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\"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,350 --> 00:00:14,672\n馬上請主席長有請主席長委員好主席長好我們那個新北市\n\n2\n00:00:16,693 --> 00:00:35,618\n本來應該有一般性的補助款主委總署1月已經核定了但是在4月的時候忽然修改方式本來1到6月是共會撥55.09億可是4月份修改之後呢7到12月只編了4.68億\n\n3\n00:00:39,699 --> 00:00:58,635\n平均一個月只給7793萬短撥了51.68億對於地方的財政以及地方要做的業務造成極大的影響我想請問一下主計長忽然間這個四月份修改方式事先有跟地方政府溝通嗎\n\n4\n00:00:59,858 --> 00:01:16,329\n沒有這個部分主要是因為我們被刪減了631事先有沒有跟地方政府溝通我們一會通知他你根本沒有溝通嘛你一直溝文下去你沒有在管地方政府死活我跟你講這些原本的一般性補助款\n\n5\n00:01:16,989 --> 00:01:40,660\n是要用在比如說低收入家庭兒童跟學生的一些補助還有中低收入戶的老人津貼的一些相關的業務還包括教育的部分學生的營養午餐基本的設備等等結果因為哇主計總署在完全沒有跟地方政府溝通情況之下直接一個公文過去就告訴地方政府我們要掃編51.68億給你掃給你51.68億\n\n6\n00:01:48,254 --> 00:01:56,974\n現在中央政府都這麼傲慢都沒有在管地方政府死活請問一下忽然間在沒有溝通情況之下就做了這樣一個決定的原因是什麼\n\n7\n00:01:57,588 --> 00:02:20,923\n我們主要是針對爭域財源的部分才暫緩所以爭域財源的部分對地方影響比較少沒有這是你講的我的了解就不是這樣對但是他如果說這個部分稅出方面他是沒有影響他影響的是稅入這個部分如果說他本身這個在調度方面有問題他就是可以拒絕管\n\n8\n00:02:21,403 --> 00:02:47,347\n對影響稅率當然就是會影響有沒有錢可以給人家啊他就變成要去銀行借錢啊會增加利息的支出啊主委長請問一下你現在短波的這個是一般性補助款對不對是那理由是剛剛聽你講說是因為你認為總預算還要釋憲嘛是不是在等到釋憲結果出來之前所以你做了這樣的調整嘛沒錯吧\n\n9\n00:02:48,134 --> 00:03:06,066\n不是我們是現在通案刪減他939嘛那我們依項目減減了313的話通案刪減有刪減到一般性補助款嗎他項目的部分按照道理我們是可以沒有嘛今天我去看一般性補助款你們總共變多少2501億1279萬\n\n10\n00:03:13,294 --> 00:03:39,881\n這全部都照列啊沒有人去刪沒有人去動所以你都是可以動資的啊但是他636他要我們自己刪減636你要那通刪那你就是主席長你就可以分配啊請問你這636你要去刪到一般性補助款嗎你有要嗎我們要刪到一般性補助款你自己有沒有要去動到這一般性補助款嗎我們有要刪啊那準備你要刪多少\n\n11\n00:03:41,042 --> 00:03:53,187\n這個部分我們要簽你現在如果你認為說是因為通山部分影響到你的話那你應該有個負案嘛比如說你已經計劃要去通山一般性補助款多少了嗎多少\n\n12\n00:03:55,568 --> 00:04:12,001\n多少嘛沒關係你就回答嘛你這應該有數字嘛多少只是說你現在有一個負案是通山多少但是你覺得你要透過四線的救濟手段嘛然後等到救濟手段沒有出來之前你要調節嘛我現在就問你你原本通山你要三一半系補助款多少\n\n13\n00:04:12,540 --> 00:04:17,245\n因為我們本來刪2076嘛要刪到一般性補助款2076不是我們本來是刪2076那裡面含6362076單位是什麼議員一般性補助款總共2501億然後你要刪2076\n\n14\n00:04:28,837 --> 00:04:54,407\n不是我是說中央補助的中央政府的部分今年被刪減2076不要扯別的我們現在我已經跟你談到項目了嘛不要再扯別的了嘛是那我現在就在想2076裡面有939是通案刪減那通案刪減它指定項目的部分就是303沒有指定項目的就是636那所以這636的部分我們當初一直\n\n15\n00:04:56,027 --> 00:05:22,077\n凍結的部分一直沒有送是因為說到底要不要刪這些你不要答非所問我現在就問說你636你要通刪你有要通刪到一般性補助款嗎有嗎多少原則上是全額啦你要全額把2501億照列把它刪掉你總共636你要刪2501億3636所以你636全部都是要刪一般性補助款為什麼\n\n16\n00:05:23,148 --> 00:05:41,043\n因為我們因為這個錢是要給地方的所以你要把因為有被要求通山636所以你就要把一般性補助款全部當作這636喔不是也太誇張了吧所以中央完全沒有在理地方喔地方的需求中央完全不考慮喔\n\n17\n00:05:42,185 --> 00:05:54,646\n有人叫你通山全部刪一般性補助款嗎這個太扯了啦我看所有的立法委員都來自於地方聽到主計總署這樣子講通山就是要把一般性補助款全部刪掉有道理嗎\n\n18\n00:05:56,377 --> 00:06:22,695\n你就中央303按比例啊有說針對這一項要全部通刪的嗎這有道理嗎因為我們中央已經刪了1439沒關係主席長大家都看到了這一些錢都是比如說我們地方我今天也不是為了新北市講而已啦全台灣那麼多縣市都受影響啦那全台灣的縣市民眾都在看啦中央的態度就是因為有被通刪所以我全部都是要把你地方錢砍掉你剛剛的態度就是這樣啦好謝謝葉委員謝謝主席長\n\n19\n00:06:26,874 --> 00:06:28,347\n接下來有請王委員事監質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2350\t14672\t馬上請主席長有請主席長委員好主席長好我們那個新北市\n16693\t35618\t本來應該有一般性的補助款主委總署1月已經核定了但是在4月的時候忽然修改方式本來1到6月是共會撥55.09億可是4月份修改之後呢7到12月只編了4.68億\n39699\t58635\t平均一個月只給7793萬 短撥了51.68億對於地方的財政以及地方要做的業務造成極大的影響我想請問一下主計長忽然間這個四月份修改方式事先有跟地方政府溝通嗎\n59858\t76329\t沒有 這個部分主要是因為我們被刪減了631事先有沒有跟地方政府溝通我們一會通知他你根本沒有溝通嘛你一直溝文下去你沒有在管地方政府死活我跟你講這些原本的一般性補助款\n76989\t100660\t是要用在比如說低收入家庭兒童跟學生的一些補助還有中低收入戶的老人津貼的一些相關的業務還包括教育的部分學生的營養午餐基本的設備等等結果因為哇 主計總署在完全沒有跟地方政府溝通情況之下直接一個公文過去就告訴地方政府我們要掃編51.68億給你 掃給你51.68億\n108254\t116974\t現在中央政府都這麼傲慢都沒有在管地方政府死活請問一下忽然間在沒有溝通情況之下就做了這樣一個決定的原因是什麼\n117588\t140923\t我們主要是針對爭域財源的部分才暫緩所以爭域財源的部分對地方影響比較少沒有這是你講的我的了解就不是這樣對但是他如果說這個部分稅出方面他是沒有影響他影響的是稅入這個部分如果說他本身這個在調度方面有問題他就是可以拒絕管\n141403\t167347\t對 影響稅率當然就是會影響有沒有錢可以給人家啊他就變成要去銀行借錢啊會增加利息的支出啊主委長 請問一下你現在短波的這個是一般性補助款對不對是那理由是剛剛聽你講說是因為你認為總預算還要釋憲嘛是不是 在等到釋憲結果出來之前所以你做了這樣的調整嘛 沒錯吧\n168134\t186066\t不是 我們是現在通案刪減他939嘛那我們依項目減 減了313的話通案刪減有刪減到一般性補助款嗎他項目的部分 按照道理我們是可以沒有嘛 今天我去看一般性補助款你們總共變多少2501億1279萬\n193294\t219881\t這全部都照列啊沒有人去刪沒有人去動所以你都是可以動資的啊但是他636他要我們自己刪減636你要那通刪那你就是主席長你就可以分配啊請問你這636你要去刪到一般性補助款嗎你有要嗎我們要刪到一般性補助款你自己有沒有要去動到這一般性補助款嗎我們有要刪啊那準備你要刪多少\n221042\t233187\t這個部分我們要簽你現在如果你認為說是因為通山部分影響到你的話那你應該有個負案嘛比如說你已經計劃要去通山一般性補助款多少了嗎多少\n235568\t252001\t多少嘛 沒關係你就回答嘛你這應該有數字嘛 多少只是說你現在有一個負案是通山多少但是你覺得你要透過四線的救濟手段嘛然後等到救濟手段沒有出來之前你要調節嘛我現在就問你你原本通山你要三一半系補助款多少\n252540\t257245\t因為我們本來刪2076嘛要刪到一般性補助款2076不是我們本來是刪2076那裡面含6362076單位是什麼議員一般性補助款總共2501億然後你要刪2076\n268837\t294407\t不是 我是說中央補助的 中央政府的部分今年被刪減2076不要扯別的 我們現在 我已經跟你談到項目了嘛 不要再扯別的了嘛是 那我現在就在想2076裡面有939是通案刪減那通案刪減它指定項目的部分就是303沒有指定項目的就是636那所以這636的部分 我們當初一直\n296027\t322077\t凍結的部分一直沒有送是因為說到底要不要刪這些你不要答非所問我現在就問說你636你要通刪你有要通刪到一般性補助款嗎有嗎多少原則上是全額啦你要全額把2501億照列把它刪掉你總共636你要刪2501億3636所以你636全部都是要刪一般性補助款為什麼\n323148\t341043\t因為我們因為這個錢是要給地方的所以你要把因為有被要求通山636所以你就要把一般性補助款全部當作這636喔不是也太誇張了吧所以中央完全沒有在理地方喔地方的需求中央完全不考慮喔\n342185\t354646\t有人叫你通山全部刪一般性補助款嗎這個太扯了啦我看所有的立法委員都來自於地方聽到主計總署這樣子講通山就是要把一般性補助款全部刪掉有道理嗎\n356377\t382695\t你就中央303按比例啊有說針對這一項要全部通刪的嗎這有道理嗎因為我們中央已經刪了1439沒關係主席長大家都看到了這一些錢都是比如說我們地方我今天也不是為了新北市講而已啦全台灣那麼多縣市都受影響啦那全台灣的縣市民眾都在看啦中央的態度就是因為有被通刪所以我全部都是要把你地方錢砍掉你剛剛的態度就是這樣啦好 謝謝葉委員 謝謝主席長\n386874\t388347\t接下來有請王委員事監質詢\n","txt":"馬上請主席長有請主席長委員好主席長好我們那個新北市\n本來應該有一般性的補助款主委總署1月已經核定了但是在4月的時候忽然修改方式本來1到6月是共會撥55.09億可是4月份修改之後呢7到12月只編了4.68億\n平均一個月只給7793萬 短撥了51.68億對於地方的財政以及地方要做的業務造成極大的影響我想請問一下主計長忽然間這個四月份修改方式事先有跟地方政府溝通嗎\n沒有 這個部分主要是因為我們被刪減了631事先有沒有跟地方政府溝通我們一會通知他你根本沒有溝通嘛你一直溝文下去你沒有在管地方政府死活我跟你講這些原本的一般性補助款\n是要用在比如說低收入家庭兒童跟學生的一些補助還有中低收入戶的老人津貼的一些相關的業務還包括教育的部分學生的營養午餐基本的設備等等結果因為哇 主計總署在完全沒有跟地方政府溝通情況之下直接一個公文過去就告訴地方政府我們要掃編51.68億給你 掃給你51.68億\n現在中央政府都這麼傲慢都沒有在管地方政府死活請問一下忽然間在沒有溝通情況之下就做了這樣一個決定的原因是什麼\n我們主要是針對爭域財源的部分才暫緩所以爭域財源的部分對地方影響比較少沒有這是你講的我的了解就不是這樣對但是他如果說這個部分稅出方面他是沒有影響他影響的是稅入這個部分如果說他本身這個在調度方面有問題他就是可以拒絕管\n對 影響稅率當然就是會影響有沒有錢可以給人家啊他就變成要去銀行借錢啊會增加利息的支出啊主委長 請問一下你現在短波的這個是一般性補助款對不對是那理由是剛剛聽你講說是因為你認為總預算還要釋憲嘛是不是 在等到釋憲結果出來之前所以你做了這樣的調整嘛 沒錯吧\n不是 我們是現在通案刪減他939嘛那我們依項目減 減了313的話通案刪減有刪減到一般性補助款嗎他項目的部分 按照道理我們是可以沒有嘛 今天我去看一般性補助款你們總共變多少2501億1279萬\n這全部都照列啊沒有人去刪沒有人去動所以你都是可以動資的啊但是他636他要我們自己刪減636你要那通刪那你就是主席長你就可以分配啊請問你這636你要去刪到一般性補助款嗎你有要嗎我們要刪到一般性補助款你自己有沒有要去動到這一般性補助款嗎我們有要刪啊那準備你要刪多少\n這個部分我們要簽你現在如果你認為說是因為通山部分影響到你的話那你應該有個負案嘛比如說你已經計劃要去通山一般性補助款多少了嗎多少\n多少嘛 沒關係你就回答嘛你這應該有數字嘛 多少只是說你現在有一個負案是通山多少但是你覺得你要透過四線的救濟手段嘛然後等到救濟手段沒有出來之前你要調節嘛我現在就問你你原本通山你要三一半系補助款多少\n因為我們本來刪2076嘛要刪到一般性補助款2076不是我們本來是刪2076那裡面含6362076單位是什麼議員一般性補助款總共2501億然後你要刪2076\n不是 我是說中央補助的 中央政府的部分今年被刪減2076不要扯別的 我們現在 我已經跟你談到項目了嘛 不要再扯別的了嘛是 那我現在就在想2076裡面有939是通案刪減那通案刪減它指定項目的部分就是303沒有指定項目的就是636那所以這636的部分 我們當初一直\n凍結的部分一直沒有送是因為說到底要不要刪這些你不要答非所問我現在就問說你636你要通刪你有要通刪到一般性補助款嗎有嗎多少原則上是全額啦你要全額把2501億照列把它刪掉你總共636你要刪2501億3636所以你636全部都是要刪一般性補助款為什麼\n因為我們因為這個錢是要給地方的所以你要把因為有被要求通山636所以你就要把一般性補助款全部當作這636喔不是也太誇張了吧所以中央完全沒有在理地方喔地方的需求中央完全不考慮喔\n有人叫你通山全部刪一般性補助款嗎這個太扯了啦我看所有的立法委員都來自於地方聽到主計總署這樣子講通山就是要把一般性補助款全部刪掉有道理嗎\n你就中央303按比例啊有說針對這一項要全部通刪的嗎這有道理嗎因為我們中央已經刪了1439沒關係主席長大家都看到了這一些錢都是比如說我們地方我今天也不是為了新北市講而已啦全台灣那麼多縣市都受影響啦那全台灣的縣市民眾都在看啦中央的態度就是因為有被通刪所以我全部都是要把你地方錢砍掉你剛剛的態度就是這樣啦好 謝謝葉委員 謝謝主席長\n接下來有請王委員事監質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.350 --> 00:14.672\n馬上請主席長有請主席長委員好主席長好我們那個新北市\n\n00:16.693 --> 00:35.618\n本來應該有一般性的補助款主委總署1月已經核定了但是在4月的時候忽然修改方式本來1到6月是共會撥55.09億可是4月份修改之後呢7到12月只編了4.68億\n\n00:39.699 --> 00:58.635\n平均一個月只給7793萬短撥了51.68億對於地方的財政以及地方要做的業務造成極大的影響我想請問一下主計長忽然間這個四月份修改方式事先有跟地方政府溝通嗎\n\n00:59.858 --> 01:16.329\n沒有這個部分主要是因為我們被刪減了631事先有沒有跟地方政府溝通我們一會通知他你根本沒有溝通嘛你一直溝文下去你沒有在管地方政府死活我跟你講這些原本的一般性補助款\n\n01:16.989 --> 01:40.660\n是要用在比如說低收入家庭兒童跟學生的一些補助還有中低收入戶的老人津貼的一些相關的業務還包括教育的部分學生的營養午餐基本的設備等等結果因為哇主計總署在完全沒有跟地方政府溝通情況之下直接一個公文過去就告訴地方政府我們要掃編51.68億給你掃給你51.68億\n\n01:48.254 --> 01:56.974\n現在中央政府都這麼傲慢都沒有在管地方政府死活請問一下忽然間在沒有溝通情況之下就做了這樣一個決定的原因是什麼\n\n01:57.588 --> 02:20.923\n我們主要是針對爭域財源的部分才暫緩所以爭域財源的部分對地方影響比較少沒有這是你講的我的了解就不是這樣對但是他如果說這個部分稅出方面他是沒有影響他影響的是稅入這個部分如果說他本身這個在調度方面有問題他就是可以拒絕管\n\n02:21.403 --> 02:47.347\n對影響稅率當然就是會影響有沒有錢可以給人家啊他就變成要去銀行借錢啊會增加利息的支出啊主委長請問一下你現在短波的這個是一般性補助款對不對是那理由是剛剛聽你講說是因為你認為總預算還要釋憲嘛是不是在等到釋憲結果出來之前所以你做了這樣的調整嘛沒錯吧\n\n02:48.134 --> 03:06.066\n不是我們是現在通案刪減他939嘛那我們依項目減減了313的話通案刪減有刪減到一般性補助款嗎他項目的部分按照道理我們是可以沒有嘛今天我去看一般性補助款你們總共變多少2501億1279萬\n\n03:13.294 --> 03:39.881\n這全部都照列啊沒有人去刪沒有人去動所以你都是可以動資的啊但是他636他要我們自己刪減636你要那通刪那你就是主席長你就可以分配啊請問你這636你要去刪到一般性補助款嗎你有要嗎我們要刪到一般性補助款你自己有沒有要去動到這一般性補助款嗎我們有要刪啊那準備你要刪多少\n\n03:41.042 --> 03:53.187\n這個部分我們要簽你現在如果你認為說是因為通山部分影響到你的話那你應該有個負案嘛比如說你已經計劃要去通山一般性補助款多少了嗎多少\n\n03:55.568 --> 04:12.001\n多少嘛沒關係你就回答嘛你這應該有數字嘛多少只是說你現在有一個負案是通山多少但是你覺得你要透過四線的救濟手段嘛然後等到救濟手段沒有出來之前你要調節嘛我現在就問你你原本通山你要三一半系補助款多少\n\n04:12.540 --> 04:17.245\n因為我們本來刪2076嘛要刪到一般性補助款2076不是我們本來是刪2076那裡面含6362076單位是什麼議員一般性補助款總共2501億然後你要刪2076\n\n04:28.837 --> 04:54.407\n不是我是說中央補助的中央政府的部分今年被刪減2076不要扯別的我們現在我已經跟你談到項目了嘛不要再扯別的了嘛是那我現在就在想2076裡面有939是通案刪減那通案刪減它指定項目的部分就是303沒有指定項目的就是636那所以這636的部分我們當初一直\n\n04:56.027 --> 05:22.077\n凍結的部分一直沒有送是因為說到底要不要刪這些你不要答非所問我現在就問說你636你要通刪你有要通刪到一般性補助款嗎有嗎多少原則上是全額啦你要全額把2501億照列把它刪掉你總共636你要刪2501億3636所以你636全部都是要刪一般性補助款為什麼\n\n05:23.148 --> 05:41.043\n因為我們因為這個錢是要給地方的所以你要把因為有被要求通山636所以你就要把一般性補助款全部當作這636喔不是也太誇張了吧所以中央完全沒有在理地方喔地方的需求中央完全不考慮喔\n\n05:42.185 --> 05:54.646\n有人叫你通山全部刪一般性補助款嗎這個太扯了啦我看所有的立法委員都來自於地方聽到主計總署這樣子講通山就是要把一般性補助款全部刪掉有道理嗎\n\n05:56.377 --> 06:22.695\n你就中央303按比例啊有說針對這一項要全部通刪的嗎這有道理嗎因為我們中央已經刪了1439沒關係主席長大家都看到了這一些錢都是比如說我們地方我今天也不是為了新北市講而已啦全台灣那麼多縣市都受影響啦那全台灣的縣市民眾都在看啦中央的態度就是因為有被通刪所以我全部都是要把你地方錢砍掉你剛剛的態度就是這樣啦好謝謝葉委員謝謝主席長\n\n06:26.874 --> 06:28.347\n接下來有請王委員事監質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.35,"end":14.672,"text":"馬上請主席長有請主席長委員好主席長好我們那個新北市"},{"start":16.693,"end":35.618,"text":"本來應該有一般性的補助款主委總署1月已經核定了但是在4月的時候忽然修改方式本來1到6月是共會撥55.09億可是4月份修改之後呢7到12月只編了4.68億"},{"start":39.699,"end":58.635,"text":"平均一個月只給7793萬 短撥了51.68億對於地方的財政以及地方要做的業務造成極大的影響我想請問一下主計長忽然間這個四月份修改方式事先有跟地方政府溝通嗎"},{"start":59.858,"end":76.329,"text":"沒有 這個部分主要是因為我們被刪減了631事先有沒有跟地方政府溝通我們一會通知他你根本沒有溝通嘛你一直溝文下去你沒有在管地方政府死活我跟你講這些原本的一般性補助款"},{"start":76.989,"end":100.66,"text":"是要用在比如說低收入家庭兒童跟學生的一些補助還有中低收入戶的老人津貼的一些相關的業務還包括教育的部分學生的營養午餐基本的設備等等結果因為哇 主計總署在完全沒有跟地方政府溝通情況之下直接一個公文過去就告訴地方政府我們要掃編51.68億給你 掃給你51.68億"},{"start":108.254,"end":116.974,"text":"現在中央政府都這麼傲慢都沒有在管地方政府死活請問一下忽然間在沒有溝通情況之下就做了這樣一個決定的原因是什麼"},{"start":117.588,"end":140.923,"text":"我們主要是針對爭域財源的部分才暫緩所以爭域財源的部分對地方影響比較少沒有這是你講的我的了解就不是這樣對但是他如果說這個部分稅出方面他是沒有影響他影響的是稅入這個部分如果說他本身這個在調度方面有問題他就是可以拒絕管"},{"start":141.403,"end":167.347,"text":"對 影響稅率當然就是會影響有沒有錢可以給人家啊他就變成要去銀行借錢啊會增加利息的支出啊主委長 請問一下你現在短波的這個是一般性補助款對不對是那理由是剛剛聽你講說是因為你認為總預算還要釋憲嘛是不是 在等到釋憲結果出來之前所以你做了這樣的調整嘛 沒錯吧"},{"start":168.134,"end":186.066,"text":"不是 我們是現在通案刪減他939嘛那我們依項目減 減了313的話通案刪減有刪減到一般性補助款嗎他項目的部分 按照道理我們是可以沒有嘛 今天我去看一般性補助款你們總共變多少2501億1279萬"},{"start":193.294,"end":219.881,"text":"這全部都照列啊沒有人去刪沒有人去動所以你都是可以動資的啊但是他636他要我們自己刪減636你要那通刪那你就是主席長你就可以分配啊請問你這636你要去刪到一般性補助款嗎你有要嗎我們要刪到一般性補助款你自己有沒有要去動到這一般性補助款嗎我們有要刪啊那準備你要刪多少"},{"start":221.042,"end":233.187,"text":"這個部分我們要簽你現在如果你認為說是因為通山部分影響到你的話那你應該有個負案嘛比如說你已經計劃要去通山一般性補助款多少了嗎多少"},{"start":235.568,"end":252.001,"text":"多少嘛 沒關係你就回答嘛你這應該有數字嘛 多少只是說你現在有一個負案是通山多少但是你覺得你要透過四線的救濟手段嘛然後等到救濟手段沒有出來之前你要調節嘛我現在就問你你原本通山你要三一半系補助款多少"},{"start":252.54,"end":257.245,"text":"因為我們本來刪2076嘛要刪到一般性補助款2076不是我們本來是刪2076那裡面含6362076單位是什麼議員一般性補助款總共2501億然後你要刪2076"},{"start":268.837,"end":294.407,"text":"不是 我是說中央補助的 中央政府的部分今年被刪減2076不要扯別的 我們現在 我已經跟你談到項目了嘛 不要再扯別的了嘛是 那我現在就在想2076裡面有939是通案刪減那通案刪減它指定項目的部分就是303沒有指定項目的就是636那所以這636的部分 我們當初一直"},{"start":296.027,"end":322.077,"text":"凍結的部分一直沒有送是因為說到底要不要刪這些你不要答非所問我現在就問說你636你要通刪你有要通刪到一般性補助款嗎有嗎多少原則上是全額啦你要全額把2501億照列把它刪掉你總共636你要刪2501億3636所以你636全部都是要刪一般性補助款為什麼"},{"start":323.148,"end":341.043,"text":"因為我們因為這個錢是要給地方的所以你要把因為有被要求通山636所以你就要把一般性補助款全部當作這636喔不是也太誇張了吧所以中央完全沒有在理地方喔地方的需求中央完全不考慮喔"},{"start":342.185,"end":354.646,"text":"有人叫你通山全部刪一般性補助款嗎這個太扯了啦我看所有的立法委員都來自於地方聽到主計總署這樣子講通山就是要把一般性補助款全部刪掉有道理嗎"},{"start":356.377,"end":382.695,"text":"你就中央303按比例啊有說針對這一項要全部通刪的嗎這有道理嗎因為我們中央已經刪了1439沒關係主席長大家都看到了這一些錢都是比如說我們地方我今天也不是為了新北市講而已啦全台灣那麼多縣市都受影響啦那全台灣的縣市民眾都在看啦中央的態度就是因為有被通刪所以我全部都是要把你地方錢砍掉你剛剛的態度就是這樣啦好 謝謝葉委員 謝謝主席長"},{"start":386.874,"end":388.347,"text":"接下來有請王委員事監質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":995,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時28分）麻煩請主計長。"],["主席：有請主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：主計長好。新北市本來應該有一般性補助款，主計總處1月已經核定了，但是在4月的時候忽然修改方式，本來1到6月總共會撥55.09億，可是4月份修改之後，7到12月只編列4.68億，平均一個月只給7,793萬，短撥了51.68億，對於地方的財政以及地方要做的業務造成極大的影響。我想請問一下主計長，忽然間在4月份修改方式，事先有跟地方政府溝通嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分主要是因為我們被刪減了……"],["葉委員元之：事先有沒有跟地方政府溝通？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們會通知。"],["葉委員元之：你根本沒有溝通嘛！你一紙公文下去，根本沒有在管地方政府死活。我跟你講，這些原本該有的一般性補助款是要用在低收入家庭、兒童跟學生的一些補助，還有中低收入戶老人津貼的相關業務，另外還包括教育的部分、學生的營養午餐、基本的設備等等，結果因為主計總處在完全沒有跟地方政府溝通的情況之下，直接一紙公文過去就告訴地方政府你們要少編51.68億，也就是少給他們51.68億，現在中央政府都這麼傲慢、都沒有在管地方政府死活喔！請問一下在沒有溝通的情況之下，忽然就作這種決定的原因是什麼？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們主要是針對增裕財源的部分才暫緩撥款，其實增裕財源的部分對地方影響比較少。第二個……"],["葉委員元之：沒有！這是你講的，我的了解就不是這樣。"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，但是如果這個部分，歲出方面是沒有影響的，它影響的是歲入的部分，如果它本身在調度方面有問題，就是可以去借款。"],["葉委員元之：影響歲入當然就是會影響……沒有錢可以給人家啊！它就變成要去銀行借錢，會增加利息的支出。"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為這個部分……"],["葉委員元之：主計長，請問一下，現在短撥的這個是一般性補助款，對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["葉委員元之：剛剛聽你講說，理由是因為你認為總預算還要釋憲嘛，是不是？在等到釋憲結果出來之前，所以你做這樣的調整，沒錯吧？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，現在是通案刪減939，我們依項目減了303之後……"],["葉委員元之：通案刪減有刪減到一般性補助款嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：項目的部分，按照道理，我們是可以……"],["葉委員元之：沒有嘛！今天我去看一般性補助款，你們總共編多少？2,501億1,279萬，這全部都照列，沒有人去刪、沒有人去凍，所以都是你可以動支的啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：但是636的部分，它要我們自行刪減。"],["葉委員元之：那通刪，你就是主計長，你就可以分配啊！請問636的部分，你要刪到一般性補助款嗎？你有要嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們要刪到一般性補助款。"],["葉委員元之：你自己有沒有要去動到一般性補助款嘛？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們有要刪。"],["葉委員元之：你準備要刪多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分我們要簽送院長來……"],["葉委員元之：如果你認為是因為通刪部分影響到你的話，那你應該有個腹案，比如說你已經計畫要去通刪一般性補助款多少了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：其實這個部分……"],["葉委員元之：多少嘛？沒關係，你就回答嘛！你這應該有數字多少？只是現在你有一個腹案通刪是多少？但是你覺得要透過釋憲的救濟手段，救濟手段沒有出來之前，你要調節嘛，我現在就問你，你原本通刪要刪一般性補助款多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為我們本來刪2,076……"],["葉委員元之：要刪到一般性補助款2,076？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，我們本來是刪2,076，裡面含636……"],["葉委員元之：2,076的單位是什麼？"],["陳主計長淑姿：億元。"],["葉委員元之：一般性補助款總共2,501億，然後你要刪2,076億？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，我是說中央政府的部分，今年被刪減2,076億。"],["葉委員元之：不要扯別的，現在我已經跟你談到項目，不要再扯別的了，你現在就是……"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，我現在就在講2,076億裡面有939億是通案刪減部分，通案刪減有指定項目的303億，沒有指定項目的636億，所以這636的部分，我們當初凍結的部分一直沒有送，是因為到底要不要刪這些被凍結的……"],["葉委員元之：你不要答非所問，我現在就問你636的部分，你有要通刪到一般性補助款嗎？有嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：有。"],["葉委員元之：多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：原則上是全額。"],["葉委員元之：你要全額，把照列2,501億刪掉，你總共636，要刪2,501億？"],["陳主計長淑姿：刪636。"],["葉委員元之：所以636全部都是要刪一般性補助款？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼？因為這個錢是要給地方的？因為有被要求通刪636，所以你就要把一般性補助款全部當作這636的部分？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，因為……"],["葉委員元之：也太誇張了吧！所以中央完全沒有在理地方，地方的需求中央完全不考慮，有人叫你通刪是全部刪一般性補助款嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：中央已經被刪1,439了。"],["葉委員元之：這個太扯了！我跟你講，所有的立法委員都來自於地方，聽到主計總處這樣子講，通刪就是要把一般性補助款全部刪掉，有道理嗎？就算要刪也是要按比例啊！有說針對這一項要全部通刪的嗎？這有道理嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為我們中央已經刪了1,439……"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，主計長，大家都看到了，關於這一些錢，我現在也不是為了新北市講而已，全臺灣那麼多縣市都受到影響，全臺灣的縣市民眾都在看，中央的態度就是因為有被通刪，所以全部都是要把地方的先砍掉，你剛剛的態度就是這樣。"],["主席：謝謝葉委員，謝謝主計長。","接下來有請王委員世堅質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":588,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-12","speakers":["賴惠員","吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","郭國文","顏寬恒","李彥秀","李坤城","林思銘","羅明才","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","王世堅","陳玉珍"],"page_start":521,"meetingDate":["2025-05-15"],"gazette_id":"1144901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144901_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結書面報告案 62案、有關\n審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案4案及有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案18案；二、處理\n中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結專案報告案 17案及有關行政院主\n計總處預算凍結專案報告案1案","agenda_id":"1144901_00007"}}}