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00:00:03,633\n林益錦委員召委質詢之後我們休息十分鐘謝主席請書發部葉次長國科會吳主委請葉次長吳主委備質詢謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:25,273 --> 00:00:43,659\n社長好主委好請看一下頭影片上面這個內容你們應該都很熟悉這分別是書發部及國科會你們在官網上面所列的主管業務那書發部這邊的主要業務包含是推動國家數位發展政策及發展資料的運用維護我國數位資料安全\n\n3\n00:00:44,019 --> 00:01:02,948\n那國科會呢則是國家科學發展支援學術研究搭起學術界與產業界的合作橋樑AI發展經過在大量的資料收集及運用上次長還有主委能不能就你們速發部這個國科會的業務執掌以及你們專業來說明AI基本法處則機關應該在速發部的理由主委您先好了\n\n4\n00:01:08,150 --> 00:01:21,162\n國科會過去這一年來我們協助行政院來草擬AI基本法是因為國科會有非常多的學術界人力對AI非常熟悉我們藉由這樣的專業能力來結合我們的法治單位\n\n5\n00:01:29,769 --> 00:01:53,666\n來訂定草泥這個AI基本法這個過程也跟蘇發部其實是通力合作這個合作的過程我們跟社會各界溝通跟政府各部會來溝通這個過程我們都依照法制訂定的原則來進行到行政院也是一樣這個過程我們充分溝通以後\n\n6\n00:01:55,727 --> 00:02:13,197\n發現說這個基本法未來在實施一定會接觸到我們的人民接觸到我們的產業各個層面行政院設立數位發展部當初的目的就是希望數位發展部能夠統籌我們政府在資料治理方面的政務的推動\n\n7\n00:02:16,338 --> 00:02:22,482\n所以後來在過程當中雖然這個AI基本法並沒有設定一個主政的部會但是將來在解釋法令一定會由數位發展部來負責所以在最後這個階段我們就交棒給數位發展部數位發展部也非常努力在制定相關的作用法有關這個資料治理的部分特別是這部分還有協調經濟部\n\n8\n00:02:46,182 --> 00:03:04,351\n這個制裁局在制定這個有關這個資料授權等等相關的一些議題所以我想這個交棒的工作我們現在進行非常順利那接下來我請謝謝主委那也請葉市長您就您的業務您的職長以及您的專業來說明一下\n\n9\n00:03:07,533 --> 00:03:30,454\n數位發展部成立的目的是為了協助公司部門的數位轉型當然資料治理也是非常重要的一部分AI將來的推動會牽涉到產業跟政府的AI的應用基於這個理由行政院期許我們能夠接下國科會的棒子推動立法以及後續的解釋我們就會遵照行政院的指示來辦理\n\n10\n00:03:31,138 --> 00:03:52,764\n好謝謝次長其實在一般民眾的印象中也會覺得說國科會業務比較在學術的比較在原發以及規劃那數發布這邊的業務比較在執行面所以本席希望說委員應該尊重行政院的專業行政院以各部會的這個業務權責及後續AR基本法通過之後相關的法規修訂政策推動評估後認為應該是有數發布這邊來主責\n\n11\n00:03:56,385 --> 00:04:11,753\n行政院既然有這樣的專業來規則那立法院這邊也不應該強行的來干預好那接下來我想要請教目前世界各國對AI立法有相當大的歧見然後歐盟在去年的7月正式公告AI法案\n\n12\n00:04:12,273 --> 00:04:31,529\n那他是透過風險分級的這個規範AI技術的應用禁止就是敏感特徵生物辨識等等但是美國目前也批評說歐洲這個監管科技的方式覺得說會限制到AI科技的發展並且重新研議AI行動方案那我們目前法案的版本大部分是納入歐洲的風險分級規範但是\n\n13\n00:04:33,891 --> 00:04:44,972\n美國跟台灣在半導體及AI產業是緊密的合作也正在進行關稅的談判那我想請教次長針對AI基本法這個內容事務發布會不會有所調整\n\n14\n00:04:46,107 --> 00:05:10,715\n我們基本上已經在國科院版本已經在行政院做了比較詳盡的審查所以我們大概是完全遵照而且當初討論我們也都參與了那跟委員報告就是說我剛才也提到就是我們在美國跟歐盟這兩大世界的這個立法這個法制之下針對台灣的情形我們採取的方式是訂定基本法意思就是說它一方面它是一個專法但是它是一個原則性的立法\n\n15\n00:05:11,035 --> 00:05:33,306\n它並不會過分的干預各個領域的AI應用跟發展但是又保留了像歐盟所提到的譬如說關於人權的保障關於隱私的保障以及資料的保護跟再利用等等這部分所以是一個比較折衷型的我們目前法案的內容是還是照由之前我們從國科會轉過來的這個版本目前是沒有\n\n16\n00:05:34,066 --> 00:06:02,504\n做更多那國會這邊也沒有建議說因為其實國際的形勢訊息萬變的有沒有建議說在這個部分要做怎樣的調整我跟委員報告我們當初國會這個版本當初除了在國內已經得到所有領域的共識之外在國際上也很多國家都在關注台灣這個立法那我跟委員報告就是說有關我們在折衷\n\n17\n00:06:03,084 --> 00:06:26,715\n我們提出這個風險分類這樣的這個概念希望在各個不同的應用上面去分級這種做法現在其實歐盟也在參考我們的做法美國也在參考我們的做法所以我們這個法案一推出來我相信一定會變成國際上大家關注而且會來學習我們立法的這個標杆所以我是期待\n\n18\n00:06:27,475 --> 00:06:54,213\n期待我們將來這個行政院版本推出來以後我們在立法院能夠得到我們各黨的這個支持因為其實我剛剛有聽次長您的回答就是說我們會採取比較折衷的辦法但所謂折衷的這個折衷的這個辦法這個走向呢會不會想要面面兼顧可是卻又都不到位這個會不會擔心說會有做到這樣子你每個面向都想過啊可是每個面向都沒有辦法就是把它做得很好\n\n19\n00:06:54,753 --> 00:07:24,093\n是,跟我們報告,就正如剛剛主委所講的,我們在風險這個管理的方面,大概是所有AI的法律裡面最重要的重點,那我們所謂的折衷,那它其實是有意義的,就是說一方面我們把風險這個標示出來,它在針對系統的風險,還是國家社會風險,還是個人的風險,那這個標示出來,那同時我們也這個引進一套程序,就是從識別到評估到如何對應,那這個指引可以幫助各個領域根據風險的高低來做不同的判斷,\n\n20\n00:07:24,713 --> 00:07:46,601\n那這樣的折衷並不是沒有取捨的譬如說假設風險很低甚至沒有風險的那應該盡量讓民間自由來做但是如果風險很高的譬如說醫療領域會牽涉到人的生命跟健康那必須要採取比較高監管的方式所以它固然是一個折衷的方式但是它還是根據奉獻我們國際上稱之為RespectManagement\n\n21\n00:07:47,961 --> 00:08:02,118\n就風險高的高監管風險低的低監管大概是這樣的方式來進行然後在各跨部會有一個統一的這樣一個指引框架來協助各部會定出他的成績式的規範大概的方向是這樣跟委員報告\n\n22\n00:08:03,488 --> 00:08:29,046\n其實之前國科會在整個討論的過程之中我也相信各部會都參與也是充分的討論但是剛剛我也提到說其實國際的這個情勢是瞬息萬變的像歐盟的AI法案施行之後CHATGPT及DeepSeek才問世所以這個整個的AI浪潮也使得說歐盟的AI法案有許多覺得是難以全面適用這樣的疑慮\n\n23\n00:08:29,867 --> 00:08:51,377\n所以其實AI的科技發展有很多的未知性那倡促立法也會影響到AI科技的發展所以我這邊還是希望說書法部這邊還是要再繼續的廣納各界的意見如果有新的意見進來要收集我們不希望說AI基本法的這個美意會變成限制台灣AI發展的枷鎖好以上謝謝是謝謝委員謝謝陳秀寶委員質詢官員請回座接下來有請林怡瑾昭偉質詢\n\n24\n00:09:03,751 --> 00:09:04,634\n謝主席有請葉寧次長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n209\t3633\t林益錦委員召委質詢之後我們休息十分鐘謝主席請書發部葉次長國科會吳主委請葉次長吳主委備質詢謝謝\n25273\t43659\t社長好 主委好請看一下頭影片上面這個內容你們應該都很熟悉這分別是書發部及國科會你們在官網上面所列的主管業務那書發部這邊的主要業務包含是推動國家數位發展政策及發展資料的運用維護我國數位資料安全\n44019\t62948\t那國科會呢則是國家科學發展支援學術研究搭起學術界與產業界的合作橋樑AI發展經過在大量的資料收集及運用上次長還有主委能不能就你們速發部這個國科會的業務執掌以及你們專業來說明AI基本法處則機關應該在速發部的理由主委您先好了\n68150\t81162\t國科會過去這一年來我們協助行政院來草擬AI基本法是因為國科會有非常多的學術界人力對AI非常熟悉我們藉由這樣的專業能力來結合我們的法治單位\n89769\t113666\t來訂定草泥這個AI基本法這個過程也跟蘇發部其實是通力合作這個合作的過程我們跟社會各界溝通跟政府各部會來溝通這個過程我們都依照法制訂定的原則來進行到行政院也是一樣這個過程我們充分溝通以後\n115727\t133197\t發現說這個基本法未來在實施一定會接觸到我們的人民接觸到我們的產業各個層面行政院設立數位發展部當初的目的就是希望數位發展部能夠統籌我們政府在資料治理方面的政務的推動\n136338\t142482\t所以後來在過程當中雖然這個AI基本法並沒有設定一個主政的部會但是將來在解釋法令一定會由數位發展部來負責所以在最後這個階段我們就交棒給數位發展部數位發展部也非常努力在制定相關的作用法有關這個資料治理的部分特別是這部分還有協調經濟部\n166182\t184351\t這個制裁局在制定這個有關這個資料授權等等相關的一些議題所以我想這個交棒的工作我們現在進行非常順利那接下來我請謝謝主委那也請葉市長您就您的業務您的職長以及您的專業來說明一下\n187533\t210454\t數位發展部成立的目的是為了協助公司部門的數位轉型當然資料治理也是非常重要的一部分AI將來的推動會牽涉到產業跟政府的AI的應用基於這個理由行政院期許我們能夠接下國科會的棒子推動立法以及後續的解釋我們就會遵照行政院的指示來辦理\n211138\t232764\t好 謝謝次長其實在一般民眾的印象中也會覺得說國科會業務比較在學術的比較在原發以及規劃那數發布這邊的業務比較在執行面所以本席希望說委員應該尊重行政院的專業行政院以各部會的這個業務權責及後續AR基本法通過之後相關的法規修訂政策推動評估後認為應該是有數發布這邊來主責\n236385\t251753\t行政院既然有這樣的專業來規則那立法院這邊也不應該強行的來干預好那接下來我想要請教目前世界各國對AI立法有相當大的歧見然後歐盟在去年的7月正式公告AI法案\n252273\t271529\t那他是透過風險分級的這個規範AI技術的應用禁止就是敏感特徵生物辨識等等但是美國目前也批評說歐洲這個監管科技的方式覺得說會限制到AI科技的發展並且重新研議AI行動方案那我們目前法案的版本大部分是納入歐洲的風險分級規範但是\n273891\t284972\t美國跟台灣在半導體及AI產業是緊密的合作也正在進行關稅的談判那我想請教次長針對AI基本法這個內容事務發布會不會有所調整\n286107\t310715\t我們基本上已經在國科院版本已經在行政院做了比較詳盡的審查所以我們大概是完全遵照而且當初討論我們也都參與了那跟委員報告就是說我剛才也提到就是我們在美國跟歐盟這兩大世界的這個立法這個法制之下針對台灣的情形我們採取的方式是訂定基本法意思就是說它一方面它是一個專法但是它是一個原則性的立法\n311035\t333306\t它並不會過分的干預各個領域的AI應用跟發展但是又保留了像歐盟所提到的譬如說關於人權的保障關於隱私的保障以及資料的保護跟再利用等等這部分所以是一個比較折衷型的我們目前法案的內容是還是照由之前我們從國科會轉過來的這個版本目前是沒有\n334066\t362504\t做更多 那國會這邊也沒有建議說因為其實國際的形勢訊息萬變的有沒有建議說在這個部分要做怎樣的調整我跟委員報告我們當初國會這個版本當初除了在國內已經得到所有領域的共識之外在國際上也很多國家都在關注台灣這個立法那我跟委員報告就是說有關我們在折衷\n363084\t386715\t我們提出這個風險分類這樣的這個概念希望在各個不同的應用上面去分級這種做法現在其實歐盟也在參考我們的做法美國也在參考我們的做法所以我們這個法案一推出來我相信一定會變成國際上大家關注而且會來學習我們立法的這個標杆所以我是期待\n387475\t414213\t期待我們將來這個行政院版本推出來以後我們在立法院能夠得到我們各黨的這個支持因為其實我剛剛有聽次長您的回答就是說我們會採取比較折衷的辦法但所謂折衷的這個折衷的這個辦法這個走向呢會不會想要面面兼顧可是卻又都不到位這個會不會擔心說會有做到這樣子你每個面向都想過啊可是每個面向都沒有辦法就是把它做得很好\n414753\t444093\t是,跟我們報告,就正如剛剛主委所講的,我們在風險這個管理的方面,大概是所有AI的法律裡面最重要的重點,那我們所謂的折衷,那它其實是有意義的,就是說一方面我們把風險這個標示出來,它在針對系統的風險,還是國家社會風險,還是個人的風險,那這個標示出來,那同時我們也這個引進一套程序,就是從識別到評估到如何對應,那這個指引可以幫助各個領域根據風險的高低來做不同的判斷,\n444713\t466601\t那這樣的折衷並不是沒有取捨的譬如說假設風險很低甚至沒有風險的那應該盡量讓民間自由來做但是如果風險很高的譬如說醫療領域會牽涉到人的生命跟健康那必須要採取比較高監管的方式所以它固然是一個折衷的方式但是它還是根據奉獻我們國際上稱之為Respect Management\n467961\t482118\t就風險高的高監管風險低的低監管大概是這樣的方式來進行然後在各跨部會有一個統一的這樣一個指引框架來協助各部會定出他的成績式的規範大概的方向是這樣跟委員報告\n483488\t509046\t其實之前國科會在整個討論的過程之中我也相信各部會都參與也是充分的討論但是剛剛我也提到說其實國際的這個情勢是瞬息萬變的像歐盟的AI法案施行之後CHAT GPT及Deep Seek才問世所以這個整個的AI浪潮也使得說歐盟的AI法案有許多覺得是難以全面適用這樣的疑慮\n509867\t531377\t所以其實AI的科技發展有很多的未知性那倡促立法也會影響到AI科技的發展所以我這邊還是希望說書法部這邊還是要再繼續的廣納各界的意見如果有新的意見進來要收集我們不希望說AI基本法的這個美意會變成限制台灣AI發展的枷鎖好 以上 謝謝是 謝謝委員謝謝陳秀寶委員質詢 官員請回座接下來有請林怡瑾 昭偉 質詢\n543751\t544634\t謝主席 有請葉寧次長\n","txt":"林益錦委員召委質詢之後我們休息十分鐘謝主席請書發部葉次長國科會吳主委請葉次長吳主委備質詢謝謝\n社長好 主委好請看一下頭影片上面這個內容你們應該都很熟悉這分別是書發部及國科會你們在官網上面所列的主管業務那書發部這邊的主要業務包含是推動國家數位發展政策及發展資料的運用維護我國數位資料安全\n那國科會呢則是國家科學發展支援學術研究搭起學術界與產業界的合作橋樑AI發展經過在大量的資料收集及運用上次長還有主委能不能就你們速發部這個國科會的業務執掌以及你們專業來說明AI基本法處則機關應該在速發部的理由主委您先好了\n國科會過去這一年來我們協助行政院來草擬AI基本法是因為國科會有非常多的學術界人力對AI非常熟悉我們藉由這樣的專業能力來結合我們的法治單位\n來訂定草泥這個AI基本法這個過程也跟蘇發部其實是通力合作這個合作的過程我們跟社會各界溝通跟政府各部會來溝通這個過程我們都依照法制訂定的原則來進行到行政院也是一樣這個過程我們充分溝通以後\n發現說這個基本法未來在實施一定會接觸到我們的人民接觸到我們的產業各個層面行政院設立數位發展部當初的目的就是希望數位發展部能夠統籌我們政府在資料治理方面的政務的推動\n所以後來在過程當中雖然這個AI基本法並沒有設定一個主政的部會但是將來在解釋法令一定會由數位發展部來負責所以在最後這個階段我們就交棒給數位發展部數位發展部也非常努力在制定相關的作用法有關這個資料治理的部分特別是這部分還有協調經濟部\n這個制裁局在制定這個有關這個資料授權等等相關的一些議題所以我想這個交棒的工作我們現在進行非常順利那接下來我請謝謝主委那也請葉市長您就您的業務您的職長以及您的專業來說明一下\n數位發展部成立的目的是為了協助公司部門的數位轉型當然資料治理也是非常重要的一部分AI將來的推動會牽涉到產業跟政府的AI的應用基於這個理由行政院期許我們能夠接下國科會的棒子推動立法以及後續的解釋我們就會遵照行政院的指示來辦理\n好 謝謝次長其實在一般民眾的印象中也會覺得說國科會業務比較在學術的比較在原發以及規劃那數發布這邊的業務比較在執行面所以本席希望說委員應該尊重行政院的專業行政院以各部會的這個業務權責及後續AR基本法通過之後相關的法規修訂政策推動評估後認為應該是有數發布這邊來主責\n行政院既然有這樣的專業來規則那立法院這邊也不應該強行的來干預好那接下來我想要請教目前世界各國對AI立法有相當大的歧見然後歐盟在去年的7月正式公告AI法案\n那他是透過風險分級的這個規範AI技術的應用禁止就是敏感特徵生物辨識等等但是美國目前也批評說歐洲這個監管科技的方式覺得說會限制到AI科技的發展並且重新研議AI行動方案那我們目前法案的版本大部分是納入歐洲的風險分級規範但是\n美國跟台灣在半導體及AI產業是緊密的合作也正在進行關稅的談判那我想請教次長針對AI基本法這個內容事務發布會不會有所調整\n我們基本上已經在國科院版本已經在行政院做了比較詳盡的審查所以我們大概是完全遵照而且當初討論我們也都參與了那跟委員報告就是說我剛才也提到就是我們在美國跟歐盟這兩大世界的這個立法這個法制之下針對台灣的情形我們採取的方式是訂定基本法意思就是說它一方面它是一個專法但是它是一個原則性的立法\n它並不會過分的干預各個領域的AI應用跟發展但是又保留了像歐盟所提到的譬如說關於人權的保障關於隱私的保障以及資料的保護跟再利用等等這部分所以是一個比較折衷型的我們目前法案的內容是還是照由之前我們從國科會轉過來的這個版本目前是沒有\n做更多 那國會這邊也沒有建議說因為其實國際的形勢訊息萬變的有沒有建議說在這個部分要做怎樣的調整我跟委員報告我們當初國會這個版本當初除了在國內已經得到所有領域的共識之外在國際上也很多國家都在關注台灣這個立法那我跟委員報告就是說有關我們在折衷\n我們提出這個風險分類這樣的這個概念希望在各個不同的應用上面去分級這種做法現在其實歐盟也在參考我們的做法美國也在參考我們的做法所以我們這個法案一推出來我相信一定會變成國際上大家關注而且會來學習我們立法的這個標杆所以我是期待\n期待我們將來這個行政院版本推出來以後我們在立法院能夠得到我們各黨的這個支持因為其實我剛剛有聽次長您的回答就是說我們會採取比較折衷的辦法但所謂折衷的這個折衷的這個辦法這個走向呢會不會想要面面兼顧可是卻又都不到位這個會不會擔心說會有做到這樣子你每個面向都想過啊可是每個面向都沒有辦法就是把它做得很好\n是,跟我們報告,就正如剛剛主委所講的,我們在風險這個管理的方面,大概是所有AI的法律裡面最重要的重點,那我們所謂的折衷,那它其實是有意義的,就是說一方面我們把風險這個標示出來,它在針對系統的風險,還是國家社會風險,還是個人的風險,那這個標示出來,那同時我們也這個引進一套程序,就是從識別到評估到如何對應,那這個指引可以幫助各個領域根據風險的高低來做不同的判斷,\n那這樣的折衷並不是沒有取捨的譬如說假設風險很低甚至沒有風險的那應該盡量讓民間自由來做但是如果風險很高的譬如說醫療領域會牽涉到人的生命跟健康那必須要採取比較高監管的方式所以它固然是一個折衷的方式但是它還是根據奉獻我們國際上稱之為Respect Management\n就風險高的高監管風險低的低監管大概是這樣的方式來進行然後在各跨部會有一個統一的這樣一個指引框架來協助各部會定出他的成績式的規範大概的方向是這樣跟委員報告\n其實之前國科會在整個討論的過程之中我也相信各部會都參與也是充分的討論但是剛剛我也提到說其實國際的這個情勢是瞬息萬變的像歐盟的AI法案施行之後CHAT GPT及Deep Seek才問世所以這個整個的AI浪潮也使得說歐盟的AI法案有許多覺得是難以全面適用這樣的疑慮\n所以其實AI的科技發展有很多的未知性那倡促立法也會影響到AI科技的發展所以我這邊還是希望說書法部這邊還是要再繼續的廣納各界的意見如果有新的意見進來要收集我們不希望說AI基本法的這個美意會變成限制台灣AI發展的枷鎖好 以上 謝謝是 謝謝委員謝謝陳秀寶委員質詢 官員請回座接下來有請林怡瑾 昭偉 質詢\n謝主席 有請葉寧次長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.209 --> 00:03.633\n林益錦委員召委質詢之後我們休息十分鐘謝主席請書發部葉次長國科會吳主委請葉次長吳主委備質詢謝謝\n\n00:25.273 --> 00:43.659\n社長好主委好請看一下頭影片上面這個內容你們應該都很熟悉這分別是書發部及國科會你們在官網上面所列的主管業務那書發部這邊的主要業務包含是推動國家數位發展政策及發展資料的運用維護我國數位資料安全\n\n00:44.019 --> 01:02.948\n那國科會呢則是國家科學發展支援學術研究搭起學術界與產業界的合作橋樑AI發展經過在大量的資料收集及運用上次長還有主委能不能就你們速發部這個國科會的業務執掌以及你們專業來說明AI基本法處則機關應該在速發部的理由主委您先好了\n\n01:08.150 --> 01:21.162\n國科會過去這一年來我們協助行政院來草擬AI基本法是因為國科會有非常多的學術界人力對AI非常熟悉我們藉由這樣的專業能力來結合我們的法治單位\n\n01:29.769 --> 01:53.666\n來訂定草泥這個AI基本法這個過程也跟蘇發部其實是通力合作這個合作的過程我們跟社會各界溝通跟政府各部會來溝通這個過程我們都依照法制訂定的原則來進行到行政院也是一樣這個過程我們充分溝通以後\n\n01:55.727 --> 02:13.197\n發現說這個基本法未來在實施一定會接觸到我們的人民接觸到我們的產業各個層面行政院設立數位發展部當初的目的就是希望數位發展部能夠統籌我們政府在資料治理方面的政務的推動\n\n02:16.338 --> 02:22.482\n所以後來在過程當中雖然這個AI基本法並沒有設定一個主政的部會但是將來在解釋法令一定會由數位發展部來負責所以在最後這個階段我們就交棒給數位發展部數位發展部也非常努力在制定相關的作用法有關這個資料治理的部分特別是這部分還有協調經濟部\n\n02:46.182 --> 03:04.351\n這個制裁局在制定這個有關這個資料授權等等相關的一些議題所以我想這個交棒的工作我們現在進行非常順利那接下來我請謝謝主委那也請葉市長您就您的業務您的職長以及您的專業來說明一下\n\n03:07.533 --> 03:30.454\n數位發展部成立的目的是為了協助公司部門的數位轉型當然資料治理也是非常重要的一部分AI將來的推動會牽涉到產業跟政府的AI的應用基於這個理由行政院期許我們能夠接下國科會的棒子推動立法以及後續的解釋我們就會遵照行政院的指示來辦理\n\n03:31.138 --> 03:52.764\n好謝謝次長其實在一般民眾的印象中也會覺得說國科會業務比較在學術的比較在原發以及規劃那數發布這邊的業務比較在執行面所以本席希望說委員應該尊重行政院的專業行政院以各部會的這個業務權責及後續AR基本法通過之後相關的法規修訂政策推動評估後認為應該是有數發布這邊來主責\n\n03:56.385 --> 04:11.753\n行政院既然有這樣的專業來規則那立法院這邊也不應該強行的來干預好那接下來我想要請教目前世界各國對AI立法有相當大的歧見然後歐盟在去年的7月正式公告AI法案\n\n04:12.273 --> 04:31.529\n那他是透過風險分級的這個規範AI技術的應用禁止就是敏感特徵生物辨識等等但是美國目前也批評說歐洲這個監管科技的方式覺得說會限制到AI科技的發展並且重新研議AI行動方案那我們目前法案的版本大部分是納入歐洲的風險分級規範但是\n\n04:33.891 --> 04:44.972\n美國跟台灣在半導體及AI產業是緊密的合作也正在進行關稅的談判那我想請教次長針對AI基本法這個內容事務發布會不會有所調整\n\n04:46.107 --> 05:10.715\n我們基本上已經在國科院版本已經在行政院做了比較詳盡的審查所以我們大概是完全遵照而且當初討論我們也都參與了那跟委員報告就是說我剛才也提到就是我們在美國跟歐盟這兩大世界的這個立法這個法制之下針對台灣的情形我們採取的方式是訂定基本法意思就是說它一方面它是一個專法但是它是一個原則性的立法\n\n05:11.035 --> 05:33.306\n它並不會過分的干預各個領域的AI應用跟發展但是又保留了像歐盟所提到的譬如說關於人權的保障關於隱私的保障以及資料的保護跟再利用等等這部分所以是一個比較折衷型的我們目前法案的內容是還是照由之前我們從國科會轉過來的這個版本目前是沒有\n\n05:34.066 --> 06:02.504\n做更多那國會這邊也沒有建議說因為其實國際的形勢訊息萬變的有沒有建議說在這個部分要做怎樣的調整我跟委員報告我們當初國會這個版本當初除了在國內已經得到所有領域的共識之外在國際上也很多國家都在關注台灣這個立法那我跟委員報告就是說有關我們在折衷\n\n06:03.084 --> 06:26.715\n我們提出這個風險分類這樣的這個概念希望在各個不同的應用上面去分級這種做法現在其實歐盟也在參考我們的做法美國也在參考我們的做法所以我們這個法案一推出來我相信一定會變成國際上大家關注而且會來學習我們立法的這個標杆所以我是期待\n\n06:27.475 --> 06:54.213\n期待我們將來這個行政院版本推出來以後我們在立法院能夠得到我們各黨的這個支持因為其實我剛剛有聽次長您的回答就是說我們會採取比較折衷的辦法但所謂折衷的這個折衷的這個辦法這個走向呢會不會想要面面兼顧可是卻又都不到位這個會不會擔心說會有做到這樣子你每個面向都想過啊可是每個面向都沒有辦法就是把它做得很好\n\n06:54.753 --> 07:24.093\n是,跟我們報告,就正如剛剛主委所講的,我們在風險這個管理的方面,大概是所有AI的法律裡面最重要的重點,那我們所謂的折衷,那它其實是有意義的,就是說一方面我們把風險這個標示出來,它在針對系統的風險,還是國家社會風險,還是個人的風險,那這個標示出來,那同時我們也這個引進一套程序,就是從識別到評估到如何對應,那這個指引可以幫助各個領域根據風險的高低來做不同的判斷,\n\n07:24.713 --> 07:46.601\n那這樣的折衷並不是沒有取捨的譬如說假設風險很低甚至沒有風險的那應該盡量讓民間自由來做但是如果風險很高的譬如說醫療領域會牽涉到人的生命跟健康那必須要採取比較高監管的方式所以它固然是一個折衷的方式但是它還是根據奉獻我們國際上稱之為RespectManagement\n\n07:47.961 --> 08:02.118\n就風險高的高監管風險低的低監管大概是這樣的方式來進行然後在各跨部會有一個統一的這樣一個指引框架來協助各部會定出他的成績式的規範大概的方向是這樣跟委員報告\n\n08:03.488 --> 08:29.046\n其實之前國科會在整個討論的過程之中我也相信各部會都參與也是充分的討論但是剛剛我也提到說其實國際的這個情勢是瞬息萬變的像歐盟的AI法案施行之後CHATGPT及DeepSeek才問世所以這個整個的AI浪潮也使得說歐盟的AI法案有許多覺得是難以全面適用這樣的疑慮\n\n08:29.867 --> 08:51.377\n所以其實AI的科技發展有很多的未知性那倡促立法也會影響到AI科技的發展所以我這邊還是希望說書法部這邊還是要再繼續的廣納各界的意見如果有新的意見進來要收集我們不希望說AI基本法的這個美意會變成限制台灣AI發展的枷鎖好以上謝謝是謝謝委員謝謝陳秀寶委員質詢官員請回座接下來有請林怡瑾昭偉質詢\n\n09:03.751 --> 09:04.634\n謝主席有請葉寧次長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.209,"end":3.633,"text":"林益錦委員召委質詢之後我們休息十分鐘謝主席請書發部葉次長國科會吳主委請葉次長吳主委備質詢謝謝"},{"start":25.273,"end":43.659,"text":"社長好 主委好請看一下頭影片上面這個內容你們應該都很熟悉這分別是書發部及國科會你們在官網上面所列的主管業務那書發部這邊的主要業務包含是推動國家數位發展政策及發展資料的運用維護我國數位資料安全"},{"start":44.019,"end":62.948,"text":"那國科會呢則是國家科學發展支援學術研究搭起學術界與產業界的合作橋樑AI發展經過在大量的資料收集及運用上次長還有主委能不能就你們速發部這個國科會的業務執掌以及你們專業來說明AI基本法處則機關應該在速發部的理由主委您先好了"},{"start":68.15,"end":81.162,"text":"國科會過去這一年來我們協助行政院來草擬AI基本法是因為國科會有非常多的學術界人力對AI非常熟悉我們藉由這樣的專業能力來結合我們的法治單位"},{"start":89.769,"end":113.666,"text":"來訂定草泥這個AI基本法這個過程也跟蘇發部其實是通力合作這個合作的過程我們跟社會各界溝通跟政府各部會來溝通這個過程我們都依照法制訂定的原則來進行到行政院也是一樣這個過程我們充分溝通以後"},{"start":115.727,"end":133.197,"text":"發現說這個基本法未來在實施一定會接觸到我們的人民接觸到我們的產業各個層面行政院設立數位發展部當初的目的就是希望數位發展部能夠統籌我們政府在資料治理方面的政務的推動"},{"start":136.338,"end":142.482,"text":"所以後來在過程當中雖然這個AI基本法並沒有設定一個主政的部會但是將來在解釋法令一定會由數位發展部來負責所以在最後這個階段我們就交棒給數位發展部數位發展部也非常努力在制定相關的作用法有關這個資料治理的部分特別是這部分還有協調經濟部"},{"start":166.182,"end":184.351,"text":"這個制裁局在制定這個有關這個資料授權等等相關的一些議題所以我想這個交棒的工作我們現在進行非常順利那接下來我請謝謝主委那也請葉市長您就您的業務您的職長以及您的專業來說明一下"},{"start":187.533,"end":210.454,"text":"數位發展部成立的目的是為了協助公司部門的數位轉型當然資料治理也是非常重要的一部分AI將來的推動會牽涉到產業跟政府的AI的應用基於這個理由行政院期許我們能夠接下國科會的棒子推動立法以及後續的解釋我們就會遵照行政院的指示來辦理"},{"start":211.138,"end":232.764,"text":"好 謝謝次長其實在一般民眾的印象中也會覺得說國科會業務比較在學術的比較在原發以及規劃那數發布這邊的業務比較在執行面所以本席希望說委員應該尊重行政院的專業行政院以各部會的這個業務權責及後續AR基本法通過之後相關的法規修訂政策推動評估後認為應該是有數發布這邊來主責"},{"start":236.385,"end":251.753,"text":"行政院既然有這樣的專業來規則那立法院這邊也不應該強行的來干預好那接下來我想要請教目前世界各國對AI立法有相當大的歧見然後歐盟在去年的7月正式公告AI法案"},{"start":252.273,"end":271.529,"text":"那他是透過風險分級的這個規範AI技術的應用禁止就是敏感特徵生物辨識等等但是美國目前也批評說歐洲這個監管科技的方式覺得說會限制到AI科技的發展並且重新研議AI行動方案那我們目前法案的版本大部分是納入歐洲的風險分級規範但是"},{"start":273.891,"end":284.972,"text":"美國跟台灣在半導體及AI產業是緊密的合作也正在進行關稅的談判那我想請教次長針對AI基本法這個內容事務發布會不會有所調整"},{"start":286.107,"end":310.715,"text":"我們基本上已經在國科院版本已經在行政院做了比較詳盡的審查所以我們大概是完全遵照而且當初討論我們也都參與了那跟委員報告就是說我剛才也提到就是我們在美國跟歐盟這兩大世界的這個立法這個法制之下針對台灣的情形我們採取的方式是訂定基本法意思就是說它一方面它是一個專法但是它是一個原則性的立法"},{"start":311.035,"end":333.306,"text":"它並不會過分的干預各個領域的AI應用跟發展但是又保留了像歐盟所提到的譬如說關於人權的保障關於隱私的保障以及資料的保護跟再利用等等這部分所以是一個比較折衷型的我們目前法案的內容是還是照由之前我們從國科會轉過來的這個版本目前是沒有"},{"start":334.066,"end":362.504,"text":"做更多 那國會這邊也沒有建議說因為其實國際的形勢訊息萬變的有沒有建議說在這個部分要做怎樣的調整我跟委員報告我們當初國會這個版本當初除了在國內已經得到所有領域的共識之外在國際上也很多國家都在關注台灣這個立法那我跟委員報告就是說有關我們在折衷"},{"start":363.084,"end":386.715,"text":"我們提出這個風險分類這樣的這個概念希望在各個不同的應用上面去分級這種做法現在其實歐盟也在參考我們的做法美國也在參考我們的做法所以我們這個法案一推出來我相信一定會變成國際上大家關注而且會來學習我們立法的這個標杆所以我是期待"},{"start":387.475,"end":414.213,"text":"期待我們將來這個行政院版本推出來以後我們在立法院能夠得到我們各黨的這個支持因為其實我剛剛有聽次長您的回答就是說我們會採取比較折衷的辦法但所謂折衷的這個折衷的這個辦法這個走向呢會不會想要面面兼顧可是卻又都不到位這個會不會擔心說會有做到這樣子你每個面向都想過啊可是每個面向都沒有辦法就是把它做得很好"},{"start":414.753,"end":444.093,"text":"是,跟我們報告,就正如剛剛主委所講的,我們在風險這個管理的方面,大概是所有AI的法律裡面最重要的重點,那我們所謂的折衷,那它其實是有意義的,就是說一方面我們把風險這個標示出來,它在針對系統的風險,還是國家社會風險,還是個人的風險,那這個標示出來,那同時我們也這個引進一套程序,就是從識別到評估到如何對應,那這個指引可以幫助各個領域根據風險的高低來做不同的判斷,"},{"start":444.713,"end":466.601,"text":"那這樣的折衷並不是沒有取捨的譬如說假設風險很低甚至沒有風險的那應該盡量讓民間自由來做但是如果風險很高的譬如說醫療領域會牽涉到人的生命跟健康那必須要採取比較高監管的方式所以它固然是一個折衷的方式但是它還是根據奉獻我們國際上稱之為Respect Management"},{"start":467.961,"end":482.118,"text":"就風險高的高監管風險低的低監管大概是這樣的方式來進行然後在各跨部會有一個統一的這樣一個指引框架來協助各部會定出他的成績式的規範大概的方向是這樣跟委員報告"},{"start":483.488,"end":509.046,"text":"其實之前國科會在整個討論的過程之中我也相信各部會都參與也是充分的討論但是剛剛我也提到說其實國際的這個情勢是瞬息萬變的像歐盟的AI法案施行之後CHAT GPT及Deep Seek才問世所以這個整個的AI浪潮也使得說歐盟的AI法案有許多覺得是難以全面適用這樣的疑慮"},{"start":509.867,"end":531.377,"text":"所以其實AI的科技發展有很多的未知性那倡促立法也會影響到AI科技的發展所以我這邊還是希望說書法部這邊還是要再繼續的廣納各界的意見如果有新的意見進來要收集我們不希望說AI基本法的這個美意會變成限制台灣AI發展的枷鎖好 以上 謝謝是 謝謝委員謝謝陳秀寶委員質詢 官員請回座接下來有請林怡瑾 昭偉 質詢"},{"start":543.751,"end":544.634,"text":"謝主席 有請葉寧次長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":371,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（10時41分）謝謝主席，請數發部葉次長、國科會吳主委。"],["主席：請葉次長、吳主委備詢，謝謝。"],["陳委員秀寳：次長好、主委好。請看一下投影片上面的內容，你們應該都很熟悉，這分別是數發部及國科會在官網上面所列的主管業務，數發部的主要業務是推動國家數位發展政策及發展資料運用，維護我國數位資料安全；國科會則是國家科學發展、支援學術研究，搭起學術界與產業界的合作橋梁。AI發展建構在大量的資料蒐集及運用上，次長及主委能不能就數發部與國科會的業務職掌以及你們的專業來說明AI基本法主責機關應該在數發部的理由？主委，您先好了。"],["吳主任委員誠文：過去這一年來，國科會協助行政院草擬AI基本法，是因為國科會有非常多的學術界人力，對AI非常熟悉，我們藉由這樣的專業能力結合法制單位來草擬AI基本法，這個過程其實也跟數發部通力合作，在合作的過程中，我們跟社會各界溝通、跟政府各部會溝通，這個過程我們都依照法制所訂定的原則來進行，到行政院也是一樣。在我們充分溝通以後，發現基本法未來在實施一定會接觸到人民、接觸到產業各個層面，行政院當初設立數位發展部的目的就是希望數位發展部能夠統籌政府在資料治理方面的政務推動。在後續的過程當中，雖然AI基本法並沒有設定一個主政的部會，但是將來解釋法令一定會由數位發展部負責，因此在最後這個階段，我們就交棒給數位發展部，數位發展部也非常努力在制定相關的作用法，特別在資料治理的部分，以及協調經濟部智財局制定有關資料授權等的相關議題，我認為交棒的工作我們現在進行得非常順利，接下來我請葉次長說明。"],["陳委員秀寳：謝謝主委，也請葉次長就您的業務職掌及專業來說明一下。"],["葉次長寧：數位發展部成立的目的是為了協助公私部門的數位轉型，當然資料治理也是非常重要的一個部分。AI將來的推動會牽涉到產業跟政府的AI應用，基於這個理由，行政院期許我們能夠接下國科會的棒子，推動立法及後續的解釋，我們會遵照行政院的指示來辦理。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，謝謝次長。其實在一般民眾的印象中，也會覺得國科會的業務比較在學術、研發及規劃，而數發部的業務比較在執行面，所以本席希望各委員應該要尊重行政院的專業，其實行政院以各部會的業務權責及後續AI基本法通過之後相關的法規修訂、政策推動評估，認為應該是由數發部主責，行政院既然有這樣的專業來歸責，立法院也不應該強行干預。","接下來我想請教，目前世界各國對AI立法有相當大的歧見，歐盟在去年7月正式公告AI法案，透過風險分級規範AI技術的應用，禁止敏感特徵生物識別等AI應用，但是美國目前也批評說，覺得歐洲監管科技的方式會限制到AI科技的發展，並且重新研議AI行動方案。我們目前法案的版本大部分是納入歐洲的風險分級規範，但是美國跟臺灣在半導體及AI產業是緊密合作的，也正在進行關稅談判。我想請教次長，針對AI基本法的內容，數發部會不會有所調整？"],["葉次長寧：基本上，國科會的版本已經在行政院做了比較詳盡的審查，所以我們大概是完全遵照，而且當初討論時我們也都有參與。跟委員報告，我剛才也有提到，在美國跟歐盟這兩大世界的法制之下，針對臺灣的情形，我們採取的方式是訂定基本法，意思就是它一方面是一個專法，但它是一個原則性的立法，並不會過分干預各個領域的AI應用跟發展，但又保留了歐盟所提到的，譬如關於人權的保障、隱私的保障，以及資料保護與再利用等等部分……"],["陳委員秀寳：所以目前的……"],["葉次長寧：所以是一個比較折衷型的立法。"],["陳委員秀寳：我們目前法案的內容還是照之前從國科會轉過來的版本？目前是沒有做更動？"],["葉次長寧：大部分的條文……"],["陳委員秀寳：因為國際的情勢是瞬息萬變，國科會有沒有建議這個部分要做怎樣的調整？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我跟委員報告，國科會這個版本，當初除了在國內已經得到所有領域的共識之外，在國際上很多國家都在關注臺灣的立法。有關折衷部分，我們提出風險分類的概念，希望在各個不同的應用上面去分級，現在其實歐盟也在參考我們的作法、美國也在參考我們的作法，所以我們這個法案一推出來，我相信一定會受到國際上的關注，而且會來學習我們立法的標竿，所以我期待將來行政院版本推出以後，在立法院能夠得到各黨的支持。"],["陳委員秀寳：我剛剛有聽次長的回答，就是我們會採取比較折衷的辦法，但折衷辦法的走向會不會想要面面兼顧，可是卻又都不到位？會不會擔心有這樣子的情況？就是每個面向都想顧，可是每個面向都沒有辦法做得很好。"],["葉次長寧：跟委員報告，誠如剛才主委所講的，風險管理方面大概是所有AI的法律裡面最重要的重點，我們所謂的折衷其實是有意義的，一方面我們把風險標示出來，它是針對系統風險還是國家社會風險還是個人風險，把這個標示出來。同時我們也引進一套程序，從識別到評估到如何對應，這個指引可以幫助各個領域根據風險高低來做不同的判斷，這樣的折衷並不是沒有取捨的，假設風險很低，甚至沒有風險的，就應該儘量讓民間自由來做；但如果是風險很高的，譬如醫療領域，會牽涉到人的生命跟健康，就必須採取比較高監管的方式。它固然是一個折衷的方式，但還是會根據風險，國際上稱之為risk-based  management，就是風險高的高監管、風險低的低監管，大概是以這樣的方式來進行，之後跨部會有一個統一的指引框架來協助各部會訂出其層級式的規範，大概的方向是這樣。"],["陳委員秀寳：之前國科會在整個討論的過程之中，我相信各部會都有參與，也充分討論，但是剛剛我有提到，其實國際的情勢是瞬息萬變的，像在歐盟的AI法案施行之後，ChatGPT及DeepSeek才問世，所以這整個AI浪潮，也使得歐盟的AI法案有許多人覺得有難以全面適用的疑慮，其實AI的科技發展有很多的未知性，倉促立法也會影響到AI科技的發展，我還是希望數發部要繼續廣納各界的意見，如果有新的意見進來要予以蒐集，我們不希望AI基本法的美意變成是限制臺灣AI發展的枷鎖。以上，謝謝。"],["葉次長寧：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳秀寳委員質詢，官員請回座。","接下來有請林宜瑾召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-22,23-1","speakers":["葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳宗憲","張嘉郡","洪孟楷","柯志恩","李昆澤","林俊憲","陳素月","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","葉元之","蔡其昌","劉書彬","萬美玲","張雅琳","郭昱晴","何欣純","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","游顥","徐富癸","吳沛憶","謝龍介","楊瓊瓔","范雲","林沛祥","邱若華","廖先翔","許宇甄","邱志偉"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-05-14"],"gazette_id":"1144802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144802_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員葛如鈞等37人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；二、審查委員邱若華等 17 人擬具\n「人工智慧基本法草案」案；三、審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；四、\n審查委員萬美玲等18人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；五、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「人工\n智慧基本法草案」案；六、審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；七、審查委\n員林倩綺等23人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案 （僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1144802_00004"}}}