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\"text\": \"我們的這個加護垃圾應該是足夠的如果是這樣子的應該是足夠的那有沒有什麼樣的方式就是說當然如果說各縣市他要去燒這個一般的失業廢棄物來講因為這個收入可能會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 337.871, \"end\": 338.092, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 338.092, \"end\": 338.552, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 338.552, \"end\": 338.752, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"垃\", \"start\": 338.752, \"end\": 339.213, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"圾\", \"start\": 339.213, \"end\": 339.593, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 339.593, \"end\": 339.933, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 339.933, \"end\": 340.354, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 340.354, \"end\": 341.074, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 341.074, \"end\": 341.215, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 341.215, \"end\": 341.335, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 377.335, \"text\": \"可能會更好可能會更高那中央這邊除了可能有一些緊急狀況可以做調度的話那其他好像你們也沒辦法去調度其他縣市的焚化爐去做這個燒這個垃圾的這種情形那未來的話有沒有可能就是說我們環境部可以做一個調配\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 356.169, \"end\": 356.269, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 356.269, \"end\": 356.589, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 356.589, \"end\": 356.769, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 356.769, \"end\": 356.969, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 356.969, \"end\": 357.069, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 357.069, \"end\": 357.389, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 357.389, \"end\": 357.609, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 357.609, \"end\": 358.49, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 358.49, \"end\": 359.11, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 359.11, \"end\": 359.27, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 359.27, \"end\": 360.37, \"score\": 0.959}, 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\"start\": 603.786, \"end\": 603.946, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 603.946, \"end\": 604.126, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 604.126, \"end\": 604.366, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"黑\", \"start\": 604.366, \"end\": 604.507, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 604.507, \"end\": 604.667, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"盲\", \"start\": 604.667, \"end\": 604.687, \"score\": 0.414}]}, {\"start\": 605.367, \"end\": 627.168, \"text\": \"它是不是可以收集出來用黑水盲因為黑水盲未來呢它也有一些SAF航空永續燃料用油這樣的一個處理所以我們現在是希望找到一些好的方式可以找到一些方向我們就接下來就大力的去推所以現在有看了幾種一個方案我已經提到的就是現在台灣遇到的一個問題因為如果是廚藥不好好處理拿去焚化爐燒那這個會影響到焚化爐的這個處理的量能\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 605.367, \"end\": 605.547, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 605.547, \"end\": 605.627, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 605.627, \"end\": 605.707, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 605.707, \"end\": 605.848, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 605.848, \"end\": 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00:01:27,031\n那因為我們大概在明年的這個焚化爐的量能可以起來了所以整個會有一點慢慢的平衡下來所以整個我們希望露天裸露解決然後不要有新的那個垃圾產生不要量能平衡其實這個問題就逐步的可以解決那部長你剛剛有特別提到就是全台灣48座的這個垃圾山那你是希望明年就沒有這種垃圾露天裸露的狀況嗎裸露的這個狀況那你怎麼處理\n\n5\n00:01:29,973 --> 00:01:58,550\n第一個是一定要有一些復土第二個是打包甚至說我們要再協調一下這個處理的量能夠處理得更好請其他縣市幫忙處理嗎有的是其他縣市那有的要自己去解決像桃園就要自己去盡量自己要去解決這個事情那我們基本上跟每個縣市因為每個縣市的狀況不大一樣所以我們基本上一個一個去跟他們談那目前大家都統一明年會一起來完成解決這個問題\n\n6\n00:01:59,491 --> 00:02:22,586\n好那我們是期待因為去年問題然後到今年然後現在變成明年那我們希望說能夠逐年把它解決啦另外我想請教就是說如果我們以目前全台灣27座的這個垃圾焚化爐來處理家戶垃圾那我想請教部長如果說處理家戶垃圾27座焚化爐如果互相調度的話你覺得這樣量能夠嗎\n\n7\n00:02:23,447 --> 00:02:47,527\n因為現在的垃圾粉化爐是屬於地方政府在管理那當然啦理論上的量能是夠的但是他必須要經營他會去燃燒失業廢棄物也排擠了我們家庭廢棄物的量能的確這個就是一個過去的問題但是這個問題是地方的失誤去做處理例如說桃園他們也燒了很多失業廢棄物他們裸露的也蠻多的\n\n8\n00:02:48,247 --> 00:02:58,475\n當然他們說應該這樣來解決可是他們自己都沒辦法解決這個問題所以基本上我是覺得第一個整改的速度在未來一兩年內會陸續的完成我們垃圾的問題應該在未來這幾年可以解決\n\n9\n00:03:01,872 --> 00:03:19,187\n好那我們看到我們所有的這個27座的焚化爐其中有20座都已經超過20年所以它這個燒的這種效率也許沒有那麼高那我想請教就是說以目前我們的垃圾就是那個熱脂\n\n10\n00:03:20,388 --> 00:03:41,626\n熱值都非常的高所以也可能造成我們垃圾焚化爐燒的這個效率沒有那麼好以至於很多的這個垃圾可能就堆置那我想請教就是說剛剛部長有提到可能會逐年就是裸露的這種狀況可能會逐年減少那這個我們是從去年\n\n11\n00:03:42,487 --> 00:04:01,923\n開始關心那部長也真的非常關心也有實際到地方去看好那我們對你有很大的期待然後那確定就是說希望這些裸露的狀況能夠有所改善好因為中部地區其實也有很多這個垃圾山好那可能不定時偶爾就會有這個\n\n12\n00:04:04,125 --> 00:04:22,938\n火災火燒山的這種狀況發生所以如果可以將這個垃圾裸露的這個狀況如果可以解決的話我覺得也可以改善這個垃圾山附近居民的這個生活品質那尤其有很多垃圾山就鄰近著學校\n\n13\n00:04:24,759 --> 00:04:48,420\n這個狀況真的如果可以解決的話也可以一併讓孩子們在上課的時候也不要每天都聞到那個臭味尤其是夏天的時候真的那個味道真的是非常非常的難聞委包委員因為現在大概已經降到74左右了70萬去年年底的時候說到83、84萬噸那現在有在降了那我們預計下半年因為我們陸續的這個整個作業\n\n14\n00:04:50,542 --> 00:05:11,394\n會加快它的速度所以預計下半年應該會更多明年的數字會更好看那我也想請教部長因為我們目前的這個垃圾焚化爐除了燒這個交互垃圾那有一部分也會燒失業廢棄物那這個失業廢棄物他們所收的這個價格可能\n\n15\n00:05:12,094 --> 00:05:35,690\n跟這個非自己轄內的這個廢棄物的話這個價格還要高嘛那我想請教就是說像有一些縣市比如說堆置的這個垃圾他自己真的確實是沒辦法去處理那我剛剛有問部長嘛如果這些這幾座27座的垃圾焚化爐如果純粹來燒\n\n16\n00:05:37,871 --> 00:05:53,286\n我們的這個加護垃圾應該是足夠的如果是這樣子的應該是足夠的那有沒有什麼樣的方式就是說當然如果說各縣市他要去燒這個一般的失業廢棄物來講因為這個收入可能會\n\n17\n00:05:56,169 --> 00:06:17,335\n可能會更好可能會更高那中央這邊除了可能有一些緊急狀況可以做調度的話那其他好像你們也沒辦法去調度其他縣市的焚化爐去做這個燒這個垃圾的這種情形那未來的話有沒有可能就是說我們環境部可以做一個調配\n\n18\n00:06:18,735 --> 00:06:43,820\n好就是說如果你目前27座焚化爐而且就是都已經20年以上了其實我覺得那個效率可能也可能會越來然後可能又會碰到稅休的狀況那是不是有可能未來透過修法或者其他的方式我們環境部也可以去做這樣的一個垃圾的一個調配針對我們的一般的這個家庭的這個廢棄物\n\n19\n00:06:45,491 --> 00:07:09,213\n報告委員第一個是說我們的調度只針對沒有分化如設備處理的縣市會幫忙做調度例如說南投等等那大多數的縣市因為他們自己要這樣燒因為他基本上會採取促餐的方式或BOT的方式能夠獲得民間的裁員所以他才會去燒事業廢棄物這個我們都尊重但是過去的體制就變成這個樣子了\n\n20\n00:07:10,214 --> 00:07:39,814\n那未來呢我也贊同委員的觀點我們未來是希望說不是說我們要興建廢棄物而是說我們希望全循環的流向的這個處理例如說有一個園區它可以從這個源頭到最後末端都可以很好的處理這個希望我們在台灣能夠設幾個地方自己有自己的量能把這個產業扶持起來這個是我們中長期的一個目標所以目前我們大概也跟行政院提出一個相關的計畫所以希望明年可以爭取到預算能夠來做這個事情\n\n21\n00:07:40,494 --> 00:08:01,468\n那部長我們剛剛講那個後端的處理那我們這個源頭減量其實確實也是非常的重要那我看到就是說你們的預算就是這個大部分花了這個十幾億在處理垃圾那這個源頭減量的部分預算跟這個處理垃圾相差二十幾倍\n\n22\n00:08:02,429 --> 00:08:29,681\n那我因為在地方我有看到好多議員在質詢就是說我們資源回收的那個價格其實不是那麼高那我在這邊是不是也有可能就是說環境部這邊針對源頭減量的這個預算是不是也可以逐年增加那我如果可以在源頭減量的話那我是不是就未來這個處理垃圾的這個經費就可以減少嗎\n\n23\n00:08:32,222 --> 00:08:59,603\n好那垃圾製造垃圾的這個狀況就會減少嘛所以我不知道說這個環境部針對這部分就是有關這個源頭減量的這個經費是不是未來會有所提升對包圍這個我們自己的預算這塊源頭減量是我們的重點就這個就是循環經濟那我們會增加不過地方的這個不見得就會增加因為地方有些縣市會重視有些縣市不大重視\n\n24\n00:09:00,303 --> 00:09:19,055\n所以這個地方我們還要因地制宜能夠來鼓勵他們能夠增加這樣的預算那部長我想請教就是說我們這個處於處理其實我發現有一些就是處於處理其實不是那麼的確實\n\n25\n00:09:21,036 --> 00:09:45,141\n那這個也會造成我們焚化爐的那個壽命可能有時候就是會減短那你怎麼樣去針對這個廚餘廚餘的回收或廚餘的處理你們環境部這邊會怎麼跟地方這邊來配合我覺得這應該是一個很重要因為有時候我們會看到如果說這個廚餘沒有他可能就直接丟到垃圾車裡面去了\n\n26\n00:09:47,215 --> 00:10:04,687\n現在我們觀察有兩種方式一個是有些縣市像屏東或台南他們鼓勵補助一些廚藥機整個就處理掉我們也在觀察他們使用的效果如何到底有沒有會造成一些負面的效益另外一個就是我們有開始在研究黑水盲\n\n27\n00:10:05,367 --> 00:10:27,168\n它是不是可以收集出來用黑水盲因為黑水盲未來呢它也有一些SAF航空永續燃料用油這樣的一個處理所以我們現在是希望找到一些好的方式可以找到一些方向我們就接下來就大力的去推所以現在有看了幾種一個方案我已經提到的就是現在台灣遇到的一個問題因為如果是廚藥不好好處理拿去焚化爐燒那這個會影響到焚化爐的這個處理的量能\n\n28\n00:10:30,692 --> 00:10:58,593\n所以我覺得說應該也要盡快因為我們在去年的時候委員會也有去有去考察去看那個黑水盲那確實它真的應該這個效能應該還不錯所以有的公所他們自己本身有在做那其實我覺得好像推廣的不是那麼全面如果說還不錯的話其實我覺得應該要從環境部自己本身來做推動\n\n29\n00:11:00,195 --> 00:11:01,783\n好不好好謝謝我也在建議好好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t5026\t謝謝主席 我們請部長\n10425\t33601\t黃委員好部長好 部長在去年你剛上任的時候那當時我也當召委那有針對我們垃圾的這個問題堆置的問題也有排一個專報那當時部長也非常關心那你自己也有到地方有下去看嗎那我想請教就是說從我們的那個露天的堆置垃圾量是\n34301\t60912\t每一年每一年都一直在增加那我不知道說部長你從去年這樣看然後你有什麼樣的一個解決方式幫委員我們訂了一個計劃就是明年年底不要露天裸露因為露天裸露是讓附近大概有48個露天裸露的點的確附近的居民生活都很困難那個味道或是整個蒼蠅非常的多所以我們先解決這個問題\n61992\t87031\t那因為我們大概在明年的這個焚化爐的量能可以起來了所以整個會有一點慢慢的平衡下來所以整個我們希望露天裸露解決然後不要有新的那個垃圾產生不要量能平衡其實這個問題就逐步的可以解決那部長你剛剛有特別提到就是全台灣48座的這個垃圾山那你是希望明年就沒有這種垃圾露天裸露的狀況嗎裸露的這個狀況那你怎麼處理\n89973\t118550\t第一個是一定要有一些復土第二個是打包甚至說我們要再協調一下這個處理的量能夠處理得更好請其他縣市幫忙處理嗎有的是其他縣市那有的要自己去解決像桃園就要自己去盡量自己要去解決這個事情那我們基本上跟每個縣市因為每個縣市的狀況不大一樣所以我們基本上一個一個去跟他們談那目前大家都統一明年會一起來完成解決這個問題\n119491\t142586\t好那我們是期待因為去年問題然後到今年然後現在變成明年那我們希望說能夠逐年把它解決啦另外我想請教就是說如果我們以目前全台灣27座的這個垃圾焚化爐來處理家戶垃圾那我想請教部長如果說處理家戶垃圾27座焚化爐如果互相調度的話你覺得這樣量能夠嗎\n143447\t167527\t因為現在的垃圾粉化爐是屬於地方政府在管理那當然啦理論上的量能是夠的但是他必須要經營他會去燃燒失業廢棄物也排擠了我們家庭廢棄物的量能的確這個就是一個過去的問題但是這個問題是地方的失誤去做處理例如說桃園他們也燒了很多失業廢棄物他們裸露的也蠻多的\n168247\t178475\t當然他們說應該這樣來解決可是他們自己都沒辦法解決這個問題所以基本上我是覺得第一個整改的速度在未來一兩年內會陸續的完成我們垃圾的問題應該在未來這幾年可以解決\n181872\t199187\t好那我們看到我們所有的這個27座的焚化爐其中有20座都已經超過20年所以它這個燒的這種效率也許沒有那麼高那我想請教就是說以目前我們的垃圾就是那個熱脂\n200388\t221626\t熱值都非常的高所以也可能造成我們垃圾焚化爐燒的這個效率沒有那麼好以至於很多的這個垃圾可能就堆置那我想請教就是說剛剛部長有提到可能會逐年就是裸露的這種狀況可能會逐年減少那這個我們是從去年\n222487\t241923\t開始關心那部長也真的非常關心也有實際到地方去看好那我們對你有很大的期待然後那確定就是說希望這些裸露的狀況能夠有所改善好因為中部地區其實也有很多這個垃圾山好那可能不定時偶爾就會有這個\n244125\t262938\t火災火燒山的這種狀況發生所以如果可以將這個垃圾裸露的這個狀況如果可以解決的話我覺得也可以改善這個垃圾山附近居民的這個生活品質那尤其有很多垃圾山就鄰近著學校\n264759\t288420\t這個狀況真的如果可以解決的話也可以一併讓孩子們在上課的時候也不要每天都聞到那個臭味尤其是夏天的時候真的那個味道真的是非常非常的難聞委包委員因為現在大概已經降到74左右了70萬去年年底的時候說到83、84萬噸那現在有在降了那我們預計下半年因為我們陸續的這個整個作業\n290542\t311394\t會加快它的速度所以預計下半年應該會更多明年的數字會更好看那我也想請教部長因為我們目前的這個垃圾焚化爐除了燒這個交互垃圾那有一部分也會燒失業廢棄物那這個失業廢棄物他們所收的這個價格可能\n312094\t335690\t跟這個非自己轄內的這個廢棄物的話這個價格還要高嘛那我想請教就是說像有一些縣市比如說堆置的這個垃圾他自己真的確實是沒辦法去處理那我剛剛有問部長嘛如果這些這幾座27座的垃圾焚化爐如果純粹來燒\n337871\t353286\t我們的這個加護垃圾應該是足夠的如果是這樣子的應該是足夠的那有沒有什麼樣的方式就是說當然如果說各縣市他要去燒這個一般的失業廢棄物來講因為這個收入可能會\n356169\t377335\t可能會更好可能會更高那中央這邊除了可能有一些緊急狀況可以做調度的話那其他好像你們也沒辦法去調度其他縣市的焚化爐去做這個燒這個垃圾的這種情形那未來的話有沒有可能就是說我們環境部可以做一個調配\n378735\t403820\t好就是說如果你目前27座焚化爐而且就是都已經20年以上了其實我覺得那個效率可能也可能會越來然後可能又會碰到稅休的狀況那是不是有可能未來透過修法或者其他的方式我們環境部也可以去做這樣的一個垃圾的一個調配針對我們的一般的這個家庭的這個廢棄物\n405491\t429213\t報告委員第一個是說我們的調度只針對沒有分化如設備處理的縣市會幫忙做調度例如說南投等等那大多數的縣市因為他們自己要這樣燒因為他基本上會採取促餐的方式或BOT的方式能夠獲得民間的裁員所以他才會去燒事業廢棄物這個我們都尊重但是過去的體制就變成這個樣子了\n430214\t459814\t那未來呢我也贊同委員的觀點我們未來是希望說不是說我們要興建廢棄物而是說我們希望全循環的流向的這個處理例如說有一個園區它可以從這個源頭到最後末端都可以很好的處理這個希望我們在台灣能夠設幾個地方自己有自己的量能把這個產業扶持起來這個是我們中長期的一個目標所以目前我們大概也跟行政院提出一個相關的計畫所以希望明年可以爭取到預算能夠來做這個事情\n460494\t481468\t那部長我們剛剛講那個後端的處理那我們這個源頭減量其實確實也是非常的重要那我看到就是說你們的預算就是這個大部分花了這個十幾億在處理垃圾那這個源頭減量的部分預算跟這個處理垃圾相差二十幾倍\n482429\t509681\t那我因為在地方我有看到好多議員在質詢就是說我們資源回收的那個價格其實不是那麼高那我在這邊是不是也有可能就是說環境部這邊針對源頭減量的這個預算是不是也可以逐年增加那我如果可以在源頭減量的話那我是不是就未來這個處理垃圾的這個經費就可以減少嗎\n512222\t539603\t好 那垃圾 製造垃圾的這個狀況就會減少嘛所以我不知道說這個環境部針對這部分就是有關這個源頭減量的這個經費是不是未來會有所提升對 包圍這個我們自己的預算這塊源頭減量是我們的重點就這個就是循環經濟那我們會增加不過地方的這個不見得就會增加因為地方有些縣市會重視有些縣市不大重視\n540303\t559055\t所以這個地方我們還要因地制宜能夠來鼓勵他們能夠增加這樣的預算那部長我想請教就是說我們這個處於處理其實我發現有一些就是處於處理其實不是那麼的確實\n561036\t585141\t那這個也會造成我們焚化爐的那個壽命可能有時候就是會減短那你怎麼樣去針對這個廚餘廚餘的回收或廚餘的處理你們環境部這邊會怎麼跟地方這邊來配合我覺得這應該是一個很重要因為有時候我們會看到如果說這個廚餘沒有他可能就直接丟到垃圾車裡面去了\n587215\t604687\t現在我們觀察有兩種方式一個是有些縣市像屏東或台南他們鼓勵補助一些廚藥機整個就處理掉我們也在觀察他們使用的效果如何到底有沒有會造成一些負面的效益另外一個就是我們有開始在研究黑水盲\n605367\t627168\t它是不是可以收集出來用黑水盲因為黑水盲未來呢它也有一些SAF航空永續燃料用油這樣的一個處理所以我們現在是希望找到一些好的方式可以找到一些方向我們就接下來就大力的去推所以現在有看了幾種一個方案我已經提到的就是現在台灣遇到的一個問題因為如果是廚藥不好好處理拿去焚化爐燒那這個會影響到焚化爐的這個處理的量能\n630692\t658593\t所以我覺得說應該也要盡快因為我們在去年的時候委員會也有去有去考察去看那個黑水盲那確實它真的應該這個效能應該還不錯所以有的公所他們自己本身有在做那其實我覺得好像推廣的不是那麼全面如果說還不錯的話其實我覺得應該要從環境部自己本身來做推動\n660195\t661783\t好不好好謝謝我也在建議好好好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請部長\n黃委員好部長好 部長在去年你剛上任的時候那當時我也當召委那有針對我們垃圾的這個問題堆置的問題也有排一個專報那當時部長也非常關心那你自己也有到地方有下去看嗎那我想請教就是說從我們的那個露天的堆置垃圾量是\n每一年每一年都一直在增加那我不知道說部長你從去年這樣看然後你有什麼樣的一個解決方式幫委員我們訂了一個計劃就是明年年底不要露天裸露因為露天裸露是讓附近大概有48個露天裸露的點的確附近的居民生活都很困難那個味道或是整個蒼蠅非常的多所以我們先解決這個問題\n那因為我們大概在明年的這個焚化爐的量能可以起來了所以整個會有一點慢慢的平衡下來所以整個我們希望露天裸露解決然後不要有新的那個垃圾產生不要量能平衡其實這個問題就逐步的可以解決那部長你剛剛有特別提到就是全台灣48座的這個垃圾山那你是希望明年就沒有這種垃圾露天裸露的狀況嗎裸露的這個狀況那你怎麼處理\n第一個是一定要有一些復土第二個是打包甚至說我們要再協調一下這個處理的量能夠處理得更好請其他縣市幫忙處理嗎有的是其他縣市那有的要自己去解決像桃園就要自己去盡量自己要去解決這個事情那我們基本上跟每個縣市因為每個縣市的狀況不大一樣所以我們基本上一個一個去跟他們談那目前大家都統一明年會一起來完成解決這個問題\n好那我們是期待因為去年問題然後到今年然後現在變成明年那我們希望說能夠逐年把它解決啦另外我想請教就是說如果我們以目前全台灣27座的這個垃圾焚化爐來處理家戶垃圾那我想請教部長如果說處理家戶垃圾27座焚化爐如果互相調度的話你覺得這樣量能夠嗎\n因為現在的垃圾粉化爐是屬於地方政府在管理那當然啦理論上的量能是夠的但是他必須要經營他會去燃燒失業廢棄物也排擠了我們家庭廢棄物的量能的確這個就是一個過去的問題但是這個問題是地方的失誤去做處理例如說桃園他們也燒了很多失業廢棄物他們裸露的也蠻多的\n當然他們說應該這樣來解決可是他們自己都沒辦法解決這個問題所以基本上我是覺得第一個整改的速度在未來一兩年內會陸續的完成我們垃圾的問題應該在未來這幾年可以解決\n好那我們看到我們所有的這個27座的焚化爐其中有20座都已經超過20年所以它這個燒的這種效率也許沒有那麼高那我想請教就是說以目前我們的垃圾就是那個熱脂\n熱值都非常的高所以也可能造成我們垃圾焚化爐燒的這個效率沒有那麼好以至於很多的這個垃圾可能就堆置那我想請教就是說剛剛部長有提到可能會逐年就是裸露的這種狀況可能會逐年減少那這個我們是從去年\n開始關心那部長也真的非常關心也有實際到地方去看好那我們對你有很大的期待然後那確定就是說希望這些裸露的狀況能夠有所改善好因為中部地區其實也有很多這個垃圾山好那可能不定時偶爾就會有這個\n火災火燒山的這種狀況發生所以如果可以將這個垃圾裸露的這個狀況如果可以解決的話我覺得也可以改善這個垃圾山附近居民的這個生活品質那尤其有很多垃圾山就鄰近著學校\n這個狀況真的如果可以解決的話也可以一併讓孩子們在上課的時候也不要每天都聞到那個臭味尤其是夏天的時候真的那個味道真的是非常非常的難聞委包委員因為現在大概已經降到74左右了70萬去年年底的時候說到83、84萬噸那現在有在降了那我們預計下半年因為我們陸續的這個整個作業\n會加快它的速度所以預計下半年應該會更多明年的數字會更好看那我也想請教部長因為我們目前的這個垃圾焚化爐除了燒這個交互垃圾那有一部分也會燒失業廢棄物那這個失業廢棄物他們所收的這個價格可能\n跟這個非自己轄內的這個廢棄物的話這個價格還要高嘛那我想請教就是說像有一些縣市比如說堆置的這個垃圾他自己真的確實是沒辦法去處理那我剛剛有問部長嘛如果這些這幾座27座的垃圾焚化爐如果純粹來燒\n我們的這個加護垃圾應該是足夠的如果是這樣子的應該是足夠的那有沒有什麼樣的方式就是說當然如果說各縣市他要去燒這個一般的失業廢棄物來講因為這個收入可能會\n可能會更好可能會更高那中央這邊除了可能有一些緊急狀況可以做調度的話那其他好像你們也沒辦法去調度其他縣市的焚化爐去做這個燒這個垃圾的這種情形那未來的話有沒有可能就是說我們環境部可以做一個調配\n好就是說如果你目前27座焚化爐而且就是都已經20年以上了其實我覺得那個效率可能也可能會越來然後可能又會碰到稅休的狀況那是不是有可能未來透過修法或者其他的方式我們環境部也可以去做這樣的一個垃圾的一個調配針對我們的一般的這個家庭的這個廢棄物\n報告委員第一個是說我們的調度只針對沒有分化如設備處理的縣市會幫忙做調度例如說南投等等那大多數的縣市因為他們自己要這樣燒因為他基本上會採取促餐的方式或BOT的方式能夠獲得民間的裁員所以他才會去燒事業廢棄物這個我們都尊重但是過去的體制就變成這個樣子了\n那未來呢我也贊同委員的觀點我們未來是希望說不是說我們要興建廢棄物而是說我們希望全循環的流向的這個處理例如說有一個園區它可以從這個源頭到最後末端都可以很好的處理這個希望我們在台灣能夠設幾個地方自己有自己的量能把這個產業扶持起來這個是我們中長期的一個目標所以目前我們大概也跟行政院提出一個相關的計畫所以希望明年可以爭取到預算能夠來做這個事情\n那部長我們剛剛講那個後端的處理那我們這個源頭減量其實確實也是非常的重要那我看到就是說你們的預算就是這個大部分花了這個十幾億在處理垃圾那這個源頭減量的部分預算跟這個處理垃圾相差二十幾倍\n那我因為在地方我有看到好多議員在質詢就是說我們資源回收的那個價格其實不是那麼高那我在這邊是不是也有可能就是說環境部這邊針對源頭減量的這個預算是不是也可以逐年增加那我如果可以在源頭減量的話那我是不是就未來這個處理垃圾的這個經費就可以減少嗎\n好 那垃圾 製造垃圾的這個狀況就會減少嘛所以我不知道說這個環境部針對這部分就是有關這個源頭減量的這個經費是不是未來會有所提升對 包圍這個我們自己的預算這塊源頭減量是我們的重點就這個就是循環經濟那我們會增加不過地方的這個不見得就會增加因為地方有些縣市會重視有些縣市不大重視\n所以這個地方我們還要因地制宜能夠來鼓勵他們能夠增加這樣的預算那部長我想請教就是說我們這個處於處理其實我發現有一些就是處於處理其實不是那麼的確實\n那這個也會造成我們焚化爐的那個壽命可能有時候就是會減短那你怎麼樣去針對這個廚餘廚餘的回收或廚餘的處理你們環境部這邊會怎麼跟地方這邊來配合我覺得這應該是一個很重要因為有時候我們會看到如果說這個廚餘沒有他可能就直接丟到垃圾車裡面去了\n現在我們觀察有兩種方式一個是有些縣市像屏東或台南他們鼓勵補助一些廚藥機整個就處理掉我們也在觀察他們使用的效果如何到底有沒有會造成一些負面的效益另外一個就是我們有開始在研究黑水盲\n它是不是可以收集出來用黑水盲因為黑水盲未來呢它也有一些SAF航空永續燃料用油這樣的一個處理所以我們現在是希望找到一些好的方式可以找到一些方向我們就接下來就大力的去推所以現在有看了幾種一個方案我已經提到的就是現在台灣遇到的一個問題因為如果是廚藥不好好處理拿去焚化爐燒那這個會影響到焚化爐的這個處理的量能\n所以我覺得說應該也要盡快因為我們在去年的時候委員會也有去有去考察去看那個黑水盲那確實它真的應該這個效能應該還不錯所以有的公所他們自己本身有在做那其實我覺得好像推廣的不是那麼全面如果說還不錯的話其實我覺得應該要從環境部自己本身來做推動\n好不好好謝謝我也在建議好好好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:05.026\n謝謝主席我們請部長\n\n00:10.425 --> 00:33.601\n黃委員好部長好部長在去年你剛上任的時候那當時我也當召委那有針對我們垃圾的這個問題堆置的問題也有排一個專報那當時部長也非常關心那你自己也有到地方有下去看嗎那我想請教就是說從我們的那個露天的堆置垃圾量是\n\n00:34.301 --> 01:00.912\n每一年每一年都一直在增加那我不知道說部長你從去年這樣看然後你有什麼樣的一個解決方式幫委員我們訂了一個計劃就是明年年底不要露天裸露因為露天裸露是讓附近大概有48個露天裸露的點的確附近的居民生活都很困難那個味道或是整個蒼蠅非常的多所以我們先解決這個問題\n\n01:01.992 --> 01:27.031\n那因為我們大概在明年的這個焚化爐的量能可以起來了所以整個會有一點慢慢的平衡下來所以整個我們希望露天裸露解決然後不要有新的那個垃圾產生不要量能平衡其實這個問題就逐步的可以解決那部長你剛剛有特別提到就是全台灣48座的這個垃圾山那你是希望明年就沒有這種垃圾露天裸露的狀況嗎裸露的這個狀況那你怎麼處理\n\n01:29.973 --> 01:58.550\n第一個是一定要有一些復土第二個是打包甚至說我們要再協調一下這個處理的量能夠處理得更好請其他縣市幫忙處理嗎有的是其他縣市那有的要自己去解決像桃園就要自己去盡量自己要去解決這個事情那我們基本上跟每個縣市因為每個縣市的狀況不大一樣所以我們基本上一個一個去跟他們談那目前大家都統一明年會一起來完成解決這個問題\n\n01:59.491 --> 02:22.586\n好那我們是期待因為去年問題然後到今年然後現在變成明年那我們希望說能夠逐年把它解決啦另外我想請教就是說如果我們以目前全台灣27座的這個垃圾焚化爐來處理家戶垃圾那我想請教部長如果說處理家戶垃圾27座焚化爐如果互相調度的話你覺得這樣量能夠嗎\n\n02:23.447 --> 02:47.527\n因為現在的垃圾粉化爐是屬於地方政府在管理那當然啦理論上的量能是夠的但是他必須要經營他會去燃燒失業廢棄物也排擠了我們家庭廢棄物的量能的確這個就是一個過去的問題但是這個問題是地方的失誤去做處理例如說桃園他們也燒了很多失業廢棄物他們裸露的也蠻多的\n\n02:48.247 --> 02:58.475\n當然他們說應該這樣來解決可是他們自己都沒辦法解決這個問題所以基本上我是覺得第一個整改的速度在未來一兩年內會陸續的完成我們垃圾的問題應該在未來這幾年可以解決\n\n03:01.872 --> 03:19.187\n好那我們看到我們所有的這個27座的焚化爐其中有20座都已經超過20年所以它這個燒的這種效率也許沒有那麼高那我想請教就是說以目前我們的垃圾就是那個熱脂\n\n03:20.388 --> 03:41.626\n熱值都非常的高所以也可能造成我們垃圾焚化爐燒的這個效率沒有那麼好以至於很多的這個垃圾可能就堆置那我想請教就是說剛剛部長有提到可能會逐年就是裸露的這種狀況可能會逐年減少那這個我們是從去年\n\n03:42.487 --> 04:01.923\n開始關心那部長也真的非常關心也有實際到地方去看好那我們對你有很大的期待然後那確定就是說希望這些裸露的狀況能夠有所改善好因為中部地區其實也有很多這個垃圾山好那可能不定時偶爾就會有這個\n\n04:04.125 --> 04:22.938\n火災火燒山的這種狀況發生所以如果可以將這個垃圾裸露的這個狀況如果可以解決的話我覺得也可以改善這個垃圾山附近居民的這個生活品質那尤其有很多垃圾山就鄰近著學校\n\n04:24.759 --> 04:48.420\n這個狀況真的如果可以解決的話也可以一併讓孩子們在上課的時候也不要每天都聞到那個臭味尤其是夏天的時候真的那個味道真的是非常非常的難聞委包委員因為現在大概已經降到74左右了70萬去年年底的時候說到83、84萬噸那現在有在降了那我們預計下半年因為我們陸續的這個整個作業\n\n04:50.542 --> 05:11.394\n會加快它的速度所以預計下半年應該會更多明年的數字會更好看那我也想請教部長因為我們目前的這個垃圾焚化爐除了燒這個交互垃圾那有一部分也會燒失業廢棄物那這個失業廢棄物他們所收的這個價格可能\n\n05:12.094 --> 05:35.690\n跟這個非自己轄內的這個廢棄物的話這個價格還要高嘛那我想請教就是說像有一些縣市比如說堆置的這個垃圾他自己真的確實是沒辦法去處理那我剛剛有問部長嘛如果這些這幾座27座的垃圾焚化爐如果純粹來燒\n\n05:37.871 --> 05:53.286\n我們的這個加護垃圾應該是足夠的如果是這樣子的應該是足夠的那有沒有什麼樣的方式就是說當然如果說各縣市他要去燒這個一般的失業廢棄物來講因為這個收入可能會\n\n05:56.169 --> 06:17.335\n可能會更好可能會更高那中央這邊除了可能有一些緊急狀況可以做調度的話那其他好像你們也沒辦法去調度其他縣市的焚化爐去做這個燒這個垃圾的這種情形那未來的話有沒有可能就是說我們環境部可以做一個調配\n\n06:18.735 --> 06:43.820\n好就是說如果你目前27座焚化爐而且就是都已經20年以上了其實我覺得那個效率可能也可能會越來然後可能又會碰到稅休的狀況那是不是有可能未來透過修法或者其他的方式我們環境部也可以去做這樣的一個垃圾的一個調配針對我們的一般的這個家庭的這個廢棄物\n\n06:45.491 --> 07:09.213\n報告委員第一個是說我們的調度只針對沒有分化如設備處理的縣市會幫忙做調度例如說南投等等那大多數的縣市因為他們自己要這樣燒因為他基本上會採取促餐的方式或BOT的方式能夠獲得民間的裁員所以他才會去燒事業廢棄物這個我們都尊重但是過去的體制就變成這個樣子了\n\n07:10.214 --> 07:39.814\n那未來呢我也贊同委員的觀點我們未來是希望說不是說我們要興建廢棄物而是說我們希望全循環的流向的這個處理例如說有一個園區它可以從這個源頭到最後末端都可以很好的處理這個希望我們在台灣能夠設幾個地方自己有自己的量能把這個產業扶持起來這個是我們中長期的一個目標所以目前我們大概也跟行政院提出一個相關的計畫所以希望明年可以爭取到預算能夠來做這個事情\n\n07:40.494 --> 08:01.468\n那部長我們剛剛講那個後端的處理那我們這個源頭減量其實確實也是非常的重要那我看到就是說你們的預算就是這個大部分花了這個十幾億在處理垃圾那這個源頭減量的部分預算跟這個處理垃圾相差二十幾倍\n\n08:02.429 --> 08:29.681\n那我因為在地方我有看到好多議員在質詢就是說我們資源回收的那個價格其實不是那麼高那我在這邊是不是也有可能就是說環境部這邊針對源頭減量的這個預算是不是也可以逐年增加那我如果可以在源頭減量的話那我是不是就未來這個處理垃圾的這個經費就可以減少嗎\n\n08:32.222 --> 08:59.603\n好那垃圾製造垃圾的這個狀況就會減少嘛所以我不知道說這個環境部針對這部分就是有關這個源頭減量的這個經費是不是未來會有所提升對包圍這個我們自己的預算這塊源頭減量是我們的重點就這個就是循環經濟那我們會增加不過地方的這個不見得就會增加因為地方有些縣市會重視有些縣市不大重視\n\n09:00.303 --> 09:19.055\n所以這個地方我們還要因地制宜能夠來鼓勵他們能夠增加這樣的預算那部長我想請教就是說我們這個處於處理其實我發現有一些就是處於處理其實不是那麼的確實\n\n09:21.036 --> 09:45.141\n那這個也會造成我們焚化爐的那個壽命可能有時候就是會減短那你怎麼樣去針對這個廚餘廚餘的回收或廚餘的處理你們環境部這邊會怎麼跟地方這邊來配合我覺得這應該是一個很重要因為有時候我們會看到如果說這個廚餘沒有他可能就直接丟到垃圾車裡面去了\n\n09:47.215 --> 10:04.687\n現在我們觀察有兩種方式一個是有些縣市像屏東或台南他們鼓勵補助一些廚藥機整個就處理掉我們也在觀察他們使用的效果如何到底有沒有會造成一些負面的效益另外一個就是我們有開始在研究黑水盲\n\n10:05.367 --> 10:27.168\n它是不是可以收集出來用黑水盲因為黑水盲未來呢它也有一些SAF航空永續燃料用油這樣的一個處理所以我們現在是希望找到一些好的方式可以找到一些方向我們就接下來就大力的去推所以現在有看了幾種一個方案我已經提到的就是現在台灣遇到的一個問題因為如果是廚藥不好好處理拿去焚化爐燒那這個會影響到焚化爐的這個處理的量能\n\n10:30.692 --> 10:58.593\n所以我覺得說應該也要盡快因為我們在去年的時候委員會也有去有去考察去看那個黑水盲那確實它真的應該這個效能應該還不錯所以有的公所他們自己本身有在做那其實我覺得好像推廣的不是那麼全面如果說還不錯的話其實我覺得應該要從環境部自己本身來做推動\n\n11:00.195 --> 11:01.783\n好不好好謝謝我也在建議好好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":5.026,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請部長"},{"start":10.425,"end":33.601,"text":"黃委員好部長好 部長在去年你剛上任的時候那當時我也當召委那有針對我們垃圾的這個問題堆置的問題也有排一個專報那當時部長也非常關心那你自己也有到地方有下去看嗎那我想請教就是說從我們的那個露天的堆置垃圾量是"},{"start":34.301,"end":60.912,"text":"每一年每一年都一直在增加那我不知道說部長你從去年這樣看然後你有什麼樣的一個解決方式幫委員我們訂了一個計劃就是明年年底不要露天裸露因為露天裸露是讓附近大概有48個露天裸露的點的確附近的居民生活都很困難那個味道或是整個蒼蠅非常的多所以我們先解決這個問題"},{"start":61.992,"end":87.031,"text":"那因為我們大概在明年的這個焚化爐的量能可以起來了所以整個會有一點慢慢的平衡下來所以整個我們希望露天裸露解決然後不要有新的那個垃圾產生不要量能平衡其實這個問題就逐步的可以解決那部長你剛剛有特別提到就是全台灣48座的這個垃圾山那你是希望明年就沒有這種垃圾露天裸露的狀況嗎裸露的這個狀況那你怎麼處理"},{"start":89.973,"end":118.55,"text":"第一個是一定要有一些復土第二個是打包甚至說我們要再協調一下這個處理的量能夠處理得更好請其他縣市幫忙處理嗎有的是其他縣市那有的要自己去解決像桃園就要自己去盡量自己要去解決這個事情那我們基本上跟每個縣市因為每個縣市的狀況不大一樣所以我們基本上一個一個去跟他們談那目前大家都統一明年會一起來完成解決這個問題"},{"start":119.491,"end":142.586,"text":"好那我們是期待因為去年問題然後到今年然後現在變成明年那我們希望說能夠逐年把它解決啦另外我想請教就是說如果我們以目前全台灣27座的這個垃圾焚化爐來處理家戶垃圾那我想請教部長如果說處理家戶垃圾27座焚化爐如果互相調度的話你覺得這樣量能夠嗎"},{"start":143.447,"end":167.527,"text":"因為現在的垃圾粉化爐是屬於地方政府在管理那當然啦理論上的量能是夠的但是他必須要經營他會去燃燒失業廢棄物也排擠了我們家庭廢棄物的量能的確這個就是一個過去的問題但是這個問題是地方的失誤去做處理例如說桃園他們也燒了很多失業廢棄物他們裸露的也蠻多的"},{"start":168.247,"end":178.475,"text":"當然他們說應該這樣來解決可是他們自己都沒辦法解決這個問題所以基本上我是覺得第一個整改的速度在未來一兩年內會陸續的完成我們垃圾的問題應該在未來這幾年可以解決"},{"start":181.872,"end":199.187,"text":"好那我們看到我們所有的這個27座的焚化爐其中有20座都已經超過20年所以它這個燒的這種效率也許沒有那麼高那我想請教就是說以目前我們的垃圾就是那個熱脂"},{"start":200.388,"end":221.626,"text":"熱值都非常的高所以也可能造成我們垃圾焚化爐燒的這個效率沒有那麼好以至於很多的這個垃圾可能就堆置那我想請教就是說剛剛部長有提到可能會逐年就是裸露的這種狀況可能會逐年減少那這個我們是從去年"},{"start":222.487,"end":241.923,"text":"開始關心那部長也真的非常關心也有實際到地方去看好那我們對你有很大的期待然後那確定就是說希望這些裸露的狀況能夠有所改善好因為中部地區其實也有很多這個垃圾山好那可能不定時偶爾就會有這個"},{"start":244.125,"end":262.938,"text":"火災火燒山的這種狀況發生所以如果可以將這個垃圾裸露的這個狀況如果可以解決的話我覺得也可以改善這個垃圾山附近居民的這個生活品質那尤其有很多垃圾山就鄰近著學校"},{"start":264.759,"end":288.42,"text":"這個狀況真的如果可以解決的話也可以一併讓孩子們在上課的時候也不要每天都聞到那個臭味尤其是夏天的時候真的那個味道真的是非常非常的難聞委包委員因為現在大概已經降到74左右了70萬去年年底的時候說到83、84萬噸那現在有在降了那我們預計下半年因為我們陸續的這個整個作業"},{"start":290.542,"end":311.394,"text":"會加快它的速度所以預計下半年應該會更多明年的數字會更好看那我也想請教部長因為我們目前的這個垃圾焚化爐除了燒這個交互垃圾那有一部分也會燒失業廢棄物那這個失業廢棄物他們所收的這個價格可能"},{"start":312.094,"end":335.69,"text":"跟這個非自己轄內的這個廢棄物的話這個價格還要高嘛那我想請教就是說像有一些縣市比如說堆置的這個垃圾他自己真的確實是沒辦法去處理那我剛剛有問部長嘛如果這些這幾座27座的垃圾焚化爐如果純粹來燒"},{"start":337.871,"end":353.286,"text":"我們的這個加護垃圾應該是足夠的如果是這樣子的應該是足夠的那有沒有什麼樣的方式就是說當然如果說各縣市他要去燒這個一般的失業廢棄物來講因為這個收入可能會"},{"start":356.169,"end":377.335,"text":"可能會更好可能會更高那中央這邊除了可能有一些緊急狀況可以做調度的話那其他好像你們也沒辦法去調度其他縣市的焚化爐去做這個燒這個垃圾的這種情形那未來的話有沒有可能就是說我們環境部可以做一個調配"},{"start":378.735,"end":403.82,"text":"好就是說如果你目前27座焚化爐而且就是都已經20年以上了其實我覺得那個效率可能也可能會越來然後可能又會碰到稅休的狀況那是不是有可能未來透過修法或者其他的方式我們環境部也可以去做這樣的一個垃圾的一個調配針對我們的一般的這個家庭的這個廢棄物"},{"start":405.491,"end":429.213,"text":"報告委員第一個是說我們的調度只針對沒有分化如設備處理的縣市會幫忙做調度例如說南投等等那大多數的縣市因為他們自己要這樣燒因為他基本上會採取促餐的方式或BOT的方式能夠獲得民間的裁員所以他才會去燒事業廢棄物這個我們都尊重但是過去的體制就變成這個樣子了"},{"start":430.214,"end":459.814,"text":"那未來呢我也贊同委員的觀點我們未來是希望說不是說我們要興建廢棄物而是說我們希望全循環的流向的這個處理例如說有一個園區它可以從這個源頭到最後末端都可以很好的處理這個希望我們在台灣能夠設幾個地方自己有自己的量能把這個產業扶持起來這個是我們中長期的一個目標所以目前我們大概也跟行政院提出一個相關的計畫所以希望明年可以爭取到預算能夠來做這個事情"},{"start":460.494,"end":481.468,"text":"那部長我們剛剛講那個後端的處理那我們這個源頭減量其實確實也是非常的重要那我看到就是說你們的預算就是這個大部分花了這個十幾億在處理垃圾那這個源頭減量的部分預算跟這個處理垃圾相差二十幾倍"},{"start":482.429,"end":509.681,"text":"那我因為在地方我有看到好多議員在質詢就是說我們資源回收的那個價格其實不是那麼高那我在這邊是不是也有可能就是說環境部這邊針對源頭減量的這個預算是不是也可以逐年增加那我如果可以在源頭減量的話那我是不是就未來這個處理垃圾的這個經費就可以減少嗎"},{"start":512.222,"end":539.603,"text":"好 那垃圾 製造垃圾的這個狀況就會減少嘛所以我不知道說這個環境部針對這部分就是有關這個源頭減量的這個經費是不是未來會有所提升對 包圍這個我們自己的預算這塊源頭減量是我們的重點就這個就是循環經濟那我們會增加不過地方的這個不見得就會增加因為地方有些縣市會重視有些縣市不大重視"},{"start":540.303,"end":559.055,"text":"所以這個地方我們還要因地制宜能夠來鼓勵他們能夠增加這樣的預算那部長我想請教就是說我們這個處於處理其實我發現有一些就是處於處理其實不是那麼的確實"},{"start":561.036,"end":585.141,"text":"那這個也會造成我們焚化爐的那個壽命可能有時候就是會減短那你怎麼樣去針對這個廚餘廚餘的回收或廚餘的處理你們環境部這邊會怎麼跟地方這邊來配合我覺得這應該是一個很重要因為有時候我們會看到如果說這個廚餘沒有他可能就直接丟到垃圾車裡面去了"},{"start":587.215,"end":604.687,"text":"現在我們觀察有兩種方式一個是有些縣市像屏東或台南他們鼓勵補助一些廚藥機整個就處理掉我們也在觀察他們使用的效果如何到底有沒有會造成一些負面的效益另外一個就是我們有開始在研究黑水盲"},{"start":605.367,"end":627.168,"text":"它是不是可以收集出來用黑水盲因為黑水盲未來呢它也有一些SAF航空永續燃料用油這樣的一個處理所以我們現在是希望找到一些好的方式可以找到一些方向我們就接下來就大力的去推所以現在有看了幾種一個方案我已經提到的就是現在台灣遇到的一個問題因為如果是廚藥不好好處理拿去焚化爐燒那這個會影響到焚化爐的這個處理的量能"},{"start":630.692,"end":658.593,"text":"所以我覺得說應該也要盡快因為我們在去年的時候委員會也有去有去考察去看那個黑水盲那確實它真的應該這個效能應該還不錯所以有的公所他們自己本身有在做那其實我覺得好像推廣的不是那麼全面如果說還不錯的話其實我覺得應該要從環境部自己本身來做推動"},{"start":660.195,"end":661.783,"text":"好不好好謝謝我也在建議好好好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":718,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（10時28分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好。部長，在去年你剛上任的時候，當時我也當召委，針對我們垃圾堆置的問題也有排一個專報，當時部長也非常關心，你自己也有到地方去看。我想請教，我們的露天堆置垃圾量是每一年、每一年都一直在增加，我不知道部長從去年這樣看，你有什麼樣的解決方式？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們訂的一個計畫就是明年年底不要露天裸露，大概有48個露天裸露的點，的確附近的居民生活都很困難，那個味道或是蒼蠅非常多，所以我們先解決這個問題。因為我們大概明年焚化爐的量能可以起來了，所以整個會慢慢的平衡下來，我們希望露天裸露解決，然後不要有新的垃圾產生，只要量能平衡，其實這個問題就逐步的可以解決。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。部長剛剛有特別提到全臺灣48座的垃圾山，你是希望明年就沒有這種垃圾露天裸露的狀況？"],["彭部長啓明：裸露的。"],["黃委員秀芳：裸露的狀況，那你要怎麼處理？"],["彭部長啓明：第一個，一定要有一些覆土，第二個是打包，甚至我們要再協調一下處理的量能，要能夠處理得更好，所以目前……"],["黃委員秀芳：請其他縣市幫忙處理嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：有的是其他縣市，有的要自己去解決，像桃園就要儘量自己去解決這個事情，我們基本上跟每個縣市……因為每個縣市的狀況不大一樣，所以基本上我們一個一個去跟他們談，目前大家都同意明年會一起來完成解決這個問題。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我們很期待，因為去年問你是到今年，然後現在變成明年，我們希望能夠逐年把它解決。另外我想請教，如果以目前全臺灣27座垃圾焚化爐來處理家戶垃圾，我想請教部長，如果要處理家戶垃圾，27座焚化爐互相調度的話，你覺得這樣量能夠嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：因為現在的垃圾焚化爐是屬於地方政府在管理，當然理論上量能是夠的，但是它必須要經營，會去燃燒事業廢棄物，也排擠了家庭廢棄物的量能，的確這個是一個過去的問題，但是這個問題是由地方的事務去做處理，例如桃園也燒了很多事業廢棄物，他們裸露的也蠻多的，當然他們說將來應該要解決，可是他們自己都沒辦法解決這個問題，所以基本上我覺得，第一個是整改的速度，未來一、兩年內會陸續地完成，垃圾的問題在未來這幾年應該可以解決。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，所有27座的焚化爐，其中有20座都已經超過20年，所以它燒的效率也許沒有那麼高，我想請教目前我們的垃圾其熱值都非常高，所以可能造成垃圾焚化爐燒的效率沒有那麼好，造成很多垃圾堆置。剛剛部長有提到裸露的這種狀況可能會逐年減少，我們是從去年開始關心這個，部長也真的非常關心，也有實際到地方去看，我們對你有很大的期待，希望這些裸露的狀況能夠有所改善，因為中部地區其實也有很多垃圾山，可能不定時偶爾就會有自焚……"],["彭部長啓明：火災。"],["黃委員秀芳：火燒山的這種狀況發生，如果可以將垃圾裸露的狀況解決，我覺得也可以改善垃圾山附近居民的生活品質，尤其很多垃圾山鄰近學校，這個狀況如果真的可以解決的話，也可以一併讓孩子們在上課的時候不用每天都聞到那個臭味，尤其是夏天的時候，那個味道真的是非常非常的難聞。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，現在大概已經降到70萬噸左右了，去年年底的時候到83、84萬噸，現在有再降了，我們預計下半年會陸續加快整個作業的速度，所以預計下半年應該會更多，等於明年的數字會更好看。"],["黃委員秀芳：我也想請教部長，目前垃圾焚化爐除了燒家戶垃圾外，有一部分也會燒事業廢棄物嘛？這個事業廢棄物他們所收的價格，可能跟非自己轄內的廢棄物相比，價格還要高，我想請教的是，像有一些縣市，譬如說堆置的垃圾它自己確實真的沒辦法去處理，我剛剛有問部長，如果這27座垃圾焚化爐純粹來燒家戶垃圾應該是足夠的，如果是這樣子，應該是足夠的，那有沒有什麼樣的方式……當然如果各縣市要去燒一般的事業廢棄物，因為這個收入可能會更好、可能會更高，中央這邊除了有一些緊急狀況可能可以做調度，好像你們也沒辦法去調度其他縣市的焚化爐去燒垃圾，未來有沒有可能我們環境部可以做一個調配？就是目前27座焚化爐，也都已經20年以上，我覺得那個效率可能會越來差，可能又會碰到歲修的狀況，那未來是不是有可能透過修法或是其他的方式，針對一般的家庭廢棄物，環境部也可以去做垃圾的調配？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一個，我們的調度只針對沒有焚化爐設備處理的縣市，我們會幫忙做調度，例如南投等等，大多數的縣市他們自己要這樣燒，因為它基本上會採取促參的方式或BOT的方式，以獲得民間的財源，所以它才會去燒事業廢棄物，這個我們都尊重，但是過去的體制就變成這個樣子了，至於未來的部分，我也贊同委員的觀點，我們未來是希望，不是說我們要興建焚化爐，而是希望朝向全循環流向的處理，例如說有一個園區，從源頭到最後的末端，它都可以很好的處理，希望我們在臺灣能夠設幾個地方，自己有自己的量能，把這個產業扶植起來，這個是我們中長期的目標，所以目前我們大概也跟行政院提出一個相關的計畫，希望明年可以爭取到預算，能夠來做這個事情。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，部長，我們剛剛講到後端的處理，源頭減量確實也是非常重要，我看到你們的預算大部分花了十幾億在處理垃圾，這個源頭減量的部分，其預算跟處理垃圾的相差二十幾倍，因為我在地方有看到好多議員在質詢，就是資源回收的價格其實不是那麼高，我在這邊是不是也有可能……環境部針對源頭減量的預算是不是也可以逐年增加？如果可以在源頭減量的話，那未來處理垃圾的經費就可以減少，製造垃圾的狀況就會減少，所以我不知道環境部針對這部分，就是有關源頭減量的經費，未來是不是會有所提升？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，關於我們自己的預算，源頭減量這塊是我們的重點，這個就是循環經濟，我們會增加，不過地方不見得就會增加，因為有些地方縣市會重視，有些縣市不大重視，所以這個地方我們還要因地制宜，鼓勵他們能夠增加這樣的預算。"],["黃委員秀芳：是，我想請教部長關於廚餘處理，我發現有一些廚餘處理其實不是那麼的確實。"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：這個也會造成焚化爐的壽命可能有時候會減短，針對廚餘的回收或廚餘的處理，你們環境部會怎麼跟地方來配合？我覺得這個很重要，因為有時候我們會看到這個廚餘可能就直接丟到垃圾車裡面去了。"],["彭部長啓明：對，報告委員，我們現在觀察到有兩種方式，一個是有些縣市像屏東或臺南，他們鼓勵補助一些廚餘機，就整個處理掉，我們也在觀察他們使用的效果是如何、到底有沒有造成一些負面的效益。另外一個，我們有開始在研究黑水虻，看是不是可以蒐集出來，用黑水虻……因為黑水虻未來也有一些SAF（航空永續燃料用油）這樣的處理，所以我們現在希望能找到一些好的方式，可以找到一些方向，接下來就大力的去推，所以現在有看了幾種方案，委員提到的就是現在臺灣遇到的一個問題，因為廚餘如果不好好處理，拿去焚化爐燒，會影響到焚化爐處理的量能。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以我覺得應該也要儘快，因為去年委員會也有去地方考察，去看黑水虻，確實這個效能應該還不錯。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["黃委員秀芳：有的公所他們自己本身有在做，但我覺得推廣的好像不是那麼全面，如果還不錯的話，我覺得應該要從環境部自己本身來做推動，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員的建議。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。我要提醒部長，關於焚化爐的調度權，我們當時有修法給你們環境部做處理。","接下來請蘇召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":446,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-11","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王育敏","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","林淑芬","王正旭","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","徐富癸","陳培瑜","楊曜","盧縣一","蔡易餘","廖偉翔"],"page_start":369,"meetingDate":["2025-05-14"],"gazette_id":"1145001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145001_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、勞動部及教育部就「我國推動綠色轉型政策，相關人才培育發展\n與產業政策規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、勞動部、經濟\n部、農業部及教育部就「全氟及多氟烷基物質(PFAS)管理行動計畫及環境荷爾蒙管理計畫之毒化\n物相關管理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢【專題報告綜合詢答】","agenda_id":"1145001_00015"}}}