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{\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 84.453, \"end\": 84.593, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 84.593, \"end\": 84.753, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 84.753, \"end\": 84.893, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 84.893, \"end\": 85.033, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 85.033, \"end\": 85.333, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"七\", \"start\": 85.333, \"end\": 85.533, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 85.533, \"end\": 85.733, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 85.733, \"end\": 85.913, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 85.913, \"end\": 86.053, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 86.053, \"end\": 86.374, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"八\", \"start\": 86.374, \"end\": 86.594, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 86.594, \"end\": 86.614, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}]}, {\"start\": 87.854, \"end\": 104.981, \"text\": \"我們是根據去年有兩個罷免案 一個是台北第五選舉區那個花的費用大概是一千五百萬左右另外就是中市二選區大概是一千九百 將近兩千萬這樣不用捨棄\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 87.854, \"end\": 88.214, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 88.214, \"end\": 88.594, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 88.594, \"end\": 89.495, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 89.495, \"end\": 89.755, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 89.755, \"end\": 90.015, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 90.015, \"end\": 90.835, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"罷\"}, {\"word\": \"免\", \"start\": 90.835, \"end\": 91.035, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 91.035, \"end\": 91.276, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 91.276, \"end\": 91.656, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 91.656, \"end\": 92.016, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 92.016, \"end\": 92.356, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"北\", 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\"end\": 451.795, \"text\": \"我們認為是一個特殊案件所以他可以保留我們國人的身份協助他已經把註銷放棄了我剛剛問你的是他在哪個單位任職他有沒有涉及有關機密的業務目前都已排除都已排除就是曾經涉及囉都已排除了現在那就是有涉及整個機密的業務是嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 426.14, \"end\": 426.581, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 426.581, \"end\": 426.781, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 426.781, \"end\": 427.061, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 427.061, \"end\": 427.261, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"殊\", \"start\": 427.261, \"end\": 427.481, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 427.481, \"end\": 427.721, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 427.721, \"end\": 428.342, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 428.342, \"end\": 428.482, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 428.482, \"end\": 428.582, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 428.582, \"end\": 428.762, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"可\", 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00:00:06,647\n謝謝主席我們請中選會理事主委\n\n2\n00:00:20,478 --> 00:00:37,337\n主委我想請教一下就是我們現在其實全世界都在面臨川普高關稅而且匯率戰的關係所以全世界其實都在這個全力應戰但是呢我想在民進黨的我們的執政黨還是全心全意在搞大罷免喔所以\n\n3\n00:00:37,977 --> 00:01:00,485\n現在我看今年中選會的預算只有編列四億八千六百六十六萬並沒有編列罷免立委跟新竹市長罷免所需要的經費那今年是公投年也沒有看到編列相關的經費那最近我們可以參考的罷免案大概就是去年基隆市長的一個罷免案請問主委那一次的基隆市長的罷免案花了多少錢\n\n4\n00:01:01,945 --> 00:01:26,614\n經費從哪裡來基隆的罷免案中央沒出錢因為那個經費是必須要地方政府來負擔那一次基隆市政府支出的費用大概是兩千七百多萬那我有看到你們中選會發的新聞稿說這一次的立委的選舉的經費大概是一千七百到一千八百萬\n\n5\n00:01:27,854 --> 00:01:44,981\n我們是根據去年有兩個罷免案一個是台北第五選舉區那個花的費用大概是一千五百萬左右另外就是中市二選區大概是一千九百將近兩千萬這樣不用捨棄\n\n6\n00:01:46,682 --> 00:02:04,095\n所以說如果假設這次全部都通過的話要進行罷免的投票總共需要經費是多少那要從哪裡來支應一個案子剛剛跟委員報告就是一千七到一千八但是多少個案子會成案我們現在還不敢說那經費要從哪裡來\n\n7\n00:02:05,956 --> 00:02:26,441\n經費因為罷免案你沒有辦法變入這個年度的預算因為有沒有有多少都不知道所以我請教你罷免案的經費會從哪裡來所以罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金所以罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎也就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎\n\n8\n00:02:27,701 --> 00:02:45,192\n我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金就是第二預備金嗎第二預備金那我再跟主委請教一下因為大家都知道中選會就是一個中立的國家的選務的一個機構那上次我在詢問您的時候\n\n9\n00:02:46,292 --> 00:03:12,927\n主委特別提到說國民黨有涉入組織性的犯罪其實您不是政治評論員也不是執政黨的打手講這樣子好像說這個國民黨就是好像鋪天蓋地的組織犯罪說得好像只要有三個人以上就可以從事某項政治活動那我現在要提醒你法律不能雙標政治更不能雙標我們可以看一下最近很有名的這個民進黨直接相關的共諜案\n\n10\n00:03:14,128 --> 00:03:35,196\n已經陸續的爆出瞎臉的名單有立法院前院長游錫坤的助理聖楚音有總統府辦公室的國安資義吳尚宇有民進黨中央黨部的民主學院的副主任邱士源有新北市民進黨籍的市議員領餘點的特助黃曲榮還有外交部長吳釗燮任內的助理\n\n11\n00:03:37,737 --> 00:04:07,003\n和人杰所以这些人都不是犯犯之辈也不是无党不派都是民进党的党员分别担任党务干部府会的机要党公职的助理所以如果依照组织犯罪防治条例第二条的定义只要三人以上涉犯五年以上的本罪即可认定为组织犯罪那请教主委民进党这一连串的这个涉共谍的情资是不是已经具备组织性结构性如果依你给国民党贴的标签来看民进党是不是更符合组织性的犯罪\n\n12\n00:04:08,150 --> 00:04:32,887\n我第一點跟委員報告的就是我上次答覆委員質詢的時候我所用的詞應該是組織性的犯罪組織性的犯罪對啊組織性的犯罪所以我現在請教您啊依照剛剛講的這些人是不是民進黨更符合民所謂的組織性的犯罪我第二點跟委員報告的我上一次之所以講出那樣子的話其實我內心是有糾結的\n\n13\n00:04:34,228 --> 00:04:57,074\n為什麼我內心糾結呢因為那個事件牽涉到的是中選會作為捍衛人民參政權而這個參政權受到傷害的時候不管你有沒有糾結都不該在你口中說出這樣子的一個其實我相信你看到一般的言論大家都看到是非常的失職又失格這不該是一個獨立中立的\n\n14\n00:04:59,375 --> 00:05:20,278\n中選會的主委該講出這樣的話如果有時間我會再跟委員做更進一層的說明那第三點剛剛請教您的是民進黨的共諜案您認不認為更符合您所謂的組織性犯罪那個跟我要捍衛的中選會的價值無關所以我就不便評論所以\n\n15\n00:05:20,979 --> 00:05:43,489\n在這邊告訴李建永主委其實您上次的發言其實非常的失職又失格我相信您也感受到了全體人民對您的這個疑問那我想身為民進黨中選會的主委您不是民進黨的主委而已您是整個中選會的主委希望您要秉持中立公正公開的方式不要辦藍不辦綠\n\n16\n00:05:45,111 --> 00:05:49,858\n對於執行我們的選務中立的執行依法來辦選務我深具信心\n\n17\n00:06:04,266 --> 00:06:33,362\n主委好邱主委好我想請教一下喔就是之前呢您有受訪有提到說這個民進黨政府以保防清查為名擴大針對軍公教進行中國身份證跟居住證的清查那您接受媒體的專訪有提到說到四月底已經有37萬人完成拒絕其中有兩人持有中國身份證有75人持有中國的居住證這個數字我想對大家來說都很震驚喔\n\n18\n00:06:33,582 --> 00:06:45,127\n因為在我們的軍公教體系居然有這麼多人是有這個居住證有中國身份證那請問一下邱主委那兩位擁有中國身份證的軍公教人員在哪個單位任職\n\n19\n00:06:50,157 --> 00:07:04,759\n報告確實這兩位有中國身份證的兩位同仁經過我們的協助依照我們兩案條例第九條之一第二項\n\n20\n00:07:06,140 --> 00:07:31,795\n我們認為是一個特殊案件所以他可以保留我們國人的身份協助他已經把註銷放棄了我剛剛問你的是他在哪個單位任職他有沒有涉及有關機密的業務目前都已排除都已排除就是曾經涉及囉都已排除了現在那就是有涉及整個機密的業務是嗎\n\n21\n00:07:34,585 --> 00:07:37,121\n因為已排除嘛代表曾經涉及嘛\n\n22\n00:07:37,771 --> 00:08:04,206\n是是這樣嗎主委他相關的機關已經把它排除掉了相關的機關是什麼機關委員是不是我們不方便在這邊說好那你私底下告訴我但是我想剛剛主委的答案已經告訴我們了他們曾經涉及機密的業務現在已經排除那另外還有就是有75個擁有居住這個身份證的又是在哪些單位有沒有接觸到機密的業務\n\n23\n00:08:06,168 --> 00:08:18,438\n我想我們為什麼要做這個清查跟宣導還有通過一個專案讓大家來拒絕就是讓各個機關啊透過這個清查的作業當中所以你這個是用專案幫助他協助註銷拒絕對不對\n\n24\n00:08:22,642 --> 00:08:40,495\n如果他未來是公務人員對我們國家有忠誠義務的話我們一定要來協助他主委你一定要徹查清楚因為剛不管是那兩個擁有身分證或是75位擁有居住權的他們的業務是不是有涉及機密這我們會來這個不是只是一句已排除就可以處理的是\n\n25\n00:08:41,075 --> 00:08:55,962\n一定要先嚴格的查到底有多少的業務機密已經被洩漏出去然後另外針對您這樣講的話之前針對一萬兩千名的陸配發出的那個通知要求他補繳初級證明是不是就可以比照來幫他們專案協助來去處理呢\n\n26\n00:08:58,303 --> 00:09:14,637\n是公務員報告因為我們過去在2004年3月1號實施的這個兩岸條例之前已經取得台灣身份了由於他們年紀可能比較資深我們都做了很多完整的配套措施跟替代方案\n\n27\n00:09:15,157 --> 00:09:39,929\n那現在有四項替代的那個嗎措施嗎不只就是可以用替代方案有六個標準那另外還有可以延展時間的有三套類型我們盡全力的來協助這些有需要的希望標準要一致啦好嗎因為陸配在我們這邊這麼久他都擁有我們的身份證其實他就是我們的家人就是我們的國民希望標準要一致是我們希望他在身份上\n\n28\n00:09:40,549 --> 00:09:50,460\n都是不要被人家質疑都是合法在合法的前提他未來才能夠安居樂業合法的前提不要造成民怨啦不要造成他們的困擾啦我們就全力來協助他們謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4740\t6647\t謝謝主席 我們請中選會理事主委\n20478\t37337\t主委我想請教一下就是我們現在其實全世界都在面臨川普高關稅而且匯率戰的關係所以全世界其實都在這個全力應戰但是呢我想在民進黨的我們的執政黨還是全心全意在搞大罷免喔所以\n37977\t60485\t現在我看今年中選會的預算只有編列四億八千六百六十六萬並沒有編列罷免立委跟新竹市長罷免所需要的經費那今年是公投年也沒有看到編列相關的經費那最近我們可以參考的罷免案大概就是去年基隆市長的一個罷免案請問主委那一次的基隆市長的罷免案花了多少錢\n61945\t86614\t經費從哪裡來基隆的罷免案中央沒出錢因為那個經費是必須要地方政府來負擔那一次基隆市政府支出的費用大概是兩千七百多萬那我有看到你們中選會發的新聞稿說這一次的立委的選舉的經費大概是一千七百到一千八百萬\n87854\t104981\t我們是根據去年有兩個罷免案 一個是台北第五選舉區那個花的費用大概是一千五百萬左右另外就是中市二選區大概是一千九百 將近兩千萬這樣不用捨棄\n106682\t124095\t所以說如果假設這次全部都通過的話要進行罷免的投票總共需要經費是多少那要從哪裡來支應一個案子剛剛跟委員報告就是一千七到一千八但是多少個案子會成案我們現在還不敢說那經費要從哪裡來\n125956\t146441\t經費因為罷免案你沒有辦法變入這個年度的預算因為有沒有有多少都不知道所以我請教你罷免案的經費會從哪裡來所以罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金所以罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎也就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎\n147701\t165192\t我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金就是第二預備金嗎第二預備金那我再跟主委請教一下因為大家都知道中選會就是一個中立的國家的選務的一個機構那上次我在詢問您的時候\n166292\t192927\t主委特別提到說國民黨有涉入組織性的犯罪其實您不是政治評論員也不是執政黨的打手講這樣子好像說這個國民黨就是好像鋪天蓋地的組織犯罪說得好像只要有三個人以上就可以從事某項政治活動那我現在要提醒你法律不能雙標政治更不能雙標我們可以看一下最近很有名的這個民進黨直接相關的共諜案\n194128\t215196\t已經陸續的爆出瞎臉的名單有立法院前院長游錫坤的助理聖楚音有總統府辦公室的國安資義吳尚宇有民進黨中央黨部的民主學院的副主任邱士源有新北市民進黨籍的市議員領餘點的特助黃曲榮還有外交部長吳釗燮任內的助理\n217737\t247003\t和人杰所以这些人都不是犯犯之辈也不是无党不派都是民进党的党员分别担任党务干部府会的机要党公职的助理所以如果依照组织犯罪防治条例第二条的定义只要三人以上涉犯五年以上的本罪即可认定为组织犯罪那请教主委民进党这一连串的这个涉共谍的情资是不是已经具备组织性结构性如果依你给国民党贴的标签来看民进党是不是更符合组织性的犯罪\n248150\t272887\t我第一點跟委員報告的就是我上次答覆委員質詢的時候我所用的詞應該是組織性的犯罪組織性的犯罪對啊組織性的犯罪所以我現在請教您啊依照剛剛講的這些人是不是民進黨更符合民所謂的組織性的犯罪我第二點跟委員報告的我上一次之所以講出那樣子的話其實我內心是有糾結的\n274228\t297074\t為什麼我內心糾結呢因為那個事件牽涉到的是中選會作為捍衛人民參政權而這個參政權受到傷害的時候不管你有沒有糾結都不該在你口中說出這樣子的一個其實我相信你看到一般的言論大家都看到是非常的失職又失格這不該是一個獨立中立的\n299375\t320278\t中選會的主委該講出這樣的話如果有時間我會再跟委員做更進一層的說明那第三點剛剛請教您的是民進黨的共諜案您認不認為更符合您所謂的組織性犯罪那個跟我要捍衛的中選會的價值無關所以我就不便評論所以\n320979\t343489\t在這邊告訴李建永主委其實您上次的發言其實非常的失職又失格我相信您也感受到了全體人民對您的這個疑問那我想身為民進黨中選會的主委您不是民進黨的主委而已您是整個中選會的主委希望您要秉持中立公正公開的方式不要辦藍不辦綠\n345111\t349858\t對於執行我們的選務 中立的執行 依法來辦選務 我深具信心\n364266\t393362\t主委好邱主委好我想請教一下喔就是之前呢您有受訪有提到說這個民進黨政府以保防清查為名擴大針對軍公教進行中國身份證跟居住證的清查那您接受媒體的專訪有提到說到四月底已經有37萬人完成拒絕其中有兩人持有中國身份證有75人持有中國的居住證這個數字我想對大家來說都很震驚喔\n393582\t405127\t因為在我們的軍公教體系居然有這麼多人是有這個居住證有中國身份證那請問一下邱主委那兩位擁有中國身份證的軍公教人員在哪個單位任職\n410157\t424759\t報告 確實這兩位有中國身份證的兩位同仁經過我們的協助依照我們兩案條例第九條之一第二項\n426140\t451795\t我們認為是一個特殊案件所以他可以保留我們國人的身份協助他已經把註銷放棄了我剛剛問你的是他在哪個單位任職他有沒有涉及有關機密的業務目前都已排除都已排除就是曾經涉及囉都已排除了現在那就是有涉及整個機密的業務是嗎\n454585\t457121\t因為已排除嘛代表曾經涉及嘛\n457771\t484206\t是是這樣嗎主委他相關的機關已經把它排除掉了相關的機關是什麼機關委員是不是我們不方便在這邊說好那你私底下告訴我但是我想剛剛主委的答案已經告訴我們了他們曾經涉及機密的業務現在已經排除那另外還有就是有75個擁有居住這個身份證的又是在哪些單位有沒有接觸到機密的業務\n486168\t498438\t我想我們為什麼要做這個清查跟宣導還有通過一個專案讓大家來拒絕就是讓各個機關啊透過這個清查的作業當中所以你這個是用專案幫助他協助註銷拒絕對不對\n502642\t520495\t如果他未來是公務人員對我們國家有忠誠義務的話我們一定要來協助他主委你一定要徹查清楚因為剛不管是那兩個擁有身分證或是75位擁有居住權的他們的業務是不是有涉及機密這我們會來這個不是只是一句已排除就可以處理的是\n521075\t535962\t一定要先嚴格的查到底有多少的業務機密已經被洩漏出去然後另外針對您這樣講的話之前針對一萬兩千名的陸配發出的那個通知要求他補繳初級證明是不是就可以比照來幫他們專案協助來去處理呢\n538303\t554637\t是 公務員報告因為我們過去在2004年3月1號實施的這個兩岸條例之前已經取得台灣身份了由於他們年紀可能比較資深我們都做了很多完整的配套措施跟替代方案\n555157\t579929\t那現在有四項替代的那個嗎 措施嗎不只 就是可以用替代方案有六個標準那另外還有可以延展時間的有三套類型我們盡全力的來協助這些有需要的希望標準要一致啦 好嗎因為陸配在我們這邊這麼久他都擁有我們的身份證 其實他就是我們的家人就是我們的國民 希望標準要一致是 我們希望他在身份上\n580549\t590460\t都是不要被人家質疑都是合法在合法的前提他未來才能夠安居樂業合法的前提不要造成民怨啦不要造成他們的困擾啦我們就全力來協助他們謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請中選會理事主委\n主委我想請教一下就是我們現在其實全世界都在面臨川普高關稅而且匯率戰的關係所以全世界其實都在這個全力應戰但是呢我想在民進黨的我們的執政黨還是全心全意在搞大罷免喔所以\n現在我看今年中選會的預算只有編列四億八千六百六十六萬並沒有編列罷免立委跟新竹市長罷免所需要的經費那今年是公投年也沒有看到編列相關的經費那最近我們可以參考的罷免案大概就是去年基隆市長的一個罷免案請問主委那一次的基隆市長的罷免案花了多少錢\n經費從哪裡來基隆的罷免案中央沒出錢因為那個經費是必須要地方政府來負擔那一次基隆市政府支出的費用大概是兩千七百多萬那我有看到你們中選會發的新聞稿說這一次的立委的選舉的經費大概是一千七百到一千八百萬\n我們是根據去年有兩個罷免案 一個是台北第五選舉區那個花的費用大概是一千五百萬左右另外就是中市二選區大概是一千九百 將近兩千萬這樣不用捨棄\n所以說如果假設這次全部都通過的話要進行罷免的投票總共需要經費是多少那要從哪裡來支應一個案子剛剛跟委員報告就是一千七到一千八但是多少個案子會成案我們現在還不敢說那經費要從哪裡來\n經費因為罷免案你沒有辦法變入這個年度的預算因為有沒有有多少都不知道所以我請教你罷免案的經費會從哪裡來所以罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金所以罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎也就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎\n我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金就是第二預備金嗎第二預備金那我再跟主委請教一下因為大家都知道中選會就是一個中立的國家的選務的一個機構那上次我在詢問您的時候\n主委特別提到說國民黨有涉入組織性的犯罪其實您不是政治評論員也不是執政黨的打手講這樣子好像說這個國民黨就是好像鋪天蓋地的組織犯罪說得好像只要有三個人以上就可以從事某項政治活動那我現在要提醒你法律不能雙標政治更不能雙標我們可以看一下最近很有名的這個民進黨直接相關的共諜案\n已經陸續的爆出瞎臉的名單有立法院前院長游錫坤的助理聖楚音有總統府辦公室的國安資義吳尚宇有民進黨中央黨部的民主學院的副主任邱士源有新北市民進黨籍的市議員領餘點的特助黃曲榮還有外交部長吳釗燮任內的助理\n和人杰所以这些人都不是犯犯之辈也不是无党不派都是民进党的党员分别担任党务干部府会的机要党公职的助理所以如果依照组织犯罪防治条例第二条的定义只要三人以上涉犯五年以上的本罪即可认定为组织犯罪那请教主委民进党这一连串的这个涉共谍的情资是不是已经具备组织性结构性如果依你给国民党贴的标签来看民进党是不是更符合组织性的犯罪\n我第一點跟委員報告的就是我上次答覆委員質詢的時候我所用的詞應該是組織性的犯罪組織性的犯罪對啊組織性的犯罪所以我現在請教您啊依照剛剛講的這些人是不是民進黨更符合民所謂的組織性的犯罪我第二點跟委員報告的我上一次之所以講出那樣子的話其實我內心是有糾結的\n為什麼我內心糾結呢因為那個事件牽涉到的是中選會作為捍衛人民參政權而這個參政權受到傷害的時候不管你有沒有糾結都不該在你口中說出這樣子的一個其實我相信你看到一般的言論大家都看到是非常的失職又失格這不該是一個獨立中立的\n中選會的主委該講出這樣的話如果有時間我會再跟委員做更進一層的說明那第三點剛剛請教您的是民進黨的共諜案您認不認為更符合您所謂的組織性犯罪那個跟我要捍衛的中選會的價值無關所以我就不便評論所以\n在這邊告訴李建永主委其實您上次的發言其實非常的失職又失格我相信您也感受到了全體人民對您的這個疑問那我想身為民進黨中選會的主委您不是民進黨的主委而已您是整個中選會的主委希望您要秉持中立公正公開的方式不要辦藍不辦綠\n對於執行我們的選務 中立的執行 依法來辦選務 我深具信心\n主委好邱主委好我想請教一下喔就是之前呢您有受訪有提到說這個民進黨政府以保防清查為名擴大針對軍公教進行中國身份證跟居住證的清查那您接受媒體的專訪有提到說到四月底已經有37萬人完成拒絕其中有兩人持有中國身份證有75人持有中國的居住證這個數字我想對大家來說都很震驚喔\n因為在我們的軍公教體系居然有這麼多人是有這個居住證有中國身份證那請問一下邱主委那兩位擁有中國身份證的軍公教人員在哪個單位任職\n報告 確實這兩位有中國身份證的兩位同仁經過我們的協助依照我們兩案條例第九條之一第二項\n我們認為是一個特殊案件所以他可以保留我們國人的身份協助他已經把註銷放棄了我剛剛問你的是他在哪個單位任職他有沒有涉及有關機密的業務目前都已排除都已排除就是曾經涉及囉都已排除了現在那就是有涉及整個機密的業務是嗎\n因為已排除嘛代表曾經涉及嘛\n是是這樣嗎主委他相關的機關已經把它排除掉了相關的機關是什麼機關委員是不是我們不方便在這邊說好那你私底下告訴我但是我想剛剛主委的答案已經告訴我們了他們曾經涉及機密的業務現在已經排除那另外還有就是有75個擁有居住這個身份證的又是在哪些單位有沒有接觸到機密的業務\n我想我們為什麼要做這個清查跟宣導還有通過一個專案讓大家來拒絕就是讓各個機關啊透過這個清查的作業當中所以你這個是用專案幫助他協助註銷拒絕對不對\n如果他未來是公務人員對我們國家有忠誠義務的話我們一定要來協助他主委你一定要徹查清楚因為剛不管是那兩個擁有身分證或是75位擁有居住權的他們的業務是不是有涉及機密這我們會來這個不是只是一句已排除就可以處理的是\n一定要先嚴格的查到底有多少的業務機密已經被洩漏出去然後另外針對您這樣講的話之前針對一萬兩千名的陸配發出的那個通知要求他補繳初級證明是不是就可以比照來幫他們專案協助來去處理呢\n是 公務員報告因為我們過去在2004年3月1號實施的這個兩岸條例之前已經取得台灣身份了由於他們年紀可能比較資深我們都做了很多完整的配套措施跟替代方案\n那現在有四項替代的那個嗎 措施嗎不只 就是可以用替代方案有六個標準那另外還有可以延展時間的有三套類型我們盡全力的來協助這些有需要的希望標準要一致啦 好嗎因為陸配在我們這邊這麼久他都擁有我們的身份證 其實他就是我們的家人就是我們的國民 希望標準要一致是 我們希望他在身份上\n都是不要被人家質疑都是合法在合法的前提他未來才能夠安居樂業合法的前提不要造成民怨啦不要造成他們的困擾啦我們就全力來協助他們謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.740 --> 00:06.647\n謝謝主席我們請中選會理事主委\n\n00:20.478 --> 00:37.337\n主委我想請教一下就是我們現在其實全世界都在面臨川普高關稅而且匯率戰的關係所以全世界其實都在這個全力應戰但是呢我想在民進黨的我們的執政黨還是全心全意在搞大罷免喔所以\n\n00:37.977 --> 01:00.485\n現在我看今年中選會的預算只有編列四億八千六百六十六萬並沒有編列罷免立委跟新竹市長罷免所需要的經費那今年是公投年也沒有看到編列相關的經費那最近我們可以參考的罷免案大概就是去年基隆市長的一個罷免案請問主委那一次的基隆市長的罷免案花了多少錢\n\n01:01.945 --> 01:26.614\n經費從哪裡來基隆的罷免案中央沒出錢因為那個經費是必須要地方政府來負擔那一次基隆市政府支出的費用大概是兩千七百多萬那我有看到你們中選會發的新聞稿說這一次的立委的選舉的經費大概是一千七百到一千八百萬\n\n01:27.854 --> 01:44.981\n我們是根據去年有兩個罷免案一個是台北第五選舉區那個花的費用大概是一千五百萬左右另外就是中市二選區大概是一千九百將近兩千萬這樣不用捨棄\n\n01:46.682 --> 02:04.095\n所以說如果假設這次全部都通過的話要進行罷免的投票總共需要經費是多少那要從哪裡來支應一個案子剛剛跟委員報告就是一千七到一千八但是多少個案子會成案我們現在還不敢說那經費要從哪裡來\n\n02:05.956 --> 02:26.441\n經費因為罷免案你沒有辦法變入這個年度的預算因為有沒有有多少都不知道所以我請教你罷免案的經費會從哪裡來所以罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金所以罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎也就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎\n\n02:27.701 --> 02:45.192\n我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金就是第二預備金嗎第二預備金那我再跟主委請教一下因為大家都知道中選會就是一個中立的國家的選務的一個機構那上次我在詢問您的時候\n\n02:46.292 --> 03:12.927\n主委特別提到說國民黨有涉入組織性的犯罪其實您不是政治評論員也不是執政黨的打手講這樣子好像說這個國民黨就是好像鋪天蓋地的組織犯罪說得好像只要有三個人以上就可以從事某項政治活動那我現在要提醒你法律不能雙標政治更不能雙標我們可以看一下最近很有名的這個民進黨直接相關的共諜案\n\n03:14.128 --> 03:35.196\n已經陸續的爆出瞎臉的名單有立法院前院長游錫坤的助理聖楚音有總統府辦公室的國安資義吳尚宇有民進黨中央黨部的民主學院的副主任邱士源有新北市民進黨籍的市議員領餘點的特助黃曲榮還有外交部長吳釗燮任內的助理\n\n03:37.737 --> 04:07.003\n和人杰所以这些人都不是犯犯之辈也不是无党不派都是民进党的党员分别担任党务干部府会的机要党公职的助理所以如果依照组织犯罪防治条例第二条的定义只要三人以上涉犯五年以上的本罪即可认定为组织犯罪那请教主委民进党这一连串的这个涉共谍的情资是不是已经具备组织性结构性如果依你给国民党贴的标签来看民进党是不是更符合组织性的犯罪\n\n04:08.150 --> 04:32.887\n我第一點跟委員報告的就是我上次答覆委員質詢的時候我所用的詞應該是組織性的犯罪組織性的犯罪對啊組織性的犯罪所以我現在請教您啊依照剛剛講的這些人是不是民進黨更符合民所謂的組織性的犯罪我第二點跟委員報告的我上一次之所以講出那樣子的話其實我內心是有糾結的\n\n04:34.228 --> 04:57.074\n為什麼我內心糾結呢因為那個事件牽涉到的是中選會作為捍衛人民參政權而這個參政權受到傷害的時候不管你有沒有糾結都不該在你口中說出這樣子的一個其實我相信你看到一般的言論大家都看到是非常的失職又失格這不該是一個獨立中立的\n\n04:59.375 --> 05:20.278\n中選會的主委該講出這樣的話如果有時間我會再跟委員做更進一層的說明那第三點剛剛請教您的是民進黨的共諜案您認不認為更符合您所謂的組織性犯罪那個跟我要捍衛的中選會的價值無關所以我就不便評論所以\n\n05:20.979 --> 05:43.489\n在這邊告訴李建永主委其實您上次的發言其實非常的失職又失格我相信您也感受到了全體人民對您的這個疑問那我想身為民進黨中選會的主委您不是民進黨的主委而已您是整個中選會的主委希望您要秉持中立公正公開的方式不要辦藍不辦綠\n\n05:45.111 --> 05:49.858\n對於執行我們的選務中立的執行依法來辦選務我深具信心\n\n06:04.266 --> 06:33.362\n主委好邱主委好我想請教一下喔就是之前呢您有受訪有提到說這個民進黨政府以保防清查為名擴大針對軍公教進行中國身份證跟居住證的清查那您接受媒體的專訪有提到說到四月底已經有37萬人完成拒絕其中有兩人持有中國身份證有75人持有中國的居住證這個數字我想對大家來說都很震驚喔\n\n06:33.582 --> 06:45.127\n因為在我們的軍公教體系居然有這麼多人是有這個居住證有中國身份證那請問一下邱主委那兩位擁有中國身份證的軍公教人員在哪個單位任職\n\n06:50.157 --> 07:04.759\n報告確實這兩位有中國身份證的兩位同仁經過我們的協助依照我們兩案條例第九條之一第二項\n\n07:06.140 --> 07:31.795\n我們認為是一個特殊案件所以他可以保留我們國人的身份協助他已經把註銷放棄了我剛剛問你的是他在哪個單位任職他有沒有涉及有關機密的業務目前都已排除都已排除就是曾經涉及囉都已排除了現在那就是有涉及整個機密的業務是嗎\n\n07:34.585 --> 07:37.121\n因為已排除嘛代表曾經涉及嘛\n\n07:37.771 --> 08:04.206\n是是這樣嗎主委他相關的機關已經把它排除掉了相關的機關是什麼機關委員是不是我們不方便在這邊說好那你私底下告訴我但是我想剛剛主委的答案已經告訴我們了他們曾經涉及機密的業務現在已經排除那另外還有就是有75個擁有居住這個身份證的又是在哪些單位有沒有接觸到機密的業務\n\n08:06.168 --> 08:18.438\n我想我們為什麼要做這個清查跟宣導還有通過一個專案讓大家來拒絕就是讓各個機關啊透過這個清查的作業當中所以你這個是用專案幫助他協助註銷拒絕對不對\n\n08:22.642 --> 08:40.495\n如果他未來是公務人員對我們國家有忠誠義務的話我們一定要來協助他主委你一定要徹查清楚因為剛不管是那兩個擁有身分證或是75位擁有居住權的他們的業務是不是有涉及機密這我們會來這個不是只是一句已排除就可以處理的是\n\n08:41.075 --> 08:55.962\n一定要先嚴格的查到底有多少的業務機密已經被洩漏出去然後另外針對您這樣講的話之前針對一萬兩千名的陸配發出的那個通知要求他補繳初級證明是不是就可以比照來幫他們專案協助來去處理呢\n\n08:58.303 --> 09:14.637\n是公務員報告因為我們過去在2004年3月1號實施的這個兩岸條例之前已經取得台灣身份了由於他們年紀可能比較資深我們都做了很多完整的配套措施跟替代方案\n\n09:15.157 --> 09:39.929\n那現在有四項替代的那個嗎措施嗎不只就是可以用替代方案有六個標準那另外還有可以延展時間的有三套類型我們盡全力的來協助這些有需要的希望標準要一致啦好嗎因為陸配在我們這邊這麼久他都擁有我們的身份證其實他就是我們的家人就是我們的國民希望標準要一致是我們希望他在身份上\n\n09:40.549 --> 09:50.460\n都是不要被人家質疑都是合法在合法的前提他未來才能夠安居樂業合法的前提不要造成民怨啦不要造成他們的困擾啦我們就全力來協助他們謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.74,"end":6.647,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請中選會理事主委"},{"start":20.478,"end":37.337,"text":"主委我想請教一下就是我們現在其實全世界都在面臨川普高關稅而且匯率戰的關係所以全世界其實都在這個全力應戰但是呢我想在民進黨的我們的執政黨還是全心全意在搞大罷免喔所以"},{"start":37.977,"end":60.485,"text":"現在我看今年中選會的預算只有編列四億八千六百六十六萬並沒有編列罷免立委跟新竹市長罷免所需要的經費那今年是公投年也沒有看到編列相關的經費那最近我們可以參考的罷免案大概就是去年基隆市長的一個罷免案請問主委那一次的基隆市長的罷免案花了多少錢"},{"start":61.945,"end":86.614,"text":"經費從哪裡來基隆的罷免案中央沒出錢因為那個經費是必須要地方政府來負擔那一次基隆市政府支出的費用大概是兩千七百多萬那我有看到你們中選會發的新聞稿說這一次的立委的選舉的經費大概是一千七百到一千八百萬"},{"start":87.854,"end":104.981,"text":"我們是根據去年有兩個罷免案 一個是台北第五選舉區那個花的費用大概是一千五百萬左右另外就是中市二選區大概是一千九百 將近兩千萬這樣不用捨棄"},{"start":106.682,"end":124.095,"text":"所以說如果假設這次全部都通過的話要進行罷免的投票總共需要經費是多少那要從哪裡來支應一個案子剛剛跟委員報告就是一千七到一千八但是多少個案子會成案我們現在還不敢說那經費要從哪裡來"},{"start":125.956,"end":146.441,"text":"經費因為罷免案你沒有辦法變入這個年度的預算因為有沒有有多少都不知道所以我請教你罷免案的經費會從哪裡來所以罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金所以罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎也就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎"},{"start":147.701,"end":165.192,"text":"我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金就是第二預備金嗎第二預備金那我再跟主委請教一下因為大家都知道中選會就是一個中立的國家的選務的一個機構那上次我在詢問您的時候"},{"start":166.292,"end":192.927,"text":"主委特別提到說國民黨有涉入組織性的犯罪其實您不是政治評論員也不是執政黨的打手講這樣子好像說這個國民黨就是好像鋪天蓋地的組織犯罪說得好像只要有三個人以上就可以從事某項政治活動那我現在要提醒你法律不能雙標政治更不能雙標我們可以看一下最近很有名的這個民進黨直接相關的共諜案"},{"start":194.128,"end":215.196,"text":"已經陸續的爆出瞎臉的名單有立法院前院長游錫坤的助理聖楚音有總統府辦公室的國安資義吳尚宇有民進黨中央黨部的民主學院的副主任邱士源有新北市民進黨籍的市議員領餘點的特助黃曲榮還有外交部長吳釗燮任內的助理"},{"start":217.737,"end":247.003,"text":"和人杰所以这些人都不是犯犯之辈也不是无党不派都是民进党的党员分别担任党务干部府会的机要党公职的助理所以如果依照组织犯罪防治条例第二条的定义只要三人以上涉犯五年以上的本罪即可认定为组织犯罪那请教主委民进党这一连串的这个涉共谍的情资是不是已经具备组织性结构性如果依你给国民党贴的标签来看民进党是不是更符合组织性的犯罪"},{"start":248.15,"end":272.887,"text":"我第一點跟委員報告的就是我上次答覆委員質詢的時候我所用的詞應該是組織性的犯罪組織性的犯罪對啊組織性的犯罪所以我現在請教您啊依照剛剛講的這些人是不是民進黨更符合民所謂的組織性的犯罪我第二點跟委員報告的我上一次之所以講出那樣子的話其實我內心是有糾結的"},{"start":274.228,"end":297.074,"text":"為什麼我內心糾結呢因為那個事件牽涉到的是中選會作為捍衛人民參政權而這個參政權受到傷害的時候不管你有沒有糾結都不該在你口中說出這樣子的一個其實我相信你看到一般的言論大家都看到是非常的失職又失格這不該是一個獨立中立的"},{"start":299.375,"end":320.278,"text":"中選會的主委該講出這樣的話如果有時間我會再跟委員做更進一層的說明那第三點剛剛請教您的是民進黨的共諜案您認不認為更符合您所謂的組織性犯罪那個跟我要捍衛的中選會的價值無關所以我就不便評論所以"},{"start":320.979,"end":343.489,"text":"在這邊告訴李建永主委其實您上次的發言其實非常的失職又失格我相信您也感受到了全體人民對您的這個疑問那我想身為民進黨中選會的主委您不是民進黨的主委而已您是整個中選會的主委希望您要秉持中立公正公開的方式不要辦藍不辦綠"},{"start":345.111,"end":349.858,"text":"對於執行我們的選務 中立的執行 依法來辦選務 我深具信心"},{"start":364.266,"end":393.362,"text":"主委好邱主委好我想請教一下喔就是之前呢您有受訪有提到說這個民進黨政府以保防清查為名擴大針對軍公教進行中國身份證跟居住證的清查那您接受媒體的專訪有提到說到四月底已經有37萬人完成拒絕其中有兩人持有中國身份證有75人持有中國的居住證這個數字我想對大家來說都很震驚喔"},{"start":393.582,"end":405.127,"text":"因為在我們的軍公教體系居然有這麼多人是有這個居住證有中國身份證那請問一下邱主委那兩位擁有中國身份證的軍公教人員在哪個單位任職"},{"start":410.157,"end":424.759,"text":"報告 確實這兩位有中國身份證的兩位同仁經過我們的協助依照我們兩案條例第九條之一第二項"},{"start":426.14,"end":451.795,"text":"我們認為是一個特殊案件所以他可以保留我們國人的身份協助他已經把註銷放棄了我剛剛問你的是他在哪個單位任職他有沒有涉及有關機密的業務目前都已排除都已排除就是曾經涉及囉都已排除了現在那就是有涉及整個機密的業務是嗎"},{"start":454.585,"end":457.121,"text":"因為已排除嘛代表曾經涉及嘛"},{"start":457.771,"end":484.206,"text":"是是這樣嗎主委他相關的機關已經把它排除掉了相關的機關是什麼機關委員是不是我們不方便在這邊說好那你私底下告訴我但是我想剛剛主委的答案已經告訴我們了他們曾經涉及機密的業務現在已經排除那另外還有就是有75個擁有居住這個身份證的又是在哪些單位有沒有接觸到機密的業務"},{"start":486.168,"end":498.438,"text":"我想我們為什麼要做這個清查跟宣導還有通過一個專案讓大家來拒絕就是讓各個機關啊透過這個清查的作業當中所以你這個是用專案幫助他協助註銷拒絕對不對"},{"start":502.642,"end":520.495,"text":"如果他未來是公務人員對我們國家有忠誠義務的話我們一定要來協助他主委你一定要徹查清楚因為剛不管是那兩個擁有身分證或是75位擁有居住權的他們的業務是不是有涉及機密這我們會來這個不是只是一句已排除就可以處理的是"},{"start":521.075,"end":535.962,"text":"一定要先嚴格的查到底有多少的業務機密已經被洩漏出去然後另外針對您這樣講的話之前針對一萬兩千名的陸配發出的那個通知要求他補繳初級證明是不是就可以比照來幫他們專案協助來去處理呢"},{"start":538.303,"end":554.637,"text":"是 公務員報告因為我們過去在2004年3月1號實施的這個兩岸條例之前已經取得台灣身份了由於他們年紀可能比較資深我們都做了很多完整的配套措施跟替代方案"},{"start":555.157,"end":579.929,"text":"那現在有四項替代的那個嗎 措施嗎不只 就是可以用替代方案有六個標準那另外還有可以延展時間的有三套類型我們盡全力的來協助這些有需要的希望標準要一致啦 好嗎因為陸配在我們這邊這麼久他都擁有我們的身份證 其實他就是我們的家人就是我們的國民 希望標準要一致是 我們希望他在身份上"},{"start":580.549,"end":590.46,"text":"都是不要被人家質疑都是合法在合法的前提他未來才能夠安居樂業合法的前提不要造成民怨啦不要造成他們的困擾啦我們就全力來協助他們謝謝好 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":273,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（9時59分）謝謝主席，請中選會李主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：主委早。主委，我想請教一下，現在全世界都面臨川普高關稅及匯率戰的問題而全力應戰，但是我們的執政黨民進黨還是全心全意在搞大罷免。我看今年中選會的預算只有編列4億8,666萬，並沒有編列罷免立委及新竹市市長所需要的經費，加上今年是公投年，也沒有看到編列相關的經費。最近我們可以參考的罷免案大概就是去年基隆市市長的罷免案，請問主委，那一次基隆市市長的罷免案花了多少錢？經費從哪裡來？"],["李主任委員進勇：基隆的罷免案，中央沒出錢，因為那個經費必須要由地方政府來負擔，那次基隆市政府支出的費用大概是二千七百多萬。"],["許委員宇甄：二千七百多萬。我看到你們中選會發的新聞稿提到，這次立委選舉的選務經費大概是1,700到1,800萬，是嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們是根據去年有兩個罷免案，一個是臺北第5選舉區，費用大概是1,500萬左右；另外就是中市2選區，大概是1,900萬、將近2,000萬。以這樣來推估，差不多1,800萬左右。"],["許委員宇甄：所以假設這次全部都成案通過的話，要進行罷免的投票，總共需要的經費是多少？要從哪裡來支應？"],["李主任委員進勇：剛剛跟委員報告，一個案子就是1,800萬左右。"],["許委員宇甄：1,700萬到1,800萬。"],["李主任委員進勇：但是多少個案子會成案，我們現在還不敢說。"],["許委員宇甄：那經費要從哪裡來？"],["李主任委員進勇：罷免案的經費沒有辦法編入年度的預算，因為有沒有、有多少都不知道，所以……"],["許委員宇甄：所以我請教你罷免案的經費會從哪裡來。"],["李主任委員進勇：所以向來罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動支第二預備金。"],["許委員宇甄：所以罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金，是嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["許委員宇甄：也就是我們俗稱的救命錢，是嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金。"],["許委員宇甄：就是第二預備金嘛？"],["李主任委員進勇：第二預備金。"],["許委員宇甄：好。我再跟主委請教一下，大家都知道中選會就是一個中立的國家選務機關，上次我在詢問您的時候，主委特別提到國民黨有涉入組織性的犯罪，其實您不是政治評論員，也不是執政黨的打手，講這樣子好像國民黨就是鋪天蓋地的組織犯罪，說得好像只要有3個人以上就可以從事某項政治活動。我現在要提醒你，法律不能雙標，政治更不能雙標。我們可以看一下，最近很有名與民進黨直接相關的共諜案已經陸續地爆出下列的名單：有立法院前院長游錫堃的助理盛礎纓、有總統府辦公室的國安諮議吳尚雨、有民進黨中央黨部的民主學院副主任邱世元、有新北市民進黨籍市議員李余典的特助黃取榮及外交部長吳釗燮任內的助理何仁傑，所以這些人都不是泛泛之輩，也不是無黨無派，都是民進黨的黨員，分別擔任黨務幹部、府會的機要、黨工職的助理。所以如果依照組織犯罪防制條例第二條的定義，只要三人以上涉犯五年以上的本罪，即可認定為組織犯罪。請教主委，民進黨這一連串涉共諜的情資，是不是已經具備組織性、結構性？如果依你給國民黨貼的標籤來看，民進黨是不是更符合組織性的犯罪？"],["李主任委員進勇：第一點跟委員報告的是，我上次答復委員質詢的時候，所用的詞應該是組織性的犯罪……"],["許委員宇甄：組織性的犯罪，對啊！"],["李主任委員進勇：跟組織犯罪……"],["許委員宇甄：所以我現在請教您，依照剛剛講的這些人，是不是民進黨更符合您所謂的組織性的犯罪？"],["李主任委員進勇：第二點跟委員報告的是，我上次之所以講出那樣子的話，其實我內心是有糾結的，為什麼我內心糾結？因為那個事件牽涉到的是中選會作為捍衛人民參政權，而這個參政權受到傷害的時候，我才講出……"],["許委員宇甄：主委，不管你有沒有糾結，都不該從您口中說出這樣子的一個……其實我相信你看到一般的這個言論，大家都看到，是非常地失職又失格，這不該是一個獨立、中立的中選會主委該講出的話。"],["李主任委員進勇：如果有時間，我會再跟委員做更進一層的說明。第三點，針對您的問題……"],["許委員宇甄：我剛剛請教您的是，民進黨的共諜案，您認不認為更符合您所謂的組織性犯罪？"],["李主任委員進勇：那個跟我要捍衛的中選會的價值無關，所以我就不便評論。"],["許委員宇甄：所以在這邊告訴李進勇主委，其實您上次的發言非常失職又失格，我相信您也感受到了全體人民對您的疑問，我想身為民進黨中選會的主委，您不是民進黨的主委而已……"],["李主任委員進勇：我想我對於我執行……"],["許委員宇甄：您是整個中選會的主委，希望您要秉持中立、公正、公開的方式，不要辦藍不辦綠，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：對於執行我們的選務，中立地執行、依法來辦選務……"],["許委員宇甄：主委，因為時間的關係……"],["李主任委員進勇：我深具信心，我的團隊深具信心。"],["許委員宇甄：我想要請您先回座，我想請教陸委會邱主委，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席（張委員宏陸）：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：邱主委好。我想請教一下，之前您受訪有提到說民進黨政府以保防清查為名，擴大針對軍公教進行中國身分證跟居住證的清查，您接受媒體的專訪有提到說，到4月底已經有37萬人完成具結，其中有2人持有中國身分證，有75人持有中國居住證，這個數字我想對大家來說都很震驚，因為在我們的軍公教體系居然有這麼多人是有居住證、有中國身分證，請問一下邱主委，那2位擁有中國身分證的軍公教人員在哪個單位任職？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，確實這2位有中國身分證的同仁，經過我們的協助，依照兩岸條例第九條之一第二項，我們認為是一個特殊案件，所以他可以保留我們國人的身分，協助他已經註銷放棄了……"],["許委員宇甄：好，我剛剛問您的……"],["邱主任委員垂正：當時候都是他主動……"],["許委員宇甄：我剛剛問你的是他在哪個單位任職，他有沒有涉及有關機密的業務？"],["邱主任委員垂正：目前都已排除。"],["許委員宇甄：都已排除就是曾經涉及囉？"],["邱主任委員垂正：都已排除了，現在。"],["許委員宇甄：那就是有涉及整個機密的業務，是嗎？因為已排除，代表曾經涉及嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["許委員宇甄：是這樣嗎？邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：相關的機關已經把它排除掉了。"],["許委員宇甄：相關的機關是什麼機關？"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員我們不方便在這邊說。"],["許委員宇甄：好，那你私底下告訴我，但是我想剛剛主委的答案已經告訴我們，他們曾經涉及機密的業務，現在已經排除嘛！另外還有75個擁有居住證的又是在哪些單位、有沒有接觸到機密的業務？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想我們為什麼要做清查跟宣導，還有通過一個專案讓大家來具結，就是讓各個機關透過清查的作業當中，我們能夠瞭解……"],["許委員宇甄：好，所以你是用專案協助註銷、具結，對不對？那請問一下……"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，如果他未來是公務人員，對於我們國家有忠誠義務的話，我們一定要協助他註銷。"],["許委員宇甄：主委，您一定要徹查清楚，因為剛剛不管是那2個擁有身分證或是75位擁有居住權的，他們的業務是不是有涉及機密……"],["邱主任委員垂正：這我們會來清查。"],["許委員宇甄：不是只是一句已排除就可以處理的，一定要先嚴格地查到底有多少的業務機密已經被洩漏出去。另外針對您這樣講的話，之前針對1萬2,000名的陸配發出的通知，要求他補繳除籍證明，是不是就可以比照來幫他們專案協助去處理呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，跟委員報告，因為我們過去在2004年3月1號實施的兩岸條例之前已經取得臺灣身分，由於他們年紀可能比較資深，我們就做了很多完整的配套措施跟替代方案，現在……"],["許委員宇甄：你現在有4項替代的措施嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：不只，可以用替代方案有6個標準，另外還有可以延展時間的有3套類型，我們盡全力協助這些有需要的……"],["許委員宇甄：希望標準要一致啦，好嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：有。"],["許委員宇甄：因為陸配嫁來我們這邊這麼久，他都擁有我們的身分證，其實他就是我們的家人、就是我們的國民，希望標準要一致。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們希望他在身分上都是不被人家質疑，都是合法，在合法的前提，他未來才能夠安居樂業。"],["許委員宇甄：合法的前提不要造成民怨啦，不要造成他們的困擾。"],["邱主任委員垂正：不會，我們都全力協助他們。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：請高金素梅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-19","speakers":["張宏陸","王美惠","張智倫","許宇甄","高金素梅","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","吳琪銘","黃建賓","丁學忠","李柏毅","黃捷","王鴻薇","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-05-12"],"gazette_id":"1144901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議（含秘密會議）紀錄","content":"一、處理114年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算解凍案；二、處理114年度中央政府\n總預算有關不當黨產處理委員會預算解凍案；三、處理、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關中央\n選舉委員會及所屬預算解凍案；四、處理114年度中央政府總預算有關大陸委員會預算解凍案；\n五、處理、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關客家委員會及所屬預算解凍案","agenda_id":"1144901_00004"}}}