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00:00:08,219\n好謝謝主席是不是請我們次長好陳次長好陳局長市長局長早最近在討論那個我們那個人口啊人口修那個水啦電啦瓦斯啦這個要下地嘛要規範嘛\n\n2\n00:00:33,201 --> 00:00:52,966\n這個案子已經行之有年了我想請問一下這個人口蓋全國大概有數量多少?這裡面有電、水、電、瓦斯什麼的?這個我要...對有一百多萬現在目前沒有這樣的一個數據一百多萬處我覺得這個修的化知識體大你強制規範說\n\n3\n00:01:03,171 --> 00:01:20,877\n人孔蓋全部要下地對不對有特殊的,比如救災什麼需求這一些可以請求來處理問題是一百多萬戶的這一些人孔蓋因為它會有氣爆的問題因為這裡面沒有辦法揮發\n\n4\n00:01:31,298 --> 00:01:53,828\n會有公共的危險,你們有沒有考慮這個問題?我想跟委員報告,就是說有關這個是不是所有要下地,剛才委員特別提到我們不會去規定所有的要下地啦有些在什麼樣的情況下不是你的規範已經就這樣子啦這是相關委員的一個提案啦這是委員相關的一個提案啦你們交通部公路總經都沒有意見嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:56,129 --> 00:02:20,843\n我想請陳局長說明一下因為這個法已經在交通委員會討論了十幾年了十幾年了之前你們是有意見的這一次反常的我看沒什麼意見各位報告因為這個管線機構就是大概做的一些人孔蓋大概就是說在道路上面其實它有時候如果說修的不平整其實有時候比較容易就是說可能會有一些事故\n\n6\n00:02:21,343 --> 00:02:46,355\n所以現在大概就是說希望就是說人孔蓋挖了以後整條就是回填的包括這個人孔蓋跟回填的部分希望能夠跟道路齊平讓這個尤其是騎機車的能夠更安全那平整那當然就是說如果說它能夠下地的話是整個道路上面再重鋪的話其實它平整度就沒有問題所以有一些地方政府大概就是會有一些我講的是你有沒有考慮到氣爆的問題\n\n7\n00:02:49,556 --> 00:03:18,019\n因為底下不流通空氣不流通有電源電力公司就有電源通過他大概就是說可以下地因為他大概我的了解因為目前並不是強制現在大概有一些地方政府就是說他會要求就是說如果你不常開啟或者是就是說有特殊需要的話其實是不要下地如果說你不常開啟的那其實把它下地之後整個道路其實它平整度也沒有就是說在回田的時候可能會有凹陷的問題\n\n8\n00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:42,978\n不是,你這個法的修,是原則下地,例外不下地,你應該顛倒過來啊你應該是原則不下地,例外的話下地,應該是這樣啊你一百多萬出,我跟你講,你這個維修一次的成本大概一萬塊錢\n\n9\n00:03:44,622 --> 00:04:01,561\n一萬塊錢問題你要挖洞路上水泥的鋪面還有平整挖的那個坑洞洞的更多你們有沒有考慮這個問題我覺得你們公路總局應該要表示意見不能不表示意見\n\n10\n00:04:03,953 --> 00:04:24,185\n我想跟委員報告一下,就是有關人手孔蓋要下地的這件事情當然牽涉到道路主管機關,或者是相關管線埋設的單位的意見這個原則上我們大概都會充分的尊重,尤其是地方主管機關你們有尊重嗎?是,充分尊重他們一切你們有徵詢過中華電力公司嗎?有徵詢過中華電力公司嗎?有徵詢過水業署嗎?沒有所以他們有提出來意見啊?\n\n11\n00:04:32,129 --> 00:04:55,975\n所以我們會在相關的裡頭請他們來表示相關的意見那最主要這個法案的提出是委員的提案所以原則上我們尊重這個委員會的一個討論我跟他討論過這個事情我也跟委員提案這個提案不是這一次在109年就進行而且在109年之前還更早也被提出來過他沒有很堅持\n\n12\n00:04:58,155 --> 00:05:22,627\n所以整個他沒有很堅持因為這個量體太大了他沒有很堅持而是你們公路總局這個案會診的時候我跟委員報告其實我們真的是尊重委員我們知道有這些各個面向的問題但是道路的平整度是要考慮的然後相關的維修的必要性也是要兼顧的我也贊成我也支持我也同意\n\n13\n00:05:24,728 --> 00:05:53,837\n所以這個條文要如何來修,我們原則上尊重委員會的一個條文他提案委員的主要是這樣是不是尊重地方政府你把這個權限授權地方政府要協調哪一些下地哪一些不下地應該不下地為原則那麼有一些要下地的有沒有你在整個工程審查的時候地方政府他要負起主要責任這才是正本清源之道\n\n14\n00:05:55,182 --> 00:06:04,807\n而不是說你們交通部公路總局你就尊重委員的意見,你把這個法定下去你定下去以後有一百多萬處委,我看你們怎麼處理\n\n15\n00:06:05,899 --> 00:06:31,833\n不可能嘛你只有逐年的去實施啦我跟委員報告一下或許是但是這個現在的修正的條文我稍微念一下它是公路主管機關有必要是得它還不是因是得要求下地但是如果管縣單位認為有特殊需求是可以免下地所以這也是符合剛才委員的意見是以地方主管機關來我是建議\n\n16\n00:06:34,009 --> 00:06:59,650\n這個法條修正的時候我們再聽聽大家的意見要地方政府也配合參與這個事情你起碼地方政府在審查的時候,你給他應該很大的權限因為道路主要還是地方政府在負責嘛你們怎麼可能管得那麼密密麻麻,枝枝節節的管那麼多勒是不是有的有需要,有的沒需要你這裡是講說下地的時候\n\n17\n00:07:02,961 --> 00:07:18,204\n他的特殊性就是救災啦或是幹什麼等等啦特殊原因可以不要下地但你這個本末顛倒啦,我是覺得你應該是你應該是原則上不下地啦\n\n18\n00:07:19,212 --> 00:07:42,178\n那麼下地的部分應該是特殊的需求應該把它顛倒過來沒有我跟據縣委員有討論過這個事情有關這個條文怎麼修如果到時候進入組條要討論的時候我想我們再跟委員來討教我們協商會等的時候注意一下這個問題好不好是是是是我們尊重整個委員會討論的結果好不好第四項跟第五項好不好是是是好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2435\t8219\t好 謝謝主席 是不是請我們次長好 陳次長好 陳局長市長 局長早最近在討論那個我們那個人口啊人口修那個水啦 電啦 瓦斯啦這個要下地嘛要規範嘛\n33201\t52966\t這個案子已經行之有年了我想請問一下這個人口蓋全國大概有數量多少?這裡面有電、水、電、瓦斯什麼的?這個我要...對有一百多萬現在目前沒有這樣的一個數據一百多萬處我覺得這個修的化知識體大你強制規範說\n63171\t80877\t人孔蓋全部要下地對不對有特殊的,比如救災什麼需求這一些可以請求來處理問題是一百多萬戶的這一些人孔蓋因為它會有氣爆的問題因為這裡面沒有辦法揮發\n91298\t113828\t會有公共的危險,你們有沒有考慮這個問題?我想跟委員報告,就是說有關這個是不是所有要下地,剛才委員特別提到我們不會去規定所有的要下地啦有些在什麼樣的情況下不是你的規範已經就這樣子啦這是相關委員的一個提案啦這是委員相關的一個提案啦你們交通部公路總經都沒有意見嗎?\n116129\t140843\t我想請陳局長說明一下因為這個法已經在交通委員會討論了十幾年了十幾年了之前你們是有意見的這一次反常的我看沒什麼意見各位報告因為這個管線機構就是大概做的一些人孔蓋大概就是說在道路上面其實它有時候如果說修的不平整其實有時候比較容易就是說可能會有一些事故\n141343\t166355\t所以現在大概就是說希望就是說人孔蓋挖了以後整條就是回填的包括這個人孔蓋跟回填的部分希望能夠跟道路齊平讓這個尤其是騎機車的能夠更安全那平整那當然就是說如果說它能夠下地的話是整個道路上面再重鋪的話其實它平整度就沒有問題所以有一些地方政府大概就是會有一些我講的是你有沒有考慮到氣爆的問題\n169556\t198019\t因為底下不流通空氣不流通有電源電力公司就有電源通過他大概就是說可以下地因為他大概我的了解因為目前並不是強制現在大概有一些地方政府就是說他會要求就是說如果你不常開啟或者是就是說有特殊需要的話其實是不要下地如果說你不常開啟的那其實把它下地之後整個道路其實它平整度也沒有就是說在回田的時候可能會有凹陷的問題\n198880\t222978\t不是,你這個法的修,是原則下地,例外不下地,你應該顛倒過來啊你應該是原則不下地,例外的話下地,應該是這樣啊你一百多萬出,我跟你講,你這個維修一次的成本大概一萬塊錢\n224622\t241561\t一萬塊錢問題你要挖洞路上水泥的鋪面還有平整挖的那個坑洞洞的更多你們有沒有考慮這個問題我覺得你們公路總局應該要表示意見不能不表示意見\n243953\t264185\t我想跟委員報告一下,就是有關人手孔蓋要下地的這件事情當然牽涉到道路主管機關,或者是相關管線埋設的單位的意見這個原則上我們大概都會充分的尊重,尤其是地方主管機關你們有尊重嗎?是,充分尊重他們一切你們有徵詢過中華電力公司嗎?有徵詢過中華電力公司嗎?有徵詢過水業署嗎?沒有所以他們有提出來意見啊?\n272129\t295975\t所以我們會在相關的裡頭請他們來表示相關的意見那最主要這個法案的提出是委員的提案所以原則上我們尊重這個委員會的一個討論我跟他討論過這個事情我也跟委員提案這個提案不是這一次在109年就進行而且在109年之前還更早也被提出來過他沒有很堅持\n298155\t322627\t所以整個 他沒有很堅持因為這個量體太大了他沒有很堅持而是你們公路總局這個案會診的時候我跟委員報告其實我們真的是尊重委員我們知道有這些各個面向的問題但是道路的平整度是要考慮的然後相關的維修的必要性也是要兼顧的我也贊成我也支持我也同意\n324728\t353837\t所以這個條文要如何來修,我們原則上尊重委員會的一個條文他提案委員的主要是這樣是不是尊重地方政府你把這個權限授權地方政府要協調哪一些下地哪一些不下地應該不下地為原則那麼有一些要下地的有沒有你在整個工程審查的時候地方政府他要負起主要責任這才是正本清源之道\n355182\t364807\t而不是說你們交通部公路總局你就尊重委員的意見,你把這個法定下去你定下去以後有一百多萬處委,我看你們怎麼處理\n365899\t391833\t不可能嘛你只有逐年的去實施啦我跟委員報告一下或許是但是這個現在的修正的條文我稍微念一下它是公路主管機關有必要是得它還不是因是得要求下地但是如果管縣單位認為有特殊需求是可以免下地所以這也是符合剛才委員的意見是以地方主管機關來我是建議\n394009\t419650\t這個法條修正的時候我們再聽聽大家的意見要地方政府也配合參與這個事情你起碼地方政府在審查的時候,你給他應該很大的權限因為道路主要還是地方政府在負責嘛你們怎麼可能管得那麼密密麻麻,枝枝節節的管那麼多勒是不是有的有需要,有的沒需要你這裡是講說下地的時候\n422961\t438204\t他的特殊性就是救災啦或是幹什麼等等啦特殊原因可以不要下地但你這個本末顛倒啦,我是覺得你應該是你應該是原則上不下地啦\n439212\t462178\t那麼下地的部分應該是特殊的需求應該把它顛倒過來沒有我跟據縣委員有討論過這個事情有關這個條文怎麼修如果到時候進入組條要討論的時候我想我們再跟委員來討教我們協商會等的時候注意一下這個問題好不好是是是是我們尊重整個委員會討論的結果好不好第四項跟第五項好不好是是是好謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 是不是請我們次長好 陳次長好 陳局長市長 局長早最近在討論那個我們那個人口啊人口修那個水啦 電啦 瓦斯啦這個要下地嘛要規範嘛\n這個案子已經行之有年了我想請問一下這個人口蓋全國大概有數量多少?這裡面有電、水、電、瓦斯什麼的?這個我要...對有一百多萬現在目前沒有這樣的一個數據一百多萬處我覺得這個修的化知識體大你強制規範說\n人孔蓋全部要下地對不對有特殊的,比如救災什麼需求這一些可以請求來處理問題是一百多萬戶的這一些人孔蓋因為它會有氣爆的問題因為這裡面沒有辦法揮發\n會有公共的危險,你們有沒有考慮這個問題?我想跟委員報告,就是說有關這個是不是所有要下地,剛才委員特別提到我們不會去規定所有的要下地啦有些在什麼樣的情況下不是你的規範已經就這樣子啦這是相關委員的一個提案啦這是委員相關的一個提案啦你們交通部公路總經都沒有意見嗎?\n我想請陳局長說明一下因為這個法已經在交通委員會討論了十幾年了十幾年了之前你們是有意見的這一次反常的我看沒什麼意見各位報告因為這個管線機構就是大概做的一些人孔蓋大概就是說在道路上面其實它有時候如果說修的不平整其實有時候比較容易就是說可能會有一些事故\n所以現在大概就是說希望就是說人孔蓋挖了以後整條就是回填的包括這個人孔蓋跟回填的部分希望能夠跟道路齊平讓這個尤其是騎機車的能夠更安全那平整那當然就是說如果說它能夠下地的話是整個道路上面再重鋪的話其實它平整度就沒有問題所以有一些地方政府大概就是會有一些我講的是你有沒有考慮到氣爆的問題\n因為底下不流通空氣不流通有電源電力公司就有電源通過他大概就是說可以下地因為他大概我的了解因為目前並不是強制現在大概有一些地方政府就是說他會要求就是說如果你不常開啟或者是就是說有特殊需要的話其實是不要下地如果說你不常開啟的那其實把它下地之後整個道路其實它平整度也沒有就是說在回田的時候可能會有凹陷的問題\n不是,你這個法的修,是原則下地,例外不下地,你應該顛倒過來啊你應該是原則不下地,例外的話下地,應該是這樣啊你一百多萬出,我跟你講,你這個維修一次的成本大概一萬塊錢\n一萬塊錢問題你要挖洞路上水泥的鋪面還有平整挖的那個坑洞洞的更多你們有沒有考慮這個問題我覺得你們公路總局應該要表示意見不能不表示意見\n我想跟委員報告一下,就是有關人手孔蓋要下地的這件事情當然牽涉到道路主管機關,或者是相關管線埋設的單位的意見這個原則上我們大概都會充分的尊重,尤其是地方主管機關你們有尊重嗎?是,充分尊重他們一切你們有徵詢過中華電力公司嗎?有徵詢過中華電力公司嗎?有徵詢過水業署嗎?沒有所以他們有提出來意見啊?\n所以我們會在相關的裡頭請他們來表示相關的意見那最主要這個法案的提出是委員的提案所以原則上我們尊重這個委員會的一個討論我跟他討論過這個事情我也跟委員提案這個提案不是這一次在109年就進行而且在109年之前還更早也被提出來過他沒有很堅持\n所以整個 他沒有很堅持因為這個量體太大了他沒有很堅持而是你們公路總局這個案會診的時候我跟委員報告其實我們真的是尊重委員我們知道有這些各個面向的問題但是道路的平整度是要考慮的然後相關的維修的必要性也是要兼顧的我也贊成我也支持我也同意\n所以這個條文要如何來修,我們原則上尊重委員會的一個條文他提案委員的主要是這樣是不是尊重地方政府你把這個權限授權地方政府要協調哪一些下地哪一些不下地應該不下地為原則那麼有一些要下地的有沒有你在整個工程審查的時候地方政府他要負起主要責任這才是正本清源之道\n而不是說你們交通部公路總局你就尊重委員的意見,你把這個法定下去你定下去以後有一百多萬處委,我看你們怎麼處理\n不可能嘛你只有逐年的去實施啦我跟委員報告一下或許是但是這個現在的修正的條文我稍微念一下它是公路主管機關有必要是得它還不是因是得要求下地但是如果管縣單位認為有特殊需求是可以免下地所以這也是符合剛才委員的意見是以地方主管機關來我是建議\n這個法條修正的時候我們再聽聽大家的意見要地方政府也配合參與這個事情你起碼地方政府在審查的時候,你給他應該很大的權限因為道路主要還是地方政府在負責嘛你們怎麼可能管得那麼密密麻麻,枝枝節節的管那麼多勒是不是有的有需要,有的沒需要你這裡是講說下地的時候\n他的特殊性就是救災啦或是幹什麼等等啦特殊原因可以不要下地但你這個本末顛倒啦,我是覺得你應該是你應該是原則上不下地啦\n那麼下地的部分應該是特殊的需求應該把它顛倒過來沒有我跟據縣委員有討論過這個事情有關這個條文怎麼修如果到時候進入組條要討論的時候我想我們再跟委員來討教我們協商會等的時候注意一下這個問題好不好是是是是我們尊重整個委員會討論的結果好不好第四項跟第五項好不好是是是好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.435 --> 00:08.219\n好謝謝主席是不是請我們次長好陳次長好陳局長市長局長早最近在討論那個我們那個人口啊人口修那個水啦電啦瓦斯啦這個要下地嘛要規範嘛\n\n00:33.201 --> 00:52.966\n這個案子已經行之有年了我想請問一下這個人口蓋全國大概有數量多少?這裡面有電、水、電、瓦斯什麼的?這個我要...對有一百多萬現在目前沒有這樣的一個數據一百多萬處我覺得這個修的化知識體大你強制規範說\n\n01:03.171 --> 01:20.877\n人孔蓋全部要下地對不對有特殊的,比如救災什麼需求這一些可以請求來處理問題是一百多萬戶的這一些人孔蓋因為它會有氣爆的問題因為這裡面沒有辦法揮發\n\n01:31.298 --> 01:53.828\n會有公共的危險,你們有沒有考慮這個問題?我想跟委員報告,就是說有關這個是不是所有要下地,剛才委員特別提到我們不會去規定所有的要下地啦有些在什麼樣的情況下不是你的規範已經就這樣子啦這是相關委員的一個提案啦這是委員相關的一個提案啦你們交通部公路總經都沒有意見嗎?\n\n01:56.129 --> 02:20.843\n我想請陳局長說明一下因為這個法已經在交通委員會討論了十幾年了十幾年了之前你們是有意見的這一次反常的我看沒什麼意見各位報告因為這個管線機構就是大概做的一些人孔蓋大概就是說在道路上面其實它有時候如果說修的不平整其實有時候比較容易就是說可能會有一些事故\n\n02:21.343 --> 02:46.355\n所以現在大概就是說希望就是說人孔蓋挖了以後整條就是回填的包括這個人孔蓋跟回填的部分希望能夠跟道路齊平讓這個尤其是騎機車的能夠更安全那平整那當然就是說如果說它能夠下地的話是整個道路上面再重鋪的話其實它平整度就沒有問題所以有一些地方政府大概就是會有一些我講的是你有沒有考慮到氣爆的問題\n\n02:49.556 --> 03:18.019\n因為底下不流通空氣不流通有電源電力公司就有電源通過他大概就是說可以下地因為他大概我的了解因為目前並不是強制現在大概有一些地方政府就是說他會要求就是說如果你不常開啟或者是就是說有特殊需要的話其實是不要下地如果說你不常開啟的那其實把它下地之後整個道路其實它平整度也沒有就是說在回田的時候可能會有凹陷的問題\n\n03:18.880 --> 03:42.978\n不是,你這個法的修,是原則下地,例外不下地,你應該顛倒過來啊你應該是原則不下地,例外的話下地,應該是這樣啊你一百多萬出,我跟你講,你這個維修一次的成本大概一萬塊錢\n\n03:44.622 --> 04:01.561\n一萬塊錢問題你要挖洞路上水泥的鋪面還有平整挖的那個坑洞洞的更多你們有沒有考慮這個問題我覺得你們公路總局應該要表示意見不能不表示意見\n\n04:03.953 --> 04:24.185\n我想跟委員報告一下,就是有關人手孔蓋要下地的這件事情當然牽涉到道路主管機關,或者是相關管線埋設的單位的意見這個原則上我們大概都會充分的尊重,尤其是地方主管機關你們有尊重嗎?是,充分尊重他們一切你們有徵詢過中華電力公司嗎?有徵詢過中華電力公司嗎?有徵詢過水業署嗎?沒有所以他們有提出來意見啊?\n\n04:32.129 --> 04:55.975\n所以我們會在相關的裡頭請他們來表示相關的意見那最主要這個法案的提出是委員的提案所以原則上我們尊重這個委員會的一個討論我跟他討論過這個事情我也跟委員提案這個提案不是這一次在109年就進行而且在109年之前還更早也被提出來過他沒有很堅持\n\n04:58.155 --> 05:22.627\n所以整個他沒有很堅持因為這個量體太大了他沒有很堅持而是你們公路總局這個案會診的時候我跟委員報告其實我們真的是尊重委員我們知道有這些各個面向的問題但是道路的平整度是要考慮的然後相關的維修的必要性也是要兼顧的我也贊成我也支持我也同意\n\n05:24.728 --> 05:53.837\n所以這個條文要如何來修,我們原則上尊重委員會的一個條文他提案委員的主要是這樣是不是尊重地方政府你把這個權限授權地方政府要協調哪一些下地哪一些不下地應該不下地為原則那麼有一些要下地的有沒有你在整個工程審查的時候地方政府他要負起主要責任這才是正本清源之道\n\n05:55.182 --> 06:04.807\n而不是說你們交通部公路總局你就尊重委員的意見,你把這個法定下去你定下去以後有一百多萬處委,我看你們怎麼處理\n\n06:05.899 --> 06:31.833\n不可能嘛你只有逐年的去實施啦我跟委員報告一下或許是但是這個現在的修正的條文我稍微念一下它是公路主管機關有必要是得它還不是因是得要求下地但是如果管縣單位認為有特殊需求是可以免下地所以這也是符合剛才委員的意見是以地方主管機關來我是建議\n\n06:34.009 --> 06:59.650\n這個法條修正的時候我們再聽聽大家的意見要地方政府也配合參與這個事情你起碼地方政府在審查的時候,你給他應該很大的權限因為道路主要還是地方政府在負責嘛你們怎麼可能管得那麼密密麻麻,枝枝節節的管那麼多勒是不是有的有需要,有的沒需要你這裡是講說下地的時候\n\n07:02.961 --> 07:18.204\n他的特殊性就是救災啦或是幹什麼等等啦特殊原因可以不要下地但你這個本末顛倒啦,我是覺得你應該是你應該是原則上不下地啦\n\n07:19.212 --> 07:42.178\n那麼下地的部分應該是特殊的需求應該把它顛倒過來沒有我跟據縣委員有討論過這個事情有關這個條文怎麼修如果到時候進入組條要討論的時候我想我們再跟委員來討教我們協商會等的時候注意一下這個問題好不好是是是是我們尊重整個委員會討論的結果好不好第四項跟第五項好不好是是是好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.435,"end":8.219,"text":"好 謝謝主席 是不是請我們次長好 陳次長好 陳局長市長 局長早最近在討論那個我們那個人口啊人口修那個水啦 電啦 瓦斯啦這個要下地嘛要規範嘛"},{"start":33.201,"end":52.966,"text":"這個案子已經行之有年了我想請問一下這個人口蓋全國大概有數量多少?這裡面有電、水、電、瓦斯什麼的?這個我要...對有一百多萬現在目前沒有這樣的一個數據一百多萬處我覺得這個修的化知識體大你強制規範說"},{"start":63.171,"end":80.877,"text":"人孔蓋全部要下地對不對有特殊的,比如救災什麼需求這一些可以請求來處理問題是一百多萬戶的這一些人孔蓋因為它會有氣爆的問題因為這裡面沒有辦法揮發"},{"start":91.298,"end":113.828,"text":"會有公共的危險,你們有沒有考慮這個問題?我想跟委員報告,就是說有關這個是不是所有要下地,剛才委員特別提到我們不會去規定所有的要下地啦有些在什麼樣的情況下不是你的規範已經就這樣子啦這是相關委員的一個提案啦這是委員相關的一個提案啦你們交通部公路總經都沒有意見嗎?"},{"start":116.129,"end":140.843,"text":"我想請陳局長說明一下因為這個法已經在交通委員會討論了十幾年了十幾年了之前你們是有意見的這一次反常的我看沒什麼意見各位報告因為這個管線機構就是大概做的一些人孔蓋大概就是說在道路上面其實它有時候如果說修的不平整其實有時候比較容易就是說可能會有一些事故"},{"start":141.343,"end":166.355,"text":"所以現在大概就是說希望就是說人孔蓋挖了以後整條就是回填的包括這個人孔蓋跟回填的部分希望能夠跟道路齊平讓這個尤其是騎機車的能夠更安全那平整那當然就是說如果說它能夠下地的話是整個道路上面再重鋪的話其實它平整度就沒有問題所以有一些地方政府大概就是會有一些我講的是你有沒有考慮到氣爆的問題"},{"start":169.556,"end":198.019,"text":"因為底下不流通空氣不流通有電源電力公司就有電源通過他大概就是說可以下地因為他大概我的了解因為目前並不是強制現在大概有一些地方政府就是說他會要求就是說如果你不常開啟或者是就是說有特殊需要的話其實是不要下地如果說你不常開啟的那其實把它下地之後整個道路其實它平整度也沒有就是說在回田的時候可能會有凹陷的問題"},{"start":198.88,"end":222.978,"text":"不是,你這個法的修,是原則下地,例外不下地,你應該顛倒過來啊你應該是原則不下地,例外的話下地,應該是這樣啊你一百多萬出,我跟你講,你這個維修一次的成本大概一萬塊錢"},{"start":224.622,"end":241.561,"text":"一萬塊錢問題你要挖洞路上水泥的鋪面還有平整挖的那個坑洞洞的更多你們有沒有考慮這個問題我覺得你們公路總局應該要表示意見不能不表示意見"},{"start":243.953,"end":264.185,"text":"我想跟委員報告一下,就是有關人手孔蓋要下地的這件事情當然牽涉到道路主管機關,或者是相關管線埋設的單位的意見這個原則上我們大概都會充分的尊重,尤其是地方主管機關你們有尊重嗎?是,充分尊重他們一切你們有徵詢過中華電力公司嗎?有徵詢過中華電力公司嗎?有徵詢過水業署嗎?沒有所以他們有提出來意見啊?"},{"start":272.129,"end":295.975,"text":"所以我們會在相關的裡頭請他們來表示相關的意見那最主要這個法案的提出是委員的提案所以原則上我們尊重這個委員會的一個討論我跟他討論過這個事情我也跟委員提案這個提案不是這一次在109年就進行而且在109年之前還更早也被提出來過他沒有很堅持"},{"start":298.155,"end":322.627,"text":"所以整個 他沒有很堅持因為這個量體太大了他沒有很堅持而是你們公路總局這個案會診的時候我跟委員報告其實我們真的是尊重委員我們知道有這些各個面向的問題但是道路的平整度是要考慮的然後相關的維修的必要性也是要兼顧的我也贊成我也支持我也同意"},{"start":324.728,"end":353.837,"text":"所以這個條文要如何來修,我們原則上尊重委員會的一個條文他提案委員的主要是這樣是不是尊重地方政府你把這個權限授權地方政府要協調哪一些下地哪一些不下地應該不下地為原則那麼有一些要下地的有沒有你在整個工程審查的時候地方政府他要負起主要責任這才是正本清源之道"},{"start":355.182,"end":364.807,"text":"而不是說你們交通部公路總局你就尊重委員的意見,你把這個法定下去你定下去以後有一百多萬處委,我看你們怎麼處理"},{"start":365.899,"end":391.833,"text":"不可能嘛你只有逐年的去實施啦我跟委員報告一下或許是但是這個現在的修正的條文我稍微念一下它是公路主管機關有必要是得它還不是因是得要求下地但是如果管縣單位認為有特殊需求是可以免下地所以這也是符合剛才委員的意見是以地方主管機關來我是建議"},{"start":394.009,"end":419.65,"text":"這個法條修正的時候我們再聽聽大家的意見要地方政府也配合參與這個事情你起碼地方政府在審查的時候,你給他應該很大的權限因為道路主要還是地方政府在負責嘛你們怎麼可能管得那麼密密麻麻,枝枝節節的管那麼多勒是不是有的有需要,有的沒需要你這裡是講說下地的時候"},{"start":422.961,"end":438.204,"text":"他的特殊性就是救災啦或是幹什麼等等啦特殊原因可以不要下地但你這個本末顛倒啦,我是覺得你應該是你應該是原則上不下地啦"},{"start":439.212,"end":462.178,"text":"那麼下地的部分應該是特殊的需求應該把它顛倒過來沒有我跟據縣委員有討論過這個事情有關這個條文怎麼修如果到時候進入組條要討論的時候我想我們再跟委員來討教我們協商會等的時候注意一下這個問題好不好是是是是我們尊重整個委員會討論的結果好不好第四項跟第五項好不好是是是好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":503,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（10時56分）好，謝謝主席，請次長還有公路總局局長。"],["主席：請陳次長、陳局長。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：次長、局長早。最近在討論要規範水、電、瓦斯管線人孔蓋下地的問題，這個案子已經行之有年，我想請問一下，全國人孔蓋的數量大概有多少？這裡面有電、水、瓦斯什麼等等。"],["陳次長彥伯：這個我要……"],["陳委員雪生：有一百多萬喔！"],["陳次長彥伯：目前沒有這樣的數據。"],["陳委員雪生：有一百多萬處，我覺得修這個是茲事體大，你們要強制規範人孔蓋全部下地，對不對？有特殊的，比如救災等需求的，可以請求處理，問題是一百多萬處的人孔蓋，因為這會有氣爆問題，裡面有些氣體可能沒有辦法揮發，會有公共危險，你們有沒有考慮這個問題？"],["陳次長彥伯：委員提到有關人孔蓋是不是全部都要下地的問題，其實我們不會規定所有都要下地，有些在什麼樣的情況下……"],["陳委員雪生：不是，你的規範已經就這樣子啦！"],["陳次長彥伯：這是委員相關的提案。"],["陳委員雪生：你們交通部公路總局都沒有意見嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：這個請陳局長說明。"],["陳委員雪生：因為這個法已經在交通委員會討論十幾年了，之前你們是有意見，但這一次很反常，我看是沒什麼意見。"],["陳局長文瑞：跟各位報告，管線機構做的一些人孔蓋在道路上面，有時候如果他們修得不平整，其實是比較容易發生一些事故，所以現在大概就是希望馬路挖了以後，回填時，包括人孔蓋的部分，希望能夠跟道路齊平，讓駕駛人，尤其是騎機車的人能夠更安全。當然，如果它能夠下地，整個道路再重鋪的話，平整度就沒有問題，所以有一些地方政府才會對一些管線機構有這樣的要求。"],["陳委員雪生：我講的問題是，你有沒有考慮到氣爆的問題？因為底下空氣不流通，又有電源，像電力公司的就有電源通過啊！"],["陳局長文瑞：這個意思是大概可以下地的，根據我的了解，目前並不是強制，現在有一些地方政府會要求如果人孔蓋不常開啟，或者有特殊需要，其實是不要下地，因為如果不常開啟，下地之後，整個道路在回填的時候，可能會有凹陷的問題，所以大概……"],["陳委員雪生：你這個法的修正是原則下地，例外不下地，你應該顛倒過來，應該是原則不下地，例外的話下地，應該是這樣啊！你有一百多萬處，我跟你講，這個維修一次成本大概一萬塊錢，問題是你要挖洞、路上水泥的鋪面，還有平整，挖了之後坑坑洞洞的更多，你們有沒有考慮這個問題？我覺得你們公路總局應該要表示意見，不能不表示意見。"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告，有關人（手）孔蓋要下地這件事情，當然牽涉到道路主管機關或者是相關管線埋設單位的意見，原則上我們大概都會充分的尊重，尤其是地方主管機關……"],["陳委員雪生：你們有尊重嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：是，充分尊重他們的意見。"],["陳委員雪生：你們有徵詢過台灣電力公司嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：所以剛才有特別提到是不是要下……"],["陳委員雪生：有徵詢過中華電信嗎？有徵詢過水業處嗎？沒有吧！因為他們有提出意見啊！"],["陳次長彥伯：所以我們會在相關的討論中請他們來表示相關的意見，最主要這個法案是委員提出的提案，所以原則上我們尊重委員會的討論。"],["陳委員雪生：沒有錯，俊憲委員的提案我跟他討論過這個事情……"],["陳次長彥伯：這個提案不是這一次才提出，在109年就出現，而且更早在109年之前也被提出來過。"],["陳委員雪生：我知道，俊憲委員沒有很堅持，因為這個量體太大了，他沒有很堅持，而是你們公路總局彙整這個案的時候……"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告，其實我們真的是尊重委員，我們知道有這些各個面向的問題，但是道路的平整度是要考慮的，相關維修的必要性也是要兼顧的，所以相關的條文……"],["陳委員雪生：我也贊成、我也支持、我也同意，我跟俊憲委員討論的同時……"],["陳次長彥伯：所以這個條文要如何修，我們原則上尊重委員會的意見。"],["陳委員雪生：提案委員主要的意思是這樣，是不是尊重地方政府？你把這個權限授權地方政府，讓它協調哪一些下地、哪一些不下地，應該以不下地為原則，有一些要下地的，在整個功能審查的時候，地方政府要負起主要責任，這才是正本清源之道，而不是你們交通部公路總局就說尊重委員的意見，把這個法定下去，你定下去以後有一百多萬處，我看你們怎麼處理，不可能嘛！你只有逐年實施。"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告，我稍微唸一下現在這個修正的條文，它是公路主管機關有必要時「得」要求下地，它不是「應」，但是如果管線單位認為有特殊需求可以免下地，所以這也符合剛才委員的意見，是由地方主管機關來……"],["陳委員雪生：我知道，次長、局長，我是建議，這個法條修正的時候，你們能不能參酌一下……"],["陳次長彥伯：我們再來聽聽大家的意見。"],["陳委員雪生：要地方政府也配合參與這個事情？起碼地方政府在審查的時候，你應該給它很大的權限，因為這個道路主要還是地方政府在負責，你們怎麼可能管得那麼密密麻麻、枝枝節節的，怎麼可能管那麼多呢！是不是？有的有需要，有的沒需要，這裡是說下地的時候，因為它的特殊性，如救災等等，有特殊原因可以不要下地，但你這個本末顛倒啦！我覺得應該是原則上不下地，下地的部分應該是特殊的需求，應該把它顛倒過來。我跟俊憲委員有討論過這個事情……"],["陳次長彥伯：有關這個條文怎麼修，如果到時候進入逐條要討論的時候，我們再跟委員討教，然後尊重委員會的意見。"],["陳委員雪生：你們協商會討論的時候注意一下這個問題好不好？"],["陳次長彥伯：是，我們尊重整個委員會討論的結果。"],["陳委員雪生：第四項跟第五項，好不好？"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["陳委員雪生：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳雪生委員的質詢。休息時間更正，魯明哲委員質詢完畢休息5分鐘，現在請魯明哲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-11","speakers":["林國成","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳素月","蔡其昌","何欣純","林俊憲","張啓楷","廖先翔","李昆澤","游顥","黃健豪","陳雪生","魯明哲","徐富癸","邱若華","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-12"],"gazette_id":"1144802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144802_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查(一)委員吳宗憲等17人、(二)委員賴士葆等28人、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等26人分別擬具「人\n工智慧基本法草案」及(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「人工智慧發展及管理條例草案」案；二、審查\n( 一) 委員林俊憲等23 人擬具「公路法第二十七條、第二十八條及第七十五條條文修正草案」、\n(二)委員陳冠廷等18人、(三)委員徐富癸等17人分別擬具「公路法第三十二條條文修正草案」、\n(四)委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「公路法第三十三條條文修正草案」、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團、(六)委\n員馬文君等19 人、( 七) 委員邱若華等17 人分別擬具「公路法第三十九條之一條文修正草案」、\n(八)委員何欣純等18人擬具「公路法第四十六條及第六十條之一條文修正草案」、(九)委員王義\n川等16人擬具「公路法第六十五條條文修正草案」及(十)委員林俊憲等21人擬具「公路法第七十\n二條條文修正草案」案；三、審查 ( 一 ) 委員林俊憲等 22 人擬具「停車場法第四條條文修正草\n案」、(二)委員廖先翔等17人擬具「停車場法第三十二條條文修正草案」及(三)台灣民眾黨黨團\n擬具「停車場法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。【本日會議僅針對開會事由二及三進行合併詢\n答】","agenda_id":"1144802_00001"}}}