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00:01:21,111\n部長也有表示會跟我們像環境部會跟勞動部經濟部我們一起成立跨部會的淨零職場的轉型平台那這個平台現在建立了嗎報告委員你提到那個報告是勞動部當年委託學者做的報告啦那他有很多的這個假設那我也跟那個洪森漢洪部長討論過那個報告\n\n5\n00:01:22,711 --> 00:01:35,003\n那基本上我知道那個報告沒有繼續做下去了因為我們都是這個領域做的人啦所以知道說像我們看到綠領的工作機會多在增加那我們現在還看不到任何一家企業因為淨領開始這個裁員所以目前來看的話\n\n6\n00:01:38,746 --> 00:02:04,851\n那份報告是學者他一些推估啦所以我們認為可以拿來做政策的可信度的使用程度並不高所以這個是也跟委員報告那另外一個呢是其實這個勞動部洪森漢副部長很重視這個問題所以在包含了5月1號有一些勞動勞工朋友的這個代表提出一些七個建言其中有一項就是淨零所以目前的確我們跟勞動部有合作一個平台準備就要討論針對這種勞工未來\n\n7\n00:02:07,811 --> 00:02:36,027\n他要進行公正轉型或是說淨零的時候他們需要如何的參與所以我們準備要來談這個事情了所以部長意思是說這個淨零轉型不會衝擊到這些產業嗎那個可以再算但是我必須說之前去年那份委託的研究報告我自己從我個人的角度因為我必須那個是勞動部委託的計畫啦但是從我自己這個領域的專業來看的話那份報告參考價值度不高啦\n\n8\n00:02:37,648 --> 00:02:51,079\n對那我請問部長那如果我們這個近年轉型推動的部分那你們應該也有評估啊那像這會不會像我們剛剛講你說這只是他們的預估那有沒有可能事實上真的會衝擊到這些產業\n\n9\n00:02:52,740 --> 00:03:17,805\n我們觀察現在的確有一些產業它是非常傳統的然後它甚至本身已經沒有國際競爭力的那它的確在這波壓力之下可能會被迫有一些調整這個我們一直密切在注意但是目前這樣的案例不多那我們現在的確會想要跟勞動部一起來合作來探討來做超前的部署假設有些企業遇到這樣的狀況真的是屬實的話那我們該怎麼辦的確我們在討論這個事情\n\n10\n00:03:21,346 --> 00:03:37,762\n對啊部長其實你剛剛講沒有錯其實真的要超前部署你不能等到確實已經一堆人失業了你再來規劃要去做所以我就說居然專家學者有這一部分的評估有這一部分的隱憂勢必你在推動近年轉型確實有些\n\n11\n00:03:40,884 --> 00:04:06,532\n產業絕對會受到這些衝擊那所以勞動部他他們有去做這個報告那我們現在也是說希望針對這個報告的部分那我們環境部也希望喔能夠在這之前超前部署是不是針對我們有可能這些失業造成衝擊的產業像我們有收這個碳費是不是也應該去補助做一些人才培訓這一方面的訓練課程\n\n12\n00:04:07,992 --> 00:04:28,020\n對包委員其實我們的綠領裡面就有一項是跟勞動部合作的那當然我必須說這份報告呢就僅供參考用這個就我們現在的這個政策的落實性可以當成我們治理性可行性不高啦這份報告但是我們很密切注意這個事情所以未來呢如果有碳費甚至我也跟洪部長\n\n13\n00:04:29,781 --> 00:04:57,579\n這個討論說我們是不是加大那個力道讓勞工朋友多一點增能的一個空間這個就是我們綠領在做的事情對因為他照這樣子來評估其實我們也擔心說萬一淨零轉型去做之後造成這些產業的衝擊那我們現在比較擔心就是說這些產業他其實到時候如果這些人才他要轉型的時候勢必他們的部分他們是屬於\n\n14\n00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:26,730\n因為已經就業可能10年以上那年齡一定都是比較高屬於中高年再加上這些產業其實整體它的教育程度來講都是比較低那我後來也看一些我們針對我們補助的重點像我們環境部跟工研院有在推動綠領人才培訓跟補助這些辦法好像重點都是放在30歲以下跟大專學歷以上\n\n15\n00:05:27,650 --> 00:05:50,018\n為主要對象那當然你們這個推動最主要目的是希望能夠把一些新血新血輪來加入這些行列那可是我們覺得說你加入新血輪當然勢必重要可是現有勞動力的這些轉型是不是我們應該也要有一些相關的措施去輔導他們\n\n16\n00:05:51,759 --> 00:06:15,649\n委員提議是非常好目前就是我們會透過勞動部那個平台來討論這個事情因為說真的勞動部他的資源比環境部來對於勞工的輔導他們更了解怎麼幫助勞工那我們這邊就是屬於綠領的人才的培訓所以這個部分我們的確是已經約了時間近期就會來見面來談這個媒合的事情如何來合作\n\n17\n00:06:16,329 --> 00:06:32,269\n對啊所以那時候部長也有提到你像因為我們現在推動淨零轉型那勢必環境部勞動部跟經濟部這個跨部會的合作真的是很重要那你當然說那一部分那個專家學者勞動部他所做的報告\n\n18\n00:06:33,110 --> 00:06:50,517\n當然可能是站在他立場去做一些評估但是我們也是擔心說勢必對這些產業多少一定會有受到相當的衝擊可能未必是他評估的這麼的嚴重但是這一部分也值得我們注意就是我們在培訓的部分不能把重點\n\n19\n00:06:51,397 --> 00:07:19,756\n都放在新血輪的加入而且這些年輕而且學歷高其實整體上他們在產業的就業率來講其實他的條件一定是比較好那我們現在就是擔心這些中高齡他轉型而且本身他的學歷並不是像這些新血輪你們現在補助的學歷這麼高那反而到時候他們要轉型就業成為綠領人才反而如果我們沒有\n\n20\n00:07:20,256 --> 00:07:36,338\n去補助他們去培訓他們勢必對他們來講到時候轉型一定是有很大的問題那加上我們環境部有收這個碳費所以我們才想說是不是部長在針對碳費這部分來補助我們這些人才的轉型\n\n21\n00:07:37,259 --> 00:08:05,752\n好謝謝委員的蠻好建議因為我們碳費明年才會收到啦然後那如果說未來從這個公正轉型的角度的確委員提到的一個特別是高齡或是學歷比較低或是年資很長的這個族群的確是我們可以來列入考慮在裡面等於是我們今年可以說是先開始先對年輕朋友那未來呢包含委員提的原住民新住民等等這個我們的確可以來納入考慮那我們也會跨部會例如說像\n\n22\n00:08:06,192 --> 00:08:31,484\n原住民其實就必須跟原住民委員會來談如何來媒合因為這部分我們今天會提出當然我們就希望未雨綢繆啦你不要等到一堆人拿失業的時候我們再來尋求這個解套方式那就太慢了所以剛剛部長也有看到所以我們希望目前我們環境部跟工研院推動的部分是屬於比較年輕高學歷的我們希望能夠針對這部分我們來研議擴大補助的對象\n\n23\n00:08:35,186 --> 00:09:04,328\n就像我们原住民薰住民还有二度就业的妇女还有中高龄这些有可能面临失业转型的这一部分我们现在严领来补助希望能够针对绿领人才的培训我们环境部也来出来协助我们劳动部甚至其他各部会来让这个补助计划能够顺利的来推动好没问题委员的建议我们会考虑谢谢好谢谢部长谢谢好谢谢图全级委员\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n309\t11792\t圖全集委員發言好謝謝主席請我們彭部長請彭部長委員好部長那\n18721\t46522\t當然我們現在我國在積極推動淨零轉型嘛那現在是我們的重要工作那勢必高碳排高耗能這些產業一定是首當其衝那我看你去年也有指出像我們電子零組件金屬製品批發零售業這些行業勢必會受到我們這些我們短期因為推動淨零轉型的這些衝擊那也看我們\n47242\t56856\t你那時候會指出我們可能預估2025年失業人口大概會超過1萬到2050年失業人口可能會超過4萬那\n59383\t81111\t部長也有表示會跟我們像環境部會跟勞動部經濟部我們一起成立跨部會的淨零職場的轉型平台那這個平台現在建立了嗎報告委員你提到那個報告是勞動部當年委託學者做的報告啦那他有很多的這個假設那我也跟那個洪森漢洪部長討論過那個報告\n82711\t95003\t那基本上我知道那個報告沒有繼續做下去了因為我們都是這個領域做的人啦所以知道說像我們看到綠領的工作機會多在增加那我們現在還看不到任何一家企業因為淨領開始這個裁員所以目前來看的話\n98746\t124851\t那份報告是學者他一些推估啦所以我們認為可以拿來做政策的可信度的使用程度並不高所以這個是也跟委員報告那另外一個呢是其實這個勞動部洪森漢副部長很重視這個問題所以在包含了5月1號有一些勞動勞工朋友的這個代表提出一些七個建言其中有一項就是淨零所以目前的確我們跟勞動部有合作一個平台準備就要討論針對這種勞工未來\n127811\t156027\t他要進行公正轉型或是說淨零的時候他們需要如何的參與所以我們準備要來談這個事情了所以部長意思是說這個淨零轉型不會衝擊到這些產業嗎那個可以再算但是我必須說之前去年那份委託的研究報告我自己從我個人的角度因為我必須那個是勞動部委託的計畫啦但是從我自己這個領域的專業來看的話那份報告參考價值度不高啦\n157648\t171079\t對那我請問部長那如果我們這個近年轉型推動的部分那你們應該也有評估啊那像這會不會像我們剛剛講你說這只是他們的預估那有沒有可能事實上真的會衝擊到這些產業\n172740\t197805\t我們觀察現在的確有一些產業它是非常傳統的然後它甚至本身已經沒有國際競爭力的那它的確在這波壓力之下可能會被迫有一些調整這個我們一直密切在注意但是目前這樣的案例不多那我們現在的確會想要跟勞動部一起來合作來探討來做超前的部署假設有些企業遇到這樣的狀況真的是屬實的話那我們該怎麼辦的確我們在討論這個事情\n201346\t217762\t對啊部長其實你剛剛講沒有錯其實真的要超前部署你不能等到確實已經一堆人失業了你再來規劃要去做所以我就說居然專家學者有這一部分的評估有這一部分的隱憂勢必你在推動近年轉型確實有些\n220884\t246532\t產業絕對會受到這些衝擊那所以勞動部他他們有去做這個報告那我們現在也是說希望針對這個報告的部分那我們環境部也希望喔能夠在這之前超前部署是不是針對我們有可能這些失業造成衝擊的產業像我們有收這個碳費是不是也應該去補助做一些人才培訓這一方面的訓練課程\n247992\t268020\t對 包委員其實我們的綠領裡面就有一項是跟勞動部合作的那當然我必須說這份報告呢就僅供參考用這個就我們現在的這個政策的落實性可以當成我們治理性可行性不高啦這份報告但是我們很密切注意這個事情所以未來呢如果有碳費甚至我也跟洪部長\n269781\t297579\t這個討論說我們是不是加大那個力道讓勞工朋友多一點增能的一個空間這個就是我們綠領在做的事情對因為他照這樣子來評估其實我們也擔心說萬一淨零轉型去做之後造成這些產業的衝擊那我們現在比較擔心就是說這些產業他其實到時候如果這些人才他要轉型的時候勢必他們的部分他們是屬於\n298760\t326730\t因為已經就業可能10年以上那年齡一定都是比較高屬於中高年再加上這些產業其實整體它的教育程度來講都是比較低那我後來也看一些我們針對我們補助的重點像我們環境部跟工研院有在推動綠領人才培訓跟補助這些辦法好像重點都是放在30歲以下跟大專學歷以上\n327650\t350018\t為主要對象那當然你們這個推動最主要目的是希望能夠把一些新血新血輪來加入這些行列那可是我們覺得說你加入新血輪當然勢必重要可是現有勞動力的這些轉型是不是我們應該也要有一些相關的措施去輔導他們\n351759\t375649\t委員提議是非常好目前就是我們會透過勞動部那個平台來討論這個事情因為說真的勞動部他的資源比環境部來對於勞工的輔導他們更了解怎麼幫助勞工那我們這邊就是屬於綠領的人才的培訓所以這個部分我們的確是已經約了時間近期就會來見面來談這個媒合的事情如何來合作\n376329\t392269\t對啊 所以那時候部長也有提到你像因為我們現在推動淨零轉型那勢必環境部勞動部跟經濟部這個跨部會的合作真的是很重要那你當然說那一部分那個專家學者勞動部他所做的報告\n393110\t410517\t當然可能是站在他立場去做一些評估但是我們也是擔心說勢必對這些產業多少一定會有受到相當的衝擊可能未必是他評估的這麼的嚴重但是這一部分也值得我們注意就是我們在培訓的部分不能把重點\n411397\t439756\t都放在新血輪的加入而且這些年輕而且學歷高其實整體上他們在產業的就業率來講其實他的條件一定是比較好那我們現在就是擔心這些中高齡他轉型而且本身他的學歷並不是像這些新血輪你們現在補助的學歷這麼高那反而到時候他們要轉型就業成為綠領人才反而如果我們沒有\n440256\t456338\t去補助他們去培訓他們勢必對他們來講到時候轉型一定是有很大的問題那加上我們環境部有收這個碳費所以我們才想說是不是部長在針對碳費這部分來補助我們這些人才的轉型\n457259\t485752\t好謝謝委員的蠻好建議因為我們碳費明年才會收到啦然後那如果說未來從這個公正轉型的角度的確委員提到的一個特別是高齡或是學歷比較低或是年資很長的這個族群的確是我們可以來列入考慮在裡面等於是我們今年可以說是先開始先對年輕朋友那未來呢包含委員提的原住民新住民等等這個我們的確可以來納入考慮那我們也會跨部會例如說像\n486192\t511484\t原住民其實就必須跟原住民委員會來談如何來媒合因為這部分我們今天會提出當然我們就希望未雨綢繆啦你不要等到一堆人拿失業的時候我們再來尋求這個解套方式那就太慢了所以剛剛部長也有看到所以我們希望目前我們環境部跟工研院推動的部分是屬於比較年輕高學歷的我們希望能夠針對這部分我們來研議擴大補助的對象\n515186\t544328\t就像我们原住民薰住民还有二度就业的妇女还有中高龄这些有可能面临失业转型的这一部分我们现在严领来补助希望能够针对绿领人才的培训我们环境部也来出来协助我们劳动部甚至其他各部会来让这个补助计划能够顺利的来推动好没问题委员的建议我们会考虑谢谢好谢谢部长谢谢好谢谢图全级委员\n","txt":"圖全集委員發言好謝謝主席請我們彭部長請彭部長委員好部長那\n當然我們現在我國在積極推動淨零轉型嘛那現在是我們的重要工作那勢必高碳排高耗能這些產業一定是首當其衝那我看你去年也有指出像我們電子零組件金屬製品批發零售業這些行業勢必會受到我們這些我們短期因為推動淨零轉型的這些衝擊那也看我們\n你那時候會指出我們可能預估2025年失業人口大概會超過1萬到2050年失業人口可能會超過4萬那\n部長也有表示會跟我們像環境部會跟勞動部經濟部我們一起成立跨部會的淨零職場的轉型平台那這個平台現在建立了嗎報告委員你提到那個報告是勞動部當年委託學者做的報告啦那他有很多的這個假設那我也跟那個洪森漢洪部長討論過那個報告\n那基本上我知道那個報告沒有繼續做下去了因為我們都是這個領域做的人啦所以知道說像我們看到綠領的工作機會多在增加那我們現在還看不到任何一家企業因為淨領開始這個裁員所以目前來看的話\n那份報告是學者他一些推估啦所以我們認為可以拿來做政策的可信度的使用程度並不高所以這個是也跟委員報告那另外一個呢是其實這個勞動部洪森漢副部長很重視這個問題所以在包含了5月1號有一些勞動勞工朋友的這個代表提出一些七個建言其中有一項就是淨零所以目前的確我們跟勞動部有合作一個平台準備就要討論針對這種勞工未來\n他要進行公正轉型或是說淨零的時候他們需要如何的參與所以我們準備要來談這個事情了所以部長意思是說這個淨零轉型不會衝擊到這些產業嗎那個可以再算但是我必須說之前去年那份委託的研究報告我自己從我個人的角度因為我必須那個是勞動部委託的計畫啦但是從我自己這個領域的專業來看的話那份報告參考價值度不高啦\n對那我請問部長那如果我們這個近年轉型推動的部分那你們應該也有評估啊那像這會不會像我們剛剛講你說這只是他們的預估那有沒有可能事實上真的會衝擊到這些產業\n我們觀察現在的確有一些產業它是非常傳統的然後它甚至本身已經沒有國際競爭力的那它的確在這波壓力之下可能會被迫有一些調整這個我們一直密切在注意但是目前這樣的案例不多那我們現在的確會想要跟勞動部一起來合作來探討來做超前的部署假設有些企業遇到這樣的狀況真的是屬實的話那我們該怎麼辦的確我們在討論這個事情\n對啊部長其實你剛剛講沒有錯其實真的要超前部署你不能等到確實已經一堆人失業了你再來規劃要去做所以我就說居然專家學者有這一部分的評估有這一部分的隱憂勢必你在推動近年轉型確實有些\n產業絕對會受到這些衝擊那所以勞動部他他們有去做這個報告那我們現在也是說希望針對這個報告的部分那我們環境部也希望喔能夠在這之前超前部署是不是針對我們有可能這些失業造成衝擊的產業像我們有收這個碳費是不是也應該去補助做一些人才培訓這一方面的訓練課程\n對 包委員其實我們的綠領裡面就有一項是跟勞動部合作的那當然我必須說這份報告呢就僅供參考用這個就我們現在的這個政策的落實性可以當成我們治理性可行性不高啦這份報告但是我們很密切注意這個事情所以未來呢如果有碳費甚至我也跟洪部長\n這個討論說我們是不是加大那個力道讓勞工朋友多一點增能的一個空間這個就是我們綠領在做的事情對因為他照這樣子來評估其實我們也擔心說萬一淨零轉型去做之後造成這些產業的衝擊那我們現在比較擔心就是說這些產業他其實到時候如果這些人才他要轉型的時候勢必他們的部分他們是屬於\n因為已經就業可能10年以上那年齡一定都是比較高屬於中高年再加上這些產業其實整體它的教育程度來講都是比較低那我後來也看一些我們針對我們補助的重點像我們環境部跟工研院有在推動綠領人才培訓跟補助這些辦法好像重點都是放在30歲以下跟大專學歷以上\n為主要對象那當然你們這個推動最主要目的是希望能夠把一些新血新血輪來加入這些行列那可是我們覺得說你加入新血輪當然勢必重要可是現有勞動力的這些轉型是不是我們應該也要有一些相關的措施去輔導他們\n委員提議是非常好目前就是我們會透過勞動部那個平台來討論這個事情因為說真的勞動部他的資源比環境部來對於勞工的輔導他們更了解怎麼幫助勞工那我們這邊就是屬於綠領的人才的培訓所以這個部分我們的確是已經約了時間近期就會來見面來談這個媒合的事情如何來合作\n對啊 所以那時候部長也有提到你像因為我們現在推動淨零轉型那勢必環境部勞動部跟經濟部這個跨部會的合作真的是很重要那你當然說那一部分那個專家學者勞動部他所做的報告\n當然可能是站在他立場去做一些評估但是我們也是擔心說勢必對這些產業多少一定會有受到相當的衝擊可能未必是他評估的這麼的嚴重但是這一部分也值得我們注意就是我們在培訓的部分不能把重點\n都放在新血輪的加入而且這些年輕而且學歷高其實整體上他們在產業的就業率來講其實他的條件一定是比較好那我們現在就是擔心這些中高齡他轉型而且本身他的學歷並不是像這些新血輪你們現在補助的學歷這麼高那反而到時候他們要轉型就業成為綠領人才反而如果我們沒有\n去補助他們去培訓他們勢必對他們來講到時候轉型一定是有很大的問題那加上我們環境部有收這個碳費所以我們才想說是不是部長在針對碳費這部分來補助我們這些人才的轉型\n好謝謝委員的蠻好建議因為我們碳費明年才會收到啦然後那如果說未來從這個公正轉型的角度的確委員提到的一個特別是高齡或是學歷比較低或是年資很長的這個族群的確是我們可以來列入考慮在裡面等於是我們今年可以說是先開始先對年輕朋友那未來呢包含委員提的原住民新住民等等這個我們的確可以來納入考慮那我們也會跨部會例如說像\n原住民其實就必須跟原住民委員會來談如何來媒合因為這部分我們今天會提出當然我們就希望未雨綢繆啦你不要等到一堆人拿失業的時候我們再來尋求這個解套方式那就太慢了所以剛剛部長也有看到所以我們希望目前我們環境部跟工研院推動的部分是屬於比較年輕高學歷的我們希望能夠針對這部分我們來研議擴大補助的對象\n就像我们原住民薰住民还有二度就业的妇女还有中高龄这些有可能面临失业转型的这一部分我们现在严领来补助希望能够针对绿领人才的培训我们环境部也来出来协助我们劳动部甚至其他各部会来让这个补助计划能够顺利的来推动好没问题委员的建议我们会考虑谢谢好谢谢部长谢谢好谢谢图全级委员\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.309 --> 00:11.792\n圖全集委員發言好謝謝主席請我們彭部長請彭部長委員好部長那\n\n00:18.721 --> 00:46.522\n當然我們現在我國在積極推動淨零轉型嘛那現在是我們的重要工作那勢必高碳排高耗能這些產業一定是首當其衝那我看你去年也有指出像我們電子零組件金屬製品批發零售業這些行業勢必會受到我們這些我們短期因為推動淨零轉型的這些衝擊那也看我們\n\n00:47.242 --> 00:56.856\n你那時候會指出我們可能預估2025年失業人口大概會超過1萬到2050年失業人口可能會超過4萬那\n\n00:59.383 --> 01:21.111\n部長也有表示會跟我們像環境部會跟勞動部經濟部我們一起成立跨部會的淨零職場的轉型平台那這個平台現在建立了嗎報告委員你提到那個報告是勞動部當年委託學者做的報告啦那他有很多的這個假設那我也跟那個洪森漢洪部長討論過那個報告\n\n01:22.711 --> 01:35.003\n那基本上我知道那個報告沒有繼續做下去了因為我們都是這個領域做的人啦所以知道說像我們看到綠領的工作機會多在增加那我們現在還看不到任何一家企業因為淨領開始這個裁員所以目前來看的話\n\n01:38.746 --> 02:04.851\n那份報告是學者他一些推估啦所以我們認為可以拿來做政策的可信度的使用程度並不高所以這個是也跟委員報告那另外一個呢是其實這個勞動部洪森漢副部長很重視這個問題所以在包含了5月1號有一些勞動勞工朋友的這個代表提出一些七個建言其中有一項就是淨零所以目前的確我們跟勞動部有合作一個平台準備就要討論針對這種勞工未來\n\n02:07.811 --> 02:36.027\n他要進行公正轉型或是說淨零的時候他們需要如何的參與所以我們準備要來談這個事情了所以部長意思是說這個淨零轉型不會衝擊到這些產業嗎那個可以再算但是我必須說之前去年那份委託的研究報告我自己從我個人的角度因為我必須那個是勞動部委託的計畫啦但是從我自己這個領域的專業來看的話那份報告參考價值度不高啦\n\n02:37.648 --> 02:51.079\n對那我請問部長那如果我們這個近年轉型推動的部分那你們應該也有評估啊那像這會不會像我們剛剛講你說這只是他們的預估那有沒有可能事實上真的會衝擊到這些產業\n\n02:52.740 --> 03:17.805\n我們觀察現在的確有一些產業它是非常傳統的然後它甚至本身已經沒有國際競爭力的那它的確在這波壓力之下可能會被迫有一些調整這個我們一直密切在注意但是目前這樣的案例不多那我們現在的確會想要跟勞動部一起來合作來探討來做超前的部署假設有些企業遇到這樣的狀況真的是屬實的話那我們該怎麼辦的確我們在討論這個事情\n\n03:21.346 --> 03:37.762\n對啊部長其實你剛剛講沒有錯其實真的要超前部署你不能等到確實已經一堆人失業了你再來規劃要去做所以我就說居然專家學者有這一部分的評估有這一部分的隱憂勢必你在推動近年轉型確實有些\n\n03:40.884 --> 04:06.532\n產業絕對會受到這些衝擊那所以勞動部他他們有去做這個報告那我們現在也是說希望針對這個報告的部分那我們環境部也希望喔能夠在這之前超前部署是不是針對我們有可能這些失業造成衝擊的產業像我們有收這個碳費是不是也應該去補助做一些人才培訓這一方面的訓練課程\n\n04:07.992 --> 04:28.020\n對包委員其實我們的綠領裡面就有一項是跟勞動部合作的那當然我必須說這份報告呢就僅供參考用這個就我們現在的這個政策的落實性可以當成我們治理性可行性不高啦這份報告但是我們很密切注意這個事情所以未來呢如果有碳費甚至我也跟洪部長\n\n04:29.781 --> 04:57.579\n這個討論說我們是不是加大那個力道讓勞工朋友多一點增能的一個空間這個就是我們綠領在做的事情對因為他照這樣子來評估其實我們也擔心說萬一淨零轉型去做之後造成這些產業的衝擊那我們現在比較擔心就是說這些產業他其實到時候如果這些人才他要轉型的時候勢必他們的部分他們是屬於\n\n04:58.760 --> 05:26.730\n因為已經就業可能10年以上那年齡一定都是比較高屬於中高年再加上這些產業其實整體它的教育程度來講都是比較低那我後來也看一些我們針對我們補助的重點像我們環境部跟工研院有在推動綠領人才培訓跟補助這些辦法好像重點都是放在30歲以下跟大專學歷以上\n\n05:27.650 --> 05:50.018\n為主要對象那當然你們這個推動最主要目的是希望能夠把一些新血新血輪來加入這些行列那可是我們覺得說你加入新血輪當然勢必重要可是現有勞動力的這些轉型是不是我們應該也要有一些相關的措施去輔導他們\n\n05:51.759 --> 06:15.649\n委員提議是非常好目前就是我們會透過勞動部那個平台來討論這個事情因為說真的勞動部他的資源比環境部來對於勞工的輔導他們更了解怎麼幫助勞工那我們這邊就是屬於綠領的人才的培訓所以這個部分我們的確是已經約了時間近期就會來見面來談這個媒合的事情如何來合作\n\n06:16.329 --> 06:32.269\n對啊所以那時候部長也有提到你像因為我們現在推動淨零轉型那勢必環境部勞動部跟經濟部這個跨部會的合作真的是很重要那你當然說那一部分那個專家學者勞動部他所做的報告\n\n06:33.110 --> 06:50.517\n當然可能是站在他立場去做一些評估但是我們也是擔心說勢必對這些產業多少一定會有受到相當的衝擊可能未必是他評估的這麼的嚴重但是這一部分也值得我們注意就是我們在培訓的部分不能把重點\n\n06:51.397 --> 07:19.756\n都放在新血輪的加入而且這些年輕而且學歷高其實整體上他們在產業的就業率來講其實他的條件一定是比較好那我們現在就是擔心這些中高齡他轉型而且本身他的學歷並不是像這些新血輪你們現在補助的學歷這麼高那反而到時候他們要轉型就業成為綠領人才反而如果我們沒有\n\n07:20.256 --> 07:36.338\n去補助他們去培訓他們勢必對他們來講到時候轉型一定是有很大的問題那加上我們環境部有收這個碳費所以我們才想說是不是部長在針對碳費這部分來補助我們這些人才的轉型\n\n07:37.259 --> 08:05.752\n好謝謝委員的蠻好建議因為我們碳費明年才會收到啦然後那如果說未來從這個公正轉型的角度的確委員提到的一個特別是高齡或是學歷比較低或是年資很長的這個族群的確是我們可以來列入考慮在裡面等於是我們今年可以說是先開始先對年輕朋友那未來呢包含委員提的原住民新住民等等這個我們的確可以來納入考慮那我們也會跨部會例如說像\n\n08:06.192 --> 08:31.484\n原住民其實就必須跟原住民委員會來談如何來媒合因為這部分我們今天會提出當然我們就希望未雨綢繆啦你不要等到一堆人拿失業的時候我們再來尋求這個解套方式那就太慢了所以剛剛部長也有看到所以我們希望目前我們環境部跟工研院推動的部分是屬於比較年輕高學歷的我們希望能夠針對這部分我們來研議擴大補助的對象\n\n08:35.186 --> 09:04.328\n就像我们原住民薰住民还有二度就业的妇女还有中高龄这些有可能面临失业转型的这一部分我们现在严领来补助希望能够针对绿领人才的培训我们环境部也来出来协助我们劳动部甚至其他各部会来让这个补助计划能够顺利的来推动好没问题委员的建议我们会考虑谢谢好谢谢部长谢谢好谢谢图全级委员\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.309,"end":11.792,"text":"圖全集委員發言好謝謝主席請我們彭部長請彭部長委員好部長那"},{"start":18.721,"end":46.522,"text":"當然我們現在我國在積極推動淨零轉型嘛那現在是我們的重要工作那勢必高碳排高耗能這些產業一定是首當其衝那我看你去年也有指出像我們電子零組件金屬製品批發零售業這些行業勢必會受到我們這些我們短期因為推動淨零轉型的這些衝擊那也看我們"},{"start":47.242,"end":56.856,"text":"你那時候會指出我們可能預估2025年失業人口大概會超過1萬到2050年失業人口可能會超過4萬那"},{"start":59.383,"end":81.111,"text":"部長也有表示會跟我們像環境部會跟勞動部經濟部我們一起成立跨部會的淨零職場的轉型平台那這個平台現在建立了嗎報告委員你提到那個報告是勞動部當年委託學者做的報告啦那他有很多的這個假設那我也跟那個洪森漢洪部長討論過那個報告"},{"start":82.711,"end":95.003,"text":"那基本上我知道那個報告沒有繼續做下去了因為我們都是這個領域做的人啦所以知道說像我們看到綠領的工作機會多在增加那我們現在還看不到任何一家企業因為淨領開始這個裁員所以目前來看的話"},{"start":98.746,"end":124.851,"text":"那份報告是學者他一些推估啦所以我們認為可以拿來做政策的可信度的使用程度並不高所以這個是也跟委員報告那另外一個呢是其實這個勞動部洪森漢副部長很重視這個問題所以在包含了5月1號有一些勞動勞工朋友的這個代表提出一些七個建言其中有一項就是淨零所以目前的確我們跟勞動部有合作一個平台準備就要討論針對這種勞工未來"},{"start":127.811,"end":156.027,"text":"他要進行公正轉型或是說淨零的時候他們需要如何的參與所以我們準備要來談這個事情了所以部長意思是說這個淨零轉型不會衝擊到這些產業嗎那個可以再算但是我必須說之前去年那份委託的研究報告我自己從我個人的角度因為我必須那個是勞動部委託的計畫啦但是從我自己這個領域的專業來看的話那份報告參考價值度不高啦"},{"start":157.648,"end":171.079,"text":"對那我請問部長那如果我們這個近年轉型推動的部分那你們應該也有評估啊那像這會不會像我們剛剛講你說這只是他們的預估那有沒有可能事實上真的會衝擊到這些產業"},{"start":172.74,"end":197.805,"text":"我們觀察現在的確有一些產業它是非常傳統的然後它甚至本身已經沒有國際競爭力的那它的確在這波壓力之下可能會被迫有一些調整這個我們一直密切在注意但是目前這樣的案例不多那我們現在的確會想要跟勞動部一起來合作來探討來做超前的部署假設有些企業遇到這樣的狀況真的是屬實的話那我們該怎麼辦的確我們在討論這個事情"},{"start":201.346,"end":217.762,"text":"對啊部長其實你剛剛講沒有錯其實真的要超前部署你不能等到確實已經一堆人失業了你再來規劃要去做所以我就說居然專家學者有這一部分的評估有這一部分的隱憂勢必你在推動近年轉型確實有些"},{"start":220.884,"end":246.532,"text":"產業絕對會受到這些衝擊那所以勞動部他他們有去做這個報告那我們現在也是說希望針對這個報告的部分那我們環境部也希望喔能夠在這之前超前部署是不是針對我們有可能這些失業造成衝擊的產業像我們有收這個碳費是不是也應該去補助做一些人才培訓這一方面的訓練課程"},{"start":247.992,"end":268.02,"text":"對 包委員其實我們的綠領裡面就有一項是跟勞動部合作的那當然我必須說這份報告呢就僅供參考用這個就我們現在的這個政策的落實性可以當成我們治理性可行性不高啦這份報告但是我們很密切注意這個事情所以未來呢如果有碳費甚至我也跟洪部長"},{"start":269.781,"end":297.579,"text":"這個討論說我們是不是加大那個力道讓勞工朋友多一點增能的一個空間這個就是我們綠領在做的事情對因為他照這樣子來評估其實我們也擔心說萬一淨零轉型去做之後造成這些產業的衝擊那我們現在比較擔心就是說這些產業他其實到時候如果這些人才他要轉型的時候勢必他們的部分他們是屬於"},{"start":298.76,"end":326.73,"text":"因為已經就業可能10年以上那年齡一定都是比較高屬於中高年再加上這些產業其實整體它的教育程度來講都是比較低那我後來也看一些我們針對我們補助的重點像我們環境部跟工研院有在推動綠領人才培訓跟補助這些辦法好像重點都是放在30歲以下跟大專學歷以上"},{"start":327.65,"end":350.018,"text":"為主要對象那當然你們這個推動最主要目的是希望能夠把一些新血新血輪來加入這些行列那可是我們覺得說你加入新血輪當然勢必重要可是現有勞動力的這些轉型是不是我們應該也要有一些相關的措施去輔導他們"},{"start":351.759,"end":375.649,"text":"委員提議是非常好目前就是我們會透過勞動部那個平台來討論這個事情因為說真的勞動部他的資源比環境部來對於勞工的輔導他們更了解怎麼幫助勞工那我們這邊就是屬於綠領的人才的培訓所以這個部分我們的確是已經約了時間近期就會來見面來談這個媒合的事情如何來合作"},{"start":376.329,"end":392.269,"text":"對啊 所以那時候部長也有提到你像因為我們現在推動淨零轉型那勢必環境部勞動部跟經濟部這個跨部會的合作真的是很重要那你當然說那一部分那個專家學者勞動部他所做的報告"},{"start":393.11,"end":410.517,"text":"當然可能是站在他立場去做一些評估但是我們也是擔心說勢必對這些產業多少一定會有受到相當的衝擊可能未必是他評估的這麼的嚴重但是這一部分也值得我們注意就是我們在培訓的部分不能把重點"},{"start":411.397,"end":439.756,"text":"都放在新血輪的加入而且這些年輕而且學歷高其實整體上他們在產業的就業率來講其實他的條件一定是比較好那我們現在就是擔心這些中高齡他轉型而且本身他的學歷並不是像這些新血輪你們現在補助的學歷這麼高那反而到時候他們要轉型就業成為綠領人才反而如果我們沒有"},{"start":440.256,"end":456.338,"text":"去補助他們去培訓他們勢必對他們來講到時候轉型一定是有很大的問題那加上我們環境部有收這個碳費所以我們才想說是不是部長在針對碳費這部分來補助我們這些人才的轉型"},{"start":457.259,"end":485.752,"text":"好謝謝委員的蠻好建議因為我們碳費明年才會收到啦然後那如果說未來從這個公正轉型的角度的確委員提到的一個特別是高齡或是學歷比較低或是年資很長的這個族群的確是我們可以來列入考慮在裡面等於是我們今年可以說是先開始先對年輕朋友那未來呢包含委員提的原住民新住民等等這個我們的確可以來納入考慮那我們也會跨部會例如說像"},{"start":486.192,"end":511.484,"text":"原住民其實就必須跟原住民委員會來談如何來媒合因為這部分我們今天會提出當然我們就希望未雨綢繆啦你不要等到一堆人拿失業的時候我們再來尋求這個解套方式那就太慢了所以剛剛部長也有看到所以我們希望目前我們環境部跟工研院推動的部分是屬於比較年輕高學歷的我們希望能夠針對這部分我們來研議擴大補助的對象"},{"start":515.186,"end":544.328,"text":"就像我们原住民薰住民还有二度就业的妇女还有中高龄这些有可能面临失业转型的这一部分我们现在严领来补助希望能够针对绿领人才的培训我们环境部也来出来协助我们劳动部甚至其他各部会来让这个补助计划能够顺利的来推动好没问题委员的建议我们会考虑谢谢好谢谢部长谢谢好谢谢图全级委员"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":597,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（9時57分）好，謝謝主席，請彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：部長，目前我國積極在推動淨零轉型，這是我們的重要工作，而勢必高碳排、高耗能的產業一定是首當其衝，我看你去年也指出，像電子零組件、金屬製品、批發零售業等行業，短期勢必會因為推動淨零轉型而受到衝擊，那時候你指出，預估2025年失業人口大概會超過1萬，到2050年失業人口可能會超過4萬，部長也表示環境部會跟勞動部、經濟部一起成立跨部會淨零職場的轉型平臺，請問這個平臺現在建立了嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，你提到的那個報告，是勞動部當年委託學者做的報告，這裡面有很多假設，我也跟洪申翰部長討論過那個報告，基本上，我知道那個報告沒有繼續做下去，因為我們都是在這個領域的人，我們看到綠領的工作機會在增加，到現在也沒有看到有任何一家企業因為淨零而開始裁員，所以就目前來看，那份報告是學者的一些推估，我們認為可以拿來做政策使用的可信度並不高，這點也跟委員報告。另外，其實勞動部洪申翰部長很重視這個問題，包含5月1號有一些勞工朋友代表提出了七個建言，其中有一項就是淨零，目前的確我們跟勞動部有一個合作平臺，準備要來討論這些問題，包括勞工未來要進行公正轉型或淨零的時候，他們需要如何參與等等，我們準備要來談這個事情。"],["涂委員權吉：所以部長的意思是說有關淨零轉型，不會衝擊到這些產業嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：那個可以再算，但是我必須說，之前去年那份委託的研究報告，我自己從我個人的角度，畢竟那個是勞動部委託的計畫，但是從我自己的領域專業來看的話，那份報告參考價值度不高啦！"],["涂委員權吉：對，我請問部長，有關淨零轉型推動，你們應該也有評估，會不會像我們剛剛講的，你說這只是他們的預估，有沒有可能事實上真的會衝擊到這些產業呢？"],["彭部長啓明：我們觀察，現在的確有一些產業是非常傳統的，甚至它本身已經沒有國際競爭力，的確在這波壓力之下可能會被迫有一些調整，我們一直密切在注意，但是目前這樣的案例不多，我們現在的確會想要跟勞動部一起來合作探討並超前部署，假設有些企業真的屬實遇到這樣的狀況，那我們該怎麼辦？的確我們也在討論這個事情。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊，部長，你剛剛講的沒有錯，其實真的要超前部署，不能等到確實已經一堆人失業了，再來規劃要去做，既然專家學者有這部分的評估及這部分的隱憂，勢必你在推動淨零轉型時，確實有些產業絕對會受到衝擊，所以勞動部有做這個報告，我們現在也是針對這個報告，希望環境部也能夠在這之前超前部署，針對這些有可能失業並造成衝擊的產業，像我們有收碳費，是不是也應該提供補助，來做一些人才培訓這方面的訓練課程？"],["彭部長啓明：對，報告委員，其實我們的綠領裡就有一項是跟勞動部合作，當然，委員，我必須說這份報告僅供參考用，就我們現在政策的落實性及治理性，可以說可行性不高，但是我們很密切注意這個事情，所以未來如果有碳費，甚至我也跟洪部長討論說是不是要加大力道讓勞工朋友多一點增能的空間？這個就是我們綠領在做的事情。"],["涂委員權吉：對，因為照這樣子評估，其實我們也擔心萬一做了淨零轉型之後造成這些產業的衝擊，我們現在比較擔心這些產業到時候遇到人才要轉型，對於這些可能已經就業10年以上，年齡一定都是比較高、屬於中高齡的人來說，再加上這些產業整體的教育程度都比較低。我後來也看到一些補助的重點，像環境部跟工研院有在推動綠領人才培訓跟補助辦法，重點好像都是放在30歲以下跟大專學歷以上為主要對象，當然，你們推動最主要的目的是希望能夠有新血輪來加入這些行列。我們覺得加入新血輪當然重要，可是針對現有勞動力的轉型，我們是不是也應該要有一些相關措施去輔導他們？"],["彭部長啓明：好，委員的提議非常好，目前我們會跟勞動部透過那個平臺來討論這件事情，因為說真的，勞動部的資源對比環境部，對於勞工的輔導，他們更了解怎麼幫助勞工，我們就是屬於綠領人才的培訓，所以這個部分我們的確已經約了時間，近期就會見面來談媒合的事情及如何合作。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊，那時候部長也有提到，因為我們現在推動淨零轉型，環境部、勞動部和經濟部跨部會合作真的是很重要，當然你說勞動部專家學者所做的報告可能是站在他的立場去做一些評估，但是我們也是擔心勢必對這些產業多少一定會受到相當的衝擊，可能未必像他所評估的這麼嚴重，但是有一部分也值得我們注意，就是我們在培訓的部分不能把重點都放在新血輪的加入，而且這些人年輕、學歷高，其實整體上他們在產業的就業率來講，條件一定比較好。我們現在就是擔心這些中高齡轉型，他本身並不是像這些新血輪，就是你們現在所補助的對象學歷這麼高，到時候他們要轉型就業成為綠領人才，如果沒有去補助、培訓他們，對他們來講，到時候轉型勢必一定有很大的問題。加上環境部有收碳費，所以我們才想說是不是請部長針對碳費這一部分來補助這些人才轉型？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員滿好的建議，因為我們明年才會收到碳費，未來從公正轉型的角度，委員提到特別是高齡、學歷比較低或是年資很長的族群，的確我們可以在裡面來列入考慮，等於是今年可以先開始針對年輕朋友，未來包含委員提到的原住民、新住民等等，的確可以來納入考慮，我們也會跨部會，例如像原住民，就必須跟原住民委員會來談如何媒合。"],["涂委員權吉：對，因為這部分我們今天會提出來當然就是希望未雨綢繆，你不要等到一堆人失業的時候再來尋求解套方式，那就太慢了。剛剛部長也有看到，目前環境部和工研院推動的部分是屬於比較年輕、高學歷的，我們希望能夠針對這部分來研議擴大補助的對象，像原住民、新住民，還有二度就業的婦女，以及中高齡可能面臨失業轉型的這部分，我們現在來研擬補助，希望能夠針對綠領人才的培訓，環境部也來協助勞動部、甚至其他各部會，讓這個補助計畫能夠順利來推動。"],["彭部長啓明：好，沒問題。委員的建議，我們會考慮，謝謝。"],["涂委員權吉：好，謝謝部長，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝涂權吉委員發言。","接下來請邱鎮軍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":446,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-11","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王育敏","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","林淑芬","王正旭","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","徐富癸","陳培瑜","楊曜","盧縣一","蔡易餘","廖偉翔"],"page_start":369,"meetingDate":["2025-05-14"],"gazette_id":"1145001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145001_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、勞動部及教育部就「我國推動綠色轉型政策，相關人才培育發展\n與產業政策規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、勞動部、經濟\n部、農業部及教育部就「全氟及多氟烷基物質(PFAS)管理行動計畫及環境荷爾蒙管理計畫之毒化\n物相關管理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢【專題報告綜合詢答】","agenda_id":"1145001_00015"}}}