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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 527.905, \"end\": 528.105, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 528.105, \"end\": 528.406, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"偏\", \"start\": 528.406, \"end\": 528.606, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 528.606, \"end\": 528.886, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 528.886, \"end\": 528.906, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 528.906, \"end\": 529.086, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 529.086, \"end\": 529.106, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 529.106, \"end\": 529.226, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 529.226, \"end\": 529.306, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 529.306, \"end\": 529.386, \"score\": 0.519}, {\"word\": \"弱\", \"start\": 529.386, \"end\": 529.546, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 620.085, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 620.085, \"end\": 620.265, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 620.265, \"end\": 620.325, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 620.325, \"end\": 620.465, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 620.465, \"end\": 620.485, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,371 --> 00:00:12,037\n謝謝主席主席我有請經濟部的何次還有我們的農業部的陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:22,820 --> 00:00:31,145\n剛剛有委員提到說要發現金的部分舉日本為例子可是日本石破茂首相他也曾經確實提過要發3萬到5萬的日幣但是後來高達57%的民眾反對\n\n3\n00:00:39,930 --> 00:00:54,129\n所以因此目前已經擱置了我讓你知道一下齁這個法案審查的過程當中要明確的理解齁國際常識啦齁好你先請回齁好我先請部長齁部長部長就教於您齁\n\n4\n00:00:55,330 --> 00:01:09,242\n農業部其實在這次關稅的這個充其家進口的壓力的情況底下可以說是重中之重那在卓院長那時候就提到說跟對美的談判要以BTT為目標農業談判是重點\n\n5\n00:01:11,244 --> 00:01:18,311\n即便在拜登政府的時候台美21世紀的貿易協議當中農業也視為深水區這個部分問題就來了剛開始的時候我們所提出來的880億的時候農業部門所配置的金額是180億到了4100億的時候農業部門還是一樣180億\n\n6\n00:01:37,988 --> 00:02:04,057\n那就奇怪啦既然是重中之重呢為什麼比重從20%降為4%這是我第一個要就教於您的總額的配置的問題那很顯然不符比例嘛這是第一第二的部分就內容的配置的部分我詳細看了一下那個貴部所提出來的部分是農業貸款加碼補助強化冷鏈系統擴大海外行銷\n\n7\n00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:30,013\n這個不是經常性的年度計畫內容嗎為什麼把經常性的年度計畫內容當中來應對這一個比較突發性的類似暫時性的老實講我很難理解啦能不能請部長就這兩個部分一種的比例二配置的方向二配置的方向的這種方式呢其實老實講啊\n\n8\n00:02:32,768 --> 00:02:50,799\n顧強不顧弱啦就相對優勢的部分你去強化它譬如講你本身產業的優勢之所以能夠出口它就是本身在農業品項當中相對是比較優勢的不論是毛豆的蘭花等等嘛就你補助它可是相對弱勢的部分卻沒有看到耶部長\n\n9\n00:02:51,639 --> 00:03:02,563\n其實我跟委員報告齁您剛剛講的那個總額從原來的20到變成4%齁那最主要是母數的差異齁那之前只處理因應關稅的部分是881億裡面我們181億大概20%左右那後來變成4是因為\n\n10\n00:03:07,265 --> 00:03:28,955\n在整個特別預算裡面的一些內容有增加特別增加國土安全韌性的部分所以總而變成4100億但是以農業部來講我們還是以180億為主因為現在目前關稅的不確定性還在那邊我們現在在估計的話都是以10%的關稅為主第一點那第二點就是說我們現在目前因應關稅的部分其實\n\n11\n00:03:29,995 --> 00:03:57,837\n比較急迫的是我們要減輕我們農民的一個資金的一個需求壓力所以我們在金融支持跟後面的因應關稅我們希望它能夠持續去進去那個市場而不是去撤退不過委員講的一個很重要就是弱勢的這些產業齁其實我們在整個產業支持裡面我們特別強調跟產業有關的直接跟間接的影響\n\n12\n00:03:58,638 --> 00:04:25,098\n那那些後面我想我們會來處理部長我坐在的為什麼提這個東西我認為不對焦的原因你看去關稅之後第一個問題我面臨的就是一個開放市場問題即便我們對美的農業貿易的部分是屬於逆差了28億的這個部分但是他很清楚的點明了一部分也就是說我們要如何去開放開放市場還有排除這個貿易障礙的部分簡單的講我舉一個例子就是當初\n\n13\n00:04:28,140 --> 00:04:42,521\n在三月底的時候他就提到稻米基改食品肉品馬鈴薯的這個部分那以美日之間的談判稻米是關鍵以美韓之間的討論的部分貿易食品的限制的解除是關鍵\n\n14\n00:04:43,840 --> 00:05:03,499\n那央行的部分也提過要買能源軍購還有農產品按照目前的部分如果頭期首號擴大這個採購的部分可能是傷害最少的部分黃豆玉米三成七進口的部分小麥的部分佔七成九也就是這個部分我們還有沒有可能擴大採購的空間不長\n\n15\n00:05:05,521 --> 00:05:28,510\n我想第一個部分就是在黃小玉的部分其實我們還有擴大採購的空間大約多少那基本上從原來的12大概是黃小玉大概是12應該是9.4億左右那未來可能會擴增到12億左右因為我們的本身的飼料的品質美國會比較好所以我們會有增加的這個部分好這個部分有一些空間那我再問你\n\n16\n00:05:30,171 --> 00:05:41,336\n除了這個擴大的部分的部分是可以我們釋放出來但另外一個部分是我們防守的我們防守的部分舉稻米為例現在WTO下的稻米的總額的進口配額大概144,720噸大概接近滿額的情況底下將來如果稻米視為一個關鍵的地方就兩個重點\n\n17\n00:05:52,361 --> 00:06:08,860\n一個你這個進口配額的部分你有沒有可能拉高這第一第二個部分最近的部分有沒有可能下降這第二個我覺得這兩個是關鍵啦那我提的這兩個不是我的主張我是說你有沒有辦法防守有沒有可能讓步這兩個是不是堅決不讓步的地方請說\n\n18\n00:06:09,813 --> 00:06:34,800\n我想針對稻米因為稻米本身種到的農民大概有將近30萬本將近22萬到30萬之間所以我第一個部分不管是配額的量的部分第二個就是配額外的關稅的部分以農業部的立場我們不會讓步不會讓步好非常清楚因為其實那個就成本來說差額實在太大了這個剛剛表列當中都有還有一個肌肉的部分\n\n19\n00:06:35,780 --> 00:06:54,692\n你進口雞肉部分,美國進來的雞肉,我其實講好了,大概占50%啦他們不吃,只要沒有偏好雞腿啦那這個部分呢,有一個很現實的狀況這個關稅的部分,你有沒有可能有讓步的可能性那這兩個加總起來,夯不啷噹喔總共的產值是高達一千億歐\n\n20\n00:06:57,302 --> 00:07:23,312\n你這個還是要透過貸款或者是這個外銷可以營業嗎?可以解決他的問題嗎?部長我跟委員報告包括您剛才講的稻米還有我們現在的雞肉那雞肉我們的國產的自由率大概68%但是他影響的是全部產業從北到南都有所以以農業部的立場我們以糧食安全的確保是最重要的以確保農民的權益是更重要的\n\n21\n00:07:23,792 --> 00:07:45,412\n所以在這兩個部分我想我們都會我們會捍衛我們原來的一個配額跟關稅因為這個成本實在差非常多國產的道米是50然後美國的這個成本大概30然後另外一個這個部分肌肉的部分大概100然後美國的部分大概68所以這種情況底下對本土的這個產業當然會造成很大的衝擊當然要堅守立場\n\n22\n00:07:47,153 --> 00:07:58,398\n那另外一個部分當然就是解除限制的部分一直被對方挑毛病的部分就是馬鈴薯發芽限制的部分跟基改的這個部分這個部分有談判的空間嗎\n\n23\n00:07:59,485 --> 00:08:18,517\n我想馬鈴薯的部分是有的因為馬鈴薯本身我們原來是直接退運那其實我們有提供他一個可以篩選的機會我們的條件還在那邊但是我們提供他篩選的部分所以這是將來我們的談判籌碼之一馬鈴薯發芽的部分他因為可能\n\n24\n00:08:18,897 --> 00:08:29,713\n構成所謂食品安全的問題用一些科學的數字來可以做談判的討論的空間嘛這是可能性之一嘛所以限制的部分才是談判的重點啦那基改的部分呢\n\n25\n00:08:30,438 --> 00:08:50,186\n我想基改的部分應該是在衛福部的主管以農業部來講我們是飼料那現在的飼料大概都是基改的玉米跟基改的黃豆的飼料為主但是本席還是要跟你強調就你前面的配置的部分老實講都是比較偏重於相對強勢的一個項目當中弱勢的部分請部長要予以特別的\n\n26\n00:08:56,969 --> 00:09:19,730\n因應跟關注啦或許你底牌還沒有想要先出來但是還有一個部分是針對人的部分有時候農民個人任性的部分也是非常關鍵第一個我必須講說相關的衝擊對整個農業家庭來說相關的衝擊我是覺得這個要去面對第一個我們老農津貼的部分的排布條款在2023年本席就已經提出來了\n\n27\n00:09:20,990 --> 00:09:46,238\n遲遲都沒有回應我本人也跟你提過好幾次至於相隔14年之久不符時宜該條要條這是第一第二農保的覆蓋率也是偏低這個部分也非常清楚也就是說對個人的這個任性的加強的部分也請這個農業部門針對於農民的相關的社會安全保障以及相關的一個福利的網絡能夠做一個慎重跟檢討\n\n28\n00:09:48,028 --> 00:10:08,349\n好謝謝委員我想老農經驗的排布條款其實農業部有已經把相關我們的建議有提到行政院去那行政院也召開了相關的政委召開了相關的會議現在就等待其他的八大社福的一致性啦那如果有一致性的共識的時候我相信就會儘快的來提出修改\n\n29\n00:10:08,769 --> 00:10:20,485\n還有其他的相關的這個保險的部分請部長一併去思考這個時候確實是要重新檢討竅話的時刻了好不好好我想我們會努力來做好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8371\t12037\t謝謝主席主席我有請經濟部的何次還有我們的農業部的陳部長\n22820\t31145\t剛剛有委員提到說要發現金的部分舉日本為例子可是日本石破茂首相他也曾經確實提過要發3萬到5萬的日幣但是後來高達57%的民眾反對\n39930\t54129\t所以因此目前已經擱置了我讓你知道一下齁這個法案審查的過程當中要明確的理解齁國際常識啦齁好你先請回齁好我先請部長齁部長部長就教於您齁\n55330\t69242\t農業部其實在這次關稅的這個充其家進口的壓力的情況底下可以說是重中之重那在卓院長那時候就提到說跟對美的談判要以BTT為目標農業談判是重點\n71244\t78311\t即便在拜登政府的時候台美21世紀的貿易協議當中農業也視為深水區這個部分問題就來了剛開始的時候我們所提出來的880億的時候農業部門所配置的金額是180億到了4100億的時候農業部門還是一樣180億\n97988\t124057\t那就奇怪啦既然是重中之重呢為什麼比重從20%降為4%這是我第一個要就教於您的總額的配置的問題那很顯然不符比例嘛這是第一第二的部分就內容的配置的部分我詳細看了一下那個貴部所提出來的部分是農業貸款加碼補助強化冷鏈系統擴大海外行銷\n125599\t150013\t這個不是經常性的年度計畫內容嗎為什麼把經常性的年度計畫內容當中來應對這一個比較突發性的類似暫時性的老實講我很難理解啦能不能請部長就這兩個部分一種的比例 二配置的方向二配置的方向的這種方式呢其實老實講啊\n152768\t170799\t顧強不顧弱啦就相對優勢的部分你去強化它譬如講你本身產業的優勢之所以能夠出口它就是本身在農業品項當中相對是比較優勢的不論是毛豆的 蘭花等等嘛就你補助它可是相對弱勢的部分卻沒有看到耶部長\n171639\t182563\t其實我跟委員報告齁您剛剛講的那個總額從原來的20到變成4%齁那最主要是母數的差異齁那之前只處理因應關稅的部分是881億裡面我們181億大概20%左右那後來變成4是因為\n187265\t208955\t在整個特別預算裡面的一些內容有增加特別增加國土安全韌性的部分所以總而變成4100億但是以農業部來講我們還是以180億為主因為現在目前關稅的不確定性還在那邊我們現在在估計的話都是以10%的關稅為主第一點那第二點就是說我們現在目前因應關稅的部分其實\n209995\t237837\t比較急迫的是我們要減輕我們農民的一個資金的一個需求壓力所以我們在金融支持跟後面的因應關稅我們希望它能夠持續去進去那個市場而不是去撤退不過委員講的一個很重要就是弱勢的這些產業齁其實我們在整個產業支持裡面我們特別強調跟產業有關的直接跟間接的影響\n238638\t265098\t那那些後面我想我們會來處理部長我坐在的為什麼提這個東西我認為不對焦的原因你看去關稅之後第一個問題我面臨的就是一個開放市場問題即便我們對美的農業貿易的部分是屬於逆差了28億的這個部分但是他很清楚的點明了一部分也就是說我們要如何去開放開放市場還有排除這個貿易障礙的部分簡單的講我舉一個例子就是當初\n268140\t282521\t在三月底的時候他就提到稻米基改食品肉品馬鈴薯的這個部分那以美日之間的談判稻米是關鍵以美韓之間的討論的部分貿易食品的限制的解除是關鍵\n283840\t303499\t那央行的部分也提過要買能源軍購還有農產品按照目前的部分如果頭期首號擴大這個採購的部分可能是傷害最少的部分黃豆玉米三成七進口的部分小麥的部分佔七成九也就是這個部分我們還有沒有可能擴大採購的空間不長\n305521\t328510\t我想第一個部分就是在黃小玉的部分其實我們還有擴大採購的空間大約多少那基本上從原來的12大概是黃小玉大概是12應該是9.4億左右那未來可能會擴增到12億左右因為我們的本身的飼料的品質美國會比較好所以我們會有增加的這個部分好這個部分有一些空間那我再問你\n330171\t341336\t除了這個擴大的部分的部分是可以我們釋放出來但另外一個部分是我們防守的我們防守的部分舉稻米為例現在WTO下的稻米的總額的進口配額大概144,720噸大概接近滿額的情況底下將來如果稻米視為一個關鍵的地方就兩個重點\n352361\t368860\t一個 你這個進口配額的部分你有沒有可能拉高 這第一第二個部分 最近的部分有沒有可能下降 這第二個我覺得這兩個是關鍵啦那我提的這兩個不是我的主張我是說 你有沒有辦法防守有沒有可能讓步這兩個是不是堅決不讓步的地方 請說\n369813\t394800\t我想針對稻米因為稻米本身種到的農民大概有將近30萬本將近22萬到30萬之間所以我第一個部分不管是配額的量的部分第二個就是配額外的關稅的部分以農業部的立場我們不會讓步不會讓步好非常清楚因為其實那個就成本來說差額實在太大了這個剛剛表列當中都有還有一個肌肉的部分\n395780\t414692\t你進口雞肉部分,美國進來的雞肉,我其實講好了,大概占50%啦他們不吃,只要沒有偏好雞腿啦那這個部分呢,有一個很現實的狀況這個關稅的部分,你有沒有可能有讓步的可能性那這兩個加總起來,夯不啷噹喔總共的產值是高達一千億歐\n417302\t443312\t你這個還是要透過貸款或者是這個外銷可以營業嗎?可以解決他的問題嗎?部長我跟委員報告包括您剛才講的稻米還有我們現在的雞肉那雞肉我們的國產的自由率大概68%但是他影響的是全部產業從北到南都有所以以農業部的立場我們以糧食安全的確保是最重要的以確保農民的權益是更重要的\n443792\t465412\t所以在這兩個部分我想我們都會我們會捍衛我們原來的一個配額跟關稅因為這個成本實在差非常多國產的道米是50然後美國的這個成本大概30然後另外一個這個部分肌肉的部分大概100然後美國的部分大概68所以這種情況底下對本土的這個產業當然會造成很大的衝擊當然要堅守立場\n467153\t478398\t那另外一個部分當然就是解除限制的部分一直被對方挑毛病的部分就是馬鈴薯發芽限制的部分跟基改的這個部分這個部分有談判的空間嗎\n479485\t498517\t我想馬鈴薯的部分是有的因為馬鈴薯本身我們原來是直接退運那其實我們有提供他一個可以篩選的機會我們的條件還在那邊但是我們提供他篩選的部分所以這是將來我們的談判籌碼之一馬鈴薯發芽的部分他因為可能\n498897\t509713\t構成所謂食品安全的問題用一些科學的數字來可以做談判的討論的空間嘛這是可能性之一嘛所以限制的部分才是談判的重點啦那基改的部分呢\n510438\t530186\t我想基改的部分應該是在衛福部的主管以農業部來講我們是飼料那現在的飼料大概都是基改的玉米跟基改的黃豆的飼料為主但是本席還是要跟你強調就你前面的配置的部分老實講都是比較偏重於相對強勢的一個項目當中弱勢的部分請部長要予以特別的\n536969\t559730\t因應跟關注啦或許你底牌還沒有想要先出來但是還有一個部分是針對人的部分有時候農民個人任性的部分也是非常關鍵第一個我必須講說相關的衝擊對整個農業家庭來說相關的衝擊我是覺得這個要去面對第一個我們老農津貼的部分的排布條款在2023年本席就已經提出來了\n560990\t586238\t遲遲都沒有回應 我本人也跟你提過好幾次至於相隔14年之久 不符時宜該條要條 這是第一第二 農保的覆蓋率也是偏低這個部分也非常清楚也就是說對個人的這個任性的加強的部分也請這個農業部門針對於農民的相關的社會安全保障以及相關的一個福利的網絡能夠做一個慎重跟檢討\n588028\t608349\t好 謝謝委員我想老農經驗的排布條款其實農業部有已經把相關我們的建議有提到行政院去那行政院也召開了相關的 政委召開了相關的會議現在就等待其他的八大社福的一致性啦那如果有一致性的共識的時候我相信就會儘快的來提出修改\n608769\t620485\t還有其他的相關的這個保險的部分請部長一併去思考這個時候確實是要重新檢討竅話的時刻了好不好好 我想我們會努力來做好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席我有請經濟部的何次還有我們的農業部的陳部長\n剛剛有委員提到說要發現金的部分舉日本為例子可是日本石破茂首相他也曾經確實提過要發3萬到5萬的日幣但是後來高達57%的民眾反對\n所以因此目前已經擱置了我讓你知道一下齁這個法案審查的過程當中要明確的理解齁國際常識啦齁好你先請回齁好我先請部長齁部長部長就教於您齁\n農業部其實在這次關稅的這個充其家進口的壓力的情況底下可以說是重中之重那在卓院長那時候就提到說跟對美的談判要以BTT為目標農業談判是重點\n即便在拜登政府的時候台美21世紀的貿易協議當中農業也視為深水區這個部分問題就來了剛開始的時候我們所提出來的880億的時候農業部門所配置的金額是180億到了4100億的時候農業部門還是一樣180億\n那就奇怪啦既然是重中之重呢為什麼比重從20%降為4%這是我第一個要就教於您的總額的配置的問題那很顯然不符比例嘛這是第一第二的部分就內容的配置的部分我詳細看了一下那個貴部所提出來的部分是農業貸款加碼補助強化冷鏈系統擴大海外行銷\n這個不是經常性的年度計畫內容嗎為什麼把經常性的年度計畫內容當中來應對這一個比較突發性的類似暫時性的老實講我很難理解啦能不能請部長就這兩個部分一種的比例 二配置的方向二配置的方向的這種方式呢其實老實講啊\n顧強不顧弱啦就相對優勢的部分你去強化它譬如講你本身產業的優勢之所以能夠出口它就是本身在農業品項當中相對是比較優勢的不論是毛豆的 蘭花等等嘛就你補助它可是相對弱勢的部分卻沒有看到耶部長\n其實我跟委員報告齁您剛剛講的那個總額從原來的20到變成4%齁那最主要是母數的差異齁那之前只處理因應關稅的部分是881億裡面我們181億大概20%左右那後來變成4是因為\n在整個特別預算裡面的一些內容有增加特別增加國土安全韌性的部分所以總而變成4100億但是以農業部來講我們還是以180億為主因為現在目前關稅的不確定性還在那邊我們現在在估計的話都是以10%的關稅為主第一點那第二點就是說我們現在目前因應關稅的部分其實\n比較急迫的是我們要減輕我們農民的一個資金的一個需求壓力所以我們在金融支持跟後面的因應關稅我們希望它能夠持續去進去那個市場而不是去撤退不過委員講的一個很重要就是弱勢的這些產業齁其實我們在整個產業支持裡面我們特別強調跟產業有關的直接跟間接的影響\n那那些後面我想我們會來處理部長我坐在的為什麼提這個東西我認為不對焦的原因你看去關稅之後第一個問題我面臨的就是一個開放市場問題即便我們對美的農業貿易的部分是屬於逆差了28億的這個部分但是他很清楚的點明了一部分也就是說我們要如何去開放開放市場還有排除這個貿易障礙的部分簡單的講我舉一個例子就是當初\n在三月底的時候他就提到稻米基改食品肉品馬鈴薯的這個部分那以美日之間的談判稻米是關鍵以美韓之間的討論的部分貿易食品的限制的解除是關鍵\n那央行的部分也提過要買能源軍購還有農產品按照目前的部分如果頭期首號擴大這個採購的部分可能是傷害最少的部分黃豆玉米三成七進口的部分小麥的部分佔七成九也就是這個部分我們還有沒有可能擴大採購的空間不長\n我想第一個部分就是在黃小玉的部分其實我們還有擴大採購的空間大約多少那基本上從原來的12大概是黃小玉大概是12應該是9.4億左右那未來可能會擴增到12億左右因為我們的本身的飼料的品質美國會比較好所以我們會有增加的這個部分好這個部分有一些空間那我再問你\n除了這個擴大的部分的部分是可以我們釋放出來但另外一個部分是我們防守的我們防守的部分舉稻米為例現在WTO下的稻米的總額的進口配額大概144,720噸大概接近滿額的情況底下將來如果稻米視為一個關鍵的地方就兩個重點\n一個 你這個進口配額的部分你有沒有可能拉高 這第一第二個部分 最近的部分有沒有可能下降 這第二個我覺得這兩個是關鍵啦那我提的這兩個不是我的主張我是說 你有沒有辦法防守有沒有可能讓步這兩個是不是堅決不讓步的地方 請說\n我想針對稻米因為稻米本身種到的農民大概有將近30萬本將近22萬到30萬之間所以我第一個部分不管是配額的量的部分第二個就是配額外的關稅的部分以農業部的立場我們不會讓步不會讓步好非常清楚因為其實那個就成本來說差額實在太大了這個剛剛表列當中都有還有一個肌肉的部分\n你進口雞肉部分,美國進來的雞肉,我其實講好了,大概占50%啦他們不吃,只要沒有偏好雞腿啦那這個部分呢,有一個很現實的狀況這個關稅的部分,你有沒有可能有讓步的可能性那這兩個加總起來,夯不啷噹喔總共的產值是高達一千億歐\n你這個還是要透過貸款或者是這個外銷可以營業嗎?可以解決他的問題嗎?部長我跟委員報告包括您剛才講的稻米還有我們現在的雞肉那雞肉我們的國產的自由率大概68%但是他影響的是全部產業從北到南都有所以以農業部的立場我們以糧食安全的確保是最重要的以確保農民的權益是更重要的\n所以在這兩個部分我想我們都會我們會捍衛我們原來的一個配額跟關稅因為這個成本實在差非常多國產的道米是50然後美國的這個成本大概30然後另外一個這個部分肌肉的部分大概100然後美國的部分大概68所以這種情況底下對本土的這個產業當然會造成很大的衝擊當然要堅守立場\n那另外一個部分當然就是解除限制的部分一直被對方挑毛病的部分就是馬鈴薯發芽限制的部分跟基改的這個部分這個部分有談判的空間嗎\n我想馬鈴薯的部分是有的因為馬鈴薯本身我們原來是直接退運那其實我們有提供他一個可以篩選的機會我們的條件還在那邊但是我們提供他篩選的部分所以這是將來我們的談判籌碼之一馬鈴薯發芽的部分他因為可能\n構成所謂食品安全的問題用一些科學的數字來可以做談判的討論的空間嘛這是可能性之一嘛所以限制的部分才是談判的重點啦那基改的部分呢\n我想基改的部分應該是在衛福部的主管以農業部來講我們是飼料那現在的飼料大概都是基改的玉米跟基改的黃豆的飼料為主但是本席還是要跟你強調就你前面的配置的部分老實講都是比較偏重於相對強勢的一個項目當中弱勢的部分請部長要予以特別的\n因應跟關注啦或許你底牌還沒有想要先出來但是還有一個部分是針對人的部分有時候農民個人任性的部分也是非常關鍵第一個我必須講說相關的衝擊對整個農業家庭來說相關的衝擊我是覺得這個要去面對第一個我們老農津貼的部分的排布條款在2023年本席就已經提出來了\n遲遲都沒有回應 我本人也跟你提過好幾次至於相隔14年之久 不符時宜該條要條 這是第一第二 農保的覆蓋率也是偏低這個部分也非常清楚也就是說對個人的這個任性的加強的部分也請這個農業部門針對於農民的相關的社會安全保障以及相關的一個福利的網絡能夠做一個慎重跟檢討\n好 謝謝委員我想老農經驗的排布條款其實農業部有已經把相關我們的建議有提到行政院去那行政院也召開了相關的 政委召開了相關的會議現在就等待其他的八大社福的一致性啦那如果有一致性的共識的時候我相信就會儘快的來提出修改\n還有其他的相關的這個保險的部分請部長一併去思考這個時候確實是要重新檢討竅話的時刻了好不好好 我想我們會努力來做好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.371 --> 00:12.037\n謝謝主席主席我有請經濟部的何次還有我們的農業部的陳部長\n\n00:22.820 --> 00:31.145\n剛剛有委員提到說要發現金的部分舉日本為例子可是日本石破茂首相他也曾經確實提過要發3萬到5萬的日幣但是後來高達57%的民眾反對\n\n00:39.930 --> 00:54.129\n所以因此目前已經擱置了我讓你知道一下齁這個法案審查的過程當中要明確的理解齁國際常識啦齁好你先請回齁好我先請部長齁部長部長就教於您齁\n\n00:55.330 --> 01:09.242\n農業部其實在這次關稅的這個充其家進口的壓力的情況底下可以說是重中之重那在卓院長那時候就提到說跟對美的談判要以BTT為目標農業談判是重點\n\n01:11.244 --> 01:18.311\n即便在拜登政府的時候台美21世紀的貿易協議當中農業也視為深水區這個部分問題就來了剛開始的時候我們所提出來的880億的時候農業部門所配置的金額是180億到了4100億的時候農業部門還是一樣180億\n\n01:37.988 --> 02:04.057\n那就奇怪啦既然是重中之重呢為什麼比重從20%降為4%這是我第一個要就教於您的總額的配置的問題那很顯然不符比例嘛這是第一第二的部分就內容的配置的部分我詳細看了一下那個貴部所提出來的部分是農業貸款加碼補助強化冷鏈系統擴大海外行銷\n\n02:05.599 --> 02:30.013\n這個不是經常性的年度計畫內容嗎為什麼把經常性的年度計畫內容當中來應對這一個比較突發性的類似暫時性的老實講我很難理解啦能不能請部長就這兩個部分一種的比例二配置的方向二配置的方向的這種方式呢其實老實講啊\n\n02:32.768 --> 02:50.799\n顧強不顧弱啦就相對優勢的部分你去強化它譬如講你本身產業的優勢之所以能夠出口它就是本身在農業品項當中相對是比較優勢的不論是毛豆的蘭花等等嘛就你補助它可是相對弱勢的部分卻沒有看到耶部長\n\n02:51.639 --> 03:02.563\n其實我跟委員報告齁您剛剛講的那個總額從原來的20到變成4%齁那最主要是母數的差異齁那之前只處理因應關稅的部分是881億裡面我們181億大概20%左右那後來變成4是因為\n\n03:07.265 --> 03:28.955\n在整個特別預算裡面的一些內容有增加特別增加國土安全韌性的部分所以總而變成4100億但是以農業部來講我們還是以180億為主因為現在目前關稅的不確定性還在那邊我們現在在估計的話都是以10%的關稅為主第一點那第二點就是說我們現在目前因應關稅的部分其實\n\n03:29.995 --> 03:57.837\n比較急迫的是我們要減輕我們農民的一個資金的一個需求壓力所以我們在金融支持跟後面的因應關稅我們希望它能夠持續去進去那個市場而不是去撤退不過委員講的一個很重要就是弱勢的這些產業齁其實我們在整個產業支持裡面我們特別強調跟產業有關的直接跟間接的影響\n\n03:58.638 --> 04:25.098\n那那些後面我想我們會來處理部長我坐在的為什麼提這個東西我認為不對焦的原因你看去關稅之後第一個問題我面臨的就是一個開放市場問題即便我們對美的農業貿易的部分是屬於逆差了28億的這個部分但是他很清楚的點明了一部分也就是說我們要如何去開放開放市場還有排除這個貿易障礙的部分簡單的講我舉一個例子就是當初\n\n04:28.140 --> 04:42.521\n在三月底的時候他就提到稻米基改食品肉品馬鈴薯的這個部分那以美日之間的談判稻米是關鍵以美韓之間的討論的部分貿易食品的限制的解除是關鍵\n\n04:43.840 --> 05:03.499\n那央行的部分也提過要買能源軍購還有農產品按照目前的部分如果頭期首號擴大這個採購的部分可能是傷害最少的部分黃豆玉米三成七進口的部分小麥的部分佔七成九也就是這個部分我們還有沒有可能擴大採購的空間不長\n\n05:05.521 --> 05:28.510\n我想第一個部分就是在黃小玉的部分其實我們還有擴大採購的空間大約多少那基本上從原來的12大概是黃小玉大概是12應該是9.4億左右那未來可能會擴增到12億左右因為我們的本身的飼料的品質美國會比較好所以我們會有增加的這個部分好這個部分有一些空間那我再問你\n\n05:30.171 --> 05:41.336\n除了這個擴大的部分的部分是可以我們釋放出來但另外一個部分是我們防守的我們防守的部分舉稻米為例現在WTO下的稻米的總額的進口配額大概144,720噸大概接近滿額的情況底下將來如果稻米視為一個關鍵的地方就兩個重點\n\n05:52.361 --> 06:08.860\n一個你這個進口配額的部分你有沒有可能拉高這第一第二個部分最近的部分有沒有可能下降這第二個我覺得這兩個是關鍵啦那我提的這兩個不是我的主張我是說你有沒有辦法防守有沒有可能讓步這兩個是不是堅決不讓步的地方請說\n\n06:09.813 --> 06:34.800\n我想針對稻米因為稻米本身種到的農民大概有將近30萬本將近22萬到30萬之間所以我第一個部分不管是配額的量的部分第二個就是配額外的關稅的部分以農業部的立場我們不會讓步不會讓步好非常清楚因為其實那個就成本來說差額實在太大了這個剛剛表列當中都有還有一個肌肉的部分\n\n06:35.780 --> 06:54.692\n你進口雞肉部分,美國進來的雞肉,我其實講好了,大概占50%啦他們不吃,只要沒有偏好雞腿啦那這個部分呢,有一個很現實的狀況這個關稅的部分,你有沒有可能有讓步的可能性那這兩個加總起來,夯不啷噹喔總共的產值是高達一千億歐\n\n06:57.302 --> 07:23.312\n你這個還是要透過貸款或者是這個外銷可以營業嗎?可以解決他的問題嗎?部長我跟委員報告包括您剛才講的稻米還有我們現在的雞肉那雞肉我們的國產的自由率大概68%但是他影響的是全部產業從北到南都有所以以農業部的立場我們以糧食安全的確保是最重要的以確保農民的權益是更重要的\n\n07:23.792 --> 07:45.412\n所以在這兩個部分我想我們都會我們會捍衛我們原來的一個配額跟關稅因為這個成本實在差非常多國產的道米是50然後美國的這個成本大概30然後另外一個這個部分肌肉的部分大概100然後美國的部分大概68所以這種情況底下對本土的這個產業當然會造成很大的衝擊當然要堅守立場\n\n07:47.153 --> 07:58.398\n那另外一個部分當然就是解除限制的部分一直被對方挑毛病的部分就是馬鈴薯發芽限制的部分跟基改的這個部分這個部分有談判的空間嗎\n\n07:59.485 --> 08:18.517\n我想馬鈴薯的部分是有的因為馬鈴薯本身我們原來是直接退運那其實我們有提供他一個可以篩選的機會我們的條件還在那邊但是我們提供他篩選的部分所以這是將來我們的談判籌碼之一馬鈴薯發芽的部分他因為可能\n\n08:18.897 --> 08:29.713\n構成所謂食品安全的問題用一些科學的數字來可以做談判的討論的空間嘛這是可能性之一嘛所以限制的部分才是談判的重點啦那基改的部分呢\n\n08:30.438 --> 08:50.186\n我想基改的部分應該是在衛福部的主管以農業部來講我們是飼料那現在的飼料大概都是基改的玉米跟基改的黃豆的飼料為主但是本席還是要跟你強調就你前面的配置的部分老實講都是比較偏重於相對強勢的一個項目當中弱勢的部分請部長要予以特別的\n\n08:56.969 --> 09:19.730\n因應跟關注啦或許你底牌還沒有想要先出來但是還有一個部分是針對人的部分有時候農民個人任性的部分也是非常關鍵第一個我必須講說相關的衝擊對整個農業家庭來說相關的衝擊我是覺得這個要去面對第一個我們老農津貼的部分的排布條款在2023年本席就已經提出來了\n\n09:20.990 --> 09:46.238\n遲遲都沒有回應我本人也跟你提過好幾次至於相隔14年之久不符時宜該條要條這是第一第二農保的覆蓋率也是偏低這個部分也非常清楚也就是說對個人的這個任性的加強的部分也請這個農業部門針對於農民的相關的社會安全保障以及相關的一個福利的網絡能夠做一個慎重跟檢討\n\n09:48.028 --> 10:08.349\n好謝謝委員我想老農經驗的排布條款其實農業部有已經把相關我們的建議有提到行政院去那行政院也召開了相關的政委召開了相關的會議現在就等待其他的八大社福的一致性啦那如果有一致性的共識的時候我相信就會儘快的來提出修改\n\n10:08.769 --> 10:20.485\n還有其他的相關的這個保險的部分請部長一併去思考這個時候確實是要重新檢討竅話的時刻了好不好好我想我們會努力來做好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.371,"end":12.037,"text":"謝謝主席主席我有請經濟部的何次還有我們的農業部的陳部長"},{"start":22.82,"end":31.145,"text":"剛剛有委員提到說要發現金的部分舉日本為例子可是日本石破茂首相他也曾經確實提過要發3萬到5萬的日幣但是後來高達57%的民眾反對"},{"start":39.93,"end":54.129,"text":"所以因此目前已經擱置了我讓你知道一下齁這個法案審查的過程當中要明確的理解齁國際常識啦齁好你先請回齁好我先請部長齁部長部長就教於您齁"},{"start":55.33,"end":69.242,"text":"農業部其實在這次關稅的這個充其家進口的壓力的情況底下可以說是重中之重那在卓院長那時候就提到說跟對美的談判要以BTT為目標農業談判是重點"},{"start":71.244,"end":78.311,"text":"即便在拜登政府的時候台美21世紀的貿易協議當中農業也視為深水區這個部分問題就來了剛開始的時候我們所提出來的880億的時候農業部門所配置的金額是180億到了4100億的時候農業部門還是一樣180億"},{"start":97.988,"end":124.057,"text":"那就奇怪啦既然是重中之重呢為什麼比重從20%降為4%這是我第一個要就教於您的總額的配置的問題那很顯然不符比例嘛這是第一第二的部分就內容的配置的部分我詳細看了一下那個貴部所提出來的部分是農業貸款加碼補助強化冷鏈系統擴大海外行銷"},{"start":125.599,"end":150.013,"text":"這個不是經常性的年度計畫內容嗎為什麼把經常性的年度計畫內容當中來應對這一個比較突發性的類似暫時性的老實講我很難理解啦能不能請部長就這兩個部分一種的比例 二配置的方向二配置的方向的這種方式呢其實老實講啊"},{"start":152.768,"end":170.799,"text":"顧強不顧弱啦就相對優勢的部分你去強化它譬如講你本身產業的優勢之所以能夠出口它就是本身在農業品項當中相對是比較優勢的不論是毛豆的 蘭花等等嘛就你補助它可是相對弱勢的部分卻沒有看到耶部長"},{"start":171.639,"end":182.563,"text":"其實我跟委員報告齁您剛剛講的那個總額從原來的20到變成4%齁那最主要是母數的差異齁那之前只處理因應關稅的部分是881億裡面我們181億大概20%左右那後來變成4是因為"},{"start":187.265,"end":208.955,"text":"在整個特別預算裡面的一些內容有增加特別增加國土安全韌性的部分所以總而變成4100億但是以農業部來講我們還是以180億為主因為現在目前關稅的不確定性還在那邊我們現在在估計的話都是以10%的關稅為主第一點那第二點就是說我們現在目前因應關稅的部分其實"},{"start":209.995,"end":237.837,"text":"比較急迫的是我們要減輕我們農民的一個資金的一個需求壓力所以我們在金融支持跟後面的因應關稅我們希望它能夠持續去進去那個市場而不是去撤退不過委員講的一個很重要就是弱勢的這些產業齁其實我們在整個產業支持裡面我們特別強調跟產業有關的直接跟間接的影響"},{"start":238.638,"end":265.098,"text":"那那些後面我想我們會來處理部長我坐在的為什麼提這個東西我認為不對焦的原因你看去關稅之後第一個問題我面臨的就是一個開放市場問題即便我們對美的農業貿易的部分是屬於逆差了28億的這個部分但是他很清楚的點明了一部分也就是說我們要如何去開放開放市場還有排除這個貿易障礙的部分簡單的講我舉一個例子就是當初"},{"start":268.14,"end":282.521,"text":"在三月底的時候他就提到稻米基改食品肉品馬鈴薯的這個部分那以美日之間的談判稻米是關鍵以美韓之間的討論的部分貿易食品的限制的解除是關鍵"},{"start":283.84,"end":303.499,"text":"那央行的部分也提過要買能源軍購還有農產品按照目前的部分如果頭期首號擴大這個採購的部分可能是傷害最少的部分黃豆玉米三成七進口的部分小麥的部分佔七成九也就是這個部分我們還有沒有可能擴大採購的空間不長"},{"start":305.521,"end":328.51,"text":"我想第一個部分就是在黃小玉的部分其實我們還有擴大採購的空間大約多少那基本上從原來的12大概是黃小玉大概是12應該是9.4億左右那未來可能會擴增到12億左右因為我們的本身的飼料的品質美國會比較好所以我們會有增加的這個部分好這個部分有一些空間那我再問你"},{"start":330.171,"end":341.336,"text":"除了這個擴大的部分的部分是可以我們釋放出來但另外一個部分是我們防守的我們防守的部分舉稻米為例現在WTO下的稻米的總額的進口配額大概144,720噸大概接近滿額的情況底下將來如果稻米視為一個關鍵的地方就兩個重點"},{"start":352.361,"end":368.86,"text":"一個 你這個進口配額的部分你有沒有可能拉高 這第一第二個部分 最近的部分有沒有可能下降 這第二個我覺得這兩個是關鍵啦那我提的這兩個不是我的主張我是說 你有沒有辦法防守有沒有可能讓步這兩個是不是堅決不讓步的地方 請說"},{"start":369.813,"end":394.8,"text":"我想針對稻米因為稻米本身種到的農民大概有將近30萬本將近22萬到30萬之間所以我第一個部分不管是配額的量的部分第二個就是配額外的關稅的部分以農業部的立場我們不會讓步不會讓步好非常清楚因為其實那個就成本來說差額實在太大了這個剛剛表列當中都有還有一個肌肉的部分"},{"start":395.78,"end":414.692,"text":"你進口雞肉部分,美國進來的雞肉,我其實講好了,大概占50%啦他們不吃,只要沒有偏好雞腿啦那這個部分呢,有一個很現實的狀況這個關稅的部分,你有沒有可能有讓步的可能性那這兩個加總起來,夯不啷噹喔總共的產值是高達一千億歐"},{"start":417.302,"end":443.312,"text":"你這個還是要透過貸款或者是這個外銷可以營業嗎?可以解決他的問題嗎?部長我跟委員報告包括您剛才講的稻米還有我們現在的雞肉那雞肉我們的國產的自由率大概68%但是他影響的是全部產業從北到南都有所以以農業部的立場我們以糧食安全的確保是最重要的以確保農民的權益是更重要的"},{"start":443.792,"end":465.412,"text":"所以在這兩個部分我想我們都會我們會捍衛我們原來的一個配額跟關稅因為這個成本實在差非常多國產的道米是50然後美國的這個成本大概30然後另外一個這個部分肌肉的部分大概100然後美國的部分大概68所以這種情況底下對本土的這個產業當然會造成很大的衝擊當然要堅守立場"},{"start":467.153,"end":478.398,"text":"那另外一個部分當然就是解除限制的部分一直被對方挑毛病的部分就是馬鈴薯發芽限制的部分跟基改的這個部分這個部分有談判的空間嗎"},{"start":479.485,"end":498.517,"text":"我想馬鈴薯的部分是有的因為馬鈴薯本身我們原來是直接退運那其實我們有提供他一個可以篩選的機會我們的條件還在那邊但是我們提供他篩選的部分所以這是將來我們的談判籌碼之一馬鈴薯發芽的部分他因為可能"},{"start":498.897,"end":509.713,"text":"構成所謂食品安全的問題用一些科學的數字來可以做談判的討論的空間嘛這是可能性之一嘛所以限制的部分才是談判的重點啦那基改的部分呢"},{"start":510.438,"end":530.186,"text":"我想基改的部分應該是在衛福部的主管以農業部來講我們是飼料那現在的飼料大概都是基改的玉米跟基改的黃豆的飼料為主但是本席還是要跟你強調就你前面的配置的部分老實講都是比較偏重於相對強勢的一個項目當中弱勢的部分請部長要予以特別的"},{"start":536.969,"end":559.73,"text":"因應跟關注啦或許你底牌還沒有想要先出來但是還有一個部分是針對人的部分有時候農民個人任性的部分也是非常關鍵第一個我必須講說相關的衝擊對整個農業家庭來說相關的衝擊我是覺得這個要去面對第一個我們老農津貼的部分的排布條款在2023年本席就已經提出來了"},{"start":560.99,"end":586.238,"text":"遲遲都沒有回應 我本人也跟你提過好幾次至於相隔14年之久 不符時宜該條要條 這是第一第二 農保的覆蓋率也是偏低這個部分也非常清楚也就是說對個人的這個任性的加強的部分也請這個農業部門針對於農民的相關的社會安全保障以及相關的一個福利的網絡能夠做一個慎重跟檢討"},{"start":588.028,"end":608.349,"text":"好 謝謝委員我想老農經驗的排布條款其實農業部有已經把相關我們的建議有提到行政院去那行政院也召開了相關的 政委召開了相關的會議現在就等待其他的八大社福的一致性啦那如果有一致性的共識的時候我相信就會儘快的來提出修改"},{"start":608.769,"end":620.485,"text":"還有其他的相關的這個保險的部分請部長一併去思考這個時候確實是要重新檢討竅話的時刻了好不好好 我想我們會努力來做好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":864,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（11時6分）謝謝主席，主席，我有請經濟部的何次，還有我們農業部的陳部長。"],["主席：請何次長、陳部長。"],["何次長晉滄：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：次長好。剛剛有委員提到要發現金的時候，舉日本為例子，日本石破茂首相曾經確實提過要發三萬到五萬的日幣，但是後來高達57%的民眾反對，因此目前已經擱置了，我讓你知道一下，在法案審查的過程當中，要明確的理解國際常識。好，你先請回。","接著請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：部長，就教您，在這次關稅的衝擊加進口壓力的情況下，農業部可說是重中之重，卓院長那時候就提到，對美的談判要以BTA為目標，其中農業談判是重點，即便在拜登政府的時候，臺美21世紀的貿易協議當中，農業也視為深水區。那問題就來了，剛開始我們提出880億的時候，農業部門所配置的金額是180億，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["郭委員國文：到了4,100億的時候，農業部門還是一樣180億，那就奇怪啦，既然是重中之重，為什麼比重從20%降為4%，這是我第一個要就教於你的總額配置的問題，很顯然不符比例嘛，這是第一個。第二個就內容配置的部分，我詳細看了一下，貴部所提出來的內容是農業貸款加碼補助、強化冷鏈系統、擴大海外行銷，這不是經常性的年度計畫內容嗎？為什麼把經常性的年度計畫內容拿來應對比較突發性、類似暫時性的關稅衝擊，老實講我很難理解。能不能請部長就這兩個部分：一、總額的比例，二、配置的方向加以說明？","第二個這種方向的配置，老實講是顧強不顧弱，就是你去強化相對優勢的部分，譬如能夠出口的項目本來就具有產業優勢，它本身在農業品項當中相對是比較優勢的，不論是毛豆、蘭花等等，結果你補助他；可是相對弱勢的部分卻沒有看到政府的作為，請部長說明。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，您剛剛講的總額由原來的20%變成4%，最主要是母數的差異。之前只處理因應關稅的部分，880億裡面我們占180億，大概20%左右，後來變成4%是因為整個特別預算裡面的內容，有特別增加國土安全韌性的部分，所以總額變成4,100億。但就農業部來講還是以180億為主，因為目前尚有關稅的不確定性因素，現在做估計的話都是以10%的關稅為主，這是第一點。第二點是目前因應關稅比較急迫的部分其實是減輕農民的資金需求壓力。"],["郭委員國文：對，還要提到貸款。"],["陳部長駿季：所以關於金融支持和之後因應關稅部分，我們希望能夠持續進入市場而不是撤退。另外委員所講很重要的一個部分是關於弱勢產業，其實我們在整個產業支持面特別強調與產業有關的直接跟間接影響，這部分之後會來處理。"],["郭委員國文：部長，說實在的為什麼我認為你提這個東西會有不對焦的原因？關稅之後我們面臨的第一個問題就是開放市場的問題……"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["郭委員國文：即便我們對美的農業貿易是屬於逆差28億，但他很清楚的點明了一部分，就是我們要如何去開放市場還有排除貿易障礙。簡單的講，我舉一個例子，當初在3月底時他提到稻米、基改食品、肉品和馬鈴薯的部分。美日之間的談判關鍵是稻米，美韓之間討論的關鍵部分是貿易食品限制的解除，央行提過要買能源、軍購和農產品。依目前的情況如果投其所好擴大這部分的採購，可能會是傷害最少。黃豆、玉米占三成七，小麥占七成九，請問部長，這個部分還有沒有擴大採購的空間？"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分，黃小玉其實還有擴大採購的空間。"],["郭委員國文：黃小玉大約多少？"],["陳部長駿季：黃小玉應該是9.4億左右，未來可能會擴增到12億左右。因為飼料的品質美國會比較好，所以會有增加的部分。"],["郭委員國文：這個部分有一些空間。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["郭委員國文：我再問你，除了這個擴大的部分是我們可以釋放出來的，但另外一個部分是我們用於防守的。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["郭委員國文：我們防守的部分舉稻米為例，現在WTO下的稻米總額進口配額是14萬4,720噸，大概接近滿額的情況，將來如果視稻米為關鍵之處，有兩個重點，第一個是進口配額有沒有可能提高？第二個是稅金有沒有可能下降？我覺得這兩個是關鍵，但這兩個不是我的主張，我是說你有沒有辦法防守？有沒有可能讓步？這兩個是不是堅決不讓步？請說明。"],["陳部長駿季：針對稻米的部分，因為種稻的農民大概將近22萬到30萬之間……"],["郭委員國文：這有兩個問題。"],["陳部長駿季：所以不管是第一個部分的配額量或是第二個部分配額外的關稅，以農業部的立場，我們不會讓步。"],["郭委員國文：不會讓步！好！非常清楚。因為就成本來說差額實在太大了。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["郭委員國文：這個剛剛表列當中都有。還有雞肉的部分，從美國進口雞肉大概占50%，他們比較沒有偏好雞腿，這個部分有一個很現實的狀況，就是關稅有沒有讓步的可能性？這兩個夯不啷噹加總起來產值高達1,000億，這個部分透過貸款或者外銷可以因應嗎？可以解決問題嗎？部長，請說明。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，包括您剛才講的稻米還有雞肉，雞肉的國產自有率大概68%。"],["郭委員國文：對。"],["陳部長駿季：但是它影響的是從北到南的全部產業，以農業部的立場，確保糧食的安全是最重要的，確保農民的權益是更重要的，所以在這兩個部分我們都會捍衛……"],["郭委員國文：有沒有堅守立場、捍衛到底？"],["陳部長駿季：我們都會捍衛原來的配額跟關稅。"],["郭委員國文：因為這個成本實在差非常多……"],["陳部長駿季：是，我知道。"],["郭委員國文：國產的稻米是50，美國的成本大概30，國產的雞肉是100，美國的大概68，這種情況對本土的產業會造成很大的衝擊，當然要堅守立場。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["郭委員國文：另外一個部分就是關於解除限制。我們一直被對方挑毛病的就是有關馬鈴薯發芽限制和基改，這個部分有談判的空間嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：馬鈴薯的部分是有的，因為馬鈴薯本身原來是直接退運，其實我們有提供一個可以篩選的機會，我們的條件還在那邊，但是我們提供他可以篩選的……"],["郭委員國文：所以這是將來我們的談判籌碼之一？"],["陳部長駿季：是，我覺得這樣會比較好一點。"],["郭委員國文：因為馬鈴薯發芽的部分可能構成食品安全問題，用一些科學數字可以做為談判的空間，這是可能性之一嘛！所以限制的部分才是談判的重點。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["郭委員國文：基改的部分呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我想基改的部分應該是衛福部主管，以農業部來講飼料才是由我們主管，現在的飼料大概都是以基改的玉米和黃豆為主。"],["郭委員國文：但是本席還是要跟你強調，前面配置的部分都是偏向相對強勢的項目，弱勢的部分請部長要特別予以因應跟關注。或許你的底牌還沒有想要掀出來，但是還有一個部分是針對人的方面，農民個人韌性也是非常關鍵，我覺得對整個農業家庭所受到的相關衝擊要去面對。第一，關於老農津貼的排富條款在2023年本席就已經提出，卻遲遲沒有得到回應，本人也跟你提過好幾次，已經相隔14年之久，不符時宜的部分該調就要調。第二，農保的覆蓋率也是偏低，這個部分非常清楚，也就是關於對個人韌性的加強，請農業部門針對農民相關的社會安全保障以及相關的福利網絡，能夠慎重的檢討。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員。有關老農津貼的排富條款，農業部已經把相關的建議提送行政院，行政院的政委也召開了相關的會議，現在在等待八大社福的一致性，如果八大社福有一致性的共識就會儘快提出修改，八大福利要有一致性……"],["郭委員國文：還有其他相關的保險部分請部長一併思考，這確實是要重新檢討及強化的時刻了。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會努力來做。"],["郭委員國文：好。謝謝部長。謝謝主席。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，現在請陳亭妃委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-19,20-1","speakers":["謝衣鳯","賴士葆","張啓楷","林岱樺","邱議瑩","林德福","張嘉郡","郭國文","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","李坤城","陳俊宇","林思銘","鄭正鈐","黃珊珊","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","陳超明","邱志偉","羅明才","楊瓊瓔","葉元之","王正旭","陳玉珍","邱鎮軍","顏寬恒","翁曉玲","蘇清泉","王美惠","許宇甄","牛煦庭"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2025-05-14"],"gazette_id":"1144901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案；\n二、本院國民黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費韌性特別條例草案」案；三、\n本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢衝擊強化經濟社會韌性特別條例草案」案；四、本院委\n員蔡易餘等18人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案；五、本院\n委員王美惠等17人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1144901_00002"}}}