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\"end\": 655.859, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 655.859, \"end\": 656.019, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 656.019, \"end\": 656.279, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 656.279, \"end\": 656.419, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 656.419, \"end\": 656.439, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 656.439, \"end\": 656.459, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,485 --> 00:00:08,079\n好謝謝主席還有會主委有請好請館處委\n\n2\n00:00:17,097 --> 00:00:42,653\n委員好主委早安我們之前討論海巡屬雷格凍結的預算其實裡面有一個非常重要的理由就是在於有關於人力的增補我們都知道海巡其實這幾年幾乎變成所謂的第二海軍擔負海防的重任那您在各式各樣的報告新聞也好其實也都在在強調海巡的重要性甚至我們在上個禮拜通過的紀念日及節日條例裡面我們都還寫海巡節對不對\n\n3\n00:00:45,695 --> 00:01:01,631\n所以說我們都非常重視海巡同仁的這個工作待遇喔那我看了一下你們這個解凍的專案報告的一些內容當然啦就是說有談要如何來增加這個海巡人力的增補嘛當然之前我們提質疑並且討論的時候就有講嘛就是說\n\n4\n00:01:02,772 --> 00:01:20,883\n你本來就有規劃從111年開始用五年為期要逐年來增補一萬三千多名的員額缺口嘛是不是但是按照現在來講是補足而不是有一萬多個缺口是一萬多人啊但是還有缺口對不對但是按照你的執行我更正一下按照你的那個數字111年還有571位112年848位113年1272位所以這個缺口不但沒有縮小反而越來越大\n\n5\n00:01:31,730 --> 00:01:53,198\n所以我們那時候才提了所謂的預算凍結案就希望說你有提出一套完整的配套措施可以來改善這樣的問題嘛對不對那我看了你專案報告裡面的一些內容當然有提了一些方法但是沒有把具體的數字寫出來本期是覺得比較可惜的你們預期啊這個114年你們可以補到多少人這個缺口有沒有辦法縮小你們心中預期的數字是多少\n\n6\n00:01:53,758 --> 00:02:14,592\n公務員報告我們的原額的缺口其中有一個部分440個原額是即將要由國防部由義務役來給我們補足以海巡目前來講的話最主要的人力的缺口是在岸巡所以岸巡主要都是軍職而且都是義務役\n\n7\n00:02:15,493 --> 00:02:41,625\n因此在義務役全面徵兵恢復了以後我們全面招募的情況之下我們已經取得了有440個元額可以來挹注我們海巡那這個部分對於缺口是很有幫助的那另外就是說我們今年開始的加薪也已經很明顯的看到我們甚至於有一些離職的同仁都很希望能夠回流\n\n8\n00:02:42,165 --> 00:02:56,233\n所以今年在這個數字我們希望會有比較好的成果所以你現在按你111年的五年計劃嘛就是你目標達成13,091名的原額目標嘛對不對那今年是114年你現在的數字是多少\n\n9\n00:02:57,045 --> 00:03:21,643\n我們現有是一萬一千七百多名一萬一千七嘛所以還差一千多對不對一千接近兩千左右嘛然後妳剛剛講補四百嘛那剩下一千五呢但是我們的離退率會下降然後我們今年也會有招募的成果那今年到目前為止的招募的成果我目前還在等海巡做一個記報過來是不是那個署長今天來你們旁邊幕僚可不可以要說明一下好來我們請署長說明\n\n10\n00:03:24,015 --> 00:03:37,894\n根據近三年的自營士兵禁用我們是逐年增加的那退損的部分人員逐年減少也就是說我們現在招募的成效是比退損的是好的\n\n11\n00:03:38,314 --> 00:04:00,646\n那所以預估我們未來的這個人員補足部分啦是再過一兩年我們就可以全部把它補足另外這中間有一部分的是那個艦艇的艦隊分組艦艇的人員那這個部分是根據他交艦的情形期程不同那我們會跟人事長做其實我要聽的就是實際上的數字嘛你115年的目標是13091嘛那你114年會是多少115年會是多少其實就這樣子而已啊你們有辦法給出這樣的數字嗎\n\n12\n00:04:07,792 --> 00:04:33,793\n關乎預算能不能順利解凍因為我們就是要明確嘛其實就是監督嘛對不對來主委114年的話預計是多少我們希望你剛剛有明確講一個400多我覺得很OK但是其他的咧我們以111年的退損跟113年的退損來講的話我們的退損已經減少了20%你不要再跟我講別人你跟我講那個到底會補多少就好\n\n13\n00:04:34,193 --> 00:04:42,896\n好你如果現在因為你說你要等季報對不對你趕快回去蒐集一下但你趕快再因為我們今天開會還要討論解凍趕快把書面補上來好不好我想除了這440個元我們的離退率有改善就是你剛剛講的離退率的結論我們算一個數字來對你要算一個簡單的數字嘛也就是說114年是多少115年可以達到13,091嘛\n\n14\n00:04:54,360 --> 00:05:06,093\n我們當然目標值是13,148但是我們希望能夠補足這個剩下來的對嘛我就是要知道你逐年補打算補多少能補到多少我數字最後會算給委員好再來我要問第二個問題是\n\n15\n00:05:08,756 --> 00:05:30,374\n現在不管是軍職或者是警職其實在待遇的部分其實都是用授權條款的方式來處理但我相信管主委也知道這過去我在質詢的時候也提過現在大院裡面有在討論這個軍人待遇條例要做修正也就是說所有的志願役未來可能都會一致來做大幅的加薪當然就是可以強化軍職人員入這個大家投身軍旅的這個待遇嘛\n\n16\n00:05:30,814 --> 00:05:54,717\n那我想這個對於軍職人員來說是很大的一個振奮對不對那問題又要來了嘛因為海巡狀況比較特殊嘛我軍警文都有那我們現在先以內外情來分大概外情部分以軍職跟警職為主如果這個軍人待遇條例順利的在大院修正通過是不是軍職的待遇會大幅上升加兩萬加三萬等等會有一個調升那請問警職海巡會不會出現相對剝奪感\n\n17\n00:05:56,034 --> 00:06:19,427\n跟委員報告我們在僅職的福利的部分其實晚期我們也已經爭取到兩個加級很有可能要被核定那因為現在正在走程序我就比較不便對外來說明那除此以外呢我們還有一個僅僅加級的部分是三十幾年沒有調整過那這個部分也是我們下個階段要來跟行政總署溝通的一個很重要的一個品\n\n18\n00:06:19,867 --> 00:06:41,102\n所以我現在要問你的問題就是比你講的要更深水區因為過去在授權的時候你行政院之前也幫志願役調過戰鬥加急對不對但因為他沒有辦法一體施用就產生了很多混亂現在是有可能我們在這個部分有進展有可能會有你今天聽我把話講完就是說現在有可能是軍人待遇條例會有一個明定所有志願役可能加2萬或3萬這樣子的一個數字對不對\n\n19\n00:06:43,183 --> 00:07:11,849\n其實各種家籍加起來以後我們過去相當程度是所有各種不同的身份各種不同類型的家籍加總以後相當程度是有達到某種程度的平衡你現在的意思是說你譬如說以行政院他們自己調的對不對你們互相處理可以達到一個平衡但現在是有立法對不對所以立法的強度更高然後針對軍人會更高這對你海巡軍職人員是有幫忙的但是海巡警職人員那我們是不是也要比照辦理我現在問你這個的意見\n\n20\n00:07:13,314 --> 00:07:33,761\n很難說比照辦理因為加擠的項目不一樣所以剛剛我跟委員講的有兩項是用在緊實同仁身上的那我們晚近的溝通已經有成果目前在走程序那第三項就是緊情加擠我們如果能夠在緊情加擠的部分三十幾年沒有調也再度調整的話相當程度之間的落差就比較不會差\n\n21\n00:07:34,841 --> 00:07:55,449\n你的意思是說你這三項對不對按照你的試算結果加上去之後會跟也許通過的軍人待遇條例會一樣嗎會對稱嗎目前我們在海上的待遇的總體跟在陸域待遇的總體海上就比較高了我不是問你海上跟陸上是軍職跟警職的待遇會不會差很多海上就是警職陸上就是軍職居多所以你認為說不會出現相對剝奪感嗎但是前提是你剛剛講那三項加薪要通過嘛對不對\n\n22\n00:08:02,091 --> 00:08:07,393\n目前有兩項已經有共識在走進去另外一項緊急加急我們持續再溝通那你這三項我簡單做個小結論海上加急已經調過了海上加急的部分我簡單做個結論就是說你現在\n\n23\n00:08:22,279 --> 00:08:43,767\n在你可以授權的範圍內你做了若干的努力對不對所以可能有幾項有達成共識但是還有一項緊緊加緊我要問的問題是這三項加起來跟可能通過軍人待遇你認為不會有落差我再跟你確認一次跟主席報告我們本來喔在海上就會比在陸上所以再多一點是是是是你這樣好那那我再來就要再追問你這三項最後可以拍板上路的時間是什麼\n\n24\n00:08:46,434 --> 00:09:06,310\n我們公開行政程序前兩項目前在走行政程序那因為他跟軍職的專業的這個家綺呢要一起來處理所以到時候可能就看人總走這個行政院的程序因為我是覺得你們如果對基層弟兄要好其實也沒有必要什麼保密到家但是齊成其實是最重要的嘛\n\n25\n00:09:06,530 --> 00:09:31,068\n我要抓的是時間是什麼主要談的跟國防部在一起的是戰航管家級戰航管家級會調因為今天的時間比較短你可能會很難講清楚一樣這個比照剛剛你有一個缺額的逐年補足的這樣子的一個KPI這是第一個第二個你相對來講幫海巡的軍警職如何來提升待遇如何來做平衡他的期程是什麼好不好你一樣會後你要補報告來喔\n\n26\n00:09:32,789 --> 00:09:55,002\n會但是我跟委員報告我們海巡整體來講目前是處在士氣非常高昂的階段所以福利是一個問題沒有錯他們都知道長官有盡力在幫他們爭取而且委員也都很支持能夠提升待遇我相信不管是你做委還有會主委或是我們做立法委我們都會支持但是我就希望這件事情明確然後它可以落地嘛\n\n27\n00:09:55,342 --> 00:10:14,418\n對不對因為我之所以這麼急著要這份資料是萬一軍人待遇條例通過萬一出現落差然後你行政機關沒有辦法用授權條款去處理這個問題的時候我可能我這邊就要啟動警察這邊我就要再修法啦對不對但到底你能不能做到我會給行政機關時間嘛但是你要明確的可以講出你到底調生了多少哪些人受惠了\n\n28\n00:10:14,778 --> 00:10:36,329\n平不平衡有沒有辦法讓警察人員也一樣得到好的待遇就這樣而已最主要是合理化最主要是合理化而不是說比較啊剝奪感啊我比較不希望大家到像這裡去思考數額時間好不好你這個會後提供你如果覺得說現在壓力很大你要給我個密件你讓我自己要知道也可以好不好但是你要讓我知道\n\n29\n00:10:37,009 --> 00:10:56,459\n這樣我們才知道未來我們要不要透過修法的方式來解決這個問題還是大家可以透過我們就是詢答透過溝通的方式就讓海巡的待遇提升方向都是一樣的好不好這個請主委多用點心因為我覺得把待遇弄好其實是補足一萬三千多這個讓你可以達標一萬三千多人最重要的事情嘛主委應該不反對這樣說吧好那就請主委趕快提供資料可以嗎好謝謝好請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4485\t8079\t好 謝謝主席 還有會主委有請好 請館處委\n17097\t42653\t委員好主委早安我們之前討論海巡屬雷格凍結的預算其實裡面有一個非常重要的理由就是在於有關於人力的增補我們都知道海巡其實這幾年幾乎變成所謂的第二海軍擔負海防的重任那您在各式各樣的報告新聞也好其實也都在在強調海巡的重要性甚至我們在上個禮拜通過的紀念日及節日條例裡面我們都還寫海巡節對不對\n45695\t61631\t所以說我們都非常重視海巡同仁的這個工作待遇喔那我看了一下你們這個解凍的專案報告的一些內容當然啦就是說有談要如何來增加這個海巡人力的增補嘛當然之前我們提質疑並且討論的時候就有講嘛就是說\n62772\t80883\t你本來就有規劃從111年開始用五年為期要逐年來增補一萬三千多名的員額缺口嘛是不是但是按照現在來講是補足而不是有一萬多個缺口是一萬多人啊但是還有缺口對不對但是按照你的執行我更正一下按照你的那個數字111年還有571位112年848位113年1272位所以這個缺口不但沒有縮小反而越來越大\n91730\t113198\t所以我們那時候才提了所謂的預算凍結案就希望說你有提出一套完整的配套措施可以來改善這樣的問題嘛對不對那我看了你專案報告裡面的一些內容當然有提了一些方法但是沒有把具體的數字寫出來本期是覺得比較可惜的你們預期啊這個114年你們可以補到多少人這個缺口有沒有辦法縮小你們心中預期的數字是多少\n113758\t134592\t公務員報告 我們的原額的缺口其中有一個部分 440個原額是即將要由國防部 由義務役來給我們補足以海巡目前來講的話 最主要的人力的缺口是在岸巡所以岸巡主要都是軍職 而且都是義務役\n135493\t161625\t因此在義務役全面徵兵恢復了以後我們全面招募的情況之下我們已經取得了有440個元額可以來挹注我們海巡那這個部分對於缺口是很有幫助的那另外就是說我們今年開始的加薪也已經很明顯的看到我們甚至於有一些離職的同仁都很希望能夠回流\n162165\t176233\t所以今年在這個數字我們希望會有比較好的成果所以你現在按你111年的五年計劃嘛就是你目標達成13,091名的原額目標嘛對不對那今年是114年你現在的數字是多少\n177045\t201643\t我們現有是一萬一千七百多名一萬一千七嘛 所以還差一千多對不對一千 接近兩千左右嘛然後妳剛剛講補四百嘛那剩下一千五呢但是我們的離退率會下降然後我們今年也會有招募的成果那今年到目前為止的招募的成果我目前還在等海巡做一個記報過來是不是那個署長今天來你們旁邊幕僚可不可以要說明一下好 來 我們請署長說明\n204015\t217894\t根據近三年的自營士兵禁用我們是逐年增加的那退損的部分人員逐年減少也就是說我們現在招募的成效是比退損的是好的\n218314\t240646\t那所以預估我們未來的這個人員補足部分啦是再過一兩年我們就可以全部把它補足另外這中間有一部分的是那個艦艇的艦隊分組艦艇的人員那這個部分是根據他交艦的情形期程不同那我們會跟人事長做其實我要聽的就是實際上的數字嘛你115年的目標是13091嘛那你114年會是多少115年會是多少其實就這樣子而已啊你們有辦法給出這樣的數字嗎\n247792\t273793\t關乎預算能不能順利解凍 因為我們就是要明確嘛其實就是監督嘛 對不對來 主委 114年的話預計是多少我們希望你剛剛有明確講一個400多 我覺得很OK但是其他的咧我們以111年的退損跟113年的退損來講的話我們的退損已經減少了20%你不要再跟我講別人 你跟我講那個到底會補多少就好\n274193\t282896\t好你如果現在因為你說你要等季報對不對你趕快回去蒐集一下但你趕快再因為我們今天開會還要討論解凍趕快把書面補上來好不好我想除了這440個元我們的離退率有改善就是你剛剛講的離退率的結論我們算一個數字來對你要算一個簡單的數字嘛也就是說114年是多少115年可以達到13,091嘛\n294360\t306093\t我們當然目標值是13,148但是我們希望能夠補足這個剩下來的對嘛 我就是要知道你逐年補打算補多少 能補到多少我數字最後會算給委員好 再來我要問第二個問題是\n308756\t330374\t現在不管是軍職或者是警職其實在待遇的部分其實都是用授權條款的方式來處理但我相信管主委也知道這過去我在質詢的時候也提過現在大院裡面有在討論這個軍人待遇條例要做修正也就是說所有的志願役未來可能都會一致來做大幅的加薪當然就是可以強化軍職人員入這個大家投身軍旅的這個待遇嘛\n330814\t354717\t那我想這個對於軍職人員來說是很大的一個振奮對不對那問題又要來了嘛因為海巡狀況比較特殊嘛我軍警文都有那我們現在先以內外情來分大概外情部分以軍職跟警職為主如果這個軍人待遇條例順利的在大院修正通過是不是軍職的待遇會大幅上升加兩萬加三萬等等會有一個調升那請問警職海巡會不會出現相對剝奪感\n356034\t379427\t跟委員報告我們在僅職的福利的部分其實晚期我們也已經爭取到兩個加級很有可能要被核定那因為現在正在走程序我就比較不便對外來說明那除此以外呢我們還有一個僅僅加級的部分是三十幾年沒有調整過那這個部分也是我們下個階段要來跟行政總署溝通的一個很重要的一個品\n379867\t401102\t所以我現在要問你的問題就是比你講的要更深水區因為過去在授權的時候你行政院之前也幫志願役調過戰鬥加急對不對但因為他沒有辦法一體施用就產生了很多混亂現在是有可能我們在這個部分有進展有可能會有你今天聽我把話講完就是說現在有可能是軍人待遇條例會有一個明定所有志願役可能加2萬或3萬這樣子的一個數字對不對\n403183\t431849\t其實各種家籍加起來以後我們過去相當程度是所有各種不同的身份各種不同類型的家籍加總以後相當程度是有達到某種程度的平衡你現在的意思是說你譬如說以行政院他們自己調的對不對你們互相處理可以達到一個平衡但現在是有立法對不對所以立法的強度更高然後針對軍人會更高這對你海巡軍職人員是有幫忙的但是海巡警職人員那我們是不是也要比照辦理我現在問你這個的意見\n433314\t453761\t很難說比照辦理因為加擠的項目不一樣所以剛剛我跟委員講的有兩項是用在緊實同仁身上的那我們晚近的溝通已經有成果目前在走程序那第三項就是緊情加擠我們如果能夠在緊情加擠的部分三十幾年沒有調也再度調整的話相當程度之間的落差就比較不會差\n454841\t475449\t你的意思是說你這三項對不對按照你的試算結果加上去之後會跟也許通過的軍人待遇條例會一樣嗎會對稱嗎目前我們在海上的待遇的總體跟在陸域待遇的總體海上就比較高了我不是問你海上跟陸上是軍職跟警職的待遇會不會差很多海上就是警職陸上就是軍職居多所以你認為說不會出現相對剝奪感嗎但是前提是你剛剛講那三項加薪要通過嘛對不對\n482091\t487393\t目前有兩項已經有共識在走進去另外一項緊急加急我們持續再溝通那你這三項我簡單做個小結論海上加急已經調過了海上加急的部分我簡單做個結論就是說你現在\n502279\t523767\t在你可以授權的範圍內你做了若干的努力對不對所以可能有幾項有達成共識但是還有一項緊緊加緊我要問的問題是這三項加起來跟可能通過軍人待遇你認為不會有落差我再跟你確認一次跟主席報告我們本來喔在海上就會比在陸上所以再多一點是是是是你這樣好那那我再來就要再追問你這三項最後可以拍板上路的時間是什麼\n526434\t546310\t我們公開行政程序前兩項目前在走行政程序那因為他跟軍職的專業的這個家綺呢要一起來處理所以到時候可能就看人總走這個行政院的程序因為我是覺得你們如果對基層弟兄要好其實也沒有必要什麼保密到家但是齊成其實是最重要的嘛\n546530\t571068\t我要抓的是時間是什麼主要談的跟國防部在一起的是戰航管家級戰航管家級會調因為今天的時間比較短你可能會很難講清楚一樣這個比照剛剛你有一個缺額的逐年補足的這樣子的一個KPI這是第一個第二個你相對來講幫海巡的軍警職如何來提升待遇如何來做平衡他的期程是什麼好不好你一樣會後你要補報告來喔\n572789\t595002\t會 但是我跟委員報告我們海巡整體來講目前是處在士氣非常高昂的階段所以福利是一個問題沒有錯他們都知道長官有盡力在幫他們爭取而且委員也都很支持能夠提升待遇我相信不管是你做委還有會主委或是我們做立法委我們都會支持但是我就希望這件事情明確然後它可以落地嘛\n595342\t614418\t對不對因為我之所以這麼急著要這份資料是萬一軍人待遇條例通過萬一出現落差然後你行政機關沒有辦法用授權條款去處理這個問題的時候我可能我這邊就要啟動警察這邊我就要再修法啦對不對但到底你能不能做到我會給行政機關時間嘛但是你要明確的可以講出你到底調生了多少哪些人受惠了\n614778\t636329\t平不平衡有沒有辦法讓警察人員也一樣得到好的待遇就這樣而已最主要是合理化最主要是合理化而不是說比較啊剝奪感啊我比較不希望大家到像這裡去思考數額時間好不好你這個會後提供你如果覺得說現在壓力很大你要給我個密件你讓我自己要知道也可以好不好但是你要讓我知道\n637009\t656459\t這樣我們才知道未來我們要不要透過修法的方式來解決這個問題還是大家可以透過我們就是詢答透過溝通的方式就讓海巡的待遇提升方向都是一樣的好不好這個請主委多用點心因為我覺得把待遇弄好其實是補足一萬三千多這個讓你可以達標一萬三千多人最重要的事情嘛主委應該不反對這樣說吧好那就請主委趕快提供資料可以嗎好謝謝好請\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 還有會主委有請好 請館處委\n委員好主委早安我們之前討論海巡屬雷格凍結的預算其實裡面有一個非常重要的理由就是在於有關於人力的增補我們都知道海巡其實這幾年幾乎變成所謂的第二海軍擔負海防的重任那您在各式各樣的報告新聞也好其實也都在在強調海巡的重要性甚至我們在上個禮拜通過的紀念日及節日條例裡面我們都還寫海巡節對不對\n所以說我們都非常重視海巡同仁的這個工作待遇喔那我看了一下你們這個解凍的專案報告的一些內容當然啦就是說有談要如何來增加這個海巡人力的增補嘛當然之前我們提質疑並且討論的時候就有講嘛就是說\n你本來就有規劃從111年開始用五年為期要逐年來增補一萬三千多名的員額缺口嘛是不是但是按照現在來講是補足而不是有一萬多個缺口是一萬多人啊但是還有缺口對不對但是按照你的執行我更正一下按照你的那個數字111年還有571位112年848位113年1272位所以這個缺口不但沒有縮小反而越來越大\n所以我們那時候才提了所謂的預算凍結案就希望說你有提出一套完整的配套措施可以來改善這樣的問題嘛對不對那我看了你專案報告裡面的一些內容當然有提了一些方法但是沒有把具體的數字寫出來本期是覺得比較可惜的你們預期啊這個114年你們可以補到多少人這個缺口有沒有辦法縮小你們心中預期的數字是多少\n公務員報告 我們的原額的缺口其中有一個部分 440個原額是即將要由國防部 由義務役來給我們補足以海巡目前來講的話 最主要的人力的缺口是在岸巡所以岸巡主要都是軍職 而且都是義務役\n因此在義務役全面徵兵恢復了以後我們全面招募的情況之下我們已經取得了有440個元額可以來挹注我們海巡那這個部分對於缺口是很有幫助的那另外就是說我們今年開始的加薪也已經很明顯的看到我們甚至於有一些離職的同仁都很希望能夠回流\n所以今年在這個數字我們希望會有比較好的成果所以你現在按你111年的五年計劃嘛就是你目標達成13,091名的原額目標嘛對不對那今年是114年你現在的數字是多少\n我們現有是一萬一千七百多名一萬一千七嘛 所以還差一千多對不對一千 接近兩千左右嘛然後妳剛剛講補四百嘛那剩下一千五呢但是我們的離退率會下降然後我們今年也會有招募的成果那今年到目前為止的招募的成果我目前還在等海巡做一個記報過來是不是那個署長今天來你們旁邊幕僚可不可以要說明一下好 來 我們請署長說明\n根據近三年的自營士兵禁用我們是逐年增加的那退損的部分人員逐年減少也就是說我們現在招募的成效是比退損的是好的\n那所以預估我們未來的這個人員補足部分啦是再過一兩年我們就可以全部把它補足另外這中間有一部分的是那個艦艇的艦隊分組艦艇的人員那這個部分是根據他交艦的情形期程不同那我們會跟人事長做其實我要聽的就是實際上的數字嘛你115年的目標是13091嘛那你114年會是多少115年會是多少其實就這樣子而已啊你們有辦法給出這樣的數字嗎\n關乎預算能不能順利解凍 因為我們就是要明確嘛其實就是監督嘛 對不對來 主委 114年的話預計是多少我們希望你剛剛有明確講一個400多 我覺得很OK但是其他的咧我們以111年的退損跟113年的退損來講的話我們的退損已經減少了20%你不要再跟我講別人 你跟我講那個到底會補多少就好\n好你如果現在因為你說你要等季報對不對你趕快回去蒐集一下但你趕快再因為我們今天開會還要討論解凍趕快把書面補上來好不好我想除了這440個元我們的離退率有改善就是你剛剛講的離退率的結論我們算一個數字來對你要算一個簡單的數字嘛也就是說114年是多少115年可以達到13,091嘛\n我們當然目標值是13,148但是我們希望能夠補足這個剩下來的對嘛 我就是要知道你逐年補打算補多少 能補到多少我數字最後會算給委員好 再來我要問第二個問題是\n現在不管是軍職或者是警職其實在待遇的部分其實都是用授權條款的方式來處理但我相信管主委也知道這過去我在質詢的時候也提過現在大院裡面有在討論這個軍人待遇條例要做修正也就是說所有的志願役未來可能都會一致來做大幅的加薪當然就是可以強化軍職人員入這個大家投身軍旅的這個待遇嘛\n那我想這個對於軍職人員來說是很大的一個振奮對不對那問題又要來了嘛因為海巡狀況比較特殊嘛我軍警文都有那我們現在先以內外情來分大概外情部分以軍職跟警職為主如果這個軍人待遇條例順利的在大院修正通過是不是軍職的待遇會大幅上升加兩萬加三萬等等會有一個調升那請問警職海巡會不會出現相對剝奪感\n跟委員報告我們在僅職的福利的部分其實晚期我們也已經爭取到兩個加級很有可能要被核定那因為現在正在走程序我就比較不便對外來說明那除此以外呢我們還有一個僅僅加級的部分是三十幾年沒有調整過那這個部分也是我們下個階段要來跟行政總署溝通的一個很重要的一個品\n所以我現在要問你的問題就是比你講的要更深水區因為過去在授權的時候你行政院之前也幫志願役調過戰鬥加急對不對但因為他沒有辦法一體施用就產生了很多混亂現在是有可能我們在這個部分有進展有可能會有你今天聽我把話講完就是說現在有可能是軍人待遇條例會有一個明定所有志願役可能加2萬或3萬這樣子的一個數字對不對\n其實各種家籍加起來以後我們過去相當程度是所有各種不同的身份各種不同類型的家籍加總以後相當程度是有達到某種程度的平衡你現在的意思是說你譬如說以行政院他們自己調的對不對你們互相處理可以達到一個平衡但現在是有立法對不對所以立法的強度更高然後針對軍人會更高這對你海巡軍職人員是有幫忙的但是海巡警職人員那我們是不是也要比照辦理我現在問你這個的意見\n很難說比照辦理因為加擠的項目不一樣所以剛剛我跟委員講的有兩項是用在緊實同仁身上的那我們晚近的溝通已經有成果目前在走程序那第三項就是緊情加擠我們如果能夠在緊情加擠的部分三十幾年沒有調也再度調整的話相當程度之間的落差就比較不會差\n你的意思是說你這三項對不對按照你的試算結果加上去之後會跟也許通過的軍人待遇條例會一樣嗎會對稱嗎目前我們在海上的待遇的總體跟在陸域待遇的總體海上就比較高了我不是問你海上跟陸上是軍職跟警職的待遇會不會差很多海上就是警職陸上就是軍職居多所以你認為說不會出現相對剝奪感嗎但是前提是你剛剛講那三項加薪要通過嘛對不對\n目前有兩項已經有共識在走進去另外一項緊急加急我們持續再溝通那你這三項我簡單做個小結論海上加急已經調過了海上加急的部分我簡單做個結論就是說你現在\n在你可以授權的範圍內你做了若干的努力對不對所以可能有幾項有達成共識但是還有一項緊緊加緊我要問的問題是這三項加起來跟可能通過軍人待遇你認為不會有落差我再跟你確認一次跟主席報告我們本來喔在海上就會比在陸上所以再多一點是是是是你這樣好那那我再來就要再追問你這三項最後可以拍板上路的時間是什麼\n我們公開行政程序前兩項目前在走行政程序那因為他跟軍職的專業的這個家綺呢要一起來處理所以到時候可能就看人總走這個行政院的程序因為我是覺得你們如果對基層弟兄要好其實也沒有必要什麼保密到家但是齊成其實是最重要的嘛\n我要抓的是時間是什麼主要談的跟國防部在一起的是戰航管家級戰航管家級會調因為今天的時間比較短你可能會很難講清楚一樣這個比照剛剛你有一個缺額的逐年補足的這樣子的一個KPI這是第一個第二個你相對來講幫海巡的軍警職如何來提升待遇如何來做平衡他的期程是什麼好不好你一樣會後你要補報告來喔\n會 但是我跟委員報告我們海巡整體來講目前是處在士氣非常高昂的階段所以福利是一個問題沒有錯他們都知道長官有盡力在幫他們爭取而且委員也都很支持能夠提升待遇我相信不管是你做委還有會主委或是我們做立法委我們都會支持但是我就希望這件事情明確然後它可以落地嘛\n對不對因為我之所以這麼急著要這份資料是萬一軍人待遇條例通過萬一出現落差然後你行政機關沒有辦法用授權條款去處理這個問題的時候我可能我這邊就要啟動警察這邊我就要再修法啦對不對但到底你能不能做到我會給行政機關時間嘛但是你要明確的可以講出你到底調生了多少哪些人受惠了\n平不平衡有沒有辦法讓警察人員也一樣得到好的待遇就這樣而已最主要是合理化最主要是合理化而不是說比較啊剝奪感啊我比較不希望大家到像這裡去思考數額時間好不好你這個會後提供你如果覺得說現在壓力很大你要給我個密件你讓我自己要知道也可以好不好但是你要讓我知道\n這樣我們才知道未來我們要不要透過修法的方式來解決這個問題還是大家可以透過我們就是詢答透過溝通的方式就讓海巡的待遇提升方向都是一樣的好不好這個請主委多用點心因為我覺得把待遇弄好其實是補足一萬三千多這個讓你可以達標一萬三千多人最重要的事情嘛主委應該不反對這樣說吧好那就請主委趕快提供資料可以嗎好謝謝好請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.485 --> 00:08.079\n好謝謝主席還有會主委有請好請館處委\n\n00:17.097 --> 00:42.653\n委員好主委早安我們之前討論海巡屬雷格凍結的預算其實裡面有一個非常重要的理由就是在於有關於人力的增補我們都知道海巡其實這幾年幾乎變成所謂的第二海軍擔負海防的重任那您在各式各樣的報告新聞也好其實也都在在強調海巡的重要性甚至我們在上個禮拜通過的紀念日及節日條例裡面我們都還寫海巡節對不對\n\n00:45.695 --> 01:01.631\n所以說我們都非常重視海巡同仁的這個工作待遇喔那我看了一下你們這個解凍的專案報告的一些內容當然啦就是說有談要如何來增加這個海巡人力的增補嘛當然之前我們提質疑並且討論的時候就有講嘛就是說\n\n01:02.772 --> 01:20.883\n你本來就有規劃從111年開始用五年為期要逐年來增補一萬三千多名的員額缺口嘛是不是但是按照現在來講是補足而不是有一萬多個缺口是一萬多人啊但是還有缺口對不對但是按照你的執行我更正一下按照你的那個數字111年還有571位112年848位113年1272位所以這個缺口不但沒有縮小反而越來越大\n\n01:31.730 --> 01:53.198\n所以我們那時候才提了所謂的預算凍結案就希望說你有提出一套完整的配套措施可以來改善這樣的問題嘛對不對那我看了你專案報告裡面的一些內容當然有提了一些方法但是沒有把具體的數字寫出來本期是覺得比較可惜的你們預期啊這個114年你們可以補到多少人這個缺口有沒有辦法縮小你們心中預期的數字是多少\n\n01:53.758 --> 02:14.592\n公務員報告我們的原額的缺口其中有一個部分440個原額是即將要由國防部由義務役來給我們補足以海巡目前來講的話最主要的人力的缺口是在岸巡所以岸巡主要都是軍職而且都是義務役\n\n02:15.493 --> 02:41.625\n因此在義務役全面徵兵恢復了以後我們全面招募的情況之下我們已經取得了有440個元額可以來挹注我們海巡那這個部分對於缺口是很有幫助的那另外就是說我們今年開始的加薪也已經很明顯的看到我們甚至於有一些離職的同仁都很希望能夠回流\n\n02:42.165 --> 02:56.233\n所以今年在這個數字我們希望會有比較好的成果所以你現在按你111年的五年計劃嘛就是你目標達成13,091名的原額目標嘛對不對那今年是114年你現在的數字是多少\n\n02:57.045 --> 03:21.643\n我們現有是一萬一千七百多名一萬一千七嘛所以還差一千多對不對一千接近兩千左右嘛然後妳剛剛講補四百嘛那剩下一千五呢但是我們的離退率會下降然後我們今年也會有招募的成果那今年到目前為止的招募的成果我目前還在等海巡做一個記報過來是不是那個署長今天來你們旁邊幕僚可不可以要說明一下好來我們請署長說明\n\n03:24.015 --> 03:37.894\n根據近三年的自營士兵禁用我們是逐年增加的那退損的部分人員逐年減少也就是說我們現在招募的成效是比退損的是好的\n\n03:38.314 --> 04:00.646\n那所以預估我們未來的這個人員補足部分啦是再過一兩年我們就可以全部把它補足另外這中間有一部分的是那個艦艇的艦隊分組艦艇的人員那這個部分是根據他交艦的情形期程不同那我們會跟人事長做其實我要聽的就是實際上的數字嘛你115年的目標是13091嘛那你114年會是多少115年會是多少其實就這樣子而已啊你們有辦法給出這樣的數字嗎\n\n04:07.792 --> 04:33.793\n關乎預算能不能順利解凍因為我們就是要明確嘛其實就是監督嘛對不對來主委114年的話預計是多少我們希望你剛剛有明確講一個400多我覺得很OK但是其他的咧我們以111年的退損跟113年的退損來講的話我們的退損已經減少了20%你不要再跟我講別人你跟我講那個到底會補多少就好\n\n04:34.193 --> 04:42.896\n好你如果現在因為你說你要等季報對不對你趕快回去蒐集一下但你趕快再因為我們今天開會還要討論解凍趕快把書面補上來好不好我想除了這440個元我們的離退率有改善就是你剛剛講的離退率的結論我們算一個數字來對你要算一個簡單的數字嘛也就是說114年是多少115年可以達到13,091嘛\n\n04:54.360 --> 05:06.093\n我們當然目標值是13,148但是我們希望能夠補足這個剩下來的對嘛我就是要知道你逐年補打算補多少能補到多少我數字最後會算給委員好再來我要問第二個問題是\n\n05:08.756 --> 05:30.374\n現在不管是軍職或者是警職其實在待遇的部分其實都是用授權條款的方式來處理但我相信管主委也知道這過去我在質詢的時候也提過現在大院裡面有在討論這個軍人待遇條例要做修正也就是說所有的志願役未來可能都會一致來做大幅的加薪當然就是可以強化軍職人員入這個大家投身軍旅的這個待遇嘛\n\n05:30.814 --> 05:54.717\n那我想這個對於軍職人員來說是很大的一個振奮對不對那問題又要來了嘛因為海巡狀況比較特殊嘛我軍警文都有那我們現在先以內外情來分大概外情部分以軍職跟警職為主如果這個軍人待遇條例順利的在大院修正通過是不是軍職的待遇會大幅上升加兩萬加三萬等等會有一個調升那請問警職海巡會不會出現相對剝奪感\n\n05:56.034 --> 06:19.427\n跟委員報告我們在僅職的福利的部分其實晚期我們也已經爭取到兩個加級很有可能要被核定那因為現在正在走程序我就比較不便對外來說明那除此以外呢我們還有一個僅僅加級的部分是三十幾年沒有調整過那這個部分也是我們下個階段要來跟行政總署溝通的一個很重要的一個品\n\n06:19.867 --> 06:41.102\n所以我現在要問你的問題就是比你講的要更深水區因為過去在授權的時候你行政院之前也幫志願役調過戰鬥加急對不對但因為他沒有辦法一體施用就產生了很多混亂現在是有可能我們在這個部分有進展有可能會有你今天聽我把話講完就是說現在有可能是軍人待遇條例會有一個明定所有志願役可能加2萬或3萬這樣子的一個數字對不對\n\n06:43.183 --> 07:11.849\n其實各種家籍加起來以後我們過去相當程度是所有各種不同的身份各種不同類型的家籍加總以後相當程度是有達到某種程度的平衡你現在的意思是說你譬如說以行政院他們自己調的對不對你們互相處理可以達到一個平衡但現在是有立法對不對所以立法的強度更高然後針對軍人會更高這對你海巡軍職人員是有幫忙的但是海巡警職人員那我們是不是也要比照辦理我現在問你這個的意見\n\n07:13.314 --> 07:33.761\n很難說比照辦理因為加擠的項目不一樣所以剛剛我跟委員講的有兩項是用在緊實同仁身上的那我們晚近的溝通已經有成果目前在走程序那第三項就是緊情加擠我們如果能夠在緊情加擠的部分三十幾年沒有調也再度調整的話相當程度之間的落差就比較不會差\n\n07:34.841 --> 07:55.449\n你的意思是說你這三項對不對按照你的試算結果加上去之後會跟也許通過的軍人待遇條例會一樣嗎會對稱嗎目前我們在海上的待遇的總體跟在陸域待遇的總體海上就比較高了我不是問你海上跟陸上是軍職跟警職的待遇會不會差很多海上就是警職陸上就是軍職居多所以你認為說不會出現相對剝奪感嗎但是前提是你剛剛講那三項加薪要通過嘛對不對\n\n08:02.091 --> 08:07.393\n目前有兩項已經有共識在走進去另外一項緊急加急我們持續再溝通那你這三項我簡單做個小結論海上加急已經調過了海上加急的部分我簡單做個結論就是說你現在\n\n08:22.279 --> 08:43.767\n在你可以授權的範圍內你做了若干的努力對不對所以可能有幾項有達成共識但是還有一項緊緊加緊我要問的問題是這三項加起來跟可能通過軍人待遇你認為不會有落差我再跟你確認一次跟主席報告我們本來喔在海上就會比在陸上所以再多一點是是是是你這樣好那那我再來就要再追問你這三項最後可以拍板上路的時間是什麼\n\n08:46.434 --> 09:06.310\n我們公開行政程序前兩項目前在走行政程序那因為他跟軍職的專業的這個家綺呢要一起來處理所以到時候可能就看人總走這個行政院的程序因為我是覺得你們如果對基層弟兄要好其實也沒有必要什麼保密到家但是齊成其實是最重要的嘛\n\n09:06.530 --> 09:31.068\n我要抓的是時間是什麼主要談的跟國防部在一起的是戰航管家級戰航管家級會調因為今天的時間比較短你可能會很難講清楚一樣這個比照剛剛你有一個缺額的逐年補足的這樣子的一個KPI這是第一個第二個你相對來講幫海巡的軍警職如何來提升待遇如何來做平衡他的期程是什麼好不好你一樣會後你要補報告來喔\n\n09:32.789 --> 09:55.002\n會但是我跟委員報告我們海巡整體來講目前是處在士氣非常高昂的階段所以福利是一個問題沒有錯他們都知道長官有盡力在幫他們爭取而且委員也都很支持能夠提升待遇我相信不管是你做委還有會主委或是我們做立法委我們都會支持但是我就希望這件事情明確然後它可以落地嘛\n\n09:55.342 --> 10:14.418\n對不對因為我之所以這麼急著要這份資料是萬一軍人待遇條例通過萬一出現落差然後你行政機關沒有辦法用授權條款去處理這個問題的時候我可能我這邊就要啟動警察這邊我就要再修法啦對不對但到底你能不能做到我會給行政機關時間嘛但是你要明確的可以講出你到底調生了多少哪些人受惠了\n\n10:14.778 --> 10:36.329\n平不平衡有沒有辦法讓警察人員也一樣得到好的待遇就這樣而已最主要是合理化最主要是合理化而不是說比較啊剝奪感啊我比較不希望大家到像這裡去思考數額時間好不好你這個會後提供你如果覺得說現在壓力很大你要給我個密件你讓我自己要知道也可以好不好但是你要讓我知道\n\n10:37.009 --> 10:56.459\n這樣我們才知道未來我們要不要透過修法的方式來解決這個問題還是大家可以透過我們就是詢答透過溝通的方式就讓海巡的待遇提升方向都是一樣的好不好這個請主委多用點心因為我覺得把待遇弄好其實是補足一萬三千多這個讓你可以達標一萬三千多人最重要的事情嘛主委應該不反對這樣說吧好那就請主委趕快提供資料可以嗎好謝謝好請\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.485,"end":8.079,"text":"好 謝謝主席 還有會主委有請好 請館處委"},{"start":17.097,"end":42.653,"text":"委員好主委早安我們之前討論海巡屬雷格凍結的預算其實裡面有一個非常重要的理由就是在於有關於人力的增補我們都知道海巡其實這幾年幾乎變成所謂的第二海軍擔負海防的重任那您在各式各樣的報告新聞也好其實也都在在強調海巡的重要性甚至我們在上個禮拜通過的紀念日及節日條例裡面我們都還寫海巡節對不對"},{"start":45.695,"end":61.631,"text":"所以說我們都非常重視海巡同仁的這個工作待遇喔那我看了一下你們這個解凍的專案報告的一些內容當然啦就是說有談要如何來增加這個海巡人力的增補嘛當然之前我們提質疑並且討論的時候就有講嘛就是說"},{"start":62.772,"end":80.883,"text":"你本來就有規劃從111年開始用五年為期要逐年來增補一萬三千多名的員額缺口嘛是不是但是按照現在來講是補足而不是有一萬多個缺口是一萬多人啊但是還有缺口對不對但是按照你的執行我更正一下按照你的那個數字111年還有571位112年848位113年1272位所以這個缺口不但沒有縮小反而越來越大"},{"start":91.73,"end":113.198,"text":"所以我們那時候才提了所謂的預算凍結案就希望說你有提出一套完整的配套措施可以來改善這樣的問題嘛對不對那我看了你專案報告裡面的一些內容當然有提了一些方法但是沒有把具體的數字寫出來本期是覺得比較可惜的你們預期啊這個114年你們可以補到多少人這個缺口有沒有辦法縮小你們心中預期的數字是多少"},{"start":113.758,"end":134.592,"text":"公務員報告 我們的原額的缺口其中有一個部分 440個原額是即將要由國防部 由義務役來給我們補足以海巡目前來講的話 最主要的人力的缺口是在岸巡所以岸巡主要都是軍職 而且都是義務役"},{"start":135.493,"end":161.625,"text":"因此在義務役全面徵兵恢復了以後我們全面招募的情況之下我們已經取得了有440個元額可以來挹注我們海巡那這個部分對於缺口是很有幫助的那另外就是說我們今年開始的加薪也已經很明顯的看到我們甚至於有一些離職的同仁都很希望能夠回流"},{"start":162.165,"end":176.233,"text":"所以今年在這個數字我們希望會有比較好的成果所以你現在按你111年的五年計劃嘛就是你目標達成13,091名的原額目標嘛對不對那今年是114年你現在的數字是多少"},{"start":177.045,"end":201.643,"text":"我們現有是一萬一千七百多名一萬一千七嘛 所以還差一千多對不對一千 接近兩千左右嘛然後妳剛剛講補四百嘛那剩下一千五呢但是我們的離退率會下降然後我們今年也會有招募的成果那今年到目前為止的招募的成果我目前還在等海巡做一個記報過來是不是那個署長今天來你們旁邊幕僚可不可以要說明一下好 來 我們請署長說明"},{"start":204.015,"end":217.894,"text":"根據近三年的自營士兵禁用我們是逐年增加的那退損的部分人員逐年減少也就是說我們現在招募的成效是比退損的是好的"},{"start":218.314,"end":240.646,"text":"那所以預估我們未來的這個人員補足部分啦是再過一兩年我們就可以全部把它補足另外這中間有一部分的是那個艦艇的艦隊分組艦艇的人員那這個部分是根據他交艦的情形期程不同那我們會跟人事長做其實我要聽的就是實際上的數字嘛你115年的目標是13091嘛那你114年會是多少115年會是多少其實就這樣子而已啊你們有辦法給出這樣的數字嗎"},{"start":247.792,"end":273.793,"text":"關乎預算能不能順利解凍 因為我們就是要明確嘛其實就是監督嘛 對不對來 主委 114年的話預計是多少我們希望你剛剛有明確講一個400多 我覺得很OK但是其他的咧我們以111年的退損跟113年的退損來講的話我們的退損已經減少了20%你不要再跟我講別人 你跟我講那個到底會補多少就好"},{"start":274.193,"end":282.896,"text":"好你如果現在因為你說你要等季報對不對你趕快回去蒐集一下但你趕快再因為我們今天開會還要討論解凍趕快把書面補上來好不好我想除了這440個元我們的離退率有改善就是你剛剛講的離退率的結論我們算一個數字來對你要算一個簡單的數字嘛也就是說114年是多少115年可以達到13,091嘛"},{"start":294.36,"end":306.093,"text":"我們當然目標值是13,148但是我們希望能夠補足這個剩下來的對嘛 我就是要知道你逐年補打算補多少 能補到多少我數字最後會算給委員好 再來我要問第二個問題是"},{"start":308.756,"end":330.374,"text":"現在不管是軍職或者是警職其實在待遇的部分其實都是用授權條款的方式來處理但我相信管主委也知道這過去我在質詢的時候也提過現在大院裡面有在討論這個軍人待遇條例要做修正也就是說所有的志願役未來可能都會一致來做大幅的加薪當然就是可以強化軍職人員入這個大家投身軍旅的這個待遇嘛"},{"start":330.814,"end":354.717,"text":"那我想這個對於軍職人員來說是很大的一個振奮對不對那問題又要來了嘛因為海巡狀況比較特殊嘛我軍警文都有那我們現在先以內外情來分大概外情部分以軍職跟警職為主如果這個軍人待遇條例順利的在大院修正通過是不是軍職的待遇會大幅上升加兩萬加三萬等等會有一個調升那請問警職海巡會不會出現相對剝奪感"},{"start":356.034,"end":379.427,"text":"跟委員報告我們在僅職的福利的部分其實晚期我們也已經爭取到兩個加級很有可能要被核定那因為現在正在走程序我就比較不便對外來說明那除此以外呢我們還有一個僅僅加級的部分是三十幾年沒有調整過那這個部分也是我們下個階段要來跟行政總署溝通的一個很重要的一個品"},{"start":379.867,"end":401.102,"text":"所以我現在要問你的問題就是比你講的要更深水區因為過去在授權的時候你行政院之前也幫志願役調過戰鬥加急對不對但因為他沒有辦法一體施用就產生了很多混亂現在是有可能我們在這個部分有進展有可能會有你今天聽我把話講完就是說現在有可能是軍人待遇條例會有一個明定所有志願役可能加2萬或3萬這樣子的一個數字對不對"},{"start":403.183,"end":431.849,"text":"其實各種家籍加起來以後我們過去相當程度是所有各種不同的身份各種不同類型的家籍加總以後相當程度是有達到某種程度的平衡你現在的意思是說你譬如說以行政院他們自己調的對不對你們互相處理可以達到一個平衡但現在是有立法對不對所以立法的強度更高然後針對軍人會更高這對你海巡軍職人員是有幫忙的但是海巡警職人員那我們是不是也要比照辦理我現在問你這個的意見"},{"start":433.314,"end":453.761,"text":"很難說比照辦理因為加擠的項目不一樣所以剛剛我跟委員講的有兩項是用在緊實同仁身上的那我們晚近的溝通已經有成果目前在走程序那第三項就是緊情加擠我們如果能夠在緊情加擠的部分三十幾年沒有調也再度調整的話相當程度之間的落差就比較不會差"},{"start":454.841,"end":475.449,"text":"你的意思是說你這三項對不對按照你的試算結果加上去之後會跟也許通過的軍人待遇條例會一樣嗎會對稱嗎目前我們在海上的待遇的總體跟在陸域待遇的總體海上就比較高了我不是問你海上跟陸上是軍職跟警職的待遇會不會差很多海上就是警職陸上就是軍職居多所以你認為說不會出現相對剝奪感嗎但是前提是你剛剛講那三項加薪要通過嘛對不對"},{"start":482.091,"end":487.393,"text":"目前有兩項已經有共識在走進去另外一項緊急加急我們持續再溝通那你這三項我簡單做個小結論海上加急已經調過了海上加急的部分我簡單做個結論就是說你現在"},{"start":502.279,"end":523.767,"text":"在你可以授權的範圍內你做了若干的努力對不對所以可能有幾項有達成共識但是還有一項緊緊加緊我要問的問題是這三項加起來跟可能通過軍人待遇你認為不會有落差我再跟你確認一次跟主席報告我們本來喔在海上就會比在陸上所以再多一點是是是是你這樣好那那我再來就要再追問你這三項最後可以拍板上路的時間是什麼"},{"start":526.434,"end":546.31,"text":"我們公開行政程序前兩項目前在走行政程序那因為他跟軍職的專業的這個家綺呢要一起來處理所以到時候可能就看人總走這個行政院的程序因為我是覺得你們如果對基層弟兄要好其實也沒有必要什麼保密到家但是齊成其實是最重要的嘛"},{"start":546.53,"end":571.068,"text":"我要抓的是時間是什麼主要談的跟國防部在一起的是戰航管家級戰航管家級會調因為今天的時間比較短你可能會很難講清楚一樣這個比照剛剛你有一個缺額的逐年補足的這樣子的一個KPI這是第一個第二個你相對來講幫海巡的軍警職如何來提升待遇如何來做平衡他的期程是什麼好不好你一樣會後你要補報告來喔"},{"start":572.789,"end":595.002,"text":"會 但是我跟委員報告我們海巡整體來講目前是處在士氣非常高昂的階段所以福利是一個問題沒有錯他們都知道長官有盡力在幫他們爭取而且委員也都很支持能夠提升待遇我相信不管是你做委還有會主委或是我們做立法委我們都會支持但是我就希望這件事情明確然後它可以落地嘛"},{"start":595.342,"end":614.418,"text":"對不對因為我之所以這麼急著要這份資料是萬一軍人待遇條例通過萬一出現落差然後你行政機關沒有辦法用授權條款去處理這個問題的時候我可能我這邊就要啟動警察這邊我就要再修法啦對不對但到底你能不能做到我會給行政機關時間嘛但是你要明確的可以講出你到底調生了多少哪些人受惠了"},{"start":614.778,"end":636.329,"text":"平不平衡有沒有辦法讓警察人員也一樣得到好的待遇就這樣而已最主要是合理化最主要是合理化而不是說比較啊剝奪感啊我比較不希望大家到像這裡去思考數額時間好不好你這個會後提供你如果覺得說現在壓力很大你要給我個密件你讓我自己要知道也可以好不好但是你要讓我知道"},{"start":637.009,"end":656.459,"text":"這樣我們才知道未來我們要不要透過修法的方式來解決這個問題還是大家可以透過我們就是詢答透過溝通的方式就讓海巡的待遇提升方向都是一樣的好不好這個請主委多用點心因為我覺得把待遇弄好其實是補足一萬三千多這個讓你可以達標一萬三千多人最重要的事情嘛主委應該不反對這樣說吧好那就請主委趕快提供資料可以嗎好謝謝好請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":452,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時21分）謝謝主席，海委會主委有請。"],["主席：請管主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委早安。我們之前討論海巡署一個凍結的預算，其實裡面有一個非常重要的理由就是有關於人力的增補，我們都知道海巡其實這幾年幾乎變成所謂的第二海軍，擔負海防的重任。您在各式各樣的報告、新聞也好，也都再再強調海巡的重要性，甚至我們在上個禮拜通過的紀念日及節日實施條例裡面都還有寫海巡節，對不對？所以我們都非常重視海巡同仁的工作待遇。我看了一下你們解凍專案報告的一些內容，當然有談要如何增加海巡人力的增補，但之前我們提質疑並且討論的時候就有講，你本來就有規劃從111年開始，以5年為期，要逐年增補一萬三千多名的員額缺口，是不是？但是按照現在來講……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是補足，而不是有一萬多個缺口。"],["牛委員煦庭：是一萬多人，但是還有缺口，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，要補足。對，有缺口。"],["牛委員煦庭：按照你的數字，111年還有571位，112年848位，113年1,272位，這個缺口不但沒有縮小反而越來越大，所以我們那時候才提了所謂的預算凍結案，就是希望你提出一套完整的配套措施，可以來改善這樣的問題嘛，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：我看了你專案報告裡面的一些內容，當然有提了一些方法，但是沒有把具體的數字寫出來，本席是覺得比較可惜的，你們預期114年可以補到多少人？這個缺口有沒有辦法縮小？你們心中預期的數字是多少？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，我們員額的缺口其中有一個部分440個員額是即將要由國防部、由義務役給我們補足……"],["牛委員煦庭：軍人的部分。"],["管主任委員碧玲：以海巡目前來講的話，最主要的人力缺口是在岸巡，所以岸巡主要都是軍職，而且都是義務役，因此在義務役全面徵兵恢復了以後，在全面招募的情況之下，我們已經取得了440個員額可以來挹注海巡，這個部分對於缺口是很有幫助的。另外，我們今年開始的加薪也已經很明顯的看到成效，甚至於有一些離職的同仁都很希望能夠回流，所以今年這個數字我們希望會有比較好的成果。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以現在按你111年的5年計畫，就是達成1萬3,091名的員額目標，對不對？今年是114年，你現在的數字是多少？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們現有是一萬一千七百多名。"],["牛委員煦庭：一萬一千七，所以還差一千多，對不對？一千多接近兩千左右嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，我們補足了這440個員額……"],["牛委員煦庭：然後你剛剛講補400，那剩下的1,500呢？"],["管主任委員碧玲：補440個，但是我們的離退率會下降，然後我們今年也會有招募的成果，今年到目前為止的招募成果還在等海巡做一個季報過來，是不是署長……"],["牛委員煦庭：來，旁邊幕僚可不可以說明一下？"],["管主任委員碧玲：好，我們請署長說明。"],["張副主任委員忠龍：跟委員報告，根據近三年的志願士兵進用，我們是逐年增加的，退損的人員是逐年減少，也就是我們現在招募的成效比退損來說是好的，所以預估我們未來人員補足部分再過一、兩年就可以全部補足。另外，這中間有一部分是艦隊分組艦艇的人員，這是根據交艦的情形、期程不同，我們會跟人事總處……"],["牛委員煦庭：好，其實我要聽的就是實際上的數字，你們115年的目標是1萬3,091，那114年會是多少？115年會是多少？其實就這樣子而已啊！你們有辦法給出這樣的數字嗎？這關乎預算能不能順利解凍，因為我們就是要明確，其實就是監督嘛，對不對？來，主委，114年預計是多少？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們希望……"],["牛委員煦庭：你剛剛有明確講一個四百多，我覺得OK，但其他的呢？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，我們以111年的退損跟113年的退損來講的話，我們的退損已經減少了20%，所以以這樣的數字……"],["牛委員煦庭：你不要再跟我講別的，你跟我講到底會補多少就好，如果你現在……因為你說要等季報，對不對？你趕快回去蒐集一下，因為我們今天開會還要討論解凍，你趕快把書面補上來，好不好？"],["管主任委員碧玲：仔細的數字，我想除了這440個員額，我們的離退率有改善，然後再加上我們的招募以後……"],["牛委員煦庭：就是你剛剛講的離退率算完之後的結論……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們算一個數字補給委員，好不好？"],["牛委員煦庭：對，你要算一個簡單的數字，也就是114年是多少？115年可以達到1萬3,091，對不對？這樣大家就會清楚明白。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們是希望……當然目標值是1萬3,018，但是我們希望能夠補足剩下來的……"],["牛委員煦庭：對嘛，我就是要知道你逐年補、打算補多少、能補到多少嘛？"],["管主任委員碧玲：數字最後會算給委員，好不好？"],["牛委員煦庭：好。再來，我要問第二個問題，現在不管是軍職或者是警職在待遇的部分，其實都是用授權條款的方式來處理，但我相信管主委也知道，這過去我在質詢的時候也提過，現在大院裡面有在討論軍人待遇條例要做修正，也就是所有的志願役未來可能都會一致做大幅的加薪，當然就是可以強化軍職人員大家投身軍旅的待遇，我想這個對於軍職人員來說是很大一個振奮，對不對？當然問題就來了，因為海巡狀況比較特殊，軍警文都有，那我們現在先以內外勤來分，外勤部分大概是以軍職跟警職為主，如果這個軍人待遇條例順利的在大院修正通過，軍職的待遇會大幅上升，加兩萬、加三萬等等，會有一個調升，請問警職海巡會不會出現相對剝奪感？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，我們在警職福利的部分，其實晚近我們也已經爭取到兩個加給很有可能要被核定，因為現在正在走程序，我就比較不便對外來說明。除此以外，我們還有一個警勤加給的部分是三十幾年沒有調整過，這個部分也是我們下個階段要來跟人事行政總處溝通的一個很重要的項目。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，我現在要問你的是比你講得還要更深水區，因為過去在授權的時候，行政院之前也幫志願役調過戰鬥加給，但因為它沒有辦法一體適用而產生很多混亂，現在是有可能……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們在戰鬥加給有進展，尤其是戰航加給的部分。"],["牛委員煦庭：你先聽我把話講完，現在有可能是軍人待遇條例會明定所有志願役可能加兩萬或三萬這樣子的一個數字，對不對？但是以你目前……"],["管主任委員碧玲：其實各種加給加起來以後，我們過去是所有各種不同的身分、各種不同類型的加給加總以後，是有達到某種程度的平衡，但是……"],["牛委員煦庭：你現在的意思是，比如以行政院他們自己調的，你們互相處理，可以達到一個平衡，但現在是有立法，所以立法的強度更高，然後針對軍人會更高，這對海巡軍職人員是有幫忙的，但是海巡警職人員我們是不是要比照辦理，我現在問你這個的意見。"],["管主任委員碧玲：很難去比照辦理，因為加給的項目不一樣，所以剛剛我跟委員講的有兩項是用在警職同仁身上，我們晚近的溝通已經有成果，目前在走程序，第三項就是警勤加給，我們如果能夠在警勤加給的部分，三十幾年沒有調，也再度調整的話，相當程度之間的落差就比較不會增加。"],["牛委員煦庭：你的意思是這三項按照你的試算結果，加上去之後，也許跟通過的軍人待遇條例會一樣、會對稱？"],["管主任委員碧玲：以目前我們在海上待遇的總體，跟在陸域待遇的總體比起來，海上就比較高了。"],["牛委員煦庭：我不是問你海上跟陸上，是軍職跟警職的待遇會不會差很多啦？"],["管主任委員碧玲：海上就是警職，陸上就是軍職居多。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你認為不會出現相對剝奪感嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們一方面……"],["牛委員煦庭：但是前提是你剛剛講那三項加薪要通過嘛，對不對？請問具體的期程是什麼？"],["管主任委員碧玲：目前有兩項已經有共識，在走程序。"],["牛委員煦庭：兩項有共識，一項因為事涉警勤加給，還有警政署嘛，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：另外一項警勤加給我們持續在溝通。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，那你這三項……"],["管主任委員碧玲：對不起，是海上加給，警勤加給已經調過了，至於海上加給的部分，我們繼續溝通。"],["牛委員煦庭：我簡單做個結論啦，現在在你可以授權的範圍內，你做了若干的努力，所以可能有幾項有達成共識，但是還有一項海上加給，我要問的問題是，這三項加起來跟可能通過的軍人待遇比起來，你認為不會有落差？我再跟你確認一次。"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，我們本來在海上就會比在陸上高……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以會再多一點？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，我就要再追問，這三項最後可以拍板上路的時間是什麼？你要可以對在一起，這樣才公平嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們看行政程序，前兩項目前在走行政程序，因為它跟軍職專業的加給要一起來處理，所以到時候可能就看人總走這個行政院的程序……"],["牛委員煦庭：我是覺得你們如果要對基層弟兄好，也沒有必要什麼保密到家，但期程其實是最重要的嘛，我要抓時間是何時？"],["管主任委員碧玲：其實主要談的、跟國防部在一起的是戰航管加給會調，目前有共識，另外……"],["牛委員煦庭：好啦，因為今天的時間比較短，你可能很難講清楚，一樣，這個比照剛剛……"],["管主任委員碧玲：可以，我再給委員報告。"],["牛委員煦庭：你有一個缺額的、逐年補足的KPI，這是第一個。第二個，相對來講，你如何幫海巡的軍警職提升待遇？如何來做平衡？期程是什麼？一樣，會後你要補報告來喔！"],["管主任委員碧玲：會，我會補報告，但是我跟委員報告，我們海巡整體來講目前是處在士氣非常高昂的階段，所以福利是一個問題沒有錯，他們都知道長官有盡力在幫他們爭取，而且委員也都很支持，也都有在幫忙，所以整體來講……"],["牛委員煦庭：能夠提升待遇，我相信不管是你作為海委會主委或是我們立法委員，我們都會支持，但是我就希望這件事情明確然後可以落地，對不對？因為我之所以這麼急著要這份資料，就是萬一軍人待遇條例通過，萬一出現落差，然後行政機關沒有辦法用授權條款去處理這個問題的時候，可能我這邊就要啟動……警察人員條例我就要再修法啦，對不對？到底你能不能做到，我會給行政機關時間嘛，但是你要明確的可以講出你到底調升了多少？哪些人受惠了？平不平衡？有沒有辦法讓警察人員也一樣得到好的待遇，就這樣子而已。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們都有在處理，最主要是合理化，而不是說比較或講剝奪感，我比較不希望大家朝向這裡去思考。"],["牛委員煦庭：好啦，所以數額、時間，好不好？你會後提供，如果你覺得現在壓力很大，要給我個密件讓我私底下知道也可以，但是你要讓我知道，這樣我們才知道未來要不要透過修法方式來解決這個問題，還是大家可以透過我們詢答、透過溝通的方式就讓海巡的待遇提升，方向都是一樣的，好不好？請主委多用點心，因為我覺得把待遇弄好，其實是讓你可以達標補足一萬三千多人最重要的事情，主委應該不反對這樣的說法吧？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們都有在處理，請委員放心。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，那就請主委趕快提供資料，可以嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：謝謝。"],["主席：請麥玉珍委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-19","speakers":["張宏陸","王美惠","張智倫","許宇甄","高金素梅","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","吳琪銘","黃建賓","丁學忠","李柏毅","黃捷","王鴻薇","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-05-12"],"gazette_id":"1144901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議（含秘密會議）紀錄","content":"一、處理114年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算解凍案；二、處理114年度中央政府\n總預算有關不當黨產處理委員會預算解凍案；三、處理、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關中央\n選舉委員會及所屬預算解凍案；四、處理114年度中央政府總預算有關大陸委員會預算解凍案；\n五、處理、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關客家委員會及所屬預算解凍案","agenda_id":"1144901_00004"}}}