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\"大\", \"start\": 506.09, \"end\": 506.23, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 506.23, \"end\": 506.47, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 506.47, \"end\": 506.571, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 506.571, \"end\": 506.871, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 506.871, \"end\": 507.051, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 507.051, \"end\": 507.071, \"score\": 0.954}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:18,942\n很清楚知道說AI基本法是要由速發部來主導推動立法那本席比較相對有疑惑是說在原版的草案還沒有出來的狀況之下這不攸關我們的AI發展根本大法的法律\n\n2\n00:00:19,822 --> 00:00:47,535\n是可以由這個立委們在條文中來指定主管機關的部會嗎或者是說現有的委員的草案中有額外來規劃行政院應設置的單位或指定各級機關應進行編列預算等等這個會不會跟行政院現在的規劃有一些相反格的地方是不是請主委先回答\n\n3\n00:00:49,608 --> 00:00:51,316\n昨天早上已經指示我們\n\n4\n00:00:53,842 --> 00:01:20,421\n這個AI基本法我們制定的時候並沒有列這個主則的部會是但是左院長已經指示說未來未來AI基本法如果通過施行的時候解釋法令的機關會是速發部是那相關的這個主政跟這個資料治理跟這個AI基本法的AI的這個應用推動包含民間產業等等速發部會是最重要的一個部會但是\n\n5\n00:01:21,201 --> 00:01:35,512\n整個行政院所有的部會在施政過程當中一定都會使用到AI的工具包含國會的AI的研發的工作也都有關所以其實是整個行政院會一起去推動的那次長像我剛剛提問的就是說\n\n6\n00:01:37,677 --> 00:02:04,784\n委員的草案中有額外規劃的一些行政院的一設置的單位或者是說要指定各級單位要編列預算等等那這部分跟行政院的規劃是不是有一些衝突我們行政院跟委員報告就是說剛才也有聞提到在過去大院通過大概11個基本法那絕大多數都沒有所謂的主管機關那基本法原則上是一個原則性的規定是根據主委所講的那他不會特別對組織這個做規範\n\n7\n00:02:07,084 --> 00:02:30,843\n相同的一樣那裁員的部分那大概也必須不會在基本法內會有一些希望能夠優惠的措施但這些都必須要在譬如租稅就一定要到稅法才能夠落實那這個我們在基本法大概都會只說原則性的規範是會有組織方面的明確規範但是院裡面當然交付我們這個責任我們來推動這個立法跟解釋法律那我們就一定會這個遵照來執行了解\n\n8\n00:02:32,364 --> 00:02:50,217\n所以很清楚我們的AI政策確實跨足各部會那根據上一次公聽會各方專家學者的發言許多人都有提到資料開放的重要性那這是一個策略上的規劃跟推動那本席認為可能需要有主政的速發部來加以重視\n\n9\n00:02:51,118 --> 00:03:10,868\n那依據這個OECD的分類資料開放可分成四個層級那從封閉資料到差別化存取到非差別化的存取到開放資料那各國的規範也程度不一像歐盟他就強調資料的治理跟隱私雖然推動開放資料可是他對於這個\n\n10\n00:03:12,650 --> 00:03:16,856\n各自有非常嚴格的規範亞洲國家像新加坡韓國它是以促進AI產業發展為導向結合資料開放跟創新的政策因此它法規的限制也相對鬆綁\n\n11\n00:03:28,152 --> 00:03:47,349\n那本席是認為在開放資料的這個概念下我們資料本地化與主權對台灣而言就變得相對的重要那尤其主委也常常提到主權AI這個概念那本商的質詢也有回應說資料儘量要放在國內以維繫我們國家的數位主權\n\n12\n00:03:49,471 --> 00:03:53,836\n那在不妨礙企業創新的精神下這個法規的設計又應兼顧開放跟保護那所以要請教次長是說那我國開放資料的政策未來會用什麼樣的模式跟架構去設計那我們要如何回應上一次公聽會當中很多專家學者都有強調的開源的這個概念就是opensource這個概念\n\n13\n00:04:12,985 --> 00:04:28,260\n謝謝委員的指教委員說得非常好我們也在參考OECD它有四個分類從最封閉的CloseData到最開放的OpenData我們過去其實OpenData推得很不錯OpenData的意思是它完全不需要授權可是在AI發展的時代光是OpenData是不夠的\n\n14\n00:04:28,860 --> 00:04:53,713\n他需要能夠有sharedata就是有些這個資料要能夠共享甚至datareuse他有些資料能夠再利用那所以本部現在正在研擬一個資料創新利用的這個草案那希望能夠建立從這個opendata一直到sharedata到datareuse的整個機制那也不光是政府部門現在這樣做那我們也能夠希望能夠參考這個歐盟也好或美國也好的機制能夠讓產業之間也有一個這個\n\n15\n00:04:56,574 --> 00:05:19,401\n資料交換或匯流的機制那這個部分我們會持續的推動立法同時我們也同時在跟這個政府爭取計劃我們希望透過計劃把相關的技術都能夠建立起來另外委員非常強調的這個主權的AI部分它最重要的是需要有一個符合台灣文化與人文化價值的資料庫那這個我們也在積極建立當中\n\n16\n00:05:19,921 --> 00:05:37,094\nOK那接下來想要跟次長請教說AI基本法需要很多的配套然後執法或相關的法律訂定就如同您剛所說的那像前面提到的資料開放利用跟促進資料創新應用那我覺得還有很多很多迫切的相關法規都需要來通盤檢視喔\n\n17\n00:05:38,455 --> 00:06:00,109\n譬如說政府應用我們要怎麼樣規範政府的部門來負責的應用AI或者民生相關AI的應用像是先進的醫療技術又或者是打詐阻詐這種方方面面那法規是否有相應對的調適所以請教次長最優先會調適的法規有哪幾大類那時程上會大概怎麼安排\n\n18\n00:06:00,919 --> 00:06:20,278\n我們大概會有以速發部的職責來講我們當然就是風險的控制大概是一個非常重要的因素那我們除了會這個盡速的來訂定這個AI的這個人工智慧的風險框架之外我們會特別著重在可能會發生高風險的這個領域能夠跟他們跟這個相關的部會能夠合作\n\n19\n00:06:21,339 --> 00:06:36,657\n儘快把法規能夠進行調制大概不外乎幾個部分智慧醫療智慧金融智慧交通以及通常會相關的跟媒體有關的AI的應用大概是我們會特別重視的重點那我們會跟儘快的跟這些部會來展開協商\n\n20\n00:06:38,419 --> 00:06:52,535\n好那最後想跟您談談就是中國在數位極權主義的擴張之下那台灣要如何應對的問題那我有在去年預算審查的時候我有請教過吳主委\n\n21\n00:06:53,336 --> 00:07:09,323\n是否我們能針對中國的AI假訊息的攻擊有更多的提防進一步來研究如何用AI抵抗AI那國科會當時的回覆是說目前有研發這個數位訊息威脅情資共享框架\n\n22\n00:07:10,183 --> 00:07:30,567\n的這個核心技術或者是怎麼多來源訊息傳播分析器預警的機制以及利用AI跟深度學習等先進技術檢測跟識別AI的內容所以我要請教這個次長的是說那目前我國利用AI技術抵抗中國數位極權主義有什麼進一步的願景嗎那有沒有什麼有沒有可能在資安上透過跨國界的聯防去抵禦這中國的數位領域的侵略\n\n23\n00:07:39,983 --> 00:07:55,668\n首先在資安的方面的國際聯防是我們一直在做的那也會持續在推動那當然是結合跟我們裡面相近的國家因為資安其實是無國界的那這個我們會持續來進行國際的合作那委員所提到的以AI的技術來對抗AI那本部所這個\n\n24\n00:07:57,008 --> 00:08:20,127\n底下有一個重要的技術單位跟智庫叫做資安院那它其實在積極研發相關技術我們有一個非常重要的計畫就是以AI的方式來研究抵禦的方式大概希望能夠識別這個訊息的危險的來源以及能夠找出最常見的惡意城市那提供不光是速發部而已而是所有的部會甚至公司部門能夠有在情思分享的架構之下能夠知道這個\n\n25\n00:08:21,008 --> 00:08:27,071\n威脅的所在以及可能造成的風險那進一步來維護大家的職通訊安全\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t18942\t很清楚知道說AI基本法是要由速發部來主導推動立法那本席比較相對有疑惑是說在原版的草案還沒有出來的狀況之下這不攸關我們的AI發展根本大法的法律\n19822\t47535\t是可以由這個立委們在條文中來指定主管機關的部會嗎或者是說現有的委員的草案中有額外來規劃行政院應設置的單位或指定各級機關應進行編列預算等等這個會不會跟行政院現在的規劃有一些相反格的地方是不是請主委先回答\n49608\t51316\t昨天早上已經指示我們\n53842\t80421\t這個AI基本法我們制定的時候並沒有列這個主則的部會是但是左院長已經指示說未來未來AI基本法如果通過施行的時候解釋法令的機關會是速發部是那相關的這個主政跟這個資料治理跟這個AI基本法的AI的這個應用推動包含民間產業等等速發部會是最重要的一個部會但是\n81201\t95512\t整個行政院所有的部會在施政過程當中一定都會使用到AI的工具包含國會的AI的研發的工作也都有關所以其實是整個行政院會一起去推動的那次長像我剛剛提問的就是說\n97677\t124784\t委員的草案中有額外規劃的一些行政院的一設置的單位或者是說要指定各級單位要編列預算等等那這部分跟行政院的規劃是不是有一些衝突我們行政院跟委員報告就是說剛才也有聞提到在過去大院通過大概11個基本法那絕大多數都沒有所謂的主管機關那基本法原則上是一個原則性的規定是根據主委所講的那他不會特別對組織這個做規範\n127084\t150843\t相同的一樣那裁員的部分那大概也必須不會在基本法內會有一些希望能夠優惠的措施但這些都必須要在譬如租稅就一定要到稅法才能夠落實那這個我們在基本法大概都會只說原則性的規範是會有組織方面的明確規範但是院裡面當然交付我們這個責任我們來推動這個立法跟解釋法律那我們就一定會這個遵照來執行了解\n152364\t170217\t所以很清楚我們的AI政策確實跨足各部會那根據上一次公聽會各方專家學者的發言許多人都有提到資料開放的重要性那這是一個策略上的規劃跟推動那本席認為可能需要有主政的速發部來加以重視\n171118\t190868\t那依據這個OECD的分類資料開放可分成四個層級那從封閉資料到差別化存取到非差別化的存取到開放資料那各國的規範也程度不一像歐盟他就強調資料的治理跟隱私雖然推動開放資料可是他對於這個\n192650\t196856\t各自有非常嚴格的規範亞洲國家像新加坡 韓國它是以促進AI產業發展為導向結合資料開放跟創新的政策因此它法規的限制也相對鬆綁\n208152\t227349\t那本席是認為在開放資料的這個概念下我們資料本地化與主權對台灣而言就變得相對的重要那尤其主委也常常提到主權AI這個概念那本商的質詢也有回應說資料儘量要放在國內以維繫我們國家的數位主權\n229471\t233836\t那在不妨礙企業創新的精神下這個法規的設計又應兼顧開放跟保護那所以要請教次長是說那我國開放資料的政策未來會用什麼樣的模式跟架構去設計那我們要如何回應上一次公聽會當中很多專家學者都有強調的開源的這個概念就是open source這個概念\n252985\t268260\t謝謝委員的指教委員說得非常好我們也在參考OECD它有四個分類從最封閉的Close Data到最開放的Open Data我們過去其實Open Data推得很不錯Open Data的意思是它完全不需要授權可是在AI發展的時代光是Open Data是不夠的\n268860\t293713\t他需要能夠有share data就是有些這個資料要能夠共享甚至data reuse他有些資料能夠再利用那所以本部現在正在研擬一個資料創新利用的這個草案那希望能夠建立從這個open data一直到share data到data reuse的整個機制那也不光是政府部門現在這樣做那我們也能夠希望能夠參考這個歐盟也好或美國也好的機制能夠讓產業之間也有一個這個\n296574\t319401\t資料交換或匯流的機制那這個部分我們會持續的推動立法同時我們也同時在跟這個政府爭取計劃我們希望透過計劃把相關的技術都能夠建立起來另外委員非常強調的這個主權的AI部分它最重要的是需要有一個符合台灣文化與人文化價值的資料庫那這個我們也在積極建立當中\n319921\t337094\tOK那接下來想要跟次長請教說AI基本法需要很多的配套然後執法或相關的法律訂定就如同您剛所說的那像前面提到的資料開放利用跟促進資料創新應用那我覺得還有很多很多迫切的相關法規都需要來通盤檢視喔\n338455\t360109\t譬如說政府應用我們要怎麼樣規範政府的部門來負責的應用AI或者民生相關AI的應用像是先進的醫療技術又或者是打詐阻詐這種方方面面那法規是否有相應對的調適所以請教次長最優先會調適的法規有哪幾大類那時程上會大概怎麼安排\n360919\t380278\t我們大概會有以速發部的職責來講我們當然就是風險的控制大概是一個非常重要的因素那我們除了會這個盡速的來訂定這個AI的這個人工智慧的風險框架之外我們會特別著重在可能會發生高風險的這個領域能夠跟他們跟這個相關的部會能夠合作\n381339\t396657\t儘快把法規能夠進行調制大概不外乎幾個部分智慧醫療智慧金融智慧交通以及通常會相關的跟媒體有關的AI的應用大概是我們會特別重視的重點那我們會跟儘快的跟這些部會來展開協商\n398419\t412535\t好 那最後想跟您談談就是中國在數位極權主義的擴張之下那台灣要如何應對的問題那我有在去年預算審查的時候我有請教過吳主委\n413336\t429323\t是否我們能針對中國的AI假訊息的攻擊有更多的提防進一步來研究如何用AI抵抗AI那國科會當時的回覆是說目前有研發這個數位訊息威脅情資共享框架\n430183\t450567\t的這個核心技術或者是怎麼多來源訊息傳播分析器預警的機制以及利用AI跟深度學習等先進技術檢測跟識別AI的內容所以我要請教這個次長的是說那目前我國利用AI技術抵抗中國數位極權主義有什麼進一步的願景嗎那有沒有什麼有沒有可能在資安上透過跨國界的聯防去抵禦這中國的數位領域的侵略\n459983\t475668\t首先在資安的方面的國際聯防是我們一直在做的那也會持續在推動那當然是結合跟我們裡面相近的國家因為資安其實是無國界的那這個我們會持續來進行國際的合作那委員所提到的以AI的技術來對抗AI那本部所這個\n477008\t500127\t底下有一個重要的技術單位跟智庫叫做資安院那它其實在積極研發相關技術我們有一個非常重要的計畫就是以AI的方式來研究抵禦的方式大概希望能夠識別這個訊息的危險的來源以及能夠找出最常見的惡意城市那提供不光是速發部而已而是所有的部會甚至公司部門能夠有在情思分享的架構之下能夠知道這個\n501008\t507071\t威脅的所在以及可能造成的風險那進一步來維護大家的職通訊安全\n","txt":"很清楚知道說AI基本法是要由速發部來主導推動立法那本席比較相對有疑惑是說在原版的草案還沒有出來的狀況之下這不攸關我們的AI發展根本大法的法律\n是可以由這個立委們在條文中來指定主管機關的部會嗎或者是說現有的委員的草案中有額外來規劃行政院應設置的單位或指定各級機關應進行編列預算等等這個會不會跟行政院現在的規劃有一些相反格的地方是不是請主委先回答\n昨天早上已經指示我們\n這個AI基本法我們制定的時候並沒有列這個主則的部會是但是左院長已經指示說未來未來AI基本法如果通過施行的時候解釋法令的機關會是速發部是那相關的這個主政跟這個資料治理跟這個AI基本法的AI的這個應用推動包含民間產業等等速發部會是最重要的一個部會但是\n整個行政院所有的部會在施政過程當中一定都會使用到AI的工具包含國會的AI的研發的工作也都有關所以其實是整個行政院會一起去推動的那次長像我剛剛提問的就是說\n委員的草案中有額外規劃的一些行政院的一設置的單位或者是說要指定各級單位要編列預算等等那這部分跟行政院的規劃是不是有一些衝突我們行政院跟委員報告就是說剛才也有聞提到在過去大院通過大概11個基本法那絕大多數都沒有所謂的主管機關那基本法原則上是一個原則性的規定是根據主委所講的那他不會特別對組織這個做規範\n相同的一樣那裁員的部分那大概也必須不會在基本法內會有一些希望能夠優惠的措施但這些都必須要在譬如租稅就一定要到稅法才能夠落實那這個我們在基本法大概都會只說原則性的規範是會有組織方面的明確規範但是院裡面當然交付我們這個責任我們來推動這個立法跟解釋法律那我們就一定會這個遵照來執行了解\n所以很清楚我們的AI政策確實跨足各部會那根據上一次公聽會各方專家學者的發言許多人都有提到資料開放的重要性那這是一個策略上的規劃跟推動那本席認為可能需要有主政的速發部來加以重視\n那依據這個OECD的分類資料開放可分成四個層級那從封閉資料到差別化存取到非差別化的存取到開放資料那各國的規範也程度不一像歐盟他就強調資料的治理跟隱私雖然推動開放資料可是他對於這個\n各自有非常嚴格的規範亞洲國家像新加坡 韓國它是以促進AI產業發展為導向結合資料開放跟創新的政策因此它法規的限制也相對鬆綁\n那本席是認為在開放資料的這個概念下我們資料本地化與主權對台灣而言就變得相對的重要那尤其主委也常常提到主權AI這個概念那本商的質詢也有回應說資料儘量要放在國內以維繫我們國家的數位主權\n那在不妨礙企業創新的精神下這個法規的設計又應兼顧開放跟保護那所以要請教次長是說那我國開放資料的政策未來會用什麼樣的模式跟架構去設計那我們要如何回應上一次公聽會當中很多專家學者都有強調的開源的這個概念就是open source這個概念\n謝謝委員的指教委員說得非常好我們也在參考OECD它有四個分類從最封閉的Close Data到最開放的Open Data我們過去其實Open Data推得很不錯Open Data的意思是它完全不需要授權可是在AI發展的時代光是Open Data是不夠的\n他需要能夠有share data就是有些這個資料要能夠共享甚至data reuse他有些資料能夠再利用那所以本部現在正在研擬一個資料創新利用的這個草案那希望能夠建立從這個open data一直到share data到data reuse的整個機制那也不光是政府部門現在這樣做那我們也能夠希望能夠參考這個歐盟也好或美國也好的機制能夠讓產業之間也有一個這個\n資料交換或匯流的機制那這個部分我們會持續的推動立法同時我們也同時在跟這個政府爭取計劃我們希望透過計劃把相關的技術都能夠建立起來另外委員非常強調的這個主權的AI部分它最重要的是需要有一個符合台灣文化與人文化價值的資料庫那這個我們也在積極建立當中\nOK那接下來想要跟次長請教說AI基本法需要很多的配套然後執法或相關的法律訂定就如同您剛所說的那像前面提到的資料開放利用跟促進資料創新應用那我覺得還有很多很多迫切的相關法規都需要來通盤檢視喔\n譬如說政府應用我們要怎麼樣規範政府的部門來負責的應用AI或者民生相關AI的應用像是先進的醫療技術又或者是打詐阻詐這種方方面面那法規是否有相應對的調適所以請教次長最優先會調適的法規有哪幾大類那時程上會大概怎麼安排\n我們大概會有以速發部的職責來講我們當然就是風險的控制大概是一個非常重要的因素那我們除了會這個盡速的來訂定這個AI的這個人工智慧的風險框架之外我們會特別著重在可能會發生高風險的這個領域能夠跟他們跟這個相關的部會能夠合作\n儘快把法規能夠進行調制大概不外乎幾個部分智慧醫療智慧金融智慧交通以及通常會相關的跟媒體有關的AI的應用大概是我們會特別重視的重點那我們會跟儘快的跟這些部會來展開協商\n好 那最後想跟您談談就是中國在數位極權主義的擴張之下那台灣要如何應對的問題那我有在去年預算審查的時候我有請教過吳主委\n是否我們能針對中國的AI假訊息的攻擊有更多的提防進一步來研究如何用AI抵抗AI那國科會當時的回覆是說目前有研發這個數位訊息威脅情資共享框架\n的這個核心技術或者是怎麼多來源訊息傳播分析器預警的機制以及利用AI跟深度學習等先進技術檢測跟識別AI的內容所以我要請教這個次長的是說那目前我國利用AI技術抵抗中國數位極權主義有什麼進一步的願景嗎那有沒有什麼有沒有可能在資安上透過跨國界的聯防去抵禦這中國的數位領域的侵略\n首先在資安的方面的國際聯防是我們一直在做的那也會持續在推動那當然是結合跟我們裡面相近的國家因為資安其實是無國界的那這個我們會持續來進行國際的合作那委員所提到的以AI的技術來對抗AI那本部所這個\n底下有一個重要的技術單位跟智庫叫做資安院那它其實在積極研發相關技術我們有一個非常重要的計畫就是以AI的方式來研究抵禦的方式大概希望能夠識別這個訊息的危險的來源以及能夠找出最常見的惡意城市那提供不光是速發部而已而是所有的部會甚至公司部門能夠有在情思分享的架構之下能夠知道這個\n威脅的所在以及可能造成的風險那進一步來維護大家的職通訊安全\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:18.942\n很清楚知道說AI基本法是要由速發部來主導推動立法那本席比較相對有疑惑是說在原版的草案還沒有出來的狀況之下這不攸關我們的AI發展根本大法的法律\n\n00:19.822 --> 00:47.535\n是可以由這個立委們在條文中來指定主管機關的部會嗎或者是說現有的委員的草案中有額外來規劃行政院應設置的單位或指定各級機關應進行編列預算等等這個會不會跟行政院現在的規劃有一些相反格的地方是不是請主委先回答\n\n00:49.608 --> 00:51.316\n昨天早上已經指示我們\n\n00:53.842 --> 01:20.421\n這個AI基本法我們制定的時候並沒有列這個主則的部會是但是左院長已經指示說未來未來AI基本法如果通過施行的時候解釋法令的機關會是速發部是那相關的這個主政跟這個資料治理跟這個AI基本法的AI的這個應用推動包含民間產業等等速發部會是最重要的一個部會但是\n\n01:21.201 --> 01:35.512\n整個行政院所有的部會在施政過程當中一定都會使用到AI的工具包含國會的AI的研發的工作也都有關所以其實是整個行政院會一起去推動的那次長像我剛剛提問的就是說\n\n01:37.677 --> 02:04.784\n委員的草案中有額外規劃的一些行政院的一設置的單位或者是說要指定各級單位要編列預算等等那這部分跟行政院的規劃是不是有一些衝突我們行政院跟委員報告就是說剛才也有聞提到在過去大院通過大概11個基本法那絕大多數都沒有所謂的主管機關那基本法原則上是一個原則性的規定是根據主委所講的那他不會特別對組織這個做規範\n\n02:07.084 --> 02:30.843\n相同的一樣那裁員的部分那大概也必須不會在基本法內會有一些希望能夠優惠的措施但這些都必須要在譬如租稅就一定要到稅法才能夠落實那這個我們在基本法大概都會只說原則性的規範是會有組織方面的明確規範但是院裡面當然交付我們這個責任我們來推動這個立法跟解釋法律那我們就一定會這個遵照來執行了解\n\n02:32.364 --> 02:50.217\n所以很清楚我們的AI政策確實跨足各部會那根據上一次公聽會各方專家學者的發言許多人都有提到資料開放的重要性那這是一個策略上的規劃跟推動那本席認為可能需要有主政的速發部來加以重視\n\n02:51.118 --> 03:10.868\n那依據這個OECD的分類資料開放可分成四個層級那從封閉資料到差別化存取到非差別化的存取到開放資料那各國的規範也程度不一像歐盟他就強調資料的治理跟隱私雖然推動開放資料可是他對於這個\n\n03:12.650 --> 03:16.856\n各自有非常嚴格的規範亞洲國家像新加坡韓國它是以促進AI產業發展為導向結合資料開放跟創新的政策因此它法規的限制也相對鬆綁\n\n03:28.152 --> 03:47.349\n那本席是認為在開放資料的這個概念下我們資料本地化與主權對台灣而言就變得相對的重要那尤其主委也常常提到主權AI這個概念那本商的質詢也有回應說資料儘量要放在國內以維繫我們國家的數位主權\n\n03:49.471 --> 03:53.836\n那在不妨礙企業創新的精神下這個法規的設計又應兼顧開放跟保護那所以要請教次長是說那我國開放資料的政策未來會用什麼樣的模式跟架構去設計那我們要如何回應上一次公聽會當中很多專家學者都有強調的開源的這個概念就是opensource這個概念\n\n04:12.985 --> 04:28.260\n謝謝委員的指教委員說得非常好我們也在參考OECD它有四個分類從最封閉的CloseData到最開放的OpenData我們過去其實OpenData推得很不錯OpenData的意思是它完全不需要授權可是在AI發展的時代光是OpenData是不夠的\n\n04:28.860 --> 04:53.713\n他需要能夠有sharedata就是有些這個資料要能夠共享甚至datareuse他有些資料能夠再利用那所以本部現在正在研擬一個資料創新利用的這個草案那希望能夠建立從這個opendata一直到sharedata到datareuse的整個機制那也不光是政府部門現在這樣做那我們也能夠希望能夠參考這個歐盟也好或美國也好的機制能夠讓產業之間也有一個這個\n\n04:56.574 --> 05:19.401\n資料交換或匯流的機制那這個部分我們會持續的推動立法同時我們也同時在跟這個政府爭取計劃我們希望透過計劃把相關的技術都能夠建立起來另外委員非常強調的這個主權的AI部分它最重要的是需要有一個符合台灣文化與人文化價值的資料庫那這個我們也在積極建立當中\n\n05:19.921 --> 05:37.094\nOK那接下來想要跟次長請教說AI基本法需要很多的配套然後執法或相關的法律訂定就如同您剛所說的那像前面提到的資料開放利用跟促進資料創新應用那我覺得還有很多很多迫切的相關法規都需要來通盤檢視喔\n\n05:38.455 --> 06:00.109\n譬如說政府應用我們要怎麼樣規範政府的部門來負責的應用AI或者民生相關AI的應用像是先進的醫療技術又或者是打詐阻詐這種方方面面那法規是否有相應對的調適所以請教次長最優先會調適的法規有哪幾大類那時程上會大概怎麼安排\n\n06:00.919 --> 06:20.278\n我們大概會有以速發部的職責來講我們當然就是風險的控制大概是一個非常重要的因素那我們除了會這個盡速的來訂定這個AI的這個人工智慧的風險框架之外我們會特別著重在可能會發生高風險的這個領域能夠跟他們跟這個相關的部會能夠合作\n\n06:21.339 --> 06:36.657\n儘快把法規能夠進行調制大概不外乎幾個部分智慧醫療智慧金融智慧交通以及通常會相關的跟媒體有關的AI的應用大概是我們會特別重視的重點那我們會跟儘快的跟這些部會來展開協商\n\n06:38.419 --> 06:52.535\n好那最後想跟您談談就是中國在數位極權主義的擴張之下那台灣要如何應對的問題那我有在去年預算審查的時候我有請教過吳主委\n\n06:53.336 --> 07:09.323\n是否我們能針對中國的AI假訊息的攻擊有更多的提防進一步來研究如何用AI抵抗AI那國科會當時的回覆是說目前有研發這個數位訊息威脅情資共享框架\n\n07:10.183 --> 07:30.567\n的這個核心技術或者是怎麼多來源訊息傳播分析器預警的機制以及利用AI跟深度學習等先進技術檢測跟識別AI的內容所以我要請教這個次長的是說那目前我國利用AI技術抵抗中國數位極權主義有什麼進一步的願景嗎那有沒有什麼有沒有可能在資安上透過跨國界的聯防去抵禦這中國的數位領域的侵略\n\n07:39.983 --> 07:55.668\n首先在資安的方面的國際聯防是我們一直在做的那也會持續在推動那當然是結合跟我們裡面相近的國家因為資安其實是無國界的那這個我們會持續來進行國際的合作那委員所提到的以AI的技術來對抗AI那本部所這個\n\n07:57.008 --> 08:20.127\n底下有一個重要的技術單位跟智庫叫做資安院那它其實在積極研發相關技術我們有一個非常重要的計畫就是以AI的方式來研究抵禦的方式大概希望能夠識別這個訊息的危險的來源以及能夠找出最常見的惡意城市那提供不光是速發部而已而是所有的部會甚至公司部門能夠有在情思分享的架構之下能夠知道這個\n\n08:21.008 --> 08:27.071\n威脅的所在以及可能造成的風險那進一步來維護大家的職通訊安全\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":18.942,"text":"很清楚知道說AI基本法是要由速發部來主導推動立法那本席比較相對有疑惑是說在原版的草案還沒有出來的狀況之下這不攸關我們的AI發展根本大法的法律"},{"start":19.822,"end":47.535,"text":"是可以由這個立委們在條文中來指定主管機關的部會嗎或者是說現有的委員的草案中有額外來規劃行政院應設置的單位或指定各級機關應進行編列預算等等這個會不會跟行政院現在的規劃有一些相反格的地方是不是請主委先回答"},{"start":49.608,"end":51.316,"text":"昨天早上已經指示我們"},{"start":53.842,"end":80.421,"text":"這個AI基本法我們制定的時候並沒有列這個主則的部會是但是左院長已經指示說未來未來AI基本法如果通過施行的時候解釋法令的機關會是速發部是那相關的這個主政跟這個資料治理跟這個AI基本法的AI的這個應用推動包含民間產業等等速發部會是最重要的一個部會但是"},{"start":81.201,"end":95.512,"text":"整個行政院所有的部會在施政過程當中一定都會使用到AI的工具包含國會的AI的研發的工作也都有關所以其實是整個行政院會一起去推動的那次長像我剛剛提問的就是說"},{"start":97.677,"end":124.784,"text":"委員的草案中有額外規劃的一些行政院的一設置的單位或者是說要指定各級單位要編列預算等等那這部分跟行政院的規劃是不是有一些衝突我們行政院跟委員報告就是說剛才也有聞提到在過去大院通過大概11個基本法那絕大多數都沒有所謂的主管機關那基本法原則上是一個原則性的規定是根據主委所講的那他不會特別對組織這個做規範"},{"start":127.084,"end":150.843,"text":"相同的一樣那裁員的部分那大概也必須不會在基本法內會有一些希望能夠優惠的措施但這些都必須要在譬如租稅就一定要到稅法才能夠落實那這個我們在基本法大概都會只說原則性的規範是會有組織方面的明確規範但是院裡面當然交付我們這個責任我們來推動這個立法跟解釋法律那我們就一定會這個遵照來執行了解"},{"start":152.364,"end":170.217,"text":"所以很清楚我們的AI政策確實跨足各部會那根據上一次公聽會各方專家學者的發言許多人都有提到資料開放的重要性那這是一個策略上的規劃跟推動那本席認為可能需要有主政的速發部來加以重視"},{"start":171.118,"end":190.868,"text":"那依據這個OECD的分類資料開放可分成四個層級那從封閉資料到差別化存取到非差別化的存取到開放資料那各國的規範也程度不一像歐盟他就強調資料的治理跟隱私雖然推動開放資料可是他對於這個"},{"start":192.65,"end":196.856,"text":"各自有非常嚴格的規範亞洲國家像新加坡 韓國它是以促進AI產業發展為導向結合資料開放跟創新的政策因此它法規的限制也相對鬆綁"},{"start":208.152,"end":227.349,"text":"那本席是認為在開放資料的這個概念下我們資料本地化與主權對台灣而言就變得相對的重要那尤其主委也常常提到主權AI這個概念那本商的質詢也有回應說資料儘量要放在國內以維繫我們國家的數位主權"},{"start":229.471,"end":233.836,"text":"那在不妨礙企業創新的精神下這個法規的設計又應兼顧開放跟保護那所以要請教次長是說那我國開放資料的政策未來會用什麼樣的模式跟架構去設計那我們要如何回應上一次公聽會當中很多專家學者都有強調的開源的這個概念就是open source這個概念"},{"start":252.985,"end":268.26,"text":"謝謝委員的指教委員說得非常好我們也在參考OECD它有四個分類從最封閉的Close Data到最開放的Open Data我們過去其實Open Data推得很不錯Open Data的意思是它完全不需要授權可是在AI發展的時代光是Open Data是不夠的"},{"start":268.86,"end":293.713,"text":"他需要能夠有share data就是有些這個資料要能夠共享甚至data reuse他有些資料能夠再利用那所以本部現在正在研擬一個資料創新利用的這個草案那希望能夠建立從這個open data一直到share data到data reuse的整個機制那也不光是政府部門現在這樣做那我們也能夠希望能夠參考這個歐盟也好或美國也好的機制能夠讓產業之間也有一個這個"},{"start":296.574,"end":319.401,"text":"資料交換或匯流的機制那這個部分我們會持續的推動立法同時我們也同時在跟這個政府爭取計劃我們希望透過計劃把相關的技術都能夠建立起來另外委員非常強調的這個主權的AI部分它最重要的是需要有一個符合台灣文化與人文化價值的資料庫那這個我們也在積極建立當中"},{"start":319.921,"end":337.094,"text":"OK那接下來想要跟次長請教說AI基本法需要很多的配套然後執法或相關的法律訂定就如同您剛所說的那像前面提到的資料開放利用跟促進資料創新應用那我覺得還有很多很多迫切的相關法規都需要來通盤檢視喔"},{"start":338.455,"end":360.109,"text":"譬如說政府應用我們要怎麼樣規範政府的部門來負責的應用AI或者民生相關AI的應用像是先進的醫療技術又或者是打詐阻詐這種方方面面那法規是否有相應對的調適所以請教次長最優先會調適的法規有哪幾大類那時程上會大概怎麼安排"},{"start":360.919,"end":380.278,"text":"我們大概會有以速發部的職責來講我們當然就是風險的控制大概是一個非常重要的因素那我們除了會這個盡速的來訂定這個AI的這個人工智慧的風險框架之外我們會特別著重在可能會發生高風險的這個領域能夠跟他們跟這個相關的部會能夠合作"},{"start":381.339,"end":396.657,"text":"儘快把法規能夠進行調制大概不外乎幾個部分智慧醫療智慧金融智慧交通以及通常會相關的跟媒體有關的AI的應用大概是我們會特別重視的重點那我們會跟儘快的跟這些部會來展開協商"},{"start":398.419,"end":412.535,"text":"好 那最後想跟您談談就是中國在數位極權主義的擴張之下那台灣要如何應對的問題那我有在去年預算審查的時候我有請教過吳主委"},{"start":413.336,"end":429.323,"text":"是否我們能針對中國的AI假訊息的攻擊有更多的提防進一步來研究如何用AI抵抗AI那國科會當時的回覆是說目前有研發這個數位訊息威脅情資共享框架"},{"start":430.183,"end":450.567,"text":"的這個核心技術或者是怎麼多來源訊息傳播分析器預警的機制以及利用AI跟深度學習等先進技術檢測跟識別AI的內容所以我要請教這個次長的是說那目前我國利用AI技術抵抗中國數位極權主義有什麼進一步的願景嗎那有沒有什麼有沒有可能在資安上透過跨國界的聯防去抵禦這中國的數位領域的侵略"},{"start":459.983,"end":475.668,"text":"首先在資安的方面的國際聯防是我們一直在做的那也會持續在推動那當然是結合跟我們裡面相近的國家因為資安其實是無國界的那這個我們會持續來進行國際的合作那委員所提到的以AI的技術來對抗AI那本部所這個"},{"start":477.008,"end":500.127,"text":"底下有一個重要的技術單位跟智庫叫做資安院那它其實在積極研發相關技術我們有一個非常重要的計畫就是以AI的方式來研究抵禦的方式大概希望能夠識別這個訊息的危險的來源以及能夠找出最常見的惡意城市那提供不光是速發部而已而是所有的部會甚至公司部門能夠有在情思分享的架構之下能夠知道這個"},{"start":501.008,"end":507.071,"text":"威脅的所在以及可能造成的風險那進一步來維護大家的職通訊安全"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":392,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（10時50分）謝謝主席，有請葉寧次長跟吳誠文主委。"],["主席：有請葉次長、吳主委備詢，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：林委員好。"],["林委員宜瑾：主委好。首先，本席很清楚地知道AI基本法是要由數發部來主導、推動立法，本席相對比較有疑惑的是，在院版的草案還沒有出來的狀況之下，這部攸關我們AI發展的根本大法，可以由立委們在條文中來指定主管部會嗎？或者是現有委員的草案中，有額外來規劃行政院應設置的單位，或指定各級機關應編列預算等等，這個會不會跟行政院現在的規劃有一些相扞格的地方？是不是請主委先回答？"],["吳主任委員誠文：AI基本法我們制定的時候並沒有列主責的部會，但是卓院長已經指示，未來AI基本法如果通過施行，解釋法令的機關會是數發部。相關的主政、資料治理跟AI的運用、推動，包含民間產業等等，數發部會是最重要的部會，但是整個行政院所有的部會，在施政過程當中一定都會使用到AI工具，包含國科會的AI研發工作也都有關，所以其實是整個行政院會一起去推動。"],["林委員宜瑾：當然。次長，像我剛剛提問的就是，委員的草案中有額外規劃了一些行政院應設置的單位，或者是指定各級單位要編列預算等等，這部分跟行政院的規劃是不是有一些衝突？"],["葉次長寧：跟委員報告，剛才也有委員提到，過去大院通過大概11個基本法，絕大多數都沒有主管機關，基本法原則上是一個原則性的規定，如主委所講的，它不會特別對組織做規範，相同的，財源的部分大概也必須要審慎規劃……"],["林委員宜瑾：也不會在基本法內？"],["葉次長寧：當然會有一些希望能夠提供優惠的措施，但這些都必須要在其他法律落實，譬如租稅就一定要到稅法才能夠落實，這個我們在基本法大概都只會做原則性的規範，不會有組織方面的明確規範，但是院裡面交付我們來推動立法跟解釋法律，當然，我們就一定會遵照來執行。"],["林委員宜瑾：了解，所以很清楚，我們的AI政策確實跨足各部會。根據上一次公聽會各方專家學者的發言，許多人都有提到資料開放的重要性，這是一個策略上的規劃跟推動，本席認為可能需要主政的數發部加以重視。依據OECD的分類，資料開放可分成四個層級：從封閉資料到差別化存取，到非差別化存取，到開放資料，各國的規範程度不一。像歐盟就強調資料的治理跟隱私，雖然推動開放資料，可是它對於個資有非常嚴格的規範，亞洲國家像新加坡、韓國，是以促進AI產業發展為導向，結合資料開放跟創新的政策，因此它法規的限制也相對鬆綁。本席是認為在開放資料的這個概念下，資料本地化與主權，對臺灣而言就變得相對重要，尤其主委也常常提到主權AI這個概念，本席上次質詢也有回應說資料儘量要放在國內，以維繫我們國家的數位主權。在不妨礙企業創新的精神下，這個法規的設計又應兼顧開放跟保護，所以我要請教次長的是，我國開放資料的政策未來會用什麼樣的模式跟架構去設計？我們要如何回應上一次公聽會當中，很多專家學者都有強調的開源這個概念？就是open source這個概念。"],["葉次長寧：謝謝委員的指教，委員說得非常好，我們也在參考OECD的四個分類，從最封閉的closed data到最開放的open data，我們過去其實open data推得很不錯，open data的意思是它完全不需要授權，可是在AI發展的時代，光是open data是不夠的，它需要能夠share data，就是有些資料要能夠共享，甚至data reuse，它有些資料要能夠再利用，所以本部現在正在研擬一個資料創新利用的草案，希望能夠建立從open data一直到share data，再到data reuse的整個機制，不光是政府部門這樣做，不論是參考歐盟的機制也好，或美國的機制也好，我們也希望能夠讓產業之間有一個資料交換或匯流的機制，這個部分我們會持續推動立法，我們也同時在跟政府爭取計畫，希望透過計畫能夠把相關的技術都建立起來。另外，委員非常強調的主權AI部分，它最重要是需要有一個符合臺灣文化、語言文化價值的資料庫，這個我們也在積極建立當中。"],["林委員宜瑾：OK。接下來想要跟次長請教，AI基本法需要很多的配套，子法或相關的法律訂定，就如同您剛剛所說的，像前面提到的資料開放利用，跟促進資料創新應用，我覺得還有很多、很多迫切的相關法規都需要來通盤檢視，譬如政府應用，我們要怎麼樣規範政府部門負責地應用AI，或者民生相關AI的應用，像是先進的醫療技術，又或者是打詐、阻詐這些方方面面，法規是否有相應對的調適？所以請教次長，最優先會調適的法規有哪幾大類？時程上大概會怎麼安排？"],["葉次長寧：以數發部的職責來講，當然，風險的控制大概是一個非常重要的因素，我們除了會儘速地來訂定AI人工智慧的風險框架之外，我們會特別著重在可能發生高風險的領域，跟相關的部會合作，儘快把法規進行調適，大概不外乎幾個部分，像智慧醫療、智慧金融、智慧交通以及跟通傳會相關的，跟媒體有關的AI應用，大概是我們會特別重視的點，我們會儘快地跟這些部會來展開協商。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，最後想跟您談談，在中國數位極權主義的擴張之下，臺灣要如何應對的問題，因為我在去年預算審查的時候有請教過吳主委，我們是否能針對中國的AI假訊息攻擊，有更多的提防，並且進一步來研究如何用AI抵抗AI。國科會當時的回復是，目前有研發數位訊息威脅情資共享框架的核心技術，或者是多來源訊息傳播分析暨預警的機制，以及利用AI跟深度學習等先進技術來檢測跟識別AI的內容。所以我要請教次長的是，目前我國利用AI技術抵抗中國數位極權主義，有什麼進一步的願景嗎？有沒有可能在資安上透過跨國界的聯防，去抵禦中國數位領域的侵略？"],["葉次長寧：首先，資安方面的國際聯防是我們一直在做的，也會持續推動，結合跟我們理念相近的國家，因為資安其實是無國界的，這個我們會持續來進行國際的合作。委員所提到的，以AI的技術來對抗AI，本部底下有一個重要的技術單位跟智庫，叫做資安院，它其實有在積極研發相關的技術，我們有一個非常重要的計畫，就是以AI的方式來研究抵禦的方式，希望能夠識別這個訊息的危險來源，以及能夠找出最常見的惡意程式，不光是提供數發部而已，而是所有的部會，甚至公司部門，都能夠在情資分享的架構之下知道威脅所在，以及可能造成的風險，進一步來維護大家的資通訊安全。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，謝謝次長，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝林宜瑾召委的質詢，官員請回座。","接下來請葉元之委員，對不起，不好意思，葉元之委員，因為今天列席同仁很多，我們先休息10分鐘，好不好？我們剛剛有稍微宣告過了，謝謝。我們休息10分鐘，不好意思。","休息（10時59分）","繼續開會（11時9分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","接下來有請葉元之委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-22,23-1","speakers":["葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳宗憲","張嘉郡","洪孟楷","柯志恩","李昆澤","林俊憲","陳素月","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","葉元之","蔡其昌","劉書彬","萬美玲","張雅琳","郭昱晴","何欣純","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","游顥","徐富癸","吳沛憶","謝龍介","楊瓊瓔","范雲","林沛祥","邱若華","廖先翔","許宇甄","邱志偉"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-05-14"],"gazette_id":"1144802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144802_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員葛如鈞等37人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；二、審查委員邱若華等 17 人擬具\n「人工智慧基本法草案」案；三、審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；四、\n審查委員萬美玲等18人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；五、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「人工\n智慧基本法草案」案；六、審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；七、審查委\n員林倩綺等23人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案 （僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1144802_00004"}}}