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\"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 944.198, \"end\": 944.319, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 944.319, \"end\": 944.539, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 944.539, \"end\": 944.879, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 944.879, \"end\": 944.979, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 944.979, \"end\": 944.999, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,164 --> 00:00:08,909\n主委好主委好\n\n2\n00:00:20,048 --> 00:00:42,701\n今天我是針對幾個議題而請教我們的主委我們是不是說我們學生要繳作業的時候是不是天經地義的老師要給學生打分數的時候是不是要看到作業但是學生不想給作業卻要求老師要給\n\n3\n00:00:45,743 --> 00:00:51,107\n及格還有滿分如果你是老師你覺得這樣合理嗎當然不合理當然不合理對不對你也認同嘛所以我們今天要看到陸委會的法證業務預算凍結20%條件為三個月內提出\n\n4\n00:01:08,500 --> 00:01:10,303\n兩岸協調監督條例研議進度報告應該雖然是期限內報告但不僅是陳述研議的歷程為明確提出法條的草案或版本\n\n5\n00:01:24,302 --> 00:01:39,382\n的表層所以我想要問你說自從103年起已經大家都在關注這件事情陸委會到今天仍無明確的法案的明定的版本請問這樣是什麼理由\n\n6\n00:01:42,601 --> 00:02:00,615\n跟委員報告我們在今天早上的書面報告也有很清楚的表述就是兩岸協議監督條例在當年2016年的時候那麼各黨團也有提出相關的版本但是由於爭點甚多那麼當時候未達成共識\n\n7\n00:02:03,317 --> 00:02:19,228\n另外一方面就是那時候的兩岸關係啊也不是在處理這個做焦點那我們基於在2019年元月二號那麼習五條提出兩制台灣方案我們認為有關於民主協商的這個對台灣的統戰這個比較嚴重\n\n8\n00:02:22,330 --> 00:02:37,684\n所以我們有優先去推動兩條例第五條之三有十項這個民電的條文來處理涉及到政治議題的協商我們建立了高標準高門檻的民主監督法制\n\n9\n00:02:38,385 --> 00:02:58,947\n至於您剛剛提到的非涉及政治議題的兩岸協議監督條例以我們的做法因為我們把最重要的核心的法治工作做完了那其他的部分我們認為按照現行的兩岸條例第五條規定那麼過去呢我們行政部門跟立法部門都已經完成了\n\n10\n00:02:59,508 --> 00:03:08,730\n二十六項的協議的審查跟被查的程序那麼我們也有很多的經驗所以暫無自愛所以我們會認為現階段兩岸協議監督條例暫無它的急迫性跟必要性但是我們也認為因為這個涉及國會監督的權限\n\n11\n00:03:22,293 --> 00:03:42,369\n幾位幾位我要問你的東西不是你要問你的東西你回我不是回答的是你其他的業務我們問的是說因為我看到你的報告中還有沒有看到任何具體法案內容的草案還有就是說請持續以行政演繹\n\n12\n00:03:47,333 --> 00:03:52,879\n言商難道只會是言喻再言商再協商再言商我看到裡面的事這樣子不像你現在說的我們時間可限因為我們就\n\n13\n00:04:01,889 --> 00:04:06,331\n6分鐘6個單位我問你已經超過多少分鐘了你報告的我要問你但是你的資料沒有齊全啊所以說要版本解凍但是你講的跟你你給我們的報告裡面多寫說在延伤在延益所以我們沒有看到啊我們給你3個月但是你講的\n\n14\n00:04:25,462 --> 00:04:35,806\n你要我們提出版本我們有研議我們認為現階段先沒有急後期跟必要性明確的版本啦不要一直在研議研商已經三個月了沒有隊長他跟我們講是請我們研議並不是要我們提出來所以我們一直認為如果有需要的話\n\n15\n00:04:43,489 --> 00:05:11,204\n應該是由立法院從國會的角度來提審查我們由行政部門來說來審查的強度這個似乎已經第九屆第十屆都有其他委員提出到現在為止我們黨部很重視這個也教你提出但是你的報告裡面就是言商言議在言議所以已經三個月了我們認為現行的法制作業以足以來處理這一塊\n\n16\n00:05:14,146 --> 00:05:29,600\n所以說我們今天是要來解凍你的法案你沒有報告你的法案也沒有寫我們的法案這樣就叫我們怎麼樣給你解凍呢所以說如果是這樣的案如果委員要提出我們尊重我們也提供我們的意見\n\n17\n00:05:31,301 --> 00:05:39,225\n對不對是不是這樣子的意思所以我覺得你真的沒有提出我們要求的我們是要求的解凍的案你就是要把解凍的案來去做報告說明還有說有明確的不是說你講其他的業務其他業務給你三天三夜講不完我們的看法以及我們整體的評估作業\n\n18\n00:05:53,573 --> 00:06:02,841\n同時我們也跟委員報告但是我們要求的看法要求的我們需要的你沒有去講啊我們問A要叫你解剖我們本息你要給我們提出行政院版本的兩岸協議監督條例我們經過非常認真的評估認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性如果委員你要來提出的話我們會尊重我們也會到時候\n\n19\n00:06:17,153 --> 00:06:30,782\n提供我們的意見所以我們要求的就是你認為不要就是不用解凍我們認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性所以這樣你就是不要我們要求的你覺得不要所以我們就不用解凍但是你們交付我們評估的我們很認真報數我聽起來是這樣好\n\n20\n00:06:34,444 --> 00:06:54,128\n所以因為時間的關係但是呢因為我們有六個單位我們主席一定要讓我們最少要問到三個吧不能說六分鐘就是就變成一個單位沒有解釋清楚沒有做清楚就沒有了好我們接下來我想要請教一下我們的海洋委員會的我們的主委\n\n21\n00:07:03,407 --> 00:07:09,031\n委員好好主委好因為我們的業務費預算凍結了30%了就是等於說我們的海洋政策的整體推動欠缺效果我們的海委會內執行的計畫協同不足等於是質疑所以其實我們解凍報告卻有說\n\n22\n00:07:27,506 --> 00:07:34,091\n參與會議等空泛的文字作為就是效果的呈現所以這些會議的實質產出為何如何促成具體法案或個跨部會的政策的推動是否有量化的指標或者比如說新進計劃的執行或者政策執行的實效還有縮短的效率等等所以可以說明一下嗎\n\n23\n00:07:57,069 --> 00:08:15,889\n各位委員報告如果說我們沒有在8月以前完成解凍的話我們大概所有的包括業務費跟一般基本的運作到8月份的時候我們大概就會遇到非常非常重大的困難我們現在就是有辦法維持到8月份那8月份以後就會遇到非常重大的困難\n\n24\n00:08:16,670 --> 00:08:39,022\n所以我們很希望說能夠盡速給予我們來解凍那因為到八月份的時候各項的包括本會包括所有的附屬機關我們的執行率都會達到95%以上所以在這個部分我們有時間上的急迫性因此很希望我們這一次的解凍能夠得到委員的支持\n\n25\n00:08:40,330 --> 00:08:55,351\n所以我們今天才要來說來審查來解凍希望說我們提出有具體的嘛這樣子我們才能是解凍因為給我們就是三天三天讓我們去看\n\n26\n00:08:56,192 --> 00:09:23,892\n所以呢我們如果資料不齊全我們就問的時間又那麼短缺所以我們希望說開會的理由還有說的介紹的依據還有說我們那麼認真大家就是希望把它解凍嘛我們一直來我都幫你額略了全部會你就不會去講一些有的沒有的認真去做事的人所以我們就監督在野黨的委員就是無法要\n\n27\n00:09:25,333 --> 00:09:25,553\n各位委員\n\n28\n00:09:45,214 --> 00:09:51,015\n舉一個例子譬如說我們東沙的同仁他如果要放假的話我們現在是給他們搭飛機回來那如果說我們沒有如期來解凍的話呢他們搭飛機回來就馬上會遇到困難了那這就會影響他們休假的是啊所以我們現在就是要積極來解凍嘛我們的書面報告朝委才安排就是一天就六個案就是因為就是要搓營銷飛車了嘛還不是要想要解凍嗎\n\n29\n00:10:16,142 --> 00:10:24,385\n你這樣講我抗議喔不是我們解凍就是要一起嘛所以說想要更清楚我們才會說我們要讓這個費用趕快解凍讓大家去做嘛好再來我們就問接下來說我們的海巡業務費這樣子的凍結也是30%我們報告裡面就是說完成\n\n30\n00:10:41,451 --> 00:11:05,139\n演训练的就是很多的场次但是我们办理教育训练的装备添购但我们必须要追问的是说我们教育训练场次是否是人数是否的那个预算还有就是规模有没有相符训练后的成效或者评估有这样子的报告\n\n31\n00:11:05,919 --> 00:11:07,440\n因為我們要解凍就要了解嘛所以說我們的裝備要購買還有說公開採購的程序有沒有時機交付投入的這樣子的運用所以因為我們\n\n32\n00:11:21,369 --> 00:11:38,223\n報告裡面是沒有看到我們的採購都是公開採購我們一定都走公開採購的程序因為目前報告裡面沒有看到走證的資料所以說想要再確認有沒有具體的因為委員關心了以後我們有準備一個我們公開採購的項目的報告我們會後再給委員\n\n33\n00:11:44,628 --> 00:11:52,584\n好這樣就麻煩我們主委再來最後一分鐘我想要問一下我們的那個中選會我們請\n\n34\n00:12:07,182 --> 00:12:21,287\n我想要請教一下我們有針對就是裡面就一個小項而已基本行政作業維護就是維持費就是說一般事務費編列了759萬4千多其中凍結了10%但是當解凍報告裡面聲稱說以\n\n35\n00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:57,315\n預算編列原則與節約的規定使用但是我們在說明具體的時候沒有看到就是支出的明細還有績效的效果我們看到的就是依據你寫的最大的目標就是說列為合理編列就是合理的\n\n36\n00:12:58,356 --> 00:13:12,032\n編列合理就是這四個字就可以能解凍就是形同我們就是就形式的審查而已因為我們這個案子其中就是有我們的有七\n\n37\n00:13:14,295 --> 00:13:20,438\n75萬我們只有結凍說75萬的就是選務的設備精進或者系統的就是資訊的系統安全更新等重要的業務但是我們沒有看到具體的投入啦所以這個部分我們希望說我們的中選會這邊有比較具體一點我們才知道因為我們已經在今天\n\n38\n00:13:42,148 --> 00:13:46,891\n我們要給大家的是三個月來去寫解凍的報告我們給各個部會是三個月但是今天我們給我們的資料只有三天還有我們要有教授只有六分鐘來去問各個部會\n\n39\n00:14:04,542 --> 00:14:12,486\n但是我們看到一張紙就是一億兩張兩億三張三億所以我們政府的預算就是這樣子審查的嗎所以我們希望各個部會真真的這個都是都是我們血汗錢我們解凍不應該刑事審查所以是應該要有效率的展現各部會應該是依據我們要求的就是\n\n40\n00:14:34,395 --> 00:14:40,999\n凍結的要有具體的來去說明所以我們已經沒時間了大家都在加班來去看了但是看你們要給我們的資料就讓我們很失望所以說因為時間的關係我們希望說大家就是有具體的再來給我們因為今天就一天這樣子去解決我覺得真的我們在把關在審查我們的預算真的是太\n\n41\n00:15:03,677 --> 00:15:07,558\n我們在做社團的在每一個社團要去爭取經費兩萬塊就要去說明還要去報告但是我們一張說明就一億我們沒辦法接受這個部分我們再請我們各部會再來去真真的是把所有的計畫真的具體讓我們了解讓我們真的是知識才不會造成後面\n\n42\n00:15:33,686 --> 00:15:44,999\n再花一筆錢這樣子到最後變成什麼再來怪像怪我們沒有審查還是怪你們亂花所以這個就是我的要求以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5164\t8909\t主委好主委好\n20048\t42701\t今天我是針對幾個議題而請教我們的主委我們是不是說我們學生要繳作業的時候是不是天經地義的老師要給學生打分數的時候是不是要看到作業但是學生不想給作業卻要求老師要給\n45743\t51107\t及格還有滿分如果你是老師你覺得這樣合理嗎當然不合理當然不合理對不對 你也認同嘛所以我們今天要看到陸委會的法證業務預算凍結20%條件為三個月內提出\n68500\t70303\t兩岸協調監督條例研議進度報告應該雖然是期限內報告但不僅是陳述研議的歷程為明確提出法條的草案或版本\n84302\t99382\t的表層所以我想要問你說自從103年起已經大家都在關注這件事情陸委會到今天仍無明確的法案的明定的版本請問這樣是什麼理由\n102601\t120615\t跟委員報告我們在今天早上的書面報告也有很清楚的表述就是兩岸協議監督條例在當年2016年的時候那麼各黨團也有提出相關的版本但是由於爭點甚多那麼當時候未達成共識\n123317\t139228\t另外一方面就是那時候的兩岸關係啊也不是在處理這個做焦點那我們基於在2019年元月二號那麼習五條提出兩制台灣方案我們認為有關於民主協商的這個對台灣的統戰這個比較嚴重\n142330\t157684\t所以我們有優先去推動兩條例第五條之三有十項這個民電的條文來處理涉及到政治議題的協商我們建立了高標準高門檻的民主監督法制\n158385\t178947\t至於您剛剛提到的非涉及政治議題的兩岸協議監督條例以我們的做法因為我們把最重要的核心的法治工作做完了那其他的部分我們認為按照現行的兩岸條例第五條規定那麼過去呢我們行政部門跟立法部門都已經完成了\n179508\t188730\t二十六項的協議的審查跟被查的程序那麼我們也有很多的經驗所以暫無自愛所以我們會認為現階段兩岸協議監督條例暫無它的急迫性跟必要性但是我們也認為因為這個涉及國會監督的權限\n202293\t222369\t幾位 幾位我要問你的東西不是你要問你的東西你回我不是回答的是你其他的業務我們問的是說因為我看到你的報告中還有沒有看到任何具體法案內容的草案還有就是說請持續以行政演繹\n227333\t232879\t言商 難道只會是言喻再言商再協商再言商我看到裡面的事這樣子不像你現在說的我們時間可限因為我們就\n241889\t246331\t6分鐘6個單位我問你已經超過多少分鐘了你報告的我要問你但是你的資料沒有齊全啊所以說要版本解凍但是你講的跟你你給我們的報告裡面多寫說在延伤在延益所以我們沒有看到啊我們給你3個月但是你講的\n265462\t275806\t你要我們提出版本我們有研議我們認為現階段先沒有急後期跟必要性明確的版本啦不要一直在研議研商已經三個月了沒有 隊長他跟我們講是請我們研議並不是要我們提出來所以我們一直認為如果有需要的話\n283489\t311204\t應該是由立法院從國會的角度來提審查我們由行政部門來說來審查的強度這個似乎已經第九屆第十屆都有其他委員提出到現在為止我們黨部很重視這個也教你提出但是你的報告裡面就是言商言議在言議所以已經三個月了我們認為現行的法制作業以足以來處理這一塊\n314146\t329600\t所以說我們今天是要來解凍你的法案你沒有報告你的法案也沒有寫我們的法案這樣就叫我們怎麼樣給你解凍呢所以說如果是這樣的案如果委員要提出我們尊重我們也提供我們的意見\n331301\t339225\t對不對 是不是這樣子的意思所以我覺得你真的沒有提出我們要求的我們是要求的解凍的案你就是要把解凍的案來去做報告說明還有說有明確的不是說你講其他的業務其他業務給你三天三夜講不完我們的看法以及我們整體的評估作業\n353573\t362841\t同時我們也跟委員報告但是我們要求的看法要求的我們需要的你沒有去講啊我們問A要叫你解剖我們本息你要給我們提出行政院版本的兩岸協議監督條例我們經過非常認真的評估認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性如果委員你要來提出的話我們會尊重我們也會到時候\n377153\t390782\t提供我們的意見所以我們要求的就是你認為不要就是不用解凍我們認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性所以這樣你就是不要我們要求的你覺得不要所以我們就不用解凍但是你們交付我們評估的我們很認真報數我聽起來是這樣好\n394444\t414128\t所以因為時間的關係但是呢因為我們有六個單位我們主席一定要讓我們最少要問到三個吧不能說六分鐘就是就變成一個單位沒有解釋清楚沒有做清楚就沒有了好我們接下來我想要請教一下我們的海洋委員會的我們的主委\n423407\t429031\t委員好好 主委好因為我們的業務費預算凍結了30%了就是等於說我們的海洋政策的整體推動 欠缺效果我們的海委會內執行的計畫協同不足等於是質疑所以其實我們解凍報告卻有說\n447506\t454091\t參與會議等空泛的文字作為就是效果的呈現所以這些會議的實質產出為何如何促成具體法案或個跨部會的政策的推動是否有量化的指標或者比如說新進計劃的執行或者政策執行的實效還有縮短的效率等等所以可以說明一下嗎\n477069\t495889\t各位委員報告如果說我們沒有在8月以前完成解凍的話我們大概所有的包括業務費跟一般基本的運作到8月份的時候我們大概就會遇到非常非常重大的困難我們現在就是有辦法維持到8月份那8月份以後就會遇到非常重大的困難\n496670\t519022\t所以我們很希望說能夠盡速給予我們來解凍那因為到八月份的時候各項的包括本會包括所有的附屬機關我們的執行率都會達到95%以上所以在這個部分我們有時間上的急迫性因此很希望我們這一次的解凍能夠得到委員的支持\n520330\t535351\t所以我們今天才要來說來審查來解凍希望說我們提出有具體的嘛這樣子我們才能是解凍因為給我們就是三天三天讓我們去看\n536192\t563892\t所以呢我們如果資料不齊全我們就問的時間又那麼短缺所以我們希望說開會的理由還有說的介紹的依據還有說我們那麼認真大家就是希望把它解凍嘛我們一直來我都幫你額略了全部會你就不會去講一些有的沒有的認真去做事的人所以我們就監督在野黨的委員就是無法要\n565333\t565553\t各位委員\n585214\t591015\t舉一個例子 譬如說我們東沙的同仁他如果要放假的話我們現在是給他們搭飛機回來那如果說我們沒有如期來解凍的話呢他們搭飛機回來就馬上會遇到困難了那這就會影響他們休假的 是啊所以我們現在就是要積極來解凍嘛我們的書面報告 朝委才安排就是一天就六個案就是因為就是要搓營銷飛車了嘛還不是要想要解凍嗎\n616142\t624385\t你這樣講我抗議喔不是 我們解凍就是要一起嘛所以說想要更清楚我們才會說我們要讓這個費用趕快解凍讓大家去做嘛好 再來我們就問接下來說我們的海巡業務費這樣子的凍結也是30%我們報告裡面就是說完成\n641451\t665139\t演训练的就是很多的场次但是我们办理教育训练的装备添购但我们必须要追问的是说我们教育训练场次是否是人数是否的那个预算还有就是规模有没有相符训练后的成效或者评估有这样子的报告\n665919\t667440\t因為我們要解凍就要了解嘛所以說我們的裝備要購買還有說公開採購的程序有沒有時機交付投入的這樣子的運用所以因為我們\n681369\t698223\t報告裡面是沒有看到我們的採購都是公開採購我們一定都走公開採購的程序因為目前報告裡面沒有看到走證的資料所以說想要再確認有沒有具體的因為委員關心了以後我們有準備一個我們公開採購的項目的報告我們會後再給委員\n704628\t712584\t好這樣就麻煩我們主委再來最後一分鐘我想要問一下我們的那個中選會我們請\n727182\t741287\t我想要請教一下我們有針對就是裡面就一個小項而已基本行政作業維護就是維持費就是說一般事務費編列了759萬4千多其中凍結了10%但是當解凍報告裡面聲稱說以\n755590\t777315\t預算編列原則與節約的規定使用但是我們在說明具體的時候沒有看到就是支出的明細還有績效的效果我們看到的就是依據你寫的最大的目標就是說列為合理編列就是合理的\n778356\t792032\t編列合理就是這四個字就可以能解凍就是形同我們就是就形式的審查而已因為我們這個案子其中就是有我們的有七\n794295\t800438\t75萬我們只有結凍說75萬的就是選務的設備精進或者系統的就是資訊的系統安全更新等重要的業務但是我們沒有看到具體的投入啦所以這個部分我們希望說我們的中選會這邊有比較具體一點我們才知道因為我們已經在今天\n822148\t826891\t我們要給大家的是三個月來去寫解凍的報告我們給各個部會是三個月但是今天我們給我們的資料只有三天還有我們要有教授只有六分鐘來去問各個部會\n844542\t852486\t但是我們看到一張紙就是一億兩張兩億三張三億所以我們政府的預算就是這樣子審查的嗎所以我們希望各個部會真真的這個都是都是我們血汗錢我們解凍不應該刑事審查所以是應該要有效率的展現各部會應該是依據我們要求的就是\n874395\t880999\t凍結的 要有具體的來去說明所以我們已經沒時間了大家都在加班來去看了但是看你們要給我們的資料就讓我們很失望所以說因為時間的關係我們希望說大家就是有具體的再來給我們 因為今天就一天這樣子去解決 我覺得真的我們在把關在審查我們的預算真的是太\n903677\t907558\t我們在做社團的在每一個社團要去爭取經費兩萬塊就要去說明還要去報告但是我們一張說明就一億我們沒辦法接受這個部分我們再請我們各部會再來去真真的是把所有的計畫真的具體讓我們了解讓我們真的是知識才不會造成後面\n933686\t944999\t再花一筆錢這樣子到最後變成什麼再來怪像怪我們沒有審查還是怪你們亂花所以這個就是我的要求以上 謝謝\n","txt":"主委好主委好\n今天我是針對幾個議題而請教我們的主委我們是不是說我們學生要繳作業的時候是不是天經地義的老師要給學生打分數的時候是不是要看到作業但是學生不想給作業卻要求老師要給\n及格還有滿分如果你是老師你覺得這樣合理嗎當然不合理當然不合理對不對 你也認同嘛所以我們今天要看到陸委會的法證業務預算凍結20%條件為三個月內提出\n兩岸協調監督條例研議進度報告應該雖然是期限內報告但不僅是陳述研議的歷程為明確提出法條的草案或版本\n的表層所以我想要問你說自從103年起已經大家都在關注這件事情陸委會到今天仍無明確的法案的明定的版本請問這樣是什麼理由\n跟委員報告我們在今天早上的書面報告也有很清楚的表述就是兩岸協議監督條例在當年2016年的時候那麼各黨團也有提出相關的版本但是由於爭點甚多那麼當時候未達成共識\n另外一方面就是那時候的兩岸關係啊也不是在處理這個做焦點那我們基於在2019年元月二號那麼習五條提出兩制台灣方案我們認為有關於民主協商的這個對台灣的統戰這個比較嚴重\n所以我們有優先去推動兩條例第五條之三有十項這個民電的條文來處理涉及到政治議題的協商我們建立了高標準高門檻的民主監督法制\n至於您剛剛提到的非涉及政治議題的兩岸協議監督條例以我們的做法因為我們把最重要的核心的法治工作做完了那其他的部分我們認為按照現行的兩岸條例第五條規定那麼過去呢我們行政部門跟立法部門都已經完成了\n二十六項的協議的審查跟被查的程序那麼我們也有很多的經驗所以暫無自愛所以我們會認為現階段兩岸協議監督條例暫無它的急迫性跟必要性但是我們也認為因為這個涉及國會監督的權限\n幾位 幾位我要問你的東西不是你要問你的東西你回我不是回答的是你其他的業務我們問的是說因為我看到你的報告中還有沒有看到任何具體法案內容的草案還有就是說請持續以行政演繹\n言商 難道只會是言喻再言商再協商再言商我看到裡面的事這樣子不像你現在說的我們時間可限因為我們就\n6分鐘6個單位我問你已經超過多少分鐘了你報告的我要問你但是你的資料沒有齊全啊所以說要版本解凍但是你講的跟你你給我們的報告裡面多寫說在延伤在延益所以我們沒有看到啊我們給你3個月但是你講的\n你要我們提出版本我們有研議我們認為現階段先沒有急後期跟必要性明確的版本啦不要一直在研議研商已經三個月了沒有 隊長他跟我們講是請我們研議並不是要我們提出來所以我們一直認為如果有需要的話\n應該是由立法院從國會的角度來提審查我們由行政部門來說來審查的強度這個似乎已經第九屆第十屆都有其他委員提出到現在為止我們黨部很重視這個也教你提出但是你的報告裡面就是言商言議在言議所以已經三個月了我們認為現行的法制作業以足以來處理這一塊\n所以說我們今天是要來解凍你的法案你沒有報告你的法案也沒有寫我們的法案這樣就叫我們怎麼樣給你解凍呢所以說如果是這樣的案如果委員要提出我們尊重我們也提供我們的意見\n對不對 是不是這樣子的意思所以我覺得你真的沒有提出我們要求的我們是要求的解凍的案你就是要把解凍的案來去做報告說明還有說有明確的不是說你講其他的業務其他業務給你三天三夜講不完我們的看法以及我們整體的評估作業\n同時我們也跟委員報告但是我們要求的看法要求的我們需要的你沒有去講啊我們問A要叫你解剖我們本息你要給我們提出行政院版本的兩岸協議監督條例我們經過非常認真的評估認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性如果委員你要來提出的話我們會尊重我們也會到時候\n提供我們的意見所以我們要求的就是你認為不要就是不用解凍我們認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性所以這樣你就是不要我們要求的你覺得不要所以我們就不用解凍但是你們交付我們評估的我們很認真報數我聽起來是這樣好\n所以因為時間的關係但是呢因為我們有六個單位我們主席一定要讓我們最少要問到三個吧不能說六分鐘就是就變成一個單位沒有解釋清楚沒有做清楚就沒有了好我們接下來我想要請教一下我們的海洋委員會的我們的主委\n委員好好 主委好因為我們的業務費預算凍結了30%了就是等於說我們的海洋政策的整體推動 欠缺效果我們的海委會內執行的計畫協同不足等於是質疑所以其實我們解凍報告卻有說\n參與會議等空泛的文字作為就是效果的呈現所以這些會議的實質產出為何如何促成具體法案或個跨部會的政策的推動是否有量化的指標或者比如說新進計劃的執行或者政策執行的實效還有縮短的效率等等所以可以說明一下嗎\n各位委員報告如果說我們沒有在8月以前完成解凍的話我們大概所有的包括業務費跟一般基本的運作到8月份的時候我們大概就會遇到非常非常重大的困難我們現在就是有辦法維持到8月份那8月份以後就會遇到非常重大的困難\n所以我們很希望說能夠盡速給予我們來解凍那因為到八月份的時候各項的包括本會包括所有的附屬機關我們的執行率都會達到95%以上所以在這個部分我們有時間上的急迫性因此很希望我們這一次的解凍能夠得到委員的支持\n所以我們今天才要來說來審查來解凍希望說我們提出有具體的嘛這樣子我們才能是解凍因為給我們就是三天三天讓我們去看\n所以呢我們如果資料不齊全我們就問的時間又那麼短缺所以我們希望說開會的理由還有說的介紹的依據還有說我們那麼認真大家就是希望把它解凍嘛我們一直來我都幫你額略了全部會你就不會去講一些有的沒有的認真去做事的人所以我們就監督在野黨的委員就是無法要\n各位委員\n舉一個例子 譬如說我們東沙的同仁他如果要放假的話我們現在是給他們搭飛機回來那如果說我們沒有如期來解凍的話呢他們搭飛機回來就馬上會遇到困難了那這就會影響他們休假的 是啊所以我們現在就是要積極來解凍嘛我們的書面報告 朝委才安排就是一天就六個案就是因為就是要搓營銷飛車了嘛還不是要想要解凍嗎\n你這樣講我抗議喔不是 我們解凍就是要一起嘛所以說想要更清楚我們才會說我們要讓這個費用趕快解凍讓大家去做嘛好 再來我們就問接下來說我們的海巡業務費這樣子的凍結也是30%我們報告裡面就是說完成\n演训练的就是很多的场次但是我们办理教育训练的装备添购但我们必须要追问的是说我们教育训练场次是否是人数是否的那个预算还有就是规模有没有相符训练后的成效或者评估有这样子的报告\n因為我們要解凍就要了解嘛所以說我們的裝備要購買還有說公開採購的程序有沒有時機交付投入的這樣子的運用所以因為我們\n報告裡面是沒有看到我們的採購都是公開採購我們一定都走公開採購的程序因為目前報告裡面沒有看到走證的資料所以說想要再確認有沒有具體的因為委員關心了以後我們有準備一個我們公開採購的項目的報告我們會後再給委員\n好這樣就麻煩我們主委再來最後一分鐘我想要問一下我們的那個中選會我們請\n我想要請教一下我們有針對就是裡面就一個小項而已基本行政作業維護就是維持費就是說一般事務費編列了759萬4千多其中凍結了10%但是當解凍報告裡面聲稱說以\n預算編列原則與節約的規定使用但是我們在說明具體的時候沒有看到就是支出的明細還有績效的效果我們看到的就是依據你寫的最大的目標就是說列為合理編列就是合理的\n編列合理就是這四個字就可以能解凍就是形同我們就是就形式的審查而已因為我們這個案子其中就是有我們的有七\n75萬我們只有結凍說75萬的就是選務的設備精進或者系統的就是資訊的系統安全更新等重要的業務但是我們沒有看到具體的投入啦所以這個部分我們希望說我們的中選會這邊有比較具體一點我們才知道因為我們已經在今天\n我們要給大家的是三個月來去寫解凍的報告我們給各個部會是三個月但是今天我們給我們的資料只有三天還有我們要有教授只有六分鐘來去問各個部會\n但是我們看到一張紙就是一億兩張兩億三張三億所以我們政府的預算就是這樣子審查的嗎所以我們希望各個部會真真的這個都是都是我們血汗錢我們解凍不應該刑事審查所以是應該要有效率的展現各部會應該是依據我們要求的就是\n凍結的 要有具體的來去說明所以我們已經沒時間了大家都在加班來去看了但是看你們要給我們的資料就讓我們很失望所以說因為時間的關係我們希望說大家就是有具體的再來給我們 因為今天就一天這樣子去解決 我覺得真的我們在把關在審查我們的預算真的是太\n我們在做社團的在每一個社團要去爭取經費兩萬塊就要去說明還要去報告但是我們一張說明就一億我們沒辦法接受這個部分我們再請我們各部會再來去真真的是把所有的計畫真的具體讓我們了解讓我們真的是知識才不會造成後面\n再花一筆錢這樣子到最後變成什麼再來怪像怪我們沒有審查還是怪你們亂花所以這個就是我的要求以上 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.164 --> 00:08.909\n主委好主委好\n\n00:20.048 --> 00:42.701\n今天我是針對幾個議題而請教我們的主委我們是不是說我們學生要繳作業的時候是不是天經地義的老師要給學生打分數的時候是不是要看到作業但是學生不想給作業卻要求老師要給\n\n00:45.743 --> 00:51.107\n及格還有滿分如果你是老師你覺得這樣合理嗎當然不合理當然不合理對不對你也認同嘛所以我們今天要看到陸委會的法證業務預算凍結20%條件為三個月內提出\n\n01:08.500 --> 01:10.303\n兩岸協調監督條例研議進度報告應該雖然是期限內報告但不僅是陳述研議的歷程為明確提出法條的草案或版本\n\n01:24.302 --> 01:39.382\n的表層所以我想要問你說自從103年起已經大家都在關注這件事情陸委會到今天仍無明確的法案的明定的版本請問這樣是什麼理由\n\n01:42.601 --> 02:00.615\n跟委員報告我們在今天早上的書面報告也有很清楚的表述就是兩岸協議監督條例在當年2016年的時候那麼各黨團也有提出相關的版本但是由於爭點甚多那麼當時候未達成共識\n\n02:03.317 --> 02:19.228\n另外一方面就是那時候的兩岸關係啊也不是在處理這個做焦點那我們基於在2019年元月二號那麼習五條提出兩制台灣方案我們認為有關於民主協商的這個對台灣的統戰這個比較嚴重\n\n02:22.330 --> 02:37.684\n所以我們有優先去推動兩條例第五條之三有十項這個民電的條文來處理涉及到政治議題的協商我們建立了高標準高門檻的民主監督法制\n\n02:38.385 --> 02:58.947\n至於您剛剛提到的非涉及政治議題的兩岸協議監督條例以我們的做法因為我們把最重要的核心的法治工作做完了那其他的部分我們認為按照現行的兩岸條例第五條規定那麼過去呢我們行政部門跟立法部門都已經完成了\n\n02:59.508 --> 03:08.730\n二十六項的協議的審查跟被查的程序那麼我們也有很多的經驗所以暫無自愛所以我們會認為現階段兩岸協議監督條例暫無它的急迫性跟必要性但是我們也認為因為這個涉及國會監督的權限\n\n03:22.293 --> 03:42.369\n幾位幾位我要問你的東西不是你要問你的東西你回我不是回答的是你其他的業務我們問的是說因為我看到你的報告中還有沒有看到任何具體法案內容的草案還有就是說請持續以行政演繹\n\n03:47.333 --> 03:52.879\n言商難道只會是言喻再言商再協商再言商我看到裡面的事這樣子不像你現在說的我們時間可限因為我們就\n\n04:01.889 --> 04:06.331\n6分鐘6個單位我問你已經超過多少分鐘了你報告的我要問你但是你的資料沒有齊全啊所以說要版本解凍但是你講的跟你你給我們的報告裡面多寫說在延伤在延益所以我們沒有看到啊我們給你3個月但是你講的\n\n04:25.462 --> 04:35.806\n你要我們提出版本我們有研議我們認為現階段先沒有急後期跟必要性明確的版本啦不要一直在研議研商已經三個月了沒有隊長他跟我們講是請我們研議並不是要我們提出來所以我們一直認為如果有需要的話\n\n04:43.489 --> 05:11.204\n應該是由立法院從國會的角度來提審查我們由行政部門來說來審查的強度這個似乎已經第九屆第十屆都有其他委員提出到現在為止我們黨部很重視這個也教你提出但是你的報告裡面就是言商言議在言議所以已經三個月了我們認為現行的法制作業以足以來處理這一塊\n\n05:14.146 --> 05:29.600\n所以說我們今天是要來解凍你的法案你沒有報告你的法案也沒有寫我們的法案這樣就叫我們怎麼樣給你解凍呢所以說如果是這樣的案如果委員要提出我們尊重我們也提供我們的意見\n\n05:31.301 --> 05:39.225\n對不對是不是這樣子的意思所以我覺得你真的沒有提出我們要求的我們是要求的解凍的案你就是要把解凍的案來去做報告說明還有說有明確的不是說你講其他的業務其他業務給你三天三夜講不完我們的看法以及我們整體的評估作業\n\n05:53.573 --> 06:02.841\n同時我們也跟委員報告但是我們要求的看法要求的我們需要的你沒有去講啊我們問A要叫你解剖我們本息你要給我們提出行政院版本的兩岸協議監督條例我們經過非常認真的評估認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性如果委員你要來提出的話我們會尊重我們也會到時候\n\n06:17.153 --> 06:30.782\n提供我們的意見所以我們要求的就是你認為不要就是不用解凍我們認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性所以這樣你就是不要我們要求的你覺得不要所以我們就不用解凍但是你們交付我們評估的我們很認真報數我聽起來是這樣好\n\n06:34.444 --> 06:54.128\n所以因為時間的關係但是呢因為我們有六個單位我們主席一定要讓我們最少要問到三個吧不能說六分鐘就是就變成一個單位沒有解釋清楚沒有做清楚就沒有了好我們接下來我想要請教一下我們的海洋委員會的我們的主委\n\n07:03.407 --> 07:09.031\n委員好好主委好因為我們的業務費預算凍結了30%了就是等於說我們的海洋政策的整體推動欠缺效果我們的海委會內執行的計畫協同不足等於是質疑所以其實我們解凍報告卻有說\n\n07:27.506 --> 07:34.091\n參與會議等空泛的文字作為就是效果的呈現所以這些會議的實質產出為何如何促成具體法案或個跨部會的政策的推動是否有量化的指標或者比如說新進計劃的執行或者政策執行的實效還有縮短的效率等等所以可以說明一下嗎\n\n07:57.069 --> 08:15.889\n各位委員報告如果說我們沒有在8月以前完成解凍的話我們大概所有的包括業務費跟一般基本的運作到8月份的時候我們大概就會遇到非常非常重大的困難我們現在就是有辦法維持到8月份那8月份以後就會遇到非常重大的困難\n\n08:16.670 --> 08:39.022\n所以我們很希望說能夠盡速給予我們來解凍那因為到八月份的時候各項的包括本會包括所有的附屬機關我們的執行率都會達到95%以上所以在這個部分我們有時間上的急迫性因此很希望我們這一次的解凍能夠得到委員的支持\n\n08:40.330 --> 08:55.351\n所以我們今天才要來說來審查來解凍希望說我們提出有具體的嘛這樣子我們才能是解凍因為給我們就是三天三天讓我們去看\n\n08:56.192 --> 09:23.892\n所以呢我們如果資料不齊全我們就問的時間又那麼短缺所以我們希望說開會的理由還有說的介紹的依據還有說我們那麼認真大家就是希望把它解凍嘛我們一直來我都幫你額略了全部會你就不會去講一些有的沒有的認真去做事的人所以我們就監督在野黨的委員就是無法要\n\n09:25.333 --> 09:25.553\n各位委員\n\n09:45.214 --> 09:51.015\n舉一個例子譬如說我們東沙的同仁他如果要放假的話我們現在是給他們搭飛機回來那如果說我們沒有如期來解凍的話呢他們搭飛機回來就馬上會遇到困難了那這就會影響他們休假的是啊所以我們現在就是要積極來解凍嘛我們的書面報告朝委才安排就是一天就六個案就是因為就是要搓營銷飛車了嘛還不是要想要解凍嗎\n\n10:16.142 --> 10:24.385\n你這樣講我抗議喔不是我們解凍就是要一起嘛所以說想要更清楚我們才會說我們要讓這個費用趕快解凍讓大家去做嘛好再來我們就問接下來說我們的海巡業務費這樣子的凍結也是30%我們報告裡面就是說完成\n\n10:41.451 --> 11:05.139\n演训练的就是很多的场次但是我们办理教育训练的装备添购但我们必须要追问的是说我们教育训练场次是否是人数是否的那个预算还有就是规模有没有相符训练后的成效或者评估有这样子的报告\n\n11:05.919 --> 11:07.440\n因為我們要解凍就要了解嘛所以說我們的裝備要購買還有說公開採購的程序有沒有時機交付投入的這樣子的運用所以因為我們\n\n11:21.369 --> 11:38.223\n報告裡面是沒有看到我們的採購都是公開採購我們一定都走公開採購的程序因為目前報告裡面沒有看到走證的資料所以說想要再確認有沒有具體的因為委員關心了以後我們有準備一個我們公開採購的項目的報告我們會後再給委員\n\n11:44.628 --> 11:52.584\n好這樣就麻煩我們主委再來最後一分鐘我想要問一下我們的那個中選會我們請\n\n12:07.182 --> 12:21.287\n我想要請教一下我們有針對就是裡面就一個小項而已基本行政作業維護就是維持費就是說一般事務費編列了759萬4千多其中凍結了10%但是當解凍報告裡面聲稱說以\n\n12:35.590 --> 12:57.315\n預算編列原則與節約的規定使用但是我們在說明具體的時候沒有看到就是支出的明細還有績效的效果我們看到的就是依據你寫的最大的目標就是說列為合理編列就是合理的\n\n12:58.356 --> 13:12.032\n編列合理就是這四個字就可以能解凍就是形同我們就是就形式的審查而已因為我們這個案子其中就是有我們的有七\n\n13:14.295 --> 13:20.438\n75萬我們只有結凍說75萬的就是選務的設備精進或者系統的就是資訊的系統安全更新等重要的業務但是我們沒有看到具體的投入啦所以這個部分我們希望說我們的中選會這邊有比較具體一點我們才知道因為我們已經在今天\n\n13:42.148 --> 13:46.891\n我們要給大家的是三個月來去寫解凍的報告我們給各個部會是三個月但是今天我們給我們的資料只有三天還有我們要有教授只有六分鐘來去問各個部會\n\n14:04.542 --> 14:12.486\n但是我們看到一張紙就是一億兩張兩億三張三億所以我們政府的預算就是這樣子審查的嗎所以我們希望各個部會真真的這個都是都是我們血汗錢我們解凍不應該刑事審查所以是應該要有效率的展現各部會應該是依據我們要求的就是\n\n14:34.395 --> 14:40.999\n凍結的要有具體的來去說明所以我們已經沒時間了大家都在加班來去看了但是看你們要給我們的資料就讓我們很失望所以說因為時間的關係我們希望說大家就是有具體的再來給我們因為今天就一天這樣子去解決我覺得真的我們在把關在審查我們的預算真的是太\n\n15:03.677 --> 15:07.558\n我們在做社團的在每一個社團要去爭取經費兩萬塊就要去說明還要去報告但是我們一張說明就一億我們沒辦法接受這個部分我們再請我們各部會再來去真真的是把所有的計畫真的具體讓我們了解讓我們真的是知識才不會造成後面\n\n15:33.686 --> 15:44.999\n再花一筆錢這樣子到最後變成什麼再來怪像怪我們沒有審查還是怪你們亂花所以這個就是我的要求以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.164,"end":8.909,"text":"主委好主委好"},{"start":20.048,"end":42.701,"text":"今天我是針對幾個議題而請教我們的主委我們是不是說我們學生要繳作業的時候是不是天經地義的老師要給學生打分數的時候是不是要看到作業但是學生不想給作業卻要求老師要給"},{"start":45.743,"end":51.107,"text":"及格還有滿分如果你是老師你覺得這樣合理嗎當然不合理當然不合理對不對 你也認同嘛所以我們今天要看到陸委會的法證業務預算凍結20%條件為三個月內提出"},{"start":68.5,"end":70.303,"text":"兩岸協調監督條例研議進度報告應該雖然是期限內報告但不僅是陳述研議的歷程為明確提出法條的草案或版本"},{"start":84.302,"end":99.382,"text":"的表層所以我想要問你說自從103年起已經大家都在關注這件事情陸委會到今天仍無明確的法案的明定的版本請問這樣是什麼理由"},{"start":102.601,"end":120.615,"text":"跟委員報告我們在今天早上的書面報告也有很清楚的表述就是兩岸協議監督條例在當年2016年的時候那麼各黨團也有提出相關的版本但是由於爭點甚多那麼當時候未達成共識"},{"start":123.317,"end":139.228,"text":"另外一方面就是那時候的兩岸關係啊也不是在處理這個做焦點那我們基於在2019年元月二號那麼習五條提出兩制台灣方案我們認為有關於民主協商的這個對台灣的統戰這個比較嚴重"},{"start":142.33,"end":157.684,"text":"所以我們有優先去推動兩條例第五條之三有十項這個民電的條文來處理涉及到政治議題的協商我們建立了高標準高門檻的民主監督法制"},{"start":158.385,"end":178.947,"text":"至於您剛剛提到的非涉及政治議題的兩岸協議監督條例以我們的做法因為我們把最重要的核心的法治工作做完了那其他的部分我們認為按照現行的兩岸條例第五條規定那麼過去呢我們行政部門跟立法部門都已經完成了"},{"start":179.508,"end":188.73,"text":"二十六項的協議的審查跟被查的程序那麼我們也有很多的經驗所以暫無自愛所以我們會認為現階段兩岸協議監督條例暫無它的急迫性跟必要性但是我們也認為因為這個涉及國會監督的權限"},{"start":202.293,"end":222.369,"text":"幾位 幾位我要問你的東西不是你要問你的東西你回我不是回答的是你其他的業務我們問的是說因為我看到你的報告中還有沒有看到任何具體法案內容的草案還有就是說請持續以行政演繹"},{"start":227.333,"end":232.879,"text":"言商 難道只會是言喻再言商再協商再言商我看到裡面的事這樣子不像你現在說的我們時間可限因為我們就"},{"start":241.889,"end":246.331,"text":"6分鐘6個單位我問你已經超過多少分鐘了你報告的我要問你但是你的資料沒有齊全啊所以說要版本解凍但是你講的跟你你給我們的報告裡面多寫說在延伤在延益所以我們沒有看到啊我們給你3個月但是你講的"},{"start":265.462,"end":275.806,"text":"你要我們提出版本我們有研議我們認為現階段先沒有急後期跟必要性明確的版本啦不要一直在研議研商已經三個月了沒有 隊長他跟我們講是請我們研議並不是要我們提出來所以我們一直認為如果有需要的話"},{"start":283.489,"end":311.204,"text":"應該是由立法院從國會的角度來提審查我們由行政部門來說來審查的強度這個似乎已經第九屆第十屆都有其他委員提出到現在為止我們黨部很重視這個也教你提出但是你的報告裡面就是言商言議在言議所以已經三個月了我們認為現行的法制作業以足以來處理這一塊"},{"start":314.146,"end":329.6,"text":"所以說我們今天是要來解凍你的法案你沒有報告你的法案也沒有寫我們的法案這樣就叫我們怎麼樣給你解凍呢所以說如果是這樣的案如果委員要提出我們尊重我們也提供我們的意見"},{"start":331.301,"end":339.225,"text":"對不對 是不是這樣子的意思所以我覺得你真的沒有提出我們要求的我們是要求的解凍的案你就是要把解凍的案來去做報告說明還有說有明確的不是說你講其他的業務其他業務給你三天三夜講不完我們的看法以及我們整體的評估作業"},{"start":353.573,"end":362.841,"text":"同時我們也跟委員報告但是我們要求的看法要求的我們需要的你沒有去講啊我們問A要叫你解剖我們本息你要給我們提出行政院版本的兩岸協議監督條例我們經過非常認真的評估認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性如果委員你要來提出的話我們會尊重我們也會到時候"},{"start":377.153,"end":390.782,"text":"提供我們的意見所以我們要求的就是你認為不要就是不用解凍我們認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性所以這樣你就是不要我們要求的你覺得不要所以我們就不用解凍但是你們交付我們評估的我們很認真報數我聽起來是這樣好"},{"start":394.444,"end":414.128,"text":"所以因為時間的關係但是呢因為我們有六個單位我們主席一定要讓我們最少要問到三個吧不能說六分鐘就是就變成一個單位沒有解釋清楚沒有做清楚就沒有了好我們接下來我想要請教一下我們的海洋委員會的我們的主委"},{"start":423.407,"end":429.031,"text":"委員好好 主委好因為我們的業務費預算凍結了30%了就是等於說我們的海洋政策的整體推動 欠缺效果我們的海委會內執行的計畫協同不足等於是質疑所以其實我們解凍報告卻有說"},{"start":447.506,"end":454.091,"text":"參與會議等空泛的文字作為就是效果的呈現所以這些會議的實質產出為何如何促成具體法案或個跨部會的政策的推動是否有量化的指標或者比如說新進計劃的執行或者政策執行的實效還有縮短的效率等等所以可以說明一下嗎"},{"start":477.069,"end":495.889,"text":"各位委員報告如果說我們沒有在8月以前完成解凍的話我們大概所有的包括業務費跟一般基本的運作到8月份的時候我們大概就會遇到非常非常重大的困難我們現在就是有辦法維持到8月份那8月份以後就會遇到非常重大的困難"},{"start":496.67,"end":519.022,"text":"所以我們很希望說能夠盡速給予我們來解凍那因為到八月份的時候各項的包括本會包括所有的附屬機關我們的執行率都會達到95%以上所以在這個部分我們有時間上的急迫性因此很希望我們這一次的解凍能夠得到委員的支持"},{"start":520.33,"end":535.351,"text":"所以我們今天才要來說來審查來解凍希望說我們提出有具體的嘛這樣子我們才能是解凍因為給我們就是三天三天讓我們去看"},{"start":536.192,"end":563.892,"text":"所以呢我們如果資料不齊全我們就問的時間又那麼短缺所以我們希望說開會的理由還有說的介紹的依據還有說我們那麼認真大家就是希望把它解凍嘛我們一直來我都幫你額略了全部會你就不會去講一些有的沒有的認真去做事的人所以我們就監督在野黨的委員就是無法要"},{"start":565.333,"end":565.553,"text":"各位委員"},{"start":585.214,"end":591.015,"text":"舉一個例子 譬如說我們東沙的同仁他如果要放假的話我們現在是給他們搭飛機回來那如果說我們沒有如期來解凍的話呢他們搭飛機回來就馬上會遇到困難了那這就會影響他們休假的 是啊所以我們現在就是要積極來解凍嘛我們的書面報告 朝委才安排就是一天就六個案就是因為就是要搓營銷飛車了嘛還不是要想要解凍嗎"},{"start":616.142,"end":624.385,"text":"你這樣講我抗議喔不是 我們解凍就是要一起嘛所以說想要更清楚我們才會說我們要讓這個費用趕快解凍讓大家去做嘛好 再來我們就問接下來說我們的海巡業務費這樣子的凍結也是30%我們報告裡面就是說完成"},{"start":641.451,"end":665.139,"text":"演训练的就是很多的场次但是我们办理教育训练的装备添购但我们必须要追问的是说我们教育训练场次是否是人数是否的那个预算还有就是规模有没有相符训练后的成效或者评估有这样子的报告"},{"start":665.919,"end":667.44,"text":"因為我們要解凍就要了解嘛所以說我們的裝備要購買還有說公開採購的程序有沒有時機交付投入的這樣子的運用所以因為我們"},{"start":681.369,"end":698.223,"text":"報告裡面是沒有看到我們的採購都是公開採購我們一定都走公開採購的程序因為目前報告裡面沒有看到走證的資料所以說想要再確認有沒有具體的因為委員關心了以後我們有準備一個我們公開採購的項目的報告我們會後再給委員"},{"start":704.628,"end":712.584,"text":"好這樣就麻煩我們主委再來最後一分鐘我想要問一下我們的那個中選會我們請"},{"start":727.182,"end":741.287,"text":"我想要請教一下我們有針對就是裡面就一個小項而已基本行政作業維護就是維持費就是說一般事務費編列了759萬4千多其中凍結了10%但是當解凍報告裡面聲稱說以"},{"start":755.59,"end":777.315,"text":"預算編列原則與節約的規定使用但是我們在說明具體的時候沒有看到就是支出的明細還有績效的效果我們看到的就是依據你寫的最大的目標就是說列為合理編列就是合理的"},{"start":778.356,"end":792.032,"text":"編列合理就是這四個字就可以能解凍就是形同我們就是就形式的審查而已因為我們這個案子其中就是有我們的有七"},{"start":794.295,"end":800.438,"text":"75萬我們只有結凍說75萬的就是選務的設備精進或者系統的就是資訊的系統安全更新等重要的業務但是我們沒有看到具體的投入啦所以這個部分我們希望說我們的中選會這邊有比較具體一點我們才知道因為我們已經在今天"},{"start":822.148,"end":826.891,"text":"我們要給大家的是三個月來去寫解凍的報告我們給各個部會是三個月但是今天我們給我們的資料只有三天還有我們要有教授只有六分鐘來去問各個部會"},{"start":844.542,"end":852.486,"text":"但是我們看到一張紙就是一億兩張兩億三張三億所以我們政府的預算就是這樣子審查的嗎所以我們希望各個部會真真的這個都是都是我們血汗錢我們解凍不應該刑事審查所以是應該要有效率的展現各部會應該是依據我們要求的就是"},{"start":874.395,"end":880.999,"text":"凍結的 要有具體的來去說明所以我們已經沒時間了大家都在加班來去看了但是看你們要給我們的資料就讓我們很失望所以說因為時間的關係我們希望說大家就是有具體的再來給我們 因為今天就一天這樣子去解決 我覺得真的我們在把關在審查我們的預算真的是太"},{"start":903.677,"end":907.558,"text":"我們在做社團的在每一個社團要去爭取經費兩萬塊就要去說明還要去報告但是我們一張說明就一億我們沒辦法接受這個部分我們再請我們各部會再來去真真的是把所有的計畫真的具體讓我們了解讓我們真的是知識才不會造成後面"},{"start":933.686,"end":944.999,"text":"再花一筆錢這樣子到最後變成什麼再來怪像怪我們沒有審查還是怪你們亂花所以這個就是我的要求以上 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":526,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（10時32分）謝謝主席，有請陸委會主委。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：麥委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：主委好。今天針對幾個議題請教主委。學生交作業是天經地義的，而老師要給學生打分數是不是要先看到作業？但如果學生不想交作業，卻要求老師給及格分數，甚至是滿分，若主委是老師的話，你覺得這樣合理嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然不合理。"],["麥委員玉珍：當然不合理，對不對？主委也認同嘛！今天我們凍結陸委會的法政業務預算20%，條件為三個月內提出兩岸協議監督條例研議進度報告，這雖然是要你們在期限內提報告，但不能僅止於陳述研議歷程，而沒明確提出法條草案或版本。請教主委，從103年起，這就是大家所關注的事，但陸委會迄今仍無明確的法案版本，請問理由為何？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們在今天早上的書面報告中很清楚表述，兩岸協議監督條例在2016年時，各黨團也有提出相關版本，由於爭點甚多，當時未達成共識。另外，那時候的兩岸關係也不是以處理這個為焦點。基於2019年元月2日習五條提出兩制臺灣方案，我們認為有關民主協商及對臺灣統戰這兩點比較嚴重，所以我們優先推動修正兩岸條例第五條之三條文，共十項，明定處理涉及到政治議題的協商，建立了高標準、高門檻的民主監督法制。至於您剛剛提到的非涉及政治議題的兩岸協議監督條例，以我們的作法來說，因為我們把最重要的核心法制工作做完了，故其他部分，我們認為按照現行兩岸條例第五條規定辦理。過去行政部門跟立法部門已經完成了二十六項協議的審查與備查程序，我們也有很多經驗，所以尚無窒礙之處。我們認為現階段暫無制訂兩岸協議監督條例之急迫性與必要性，且我們也認為事涉國會監督權限……"],["麥委員玉珍：主委，我問你東，結果你回我西，還回答我其他業務？因為我在報告中並沒有看到法案的具體內容和草案……"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告……"],["麥委員玉珍：僅說持續與行政單位研議、研商，難道你們只會研議和研商嗎？然後再協商、再研商？我看到的是這樣，並不是你剛剛所說的。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，不是這樣的，我們很認真在評估……"],["麥委員玉珍：我的發言時間有限，6分鐘要問6個單位，現在光問你就超過多少分鐘了？我根據你報告的內容來問你，問題是你的資料並不齊全！當初本席要求你們提出版本後再解凍預算，但你講的及所提出的報告都寫說在協商、在研議，所以我們並沒有看到！我們給你三個月時間，但是你講的……"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員要我們提出版本，這件事我們有在研議，只是我們認為現階段並沒有急迫性與必要性。"],["麥委員玉珍：要提出明確的版本，不要一直在研議、研商，已經三個月了！"],["邱主任委員垂正：院長是請我們研議，並不是要我們提出版本。況且我們也認為如果有需要的話，應該由立法院從國會的角度來提版本審查，行政部門有行政部門審查的強度，我們認為這個會比較……"],["麥委員玉珍：第9屆、第10屆都有其他委員提出版本，而我們黨團很重視這件事，所以請主委提出版本，但是報告就是只有研商、研議、再研議，已經三個月了……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們認為現行的法制作業已足以處理這一塊……"],["麥委員玉珍：我們今天是要來處理預算解凍案，可是你沒有報告法案，也沒有法案版本……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們非常認真在評估……"],["麥委員玉珍：這叫我們怎麼同意解凍？如果是這樣的話……"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果委員要提出的話，我們尊重，我們也會提供我們的意見。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以你的意思就是不用解凍，對不對？是不是這意思？你沒有依照我們的要求來提出……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們很用心在評估……"],["麥委員玉珍：我們提案要你依據解凍案的要求來提報告跟說明，並提出明確的版本，而不是講其他業務。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們已經講過對兩岸協議監督條例的看法，以整體的評估作業，同時我們也跟委員報告……"],["麥委員玉珍：但是我們所要求的、所需要的，你並沒有回答！我們問A，給你解凍……"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，委員要我們提出行政院版本的兩岸協議監督條例，我們經過非常認真的評估，認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性！但如果委員要提出的話，我們尊重，到時候我們也會提供我們的意見。"],["麥委員玉珍：針對我們所要求的，你認為沒有這個必要，也就是不用解凍？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們認為現階段沒有急迫性跟必要性。"],["麥委員玉珍：你沒有達到我們的要求，你覺得不需要，所以就不用解凍？"],["邱主任委員垂正：但是委員交付要我們評估的，我們很認真在做……"],["麥委員玉珍：我聽起來就是這樣。因為時間關係，加上今天有6個單位，所以最少要讓我問到3個，而且不能只有6分鐘，否則就只能問一個單位，而且在還沒有解釋清楚前時間就沒有了。","接下來我想請教海洋委員會管主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：主委好。海委會業務費被凍結30%，因為海洋政策整體推動欠缺效果，海委會對計畫執行不足，引發質疑。但海委會所提出的解凍報告卻僅提到參與會議等空泛文字，卻不見參與這些會議的實質產出為何？如何促成具體法案或跨部會的政策推動？是否有量化指標，或新計畫的執行成效，乃至規模縮小後的效率等等？可以請主委說明一下嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，如果我們沒有在8月以前完成解凍的話，那麼包括業務費跟一般基本運作到8月份時，將遭遇非常非常重大的困難。我們現在僅能維持到8月份，至於8月份以後就會遇到非常重大的困難，所以我們很希望能夠儘速解凍。到8月份時，包括本會、包括所有附屬機關的執行率都會達到95%以上，因此我們有時間上的急迫性，很希望這一次的解凍能夠得到委員的支持。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以我們今天審查解凍案……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們知道委員一直以都相當支持我們。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以才希望你們能提出具體成效，我們才能同意解凍。其實我們只有三天時間，要我們三天內看完所有報告，如果資料不齊全，發言時間又那麼短，所以我希望你們參與會議的理由、績效的依據……大家之所以那麼認真，就是希望案子能夠解凍。一直以來對於海委會我都是鼓勵……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我知道，很謝謝委員。"],["麥委員玉珍：你是認真做事的人，不會去講一些有的沒的。在野黨委員站在監督的立場做事，可是我們想看的資料卻不齊全，所以主委是不是可以把相關資料提供給我們？這畢竟是預算案，所以你們講的……現在是解凍案……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我舉一個例子向委員說明……"],["麥委員玉珍：我們希望能有具體資料，再麻煩你。"],["管主任委員碧玲：舉一個例子說明，譬如駐守東沙的同仁如果放假的話，現在是讓他們搭飛機回來。但如果預算無法如期來解凍的話，他們搭飛機回來這件事就會馬上遇到困難，也會影響他們能不能完整休假……"],["麥委員玉珍：是啊，所以現在就是為了要積極解凍……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們的書面報告……"],["麥委員玉珍：召委才會安排，而且一天就排了六個單位，就像在坐雲霄飛車一樣，目的不就是為了解凍？"],["主席：你這樣講，我抗議喔！"],["麥委員玉珍：不是，我們解凍就是要一起嘛，所以想要更清楚……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們其實也有感受到……"],["麥委員玉珍：我們才會說我們要讓這個費用趕快解凍，讓大家去做嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，再來我們就問一下海巡業務費，這樣子的凍結也是30%，報告裡面……"],["管主任委員碧玲：這實在是歷史上最高的凍結數字……"],["麥委員玉珍：完成演、訓練很多場次，但是關於辦理教育訓練的裝備添購，我們必須要追問的是，教育訓練場次的人數是否符合預算編列，還有規模有沒有相符，以及訓練後的成效或者評估，有這樣子的報告嗎？因為我們要解凍，就要了解嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["麥委員玉珍：我們的裝備要購買，是否符合公開採購的程序，並且有沒有實際投入這樣子的運用，因為我們在報告裡面是沒有看到，所以才會……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們的採購都是公開採購，我們一定都走公開採購的程序。"],["麥委員玉珍：OK，因為目前報告裡面沒有看到這些佐證的資料，所以想要再確認有沒有具體的效果。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們有準備，因為委員關心了以後，我們有準備我們公開採購這些項目的報告，我們會後再給委員。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，這樣就麻煩主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝。"],["麥委員玉珍：再來，最後1分鐘，我想要問一下中選會。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：好。我想要請教一下，針對裡面的一個小項，「基本行政工作維持費」中「一般事務費」編列了七百五十九萬四千多元，其中凍結了10%，但是解凍報告裡面宣稱，以預算編列原則與節約的規定使用，但是我們在說明的時候，沒有看到具體支出的明細，還有績效的效果，我們看到的就是依據你寫的最大的目標，就是編列合理，「編列合理」這四個字就可以解凍，形同我們只是形式審查而已，因為這個案子其中我們有75萬的凍結，有關選務的設備精進或者資訊的系統安全更新等重要的業務，但是我們沒有看到具體的投入，所以這個部分，我們希望中選會這邊有比較具體一點的說明，我們才能知道，因為我們給大家三個月寫解凍的報告，我們給各個部會是三個月，但是給我們的資料只有3天，還有我們只有6分鐘去問各個部會，但是我們看到一張紙就是1億、兩張2億、三張3億，所以我們政府的預算就是這樣子審查的嗎？這個真的都是我們血汗錢，我們解凍不應該形式審查，應該要有效率的展現，各部會應該依據我們要求的，凍結的部分要具體的說明，我們已經沒時間了，大家都在加班去看了，但是看你們給我們的資料，就讓我們很失望。因為時間的關係，我們希望大家就是有具體的說明再來給我們，因為今天就1天這樣子去解決，我覺得我們在把關、在審查預算真的是太糊弄、隨便這樣。我們在做社團的，每一個社團要去爭取經費，兩萬塊就要去說明，還要去報告，但是你們一張說明就1億，我們沒辦法接受，這個部分再請我們各部會真正把所有的計畫具體讓我們了解，讓我們真的是支持，才不會造成後面再花一筆錢，這樣子到最後變成什麼？再來怪誰？怪我們沒有審查，還是怪你們亂花，所以這個就是我的要求。以上，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：我不用回答嗎？"],["麥委員玉珍：你將書面給我。"],["李主任委員進勇：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請吳琪銘委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-19","speakers":["張宏陸","王美惠","張智倫","許宇甄","高金素梅","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","吳琪銘","黃建賓","丁學忠","李柏毅","黃捷","王鴻薇","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-05-12"],"gazette_id":"1144901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議（含秘密會議）紀錄","content":"一、處理114年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算解凍案；二、處理114年度中央政府\n總預算有關不當黨產處理委員會預算解凍案；三、處理、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關中央\n選舉委員會及所屬預算解凍案；四、處理114年度中央政府總預算有關大陸委員會預算解凍案；\n五、處理、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關客家委員會及所屬預算解凍案","agenda_id":"1144901_00004"}}}