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38.564, \"end\": 39.064, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 39.064, \"end\": 39.424, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 39.424, \"end\": 39.985, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 39.985, \"end\": 40.745, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 40.745, \"end\": 40.945, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 40.945, \"end\": 41.125, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 41.125, \"end\": 41.325, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 41.325, \"end\": 41.505, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 41.505, \"end\": 41.865, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"聞\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 41.865, \"end\": 42.065, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 42.065, \"end\": 42.245, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 42.245, \"end\": 42.425, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 42.425, \"end\": 43.045, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 43.045, \"end\": 43.165, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 43.165, \"end\": 43.745, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 43.745, \"end\": 44.225, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 44.225, \"end\": 45.126, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 45.126, \"end\": 45.286, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 45.286, \"end\": 45.506, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 45.506, \"end\": 45.686, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 45.686, \"end\": 46.046, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 46.046, \"end\": 46.326, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 46.326, \"end\": 46.866, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 46.866, \"end\": 47.386, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 47.386, \"end\": 47.486, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 47.486, \"end\": 47.946, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 47.946, \"end\": 48.086, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 48.086, \"end\": 48.426, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 48.426, \"end\": 48.546, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 48.546, \"end\": 48.666, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 48.666, \"end\": 48.866, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 48.866, \"end\": 49.106, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 49.106, \"end\": 49.207, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 49.207, \"end\": 49.287, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 49.287, \"end\": 49.307, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 49.307, \"end\": 49.407, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 49.407, \"end\": 49.647, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 49.647, \"end\": 49.987, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 49.987, \"end\": 50.087, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 50.087, \"end\": 50.147, \"score\": 0.382}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 50.147, \"end\": 50.407, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 50.407, \"end\": 50.627, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 50.627, \"end\": 50.747, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 50.747, \"end\": 50.827, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 50.827, \"end\": 50.847, \"score\": 0.112}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 50.847, \"end\": 50.867, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 51.849, \"end\": 60.555, \"text\": \"沒有自然難行所以我們現在多增加的五天的國定假日人事總署這裡應該是可以做適當的安排嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 51.849, \"end\": 52.329, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 52.329, \"end\": 52.89, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 52.89, \"end\": 53.39, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 53.39, \"end\": 53.57, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 53.57, \"end\": 53.77, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 53.77, \"end\": 53.87, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 53.87, \"end\": 53.95, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 53.95, \"end\": 54.331, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 54.331, \"end\": 54.771, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 54.771, \"end\": 54.991, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 54.991, \"end\": 55.191, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 55.191, \"end\": 55.431, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 55.431, \"end\": 55.892, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 55.892, \"end\": 56.112, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 56.112, \"end\": 56.252, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 56.252, \"end\": 56.472, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 56.472, \"end\": 56.652, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 56.652, \"end\": 56.872, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 56.872, \"end\": 57.513, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 57.513, \"end\": 57.653, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 57.653, \"end\": 57.953, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 57.953, \"end\": 58.633, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 58.633, \"end\": 58.854, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 58.854, \"end\": 59.054, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 59.054, \"end\": 59.234, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 59.234, \"end\": 59.874, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"適\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 59.874, \"end\": 60.334, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 60.334, \"end\": 60.535, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 60.535, \"end\": 60.555, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 61.792, \"end\": 90.118, \"text\": \"因為整個法令就是等總統三讀通過以後我們會按照整個法令的規定怎樣我們就事實上我們前幾天事實上已經有示牌了一些可能未來假日的一些他會落在哪一個位置然後相關的細節我們已經有做第一版的一個示牌好那所以聽您這樣說的話應該行政院不會針對這個案子提起復議案吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 61.792, \"end\": 62.552, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 62.552, \"end\": 62.992, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 62.992, \"end\": 63.172, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 63.172, \"end\": 63.392, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 63.392, \"end\": 63.532, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 63.532, \"end\": 64.213, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 64.213, \"end\": 65.093, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 65.093, \"end\": 66.173, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"讀\"}, {\"word\": 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0.862}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 87.357, \"end\": 87.877, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 87.877, \"end\": 88.038, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 88.038, \"end\": 88.158, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 88.158, \"end\": 88.318, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 88.318, \"end\": 89.038, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 89.038, \"end\": 89.198, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 89.198, \"end\": 89.318, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 89.318, \"end\": 89.478, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 89.478, \"end\": 89.898, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"復\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 89.898, \"end\": 90.098, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 763.279, \"end\": 763.819, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 763.819, \"end\": 764.0, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 764.0, \"end\": 764.1, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 764.1, \"end\": 764.14, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 764.14, \"end\": 764.24, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 764.24, \"end\": 764.38, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 764.38, \"end\": 764.54, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 764.54, \"end\": 765.08, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 765.08, \"end\": 765.261, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 765.261, \"end\": 765.961, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 765.961, \"end\": 766.362, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 766.362, \"end\": 766.482, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 766.482, \"end\": 766.922, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 810.38, \"end\": 810.56, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 810.56, \"end\": 810.68, \"score\": 0.671}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 810.68, \"end\": 811.261, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 811.261, \"end\": 811.561, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 811.561, \"end\": 811.701, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 811.701, \"end\": 812.282, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 812.282, \"end\": 812.302, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"筆\"}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}]}, {\"start\": 813.581, \"end\": 838.275, \"text\": \"那個更委員報告那個已經公告了那再來的話就是要有全聯會來處理好我希望這個辦法趕快提出來因為本席也要看已經施行了這辦法已經施行了不好意思那之後再提出來你們的辦法給我來看好謝謝部長那接下來我還要問一下矯正署最後矯正署今天有來嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 813.581, \"end\": 813.781, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 813.781, \"end\": 813.901, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 813.901, 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{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 850.459, \"end\": 857.865, \"text\": \"針對矯正署的部分本席在之前有看到我們上次的預算案第398項的預算案你們有提個專案報告在當時的預算是凍結\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"矯\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 850.459, \"end\": 850.639, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 850.639, \"end\": 850.779, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 850.779, \"end\": 850.939, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 850.939, \"end\": 851.139, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 851.139, \"end\": 852.0, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 852.0, \"end\": 852.22, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 852.22, \"end\": 852.46, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 852.46, \"end\": 853.361, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 853.361, \"end\": 853.581, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 853.581, \"end\": 853.822, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 853.822, \"end\": 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\"辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務3000萬這筆錢本來是編了9億我們凍結了3000萬然後希望你們能夠提出一個專案報告那麼特別是針對矯正署保外醫治的審查機制來做一個專案報告請問署長你有看到你們提出的專案報告內容嗎有你們寫了多少字你知道嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 865.652, \"end\": 866.052, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"矯\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 866.052, \"end\": 866.593, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"療\"}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 866.593, \"end\": 869.555, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"訓\"}, {\"word\": \"練\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"筆\"}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 869.555, \"end\": 869.816, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 869.816, \"end\": 870.136, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 870.136, \"end\": 871.117, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 871.117, 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\"start\": 997.151, \"end\": 997.271, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 997.271, \"end\": 997.411, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 997.411, \"end\": 997.531, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 997.531, \"end\": 997.551, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,299 --> 00:00:21,368\n您再請,我看看俄羅斯人就少受罪謝謝莊委員每次都給我鼓勵這是真心的今天因為是針對整個預算的詢答所以我就事論事就是針對預算的部分那首先我想先請人事長請蘇人事長\n\n2\n00:00:28,362 --> 00:00:50,867\n委員長市長好我想我首先先問您一個就是我們在上禮拜通過了今年日與假日實施條例那麼我有看到新聞上面您有說這次的這個通過的國定假日的修法會有一些治案難行的地方是不是可以請您說明一下為什麼會有治案難行\n\n3\n00:00:51,849 --> 00:01:00,555\n沒有自然難行所以我們現在多增加的五天的國定假日人事總署這裡應該是可以做適當的安排嗎\n\n4\n00:01:01,792 --> 00:01:30,118\n因為整個法令就是等總統三讀通過以後我們會按照整個法令的規定怎樣我們就事實上我們前幾天事實上已經有示牌了一些可能未來假日的一些他會落在哪一個位置然後相關的細節我們已經有做第一版的一個示牌好那所以聽您這樣說的話應該行政院不會針對這個案子提起復議案吧\n\n5\n00:01:31,975 --> 00:01:51,915\n很抱歉我沒有辦法幫行政院來打呼這個不過好我從您剛剛的回答理念大概可以知道現在民進黨政府應該是不會針對這個案提起復議如果提起復議的話不就是成為全民公敵了嗎好那接下來呢我有接下來就針對兩個預算案的部分在這次審查預算的\n\n6\n00:01:53,956 --> 00:02:21,469\n其實有兩個當然跟人總的案子很多啦那麼其中有兩個案子是本行比較關心的就是當時我們有這個凍結一個人總的有關於人事行政政策規劃執行及發展案的這1000萬的案子那時候就是有請人總可以盡速的提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例那請問一下你們現在這樣子的一個法案的進度如何\n\n7\n00:02:22,233 --> 00:02:40,414\n我跟委員報告因為在整個上一年三一夜的時候在大宴有提這樣的一個要求以後我們就開始進行一些邀請這些利害團體來開會然後也公聽會各方面都已經完成\n\n8\n00:02:40,794 --> 00:02:57,062\n那在上一年年底我們已經把整個草案送已經完成人權跟姓名的評估嘛然後也政委也開會那現在就等行政院排入整個院會議程然後會送大院整個程序已經進行到這裡了\n\n9\n00:02:58,047 --> 00:03:26,118\n只是進行到行政院所以根本還沒有說到立法院所以我們根本還沒有看到你們的草案草案我們有對外公告大概有八點因為我想很多委員很關心的是參與的那個諮詢會本來是基層的公教人員代表是沒有我們這次增加了四位進來這是當初的一個要求我們都已經列入到整個新的這個八\n\n10\n00:03:27,678 --> 00:03:44,643\n八點裡面都已經把他拉進來了因為這涉及到就是這一千萬到底能不能解凍那麼當時的要求是說你們要把草案送到立法院可是看起來你們現在都還在行政院會議裡面可能都還沒有排入行政院的會議\n\n11\n00:03:46,025 --> 00:04:09,245\n所以我想這個部分可能之後要請你們把這個草案送到立法院之後那麼我們才可以來做預算案的解凍否則的話不給你們壓力也不知道這個軍公教人員的待遇調整條例草案會什麼時候才會送到立法院\n\n12\n00:04:09,485 --> 00:04:21,846\n不過我這裡真的要拜託委員要支持因為就像學生在寫考卷一樣考卷我已經交到老師那裡老師還沒有批我想責任不能怪在學生嘛\n\n13\n00:04:24,308 --> 00:04:31,473\n因為老師有時候什麼時候改什麼時候你們是公正的第三方我們當時給你們要求是說是你們要盡速的要提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案我們已經提出了我們已經提出了又不是提出道立法院\n\n14\n00:04:47,565 --> 00:04:59,811\n因為裡面會有一些行政程序要走啊所以就是說你們要盡速的跟行政院院長反映到行政院會那裡要盡速排案有跟行政院那一邊報告過了然後也請求盡快能夠排入整個院會的議程因為排入行政院院會議程以後才會送到大院已經有拜託好幾次了因為行政院會有公正的考量今天我是在幫忙人事長非常謝謝委員的建議提議\n\n15\n00:05:17,039 --> 00:05:35,367\n一定要讓院長知道不要一天到晚都只是會去這個下鄉宣講搞大罷免這重要的案子院會該排就排而不是一直拖拖拉拉的從去年到現在已經有多久的時間了好除了這個案子之外還有另外一個就是有關於職安的防護辦法修正草案跟軍公教人員的公務人員有關的這個其實只是辦法啦當時也是說希望人事總署這邊能夠盡速提出你們什麼時候會提呢\n\n16\n00:05:45,803 --> 00:06:10,063\n這個保訓會裡面在公務人員保障法已經在5月6號送到大宴來了5月6號已經送到大宴來了所以你的意思講說這個職安的就公務人員的安全及衛生防護辦法的話這部分的話就跟人種沒有關係是嗎不是沒有關係有關係可是這個法規的主管機關在考試宴那考試宴已經在5月6號已經送到大宴來了\n\n17\n00:06:11,363 --> 00:06:39,803\n好那所以你的意思講說就你們的部分你們的階段已經完成了嗎安慰辦法要匯辦我們行政院然後因為匯嫌而已因為安慰辦法是在兩院匯嫌那他的上有的那個法例公務人員保障法已經5月6號送到大院來的好的了解了好OK那接下來呢我要請法務部對好是謝謝任市長\n\n18\n00:06:47,904 --> 00:06:50,506\n是部長在這邊有一個議題我想要請您再幫忙澄清事實上這次的預算凍結案裡面有一個是涉及到律師職前訓練的當時法務部這裡應該是編了300多萬後來我們是凍結了50萬\n\n19\n00:07:08,817 --> 00:07:19,244\n可是在今年3月初的時候全聯會自己就發了一個新聞稿講說我們這次有關於律師職權訓練的預算案因為\n\n20\n00:07:25,563 --> 00:07:51,149\n法務部刪除了該部的檢查行政業務的費用的10%所以呢整個的之前訓練的預算就下修為297萬然後看起來又把這個責任又怪罪到立法院請問一下我想請問部長你們現在是對於律師之前訓練的這個經費是不是真的是有下修\n\n21\n00:07:52,422 --> 00:08:03,667\n是有少給全綠會嗎跟委員報告像原來編的預算是331萬因為統三的關係所以統三10%所以變成是預算是297合定是2979000元那這部分是有有凍結50萬可是統三的部分的話你們自己中間可以去做一些調配嘛對不對你們為什麼要去刪這個\n\n22\n00:08:20,496 --> 00:08:23,058\n律師值錢委外訓練費用我們當時並沒有說要統刪並沒有刪這個部分如果要刪50萬的話我當時就直接我們就刪了我們只是凍結\n\n23\n00:08:31,496 --> 00:08:52,681\n跟委員報告因為這一次去年以上次上個年度來講的話因為預算不符因為實際核算的決算的是386他是預算數是331但是覺得是386萬餘顏那預算不準是有檢查室的業務費的流但是這一次是沒辦法沒辦法流用的\n\n24\n00:08:56,583 --> 00:09:14,322\n因為最主要是沒辦法留用那另外這次那個委辦的預算我們是編了六百八十七萬四千元律師職員訓練是佔了百分之四十八所以這部分的確是因為不足所以這次我們就減減了變成是辦五次的一個職權的一個訓練的一個梯次\n\n25\n00:09:14,602 --> 00:09:30,495\n部長我想要講的就是我們其實當時每筆預算都好好看包含項目細項的部分我們刪的是檢查事務費用包含宣傳費或是其他一些費用並沒有要去刪這個律師的委外訓練費用當時只是說凍結50萬可是因為你們的捅刪而且你們釋放出錯誤的訊息以至於讓外界認為說是我們立法院刪了這個律師執行訓練的費用這50萬\n\n26\n00:09:44,438 --> 00:10:13,043\n對我之前我就已經有說這防部次長的這種說法根本就是在造謠你們自己內部的調整跟我們立法院有什麼關係是你們認為說律師值錢訓練費用這部分是可以少所以你們自己把它又刪了然後讓人家本來是一年半六次在去年就已經宣告說一年半六次的這個踢訓後來變成是就是少一個踢次變成是五個踢次那中間又有一些踢次的時間的日期不是很恰當\n\n27\n00:10:13,783 --> 00:10:15,505\n經過本席請你們法務部來協調後來才調整出一個比較適當的梯子但是現在仍然是辦五個梯子\n\n28\n00:10:23,462 --> 00:10:28,466\n就是用線上跟那個實體的一個上對現在總之就是辦五個梯子嘛所以我們原來的意思是說你們331萬的預算我們凍結50萬你們提出專案報告之後就可以解凍還是應該要以辦六個梯子為主結果你們現在自己刪了刪了之後又已經公告現在只辦五個梯子所以本席的想法是說那現在我給你解凍這50萬是什麼意義\n\n29\n00:10:45,077 --> 00:11:04,317\n沒有意義啦你這50萬看起來你們又流去做什麼宣傳費沒有沒有跟委員報告因為我們是一個委辦會用是編了687萬4千元那我們現在是同3%所以其他的各項的委辦會全部都是3%所以那個律師職權的訓練費正好佔這一筆的委辦會的48%\n\n30\n00:11:09,083 --> 00:11:21,139\n48%所以這邊如果全部統三的話我們沒辦法再去從其他的委辦的項目再去去支應就是這樣去留意我跟你講就算是你刪了10%的部分\n\n31\n00:11:23,926 --> 00:11:47,646\n這個事實上你們現在第一次也都縮減了所以看起來也沒有解凍這50萬的必要因為你們就少辦了好我跟你講這個部分我們之後再來談那更重要的是說按照律師法的規定我之前就已經講了109年通過的律師法當時說之前訓練的這個辦理律師之前訓練是要由全國律師公會來辦理\n\n32\n00:11:49,528 --> 00:12:00,085\n所以相關的辦法也應該要提早要提出來那你們的公告呢之前一直沒有公告那我最近看到了行政院現在已經公告了嘛116年要實施\n\n33\n00:12:02,469 --> 00:12:14,011\n這已經報行政院核定已經報行政院核定嗎?已經看到了嗎?116年才公告實施核定了那個116年會1月1號會來所以也就是說從109年到115年的這麼多年的時間都是法務部在出這筆費用而不是由全國律師公會出這筆費用對不對?這個是一個委辦的一個費用\n\n34\n00:12:27,185 --> 00:12:54,348\n委辦的費用我從...對,沒有錯,就是由法務部來支應這個委辦費可是從律師法當時的修正裡面看不出來是由法務部要委辦而是由律師公會自己要去出這筆錢至於說辦理之前訓練的費用是不是要由律師自己負擔一些費用這個是當時你們在修法時候的情況嘛你當時修法為什麼要修法\n\n35\n00:12:55,149 --> 00:13:12,221\n就是因為想說之後這個基礎訓練一個月的基礎訓練上課的費用可能就是由全國律師公會來辦理那麼至於他要不要跟這些來受訓的學生然後來收一些上課的費用就是當時的想法他們可能會要來受律師訓練這些\n\n36\n00:13:16,604 --> 00:13:32,302\n這個才剛考上的律師學生們他們要自己要負擔一些費用結果呢你們一直遲遲的不去公告相關的這個辦法不去公告這個相關的作業規則那麼反而都是由國家一直來出這筆錢\n\n37\n00:13:33,581 --> 00:13:58,275\n那個更委員報告那個已經公告了那再來的話就是要有全聯會來處理好我希望這個辦法趕快提出來因為本席也要看已經施行了這辦法已經施行了不好意思那之後再提出來你們的辦法給我來看好謝謝部長那接下來我還要問一下矯正署最後矯正署今天有來嗎\n\n38\n00:14:10,459 --> 00:14:17,865\n針對矯正署的部分本席在之前有看到我們上次的預算案第398項的預算案你們有提個專案報告在當時的預算是凍結\n\n39\n00:14:25,652 --> 00:14:49,074\n辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務3000萬這筆錢本來是編了9億我們凍結了3000萬然後希望你們能夠提出一個專案報告那麼特別是針對矯正署保外醫治的審查機制來做一個專案報告請問署長你有看到你們提出的專案報告內容嗎有你們寫了多少字你知道嗎\n\n40\n00:14:57,750 --> 00:15:14,483\n可能這個委員看的那個是比較簡要的會有一個專案報告專案報告呢9頁我怎麼沒有看到我這裡只有只有兩頁而且呢不到400字你們是今天才提的嗎\n\n41\n00:15:17,625 --> 00:15:39,280\n是什麼時候寫是跟我這邊講的398的這個案子一樣嗎專案報告可是你們提供給我們的書面資料就是這兩頁啊而且這兩頁裡面你們只寫了不到400個字耶然後就要解凍3000萬然後內容非常的空白你們法規抄給我抄給我們這些委員們看因為就整個勞務部有很多案子我們這邊業績是蠻多的\n\n42\n00:15:48,103 --> 00:16:12,636\n別的解凍案其實也都是寫得很完整你們這個時代是太草率了啦對不對然後你們說截至到114年3月31號保外醫治的在外人數504人在外超過9年的有32人你們總是要列個表大概是什麼樣的情況竟然有保外就醫超過9年而且甚至更長的你們都沒有寫出來啊\n\n43\n00:16:16,963 --> 00:16:37,551\n你們這樣子的一個專案報告方式讓本席非常不能認同報告委員這個專案報告裡面有列表委員可以再詳細看一下好希望你待會把你們所謂的9頁的報告給我們所有委員看好沒問題可能放水這樣的一個解凍案是沒問題好以上謝謝委員好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2299\t21368\t您再請,我看看俄羅斯人就少受罪謝謝莊委員每次都給我鼓勵這是真心的今天因為是針對整個預算的詢答所以我就事論事就是針對預算的部分那首先我想先請人事長請蘇人事長\n28362\t50867\t委員長市長好我想我首先先問您一個就是我們在上禮拜通過了今年日與假日實施條例那麼我有看到新聞上面您有說這次的這個通過的國定假日的修法會有一些治案難行的地方是不是可以請您說明一下為什麼會有治案難行\n51849\t60555\t沒有自然難行所以我們現在多增加的五天的國定假日人事總署這裡應該是可以做適當的安排嗎\n61792\t90118\t因為整個法令就是等總統三讀通過以後我們會按照整個法令的規定怎樣我們就事實上我們前幾天事實上已經有示牌了一些可能未來假日的一些他會落在哪一個位置然後相關的細節我們已經有做第一版的一個示牌好那所以聽您這樣說的話應該行政院不會針對這個案子提起復議案吧\n91975\t111915\t很抱歉我沒有辦法幫行政院來打呼這個不過好我從您剛剛的回答理念大概可以知道現在民進黨政府應該是不會針對這個案提起復議如果提起復議的話不就是成為全民公敵了嗎好那接下來呢我有接下來就針對兩個預算案的部分在這次審查預算的\n113956\t141469\t其實有兩個當然跟人總的案子很多啦那麼其中有兩個案子是本行比較關心的就是當時我們有這個凍結一個人總的有關於人事行政政策規劃執行及發展案的這1000萬的案子那時候就是有請人總可以盡速的提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例那請問一下你們現在這樣子的一個法案的進度如何\n142233\t160414\t我跟委員報告因為在整個上一年三一夜的時候在大宴有提這樣的一個要求以後我們就開始進行一些邀請這些利害團體來開會然後也公聽會各方面都已經完成\n160794\t177062\t那在上一年年底我們已經把整個草案送已經完成人權跟姓名的評估嘛然後也 政委也開會那現在就等行政院排入整個院會議程然後會送大院整個程序已經進行到這裡了\n178047\t206118\t只是進行到行政院所以根本還沒有說到立法院所以我們根本還沒有看到你們的草案草案我們有對外公告大概有八點因為我想很多委員很關心的是參與的那個諮詢會本來是基層的公教人員代表是沒有我們這次增加了四位進來這是當初的一個要求我們都已經列入到整個新的這個八\n207678\t224643\t八點裡面都已經把他拉進來了因為這涉及到就是這一千萬到底能不能解凍那麼當時的要求是說你們要把草案送到立法院可是看起來你們現在都還在行政院會議裡面可能都還沒有排入行政院的會議\n226025\t249245\t所以我想這個部分可能之後要請你們把這個草案送到立法院之後那麼我們才可以來做預算案的解凍否則的話不給你們壓力也不知道這個軍公教人員的待遇調整條例草案會什麼時候才會送到立法院\n249485\t261846\t不過我這裡真的要拜託委員要支持因為就像學生在寫考卷一樣考卷我已經交到老師那裡老師還沒有批我想責任不能怪在學生嘛\n264308\t271473\t因為老師有時候什麼時候改什麼時候你們是公正的第三方我們當時給你們要求是說是你們要盡速的要提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案我們已經提出了我們已經提出了又不是提出道立法院\n287565\t299811\t因為裡面會有一些行政程序要走啊所以就是說你們要盡速的跟行政院院長反映到行政院會那裡要盡速排案有跟行政院那一邊報告過了然後也請求盡快能夠排入整個院會的議程因為排入行政院院會議程以後才會送到大院已經有拜託好幾次了因為行政院會有公正的考量今天我是在幫忙人事長非常謝謝委員的建議提議\n317039\t335367\t一定要讓院長知道不要一天到晚都只是會去這個下鄉宣講搞大罷免這重要的案子院會該排就排而不是一直拖拖拉拉的從去年到現在已經有多久的時間了好除了這個案子之外還有另外一個就是有關於職安的防護辦法修正草案跟軍公教人員的公務人員有關的這個其實只是辦法啦當時也是說希望人事總署這邊能夠盡速提出你們什麼時候會提呢\n345803\t370063\t這個保訓會裡面在公務人員保障法已經在5月6號送到大宴來了5月6號已經送到大宴來了所以你的意思講說這個職安的就公務人員的安全及衛生防護辦法的話這部分的話就跟人種沒有關係是嗎不是沒有關係有關係可是這個法規的主管機關在考試宴那考試宴已經在5月6號已經送到大宴來了\n371363\t399803\t好那所以你的意思講說就你們的部分你們的階段已經完成了嗎安慰辦法要匯辦我們行政院然後因為匯嫌而已因為安慰辦法是在兩院匯嫌那他的上有的那個法例公務人員保障法已經5月6號送到大院來的好的了解了好OK那接下來呢我要請法務部對好是謝謝任市長\n407904\t410506\t是 部長在這邊有一個議題我想要請您再幫忙澄清事實上這次的預算凍結案裡面有一個是涉及到律師職前訓練的當時法務部這裡應該是編了300多萬後來我們是凍結了50萬\n428817\t439244\t可是在今年3月初的時候全聯會自己就發了一個新聞稿講說我們這次有關於律師職權訓練的預算案因為\n445563\t471149\t法務部刪除了該部的檢查行政業務的費用的10%所以呢整個的之前訓練的預算就下修為297萬然後看起來又把這個責任又怪罪到立法院請問一下我想請問部長你們現在是對於律師之前訓練的這個經費是不是真的是有下修\n472422\t483667\t是有少給全綠會嗎跟委員報告像原來編的預算是331萬因為統三的關係所以統三10%所以變成是預算是297合定是2979000元那這部分是有有凍結50萬可是統三的部分的話你們自己中間可以去做一些調配嘛對不對你們為什麼要去刪這個\n500496\t503058\t律師值錢委外訓練費用我們當時並沒有說要統刪並沒有刪這個部分如果要刪50萬的話我當時就直接我們就刪了我們只是凍結\n511496\t532681\t跟委員報告因為這一次去年以上次上個年度來講的話因為預算不符因為實際核算的決算的是386他是預算數是331但是覺得是386萬餘顏那預算不準是有檢查室的業務費的流但是這一次是沒辦法沒辦法流用的\n536583\t554322\t因為最主要是沒辦法留用那另外這次那個委辦的預算我們是編了六百八十七萬四千元律師職員訓練是佔了百分之四十八所以這部分的確是因為不足所以這次我們就減減了變成是辦五次的一個職權的一個訓練的一個梯次\n554602\t570495\t部長我想要講的就是我們其實當時每筆預算都好好看包含項目細項的部分我們刪的是檢查事務費用包含宣傳費或是其他一些費用並沒有要去刪這個律師的委外訓練費用當時只是說凍結50萬可是因為你們的捅刪而且你們釋放出錯誤的訊息以至於讓外界認為說是我們立法院刪了這個律師執行訓練的費用這50萬\n584438\t613043\t對我之前我就已經有說這防部次長的這種說法根本就是在造謠你們自己內部的調整跟我們立法院有什麼關係是你們認為說律師值錢訓練費用這部分是可以少所以你們自己把它又刪了然後讓人家本來是一年半六次在去年就已經宣告說一年半六次的這個踢訓後來變成是就是少一個踢次變成是五個踢次那中間又有一些踢次的時間的日期不是很恰當\n613783\t615505\t經過本席請你們法務部來協調後來才調整出一個比較適當的梯子但是現在仍然是辦五個梯子\n623462\t628466\t就是用線上跟那個實體的一個上對現在總之就是辦五個梯子嘛所以我們原來的意思是說你們331萬的預算我們凍結50萬你們提出專案報告之後就可以解凍還是應該要以辦六個梯子為主結果你們現在自己刪了刪了之後又已經公告現在只辦五個梯子所以本席的想法是說那現在我給你解凍這50萬是什麼意義\n645077\t664317\t沒有意義啦 你這50萬看起來你們又流去做什麼宣傳費沒有沒有 跟委員報告因為我們是一個委辦會用是編了687萬4千元那我們現在是同3%所以其他的各項的委辦會全部都是3%所以那個律師職權的訓練費正好佔這一筆的委辦會的48%\n669083\t681139\t48%所以這邊如果全部統三的話我們沒辦法再去從其他的委辦的項目再去去支應就是這樣去留意我跟你講就算是你刪了10%的部分\n683926\t707646\t這個事實上你們現在第一次也都縮減了所以看起來也沒有解凍這50萬的必要因為你們就少辦了好我跟你講這個部分我們之後再來談那更重要的是說按照律師法的規定我之前就已經講了109年通過的律師法當時說之前訓練的這個辦理律師之前訓練是要由全國律師公會來辦理\n709528\t720085\t所以相關的辦法也應該要提早要提出來那你們的公告呢 之前一直沒有公告那我最近看到了 行政院現在已經公告了嘛116年要實施\n722469\t734011\t這已經報行政院核定已經報行政院核定嗎?已經看到了嗎?116年才公告實施核定了那個116年會1月1號會來所以也就是說從109年到115年的這麼多年的時間都是法務部在出這筆費用而不是由全國律師公會出這筆費用對不對?這個是一個委辦的一個費用\n747185\t774348\t委辦的費用我從...對,沒有錯,就是由法務部來支應這個委辦費可是從律師法當時的修正裡面看不出來是由法務部要委辦而是由律師公會自己要去出這筆錢至於說辦理之前訓練的費用是不是要由律師自己負擔一些費用這個是當時你們在修法時候的情況嘛你當時修法為什麼要修法\n775149\t792221\t就是因為想說之後這個基礎訓練一個月的基礎訓練上課的費用可能就是由全國律師公會來辦理那麼至於他要不要跟這些來受訓的學生然後來收一些上課的費用就是當時的想法他們可能會要來受律師訓練這些\n796604\t812302\t這個才剛考上的律師學生們他們要自己要負擔一些費用結果呢你們一直遲遲的不去公告相關的這個辦法不去公告這個相關的作業規則那麼反而都是由國家一直來出這筆錢\n813581\t838275\t那個更委員報告那個已經公告了那再來的話就是要有全聯會來處理好我希望這個辦法趕快提出來因為本席也要看已經施行了這辦法已經施行了不好意思那之後再提出來你們的辦法給我來看好謝謝部長那接下來我還要問一下矯正署最後矯正署今天有來嗎\n850459\t857865\t針對矯正署的部分本席在之前有看到我們上次的預算案第398項的預算案你們有提個專案報告在當時的預算是凍結\n865652\t889074\t辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務3000萬這筆錢本來是編了9億我們凍結了3000萬然後希望你們能夠提出一個專案報告那麼特別是針對矯正署保外醫治的審查機制來做一個專案報告請問署長你有看到你們提出的專案報告內容嗎有你們寫了多少字你知道嗎\n897750\t914483\t可能這個委員看的那個是比較簡要的會有一個專案報告專案報告呢9頁我怎麼沒有看到我這裡只有只有兩頁而且呢不到400字你們是今天才提的嗎\n917625\t939280\t是什麼時候寫 是跟我這邊講的398的這個案子一樣嗎專案報告可是你們提供給我們的書面資料就是這兩頁啊而且這兩頁裡面你們只寫了不到400個字耶然後就要解凍3000萬然後內容非常的空白你們法規抄給我 抄給我們這些委員們看因為就整個勞務部有很多案子我們這邊業績是蠻多的\n948103\t972636\t別的解凍案其實也都是寫得很完整你們這個時代是太草率了啦 對不對然後你們說截至到114年3月31號保外醫治的在外人數504人在外超過9年的有32人你們總是要列個表大概是什麼樣的情況竟然有保外就醫超過9年而且甚至更長的你們都沒有寫出來啊\n976963\t997551\t你們這樣子的一個專案報告方式讓本席非常不能認同報告委員 這個專案報告裡面有列表委員可以再詳細看一下好 希望你待會把你們所謂的9頁的報告給我們所有委員看好 沒問題可能放水這樣的一個解凍案是 沒問題好 以上謝謝委員好\n","txt":"您再請,我看看俄羅斯人就少受罪謝謝莊委員每次都給我鼓勵這是真心的今天因為是針對整個預算的詢答所以我就事論事就是針對預算的部分那首先我想先請人事長請蘇人事長\n委員長市長好我想我首先先問您一個就是我們在上禮拜通過了今年日與假日實施條例那麼我有看到新聞上面您有說這次的這個通過的國定假日的修法會有一些治案難行的地方是不是可以請您說明一下為什麼會有治案難行\n沒有自然難行所以我們現在多增加的五天的國定假日人事總署這裡應該是可以做適當的安排嗎\n因為整個法令就是等總統三讀通過以後我們會按照整個法令的規定怎樣我們就事實上我們前幾天事實上已經有示牌了一些可能未來假日的一些他會落在哪一個位置然後相關的細節我們已經有做第一版的一個示牌好那所以聽您這樣說的話應該行政院不會針對這個案子提起復議案吧\n很抱歉我沒有辦法幫行政院來打呼這個不過好我從您剛剛的回答理念大概可以知道現在民進黨政府應該是不會針對這個案提起復議如果提起復議的話不就是成為全民公敵了嗎好那接下來呢我有接下來就針對兩個預算案的部分在這次審查預算的\n其實有兩個當然跟人總的案子很多啦那麼其中有兩個案子是本行比較關心的就是當時我們有這個凍結一個人總的有關於人事行政政策規劃執行及發展案的這1000萬的案子那時候就是有請人總可以盡速的提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例那請問一下你們現在這樣子的一個法案的進度如何\n我跟委員報告因為在整個上一年三一夜的時候在大宴有提這樣的一個要求以後我們就開始進行一些邀請這些利害團體來開會然後也公聽會各方面都已經完成\n那在上一年年底我們已經把整個草案送已經完成人權跟姓名的評估嘛然後也 政委也開會那現在就等行政院排入整個院會議程然後會送大院整個程序已經進行到這裡了\n只是進行到行政院所以根本還沒有說到立法院所以我們根本還沒有看到你們的草案草案我們有對外公告大概有八點因為我想很多委員很關心的是參與的那個諮詢會本來是基層的公教人員代表是沒有我們這次增加了四位進來這是當初的一個要求我們都已經列入到整個新的這個八\n八點裡面都已經把他拉進來了因為這涉及到就是這一千萬到底能不能解凍那麼當時的要求是說你們要把草案送到立法院可是看起來你們現在都還在行政院會議裡面可能都還沒有排入行政院的會議\n所以我想這個部分可能之後要請你們把這個草案送到立法院之後那麼我們才可以來做預算案的解凍否則的話不給你們壓力也不知道這個軍公教人員的待遇調整條例草案會什麼時候才會送到立法院\n不過我這裡真的要拜託委員要支持因為就像學生在寫考卷一樣考卷我已經交到老師那裡老師還沒有批我想責任不能怪在學生嘛\n因為老師有時候什麼時候改什麼時候你們是公正的第三方我們當時給你們要求是說是你們要盡速的要提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案我們已經提出了我們已經提出了又不是提出道立法院\n因為裡面會有一些行政程序要走啊所以就是說你們要盡速的跟行政院院長反映到行政院會那裡要盡速排案有跟行政院那一邊報告過了然後也請求盡快能夠排入整個院會的議程因為排入行政院院會議程以後才會送到大院已經有拜託好幾次了因為行政院會有公正的考量今天我是在幫忙人事長非常謝謝委員的建議提議\n一定要讓院長知道不要一天到晚都只是會去這個下鄉宣講搞大罷免這重要的案子院會該排就排而不是一直拖拖拉拉的從去年到現在已經有多久的時間了好除了這個案子之外還有另外一個就是有關於職安的防護辦法修正草案跟軍公教人員的公務人員有關的這個其實只是辦法啦當時也是說希望人事總署這邊能夠盡速提出你們什麼時候會提呢\n這個保訓會裡面在公務人員保障法已經在5月6號送到大宴來了5月6號已經送到大宴來了所以你的意思講說這個職安的就公務人員的安全及衛生防護辦法的話這部分的話就跟人種沒有關係是嗎不是沒有關係有關係可是這個法規的主管機關在考試宴那考試宴已經在5月6號已經送到大宴來了\n好那所以你的意思講說就你們的部分你們的階段已經完成了嗎安慰辦法要匯辦我們行政院然後因為匯嫌而已因為安慰辦法是在兩院匯嫌那他的上有的那個法例公務人員保障法已經5月6號送到大院來的好的了解了好OK那接下來呢我要請法務部對好是謝謝任市長\n是 部長在這邊有一個議題我想要請您再幫忙澄清事實上這次的預算凍結案裡面有一個是涉及到律師職前訓練的當時法務部這裡應該是編了300多萬後來我們是凍結了50萬\n可是在今年3月初的時候全聯會自己就發了一個新聞稿講說我們這次有關於律師職權訓練的預算案因為\n法務部刪除了該部的檢查行政業務的費用的10%所以呢整個的之前訓練的預算就下修為297萬然後看起來又把這個責任又怪罪到立法院請問一下我想請問部長你們現在是對於律師之前訓練的這個經費是不是真的是有下修\n是有少給全綠會嗎跟委員報告像原來編的預算是331萬因為統三的關係所以統三10%所以變成是預算是297合定是2979000元那這部分是有有凍結50萬可是統三的部分的話你們自己中間可以去做一些調配嘛對不對你們為什麼要去刪這個\n律師值錢委外訓練費用我們當時並沒有說要統刪並沒有刪這個部分如果要刪50萬的話我當時就直接我們就刪了我們只是凍結\n跟委員報告因為這一次去年以上次上個年度來講的話因為預算不符因為實際核算的決算的是386他是預算數是331但是覺得是386萬餘顏那預算不準是有檢查室的業務費的流但是這一次是沒辦法沒辦法流用的\n因為最主要是沒辦法留用那另外這次那個委辦的預算我們是編了六百八十七萬四千元律師職員訓練是佔了百分之四十八所以這部分的確是因為不足所以這次我們就減減了變成是辦五次的一個職權的一個訓練的一個梯次\n部長我想要講的就是我們其實當時每筆預算都好好看包含項目細項的部分我們刪的是檢查事務費用包含宣傳費或是其他一些費用並沒有要去刪這個律師的委外訓練費用當時只是說凍結50萬可是因為你們的捅刪而且你們釋放出錯誤的訊息以至於讓外界認為說是我們立法院刪了這個律師執行訓練的費用這50萬\n對我之前我就已經有說這防部次長的這種說法根本就是在造謠你們自己內部的調整跟我們立法院有什麼關係是你們認為說律師值錢訓練費用這部分是可以少所以你們自己把它又刪了然後讓人家本來是一年半六次在去年就已經宣告說一年半六次的這個踢訓後來變成是就是少一個踢次變成是五個踢次那中間又有一些踢次的時間的日期不是很恰當\n經過本席請你們法務部來協調後來才調整出一個比較適當的梯子但是現在仍然是辦五個梯子\n就是用線上跟那個實體的一個上對現在總之就是辦五個梯子嘛所以我們原來的意思是說你們331萬的預算我們凍結50萬你們提出專案報告之後就可以解凍還是應該要以辦六個梯子為主結果你們現在自己刪了刪了之後又已經公告現在只辦五個梯子所以本席的想法是說那現在我給你解凍這50萬是什麼意義\n沒有意義啦 你這50萬看起來你們又流去做什麼宣傳費沒有沒有 跟委員報告因為我們是一個委辦會用是編了687萬4千元那我們現在是同3%所以其他的各項的委辦會全部都是3%所以那個律師職權的訓練費正好佔這一筆的委辦會的48%\n48%所以這邊如果全部統三的話我們沒辦法再去從其他的委辦的項目再去去支應就是這樣去留意我跟你講就算是你刪了10%的部分\n這個事實上你們現在第一次也都縮減了所以看起來也沒有解凍這50萬的必要因為你們就少辦了好我跟你講這個部分我們之後再來談那更重要的是說按照律師法的規定我之前就已經講了109年通過的律師法當時說之前訓練的這個辦理律師之前訓練是要由全國律師公會來辦理\n所以相關的辦法也應該要提早要提出來那你們的公告呢 之前一直沒有公告那我最近看到了 行政院現在已經公告了嘛116年要實施\n這已經報行政院核定已經報行政院核定嗎?已經看到了嗎?116年才公告實施核定了那個116年會1月1號會來所以也就是說從109年到115年的這麼多年的時間都是法務部在出這筆費用而不是由全國律師公會出這筆費用對不對?這個是一個委辦的一個費用\n委辦的費用我從...對,沒有錯,就是由法務部來支應這個委辦費可是從律師法當時的修正裡面看不出來是由法務部要委辦而是由律師公會自己要去出這筆錢至於說辦理之前訓練的費用是不是要由律師自己負擔一些費用這個是當時你們在修法時候的情況嘛你當時修法為什麼要修法\n就是因為想說之後這個基礎訓練一個月的基礎訓練上課的費用可能就是由全國律師公會來辦理那麼至於他要不要跟這些來受訓的學生然後來收一些上課的費用就是當時的想法他們可能會要來受律師訓練這些\n這個才剛考上的律師學生們他們要自己要負擔一些費用結果呢你們一直遲遲的不去公告相關的這個辦法不去公告這個相關的作業規則那麼反而都是由國家一直來出這筆錢\n那個更委員報告那個已經公告了那再來的話就是要有全聯會來處理好我希望這個辦法趕快提出來因為本席也要看已經施行了這辦法已經施行了不好意思那之後再提出來你們的辦法給我來看好謝謝部長那接下來我還要問一下矯正署最後矯正署今天有來嗎\n針對矯正署的部分本席在之前有看到我們上次的預算案第398項的預算案你們有提個專案報告在當時的預算是凍結\n辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務3000萬這筆錢本來是編了9億我們凍結了3000萬然後希望你們能夠提出一個專案報告那麼特別是針對矯正署保外醫治的審查機制來做一個專案報告請問署長你有看到你們提出的專案報告內容嗎有你們寫了多少字你知道嗎\n可能這個委員看的那個是比較簡要的會有一個專案報告專案報告呢9頁我怎麼沒有看到我這裡只有只有兩頁而且呢不到400字你們是今天才提的嗎\n是什麼時候寫 是跟我這邊講的398的這個案子一樣嗎專案報告可是你們提供給我們的書面資料就是這兩頁啊而且這兩頁裡面你們只寫了不到400個字耶然後就要解凍3000萬然後內容非常的空白你們法規抄給我 抄給我們這些委員們看因為就整個勞務部有很多案子我們這邊業績是蠻多的\n別的解凍案其實也都是寫得很完整你們這個時代是太草率了啦 對不對然後你們說截至到114年3月31號保外醫治的在外人數504人在外超過9年的有32人你們總是要列個表大概是什麼樣的情況竟然有保外就醫超過9年而且甚至更長的你們都沒有寫出來啊\n你們這樣子的一個專案報告方式讓本席非常不能認同報告委員 這個專案報告裡面有列表委員可以再詳細看一下好 希望你待會把你們所謂的9頁的報告給我們所有委員看好 沒問題可能放水這樣的一個解凍案是 沒問題好 以上謝謝委員好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.299 --> 00:21.368\n您再請,我看看俄羅斯人就少受罪謝謝莊委員每次都給我鼓勵這是真心的今天因為是針對整個預算的詢答所以我就事論事就是針對預算的部分那首先我想先請人事長請蘇人事長\n\n00:28.362 --> 00:50.867\n委員長市長好我想我首先先問您一個就是我們在上禮拜通過了今年日與假日實施條例那麼我有看到新聞上面您有說這次的這個通過的國定假日的修法會有一些治案難行的地方是不是可以請您說明一下為什麼會有治案難行\n\n00:51.849 --> 01:00.555\n沒有自然難行所以我們現在多增加的五天的國定假日人事總署這裡應該是可以做適當的安排嗎\n\n01:01.792 --> 01:30.118\n因為整個法令就是等總統三讀通過以後我們會按照整個法令的規定怎樣我們就事實上我們前幾天事實上已經有示牌了一些可能未來假日的一些他會落在哪一個位置然後相關的細節我們已經有做第一版的一個示牌好那所以聽您這樣說的話應該行政院不會針對這個案子提起復議案吧\n\n01:31.975 --> 01:51.915\n很抱歉我沒有辦法幫行政院來打呼這個不過好我從您剛剛的回答理念大概可以知道現在民進黨政府應該是不會針對這個案提起復議如果提起復議的話不就是成為全民公敵了嗎好那接下來呢我有接下來就針對兩個預算案的部分在這次審查預算的\n\n01:53.956 --> 02:21.469\n其實有兩個當然跟人總的案子很多啦那麼其中有兩個案子是本行比較關心的就是當時我們有這個凍結一個人總的有關於人事行政政策規劃執行及發展案的這1000萬的案子那時候就是有請人總可以盡速的提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例那請問一下你們現在這樣子的一個法案的進度如何\n\n02:22.233 --> 02:40.414\n我跟委員報告因為在整個上一年三一夜的時候在大宴有提這樣的一個要求以後我們就開始進行一些邀請這些利害團體來開會然後也公聽會各方面都已經完成\n\n02:40.794 --> 02:57.062\n那在上一年年底我們已經把整個草案送已經完成人權跟姓名的評估嘛然後也政委也開會那現在就等行政院排入整個院會議程然後會送大院整個程序已經進行到這裡了\n\n02:58.047 --> 03:26.118\n只是進行到行政院所以根本還沒有說到立法院所以我們根本還沒有看到你們的草案草案我們有對外公告大概有八點因為我想很多委員很關心的是參與的那個諮詢會本來是基層的公教人員代表是沒有我們這次增加了四位進來這是當初的一個要求我們都已經列入到整個新的這個八\n\n03:27.678 --> 03:44.643\n八點裡面都已經把他拉進來了因為這涉及到就是這一千萬到底能不能解凍那麼當時的要求是說你們要把草案送到立法院可是看起來你們現在都還在行政院會議裡面可能都還沒有排入行政院的會議\n\n03:46.025 --> 04:09.245\n所以我想這個部分可能之後要請你們把這個草案送到立法院之後那麼我們才可以來做預算案的解凍否則的話不給你們壓力也不知道這個軍公教人員的待遇調整條例草案會什麼時候才會送到立法院\n\n04:09.485 --> 04:21.846\n不過我這裡真的要拜託委員要支持因為就像學生在寫考卷一樣考卷我已經交到老師那裡老師還沒有批我想責任不能怪在學生嘛\n\n04:24.308 --> 04:31.473\n因為老師有時候什麼時候改什麼時候你們是公正的第三方我們當時給你們要求是說是你們要盡速的要提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案我們已經提出了我們已經提出了又不是提出道立法院\n\n04:47.565 --> 04:59.811\n因為裡面會有一些行政程序要走啊所以就是說你們要盡速的跟行政院院長反映到行政院會那裡要盡速排案有跟行政院那一邊報告過了然後也請求盡快能夠排入整個院會的議程因為排入行政院院會議程以後才會送到大院已經有拜託好幾次了因為行政院會有公正的考量今天我是在幫忙人事長非常謝謝委員的建議提議\n\n05:17.039 --> 05:35.367\n一定要讓院長知道不要一天到晚都只是會去這個下鄉宣講搞大罷免這重要的案子院會該排就排而不是一直拖拖拉拉的從去年到現在已經有多久的時間了好除了這個案子之外還有另外一個就是有關於職安的防護辦法修正草案跟軍公教人員的公務人員有關的這個其實只是辦法啦當時也是說希望人事總署這邊能夠盡速提出你們什麼時候會提呢\n\n05:45.803 --> 06:10.063\n這個保訓會裡面在公務人員保障法已經在5月6號送到大宴來了5月6號已經送到大宴來了所以你的意思講說這個職安的就公務人員的安全及衛生防護辦法的話這部分的話就跟人種沒有關係是嗎不是沒有關係有關係可是這個法規的主管機關在考試宴那考試宴已經在5月6號已經送到大宴來了\n\n06:11.363 --> 06:39.803\n好那所以你的意思講說就你們的部分你們的階段已經完成了嗎安慰辦法要匯辦我們行政院然後因為匯嫌而已因為安慰辦法是在兩院匯嫌那他的上有的那個法例公務人員保障法已經5月6號送到大院來的好的了解了好OK那接下來呢我要請法務部對好是謝謝任市長\n\n06:47.904 --> 06:50.506\n是部長在這邊有一個議題我想要請您再幫忙澄清事實上這次的預算凍結案裡面有一個是涉及到律師職前訓練的當時法務部這裡應該是編了300多萬後來我們是凍結了50萬\n\n07:08.817 --> 07:19.244\n可是在今年3月初的時候全聯會自己就發了一個新聞稿講說我們這次有關於律師職權訓練的預算案因為\n\n07:25.563 --> 07:51.149\n法務部刪除了該部的檢查行政業務的費用的10%所以呢整個的之前訓練的預算就下修為297萬然後看起來又把這個責任又怪罪到立法院請問一下我想請問部長你們現在是對於律師之前訓練的這個經費是不是真的是有下修\n\n07:52.422 --> 08:03.667\n是有少給全綠會嗎跟委員報告像原來編的預算是331萬因為統三的關係所以統三10%所以變成是預算是297合定是2979000元那這部分是有有凍結50萬可是統三的部分的話你們自己中間可以去做一些調配嘛對不對你們為什麼要去刪這個\n\n08:20.496 --> 08:23.058\n律師值錢委外訓練費用我們當時並沒有說要統刪並沒有刪這個部分如果要刪50萬的話我當時就直接我們就刪了我們只是凍結\n\n08:31.496 --> 08:52.681\n跟委員報告因為這一次去年以上次上個年度來講的話因為預算不符因為實際核算的決算的是386他是預算數是331但是覺得是386萬餘顏那預算不準是有檢查室的業務費的流但是這一次是沒辦法沒辦法流用的\n\n08:56.583 --> 09:14.322\n因為最主要是沒辦法留用那另外這次那個委辦的預算我們是編了六百八十七萬四千元律師職員訓練是佔了百分之四十八所以這部分的確是因為不足所以這次我們就減減了變成是辦五次的一個職權的一個訓練的一個梯次\n\n09:14.602 --> 09:30.495\n部長我想要講的就是我們其實當時每筆預算都好好看包含項目細項的部分我們刪的是檢查事務費用包含宣傳費或是其他一些費用並沒有要去刪這個律師的委外訓練費用當時只是說凍結50萬可是因為你們的捅刪而且你們釋放出錯誤的訊息以至於讓外界認為說是我們立法院刪了這個律師執行訓練的費用這50萬\n\n09:44.438 --> 10:13.043\n對我之前我就已經有說這防部次長的這種說法根本就是在造謠你們自己內部的調整跟我們立法院有什麼關係是你們認為說律師值錢訓練費用這部分是可以少所以你們自己把它又刪了然後讓人家本來是一年半六次在去年就已經宣告說一年半六次的這個踢訓後來變成是就是少一個踢次變成是五個踢次那中間又有一些踢次的時間的日期不是很恰當\n\n10:13.783 --> 10:15.505\n經過本席請你們法務部來協調後來才調整出一個比較適當的梯子但是現在仍然是辦五個梯子\n\n10:23.462 --> 10:28.466\n就是用線上跟那個實體的一個上對現在總之就是辦五個梯子嘛所以我們原來的意思是說你們331萬的預算我們凍結50萬你們提出專案報告之後就可以解凍還是應該要以辦六個梯子為主結果你們現在自己刪了刪了之後又已經公告現在只辦五個梯子所以本席的想法是說那現在我給你解凍這50萬是什麼意義\n\n10:45.077 --> 11:04.317\n沒有意義啦你這50萬看起來你們又流去做什麼宣傳費沒有沒有跟委員報告因為我們是一個委辦會用是編了687萬4千元那我們現在是同3%所以其他的各項的委辦會全部都是3%所以那個律師職權的訓練費正好佔這一筆的委辦會的48%\n\n11:09.083 --> 11:21.139\n48%所以這邊如果全部統三的話我們沒辦法再去從其他的委辦的項目再去去支應就是這樣去留意我跟你講就算是你刪了10%的部分\n\n11:23.926 --> 11:47.646\n這個事實上你們現在第一次也都縮減了所以看起來也沒有解凍這50萬的必要因為你們就少辦了好我跟你講這個部分我們之後再來談那更重要的是說按照律師法的規定我之前就已經講了109年通過的律師法當時說之前訓練的這個辦理律師之前訓練是要由全國律師公會來辦理\n\n11:49.528 --> 12:00.085\n所以相關的辦法也應該要提早要提出來那你們的公告呢之前一直沒有公告那我最近看到了行政院現在已經公告了嘛116年要實施\n\n12:02.469 --> 12:14.011\n這已經報行政院核定已經報行政院核定嗎?已經看到了嗎?116年才公告實施核定了那個116年會1月1號會來所以也就是說從109年到115年的這麼多年的時間都是法務部在出這筆費用而不是由全國律師公會出這筆費用對不對?這個是一個委辦的一個費用\n\n12:27.185 --> 12:54.348\n委辦的費用我從...對,沒有錯,就是由法務部來支應這個委辦費可是從律師法當時的修正裡面看不出來是由法務部要委辦而是由律師公會自己要去出這筆錢至於說辦理之前訓練的費用是不是要由律師自己負擔一些費用這個是當時你們在修法時候的情況嘛你當時修法為什麼要修法\n\n12:55.149 --> 13:12.221\n就是因為想說之後這個基礎訓練一個月的基礎訓練上課的費用可能就是由全國律師公會來辦理那麼至於他要不要跟這些來受訓的學生然後來收一些上課的費用就是當時的想法他們可能會要來受律師訓練這些\n\n13:16.604 --> 13:32.302\n這個才剛考上的律師學生們他們要自己要負擔一些費用結果呢你們一直遲遲的不去公告相關的這個辦法不去公告這個相關的作業規則那麼反而都是由國家一直來出這筆錢\n\n13:33.581 --> 13:58.275\n那個更委員報告那個已經公告了那再來的話就是要有全聯會來處理好我希望這個辦法趕快提出來因為本席也要看已經施行了這辦法已經施行了不好意思那之後再提出來你們的辦法給我來看好謝謝部長那接下來我還要問一下矯正署最後矯正署今天有來嗎\n\n14:10.459 --> 14:17.865\n針對矯正署的部分本席在之前有看到我們上次的預算案第398項的預算案你們有提個專案報告在當時的預算是凍結\n\n14:25.652 --> 14:49.074\n辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務3000萬這筆錢本來是編了9億我們凍結了3000萬然後希望你們能夠提出一個專案報告那麼特別是針對矯正署保外醫治的審查機制來做一個專案報告請問署長你有看到你們提出的專案報告內容嗎有你們寫了多少字你知道嗎\n\n14:57.750 --> 15:14.483\n可能這個委員看的那個是比較簡要的會有一個專案報告專案報告呢9頁我怎麼沒有看到我這裡只有只有兩頁而且呢不到400字你們是今天才提的嗎\n\n15:17.625 --> 15:39.280\n是什麼時候寫是跟我這邊講的398的這個案子一樣嗎專案報告可是你們提供給我們的書面資料就是這兩頁啊而且這兩頁裡面你們只寫了不到400個字耶然後就要解凍3000萬然後內容非常的空白你們法規抄給我抄給我們這些委員們看因為就整個勞務部有很多案子我們這邊業績是蠻多的\n\n15:48.103 --> 16:12.636\n別的解凍案其實也都是寫得很完整你們這個時代是太草率了啦對不對然後你們說截至到114年3月31號保外醫治的在外人數504人在外超過9年的有32人你們總是要列個表大概是什麼樣的情況竟然有保外就醫超過9年而且甚至更長的你們都沒有寫出來啊\n\n16:16.963 --> 16:37.551\n你們這樣子的一個專案報告方式讓本席非常不能認同報告委員這個專案報告裡面有列表委員可以再詳細看一下好希望你待會把你們所謂的9頁的報告給我們所有委員看好沒問題可能放水這樣的一個解凍案是沒問題好以上謝謝委員好\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.299,"end":21.368,"text":"您再請,我看看俄羅斯人就少受罪謝謝莊委員每次都給我鼓勵這是真心的今天因為是針對整個預算的詢答所以我就事論事就是針對預算的部分那首先我想先請人事長請蘇人事長"},{"start":28.362,"end":50.867,"text":"委員長市長好我想我首先先問您一個就是我們在上禮拜通過了今年日與假日實施條例那麼我有看到新聞上面您有說這次的這個通過的國定假日的修法會有一些治案難行的地方是不是可以請您說明一下為什麼會有治案難行"},{"start":51.849,"end":60.555,"text":"沒有自然難行所以我們現在多增加的五天的國定假日人事總署這裡應該是可以做適當的安排嗎"},{"start":61.792,"end":90.118,"text":"因為整個法令就是等總統三讀通過以後我們會按照整個法令的規定怎樣我們就事實上我們前幾天事實上已經有示牌了一些可能未來假日的一些他會落在哪一個位置然後相關的細節我們已經有做第一版的一個示牌好那所以聽您這樣說的話應該行政院不會針對這個案子提起復議案吧"},{"start":91.975,"end":111.915,"text":"很抱歉我沒有辦法幫行政院來打呼這個不過好我從您剛剛的回答理念大概可以知道現在民進黨政府應該是不會針對這個案提起復議如果提起復議的話不就是成為全民公敵了嗎好那接下來呢我有接下來就針對兩個預算案的部分在這次審查預算的"},{"start":113.956,"end":141.469,"text":"其實有兩個當然跟人總的案子很多啦那麼其中有兩個案子是本行比較關心的就是當時我們有這個凍結一個人總的有關於人事行政政策規劃執行及發展案的這1000萬的案子那時候就是有請人總可以盡速的提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例那請問一下你們現在這樣子的一個法案的進度如何"},{"start":142.233,"end":160.414,"text":"我跟委員報告因為在整個上一年三一夜的時候在大宴有提這樣的一個要求以後我們就開始進行一些邀請這些利害團體來開會然後也公聽會各方面都已經完成"},{"start":160.794,"end":177.062,"text":"那在上一年年底我們已經把整個草案送已經完成人權跟姓名的評估嘛然後也 政委也開會那現在就等行政院排入整個院會議程然後會送大院整個程序已經進行到這裡了"},{"start":178.047,"end":206.118,"text":"只是進行到行政院所以根本還沒有說到立法院所以我們根本還沒有看到你們的草案草案我們有對外公告大概有八點因為我想很多委員很關心的是參與的那個諮詢會本來是基層的公教人員代表是沒有我們這次增加了四位進來這是當初的一個要求我們都已經列入到整個新的這個八"},{"start":207.678,"end":224.643,"text":"八點裡面都已經把他拉進來了因為這涉及到就是這一千萬到底能不能解凍那麼當時的要求是說你們要把草案送到立法院可是看起來你們現在都還在行政院會議裡面可能都還沒有排入行政院的會議"},{"start":226.025,"end":249.245,"text":"所以我想這個部分可能之後要請你們把這個草案送到立法院之後那麼我們才可以來做預算案的解凍否則的話不給你們壓力也不知道這個軍公教人員的待遇調整條例草案會什麼時候才會送到立法院"},{"start":249.485,"end":261.846,"text":"不過我這裡真的要拜託委員要支持因為就像學生在寫考卷一樣考卷我已經交到老師那裡老師還沒有批我想責任不能怪在學生嘛"},{"start":264.308,"end":271.473,"text":"因為老師有時候什麼時候改什麼時候你們是公正的第三方我們當時給你們要求是說是你們要盡速的要提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案我們已經提出了我們已經提出了又不是提出道立法院"},{"start":287.565,"end":299.811,"text":"因為裡面會有一些行政程序要走啊所以就是說你們要盡速的跟行政院院長反映到行政院會那裡要盡速排案有跟行政院那一邊報告過了然後也請求盡快能夠排入整個院會的議程因為排入行政院院會議程以後才會送到大院已經有拜託好幾次了因為行政院會有公正的考量今天我是在幫忙人事長非常謝謝委員的建議提議"},{"start":317.039,"end":335.367,"text":"一定要讓院長知道不要一天到晚都只是會去這個下鄉宣講搞大罷免這重要的案子院會該排就排而不是一直拖拖拉拉的從去年到現在已經有多久的時間了好除了這個案子之外還有另外一個就是有關於職安的防護辦法修正草案跟軍公教人員的公務人員有關的這個其實只是辦法啦當時也是說希望人事總署這邊能夠盡速提出你們什麼時候會提呢"},{"start":345.803,"end":370.063,"text":"這個保訓會裡面在公務人員保障法已經在5月6號送到大宴來了5月6號已經送到大宴來了所以你的意思講說這個職安的就公務人員的安全及衛生防護辦法的話這部分的話就跟人種沒有關係是嗎不是沒有關係有關係可是這個法規的主管機關在考試宴那考試宴已經在5月6號已經送到大宴來了"},{"start":371.363,"end":399.803,"text":"好那所以你的意思講說就你們的部分你們的階段已經完成了嗎安慰辦法要匯辦我們行政院然後因為匯嫌而已因為安慰辦法是在兩院匯嫌那他的上有的那個法例公務人員保障法已經5月6號送到大院來的好的了解了好OK那接下來呢我要請法務部對好是謝謝任市長"},{"start":407.904,"end":410.506,"text":"是 部長在這邊有一個議題我想要請您再幫忙澄清事實上這次的預算凍結案裡面有一個是涉及到律師職前訓練的當時法務部這裡應該是編了300多萬後來我們是凍結了50萬"},{"start":428.817,"end":439.244,"text":"可是在今年3月初的時候全聯會自己就發了一個新聞稿講說我們這次有關於律師職權訓練的預算案因為"},{"start":445.563,"end":471.149,"text":"法務部刪除了該部的檢查行政業務的費用的10%所以呢整個的之前訓練的預算就下修為297萬然後看起來又把這個責任又怪罪到立法院請問一下我想請問部長你們現在是對於律師之前訓練的這個經費是不是真的是有下修"},{"start":472.422,"end":483.667,"text":"是有少給全綠會嗎跟委員報告像原來編的預算是331萬因為統三的關係所以統三10%所以變成是預算是297合定是2979000元那這部分是有有凍結50萬可是統三的部分的話你們自己中間可以去做一些調配嘛對不對你們為什麼要去刪這個"},{"start":500.496,"end":503.058,"text":"律師值錢委外訓練費用我們當時並沒有說要統刪並沒有刪這個部分如果要刪50萬的話我當時就直接我們就刪了我們只是凍結"},{"start":511.496,"end":532.681,"text":"跟委員報告因為這一次去年以上次上個年度來講的話因為預算不符因為實際核算的決算的是386他是預算數是331但是覺得是386萬餘顏那預算不準是有檢查室的業務費的流但是這一次是沒辦法沒辦法流用的"},{"start":536.583,"end":554.322,"text":"因為最主要是沒辦法留用那另外這次那個委辦的預算我們是編了六百八十七萬四千元律師職員訓練是佔了百分之四十八所以這部分的確是因為不足所以這次我們就減減了變成是辦五次的一個職權的一個訓練的一個梯次"},{"start":554.602,"end":570.495,"text":"部長我想要講的就是我們其實當時每筆預算都好好看包含項目細項的部分我們刪的是檢查事務費用包含宣傳費或是其他一些費用並沒有要去刪這個律師的委外訓練費用當時只是說凍結50萬可是因為你們的捅刪而且你們釋放出錯誤的訊息以至於讓外界認為說是我們立法院刪了這個律師執行訓練的費用這50萬"},{"start":584.438,"end":613.043,"text":"對我之前我就已經有說這防部次長的這種說法根本就是在造謠你們自己內部的調整跟我們立法院有什麼關係是你們認為說律師值錢訓練費用這部分是可以少所以你們自己把它又刪了然後讓人家本來是一年半六次在去年就已經宣告說一年半六次的這個踢訓後來變成是就是少一個踢次變成是五個踢次那中間又有一些踢次的時間的日期不是很恰當"},{"start":613.783,"end":615.505,"text":"經過本席請你們法務部來協調後來才調整出一個比較適當的梯子但是現在仍然是辦五個梯子"},{"start":623.462,"end":628.466,"text":"就是用線上跟那個實體的一個上對現在總之就是辦五個梯子嘛所以我們原來的意思是說你們331萬的預算我們凍結50萬你們提出專案報告之後就可以解凍還是應該要以辦六個梯子為主結果你們現在自己刪了刪了之後又已經公告現在只辦五個梯子所以本席的想法是說那現在我給你解凍這50萬是什麼意義"},{"start":645.077,"end":664.317,"text":"沒有意義啦 你這50萬看起來你們又流去做什麼宣傳費沒有沒有 跟委員報告因為我們是一個委辦會用是編了687萬4千元那我們現在是同3%所以其他的各項的委辦會全部都是3%所以那個律師職權的訓練費正好佔這一筆的委辦會的48%"},{"start":669.083,"end":681.139,"text":"48%所以這邊如果全部統三的話我們沒辦法再去從其他的委辦的項目再去去支應就是這樣去留意我跟你講就算是你刪了10%的部分"},{"start":683.926,"end":707.646,"text":"這個事實上你們現在第一次也都縮減了所以看起來也沒有解凍這50萬的必要因為你們就少辦了好我跟你講這個部分我們之後再來談那更重要的是說按照律師法的規定我之前就已經講了109年通過的律師法當時說之前訓練的這個辦理律師之前訓練是要由全國律師公會來辦理"},{"start":709.528,"end":720.085,"text":"所以相關的辦法也應該要提早要提出來那你們的公告呢 之前一直沒有公告那我最近看到了 行政院現在已經公告了嘛116年要實施"},{"start":722.469,"end":734.011,"text":"這已經報行政院核定已經報行政院核定嗎?已經看到了嗎?116年才公告實施核定了那個116年會1月1號會來所以也就是說從109年到115年的這麼多年的時間都是法務部在出這筆費用而不是由全國律師公會出這筆費用對不對?這個是一個委辦的一個費用"},{"start":747.185,"end":774.348,"text":"委辦的費用我從...對,沒有錯,就是由法務部來支應這個委辦費可是從律師法當時的修正裡面看不出來是由法務部要委辦而是由律師公會自己要去出這筆錢至於說辦理之前訓練的費用是不是要由律師自己負擔一些費用這個是當時你們在修法時候的情況嘛你當時修法為什麼要修法"},{"start":775.149,"end":792.221,"text":"就是因為想說之後這個基礎訓練一個月的基礎訓練上課的費用可能就是由全國律師公會來辦理那麼至於他要不要跟這些來受訓的學生然後來收一些上課的費用就是當時的想法他們可能會要來受律師訓練這些"},{"start":796.604,"end":812.302,"text":"這個才剛考上的律師學生們他們要自己要負擔一些費用結果呢你們一直遲遲的不去公告相關的這個辦法不去公告這個相關的作業規則那麼反而都是由國家一直來出這筆錢"},{"start":813.581,"end":838.275,"text":"那個更委員報告那個已經公告了那再來的話就是要有全聯會來處理好我希望這個辦法趕快提出來因為本席也要看已經施行了這辦法已經施行了不好意思那之後再提出來你們的辦法給我來看好謝謝部長那接下來我還要問一下矯正署最後矯正署今天有來嗎"},{"start":850.459,"end":857.865,"text":"針對矯正署的部分本席在之前有看到我們上次的預算案第398項的預算案你們有提個專案報告在當時的預算是凍結"},{"start":865.652,"end":889.074,"text":"辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務3000萬這筆錢本來是編了9億我們凍結了3000萬然後希望你們能夠提出一個專案報告那麼特別是針對矯正署保外醫治的審查機制來做一個專案報告請問署長你有看到你們提出的專案報告內容嗎有你們寫了多少字你知道嗎"},{"start":897.75,"end":914.483,"text":"可能這個委員看的那個是比較簡要的會有一個專案報告專案報告呢9頁我怎麼沒有看到我這裡只有只有兩頁而且呢不到400字你們是今天才提的嗎"},{"start":917.625,"end":939.28,"text":"是什麼時候寫 是跟我這邊講的398的這個案子一樣嗎專案報告可是你們提供給我們的書面資料就是這兩頁啊而且這兩頁裡面你們只寫了不到400個字耶然後就要解凍3000萬然後內容非常的空白你們法規抄給我 抄給我們這些委員們看因為就整個勞務部有很多案子我們這邊業績是蠻多的"},{"start":948.103,"end":972.636,"text":"別的解凍案其實也都是寫得很完整你們這個時代是太草率了啦 對不對然後你們說截至到114年3月31號保外醫治的在外人數504人在外超過9年的有32人你們總是要列個表大概是什麼樣的情況竟然有保外就醫超過9年而且甚至更長的你們都沒有寫出來啊"},{"start":976.963,"end":997.551,"text":"你們這樣子的一個專案報告方式讓本席非常不能認同報告委員 這個專案報告裡面有列表委員可以再詳細看一下好 希望你待會把你們所謂的9頁的報告給我們所有委員看好 沒問題可能放水這樣的一個解凍案是 沒問題好 以上謝謝委員好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":953,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（11時17分）好，謝謝莊委員，每次都給我鼓勵。"],["主席：這是真心的。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，謝謝。好，今天因為是針對整個預算的詢答，所以我就事論事針對預算的部分，首先我想先請人事長。"],["主席：請蘇人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，人事長好。我首先先問您，我們在上禮拜通過了紀念日及假日實施條例，我們有看到新聞上面，您有說這次通過的國定假日的修法會有一些窒礙難行的地方，是不是可以請您說明一下，為什麼會有窒礙難行？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：沒有窒礙難行。"],["翁委員曉玲：沒有窒礙難行，所以我們現在多增加5天的國定假日，人事總處應該是可以做適當的安排嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：整個法令等總統三讀通過以後，我們會按照法令的規定，事實上，我們前幾天已經有試排了一些未來假日可能會落在哪一個位置，針對相關的細節，我們已經有做第一版的試排。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，所以聽您這樣說的話，行政院應該不會針對這個案子提起覆議案吧？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：很抱歉，我沒有辦法幫行政院來答復這個。"],["翁委員曉玲：不過，我從您剛剛的回答裡面大概可以知道，現在民進黨政府應該是不會針對這個案提起覆議，如果提起覆議的話，不就是成為全民公敵了嗎？","好，接下來我針對兩個預算案的部分，這次的審查預算，當然人總的案子很多啦，其中有兩個案子是本席比較關心的，就是當時我們有凍結人總一個有關於「人事行政之政策規劃執行及發展」1,000萬的案子，那時候有請人總儘速提出「軍公教人員待遇調整條例」，請問一下，你們現在這樣子的法案進度如何？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告，因為在上一年3月時在大院有提出這樣一個要求以後，我們就開始進行邀請這些利害團體來開會，然後也辦公聽會，各方面都已經完成。在上一年年底，我們針對整個草案已經完成人權和性平的評估，然後政委也開會，現在就等行政院排入整個院會議程，然後會送大院，整個程序已經進行到這裡了。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，只是進行到行政院，所以根本還沒有送到立法院，所以我們根本還沒有看到你們的草案。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們有對外公告草案，大概有8點，因為很多委員很關心的是參與的諮詢會，本來沒有基層的公教人員代表，我們這次增加了4位進來，這是當初的要求，我們都已經列入到新的8點裡面，都已經把它納進來了。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，因為這涉及到這1,000萬到底能不能解凍，當時的要求是你們要把這個草案送到立法院，可是看起來你們現在都還在行政院會議裡面，可能都還沒有排入行政院的會議，所以我想這部分可能要請你們把這個草案送到立法院之後，我們才可以來做預算案的解凍，否則的話，不給你們壓力，也不知道軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案什麼時候才會送到立法院。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：不過，我這裡真的拜託委員要支持，因為就像學生在寫考卷一樣，考卷我已經交到老師那裡，老師還沒有批，責任不能怪在學生嘛！"],["翁委員曉玲：不是……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：因為老師什麼時候改……"],["翁委員曉玲：那你認為我們是校長了，是不是？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：你們是公正的第三方！"],["翁委員曉玲：我們是公正的第三方？這個案子是我們審的，我們當時對你們的要求是請你們儘速提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案到立法院……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們已經提出了！"],["翁委員曉玲：你們提出，又不是提出到立法院……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：因為裡面會有一些行政程序要走啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：所以就是說你們要儘速跟行政院院長反應，行政院會那裡要儘速排案，責任不在我們立法院。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有跟行政院那邊報告過了，然後也請求儘快能夠排入整個院會的議程，因為排入行政院院會議程以後才會送到大院，已經有拜託好幾次了，因為行政院會有綜整的考量。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，所以今天我是在幫忙人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝，非常謝謝委員。"],["翁委員曉玲：這個議題一定要讓院長知道，不要一天到晚都只是會下鄉宣講搞大罷免。這個重要的案子，院會該排就排，而不是一直拖拖拉拉的，從去年到現在已經有多久的時間？除了這個案子之外，還有另外一個就是有關於職安防護辦法的修正草案，就是跟公務人員有關的，這個其實只是辦法，當時也是希望人事總處能夠儘速提出，你們什麼時候會提呢？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：保訓會裡面針對公務人員保障法已經在5月6號送到大院來了！"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你的意思講說公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法的部分就跟人總沒有關係，是嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：不是沒有關係，有關係，可是這個法規的主管機關在考試院，考試院已經在5月6號送到大院來了。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，所以你的意思是說，就你們的部分，在你們的階段已經完成了？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：安衛辦法要會辦我們行政院，因為會銜而已，安衛辦法是在兩院會銜，它的上游法律──公務人員保障法5月6號已經送到大院來了。"],["翁委員曉玲：好的，了解了，OK！接下來我要請法務部，謝謝人事長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，部長，在這邊有一個議題，我想要請您再幫忙澄清。事實上，這次的預算凍結案裡面，有涉及到律師職前訓練，當時法務部應該是編了三百多萬，後來我們凍結了50萬，可是在今年3月初時，全律會自己就發了一個新聞稿講說，有關這次律師職前訓練的預算案，因為法務部刪除了該部的檢察行政業務費用的10%，所以整個職前訓練的預算就下修為297萬，看起來又把這個責任怪罪到立法院。我想請問部長，你們現在對於律師職前訓練的經費是不是真的有下修？是有少給全律會嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，原來編的預算是331萬。"],["翁委員曉玲：是的。"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為統刪的關係，統刪10%，所以變成預算核定是297萬9,000元，這部分是有凍結50萬。"],["翁委員曉玲：可是統刪的部分，你們自己中間可以去做一些調配，對不對？你們為什麼要去刪律師職前委外訓練費用？我們當時並沒有刪這個部分，如果要刪50萬，我當時就直接刪了，我們只是凍結。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，因為以上個年度來講，實際決算是386萬，它的預算數是331萬，但是決算是三百八十六萬餘元，而預算不只是有檢察司業務費的流用，而且這一次最主要是因為沒辦法流用。另外，這次委辦的預算，我們編了687萬4,000元，律師職前訓練占48%，這部分的確是因為不足，所以這次我們就減了，變成辦5次職前訓練梯次。"],["翁委員曉玲：部長，我想要講的就是，我們當時其實每一筆預算都有好好看，包含項目、細項的部分，我們刪的是檢察事務費用，包含宣傳費或是其他一些費用，並沒有要刪律師委外訓練費用，當時只是說凍結50萬，可是因為你們統刪而且釋放出錯誤的訊息，以致於讓外界認為是我們立法院刪了律師職前訓練費用50萬。我之前就已經有說，法務部次長的這種說法根本就是在造謠，你們自己內部的調整跟我們立法院有什麼關係？是你們認為律師職前訓練費用這部分可以少，所以你們自己把它刪了，讓人家本來在去年就已經宣告一年辦6次梯訓，後來變成少1個梯次，變成是5個梯次，中間又有一些梯次的時間、日期不是很恰當，經過本席請法務部來協調，後來才調整出一個比較適當的梯次，但是現在仍然是辦5個梯次。"],["鄭部長銘謙：就是用線上跟實體上課。"],["翁委員曉玲：對，總之現在就是辦5個梯次，所以原來的意思是331萬的預算，我們凍結50萬，你們提出專案報告之後就可以解凍，還是應該要以辦6個梯次為主，結果你們現在自己刪了，刪了之後又已經公告只辦5個梯次，所以本席的想法是我給你解凍這50萬有什麼意義？沒有意義啦！這50萬看起來你們又流去作為宣傳費。"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有，跟委員報告，因為這個委辦費用編了687萬4,000元，我們現在是統刪10%，所以其他各項的委辦費全部都是刪10%，而律師職前訓練費正好占這一筆委辦費的48%，所以這邊如果全部統刪的話，我們沒辦法再從其他的委辦項目去支應，或是這樣去流用。另外，事實上……"],["翁委員曉玲：我跟你講，就算是刪了10%，事實上，你們現在梯次也都縮減了，所以看起來也沒有解凍這50萬的必要，因為你們就少辦了，這個部分我們之後再來談。更重要的是，按照律師法的規定，我之前就已經講了依照109年通過的律師法，當時規定律師職前訓練是要由全國律師公會來辦理，所以相關辦法也應該要提早提出來，你們之前一直沒有公告，我最近看到了，行政院已經公告116年要實施。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這已經報行政院核定。"],["翁委員曉玲：我有看到116年才公告實施。"],["鄭部長銘謙：核定了，116年1月。"],["翁委員曉玲：也就是從109年到115年這麼多年的時間，都是法務部在出這筆費用，而不是由全國律師公會出這筆費用，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是一個委辦費用，沒有錯，就是由法務來支應這個委辦費用。"],["翁委員曉玲：可是從律師法當時的修正裡面看不出來是法務部要委辦，而是律師公會自己要去出這筆錢，至於辦理職前訓練的費用是不是要由律師自己負擔一些費用，這是當時你們在修法時候的情況，當時為什麼要修法？就是因為認為之後一個月基礎訓練的上課費用要由全國律師公會來辦理，至於它要不要跟來受訓的學生收取一些上課費用，這是當時的想法，他們可能要收律師訓練費，這些才剛考上的律師、學生們要自己負擔一些費用，結果你們一直遲遲不公告相關的辦法、不公告相關的作業規則，反而都是由國家一直來出這筆錢。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，那個已經公告了，再來就是要由全聯會來處理。"],["翁委員曉玲：我希望這個辦法趕快提出來，因為本席也要看。"],["鄭部長銘謙：已經施行了。"],["翁委員曉玲：辦法已經施行了，不好意思，之後再提送你們的辦法給我看。"],["鄭部長銘謙：好。"],["翁委員曉玲：謝謝部長。最後，我還要問一下矯正署，矯正署今天有來嗎？"],["主席：部長請回，請矯正署。"],["翁委員曉玲：針對矯正署的部分，本席有看到上次第398項的預算案，你們有提一個專案報告，當時是凍結「辦理矯正、醫療及訓練業務」的預算3,000萬，這筆錢本來是編列9億，我們凍結了3,000萬，並希望你們能夠提出一個專案報告，特別是針對矯正署保外醫治的審查機制來做一個專案報告，請問署長，你有看到你們提出的專案報告內容嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：有。"],["翁委員曉玲：你們寫了多少字，你知道嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：委員看到的那個報告是比較簡要的，我們有一個專案報告，總共有9頁。"],["翁委員曉玲：9頁？我怎麼沒有看到，我這裡只有2頁，而且不到400字。"],["周署長輝煌：現在可以送給委員嗎？"],["翁委員曉玲：你們是今天才提的嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：不是現在才寫的。"],["翁委員曉玲：是什麼時候寫的，跟我這邊講的第398項的這個案子一樣是專案報告嗎？可是你們提供給我們的書面資料就是這2頁，而且這2頁裡面你們只寫了不到400個字，然後就要解凍3,000萬，內容非常的空白，你們把法規抄給我們這些委員們看。"],["周署長輝煌：因為整個法務部有很多案子，我們這邊的頁數是滿多的，整個放進去可能……"],["翁委員曉玲：別的解凍案其實也都是寫得很完整，你們這個實在是太草率了，你們說截至到114年3月31日，保外醫治仍具保在外人數有504人，在外超過9年的有32人，你們總是要列個表，讓我們知道大概是什麼樣的情況，竟然有保外就醫超過9年，甚至更長的，你們都沒有寫出來，你們這樣的專案報告方式，讓本席非常不能認同。"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，這個專案報告裡面有列表，委員可以再詳細看一下。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，希望你待會把你們所謂的9頁的報告，提供給我們所有委員看，否則本席不可能放水這樣的解凍案，以上。"],["周署長輝煌：沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝翁曉玲委員。","接下來請最帥氣的羅智強委員，要讓主席誇獎什麼，你們都要自己跟我說。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-16","speakers":["莊瑞雄","王義川","黃國昌","吳宗憲","沈發惠","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","陳培瑜","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","翁曉玲","羅智強"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2025-05-12"],"gazette_id":"1144802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144802_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於監察院主管預算凍結項目共 1案；二、處理114年度中央政\n府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管預算凍結項目共7案；三、審查及處理114年度中央\n政府總預算關於考試院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案；四、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於法\n務部及所屬主管預算凍結項目共23案","agenda_id":"1144802_00002"}}}