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{\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 273.816, \"end\": 275.157, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 275.157, \"end\": 275.337, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 275.337, \"end\": 275.897, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 275.897, \"end\": 276.358, \"score\": 0.617}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 276.358, \"end\": 276.538, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 276.538, \"end\": 276.678, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"乎\", \"start\": 276.678, \"end\": 276.898, \"score\": 0.627}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 276.898, \"end\": 277.098, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 277.098, \"end\": 277.298, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 277.298, \"end\": 277.538, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 277.538, \"end\": 277.819, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 277.819, \"end\": 278.639, 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726.573, \"end\": 726.713, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 726.713, \"end\": 726.853, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 726.853, \"end\": 726.953, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 726.953, \"end\": 727.133, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 727.133, \"end\": 727.273, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 727.273, \"end\": 727.553, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 727.553, \"end\": 727.954, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 727.954, \"end\": 728.294, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 728.294, \"end\": 728.494, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 728.494, \"end\": 728.654, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 728.654, \"end\": 729.014, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 729.014, \"end\": 729.374, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 729.374, \"end\": 729.735, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 729.735, \"end\": 730.335, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 730.335, \"end\": 730.475, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 730.475, \"end\": 730.735, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 730.735, \"end\": 730.995, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 730.995, \"end\": 731.215, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 731.215, \"end\": 731.816, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 731.816, \"end\": 731.976, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 731.976, \"end\": 732.096, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 732.096, \"end\": 732.856, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"輾\"}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 732.856, \"end\": 733.597, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 733.597, \"end\": 733.737, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 733.737, \"end\": 734.577, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 734.577, \"end\": 734.837, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 734.837, \"end\": 735.338, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 735.338, \"end\": 735.878, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 735.878, \"end\": 736.278, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 736.278, \"end\": 736.538, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 736.538, \"end\": 736.838, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 736.838, \"end\": 737.019, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 737.019, \"end\": 737.179, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 737.179, \"end\": 737.339, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 737.339, \"end\": 737.459, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 737.459, \"end\": 737.639, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 737.639, \"end\": 737.779, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 737.779, \"end\": 737.959, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"失\", \"start\": 737.959, \"end\": 738.119, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 738.119, \"end\": 738.219, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 738.219, \"end\": 738.319, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 738.319, \"end\": 738.599, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"譬\", \"start\": 738.599, \"end\": 738.78, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 738.78, \"end\": 739.14, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 739.14, \"end\": 739.26, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 739.26, \"end\": 739.4, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"旅\", \"start\": 739.4, \"end\": 739.9, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 739.9, \"end\": 740.36, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 740.36, \"end\": 740.52, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 740.52, \"end\": 740.821, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 740.821, \"end\": 741.801, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"冊\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 741.801, \"end\": 741.941, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 741.941, \"end\": 742.081, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 742.081, \"end\": 742.121, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 742.121, \"end\": 742.301, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"絡\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 742.301, \"end\": 742.321, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 743.547, \"end\": 771.285, \"text\": \"那如果說這個特定的目的當是為了旅遊或者某一個特定目的或者期限屆滿這個屆滿的時候那個當然收集處理的那一位當然就要依主動或依當事人之請求刪除停止處理或利用個人資料但是如果執行職或業務所必須或經當事人署名同意那不再執行所以這個還是要看那個要看個案\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 743.547, \"end\": 743.687, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 743.687, \"end\": 743.827, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"果\", 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{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 894.635, \"end\": 894.775, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 894.775, \"end\": 894.895, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 894.895, \"end\": 894.975, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 894.975, \"end\": 895.135, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 895.135, \"end\": 895.495, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 895.495, \"end\": 896.096, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 896.096, \"end\": 896.196, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 896.196, \"end\": 896.216, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,762 --> 00:00:33,641\n好謝謝主席我們請法務部副局長麻煩法務部然後這個中選會的代表跟數位部的代表謝謝中選會好數法部委員長好還有調查局對好麻煩副局長\n\n2\n00:00:40,880 --> 00:01:03,435\n我先請教調查局的這個副局長先請教你的原因是因為你們的報告寫得最好這個把所謂的簡訊的分類寫得非常清楚簡訊的來源不是只有我們有手機號碼會收到各式各樣我們用網路購物獲到了也會收到簡訊各式各樣的這個分類\n\n3\n00:01:06,212 --> 00:01:35,328\n那我先想要請教一下就是說這一個發送簡訊啊發送簡訊的人有問題還是提供提供這個這個電話給發送簡訊的單位如果違反各執法是哪一個哪一個有問題報言這個可能要看事實的個案來做認定好我現在假設假設今天召委排了這個題目啊就是說有人收到了\n\n4\n00:01:37,372 --> 00:02:04,498\n這個簡訊那請他來參與連署嘛假設是這樣那請他參與連署那一定是一定是這個電信公司收到有人給了他一個名冊或者叫電話然後就丟給了這個電信公司付了錢給電信公司那電信公司就傳給了這個不管是手機收到簡訊的人那如果違反個資法那發送訊號發送訊息的這個電信公司有沒有事\n\n5\n00:02:05,953 --> 00:02:30,634\n那可能因為如果所有行為的分擔有翻譯的聯絡可能有共犯的問題但是像您講的這個狀況我們不知道他彼此之間聯繫的這個狀況所以還是要看個案的實際就是說我現在假設我有一千個電話號碼我就交給了假設叫中華電信我有一千個電話號碼我交給了中華電信請他幫我傳這些文字那中華電信有沒有事\n\n6\n00:02:31,846 --> 00:02:58,618\n中央電信他如果只是接受委託的話他可能在看起來是沒有犯罪的這個意圖也沒有跟他做一個犯罪行為分擔的這個狀況的話那從您講的這樣的表象看起來可能不會有犯罪的問題但是個案還是我們會如果有個案的犯罪我們還是提報到基金署好這個我了解了第二個請這個法務部部長\n\n7\n00:03:00,899 --> 00:03:25,414\n我們在選舉前或者是在罷免前我們都會收到請踴躍投票會吧應該會吧請踴躍投票就是不管是誰傳來的請踴躍投票那如果有人收到請不要去投票如果有人收到請去連署有人收到請不要去連署\n\n8\n00:03:26,770 --> 00:03:51,760\n這四種嘛只有我收到訊息請去投票請不要去投票請參與連署請不要參與連署這四件事情如果按照這個各執法是損害個人他人個人的利益的時候這四種文字哪一種會損害到個人的利益\n\n9\n00:03:53,741 --> 00:04:18,364\n最主要是因為他有那個電話電話的通訊的一個一個號碼所以他那個簡訊才會發到這些這些民眾的手裡對那所以這個是這怎麼那個那個個人資料是怎麼來的這個可能還要再去做一個了解但是我想這個應該是屬於各自法的問題這個收集處理利用這是一個怎麼是收集的\n\n10\n00:04:18,724 --> 00:04:39,880\n怎麼去處理對我知道這收集來處理嘛處理完之後我傳一個訊息給你嘛那是我個人認為我的利益受損我就可以去告發還是怎麼樣他那個如果說當然如果說用戶來講他認為有受損他認為有合乎各支法的那個41條或等其他的相關的規定的話\n\n11\n00:04:41,201 --> 00:05:07,894\n那當然可以去檢舉或者去做一個告發那這樣檢察官當然一辦案的就會依法來處理看來調查看會不會成立這個請中選會我剛剛提的那四個投票前有人通知你說請永樂投票或者是說這個反罷免的一方啊他說這個反正你們投票也不會超過25%啦請不要投票\n\n12\n00:05:09,636 --> 00:05:33,428\n或者現在還有在連署的請踴躍連署或者發一個訊息說請不要去連署這個中選會這四個你們管不管有沒有哪一個妨礙選舉包委員如果說是支持或反對罷免活動的話那我想這個都是罷免宣傳的一種態樣那除非說他那選舉呢\n\n13\n00:05:34,902 --> 00:05:59,771\n選舉也是一樣請不要投票這個我想這個請這個都是一種宣傳的一種行為都可以嗎像以前這個公投的時候啊就有人就什麼貼一個貼紙說請不要投就請不要投好所以這個對於這個訊息的內容基本上中選會不管我講了這四種你們不管\n\n14\n00:06:00,964 --> 00:06:15,629\n如果是宣傳的行為的話支持或是不支持我想這個都是宣傳行為的一種好所以這個宣傳說請不要投票請去投票請參加罷免請不要罷免對中選會來說這四個都沒有問題如果是單純的宣傳行為應該是沒有違法\n\n15\n00:06:20,717 --> 00:06:24,638\n除非有人非法利用他人的資料來傳送那非法就請教部長我最近收到叫我去驗車的通知\n\n16\n00:06:43,012 --> 00:06:54,517\n我當時去驗車的時候我留下資料的時候他也沒有說什麼五年後會聯絡我啊現在聯絡我的是好幾年前我去驗車的一個民間的代檢場啊他怎麼可以傳簡訊給我\n\n17\n00:07:00,510 --> 00:07:21,686\n可能就是那個代監場有那個客戶的一些的資料這是如何去蒐集當然我們這個就可以啦這個是在我們各執法裡面的規定像那個28條跟29條它裡面公務機關這個是應該是屬於29規公務機關違反本法規定自個人資料遭受不法蒐集處理利用其他\n\n18\n00:07:22,446 --> 00:07:44,640\n侵害當事人權利這個要負損害賠償責任但若證明無故意或過失不再直線所以這個有沒有這個還要做個案的做一個認定做一個認定那事實上整個一個太樣很多那這個是因為各自法的主管機關在一個解釋如何非法好說起處理用這個要個人資料保護\n\n19\n00:07:46,468 --> 00:07:52,411\n籌備處好那我們就有沒有代表來這個數位部的代表籌備處來請問一下不好意思請問一下我們現在去餐廳訂位子打電話去今天晚上八點王先生試會對方問我說請問手機號碼我就留給他了他只有問這樣我就會留給他大部分都這樣\n\n20\n00:08:16,938 --> 00:08:18,810\n過了一個月以後他傳了一個簡訊給我\n\n21\n00:08:21,614 --> 00:08:48,916\n說欸歡迎你再來吃啦我們最近打五折我沒有答應他再傳給我啊這樣有沒有違反個資法是因為一開始如果說是在定位的時候他可能會是有一個契約或類似契約的關係那這個時候依照個資法的規定他是可以蒐集必要的個人資料例如手機號碼但是之後他如果要做行銷之用的話其實還是需要經過當事人的同意才能夠做這個行銷你在說什麼這條就嚴重了\n\n22\n00:08:51,394 --> 00:08:53,497\n這條這麼嚴重你今天講完之後這事情還蠻嚴重的我們打電話去餐廳他都問我電話號碼嘛這合理嘛我們好像覺得很合理啦因為我剛剛講說我不要給你電話\n\n23\n00:09:04,568 --> 00:09:33,315\n他說那我沒辦法讓你定位喔那我就留電話給你了那留了電話給你之後他也許時間到了我遲到5分鐘他會轉簡訊給我說你遲到你到底有沒有要來對不對過了一個月之後他給我行銷了嘛他給我行銷那給我行銷這個動作在你們現在的認定裡頭他也沒有徵得我同意嘛他就是在電話中我也沒有看那個熱熱等的文字嘛我們有時候去簽一大堆他叫我看一堆文字然後說什麼保護啊這樣\n\n24\n00:09:34,375 --> 00:09:42,359\n那現在他如果這種情形他又傳給了消費者有人去檢舉說我上次去吃完之後他又傳簡訊給我你們要怎麼處理\n\n25\n00:09:44,718 --> 00:10:13,522\n就依照目前以往不管是在法務部或是國發會或是我們現在籌備處的韓式的見解就是說當你在做行銷的時候因為它跟一開始它是接受定位的這樣的一個目的是有一點不太一樣的那因為它是不同的目的所以它其實是需要額外在經過當事人的同意說我願意讓你用我的電話號碼做行銷那如果說沒有這樣的一個同意的話基本上確實可能會有違反各自法的這個疑慮\n\n26\n00:10:14,022 --> 00:10:21,436\n唉唷,那這個事情就麻煩了,這個再請法務部或司法院,大家開一下會,因為這個會很普遍。\n\n27\n00:10:22,575 --> 00:10:48,681\n會很普遍啦我們一般消費者就留電話給人家嘛那留了之後以後又收到如果我不開心了我可不可以去告發他說你又沒有徵得我同意你怎麼老是傳簡訊給我好最後一個我們參加活動愛情部長我們參加活動會留下很多的資料參加社團坐遊覽車保險旅遊都會留下蠻多跟個人資訊有關的這個訊息啦\n\n28\n00:10:51,277 --> 00:11:10,228\n那如果這一個剛剛講這個電信公司收到了一組電話號碼假設一千個電話號碼然後他就幫我傳了一個訊息可是這一千組的電話號碼我交給電信公司的時候就是這個委託人交給電信公司的時候其實他也不知道那一千組哪裡來的\n\n29\n00:11:12,025 --> 00:11:28,555\n因為一千組可能是攬攬攬攬攬一通就對了本來這個社團已經二十年了這個社團都有這些社員的名冊或各式各樣的社團的名冊那這個已經攬攬攬攬攬了很久之後大家也都一直傳一傳就沒有事啊結果呢\n\n30\n00:11:31,676 --> 00:11:47,573\n這是有人告發假設啦假設他不知道為什麼目的他告發說欸你怎麼有我的電話碼你怎麼傳簡訊給我未必是跟政治有關啦就是一般的這樣子那如果有人去告發了那回頭去找這個提供電話的人啦\n\n31\n00:11:48,554 --> 00:11:52,799\n啊你如果有這個電話,你如果拿到中華電信給你傳訊,這個電話對對來這個承辦人可能說,這個電話我們社團已經二三十年了,就都這個電話啊結果這個提供的人,現在也許會出事嘛對不對\n\n32\n00:12:04,011 --> 00:12:22,321\n這部分事實上因為提供說不定可能就是一個收集保有這些個人資料的最原始的那個或者是輾轉來的那剛才11條的話是個人資料的收集的特定目的消失所以本來譬如說我們為了旅行做一個名冊裡面有一些聯絡資料\n\n33\n00:12:23,547 --> 00:12:51,285\n那如果說這個特定的目的當是為了旅遊或者某一個特定目的或者期限屆滿這個屆滿的時候那個當然收集處理的那一位當然就要依主動或依當事人之請求刪除停止處理或利用個人資料但是如果執行職或業務所必須或經當事人署名同意那不再執行所以這個還是要看那個要看個案\n\n34\n00:12:52,345 --> 00:13:07,751\n個案來處理有沒有同意或者有沒有那個個案的情形這個有一條界線啦你想說我常常收到我以前是台中嘛收到台中很多的市議員叫我沒感動的還有以前的議長祝我生日快樂我當然可能有留電話給他我名片有留電話給他可是我現在叫他不好啊我現在跟他不好了\n\n35\n00:13:17,932 --> 00:13:46,131\n那他傳給我生日快樂我覺得你怎麼會有我的電話號碼他那個事實上據各自法也不是都是因為他第一條裡面就有規定這個因為他是做一個平衡他自己是為了規範個人資料的蒐集處理利用以避免人格而前受到侵害並促進個人資料的合理使用還有那個合理使用所以如果有些資料說祝你生日快樂我是認為是沒有\n\n36\n00:13:49,533 --> 00:14:02,962\n電話號碼是一個經營社會生活必要的工具就像我們這個連,這個都是屬於個人的所以這都是屬於個人資料的有些的一個範圍我舉這個例子只是說因為我們到處都會留下我們的電話號碼\n\n37\n00:14:12,288 --> 00:14:35,348\n我們也常常收到簡訊我們也不知道那個簡訊是我在哪裡留下電話號碼而收到的簡訊所以個人的利益受損或者是他不當的利用這些資料的這一條界線可能也要有一個清楚讓民眾知道像剛剛提到說我去餐廳訂餐廳這間餐廳兩三個月架一個行銷方案給我\n\n38\n00:14:40,748 --> 00:14:56,216\n中間那條線搞不好有跨過去因為他也沒有我書面同意諸如此類的事情我覺得這個可能相關的單位找個機會給民眾一個共同的答案讓大家包括商家也可以有一個依詢以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12762\t33641\t好 謝謝主席 我們請法務部副局長麻煩法務部然後這個中選會的代表跟數位部的代表 謝謝中選會 好 數法部委員長好還有調查局 對好 麻煩副局長\n40880\t63435\t我先請教調查局的這個副局長先請教你的原因是因為你們的報告寫得最好這個把所謂的簡訊的分類寫得非常清楚簡訊的來源不是只有我們有手機號碼會收到各式各樣我們用網路購物獲到了也會收到簡訊各式各樣的這個分類\n66212\t95328\t那我先想要請教一下就是說這一個發送簡訊啊發送簡訊的人有問題還是提供提供這個這個電話給發送簡訊的單位如果違反各執法是哪一個哪一個有問題報言這個可能要看事實的個案來做認定好我現在假設假設今天召委排了這個題目啊就是說有人收到了\n97372\t124498\t這個簡訊那請他來參與連署嘛假設是這樣那請他參與連署那一定是一定是這個電信公司收到有人給了他一個名冊或者叫電話然後就丟給了這個電信公司付了錢給電信公司那電信公司就傳給了這個不管是手機收到簡訊的人那如果違反個資法那發送訊號發送訊息的這個電信公司有沒有事\n125953\t150634\t那可能因為如果所有行為的分擔有翻譯的聯絡可能有共犯的問題但是像您講的這個狀況我們不知道他彼此之間聯繫的這個狀況所以還是要看個案的實際就是說我現在假設我有一千個電話號碼我就交給了假設叫中華電信我有一千個電話號碼我交給了中華電信請他幫我傳這些文字那中華電信有沒有事\n151846\t178618\t中央電信他如果只是接受委託的話他可能在看起來是沒有犯罪的這個意圖也沒有跟他做一個犯罪行為分擔的這個狀況的話那從您講的這樣的表象看起來可能不會有犯罪的問題但是個案還是我們會如果有個案的犯罪我們還是提報到基金署好 這個我了解了第二個請這個法務部部長\n180899\t205414\t我們在選舉前 或者是在罷免前我們都會收到 請踴躍投票會吧 應該會吧 請踴躍投票就是不管是誰傳來的 請踴躍投票那如果有人收到 請不要去投票如果有人收到 請去連署有人收到 請不要去連署\n206770\t231760\t這四種嘛 只有我收到訊息 請去投票 請不要去投票 請參與連署 請不要參與連署這四件事情 如果按照這個各執法是損害個人 他人個人的利益的時候這四種文字 哪一種會損害到個人的利益\n233741\t258364\t最主要是因為他有那個電話電話的通訊的一個一個號碼所以他那個簡訊才會發到這些這些民眾的手裡對那所以這個是這怎麼那個那個個人資料是怎麼來的這個可能還要再去做一個了解但是我想這個應該是屬於各自法的問題這個收集處理利用這是一個怎麼是收集的\n258724\t279880\t怎麼去處理對 我知道 這收集來處理嘛處理完之後我傳一個訊息給你嘛那是我個人認為我的利益受損我就可以去告發還是怎麼樣他那個如果說當然如果說用戶來講他認為有受損他認為有合乎各支法的那個41條或等其他的相關的規定的話\n281201\t307894\t那當然可以去檢舉或者去做一個告發那這樣檢察官當然一辦案的就會依法來處理看來調查看會不會成立這個請中選會我剛剛提的那四個投票前有人通知你說請永樂投票或者是說這個反罷免的一方啊他說這個反正你們投票也不會超過25%啦請不要投票\n309636\t333428\t或者現在還有在連署的請踴躍連署或者發一個訊息說請不要去連署這個中選會這四個你們管不管有沒有哪一個妨礙選舉包委員如果說是支持或反對罷免活動的話那我想這個都是罷免宣傳的一種態樣那除非說他那選舉呢\n334902\t359771\t選舉也是一樣請不要投票這個我想這個請這個都是一種宣傳的一種行為都可以嗎像以前這個公投的時候啊就有人就什麼貼一個貼紙說請不要投就請不要投好所以這個對於這個訊息的內容基本上中選會不管我講了這四種你們不管\n360964\t375629\t如果是宣傳的行為的話 支持或是不支持我想這個都是宣傳行為的一種好所以這個宣傳說請不要投票請去投票請參加罷免請不要罷免對中選會來說這四個都沒有問題如果是單純的宣傳行為應該是沒有違法\n380717\t384638\t除非有人非法利用他人的資料來傳送那非法就請教部長我最近收到叫我去驗車的通知\n403012\t414517\t我當時去驗車的時候我留下資料的時候他也沒有說什麼五年後會聯絡我啊現在聯絡我的是好幾年前我去驗車的一個民間的代檢場啊他怎麼可以傳簡訊給我\n420510\t441686\t可能就是那個代監場有那個客戶的一些的資料這是如何去蒐集當然我們這個就可以啦這個是在我們各執法裡面的規定像那個28條跟29條它裡面公務機關這個是應該是屬於29規公務機關違反本法規定自個人資料遭受不法蒐集處理利用其他\n442446\t464640\t侵害當事人權利這個要負損害賠償責任但若證明無故意或過失不再直線所以這個有沒有這個還要做個案的做一個認定做一個認定那事實上整個一個太樣很多那這個是因為各自法的主管機關在一個解釋如何非法好 說起處理用這個要個人資料保護\n466468\t472411\t籌備處好那我們就有沒有代表來這個數位部的代表籌備處來請問一下不好意思請問一下我們現在去餐廳訂位子打電話去今天晚上八點王先生試會對方問我說請問手機號碼我就留給他了他只有問這樣我就會留給他大部分都這樣\n496938\t498810\t過了一個月以後他傳了一個簡訊給我\n501614\t528916\t說 欸 歡迎你再來吃啦 我們最近打五折我沒有答應他再傳給我啊這樣有沒有違反個資法是 因為一開始如果說是在定位的時候他可能會是有一個契約或類似契約的關係那這個時候依照個資法的規定他是可以蒐集必要的個人資料例如手機號碼但是 之後他如果要做行銷之用的話其實還是需要經過當事人的同意才能夠做這個行銷你在說什麼 這條就嚴重了\n531394\t533497\t這條這麼嚴重你今天講完之後這事情還蠻嚴重的我們打電話去餐廳他都問我電話號碼嘛這合理嘛我們好像覺得很合理啦因為我剛剛講說我不要給你電話\n544568\t573315\t他說那我沒辦法讓你定位喔那我就留電話給你了那留了電話給你之後他也許時間到了我遲到5分鐘他會轉簡訊給我說你遲到你到底有沒有要來對不對過了一個月之後他給我行銷了嘛他給我行銷那給我行銷這個動作在你們現在的認定裡頭他也沒有徵得我同意嘛他就是在電話中我也沒有看那個熱熱等的文字嘛我們有時候去簽一大堆他叫我看一堆文字然後說什麼保護啊這樣\n574375\t582359\t那現在他如果這種情形 他又傳給了消費者有人去檢舉說 我上次去吃完之後 他又傳簡訊給我 你們要怎麼處理\n584718\t613522\t就依照目前以往不管是在法務部或是國發會或是我們現在籌備處的韓式的見解就是說當你在做行銷的時候因為它跟一開始它是接受定位的這樣的一個目的是有一點不太一樣的那因為它是不同的目的所以它其實是需要額外在經過當事人的同意說我願意讓你用我的電話號碼做行銷那如果說沒有這樣的一個同意的話基本上確實可能會有違反各自法的這個疑慮\n614022\t621436\t唉唷,那這個事情就麻煩了,這個再請法務部或司法院,大家開一下會,因為這個會很普遍。\n622575\t648681\t會很普遍啦 我們一般消費者就留電話給人家嘛那留了之後以後又收到如果我不開心了我可不可以去告發他說你又沒有徵得我同意你怎麼老是傳簡訊給我好 最後一個我們參加活動 愛情部長我們參加活動會留下很多的資料參加社團 坐遊覽車 保險 旅遊都會留下蠻多跟個人資訊有關的這個訊息啦\n651277\t670228\t那如果這一個剛剛講這個電信公司收到了一組電話號碼假設一千個電話號碼然後他就幫我傳了一個訊息可是這一千組的電話號碼我交給電信公司的時候就是這個委託人交給電信公司的時候其實他也不知道那一千組哪裡來的\n672025\t688555\t因為一千組可能是攬攬攬攬攬一通就對了本來這個社團已經二十年了這個社團都有這些社員的名冊或各式各樣的社團的名冊那這個已經攬攬攬攬攬了很久之後大家也都一直傳一傳就沒有事啊結果呢\n691676\t707573\t這是有人告發 假設啦 假設他不知道為什麼 目的他告發說 欸 你怎麼有我的電話碼 你怎麼傳簡訊給我未必是跟政治有關啦 就是一般的這樣子那如果有人去告發了 那回頭去找這個提供電話的人啦\n708554\t712799\t啊你如果有這個電話,你如果拿到中華電信給你傳訊,這個電話對對來這個承辦人可能說,這個電話我們社團已經二三十年了,就都這個電話啊結果這個提供的人,現在也許會出事嘛對不對\n724011\t742321\t這部分事實上因為提供說不定可能就是一個收集保有這些個人資料的最原始的那個或者是輾轉來的那剛才11條的話是個人資料的收集的特定目的消失所以本來譬如說我們為了旅行做一個名冊裡面有一些聯絡資料\n743547\t771285\t那如果說這個特定的目的當是為了旅遊或者某一個特定目的或者期限屆滿這個屆滿的時候那個當然收集處理的那一位當然就要依主動或依當事人之請求刪除停止處理或利用個人資料但是如果執行職或業務所必須或經當事人署名同意那不再執行所以這個還是要看那個要看個案\n772345\t787751\t個案來處理有沒有同意或者有沒有那個個案的情形這個有一條界線啦你想說我常常收到我以前是台中嘛收到台中很多的市議員叫我沒感動的還有以前的議長祝我生日快樂我當然可能有留電話給他我名片有留電話給他可是我現在叫他不好啊我現在跟他不好了\n797932\t826131\t那他傳給我生日快樂我覺得你怎麼會有我的電話號碼他那個事實上據各自法也不是都是因為他第一條裡面就有規定這個因為他是做一個平衡他自己是為了規範個人資料的蒐集處理利用以避免人格而前受到侵害並促進個人資料的合理使用還有那個合理使用所以如果有些資料說祝你生日快樂我是認為是沒有\n829533\t842962\t電話號碼是一個經營社會生活必要的工具就像我們這個連,這個都是屬於個人的所以這都是屬於個人資料的有些的一個範圍我舉這個例子只是說因為我們到處都會留下我們的電話號碼\n852288\t875348\t我們也常常收到簡訊我們也不知道那個簡訊是我在哪裡留下電話號碼而收到的簡訊所以個人的利益受損或者是他不當的利用這些資料的這一條界線可能也要有一個清楚讓民眾知道像剛剛提到說我去餐廳訂餐廳這間餐廳兩三個月架一個行銷方案給我\n880748\t896216\t中間那條線搞不好有跨過去因為他也沒有我書面同意諸如此類的事情我覺得這個可能相關的單位找個機會給民眾一個共同的答案讓大家包括商家也可以有一個依詢以上 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請法務部副局長麻煩法務部然後這個中選會的代表跟數位部的代表 謝謝中選會 好 數法部委員長好還有調查局 對好 麻煩副局長\n我先請教調查局的這個副局長先請教你的原因是因為你們的報告寫得最好這個把所謂的簡訊的分類寫得非常清楚簡訊的來源不是只有我們有手機號碼會收到各式各樣我們用網路購物獲到了也會收到簡訊各式各樣的這個分類\n那我先想要請教一下就是說這一個發送簡訊啊發送簡訊的人有問題還是提供提供這個這個電話給發送簡訊的單位如果違反各執法是哪一個哪一個有問題報言這個可能要看事實的個案來做認定好我現在假設假設今天召委排了這個題目啊就是說有人收到了\n這個簡訊那請他來參與連署嘛假設是這樣那請他參與連署那一定是一定是這個電信公司收到有人給了他一個名冊或者叫電話然後就丟給了這個電信公司付了錢給電信公司那電信公司就傳給了這個不管是手機收到簡訊的人那如果違反個資法那發送訊號發送訊息的這個電信公司有沒有事\n那可能因為如果所有行為的分擔有翻譯的聯絡可能有共犯的問題但是像您講的這個狀況我們不知道他彼此之間聯繫的這個狀況所以還是要看個案的實際就是說我現在假設我有一千個電話號碼我就交給了假設叫中華電信我有一千個電話號碼我交給了中華電信請他幫我傳這些文字那中華電信有沒有事\n中央電信他如果只是接受委託的話他可能在看起來是沒有犯罪的這個意圖也沒有跟他做一個犯罪行為分擔的這個狀況的話那從您講的這樣的表象看起來可能不會有犯罪的問題但是個案還是我們會如果有個案的犯罪我們還是提報到基金署好 這個我了解了第二個請這個法務部部長\n我們在選舉前 或者是在罷免前我們都會收到 請踴躍投票會吧 應該會吧 請踴躍投票就是不管是誰傳來的 請踴躍投票那如果有人收到 請不要去投票如果有人收到 請去連署有人收到 請不要去連署\n這四種嘛 只有我收到訊息 請去投票 請不要去投票 請參與連署 請不要參與連署這四件事情 如果按照這個各執法是損害個人 他人個人的利益的時候這四種文字 哪一種會損害到個人的利益\n最主要是因為他有那個電話電話的通訊的一個一個號碼所以他那個簡訊才會發到這些這些民眾的手裡對那所以這個是這怎麼那個那個個人資料是怎麼來的這個可能還要再去做一個了解但是我想這個應該是屬於各自法的問題這個收集處理利用這是一個怎麼是收集的\n怎麼去處理對 我知道 這收集來處理嘛處理完之後我傳一個訊息給你嘛那是我個人認為我的利益受損我就可以去告發還是怎麼樣他那個如果說當然如果說用戶來講他認為有受損他認為有合乎各支法的那個41條或等其他的相關的規定的話\n那當然可以去檢舉或者去做一個告發那這樣檢察官當然一辦案的就會依法來處理看來調查看會不會成立這個請中選會我剛剛提的那四個投票前有人通知你說請永樂投票或者是說這個反罷免的一方啊他說這個反正你們投票也不會超過25%啦請不要投票\n或者現在還有在連署的請踴躍連署或者發一個訊息說請不要去連署這個中選會這四個你們管不管有沒有哪一個妨礙選舉包委員如果說是支持或反對罷免活動的話那我想這個都是罷免宣傳的一種態樣那除非說他那選舉呢\n選舉也是一樣請不要投票這個我想這個請這個都是一種宣傳的一種行為都可以嗎像以前這個公投的時候啊就有人就什麼貼一個貼紙說請不要投就請不要投好所以這個對於這個訊息的內容基本上中選會不管我講了這四種你們不管\n如果是宣傳的行為的話 支持或是不支持我想這個都是宣傳行為的一種好所以這個宣傳說請不要投票請去投票請參加罷免請不要罷免對中選會來說這四個都沒有問題如果是單純的宣傳行為應該是沒有違法\n除非有人非法利用他人的資料來傳送那非法就請教部長我最近收到叫我去驗車的通知\n我當時去驗車的時候我留下資料的時候他也沒有說什麼五年後會聯絡我啊現在聯絡我的是好幾年前我去驗車的一個民間的代檢場啊他怎麼可以傳簡訊給我\n可能就是那個代監場有那個客戶的一些的資料這是如何去蒐集當然我們這個就可以啦這個是在我們各執法裡面的規定像那個28條跟29條它裡面公務機關這個是應該是屬於29規公務機關違反本法規定自個人資料遭受不法蒐集處理利用其他\n侵害當事人權利這個要負損害賠償責任但若證明無故意或過失不再直線所以這個有沒有這個還要做個案的做一個認定做一個認定那事實上整個一個太樣很多那這個是因為各自法的主管機關在一個解釋如何非法好 說起處理用這個要個人資料保護\n籌備處好那我們就有沒有代表來這個數位部的代表籌備處來請問一下不好意思請問一下我們現在去餐廳訂位子打電話去今天晚上八點王先生試會對方問我說請問手機號碼我就留給他了他只有問這樣我就會留給他大部分都這樣\n過了一個月以後他傳了一個簡訊給我\n說 欸 歡迎你再來吃啦 我們最近打五折我沒有答應他再傳給我啊這樣有沒有違反個資法是 因為一開始如果說是在定位的時候他可能會是有一個契約或類似契約的關係那這個時候依照個資法的規定他是可以蒐集必要的個人資料例如手機號碼但是 之後他如果要做行銷之用的話其實還是需要經過當事人的同意才能夠做這個行銷你在說什麼 這條就嚴重了\n這條這麼嚴重你今天講完之後這事情還蠻嚴重的我們打電話去餐廳他都問我電話號碼嘛這合理嘛我們好像覺得很合理啦因為我剛剛講說我不要給你電話\n他說那我沒辦法讓你定位喔那我就留電話給你了那留了電話給你之後他也許時間到了我遲到5分鐘他會轉簡訊給我說你遲到你到底有沒有要來對不對過了一個月之後他給我行銷了嘛他給我行銷那給我行銷這個動作在你們現在的認定裡頭他也沒有徵得我同意嘛他就是在電話中我也沒有看那個熱熱等的文字嘛我們有時候去簽一大堆他叫我看一堆文字然後說什麼保護啊這樣\n那現在他如果這種情形 他又傳給了消費者有人去檢舉說 我上次去吃完之後 他又傳簡訊給我 你們要怎麼處理\n就依照目前以往不管是在法務部或是國發會或是我們現在籌備處的韓式的見解就是說當你在做行銷的時候因為它跟一開始它是接受定位的這樣的一個目的是有一點不太一樣的那因為它是不同的目的所以它其實是需要額外在經過當事人的同意說我願意讓你用我的電話號碼做行銷那如果說沒有這樣的一個同意的話基本上確實可能會有違反各自法的這個疑慮\n唉唷,那這個事情就麻煩了,這個再請法務部或司法院,大家開一下會,因為這個會很普遍。\n會很普遍啦 我們一般消費者就留電話給人家嘛那留了之後以後又收到如果我不開心了我可不可以去告發他說你又沒有徵得我同意你怎麼老是傳簡訊給我好 最後一個我們參加活動 愛情部長我們參加活動會留下很多的資料參加社團 坐遊覽車 保險 旅遊都會留下蠻多跟個人資訊有關的這個訊息啦\n那如果這一個剛剛講這個電信公司收到了一組電話號碼假設一千個電話號碼然後他就幫我傳了一個訊息可是這一千組的電話號碼我交給電信公司的時候就是這個委託人交給電信公司的時候其實他也不知道那一千組哪裡來的\n因為一千組可能是攬攬攬攬攬一通就對了本來這個社團已經二十年了這個社團都有這些社員的名冊或各式各樣的社團的名冊那這個已經攬攬攬攬攬了很久之後大家也都一直傳一傳就沒有事啊結果呢\n這是有人告發 假設啦 假設他不知道為什麼 目的他告發說 欸 你怎麼有我的電話碼 你怎麼傳簡訊給我未必是跟政治有關啦 就是一般的這樣子那如果有人去告發了 那回頭去找這個提供電話的人啦\n啊你如果有這個電話,你如果拿到中華電信給你傳訊,這個電話對對來這個承辦人可能說,這個電話我們社團已經二三十年了,就都這個電話啊結果這個提供的人,現在也許會出事嘛對不對\n這部分事實上因為提供說不定可能就是一個收集保有這些個人資料的最原始的那個或者是輾轉來的那剛才11條的話是個人資料的收集的特定目的消失所以本來譬如說我們為了旅行做一個名冊裡面有一些聯絡資料\n那如果說這個特定的目的當是為了旅遊或者某一個特定目的或者期限屆滿這個屆滿的時候那個當然收集處理的那一位當然就要依主動或依當事人之請求刪除停止處理或利用個人資料但是如果執行職或業務所必須或經當事人署名同意那不再執行所以這個還是要看那個要看個案\n個案來處理有沒有同意或者有沒有那個個案的情形這個有一條界線啦你想說我常常收到我以前是台中嘛收到台中很多的市議員叫我沒感動的還有以前的議長祝我生日快樂我當然可能有留電話給他我名片有留電話給他可是我現在叫他不好啊我現在跟他不好了\n那他傳給我生日快樂我覺得你怎麼會有我的電話號碼他那個事實上據各自法也不是都是因為他第一條裡面就有規定這個因為他是做一個平衡他自己是為了規範個人資料的蒐集處理利用以避免人格而前受到侵害並促進個人資料的合理使用還有那個合理使用所以如果有些資料說祝你生日快樂我是認為是沒有\n電話號碼是一個經營社會生活必要的工具就像我們這個連,這個都是屬於個人的所以這都是屬於個人資料的有些的一個範圍我舉這個例子只是說因為我們到處都會留下我們的電話號碼\n我們也常常收到簡訊我們也不知道那個簡訊是我在哪裡留下電話號碼而收到的簡訊所以個人的利益受損或者是他不當的利用這些資料的這一條界線可能也要有一個清楚讓民眾知道像剛剛提到說我去餐廳訂餐廳這間餐廳兩三個月架一個行銷方案給我\n中間那條線搞不好有跨過去因為他也沒有我書面同意諸如此類的事情我覺得這個可能相關的單位找個機會給民眾一個共同的答案讓大家包括商家也可以有一個依詢以上 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.762 --> 00:33.641\n好謝謝主席我們請法務部副局長麻煩法務部然後這個中選會的代表跟數位部的代表謝謝中選會好數法部委員長好還有調查局對好麻煩副局長\n\n00:40.880 --> 01:03.435\n我先請教調查局的這個副局長先請教你的原因是因為你們的報告寫得最好這個把所謂的簡訊的分類寫得非常清楚簡訊的來源不是只有我們有手機號碼會收到各式各樣我們用網路購物獲到了也會收到簡訊各式各樣的這個分類\n\n01:06.212 --> 01:35.328\n那我先想要請教一下就是說這一個發送簡訊啊發送簡訊的人有問題還是提供提供這個這個電話給發送簡訊的單位如果違反各執法是哪一個哪一個有問題報言這個可能要看事實的個案來做認定好我現在假設假設今天召委排了這個題目啊就是說有人收到了\n\n01:37.372 --> 02:04.498\n這個簡訊那請他來參與連署嘛假設是這樣那請他參與連署那一定是一定是這個電信公司收到有人給了他一個名冊或者叫電話然後就丟給了這個電信公司付了錢給電信公司那電信公司就傳給了這個不管是手機收到簡訊的人那如果違反個資法那發送訊號發送訊息的這個電信公司有沒有事\n\n02:05.953 --> 02:30.634\n那可能因為如果所有行為的分擔有翻譯的聯絡可能有共犯的問題但是像您講的這個狀況我們不知道他彼此之間聯繫的這個狀況所以還是要看個案的實際就是說我現在假設我有一千個電話號碼我就交給了假設叫中華電信我有一千個電話號碼我交給了中華電信請他幫我傳這些文字那中華電信有沒有事\n\n02:31.846 --> 02:58.618\n中央電信他如果只是接受委託的話他可能在看起來是沒有犯罪的這個意圖也沒有跟他做一個犯罪行為分擔的這個狀況的話那從您講的這樣的表象看起來可能不會有犯罪的問題但是個案還是我們會如果有個案的犯罪我們還是提報到基金署好這個我了解了第二個請這個法務部部長\n\n03:00.899 --> 03:25.414\n我們在選舉前或者是在罷免前我們都會收到請踴躍投票會吧應該會吧請踴躍投票就是不管是誰傳來的請踴躍投票那如果有人收到請不要去投票如果有人收到請去連署有人收到請不要去連署\n\n03:26.770 --> 03:51.760\n這四種嘛只有我收到訊息請去投票請不要去投票請參與連署請不要參與連署這四件事情如果按照這個各執法是損害個人他人個人的利益的時候這四種文字哪一種會損害到個人的利益\n\n03:53.741 --> 04:18.364\n最主要是因為他有那個電話電話的通訊的一個一個號碼所以他那個簡訊才會發到這些這些民眾的手裡對那所以這個是這怎麼那個那個個人資料是怎麼來的這個可能還要再去做一個了解但是我想這個應該是屬於各自法的問題這個收集處理利用這是一個怎麼是收集的\n\n04:18.724 --> 04:39.880\n怎麼去處理對我知道這收集來處理嘛處理完之後我傳一個訊息給你嘛那是我個人認為我的利益受損我就可以去告發還是怎麼樣他那個如果說當然如果說用戶來講他認為有受損他認為有合乎各支法的那個41條或等其他的相關的規定的話\n\n04:41.201 --> 05:07.894\n那當然可以去檢舉或者去做一個告發那這樣檢察官當然一辦案的就會依法來處理看來調查看會不會成立這個請中選會我剛剛提的那四個投票前有人通知你說請永樂投票或者是說這個反罷免的一方啊他說這個反正你們投票也不會超過25%啦請不要投票\n\n05:09.636 --> 05:33.428\n或者現在還有在連署的請踴躍連署或者發一個訊息說請不要去連署這個中選會這四個你們管不管有沒有哪一個妨礙選舉包委員如果說是支持或反對罷免活動的話那我想這個都是罷免宣傳的一種態樣那除非說他那選舉呢\n\n05:34.902 --> 05:59.771\n選舉也是一樣請不要投票這個我想這個請這個都是一種宣傳的一種行為都可以嗎像以前這個公投的時候啊就有人就什麼貼一個貼紙說請不要投就請不要投好所以這個對於這個訊息的內容基本上中選會不管我講了這四種你們不管\n\n06:00.964 --> 06:15.629\n如果是宣傳的行為的話支持或是不支持我想這個都是宣傳行為的一種好所以這個宣傳說請不要投票請去投票請參加罷免請不要罷免對中選會來說這四個都沒有問題如果是單純的宣傳行為應該是沒有違法\n\n06:20.717 --> 06:24.638\n除非有人非法利用他人的資料來傳送那非法就請教部長我最近收到叫我去驗車的通知\n\n06:43.012 --> 06:54.517\n我當時去驗車的時候我留下資料的時候他也沒有說什麼五年後會聯絡我啊現在聯絡我的是好幾年前我去驗車的一個民間的代檢場啊他怎麼可以傳簡訊給我\n\n07:00.510 --> 07:21.686\n可能就是那個代監場有那個客戶的一些的資料這是如何去蒐集當然我們這個就可以啦這個是在我們各執法裡面的規定像那個28條跟29條它裡面公務機關這個是應該是屬於29規公務機關違反本法規定自個人資料遭受不法蒐集處理利用其他\n\n07:22.446 --> 07:44.640\n侵害當事人權利這個要負損害賠償責任但若證明無故意或過失不再直線所以這個有沒有這個還要做個案的做一個認定做一個認定那事實上整個一個太樣很多那這個是因為各自法的主管機關在一個解釋如何非法好說起處理用這個要個人資料保護\n\n07:46.468 --> 07:52.411\n籌備處好那我們就有沒有代表來這個數位部的代表籌備處來請問一下不好意思請問一下我們現在去餐廳訂位子打電話去今天晚上八點王先生試會對方問我說請問手機號碼我就留給他了他只有問這樣我就會留給他大部分都這樣\n\n08:16.938 --> 08:18.810\n過了一個月以後他傳了一個簡訊給我\n\n08:21.614 --> 08:48.916\n說欸歡迎你再來吃啦我們最近打五折我沒有答應他再傳給我啊這樣有沒有違反個資法是因為一開始如果說是在定位的時候他可能會是有一個契約或類似契約的關係那這個時候依照個資法的規定他是可以蒐集必要的個人資料例如手機號碼但是之後他如果要做行銷之用的話其實還是需要經過當事人的同意才能夠做這個行銷你在說什麼這條就嚴重了\n\n08:51.394 --> 08:53.497\n這條這麼嚴重你今天講完之後這事情還蠻嚴重的我們打電話去餐廳他都問我電話號碼嘛這合理嘛我們好像覺得很合理啦因為我剛剛講說我不要給你電話\n\n09:04.568 --> 09:33.315\n他說那我沒辦法讓你定位喔那我就留電話給你了那留了電話給你之後他也許時間到了我遲到5分鐘他會轉簡訊給我說你遲到你到底有沒有要來對不對過了一個月之後他給我行銷了嘛他給我行銷那給我行銷這個動作在你們現在的認定裡頭他也沒有徵得我同意嘛他就是在電話中我也沒有看那個熱熱等的文字嘛我們有時候去簽一大堆他叫我看一堆文字然後說什麼保護啊這樣\n\n09:34.375 --> 09:42.359\n那現在他如果這種情形他又傳給了消費者有人去檢舉說我上次去吃完之後他又傳簡訊給我你們要怎麼處理\n\n09:44.718 --> 10:13.522\n就依照目前以往不管是在法務部或是國發會或是我們現在籌備處的韓式的見解就是說當你在做行銷的時候因為它跟一開始它是接受定位的這樣的一個目的是有一點不太一樣的那因為它是不同的目的所以它其實是需要額外在經過當事人的同意說我願意讓你用我的電話號碼做行銷那如果說沒有這樣的一個同意的話基本上確實可能會有違反各自法的這個疑慮\n\n10:14.022 --> 10:21.436\n唉唷,那這個事情就麻煩了,這個再請法務部或司法院,大家開一下會,因為這個會很普遍。\n\n10:22.575 --> 10:48.681\n會很普遍啦我們一般消費者就留電話給人家嘛那留了之後以後又收到如果我不開心了我可不可以去告發他說你又沒有徵得我同意你怎麼老是傳簡訊給我好最後一個我們參加活動愛情部長我們參加活動會留下很多的資料參加社團坐遊覽車保險旅遊都會留下蠻多跟個人資訊有關的這個訊息啦\n\n10:51.277 --> 11:10.228\n那如果這一個剛剛講這個電信公司收到了一組電話號碼假設一千個電話號碼然後他就幫我傳了一個訊息可是這一千組的電話號碼我交給電信公司的時候就是這個委託人交給電信公司的時候其實他也不知道那一千組哪裡來的\n\n11:12.025 --> 11:28.555\n因為一千組可能是攬攬攬攬攬一通就對了本來這個社團已經二十年了這個社團都有這些社員的名冊或各式各樣的社團的名冊那這個已經攬攬攬攬攬了很久之後大家也都一直傳一傳就沒有事啊結果呢\n\n11:31.676 --> 11:47.573\n這是有人告發假設啦假設他不知道為什麼目的他告發說欸你怎麼有我的電話碼你怎麼傳簡訊給我未必是跟政治有關啦就是一般的這樣子那如果有人去告發了那回頭去找這個提供電話的人啦\n\n11:48.554 --> 11:52.799\n啊你如果有這個電話,你如果拿到中華電信給你傳訊,這個電話對對來這個承辦人可能說,這個電話我們社團已經二三十年了,就都這個電話啊結果這個提供的人,現在也許會出事嘛對不對\n\n12:04.011 --> 12:22.321\n這部分事實上因為提供說不定可能就是一個收集保有這些個人資料的最原始的那個或者是輾轉來的那剛才11條的話是個人資料的收集的特定目的消失所以本來譬如說我們為了旅行做一個名冊裡面有一些聯絡資料\n\n12:23.547 --> 12:51.285\n那如果說這個特定的目的當是為了旅遊或者某一個特定目的或者期限屆滿這個屆滿的時候那個當然收集處理的那一位當然就要依主動或依當事人之請求刪除停止處理或利用個人資料但是如果執行職或業務所必須或經當事人署名同意那不再執行所以這個還是要看那個要看個案\n\n12:52.345 --> 13:07.751\n個案來處理有沒有同意或者有沒有那個個案的情形這個有一條界線啦你想說我常常收到我以前是台中嘛收到台中很多的市議員叫我沒感動的還有以前的議長祝我生日快樂我當然可能有留電話給他我名片有留電話給他可是我現在叫他不好啊我現在跟他不好了\n\n13:17.932 --> 13:46.131\n那他傳給我生日快樂我覺得你怎麼會有我的電話號碼他那個事實上據各自法也不是都是因為他第一條裡面就有規定這個因為他是做一個平衡他自己是為了規範個人資料的蒐集處理利用以避免人格而前受到侵害並促進個人資料的合理使用還有那個合理使用所以如果有些資料說祝你生日快樂我是認為是沒有\n\n13:49.533 --> 14:02.962\n電話號碼是一個經營社會生活必要的工具就像我們這個連,這個都是屬於個人的所以這都是屬於個人資料的有些的一個範圍我舉這個例子只是說因為我們到處都會留下我們的電話號碼\n\n14:12.288 --> 14:35.348\n我們也常常收到簡訊我們也不知道那個簡訊是我在哪裡留下電話號碼而收到的簡訊所以個人的利益受損或者是他不當的利用這些資料的這一條界線可能也要有一個清楚讓民眾知道像剛剛提到說我去餐廳訂餐廳這間餐廳兩三個月架一個行銷方案給我\n\n14:40.748 --> 14:56.216\n中間那條線搞不好有跨過去因為他也沒有我書面同意諸如此類的事情我覺得這個可能相關的單位找個機會給民眾一個共同的答案讓大家包括商家也可以有一個依詢以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.762,"end":33.641,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請法務部副局長麻煩法務部然後這個中選會的代表跟數位部的代表 謝謝中選會 好 數法部委員長好還有調查局 對好 麻煩副局長"},{"start":40.88,"end":63.435,"text":"我先請教調查局的這個副局長先請教你的原因是因為你們的報告寫得最好這個把所謂的簡訊的分類寫得非常清楚簡訊的來源不是只有我們有手機號碼會收到各式各樣我們用網路購物獲到了也會收到簡訊各式各樣的這個分類"},{"start":66.212,"end":95.328,"text":"那我先想要請教一下就是說這一個發送簡訊啊發送簡訊的人有問題還是提供提供這個這個電話給發送簡訊的單位如果違反各執法是哪一個哪一個有問題報言這個可能要看事實的個案來做認定好我現在假設假設今天召委排了這個題目啊就是說有人收到了"},{"start":97.372,"end":124.498,"text":"這個簡訊那請他來參與連署嘛假設是這樣那請他參與連署那一定是一定是這個電信公司收到有人給了他一個名冊或者叫電話然後就丟給了這個電信公司付了錢給電信公司那電信公司就傳給了這個不管是手機收到簡訊的人那如果違反個資法那發送訊號發送訊息的這個電信公司有沒有事"},{"start":125.953,"end":150.634,"text":"那可能因為如果所有行為的分擔有翻譯的聯絡可能有共犯的問題但是像您講的這個狀況我們不知道他彼此之間聯繫的這個狀況所以還是要看個案的實際就是說我現在假設我有一千個電話號碼我就交給了假設叫中華電信我有一千個電話號碼我交給了中華電信請他幫我傳這些文字那中華電信有沒有事"},{"start":151.846,"end":178.618,"text":"中央電信他如果只是接受委託的話他可能在看起來是沒有犯罪的這個意圖也沒有跟他做一個犯罪行為分擔的這個狀況的話那從您講的這樣的表象看起來可能不會有犯罪的問題但是個案還是我們會如果有個案的犯罪我們還是提報到基金署好 這個我了解了第二個請這個法務部部長"},{"start":180.899,"end":205.414,"text":"我們在選舉前 或者是在罷免前我們都會收到 請踴躍投票會吧 應該會吧 請踴躍投票就是不管是誰傳來的 請踴躍投票那如果有人收到 請不要去投票如果有人收到 請去連署有人收到 請不要去連署"},{"start":206.77,"end":231.76,"text":"這四種嘛 只有我收到訊息 請去投票 請不要去投票 請參與連署 請不要參與連署這四件事情 如果按照這個各執法是損害個人 他人個人的利益的時候這四種文字 哪一種會損害到個人的利益"},{"start":233.741,"end":258.364,"text":"最主要是因為他有那個電話電話的通訊的一個一個號碼所以他那個簡訊才會發到這些這些民眾的手裡對那所以這個是這怎麼那個那個個人資料是怎麼來的這個可能還要再去做一個了解但是我想這個應該是屬於各自法的問題這個收集處理利用這是一個怎麼是收集的"},{"start":258.724,"end":279.88,"text":"怎麼去處理對 我知道 這收集來處理嘛處理完之後我傳一個訊息給你嘛那是我個人認為我的利益受損我就可以去告發還是怎麼樣他那個如果說當然如果說用戶來講他認為有受損他認為有合乎各支法的那個41條或等其他的相關的規定的話"},{"start":281.201,"end":307.894,"text":"那當然可以去檢舉或者去做一個告發那這樣檢察官當然一辦案的就會依法來處理看來調查看會不會成立這個請中選會我剛剛提的那四個投票前有人通知你說請永樂投票或者是說這個反罷免的一方啊他說這個反正你們投票也不會超過25%啦請不要投票"},{"start":309.636,"end":333.428,"text":"或者現在還有在連署的請踴躍連署或者發一個訊息說請不要去連署這個中選會這四個你們管不管有沒有哪一個妨礙選舉包委員如果說是支持或反對罷免活動的話那我想這個都是罷免宣傳的一種態樣那除非說他那選舉呢"},{"start":334.902,"end":359.771,"text":"選舉也是一樣請不要投票這個我想這個請這個都是一種宣傳的一種行為都可以嗎像以前這個公投的時候啊就有人就什麼貼一個貼紙說請不要投就請不要投好所以這個對於這個訊息的內容基本上中選會不管我講了這四種你們不管"},{"start":360.964,"end":375.629,"text":"如果是宣傳的行為的話 支持或是不支持我想這個都是宣傳行為的一種好所以這個宣傳說請不要投票請去投票請參加罷免請不要罷免對中選會來說這四個都沒有問題如果是單純的宣傳行為應該是沒有違法"},{"start":380.717,"end":384.638,"text":"除非有人非法利用他人的資料來傳送那非法就請教部長我最近收到叫我去驗車的通知"},{"start":403.012,"end":414.517,"text":"我當時去驗車的時候我留下資料的時候他也沒有說什麼五年後會聯絡我啊現在聯絡我的是好幾年前我去驗車的一個民間的代檢場啊他怎麼可以傳簡訊給我"},{"start":420.51,"end":441.686,"text":"可能就是那個代監場有那個客戶的一些的資料這是如何去蒐集當然我們這個就可以啦這個是在我們各執法裡面的規定像那個28條跟29條它裡面公務機關這個是應該是屬於29規公務機關違反本法規定自個人資料遭受不法蒐集處理利用其他"},{"start":442.446,"end":464.64,"text":"侵害當事人權利這個要負損害賠償責任但若證明無故意或過失不再直線所以這個有沒有這個還要做個案的做一個認定做一個認定那事實上整個一個太樣很多那這個是因為各自法的主管機關在一個解釋如何非法好 說起處理用這個要個人資料保護"},{"start":466.468,"end":472.411,"text":"籌備處好那我們就有沒有代表來這個數位部的代表籌備處來請問一下不好意思請問一下我們現在去餐廳訂位子打電話去今天晚上八點王先生試會對方問我說請問手機號碼我就留給他了他只有問這樣我就會留給他大部分都這樣"},{"start":496.938,"end":498.81,"text":"過了一個月以後他傳了一個簡訊給我"},{"start":501.614,"end":528.916,"text":"說 欸 歡迎你再來吃啦 我們最近打五折我沒有答應他再傳給我啊這樣有沒有違反個資法是 因為一開始如果說是在定位的時候他可能會是有一個契約或類似契約的關係那這個時候依照個資法的規定他是可以蒐集必要的個人資料例如手機號碼但是 之後他如果要做行銷之用的話其實還是需要經過當事人的同意才能夠做這個行銷你在說什麼 這條就嚴重了"},{"start":531.394,"end":533.497,"text":"這條這麼嚴重你今天講完之後這事情還蠻嚴重的我們打電話去餐廳他都問我電話號碼嘛這合理嘛我們好像覺得很合理啦因為我剛剛講說我不要給你電話"},{"start":544.568,"end":573.315,"text":"他說那我沒辦法讓你定位喔那我就留電話給你了那留了電話給你之後他也許時間到了我遲到5分鐘他會轉簡訊給我說你遲到你到底有沒有要來對不對過了一個月之後他給我行銷了嘛他給我行銷那給我行銷這個動作在你們現在的認定裡頭他也沒有徵得我同意嘛他就是在電話中我也沒有看那個熱熱等的文字嘛我們有時候去簽一大堆他叫我看一堆文字然後說什麼保護啊這樣"},{"start":574.375,"end":582.359,"text":"那現在他如果這種情形 他又傳給了消費者有人去檢舉說 我上次去吃完之後 他又傳簡訊給我 你們要怎麼處理"},{"start":584.718,"end":613.522,"text":"就依照目前以往不管是在法務部或是國發會或是我們現在籌備處的韓式的見解就是說當你在做行銷的時候因為它跟一開始它是接受定位的這樣的一個目的是有一點不太一樣的那因為它是不同的目的所以它其實是需要額外在經過當事人的同意說我願意讓你用我的電話號碼做行銷那如果說沒有這樣的一個同意的話基本上確實可能會有違反各自法的這個疑慮"},{"start":614.022,"end":621.436,"text":"唉唷,那這個事情就麻煩了,這個再請法務部或司法院,大家開一下會,因為這個會很普遍。"},{"start":622.575,"end":648.681,"text":"會很普遍啦 我們一般消費者就留電話給人家嘛那留了之後以後又收到如果我不開心了我可不可以去告發他說你又沒有徵得我同意你怎麼老是傳簡訊給我好 最後一個我們參加活動 愛情部長我們參加活動會留下很多的資料參加社團 坐遊覽車 保險 旅遊都會留下蠻多跟個人資訊有關的這個訊息啦"},{"start":651.277,"end":670.228,"text":"那如果這一個剛剛講這個電信公司收到了一組電話號碼假設一千個電話號碼然後他就幫我傳了一個訊息可是這一千組的電話號碼我交給電信公司的時候就是這個委託人交給電信公司的時候其實他也不知道那一千組哪裡來的"},{"start":672.025,"end":688.555,"text":"因為一千組可能是攬攬攬攬攬一通就對了本來這個社團已經二十年了這個社團都有這些社員的名冊或各式各樣的社團的名冊那這個已經攬攬攬攬攬了很久之後大家也都一直傳一傳就沒有事啊結果呢"},{"start":691.676,"end":707.573,"text":"這是有人告發 假設啦 假設他不知道為什麼 目的他告發說 欸 你怎麼有我的電話碼 你怎麼傳簡訊給我未必是跟政治有關啦 就是一般的這樣子那如果有人去告發了 那回頭去找這個提供電話的人啦"},{"start":708.554,"end":712.799,"text":"啊你如果有這個電話,你如果拿到中華電信給你傳訊,這個電話對對來這個承辦人可能說,這個電話我們社團已經二三十年了,就都這個電話啊結果這個提供的人,現在也許會出事嘛對不對"},{"start":724.011,"end":742.321,"text":"這部分事實上因為提供說不定可能就是一個收集保有這些個人資料的最原始的那個或者是輾轉來的那剛才11條的話是個人資料的收集的特定目的消失所以本來譬如說我們為了旅行做一個名冊裡面有一些聯絡資料"},{"start":743.547,"end":771.285,"text":"那如果說這個特定的目的當是為了旅遊或者某一個特定目的或者期限屆滿這個屆滿的時候那個當然收集處理的那一位當然就要依主動或依當事人之請求刪除停止處理或利用個人資料但是如果執行職或業務所必須或經當事人署名同意那不再執行所以這個還是要看那個要看個案"},{"start":772.345,"end":787.751,"text":"個案來處理有沒有同意或者有沒有那個個案的情形這個有一條界線啦你想說我常常收到我以前是台中嘛收到台中很多的市議員叫我沒感動的還有以前的議長祝我生日快樂我當然可能有留電話給他我名片有留電話給他可是我現在叫他不好啊我現在跟他不好了"},{"start":797.932,"end":826.131,"text":"那他傳給我生日快樂我覺得你怎麼會有我的電話號碼他那個事實上據各自法也不是都是因為他第一條裡面就有規定這個因為他是做一個平衡他自己是為了規範個人資料的蒐集處理利用以避免人格而前受到侵害並促進個人資料的合理使用還有那個合理使用所以如果有些資料說祝你生日快樂我是認為是沒有"},{"start":829.533,"end":842.962,"text":"電話號碼是一個經營社會生活必要的工具就像我們這個連,這個都是屬於個人的所以這都是屬於個人資料的有些的一個範圍我舉這個例子只是說因為我們到處都會留下我們的電話號碼"},{"start":852.288,"end":875.348,"text":"我們也常常收到簡訊我們也不知道那個簡訊是我在哪裡留下電話號碼而收到的簡訊所以個人的利益受損或者是他不當的利用這些資料的這一條界線可能也要有一個清楚讓民眾知道像剛剛提到說我去餐廳訂餐廳這間餐廳兩三個月架一個行銷方案給我"},{"start":880.748,"end":896.216,"text":"中間那條線搞不好有跨過去因為他也沒有我書面同意諸如此類的事情我覺得這個可能相關的單位找個機會給民眾一個共同的答案讓大家包括商家也可以有一個依詢以上 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":417,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（9時29分）謝謝主席，我們請法務部。"],["主席：麻煩法務部。"],["王委員義川：然後中選會的代表跟數發部的代表，謝謝。"],["主席：中選會、數發部。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["王委員義川：還有調查局。"],["主席：好，麻煩副局長。"],["王委員義川：我先請教調查局副局長，先請教你的原因是因為你們的報告寫得最好，把所謂的簡訊分類寫得非常清楚，簡訊的來源不是只有我們有手機號碼會收到，我們用網路購物，貨到了也會收到簡訊，有各式各樣的分類。我想要先請教一下，到底是發送簡訊的人，還是提供這個電話給發送簡訊的單位有問題？如果違反個資法，是哪一個有問題？"],["吳副局長以公：報告委員，這可能要看事實個案來做認定。"],["王委員義川：好，我現在假設今天召委排了這個題目，有人收到簡訊，請他來參與連署，假設是這樣，一定是電信公司收到有人給了它一個名冊或者是電話，然後就丟給了電信公司，也付了錢給電信公司，電信公司就傳給了用手機收到簡訊的人，如果違反個資法，發送訊號、發送訊息的這個電信公司有沒有事？"],["吳副局長以公：可能，因為如果有行為的分擔、有犯意的聯絡，可能有共犯的問題，但是像您講的這個狀況，我們不知道他們彼此之間聯繫的狀況，所以還是要看個案的實際狀況。"],["王委員義川：好，現在假設我有1,000個電話號碼，我就交給了假設是中華電信，我把1,000個電話號碼交給了中華電信，請它幫我傳這些文字，那中華電信有沒有事？"],["吳副局長以公：中華電信如果只是接受委託的話，它可能看起來沒有犯罪的意圖，也沒有跟它做犯罪行為分擔的狀況的話，從您所講這樣的表象看起來，可能不會有犯罪的問題，但是針對個案，如果有個案的犯罪，我們還是提報到地檢署，由檢察官來做認定。"],["王委員義川：好，這個我了解了。第二個，請教法務部部長，我們在選舉前或者是在罷免前都會收到「請踴躍投票」，應該會吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個會。"],["王委員義川：不管是誰傳來的，就是「請踴躍投票」，如果有人收到「請不要去投票」，有人收到「請去連署」，有人收到「請不要去連署」這4種，就是收到的訊息包括「請去投票」、「請不要去投票」、「請參與連署」、「請不要參與連署」這4件事情，如果按照個資法是損害他人之利益時，這4種文字哪一種會損害到個人的利益？"],["鄭部長銘謙：最主要是因為它有電話通訊的號碼，所以那個簡訊才會發到這些民眾的手裡。"],["王委員義川：對。"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以個人資料是怎麼來的，可能還要再去做了解，但是我想這應該是屬於個資法的問題，蒐集、處理、利用，就是怎麼蒐集的？怎麼去處理？"],["王委員義川：對，我知道，就是蒐集來處理，處理完之後，我傳一個訊息給你。"],["鄭部長銘謙：對。"],["王委員義川：那是我個人認為我的利益受損就可以去告發，還是怎麼樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：當然如果就用戶來講，他認為有受損，他認為有合乎個資法第四十一條或其他相關規定的話，當然可以去檢舉或者去做告發，檢察官辦案就會依法來處理，來調查看會不會成立。"],["王委員義川：好，請中選會，我剛剛提的那4個投票前，有人通知你說「請踴躍投票」；或者是反罷免的一方說，反正你們投票不會超過25%，「請不要投票」；或者現在還有在連署的「請踴躍連署」；或者發一個訊息說「請不要去連署」，請問中選會，這4個你們管不管？有沒有哪一個妨礙選舉？"],["蔡處長金誥：報告委員，如果是支持或反對罷免行動的話，我想這個都是罷免宣傳的一種態樣。除非說……"],["王委員義川：那選舉呢？"],["蔡處長金誥：選舉也是一樣。"],["王委員義川：如果有人說「請不要投票」呢？"],["蔡處長金誥：我想這個都是一種宣傳的行為。"],["王委員義川：所以都可以嘛！像以前公投的時候，就有人貼一個貼紙說「請不要投」，所以對於訊息的內容，基本上中選會不管？我講的這四種你們不管？"],["蔡處長金誥：如果是宣傳行為的話，不管支持或是不支持，我想這個都是宣傳行為的一種。"],["王委員義川：好，所以這個宣傳說請不要投票、請去投票、請參加罷免、請不要罷免，對中選會來說，這四個都沒有問題？"],["蔡處長金誥：如果是單純的宣傳行為，應該是沒有違法。"],["王委員義川：那還有什麼不是單純的宣傳行為？我就接到這種簡訊啊！"],["蔡處長金誥：剛剛部長有提到，除非有人非法利用他人的資料來傳……"],["王委員義川：好，非法的部分就來請教部長了，我最近收到叫我去驗車的通知，我當時去驗車留下資料的時候，對方也沒有說五年後會聯絡我啊！現在聯絡我的是好幾年前我去驗車的民間代檢廠，他怎麼可以傳簡訊給我？"],["鄭部長銘謙：可能是代檢廠有客戶的一些資料，這次如果去蒐集，當然我們……"],["王委員義川：這個就可以是嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是個資法裡面的規定，像第二十八條及第二十九條……這應該是屬於第二十九條的規定：非公務機關違反本法規定，致個人資料遭不法蒐集、處理、利用或其他侵害當事人權利者，負損害賠償責任。但能證明其無故意或過失者，不在此限。所以這有沒有觸犯規定還要針對個案認定，事實上態樣很多，關於個資法的主管機關如何解釋非法蒐集、處理、利用，這要由個人資料保護籌備處……"],["王委員義川：今天有沒有代表來？數位部的代表……"],["鄭部長銘謙：請籌備處的代表來說明。"],["王委員義川：請問一下，我們現在要去餐廳訂位子，打電話過去說：今天晚上八點，王先生四位。對方問我手機號碼，我就留給他了，他只有問這樣，然後我就留給他，大部分都是這樣。過了一個月以後，他傳了一個簡訊給我說，歡迎你再來吃，我們最近打五折。其實我並沒有答應他再傳簡訊給我啊！請問這樣有沒有違反個資法？"],["林組長裕嘉：因為一開始在訂位的時候，可能會有契約或類似契約的關係，依照個資法規定，這時候他是可以蒐集必要的個人資料，例如手機號碼，但是之後他如果要做行銷之用的話，其實還是需要經過當事人的同意才能夠做行銷。"],["王委員義川：你這樣說，這件事情就嚴重了！你今天講完之後，這事情還蠻嚴重的。我們打電話去餐廳，對方都會問電話號碼，我們好像覺得這樣很合理，如果我跟他說我不要給你電話，他就會說：那我沒辦法讓你訂位。所以我就留電話給他，留電話給他之後，也許時間到了，我遲到五分鐘，他會傳簡訊跟我說：你遲到了，你到底有沒有要來，對不對？"],["林組長裕嘉：對。"],["王委員義川：過了一個月之後，他給我行銷了，就行銷這個動作而言，在你們現在的認定當中，他也沒有徵得我同意，他就是在電話中傳簡訊，我也沒有看那些「落落長」的文字，我們有時候要簽一大堆，他叫我看一堆文字，然後說是根據什麼保護法之類的。像這種情形，他又傳給了消費者，有人去檢舉說我上次去吃完之後，他又傳簡訊給我，你們怎麼處理？"],["林組長裕嘉：不管是在法務部、國發會或是現在籌備處函釋的見解，當他在做行銷的時候，因為跟一開始他接受訂位這樣的目的是有一點不太一樣的，因為是不同的目的，所以其實需要額外再經過當事人的同意，說我願意讓你用我的電話號碼做行銷，如果沒有這樣的同意的話，基本上確實可能會有違反個資法的疑慮。"],["王委員義川：唉喲！那這個事情就麻煩了。再請法務部或司法院開一下會，因為這很普遍，一般消費者就留電話給人家，留了之後又收到簡訊，如果我不開心了，我可不可以去告發他，說他又沒有徵得我同意，他怎麼老是傳簡訊給我？","接下來請部長，我們參加活動會留下很多資料，參加社團、坐遊覽車、保險、旅遊，都會留下許多跟個人資訊有關的訊息。剛剛講假設電信公司收到一千個電話號碼，然後他就幫我傳了一個訊息，其實委託人交給電信公司的時候，他也不知道那一千組哪裡來的，那一千組可能是混雜在一起的，反正社團已經成立二十年了，社團都有社員的名冊或各式各樣的社團名冊，已經混在一起很久之後，大家也都一直傳都沒事啊！假設這次有人因為某種目的而去告發說，你怎麼有我的電話號碼？你怎麼傳簡訊給我？未必是跟政治有關，就是一般的情況，如果有人去告發，回頭去找提供電話的人說，你怎麼有這些電話？你怎麼拿給中華電信叫他幫你傳訊息？這些電話從哪裡來的？承辦人說我們社團二、三十年來都是用這些電話啊！在這種情況下，這個提供的人現在也許會出事，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：針對這部分，因為提供的人說不定就是蒐集保有這些個人資料的最原始者，或者是輾轉來的，依照第十一條的規定，當個人資料蒐集的特定目的消失，譬如為了旅行做一個名冊，裡面有一些聯絡資料，如果當時是為了旅遊或為了某一個特定目的，當期限屆滿的時候，當然蒐集處理的人就會主動或依當事人之請求刪除、停止處理或利用個人資料，但如果是執行職務或業務所必須或經當事人書面同意者，不在此限。所以這還是要視個案來處理，看看有沒有獲得當事人同意或者……個案的情形都不一樣。"],["王委員義川：這個有一條界線啦！因為我以前在臺中，所以我也常常收到許多和我不同黨的臺中市議員或以前的議長祝我生日快樂的簡訊，我當時可能有留名片、有留電話給他，可是我現在跟他不好了，那他傳給我生日快樂的簡訊，我就覺得他怎麼會有我的電話號碼？這個要怎麼主張？"],["鄭部長銘謙：事實上個資法也不是都……其實第一條裡面就有規定，為規範個人資料之蒐集、處理及利用，以避免人格權受侵害，並促進個人資料之合理利用……這裡寫的是「合理使用」，所以如果有些資料是祝你生日快樂，我認為那並沒有……"],["王委員義川：OK。"],["鄭部長銘謙：有些電話號碼是經營社會生活必要的工具，就像我們的臉，這些都是屬於個人資料的範圍，包括名字或……"],["王委員義川：我舉這個例子只是……"],["鄭部長銘謙：合理的使用……"],["王委員義川：我舉這個例子只是因為我們到處都會留下我們的電話號碼，我們也常常收到簡訊，我們也不知道那個簡訊是我們在哪裡留下電話號碼而收到的簡訊，所以個人的利益受損或者是他不當利用這些資料的這一條界線，可能也要清楚讓民眾知道。像剛剛提到我去餐廳訂位時，留電話給這間餐廳，結果這間餐廳兩、三個月後寄一個行銷方案給我，中間那一條線搞不好有跨過去，因為他也沒有我的書面同意。諸如此類的事情，我覺得相關單位可能要找個機會給民眾一個共同的答案，讓商家和民眾都可以有一個依循。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","接下來請林倩綺委員代理主席。"],["主席（林委員倩綺代）：請吳委員。"],["吳委員宗憲：麻煩NCC、中華電信、個資保護委員會，還有部長及調查局副局長。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：因為剛剛聽王義川委員的問題，我覺得還蠻有興趣的，就是剛剛王義川委員有問部長，如果違法要求大家罷免或不罷免有沒有構成違法？其實這個有，這在選罷法第九十八條有，我來幫部長回復一下王委員。因為我剛聽王委員的問題，我一樣覺得有興趣，所以我想接著往下問幾個問題，就是剛剛所提到的，部長，需不需要先看一下第九十八條？我們時間可以先暫停，就是選罷法第九十八條。","時間先暫停，先讓他們看一下條文。","好了嗎？好，時間請繼續。"],["主席：請繼續。"],["吳委員宗憲：謝謝。我就順著王委員的問題，我們現在看第九十八條第一項第二款，如果今天是用一個非法的方式叫大家來罷免或不來罷免，其實是符合第九十八條第一項第二款，如果前面有違反個資蒐集到相關的資訊，再拿違反個資所取得的資訊來做後續傳播訊息等等的動作，其實是有問題的，跟部長報告一下，部長，你們應該要稍微了解嘛！","另外，調查局這個應該也可以列為選舉查察的核分，因為你們偽造文書都列為選舉查察積分在核分了，像這個完全就是違反選罷法第九十八條第一項第二款，更可以名正言順用選罷法的積分來核分，調查局副局長，你們有要處理這個嗎？有沒有？"],["吳副局長以公：報告委員，如果我們受理相關的告發案件，我們會蒐集相關資料提報給地檢署來成立偵辦。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，我再談一下個資的部分，也先跟副局長說明，如果這段時間的個資利用上面是違法的話，你們千萬記得……我在這邊就直接跟你們說，你們就要開始下去調查，因為這跟全民有關。我也再跟兩位說明一下，最近有很多實務上面查到的詐欺集團，他就是利用這些簡訊所獲得的資訊，這些簡訊雖然是外面的簡訊代理商來幫忙發送訊息，但這些代理商所得到的門號，他可以從門號知道你去過哪些地點、使用的基地臺位置，這個在中華電信的廣告裡面也寫得很清楚，你去過哪一間實體的售車展覽場，之後他就會丟車輛的簡訊給你，這個中華電信的廣告都有。如果這樣的話，我自然就可以從這些簡訊發送的代理商那邊，從每個人的門號反推回這個人曾經到過哪裡、使用過哪幾個基地臺，這些請你們要注意一下，很多詐團現在開始用這些資料，臺灣詐欺很多，我們現在要幫國人守住這一塊，你們不能視而不見。","我這邊跟幾位說明一下，這個月初的新聞報導有關罷免連署的簡訊，「反共護台」聯盟的人指出，他們這些簡訊是透過代理商下單去購買的服務，他說代理商會跟三大業者合作，並以區域基地臺及當初申請門號的地點作為發送地點。所以依據那個報導，目前光新北市就有5個選區有，雙和、板橋、淡水、新店等等，像臺中也都有，所以以當初發送門號的地點，他也可以針對門號申請人的年齡、學歷、性別等等來取得這些發送的資料。我想請教一下，罷團取得這5個選區的行動電話門號，然後廣發簡訊鼓勵罷免的連署，為什麼罷團可以取得這些資料？","沒關係，我幫你們回答好了，就是因為罷團向這些業者下單嘛！對不對？因為業者手上有這些資料，所以罷團向他下單，但是我必須提一個點，最近很多科技執法的修法，你要知道門號跟使用者位址其實是符合通保法第三條之一的通信紀錄資料，也就是這些東西很多都是要檢察官聲請，法官核准才能調閱。如果中華電信今天什麼都不管，就全部丟出去給業者，這個也很奇怪。而且大法官釋字第689號也講得很清楚，即使一般人在公開場合的行為也有不受關注的權利，我們在公開場合還是有一些個人隱私得主張的權利，而不是中華電信可以把資料全部都給那些業者想怎麼用就怎麼用。","我想請問一下個資委員會，最近有民眾反映說他人搬到中壢了，結果他在中壢也有收到訊息，你們有沒有發覺這是怎麼回事？"],["林組長裕嘉：因為目前個資法還是一個分管的狀況，我們個資籌備處是沒有調查的權限，所以這個部分可能還是由各業別的目的事業主管機關在個案才有調查的權限。"],["吳委員宗憲：那你們就沒有在管這一塊嗎？"],["林組長裕嘉：對，應該是說目前我們如果有收到民眾……我們目前其實也沒有收到民眾對我們有任何的陳情。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，沒關係，我跟你講，民眾還說會不會他連去汽車旅館資料全部都被你們掌握？他們現在擔心這個點，我可以去某一個汽車賣場，你就知道我去過，然後讓業者丟訊息，丟汽車的訊息給我。那我去了哪一間汽車旅館會不會你下次就丟它的折價券給我？就是那個民眾的質疑啦！"],["林組長裕嘉：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：另外，我上網看了一下簡訊的收費，大概就0.7元起跳到1.5元，所以我當然也會覺得這些罷團真的超有錢的，因為我拿到一個數據，就是內政部的公開數據，而且是112年11月電信信令人口統計，光是新聞報導的這幾個區加起來電信使用的人口有156萬3,184人，如果以最便宜的0.7塊來看好了，以0.7塊這個數字，如果他真的都發的話大概要一百零九萬多啦！當然我不知道他到底發了多少，我們也蠻希望這些罷團最後能夠公開這些經費的使用，因為我國目前在這一塊法律上面建構不夠完全，我們選舉，最後選舉經費要報到中選會，但是罷免卻不用，他們錢哪裡來？怎麼用？都沒有人管，所以好多個罷團現在內部都發生因為經費使用，有人私下去募款，有人錢不知道怎麼用，內部就鬧哄哄。上次謝國樑罷免案也是，罷免完之後到現在他們還在吵罷免經費的使用。這一塊內政部有提說要修法，但在修法之前，這次就天下大亂，因為錢不知道哪裡來，也不知道哪裡去，這也是我們質疑的一個點。甚至有更精確化的說訊息一則要一塊半，費用是非常驚人的，我也不認為資料可以讓大家這樣濫用一團對國家是好事。就像我剛剛說的，現在很多詐欺集團利用這些簡訊代發業者所取得的資料反推回大家的習慣。我講個很簡單的例子，立法院有我的門號，立法院在很多通訊錄上面也有把我的門號列出來，如果有人想要知道我的生活習慣，而他不是偵察單位、不是檢察機關，他就拿我的門號去跟這些業者反求門號的使用紀錄就好了，我到過哪裡、去過哪些賣場，我的整個脈絡就出來了，這是我質疑的點，而且這個點是不分藍綠都要注意的風險，國人也要注意的風險，因為詐欺集團他要怎麼樣騙到你的錢，如果你值得他騙的話，如果你夠有錢值得他騙的話，他就會花時間去分析你過往的紀錄，就像我們以前在做刑事案件偵查的時候，我會去分析被告的生活習慣，譬如他喜歡看不動產的資料，我就會一直丟類似這種東西給他、去跟他談。所以我們會分析對方的資料，然後去攻破他、去理解他到底在做什麼，我們不能讓這些個人的資料到最後變成是犯罪集團使用的工具，這是我很在乎的一點。","那中華電信我請教一下，你們在官網的行動寬頻服務契約書第三十七條寫到「非依法或經乙方事先同意……不得為蒐集目的以外之利用。」所以相關的資料紀錄經過你們處理，而且客觀上無法還原識別個人的可能時才能夠提供第三人使用。但是在這段時間有非常多的例子，大家都開始在那邊擔心說他經過很簡單的反求就可以查出個人的資料，就像健保資料庫的隱密性現在也被人家一直挑戰般，而你們對於個人資料的維護是遠低於健保資料庫。這個情況下，我想請問中華電信有什麼作法嗎？"],["林執行副總經理文智：跟委員報告，我想也順便跟大家說明，中華電信在個資的這些蒐集、利用、處理一定都是完全按照個資法去處理。在我們公司內部，從內部的檢視到內控、到內稽、到外部通過這些ISO的27001、27701、BS10012到我們通過國際標準29100-2，這個其實都要檢視，有重重的保護。"],["吳委員宗憲：你講這個有答跟沒有答一樣，我都依據個資法，經過什麼認證我都沒有問題。但我們看到的是結論，我跟你說明一下結論就是：今天很多人當初去申請門號的時候，甚至我門號是二十年前申請的，我沒有換過門號，那我二十年前申請，我當時也不可能去勾選這個個資使用的同意書啊！甚至我勾選時，使用同意書它的範圍也沒有包括到政治活動。但是最近，這是一個事實，就變成有一些政治活動會利用這些發送簡訊，或者是詐欺集團使用外面代理業者的資訊，這都已經是實務上的一個事實，然後你在那邊跟我說一切符合個資法，一切符合誰、誰、誰的認證，但我們看的是結論，我們要處理的是社會問題。"],["林執行副總經理文智：是，也跟委員報告，我為什麼先說明我們在這個部分一切有做這樣嚴謹的處理，另外，電信公司本身其實是一個傳輸網路的平臺，所以就現在報載的這個個案或剛剛委員提到的很多案例，其實是來自於發訊端的行為。我們在有關詐欺這個部分，在NCC的執法跟警政機關的合作，其實我們也做了很多的措施。"],["吳委員宗憲：好了，我懂了啦！發訊端的行為，那就是有講跟沒有講一樣，都是他們的錯，千錯萬錯都是他們的錯！雖然中華電信是公司，但是業者、企業有社會責任，每一個企業都有他的社會責任存在，那你有沒有做適當的行政調查，這就是一個很重要的點。"],["林執行副總經理文智：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：你放任說：你用我的東西我也不知道，反正是你犯罪，不是我。但是你可以做行政上的控管，因為現在詐欺已經是全民痛恨的東西了，不分你是什麼政治傾向、你什麼有的或沒有的，大家都不喜歡詐欺。但是我一直講，詐欺像你剛剛說的就交給警察、交給誰，其實這是不對的，所有正確的反詐處理是行政先行，司法在末端補位，你一定要從最前端的NCC、金管會等等，他去把詐騙的簡訊控管掉、把詐騙的廣告控管掉，減少了詐欺案件發生，最後才由司法機關去查。結果現在大家都倒置了，司法機關衝第一線，然後行政機關不管，就有排山倒海的詐騙廣告，我常常收到耶！我家人也常常收到！就表示控管出了問題。如果你認為這個是簡訊代送業者的責任，那我也不知道貴公司的企業社會責任哪裡去了！"],["林執行副總經理文智：謝謝委員的指導。事實上我們在社會責任……有關詐欺，我們不管是在簡訊……因為涉及到秘密通訊，所以我們這個部分也做了很多的處理，詐騙的簡訊有很多的態樣……"],["吳委員宗憲：我跟你講，你自己看我現在這個PowerPoint上面的，你們蒐集了非常多資料，這是你們的廣告喔！不是我們列出來的。你告訴大家說，你可以去哪裡蒐集到誰去哪裡的資料之後，然後以行為分群丟給這些人，像這個人常跑健身房，你蒐集到他常跑健身房的資料，你就丟給他一些運動愛好的資訊，這個是企業資訊、商務上面的使用沒有錯，但是我跟你們說，這個會導致反求之後就知道你很多資訊、知道你去過哪裡，會有這個問題，而且在實務上面已經發生那麼多了。另外，我再跟你們提一下，最近簡訊代發業者在5月份時發了一些訊息給他們客戶，裡面就有提到說要開始去查來請求發送簡訊的這些人的資料等等，他們要求這些人提供，我的問題是5月他們發了這些資訊，然後有說到9月底之前，都會用勸導不開罰，請問這是不是NCC的意見？中華電信或NCC都可以回答，到9月是NCC的意見嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：沒有，跟委員報告，其實我們在要求電信業者法遵並沒有任何時間限制，都是……"],["吳委員宗憲：好，因為我看到9月，那你們是不是要幹嘛？要等到大罷免結束之後再來開始查嗎？現階段不用查？另外，發送簡訊在臺灣已經這麼多年了，但是NCC以及中華電信貴公司都沒有去做行政上面的調查，這是怎麼回事？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：報告委員，有，我們都有依據個資法第二十二條，還有電信管理法第九十條進行個資檢查，像這個個案，我們在5月5號、5月9號進行兩次行政檢查，對三家電信業者……"],["吳委員宗憲：這是你講的，結果現在這些簡訊代發業者在5月12號到處發訊息跟大家說，之後每一個委託發送簡訊的人，他們要提供相關的資料，過往都沒有耶！而且他說9月之後才會開罰，所以我不知道我們的行政機關到底在做什麼？真正該管的不管，造成國內詐騙這麼嚴重的事情，不管！詐騙廣告，不管！簡訊發送，不管！個資會被冒用也不管！什麼都不管，然後今天一個一個點出來。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，NCC對我們管的三大業者都是有作用法來規管它，他們跟上游端大盤商那邊是用契約來約定，但是他們也要求他們要做好KYC，這一塊應該是末端的代發業者的企客那部分對他們的一些要求。"],["吳委員宗憲：我跟你說，NCC算政府機關，是中立的，而中華電信是公司，我只是跟兩位說，我自己在實務上來看，你們在管理上出了很大的問題，不管你說是我講錯或是你們盡力了，但我們看到的是實務上有非常多的詐騙訊息，像我剛剛講的，我給你一個門號，我不用去做違法的調查，光是從這些代發業者所掌握的資訊，我就可以回過頭去反求出你們每個人過去去過哪裡、幹了什麼事情，你覺得這樣對嗎？從個資上面這樣OK嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：在NCC的職權範圍內，我們都有嚴格把關這一塊，末端的部分應該由對應的相關主管機關來處理，像資訊服務業或行銷公司這邊都不在NCC的職權範圍內。"],["吳委員宗憲：就這樣，最後我麻煩調查局還有法務部，針對我剛剛講的，麻煩你們去弄清楚有沒有違反選罷法第九十八條第一項第二款。我在這邊也再次跟各位說：第一個，簡訊使用有沒有問題？有沒有違反個資法？再來，麻煩全部都用選舉查察去核分，叫底下調查官好好處理。還有，有沒有違反第九十八條，你們自己可以看，清清楚楚在那邊，只要用違法方式做這些罷免鼓動或要求大家不罷免，這個都有違法，請你們能就這部分去查察，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員。相關單位是不是針對吳委員剛才所提出來的具體內容，做一個書面的回應，好不好？謝謝。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：謝謝委員。"],["主席（吳委員宗憲）：現在我們請莊瑞雄委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":258,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王義川","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳培瑜","吳思瑤","張啓楷","麥玉珍","翁曉玲","羅智強","王鴻薇","葉元之","林倩綺"],"page_start":183,"meetingDate":["2025-05-19"],"gazette_id":"1145202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、內\n政部警政署署長、中央選舉委員會、數位發展部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有\n限公司率所屬相關單位列席就「民眾反應收到罷免連署簡訊，顯非商業廣告目的利用，質疑個資\n洩漏而侵害人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145202_00002"}}}