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\"end\": 83.219, \"text\": \"業務費凍結百分之五十然後呢到這個執行百分之三十才可以申請解凍啦我認為這個應該是蠻重要的一個因為畢竟這個影響到外館的經營然後再來就是它是還要經過院會所以呢我們是希望這個可以今天通過委員會那裡面有幾個細項我想要來問一下就是說第一個當然就是這個在上次因為上次部長有事但上次我問過這一個就是我們索羅門的議員\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 60.309, \"end\": 60.41, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 60.41, \"end\": 60.55, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 60.55, \"end\": 60.69, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 60.69, \"end\": 60.93, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 60.93, \"end\": 61.57, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 61.57, \"end\": 61.69, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 61.69, \"end\": 61.81, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 61.81, \"end\": 61.93, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 61.93, \"end\": 62.57, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 65.892, \"end\": 66.152, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"蠻\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 66.152, \"end\": 66.332, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 66.332, \"end\": 66.492, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 66.492, \"end\": 66.592, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 66.592, \"end\": 67.212, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 67.212, \"end\": 67.613, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"畢\"}, {\"word\": \"竟\", \"start\": 67.613, \"end\": 67.953, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 67.953, \"end\": 68.293, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 68.293, \"end\": 68.733, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 68.733, \"end\": 69.053, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"館\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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\"呢\", \"start\": 72.975, \"end\": 73.375, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 73.375, \"end\": 73.535, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 73.535, \"end\": 73.675, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 73.675, \"end\": 73.835, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 73.835, \"end\": 74.215, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 74.215, \"end\": 74.315, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 74.315, \"end\": 74.395, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 74.395, \"end\": 74.496, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 74.496, \"end\": 74.596, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 74.596, \"end\": 75.036, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 75.036, \"end\": 75.876, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 75.876, \"end\": 76.116, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, 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\"start\": 79.778, \"end\": 79.878, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 79.878, \"end\": 80.018, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 80.018, \"end\": 80.538, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 80.538, \"end\": 80.698, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 80.698, \"end\": 80.958, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 80.958, \"end\": 81.238, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 81.238, \"end\": 81.338, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 81.338, \"end\": 81.459, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 81.459, \"end\": 81.579, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 81.579, \"end\": 81.839, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 81.839, \"end\": 82.019, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 82.019, \"end\": 82.259, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 82.259, \"end\": 82.359, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 82.359, \"end\": 82.519, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 82.519, \"end\": 82.639, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 82.639, \"end\": 82.719, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 82.719, \"end\": 82.779, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 82.779, \"end\": 82.899, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 82.899, \"end\": 82.959, \"score\": 0.628}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 82.959, \"end\": 83.099, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"索\", \"start\": 83.099, \"end\": 83.199, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 83.199, \"end\": 83.219, \"score\": 0.028}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}]}, {\"start\": 85.02, \"end\": 112.857, \"text\": \"然後他遭到施壓然後他退出IPAC這樣的一個事情那上次我是著重在說他報導的這個報紙因為在這個整體作戰裡面這個報導的報紙其實也是中國投資的一個報紙但是相對於像這樣的一個情形就是議員遭受到施壓這是第一個第二個就是在這個中拉論壇我們的邦交國的出席其實對台灣也可能會有一定程度的影響那這個當然在外館的這個業務上面都變得蠻重要的是不是可以請部長說明一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 85.02, \"end\": 85.08, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 85.08, \"end\": 85.1, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 85.1, \"end\": 85.22, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"遭\", \"start\": 85.22, \"end\": 85.28, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 85.28, \"end\": 85.48, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 85.48, \"end\": 85.66, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"壓\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 85.66, \"end\": 86.181, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 86.181, \"end\": 86.281, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 86.281, \"end\": 86.421, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"退\", \"start\": 86.421, \"end\": 86.541, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 86.541, \"end\": 86.701, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 86.701, \"end\": 86.881, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 86.881, \"end\": 86.921, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 86.921, \"end\": 87.181, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 87.181, \"end\": 87.361, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 87.361, \"end\": 87.442, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 87.442, \"end\": 87.682, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 87.682, \"end\": 87.882, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 87.882, \"end\": 88.562, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 88.562, \"end\": 88.682, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 88.682, \"end\": 88.822, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 88.822, \"end\": 88.942, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 88.942, \"end\": 89.042, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 89.042, \"end\": 89.183, \"score\": 0.997}, 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\"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"壇\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 104.592, \"end\": 104.752, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.752, \"end\": 104.872, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"邦\", \"start\": 104.872, \"end\": 105.032, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 105.032, \"end\": 105.572, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 105.572, \"end\": 105.793, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 105.793, \"end\": 106.093, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 106.093, \"end\": 106.453, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 106.453, \"end\": 106.833, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 106.833, \"end\": 107.133, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 107.133, \"end\": 107.273, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 107.273, \"end\": 107.353, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"能\", 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 109.935, \"end\": 110.515, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 110.515, \"end\": 110.635, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 110.635, \"end\": 110.736, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 110.736, \"end\": 110.936, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 110.936, \"end\": 111.216, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"蠻\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 111.216, \"end\": 111.416, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 111.416, \"end\": 111.556, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 111.556, \"end\": 111.656, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 111.656, \"end\": 111.776, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 111.776, \"end\": 111.856, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 111.856, \"end\": 111.876, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 111.876, \"end\": 111.976, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 111.976, \"end\": 112.196, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 112.196, \"end\": 112.637, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 112.637, \"end\": 112.757, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 112.757, \"end\": 112.837, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 112.837, \"end\": 112.857, \"score\": 0.002}]}, {\"start\": 113.857, \"end\": 138.536, \"text\": \"是有關於這兩個案子我想所門群島的因為不信任投票後來又撤回引起他們內閣的一些小幅的改組那有一些入閣的人士過去有參加IPAC那有這個方面那當然我們對於他放棄這個擔任這些共同主席相關的角色我們是當然表示遺憾那也了解這個中國的施壓那這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 113.857, \"end\": 114.718, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 114.718, \"end\": 114.838, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 114.838, \"end\": 115.458, \"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 115.458, \"end\": 115.779, \"score\": 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\"end\": 595.664, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 595.664, \"end\": 595.684, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,606 --> 00:00:02,187\n謝謝主席,有請部長部長好委員長今天是解凍但是因為剛好這幾天有一件時事就是說芬蘭我們有新的人事的新聞那是不是可以請部長先稍微跟國人做一個簡單的說明\n\n2\n00:00:26,956 --> 00:00:43,549\n有關於外界關切林昶佐先生的人事案現在在辦理中因為大使的派任是由總統來決定總統府來公告所以這個作業程序在進行當中\n\n3\n00:00:44,770 --> 00:00:54,443\n因為這個我相信這個今天可能會有很多的問題都是這方面那就是這個但是因為這次解凍案所以我最主要還是針對解凍的事項來問一下那因為這一次有這個討論事項第四案就是說關於這一個\n\n4\n00:01:00,309 --> 00:01:23,219\n業務費凍結百分之五十然後呢到這個執行百分之三十才可以申請解凍啦我認為這個應該是蠻重要的一個因為畢竟這個影響到外館的經營然後再來就是它是還要經過院會所以呢我們是希望這個可以今天通過委員會那裡面有幾個細項我想要來問一下就是說第一個當然就是這個在上次因為上次部長有事但上次我問過這一個就是我們索羅門的議員\n\n5\n00:01:25,020 --> 00:01:52,857\n然後他遭到施壓然後他退出IPAC這樣的一個事情那上次我是著重在說他報導的這個報紙因為在這個整體作戰裡面這個報導的報紙其實也是中國投資的一個報紙但是相對於像這樣的一個情形就是議員遭受到施壓這是第一個第二個就是在這個中拉論壇我們的邦交國的出席其實對台灣也可能會有一定程度的影響那這個當然在外館的這個業務上面都變得蠻重要的是不是可以請部長說明一下\n\n6\n00:01:53,857 --> 00:02:18,536\n是有關於這兩個案子我想所門群島的因為不信任投票後來又撤回引起他們內閣的一些小幅的改組那有一些入閣的人士過去有參加IPAC那有這個方面那當然我們對於他放棄這個擔任這些共同主席相關的角色我們是當然表示遺憾那也了解這個中國的施壓那這個\n\n7\n00:02:24,340 --> 00:02:38,283\n方面我們會持續的努力來跟友好的國會議員跟政黨來保持聯繫然後也能夠促請未來跟台灣的關係能夠有\n\n8\n00:02:44,745 --> 00:02:52,432\n一些交流合作至於說中拉論壇我們外交部都有密切掌握所謂兩個友邦有代表前往因為它是中國跟拉共體之間的組織對組織的關係\n\n9\n00:03:02,020 --> 00:03:18,209\n那這海地的方面因為它現在進行這一個可以說是正在處於臨時正譜的階段所以不會做出什麼決定那事前事後也都有跟我們溝通我們當然勸阻不過因為基於他們國家的考量\n\n10\n00:03:18,629 --> 00:03:33,403\n所以我覺得在這次的掌握上都是能夠充分掌握至於說這個聖路西他不是由外交部長是其他政黨人士他們也有所說明\n\n11\n00:03:34,404 --> 00:03:49,225\n那這個就是說呢我認為啦就是說這個當然因為中方故意在這邊又在講什麼一個中國原則啦什麼等等之類的這個當然會有一些影響但我在想的事情就是說因為其實520將至啦那在520呢中國其實動作一定會很多\n\n12\n00:03:50,225 --> 00:04:07,970\n某大部分其實都是跟軍事有關我們最近也看到這個海巡相關的騷擾但是中國同樣的在520應該在外交上也會有所動作所以在這個時候它不一定是當然是除了這個接觸我們的邦交國之外它也有可能藉由這樣的一個新聞去炒作輿論然後又要講說什麼台灣外交部可能對外有所對外不利\n\n13\n00:04:14,153 --> 00:04:33,646\n這個沒有好好照顧我們的邦交國等等之類的這樣的輿論可能也會傳出所以我覺得有可能在520之前外交部隊這個可能要做好準備做好準備是我們很早就準備因為中共會在我們總統就職週年在外交上挖我們牆角是可預期包括在國際組織上壓縮我們的空間包括2758號這個決議那對這些我們也因為都有\n\n14\n00:04:40,831 --> 00:04:59,338\n事先的這個做好準備到目前為止都在我們掌握的情況之下希望沒有意外因為我覺得就是因為今天病情跟解凍是比較有關係所以我想說這個外交部對於520之前的一些所作所為可能對我們來講都是重要的一個監督範圍\n\n15\n00:05:00,518 --> 00:05:30,238\n但裡面還有一個這我時間快到我有一個小地方就是之前我有在問這個NGO論壇那因為其實呢我那時候有提出一個某部分的凍結案到後來併案了那因為併案之後呢這個就沒有特別在這個解凍報告裡面來說明所以這邊可能想問一下部長就是說在接下來就是我們這幾年在舉辦類似的這種NGO論壇它的受眾還有它的這一個評估就是說我們今天要怎麼去評估說這個那個效益為何\n\n16\n00:05:31,218 --> 00:05:58,345\n因為我們現在有很多NGO其實在國外是幫我們講話它是我們很重要的這個總和外交的一環那但是就是說呢我們現在要怎麼去評估然後它的參與者的回饋如何這個接下來的這一個未來的規劃大概是什麼樣子是NGO外交是我們總和外交很重要的一部分那比如是今年的玉山論壇我們也經過一些NGO代表還有智庫的代表有倡議要成立NGO中心在台灣\n\n17\n00:06:01,167 --> 00:06:22,664\n做一個hub也能夠來協調促進更多的交流合作那當然今年很特別是因為川普政府對USAID的改組導致很多NGO運作困難我們也透過我們的管道跟我們的方式\n\n18\n00:06:24,405 --> 00:06:38,795\n盡量的去協助能夠撐過這個危險的比較困難的時刻那NGO它的自主性很強議題範圍很廣這個也是代表民主社會才會有的所以我們在這方面會加強是因為相對於中國\n\n19\n00:06:39,956 --> 00:07:07,254\n它是一個極權國家它不允許這些公民社團或組織的一個自主的存在所以這裡面我們也希望說NGO的事務會能夠扮演更大的我們像總和外交社會是各部會其實不同的議題因為他們的關切不一樣實際上是屬於各部會的業務只是都跟我們外交有關係所以我們會加強跟國內各部會的聯繫\n\n20\n00:07:10,096 --> 00:07:32,282\n幫忙或者是說促進國內NGO的對外的交流畢竟他們才是主體那透過NGO外交來推動這個價值外交對其實我followup一個就是剛剛部長提到我覺得一個蠻重要的一點就是說因為NGO在這個補助上面在去年一直到今年其實都有遇到一定的困難我說在國際上\n\n21\n00:07:33,582 --> 00:07:41,379\n所以我們都在民主基金會所以民主基金會一定程度的幫助其實對於我們要去能夠交到這些朋友無尼是重要的\n\n22\n00:07:41,994 --> 00:08:06,386\n我也用這個機會跟委員報告當然包括民主基金會是跨黨派其實也在提案希望其實明年的預算可以增加因為在這個時刻在全世界最需要台灣的時候我們如果能夠增加預算現在的這個董事長是韓國瑜院長也是立法院各黨派都有代表我們希望來強化民主基金會的角色\n\n23\n00:08:07,086 --> 00:08:34,136\n對因為像這個像我知道在東南亞可能有一些媒體它本來也是有一些NGO相關的資助但後來它也是因為這個樣子就是中國反而把手伸進來然後它想要去資助這些媒體也會有我剛剛講的像索羅門的那樣一個案件就是中國所資助的媒體在海外去散播這些訊息所以對我們來講就是說我們跟NGO之間的關係我們當然不能夠直接對媒體\n\n24\n00:08:35,356 --> 00:08:51,504\n但我們跟NGO之間的關係很有很大的程度會影響到海外的這個輿論戰那這個部分我認為是重要的這個也拉回到我今天在最前面問的就是長佐的這個人事案因為他長期以來其實跟NGO跟I-NGO的關係其實非常好他也擔任過這個國際特赦的這個分會長\n\n25\n00:08:54,685 --> 00:09:07,362\n所以我覺得藉由這一個人事的任命案我會認為是不是也要藉由這一個節點去把更多的NGO跟INGO拉進來那這樣的話對我們來交朋友來講一定會有更好的一個幫助\n\n26\n00:09:09,128 --> 00:09:34,099\n是確實當然林委員他的背景除了音樂文化的方面的專長以外其實在人權的議題上面他也是這個國際特色組織台灣分會的會長也出席過各種國際的會議那我們希望當然總和外交是讓各方面都能夠走向世界另外我也跟委員報告其實以民主國家的經驗擔任過國會議員包括\n\n27\n00:09:36,781 --> 00:09:55,684\n我想外交國安委會每一位立委其實都是具備擔任大使跟代表的條件我這講的是不分黨派因為國會議員他對國政很了解對行政部門監督所以大家當到外交的第一線的時候其實這個是民主的常態對希望能夠好好發揮謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n606\t2187\t謝謝主席,有請部長部長好委員長今天是解凍但是因為剛好這幾天有一件時事就是說芬蘭我們有新的人事的新聞那是不是可以請部長先稍微跟國人做一個簡單的說明\n26956\t43549\t有關於外界關切林昶佐先生的人事案現在在辦理中因為大使的派任是由總統來決定總統府來公告所以這個作業程序在進行當中\n44770\t54443\t因為這個我相信這個今天可能會有很多的問題都是這方面那就是這個但是因為這次解凍案所以我最主要還是針對解凍的事項來問一下那因為這一次有這個討論事項第四案就是說關於這一個\n60309\t83219\t業務費凍結百分之五十然後呢到這個執行百分之三十才可以申請解凍啦我認為這個應該是蠻重要的一個因為畢竟這個影響到外館的經營然後再來就是它是還要經過院會所以呢我們是希望這個可以今天通過委員會那裡面有幾個細項我想要來問一下就是說第一個當然就是這個在上次因為上次部長有事但上次我問過這一個就是我們索羅門的議員\n85020\t112857\t然後他遭到施壓然後他退出IPAC這樣的一個事情那上次我是著重在說他報導的這個報紙因為在這個整體作戰裡面這個報導的報紙其實也是中國投資的一個報紙但是相對於像這樣的一個情形就是議員遭受到施壓這是第一個第二個就是在這個中拉論壇我們的邦交國的出席其實對台灣也可能會有一定程度的影響那這個當然在外館的這個業務上面都變得蠻重要的是不是可以請部長說明一下\n113857\t138536\t是有關於這兩個案子我想所門群島的因為不信任投票後來又撤回引起他們內閣的一些小幅的改組那有一些入閣的人士過去有參加IPAC那有這個方面那當然我們對於他放棄這個擔任這些共同主席相關的角色我們是當然表示遺憾那也了解這個中國的施壓那這個\n144340\t158283\t方面我們會持續的努力來跟友好的國會議員跟政黨來保持聯繫然後也能夠促請未來跟台灣的關係能夠有\n164745\t172432\t一些交流合作至於說中拉論壇我們外交部都有密切掌握所謂兩個友邦有代表前往因為它是中國跟拉共體之間的組織對組織的關係\n182020\t198209\t那這海地的方面因為它現在進行這一個可以說是正在處於臨時正譜的階段所以不會做出什麼決定那事前事後也都有跟我們溝通我們當然勸阻不過因為基於他們國家的考量\n198629\t213403\t所以我覺得在這次的掌握上都是能夠充分掌握至於說這個聖路西他不是由外交部長是其他政黨人士他們也有所說明\n214404\t229225\t那這個就是說呢我認為啦就是說這個當然因為中方故意在這邊又在講什麼一個中國原則啦什麼等等之類的這個當然會有一些影響但我在想的事情就是說因為其實520將至啦那在520呢中國其實動作一定會很多\n230225\t247970\t某大部分其實都是跟軍事有關我們最近也看到這個海巡相關的騷擾但是中國同樣的在520應該在外交上也會有所動作所以在這個時候它不一定是當然是除了這個接觸我們的邦交國之外它也有可能藉由這樣的一個新聞去炒作輿論然後又要講說什麼台灣外交部可能對外有所對外不利\n254153\t273646\t這個沒有好好照顧我們的邦交國等等之類的這樣的輿論可能也會傳出所以我覺得有可能在520之前外交部隊這個可能要做好準備做好準備是 我們很早就準備因為中共會在我們總統就職週年在外交上挖我們牆角是可預期包括在國際組織上壓縮我們的空間包括2758號這個決議那對這些我們也因為都有\n280831\t299338\t事先的這個做好準備到目前為止都在我們掌握的情況之下希望沒有意外因為我覺得就是因為今天病情跟解凍是比較有關係所以我想說這個外交部對於520之前的一些所作所為可能對我們來講都是重要的一個監督範圍\n300518\t330238\t但裡面還有一個這我時間快到我有一個小地方就是之前我有在問這個NGO論壇那因為其實呢我那時候有提出一個某部分的凍結案到後來併案了那因為併案之後呢這個就沒有特別在這個解凍報告裡面來說明所以這邊可能想問一下部長就是說在接下來就是我們這幾年在舉辦類似的這種NGO論壇它的受眾還有它的這一個評估就是說我們今天要怎麼去評估說這個那個效益為何\n331218\t358345\t因為我們現在有很多NGO其實在國外是幫我們講話它是我們很重要的這個總和外交的一環那但是就是說呢我們現在要怎麼去評估然後它的參與者的回饋如何這個接下來的這一個未來的規劃大概是什麼樣子是NGO外交是我們總和外交很重要的一部分那比如是今年的玉山論壇我們也經過一些NGO代表還有智庫的代表有倡議要成立NGO中心在台灣\n361167\t382664\t做一個hub也能夠來協調促進更多的交流合作那當然今年很特別是因為川普政府對USAID的改組導致很多NGO運作困難我們也透過我們的管道跟我們的方式\n384405\t398795\t盡量的去協助能夠撐過這個危險的比較困難的時刻那NGO它的自主性很強議題範圍很廣這個也是代表民主社會才會有的所以我們在這方面會加強是因為相對於中國\n399956\t427254\t它是一個極權國家它不允許這些公民社團或組織的一個自主的存在所以這裡面我們也希望說NGO的事務會能夠扮演更大的我們像總和外交社會是各部會其實不同的議題因為他們的關切不一樣實際上是屬於各部會的業務只是都跟我們外交有關係所以我們會加強跟國內各部會的聯繫\n430096\t452282\t幫忙或者是說促進國內NGO的對外的交流畢竟他們才是主體那透過NGO外交來推動這個價值外交對其實我follow up一個就是剛剛部長提到我覺得一個蠻重要的一點就是說因為NGO在這個補助上面在去年一直到今年其實都有遇到一定的困難我說在國際上\n453582\t461379\t所以我們都在民主基金會所以民主基金會一定程度的幫助其實對於我們要去能夠交到這些朋友無尼是重要的\n461994\t486386\t我也用這個機會跟委員報告當然包括民主基金會是跨黨派其實也在提案希望其實明年的預算可以增加因為在這個時刻在全世界最需要台灣的時候我們如果能夠增加預算現在的這個董事長是韓國瑜院長也是立法院各黨派都有代表我們希望來強化民主基金會的角色\n487086\t514136\t對 因為像這個像我知道在東南亞可能有一些媒體它本來也是有一些NGO相關的資助但後來它也是因為這個樣子就是中國反而把手伸進來然後它想要去資助這些媒體也會有我剛剛講的像索羅門的那樣一個案件就是中國所資助的媒體在海外去散播這些訊息所以對我們來講就是說我們跟NGO之間的關係我們當然不能夠直接對媒體\n515356\t531504\t但我們跟NGO之間的關係很有很大的程度會影響到海外的這個輿論戰那這個部分我認為是重要的這個也拉回到我今天在最前面問的就是長佐的這個人事案因為他長期以來其實跟NGO跟I-NGO的關係其實非常好他也擔任過這個國際特赦的這個分會長\n534685\t547362\t所以我覺得藉由這一個人事的任命案我會認為是不是也要藉由這一個節點去把更多的NGO跟INGO拉進來那這樣的話對我們來交朋友來講一定會有更好的一個幫助\n549128\t574099\t是 確實當然林委員他的背景除了音樂文化的方面的專長以外其實在人權的議題上面他也是這個國際特色組織台灣分會的會長也出席過各種國際的會議那我們希望當然總和外交是讓各方面都能夠走向世界另外我也跟委員報告其實以民主國家的經驗擔任過國會議員包括\n576781\t595684\t我想外交國安委會每一位立委其實都是具備擔任大使跟代表的條件我這講的是不分黨派因為國會議員他對國政很了解對行政部門監督所以大家當到外交的第一線的時候其實這個是民主的常態對 希望能夠好好發揮謝謝部長 謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請部長部長好委員長今天是解凍但是因為剛好這幾天有一件時事就是說芬蘭我們有新的人事的新聞那是不是可以請部長先稍微跟國人做一個簡單的說明\n有關於外界關切林昶佐先生的人事案現在在辦理中因為大使的派任是由總統來決定總統府來公告所以這個作業程序在進行當中\n因為這個我相信這個今天可能會有很多的問題都是這方面那就是這個但是因為這次解凍案所以我最主要還是針對解凍的事項來問一下那因為這一次有這個討論事項第四案就是說關於這一個\n業務費凍結百分之五十然後呢到這個執行百分之三十才可以申請解凍啦我認為這個應該是蠻重要的一個因為畢竟這個影響到外館的經營然後再來就是它是還要經過院會所以呢我們是希望這個可以今天通過委員會那裡面有幾個細項我想要來問一下就是說第一個當然就是這個在上次因為上次部長有事但上次我問過這一個就是我們索羅門的議員\n然後他遭到施壓然後他退出IPAC這樣的一個事情那上次我是著重在說他報導的這個報紙因為在這個整體作戰裡面這個報導的報紙其實也是中國投資的一個報紙但是相對於像這樣的一個情形就是議員遭受到施壓這是第一個第二個就是在這個中拉論壇我們的邦交國的出席其實對台灣也可能會有一定程度的影響那這個當然在外館的這個業務上面都變得蠻重要的是不是可以請部長說明一下\n是有關於這兩個案子我想所門群島的因為不信任投票後來又撤回引起他們內閣的一些小幅的改組那有一些入閣的人士過去有參加IPAC那有這個方面那當然我們對於他放棄這個擔任這些共同主席相關的角色我們是當然表示遺憾那也了解這個中國的施壓那這個\n方面我們會持續的努力來跟友好的國會議員跟政黨來保持聯繫然後也能夠促請未來跟台灣的關係能夠有\n一些交流合作至於說中拉論壇我們外交部都有密切掌握所謂兩個友邦有代表前往因為它是中國跟拉共體之間的組織對組織的關係\n那這海地的方面因為它現在進行這一個可以說是正在處於臨時正譜的階段所以不會做出什麼決定那事前事後也都有跟我們溝通我們當然勸阻不過因為基於他們國家的考量\n所以我覺得在這次的掌握上都是能夠充分掌握至於說這個聖路西他不是由外交部長是其他政黨人士他們也有所說明\n那這個就是說呢我認為啦就是說這個當然因為中方故意在這邊又在講什麼一個中國原則啦什麼等等之類的這個當然會有一些影響但我在想的事情就是說因為其實520將至啦那在520呢中國其實動作一定會很多\n某大部分其實都是跟軍事有關我們最近也看到這個海巡相關的騷擾但是中國同樣的在520應該在外交上也會有所動作所以在這個時候它不一定是當然是除了這個接觸我們的邦交國之外它也有可能藉由這樣的一個新聞去炒作輿論然後又要講說什麼台灣外交部可能對外有所對外不利\n這個沒有好好照顧我們的邦交國等等之類的這樣的輿論可能也會傳出所以我覺得有可能在520之前外交部隊這個可能要做好準備做好準備是 我們很早就準備因為中共會在我們總統就職週年在外交上挖我們牆角是可預期包括在國際組織上壓縮我們的空間包括2758號這個決議那對這些我們也因為都有\n事先的這個做好準備到目前為止都在我們掌握的情況之下希望沒有意外因為我覺得就是因為今天病情跟解凍是比較有關係所以我想說這個外交部對於520之前的一些所作所為可能對我們來講都是重要的一個監督範圍\n但裡面還有一個這我時間快到我有一個小地方就是之前我有在問這個NGO論壇那因為其實呢我那時候有提出一個某部分的凍結案到後來併案了那因為併案之後呢這個就沒有特別在這個解凍報告裡面來說明所以這邊可能想問一下部長就是說在接下來就是我們這幾年在舉辦類似的這種NGO論壇它的受眾還有它的這一個評估就是說我們今天要怎麼去評估說這個那個效益為何\n因為我們現在有很多NGO其實在國外是幫我們講話它是我們很重要的這個總和外交的一環那但是就是說呢我們現在要怎麼去評估然後它的參與者的回饋如何這個接下來的這一個未來的規劃大概是什麼樣子是NGO外交是我們總和外交很重要的一部分那比如是今年的玉山論壇我們也經過一些NGO代表還有智庫的代表有倡議要成立NGO中心在台灣\n做一個hub也能夠來協調促進更多的交流合作那當然今年很特別是因為川普政府對USAID的改組導致很多NGO運作困難我們也透過我們的管道跟我們的方式\n盡量的去協助能夠撐過這個危險的比較困難的時刻那NGO它的自主性很強議題範圍很廣這個也是代表民主社會才會有的所以我們在這方面會加強是因為相對於中國\n它是一個極權國家它不允許這些公民社團或組織的一個自主的存在所以這裡面我們也希望說NGO的事務會能夠扮演更大的我們像總和外交社會是各部會其實不同的議題因為他們的關切不一樣實際上是屬於各部會的業務只是都跟我們外交有關係所以我們會加強跟國內各部會的聯繫\n幫忙或者是說促進國內NGO的對外的交流畢竟他們才是主體那透過NGO外交來推動這個價值外交對其實我follow up一個就是剛剛部長提到我覺得一個蠻重要的一點就是說因為NGO在這個補助上面在去年一直到今年其實都有遇到一定的困難我說在國際上\n所以我們都在民主基金會所以民主基金會一定程度的幫助其實對於我們要去能夠交到這些朋友無尼是重要的\n我也用這個機會跟委員報告當然包括民主基金會是跨黨派其實也在提案希望其實明年的預算可以增加因為在這個時刻在全世界最需要台灣的時候我們如果能夠增加預算現在的這個董事長是韓國瑜院長也是立法院各黨派都有代表我們希望來強化民主基金會的角色\n對 因為像這個像我知道在東南亞可能有一些媒體它本來也是有一些NGO相關的資助但後來它也是因為這個樣子就是中國反而把手伸進來然後它想要去資助這些媒體也會有我剛剛講的像索羅門的那樣一個案件就是中國所資助的媒體在海外去散播這些訊息所以對我們來講就是說我們跟NGO之間的關係我們當然不能夠直接對媒體\n但我們跟NGO之間的關係很有很大的程度會影響到海外的這個輿論戰那這個部分我認為是重要的這個也拉回到我今天在最前面問的就是長佐的這個人事案因為他長期以來其實跟NGO跟I-NGO的關係其實非常好他也擔任過這個國際特赦的這個分會長\n所以我覺得藉由這一個人事的任命案我會認為是不是也要藉由這一個節點去把更多的NGO跟INGO拉進來那這樣的話對我們來交朋友來講一定會有更好的一個幫助\n是 確實當然林委員他的背景除了音樂文化的方面的專長以外其實在人權的議題上面他也是這個國際特色組織台灣分會的會長也出席過各種國際的會議那我們希望當然總和外交是讓各方面都能夠走向世界另外我也跟委員報告其實以民主國家的經驗擔任過國會議員包括\n我想外交國安委會每一位立委其實都是具備擔任大使跟代表的條件我這講的是不分黨派因為國會議員他對國政很了解對行政部門監督所以大家當到外交的第一線的時候其實這個是民主的常態對 希望能夠好好發揮謝謝部長 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.606 --> 00:02.187\n謝謝主席,有請部長部長好委員長今天是解凍但是因為剛好這幾天有一件時事就是說芬蘭我們有新的人事的新聞那是不是可以請部長先稍微跟國人做一個簡單的說明\n\n00:26.956 --> 00:43.549\n有關於外界關切林昶佐先生的人事案現在在辦理中因為大使的派任是由總統來決定總統府來公告所以這個作業程序在進行當中\n\n00:44.770 --> 00:54.443\n因為這個我相信這個今天可能會有很多的問題都是這方面那就是這個但是因為這次解凍案所以我最主要還是針對解凍的事項來問一下那因為這一次有這個討論事項第四案就是說關於這一個\n\n01:00.309 --> 01:23.219\n業務費凍結百分之五十然後呢到這個執行百分之三十才可以申請解凍啦我認為這個應該是蠻重要的一個因為畢竟這個影響到外館的經營然後再來就是它是還要經過院會所以呢我們是希望這個可以今天通過委員會那裡面有幾個細項我想要來問一下就是說第一個當然就是這個在上次因為上次部長有事但上次我問過這一個就是我們索羅門的議員\n\n01:25.020 --> 01:52.857\n然後他遭到施壓然後他退出IPAC這樣的一個事情那上次我是著重在說他報導的這個報紙因為在這個整體作戰裡面這個報導的報紙其實也是中國投資的一個報紙但是相對於像這樣的一個情形就是議員遭受到施壓這是第一個第二個就是在這個中拉論壇我們的邦交國的出席其實對台灣也可能會有一定程度的影響那這個當然在外館的這個業務上面都變得蠻重要的是不是可以請部長說明一下\n\n01:53.857 --> 02:18.536\n是有關於這兩個案子我想所門群島的因為不信任投票後來又撤回引起他們內閣的一些小幅的改組那有一些入閣的人士過去有參加IPAC那有這個方面那當然我們對於他放棄這個擔任這些共同主席相關的角色我們是當然表示遺憾那也了解這個中國的施壓那這個\n\n02:24.340 --> 02:38.283\n方面我們會持續的努力來跟友好的國會議員跟政黨來保持聯繫然後也能夠促請未來跟台灣的關係能夠有\n\n02:44.745 --> 02:52.432\n一些交流合作至於說中拉論壇我們外交部都有密切掌握所謂兩個友邦有代表前往因為它是中國跟拉共體之間的組織對組織的關係\n\n03:02.020 --> 03:18.209\n那這海地的方面因為它現在進行這一個可以說是正在處於臨時正譜的階段所以不會做出什麼決定那事前事後也都有跟我們溝通我們當然勸阻不過因為基於他們國家的考量\n\n03:18.629 --> 03:33.403\n所以我覺得在這次的掌握上都是能夠充分掌握至於說這個聖路西他不是由外交部長是其他政黨人士他們也有所說明\n\n03:34.404 --> 03:49.225\n那這個就是說呢我認為啦就是說這個當然因為中方故意在這邊又在講什麼一個中國原則啦什麼等等之類的這個當然會有一些影響但我在想的事情就是說因為其實520將至啦那在520呢中國其實動作一定會很多\n\n03:50.225 --> 04:07.970\n某大部分其實都是跟軍事有關我們最近也看到這個海巡相關的騷擾但是中國同樣的在520應該在外交上也會有所動作所以在這個時候它不一定是當然是除了這個接觸我們的邦交國之外它也有可能藉由這樣的一個新聞去炒作輿論然後又要講說什麼台灣外交部可能對外有所對外不利\n\n04:14.153 --> 04:33.646\n這個沒有好好照顧我們的邦交國等等之類的這樣的輿論可能也會傳出所以我覺得有可能在520之前外交部隊這個可能要做好準備做好準備是我們很早就準備因為中共會在我們總統就職週年在外交上挖我們牆角是可預期包括在國際組織上壓縮我們的空間包括2758號這個決議那對這些我們也因為都有\n\n04:40.831 --> 04:59.338\n事先的這個做好準備到目前為止都在我們掌握的情況之下希望沒有意外因為我覺得就是因為今天病情跟解凍是比較有關係所以我想說這個外交部對於520之前的一些所作所為可能對我們來講都是重要的一個監督範圍\n\n05:00.518 --> 05:30.238\n但裡面還有一個這我時間快到我有一個小地方就是之前我有在問這個NGO論壇那因為其實呢我那時候有提出一個某部分的凍結案到後來併案了那因為併案之後呢這個就沒有特別在這個解凍報告裡面來說明所以這邊可能想問一下部長就是說在接下來就是我們這幾年在舉辦類似的這種NGO論壇它的受眾還有它的這一個評估就是說我們今天要怎麼去評估說這個那個效益為何\n\n05:31.218 --> 05:58.345\n因為我們現在有很多NGO其實在國外是幫我們講話它是我們很重要的這個總和外交的一環那但是就是說呢我們現在要怎麼去評估然後它的參與者的回饋如何這個接下來的這一個未來的規劃大概是什麼樣子是NGO外交是我們總和外交很重要的一部分那比如是今年的玉山論壇我們也經過一些NGO代表還有智庫的代表有倡議要成立NGO中心在台灣\n\n06:01.167 --> 06:22.664\n做一個hub也能夠來協調促進更多的交流合作那當然今年很特別是因為川普政府對USAID的改組導致很多NGO運作困難我們也透過我們的管道跟我們的方式\n\n06:24.405 --> 06:38.795\n盡量的去協助能夠撐過這個危險的比較困難的時刻那NGO它的自主性很強議題範圍很廣這個也是代表民主社會才會有的所以我們在這方面會加強是因為相對於中國\n\n06:39.956 --> 07:07.254\n它是一個極權國家它不允許這些公民社團或組織的一個自主的存在所以這裡面我們也希望說NGO的事務會能夠扮演更大的我們像總和外交社會是各部會其實不同的議題因為他們的關切不一樣實際上是屬於各部會的業務只是都跟我們外交有關係所以我們會加強跟國內各部會的聯繫\n\n07:10.096 --> 07:32.282\n幫忙或者是說促進國內NGO的對外的交流畢竟他們才是主體那透過NGO外交來推動這個價值外交對其實我followup一個就是剛剛部長提到我覺得一個蠻重要的一點就是說因為NGO在這個補助上面在去年一直到今年其實都有遇到一定的困難我說在國際上\n\n07:33.582 --> 07:41.379\n所以我們都在民主基金會所以民主基金會一定程度的幫助其實對於我們要去能夠交到這些朋友無尼是重要的\n\n07:41.994 --> 08:06.386\n我也用這個機會跟委員報告當然包括民主基金會是跨黨派其實也在提案希望其實明年的預算可以增加因為在這個時刻在全世界最需要台灣的時候我們如果能夠增加預算現在的這個董事長是韓國瑜院長也是立法院各黨派都有代表我們希望來強化民主基金會的角色\n\n08:07.086 --> 08:34.136\n對因為像這個像我知道在東南亞可能有一些媒體它本來也是有一些NGO相關的資助但後來它也是因為這個樣子就是中國反而把手伸進來然後它想要去資助這些媒體也會有我剛剛講的像索羅門的那樣一個案件就是中國所資助的媒體在海外去散播這些訊息所以對我們來講就是說我們跟NGO之間的關係我們當然不能夠直接對媒體\n\n08:35.356 --> 08:51.504\n但我們跟NGO之間的關係很有很大的程度會影響到海外的這個輿論戰那這個部分我認為是重要的這個也拉回到我今天在最前面問的就是長佐的這個人事案因為他長期以來其實跟NGO跟I-NGO的關係其實非常好他也擔任過這個國際特赦的這個分會長\n\n08:54.685 --> 09:07.362\n所以我覺得藉由這一個人事的任命案我會認為是不是也要藉由這一個節點去把更多的NGO跟INGO拉進來那這樣的話對我們來交朋友來講一定會有更好的一個幫助\n\n09:09.128 --> 09:34.099\n是確實當然林委員他的背景除了音樂文化的方面的專長以外其實在人權的議題上面他也是這個國際特色組織台灣分會的會長也出席過各種國際的會議那我們希望當然總和外交是讓各方面都能夠走向世界另外我也跟委員報告其實以民主國家的經驗擔任過國會議員包括\n\n09:36.781 --> 09:55.684\n我想外交國安委會每一位立委其實都是具備擔任大使跟代表的條件我這講的是不分黨派因為國會議員他對國政很了解對行政部門監督所以大家當到外交的第一線的時候其實這個是民主的常態對希望能夠好好發揮謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.606,"end":2.187,"text":"謝謝主席,有請部長部長好委員長今天是解凍但是因為剛好這幾天有一件時事就是說芬蘭我們有新的人事的新聞那是不是可以請部長先稍微跟國人做一個簡單的說明"},{"start":26.956,"end":43.549,"text":"有關於外界關切林昶佐先生的人事案現在在辦理中因為大使的派任是由總統來決定總統府來公告所以這個作業程序在進行當中"},{"start":44.77,"end":54.443,"text":"因為這個我相信這個今天可能會有很多的問題都是這方面那就是這個但是因為這次解凍案所以我最主要還是針對解凍的事項來問一下那因為這一次有這個討論事項第四案就是說關於這一個"},{"start":60.309,"end":83.219,"text":"業務費凍結百分之五十然後呢到這個執行百分之三十才可以申請解凍啦我認為這個應該是蠻重要的一個因為畢竟這個影響到外館的經營然後再來就是它是還要經過院會所以呢我們是希望這個可以今天通過委員會那裡面有幾個細項我想要來問一下就是說第一個當然就是這個在上次因為上次部長有事但上次我問過這一個就是我們索羅門的議員"},{"start":85.02,"end":112.857,"text":"然後他遭到施壓然後他退出IPAC這樣的一個事情那上次我是著重在說他報導的這個報紙因為在這個整體作戰裡面這個報導的報紙其實也是中國投資的一個報紙但是相對於像這樣的一個情形就是議員遭受到施壓這是第一個第二個就是在這個中拉論壇我們的邦交國的出席其實對台灣也可能會有一定程度的影響那這個當然在外館的這個業務上面都變得蠻重要的是不是可以請部長說明一下"},{"start":113.857,"end":138.536,"text":"是有關於這兩個案子我想所門群島的因為不信任投票後來又撤回引起他們內閣的一些小幅的改組那有一些入閣的人士過去有參加IPAC那有這個方面那當然我們對於他放棄這個擔任這些共同主席相關的角色我們是當然表示遺憾那也了解這個中國的施壓那這個"},{"start":144.34,"end":158.283,"text":"方面我們會持續的努力來跟友好的國會議員跟政黨來保持聯繫然後也能夠促請未來跟台灣的關係能夠有"},{"start":164.745,"end":172.432,"text":"一些交流合作至於說中拉論壇我們外交部都有密切掌握所謂兩個友邦有代表前往因為它是中國跟拉共體之間的組織對組織的關係"},{"start":182.02,"end":198.209,"text":"那這海地的方面因為它現在進行這一個可以說是正在處於臨時正譜的階段所以不會做出什麼決定那事前事後也都有跟我們溝通我們當然勸阻不過因為基於他們國家的考量"},{"start":198.629,"end":213.403,"text":"所以我覺得在這次的掌握上都是能夠充分掌握至於說這個聖路西他不是由外交部長是其他政黨人士他們也有所說明"},{"start":214.404,"end":229.225,"text":"那這個就是說呢我認為啦就是說這個當然因為中方故意在這邊又在講什麼一個中國原則啦什麼等等之類的這個當然會有一些影響但我在想的事情就是說因為其實520將至啦那在520呢中國其實動作一定會很多"},{"start":230.225,"end":247.97,"text":"某大部分其實都是跟軍事有關我們最近也看到這個海巡相關的騷擾但是中國同樣的在520應該在外交上也會有所動作所以在這個時候它不一定是當然是除了這個接觸我們的邦交國之外它也有可能藉由這樣的一個新聞去炒作輿論然後又要講說什麼台灣外交部可能對外有所對外不利"},{"start":254.153,"end":273.646,"text":"這個沒有好好照顧我們的邦交國等等之類的這樣的輿論可能也會傳出所以我覺得有可能在520之前外交部隊這個可能要做好準備做好準備是 我們很早就準備因為中共會在我們總統就職週年在外交上挖我們牆角是可預期包括在國際組織上壓縮我們的空間包括2758號這個決議那對這些我們也因為都有"},{"start":280.831,"end":299.338,"text":"事先的這個做好準備到目前為止都在我們掌握的情況之下希望沒有意外因為我覺得就是因為今天病情跟解凍是比較有關係所以我想說這個外交部對於520之前的一些所作所為可能對我們來講都是重要的一個監督範圍"},{"start":300.518,"end":330.238,"text":"但裡面還有一個這我時間快到我有一個小地方就是之前我有在問這個NGO論壇那因為其實呢我那時候有提出一個某部分的凍結案到後來併案了那因為併案之後呢這個就沒有特別在這個解凍報告裡面來說明所以這邊可能想問一下部長就是說在接下來就是我們這幾年在舉辦類似的這種NGO論壇它的受眾還有它的這一個評估就是說我們今天要怎麼去評估說這個那個效益為何"},{"start":331.218,"end":358.345,"text":"因為我們現在有很多NGO其實在國外是幫我們講話它是我們很重要的這個總和外交的一環那但是就是說呢我們現在要怎麼去評估然後它的參與者的回饋如何這個接下來的這一個未來的規劃大概是什麼樣子是NGO外交是我們總和外交很重要的一部分那比如是今年的玉山論壇我們也經過一些NGO代表還有智庫的代表有倡議要成立NGO中心在台灣"},{"start":361.167,"end":382.664,"text":"做一個hub也能夠來協調促進更多的交流合作那當然今年很特別是因為川普政府對USAID的改組導致很多NGO運作困難我們也透過我們的管道跟我們的方式"},{"start":384.405,"end":398.795,"text":"盡量的去協助能夠撐過這個危險的比較困難的時刻那NGO它的自主性很強議題範圍很廣這個也是代表民主社會才會有的所以我們在這方面會加強是因為相對於中國"},{"start":399.956,"end":427.254,"text":"它是一個極權國家它不允許這些公民社團或組織的一個自主的存在所以這裡面我們也希望說NGO的事務會能夠扮演更大的我們像總和外交社會是各部會其實不同的議題因為他們的關切不一樣實際上是屬於各部會的業務只是都跟我們外交有關係所以我們會加強跟國內各部會的聯繫"},{"start":430.096,"end":452.282,"text":"幫忙或者是說促進國內NGO的對外的交流畢竟他們才是主體那透過NGO外交來推動這個價值外交對其實我follow up一個就是剛剛部長提到我覺得一個蠻重要的一點就是說因為NGO在這個補助上面在去年一直到今年其實都有遇到一定的困難我說在國際上"},{"start":453.582,"end":461.379,"text":"所以我們都在民主基金會所以民主基金會一定程度的幫助其實對於我們要去能夠交到這些朋友無尼是重要的"},{"start":461.994,"end":486.386,"text":"我也用這個機會跟委員報告當然包括民主基金會是跨黨派其實也在提案希望其實明年的預算可以增加因為在這個時刻在全世界最需要台灣的時候我們如果能夠增加預算現在的這個董事長是韓國瑜院長也是立法院各黨派都有代表我們希望來強化民主基金會的角色"},{"start":487.086,"end":514.136,"text":"對 因為像這個像我知道在東南亞可能有一些媒體它本來也是有一些NGO相關的資助但後來它也是因為這個樣子就是中國反而把手伸進來然後它想要去資助這些媒體也會有我剛剛講的像索羅門的那樣一個案件就是中國所資助的媒體在海外去散播這些訊息所以對我們來講就是說我們跟NGO之間的關係我們當然不能夠直接對媒體"},{"start":515.356,"end":531.504,"text":"但我們跟NGO之間的關係很有很大的程度會影響到海外的這個輿論戰那這個部分我認為是重要的這個也拉回到我今天在最前面問的就是長佐的這個人事案因為他長期以來其實跟NGO跟I-NGO的關係其實非常好他也擔任過這個國際特赦的這個分會長"},{"start":534.685,"end":547.362,"text":"所以我覺得藉由這一個人事的任命案我會認為是不是也要藉由這一個節點去把更多的NGO跟INGO拉進來那這樣的話對我們來交朋友來講一定會有更好的一個幫助"},{"start":549.128,"end":574.099,"text":"是 確實當然林委員他的背景除了音樂文化的方面的專長以外其實在人權的議題上面他也是這個國際特色組織台灣分會的會長也出席過各種國際的會議那我們希望當然總和外交是讓各方面都能夠走向世界另外我也跟委員報告其實以民主國家的經驗擔任過國會議員包括"},{"start":576.781,"end":595.684,"text":"我想外交國安委會每一位立委其實都是具備擔任大使跟代表的條件我這講的是不分黨派因為國會議員他對國政很了解對行政部門監督所以大家當到外交的第一線的時候其實這個是民主的常態對 希望能夠好好發揮謝謝部長 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":97,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（9時28分）謝謝主席。有請部長。","部長好。"],["林部長佳龍：委員早。"],["沈委員伯洋：今天是處理解凍，但是因為剛好這幾天有一件時事，就是在芬蘭，我們有新人事的新聞，是不是可以請部長先稍微跟國人做一個簡單的說明？"],["林部長佳龍：好，有關於外界關切林昶佐先生的這個人事案，現在在辦理中，因為大使的派任是由總統來決定，總統府來公告，所以這個作業程序在進行當中。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，我相信今天可能會有很多問題都是在這個方面。但是因為今天是處理解凍案，所以我最主要還是針對解凍的事項來問一下。因為這一次討論事項第4案，關於「業務費」凍結50%，到執行30%才可以申請解凍，我認為這個應該是蠻重要的一個，畢竟這個影響到外館的經營，再來，它還要經過院會，所以我們是希望今天委員會可以通過，裡面有幾個細項，我想要來問一下。","第一個，上次部長因為有事，所以沒有來，但上次我問過有關索羅門議員遭到施壓，要他退出IPAC這樣的事情，上次我是著重在報導的這個報紙，因為在這個整體作戰裡面，這個報導的報紙其實也是中國投資的報紙，但是相對於這樣的情形，就是議員遭受到施壓，這是第一個。第二個就是在中拉論壇我們邦交國的出席其實對臺灣也可能會有一定程度的影響，這個當然在外館的業務上面都蠻重要的。是不是可以請部長說明一下？"],["林部長佳龍：是，有關於這兩個案子，首先，索羅門群島因為不信任投票後來又撤回，引起他們內閣小幅改組，有一些入閣的人士過去有參加IPAC；對於他放棄擔任這個共同主席的相關角色，我們當然表示遺憾，也了解中國的施壓，我們會持續努力跟友好的國會議員及政黨保持聯繫，也促請未來跟臺灣的關係能夠有一些交流合作。","至於中拉論壇，它是中國跟拉共體之間組織對組織的關係，外交部都有密切掌握，有兩個友邦有代表前往。海地方面，因為他現在可以說是正處於臨時政府的階段，所以不會做出什麼決定，事前事後也都有跟我們溝通，我們當然勸阻，不過他們基於他們國家的考量，所以我覺得我們在這一次的掌握上都能夠充分掌握。至於聖露西亞，他不是由外交部長是其他政黨人士，他們也有所說明。"],["沈委員伯洋：我認為當然中方故意在這邊又在講一個中國原則等等之類的，這個當然會有一些影響，但我在想的事情是因為520將至，在520中國其實動作一定會很多，大部分都是跟軍事有關，我們最近也看到他們對我們海域的相關騷擾，同樣的，中國在520應該在外交上也會有所動作，這個時候除了接觸我們的邦交國之外，他還有可能藉由這樣的新聞去炒作輿論，又來講臺灣的外交部可能對外不力，沒有好好照顧邦交國等等之類的，這樣的輿論可能也會傳出，所以我覺得在520之前外交部對這個可能要做好準備、要做好準備。"],["林部長佳龍：是，我們很早就有準備，因為中共會在我們總統就職周年在外交上挖我們牆腳是可預期的，包括在國際組織上壓縮我們的空間，包括2758號決議，對於這些我們都有事先做好準備，到目前為止都在我們掌握的情況之下，希望沒有意外。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，我覺得今天的議程畢竟是跟解凍比較有關係，而外交部在520之前的所作所為對我們來講都是重要的監督範圍。但裡面還有一個，我時間快到了，我有一個小地方，就是之前我有在問有關NGO論壇，其實那時候我有提出某部分的凍結案，後來併案了，併案之後就沒有特別在這個解凍報告裡面來說明，所以想問一下部長，就是這幾年我們舉辦類似這種NGO論壇的受眾及它的評估，要怎麼去評估效益為何？因為現在有很多NGO在國外其實是幫我們講話的，他們是我們在總合外交很重要的一環，但是我們現在要怎麼去評估它的效益，還有它的參與者回饋如何，未來的規劃大概是什麼樣子？"],["林部長佳龍：NGO外交是我們總合外交很重要的一部分，比如今年的玉山論壇，我們也經過一些NGO代表，還有智庫代表，倡議要成立INGO中心在臺灣，就是設一個Hub，能夠來協調促進更多的交流合作。當然今年很特別是因為川普政府對USAID的改組，導致很多NGO運作困難，我們也透過我們的管道及方式儘量去協助，讓他們能夠撐過這個比較困難的時刻。NGO的自主性很強，議題範圍很廣，這也是民主社會才會有的，我們在這個方面會加強是因為相對於中國，他是一個集權國家，他不允許這些公民社團或組織的自主存在，我們也希望這個NGO的事務會能夠扮演更大的角色，我們也希望總合外交就是各部會一起，因為不同的議題他們關切的不一樣，實際上是屬於各部會的業務，只是都跟我們外交有關係，所以我們會加強跟國內各部會的聯繫，然後也會幫忙或促進國內NGO對外的交流，畢竟他們才是主體，透過NGO外交來推動價值外交。"],["沈委員伯洋：我follow up一個，剛剛部長提到我覺得蠻重要的一點，因為NGO在這一個補助上面，從去年一直到今年在國際上其實都有遇到一定的困難，我們都在民主基金會，所以民主基金會如果有一定程度的幫助，對於我們能夠交到這些朋友無疑是重要的。"],["林部長佳龍：我也用這個機會跟委員報告，民主基金會是跨黨派，其實也在提案希望明年的預算可以增加，因為在這個時刻是全世界最需要臺灣的時候，我們如果能夠增加預算，現在的董事長是韓國瑜院長，也是立法院各黨派都有代表，我們希望來強化民主基金會的角色。"],["沈委員伯洋：像我知道在東南亞可能有一些媒體，它本來也是有一些NGO相關的資助，但後來也是因為這個樣子，中國反而把手伸進來，他想要去資助這些媒體，也會有我剛剛講的像索羅門那樣的案件，就是中國所資助的媒體在海外去散播這一些訊息，所以對我們來講，我們當然不能夠直接對媒體，但我們跟NGO之間的關係有很大的程度會影響到海外的輿論戰，這個部分我認為是重要的，這個也拉回到我今天在最前面問的，就是林昶佐的人事案，因為他長期以來跟NGO、INGO的關係非常好，也擔任過國際特赦的分會長，所以我覺得藉由這一個人事的任命案，我會認為是不是也要藉由這一個節點去把更多的NGO跟INGO拉進來？這樣對我們交朋友一定會有更好的一個幫助。"],["林部長佳龍：是，確實，林委員他的背景除了音樂、文化這方面的專長以外，其實在人權的議題上面，他也是國際特赦組織臺灣分會的會長，也出席過各種國際的會議，我們總合外交希望各方面都能夠走向世界。","另外，我也跟委員報告，其實以民主國家的經驗，擔任過國會議員，我想包括外交及國防委員會的每一位立委，其實都具備擔任大使跟代表的條件，我這講的是不分黨派，因為國會議員對國政很了解、對行政部門監督，所以大家到外交的第一線，其實這個是民主的常態。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，希望能夠好好發揮，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝。"],["主席（馬委員文君代）：謝謝，接下來請黃仁黃召委上臺詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-15","speakers":["黃仁","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","馬文君","林楚茵","徐巧芯","賴士葆","王定宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅美玲","林憶君","王鴻薇","陳永康"],"page_start":319,"meetingDate":["2025-05-19"],"gazette_id":"1145001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145001_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等48案","agenda_id":"1145001_00014"}}}