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\"受\", \"start\": 447.756, \"end\": 447.836, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 447.836, \"end\": 447.976, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 447.976, \"end\": 447.996, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 447.996, \"end\": 448.076, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 448.076, \"end\": 448.096, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}]}, {\"start\": 457.529, \"end\": 486.044, \"text\": \"這就是我們一直所關心的也擔憂的就是說我們當成立一個速發部大家國人對你們高度期待然後結果你們現在一個基本法也是互相來推然後就現在詐騙的廣告我們去年成立了打詐釋法通過打詐釋法結果給你們工具到現在一個月即便是這個更不要想內政部講說他已經下架三萬八千則的詐騙廣告但是還有出資者不明的也沒有辦法處理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 457.529, \"end\": 457.669, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 457.669, \"end\": 458.029, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 458.029, \"end\": 458.55, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 458.55, \"end\": 458.73, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 458.73, \"end\": 458.89, \"score\": 0.871}, 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\"這個我覺得都是我們目前法律沒有考慮到但是技術上做得到所以我們定力基本法以及未來的作用法都應該要去考慮的是沒有錯委員講到的是非常重要一個重點就是AI訓練的結果產出必須不能夠侵害智慧產權\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 675.579, \"end\": 675.799, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 675.799, \"end\": 675.859, \"score\": 0.245}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 675.859, \"end\": 676.059, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 676.059, \"end\": 676.52, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 676.52, \"end\": 676.8, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 676.8, \"end\": 677.04, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 677.04, \"end\": 677.28, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 677.28, \"end\": 677.46, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 677.46, \"end\": 677.6, \"score\": 0.543}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 677.6, \"end\": 677.72, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 677.72, \"end\": 677.84, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 677.84, \"end\": 678.08, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 678.08, \"end\": 678.24, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 678.24, \"end\": 678.34, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 678.34, \"end\": 678.5, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 678.5, \"end\": 678.801, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"術\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 678.801, \"end\": 679.001, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 679.001, \"end\": 679.161, \"score\": 0.602}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 679.161, \"end\": 679.281, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 679.281, \"end\": 679.681, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 679.681, \"end\": 679.781, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 679.781, \"end\": 679.861, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 679.861, \"end\": 680.141, \"score\": 0.647}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 680.141, \"end\": 680.281, 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\"end\": 685.584, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 685.584, \"end\": 685.724, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 685.724, \"end\": 685.824, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 685.824, \"end\": 685.984, \"score\": 0.651}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 685.984, \"end\": 686.324, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 686.324, \"end\": 686.444, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 686.444, \"end\": 686.924, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 686.924, \"end\": 687.104, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 687.104, \"end\": 687.284, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"訓\"}, {\"word\": \"練\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 687.284, \"end\": 687.605, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 687.605, \"end\": 687.985, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 687.985, \"end\": 688.425, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 688.425, \"end\": 688.705, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 688.705, \"end\": 688.785, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 688.785, \"end\": 689.445, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"侵\", \"start\": 689.445, \"end\": 689.606, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 689.606, \"end\": 689.806, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 689.806, \"end\": 689.946, \"score\": 0.627}, {\"word\": \"慧\", \"start\": 689.946, \"end\": 689.966, \"score\": 0.387}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"權\"}]}, {\"start\": 690.746, \"end\": 713.298, \"text\": \"因為智慧財產權所謂的模仿跟真正的侵害智慧財產權其實是有個案上的差距的那舉例來說他如果單純是模仿或者是某一種畫風那可能這個在成立上面會有一些不太一樣的地方但是他如果以諸葛亮的名義來做的話那就會侵害他的姓名或是肖像權的使用那這個部分其實智慧財產權也不斷在演進當中\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 690.746, \"end\": 691.246, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 691.246, \"end\": 691.546, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"慧\", \"start\": 691.546, \"end\": 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702.312, \"end\": 702.452, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 702.452, \"end\": 703.333, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 703.333, \"end\": 703.533, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 703.533, \"end\": 703.713, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 703.713, \"end\": 703.813, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 703.813, \"end\": 703.973, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 703.973, \"end\": 704.253, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 704.253, \"end\": 704.553, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 704.553, \"end\": 704.753, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 704.753, \"end\": 705.014, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 705.014, \"end\": 705.114, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 705.114, \"end\": 705.254, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 705.254, \"end\": 705.494, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 705.494, \"end\": 705.594, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 705.594, \"end\": 705.794, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 705.794, \"end\": 706.234, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 706.234, \"end\": 706.334, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 706.334, \"end\": 706.394, \"score\": 0.592}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 706.394, \"end\": 706.574, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 706.574, \"end\": 706.694, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 706.694, \"end\": 706.875, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 706.875, \"end\": 707.555, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"諸\"}, {\"word\": \"葛\", \"start\": 707.555, \"end\": 707.695, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"亮\", \"start\": 707.695, \"end\": 707.855, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 707.855, \"end\": 707.955, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 707.955, \"end\": 708.375, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 708.375, \"end\": 708.495, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 708.495, \"end\": 708.956, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 708.956, \"end\": 709.036, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 709.036, \"end\": 709.256, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"侵\", \"start\": 709.256, \"end\": 709.456, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 709.456, \"end\": 709.676, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 709.676, \"end\": 709.836, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 709.836, \"end\": 709.936, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"姓\", \"start\": 709.936, \"end\": 710.096, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 710.096, \"end\": 710.296, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 710.296, \"end\": 710.456, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 710.456, \"end\": 710.557, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"肖\", \"start\": 710.557, \"end\": 710.737, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 710.737, \"end\": 710.917, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 710.917, \"end\": 711.177, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 711.177, \"end\": 711.357, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 711.357, \"end\": 711.777, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 711.777, \"end\": 712.077, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 712.077, \"end\": 712.197, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 712.197, \"end\": 712.397, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 712.397, \"end\": 712.818, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 712.818, \"end\": 712.938, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"慧\", \"start\": 712.938, \"end\": 713.018, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 713.018, \"end\": 713.038, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 713.038, \"end\": 713.058, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 713.058, \"end\": 713.178, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"演\", \"start\": 713.178, \"end\": 713.278, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 713.278, \"end\": 713.298, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 715.399, \"end\": 738.345, \"text\": \"那我們也會跟經濟部智慧局保持這個密切的聯繫那相關的個案那我相信這個包括智慧財產權也好或是法院也好都是在國際上面都是非常尖端的案例是需要持續來觀察嗎就是因為是尖端案例但已經發生了所以本席才會提出來我覺得這跟現在基本法以及未來我們各部會要訂立作用法的部分有很大的息息相關\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 715.399, \"end\": 715.539, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 715.539, \"end\": 715.619, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 715.619, \"end\": 715.859, \"score\": 0.626}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 715.859, \"end\": 716.379, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 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\"start\": 921.978, \"end\": 922.319, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 922.319, \"end\": 922.499, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 922.499, \"end\": 922.519, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,718 --> 00:00:25,346\n好主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委跟抒發部葉次長請官員備諮詢謝謝來主委主委好我先延續剛剛羅委員的議題啦你知不知道羅委員剛剛問的主要是什麼什麼樣的一個問題\n\n2\n00:00:29,394 --> 00:00:42,206\n他重視的是人才培育嘛那人才培育包含在實戰的場合還有更之前那個心理智商的部分心理智商也是要培養心理智商的人才但是要應用AI你不能讓AI獨立去做嘛\n\n3\n00:00:43,707 --> 00:01:10,193\n可能那個問題沒有那麼明確你知道最近有一個新聞是說比朋友更懂你年輕人現在敢用一款APP聊天你有沒有看到這個新聞沒有沒有看到這個新聞你知道是哪一款APP現在年輕人很愛用來聊天嗎不曉得不知道它那個新聞是在今年5月3號就是ChapGPT所以現在很多年輕人喜歡用ChapGPT來聊天因為AI可以給很多的情緒價值\n\n4\n00:01:12,054 --> 00:01:32,452\n某種程度上就是剛剛衍生羅委員講的就是說當很多的年輕人學生還沒有成年的人士他可能他遇到一些心理因素感情因素然後他覺得說沒有地方可以傾訴他就找AI來聊天當然AI他提供的資料正確與否有沒有心理諮商的專業這就是另外一個範疇這也是為什麼我們認為說\n\n5\n00:01:34,614 --> 00:01:54,999\n人工智慧基本法非常重要的原因嘛有定立基本法之後才有未來作用法以及相關的一個範圍可以來去規範衛福部也要納進來大家共同討論嘛所以這也是好拉回來本席今天提到去年5月23號您首次來交融化委員會的時候那個時候最多人問的議題是什麼\n\n6\n00:01:58,309 --> 00:02:20,543\nAI基本法是其中一個就是AI基本法什麼時候要出來吳宗憲委員講那個時候我們關心的時候是歐盟才剛創立這個基本法相關的草案但是一年過去了5月23到現在5月14快一年的時間了我們還是在空中樓閣當然國客會有努力努力了10月10月送出來之後行政院突然在今年2月的時候轉交速發布\n\n7\n00:02:21,804 --> 00:02:46,413\n沒有講任何理由那到底現在我們要問的是國科會也好或速發部也好什麼時候能夠把行政院的版本送出來理由我剛剛有報告過那這個行政院現在正在作業當中我相信應該很快很快就會送出來您去年的時候5月23打選的時候也講說去年底要有版本我有完成我的承諾速發部\n\n8\n00:02:50,049 --> 00:03:11,791\n市長是,就如剛才主委所說,今年二月把這個立法推動交給本部那相關的一些文字的調整我們已經完成了,但是因為就像委員所說我們現在還會有什麼樣的流程要走,還是我們還要不要再我必須要經過行政院院會審議是,沒有錯,在經過行政院院會審議的時候,速發部送出版本了嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:12,712 --> 00:03:36,986\n這個版本現在已經在行政院已經在行政院了那預計什麼時候能夠出來還要不要遵循外界的意見還是已經有歸納相關了我們會盡量談納大家的意見包括今天委員在委員會的指教那行政院審議的這個流程就不是我這邊能夠回答但是我們相信就是剛剛主委所說的行政院會盡量盡快完成這個程序送請到大院來審議\n\n10\n00:03:37,486 --> 00:03:52,876\n但是可以push跟可以追蹤嘛因為這是國人大家所關心而且各部會大家也都需要這個基本法完之後能夠再來有相關的作業法還有相關的細則對不對好主委那我再請教讓外界比較\n\n11\n00:03:54,704 --> 00:04:21,669\n擔憂的地方啊庶發部成立不到三年但是施政滿意民調其實一直敬佩莫助而且未來有可能是會由庶產署這邊來負責變成是三級機關那很多人講是說其實國科會之前也已經研究了一兩年的時間推動一兩年的時間那現在這個基本法變成是庶發部未來會不會變成是說沒有辦法讓其他部會配合的一個情況\n\n12\n00:04:22,725 --> 00:04:40,439\n不會我們在行政院你自己怎麼看如果說國科會跟速發部最大的一個分歧點在哪裡哪一個主管機關對於我們整體的發展會是比較有幫助國科會跟速發部沒有分歧我們是一起在協調在努力但是現在變成是主管機關就從國科會變速發部了不是嗎\n\n13\n00:04:42,436 --> 00:04:56,708\n未來這個法令的解釋機關會在速發部因為將來在施政的部分直接接觸到人民接觸到產業接觸到各機關團體的主要是速發部在施政的範圍內是嗎\n\n14\n00:04:58,709 --> 00:05:14,714\n本席就講了就是說國人對於過去三年成立的速發部其實是說實在話不是我要把大家撈開我也知道有很多同仁其實是很用心很努力但是很多東西其實速發部過去真的讓國人很難信任譬如說打仗\n\n15\n00:05:15,974 --> 00:05:41,850\nAI現在主委我相信你也可以認同AI的科技日新月異的情況很多的詐騙其實跟AI息息相關那我才上兩個禮拜前詢問說速發部到底現在內政部報速發部我們開發這些社群媒體平台了有沒有結果給我回答居然講是說有廣告不實的情況啦15折現在還在做研議啊我可不可以再請教一下市長來市長\n\n16\n00:05:45,189 --> 00:06:11,056\n4月25號你們跟我回覆當天本來是另外一位次長嘛我在詢答的時候另外一位次長跟我講說內政部沒有送來他自己回答是這樣子那後來改口了書面報告給我的是有啦4月25號有15則廣告出資者不明所以送行政院行政院5月1號的時候交速發部速發部目前處理的狀況是什麼\n\n17\n00:06:12,978 --> 00:06:39,448\n很抱歉這部分當然不是我督導範圍我所知的跟委員差不多一樣就是說這個經過行政院跨部會審查是有一部分的案件還需要進行調查好部分案件還需要進行調查那現在5月13號了所以從4月25號到5月13號我姑且即便國人大家想一下聽一下看一下姑且即便相信說這個只有15個是你目前知道說出資不明的類似詐騙廣告\n\n18\n00:06:42,628 --> 00:07:05,654\n從425報行政院行政院5月1號交速發布速發布到5月13號了都還沒有相關的作業市長也好部長也好主委也好可不可以想一下一個詐騙廣告在那個社群媒體平台上面一天會有多少人看到會有多少國人受騙會有多少詐騙金額一個月我們的統計是將近百億的詐騙金額\n\n19\n00:07:07,310 --> 00:07:28,096\n結果15則不明的廣告出資者一個月過去了到目前為止都還在踢皮球也還沒有找Meta來談或是還是讓Meta陳述意見中那一個月的時間多這一個月多放任了有多少的詐騙嬰兒受害受害者嬰兒受害主委市長\n\n20\n00:07:37,529 --> 00:08:06,044\n這就是我們一直所關心的也擔憂的就是說我們當成立一個速發部大家國人對你們高度期待然後結果你們現在一個基本法也是互相來推然後就現在詐騙的廣告我們去年成立了打詐釋法通過打詐釋法結果給你們工具到現在一個月即便是這個更不要想內政部講說他已經下架三萬八千則的詐騙廣告但是還有出資者不明的也沒有辦法處理\n\n21\n00:08:07,874 --> 00:08:24,600\n跟我們報告未來會是這樣子牛步嗎跟我們報告我們沒有這個呼啼啤酒的問題我們因為要開罰必須要有法律的依據要有證據所以現在這個程序都在進行當中我現在沒有講說開罰不需要證據沒有錯但是我只是說光這一個月的時間\n\n22\n00:08:26,281 --> 00:08:54,580\n如果說我們面對的樣體群體那麼的明顯不要讓外界覺得是說你們不敢打老虎只敢對個人只敢對一些小用戶真正社群媒體平台Meta也好YouTube也好Google也好國際公司我知道啊我自己也是使用者啊但如果說他們獲利或是賺錢的來源是來自於詐騙集團那我們怎麼可能放任讓他們繼續賺錢呢\n\n23\n00:08:57,661 --> 00:09:13,379\n到目前為止有沒有開罰過我們現在正在進行調查進行調查好所以就是沒有開罰來最後我想請教一下主委或是次長我們還是討論一下AI基本法我覺得有一個部分也大家所關心的就是隱私的問題\n\n24\n00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:28,956\n我不知道主委或次長有沒有最近看到諸葛亮已故藝人他有一個演出最近好像前天的一個演出是他用虛擬的影像結合AI變成是他跟現場的藝人來做一個對話\n\n25\n00:09:30,177 --> 00:09:44,831\n而現在的技術已經成熟到他的肢體條媒口氣話語都跟諸葛亮生前是一模一樣幾乎可以講就好像是他拍的我不知道有沒有看到諸葛亮\n\n26\n00:09:48,260 --> 00:10:03,308\n我沒有看到但是這的確技術已經進步到這個階段對那這某種程度上如果說他用在正面當然因為他是一個公開演出所以說他有獲得可能他的後人的一個授權或是同意但另外一個方面如果說他用在犯罪上這就是身為技術\n\n27\n00:10:04,469 --> 00:10:24,427\n可以把它給想像成身為技術或是說現在的這個技術虛擬已經成熟到是幾乎辨別不出來那就分別兩個問題當然身為技術有身為技術之前我們討論的刑法但另外一個部分不管是我們現在講的是說之前的這個GPT的那個\n\n28\n00:10:26,688 --> 00:10:51,114\n畫風我們用照片可以轉換成什麼迪士尼風這個卡通風動漫風等等的部分那可能也會有這個AI侵權的一個疑慮或者是現在用這個身為技術來用後人那即便是我仿造這個已故的人士或者是說別人即便是有後代的授權但是有沒有可能還是會有侵權的狀況\n\n29\n00:10:52,762 --> 00:11:11,637\n要講什麼內容或是他要做什麼樣的一個甚至如果說大家覺得反應很好或是說大家真的很懷念朱大哥我自己也覺得說他的主持風格非常好但如果說懷念朱大哥而未來如果說他用這個深為記就是用他的這個影像來去做產品代言行不行\n\n30\n00:11:15,579 --> 00:11:29,966\n這個我覺得都是我們目前法律沒有考慮到但是技術上做得到所以我們定力基本法以及未來的作用法都應該要去考慮的是沒有錯委員講到的是非常重要一個重點就是AI訓練的結果產出必須不能夠侵害智慧產權\n\n31\n00:11:30,746 --> 00:11:53,298\n因為智慧財產權所謂的模仿跟真正的侵害智慧財產權其實是有個案上的差距的那舉例來說他如果單純是模仿或者是某一種畫風那可能這個在成立上面會有一些不太一樣的地方但是他如果以諸葛亮的名義來做的話那就會侵害他的姓名或是肖像權的使用那這個部分其實智慧財產權也不斷在演進當中\n\n32\n00:11:55,399 --> 00:12:18,345\n那我們也會跟經濟部智慧局保持這個密切的聯繫那相關的個案那我相信這個包括智慧財產權也好或是法院也好都是在國際上面都是非常尖端的案例是需要持續來觀察嗎就是因為是尖端案例但已經發生了所以本席才會提出來我覺得這跟現在基本法以及未來我們各部會要訂立作用法的部分有很大的息息相關\n\n33\n00:12:19,065 --> 00:12:34,527\n那還有基本法到底什麼時候出來不確定但是我們各委員會的部門各委員會的版本已經在這邊了我們期待當然有行政院的版本大家可以共同來討論豬跳審查但如果說沒有的話我們沒有辦法繼續等下去那以及本席現在就提出來就說\n\n34\n00:12:35,228 --> 00:12:58,829\n未來像針對這個部分其實應該是各部會業務全責沒有錯您剛才提到說經濟部但是數位運用上面來講我覺得數發部既然是主管機關還是要有一定的一個主導性跟想法我剛就說嘛如果說朱大哥這個事情後人覺得說很好然後大家反應很熱烈他能不能繼續接代言商業利益商業行為\n\n35\n00:12:59,943 --> 00:13:03,660\n那商業行為譬如說他用虛擬的影像講說這個產品很棒\n\n36\n00:13:05,441 --> 00:13:31,666\n那是他的後人授權決定他後人可能有一些商業的一個合約但是這樣子會不會有一些道德上的一個狀況我覺得不只是這個就是眼神您懂我意思嗎因為這個是一連串我們應該要思考我相信應該也有國外的案例甚至我們也查到美國的案例有美國法庭上面司法在做法庭的一個出庭陳述的時候他就讓\n\n37\n00:13:32,930 --> 00:13:55,348\n被槍殺身亡者他運用AI的還原讓他在法庭上面做意見陳述當然講的內容可能他生前有講過這樣的概念但是不是他當下之後還會講這樣的內容不得而知因為他可能人已經離開了可是這樣子的一個案件這樣的一個案例未來會不會在台灣發生\n\n38\n00:13:56,858 --> 00:14:19,363\n這是證據力的問題對不對還有本席之前也有提過譬如說像現在新聞也有很多的新聞畫面之前有一個新聞是說用AI合成或是說虛擬地震的影片那我們NCC也做開發但是現在也有很多新聞是沒有拍到的畫面他用AI影片來去做生成\n\n39\n00:14:20,123 --> 00:14:48,835\n那是不是應該要加注警語以及要怎麼樣加注警語讓民眾知道說這一段是AI生成影片哪一段是真的採訪影片這一些部分可能都是我們已經都在接受到但是法令還沒有跟上的部分據我所知NCC已經訂定了指引就如委員所說其實透明的義務是最基本的所以再拉回來主委比較笑多了啦主委本席語重心長啦\n\n40\n00:14:50,197 --> 00:15:13,209\n過去一年都在教育文化委員會國科會我們很多專業可以共同討論AI人工智慧基本法確實是台灣不能落後於世界基本法也只是第一步第二步相關的部會的一個溝通那既然主委已經在這個領域上面努力了一整年的時間了即便是現在主管機關是速發部但我相信國科會的角色也很重要\n\n41\n00:15:13,829 --> 00:15:22,519\n能夠趕快push出來行政院的版本讓我們可以充分的討論進一步的能夠來完成立法我覺得這才是我們大家共同關心的謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9718\t25346\t好主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委跟抒發部葉次長請官員備諮詢謝謝來主委主委好我先延續剛剛羅委員的議題啦你知不知道羅委員剛剛問的主要是什麼什麼樣的一個問題\n29394\t42206\t他重視的是人才培育嘛那人才培育包含在實戰的場合還有更之前那個心理智商的部分心理智商也是要培養心理智商的人才但是要應用AI你不能讓AI獨立去做嘛\n43707\t70193\t可能那個問題沒有那麼明確你知道最近有一個新聞是說比朋友更懂你年輕人現在敢用一款APP聊天你有沒有看到這個新聞沒有沒有看到這個新聞你知道是哪一款APP現在年輕人很愛用來聊天嗎不曉得不知道它那個新聞是在今年5月3號就是ChapGPT所以現在很多年輕人喜歡用ChapGPT來聊天因為AI可以給很多的情緒價值\n72054\t92452\t某種程度上就是剛剛衍生羅委員講的就是說當很多的年輕人學生還沒有成年的人士他可能他遇到一些心理因素感情因素然後他覺得說沒有地方可以傾訴他就找AI來聊天當然AI他提供的資料正確與否有沒有心理諮商的專業這就是另外一個範疇這也是為什麼我們認為說\n94614\t114999\t人工智慧基本法非常重要的原因嘛有定立基本法之後才有未來作用法以及相關的一個範圍可以來去規範衛福部也要納進來大家共同討論嘛所以這也是好拉回來本席今天提到去年5月23號您首次來交融化委員會的時候那個時候最多人問的議題是什麼\n118309\t140543\tAI基本法是其中一個就是AI基本法什麼時候要出來吳宗憲委員講那個時候我們關心的時候是歐盟才剛創立這個基本法相關的草案但是一年過去了5月23到現在5月14快一年的時間了我們還是在空中樓閣當然國客會有努力努力了10月10月送出來之後行政院突然在今年2月的時候轉交速發布\n141804\t166413\t沒有講任何理由那到底現在我們要問的是國科會也好或速發部也好什麼時候能夠把行政院的版本送出來理由我剛剛有報告過那這個行政院現在正在作業當中我相信應該很快很快就會送出來您去年的時候5月23打選的時候也講說去年底要有版本我有完成我的承諾速發部\n170049\t191791\t市長是,就如剛才主委所說,今年二月把這個立法推動交給本部那相關的一些文字的調整我們已經完成了,但是因為就像委員所說我們現在還會有什麼樣的流程要走,還是我們還要不要再我必須要經過行政院院會審議是,沒有錯,在經過行政院院會審議的時候,速發部送出版本了嗎?\n192712\t216986\t這個版本現在已經在行政院已經在行政院了那預計什麼時候能夠出來還要不要遵循外界的意見還是已經有歸納相關了我們會盡量談納大家的意見包括今天委員在委員會的指教那行政院審議的這個流程就不是我這邊能夠回答但是我們相信就是剛剛主委所說的行政院會盡量盡快完成這個程序送請到大院來審議\n217486\t232876\t但是可以push跟可以追蹤嘛因為這是國人大家所關心而且各部會大家也都需要這個基本法完之後能夠再來有相關的作業法還有相關的細則 對不對好 主委 那我再請教讓外界比較\n234704\t261669\t擔憂的地方啊庶發部成立不到三年但是施政滿意民調其實一直敬佩莫助而且未來有可能是會由庶產署這邊來負責變成是三級機關那很多人講是說其實國科會之前也已經研究了一兩年的時間推動一兩年的時間那現在這個基本法變成是庶發部未來會不會變成是說沒有辦法讓其他部會配合的一個情況\n262725\t280439\t不會 我們在行政院你自己怎麼看 如果說國科會跟速發部最大的一個分歧點在哪裡哪一個主管機關對於我們整體的發展會是比較有幫助國科會跟速發部沒有分歧我們是一起在協調 在努力但是現在變成是主管機關就從國科會變速發部了不是嗎\n282436\t296708\t未來這個法令的解釋機關會在速發部因為將來在施政的部分直接接觸到人民接觸到產業接觸到各機關團體的主要是速發部在施政的範圍內是嗎\n298709\t314714\t本席就講了就是說國人對於過去三年成立的速發部其實是說實在話不是我要把大家撈開我也知道有很多同仁其實是很用心很努力但是很多東西其實速發部過去真的讓國人很難信任譬如說打仗\n315974\t341850\tAI現在主委我相信你也可以認同AI的科技日新月異的情況很多的詐騙其實跟AI息息相關那我才上兩個禮拜前詢問說速發部到底現在內政部報速發部我們開發這些社群媒體平台了有沒有結果給我回答居然講是說有廣告不實的情況啦15折現在還在做研議啊我可不可以再請教一下市長來市長\n345189\t371056\t4月25號你們跟我回覆當天本來是另外一位次長嘛我在詢答的時候另外一位次長跟我講說內政部沒有送來他自己回答是這樣子那後來改口了書面報告給我的是有啦4月25號有15則廣告出資者不明所以送行政院行政院5月1號的時候交速發部速發部目前處理的狀況是什麼\n372978\t399448\t很抱歉 這部分當然不是我督導範圍我所知的跟委員差不多一樣就是說這個經過行政院跨部會審查是有一部分的案件還需要進行調查好 部分案件還需要進行調查那現在5月13號了所以從4月25號到5月13號我姑且即便國人大家想一下 聽一下 看一下姑且即便相信說這個只有15個是你目前知道說出資不明的類似詐騙廣告\n402628\t425654\t從425報行政院行政院5月1號交速發布速發布到5月13號了都還沒有相關的作業市長也好 部長也好 主委也好可不可以想一下一個詐騙廣告在那個社群媒體平台上面一天會有多少人看到會有多少國人受騙會有多少詐騙金額一個月我們的統計是將近百億的詐騙金額\n427310\t448096\t結果15則不明的廣告出資者一個月過去了到目前為止都還在踢皮球也還沒有找Meta來談或是還是讓Meta陳述意見中那一個月的時間多這一個月多放任了有多少的詐騙嬰兒受害受害者嬰兒受害主委 市長\n457529\t486044\t這就是我們一直所關心的也擔憂的就是說我們當成立一個速發部大家國人對你們高度期待然後結果你們現在一個基本法也是互相來推然後就現在詐騙的廣告我們去年成立了打詐釋法通過打詐釋法結果給你們工具到現在一個月即便是這個更不要想內政部講說他已經下架三萬八千則的詐騙廣告但是還有出資者不明的也沒有辦法處理\n487874\t504600\t跟我們報告未來會是這樣子牛步嗎跟我們報告我們沒有這個呼啼啤酒的問題我們因為要開罰必須要有法律的依據要有證據所以現在這個程序都在進行當中我現在沒有講說開罰不需要證據沒有錯但是我只是說光這一個月的時間\n506281\t534580\t如果說我們面對的樣體群體那麼的明顯不要讓外界覺得是說你們不敢打老虎只敢對個人只敢對一些小用戶真正社群媒體平台Meta也好 YouTube也好 Google也好國際公司我知道啊我自己也是使用者啊但如果說他們獲利或是賺錢的來源是來自於詐騙集團那我們怎麼可能放任讓他們繼續賺錢呢\n537661\t553379\t到目前為止有沒有開罰過我們現在正在進行調查進行調查好所以就是沒有開罰來最後我想請教一下主委或是次長我們還是討論一下AI基本法我覺得有一個部分也大家所關心的就是隱私的問題\n554440\t568956\t我不知道主委或次長有沒有最近看到諸葛亮已故藝人他有一個演出最近好像前天的一個演出是他用虛擬的影像結合AI變成是他跟現場的藝人來做一個對話\n570177\t584831\t而現在的技術已經成熟到他的肢體 條媒 口氣 話語都跟諸葛亮生前是一模一樣幾乎可以講就好像是他拍的我不知道有沒有看到 諸葛亮\n588260\t603308\t我沒有看到但是這的確技術已經進步到這個階段對 那這某種程度上如果說他用在正面當然因為他是一個公開演出所以說他有獲得可能他的後人的一個授權或是同意但另外一個方面如果說他用在犯罪上這就是身為技術\n604469\t624427\t可以把它給想像成身為技術或是說現在的這個技術虛擬已經成熟到是幾乎辨別不出來那就分別兩個問題當然身為技術有身為技術之前我們討論的刑法但另外一個部分不管是我們現在講的是說之前的這個GPT的那個\n626688\t651114\t畫風我們用照片可以轉換成什麼迪士尼風這個卡通風動漫風等等的部分那可能也會有這個AI侵權的一個疑慮或者是現在用這個身為技術來用後人那即便是我仿造這個已故的人士或者是說別人即便是有後代的授權但是有沒有可能還是會有侵權的狀況\n652762\t671637\t要講什麼內容或是他要做什麼樣的一個甚至如果說大家覺得反應很好或是說大家真的很懷念朱大哥我自己也覺得說他的主持風格非常好但如果說懷念朱大哥而未來如果說他用這個深為記就是用他的這個影像來去做產品代言行不行\n675579\t689966\t這個我覺得都是我們目前法律沒有考慮到但是技術上做得到所以我們定力基本法以及未來的作用法都應該要去考慮的是沒有錯委員講到的是非常重要一個重點就是AI訓練的結果產出必須不能夠侵害智慧產權\n690746\t713298\t因為智慧財產權所謂的模仿跟真正的侵害智慧財產權其實是有個案上的差距的那舉例來說他如果單純是模仿或者是某一種畫風那可能這個在成立上面會有一些不太一樣的地方但是他如果以諸葛亮的名義來做的話那就會侵害他的姓名或是肖像權的使用那這個部分其實智慧財產權也不斷在演進當中\n715399\t738345\t那我們也會跟經濟部智慧局保持這個密切的聯繫那相關的個案那我相信這個包括智慧財產權也好或是法院也好都是在國際上面都是非常尖端的案例是需要持續來觀察嗎就是因為是尖端案例但已經發生了所以本席才會提出來我覺得這跟現在基本法以及未來我們各部會要訂立作用法的部分有很大的息息相關\n739065\t754527\t那還有基本法到底什麼時候出來不確定但是我們各委員會的部門各委員會的版本已經在這邊了我們期待當然有行政院的版本大家可以共同來討論豬跳審查但如果說沒有的話我們沒有辦法繼續等下去那以及本席現在就提出來就說\n755228\t778829\t未來像針對這個部分其實應該是各部會業務全責沒有錯您剛才提到說經濟部但是數位運用上面來講我覺得數發部既然是主管機關還是要有一定的一個主導性跟想法我剛就說嘛如果說朱大哥這個事情後人覺得說很好然後大家反應很熱烈他能不能繼續接代言商業利益 商業行為\n779943\t783660\t那商業行為譬如說他用虛擬的影像講說這個產品很棒\n785441\t811666\t那是他的後人授權決定他後人可能有一些商業的一個合約但是這樣子會不會有一些道德上的一個狀況我覺得不只是這個就是眼神您懂我意思嗎因為這個是一連串我們應該要思考我相信應該也有國外的案例甚至我們也查到美國的案例有美國法庭上面司法在做法庭的一個出庭陳述的時候他就讓\n812930\t835348\t被槍殺身亡者他運用AI的還原讓他在法庭上面做意見陳述當然講的內容可能他生前有講過這樣的概念但是不是他當下之後還會講這樣的內容不得而知因為他可能人已經離開了可是這樣子的一個案件這樣的一個案例未來會不會在台灣發生\n836858\t859363\t這是證據力的問題對不對還有本席之前也有提過譬如說像現在新聞也有很多的新聞畫面之前有一個新聞是說用AI合成或是說虛擬地震的影片那我們NCC也做開發但是現在也有很多新聞是沒有拍到的畫面他用AI影片來去做生成\n860123\t888835\t那是不是應該要加注警語以及要怎麼樣加注警語讓民眾知道說這一段是AI生成影片哪一段是真的採訪影片這一些部分可能都是我們已經都在接受到但是法令還沒有跟上的部分據我所知NCC已經訂定了指引就如委員所說其實透明的義務是最基本的所以再拉回來 主委比較笑多了啦主委 本席語重心長啦\n890197\t913209\t過去一年都在教育文化委員會國科會我們很多專業可以共同討論AI人工智慧基本法確實是台灣不能落後於世界基本法也只是第一步第二步相關的部會的一個溝通那既然主委已經在這個領域上面努力了一整年的時間了即便是現在主管機關是速發部但我相信國科會的角色也很重要\n913829\t922519\t能夠趕快push出來行政院的版本讓我們可以充分的討論進一步的能夠來完成立法我覺得這才是我們大家共同關心的謝謝\n","txt":"好主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委跟抒發部葉次長請官員備諮詢謝謝來主委主委好我先延續剛剛羅委員的議題啦你知不知道羅委員剛剛問的主要是什麼什麼樣的一個問題\n他重視的是人才培育嘛那人才培育包含在實戰的場合還有更之前那個心理智商的部分心理智商也是要培養心理智商的人才但是要應用AI你不能讓AI獨立去做嘛\n可能那個問題沒有那麼明確你知道最近有一個新聞是說比朋友更懂你年輕人現在敢用一款APP聊天你有沒有看到這個新聞沒有沒有看到這個新聞你知道是哪一款APP現在年輕人很愛用來聊天嗎不曉得不知道它那個新聞是在今年5月3號就是ChapGPT所以現在很多年輕人喜歡用ChapGPT來聊天因為AI可以給很多的情緒價值\n某種程度上就是剛剛衍生羅委員講的就是說當很多的年輕人學生還沒有成年的人士他可能他遇到一些心理因素感情因素然後他覺得說沒有地方可以傾訴他就找AI來聊天當然AI他提供的資料正確與否有沒有心理諮商的專業這就是另外一個範疇這也是為什麼我們認為說\n人工智慧基本法非常重要的原因嘛有定立基本法之後才有未來作用法以及相關的一個範圍可以來去規範衛福部也要納進來大家共同討論嘛所以這也是好拉回來本席今天提到去年5月23號您首次來交融化委員會的時候那個時候最多人問的議題是什麼\nAI基本法是其中一個就是AI基本法什麼時候要出來吳宗憲委員講那個時候我們關心的時候是歐盟才剛創立這個基本法相關的草案但是一年過去了5月23到現在5月14快一年的時間了我們還是在空中樓閣當然國客會有努力努力了10月10月送出來之後行政院突然在今年2月的時候轉交速發布\n沒有講任何理由那到底現在我們要問的是國科會也好或速發部也好什麼時候能夠把行政院的版本送出來理由我剛剛有報告過那這個行政院現在正在作業當中我相信應該很快很快就會送出來您去年的時候5月23打選的時候也講說去年底要有版本我有完成我的承諾速發部\n市長是,就如剛才主委所說,今年二月把這個立法推動交給本部那相關的一些文字的調整我們已經完成了,但是因為就像委員所說我們現在還會有什麼樣的流程要走,還是我們還要不要再我必須要經過行政院院會審議是,沒有錯,在經過行政院院會審議的時候,速發部送出版本了嗎?\n這個版本現在已經在行政院已經在行政院了那預計什麼時候能夠出來還要不要遵循外界的意見還是已經有歸納相關了我們會盡量談納大家的意見包括今天委員在委員會的指教那行政院審議的這個流程就不是我這邊能夠回答但是我們相信就是剛剛主委所說的行政院會盡量盡快完成這個程序送請到大院來審議\n但是可以push跟可以追蹤嘛因為這是國人大家所關心而且各部會大家也都需要這個基本法完之後能夠再來有相關的作業法還有相關的細則 對不對好 主委 那我再請教讓外界比較\n擔憂的地方啊庶發部成立不到三年但是施政滿意民調其實一直敬佩莫助而且未來有可能是會由庶產署這邊來負責變成是三級機關那很多人講是說其實國科會之前也已經研究了一兩年的時間推動一兩年的時間那現在這個基本法變成是庶發部未來會不會變成是說沒有辦法讓其他部會配合的一個情況\n不會 我們在行政院你自己怎麼看 如果說國科會跟速發部最大的一個分歧點在哪裡哪一個主管機關對於我們整體的發展會是比較有幫助國科會跟速發部沒有分歧我們是一起在協調 在努力但是現在變成是主管機關就從國科會變速發部了不是嗎\n未來這個法令的解釋機關會在速發部因為將來在施政的部分直接接觸到人民接觸到產業接觸到各機關團體的主要是速發部在施政的範圍內是嗎\n本席就講了就是說國人對於過去三年成立的速發部其實是說實在話不是我要把大家撈開我也知道有很多同仁其實是很用心很努力但是很多東西其實速發部過去真的讓國人很難信任譬如說打仗\nAI現在主委我相信你也可以認同AI的科技日新月異的情況很多的詐騙其實跟AI息息相關那我才上兩個禮拜前詢問說速發部到底現在內政部報速發部我們開發這些社群媒體平台了有沒有結果給我回答居然講是說有廣告不實的情況啦15折現在還在做研議啊我可不可以再請教一下市長來市長\n4月25號你們跟我回覆當天本來是另外一位次長嘛我在詢答的時候另外一位次長跟我講說內政部沒有送來他自己回答是這樣子那後來改口了書面報告給我的是有啦4月25號有15則廣告出資者不明所以送行政院行政院5月1號的時候交速發部速發部目前處理的狀況是什麼\n很抱歉 這部分當然不是我督導範圍我所知的跟委員差不多一樣就是說這個經過行政院跨部會審查是有一部分的案件還需要進行調查好 部分案件還需要進行調查那現在5月13號了所以從4月25號到5月13號我姑且即便國人大家想一下 聽一下 看一下姑且即便相信說這個只有15個是你目前知道說出資不明的類似詐騙廣告\n從425報行政院行政院5月1號交速發布速發布到5月13號了都還沒有相關的作業市長也好 部長也好 主委也好可不可以想一下一個詐騙廣告在那個社群媒體平台上面一天會有多少人看到會有多少國人受騙會有多少詐騙金額一個月我們的統計是將近百億的詐騙金額\n結果15則不明的廣告出資者一個月過去了到目前為止都還在踢皮球也還沒有找Meta來談或是還是讓Meta陳述意見中那一個月的時間多這一個月多放任了有多少的詐騙嬰兒受害受害者嬰兒受害主委 市長\n這就是我們一直所關心的也擔憂的就是說我們當成立一個速發部大家國人對你們高度期待然後結果你們現在一個基本法也是互相來推然後就現在詐騙的廣告我們去年成立了打詐釋法通過打詐釋法結果給你們工具到現在一個月即便是這個更不要想內政部講說他已經下架三萬八千則的詐騙廣告但是還有出資者不明的也沒有辦法處理\n跟我們報告未來會是這樣子牛步嗎跟我們報告我們沒有這個呼啼啤酒的問題我們因為要開罰必須要有法律的依據要有證據所以現在這個程序都在進行當中我現在沒有講說開罰不需要證據沒有錯但是我只是說光這一個月的時間\n如果說我們面對的樣體群體那麼的明顯不要讓外界覺得是說你們不敢打老虎只敢對個人只敢對一些小用戶真正社群媒體平台Meta也好 YouTube也好 Google也好國際公司我知道啊我自己也是使用者啊但如果說他們獲利或是賺錢的來源是來自於詐騙集團那我們怎麼可能放任讓他們繼續賺錢呢\n到目前為止有沒有開罰過我們現在正在進行調查進行調查好所以就是沒有開罰來最後我想請教一下主委或是次長我們還是討論一下AI基本法我覺得有一個部分也大家所關心的就是隱私的問題\n我不知道主委或次長有沒有最近看到諸葛亮已故藝人他有一個演出最近好像前天的一個演出是他用虛擬的影像結合AI變成是他跟現場的藝人來做一個對話\n而現在的技術已經成熟到他的肢體 條媒 口氣 話語都跟諸葛亮生前是一模一樣幾乎可以講就好像是他拍的我不知道有沒有看到 諸葛亮\n我沒有看到但是這的確技術已經進步到這個階段對 那這某種程度上如果說他用在正面當然因為他是一個公開演出所以說他有獲得可能他的後人的一個授權或是同意但另外一個方面如果說他用在犯罪上這就是身為技術\n可以把它給想像成身為技術或是說現在的這個技術虛擬已經成熟到是幾乎辨別不出來那就分別兩個問題當然身為技術有身為技術之前我們討論的刑法但另外一個部分不管是我們現在講的是說之前的這個GPT的那個\n畫風我們用照片可以轉換成什麼迪士尼風這個卡通風動漫風等等的部分那可能也會有這個AI侵權的一個疑慮或者是現在用這個身為技術來用後人那即便是我仿造這個已故的人士或者是說別人即便是有後代的授權但是有沒有可能還是會有侵權的狀況\n要講什麼內容或是他要做什麼樣的一個甚至如果說大家覺得反應很好或是說大家真的很懷念朱大哥我自己也覺得說他的主持風格非常好但如果說懷念朱大哥而未來如果說他用這個深為記就是用他的這個影像來去做產品代言行不行\n這個我覺得都是我們目前法律沒有考慮到但是技術上做得到所以我們定力基本法以及未來的作用法都應該要去考慮的是沒有錯委員講到的是非常重要一個重點就是AI訓練的結果產出必須不能夠侵害智慧產權\n因為智慧財產權所謂的模仿跟真正的侵害智慧財產權其實是有個案上的差距的那舉例來說他如果單純是模仿或者是某一種畫風那可能這個在成立上面會有一些不太一樣的地方但是他如果以諸葛亮的名義來做的話那就會侵害他的姓名或是肖像權的使用那這個部分其實智慧財產權也不斷在演進當中\n那我們也會跟經濟部智慧局保持這個密切的聯繫那相關的個案那我相信這個包括智慧財產權也好或是法院也好都是在國際上面都是非常尖端的案例是需要持續來觀察嗎就是因為是尖端案例但已經發生了所以本席才會提出來我覺得這跟現在基本法以及未來我們各部會要訂立作用法的部分有很大的息息相關\n那還有基本法到底什麼時候出來不確定但是我們各委員會的部門各委員會的版本已經在這邊了我們期待當然有行政院的版本大家可以共同來討論豬跳審查但如果說沒有的話我們沒有辦法繼續等下去那以及本席現在就提出來就說\n未來像針對這個部分其實應該是各部會業務全責沒有錯您剛才提到說經濟部但是數位運用上面來講我覺得數發部既然是主管機關還是要有一定的一個主導性跟想法我剛就說嘛如果說朱大哥這個事情後人覺得說很好然後大家反應很熱烈他能不能繼續接代言商業利益 商業行為\n那商業行為譬如說他用虛擬的影像講說這個產品很棒\n那是他的後人授權決定他後人可能有一些商業的一個合約但是這樣子會不會有一些道德上的一個狀況我覺得不只是這個就是眼神您懂我意思嗎因為這個是一連串我們應該要思考我相信應該也有國外的案例甚至我們也查到美國的案例有美國法庭上面司法在做法庭的一個出庭陳述的時候他就讓\n被槍殺身亡者他運用AI的還原讓他在法庭上面做意見陳述當然講的內容可能他生前有講過這樣的概念但是不是他當下之後還會講這樣的內容不得而知因為他可能人已經離開了可是這樣子的一個案件這樣的一個案例未來會不會在台灣發生\n這是證據力的問題對不對還有本席之前也有提過譬如說像現在新聞也有很多的新聞畫面之前有一個新聞是說用AI合成或是說虛擬地震的影片那我們NCC也做開發但是現在也有很多新聞是沒有拍到的畫面他用AI影片來去做生成\n那是不是應該要加注警語以及要怎麼樣加注警語讓民眾知道說這一段是AI生成影片哪一段是真的採訪影片這一些部分可能都是我們已經都在接受到但是法令還沒有跟上的部分據我所知NCC已經訂定了指引就如委員所說其實透明的義務是最基本的所以再拉回來 主委比較笑多了啦主委 本席語重心長啦\n過去一年都在教育文化委員會國科會我們很多專業可以共同討論AI人工智慧基本法確實是台灣不能落後於世界基本法也只是第一步第二步相關的部會的一個溝通那既然主委已經在這個領域上面努力了一整年的時間了即便是現在主管機關是速發部但我相信國科會的角色也很重要\n能夠趕快push出來行政院的版本讓我們可以充分的討論進一步的能夠來完成立法我覺得這才是我們大家共同關心的謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.718 --> 00:25.346\n好主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委跟抒發部葉次長請官員備諮詢謝謝來主委主委好我先延續剛剛羅委員的議題啦你知不知道羅委員剛剛問的主要是什麼什麼樣的一個問題\n\n00:29.394 --> 00:42.206\n他重視的是人才培育嘛那人才培育包含在實戰的場合還有更之前那個心理智商的部分心理智商也是要培養心理智商的人才但是要應用AI你不能讓AI獨立去做嘛\n\n00:43.707 --> 01:10.193\n可能那個問題沒有那麼明確你知道最近有一個新聞是說比朋友更懂你年輕人現在敢用一款APP聊天你有沒有看到這個新聞沒有沒有看到這個新聞你知道是哪一款APP現在年輕人很愛用來聊天嗎不曉得不知道它那個新聞是在今年5月3號就是ChapGPT所以現在很多年輕人喜歡用ChapGPT來聊天因為AI可以給很多的情緒價值\n\n01:12.054 --> 01:32.452\n某種程度上就是剛剛衍生羅委員講的就是說當很多的年輕人學生還沒有成年的人士他可能他遇到一些心理因素感情因素然後他覺得說沒有地方可以傾訴他就找AI來聊天當然AI他提供的資料正確與否有沒有心理諮商的專業這就是另外一個範疇這也是為什麼我們認為說\n\n01:34.614 --> 01:54.999\n人工智慧基本法非常重要的原因嘛有定立基本法之後才有未來作用法以及相關的一個範圍可以來去規範衛福部也要納進來大家共同討論嘛所以這也是好拉回來本席今天提到去年5月23號您首次來交融化委員會的時候那個時候最多人問的議題是什麼\n\n01:58.309 --> 02:20.543\nAI基本法是其中一個就是AI基本法什麼時候要出來吳宗憲委員講那個時候我們關心的時候是歐盟才剛創立這個基本法相關的草案但是一年過去了5月23到現在5月14快一年的時間了我們還是在空中樓閣當然國客會有努力努力了10月10月送出來之後行政院突然在今年2月的時候轉交速發布\n\n02:21.804 --> 02:46.413\n沒有講任何理由那到底現在我們要問的是國科會也好或速發部也好什麼時候能夠把行政院的版本送出來理由我剛剛有報告過那這個行政院現在正在作業當中我相信應該很快很快就會送出來您去年的時候5月23打選的時候也講說去年底要有版本我有完成我的承諾速發部\n\n02:50.049 --> 03:11.791\n市長是,就如剛才主委所說,今年二月把這個立法推動交給本部那相關的一些文字的調整我們已經完成了,但是因為就像委員所說我們現在還會有什麼樣的流程要走,還是我們還要不要再我必須要經過行政院院會審議是,沒有錯,在經過行政院院會審議的時候,速發部送出版本了嗎?\n\n03:12.712 --> 03:36.986\n這個版本現在已經在行政院已經在行政院了那預計什麼時候能夠出來還要不要遵循外界的意見還是已經有歸納相關了我們會盡量談納大家的意見包括今天委員在委員會的指教那行政院審議的這個流程就不是我這邊能夠回答但是我們相信就是剛剛主委所說的行政院會盡量盡快完成這個程序送請到大院來審議\n\n03:37.486 --> 03:52.876\n但是可以push跟可以追蹤嘛因為這是國人大家所關心而且各部會大家也都需要這個基本法完之後能夠再來有相關的作業法還有相關的細則對不對好主委那我再請教讓外界比較\n\n03:54.704 --> 04:21.669\n擔憂的地方啊庶發部成立不到三年但是施政滿意民調其實一直敬佩莫助而且未來有可能是會由庶產署這邊來負責變成是三級機關那很多人講是說其實國科會之前也已經研究了一兩年的時間推動一兩年的時間那現在這個基本法變成是庶發部未來會不會變成是說沒有辦法讓其他部會配合的一個情況\n\n04:22.725 --> 04:40.439\n不會我們在行政院你自己怎麼看如果說國科會跟速發部最大的一個分歧點在哪裡哪一個主管機關對於我們整體的發展會是比較有幫助國科會跟速發部沒有分歧我們是一起在協調在努力但是現在變成是主管機關就從國科會變速發部了不是嗎\n\n04:42.436 --> 04:56.708\n未來這個法令的解釋機關會在速發部因為將來在施政的部分直接接觸到人民接觸到產業接觸到各機關團體的主要是速發部在施政的範圍內是嗎\n\n04:58.709 --> 05:14.714\n本席就講了就是說國人對於過去三年成立的速發部其實是說實在話不是我要把大家撈開我也知道有很多同仁其實是很用心很努力但是很多東西其實速發部過去真的讓國人很難信任譬如說打仗\n\n05:15.974 --> 05:41.850\nAI現在主委我相信你也可以認同AI的科技日新月異的情況很多的詐騙其實跟AI息息相關那我才上兩個禮拜前詢問說速發部到底現在內政部報速發部我們開發這些社群媒體平台了有沒有結果給我回答居然講是說有廣告不實的情況啦15折現在還在做研議啊我可不可以再請教一下市長來市長\n\n05:45.189 --> 06:11.056\n4月25號你們跟我回覆當天本來是另外一位次長嘛我在詢答的時候另外一位次長跟我講說內政部沒有送來他自己回答是這樣子那後來改口了書面報告給我的是有啦4月25號有15則廣告出資者不明所以送行政院行政院5月1號的時候交速發部速發部目前處理的狀況是什麼\n\n06:12.978 --> 06:39.448\n很抱歉這部分當然不是我督導範圍我所知的跟委員差不多一樣就是說這個經過行政院跨部會審查是有一部分的案件還需要進行調查好部分案件還需要進行調查那現在5月13號了所以從4月25號到5月13號我姑且即便國人大家想一下聽一下看一下姑且即便相信說這個只有15個是你目前知道說出資不明的類似詐騙廣告\n\n06:42.628 --> 07:05.654\n從425報行政院行政院5月1號交速發布速發布到5月13號了都還沒有相關的作業市長也好部長也好主委也好可不可以想一下一個詐騙廣告在那個社群媒體平台上面一天會有多少人看到會有多少國人受騙會有多少詐騙金額一個月我們的統計是將近百億的詐騙金額\n\n07:07.310 --> 07:28.096\n結果15則不明的廣告出資者一個月過去了到目前為止都還在踢皮球也還沒有找Meta來談或是還是讓Meta陳述意見中那一個月的時間多這一個月多放任了有多少的詐騙嬰兒受害受害者嬰兒受害主委市長\n\n07:37.529 --> 08:06.044\n這就是我們一直所關心的也擔憂的就是說我們當成立一個速發部大家國人對你們高度期待然後結果你們現在一個基本法也是互相來推然後就現在詐騙的廣告我們去年成立了打詐釋法通過打詐釋法結果給你們工具到現在一個月即便是這個更不要想內政部講說他已經下架三萬八千則的詐騙廣告但是還有出資者不明的也沒有辦法處理\n\n08:07.874 --> 08:24.600\n跟我們報告未來會是這樣子牛步嗎跟我們報告我們沒有這個呼啼啤酒的問題我們因為要開罰必須要有法律的依據要有證據所以現在這個程序都在進行當中我現在沒有講說開罰不需要證據沒有錯但是我只是說光這一個月的時間\n\n08:26.281 --> 08:54.580\n如果說我們面對的樣體群體那麼的明顯不要讓外界覺得是說你們不敢打老虎只敢對個人只敢對一些小用戶真正社群媒體平台Meta也好YouTube也好Google也好國際公司我知道啊我自己也是使用者啊但如果說他們獲利或是賺錢的來源是來自於詐騙集團那我們怎麼可能放任讓他們繼續賺錢呢\n\n08:57.661 --> 09:13.379\n到目前為止有沒有開罰過我們現在正在進行調查進行調查好所以就是沒有開罰來最後我想請教一下主委或是次長我們還是討論一下AI基本法我覺得有一個部分也大家所關心的就是隱私的問題\n\n09:14.440 --> 09:28.956\n我不知道主委或次長有沒有最近看到諸葛亮已故藝人他有一個演出最近好像前天的一個演出是他用虛擬的影像結合AI變成是他跟現場的藝人來做一個對話\n\n09:30.177 --> 09:44.831\n而現在的技術已經成熟到他的肢體條媒口氣話語都跟諸葛亮生前是一模一樣幾乎可以講就好像是他拍的我不知道有沒有看到諸葛亮\n\n09:48.260 --> 10:03.308\n我沒有看到但是這的確技術已經進步到這個階段對那這某種程度上如果說他用在正面當然因為他是一個公開演出所以說他有獲得可能他的後人的一個授權或是同意但另外一個方面如果說他用在犯罪上這就是身為技術\n\n10:04.469 --> 10:24.427\n可以把它給想像成身為技術或是說現在的這個技術虛擬已經成熟到是幾乎辨別不出來那就分別兩個問題當然身為技術有身為技術之前我們討論的刑法但另外一個部分不管是我們現在講的是說之前的這個GPT的那個\n\n10:26.688 --> 10:51.114\n畫風我們用照片可以轉換成什麼迪士尼風這個卡通風動漫風等等的部分那可能也會有這個AI侵權的一個疑慮或者是現在用這個身為技術來用後人那即便是我仿造這個已故的人士或者是說別人即便是有後代的授權但是有沒有可能還是會有侵權的狀況\n\n10:52.762 --> 11:11.637\n要講什麼內容或是他要做什麼樣的一個甚至如果說大家覺得反應很好或是說大家真的很懷念朱大哥我自己也覺得說他的主持風格非常好但如果說懷念朱大哥而未來如果說他用這個深為記就是用他的這個影像來去做產品代言行不行\n\n11:15.579 --> 11:29.966\n這個我覺得都是我們目前法律沒有考慮到但是技術上做得到所以我們定力基本法以及未來的作用法都應該要去考慮的是沒有錯委員講到的是非常重要一個重點就是AI訓練的結果產出必須不能夠侵害智慧產權\n\n11:30.746 --> 11:53.298\n因為智慧財產權所謂的模仿跟真正的侵害智慧財產權其實是有個案上的差距的那舉例來說他如果單純是模仿或者是某一種畫風那可能這個在成立上面會有一些不太一樣的地方但是他如果以諸葛亮的名義來做的話那就會侵害他的姓名或是肖像權的使用那這個部分其實智慧財產權也不斷在演進當中\n\n11:55.399 --> 12:18.345\n那我們也會跟經濟部智慧局保持這個密切的聯繫那相關的個案那我相信這個包括智慧財產權也好或是法院也好都是在國際上面都是非常尖端的案例是需要持續來觀察嗎就是因為是尖端案例但已經發生了所以本席才會提出來我覺得這跟現在基本法以及未來我們各部會要訂立作用法的部分有很大的息息相關\n\n12:19.065 --> 12:34.527\n那還有基本法到底什麼時候出來不確定但是我們各委員會的部門各委員會的版本已經在這邊了我們期待當然有行政院的版本大家可以共同來討論豬跳審查但如果說沒有的話我們沒有辦法繼續等下去那以及本席現在就提出來就說\n\n12:35.228 --> 12:58.829\n未來像針對這個部分其實應該是各部會業務全責沒有錯您剛才提到說經濟部但是數位運用上面來講我覺得數發部既然是主管機關還是要有一定的一個主導性跟想法我剛就說嘛如果說朱大哥這個事情後人覺得說很好然後大家反應很熱烈他能不能繼續接代言商業利益商業行為\n\n12:59.943 --> 13:03.660\n那商業行為譬如說他用虛擬的影像講說這個產品很棒\n\n13:05.441 --> 13:31.666\n那是他的後人授權決定他後人可能有一些商業的一個合約但是這樣子會不會有一些道德上的一個狀況我覺得不只是這個就是眼神您懂我意思嗎因為這個是一連串我們應該要思考我相信應該也有國外的案例甚至我們也查到美國的案例有美國法庭上面司法在做法庭的一個出庭陳述的時候他就讓\n\n13:32.930 --> 13:55.348\n被槍殺身亡者他運用AI的還原讓他在法庭上面做意見陳述當然講的內容可能他生前有講過這樣的概念但是不是他當下之後還會講這樣的內容不得而知因為他可能人已經離開了可是這樣子的一個案件這樣的一個案例未來會不會在台灣發生\n\n13:56.858 --> 14:19.363\n這是證據力的問題對不對還有本席之前也有提過譬如說像現在新聞也有很多的新聞畫面之前有一個新聞是說用AI合成或是說虛擬地震的影片那我們NCC也做開發但是現在也有很多新聞是沒有拍到的畫面他用AI影片來去做生成\n\n14:20.123 --> 14:48.835\n那是不是應該要加注警語以及要怎麼樣加注警語讓民眾知道說這一段是AI生成影片哪一段是真的採訪影片這一些部分可能都是我們已經都在接受到但是法令還沒有跟上的部分據我所知NCC已經訂定了指引就如委員所說其實透明的義務是最基本的所以再拉回來主委比較笑多了啦主委本席語重心長啦\n\n14:50.197 --> 15:13.209\n過去一年都在教育文化委員會國科會我們很多專業可以共同討論AI人工智慧基本法確實是台灣不能落後於世界基本法也只是第一步第二步相關的部會的一個溝通那既然主委已經在這個領域上面努力了一整年的時間了即便是現在主管機關是速發部但我相信國科會的角色也很重要\n\n15:13.829 --> 15:22.519\n能夠趕快push出來行政院的版本讓我們可以充分的討論進一步的能夠來完成立法我覺得這才是我們大家共同關心的謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.718,"end":25.346,"text":"好主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委跟抒發部葉次長請官員備諮詢謝謝來主委主委好我先延續剛剛羅委員的議題啦你知不知道羅委員剛剛問的主要是什麼什麼樣的一個問題"},{"start":29.394,"end":42.206,"text":"他重視的是人才培育嘛那人才培育包含在實戰的場合還有更之前那個心理智商的部分心理智商也是要培養心理智商的人才但是要應用AI你不能讓AI獨立去做嘛"},{"start":43.707,"end":70.193,"text":"可能那個問題沒有那麼明確你知道最近有一個新聞是說比朋友更懂你年輕人現在敢用一款APP聊天你有沒有看到這個新聞沒有沒有看到這個新聞你知道是哪一款APP現在年輕人很愛用來聊天嗎不曉得不知道它那個新聞是在今年5月3號就是ChapGPT所以現在很多年輕人喜歡用ChapGPT來聊天因為AI可以給很多的情緒價值"},{"start":72.054,"end":92.452,"text":"某種程度上就是剛剛衍生羅委員講的就是說當很多的年輕人學生還沒有成年的人士他可能他遇到一些心理因素感情因素然後他覺得說沒有地方可以傾訴他就找AI來聊天當然AI他提供的資料正確與否有沒有心理諮商的專業這就是另外一個範疇這也是為什麼我們認為說"},{"start":94.614,"end":114.999,"text":"人工智慧基本法非常重要的原因嘛有定立基本法之後才有未來作用法以及相關的一個範圍可以來去規範衛福部也要納進來大家共同討論嘛所以這也是好拉回來本席今天提到去年5月23號您首次來交融化委員會的時候那個時候最多人問的議題是什麼"},{"start":118.309,"end":140.543,"text":"AI基本法是其中一個就是AI基本法什麼時候要出來吳宗憲委員講那個時候我們關心的時候是歐盟才剛創立這個基本法相關的草案但是一年過去了5月23到現在5月14快一年的時間了我們還是在空中樓閣當然國客會有努力努力了10月10月送出來之後行政院突然在今年2月的時候轉交速發布"},{"start":141.804,"end":166.413,"text":"沒有講任何理由那到底現在我們要問的是國科會也好或速發部也好什麼時候能夠把行政院的版本送出來理由我剛剛有報告過那這個行政院現在正在作業當中我相信應該很快很快就會送出來您去年的時候5月23打選的時候也講說去年底要有版本我有完成我的承諾速發部"},{"start":170.049,"end":191.791,"text":"市長是,就如剛才主委所說,今年二月把這個立法推動交給本部那相關的一些文字的調整我們已經完成了,但是因為就像委員所說我們現在還會有什麼樣的流程要走,還是我們還要不要再我必須要經過行政院院會審議是,沒有錯,在經過行政院院會審議的時候,速發部送出版本了嗎?"},{"start":192.712,"end":216.986,"text":"這個版本現在已經在行政院已經在行政院了那預計什麼時候能夠出來還要不要遵循外界的意見還是已經有歸納相關了我們會盡量談納大家的意見包括今天委員在委員會的指教那行政院審議的這個流程就不是我這邊能夠回答但是我們相信就是剛剛主委所說的行政院會盡量盡快完成這個程序送請到大院來審議"},{"start":217.486,"end":232.876,"text":"但是可以push跟可以追蹤嘛因為這是國人大家所關心而且各部會大家也都需要這個基本法完之後能夠再來有相關的作業法還有相關的細則 對不對好 主委 那我再請教讓外界比較"},{"start":234.704,"end":261.669,"text":"擔憂的地方啊庶發部成立不到三年但是施政滿意民調其實一直敬佩莫助而且未來有可能是會由庶產署這邊來負責變成是三級機關那很多人講是說其實國科會之前也已經研究了一兩年的時間推動一兩年的時間那現在這個基本法變成是庶發部未來會不會變成是說沒有辦法讓其他部會配合的一個情況"},{"start":262.725,"end":280.439,"text":"不會 我們在行政院你自己怎麼看 如果說國科會跟速發部最大的一個分歧點在哪裡哪一個主管機關對於我們整體的發展會是比較有幫助國科會跟速發部沒有分歧我們是一起在協調 在努力但是現在變成是主管機關就從國科會變速發部了不是嗎"},{"start":282.436,"end":296.708,"text":"未來這個法令的解釋機關會在速發部因為將來在施政的部分直接接觸到人民接觸到產業接觸到各機關團體的主要是速發部在施政的範圍內是嗎"},{"start":298.709,"end":314.714,"text":"本席就講了就是說國人對於過去三年成立的速發部其實是說實在話不是我要把大家撈開我也知道有很多同仁其實是很用心很努力但是很多東西其實速發部過去真的讓國人很難信任譬如說打仗"},{"start":315.974,"end":341.85,"text":"AI現在主委我相信你也可以認同AI的科技日新月異的情況很多的詐騙其實跟AI息息相關那我才上兩個禮拜前詢問說速發部到底現在內政部報速發部我們開發這些社群媒體平台了有沒有結果給我回答居然講是說有廣告不實的情況啦15折現在還在做研議啊我可不可以再請教一下市長來市長"},{"start":345.189,"end":371.056,"text":"4月25號你們跟我回覆當天本來是另外一位次長嘛我在詢答的時候另外一位次長跟我講說內政部沒有送來他自己回答是這樣子那後來改口了書面報告給我的是有啦4月25號有15則廣告出資者不明所以送行政院行政院5月1號的時候交速發部速發部目前處理的狀況是什麼"},{"start":372.978,"end":399.448,"text":"很抱歉 這部分當然不是我督導範圍我所知的跟委員差不多一樣就是說這個經過行政院跨部會審查是有一部分的案件還需要進行調查好 部分案件還需要進行調查那現在5月13號了所以從4月25號到5月13號我姑且即便國人大家想一下 聽一下 看一下姑且即便相信說這個只有15個是你目前知道說出資不明的類似詐騙廣告"},{"start":402.628,"end":425.654,"text":"從425報行政院行政院5月1號交速發布速發布到5月13號了都還沒有相關的作業市長也好 部長也好 主委也好可不可以想一下一個詐騙廣告在那個社群媒體平台上面一天會有多少人看到會有多少國人受騙會有多少詐騙金額一個月我們的統計是將近百億的詐騙金額"},{"start":427.31,"end":448.096,"text":"結果15則不明的廣告出資者一個月過去了到目前為止都還在踢皮球也還沒有找Meta來談或是還是讓Meta陳述意見中那一個月的時間多這一個月多放任了有多少的詐騙嬰兒受害受害者嬰兒受害主委 市長"},{"start":457.529,"end":486.044,"text":"這就是我們一直所關心的也擔憂的就是說我們當成立一個速發部大家國人對你們高度期待然後結果你們現在一個基本法也是互相來推然後就現在詐騙的廣告我們去年成立了打詐釋法通過打詐釋法結果給你們工具到現在一個月即便是這個更不要想內政部講說他已經下架三萬八千則的詐騙廣告但是還有出資者不明的也沒有辦法處理"},{"start":487.874,"end":504.6,"text":"跟我們報告未來會是這樣子牛步嗎跟我們報告我們沒有這個呼啼啤酒的問題我們因為要開罰必須要有法律的依據要有證據所以現在這個程序都在進行當中我現在沒有講說開罰不需要證據沒有錯但是我只是說光這一個月的時間"},{"start":506.281,"end":534.58,"text":"如果說我們面對的樣體群體那麼的明顯不要讓外界覺得是說你們不敢打老虎只敢對個人只敢對一些小用戶真正社群媒體平台Meta也好 YouTube也好 Google也好國際公司我知道啊我自己也是使用者啊但如果說他們獲利或是賺錢的來源是來自於詐騙集團那我們怎麼可能放任讓他們繼續賺錢呢"},{"start":537.661,"end":553.379,"text":"到目前為止有沒有開罰過我們現在正在進行調查進行調查好所以就是沒有開罰來最後我想請教一下主委或是次長我們還是討論一下AI基本法我覺得有一個部分也大家所關心的就是隱私的問題"},{"start":554.44,"end":568.956,"text":"我不知道主委或次長有沒有最近看到諸葛亮已故藝人他有一個演出最近好像前天的一個演出是他用虛擬的影像結合AI變成是他跟現場的藝人來做一個對話"},{"start":570.177,"end":584.831,"text":"而現在的技術已經成熟到他的肢體 條媒 口氣 話語都跟諸葛亮生前是一模一樣幾乎可以講就好像是他拍的我不知道有沒有看到 諸葛亮"},{"start":588.26,"end":603.308,"text":"我沒有看到但是這的確技術已經進步到這個階段對 那這某種程度上如果說他用在正面當然因為他是一個公開演出所以說他有獲得可能他的後人的一個授權或是同意但另外一個方面如果說他用在犯罪上這就是身為技術"},{"start":604.469,"end":624.427,"text":"可以把它給想像成身為技術或是說現在的這個技術虛擬已經成熟到是幾乎辨別不出來那就分別兩個問題當然身為技術有身為技術之前我們討論的刑法但另外一個部分不管是我們現在講的是說之前的這個GPT的那個"},{"start":626.688,"end":651.114,"text":"畫風我們用照片可以轉換成什麼迪士尼風這個卡通風動漫風等等的部分那可能也會有這個AI侵權的一個疑慮或者是現在用這個身為技術來用後人那即便是我仿造這個已故的人士或者是說別人即便是有後代的授權但是有沒有可能還是會有侵權的狀況"},{"start":652.762,"end":671.637,"text":"要講什麼內容或是他要做什麼樣的一個甚至如果說大家覺得反應很好或是說大家真的很懷念朱大哥我自己也覺得說他的主持風格非常好但如果說懷念朱大哥而未來如果說他用這個深為記就是用他的這個影像來去做產品代言行不行"},{"start":675.579,"end":689.966,"text":"這個我覺得都是我們目前法律沒有考慮到但是技術上做得到所以我們定力基本法以及未來的作用法都應該要去考慮的是沒有錯委員講到的是非常重要一個重點就是AI訓練的結果產出必須不能夠侵害智慧產權"},{"start":690.746,"end":713.298,"text":"因為智慧財產權所謂的模仿跟真正的侵害智慧財產權其實是有個案上的差距的那舉例來說他如果單純是模仿或者是某一種畫風那可能這個在成立上面會有一些不太一樣的地方但是他如果以諸葛亮的名義來做的話那就會侵害他的姓名或是肖像權的使用那這個部分其實智慧財產權也不斷在演進當中"},{"start":715.399,"end":738.345,"text":"那我們也會跟經濟部智慧局保持這個密切的聯繫那相關的個案那我相信這個包括智慧財產權也好或是法院也好都是在國際上面都是非常尖端的案例是需要持續來觀察嗎就是因為是尖端案例但已經發生了所以本席才會提出來我覺得這跟現在基本法以及未來我們各部會要訂立作用法的部分有很大的息息相關"},{"start":739.065,"end":754.527,"text":"那還有基本法到底什麼時候出來不確定但是我們各委員會的部門各委員會的版本已經在這邊了我們期待當然有行政院的版本大家可以共同來討論豬跳審查但如果說沒有的話我們沒有辦法繼續等下去那以及本席現在就提出來就說"},{"start":755.228,"end":778.829,"text":"未來像針對這個部分其實應該是各部會業務全責沒有錯您剛才提到說經濟部但是數位運用上面來講我覺得數發部既然是主管機關還是要有一定的一個主導性跟想法我剛就說嘛如果說朱大哥這個事情後人覺得說很好然後大家反應很熱烈他能不能繼續接代言商業利益 商業行為"},{"start":779.943,"end":783.66,"text":"那商業行為譬如說他用虛擬的影像講說這個產品很棒"},{"start":785.441,"end":811.666,"text":"那是他的後人授權決定他後人可能有一些商業的一個合約但是這樣子會不會有一些道德上的一個狀況我覺得不只是這個就是眼神您懂我意思嗎因為這個是一連串我們應該要思考我相信應該也有國外的案例甚至我們也查到美國的案例有美國法庭上面司法在做法庭的一個出庭陳述的時候他就讓"},{"start":812.93,"end":835.348,"text":"被槍殺身亡者他運用AI的還原讓他在法庭上面做意見陳述當然講的內容可能他生前有講過這樣的概念但是不是他當下之後還會講這樣的內容不得而知因為他可能人已經離開了可是這樣子的一個案件這樣的一個案例未來會不會在台灣發生"},{"start":836.858,"end":859.363,"text":"這是證據力的問題對不對還有本席之前也有提過譬如說像現在新聞也有很多的新聞畫面之前有一個新聞是說用AI合成或是說虛擬地震的影片那我們NCC也做開發但是現在也有很多新聞是沒有拍到的畫面他用AI影片來去做生成"},{"start":860.123,"end":888.835,"text":"那是不是應該要加注警語以及要怎麼樣加注警語讓民眾知道說這一段是AI生成影片哪一段是真的採訪影片這一些部分可能都是我們已經都在接受到但是法令還沒有跟上的部分據我所知NCC已經訂定了指引就如委員所說其實透明的義務是最基本的所以再拉回來 主委比較笑多了啦主委 本席語重心長啦"},{"start":890.197,"end":913.209,"text":"過去一年都在教育文化委員會國科會我們很多專業可以共同討論AI人工智慧基本法確實是台灣不能落後於世界基本法也只是第一步第二步相關的部會的一個溝通那既然主委已經在這個領域上面努力了一整年的時間了即便是現在主管機關是速發部但我相信國科會的角色也很重要"},{"start":913.829,"end":922.519,"text":"能夠趕快push出來行政院的版本讓我們可以充分的討論進一步的能夠來完成立法我覺得這才是我們大家共同關心的謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":112,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時35分）謝謝主席。麻煩請吳主委、數發部葉次長。"],["主席：請官員備質詢，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委好。我先延續剛剛羅委員的議題。主委知不知道剛剛羅委員主要問的是什麼樣的問題？"],["吳主任委員誠文：他重視的是人才培育。有關人才培育，包含在實戰場合應用……"],["洪委員孟楷：還有更之前提到的心理諮商部分。"],["吳主任委員誠文：心理諮商也需要培養心理諮商人才，但我們要應用AI，不能讓AI獨立去做……"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，我想問題可能沒有那麼明確。最近有新聞提到，AI比朋友更懂你，因為現在年輕人改用app聊天，你有沒有看到這個新聞？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有看到這則新聞？你知道哪一款app讓現在的年輕人很愛用來聊天？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不曉得。"],["洪委員孟楷：不知道？在今年5月3號有新聞提到和ChatGPT聊天，現在有很多年輕人喜歡和ChatGPT聊天，因為AI可以給很多的情緒價值，某種程度上就衍生出剛剛羅委員所講的，很多的年輕人、學生，甚至未成年人在遇到一些心理因素、感情因素，覺得沒有地方可以傾訴時，就找AI來聊天。至於AI所提供的資料正確與否？有沒有心理諮商的專業？這是另外一個範疇，這也是我們認為人工智慧基本法非常重要的原因所在！訂立基本法之後未來才有作用法及相關範圍可規範，所以衛福部也要納進來，大家共同討論。","去年5月23日您首次來教育及文化委員會，那時候最多人問的議題是什麼？"],["吳主任委員誠文：AI基本法是其中一個。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，就是AI基本法什麼時候要出來？之前吳宗憲委員也講到，那時候歐盟才剛通過基本法草案，但一年過去，從去年5月23日到現在5月14日，快一年時間了，我們還在空中樓閣！當然，國科會有努力，並於去年10月送出案子，但行政院突然在今年2月轉交數發部，沒有講任何理由，不管是國科會還是數發部。請問主委，行政院版本到底什麼時候能夠送出來？"],["吳主任委員誠文：理由我剛剛有報告過，行政院現在正在作業當中，我相信應該很快就會送出來。"],["洪委員孟楷：您在去年5月23日答詢時說去年底會有版本……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我有完成我的承諾……"],["洪委員孟楷：你有完成你的承諾？請教數發部次長。"],["葉次長寧：如同剛才主委所說，今年2月行政院將相關的立法推動工作交給本部，我們也完成一些相關的文字調整。就像委員所說，其實……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在到底還有什麼流程要走？還是我們還要……"],["葉次長寧：我們必須要經過行政院院會審議通過之後才能夠……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，沒有錯。在行政院院會審議前，數發部送出版本了嗎？"],["葉次長寧：版本現在已經在行政院。"],["洪委員孟楷：已經在行政院？預計什麼時候能夠送出來？還要不要徵詢外界的意見？還是已經歸納相關意見了？"],["葉次長寧：我們會儘量含納大家的意見，包括今天委員在委員會的指教，至於行政院審議的流程就不是我所能回答的。但相信如同剛才主委所說，行政院會儘快完成程序，送請大院審議。"],["洪委員孟楷：還是可以push跟追蹤，畢竟這是國人、大家所關心的，而且各部會也都需要這個基本法，之後才能有相關的作用法與細則，對不對？","主委，我再請教，現在外界比較擔憂的地方是，數發部成立不到三年，但施政滿意民調卻一直敬陪末座。這項工作未來可能由數產署負責，甚至變成三級機關，不過很多人說其實國科會之前已經研究一、兩年時間，推動一、兩年時間了，現在基本法變成數發部主管，這樣未來會不會讓其他部會無法配合？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不會，我們在行政院……"],["洪委員孟楷：你自己怎麼看？國科會跟數發部最大的分歧點在哪裡？哪一個主管機關對於整體發展比較有幫助？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會跟數發部沒有分歧，我們一起協調、一起努力……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在的主管機關已經從國科會變成數發部了，不是嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：未來法令的解釋機關在數發部，因為將來的施政需要直接接觸人民、接觸產業、接觸各機關團體，這些主要是數發部的施政範圍……"],["洪委員孟楷：是嘛！那剛剛本席就講了，國人對於過去3年成立的數發部其實是不甚滿意，說實在話，不是我要給大家漏氣，我也知道有很多同仁是很用心、很努力，但是很多東西其實數發部過去真的讓國人很難信任。譬如打詐，主委，我相信你也可以認同，AI科技日新月異的情況下，很多詐騙其實都跟AI息息相關。我才在兩個禮拜前詢問數發部，現在內政部報數發部、我們開罰這些社群媒體平臺，到底有沒有？結果給我回答的居然是說，有廣告不實的情況15則，現在還在做研議。","我可不可以再請教一下次長？次長，4月25號你們給我的回復，當天本來是另外一位次長，我在詢答的時候，另外一位次長跟我說內政部沒有送來，他自己的回答是這樣子。後來改口了，書面報告給我的是有啦！4月25號有15則廣告出資者不明，所以送行政院，行政院5月1號交數發部。數發部目前處理的狀況是什麼？"],["葉次長寧：很抱歉，這個部分當然不是我的督導範圍，我所知的跟委員差不多是一樣，就是這個經過行政院跨部會審查，是有一部分的案件還需要進行調查。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，部分案件還需要進行調查，那現在5月13號了，所以從4月25號到5月13號，國人大家想一下、聽一下、看一下，姑且、即便相信說只有15個是你目前知道的出資不明的類似詐騙廣告，從425報行政院、行政院5月1號交數發部、數發部到5月13號了都還沒有相關的作業。次長也好，主委也好，可不可以想一下，一個詐騙廣告在那個社群媒體平臺上面一天會有多少人看到、會有多少國人受騙、會有多少詐騙金額？一個月我們的統計是將近百億詐騙金額，結果15則不明的廣告出資者，1個月過去了，到目前為止都還在踢皮球，也還沒有找Meta來談，還是讓Meta陳述意見中，那一個月的時間，多這一個月多放任了多少的詐騙，有多少受害者因而受害！主委、次長，這就是我們一直所關心的也擔憂的，當成立了一個數發部，國人大家對你們高度期待，結果你們現在一個基本法也是互相推，然後現在詐騙的廣告，我們去年通過打詐四法，結果給你們工具了，到現在，1個月了，即便是這個，更不要講內政部說他已經下架3萬8,000則詐騙廣告，但還有出資者不明的也沒有辦法處理，未來會是這樣子牛步嗎？"],["葉次長寧：跟委員報告，我們沒有互踢皮球的問題，我們是因為要開罰必須要有法律的依據、要證據，所以現在這個程序都在進行當中。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在沒有講開罰不需要證據，沒有錯，但我指的是，光這1個月的時間，如果我們面對的樣體、群體那麼明顯，不要讓外界覺得你們不敢打老虎，只敢對個人、只敢對一些小用戶，真正是社群媒體平臺的Meta也好，YouTube也好，Google也好，國際公司我知道，我自己也是使用者啊！但如果他們獲利或賺錢的來源是來自於詐騙集團，那我們怎麼可能放任讓他們繼續賺錢？"],["葉次長寧：我們沒有放任……"],["洪委員孟楷：到目前為止有沒有開罰過？"],["葉次長寧：我們現在正在進行調查。"],["洪委員孟楷：進行調查，所以就是沒有開罰。","最後我想請教一下，主委或次長，我們還是討論一下AI基本法，我覺得有一個部分也是大家所關心的，就是隱私的問題。我不知道主委或次長最近有沒有看到，已故藝人豬哥亮有一個演出，最近的好像是前天的一個演出，用虛擬影像結合AI，變成是他跟現場的藝人對話。現在的技術已經成熟到他肢體上的挑眉、口氣、話語都跟豬哥亮生前一模一樣，幾乎可以講就好像是他拍的，我不知道你有沒有看到？主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我沒有看到，但是的確技術已經進步到這個階段。"],["洪委員孟楷：對，某種程度上，如果它用在正面上，當然因為它是一個公開演出，所以有獲得可能他後人的授權或同意，但另外一方面，如果它用在犯罪上，這就是深偽技術，可以把它想像成是深偽技術，或者說現在這個技術、虛擬已經成熟到是幾乎辨別不出來。那就分別有兩個問題，當然就深偽技術，之前我們討論了刑法，但另外一個部分，不管是我們講的，之前GPT的畫風，我們用照片可以轉換成什麼迪士尼風、卡通風、動漫風等等的部分，可能也會有AI侵權的疑慮，或者是現在用深偽技術，我仿照已故人士或者是別人，即便有後代的授權，但有沒有可能還是會有侵權的狀況？他要講什麼內容或是他要做什麼樣的動作，甚至如果大家的反應很好，或是大家真的很懷念豬大哥，我自己也覺得他的主持風格非常好，但懷念豬大哥，而未來如果用他的影像來做產品代言，行不行？這個我覺得都是我們目前法令沒有考慮到，但是技術上做得到，所以我們訂立基本法以及未來的作用法都應該要去考慮，對不對？"],["葉次長寧：是，沒有錯，委員講到的是非常重要的一個重點，就是AI訓練的結果產出必須不能夠侵害智慧財產權，所謂的模仿跟真正的侵害智慧財產權其實是有個案上的差距。舉例來說，他如果單純是模仿或者是某一種畫風，可能這個在成立上面會有一些不太一樣的地方，但是他如果以豬哥亮的名義來做的話，那就會侵害他的姓名或肖像權的使用。這個部分其實智慧財產權也不斷在演進當中，那我們也會跟經濟部智慧財產局保持密切聯繫，相關的個案，我相信包括智慧財產局來的也好，或是法院來的也好，在國際上面都是非常尖端的案例，是需要持續觀察、努力的。"],["洪委員孟楷：就因為是尖端案例，但已經發生了，所以本席才會提出來，我覺得這跟現在基本法以及未來各部會要訂立作用法的部分非常息息相關。還有基本法到底什麼時候出來？不確定，但是各委員的版本已經在這邊了，當然我們期待有行政院的版本，大家可以共同討論逐條審查，但如果沒有的話，我們也沒有辦法繼續等下去。以及本席現在就提出來，未來像針對這個部分，其實應該是各部會業務權責，沒有錯，您剛才也提到經濟部，但數位運用上面來講，我覺得數發部既然是主管機關，還是要有一定的主導性跟想法。我剛剛就說，如果豬大哥這個是後人覺得很好，然後大家的反應很熱烈，他能不能繼續接代言？商業利益、商業行為。那商業行為，譬如他用虛擬影像講這個產品很棒，那是他的後人授權決定，他後人可能有一些商業合約，但這樣子會不會有一些道德上的狀況？我覺得不只是這個，就是衍生，您懂我的意思嗎？"],["葉次長寧：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為這個是一連串我們應該要思考的，我相信應該也有國外的案例，甚至我們也查到美國的案例，美國法庭上面在做出庭陳述的時候，他就讓被槍殺身亡者，運用AI還原讓他在法庭上面做意見陳述，當然講的內容，可能他生前有講過這樣的概念，但是不是他當下之後還會講這樣的內容不得而知，因為他人已經離開了。可是這樣子的一個案例，未來會不會在臺灣發生？"],["葉次長寧：這是證據力的問題，在談刑事訴訟法。"],["洪委員孟楷：對不對？還有本席之前也提過，譬如像現在也有很多的新聞畫面，之前有一個新聞是用AI合成或虛擬地震的影片，NCC也開罰，但現在也有很多新聞是沒有拍到的畫面他用AI影片去生成，那是不是應該要加註警語，以及要怎麼樣加註警語讓民眾知道這一段是AI生成影片、哪一段是真的採訪影片？這一些可能是我們已經都接受到了，但是法令還沒有跟上的部分。"],["葉次長寧：據我所知，NCC已經訂定了指引，就如委員所說的，其實透明的義務是最基本的。"],["洪委員孟楷：再拉回來，主委，稍微笑一下啦！本席語重心長，過去1年都在教育及文化委員會，對國科會，我們就很多專業可以共同討論，AI人工智慧基本法，確實臺灣不能落後於世界，基本法也只是第一步，第二步是相關部會的溝通，既然主委已經在這個領域上面努力了一整年的時間，即便現在主管機關是數發部，我相信國科會的角色也很重要，能夠趕快push出來行政院的版本，讓我們可以充分討論，進一步完成立法，這才是我們大家共同關心的。謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員質詢。官員請回座。","接下來請柯志恩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-22,23-1","speakers":["葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳宗憲","張嘉郡","洪孟楷","柯志恩","李昆澤","林俊憲","陳素月","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","葉元之","蔡其昌","劉書彬","萬美玲","張雅琳","郭昱晴","何欣純","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","游顥","徐富癸","吳沛憶","謝龍介","楊瓊瓔","范雲","林沛祥","邱若華","廖先翔","許宇甄","邱志偉"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-05-14"],"gazette_id":"1144802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144802_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員葛如鈞等37人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；二、審查委員邱若華等 17 人擬具\n「人工智慧基本法草案」案；三、審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；四、\n審查委員萬美玲等18人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；五、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「人工\n智慧基本法草案」案；六、審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；七、審查委\n員林倩綺等23人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案 （僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1144802_00004"}}}