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\"員\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 849.298, \"end\": 849.92, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 849.92, \"end\": 850.081, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 850.081, \"end\": 850.101, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,591 --> 00:00:04,792\n現在請葛如君召委發言好謝謝林坤澤委員協助代理宣告作為代理主席那我們有請行政院謝慎龍參議請謝參議\n\n2\n00:00:29,103 --> 00:00:51,409\n蔡英你好依據今天國科會訴發部所提供的書面資料國科會已經在去年的10月22號將草案呈報行政院並由行政院辦理後續的審查作業行政院今天的書面報告則說會儘速將草案送進立法院審查本席算了一下從草案送進行政院到今天為止已經經過了205天\n\n3\n00:00:54,150 --> 00:01:11,797\n我想請問一下這個人工智慧基本法的草案剛剛我們這個次長也說了現在在行政院這裡那我們現在立法院的法定會期是5月31號請問行政院的草案會不會在法定會期之內就是5月31號以前送進立法院來審查會還是不會跟委員報告現在國科會在這個人工智慧基本法草案送進\n\n4\n00:01:22,594 --> 00:01:46,215\n院理後因為當然這個草案是大家都有共識是要一定是要設立的那因為在過程當中其實送來院去年對不起我打斷您過程我們都很清楚我想知道會還是不會5月31號以前會不會送進來審查這草案的版本目前院理還在文字調整中\n\n5\n00:01:47,867 --> 00:02:09,557\n政委那邊也都在協助所以這個奇怪囉剛剛訴發部說已經送他們的版本進去然後在行政院裡面那已經在行政院裡面了國科會主委還要去協助因為現在這個法到底是誰打到底是行政院的還是訴發部的還是國科會的因為這法案\n\n6\n00:02:10,393 --> 00:02:33,292\n基本法大家大概都有立法的共識所以因為在那個磋商過程中在審查過程中相關的意見也要觀察國際的趨勢這些來調整好收到謝謝啊我們大概知道你的大意啦就是現在還在神隱啦不過沒關係我們先了解一下這個過去您剛剛講過程嘛行政院在2月26號根據國科會的說法\n\n7\n00:02:35,854 --> 00:02:56,200\n是2月26號指示將人工智慧基本法的主管機關由國科會改為速發部但是很神奇啊我們翻閱了今天行政院的書院報告對這件事情隻字未提完全避而不談在以本席在4月29號總質詢的時候當面向院長請教這件事情卓院長也承諾在會後\n\n8\n00:02:57,900 --> 00:03:24,637\n馬上會提供2月26號的會議紀錄給本席但是直到今天本席依然沒有收到我們現在已經5月14號了完全沒有2月26號的會議紀錄啊到底我們一個AI基本法到轉這個所謂的部會來做主管怎麼沒有完全的一個紀錄的過程這當中有沒有什麼不可告人之處行政院為什麼沒有辦法提供會議紀錄或相關佐證資料我們一要再要啊為什麼\n\n9\n00:03:26,071 --> 00:03:52,114\n跟委員報告資料其實已經提供給委員相關的文件2月26號的會議紀錄已經含送給委員了這個我們等一下喔等一下喔我們沒有收到喔你們有含送嗎你確定嗎是國科會那邊提供的國科會這邊有提供嗎有提供2月26號的會議紀錄我們已經有看到剪送的公文裡面有提到這個改交的過程嗎\n\n10\n00:03:53,095 --> 00:04:03,779\n有嗎確認一下喔請你的幕僚把那個你確定有的話你現在你待會就印一個副本過來喔我們就沒收到啊5月22號我們就發文了5月12號發文到葛如軍委員辦公室\n\n11\n00:04:12,591 --> 00:04:32,334\n你是電子發文嗎你是電子發文還是實體發文這個怎麼會有這種事情呢如果有你現在就調出來副本好不好你立刻提出來就是禮拜一發的嘛我們沒有收到啊再確認一下好不好確認一下好不好今天行政院的書面報告我們其實是還沒看到啦\n\n12\n00:04:32,974 --> 00:04:55,062\n無論如何,如果有你們其實今天也就可以帶過來嘛那你們的那個行政院今天的書面報告也都沒提到2月26號啊這完全是一個不知道從哪裡來的日期啊我們完全不知道這個改交的過程是什麼所以我想這個真的是要來了解一下同時呢我想我們今天的行政院的書面報告裡面也提到一個地方\n\n13\n00:04:56,383 --> 00:05:10,237\n說這個按照行政院的這個版本除了第七條有關我們希望來設立特別委員會的這個規定以外其他的條文是不是都跟本席的內容一樣照你們這個說法是不是這樣\n\n14\n00:05:14,602 --> 00:05:33,513\n這是你們今天提出來的報告參事您今天要來是不是應該先閱讀一下我剛剛講說第七條其實應該說之前已經回應過了沒有就說只有這一條沒有條文相關啊那其他就是有囉我們那條文你們都有囉是不是這樣\n\n15\n00:05:34,574 --> 00:06:02,223\n重視的重點都在那個法案訂定過程都是有檢視也有納入大家的意見我想這是一定是要那個這是大家的公司就要兼顧這一些創新發展跟人權隱私的維護這一些當然一定是都會考量的好你雖然沒有回答本席的問題但沒有關係我想我們就期待你們的草案希望5月31號以前趕快提出來文字修正5月31號以前也夠了吧\n\n16\n00:06:03,171 --> 00:06:30,819\n可不可以送進來回去報告好我想我們再來問一下我們有說希望能夠有這個比較高層級的任務編組跨黨派的委員都有同樣的意見那我想問我們在總諮詢的時候院長跟我們說有智慧國家推動小組那我想問一下參事你知道你們的這個智慧國家推動小組的海外範圍有多廣嗎包山包海什麼都有啊\n\n17\n00:06:31,898 --> 00:06:55,265\n事實上我們就算你這個東西可以做好了但是我們可以看到智慧國家推動小組每年只開會一到兩次要來決定台灣的AI整體戰略而且108年114年110年根本也沒開會本席想要問第一個包山包海這件事情能處理AI嗎第二個\n\n18\n00:06:56,626 --> 00:07:11,168\n這個會有足夠的量能嗎第三個AI的業務既然這麼廣今天感謝這麼多的部會過來難道不值得專門設置一個委員會嗎我們剛剛也有委員提到啊所以這一點我希望詹士林帶回去\n\n19\n00:07:12,149 --> 00:07:39,683\n現在呢我們看到你們的2024年的智慧國家推動小組的成果報告裡面24次講人工智慧完全沒有講到戰略能不能把這一點帶回去明確轉達給卓榮泰院長我們需要一個專門設置的委員會是委員會這樣我們會回去會報告是好那麻煩了解一下那個文送過來的過程到底送到了沒謝謝那給副本那參議請回接下來請國科會吳承文主委就備詢台\n\n20\n00:07:47,009 --> 00:08:09,954\n主委行政院剛剛現在是一個羅生門我們沒有收到資料我現在只好來請教你這個你們書面報告今天也有提到行政院今年2月26號指示這樣的一個改交那我想請教2月26號以前行政院院長有沒有跟您討論人工智慧基本法的主管機關要改交到速發部2月26號以前有沒有跟你說過我們是在當天會議的時候討論的\n\n21\n00:08:13,706 --> 00:08:17,021\n所以之前都沒有討論這是一個surprise是嗎\n\n22\n00:08:18,510 --> 00:08:46,781\n不會因為我們在討論的過程當中其實是有提到未來要阻擇的部分當然要解釋法令這一點不好意思主委我打斷你我們這麼重要的一個AI的發展的阻擇機關竟然2月26號以前沒有討論過只有當天就直接告訴你那我們現在也拿不到會議記錄資料這到底是什麼樣的一個黑箱的過程\n\n23\n00:08:47,481 --> 00:09:09,257\n老實說啦我想我們看一下根據你們的資料其實我可以理解國會真的做了非常多的事情這一點我要給你抱抱啊你們做了非常多的諮詢會議但是我們可以看到速發部則是給我們回覆到現在為止完全沒有依據人工基本法召開過任何一次的諮詢會議\n\n24\n00:09:12,819 --> 00:09:21,687\n所以我想主委我們真的是替你覺得打抱不平啦你上場投出了一個好球投得也不錯結果中繼沒幾局就要換下場我覺得同仁都為你感到不捨啦這個是不是我們就一起來努力釐清這過程當中發生什麼事情\n\n25\n00:09:30,252 --> 00:09:46,008\n沒有發生什麼事情沒有發生什麼事情就2月26號一天就告訴你說不是你的了下場我們在制定法案的過程當中其實有討論到要不要列入主政的部會但是因為\n\n26\n00:09:47,069 --> 00:10:09,133\n他牽涉到非常多的這個應用面是跟各部會都有關那速發部來主政的部分是以資料治理為主但是將來在施行的時候剛剛其實委員有提到要設立委員會這件事情我們其實有一個三政委的平台這個我們聽過了謝謝我打斷您謝謝這個我們理解那後面同仁你們找到這個報告了嗎2月16號的會議紀錄相關的這個資料\n\n27\n00:10:14,363 --> 00:10:15,043\n我們今年度有申請科專的請費\n\n28\n00:10:38,318 --> 00:10:58,386\n詳細的數字我可能要請我們問不到啊然後聽說現在好像還沒審查通過啊我是不是幫您跟國科會主委要求加速一下剛剛大家都說你們都很擔心你們兩邊會不會有歧義啊多少申請多少經費啊我們也要希望這個朝野有共識的\n\n29\n00:10:59,548 --> 00:11:04,752\n國科會申請一個4000萬的經費聽說現在還沒下來啊還沒通過啊我們跟國科會合作也要很良好這樣子沒關係我想這可能溝通上面有一些問題好不好我們是不是能夠大家這個AI主權嘛這資料很重要剛剛這個李昆哲委員也非常重視\n\n30\n00:11:19,682 --> 00:11:43,235\n那我想再請教次長那你現在有這個語料庫我們都非常關心這個語料庫現在都是跟政府部會內部來購買啊那這個什麼時候要來跟民間購買資料否則你現在是政府的左手跟政府的右手來買資料定價權也在你手上給錢也是你那民間呢民間也有很多寶貴的資料啊什麼時候會來向民間購買資料什麼時候會開放給民間的公司來做AI的訓練\n\n31\n00:11:50,439 --> 00:12:18,098\n兩個部分第一個跟委員報告我們政府的資料那我們不會是採取購買的方式因為這些不管是有著作權或沒有著作權他基本上他的著作權也是屬於這個政府部門在沒有正義的部分我們是採取無償的部分來提供的那民間的部分我們首先會採取自願的方式那事實上已經有過去已經有這個我們接下來過程中已經有民間的包括電子的這個出版品的這個廠商他願意投入這個計畫因為他也希望他的出版品\n\n32\n00:12:19,259 --> 00:12:35,024\n能夠成為語料庫的一部分所以可以付費跟他購買嗎我們目前沒有採取付費的機制我想這個可能要請速發部研議一下喔因為這個語料庫你不能左手跟政府自己右手買啊民間那麼寶貴的資料都不是資料嗎我們民間沒有台灣價值嗎應該有吧有有有對不對將來我們當然會希望有獎勵的機制能夠鼓勵民間來投入這個資料庫這樣好\n\n33\n00:12:43,347 --> 00:13:10,745\n謝謝次長我們一起來努力不好意思我最後借30秒那有請次長請回有請教育部的吳司長謝謝司長本席的人工智慧基本法提案版本第九條非常重視人工智慧跟教育的結合雖然我們還沒有三讀通過但是謝謝教育部一直努力在推動科技教育很遺憾本席最近接獲第一線教師的陳情已經推行四年的5G新科技學習示範學校計畫\n\n34\n00:13:11,445 --> 00:13:35,607\n因為前瞻計畫的期程只到今年的8月而面臨辦公室解散人員要裁撤的困境教育部雖然有向國科會申請科技計畫我們也再次感謝國科會那依據審理的期程呢最快可能要到1月才能夠撥款我們都知道那個燈喔開關燈的過程是最耗電的能不能可以把它持續下去科技教育的研發需要投入很大量的心血啦\n\n35\n00:13:36,047 --> 00:13:48,115\n是不是可以不要因為計畫銜接的中斷請教師長教育部能不能進行內部預算的盤點考慮以公務預算暫時支應計畫的經費讓有意持續辦理的學校可以度過兩個計畫銜接的這個空窗期不要這樣子讓這個人員無所適從有沒有這個機會謝謝召委我們回去會後會盤點現有的經費還有資源然後我們再進行後續的一個相關研議好可以做到啦好謝謝那我們就謝謝師長\n\n36\n00:14:06,268 --> 00:14:10,101\n好來事務長請坐吉祥委員我跟你說\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2591\t4792\t現在請葛如君召委發言好 謝謝林坤澤委員協助代理宣告 作為代理主席那我們有請行政院謝慎龍參議請謝參議\n29103\t51409\t蔡英你好依據今天國科會訴發部所提供的書面資料國科會已經在去年的10月22號將草案呈報行政院並由行政院辦理後續的審查作業行政院今天的書面報告則說會儘速將草案送進立法院審查本席算了一下從草案送進行政院到今天為止已經經過了205天\n54150\t71797\t我想請問一下這個人工智慧基本法的草案剛剛我們這個次長也說了現在在行政院這裡那我們現在立法院的法定會期是5月31號請問行政院的草案會不會在法定會期之內就是5月31號以前送進立法院來審查會還是不會跟委員報告現在國科會在這個人工智慧基本法草案送進\n82594\t106215\t院理後因為當然這個草案是大家都有共識是要一定是要設立的那因為在過程當中其實送來院去年對不起我打斷您過程我們都很清楚我想知道會還是不會5月31號以前會不會送進來審查這草案的版本目前院理還在文字調整中\n107867\t129557\t政委那邊也都在協助所以這個奇怪囉剛剛訴發部說已經送他們的版本進去然後在行政院裡面那已經在行政院裡面了國科會主委還要去協助因為現在這個法到底是誰打到底是行政院的還是訴發部的還是國科會的因為這法案\n130393\t153292\t基本法大家大概都有立法的共識所以因為在那個磋商過程中在審查過程中相關的意見也要觀察國際的趨勢這些來調整好 收到 謝謝啊我們大概知道你的大意啦就是現在還在神隱啦不過沒關係我們先了解一下這個過去您剛剛講過程嘛行政院在2月26號根據國科會的說法\n155854\t176200\t是2月26號指示將人工智慧基本法的主管機關由國科會改為速發部但是很神奇啊我們翻閱了今天行政院的書院報告對這件事情隻字未提完全避而不談在以本席在4月29號總質詢的時候當面向院長請教這件事情卓院長也承諾在會後\n177900\t204637\t馬上會提供2月26號的會議紀錄給本席但是直到今天本席依然沒有收到我們現在已經5月14號了完全沒有2月26號的會議紀錄啊到底我們一個AI基本法到轉這個所謂的部會來做主管怎麼沒有完全的一個紀錄的過程這當中有沒有什麼不可告人之處行政院為什麼沒有辦法提供會議紀錄或相關佐證資料我們一要再要啊 為什麼\n206071\t232114\t跟委員報告 資料其實已經提供給委員 相關的文件2月26號的會議紀錄已經含送給委員了 這個我們等一下喔 等一下喔 我們沒有收到喔你們有含送嗎 你確定嗎是國科會那邊提供的國科會這邊有提供嗎有提供2月26號的會議紀錄我們已經有看到剪送的公文裡面有提到這個改交的過程嗎\n233095\t243779\t有嗎 確認一下喔請你的幕僚把那個你確定有的話你現在你待會就印一個副本過來喔我們就沒收到啊5月22號我們就發文了5月12號發文到葛如軍委員辦公室\n252591\t272334\t你是電子發文嗎 你是電子發文還是實體發文這個怎麼會有這種事情呢 如果有你現在就調出來副本好不好 你立刻提出來就是禮拜一發的嘛 我們沒有收到啊再確認一下好不好 確認一下好不好今天行政院的書面報告我們其實是還沒看到啦\n272974\t295062\t無論如何,如果有你們其實今天也就可以帶過來嘛那你們的那個行政院今天的書面報告也都沒提到2月26號啊這完全是一個不知道從哪裡來的日期啊我們完全不知道這個改交的過程是什麼所以我想這個真的是要來了解一下同時呢我想我們今天的行政院的書面報告裡面也提到一個地方\n296383\t310237\t說這個按照行政院的這個版本除了第七條有關我們希望來設立特別委員會的這個規定以外其他的條文是不是都跟本席的內容一樣照你們這個說法是不是這樣\n314602\t333513\t這是你們今天提出來的報告 參事您今天要來是不是應該先閱讀一下我剛剛講說第七條 其實應該說之前已經回應過了沒有 就說只有這一條沒有條文相關啊 那其他就是有囉我們那條文你們都有囉 是不是這樣\n334574\t362223\t重視的重點都在那個法案訂定過程都是有檢視也有納入大家的意見我想這是一定是要那個這是大家的公司就要兼顧這一些創新發展跟人權隱私的維護這一些當然一定是都會考量的好你雖然沒有回答本席的問題但沒有關係我想我們就期待你們的草案希望5月31號以前趕快提出來文字修正5月31號以前也夠了吧\n363171\t390819\t可不可以送進來回去報告好我想我們再來問一下我們有說希望能夠有這個比較高層級的任務編組跨黨派的委員都有同樣的意見那我想問我們在總諮詢的時候院長跟我們說有智慧國家推動小組那我想問一下參事你知道你們的這個智慧國家推動小組的海外範圍有多廣嗎包山包海什麼都有啊\n391898\t415265\t事實上我們就算你這個東西可以做好了但是我們可以看到智慧國家推動小組每年只開會一到兩次要來決定台灣的AI整體戰略而且108年 114年 110年根本也沒開會本席想要問第一個包山包海這件事情能處理AI嗎第二個\n416626\t431168\t這個會有足夠的量能嗎第三個AI的業務既然這麼廣今天感謝這麼多的部會過來難道不值得專門設置一個委員會嗎我們剛剛也有委員提到啊所以這一點我希望詹士林帶回去\n432149\t459683\t現在呢 我們看到你們的2024年的智慧國家推動小組的成果報告裡面24次講人工智慧 完全沒有講到戰略能不能把這一點帶回去 明確轉達給卓榮泰院長我們需要一個專門設置的委員會是 委員會 這樣我們會回去會報告是好 那麻煩了解一下那個文送過來的過程 到底送到了沒謝謝 那給副本那參議請回 接下來請國科會吳承文主委就備詢台\n467009\t489954\t主委行政院剛剛現在是一個羅生門我們沒有收到資料我現在只好來請教你這個你們書面報告今天也有提到行政院今年2月26號指示這樣的一個改交那我想請教2月26號以前行政院院長有沒有跟您討論人工智慧基本法的主管機關要改交到速發部2月26號以前有沒有跟你說過我們是在當天會議的時候討論的\n493706\t497021\t所以之前都沒有討論這是一個surprise是嗎\n498510\t526781\t不會 因為我們在討論的過程當中其實是有提到未來要阻擇的部分當然要解釋法令這一點不好意思主委我打斷你我們這麼重要的一個AI的發展的阻擇機關竟然2月26號以前沒有討論過只有當天就直接告訴你那我們現在也拿不到會議記錄資料這到底是什麼樣的一個黑箱的過程\n527481\t549257\t老實說啦 我想我們看一下 根據你們的資料其實我可以理解 國會真的做了非常多的事情這一點我要給你抱抱啊你們做了非常多的諮詢會議但是我們可以看到 速發部則是給我們回覆到現在為止完全沒有依據人工基本法 召開過任何一次的諮詢會議\n552819\t561687\t所以我想 主委 我們真的是替你覺得打抱不平啦你上場投出了一個好球 投得也不錯結果中繼沒幾局就要換下場我覺得同仁都為你感到不捨啦這個是不是我們就一起來努力釐清這過程當中發生什麼事情\n570252\t586008\t沒有發生什麼事情沒有發生什麼事情就2月26號一天就告訴你說不是你的了 下場我們在制定法案的過程當中其實有討論到要不要列入主政的部會但是因為\n587069\t609133\t他牽涉到非常多的這個應用面是跟各部會都有關那速發部來主政的部分是以資料治理為主但是將來在施行的時候剛剛其實委員有提到要設立委員會這件事情我們其實有一個三政委的平台這個我們聽過了謝謝我打斷您謝謝這個我們理解那後面同仁你們找到這個報告了嗎2月16號的會議紀錄相關的這個資料\n614363\t615043\t我們今年度有申請科專的請費\n638318\t658386\t詳細的數字我可能要請我們問不到啊然後聽說現在好像還沒審查通過啊我是不是幫您跟國科會主委要求加速一下剛剛大家都說你們都很擔心你們兩邊會不會有歧義啊多少申請多少經費啊我們也要希望這個朝野有共識的\n659548\t664752\t國科會申請一個4000萬的經費聽說現在還沒下來啊還沒通過啊我們跟國科會合作也要很良好這樣子沒關係我想這可能溝通上面有一些問題好不好我們是不是能夠大家這個AI主權嘛這資料很重要剛剛這個李昆哲委員也非常重視\n679682\t703235\t那我想再請教次長那你現在有這個語料庫我們都非常關心這個語料庫現在都是跟政府部會內部來購買啊那這個什麼時候要來跟民間購買資料否則你現在是政府的左手跟政府的右手來買資料定價權也在你手上給錢也是你那民間呢民間也有很多寶貴的資料啊什麼時候會來向民間購買資料什麼時候會開放給民間的公司來做AI的訓練\n710439\t738098\t兩個部分第一個跟委員報告我們政府的資料那我們不會是採取購買的方式因為這些不管是有著作權或沒有著作權他基本上他的著作權也是屬於這個政府部門在沒有正義的部分我們是採取無償的部分來提供的那民間的部分我們首先會採取自願的方式那事實上已經有過去已經有這個我們接下來過程中已經有民間的包括電子的這個出版品的這個廠商他願意投入這個計畫因為他也希望他的出版品\n739259\t755024\t能夠成為語料庫的一部分所以可以付費跟他購買嗎我們目前沒有採取付費的機制我想這個可能要請速發部研議一下喔因為這個語料庫你不能左手跟政府自己右手買啊民間那麼寶貴的資料都不是資料嗎我們民間沒有台灣價值嗎應該有吧有有有 對不對將來我們當然會希望有獎勵的機制能夠鼓勵民間來投入這個資料庫這樣好\n763347\t790745\t謝謝次長我們一起來努力不好意思我最後借30秒那有請 次長請回有請教育部的吳司長謝謝 司長本席的人工智慧基本法提案版本第九條非常重視人工智慧跟教育的結合雖然我們還沒有三讀通過但是謝謝教育部一直努力在推動科技教育很遺憾本席最近接獲第一線教師的陳情已經推行四年的5G新科技學習示範學校計畫\n791445\t815607\t因為前瞻計畫的期程只到今年的8月而面臨辦公室解散人員要裁撤的困境教育部雖然有向國科會申請科技計畫我們也再次感謝國科會那依據審理的期程呢最快可能要到1月才能夠撥款我們都知道那個燈喔開關燈的過程是最耗電的能不能可以把它持續下去科技教育的研發需要投入很大量的心血啦\n816047\t828115\t是不是可以不要因為計畫銜接的中斷請教師長教育部能不能進行內部預算的盤點考慮以公務預算暫時支應計畫的經費讓有意持續辦理的學校可以度過兩個計畫銜接的這個空窗期不要這樣子讓這個人員無所適從有沒有這個機會謝謝召委我們回去會後會盤點現有的經費還有資源然後我們再進行後續的一個相關研議好 可以做到啦好 謝謝那我們就謝謝師長\n846268\t850101\t好 來 事務長請坐吉祥委員 我跟你說\n","txt":"現在請葛如君召委發言好 謝謝林坤澤委員協助代理宣告 作為代理主席那我們有請行政院謝慎龍參議請謝參議\n蔡英你好依據今天國科會訴發部所提供的書面資料國科會已經在去年的10月22號將草案呈報行政院並由行政院辦理後續的審查作業行政院今天的書面報告則說會儘速將草案送進立法院審查本席算了一下從草案送進行政院到今天為止已經經過了205天\n我想請問一下這個人工智慧基本法的草案剛剛我們這個次長也說了現在在行政院這裡那我們現在立法院的法定會期是5月31號請問行政院的草案會不會在法定會期之內就是5月31號以前送進立法院來審查會還是不會跟委員報告現在國科會在這個人工智慧基本法草案送進\n院理後因為當然這個草案是大家都有共識是要一定是要設立的那因為在過程當中其實送來院去年對不起我打斷您過程我們都很清楚我想知道會還是不會5月31號以前會不會送進來審查這草案的版本目前院理還在文字調整中\n政委那邊也都在協助所以這個奇怪囉剛剛訴發部說已經送他們的版本進去然後在行政院裡面那已經在行政院裡面了國科會主委還要去協助因為現在這個法到底是誰打到底是行政院的還是訴發部的還是國科會的因為這法案\n基本法大家大概都有立法的共識所以因為在那個磋商過程中在審查過程中相關的意見也要觀察國際的趨勢這些來調整好 收到 謝謝啊我們大概知道你的大意啦就是現在還在神隱啦不過沒關係我們先了解一下這個過去您剛剛講過程嘛行政院在2月26號根據國科會的說法\n是2月26號指示將人工智慧基本法的主管機關由國科會改為速發部但是很神奇啊我們翻閱了今天行政院的書院報告對這件事情隻字未提完全避而不談在以本席在4月29號總質詢的時候當面向院長請教這件事情卓院長也承諾在會後\n馬上會提供2月26號的會議紀錄給本席但是直到今天本席依然沒有收到我們現在已經5月14號了完全沒有2月26號的會議紀錄啊到底我們一個AI基本法到轉這個所謂的部會來做主管怎麼沒有完全的一個紀錄的過程這當中有沒有什麼不可告人之處行政院為什麼沒有辦法提供會議紀錄或相關佐證資料我們一要再要啊 為什麼\n跟委員報告 資料其實已經提供給委員 相關的文件2月26號的會議紀錄已經含送給委員了 這個我們等一下喔 等一下喔 我們沒有收到喔你們有含送嗎 你確定嗎是國科會那邊提供的國科會這邊有提供嗎有提供2月26號的會議紀錄我們已經有看到剪送的公文裡面有提到這個改交的過程嗎\n有嗎 確認一下喔請你的幕僚把那個你確定有的話你現在你待會就印一個副本過來喔我們就沒收到啊5月22號我們就發文了5月12號發文到葛如軍委員辦公室\n你是電子發文嗎 你是電子發文還是實體發文這個怎麼會有這種事情呢 如果有你現在就調出來副本好不好 你立刻提出來就是禮拜一發的嘛 我們沒有收到啊再確認一下好不好 確認一下好不好今天行政院的書面報告我們其實是還沒看到啦\n無論如何,如果有你們其實今天也就可以帶過來嘛那你們的那個行政院今天的書面報告也都沒提到2月26號啊這完全是一個不知道從哪裡來的日期啊我們完全不知道這個改交的過程是什麼所以我想這個真的是要來了解一下同時呢我想我們今天的行政院的書面報告裡面也提到一個地方\n說這個按照行政院的這個版本除了第七條有關我們希望來設立特別委員會的這個規定以外其他的條文是不是都跟本席的內容一樣照你們這個說法是不是這樣\n這是你們今天提出來的報告 參事您今天要來是不是應該先閱讀一下我剛剛講說第七條 其實應該說之前已經回應過了沒有 就說只有這一條沒有條文相關啊 那其他就是有囉我們那條文你們都有囉 是不是這樣\n重視的重點都在那個法案訂定過程都是有檢視也有納入大家的意見我想這是一定是要那個這是大家的公司就要兼顧這一些創新發展跟人權隱私的維護這一些當然一定是都會考量的好你雖然沒有回答本席的問題但沒有關係我想我們就期待你們的草案希望5月31號以前趕快提出來文字修正5月31號以前也夠了吧\n可不可以送進來回去報告好我想我們再來問一下我們有說希望能夠有這個比較高層級的任務編組跨黨派的委員都有同樣的意見那我想問我們在總諮詢的時候院長跟我們說有智慧國家推動小組那我想問一下參事你知道你們的這個智慧國家推動小組的海外範圍有多廣嗎包山包海什麼都有啊\n事實上我們就算你這個東西可以做好了但是我們可以看到智慧國家推動小組每年只開會一到兩次要來決定台灣的AI整體戰略而且108年 114年 110年根本也沒開會本席想要問第一個包山包海這件事情能處理AI嗎第二個\n這個會有足夠的量能嗎第三個AI的業務既然這麼廣今天感謝這麼多的部會過來難道不值得專門設置一個委員會嗎我們剛剛也有委員提到啊所以這一點我希望詹士林帶回去\n現在呢 我們看到你們的2024年的智慧國家推動小組的成果報告裡面24次講人工智慧 完全沒有講到戰略能不能把這一點帶回去 明確轉達給卓榮泰院長我們需要一個專門設置的委員會是 委員會 這樣我們會回去會報告是好 那麻煩了解一下那個文送過來的過程 到底送到了沒謝謝 那給副本那參議請回 接下來請國科會吳承文主委就備詢台\n主委行政院剛剛現在是一個羅生門我們沒有收到資料我現在只好來請教你這個你們書面報告今天也有提到行政院今年2月26號指示這樣的一個改交那我想請教2月26號以前行政院院長有沒有跟您討論人工智慧基本法的主管機關要改交到速發部2月26號以前有沒有跟你說過我們是在當天會議的時候討論的\n所以之前都沒有討論這是一個surprise是嗎\n不會 因為我們在討論的過程當中其實是有提到未來要阻擇的部分當然要解釋法令這一點不好意思主委我打斷你我們這麼重要的一個AI的發展的阻擇機關竟然2月26號以前沒有討論過只有當天就直接告訴你那我們現在也拿不到會議記錄資料這到底是什麼樣的一個黑箱的過程\n老實說啦 我想我們看一下 根據你們的資料其實我可以理解 國會真的做了非常多的事情這一點我要給你抱抱啊你們做了非常多的諮詢會議但是我們可以看到 速發部則是給我們回覆到現在為止完全沒有依據人工基本法 召開過任何一次的諮詢會議\n所以我想 主委 我們真的是替你覺得打抱不平啦你上場投出了一個好球 投得也不錯結果中繼沒幾局就要換下場我覺得同仁都為你感到不捨啦這個是不是我們就一起來努力釐清這過程當中發生什麼事情\n沒有發生什麼事情沒有發生什麼事情就2月26號一天就告訴你說不是你的了 下場我們在制定法案的過程當中其實有討論到要不要列入主政的部會但是因為\n他牽涉到非常多的這個應用面是跟各部會都有關那速發部來主政的部分是以資料治理為主但是將來在施行的時候剛剛其實委員有提到要設立委員會這件事情我們其實有一個三政委的平台這個我們聽過了謝謝我打斷您謝謝這個我們理解那後面同仁你們找到這個報告了嗎2月16號的會議紀錄相關的這個資料\n我們今年度有申請科專的請費\n詳細的數字我可能要請我們問不到啊然後聽說現在好像還沒審查通過啊我是不是幫您跟國科會主委要求加速一下剛剛大家都說你們都很擔心你們兩邊會不會有歧義啊多少申請多少經費啊我們也要希望這個朝野有共識的\n國科會申請一個4000萬的經費聽說現在還沒下來啊還沒通過啊我們跟國科會合作也要很良好這樣子沒關係我想這可能溝通上面有一些問題好不好我們是不是能夠大家這個AI主權嘛這資料很重要剛剛這個李昆哲委員也非常重視\n那我想再請教次長那你現在有這個語料庫我們都非常關心這個語料庫現在都是跟政府部會內部來購買啊那這個什麼時候要來跟民間購買資料否則你現在是政府的左手跟政府的右手來買資料定價權也在你手上給錢也是你那民間呢民間也有很多寶貴的資料啊什麼時候會來向民間購買資料什麼時候會開放給民間的公司來做AI的訓練\n兩個部分第一個跟委員報告我們政府的資料那我們不會是採取購買的方式因為這些不管是有著作權或沒有著作權他基本上他的著作權也是屬於這個政府部門在沒有正義的部分我們是採取無償的部分來提供的那民間的部分我們首先會採取自願的方式那事實上已經有過去已經有這個我們接下來過程中已經有民間的包括電子的這個出版品的這個廠商他願意投入這個計畫因為他也希望他的出版品\n能夠成為語料庫的一部分所以可以付費跟他購買嗎我們目前沒有採取付費的機制我想這個可能要請速發部研議一下喔因為這個語料庫你不能左手跟政府自己右手買啊民間那麼寶貴的資料都不是資料嗎我們民間沒有台灣價值嗎應該有吧有有有 對不對將來我們當然會希望有獎勵的機制能夠鼓勵民間來投入這個資料庫這樣好\n謝謝次長我們一起來努力不好意思我最後借30秒那有請 次長請回有請教育部的吳司長謝謝 司長本席的人工智慧基本法提案版本第九條非常重視人工智慧跟教育的結合雖然我們還沒有三讀通過但是謝謝教育部一直努力在推動科技教育很遺憾本席最近接獲第一線教師的陳情已經推行四年的5G新科技學習示範學校計畫\n因為前瞻計畫的期程只到今年的8月而面臨辦公室解散人員要裁撤的困境教育部雖然有向國科會申請科技計畫我們也再次感謝國科會那依據審理的期程呢最快可能要到1月才能夠撥款我們都知道那個燈喔開關燈的過程是最耗電的能不能可以把它持續下去科技教育的研發需要投入很大量的心血啦\n是不是可以不要因為計畫銜接的中斷請教師長教育部能不能進行內部預算的盤點考慮以公務預算暫時支應計畫的經費讓有意持續辦理的學校可以度過兩個計畫銜接的這個空窗期不要這樣子讓這個人員無所適從有沒有這個機會謝謝召委我們回去會後會盤點現有的經費還有資源然後我們再進行後續的一個相關研議好 可以做到啦好 謝謝那我們就謝謝師長\n好 來 事務長請坐吉祥委員 我跟你說\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.591 --> 00:04.792\n現在請葛如君召委發言好謝謝林坤澤委員協助代理宣告作為代理主席那我們有請行政院謝慎龍參議請謝參議\n\n00:29.103 --> 00:51.409\n蔡英你好依據今天國科會訴發部所提供的書面資料國科會已經在去年的10月22號將草案呈報行政院並由行政院辦理後續的審查作業行政院今天的書面報告則說會儘速將草案送進立法院審查本席算了一下從草案送進行政院到今天為止已經經過了205天\n\n00:54.150 --> 01:11.797\n我想請問一下這個人工智慧基本法的草案剛剛我們這個次長也說了現在在行政院這裡那我們現在立法院的法定會期是5月31號請問行政院的草案會不會在法定會期之內就是5月31號以前送進立法院來審查會還是不會跟委員報告現在國科會在這個人工智慧基本法草案送進\n\n01:22.594 --> 01:46.215\n院理後因為當然這個草案是大家都有共識是要一定是要設立的那因為在過程當中其實送來院去年對不起我打斷您過程我們都很清楚我想知道會還是不會5月31號以前會不會送進來審查這草案的版本目前院理還在文字調整中\n\n01:47.867 --> 02:09.557\n政委那邊也都在協助所以這個奇怪囉剛剛訴發部說已經送他們的版本進去然後在行政院裡面那已經在行政院裡面了國科會主委還要去協助因為現在這個法到底是誰打到底是行政院的還是訴發部的還是國科會的因為這法案\n\n02:10.393 --> 02:33.292\n基本法大家大概都有立法的共識所以因為在那個磋商過程中在審查過程中相關的意見也要觀察國際的趨勢這些來調整好收到謝謝啊我們大概知道你的大意啦就是現在還在神隱啦不過沒關係我們先了解一下這個過去您剛剛講過程嘛行政院在2月26號根據國科會的說法\n\n02:35.854 --> 02:56.200\n是2月26號指示將人工智慧基本法的主管機關由國科會改為速發部但是很神奇啊我們翻閱了今天行政院的書院報告對這件事情隻字未提完全避而不談在以本席在4月29號總質詢的時候當面向院長請教這件事情卓院長也承諾在會後\n\n02:57.900 --> 03:24.637\n馬上會提供2月26號的會議紀錄給本席但是直到今天本席依然沒有收到我們現在已經5月14號了完全沒有2月26號的會議紀錄啊到底我們一個AI基本法到轉這個所謂的部會來做主管怎麼沒有完全的一個紀錄的過程這當中有沒有什麼不可告人之處行政院為什麼沒有辦法提供會議紀錄或相關佐證資料我們一要再要啊為什麼\n\n03:26.071 --> 03:52.114\n跟委員報告資料其實已經提供給委員相關的文件2月26號的會議紀錄已經含送給委員了這個我們等一下喔等一下喔我們沒有收到喔你們有含送嗎你確定嗎是國科會那邊提供的國科會這邊有提供嗎有提供2月26號的會議紀錄我們已經有看到剪送的公文裡面有提到這個改交的過程嗎\n\n03:53.095 --> 04:03.779\n有嗎確認一下喔請你的幕僚把那個你確定有的話你現在你待會就印一個副本過來喔我們就沒收到啊5月22號我們就發文了5月12號發文到葛如軍委員辦公室\n\n04:12.591 --> 04:32.334\n你是電子發文嗎你是電子發文還是實體發文這個怎麼會有這種事情呢如果有你現在就調出來副本好不好你立刻提出來就是禮拜一發的嘛我們沒有收到啊再確認一下好不好確認一下好不好今天行政院的書面報告我們其實是還沒看到啦\n\n04:32.974 --> 04:55.062\n無論如何,如果有你們其實今天也就可以帶過來嘛那你們的那個行政院今天的書面報告也都沒提到2月26號啊這完全是一個不知道從哪裡來的日期啊我們完全不知道這個改交的過程是什麼所以我想這個真的是要來了解一下同時呢我想我們今天的行政院的書面報告裡面也提到一個地方\n\n04:56.383 --> 05:10.237\n說這個按照行政院的這個版本除了第七條有關我們希望來設立特別委員會的這個規定以外其他的條文是不是都跟本席的內容一樣照你們這個說法是不是這樣\n\n05:14.602 --> 05:33.513\n這是你們今天提出來的報告參事您今天要來是不是應該先閱讀一下我剛剛講說第七條其實應該說之前已經回應過了沒有就說只有這一條沒有條文相關啊那其他就是有囉我們那條文你們都有囉是不是這樣\n\n05:34.574 --> 06:02.223\n重視的重點都在那個法案訂定過程都是有檢視也有納入大家的意見我想這是一定是要那個這是大家的公司就要兼顧這一些創新發展跟人權隱私的維護這一些當然一定是都會考量的好你雖然沒有回答本席的問題但沒有關係我想我們就期待你們的草案希望5月31號以前趕快提出來文字修正5月31號以前也夠了吧\n\n06:03.171 --> 06:30.819\n可不可以送進來回去報告好我想我們再來問一下我們有說希望能夠有這個比較高層級的任務編組跨黨派的委員都有同樣的意見那我想問我們在總諮詢的時候院長跟我們說有智慧國家推動小組那我想問一下參事你知道你們的這個智慧國家推動小組的海外範圍有多廣嗎包山包海什麼都有啊\n\n06:31.898 --> 06:55.265\n事實上我們就算你這個東西可以做好了但是我們可以看到智慧國家推動小組每年只開會一到兩次要來決定台灣的AI整體戰略而且108年114年110年根本也沒開會本席想要問第一個包山包海這件事情能處理AI嗎第二個\n\n06:56.626 --> 07:11.168\n這個會有足夠的量能嗎第三個AI的業務既然這麼廣今天感謝這麼多的部會過來難道不值得專門設置一個委員會嗎我們剛剛也有委員提到啊所以這一點我希望詹士林帶回去\n\n07:12.149 --> 07:39.683\n現在呢我們看到你們的2024年的智慧國家推動小組的成果報告裡面24次講人工智慧完全沒有講到戰略能不能把這一點帶回去明確轉達給卓榮泰院長我們需要一個專門設置的委員會是委員會這樣我們會回去會報告是好那麻煩了解一下那個文送過來的過程到底送到了沒謝謝那給副本那參議請回接下來請國科會吳承文主委就備詢台\n\n07:47.009 --> 08:09.954\n主委行政院剛剛現在是一個羅生門我們沒有收到資料我現在只好來請教你這個你們書面報告今天也有提到行政院今年2月26號指示這樣的一個改交那我想請教2月26號以前行政院院長有沒有跟您討論人工智慧基本法的主管機關要改交到速發部2月26號以前有沒有跟你說過我們是在當天會議的時候討論的\n\n08:13.706 --> 08:17.021\n所以之前都沒有討論這是一個surprise是嗎\n\n08:18.510 --> 08:46.781\n不會因為我們在討論的過程當中其實是有提到未來要阻擇的部分當然要解釋法令這一點不好意思主委我打斷你我們這麼重要的一個AI的發展的阻擇機關竟然2月26號以前沒有討論過只有當天就直接告訴你那我們現在也拿不到會議記錄資料這到底是什麼樣的一個黑箱的過程\n\n08:47.481 --> 09:09.257\n老實說啦我想我們看一下根據你們的資料其實我可以理解國會真的做了非常多的事情這一點我要給你抱抱啊你們做了非常多的諮詢會議但是我們可以看到速發部則是給我們回覆到現在為止完全沒有依據人工基本法召開過任何一次的諮詢會議\n\n09:12.819 --> 09:21.687\n所以我想主委我們真的是替你覺得打抱不平啦你上場投出了一個好球投得也不錯結果中繼沒幾局就要換下場我覺得同仁都為你感到不捨啦這個是不是我們就一起來努力釐清這過程當中發生什麼事情\n\n09:30.252 --> 09:46.008\n沒有發生什麼事情沒有發生什麼事情就2月26號一天就告訴你說不是你的了下場我們在制定法案的過程當中其實有討論到要不要列入主政的部會但是因為\n\n09:47.069 --> 10:09.133\n他牽涉到非常多的這個應用面是跟各部會都有關那速發部來主政的部分是以資料治理為主但是將來在施行的時候剛剛其實委員有提到要設立委員會這件事情我們其實有一個三政委的平台這個我們聽過了謝謝我打斷您謝謝這個我們理解那後面同仁你們找到這個報告了嗎2月16號的會議紀錄相關的這個資料\n\n10:14.363 --> 10:15.043\n我們今年度有申請科專的請費\n\n10:38.318 --> 10:58.386\n詳細的數字我可能要請我們問不到啊然後聽說現在好像還沒審查通過啊我是不是幫您跟國科會主委要求加速一下剛剛大家都說你們都很擔心你們兩邊會不會有歧義啊多少申請多少經費啊我們也要希望這個朝野有共識的\n\n10:59.548 --> 11:04.752\n國科會申請一個4000萬的經費聽說現在還沒下來啊還沒通過啊我們跟國科會合作也要很良好這樣子沒關係我想這可能溝通上面有一些問題好不好我們是不是能夠大家這個AI主權嘛這資料很重要剛剛這個李昆哲委員也非常重視\n\n11:19.682 --> 11:43.235\n那我想再請教次長那你現在有這個語料庫我們都非常關心這個語料庫現在都是跟政府部會內部來購買啊那這個什麼時候要來跟民間購買資料否則你現在是政府的左手跟政府的右手來買資料定價權也在你手上給錢也是你那民間呢民間也有很多寶貴的資料啊什麼時候會來向民間購買資料什麼時候會開放給民間的公司來做AI的訓練\n\n11:50.439 --> 12:18.098\n兩個部分第一個跟委員報告我們政府的資料那我們不會是採取購買的方式因為這些不管是有著作權或沒有著作權他基本上他的著作權也是屬於這個政府部門在沒有正義的部分我們是採取無償的部分來提供的那民間的部分我們首先會採取自願的方式那事實上已經有過去已經有這個我們接下來過程中已經有民間的包括電子的這個出版品的這個廠商他願意投入這個計畫因為他也希望他的出版品\n\n12:19.259 --> 12:35.024\n能夠成為語料庫的一部分所以可以付費跟他購買嗎我們目前沒有採取付費的機制我想這個可能要請速發部研議一下喔因為這個語料庫你不能左手跟政府自己右手買啊民間那麼寶貴的資料都不是資料嗎我們民間沒有台灣價值嗎應該有吧有有有對不對將來我們當然會希望有獎勵的機制能夠鼓勵民間來投入這個資料庫這樣好\n\n12:43.347 --> 13:10.745\n謝謝次長我們一起來努力不好意思我最後借30秒那有請次長請回有請教育部的吳司長謝謝司長本席的人工智慧基本法提案版本第九條非常重視人工智慧跟教育的結合雖然我們還沒有三讀通過但是謝謝教育部一直努力在推動科技教育很遺憾本席最近接獲第一線教師的陳情已經推行四年的5G新科技學習示範學校計畫\n\n13:11.445 --> 13:35.607\n因為前瞻計畫的期程只到今年的8月而面臨辦公室解散人員要裁撤的困境教育部雖然有向國科會申請科技計畫我們也再次感謝國科會那依據審理的期程呢最快可能要到1月才能夠撥款我們都知道那個燈喔開關燈的過程是最耗電的能不能可以把它持續下去科技教育的研發需要投入很大量的心血啦\n\n13:36.047 --> 13:48.115\n是不是可以不要因為計畫銜接的中斷請教師長教育部能不能進行內部預算的盤點考慮以公務預算暫時支應計畫的經費讓有意持續辦理的學校可以度過兩個計畫銜接的這個空窗期不要這樣子讓這個人員無所適從有沒有這個機會謝謝召委我們回去會後會盤點現有的經費還有資源然後我們再進行後續的一個相關研議好可以做到啦好謝謝那我們就謝謝師長\n\n14:06.268 --> 14:10.101\n好來事務長請坐吉祥委員我跟你說\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.591,"end":4.792,"text":"現在請葛如君召委發言好 謝謝林坤澤委員協助代理宣告 作為代理主席那我們有請行政院謝慎龍參議請謝參議"},{"start":29.103,"end":51.409,"text":"蔡英你好依據今天國科會訴發部所提供的書面資料國科會已經在去年的10月22號將草案呈報行政院並由行政院辦理後續的審查作業行政院今天的書面報告則說會儘速將草案送進立法院審查本席算了一下從草案送進行政院到今天為止已經經過了205天"},{"start":54.15,"end":71.797,"text":"我想請問一下這個人工智慧基本法的草案剛剛我們這個次長也說了現在在行政院這裡那我們現在立法院的法定會期是5月31號請問行政院的草案會不會在法定會期之內就是5月31號以前送進立法院來審查會還是不會跟委員報告現在國科會在這個人工智慧基本法草案送進"},{"start":82.594,"end":106.215,"text":"院理後因為當然這個草案是大家都有共識是要一定是要設立的那因為在過程當中其實送來院去年對不起我打斷您過程我們都很清楚我想知道會還是不會5月31號以前會不會送進來審查這草案的版本目前院理還在文字調整中"},{"start":107.867,"end":129.557,"text":"政委那邊也都在協助所以這個奇怪囉剛剛訴發部說已經送他們的版本進去然後在行政院裡面那已經在行政院裡面了國科會主委還要去協助因為現在這個法到底是誰打到底是行政院的還是訴發部的還是國科會的因為這法案"},{"start":130.393,"end":153.292,"text":"基本法大家大概都有立法的共識所以因為在那個磋商過程中在審查過程中相關的意見也要觀察國際的趨勢這些來調整好 收到 謝謝啊我們大概知道你的大意啦就是現在還在神隱啦不過沒關係我們先了解一下這個過去您剛剛講過程嘛行政院在2月26號根據國科會的說法"},{"start":155.854,"end":176.2,"text":"是2月26號指示將人工智慧基本法的主管機關由國科會改為速發部但是很神奇啊我們翻閱了今天行政院的書院報告對這件事情隻字未提完全避而不談在以本席在4月29號總質詢的時候當面向院長請教這件事情卓院長也承諾在會後"},{"start":177.9,"end":204.637,"text":"馬上會提供2月26號的會議紀錄給本席但是直到今天本席依然沒有收到我們現在已經5月14號了完全沒有2月26號的會議紀錄啊到底我們一個AI基本法到轉這個所謂的部會來做主管怎麼沒有完全的一個紀錄的過程這當中有沒有什麼不可告人之處行政院為什麼沒有辦法提供會議紀錄或相關佐證資料我們一要再要啊 為什麼"},{"start":206.071,"end":232.114,"text":"跟委員報告 資料其實已經提供給委員 相關的文件2月26號的會議紀錄已經含送給委員了 這個我們等一下喔 等一下喔 我們沒有收到喔你們有含送嗎 你確定嗎是國科會那邊提供的國科會這邊有提供嗎有提供2月26號的會議紀錄我們已經有看到剪送的公文裡面有提到這個改交的過程嗎"},{"start":233.095,"end":243.779,"text":"有嗎 確認一下喔請你的幕僚把那個你確定有的話你現在你待會就印一個副本過來喔我們就沒收到啊5月22號我們就發文了5月12號發文到葛如軍委員辦公室"},{"start":252.591,"end":272.334,"text":"你是電子發文嗎 你是電子發文還是實體發文這個怎麼會有這種事情呢 如果有你現在就調出來副本好不好 你立刻提出來就是禮拜一發的嘛 我們沒有收到啊再確認一下好不好 確認一下好不好今天行政院的書面報告我們其實是還沒看到啦"},{"start":272.974,"end":295.062,"text":"無論如何,如果有你們其實今天也就可以帶過來嘛那你們的那個行政院今天的書面報告也都沒提到2月26號啊這完全是一個不知道從哪裡來的日期啊我們完全不知道這個改交的過程是什麼所以我想這個真的是要來了解一下同時呢我想我們今天的行政院的書面報告裡面也提到一個地方"},{"start":296.383,"end":310.237,"text":"說這個按照行政院的這個版本除了第七條有關我們希望來設立特別委員會的這個規定以外其他的條文是不是都跟本席的內容一樣照你們這個說法是不是這樣"},{"start":314.602,"end":333.513,"text":"這是你們今天提出來的報告 參事您今天要來是不是應該先閱讀一下我剛剛講說第七條 其實應該說之前已經回應過了沒有 就說只有這一條沒有條文相關啊 那其他就是有囉我們那條文你們都有囉 是不是這樣"},{"start":334.574,"end":362.223,"text":"重視的重點都在那個法案訂定過程都是有檢視也有納入大家的意見我想這是一定是要那個這是大家的公司就要兼顧這一些創新發展跟人權隱私的維護這一些當然一定是都會考量的好你雖然沒有回答本席的問題但沒有關係我想我們就期待你們的草案希望5月31號以前趕快提出來文字修正5月31號以前也夠了吧"},{"start":363.171,"end":390.819,"text":"可不可以送進來回去報告好我想我們再來問一下我們有說希望能夠有這個比較高層級的任務編組跨黨派的委員都有同樣的意見那我想問我們在總諮詢的時候院長跟我們說有智慧國家推動小組那我想問一下參事你知道你們的這個智慧國家推動小組的海外範圍有多廣嗎包山包海什麼都有啊"},{"start":391.898,"end":415.265,"text":"事實上我們就算你這個東西可以做好了但是我們可以看到智慧國家推動小組每年只開會一到兩次要來決定台灣的AI整體戰略而且108年 114年 110年根本也沒開會本席想要問第一個包山包海這件事情能處理AI嗎第二個"},{"start":416.626,"end":431.168,"text":"這個會有足夠的量能嗎第三個AI的業務既然這麼廣今天感謝這麼多的部會過來難道不值得專門設置一個委員會嗎我們剛剛也有委員提到啊所以這一點我希望詹士林帶回去"},{"start":432.149,"end":459.683,"text":"現在呢 我們看到你們的2024年的智慧國家推動小組的成果報告裡面24次講人工智慧 完全沒有講到戰略能不能把這一點帶回去 明確轉達給卓榮泰院長我們需要一個專門設置的委員會是 委員會 這樣我們會回去會報告是好 那麻煩了解一下那個文送過來的過程 到底送到了沒謝謝 那給副本那參議請回 接下來請國科會吳承文主委就備詢台"},{"start":467.009,"end":489.954,"text":"主委行政院剛剛現在是一個羅生門我們沒有收到資料我現在只好來請教你這個你們書面報告今天也有提到行政院今年2月26號指示這樣的一個改交那我想請教2月26號以前行政院院長有沒有跟您討論人工智慧基本法的主管機關要改交到速發部2月26號以前有沒有跟你說過我們是在當天會議的時候討論的"},{"start":493.706,"end":497.021,"text":"所以之前都沒有討論這是一個surprise是嗎"},{"start":498.51,"end":526.781,"text":"不會 因為我們在討論的過程當中其實是有提到未來要阻擇的部分當然要解釋法令這一點不好意思主委我打斷你我們這麼重要的一個AI的發展的阻擇機關竟然2月26號以前沒有討論過只有當天就直接告訴你那我們現在也拿不到會議記錄資料這到底是什麼樣的一個黑箱的過程"},{"start":527.481,"end":549.257,"text":"老實說啦 我想我們看一下 根據你們的資料其實我可以理解 國會真的做了非常多的事情這一點我要給你抱抱啊你們做了非常多的諮詢會議但是我們可以看到 速發部則是給我們回覆到現在為止完全沒有依據人工基本法 召開過任何一次的諮詢會議"},{"start":552.819,"end":561.687,"text":"所以我想 主委 我們真的是替你覺得打抱不平啦你上場投出了一個好球 投得也不錯結果中繼沒幾局就要換下場我覺得同仁都為你感到不捨啦這個是不是我們就一起來努力釐清這過程當中發生什麼事情"},{"start":570.252,"end":586.008,"text":"沒有發生什麼事情沒有發生什麼事情就2月26號一天就告訴你說不是你的了 下場我們在制定法案的過程當中其實有討論到要不要列入主政的部會但是因為"},{"start":587.069,"end":609.133,"text":"他牽涉到非常多的這個應用面是跟各部會都有關那速發部來主政的部分是以資料治理為主但是將來在施行的時候剛剛其實委員有提到要設立委員會這件事情我們其實有一個三政委的平台這個我們聽過了謝謝我打斷您謝謝這個我們理解那後面同仁你們找到這個報告了嗎2月16號的會議紀錄相關的這個資料"},{"start":614.363,"end":615.043,"text":"我們今年度有申請科專的請費"},{"start":638.318,"end":658.386,"text":"詳細的數字我可能要請我們問不到啊然後聽說現在好像還沒審查通過啊我是不是幫您跟國科會主委要求加速一下剛剛大家都說你們都很擔心你們兩邊會不會有歧義啊多少申請多少經費啊我們也要希望這個朝野有共識的"},{"start":659.548,"end":664.752,"text":"國科會申請一個4000萬的經費聽說現在還沒下來啊還沒通過啊我們跟國科會合作也要很良好這樣子沒關係我想這可能溝通上面有一些問題好不好我們是不是能夠大家這個AI主權嘛這資料很重要剛剛這個李昆哲委員也非常重視"},{"start":679.682,"end":703.235,"text":"那我想再請教次長那你現在有這個語料庫我們都非常關心這個語料庫現在都是跟政府部會內部來購買啊那這個什麼時候要來跟民間購買資料否則你現在是政府的左手跟政府的右手來買資料定價權也在你手上給錢也是你那民間呢民間也有很多寶貴的資料啊什麼時候會來向民間購買資料什麼時候會開放給民間的公司來做AI的訓練"},{"start":710.439,"end":738.098,"text":"兩個部分第一個跟委員報告我們政府的資料那我們不會是採取購買的方式因為這些不管是有著作權或沒有著作權他基本上他的著作權也是屬於這個政府部門在沒有正義的部分我們是採取無償的部分來提供的那民間的部分我們首先會採取自願的方式那事實上已經有過去已經有這個我們接下來過程中已經有民間的包括電子的這個出版品的這個廠商他願意投入這個計畫因為他也希望他的出版品"},{"start":739.259,"end":755.024,"text":"能夠成為語料庫的一部分所以可以付費跟他購買嗎我們目前沒有採取付費的機制我想這個可能要請速發部研議一下喔因為這個語料庫你不能左手跟政府自己右手買啊民間那麼寶貴的資料都不是資料嗎我們民間沒有台灣價值嗎應該有吧有有有 對不對將來我們當然會希望有獎勵的機制能夠鼓勵民間來投入這個資料庫這樣好"},{"start":763.347,"end":790.745,"text":"謝謝次長我們一起來努力不好意思我最後借30秒那有請 次長請回有請教育部的吳司長謝謝 司長本席的人工智慧基本法提案版本第九條非常重視人工智慧跟教育的結合雖然我們還沒有三讀通過但是謝謝教育部一直努力在推動科技教育很遺憾本席最近接獲第一線教師的陳情已經推行四年的5G新科技學習示範學校計畫"},{"start":791.445,"end":815.607,"text":"因為前瞻計畫的期程只到今年的8月而面臨辦公室解散人員要裁撤的困境教育部雖然有向國科會申請科技計畫我們也再次感謝國科會那依據審理的期程呢最快可能要到1月才能夠撥款我們都知道那個燈喔開關燈的過程是最耗電的能不能可以把它持續下去科技教育的研發需要投入很大量的心血啦"},{"start":816.047,"end":828.115,"text":"是不是可以不要因為計畫銜接的中斷請教師長教育部能不能進行內部預算的盤點考慮以公務預算暫時支應計畫的經費讓有意持續辦理的學校可以度過兩個計畫銜接的這個空窗期不要這樣子讓這個人員無所適從有沒有這個機會謝謝召委我們回去會後會盤點現有的經費還有資源然後我們再進行後續的一個相關研議好 可以做到啦好 謝謝那我們就謝謝師長"},{"start":846.268,"end":850.101,"text":"好 來 事務長請坐吉祥委員 我跟你說"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":235,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（10時10分）謝謝李昆澤委員作為代理主席協助宣告。有請行政院謝勝隆參議。"],["主席：請謝參議。"],["葛委員如鈞：參議，你好。依據今天國科會、數發部所提供的書面資料，國科會已經在去年10月22號將草案陳報行政院，並由行政院辦理後續審查作業。行政院今天的書面報告則說，會儘速將草案送進立法院審查。本席算了一下，從草案送進行政院到今天為止，已經過了205天，我想請問一下人工智慧基本法草案，剛剛次長也說了現在在行政院，而立法院的法定會期到5月31號，請問行政院的草案會不會在法定會期之內，也就是5月31號以前送進立法院來審查？會還是不會？"],["謝參議勝隆：在國科會將人工智慧基本法草案送進院以後，雖然大家都有共識這個草案一定要訂立，但是在過程當中，其實去年送來院……"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起！我打斷您。我們都很清楚過程，我想知道會還是不會，5月31號以前會不會送進來審查？"],["謝參議勝隆：這個草案的版本目前院裡還在文字調整中，政委也都在協處，還在作業中。"],["葛委員如鈞：奇怪！剛剛數發部說已經送了他們的版本進去，然後在行政院裡面，既然已經在行政院裡面了，國科會主委還要去協助，現在這個法到底是誰的？到底是行政院的、數發部的，還是國科會的？"],["謝參議勝隆：雖然大家對基本法都有立法共識，但在磋商、審查過程中的相關意見，也要觀察國際趨勢來調整。"],["葛委員如鈞：收到，謝謝。我們大概知道你的大意了，就是現在還在神隱，不過沒關係，我們先了解一下過去、您剛剛講的過程。根據國科會的說法，行政院在2月26號指示，將人工智慧基本法的主管機關由國科會改為數發部，但是很神奇，我們翻閱了今天行政院的書面報告，對這件事情隻字未提、完全避而不談。本席在4月29號總質詢的時候，當面向院長請教這件事情，卓院長也承諾在會後會馬上提供2月26號的會議紀錄給本席，但是直到今天本席依然沒有收到。現在已經5月14號了，完全沒有2月26號的會議紀錄，AI基本法換部會來主管，怎麼會完全沒有記錄過程？這當中有沒有什麼不可告人之處？行政院為什麼沒有辦法提供會議紀錄或相關佐證資料？我們一要再要，為什麼？"],["謝參議勝隆：資料已經提供給委員。2月26號的會議紀錄已經函送給委員了，我們在國科會提供……"],["葛委員如鈞：等一下，我們沒有收到！"],["謝參議勝隆：我們有看到……"],["葛委員如鈞：你們有函送嗎？你確定嗎？"],["謝參議勝隆：有，是國科會提供的。"],["葛委員如鈞：國科會有提供嗎？有提供2月26號的會議紀錄、佐證資料？"],["謝參議勝隆：我們已經有看到檢送的公文了。"],["葛委員如鈞：裡面有提到改交的過程嗎？有嗎？確認一下！"],["主席（謝委員龍介代）：請你的幕僚把確定提供的公文拿出來。"],["葛委員如鈞：有的話，你待會兒就印一個副本過來，我們就沒收到啊！"],["蔡處長妙慈：我們已經發文了，我非常確定，5月12號我們就發文了。"],["葛委員如鈞：5月12號發文到葛如鈞委員辦公室？"],["王科長凱平：是，沒錯。"],["主席：你是電子發文嗎？"],["葛委員如鈞：你是電子發文，還是實體發文？怎麼會有這種事情呢？"],["主席：5月12號就是……"],["葛委員如鈞：如果有，你現在就調出副本，好不好？"],["蔡處長妙慈：好，沒問題。"],["葛委員如鈞：你立刻提出來！"],["主席：就是禮拜一發的嘛？"],["王科長凱平：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：我們沒有收到！"],["主席：你再確認一下，好不好？"],["葛委員如鈞：確認一下，好不好？無論如何，從今天行政院的書面報告，我們其實還沒看到，如果有，你們今天就可以帶過來。行政院今天的書面報告都沒提到2月26號，這完全是一個不知道從哪裡來的日期，我們完全不知道改交的過程是什麼，所以我想這個真的是要來了解一下。同時，今天行政院的書面報告裡面也提到一個地方，按照行政院的版本，除了第七條有關我們希望設立特別委員會的規定以外，其他條文是不是都跟本席的內容一樣？照你們這個說法，是不是這樣？這是你們今天提出來的報告，您今天要來是不是應該先閱讀一下？"],["謝參議勝隆：委員說第七條，應該說之前已經回應過了。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有！就是只有這一條沒有相關條文，其他就是有囉？我們的條文你們都有，是不是這樣？"],["謝參議勝隆：大家重視的重點都在法案訂定過程有檢視，也有納入大家的意見，這是大家的共識，就是要兼顧創新發展跟人權隱私的委員會，這一些當然一定都會考量。"],["葛委員如鈞：你雖然沒有回答本席的問題，但沒有關係，我們就期待你們的草案，希望5月31號以前趕快提出來，文字修正5月31號以前也夠了吧？可不可以送進來？"],["謝參議勝隆：我回去會報告。"],["葛委員如鈞：回去報告？好，我再來問一下，我們希望能夠有比較高層級的任務編組，跨黨派的委員都有同樣的意見。總質詢的時候院長跟我們說，有智慧國家推動小組，我想問一下參議，你知道這個智慧國家推動小組涵蓋的範圍有多廣嗎？包山包海，什麼都有！事實上，就算這個東西可以做好了，但是智慧國家推動小組每年只開會一到兩次要來決定臺灣的AI整體戰略，而且108年、114年、110年根本也沒開會。本席想要問，第一個、包山包海這件事情能處理AI嗎？第二個、這個會有足夠的量能嗎？第三個、AI的業務既然這麼廣，今天感謝這麼多的部會過來，難道不值得設置一個專門的委員會嗎？剛剛也有委員提到，所以這一點我希望參議帶回去。現在我們看到你們2024年的智慧國家推動小組成果報告，裡面講了24次人工智慧，卻完全沒有講到戰略，能不能把這一點帶回去，明確轉達給卓榮泰院長，我們需要設置一個專門的委員會？"],["謝參議勝隆：針對委員的意見，我們回去會報告。"],["葛委員如鈞：麻煩了解一下那個文送過來的過程，到底送到了沒？謝謝，請給副本。參議，請回。","接下來請國科會吳誠文主委就備詢臺。"],["吳主任委員誠文：葛召委好。"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，剛剛是一個羅生門，我們沒有收到資料，我現在只好來請教你，你們的書面報告今天也有提到，行政院今年2月26號指示這樣的改交。我想請教2月26號以前，行政院院長有沒有跟您討論人工智慧基本法的主管機關要改交到數發部？2月26號以前，有沒有跟你說過？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們是在當天會議的時候討論的。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以之前都沒有討論，這是一個surprise，是嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不會，因為我們在討論的過程當中，其實有提到未來要主責的部會，將來要解釋法令……"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，不好意思，我打斷你。這麼重要的AI發展主責機關，竟然2月26號以前沒有討論過，只有當天就直接告訴你，而我們現在也拿不到會議紀錄資料，這到底是什麼樣的黑箱過程？老實說，根據你們的資料，我可以理解國科會真的做了非常多的事情，這一點我要給你拍拍手，你們做了非常多的諮詢會議，但是數發部則回復我們，到現在為止，完全沒有依據人工智慧基本法召開過任何一次諮詢會議。主委，我們真的替你打抱不平，你上場投出了一個好球，投得也不錯，結果中繼沒幾局就被換下場，同仁都為你感到不捨，我們是不是就一起來努力釐清這個過程當中發生什麼事情？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有發生什麼事情。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有發生什麼事情，就是2月26號一天就告訴你說不是你的了、下場。"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是、不是。我們在制定法案的過程當中，其實有討論到要不要列入主政部會，但是因為它牽涉到非常多的應用面是跟各部會都有關，數發部主政的部分是以資料治理為主，但是將來在施行的時候，剛剛其實委員有提到要設立委員會這件事情，我們其實有一個3政委的平臺……"],["葛委員如鈞：這個我們聽過了，我打斷您，謝謝，這個我們理解。","後面的同仁，你們找到這個報告了嗎？2月26號的會議紀錄相關資料？"],["蔡處長妙慈：有，我們等一下會印過去。"],["葛委員如鈞：印出來，謝謝。主委請回，抱歉，時間有限，接下來有請數發部葉寧次長。","葉寧次長，我想跟您請教剛剛不同黨派的委員都關注的AI語料庫，請教今年度要編列多少預算來執行本計畫？"],["葉次長寧：我們今年度有申請了科專的經費。"],["葛委員如鈞：多少錢？"],["葉次長寧：詳細的數字我可能要請……"],["葛委員如鈞：我們問不到，然後聽說現在好像還沒審查通過，我是不是幫您跟國科會主委要求加速一下？"],["葉次長寧：主委已經答應會全力支持，所以沒有問題。"],["葛委員如鈞：剛剛大家都很擔心你們兩邊會不會有歧異啊！申請多少經費？"],["葉次長寧：不會、不會。"],["葛委員如鈞：我們也希望朝野有共識的跨黨派……"],["葉次長寧：我們有跟國科會申請一個4,000萬的經費。"],["葛委員如鈞：4,000萬的經費聽說現在還沒下來，還沒通過啊！主委眼睛張得很大！"],["葉次長寧：我們跟國科會合作良好。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒關係，我想這可能是溝通上面有一些問題，好不好？AI主權嘛！資料很重要，剛剛李昆澤委員也非常重視。","我想再請教次長，現在有語料庫，我們都非常關心，這個語料庫現在都是跟政府部會內部購買，什麼時候要來跟民間購買資料？否則你現在是政府的左手，跟政府的右手來買資料，定價權也在你手上，給錢也是你，那民間呢？民間也有很多寶貴的資料啊！什麼時候會向民間購買資料？什麼時候會開放給民間公司做AI的訓練？"],["葉次長寧：兩個部分，第一個，跟委員報告，政府的資料我們不會是採取購買的方式，因為這些不管是有著作權或沒有著作權，基本上，著作權也是屬於政府部門，在沒有爭議的部分，我們是採取無償提供。民間的部分，我們首先會採取自願的方式，事實上，過去我們接洽的過程中，已經有民間的包括電子出版品廠商願意投入這個計畫，因為他也希望他的出版品能夠成為語料庫的一部分。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以可以付費跟他購買嗎？"],["葉次長寧：我們目前沒有採取付費的機制。"],["葛委員如鈞：我想這個可能要請數發部研議一下，因為這個語料庫你不能左手跟政府自己右手買啊！民間那麼寶貴的資料都不是資料嗎？"],["葉次長寧：政府部門不是購買。"],["葛委員如鈞：民間沒有臺灣價值嗎？應該有吧！對不對？"],["葉次長寧：有、有，將來我們當然會希望有獎勵的機制能夠鼓勵民間來投入這個資料庫。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，謝謝次長，我們一起來努力。"],["葉次長寧：謝謝委員。"],["葛委員如鈞：不好意思，我最後借30秒，次長請回。有請教育部的吳司長，謝謝。","司長，本席的人工智慧基本法提案版本第九條非常重視人工智慧跟教育的結合，雖然我們還沒有三讀通過，但是謝謝教育部一直努力在推動科技教育。很遺憾！本席最近接獲第一線教師的陳情，已經推行4年的5G新科技學習示範學校計畫，因為前瞻計畫期程只到今年8月而面臨辦公室解散、人員要裁撤的困境，教育部雖然有向國科會申請科技計畫，我們也再次感謝國科會，依據審理期程，最快可能要到1月才能夠撥款，不過我們都知道開關燈的過程是最耗電的，能不能把它持續下去？科技教育的研發需要投入很大量的心血，是不是可以不要因為計畫銜接而中斷？請教司長，教育部能不能進行內部預算的盤點，考慮以公務預算暫時支應計畫經費，讓有意持續辦理的學校可以度過兩個計畫銜接的空窗期，不要這樣讓人員無所適從，有沒有這個機會？"],["吳司長穎沺：謝謝召委，我們會後回去會盤點現有的經費還有資源，然後我們再進行後續相關的研議。"],["葛委員如鈞：可以做到？好，謝謝，我們就謝謝司長。"],["主席：司長請坐。葛召委，我跟你說，吳主委是王牌投手，你不要忘記了，換下來還另有重用。","俊憲，你們的委員說我們兩個比較好，我現在宣告你的發言順序。","下一位請林俊憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-22,23-1","speakers":["葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳宗憲","張嘉郡","洪孟楷","柯志恩","李昆澤","林俊憲","陳素月","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","葉元之","蔡其昌","劉書彬","萬美玲","張雅琳","郭昱晴","何欣純","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","游顥","徐富癸","吳沛憶","謝龍介","楊瓊瓔","范雲","林沛祥","邱若華","廖先翔","許宇甄","邱志偉"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-05-14"],"gazette_id":"1144802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144802_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員葛如鈞等37人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；二、審查委員邱若華等 17 人擬具\n「人工智慧基本法草案」案；三、審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；四、\n審查委員萬美玲等18人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；五、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「人工\n智慧基本法草案」案；六、審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；七、審查委\n員林倩綺等23人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案 （僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1144802_00004"}}}