n\n3\n00:00:54,341 --> 00:01:21,514\n這個要當總統三度過,我們也是要再簽行政委因為這裡面以今年三個假日來講一個是禮拜六、一個禮拜天、一個禮拜四嘛對啊,拜時的到底有要補假嗎?因為有的人是很不需要補假的,如果可以補假,不要他們補上班啦逮捕那些人的期待啦像這樣的話,因為雖然也是有一天禮拜五要上班這些細節我們還是要簽行政院啦\n\n4\n00:01:22,174 --> 00:01:36,986\n所以這個其實我看幾乎快定案了啦就有待總統去做一個公告但是你們該準備的還是要準備啦你像譬如說你這個這也不是明年的事情\n\n5\n00:01:37,526 --> 00:01:53,189\n今年你就要去實施像你提到的三個節日的問題有一個禮拜六有一個是禮拜天這個不只是公務機關啦還包括民間的公司學校醫療院所又交通單位咧你們這就不怕排成調人力調人力甚至有預算像譬如說你剛提到那兩個會不會補放的問題或是說你會把那個整個連續假期你要是往前還是往後去挪\n\n6\n00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:33,565\n這個人總這邊其實應該是要未雨綢繆啦你自己創作好資料讓民眾可以一清二楚簡單又明瞭事先做一個規劃這個就是一個生活的一個秩序嘛我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣啦這我是覺得你要提早去做一個準備另外就是說你看人總每一年大約都是在年中去公告隔年的辦公日曆啦\n\n7\n00:02:34,666 --> 00:02:47,755\n你每年的日曆是不是一併去做公告那你今年修正版的日曆你當時的功課是不是跟每年的你做回去的功課還是要分開去做一個功課這有一個好處啦你這個本來你的職長本來就是責無旁貸\n\n8\n00:02:52,739 --> 00:02:57,664\n他們好好地去盤點所有的配套統一規劃這樣有一個節奏清楚對外說明各單位也好企業也好他們也要知道說要怎麼安排不然大家在那各自解讀高雄又亂成一團來任省我給委員報告啦這裡目前今年度的規定是如果拜六\n\n9\n00:03:16,804 --> 00:03:39,794\n下課就是拜五補課你如果要拜那裡不就要拜就是拜陰嘛那就是目前的情形剛才委員講的那其實就是我們目前已經在作業在規劃階段因為我們要處理的一個是今年在總統公告之後三讀公告之後下半年就是三個階段我們要怎麼處理同時明年的\n\n10\n00:03:40,234 --> 00:04:05,814\n事實上明年的我們大概在3月份就已經草擬好了啦但是不然這次我們會重新整理一下阿目標齁目標應該是看六月第一天因為哎呀委員報告因為那剛才委員在講的那是跟金融有關跟教育部有關經濟部也有關勞動部行動部會都有關我們會先跟他們一起開會討論\n\n11\n00:04:07,415 --> 00:04:27,211\n找出一個共識節,最大公約數啦,這樣這叫做沐浴成熟,這通過後,假多了這麼多天以後放假的人一定會很開心,可是該規劃的要未雨綢繆好,好不好?OK,沒問題,好,謝謝董事長請回,請我們法務部政府部長還有我們矯正署署長來,部長、署長\n\n12\n00:04:38,784 --> 00:04:58,151\n本席在去年12月質詢過我們署長就關於整個累進廚藝的一個問題那這個會期其實我也排了很多的一個監所去做一個考察就是要了解現行累進廚藝的一個機制的一個問題所以今天我來繼續追蹤我一直都認為說這個\n\n13\n00:05:01,189 --> 00:05:14,797\n案件一發生尤其是刑事犯罪發生以後社會常常是軒然大波但是等到這個法案判決確定以後我想這是已經到一個段落那是另外一個階段的一個開始也就是說我一直都認為\n\n14\n00:05:16,277 --> 00:05:39,663\n你犯罪者你受到應有的應報應有的處罰法案的一個判決這個其實都很合理啊可是呢當他成為一個受刑人到監獄去以後啊監獄應該就不是一個人性的一個終點反而他是一個救贖的一個起跑線那應該另外一個改端嘛所以呢怎樣去構築更安全的一個社會安全網\n\n15\n00:05:40,723 --> 00:05:42,926\n不要說這些社會亂亂的了選舉一個軒然大波你亂社會國家給你硬爆給你處罰這合理啊可是呢就是說你這個監獄的門你要關注這個罪犯關注這些犯罪\n\n16\n00:05:58,303 --> 00:06:16,268\n可是他進去你也要敞開一個希望,給他一個希望。我想請教署長,我剛才說的累進求餘的部分,我已經點解,你也說往廢除的方向去做一個前進,那你們現在的進度,現在是到哪一個階段,是不是也跟大家來做一個報告?\n\n17\n00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:32,173\n是報告委員我們本署在明天會針對離境處議再召開一次的會議我們希望在明天召開之後就可以等於可以完成之後我們會盡快來報佈\n\n18\n00:06:34,989 --> 00:06:59,511\n是我實在是都在法務部你們做一些報告之後我們辦公室來討論我覺得你們有道理我們持續追蹤這個其實都是整個預證的一個改革立法院對你們表達一個支持另外我要繼續講的就是說這個以現在來看的話雷神廚藝將壽星人按照不同的等級給予相應的一個權利你去看這個壽星人剛進去監獄的時候\n\n19\n00:07:01,713 --> 00:07:27,660\n有時候你會覺得那是家鄉跟壽星人之間那種連動其實壽星人這個時候反而是最需要家人的一個支持你初期在服刑的時候你跟家人聯繫深刻去反省的階段但是我們現在的一個累進處役剛好相反你去限縮接近跟通信的一個機會跟教化的初衷其實我覺得都要背道而馳署長你的看法\n\n20\n00:07:30,819 --> 00:07:56,791\n我是同意委員的意見因為累進廚藝是在民國35年那時候制定的那現在因為時空的變化所以剛剛委員提的那個親情的關懷是很重要的我們將來在修法裡面除了這個之外包括說不合理的現象市級可以看電視三級反而\n\n21\n00:07:58,871 --> 00:08:21,981\n收音機這個是以前是留聲機留聲機又等於收音機是三級才可以持有那我們現在的社會電視很普遍所以它四級就可以持有反過來會問說四級可以持有電視那三級才能夠持有收音機這個好像怪怪的\n\n22\n00:08:22,421 --> 00:08:44,667\n所以類似這種我們都會一併來檢討另外跟委員報告我們這個連線處理的重點會縮短刑期把他拉高跟外遇間一般監獄跟外遇間差異不要那麼大另外就是要跟假釋來透過那這樣子我想對於我們整個管理運作會有正面的幫助\n\n23\n00:08:45,430 --> 00:08:58,357\n其實你有講到一個重點了啦,就是說,你說要這個跟假式來做一個透過,以你目前來看的話,你看那個教會師啊,這柏林你剛才聽到書長在說,就是變大就好像每一個教會師都變成一個,好像數學老師一樣,大家都在玩數字遊戲啊。\n\n24\n00:09:05,574 --> 00:09:21,144\n檢察官或者我們檢調人員司法機關去打擊犯罪這個都是符合社會的一個期待可是當他是一個受刑人進入到另外一個階段除非你要把他擁事把他做一個隔絕不然你不是要讓他再社會化嗎\n\n25\n00:09:22,125 --> 00:09:25,546\n你現在來看的話你像刑刑累進處以裡面你根據的等級越高你縮刑的日數本來就越高的一個規定你若要求達到二級才能提報去做一個假釋也就是說我們現在刑法77條的一個假釋你本來受徒刑的執行而有圈毀實據的話\n\n26\n00:09:41,132 --> 00:09:53,420\n有基督行你說二十五宗有基督行二分之一累進到這個累犯是三分之二那你就監獄報警法務部的時候那得以假釋來出獄可是以現在來看的話你又要達到滿二級這就像書長你剛才說到的這個整個方向你要往哪裡去走我反而會覺得啊這個都是值得我們修法的一個思考的一個方向你知道書長你要看我是怎樣\n\n27\n00:10:09,886 --> 00:10:29,921\n我們這一套累進除也好假釋也好是行之很久了當然我們會把它做適當的修正但是我們不是完全把它匯除我們是在監獄學習法有一個專章把可以適用的一些條文把它匯整後納進去當然不會自愛難行\n\n28\n00:10:33,183 --> 00:10:51,910\n我現在擔心的就是說其實這一套考核的一個制度啊你也很清楚了就變成混亂掉了你受刑人沒有辦法去了解到自己的一個分數的一個情況之下你整個變成大家在玩數字的一個遊戲啊那我在想啦就是說以現行的這一行政來看的話\n\n29\n00:10:53,123 --> 00:11:11,191\n不應該像以現在來看的話就大部分都是比較類似於那種壓迫性的一個服從啦倒不是從教化這個部分去造一個著眼講這個社會大眾未必聽得下去啦有的人認為說你這個犯罪啦你本來就是受到這個報應這個我都贊成\n\n30\n00:11:13,792 --> 00:11:31,091\n但是我都認為有好幾個階段好幾個階段除非啊監獄是完全要關注犯罪的地方不給這些受刑人敞開任何希望的地方那我就沒話講但是呢這個都值得我們這整個掌管最高這監獄行政的\n\n31\n00:11:31,491 --> 00:11:45,662\n法務部或者我們家政署這個地方一併來做一個思考啦畢竟我們也我看學者專家還有法務部我們都有那麼多的一個學者專家去做一個研究往更好的一個方向去走啦有時候\n\n32\n00:11:47,463 --> 00:12:11,014\n我們有委託兩家大學去研究我們得出一個很重要的結論我們會簡化考核制度因為我們經過幾次的一些修法確實太複雜了有的新任的教委師他還搞不太清楚所以我們會朝著簡化考核制度讓每個教委師更有效率更能夠保障受用人的權益\n\n33\n00:12:11,494 --> 00:12:24,551\n所以我該講的還是要講啦不然我今天本集講的這一句話哪一天又有一個重大案件發生的時候把這一句話又連結的話那個都又是政治口水啦可是呢該改革的方向還是要改革好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3854\t24927\t謝謝主席 有請我們法務部正部長好 正部長我請人事長 人事長人事長 你先人事長 上個禮拜好多假日來得又急又快\n26224\t50747\t大家都懷疑了 懷疑人家他唱歌 有人幫歌的當然也唱那針對這個新增國定假日這件事情講得更直接一點 就是說其實就剩下總統公告而已嘛對 總統公告之後 這個整個新的制度就要來上路了時間緊 那應該是挑戰也大 大家好奇就是說你們人總 你們這樣準備好嗎\n54341\t81514\t這個要當總統三度過,我們也是要再簽行政委因為這裡面以今年三個假日來講一個是禮拜六、一個禮拜天、一個禮拜四嘛對啊,拜時的到底有要補假嗎?因為有的人是很不需要補假的,如果可以補假,不要他們補上班啦逮捕那些人的期待啦像這樣的話,因為雖然也是有一天禮拜五要上班這些細節我們還是要簽行政院啦\n82174\t96986\t所以這個其實我看幾乎快定案了啦就有待總統去做一個公告但是你們該準備的還是要準備啦你像譬如說你這個這也不是明年的事情\n97526\t113189\t今年你就要去實施 像你提到的三個節日的問題有一個禮拜六 有一個是禮拜天這個不只是公務機關啦 還包括民間的公司 學校 醫療 院所 又交通單位咧你們這就不怕排成 調人力 調人力 甚至有預算像譬如說 你剛提到那兩個 會不會補放的問題或是說你會把那個整個連續假期 你要是往前還是往後去挪\n128640\t153565\t這個人總這邊其實應該是要未雨綢繆啦你自己創作好資料 讓民眾可以一清二楚簡單又明瞭 事先做一個規劃這個就是一個生活的一個秩序嘛我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣啦這我是覺得你要提早去做一個準備另外就是說 你看人總每一年大約都是在年中去公告隔年的辦公日曆啦\n154666\t167755\t你每年的日曆是不是一併去做公告那你今年修正版的日曆你當時的功課是不是跟每年的你做回去的功課還是要分開去做一個功課這有一個好處啦你這個本來你的職長本來就是責無旁貸\n172739\t177664\t他們好好地去盤點所有的配套統一規劃這樣有一個節奏清楚對外說明各單位也好 企業也好他們也要知道說要怎麼安排不然大家在那各自解讀 高雄又亂成一團來 任省我給委員報告啦 這裡目前今年度的規定是如果拜六\n196804\t219794\t下課就是拜五補課你如果要拜那裡不就要拜就是拜陰嘛那就是目前的情形剛才委員講的那其實就是我們目前已經在作業在規劃階段因為我們要處理的一個是今年在總統公告之後三讀公告之後下半年就是三個階段我們要怎麼處理同時明年的\n220234\t245814\t事實上明年的我們大概在3月份就已經草擬好了啦但是不然這次我們會重新整理一下阿目標齁 目標應該是看六月第一天 因為哎呀 委員報告 因為那剛才委員在講的 那是跟金融有關跟教育部有關 經濟部也有關 勞動部 行動部會都有關我們會先跟他們一起開會討論\n247415\t267211\t找出一個共識節,最大公約數啦,這樣這叫做沐浴成熟,這通過後,假多了這麼多天以後放假的人一定會很開心,可是該規劃的要未雨綢繆好,好不好?OK,沒問題,好,謝謝董事長請回,請我們法務部政府部長還有我們矯正署署長來,部長、署長\n278784\t298151\t本席在去年12月質詢過我們署長就關於整個累進廚藝的一個問題那這個會期其實我也排了很多的一個監所去做一個考察就是要了解現行累進廚藝的一個機制的一個問題所以今天我來繼續追蹤我一直都認為說這個\n301189\t314797\t案件一發生尤其是刑事犯罪發生以後社會常常是軒然大波但是等到這個法案判決確定以後我想這是已經到一個段落那是另外一個階段的一個開始也就是說我一直都認為\n316277\t339663\t你犯罪者你受到應有的應報 應有的處罰 法案的一個判決這個其實都很合理啊 可是呢 當他成為一個受刑人到監獄去以後啊監獄應該就不是一個人性的一個終點 反而他是一個救贖的一個起跑線那應該另外一個改端嘛所以呢 怎樣去構築更安全的一個社會安全網\n340723\t342926\t不要說這些社會亂亂的了 選舉一個軒然大波你亂社會 國家給你硬爆 給你處罰 這合理啊可是呢 就是說 你這個監獄的門 你要關注這個罪犯關注這些犯罪\n358303\t376268\t可是他進去你也要敞開一個希望,給他一個希望。我想請教署長,我剛才說的累進求餘的部分,我已經點解,你也說往廢除的方向去做一個前進,那你們現在的進度,現在是到哪一個階段,是不是也跟大家來做一個報告?\n377279\t392173\t是 報告委員我們本署在明天會針對離境處議再召開一次的會議我們希望在明天召開之後就可以等於可以完成之後我們會盡快來報佈\n394989\t419511\t是 我實在是都在法務部 你們做一些報告之後我們辦公室來討論 我覺得你們有道理 我們持續追蹤這個其實都是整個預證的一個改革 立法院對你們表達一個支持另外我要繼續講的就是說 這個以現在來看的話 雷神廚藝將壽星人按照不同的等級給予相應的一個權利你去看這個壽星人剛進去監獄的時候\n421713\t447660\t有時候你會覺得那是家鄉跟壽星人之間那種連動其實壽星人這個時候反而是最需要家人的一個支持你初期在服刑的時候你跟家人聯繫深刻去反省的階段但是我們現在的一個累進處役剛好相反你去限縮接近跟通信的一個機會跟教化的初衷其實我覺得都要背道而馳署長你的看法\n450819\t476791\t我是同意委員的意見因為累進廚藝是在民國35年那時候制定的那現在因為時空的變化所以剛剛委員提的那個親情的關懷是很重要的我們將來在修法裡面除了這個之外包括說不合理的現象市級可以看電視 三級反而\n478871\t501981\t收音機這個是以前是留聲機留聲機又等於收音機是三級才可以持有那我們現在的社會電視很普遍所以它四級就可以持有反過來會問說四級可以持有電視那三級才能夠持有收音機這個好像怪怪的\n502421\t524667\t所以類似這種我們都會一併來檢討另外跟委員報告我們這個連線處理的重點會縮短刑期把他拉高跟外遇間一般監獄跟外遇間差異不要那麼大另外就是要跟假釋來透過那這樣子我想對於我們整個管理運作會有正面的幫助\n525430\t538357\t其實你有講到一個重點了啦,就是說,你說要這個跟假式來做一個透過,以你目前來看的話,你看那個教會師啊,這柏林你剛才聽到書長在說,就是變大就好像每一個教會師都變成一個,好像數學老師一樣,大家都在玩數字遊戲啊。\n545574\t561144\t檢察官或者我們檢調人員司法機關去打擊犯罪這個都是符合社會的一個期待可是當他是一個受刑人進入到另外一個階段除非你要把他擁事把他做一個隔絕不然你不是要讓他再社會化嗎\n562125\t565546\t你現在來看的話 你像刑刑累進處以裡面你根據的等級越高 你縮刑的日數本來就越高的一個規定你若要求達到二級才能提報去做一個假釋也就是說我們現在刑法77條的一個假釋你本來受徒刑的執行 而有圈毀實據的話\n581132\t593420\t有基督行你說二十五宗 有基督行二分之一累進到這個累犯是三分之二那你就監獄報警法務部的時候 那得以假釋來出獄可是以現在來看的話 你又要達到滿二級這就像書長你剛才說到的這個整個方向你要往哪裡去走我反而會覺得啊 這個都是值得我們修法的一個思考的一個方向你知道書長你要看我是怎樣\n609886\t629921\t我們這一套累進除也好假釋也好是行之很久了當然我們會把它做適當的修正但是我們不是完全把它匯除我們是在監獄學習法有一個專章把可以適用的一些條文把它匯整後納進去當然不會自愛難行\n633183\t651910\t我現在擔心的就是說其實這一套考核的一個制度啊你也很清楚了就變成混亂掉了你受刑人沒有辦法去了解到自己的一個分數的一個情況之下你整個變成大家在玩數字的一個遊戲啊那我在想啦就是說以現行的這一行政來看的話\n653123\t671191\t不應該像以現在來看的話 就大部分都是比較類似於那種壓迫性的一個服從啦 倒不是從教化這個部分去造一個著眼講這個社會大眾未必聽得下去啦 有的人認為說你這個犯罪啦你本來就是受到這個報應 這個我都贊成\n673792\t691091\t但是我都認為有好幾個階段好幾個階段除非啊監獄是完全要關注犯罪的地方不給這些受刑人敞開任何希望的地方那我就沒話講但是呢這個都值得我們這整個掌管最高這監獄行政的\n691491\t705662\t法務部或者我們家政署這個地方一併來做一個思考啦畢竟我們也我看學者專家還有法務部我們都有那麼多的一個學者專家去做一個研究往更好的一個方向去走啦有時候\n707463\t731014\t我們有委託兩家大學去研究我們得出一個很重要的結論我們會簡化考核制度因為我們經過幾次的一些修法確實太複雜了有的新任的教委師他還搞不太清楚所以我們會朝著簡化考核制度讓每個教委師更有效率更能夠保障受用人的權益\n731494\t744551\t所以我該講的還是要講啦不然我今天本集講的這一句話哪一天又有一個重大案件發生的時候把這一句話又連結的話那個都又是政治口水啦可是呢 該改革的方向還是要改革 好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請我們法務部正部長好 正部長我請人事長 人事長人事長 你先人事長 上個禮拜好多假日來得又急又快\n大家都懷疑了 懷疑人家他唱歌 有人幫歌的當然也唱那針對這個新增國定假日這件事情講得更直接一點 就是說其實就剩下總統公告而已嘛對 總統公告之後 這個整個新的制度就要來上路了時間緊 那應該是挑戰也大 大家好奇就是說你們人總 你們這樣準備好嗎\n這個要當總統三度過,我們也是要再簽行政委因為這裡面以今年三個假日來講一個是禮拜六、一個禮拜天、一個禮拜四嘛對啊,拜時的到底有要補假嗎?因為有的人是很不需要補假的,如果可以補假,不要他們補上班啦逮捕那些人的期待啦像這樣的話,因為雖然也是有一天禮拜五要上班這些細節我們還是要簽行政院啦\n所以這個其實我看幾乎快定案了啦就有待總統去做一個公告但是你們該準備的還是要準備啦你像譬如說你這個這也不是明年的事情\n今年你就要去實施 像你提到的三個節日的問題有一個禮拜六 有一個是禮拜天這個不只是公務機關啦 還包括民間的公司 學校 醫療 院所 又交通單位咧你們這就不怕排成 調人力 調人力 甚至有預算像譬如說 你剛提到那兩個 會不會補放的問題或是說你會把那個整個連續假期 你要是往前還是往後去挪\n這個人總這邊其實應該是要未雨綢繆啦你自己創作好資料 讓民眾可以一清二楚簡單又明瞭 事先做一個規劃這個就是一個生活的一個秩序嘛我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣啦這我是覺得你要提早去做一個準備另外就是說 你看人總每一年大約都是在年中去公告隔年的辦公日曆啦\n你每年的日曆是不是一併去做公告那你今年修正版的日曆你當時的功課是不是跟每年的你做回去的功課還是要分開去做一個功課這有一個好處啦你這個本來你的職長本來就是責無旁貸\n他們好好地去盤點所有的配套統一規劃這樣有一個節奏清楚對外說明各單位也好 企業也好他們也要知道說要怎麼安排不然大家在那各自解讀 高雄又亂成一團來 任省我給委員報告啦 這裡目前今年度的規定是如果拜六\n下課就是拜五補課你如果要拜那裡不就要拜就是拜陰嘛那就是目前的情形剛才委員講的那其實就是我們目前已經在作業在規劃階段因為我們要處理的一個是今年在總統公告之後三讀公告之後下半年就是三個階段我們要怎麼處理同時明年的\n事實上明年的我們大概在3月份就已經草擬好了啦但是不然這次我們會重新整理一下阿目標齁 目標應該是看六月第一天 因為哎呀 委員報告 因為那剛才委員在講的 那是跟金融有關跟教育部有關 經濟部也有關 勞動部 行動部會都有關我們會先跟他們一起開會討論\n找出一個共識節,最大公約數啦,這樣這叫做沐浴成熟,這通過後,假多了這麼多天以後放假的人一定會很開心,可是該規劃的要未雨綢繆好,好不好?OK,沒問題,好,謝謝董事長請回,請我們法務部政府部長還有我們矯正署署長來,部長、署長\n本席在去年12月質詢過我們署長就關於整個累進廚藝的一個問題那這個會期其實我也排了很多的一個監所去做一個考察就是要了解現行累進廚藝的一個機制的一個問題所以今天我來繼續追蹤我一直都認為說這個\n案件一發生尤其是刑事犯罪發生以後社會常常是軒然大波但是等到這個法案判決確定以後我想這是已經到一個段落那是另外一個階段的一個開始也就是說我一直都認為\n你犯罪者你受到應有的應報 應有的處罰 法案的一個判決這個其實都很合理啊 可是呢 當他成為一個受刑人到監獄去以後啊監獄應該就不是一個人性的一個終點 反而他是一個救贖的一個起跑線那應該另外一個改端嘛所以呢 怎樣去構築更安全的一個社會安全網\n不要說這些社會亂亂的了 選舉一個軒然大波你亂社會 國家給你硬爆 給你處罰 這合理啊可是呢 就是說 你這個監獄的門 你要關注這個罪犯關注這些犯罪\n可是他進去你也要敞開一個希望,給他一個希望。我想請教署長,我剛才說的累進求餘的部分,我已經點解,你也說往廢除的方向去做一個前進,那你們現在的進度,現在是到哪一個階段,是不是也跟大家來做一個報告?\n是 報告委員我們本署在明天會針對離境處議再召開一次的會議我們希望在明天召開之後就可以等於可以完成之後我們會盡快來報佈\n是 我實在是都在法務部 你們做一些報告之後我們辦公室來討論 我覺得你們有道理 我們持續追蹤這個其實都是整個預證的一個改革 立法院對你們表達一個支持另外我要繼續講的就是說 這個以現在來看的話 雷神廚藝將壽星人按照不同的等級給予相應的一個權利你去看這個壽星人剛進去監獄的時候\n有時候你會覺得那是家鄉跟壽星人之間那種連動其實壽星人這個時候反而是最需要家人的一個支持你初期在服刑的時候你跟家人聯繫深刻去反省的階段但是我們現在的一個累進處役剛好相反你去限縮接近跟通信的一個機會跟教化的初衷其實我覺得都要背道而馳署長你的看法\n我是同意委員的意見因為累進廚藝是在民國35年那時候制定的那現在因為時空的變化所以剛剛委員提的那個親情的關懷是很重要的我們將來在修法裡面除了這個之外包括說不合理的現象市級可以看電視 三級反而\n收音機這個是以前是留聲機留聲機又等於收音機是三級才可以持有那我們現在的社會電視很普遍所以它四級就可以持有反過來會問說四級可以持有電視那三級才能夠持有收音機這個好像怪怪的\n所以類似這種我們都會一併來檢討另外跟委員報告我們這個連線處理的重點會縮短刑期把他拉高跟外遇間一般監獄跟外遇間差異不要那麼大另外就是要跟假釋來透過那這樣子我想對於我們整個管理運作會有正面的幫助\n其實你有講到一個重點了啦,就是說,你說要這個跟假式來做一個透過,以你目前來看的話,你看那個教會師啊,這柏林你剛才聽到書長在說,就是變大就好像每一個教會師都變成一個,好像數學老師一樣,大家都在玩數字遊戲啊。\n檢察官或者我們檢調人員司法機關去打擊犯罪這個都是符合社會的一個期待可是當他是一個受刑人進入到另外一個階段除非你要把他擁事把他做一個隔絕不然你不是要讓他再社會化嗎\n你現在來看的話 你像刑刑累進處以裡面你根據的等級越高 你縮刑的日數本來就越高的一個規定你若要求達到二級才能提報去做一個假釋也就是說我們現在刑法77條的一個假釋你本來受徒刑的執行 而有圈毀實據的話\n有基督行你說二十五宗 有基督行二分之一累進到這個累犯是三分之二那你就監獄報警法務部的時候 那得以假釋來出獄可是以現在來看的話 你又要達到滿二級這就像書長你剛才說到的這個整個方向你要往哪裡去走我反而會覺得啊 這個都是值得我們修法的一個思考的一個方向你知道書長你要看我是怎樣\n我們這一套累進除也好假釋也好是行之很久了當然我們會把它做適當的修正但是我們不是完全把它匯除我們是在監獄學習法有一個專章把可以適用的一些條文把它匯整後納進去當然不會自愛難行\n我現在擔心的就是說其實這一套考核的一個制度啊你也很清楚了就變成混亂掉了你受刑人沒有辦法去了解到自己的一個分數的一個情況之下你整個變成大家在玩數字的一個遊戲啊那我在想啦就是說以現行的這一行政來看的話\n不應該像以現在來看的話 就大部分都是比較類似於那種壓迫性的一個服從啦 倒不是從教化這個部分去造一個著眼講這個社會大眾未必聽得下去啦 有的人認為說你這個犯罪啦你本來就是受到這個報應 這個我都贊成\n但是我都認為有好幾個階段好幾個階段除非啊監獄是完全要關注犯罪的地方不給這些受刑人敞開任何希望的地方那我就沒話講但是呢這個都值得我們這整個掌管最高這監獄行政的\n法務部或者我們家政署這個地方一併來做一個思考啦畢竟我們也我看學者專家還有法務部我們都有那麼多的一個學者專家去做一個研究往更好的一個方向去走啦有時候\n我們有委託兩家大學去研究我們得出一個很重要的結論我們會簡化考核制度因為我們經過幾次的一些修法確實太複雜了有的新任的教委師他還搞不太清楚所以我們會朝著簡化考核制度讓每個教委師更有效率更能夠保障受用人的權益\n所以我該講的還是要講啦不然我今天本集講的這一句話哪一天又有一個重大案件發生的時候把這一句話又連結的話那個都又是政治口水啦可是呢 該改革的方向還是要改革 好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.854 --> 00:24.927\n謝謝主席有請我們法務部正部長好正部長我請人事長人事長人事長你先人事長上個禮拜好多假日來得又急又快\n\n00:26.224 --> 00:50.747\n大家都懷疑了懷疑人家他唱歌有人幫歌的當然也唱那針對這個新增國定假日這件事情講得更直接一點就是說其實就剩下總統公告而已嘛對總統公告之後這個整個新的制度就要來上路了時間緊那應該是挑戰也大大家好奇就是說你們人總你們這樣準備好嗎\n\n00:54.341 --> 01:21.514\n這個要當總統三度過,我們也是要再簽行政委因為這裡面以今年三個假日來講一個是禮拜六、一個禮拜天、一個禮拜四嘛對啊,拜時的到底有要補假嗎?因為有的人是很不需要補假的,如果可以補假,不要他們補上班啦逮捕那些人的期待啦像這樣的話,因為雖然也是有一天禮拜五要上班這些細節我們還是要簽行政院啦\n\n01:22.174 --> 01:36.986\n所以這個其實我看幾乎快定案了啦就有待總統去做一個公告但是你們該準備的還是要準備啦你像譬如說你這個這也不是明年的事情\n\n01:37.526 --> 01:53.189\n今年你就要去實施像你提到的三個節日的問題有一個禮拜六有一個是禮拜天這個不只是公務機關啦還包括民間的公司學校醫療院所又交通單位咧你們這就不怕排成調人力調人力甚至有預算像譬如說你剛提到那兩個會不會補放的問題或是說你會把那個整個連續假期你要是往前還是往後去挪\n\n02:08.640 --> 02:33.565\n這個人總這邊其實應該是要未雨綢繆啦你自己創作好資料讓民眾可以一清二楚簡單又明瞭事先做一個規劃這個就是一個生活的一個秩序嘛我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣啦這我是覺得你要提早去做一個準備另外就是說你看人總每一年大約都是在年中去公告隔年的辦公日曆啦\n\n02:34.666 --> 02:47.755\n你每年的日曆是不是一併去做公告那你今年修正版的日曆你當時的功課是不是跟每年的你做回去的功課還是要分開去做一個功課這有一個好處啦你這個本來你的職長本來就是責無旁貸\n\n02:52.739 --> 02:57.664\n他們好好地去盤點所有的配套統一規劃這樣有一個節奏清楚對外說明各單位也好企業也好他們也要知道說要怎麼安排不然大家在那各自解讀高雄又亂成一團來任省我給委員報告啦這裡目前今年度的規定是如果拜六\n\n03:16.804 --> 03:39.794\n下課就是拜五補課你如果要拜那裡不就要拜就是拜陰嘛那就是目前的情形剛才委員講的那其實就是我們目前已經在作業在規劃階段因為我們要處理的一個是今年在總統公告之後三讀公告之後下半年就是三個階段我們要怎麼處理同時明年的\n\n03:40.234 --> 04:05.814\n事實上明年的我們大概在3月份就已經草擬好了啦但是不然這次我們會重新整理一下阿目標齁目標應該是看六月第一天因為哎呀委員報告因為那剛才委員在講的那是跟金融有關跟教育部有關經濟部也有關勞動部行動部會都有關我們會先跟他們一起開會討論\n\n04:07.415 --> 04:27.211\n找出一個共識節,最大公約數啦,這樣這叫做沐浴成熟,這通過後,假多了這麼多天以後放假的人一定會很開心,可是該規劃的要未雨綢繆好,好不好?OK,沒問題,好,謝謝董事長請回,請我們法務部政府部長還有我們矯正署署長來,部長、署長\n\n04:38.784 --> 04:58.151\n本席在去年12月質詢過我們署長就關於整個累進廚藝的一個問題那這個會期其實我也排了很多的一個監所去做一個考察就是要了解現行累進廚藝的一個機制的一個問題所以今天我來繼續追蹤我一直都認為說這個\n\n05:01.189 --> 05:14.797\n案件一發生尤其是刑事犯罪發生以後社會常常是軒然大波但是等到這個法案判決確定以後我想這是已經到一個段落那是另外一個階段的一個開始也就是說我一直都認為\n\n05:16.277 --> 05:39.663\n你犯罪者你受到應有的應報應有的處罰法案的一個判決這個其實都很合理啊可是呢當他成為一個受刑人到監獄去以後啊監獄應該就不是一個人性的一個終點反而他是一個救贖的一個起跑線那應該另外一個改端嘛所以呢怎樣去構築更安全的一個社會安全網\n\n05:40.723 --> 05:42.926\n不要說這些社會亂亂的了選舉一個軒然大波你亂社會國家給你硬爆給你處罰這合理啊可是呢就是說你這個監獄的門你要關注這個罪犯關注這些犯罪\n\n05:58.303 --> 06:16.268\n可是他進去你也要敞開一個希望,給他一個希望。我想請教署長,我剛才說的累進求餘的部分,我已經點解,你也說往廢除的方向去做一個前進,那你們現在的進度,現在是到哪一個階段,是不是也跟大家來做一個報告?\n\n06:17.279 --> 06:32.173\n是報告委員我們本署在明天會針對離境處議再召開一次的會議我們希望在明天召開之後就可以等於可以完成之後我們會盡快來報佈\n\n06:34.989 --> 06:59.511\n是我實在是都在法務部你們做一些報告之後我們辦公室來討論我覺得你們有道理我們持續追蹤這個其實都是整個預證的一個改革立法院對你們表達一個支持另外我要繼續講的就是說這個以現在來看的話雷神廚藝將壽星人按照不同的等級給予相應的一個權利你去看這個壽星人剛進去監獄的時候\n\n07:01.713 --> 07:27.660\n有時候你會覺得那是家鄉跟壽星人之間那種連動其實壽星人這個時候反而是最需要家人的一個支持你初期在服刑的時候你跟家人聯繫深刻去反省的階段但是我們現在的一個累進處役剛好相反你去限縮接近跟通信的一個機會跟教化的初衷其實我覺得都要背道而馳署長你的看法\n\n07:30.819 --> 07:56.791\n我是同意委員的意見因為累進廚藝是在民國35年那時候制定的那現在因為時空的變化所以剛剛委員提的那個親情的關懷是很重要的我們將來在修法裡面除了這個之外包括說不合理的現象市級可以看電視三級反而\n\n07:58.871 --> 08:21.981\n收音機這個是以前是留聲機留聲機又等於收音機是三級才可以持有那我們現在的社會電視很普遍所以它四級就可以持有反過來會問說四級可以持有電視那三級才能夠持有收音機這個好像怪怪的\n\n08:22.421 --> 08:44.667\n所以類似這種我們都會一併來檢討另外跟委員報告我們這個連線處理的重點會縮短刑期把他拉高跟外遇間一般監獄跟外遇間差異不要那麼大另外就是要跟假釋來透過那這樣子我想對於我們整個管理運作會有正面的幫助\n\n08:45.430 --> 08:58.357\n其實你有講到一個重點了啦,就是說,你說要這個跟假式來做一個透過,以你目前來看的話,你看那個教會師啊,這柏林你剛才聽到書長在說,就是變大就好像每一個教會師都變成一個,好像數學老師一樣,大家都在玩數字遊戲啊。\n\n09:05.574 --> 09:21.144\n檢察官或者我們檢調人員司法機關去打擊犯罪這個都是符合社會的一個期待可是當他是一個受刑人進入到另外一個階段除非你要把他擁事把他做一個隔絕不然你不是要讓他再社會化嗎\n\n09:22.125 --> 09:25.546\n你現在來看的話你像刑刑累進處以裡面你根據的等級越高你縮刑的日數本來就越高的一個規定你若要求達到二級才能提報去做一個假釋也就是說我們現在刑法77條的一個假釋你本來受徒刑的執行而有圈毀實據的話\n\n09:41.132 --> 09:53.420\n有基督行你說二十五宗有基督行二分之一累進到這個累犯是三分之二那你就監獄報警法務部的時候那得以假釋來出獄可是以現在來看的話你又要達到滿二級這就像書長你剛才說到的這個整個方向你要往哪裡去走我反而會覺得啊這個都是值得我們修法的一個思考的一個方向你知道書長你要看我是怎樣\n\n10:09.886 --> 10:29.921\n我們這一套累進除也好假釋也好是行之很久了當然我們會把它做適當的修正但是我們不是完全把它匯除我們是在監獄學習法有一個專章把可以適用的一些條文把它匯整後納進去當然不會自愛難行\n\n10:33.183 --> 10:51.910\n我現在擔心的就是說其實這一套考核的一個制度啊你也很清楚了就變成混亂掉了你受刑人沒有辦法去了解到自己的一個分數的一個情況之下你整個變成大家在玩數字的一個遊戲啊那我在想啦就是說以現行的這一行政來看的話\n\n10:53.123 --> 11:11.191\n不應該像以現在來看的話就大部分都是比較類似於那種壓迫性的一個服從啦倒不是從教化這個部分去造一個著眼講這個社會大眾未必聽得下去啦有的人認為說你這個犯罪啦你本來就是受到這個報應這個我都贊成\n\n11:13.792 --> 11:31.091\n但是我都認為有好幾個階段好幾個階段除非啊監獄是完全要關注犯罪的地方不給這些受刑人敞開任何希望的地方那我就沒話講但是呢這個都值得我們這整個掌管最高這監獄行政的\n\n11:31.491 --> 11:45.662\n法務部或者我們家政署這個地方一併來做一個思考啦畢竟我們也我看學者專家還有法務部我們都有那麼多的一個學者專家去做一個研究往更好的一個方向去走啦有時候\n\n11:47.463 --> 12:11.014\n我們有委託兩家大學去研究我們得出一個很重要的結論我們會簡化考核制度因為我們經過幾次的一些修法確實太複雜了有的新任的教委師他還搞不太清楚所以我們會朝著簡化考核制度讓每個教委師更有效率更能夠保障受用人的權益\n\n12:11.494 --> 12:24.551\n所以我該講的還是要講啦不然我今天本集講的這一句話哪一天又有一個重大案件發生的時候把這一句話又連結的話那個都又是政治口水啦可是呢該改革的方向還是要改革好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.854,"end":24.927,"text":"謝謝主席 有請我們法務部正部長好 正部長我請人事長 人事長人事長 你先人事長 上個禮拜好多假日來得又急又快"},{"start":26.224,"end":50.747,"text":"大家都懷疑了 懷疑人家他唱歌 有人幫歌的當然也唱那針對這個新增國定假日這件事情講得更直接一點 就是說其實就剩下總統公告而已嘛對 總統公告之後 這個整個新的制度就要來上路了時間緊 那應該是挑戰也大 大家好奇就是說你們人總 你們這樣準備好嗎"},{"start":54.341,"end":81.514,"text":"這個要當總統三度過,我們也是要再簽行政委因為這裡面以今年三個假日來講一個是禮拜六、一個禮拜天、一個禮拜四嘛對啊,拜時的到底有要補假嗎?因為有的人是很不需要補假的,如果可以補假,不要他們補上班啦逮捕那些人的期待啦像這樣的話,因為雖然也是有一天禮拜五要上班這些細節我們還是要簽行政院啦"},{"start":82.174,"end":96.986,"text":"所以這個其實我看幾乎快定案了啦就有待總統去做一個公告但是你們該準備的還是要準備啦你像譬如說你這個這也不是明年的事情"},{"start":97.526,"end":113.189,"text":"今年你就要去實施 像你提到的三個節日的問題有一個禮拜六 有一個是禮拜天這個不只是公務機關啦 還包括民間的公司 學校 醫療 院所 又交通單位咧你們這就不怕排成 調人力 調人力 甚至有預算像譬如說 你剛提到那兩個 會不會補放的問題或是說你會把那個整個連續假期 你要是往前還是往後去挪"},{"start":128.64,"end":153.565,"text":"這個人總這邊其實應該是要未雨綢繆啦你自己創作好資料 讓民眾可以一清二楚簡單又明瞭 事先做一個規劃這個就是一個生活的一個秩序嘛我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣啦這我是覺得你要提早去做一個準備另外就是說 你看人總每一年大約都是在年中去公告隔年的辦公日曆啦"},{"start":154.666,"end":167.755,"text":"你每年的日曆是不是一併去做公告那你今年修正版的日曆你當時的功課是不是跟每年的你做回去的功課還是要分開去做一個功課這有一個好處啦你這個本來你的職長本來就是責無旁貸"},{"start":172.739,"end":177.664,"text":"他們好好地去盤點所有的配套統一規劃這樣有一個節奏清楚對外說明各單位也好 企業也好他們也要知道說要怎麼安排不然大家在那各自解讀 高雄又亂成一團來 任省我給委員報告啦 這裡目前今年度的規定是如果拜六"},{"start":196.804,"end":219.794,"text":"下課就是拜五補課你如果要拜那裡不就要拜就是拜陰嘛那就是目前的情形剛才委員講的那其實就是我們目前已經在作業在規劃階段因為我們要處理的一個是今年在總統公告之後三讀公告之後下半年就是三個階段我們要怎麼處理同時明年的"},{"start":220.234,"end":245.814,"text":"事實上明年的我們大概在3月份就已經草擬好了啦但是不然這次我們會重新整理一下阿目標齁 目標應該是看六月第一天 因為哎呀 委員報告 因為那剛才委員在講的 那是跟金融有關跟教育部有關 經濟部也有關 勞動部 行動部會都有關我們會先跟他們一起開會討論"},{"start":247.415,"end":267.211,"text":"找出一個共識節,最大公約數啦,這樣這叫做沐浴成熟,這通過後,假多了這麼多天以後放假的人一定會很開心,可是該規劃的要未雨綢繆好,好不好?OK,沒問題,好,謝謝董事長請回,請我們法務部政府部長還有我們矯正署署長來,部長、署長"},{"start":278.784,"end":298.151,"text":"本席在去年12月質詢過我們署長就關於整個累進廚藝的一個問題那這個會期其實我也排了很多的一個監所去做一個考察就是要了解現行累進廚藝的一個機制的一個問題所以今天我來繼續追蹤我一直都認為說這個"},{"start":301.189,"end":314.797,"text":"案件一發生尤其是刑事犯罪發生以後社會常常是軒然大波但是等到這個法案判決確定以後我想這是已經到一個段落那是另外一個階段的一個開始也就是說我一直都認為"},{"start":316.277,"end":339.663,"text":"你犯罪者你受到應有的應報 應有的處罰 法案的一個判決這個其實都很合理啊 可是呢 當他成為一個受刑人到監獄去以後啊監獄應該就不是一個人性的一個終點 反而他是一個救贖的一個起跑線那應該另外一個改端嘛所以呢 怎樣去構築更安全的一個社會安全網"},{"start":340.723,"end":342.926,"text":"不要說這些社會亂亂的了 選舉一個軒然大波你亂社會 國家給你硬爆 給你處罰 這合理啊可是呢 就是說 你這個監獄的門 你要關注這個罪犯關注這些犯罪"},{"start":358.303,"end":376.268,"text":"可是他進去你也要敞開一個希望,給他一個希望。我想請教署長,我剛才說的累進求餘的部分,我已經點解,你也說往廢除的方向去做一個前進,那你們現在的進度,現在是到哪一個階段,是不是也跟大家來做一個報告?"},{"start":377.279,"end":392.173,"text":"是 報告委員我們本署在明天會針對離境處議再召開一次的會議我們希望在明天召開之後就可以等於可以完成之後我們會盡快來報佈"},{"start":394.989,"end":419.511,"text":"是 我實在是都在法務部 你們做一些報告之後我們辦公室來討論 我覺得你們有道理 我們持續追蹤這個其實都是整個預證的一個改革 立法院對你們表達一個支持另外我要繼續講的就是說 這個以現在來看的話 雷神廚藝將壽星人按照不同的等級給予相應的一個權利你去看這個壽星人剛進去監獄的時候"},{"start":421.713,"end":447.66,"text":"有時候你會覺得那是家鄉跟壽星人之間那種連動其實壽星人這個時候反而是最需要家人的一個支持你初期在服刑的時候你跟家人聯繫深刻去反省的階段但是我們現在的一個累進處役剛好相反你去限縮接近跟通信的一個機會跟教化的初衷其實我覺得都要背道而馳署長你的看法"},{"start":450.819,"end":476.791,"text":"我是同意委員的意見因為累進廚藝是在民國35年那時候制定的那現在因為時空的變化所以剛剛委員提的那個親情的關懷是很重要的我們將來在修法裡面除了這個之外包括說不合理的現象市級可以看電視 三級反而"},{"start":478.871,"end":501.981,"text":"收音機這個是以前是留聲機留聲機又等於收音機是三級才可以持有那我們現在的社會電視很普遍所以它四級就可以持有反過來會問說四級可以持有電視那三級才能夠持有收音機這個好像怪怪的"},{"start":502.421,"end":524.667,"text":"所以類似這種我們都會一併來檢討另外跟委員報告我們這個連線處理的重點會縮短刑期把他拉高跟外遇間一般監獄跟外遇間差異不要那麼大另外就是要跟假釋來透過那這樣子我想對於我們整個管理運作會有正面的幫助"},{"start":525.43,"end":538.357,"text":"其實你有講到一個重點了啦,就是說,你說要這個跟假式來做一個透過,以你目前來看的話,你看那個教會師啊,這柏林你剛才聽到書長在說,就是變大就好像每一個教會師都變成一個,好像數學老師一樣,大家都在玩數字遊戲啊。"},{"start":545.574,"end":561.144,"text":"檢察官或者我們檢調人員司法機關去打擊犯罪這個都是符合社會的一個期待可是當他是一個受刑人進入到另外一個階段除非你要把他擁事把他做一個隔絕不然你不是要讓他再社會化嗎"},{"start":562.125,"end":565.546,"text":"你現在來看的話 你像刑刑累進處以裡面你根據的等級越高 你縮刑的日數本來就越高的一個規定你若要求達到二級才能提報去做一個假釋也就是說我們現在刑法77條的一個假釋你本來受徒刑的執行 而有圈毀實據的話"},{"start":581.132,"end":593.42,"text":"有基督行你說二十五宗 有基督行二分之一累進到這個累犯是三分之二那你就監獄報警法務部的時候 那得以假釋來出獄可是以現在來看的話 你又要達到滿二級這就像書長你剛才說到的這個整個方向你要往哪裡去走我反而會覺得啊 這個都是值得我們修法的一個思考的一個方向你知道書長你要看我是怎樣"},{"start":609.886,"end":629.921,"text":"我們這一套累進除也好假釋也好是行之很久了當然我們會把它做適當的修正但是我們不是完全把它匯除我們是在監獄學習法有一個專章把可以適用的一些條文把它匯整後納進去當然不會自愛難行"},{"start":633.183,"end":651.91,"text":"我現在擔心的就是說其實這一套考核的一個制度啊你也很清楚了就變成混亂掉了你受刑人沒有辦法去了解到自己的一個分數的一個情況之下你整個變成大家在玩數字的一個遊戲啊那我在想啦就是說以現行的這一行政來看的話"},{"start":653.123,"end":671.191,"text":"不應該像以現在來看的話 就大部分都是比較類似於那種壓迫性的一個服從啦 倒不是從教化這個部分去造一個著眼講這個社會大眾未必聽得下去啦 有的人認為說你這個犯罪啦你本來就是受到這個報應 這個我都贊成"},{"start":673.792,"end":691.091,"text":"但是我都認為有好幾個階段好幾個階段除非啊監獄是完全要關注犯罪的地方不給這些受刑人敞開任何希望的地方那我就沒話講但是呢這個都值得我們這整個掌管最高這監獄行政的"},{"start":691.491,"end":705.662,"text":"法務部或者我們家政署這個地方一併來做一個思考啦畢竟我們也我看學者專家還有法務部我們都有那麼多的一個學者專家去做一個研究往更好的一個方向去走啦有時候"},{"start":707.463,"end":731.014,"text":"我們有委託兩家大學去研究我們得出一個很重要的結論我們會簡化考核制度因為我們經過幾次的一些修法確實太複雜了有的新任的教委師他還搞不太清楚所以我們會朝著簡化考核制度讓每個教委師更有效率更能夠保障受用人的權益"},{"start":731.494,"end":744.551,"text":"所以我該講的還是要講啦不然我今天本集講的這一句話哪一天又有一個重大案件發生的時候把這一句話又連結的話那個都又是政治口水啦可是呢 該改革的方向還是要改革 好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":719,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時9分）謝謝主席，有請法務部鄭部長。"],["主席：好，鄭部長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：等一下，我請人事長。"],["主席：人事長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：人事長先。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早。"],["莊委員瑞雄：人事長。上個禮拜好多假日來得又急又快，大家都賺到了，賺到了的人很開心，能放假當然很開心，針對新增國定假日這件事情，講得更直接一點，其實就剩下總統公告而已嘛，總統公告之後，新的制度就要上路了，時間緊，挑戰應該也大，大家好奇你們人總這邊準備好了嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這要等總統公告後，我們還是要再簽行政院，因為這裡面，以今年3個假日來講，一個是禮拜六、一個禮拜天、一個禮拜四嘛？"],["莊委員瑞雄：對。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：星期四的到底要不要補假？因為有的人很不喜歡補假，最好可以放假，而不用補上班，這是大部分人的期待，像這樣的話，雖然有一天禮拜五要上班，這些細節我們還是要簽行政院。"],["莊委員瑞雄：其實我看這個幾乎快定案了，就有待總統去做公告，但是你們該準備的還是要準備，譬如說，這也不是明年的事情，是你今年就要實施，就像你提到3個節日的問題，有一個禮拜六、有一個是禮拜天，這個不只是公務機關啦，還包括民間的公司、學校、醫療院所，還有交通單位，你們如果不趕快排程、調人力，甚至還有預算，譬如說你剛提到那2個會不會補放的問題，或是你把整個連續假期是要往前還是往後去挪，人總這邊其實應該是要未雨綢繆，你們自己去處理好之後，讓民眾可以一清二楚，簡單又明瞭，事先做規劃，這就是生活的一個秩序，我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣，但我還是覺得你要提早去做準備。","另外，你們人總每一年大約都是在年中公告隔年的辦公日曆，你明年的日曆是不是要一併去做公告？今年修正版的日曆什麼時候會公告？是不是跟明年的一併公告，還是要分開公告？這有一個好處，這個本來就是你的職掌，你本來就是責無旁貸，你們好好去盤點所有的配套，統一規劃，這樣有一個節奏來清楚對外說明，各單位也好，企業也好，他們才知道要怎麼安排，不然大家在那邊各自解讀，到時候又亂成一團。來，人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告，照目前的規定，如果星期六休假就是星期五補假，如果是星期日放假就是星期一補假，這就是目前的情形。剛才委員說的其實就是我們目前已經在作業的，正在規劃階段，因為我們要處理的一個是在今年條例三讀、總統公布之後，下半年的三個節日要怎麼處理，同時，明年的部分，事實上我們大概在3月份就已經草擬好了，但是為了這次的修正，我們會再重新整理一下，目標應該是6月底以前。要再跟委員報告，因為剛才委員說的跟金融有關，跟教育部有關，跟經濟部有關，跟勞動部，跟很多部會都有關，我們會先跟他們一起開會討論，找出共識決，最大公約數啦。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這叫做木已成舟，這個通過之後，假多了這麼多天，放假的人一定會很開心，可是該規劃的要未雨綢繆，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：OK，沒問題。"],["莊委員瑞雄：謝謝。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好，謝謝委員。"],["莊委員瑞雄：人事長請回。請法務部鄭部長，還有矯正署署長。"],["主席：請部長、署長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長還有署長。本席在去年12月質詢過署長關於累進處遇的問題，這個會期其實我也排了很多的監所去做考察，就是要了解現行累進處遇機制的問題，所以今天我繼續追蹤。我一直都認為案件一發生，尤其是刑事犯罪發生以後，社會常常是軒然大波，但是我想等到法院判決確定以後，已經是告一個段落，也是另外一個階段的開始。也就是說，我一直都認為犯罪者受到應有的應報、應有的處罰，法院的判決，這個其實都很合理，可是當他成為受刑人到監獄去以後，監獄應該不是人性的終點，反而是救贖的起跑線，那已經是另外一個階段了，所以怎樣去構築更安全的社會安全網，不要說在社會亂一亂之後，掀起了一個軒然大波，你擾亂了社會，所以國家給你應報，給你處罰，這合理啊！可是你這個監獄的門，不但要關住罪犯，關住這些犯罪行為，但當他進去後你也要給他一個希望。所以我想請教署長，我剛剛說的累進處遇部分，我記得上次你們也有說要往廢除的方向前進，你們現在的進度是到哪一個階段？是不是也跟大家做個報告？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，針對累進處遇，本署明天會再召開一次會議，我們希望在明天召開之後就可以完成，之後我們會儘快報部。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們法務部做了一些報告，我們辦公室讀了，我覺得你們有道理，我們也會持續追蹤，這其實都是整個獄政的改革，立法院對你們表達支持。另外，我要繼續講的就是，以現在來看的話，累進處遇將受刑人按照不同的等級給予相應的權利，你去看受刑人剛進去監獄的時候，家屬跟受刑人之間的那種連動，其實受刑人這個時候反而是最需要家人的支持。初期在服刑的時候，是跟家人聯繫、深刻去反省的階段，但是我們現在的累進處遇剛好相反，你去限縮接見跟通信的機會，其實我覺得剛好跟教化的初衷背道而馳，署長的看法？"],["周署長輝煌：我同意委員的意見，因為累進處遇是在民國35年制定的，現在因為時空的變化……剛剛委員提的，親情的關懷是很重要的，我們將來在修法上，除了這個之外，包括一些不合理的現象，像四級可以看電視，三級反而才能持有收音機，這個在以前是留聲機，留聲機就等於收音機，是三級才可以持有，我們現在的社會電視很普遍，所以他四級就可以持有。但是反過來說，四級可以持有電視，三級才能夠持有收音機，這個好像怪怪的，所以類似這種我們都會一併來檢討。","另外，跟委員報告，我們這個累進處遇的重點，會縮短刑期，把它拉高，讓一般監獄跟外役監差異不要那麼大。另外就是要跟假釋脫鉤，這樣子我想對於我們整個管理運作會有正面的幫助。"],["莊委員瑞雄：其實你有講到一個重點了，你說這個要跟假釋脫鉤，以目前來看的話，你看教誨師，部長，你剛才有聽到署長在說，有時候好像每個教誨師都變成數學老師一樣，大家都在玩數字遊戲。檢察官或者檢調人員、司法機關去打擊犯罪，這個都是符合社會的期待，可是當他是一個受刑人，進入到另外一個階段，除非你要把他永世隔絕，不然你就是要讓他再社會化嘛，不是這樣嗎？以現在來看的話，像行刑累進處遇條例裡面，根據等級越高縮刑日數就越高的規定，你還要求達到二級才能提報假釋，也就是說，我們現在刑法第七十七條的假釋，本來是受徒刑的執行而有悛悔實據的話，無期徒刑逾二十五年，有期徒刑逾二分之一，累犯逾三分之二，由監獄報請法務部，得准許假釋出獄。可是以現在的規定來看的話，你又要達到二級，這就像署長剛剛說的，這整個方向要往哪裡走，我覺得都是值得我們修法的一個思考方向。不知道署長你的看法是怎麼樣？"],["周署長輝煌：我們這一套累進處遇也好，假釋也好，行之已久，當然我們會把它做適當的修正，但是我們不是完全把它廢除，我們在監獄行刑法有一個專章，把可以適用的一些條文彙整後納進去，讓它能夠不窒礙難行。"],["莊委員瑞雄：當然，我現在擔心的就是，其實這一套考核的制度亂掉了，你也很清楚，在受刑人沒有辦法了解到自己分數的情況之下，整個變成大家在玩數字遊戲。我在想以現行的監獄行政來看的話，大部分都是比較類似這種壓迫性的服從，倒不是從教化這個部分去著眼。講這個社會大眾未必聽得下去，有的人認為你犯罪了，本來就是要受到報應，這個我都贊成，但是我認為有好幾個階段，除非監獄是完全要關住犯罪的地方，不給這些受刑人敞開任何希望的地方，那我就沒話講，但是這個都值得掌管最高監獄行政的法務部，或者矯政署一併思考。畢竟我看學者、專家還有法務部，有那麼多的人去做研究，要往更好的一個方向去走，有時候……"],["周署長輝煌：跟委員報告，我們有委託兩家大學去研究，得出一個很重要的結論，我們會簡化考核制度，因為我們經過幾次的修法，確實太複雜了，有的新任教誨師還搞不太清楚，所以我們會朝著簡化考核制度去走，讓每個教誨師更有效率，更能夠保障收容人的權益。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以我該講的還是要講，不然今天本席講的這一席話，哪天又發生一個重大案件的時候，把這一席話又連結的話，那又都是政治口水了，可是該改革的方向還是要改革，好不好？"],["周署長輝煌：謝謝。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員。","接下來請吳思瑤委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-16","speakers":["莊瑞雄","王義川","黃國昌","吳宗憲","沈發惠","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","陳培瑜","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","翁曉玲","羅智強"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2025-05-12"],"gazette_id":"1144802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144802_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於監察院主管預算凍結項目共 1案；二、處理114年度中央政\n府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管預算凍結項目共7案；三、審查及處理114年度中央\n政府總預算關於考試院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案；四、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於法\n務部及所屬主管預算凍結項目共23案","agenda_id":"1144802_00002"}}}