{"id":161389,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161389","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f2e91488ef6971babe2b3090d511492a35373469a84e2c37ba5a36b7b1a50667865746eaf850cdb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"13:52:03 - 14:02:03","影片長度":"00:10:00","會議時間":"2025-05-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。\n二、本院國民黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費韌性特別條例草案」案。\n三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢衝擊強化經濟社會韌性特別條例草案」案。\n四、本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。\n五、本院委員王美惠等17人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。\n（第一案如未獲議事處來函則不予審查，第二至第五案業經各黨團簽署不復議同意書。）（詢答）\n【5月14日及5月15日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-14","start_time":"2025-05-14T13:52:03+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-14T14:02:03+08:00","duration":600,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[19,20],"id":"聯席會議-11-3-19,20-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"161389","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161389","tool":"pyannote","id":"161389-pyannote"},"job_id":"5bKRct2EZmF8jdRA","queued_at":"2025-05-14 14:48:20","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2025-05-14 14:48:40","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161389","target":null},{"time":"2025-05-14 14:48:41","msg":"already downloaded","target":"/home/conda/test/whisper-api-data/tmp/lyivod-clip-161389.wav"},{"time":"2025-05-14 14:48:41","msg":"running pyannote","target":null},{"time":"2025-05-14 14:48:55","msg":"status: done","target":null}],"result":{"result":[[12.974093750000002,13.716593750000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[14.087843750000001,15.04971875,"SPEAKER_00"],[15.79221875,17.64846875,"SPEAKER_00"],[17.69909375,18.30659375,"SPEAKER_01"],[18.44159375,19.06596875,"SPEAKER_00"],[19.555343750000002,20.04471875,"SPEAKER_01"],[25.17471875,25.74846875,"SPEAKER_01"],[26.06909375,27.08159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[27.13221875,29.511593750000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[31.82346875,33.22409375,"SPEAKER_00"],[33.44346875,35.56971875,"SPEAKER_00"],[36.649718750000005,38.15159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[38.978468750000005,39.602843750000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[40.31159375,41.070968750000006,"SPEAKER_00"],[41.47596875,44.51346875,"SPEAKER_00"],[45.01971875,46.82534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[47.44971875,48.580343750000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[49.204718750000005,50.31846875,"SPEAKER_00"],[51.07784375,52.76534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[53.65971875,54.773468750000006,"SPEAKER_00"],[55.38096875,57.237218750000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[58.283468750000004,59.734718750000006,"SPEAKER_00"],[60.42659375,61.99596875,"SPEAKER_00"],[62.83971875,64.25721875,"SPEAKER_00"],[64.54409375,65.55659375,"SPEAKER_00"],[66.24846875,68.10471875,"SPEAKER_00"],[69.28596875000001,69.69096875000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[70.06221875,70.63596875,"SPEAKER_00"],[71.05784375,74.71971875,"SPEAKER_00"],[75.54659375,78.11159375000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[78.75284375000001,79.91721875,"SPEAKER_00"],[80.35596875,80.67659375000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[80.69346875000001,84.16971875,"SPEAKER_00"],[84.70971875000001,84.92909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[85.65471875,86.70096875,"SPEAKER_00"],[87.67971875,88.16909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[88.86096875000001,89.51909375000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[90.26159375,90.53159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[91.30784375,92.70846875000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[93.29909375000001,94.27784375,"SPEAKER_00"],[94.96971875000001,96.89346875000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[97.50096875000001,99.72846875,"SPEAKER_00"],[101.17971875,102.24284375,"SPEAKER_00"],[102.76596875000001,104.52096875000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[105.11159375000001,106.20846875000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[106.78221875000001,108.63846875,"SPEAKER_00"],[109.26284375,110.22471875000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[111.35534375,112.63784375,"SPEAKER_00"],[113.46471875,114.88221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[115.05096875000001,115.37159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[115.94534375,117.04221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[117.48096875,119.01659375000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[119.69159375000001,121.91909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[122.72909375,124.46721875,"SPEAKER_00"],[124.65284375,125.05784375,"SPEAKER_00"],[125.39534375000001,131.82471875000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[132.19596875000002,133.44471875000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[134.52471875,136.68471875,"SPEAKER_00"],[137.51159375,138.62534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[138.79409375,139.04721875,"SPEAKER_00"],[139.97534375,140.32971875,"SPEAKER_01"],[142.97909375,143.89034375,"SPEAKER_00"],[143.97471875000002,144.54846875,"SPEAKER_00"],[144.93659375000001,145.29096875000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[145.89846875,147.41721875000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[147.80534375000002,149.39159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[150.52221875,151.01159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[151.58534375000002,153.44159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[154.53846875000002,156.12471875,"SPEAKER_00"],[156.73221875000002,157.71096875,"SPEAKER_00"],[158.41971875000002,159.14534375000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[159.61784375000002,160.54596875000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[161.50784375,164.14034375,"SPEAKER_00"],[164.81534375,167.00909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[167.49846875,169.40534375000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[170.04659375,170.35034375,"SPEAKER_00"],[171.09284375000001,173.40471875,"SPEAKER_00"],[174.28221875,174.53534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[174.75471875000002,177.37034375000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[178.12971875000002,178.39971875,"SPEAKER_00"],[180.22221875000002,180.52596875,"SPEAKER_00"],[181.42034375,183.04034375,"SPEAKER_00"],[183.27659375000002,184.74471875,"SPEAKER_00"],[185.31846875000002,189.35159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[189.72284375,192.49034375000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[193.13159375,194.71784375000001,"SPEAKER_00"],[195.37596875,196.08471875,"SPEAKER_00"],[196.65846875000003,199.12221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[199.61159375000003,200.47221875000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[201.01221875000002,203.71221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[204.79221875000002,206.54721875,"SPEAKER_00"],[206.95221875000001,208.94346875000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[209.55096875,211.40721875000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[212.06534375,213.88784375,"SPEAKER_00"],[214.29284375,216.75659375,"SPEAKER_00"],[216.90846875000003,218.89971875,"SPEAKER_00"],[219.43971875000003,220.78971875000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[221.16096875000002,223.35471875000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[223.96221875,227.99534375000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[228.99096875,231.15096875,"SPEAKER_00"],[231.45471875,234.07034375,"SPEAKER_00"],[236.77034375000002,237.29346875000002,"SPEAKER_00"],[237.83346875,243.31784375,"SPEAKER_00"],[243.67221875,245.86596875,"SPEAKER_00"],[246.27096875,248.07659375000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[250.37159375000002,251.46846875000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[252.21096875,253.79721875,"SPEAKER_00"],[254.77596875,255.90659375,"SPEAKER_00"],[256.48034375000003,257.45909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[258.13409375000003,258.87659375000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[259.93971875,263.38221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[264.52971875000003,270.41909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[270.94221875,273.03471875,"SPEAKER_00"],[274.16534375000003,275.81909375000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[276.47721875,276.78096875,"SPEAKER_00"],[276.84846875,279.22784375000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[280.98284375000003,283.81784375,"SPEAKER_00"],[284.34096875,285.30284375,"SPEAKER_00"],[286.31534375,288.52596875,"SPEAKER_00"],[288.91409375,290.88846875,"SPEAKER_00"],[291.59721875,292.39034375,"SPEAKER_00"],[292.64346875,293.03159375,"SPEAKER_01"],[293.06534375,293.87534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[294.87096875000003,295.15784375000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[295.51221875000005,296.94659375000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[298.12784375,303.61221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[304.15221875000003,306.44721875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[307.98284375000003,308.42159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[308.53971875,310.36221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[311.37471875,312.45471875000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[313.39971875000003,313.70346875,"SPEAKER_00"],[314.59784375000004,316.30221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[317.53409375,319.74471875,"SPEAKER_00"],[320.80784375,322.24221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[323.47409375,324.03096875,"SPEAKER_00"],[325.61721875,326.07284375,"SPEAKER_00"],[326.89971875000003,327.35534375000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[328.55346875000004,330.86534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[332.35034375000004,333.09284375000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[333.39659375,334.81409375000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[335.45534375,336.85596875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[337.59846875,339.53909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[340.34909375,341.49659375000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[342.82971875000004,343.60596875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[345.07409375000003,345.98534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[346.42409375,347.67284375,"SPEAKER_00"],[348.34784375000004,349.07346875,"SPEAKER_00"],[349.66409375,351.97596875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[352.54971875,353.52846875,"SPEAKER_00"],[354.11909375000005,355.84034375000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[356.34659375,358.92846875000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[359.51909375,363.65346875,"SPEAKER_00"],[365.13846875,365.39159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[365.59409375,366.37034375,"SPEAKER_00"],[368.05784375,368.85096875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[369.50909375000003,372.22596875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[372.41159375,377.30534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[377.54159375,378.55409375000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[379.43159375000005,380.05596875000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[380.12346875000003,380.17409375,"SPEAKER_00"],[380.68034375,384.71346875,"SPEAKER_00"],[385.96221875000003,389.40471875000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[389.82659375000003,390.85596875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[391.66596875000005,393.85971875,"SPEAKER_00"],[394.58534375000005,396.45846875,"SPEAKER_00"],[396.84659375,397.30221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[397.72409375,400.15409375,"SPEAKER_00"],[400.93034375,401.97659375,"SPEAKER_00"],[402.43221875,405.40221875000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[406.70159375000003,410.05971875,"SPEAKER_00"],[410.48159375,413.11409375000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[413.63721875000005,415.12221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[415.69596875,417.26534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[417.75471875000005,422.58096875,"SPEAKER_00"],[423.22221875,425.14596875,"SPEAKER_00"],[425.48346875000004,429.21284375000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[429.82034375,433.53284375000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[434.86596875000004,439.84409375,"SPEAKER_00"],[441.26159375000003,441.54846875000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[442.37534375,442.99971875000006,"SPEAKER_00"],[443.47221875,444.78846875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[445.64909375,450.86346875000004,"SPEAKER_00"],[451.72409375,452.66909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[453.52971875000003,455.30159375000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[455.68971875000005,459.04784375,"SPEAKER_00"],[459.65534375000004,463.28346875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[463.60409375,464.24534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[465.42659375000005,467.18159375000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[467.85659375000006,468.41346875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[469.69596875,470.32034375,"SPEAKER_00"],[470.80971875000006,474.04971875,"SPEAKER_00"],[474.64034375000006,476.54721875,"SPEAKER_00"],[477.42471875,478.11659375000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[479.95596875,480.88409375000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[481.50846875,483.65159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[485.86221875,494.06346875,"SPEAKER_00"],[494.90721875,496.98284375000003,"SPEAKER_00"],[498.46784375000004,502.23096875000005,"SPEAKER_00"],[502.87221875000006,503.96909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[504.35721875,506.71971875,"SPEAKER_00"],[507.25971875000005,508.28909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[508.74471875000006,509.13284375,"SPEAKER_00"],[509.95971875000004,514.43159375,"SPEAKER_00"],[514.9040937500001,515.56221875,"SPEAKER_00"],[516.38909375,517.9922187500001,"SPEAKER_00"],[518.5490937500001,520.20284375,"SPEAKER_00"],[520.75971875,522.14346875,"SPEAKER_00"],[522.24471875,523.15596875,"SPEAKER_00"],[524.35409375,524.65784375,"SPEAKER_00"],[524.9109687499999,527.22284375,"SPEAKER_00"],[527.7122187500001,529.0959687500001,"SPEAKER_00"],[529.33221875,530.0915937500001,"SPEAKER_00"],[530.1928437500001,531.4753437500001,"SPEAKER_00"],[532.1672187500001,533.07846875,"SPEAKER_00"],[533.65221875,534.5972187500001,"SPEAKER_00"],[535.0359687499999,535.5590937500001,"SPEAKER_00"],[536.0990937500001,536.90909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[538.34346875,538.98471875,"SPEAKER_00"],[540.80721875,543.52409375,"SPEAKER_00"],[545.36346875,546.89909375,"SPEAKER_00"],[547.55721875,548.9240937500001,"SPEAKER_00"],[549.1772187500001,550.1728437500001,"SPEAKER_00"],[550.69596875,555.64034375,"SPEAKER_00"],[556.0790937500001,559.2009687500001,"SPEAKER_00"],[556.1297187499999,556.16346875,"SPEAKER_01"],[556.18034375,556.87221875,"SPEAKER_01"],[559.70721875,570.0347187500001,"SPEAKER_01"],[569.7478437500001,573.59534375,"SPEAKER_00"],[571.24971875,573.5447187500001,"SPEAKER_01"],[573.86534375,589.91346875,"SPEAKER_01"],[590.18346875,599.31284375,"SPEAKER_00"]]}},"whisperx":{"name":"ronny","tool":"whisperx","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161389","tool":"whisperx","id":"161389-whisperx","init_prompt":""},"job_id":"jMcvaJp7kQ56Lexi","queued_at":"2025-05-14 14:48:21","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2025-05-14 14:48:55","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161389","target":null},{"time":"2025-05-14 14:48:56","msg":"already downloaded","target":"/home/conda/test/whisper-api-data/tmp/lyivod-clip-161389.wav"},{"time":"2025-05-14 14:48:56","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3","target":null},{"time":"2025-05-14 14:49:03","msg":"merging result","target":null},{"time":"2025-05-14 14:49:03","msg":"status: done","target":null}],"result":{"segments":[]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1435,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（13時52分）主席，有請經濟部次長、主計長。"],["主席：請何次長、主計長。"],["何次長晉滄：委員好。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主計長及次長好。今天特別條例、特別預算，事實上，我們看經濟部到行政院院會的報告裡面列了這麼多項，也就是說從原來一開始的880億元，我們當初也質詢國發會主委和經濟部部長880億元是不是足夠，而且當初我也特別強調，就勞工的部分，當初你們只有講產業，沒有談到勞工，我說勞工一定受影響，另外農業的部分也是一樣，農民會受到影響，但是我們看整個4,100億元裡面，你們特別提到930億元是支持產業的部分、安定就業的部分，不到四分之一，你當這個特別條例的主管機關其實很不適合，如果要這麼廣的話，應該是要由國發會，疫後的特別條例就是國發會，所以主管機關的部分是不是跟其他部會協調一下，還是回到國發會，這是一個需要去思考的部分、需要去討論的部分。整個這樣的情形之下，主計長，不到四分之一是跟關稅有關，所以這樣的情形下的特別條例，預算法第八十三條規定得很清楚，剛才黃珊珊委員也提到，所以這個部分需要主計總處去思考要怎麼符合預算法，你現在已經提了，本席也有提案，這禮拜五會付委，我的法案名稱是「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會韌性及促進全民消費特別條例」，這裡面有特別提到支持勞工安定就業，也有提到補助農民，農業一定跟農民直接有關係啊！所以這個部分也特別提到。我特別增加了挹注原住民族綜合發展基金，等下會跟主計長討論。照顧弱勢族群我把它列舉出來，低收入戶、中低收入戶、身心障礙者及原住民等弱勢族群。勞動部的報告有提到支持勞工安定就業，這是非常好的，列了這六項都是特別需要的。我們看挹注勞保基金總共100億元，但是從勞工保險基金來看，累存餘額截至114年3月達1兆1,255億元，現在要挹注100億元，疫後特別條例也有挹注。挹注全民健康保險基金，在衛福部的報告沒有寫多少錢，我問了說是200億元，是嗎，主計長？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：全民健康保險基金到114年3月底，健保財務收支累計結餘1,668億元。我現在就要為原住民族綜合發展基金來發聲，從疫後特別條例挹注了勞保、健保，這次特別條例又挹注健保、勞保，我都沒有反對，但是更需要的原住民族綜合發展基金，我也跟你前任的主計長質詢過很多次，原住民族基本法第十八條規定，為了辦理經濟發展的業務，設原住民族綜合發展基金，還沒有原基法之前，還有臺灣省政府，我那時候在當副局長，就開始設置，以前叫原住民族經濟事業發展基金，現在改為原住民族綜合發展基金，是為了發展經濟之用。所以原住民族綜合發展基金的預算書特別寫：本基金為預算法第四條第一項第二款第四目之特種基金，凡付出仍可收回，就像貸款，本金可以收回來，還有加上利息，這就是綜合發展基金最主要的目的。我們看原住民族綜合發展基金這100億元是當時的省議員包括立法委員的目標，原住民族綜合發展基金當時的目標是100億元，所以每年編列公務預算來撥到基金裡面，到105年12月31日的決算數，淨值是117億7,081萬1,000元，因為違法挪用原住民族綜合發展基金作為禁伐補償之用，禁伐補償撥出去是不會回來的，付出去是收不回來的，是違反預算法，也違反了原基法第十八條，從106年開始，總共挪用累積53億9,954萬6,000元這麼多，所以，挪用的金額53億應該要還。你看原住民族綜合發展基金到112年12月31號的決算數累積短絀六十三億八千多萬，到114年12月31號的預計數，這是預算書寫的，行政院通過送到立法院的預算書，累積短絀負67億6,623萬7,000元。所以立法院曾經在第9屆第2會期第17次會議特別提到違法挪用的部分要發還，行政院應撥還到綜合發展基金，所以本席這一次提的特別條例就是要返還給原住民族綜合發展基金。健保都沒有虧，也沒有什麼挪用的問題，勞保基金也沒有挪用的問題，所以這個部分請主計長可以支持嗎？主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：事實上，我們每一年都有撥補這個基金，有固定撥補，它不夠的部分，我們有撥補讓它能夠維持、能夠運行，是這樣子。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：沒有撥補！這個我們在逐條……"],["陳主計長淑姿：每一年都有持續在撥補。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：時間的關係……"],["陳主計長淑姿：只是說，因為以往是譬如說撥補到300億，撥補完之後、再來用完了之後，我們每一年就是直接照它的需求進行撥補，而不是說撥補一定的金額，是這樣子！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這樣啦，這個預算數都清清楚楚，逐條討論的時候，希望主計總處能夠支持。以上，謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員超明代）：現在請謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-19,20-1","speakers":["謝衣鳯","賴士葆","張啓楷","林岱樺","邱議瑩","林德福","張嘉郡","郭國文","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","李坤城","陳俊宇","林思銘","鄭正鈐","黃珊珊","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","陳超明","邱志偉","羅明才","楊瓊瓔","葉元之","王正旭","陳玉珍","邱鎮軍","顏寬恒","翁曉玲","蘇清泉","王美惠","許宇甄","牛煦庭"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2025-05-14"],"gazette_id":"1144901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案；\n二、本院國民黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費韌性特別條例草案」案；三、\n本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢衝擊強化經濟社會韌性特別條例草案」案；四、本院委\n員蔡易餘等18人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案；五、本院\n委員王美惠等17人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1144901_00002"}}}