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{\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 484.725, \"end\": 484.905, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 484.905, \"end\": 485.025, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 485.025, \"end\": 485.045, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 485.045, \"end\": 485.065, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 485.065, \"end\": 485.225, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 485.225, \"end\": 485.245, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 485.245, \"end\": 485.325, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 485.325, \"end\": 485.385, \"score\": 0.346}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 485.385, \"end\": 485.405, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 485.405, \"end\": 485.526, \"score\": 0.714}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"食\", \"start\": 485.526, \"end\": 485.546, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 485.546, \"end\": 485.746, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 485.746, \"end\": 486.246, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 486.246, \"end\": 486.266, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 486.266, \"end\": 486.326, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 486.326, \"end\": 486.346, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 486.346, \"end\": 486.386, \"score\": 0.008}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 486.386, \"end\": 486.406, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 486.406, \"end\": 486.426, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 486.426, \"end\": 486.446, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 494.414, \"end\": 501.645, \"text\": \"讓人民也可以透過制度參與重大的農業談判那我想這也非常的合理不曉得部長願不願意在談判過程納入他們的聲音\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 494.414, \"end\": 494.654, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 494.654, \"end\": 494.994, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": \"也\", 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{\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 499.261, \"end\": 499.622, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 499.622, \"end\": 499.802, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 499.802, \"end\": 499.962, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 499.962, \"end\": 500.143, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 500.143, \"end\": 500.263, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 500.263, \"end\": 500.443, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 500.443, \"end\": 500.563, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 500.563, \"end\": 500.864, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"曉\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 500.864, \"end\": 500.984, \"score\": 0.586}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 500.984, \"end\": 501.004, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"願\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 501.004, \"end\": 501.104, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"願\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 501.104, \"end\": 501.124, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 501.124, \"end\": 501.144, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 501.144, \"end\": 501.164, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 501.164, \"end\": 501.345, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 501.345, \"end\": 501.365, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 501.365, \"end\": 501.525, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 501.525, \"end\": 501.625, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"聲\"}, {\"word\": \"音\", \"start\": 501.625, \"end\": 501.645, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 505.27, \"end\": 525.224, \"text\": \"我想農民產業的意見農業部隨時在溝通但是談判小組有談判小組的策略因為談判小組本身的這些策略其實我們的任何的這些策略的方案都會根據對方的一些挑戰或是一些需求來做動態的調整\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 505.27, \"end\": 505.45, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 505.45, \"end\": 506.371, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 506.371, \"end\": 506.931, \"score\": 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514.737, \"end\": 514.937, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"略\", \"start\": 514.937, \"end\": 515.157, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 515.157, \"end\": 515.497, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 515.497, \"end\": 515.817, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 515.817, \"end\": 516.438, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 516.438, \"end\": 516.618, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 516.618, \"end\": 516.778, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 516.778, \"end\": 517.299, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 517.299, \"end\": 517.499, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 517.499, \"end\": 517.679, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"略\", \"start\": 517.679, \"end\": 517.939, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 517.939, \"end\": 518.319, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 518.319, \"end\": 518.519, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 518.519, \"end\": 519.32, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 519.32, \"end\": 519.68, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 519.68, \"end\": 520.341, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 520.341, \"end\": 521.361, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 521.361, \"end\": 521.622, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 521.622, \"end\": 522.302, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 522.302, \"end\": 522.522, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"挑\", \"start\": 522.522, \"end\": 523.043, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 523.043, \"end\": 523.183, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 523.183, \"end\": 523.303, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 523.303, \"end\": 523.383, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 523.383, \"end\": 523.603, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 523.603, \"end\": 523.803, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 523.803, \"end\": 524.784, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 524.784, \"end\": 524.964, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 524.964, \"end\": 525.204, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 525.204, \"end\": 525.224, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 526.565, \"end\": 553.837, \"text\": \"所以農民的需求我們隨時掌握那這樣子本席是不是也請部長是不是也能夠主動來關心這些農民團體的這個聲音既然是您來召開吧 您來召開吧他們聚集起來看他們到底是需求什麼因為我知道您也是很樂意下鄉的嘛尤其今天如果解凍案完成多了這33億我想你有很多可能現在握在整個掌控在布裡面的大家就可以趕快去幫助這些農漁民了好不好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 526.565, \"end\": 527.185, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 527.185, \"end\": 527.365, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 527.365, \"end\": 527.545, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 527.545, \"end\": 527.746, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 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00:01:07,814\n我知道現在目前大概有兩千多戶嘛那一戶如果用四個人去算那光養殖區大概就有八千八千應該不止八千多人啊還有那個他的一個產業鏈那個至少大概一萬五到兩萬以上\n\n4\n00:01:12,458 --> 00:01:26,129\n可能本席這邊的資料更多一點可能有2萬至4萬左右後面還有很多請教對那他們的平均年齡目前本席拿到的資料是55歲所以就是這2至4萬人每年創造41億的產值那現在台灣的養科產業卻面臨非常嚴重的一個挑戰就是越南進口牡蠣的問題這個部分部長了解嗎\n\n5\n00:01:39,915 --> 00:01:49,187\n我了解就是從108年開始越南的牡蠣大概開始從2000噸到去年大概是69000多噸是那這段時間剛好2000噸到69000多噸6000進口啦進口對然後最主要是因為\n\n6\n00:01:55,775 --> 00:02:15,153\n我們這幾年來養蚵的剛好遇到一些天然災害所以我們的產量有降低那整體的需求大概是兩萬到兩萬兩千噸左右這個是我們的消費需求所以它有一些會越南的戶我當然理解但是現在本席比較擔心的是就是這個\n\n7\n00:02:16,374 --> 00:02:19,475\n蚵仔覆苗的問題因為沒有苗哪有蚵那當然你說如果氣節調節這個我們都可以理解但是呢我們現在台灣的蚵苗啊現在大部分包括九成喔都是靠海放竹架看老天爺的臉色對啊就雲林嘉義我們全部都是\n\n8\n00:02:39,782 --> 00:02:54,019\n自然覆苗那這個部分呢就等於是會拉低我們的競爭力我們現在台灣的人工覆苗的技術如何呢跟委員報告現在人工覆苗技術在我們水事所的開發之下現在已經基本上成功\n\n9\n00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:10,093\n那現在問題就是價格的問題然後水市所這邊有雲林的養科的相關的協會有進駐然後他們現在的量技術也學到了所以我在想就是說他現在目前大概是從40塊已經降到29塊了\n\n10\n00:03:12,775 --> 00:03:18,661\n這就是本席想要講的部長很瞭解這個狀況也掌握這個重點重點就在於價錢中國大陸跟越南他們的人工覆苗價格成本比我們低因為他們量多\n\n11\n00:03:29,171 --> 00:03:44,244\n所以他們的競爭力就比我們好那我們台灣不是沒有這個技術我們水市所的技術也很高但是就是成本太高這一點部長有什麼因應的辦法嗎這個部分我正在跟漁業署跟水市所協調\n\n12\n00:03:45,845 --> 00:04:04,023\n我們的苗一定是後端的農民、漁民要用所以我可能在不管是雲林、嘉峪或台南我們先找一些釋放區讓他們用人工的苗去培育如果說釋放區不錯的時候漁民就會跟上\n\n13\n00:04:04,804 --> 00:04:17,129\n所以這個部分如果說我們有找到相關的區位的時候我前端的那些人工養殖的苗我可能做一些小部分的這些加差的一個協助我們不要用補助我們用協助這樣子的話可能\n\n14\n00:04:20,470 --> 00:04:25,192\n讓這個示範區能夠順利的養成那農民後面才會跟進對這就是本席想要建議給部長的就是說我們要趕快跟進我們要趕快把鼓勵農民人工覆苗因為這個價格如果降低然後覆苗這個率\n\n15\n00:04:38,476 --> 00:04:41,978\n可以說是提高的話那農民他的收入也會更穩定而且我們也會減少對於越南這個進口牡蠣的需求這一點我也是希望部長可以幫忙因為我們其實不是沒有產池不是沒有技術更不是沒有市場所以現在最最需要的就是部長跟署長挺身而出幫他們一把\n\n16\n00:05:04,589 --> 00:05:11,634\n讓他們這個產業能夠迎接下一個世代的挑戰這一點拜託部長會我們會努力來做那我們努力保持住這個曾經被票選為最能代表台灣小吃的這個蚵仔煎希望它可以繼續成為我們記憶中最台灣的這個味道那另外本席想要問的就是剛才好多位委員都在講\n\n17\n00:05:28,627 --> 00:05:38,194\n有關於這個我們台灣的糧食安全糧食自主希望說這個糧食自主糧食安全絕對不能拱手送出絕對不能夠農產品零關稅進口尤其是稻米部長這一點是不是可以請您給我一個說明說現在我們談判的狀況\n\n18\n00:05:48,061 --> 00:06:15,596\n我之前已經說過了就是在整個農業談判過程中我們一定是尋求雙贏的前提那就農業部來講我們一定會確保糧食安全那糧食安全裡面一個非常重要的品項就是稻米所以稻米的部分我想我們會堅守我們農業部的立場就是說我們會保護因為它是糧食安全必要的一個品項然後我們也會讓產業的永續發展所以我們才會有糧食產業的升級方案\n\n19\n00:06:15,976 --> 00:06:21,639\n部長我舉一個例子上個禮拜日本的首相石破茂接受採訪的時候他就明確表達說絕對不會因為汽車而犧牲他們日本的農業那我也希望說部長也跟我們的賴總統建言說絕對不能犧牲農業也絕對不能零關稅進口這一點部長可以幫助農民過嗎我們農業部本身的態度非常明確那院長也講到農民優先\n\n20\n00:06:44,352 --> 00:06:57,922\n總統也講不會放棄任何一個產業然後也特別關心我們的糧食的安全所以這個部分我想我們在談判過程中一定會用我們保護我們的農民的權益為前提之下去尋求雙贏\n\n21\n00:06:59,383 --> 00:07:10,692\n本席對您是有很深的期待既然您對您的這個方案有那麼多的堅持那最後我們其實是有取得共識就是有一個大家說你說漲1.5塊然後可以怎麼樣三年可以怎麼樣我們都接受了\n\n22\n00:07:15,336 --> 00:07:31,087\n但是你一定要用實際的行動去證明說這個方案有效而且絕對不能夠讓步假設你還零關稅進口的話我們這些方案我們兩個想的再美好都抵不過美國米便宜的美國米\n\n23\n00:07:32,448 --> 00:07:47,530\n我跟委員說明喔總統當時講零關稅談起不是說我們農產品都是零關稅這個我所了解我們如果零關稅我們完全沒有機會耶所以我們從來沒有在任職的談判過程中從來沒有用這種思維去處理的\n\n24\n00:07:47,850 --> 00:08:06,446\n是所以拜託您一定要堅守住這個防線我想我們努力上週五那個農民自主行動聯盟有來到立法院來訴求來抗議他們希望說絕對不能農產品零關稅進口尤其是稻米那他們也有一個蠻務實的建議就是說在談判的過程當中可以納入農民團體消費者團體食安跟農政學者的民間代表\n\n25\n00:08:14,414 --> 00:08:21,645\n讓人民也可以透過制度參與重大的農業談判那我想這也非常的合理不曉得部長願不願意在談判過程納入他們的聲音\n\n26\n00:08:25,270 --> 00:08:45,224\n我想農民產業的意見農業部隨時在溝通但是談判小組有談判小組的策略因為談判小組本身的這些策略其實我們的任何的這些策略的方案都會根據對方的一些挑戰或是一些需求來做動態的調整\n\n27\n00:08:46,565 --> 00:09:13,837\n所以農民的需求我們隨時掌握那這樣子本席是不是也請部長是不是也能夠主動來關心這些農民團體的這個聲音既然是您來召開吧您來召開吧他們聚集起來看他們到底是需求什麼因為我知道您也是很樂意下鄉的嘛尤其今天如果解凍案完成多了這33億我想你有很多可能現在握在整個掌控在布裡面的大家就可以趕快去幫助這些農漁民了好不好\n\n28\n00:09:16,118 --> 00:09:18,501\n我們會努力去跟農民做溝通好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4918\t7119\t謝謝主席 我想請陳部長來 請部長部長早安我想先請問您一個比較輕鬆的問題這個蚵仔煎跟蚵仔麵線你比較喜歡哪一個還是都喜歡我經常是蚵仔麵線配蚵仔煎\n30234\t34076\t這個很棒的組合我自己也非常非常喜歡吃蚵仔煎跟蚵仔米騷就是你我從小吃到大的味道那背後靠的其實就是無數的這個科農撐起來的那接下來我想要請教部長您知道我們台灣整個牡蠣產業關係到多少人的生計嗎\n52659\t67814\t我知道現在目前大概有兩千多戶嘛那一戶如果用四個人去算那光養殖區大概就有八千八千應該不止八千多人啊還有那個他的一個產業鏈那個至少大概一萬五到兩萬以上\n72458\t86129\t可能本席這邊的資料更多一點可能有2萬至4萬左右後面還有很多請教對那他們的平均年齡目前本席拿到的資料是55歲所以就是這2至4萬人每年創造41億的產值那現在台灣的養科產業卻面臨非常嚴重的一個挑戰就是越南進口牡蠣的問題這個部分部長了解嗎\n99915\t109187\t我了解就是從108年開始越南的牡蠣大概開始從2000噸到去年大概是69000多噸是那這段時間剛好2000噸到69000多噸6000進口啦進口對然後最主要是因為\n115775\t135153\t我們這幾年來養蚵的剛好遇到一些天然災害所以我們的產量有降低那整體的需求大概是兩萬到兩萬兩千噸左右這個是我們的消費需求所以它有一些會越南的戶我當然理解但是現在本席比較擔心的是就是這個\n136374\t139475\t蚵仔覆苗的問題因為沒有苗哪有蚵那當然你說如果氣節調節這個我們都可以理解但是呢我們現在台灣的蚵苗啊現在大部分包括九成喔都是靠海放竹架看老天爺的臉色對啊就雲林嘉義我們全部都是\n159782\t174019\t自然覆苗那這個部分呢就等於是會拉低我們的競爭力我們現在台灣的人工覆苗的技術如何呢跟委員報告現在人工覆苗技術在我們水事所的開發之下現在已經基本上成功\n174560\t190093\t那現在問題就是價格的問題然後水市所這邊有雲林的養科的相關的協會有進駐然後他們現在的量技術也學到了所以我在想就是說他現在目前大概是從40塊已經降到29塊了\n192775\t198661\t這就是本席想要講的部長很瞭解這個狀況也掌握這個重點重點就在於價錢中國大陸跟越南他們的人工覆苗價格成本比我們低因為他們量多\n209171\t224244\t所以他們的競爭力就比我們好那我們台灣不是沒有這個技術我們水市所的技術也很高但是就是成本太高這一點部長有什麼因應的辦法嗎這個部分我正在跟漁業署跟水市所協調\n225845\t244023\t我們的苗一定是後端的農民、漁民要用所以我可能在不管是雲林、嘉峪或台南我們先找一些釋放區讓他們用人工的苗去培育如果說釋放區不錯的時候漁民就會跟上\n244804\t257129\t所以這個部分如果說我們有找到相關的區位的時候我前端的那些人工養殖的苗我可能做一些小部分的這些加差的一個協助我們不要用補助我們用協助這樣子的話可能\n260470\t265192\t讓這個示範區能夠順利的養成那農民後面才會跟進對這就是本席想要建議給部長的就是說我們要趕快跟進我們要趕快把鼓勵農民人工覆苗因為這個價格如果降低然後覆苗這個率\n278476\t281978\t可以說是提高的話那農民他的收入也會更穩定而且我們也會減少對於越南這個進口牡蠣的需求這一點我也是希望部長可以幫忙因為我們其實不是沒有產池不是沒有技術更不是沒有市場所以現在最最需要的就是部長跟署長挺身而出幫他們一把\n304589\t311634\t讓他們這個產業能夠迎接下一個世代的挑戰這一點拜託部長會 我們會努力來做那我們努力保持住這個曾經被票選為最能代表台灣小吃的這個蚵仔煎希望它可以繼續成為我們記憶中最台灣的這個味道那另外本席想要問的就是剛才好多位委員都在講\n328627\t338194\t有關於這個我們台灣的糧食安全 糧食自主希望說這個糧食自主 糧食安全絕對不能拱手送出絕對不能夠農產品零關稅進口尤其是稻米部長這一點是不是可以請您給我一個說明說現在我們談判的狀況\n348061\t375596\t我之前已經說過了就是在整個農業談判過程中我們一定是尋求雙贏的前提那就農業部來講我們一定會確保糧食安全那糧食安全裡面一個非常重要的品項就是稻米所以稻米的部分我想我們會堅守我們農業部的立場就是說我們會保護因為它是糧食安全必要的一個品項然後我們也會讓產業的永續發展所以我們才會有糧食產業的升級方案\n375976\t381639\t部長我舉一個例子上個禮拜日本的首相石破茂接受採訪的時候他就明確表達說絕對不會因為汽車而犧牲他們日本的農業那我也希望說部長也跟我們的賴總統建言說絕對不能犧牲農業也絕對不能零關稅進口這一點部長可以幫助農民過嗎我們農業部本身的態度非常明確那院長也講到農民優先\n404352\t417922\t總統也講不會放棄任何一個產業然後也特別關心我們的糧食的安全所以這個部分我想我們在談判過程中一定會用我們保護我們的農民的權益為前提之下去尋求雙贏\n419383\t430692\t本席對您是有很深的期待既然您對您的這個方案有那麼多的堅持那最後我們其實是有取得共識就是有一個大家說你說漲1.5塊然後可以怎麼樣三年可以怎麼樣我們都接受了\n435336\t451087\t但是你一定要用實際的行動去證明說這個方案有效而且絕對不能夠讓步假設你還零關稅進口的話我們這些方案我們兩個想的再美好都抵不過美國米便宜的美國米\n452448\t467530\t我跟委員說明喔總統當時講零關稅談起不是說我們農產品都是零關稅這個我所了解我們如果零關稅我們完全沒有機會耶所以我們從來沒有在任職的談判過程中從來沒有用這種思維去處理的\n467850\t486446\t是 所以拜託您一定要堅守住這個防線我想我們努力上週五那個農民自主行動聯盟有來到立法院來訴求來抗議他們希望說絕對不能農產品零關稅進口尤其是稻米那他們也有一個蠻務實的建議就是說在談判的過程當中可以納入農民團體 消費者團體食安跟農政學者的民間代表\n494414\t501645\t讓人民也可以透過制度參與重大的農業談判那我想這也非常的合理不曉得部長願不願意在談判過程納入他們的聲音\n505270\t525224\t我想農民產業的意見農業部隨時在溝通但是談判小組有談判小組的策略因為談判小組本身的這些策略其實我們的任何的這些策略的方案都會根據對方的一些挑戰或是一些需求來做動態的調整\n526565\t553837\t所以農民的需求我們隨時掌握那這樣子本席是不是也請部長是不是也能夠主動來關心這些農民團體的這個聲音既然是您來召開吧 您來召開吧他們聚集起來看他們到底是需求什麼因為我知道您也是很樂意下鄉的嘛尤其今天如果解凍案完成多了這33億我想你有很多可能現在握在整個掌控在布裡面的大家就可以趕快去幫助這些農漁民了好不好\n556118\t558501\t我們會努力去跟農民做溝通好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我想請陳部長來 請部長部長早安我想先請問您一個比較輕鬆的問題這個蚵仔煎跟蚵仔麵線你比較喜歡哪一個還是都喜歡我經常是蚵仔麵線配蚵仔煎\n這個很棒的組合我自己也非常非常喜歡吃蚵仔煎跟蚵仔米騷就是你我從小吃到大的味道那背後靠的其實就是無數的這個科農撐起來的那接下來我想要請教部長您知道我們台灣整個牡蠣產業關係到多少人的生計嗎\n我知道現在目前大概有兩千多戶嘛那一戶如果用四個人去算那光養殖區大概就有八千八千應該不止八千多人啊還有那個他的一個產業鏈那個至少大概一萬五到兩萬以上\n可能本席這邊的資料更多一點可能有2萬至4萬左右後面還有很多請教對那他們的平均年齡目前本席拿到的資料是55歲所以就是這2至4萬人每年創造41億的產值那現在台灣的養科產業卻面臨非常嚴重的一個挑戰就是越南進口牡蠣的問題這個部分部長了解嗎\n我了解就是從108年開始越南的牡蠣大概開始從2000噸到去年大概是69000多噸是那這段時間剛好2000噸到69000多噸6000進口啦進口對然後最主要是因為\n我們這幾年來養蚵的剛好遇到一些天然災害所以我們的產量有降低那整體的需求大概是兩萬到兩萬兩千噸左右這個是我們的消費需求所以它有一些會越南的戶我當然理解但是現在本席比較擔心的是就是這個\n蚵仔覆苗的問題因為沒有苗哪有蚵那當然你說如果氣節調節這個我們都可以理解但是呢我們現在台灣的蚵苗啊現在大部分包括九成喔都是靠海放竹架看老天爺的臉色對啊就雲林嘉義我們全部都是\n自然覆苗那這個部分呢就等於是會拉低我們的競爭力我們現在台灣的人工覆苗的技術如何呢跟委員報告現在人工覆苗技術在我們水事所的開發之下現在已經基本上成功\n那現在問題就是價格的問題然後水市所這邊有雲林的養科的相關的協會有進駐然後他們現在的量技術也學到了所以我在想就是說他現在目前大概是從40塊已經降到29塊了\n這就是本席想要講的部長很瞭解這個狀況也掌握這個重點重點就在於價錢中國大陸跟越南他們的人工覆苗價格成本比我們低因為他們量多\n所以他們的競爭力就比我們好那我們台灣不是沒有這個技術我們水市所的技術也很高但是就是成本太高這一點部長有什麼因應的辦法嗎這個部分我正在跟漁業署跟水市所協調\n我們的苗一定是後端的農民、漁民要用所以我可能在不管是雲林、嘉峪或台南我們先找一些釋放區讓他們用人工的苗去培育如果說釋放區不錯的時候漁民就會跟上\n所以這個部分如果說我們有找到相關的區位的時候我前端的那些人工養殖的苗我可能做一些小部分的這些加差的一個協助我們不要用補助我們用協助這樣子的話可能\n讓這個示範區能夠順利的養成那農民後面才會跟進對這就是本席想要建議給部長的就是說我們要趕快跟進我們要趕快把鼓勵農民人工覆苗因為這個價格如果降低然後覆苗這個率\n可以說是提高的話那農民他的收入也會更穩定而且我們也會減少對於越南這個進口牡蠣的需求這一點我也是希望部長可以幫忙因為我們其實不是沒有產池不是沒有技術更不是沒有市場所以現在最最需要的就是部長跟署長挺身而出幫他們一把\n讓他們這個產業能夠迎接下一個世代的挑戰這一點拜託部長會 我們會努力來做那我們努力保持住這個曾經被票選為最能代表台灣小吃的這個蚵仔煎希望它可以繼續成為我們記憶中最台灣的這個味道那另外本席想要問的就是剛才好多位委員都在講\n有關於這個我們台灣的糧食安全 糧食自主希望說這個糧食自主 糧食安全絕對不能拱手送出絕對不能夠農產品零關稅進口尤其是稻米部長這一點是不是可以請您給我一個說明說現在我們談判的狀況\n我之前已經說過了就是在整個農業談判過程中我們一定是尋求雙贏的前提那就農業部來講我們一定會確保糧食安全那糧食安全裡面一個非常重要的品項就是稻米所以稻米的部分我想我們會堅守我們農業部的立場就是說我們會保護因為它是糧食安全必要的一個品項然後我們也會讓產業的永續發展所以我們才會有糧食產業的升級方案\n部長我舉一個例子上個禮拜日本的首相石破茂接受採訪的時候他就明確表達說絕對不會因為汽車而犧牲他們日本的農業那我也希望說部長也跟我們的賴總統建言說絕對不能犧牲農業也絕對不能零關稅進口這一點部長可以幫助農民過嗎我們農業部本身的態度非常明確那院長也講到農民優先\n總統也講不會放棄任何一個產業然後也特別關心我們的糧食的安全所以這個部分我想我們在談判過程中一定會用我們保護我們的農民的權益為前提之下去尋求雙贏\n本席對您是有很深的期待既然您對您的這個方案有那麼多的堅持那最後我們其實是有取得共識就是有一個大家說你說漲1.5塊然後可以怎麼樣三年可以怎麼樣我們都接受了\n但是你一定要用實際的行動去證明說這個方案有效而且絕對不能夠讓步假設你還零關稅進口的話我們這些方案我們兩個想的再美好都抵不過美國米便宜的美國米\n我跟委員說明喔總統當時講零關稅談起不是說我們農產品都是零關稅這個我所了解我們如果零關稅我們完全沒有機會耶所以我們從來沒有在任職的談判過程中從來沒有用這種思維去處理的\n是 所以拜託您一定要堅守住這個防線我想我們努力上週五那個農民自主行動聯盟有來到立法院來訴求來抗議他們希望說絕對不能農產品零關稅進口尤其是稻米那他們也有一個蠻務實的建議就是說在談判的過程當中可以納入農民團體 消費者團體食安跟農政學者的民間代表\n讓人民也可以透過制度參與重大的農業談判那我想這也非常的合理不曉得部長願不願意在談判過程納入他們的聲音\n我想農民產業的意見農業部隨時在溝通但是談判小組有談判小組的策略因為談判小組本身的這些策略其實我們的任何的這些策略的方案都會根據對方的一些挑戰或是一些需求來做動態的調整\n所以農民的需求我們隨時掌握那這樣子本席是不是也請部長是不是也能夠主動來關心這些農民團體的這個聲音既然是您來召開吧 您來召開吧他們聚集起來看他們到底是需求什麼因為我知道您也是很樂意下鄉的嘛尤其今天如果解凍案完成多了這33億我想你有很多可能現在握在整個掌控在布裡面的大家就可以趕快去幫助這些農漁民了好不好\n我們會努力去跟農民做溝通好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.918 --> 00:07.119\n謝謝主席我想請陳部長來請部長部長早安我想先請問您一個比較輕鬆的問題這個蚵仔煎跟蚵仔麵線你比較喜歡哪一個還是都喜歡我經常是蚵仔麵線配蚵仔煎\n\n00:30.234 --> 00:34.076\n這個很棒的組合我自己也非常非常喜歡吃蚵仔煎跟蚵仔米騷就是你我從小吃到大的味道那背後靠的其實就是無數的這個科農撐起來的那接下來我想要請教部長您知道我們台灣整個牡蠣產業關係到多少人的生計嗎\n\n00:52.659 --> 01:07.814\n我知道現在目前大概有兩千多戶嘛那一戶如果用四個人去算那光養殖區大概就有八千八千應該不止八千多人啊還有那個他的一個產業鏈那個至少大概一萬五到兩萬以上\n\n01:12.458 --> 01:26.129\n可能本席這邊的資料更多一點可能有2萬至4萬左右後面還有很多請教對那他們的平均年齡目前本席拿到的資料是55歲所以就是這2至4萬人每年創造41億的產值那現在台灣的養科產業卻面臨非常嚴重的一個挑戰就是越南進口牡蠣的問題這個部分部長了解嗎\n\n01:39.915 --> 01:49.187\n我了解就是從108年開始越南的牡蠣大概開始從2000噸到去年大概是69000多噸是那這段時間剛好2000噸到69000多噸6000進口啦進口對然後最主要是因為\n\n01:55.775 --> 02:15.153\n我們這幾年來養蚵的剛好遇到一些天然災害所以我們的產量有降低那整體的需求大概是兩萬到兩萬兩千噸左右這個是我們的消費需求所以它有一些會越南的戶我當然理解但是現在本席比較擔心的是就是這個\n\n02:16.374 --> 02:19.475\n蚵仔覆苗的問題因為沒有苗哪有蚵那當然你說如果氣節調節這個我們都可以理解但是呢我們現在台灣的蚵苗啊現在大部分包括九成喔都是靠海放竹架看老天爺的臉色對啊就雲林嘉義我們全部都是\n\n02:39.782 --> 02:54.019\n自然覆苗那這個部分呢就等於是會拉低我們的競爭力我們現在台灣的人工覆苗的技術如何呢跟委員報告現在人工覆苗技術在我們水事所的開發之下現在已經基本上成功\n\n02:54.560 --> 03:10.093\n那現在問題就是價格的問題然後水市所這邊有雲林的養科的相關的協會有進駐然後他們現在的量技術也學到了所以我在想就是說他現在目前大概是從40塊已經降到29塊了\n\n03:12.775 --> 03:18.661\n這就是本席想要講的部長很瞭解這個狀況也掌握這個重點重點就在於價錢中國大陸跟越南他們的人工覆苗價格成本比我們低因為他們量多\n\n03:29.171 --> 03:44.244\n所以他們的競爭力就比我們好那我們台灣不是沒有這個技術我們水市所的技術也很高但是就是成本太高這一點部長有什麼因應的辦法嗎這個部分我正在跟漁業署跟水市所協調\n\n03:45.845 --> 04:04.023\n我們的苗一定是後端的農民、漁民要用所以我可能在不管是雲林、嘉峪或台南我們先找一些釋放區讓他們用人工的苗去培育如果說釋放區不錯的時候漁民就會跟上\n\n04:04.804 --> 04:17.129\n所以這個部分如果說我們有找到相關的區位的時候我前端的那些人工養殖的苗我可能做一些小部分的這些加差的一個協助我們不要用補助我們用協助這樣子的話可能\n\n04:20.470 --> 04:25.192\n讓這個示範區能夠順利的養成那農民後面才會跟進對這就是本席想要建議給部長的就是說我們要趕快跟進我們要趕快把鼓勵農民人工覆苗因為這個價格如果降低然後覆苗這個率\n\n04:38.476 --> 04:41.978\n可以說是提高的話那農民他的收入也會更穩定而且我們也會減少對於越南這個進口牡蠣的需求這一點我也是希望部長可以幫忙因為我們其實不是沒有產池不是沒有技術更不是沒有市場所以現在最最需要的就是部長跟署長挺身而出幫他們一把\n\n05:04.589 --> 05:11.634\n讓他們這個產業能夠迎接下一個世代的挑戰這一點拜託部長會我們會努力來做那我們努力保持住這個曾經被票選為最能代表台灣小吃的這個蚵仔煎希望它可以繼續成為我們記憶中最台灣的這個味道那另外本席想要問的就是剛才好多位委員都在講\n\n05:28.627 --> 05:38.194\n有關於這個我們台灣的糧食安全糧食自主希望說這個糧食自主糧食安全絕對不能拱手送出絕對不能夠農產品零關稅進口尤其是稻米部長這一點是不是可以請您給我一個說明說現在我們談判的狀況\n\n05:48.061 --> 06:15.596\n我之前已經說過了就是在整個農業談判過程中我們一定是尋求雙贏的前提那就農業部來講我們一定會確保糧食安全那糧食安全裡面一個非常重要的品項就是稻米所以稻米的部分我想我們會堅守我們農業部的立場就是說我們會保護因為它是糧食安全必要的一個品項然後我們也會讓產業的永續發展所以我們才會有糧食產業的升級方案\n\n06:15.976 --> 06:21.639\n部長我舉一個例子上個禮拜日本的首相石破茂接受採訪的時候他就明確表達說絕對不會因為汽車而犧牲他們日本的農業那我也希望說部長也跟我們的賴總統建言說絕對不能犧牲農業也絕對不能零關稅進口這一點部長可以幫助農民過嗎我們農業部本身的態度非常明確那院長也講到農民優先\n\n06:44.352 --> 06:57.922\n總統也講不會放棄任何一個產業然後也特別關心我們的糧食的安全所以這個部分我想我們在談判過程中一定會用我們保護我們的農民的權益為前提之下去尋求雙贏\n\n06:59.383 --> 07:10.692\n本席對您是有很深的期待既然您對您的這個方案有那麼多的堅持那最後我們其實是有取得共識就是有一個大家說你說漲1.5塊然後可以怎麼樣三年可以怎麼樣我們都接受了\n\n07:15.336 --> 07:31.087\n但是你一定要用實際的行動去證明說這個方案有效而且絕對不能夠讓步假設你還零關稅進口的話我們這些方案我們兩個想的再美好都抵不過美國米便宜的美國米\n\n07:32.448 --> 07:47.530\n我跟委員說明喔總統當時講零關稅談起不是說我們農產品都是零關稅這個我所了解我們如果零關稅我們完全沒有機會耶所以我們從來沒有在任職的談判過程中從來沒有用這種思維去處理的\n\n07:47.850 --> 08:06.446\n是所以拜託您一定要堅守住這個防線我想我們努力上週五那個農民自主行動聯盟有來到立法院來訴求來抗議他們希望說絕對不能農產品零關稅進口尤其是稻米那他們也有一個蠻務實的建議就是說在談判的過程當中可以納入農民團體消費者團體食安跟農政學者的民間代表\n\n08:14.414 --> 08:21.645\n讓人民也可以透過制度參與重大的農業談判那我想這也非常的合理不曉得部長願不願意在談判過程納入他們的聲音\n\n08:25.270 --> 08:45.224\n我想農民產業的意見農業部隨時在溝通但是談判小組有談判小組的策略因為談判小組本身的這些策略其實我們的任何的這些策略的方案都會根據對方的一些挑戰或是一些需求來做動態的調整\n\n08:46.565 --> 09:13.837\n所以農民的需求我們隨時掌握那這樣子本席是不是也請部長是不是也能夠主動來關心這些農民團體的這個聲音既然是您來召開吧您來召開吧他們聚集起來看他們到底是需求什麼因為我知道您也是很樂意下鄉的嘛尤其今天如果解凍案完成多了這33億我想你有很多可能現在握在整個掌控在布裡面的大家就可以趕快去幫助這些農漁民了好不好\n\n09:16.118 --> 09:18.501\n我們會努力去跟農民做溝通好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.918,"end":7.119,"text":"謝謝主席 我想請陳部長來 請部長部長早安我想先請問您一個比較輕鬆的問題這個蚵仔煎跟蚵仔麵線你比較喜歡哪一個還是都喜歡我經常是蚵仔麵線配蚵仔煎"},{"start":30.234,"end":34.076,"text":"這個很棒的組合我自己也非常非常喜歡吃蚵仔煎跟蚵仔米騷就是你我從小吃到大的味道那背後靠的其實就是無數的這個科農撐起來的那接下來我想要請教部長您知道我們台灣整個牡蠣產業關係到多少人的生計嗎"},{"start":52.659,"end":67.814,"text":"我知道現在目前大概有兩千多戶嘛那一戶如果用四個人去算那光養殖區大概就有八千八千應該不止八千多人啊還有那個他的一個產業鏈那個至少大概一萬五到兩萬以上"},{"start":72.458,"end":86.129,"text":"可能本席這邊的資料更多一點可能有2萬至4萬左右後面還有很多請教對那他們的平均年齡目前本席拿到的資料是55歲所以就是這2至4萬人每年創造41億的產值那現在台灣的養科產業卻面臨非常嚴重的一個挑戰就是越南進口牡蠣的問題這個部分部長了解嗎"},{"start":99.915,"end":109.187,"text":"我了解就是從108年開始越南的牡蠣大概開始從2000噸到去年大概是69000多噸是那這段時間剛好2000噸到69000多噸6000進口啦進口對然後最主要是因為"},{"start":115.775,"end":135.153,"text":"我們這幾年來養蚵的剛好遇到一些天然災害所以我們的產量有降低那整體的需求大概是兩萬到兩萬兩千噸左右這個是我們的消費需求所以它有一些會越南的戶我當然理解但是現在本席比較擔心的是就是這個"},{"start":136.374,"end":139.475,"text":"蚵仔覆苗的問題因為沒有苗哪有蚵那當然你說如果氣節調節這個我們都可以理解但是呢我們現在台灣的蚵苗啊現在大部分包括九成喔都是靠海放竹架看老天爺的臉色對啊就雲林嘉義我們全部都是"},{"start":159.782,"end":174.019,"text":"自然覆苗那這個部分呢就等於是會拉低我們的競爭力我們現在台灣的人工覆苗的技術如何呢跟委員報告現在人工覆苗技術在我們水事所的開發之下現在已經基本上成功"},{"start":174.56,"end":190.093,"text":"那現在問題就是價格的問題然後水市所這邊有雲林的養科的相關的協會有進駐然後他們現在的量技術也學到了所以我在想就是說他現在目前大概是從40塊已經降到29塊了"},{"start":192.775,"end":198.661,"text":"這就是本席想要講的部長很瞭解這個狀況也掌握這個重點重點就在於價錢中國大陸跟越南他們的人工覆苗價格成本比我們低因為他們量多"},{"start":209.171,"end":224.244,"text":"所以他們的競爭力就比我們好那我們台灣不是沒有這個技術我們水市所的技術也很高但是就是成本太高這一點部長有什麼因應的辦法嗎這個部分我正在跟漁業署跟水市所協調"},{"start":225.845,"end":244.023,"text":"我們的苗一定是後端的農民、漁民要用所以我可能在不管是雲林、嘉峪或台南我們先找一些釋放區讓他們用人工的苗去培育如果說釋放區不錯的時候漁民就會跟上"},{"start":244.804,"end":257.129,"text":"所以這個部分如果說我們有找到相關的區位的時候我前端的那些人工養殖的苗我可能做一些小部分的這些加差的一個協助我們不要用補助我們用協助這樣子的話可能"},{"start":260.47,"end":265.192,"text":"讓這個示範區能夠順利的養成那農民後面才會跟進對這就是本席想要建議給部長的就是說我們要趕快跟進我們要趕快把鼓勵農民人工覆苗因為這個價格如果降低然後覆苗這個率"},{"start":278.476,"end":281.978,"text":"可以說是提高的話那農民他的收入也會更穩定而且我們也會減少對於越南這個進口牡蠣的需求這一點我也是希望部長可以幫忙因為我們其實不是沒有產池不是沒有技術更不是沒有市場所以現在最最需要的就是部長跟署長挺身而出幫他們一把"},{"start":304.589,"end":311.634,"text":"讓他們這個產業能夠迎接下一個世代的挑戰這一點拜託部長會 我們會努力來做那我們努力保持住這個曾經被票選為最能代表台灣小吃的這個蚵仔煎希望它可以繼續成為我們記憶中最台灣的這個味道那另外本席想要問的就是剛才好多位委員都在講"},{"start":328.627,"end":338.194,"text":"有關於這個我們台灣的糧食安全 糧食自主希望說這個糧食自主 糧食安全絕對不能拱手送出絕對不能夠農產品零關稅進口尤其是稻米部長這一點是不是可以請您給我一個說明說現在我們談判的狀況"},{"start":348.061,"end":375.596,"text":"我之前已經說過了就是在整個農業談判過程中我們一定是尋求雙贏的前提那就農業部來講我們一定會確保糧食安全那糧食安全裡面一個非常重要的品項就是稻米所以稻米的部分我想我們會堅守我們農業部的立場就是說我們會保護因為它是糧食安全必要的一個品項然後我們也會讓產業的永續發展所以我們才會有糧食產業的升級方案"},{"start":375.976,"end":381.639,"text":"部長我舉一個例子上個禮拜日本的首相石破茂接受採訪的時候他就明確表達說絕對不會因為汽車而犧牲他們日本的農業那我也希望說部長也跟我們的賴總統建言說絕對不能犧牲農業也絕對不能零關稅進口這一點部長可以幫助農民過嗎我們農業部本身的態度非常明確那院長也講到農民優先"},{"start":404.352,"end":417.922,"text":"總統也講不會放棄任何一個產業然後也特別關心我們的糧食的安全所以這個部分我想我們在談判過程中一定會用我們保護我們的農民的權益為前提之下去尋求雙贏"},{"start":419.383,"end":430.692,"text":"本席對您是有很深的期待既然您對您的這個方案有那麼多的堅持那最後我們其實是有取得共識就是有一個大家說你說漲1.5塊然後可以怎麼樣三年可以怎麼樣我們都接受了"},{"start":435.336,"end":451.087,"text":"但是你一定要用實際的行動去證明說這個方案有效而且絕對不能夠讓步假設你還零關稅進口的話我們這些方案我們兩個想的再美好都抵不過美國米便宜的美國米"},{"start":452.448,"end":467.53,"text":"我跟委員說明喔總統當時講零關稅談起不是說我們農產品都是零關稅這個我所了解我們如果零關稅我們完全沒有機會耶所以我們從來沒有在任職的談判過程中從來沒有用這種思維去處理的"},{"start":467.85,"end":486.446,"text":"是 所以拜託您一定要堅守住這個防線我想我們努力上週五那個農民自主行動聯盟有來到立法院來訴求來抗議他們希望說絕對不能農產品零關稅進口尤其是稻米那他們也有一個蠻務實的建議就是說在談判的過程當中可以納入農民團體 消費者團體食安跟農政學者的民間代表"},{"start":494.414,"end":501.645,"text":"讓人民也可以透過制度參與重大的農業談判那我想這也非常的合理不曉得部長願不願意在談判過程納入他們的聲音"},{"start":505.27,"end":525.224,"text":"我想農民產業的意見農業部隨時在溝通但是談判小組有談判小組的策略因為談判小組本身的這些策略其實我們的任何的這些策略的方案都會根據對方的一些挑戰或是一些需求來做動態的調整"},{"start":526.565,"end":553.837,"text":"所以農民的需求我們隨時掌握那這樣子本席是不是也請部長是不是也能夠主動來關心這些農民團體的這個聲音既然是您來召開吧 您來召開吧他們聚集起來看他們到底是需求什麼因為我知道您也是很樂意下鄉的嘛尤其今天如果解凍案完成多了這33億我想你有很多可能現在握在整個掌控在布裡面的大家就可以趕快去幫助這些農漁民了好不好"},{"start":556.118,"end":558.501,"text":"我們會努力去跟農民做溝通好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":499,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（10時45分）謝謝主席，請陳部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長早安。我先請問您一個比較輕鬆的問題，蚵仔煎跟蚵仔麵線，你比較喜歡哪一個？還是都喜歡？"],["陳部長駿季：我經常是蚵仔麵線配蚵仔煎。"],["張委員嘉郡：這是個很棒的組合。"],["陳部長駿季：對啊！夜市都這樣吃，夜市都這樣吃啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：對，對，我自己也非常喜歡吃蚵仔煎跟蚵仔麵線，這是你我從小吃到大的味道，背後靠的其實就是無數的蚵農撐起來的。接下來我想要請教部長，您知道我們臺灣整個牡蠣產業關係到多少人的生計嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我知道目前大概有兩千多戶，一戶如果用4個人計算，光養殖區大概就有八千……應該不只……"],["張委員嘉郡：不只，我目前……"],["陳部長駿季：八千多，還有牠的產業鏈，那個至少1萬5到2萬以上。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，本席這邊的資料更多一點，可能有2萬至4萬左右……"],["陳部長駿季：後面還有很多行銷……"],["張委員嘉郡：對，對，目前他們的平均年齡，本席拿到的資料是55歲，就是這2萬至4萬人每年創造41億產值，但現在臺灣的養蚵產業卻面臨非常嚴重的挑戰，就是越南進口牡蠣的問題，這個部分部長了解嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我所了解的是從108年開始，越南牡蠣進口量大概從2,000噸到去年的六萬九千多噸，這段時間剛好……"],["張委員嘉郡：2,000噸到六萬九千多噸？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，6,000噸，進口啦！"],["張委員嘉郡：進口，對。"],["陳部長駿季：最主要是因為這幾年養蚵業剛好遇到一些天然災害，所以產量有降低，整體需求大概是2萬到2萬2,000噸左右，這是我們的消費需求，所以有一些……"],["張委員嘉郡：互補。"],["陳部長駿季：越南的……"],["張委員嘉郡：這我當然理解，但現在本席比較擔心的是蚵仔附苗的問題，因為沒有苗哪有蚵，當然如果是季節調節，這個我們都可以理解，但是現在臺灣的蚵苗，大概九成都是靠海放竹架看老天爺臉色……"],["陳部長駿季：都是雲林供應的。"],["張委員嘉郡：對啊！就雲林、嘉義，我們全部都是……"],["陳部長駿季：天然附苗。"],["張委員嘉郡：自然附苗，但這個部分等於會拉低我們的競爭力，請問現在臺灣的人工附苗技術如何呢？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，現在的人工附苗技術，在我們水試所的開發之下，基本上已經成功，問題是在於價格，目前水試所有雲林養蚵的相關協會進駐，相關技術他們也學到了，所以目前大概已經從40塊降到29塊，那……"],["張委員嘉郡：這就是本席想要講的，部長很了解狀況，也掌握相關重點，重點就在於價錢……"],["陳部長駿季：價格的問題。"],["張委員嘉郡：中國大陸和越南的人工附苗價格成本比我們低……"],["陳部長駿季：因為他們量多。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以他們的競爭力比我們好，我們臺灣不是沒有這個技術，我們水試所的技術也很高，但就是成本太高，這一點部長有什麼因應辦法嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分我正在跟漁業署和水試所協調，因為我們的苗一定是後端的農民、漁民使用，所以我們可能會在雲林、嘉義或臺南先找一些示範區，讓他們用人工的苗去培育，如果示範區做的不錯，漁民就會跟上，這個部分，如果我們有找到相關區位，前端的那些人工養殖的苗可能會做一些小部分的價差協助……"],["張委員嘉郡：補助。"],["陳部長駿季：我們不用補助，我們用協助，這樣的話，就可能讓這個示範區能夠順利養成，後面農民才會跟進。"],["張委員嘉郡：對，這就是本席想要建議部長的，我們要趕快跟進，鼓勵農民人工附苗，因為如果價格可以降低，附苗率可以提高，那麼農民的收入也會更穩定，而且也能減少對越南進口牡蠣的需求，這一點我希望部長可以幫忙，因為我們不是沒有產值、沒有技術，更不是沒有市場，所以現在最需要的，就是部長和署長挺身而出幫他們一把，讓他們這個產業能夠迎接下一個世代的挑戰，這一點要拜託部長。"],["陳部長駿季：會，我們會努力來做。"],["張委員嘉郡：那我們努力保持住這個曾經被票選為最能代表臺灣小吃的蚵仔煎，希望它可以繼續成為我們記憶中最臺灣的味道。","另外，剛才好多位委員提到有關於臺灣糧食安全、糧食自主的問題，希望糧食自主、糧食安全絕對不能拱手送出，絕對不能讓農產品零關稅進口，尤其是稻米，部長，針對這一點，是不是可以請您說明目前談判的狀況？"],["陳部長駿季：我之前已經說過了，在整個農業談判過程中，我們一定是尋求雙贏的前提，就農業部來講，我們一定會確保糧食安全，而糧食安全裡面一個非常重要的品項就是稻米，所以稻米的部分，我們會……"],["張委員嘉郡：22萬戶的稻農……"],["陳部長駿季：我們會堅守農業部的立場予以保護，因為它是糧食安全必要的一個品項，然後我們也希望產業能夠永續發展，所以我們才會有糧食產業升級方案，這個部分我們一定會捍衛。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長，我舉一個例子，上個禮拜日本首相石破茂接受採訪時明確表示，絕對不會因為汽車而犧牲日本的農業。我希望部長也可以向賴總統建言，絕對不能犧牲農業，也絕對不能零關稅進口，這一點部長可以幫助農民嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：農業部的態度非常明確，院長也講過農民優先，然後總統也提到不會放棄任何一個產業，也特別關心我們的糧食安全，所以我們在談判過程中，一定會在保護農民權益的前提之下尋求雙贏。"],["張委員嘉郡：本席對您有很深的期待，既然您對您的方案有那麼多堅持，最後我們其實是有取得共識，就是你說漲1.5塊可以怎麼樣，然後三年可以怎麼樣等等，這些我們都接受，但是你一定要用實際行動證明這個方案有效，而且絕對不能讓步，假設還是零關稅進口的話，那麼這些方案我們兩個想得再美好，都抵不過便宜的美國米。"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員說明，總統當初講零關稅談起，不是說農產品都是零關稅，我所了解的……"],["張委員嘉郡：如果零關稅，我們是完全沒有機會耶！"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們在任何談判過程中，從來沒有用這種思維去處理的。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，拜託您一定要堅守住這個防線。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會努力。"],["張委員嘉郡：上周五農民自主行動聯盟來立法院訴求、抗議，希望絕對不能農產品零關稅進口，尤其是稻米，他們也有一個蠻務實的建議，就是在談判的過程當中，可以納入農民團體、消費者團體、食安跟農政學者的民間代表，讓人民也可以透過制度參與重大的農業談判，我想這也非常的合理，不曉得部長願不願意在談判過程納入他們的聲音？"],["陳部長駿季：我想農民、產業的意見，農業部隨時在溝通，但是談判小組有談判小組的策略，因為談判小組本身的這些策略，其實我們任何的策略方案，都會根據對方的一些挑戰或是一些需求來做動態的調整，所以農民的需求，我們隨時掌握。"],["張委員嘉郡：這樣子，本席是不是請部長也能夠主動來關心這些農民團體的聲音？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們隨時在……"],["張委員嘉郡：您來召開吧？您來召開，把他們聚集起來，看他們到底是需求什麼，因為我知道您也是很樂意下鄉的，尤其今天如果解凍案完成，多了這33億，我想你有很多可能現在整個掌控在部裡面的，大家就可以趕快去幫助這些農漁民了，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們會努力去跟農民做溝通。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張嘉郡委員。","下一位請謝衣鳯委員。我先宣告：陳超明委員後，我們休息5分鐘，因為已經開很久了。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":130,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-13","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","林岱樺","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","謝衣鳯","陳超明","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","郭昱晴","陳冠廷","張雅琳","呂玉玲"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2025-05-19"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算有關農業部及所屬主管預算凍結案等 30案；二、處理或\n審查114年度中央政府總預算有關公平交易委員會主管預算凍結案等8案","agenda_id":"1145101_00004"}}}