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\"start\": 960.395, \"end\": 960.616, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 960.616, \"end\": 960.756, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 960.756, \"end\": 960.957, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 960.957, \"end\": 960.977, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,305 --> 00:00:13,179\n好謝謝主席那我想先請NCC謝謝麻煩NCC\n\n2\n00:00:18,317 --> 00:00:44,585\n好謝謝NCC我想今天的這個題目我覺得要先幫人民定義一件事情因為這個相關的資料我們可以看到在相關的新聞中電信三雄犧牲否認洩露個資據我看相關的新聞報導事實上相關的應用其實在3G的年代三大業縣是不是就接受NCC的監督認為相關的業務是不得已在電信公司裡面進行的我想要請您先說明一下\n\n3\n00:00:45,305 --> 00:01:00,682\n是的因為電信業者本來就是NCE所下管的業者那我們都在各自法的法尊上我們也有依據各自法27條定有安危辦法來請他們來落實這些各自維護相關事項\n\n4\n00:01:01,283 --> 00:01:17,855\n好所以截至目前為止這還是你們的轄管業務內容對嗎所以如果他們真的有做出疑似洩露個資的行為其實NCC你們會第一時間去進行調查包含主席今天排的這個案子其實當時你們已經進行調查我們看到相關業務報告對嗎對已經進行調查5月3號批落資料官5月5號5月9號都兩次來找他們來做行政調查那預計什麼時候會公布相關調查報告\n\n5\n00:01:27,467 --> 00:01:51,459\n我們也把相關的資料函送給相關機關做是否有違反各自的一些請他們處處簡單來講就是說這個簡訊的發送的流程裡頭最源頭端的簡訊代發業者的企客然後簡訊代發業者然後再來三大電信公司然後再達一般用戶那NCG能夠管的範圍是針對三大電信這一塊我們做行政調查\n\n6\n00:01:52,099 --> 00:02:06,238\n那另外代發業者跟代發業者企客那是有相關主管機關來處理因為他一個是資訊服務業者另外一個是行銷公司那個不在NCC的作用法能夠守管家範圍內好謝謝您說得非常的清楚\n\n7\n00:02:07,419 --> 00:02:35,309\n三大電信歸NCC管理人們已經做了相關調查可是所謂代發業者或是簡訊代理公司或是說廣告行銷商他們的相關業務就不歸你們管轄所以我們可不可以定義這一次也就是主席特地排案這個事件它比較接近哪一個樣態比較接近是廣告代理商的議題還是是在三大電信這邊請您再次的說明就我們完整今天調查的結果它的問題應該是出現在最上游端或者最上游端\n\n8\n00:02:36,510 --> 00:02:54,950\n簡訊代發業的企業用戶那邊他們為什麼會有這些個資資料是那一塊的部分好那這一塊其實就是國人最擔心的疑慮也就是說我們可能在非常多地方消費我們都會留下所謂會員資料或者是像我自己的小孩他可能他的學校資料就曾經被一些補習班拿去用\n\n9\n00:02:55,310 --> 00:03:19,737\n其實過往到底在民間的這些所謂商業服務公司如何使用我們每一個人的個資其實樣態是不清楚的可是確實如果收到相關的簡訊是會讓人擔心的那剛剛王逸川委員其實也有提醒到這一塊我們往下看下一張我可不可以請NCC跟我們說明到底我們身為一般消費者我就是一個不管是哪一個電信公司的門號使用者消費者我有沒有拒絕像這樣簡訊的權利有這個\n\n10\n00:03:22,998 --> 00:03:52,264\n一般民眾他如果要做電信公司提供LBS服務他必須要電信公司要問他說你同不同意我提供你LBS服務他同意的話他才會提供這個服務好那我們有沒有在過往的相關業務當中提醒民眾我們在申辦電信門號或者是當我電信門號已經使用超過一段時間我認為這個LBS的訊息確實讓我感到困擾的時候我可以做後續的主張就是如同您剛說的有這個而且他能隨時跟upin跟upout就是說隨時可以去申請跟電信公司申請的\n\n11\n00:03:52,904 --> 00:04:19,805\n好如果真的像您所說的我認為加強宣導應該很重要但是至於另外一個部分就是廣告代理公司的部分或者是其他廣告代理商的部分那個是另外一個議題我覺得比較困擾但是我還是要提醒NCC我們到底可不可以舉一些例子來幫我們說明就一般民眾的角度來說什麼樣的簡訊有可能是三大電信那邊發出來的而什麼樣的簡訊比較像是廣告代理公司發出來的您可不可以幫我們做\n\n12\n00:04:20,566 --> 00:04:41,981\n科普性的說明讓一般消費者知道我今天如果收到一個簡訊不管它是政治類的非政治類的我要怎麼判斷它是來自三大電信公司的議題或者是來自所謂廣告代理公司的問題是從技術面來看民眾所有的簡訊都是電信公司發的但是它只是都是透明化的一個傳送就是跟電信管理法第八條一樣\n\n13\n00:04:42,441 --> 00:04:58,443\n是那源頭端對發送的人通常都不會是三大電信公司除非是三大電信公司自己的促銷方案對例如說哪一家公司有什麼促銷方案這個可能是三大電信公司用所謂內部客戶的資料去發這個簡訊但是你的\n\n14\n00:04:58,963 --> 00:05:26,557\n所以如同您的意思是說大部分的廣告簡訊或者是我們今天要談的這所謂政治類的簡訊極有可能比較多大部分應該是所謂廣告代理公司啊行銷公司啊公安公司他們不知道什麼情況下拿到了我們每一個人的個資然後透過他們的透過三大電信的這個發送的管道發送出去比較像是這樣對大部分情況是這樣好但因為這又不是你們業管的嘛對不對對那源頭端他資料收集是他要自己要負責任他有違反應該是相關主管機關來處理\n\n15\n00:05:27,557 --> 00:05:48,344\n好但是如果是這樣我覺得回到所謂如果有三大電信這一端所出去的我覺得就是要再次拜託NCC可以再加強宣導對於一般使用者來說我確實是可以直接去要求這些電信公司不可以用我的資料然後或者是說我不想收到所謂LBS簡訊這個是我們可以再次加強宣導跟推廣的對不對\n\n16\n00:05:49,124 --> 00:05:52,646\n這個部分我們希望看到你們更清楚的廣告文宣我不過很確定一下你們那個廣告文宣費有沒有被刪\n\n17\n00:06:15,155 --> 00:06:37,601\n我們這一塊的費用有些是在基金那邊目前還可以那我們希望看到更多你們對於一般民眾加強推廣然後我覺得也可以減少大家收到相關簡訊的疑慮好不好我認為增加很多社會溝通除了政治議題上增加很多社會溝通絕對是必要的好嗎好謝謝那接下來我要回到兒少議題我要拜託警政署謝謝那NCT這邊請回謝謝\n\n18\n00:06:43,305 --> 00:07:03,217\n好我們關心政治議題關心政治困境我們也要關心家長所擔心的在整個週末所有的社群家長社群都炸鍋了就是在台北新北高雄好像連桃園也有有所謂中國直播主在國小外面拍攝所引起的爭議跟擔心我不知道警政署這邊有沒有講過相關進度跟資料\n\n19\n00:07:07,620 --> 00:07:21,331\n目前我們掌握到就是高雄有一件就是對於這個直播組的一個相關拍攝行為那經過查證這一件事沒有牽涉到拍攝到學童的這種狀況所以這件事沒有呈案的\n\n20\n00:07:22,071 --> 00:07:46,694\n那第二案就是在台北市所以等一下你們成案的標準叫做有沒有拍攝到小孩的臉這樣嗎對對對就是說這個案就是所以他整個直播的片段你們全部都看完一個小孩的臉都沒有拍到這個案就是他沒有對於這樣的一個行為正過調查之後沒有涉嫌違法拜託警政署我們講白話文給一般民眾聽啦就是這一件我剛剛家長在意的是小孩的臉有沒有被拍到然後被不當的應用\n\n21\n00:07:48,055 --> 00:08:00,242\n這一件事沒有做被不當的運用那第二件事有第二件事發生在台北市的這一間的一個民生國小門口嗎對是民生國小這一間是有拍攝到這些血統的這些相關的這個樣態那這個樣態裡面是有違反有違反這個兒童及少年這個權利保護法所以兒少權法兒少法\n\n22\n00:08:10,587 --> 00:08:39,230\n也有違反這個個資保護法也有違反這些刑法的妨礙秘密所以這個案子我們這個案子我們依這個三個法例來做移送來移送法判好所以你們這邊已經有在進行了有進行了移送法判好太好了那高雄呢這一件這一件經過調查的結果是沒有高雄新北那新北呢目前新北我沒有還沒有接到這個訊息還沒有接到訊息可是網路上那個警戒署你看一下連我在網路上都找得到\n\n23\n00:08:40,595 --> 00:08:56,065\n那是去年11月的這個事情這個部分應該這個案也是沒有違法的事證也是沒有違法這個是你們後續很快的幫忙做出讓家長安心的動作非常謝謝你們的回應我再次跟您強調你們會以違反兒少權法違反個資法違反妨害秘密做相關的處理對嗎好那我們後續如何防備這個\n\n24\n00:09:04,551 --> 00:09:26,991\n那對於這個部分因為學校的這個地方也是我們這個警察這個一個安全服務的這個地點我們會加長這些巡邏的這個密度那會加長這樣的一個跟學校的一個聯繫聯繫看有沒有這樣的一個情形所以他是地方派出所的派出所基層同仁要負責在門口巡嗎每天上學時間嗎應該都是會有應該會是會有但是我要幫\n\n25\n00:09:30,854 --> 00:09:55,361\n我要幫基層同仁就是上學跟下學放學放學放學放學的時候好那我們目前只會針對國小嗎國中高中應該最主要就是國小跟國中就是未成年所以我們可以這樣說嗎我們可以說當然基層同仁不可能天天到每一所學校門口去站崗但是我們可不可以對社會公開呼籲假設有家長\n\n26\n00:09:56,081 --> 00:10:18,480\n或者是路人或者是老師發現在孩子們上學跟放學的時候有奇怪的人在門口做出奇怪的直播我們其實可以打電話到派出所或報警請求相關協助進行現場的蒐證跟處理我可以這樣公開呼籲嗎?可以明天好那就請您幫我們重述一遍讓我們的家長因為家長社群在週末真的是炸鍋了\n\n27\n00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:45,958\n如果說有這些非法收集這些拍攝的行為絕等的行為請立即打電話到110或小區的拍手來報案我們會到場來做處理好那其實大家也會擔心國安的議題但因為時間有限我今天國安就沒有辦法再多說但是至少警政署在這一塊做出非常明快的處理我們也謝謝警政署在這邊然後也謝謝基層同仁非常非常辛苦好謝謝\n\n28\n00:10:49,682 --> 00:10:50,724\n各自處謝謝那這邊請回請在署請回謝謝\n\n29\n00:11:00,233 --> 00:11:25,218\n好您好各自處這邊我們跟你討論一下其實我們之前就因為單項教練證的問題跟你們開過會也跟法務部開過會但是因為它牽扯到各自的問題所以我今天比較多時間想要跟您討論相關法律見解目前因為運動部在九月即將掛牌而未來台灣會有一個所謂全民運動署也就是更多校園的運動它可能會延伸到社區裡面\n\n30\n00:11:26,178 --> 00:11:49,427\n非常多孩子们练习运动的场域也会从校园的体育队体育班到社区里面的社区俱乐部所以我们可以想见未来会有更多的教练进到社区里面为孩子提供服务跟教学但同时我们也担心可能很多非法的样态就会从学校扩散到社区里面我们提早做出预防因为确实过去有非常多的案例\n\n31\n00:11:49,907 --> 00:12:07,791\n在相關的討論當中我們跟你們討論就是來看下一張體育署在相關的查詢網站當中如果我今天想要去查陳培瑜這個足球教練他過往有沒有對小孩做出不法的事情不管是性侵體罰不當對待之類等等的犯罪行為體育署的網站是說這個樣態他其實是查不到的他說要請家長回到單項協會如果我去單項協會的網站上看例如說陳培瑜是曾經是足球教練\n\n32\n00:12:16,773 --> 00:12:39,726\n如果陳培宇有了犯罪行為陳培宇的名字就會從足球單項協會的教練證名字被下架我們認為這樣是消極的我們辦公室主張一直以來我們也跟非常多兒權團體主張教練如果他犯了相關尤其是對於小孩不當對待這些罪罰而且終局判決已經決定了他應該名字要被留在\n\n33\n00:12:41,466 --> 00:13:06,954\n單項協會或者是體育署的網站上讓家長知道這個人他不是只有被下架他曾經做過對孩子們傷害的行為當時體育署的說法說這有個資的問題所以我們就跟個資處這邊開了會你們的法律見解告訴我們在個資保護法16條第二款裡面增進公共利益的部分我們就可以主張使用這樣的資料所以我們看到今年高雄市政府非常有guts\n\n34\n00:13:07,634 --> 00:13:24,600\n他們收到了體育署的公文在2024年7月16號他們就公告了非常多對孩子有不當對待人的名字而且是哪一項教練然後他的全名全文公告出來我認為這個是非常積極的對社區運動對於家長對於孩子的保護但是未來我不知道我們可不可以繼續主張我們認為像高雄市政府這樣做才是對的\n\n35\n00:13:32,623 --> 00:13:58,042\n還是要回到我的投影片的左手邊體育署認為基於保護這些教練的個資他們的這個樣態不可以被公告我想要聽聽看你們的法律見解委員就是我們先前幾次委員多次開這個協調會我們表達的意見就是說因為他是一個政府資訊那因為依照我們目前的這個司法實務見解就是說政府資訊裡面他雖然含有個人資料\n\n36\n00:13:58,422 --> 00:14:18,755\n那因為它是一個政府資訊公開法有一個明文規定所以會依照就是個資法十六條第一款它是屬於法律明文規定的情況那所以它所有的這個包含它的公開提供或是它的限制都會回到政府資訊公開法相關的規定那因為政資法的十八條的第一項第六款\n\n37\n00:14:19,195 --> 00:14:46,720\n他其實針對說如果有政府資訊的公開或提供有侵害個人隱私的話應限制公開或不予提供但是對公益有必要的話他還是可以去對外提供那至於對公益有必要跟這個個人隱私之間他到底這個公益跟私益的這個權衡這是要由這個政府資訊的保有機關也就是教育部體育署這邊他可以去做個案的權衡就是他去權衡這個公益跟私益那還是有這樣的一個\n\n38\n00:14:47,800 --> 00:15:14,920\n機制可以去做一個公開好所以聽起來其實他並不是只能指向某一端去解釋這件事情看起來他必須從個案來看去做權衡那聽起來我覺得體育署也好或者是各自處這邊有不同的法律見解不過我想我今天之所以公開質詢是希望我們辦公室後續在這一題我們會積極推進到時候也要拜託各自處這邊持續提供給我們法律見解跟意見然後讓我們再跟體育署溝通或者是到時候可能也會有法務部的角色\n\n39\n00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:30,312\n協助我們在保護兒少這一塊我們可以做得更積極如同高雄市政府所做出那個公文這樣好嗎是好謝謝主席謝謝各自處謝謝主席跟我想找朋友的話好謝謝中華電信有來對不對好拜託一下好這個是公益的事情謝謝\n\n40\n00:15:32,113 --> 00:15:58,468\n主席我問的都很公益謝謝主席感謝中華電信在去年前任董事長有喊出要經費加碼4成我想只是要跟您確定一下今年換了董總之後對女藍的支持還是會繼續嗎是因為我現在服務金門跟馬祖其實過往我們所謂的城鄉回饋到社區裡面去我們希望後續有更多機會WSB打完之後後續有公益列車規劃可以到更多偏鄉服務更多的孩子好不好\n\n41\n00:15:59,230 --> 00:16:00,977\n好我們一起來努力促成謝謝中華電影謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8305\t13179\t好謝謝主席那我想先請NCC謝謝麻煩NCC\n18317\t44585\t好 謝謝NCC我想今天的這個題目我覺得要先幫人民定義一件事情因為這個相關的資料我們可以看到在相關的新聞中電信三雄犧牲否認洩露個資據我看相關的新聞報導事實上相關的應用其實在3G的年代三大業縣是不是就接受NCC的監督認為相關的業務是不得已在電信公司裡面進行的我想要請您先說明一下\n45305\t60682\t是的 因為電信業者本來就是NCE所下管的業者那我們都在各自法的法尊上我們也有依據各自法27條定有安危辦法來請他們來落實這些各自維護相關事項\n61283\t77855\t好 所以截至目前為止 這還是你們的轄管業務內容 對嗎所以如果他們真的有做出疑似洩露個資的行為其實NCC你們會第一時間去進行調查包含主席今天排的這個案子其實當時你們已經進行調查我們看到相關業務報告 對嗎對 已經進行調查5月3號批落資料官5月5號 5月9號都兩次來找他們來做行政調查那預計什麼時候會公布相關調查報告\n87467\t111459\t我們也把相關的資料函送給相關機關做是否有違反各自的一些請他們處處簡單來講就是說這個簡訊的發送的流程裡頭最源頭端的簡訊代發業者的企客然後簡訊代發業者然後再來三大電信公司然後再達一般用戶那NCG能夠管的範圍是針對三大電信這一塊我們做行政調查\n112099\t126238\t那另外代發業者跟代發業者企客那是有相關主管機關來處理因為他一個是資訊服務業者另外一個是行銷公司那個不在NCC的作用法能夠守管家範圍內好 謝謝您說得非常的清楚\n127419\t155309\t三大電信歸NCC管理人們已經做了相關調查可是所謂代發業者或是簡訊代理公司或是說廣告行銷商他們的相關業務就不歸你們管轄所以我們可不可以定義這一次也就是主席特地排案這個事件它比較接近哪一個樣態比較接近是廣告代理商的議題還是是在三大電信這邊請您再次的說明就我們完整今天調查的結果它的問題應該是出現在最上游端或者最上游端\n156510\t174950\t簡訊代發業的企業用戶那邊他們為什麼會有這些個資資料是那一塊的部分好 那這一塊其實就是國人最擔心的疑慮也就是說我們可能在非常多地方消費我們都會留下所謂會員資料或者是像我自己的小孩他可能他的學校資料就曾經被一些補習班拿去用\n175310\t199737\t其實過往到底在民間的這些所謂商業服務公司如何使用我們每一個人的個資其實樣態是不清楚的可是確實如果收到相關的簡訊是會讓人擔心的那剛剛王逸川委員其實也有提醒到這一塊我們往下看下一張我可不可以請NCC跟我們說明到底我們身為一般消費者我就是一個不管是哪一個電信公司的門號使用者消費者我有沒有拒絕像這樣簡訊的權利有 這個\n202998\t232264\t一般民眾他如果要做電信公司提供LBS服務他必須要電信公司要問他說你同不同意我提供你LBS服務他同意的話他才會提供這個服務好那我們有沒有在過往的相關業務當中提醒民眾我們在申辦電信門號或者是當我電信門號已經使用超過一段時間我認為這個LBS的訊息確實讓我感到困擾的時候我可以做後續的主張就是如同您剛說的有這個而且他能隨時跟up in跟up out就是說隨時可以去申請跟電信公司申請的\n232904\t259805\t好如果真的像您所說的我認為加強宣導應該很重要但是至於另外一個部分就是廣告代理公司的部分或者是其他廣告代理商的部分那個是另外一個議題我覺得比較困擾但是我還是要提醒NCC我們到底可不可以舉一些例子來幫我們說明就一般民眾的角度來說什麼樣的簡訊有可能是三大電信那邊發出來的而什麼樣的簡訊比較像是廣告代理公司發出來的您可不可以幫我們做\n260566\t281981\t科普性的說明讓一般消費者知道我今天如果收到一個簡訊不管它是政治類的非政治類的我要怎麼判斷它是來自三大電信公司的議題或者是來自所謂廣告代理公司的問題是從技術面來看民眾所有的簡訊都是電信公司發的但是它只是都是透明化的一個傳送就是跟電信管理法第八條一樣\n282441\t298443\t是那源頭端對發送的人通常都不會是三大電信公司除非是三大電信公司自己的促銷方案對例如說哪一家公司有什麼促銷方案這個可能是三大電信公司用所謂內部客戶的資料去發這個簡訊但是你的\n298963\t326557\t所以如同您的意思是說大部分的廣告簡訊或者是我們今天要談的這所謂政治類的簡訊極有可能比較多大部分應該是所謂廣告代理公司啊行銷公司啊公安公司他們不知道什麼情況下拿到了我們每一個人的個資然後透過他們的透過三大電信的這個發送的管道發送出去比較像是這樣對大部分情況是這樣好但因為這又不是你們業管的嘛對不對對那源頭端他資料收集是他要自己要負責任他有違反應該是相關主管機關來處理\n327557\t348344\t好但是如果是這樣我覺得回到所謂如果有三大電信這一端所出去的我覺得就是要再次拜託NCC可以再加強宣導對於一般使用者來說我確實是可以直接去要求這些電信公司不可以用我的資料然後或者是說我不想收到所謂LBS簡訊這個是我們可以再次加強宣導跟推廣的對不對\n349124\t352646\t這個部分我們希望看到你們更清楚的廣告文宣我不過很確定一下你們那個廣告文宣費有沒有被刪\n375155\t397601\t我們這一塊的費用有些是在基金那邊目前還可以那我們希望看到更多你們對於一般民眾加強推廣然後我覺得也可以減少大家收到相關簡訊的疑慮好不好我認為增加很多社會溝通除了政治議題上增加很多社會溝通絕對是必要的好嗎好 謝謝那接下來我要回到兒少議題我要拜託警政署 謝謝那NCT這邊請回 謝謝\n403305\t423217\t好 我們關心政治議題 關心政治困境我們也要關心家長所擔心的在整個週末 所有的社群 家長社群都炸鍋了就是在台北 新北 高雄 好像連桃園也有有所謂中國直播主在國小外面拍攝所引起的爭議跟擔心我不知道警政署這邊有沒有講過相關進度跟資料\n427620\t441331\t目前我們掌握到就是高雄有一件就是對於這個直播組的一個相關拍攝行為那經過查證這一件事沒有牽涉到拍攝到學童的這種狀況所以這件事沒有呈案的\n442071\t466694\t那第二案就是在台北市所以等一下你們成案的標準叫做有沒有拍攝到小孩的臉這樣嗎對對對就是說這個案就是所以他整個直播的片段你們全部都看完一個小孩的臉都沒有拍到這個案就是他沒有對於這樣的一個行為正過調查之後沒有涉嫌違法拜託警政署我們講白話文給一般民眾聽啦就是這一件我剛剛家長在意的是小孩的臉有沒有被拍到然後被不當的應用\n468055\t480242\t這一件事沒有做被不當的運用那第二件事有第二件事發生在台北市的這一間的一個民生國小門口嗎對 是民生國小這一間是有拍攝到這些血統的這些相關的這個樣態那這個樣態裡面是有違反有違反這個兒童及少年這個權利保護法所以兒少權法兒少法\n490587\t519230\t也有違反這個個資保護法也有違反這些刑法的妨礙秘密所以這個案子我們這個案子我們依這個三個法例來做移送來移送法判好所以你們這邊已經有在進行了有進行了移送法判好太好了那高雄呢這一件這一件經過調查的結果是沒有高雄新北那新北呢目前新北我沒有還沒有接到這個訊息還沒有接到訊息可是網路上那個警戒署你看一下連我在網路上都找得到\n520595\t536065\t那是去年11月的這個事情這個部分應該這個案也是沒有違法的事證也是沒有違法這個是你們後續很快的幫忙做出讓家長安心的動作非常謝謝你們的回應我再次跟您強調你們會以違反兒少權法違反個資法違反妨害秘密做相關的處理對嗎好那我們後續如何防備這個\n544551\t566991\t那對於這個部分因為學校的這個地方也是我們這個警察這個一個安全服務的這個地點我們會加長這些巡邏的這個密度那會加長這樣的一個跟學校的一個聯繫聯繫看有沒有這樣的一個情形所以他是地方派出所的派出所基層同仁要負責在門口巡嗎每天上學時間嗎應該都是會有應該會是會有但是我要幫\n570854\t595361\t我要幫基層同仁就是上學跟下學放學放學放學放學的時候好那我們目前只會針對國小嗎國中高中應該最主要就是國小跟國中就是未成年所以我們可以這樣說嗎我們可以說當然基層同仁不可能天天到每一所學校門口去站崗但是我們可不可以對社會公開呼籲假設有家長\n596081\t618480\t或者是路人 或者是老師發現在孩子們上學跟放學的時候有奇怪的人在門口做出奇怪的直播我們其實可以打電話到派出所或報警請求相關協助進行現場的蒐證跟處理我可以這樣公開呼籲嗎?可以 明天好 那就請您幫我們重述一遍讓我們的家長因為家長社群在週末真的是炸鍋了\n618920\t645958\t如果說有這些非法收集這些拍攝的行為絕等的行為請立即打電話到110或小區的拍手來報案我們會到場來做處理好 那其實大家也會擔心國安的議題但因為時間有限我今天國安就沒有辦法再多說但是至少警政署在這一塊做出非常明快的處理我們也謝謝警政署在這邊然後也謝謝基層同仁非常非常辛苦好 謝謝\n649682\t650724\t各自處 謝謝那這邊請回 請在署請回 謝謝\n660233\t685218\t好 您好 各自處這邊 我們跟你討論一下其實我們之前就因為單項教練證的問題跟你們開過會 也跟法務部開過會但是因為它牽扯到各自的問題所以我今天比較多時間想要跟您討論相關法律見解目前因為運動部在九月即將掛牌而未來台灣會有一個所謂全民運動署也就是更多校園的運動它可能會延伸到社區裡面\n686178\t709427\t非常多孩子们练习运动的场域也会从校园的体育队体育班到社区里面的社区俱乐部所以我们可以想见未来会有更多的教练进到社区里面为孩子提供服务跟教学但同时我们也担心可能很多非法的样态就会从学校扩散到社区里面我们提早做出预防因为确实过去有非常多的案例\n709907\t727791\t在相關的討論當中我們跟你們討論就是來看下一張體育署在相關的查詢網站當中如果我今天想要去查陳培瑜這個足球教練他過往有沒有對小孩做出不法的事情不管是性侵體罰不當對待之類等等的犯罪行為體育署的網站是說這個樣態他其實是查不到的他說要請家長回到單項協會如果我去單項協會的網站上看例如說陳培瑜是曾經是足球教練\n736773\t759726\t如果陳培宇有了犯罪行為陳培宇的名字就會從足球單項協會的教練證名字被下架我們認為這樣是消極的我們辦公室主張一直以來我們也跟非常多兒權團體主張教練如果他犯了相關尤其是對於小孩不當對待這些罪罰而且終局判決已經決定了他應該名字要被留在\n761466\t786954\t單項協會或者是體育署的網站上讓家長知道這個人他不是只有被下架他曾經做過對孩子們傷害的行為當時體育署的說法說這有個資的問題所以我們就跟個資處這邊開了會你們的法律見解告訴我們在個資保護法16條第二款裡面增進公共利益的部分我們就可以主張使用這樣的資料所以我們看到今年高雄市政府非常有 guts\n787634\t804600\t他們收到了體育署的公文在2024年7月16號他們就公告了非常多對孩子有不當對待人的名字而且是哪一項教練然後他的全名全文公告出來我認為這個是非常積極的對社區運動對於家長對於孩子的保護但是未來我不知道我們可不可以繼續主張我們認為像高雄市政府這樣做才是對的\n812623\t838042\t還是要回到我的投影片的左手邊體育署認為基於保護這些教練的個資他們的這個樣態不可以被公告我想要聽聽看你們的法律見解委員就是我們先前幾次委員多次開這個協調會我們表達的意見就是說因為他是一個政府資訊那因為依照我們目前的這個司法實務見解就是說政府資訊裡面他雖然含有個人資料\n838422\t858755\t那因為它是一個政府資訊公開法有一個明文規定所以會依照就是個資法十六條第一款它是屬於法律明文規定的情況那所以它所有的這個包含它的公開提供或是它的限制都會回到政府資訊公開法相關的規定那因為政資法的十八條的第一項第六款\n859195\t886720\t他其實針對說如果有政府資訊的公開或提供有侵害個人隱私的話應限制公開或不予提供但是對公益有必要的話他還是可以去對外提供那至於對公益有必要跟這個個人隱私之間他到底這個公益跟私益的這個權衡這是要由這個政府資訊的保有機關也就是教育部體育署這邊他可以去做個案的權衡就是他去權衡這個公益跟私益那還是有這樣的一個\n887800\t914920\t機制可以去做一個公開好所以聽起來其實他並不是只能指向某一端去解釋這件事情看起來他必須從個案來看去做權衡那聽起來我覺得體育署也好或者是各自處這邊有不同的法律見解不過我想我今天之所以公開質詢是希望我們辦公室後續在這一題我們會積極推進到時候也要拜託各自處這邊持續提供給我們法律見解跟意見然後讓我們再跟體育署溝通或者是到時候可能也會有法務部的角色\n915480\t930312\t協助我們在保護兒少這一塊我們可以做得更積極如同高雄市政府所做出那個公文這樣好嗎是好謝謝主席謝謝各自處謝謝主席跟我想找朋友的話好謝謝中華電信有來對不對好拜託一下好這個是公益的事情謝謝\n932113\t958468\t主席我問的都很公益謝謝主席感謝中華電信在去年前任董事長有喊出要經費加碼4成我想只是要跟您確定一下今年換了董總之後對女藍的支持還是會繼續嗎是因為我現在服務金門跟馬祖其實過往我們所謂的城鄉回饋到社區裡面去我們希望後續有更多機會WSB打完之後後續有公益列車規劃可以到更多偏鄉服務更多的孩子好不好\n959230\t960977\t好 我們一起來努力促成謝謝中華電影 謝謝主席 謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席那我想先請NCC謝謝麻煩NCC\n好 謝謝NCC我想今天的這個題目我覺得要先幫人民定義一件事情因為這個相關的資料我們可以看到在相關的新聞中電信三雄犧牲否認洩露個資據我看相關的新聞報導事實上相關的應用其實在3G的年代三大業縣是不是就接受NCC的監督認為相關的業務是不得已在電信公司裡面進行的我想要請您先說明一下\n是的 因為電信業者本來就是NCE所下管的業者那我們都在各自法的法尊上我們也有依據各自法27條定有安危辦法來請他們來落實這些各自維護相關事項\n好 所以截至目前為止 這還是你們的轄管業務內容 對嗎所以如果他們真的有做出疑似洩露個資的行為其實NCC你們會第一時間去進行調查包含主席今天排的這個案子其實當時你們已經進行調查我們看到相關業務報告 對嗎對 已經進行調查5月3號批落資料官5月5號 5月9號都兩次來找他們來做行政調查那預計什麼時候會公布相關調查報告\n我們也把相關的資料函送給相關機關做是否有違反各自的一些請他們處處簡單來講就是說這個簡訊的發送的流程裡頭最源頭端的簡訊代發業者的企客然後簡訊代發業者然後再來三大電信公司然後再達一般用戶那NCG能夠管的範圍是針對三大電信這一塊我們做行政調查\n那另外代發業者跟代發業者企客那是有相關主管機關來處理因為他一個是資訊服務業者另外一個是行銷公司那個不在NCC的作用法能夠守管家範圍內好 謝謝您說得非常的清楚\n三大電信歸NCC管理人們已經做了相關調查可是所謂代發業者或是簡訊代理公司或是說廣告行銷商他們的相關業務就不歸你們管轄所以我們可不可以定義這一次也就是主席特地排案這個事件它比較接近哪一個樣態比較接近是廣告代理商的議題還是是在三大電信這邊請您再次的說明就我們完整今天調查的結果它的問題應該是出現在最上游端或者最上游端\n簡訊代發業的企業用戶那邊他們為什麼會有這些個資資料是那一塊的部分好 那這一塊其實就是國人最擔心的疑慮也就是說我們可能在非常多地方消費我們都會留下所謂會員資料或者是像我自己的小孩他可能他的學校資料就曾經被一些補習班拿去用\n其實過往到底在民間的這些所謂商業服務公司如何使用我們每一個人的個資其實樣態是不清楚的可是確實如果收到相關的簡訊是會讓人擔心的那剛剛王逸川委員其實也有提醒到這一塊我們往下看下一張我可不可以請NCC跟我們說明到底我們身為一般消費者我就是一個不管是哪一個電信公司的門號使用者消費者我有沒有拒絕像這樣簡訊的權利有 這個\n一般民眾他如果要做電信公司提供LBS服務他必須要電信公司要問他說你同不同意我提供你LBS服務他同意的話他才會提供這個服務好那我們有沒有在過往的相關業務當中提醒民眾我們在申辦電信門號或者是當我電信門號已經使用超過一段時間我認為這個LBS的訊息確實讓我感到困擾的時候我可以做後續的主張就是如同您剛說的有這個而且他能隨時跟up in跟up out就是說隨時可以去申請跟電信公司申請的\n好如果真的像您所說的我認為加強宣導應該很重要但是至於另外一個部分就是廣告代理公司的部分或者是其他廣告代理商的部分那個是另外一個議題我覺得比較困擾但是我還是要提醒NCC我們到底可不可以舉一些例子來幫我們說明就一般民眾的角度來說什麼樣的簡訊有可能是三大電信那邊發出來的而什麼樣的簡訊比較像是廣告代理公司發出來的您可不可以幫我們做\n科普性的說明讓一般消費者知道我今天如果收到一個簡訊不管它是政治類的非政治類的我要怎麼判斷它是來自三大電信公司的議題或者是來自所謂廣告代理公司的問題是從技術面來看民眾所有的簡訊都是電信公司發的但是它只是都是透明化的一個傳送就是跟電信管理法第八條一樣\n是那源頭端對發送的人通常都不會是三大電信公司除非是三大電信公司自己的促銷方案對例如說哪一家公司有什麼促銷方案這個可能是三大電信公司用所謂內部客戶的資料去發這個簡訊但是你的\n所以如同您的意思是說大部分的廣告簡訊或者是我們今天要談的這所謂政治類的簡訊極有可能比較多大部分應該是所謂廣告代理公司啊行銷公司啊公安公司他們不知道什麼情況下拿到了我們每一個人的個資然後透過他們的透過三大電信的這個發送的管道發送出去比較像是這樣對大部分情況是這樣好但因為這又不是你們業管的嘛對不對對那源頭端他資料收集是他要自己要負責任他有違反應該是相關主管機關來處理\n好但是如果是這樣我覺得回到所謂如果有三大電信這一端所出去的我覺得就是要再次拜託NCC可以再加強宣導對於一般使用者來說我確實是可以直接去要求這些電信公司不可以用我的資料然後或者是說我不想收到所謂LBS簡訊這個是我們可以再次加強宣導跟推廣的對不對\n這個部分我們希望看到你們更清楚的廣告文宣我不過很確定一下你們那個廣告文宣費有沒有被刪\n我們這一塊的費用有些是在基金那邊目前還可以那我們希望看到更多你們對於一般民眾加強推廣然後我覺得也可以減少大家收到相關簡訊的疑慮好不好我認為增加很多社會溝通除了政治議題上增加很多社會溝通絕對是必要的好嗎好 謝謝那接下來我要回到兒少議題我要拜託警政署 謝謝那NCT這邊請回 謝謝\n好 我們關心政治議題 關心政治困境我們也要關心家長所擔心的在整個週末 所有的社群 家長社群都炸鍋了就是在台北 新北 高雄 好像連桃園也有有所謂中國直播主在國小外面拍攝所引起的爭議跟擔心我不知道警政署這邊有沒有講過相關進度跟資料\n目前我們掌握到就是高雄有一件就是對於這個直播組的一個相關拍攝行為那經過查證這一件事沒有牽涉到拍攝到學童的這種狀況所以這件事沒有呈案的\n那第二案就是在台北市所以等一下你們成案的標準叫做有沒有拍攝到小孩的臉這樣嗎對對對就是說這個案就是所以他整個直播的片段你們全部都看完一個小孩的臉都沒有拍到這個案就是他沒有對於這樣的一個行為正過調查之後沒有涉嫌違法拜託警政署我們講白話文給一般民眾聽啦就是這一件我剛剛家長在意的是小孩的臉有沒有被拍到然後被不當的應用\n這一件事沒有做被不當的運用那第二件事有第二件事發生在台北市的這一間的一個民生國小門口嗎對 是民生國小這一間是有拍攝到這些血統的這些相關的這個樣態那這個樣態裡面是有違反有違反這個兒童及少年這個權利保護法所以兒少權法兒少法\n也有違反這個個資保護法也有違反這些刑法的妨礙秘密所以這個案子我們這個案子我們依這個三個法例來做移送來移送法判好所以你們這邊已經有在進行了有進行了移送法判好太好了那高雄呢這一件這一件經過調查的結果是沒有高雄新北那新北呢目前新北我沒有還沒有接到這個訊息還沒有接到訊息可是網路上那個警戒署你看一下連我在網路上都找得到\n那是去年11月的這個事情這個部分應該這個案也是沒有違法的事證也是沒有違法這個是你們後續很快的幫忙做出讓家長安心的動作非常謝謝你們的回應我再次跟您強調你們會以違反兒少權法違反個資法違反妨害秘密做相關的處理對嗎好那我們後續如何防備這個\n那對於這個部分因為學校的這個地方也是我們這個警察這個一個安全服務的這個地點我們會加長這些巡邏的這個密度那會加長這樣的一個跟學校的一個聯繫聯繫看有沒有這樣的一個情形所以他是地方派出所的派出所基層同仁要負責在門口巡嗎每天上學時間嗎應該都是會有應該會是會有但是我要幫\n我要幫基層同仁就是上學跟下學放學放學放學放學的時候好那我們目前只會針對國小嗎國中高中應該最主要就是國小跟國中就是未成年所以我們可以這樣說嗎我們可以說當然基層同仁不可能天天到每一所學校門口去站崗但是我們可不可以對社會公開呼籲假設有家長\n或者是路人 或者是老師發現在孩子們上學跟放學的時候有奇怪的人在門口做出奇怪的直播我們其實可以打電話到派出所或報警請求相關協助進行現場的蒐證跟處理我可以這樣公開呼籲嗎?可以 明天好 那就請您幫我們重述一遍讓我們的家長因為家長社群在週末真的是炸鍋了\n如果說有這些非法收集這些拍攝的行為絕等的行為請立即打電話到110或小區的拍手來報案我們會到場來做處理好 那其實大家也會擔心國安的議題但因為時間有限我今天國安就沒有辦法再多說但是至少警政署在這一塊做出非常明快的處理我們也謝謝警政署在這邊然後也謝謝基層同仁非常非常辛苦好 謝謝\n各自處 謝謝那這邊請回 請在署請回 謝謝\n好 您好 各自處這邊 我們跟你討論一下其實我們之前就因為單項教練證的問題跟你們開過會 也跟法務部開過會但是因為它牽扯到各自的問題所以我今天比較多時間想要跟您討論相關法律見解目前因為運動部在九月即將掛牌而未來台灣會有一個所謂全民運動署也就是更多校園的運動它可能會延伸到社區裡面\n非常多孩子们练习运动的场域也会从校园的体育队体育班到社区里面的社区俱乐部所以我们可以想见未来会有更多的教练进到社区里面为孩子提供服务跟教学但同时我们也担心可能很多非法的样态就会从学校扩散到社区里面我们提早做出预防因为确实过去有非常多的案例\n在相關的討論當中我們跟你們討論就是來看下一張體育署在相關的查詢網站當中如果我今天想要去查陳培瑜這個足球教練他過往有沒有對小孩做出不法的事情不管是性侵體罰不當對待之類等等的犯罪行為體育署的網站是說這個樣態他其實是查不到的他說要請家長回到單項協會如果我去單項協會的網站上看例如說陳培瑜是曾經是足球教練\n如果陳培宇有了犯罪行為陳培宇的名字就會從足球單項協會的教練證名字被下架我們認為這樣是消極的我們辦公室主張一直以來我們也跟非常多兒權團體主張教練如果他犯了相關尤其是對於小孩不當對待這些罪罰而且終局判決已經決定了他應該名字要被留在\n單項協會或者是體育署的網站上讓家長知道這個人他不是只有被下架他曾經做過對孩子們傷害的行為當時體育署的說法說這有個資的問題所以我們就跟個資處這邊開了會你們的法律見解告訴我們在個資保護法16條第二款裡面增進公共利益的部分我們就可以主張使用這樣的資料所以我們看到今年高雄市政府非常有 guts\n他們收到了體育署的公文在2024年7月16號他們就公告了非常多對孩子有不當對待人的名字而且是哪一項教練然後他的全名全文公告出來我認為這個是非常積極的對社區運動對於家長對於孩子的保護但是未來我不知道我們可不可以繼續主張我們認為像高雄市政府這樣做才是對的\n還是要回到我的投影片的左手邊體育署認為基於保護這些教練的個資他們的這個樣態不可以被公告我想要聽聽看你們的法律見解委員就是我們先前幾次委員多次開這個協調會我們表達的意見就是說因為他是一個政府資訊那因為依照我們目前的這個司法實務見解就是說政府資訊裡面他雖然含有個人資料\n那因為它是一個政府資訊公開法有一個明文規定所以會依照就是個資法十六條第一款它是屬於法律明文規定的情況那所以它所有的這個包含它的公開提供或是它的限制都會回到政府資訊公開法相關的規定那因為政資法的十八條的第一項第六款\n他其實針對說如果有政府資訊的公開或提供有侵害個人隱私的話應限制公開或不予提供但是對公益有必要的話他還是可以去對外提供那至於對公益有必要跟這個個人隱私之間他到底這個公益跟私益的這個權衡這是要由這個政府資訊的保有機關也就是教育部體育署這邊他可以去做個案的權衡就是他去權衡這個公益跟私益那還是有這樣的一個\n機制可以去做一個公開好所以聽起來其實他並不是只能指向某一端去解釋這件事情看起來他必須從個案來看去做權衡那聽起來我覺得體育署也好或者是各自處這邊有不同的法律見解不過我想我今天之所以公開質詢是希望我們辦公室後續在這一題我們會積極推進到時候也要拜託各自處這邊持續提供給我們法律見解跟意見然後讓我們再跟體育署溝通或者是到時候可能也會有法務部的角色\n協助我們在保護兒少這一塊我們可以做得更積極如同高雄市政府所做出那個公文這樣好嗎是好謝謝主席謝謝各自處謝謝主席跟我想找朋友的話好謝謝中華電信有來對不對好拜託一下好這個是公益的事情謝謝\n主席我問的都很公益謝謝主席感謝中華電信在去年前任董事長有喊出要經費加碼4成我想只是要跟您確定一下今年換了董總之後對女藍的支持還是會繼續嗎是因為我現在服務金門跟馬祖其實過往我們所謂的城鄉回饋到社區裡面去我們希望後續有更多機會WSB打完之後後續有公益列車規劃可以到更多偏鄉服務更多的孩子好不好\n好 我們一起來努力促成謝謝中華電影 謝謝主席 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.305 --> 00:13.179\n好謝謝主席那我想先請NCC謝謝麻煩NCC\n\n00:18.317 --> 00:44.585\n好謝謝NCC我想今天的這個題目我覺得要先幫人民定義一件事情因為這個相關的資料我們可以看到在相關的新聞中電信三雄犧牲否認洩露個資據我看相關的新聞報導事實上相關的應用其實在3G的年代三大業縣是不是就接受NCC的監督認為相關的業務是不得已在電信公司裡面進行的我想要請您先說明一下\n\n00:45.305 --> 01:00.682\n是的因為電信業者本來就是NCE所下管的業者那我們都在各自法的法尊上我們也有依據各自法27條定有安危辦法來請他們來落實這些各自維護相關事項\n\n01:01.283 --> 01:17.855\n好所以截至目前為止這還是你們的轄管業務內容對嗎所以如果他們真的有做出疑似洩露個資的行為其實NCC你們會第一時間去進行調查包含主席今天排的這個案子其實當時你們已經進行調查我們看到相關業務報告對嗎對已經進行調查5月3號批落資料官5月5號5月9號都兩次來找他們來做行政調查那預計什麼時候會公布相關調查報告\n\n01:27.467 --> 01:51.459\n我們也把相關的資料函送給相關機關做是否有違反各自的一些請他們處處簡單來講就是說這個簡訊的發送的流程裡頭最源頭端的簡訊代發業者的企客然後簡訊代發業者然後再來三大電信公司然後再達一般用戶那NCG能夠管的範圍是針對三大電信這一塊我們做行政調查\n\n01:52.099 --> 02:06.238\n那另外代發業者跟代發業者企客那是有相關主管機關來處理因為他一個是資訊服務業者另外一個是行銷公司那個不在NCC的作用法能夠守管家範圍內好謝謝您說得非常的清楚\n\n02:07.419 --> 02:35.309\n三大電信歸NCC管理人們已經做了相關調查可是所謂代發業者或是簡訊代理公司或是說廣告行銷商他們的相關業務就不歸你們管轄所以我們可不可以定義這一次也就是主席特地排案這個事件它比較接近哪一個樣態比較接近是廣告代理商的議題還是是在三大電信這邊請您再次的說明就我們完整今天調查的結果它的問題應該是出現在最上游端或者最上游端\n\n02:36.510 --> 02:54.950\n簡訊代發業的企業用戶那邊他們為什麼會有這些個資資料是那一塊的部分好那這一塊其實就是國人最擔心的疑慮也就是說我們可能在非常多地方消費我們都會留下所謂會員資料或者是像我自己的小孩他可能他的學校資料就曾經被一些補習班拿去用\n\n02:55.310 --> 03:19.737\n其實過往到底在民間的這些所謂商業服務公司如何使用我們每一個人的個資其實樣態是不清楚的可是確實如果收到相關的簡訊是會讓人擔心的那剛剛王逸川委員其實也有提醒到這一塊我們往下看下一張我可不可以請NCC跟我們說明到底我們身為一般消費者我就是一個不管是哪一個電信公司的門號使用者消費者我有沒有拒絕像這樣簡訊的權利有這個\n\n03:22.998 --> 03:52.264\n一般民眾他如果要做電信公司提供LBS服務他必須要電信公司要問他說你同不同意我提供你LBS服務他同意的話他才會提供這個服務好那我們有沒有在過往的相關業務當中提醒民眾我們在申辦電信門號或者是當我電信門號已經使用超過一段時間我認為這個LBS的訊息確實讓我感到困擾的時候我可以做後續的主張就是如同您剛說的有這個而且他能隨時跟upin跟upout就是說隨時可以去申請跟電信公司申請的\n\n03:52.904 --> 04:19.805\n好如果真的像您所說的我認為加強宣導應該很重要但是至於另外一個部分就是廣告代理公司的部分或者是其他廣告代理商的部分那個是另外一個議題我覺得比較困擾但是我還是要提醒NCC我們到底可不可以舉一些例子來幫我們說明就一般民眾的角度來說什麼樣的簡訊有可能是三大電信那邊發出來的而什麼樣的簡訊比較像是廣告代理公司發出來的您可不可以幫我們做\n\n04:20.566 --> 04:41.981\n科普性的說明讓一般消費者知道我今天如果收到一個簡訊不管它是政治類的非政治類的我要怎麼判斷它是來自三大電信公司的議題或者是來自所謂廣告代理公司的問題是從技術面來看民眾所有的簡訊都是電信公司發的但是它只是都是透明化的一個傳送就是跟電信管理法第八條一樣\n\n04:42.441 --> 04:58.443\n是那源頭端對發送的人通常都不會是三大電信公司除非是三大電信公司自己的促銷方案對例如說哪一家公司有什麼促銷方案這個可能是三大電信公司用所謂內部客戶的資料去發這個簡訊但是你的\n\n04:58.963 --> 05:26.557\n所以如同您的意思是說大部分的廣告簡訊或者是我們今天要談的這所謂政治類的簡訊極有可能比較多大部分應該是所謂廣告代理公司啊行銷公司啊公安公司他們不知道什麼情況下拿到了我們每一個人的個資然後透過他們的透過三大電信的這個發送的管道發送出去比較像是這樣對大部分情況是這樣好但因為這又不是你們業管的嘛對不對對那源頭端他資料收集是他要自己要負責任他有違反應該是相關主管機關來處理\n\n05:27.557 --> 05:48.344\n好但是如果是這樣我覺得回到所謂如果有三大電信這一端所出去的我覺得就是要再次拜託NCC可以再加強宣導對於一般使用者來說我確實是可以直接去要求這些電信公司不可以用我的資料然後或者是說我不想收到所謂LBS簡訊這個是我們可以再次加強宣導跟推廣的對不對\n\n05:49.124 --> 05:52.646\n這個部分我們希望看到你們更清楚的廣告文宣我不過很確定一下你們那個廣告文宣費有沒有被刪\n\n06:15.155 --> 06:37.601\n我們這一塊的費用有些是在基金那邊目前還可以那我們希望看到更多你們對於一般民眾加強推廣然後我覺得也可以減少大家收到相關簡訊的疑慮好不好我認為增加很多社會溝通除了政治議題上增加很多社會溝通絕對是必要的好嗎好謝謝那接下來我要回到兒少議題我要拜託警政署謝謝那NCT這邊請回謝謝\n\n06:43.305 --> 07:03.217\n好我們關心政治議題關心政治困境我們也要關心家長所擔心的在整個週末所有的社群家長社群都炸鍋了就是在台北新北高雄好像連桃園也有有所謂中國直播主在國小外面拍攝所引起的爭議跟擔心我不知道警政署這邊有沒有講過相關進度跟資料\n\n07:07.620 --> 07:21.331\n目前我們掌握到就是高雄有一件就是對於這個直播組的一個相關拍攝行為那經過查證這一件事沒有牽涉到拍攝到學童的這種狀況所以這件事沒有呈案的\n\n07:22.071 --> 07:46.694\n那第二案就是在台北市所以等一下你們成案的標準叫做有沒有拍攝到小孩的臉這樣嗎對對對就是說這個案就是所以他整個直播的片段你們全部都看完一個小孩的臉都沒有拍到這個案就是他沒有對於這樣的一個行為正過調查之後沒有涉嫌違法拜託警政署我們講白話文給一般民眾聽啦就是這一件我剛剛家長在意的是小孩的臉有沒有被拍到然後被不當的應用\n\n07:48.055 --> 08:00.242\n這一件事沒有做被不當的運用那第二件事有第二件事發生在台北市的這一間的一個民生國小門口嗎對是民生國小這一間是有拍攝到這些血統的這些相關的這個樣態那這個樣態裡面是有違反有違反這個兒童及少年這個權利保護法所以兒少權法兒少法\n\n08:10.587 --> 08:39.230\n也有違反這個個資保護法也有違反這些刑法的妨礙秘密所以這個案子我們這個案子我們依這個三個法例來做移送來移送法判好所以你們這邊已經有在進行了有進行了移送法判好太好了那高雄呢這一件這一件經過調查的結果是沒有高雄新北那新北呢目前新北我沒有還沒有接到這個訊息還沒有接到訊息可是網路上那個警戒署你看一下連我在網路上都找得到\n\n08:40.595 --> 08:56.065\n那是去年11月的這個事情這個部分應該這個案也是沒有違法的事證也是沒有違法這個是你們後續很快的幫忙做出讓家長安心的動作非常謝謝你們的回應我再次跟您強調你們會以違反兒少權法違反個資法違反妨害秘密做相關的處理對嗎好那我們後續如何防備這個\n\n09:04.551 --> 09:26.991\n那對於這個部分因為學校的這個地方也是我們這個警察這個一個安全服務的這個地點我們會加長這些巡邏的這個密度那會加長這樣的一個跟學校的一個聯繫聯繫看有沒有這樣的一個情形所以他是地方派出所的派出所基層同仁要負責在門口巡嗎每天上學時間嗎應該都是會有應該會是會有但是我要幫\n\n09:30.854 --> 09:55.361\n我要幫基層同仁就是上學跟下學放學放學放學放學的時候好那我們目前只會針對國小嗎國中高中應該最主要就是國小跟國中就是未成年所以我們可以這樣說嗎我們可以說當然基層同仁不可能天天到每一所學校門口去站崗但是我們可不可以對社會公開呼籲假設有家長\n\n09:56.081 --> 10:18.480\n或者是路人或者是老師發現在孩子們上學跟放學的時候有奇怪的人在門口做出奇怪的直播我們其實可以打電話到派出所或報警請求相關協助進行現場的蒐證跟處理我可以這樣公開呼籲嗎?可以明天好那就請您幫我們重述一遍讓我們的家長因為家長社群在週末真的是炸鍋了\n\n10:18.920 --> 10:45.958\n如果說有這些非法收集這些拍攝的行為絕等的行為請立即打電話到110或小區的拍手來報案我們會到場來做處理好那其實大家也會擔心國安的議題但因為時間有限我今天國安就沒有辦法再多說但是至少警政署在這一塊做出非常明快的處理我們也謝謝警政署在這邊然後也謝謝基層同仁非常非常辛苦好謝謝\n\n10:49.682 --> 10:50.724\n各自處謝謝那這邊請回請在署請回謝謝\n\n11:00.233 --> 11:25.218\n好您好各自處這邊我們跟你討論一下其實我們之前就因為單項教練證的問題跟你們開過會也跟法務部開過會但是因為它牽扯到各自的問題所以我今天比較多時間想要跟您討論相關法律見解目前因為運動部在九月即將掛牌而未來台灣會有一個所謂全民運動署也就是更多校園的運動它可能會延伸到社區裡面\n\n11:26.178 --> 11:49.427\n非常多孩子们练习运动的场域也会从校园的体育队体育班到社区里面的社区俱乐部所以我们可以想见未来会有更多的教练进到社区里面为孩子提供服务跟教学但同时我们也担心可能很多非法的样态就会从学校扩散到社区里面我们提早做出预防因为确实过去有非常多的案例\n\n11:49.907 --> 12:07.791\n在相關的討論當中我們跟你們討論就是來看下一張體育署在相關的查詢網站當中如果我今天想要去查陳培瑜這個足球教練他過往有沒有對小孩做出不法的事情不管是性侵體罰不當對待之類等等的犯罪行為體育署的網站是說這個樣態他其實是查不到的他說要請家長回到單項協會如果我去單項協會的網站上看例如說陳培瑜是曾經是足球教練\n\n12:16.773 --> 12:39.726\n如果陳培宇有了犯罪行為陳培宇的名字就會從足球單項協會的教練證名字被下架我們認為這樣是消極的我們辦公室主張一直以來我們也跟非常多兒權團體主張教練如果他犯了相關尤其是對於小孩不當對待這些罪罰而且終局判決已經決定了他應該名字要被留在\n\n12:41.466 --> 13:06.954\n單項協會或者是體育署的網站上讓家長知道這個人他不是只有被下架他曾經做過對孩子們傷害的行為當時體育署的說法說這有個資的問題所以我們就跟個資處這邊開了會你們的法律見解告訴我們在個資保護法16條第二款裡面增進公共利益的部分我們就可以主張使用這樣的資料所以我們看到今年高雄市政府非常有guts\n\n13:07.634 --> 13:24.600\n他們收到了體育署的公文在2024年7月16號他們就公告了非常多對孩子有不當對待人的名字而且是哪一項教練然後他的全名全文公告出來我認為這個是非常積極的對社區運動對於家長對於孩子的保護但是未來我不知道我們可不可以繼續主張我們認為像高雄市政府這樣做才是對的\n\n13:32.623 --> 13:58.042\n還是要回到我的投影片的左手邊體育署認為基於保護這些教練的個資他們的這個樣態不可以被公告我想要聽聽看你們的法律見解委員就是我們先前幾次委員多次開這個協調會我們表達的意見就是說因為他是一個政府資訊那因為依照我們目前的這個司法實務見解就是說政府資訊裡面他雖然含有個人資料\n\n13:58.422 --> 14:18.755\n那因為它是一個政府資訊公開法有一個明文規定所以會依照就是個資法十六條第一款它是屬於法律明文規定的情況那所以它所有的這個包含它的公開提供或是它的限制都會回到政府資訊公開法相關的規定那因為政資法的十八條的第一項第六款\n\n14:19.195 --> 14:46.720\n他其實針對說如果有政府資訊的公開或提供有侵害個人隱私的話應限制公開或不予提供但是對公益有必要的話他還是可以去對外提供那至於對公益有必要跟這個個人隱私之間他到底這個公益跟私益的這個權衡這是要由這個政府資訊的保有機關也就是教育部體育署這邊他可以去做個案的權衡就是他去權衡這個公益跟私益那還是有這樣的一個\n\n14:47.800 --> 15:14.920\n機制可以去做一個公開好所以聽起來其實他並不是只能指向某一端去解釋這件事情看起來他必須從個案來看去做權衡那聽起來我覺得體育署也好或者是各自處這邊有不同的法律見解不過我想我今天之所以公開質詢是希望我們辦公室後續在這一題我們會積極推進到時候也要拜託各自處這邊持續提供給我們法律見解跟意見然後讓我們再跟體育署溝通或者是到時候可能也會有法務部的角色\n\n15:15.480 --> 15:30.312\n協助我們在保護兒少這一塊我們可以做得更積極如同高雄市政府所做出那個公文這樣好嗎是好謝謝主席謝謝各自處謝謝主席跟我想找朋友的話好謝謝中華電信有來對不對好拜託一下好這個是公益的事情謝謝\n\n15:32.113 --> 15:58.468\n主席我問的都很公益謝謝主席感謝中華電信在去年前任董事長有喊出要經費加碼4成我想只是要跟您確定一下今年換了董總之後對女藍的支持還是會繼續嗎是因為我現在服務金門跟馬祖其實過往我們所謂的城鄉回饋到社區裡面去我們希望後續有更多機會WSB打完之後後續有公益列車規劃可以到更多偏鄉服務更多的孩子好不好\n\n15:59.230 --> 16:00.977\n好我們一起來努力促成謝謝中華電影謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.305,"end":13.179,"text":"好謝謝主席那我想先請NCC謝謝麻煩NCC"},{"start":18.317,"end":44.585,"text":"好 謝謝NCC我想今天的這個題目我覺得要先幫人民定義一件事情因為這個相關的資料我們可以看到在相關的新聞中電信三雄犧牲否認洩露個資據我看相關的新聞報導事實上相關的應用其實在3G的年代三大業縣是不是就接受NCC的監督認為相關的業務是不得已在電信公司裡面進行的我想要請您先說明一下"},{"start":45.305,"end":60.682,"text":"是的 因為電信業者本來就是NCE所下管的業者那我們都在各自法的法尊上我們也有依據各自法27條定有安危辦法來請他們來落實這些各自維護相關事項"},{"start":61.283,"end":77.855,"text":"好 所以截至目前為止 這還是你們的轄管業務內容 對嗎所以如果他們真的有做出疑似洩露個資的行為其實NCC你們會第一時間去進行調查包含主席今天排的這個案子其實當時你們已經進行調查我們看到相關業務報告 對嗎對 已經進行調查5月3號批落資料官5月5號 5月9號都兩次來找他們來做行政調查那預計什麼時候會公布相關調查報告"},{"start":87.467,"end":111.459,"text":"我們也把相關的資料函送給相關機關做是否有違反各自的一些請他們處處簡單來講就是說這個簡訊的發送的流程裡頭最源頭端的簡訊代發業者的企客然後簡訊代發業者然後再來三大電信公司然後再達一般用戶那NCG能夠管的範圍是針對三大電信這一塊我們做行政調查"},{"start":112.099,"end":126.238,"text":"那另外代發業者跟代發業者企客那是有相關主管機關來處理因為他一個是資訊服務業者另外一個是行銷公司那個不在NCC的作用法能夠守管家範圍內好 謝謝您說得非常的清楚"},{"start":127.419,"end":155.309,"text":"三大電信歸NCC管理人們已經做了相關調查可是所謂代發業者或是簡訊代理公司或是說廣告行銷商他們的相關業務就不歸你們管轄所以我們可不可以定義這一次也就是主席特地排案這個事件它比較接近哪一個樣態比較接近是廣告代理商的議題還是是在三大電信這邊請您再次的說明就我們完整今天調查的結果它的問題應該是出現在最上游端或者最上游端"},{"start":156.51,"end":174.95,"text":"簡訊代發業的企業用戶那邊他們為什麼會有這些個資資料是那一塊的部分好 那這一塊其實就是國人最擔心的疑慮也就是說我們可能在非常多地方消費我們都會留下所謂會員資料或者是像我自己的小孩他可能他的學校資料就曾經被一些補習班拿去用"},{"start":175.31,"end":199.737,"text":"其實過往到底在民間的這些所謂商業服務公司如何使用我們每一個人的個資其實樣態是不清楚的可是確實如果收到相關的簡訊是會讓人擔心的那剛剛王逸川委員其實也有提醒到這一塊我們往下看下一張我可不可以請NCC跟我們說明到底我們身為一般消費者我就是一個不管是哪一個電信公司的門號使用者消費者我有沒有拒絕像這樣簡訊的權利有 這個"},{"start":202.998,"end":232.264,"text":"一般民眾他如果要做電信公司提供LBS服務他必須要電信公司要問他說你同不同意我提供你LBS服務他同意的話他才會提供這個服務好那我們有沒有在過往的相關業務當中提醒民眾我們在申辦電信門號或者是當我電信門號已經使用超過一段時間我認為這個LBS的訊息確實讓我感到困擾的時候我可以做後續的主張就是如同您剛說的有這個而且他能隨時跟up in跟up out就是說隨時可以去申請跟電信公司申請的"},{"start":232.904,"end":259.805,"text":"好如果真的像您所說的我認為加強宣導應該很重要但是至於另外一個部分就是廣告代理公司的部分或者是其他廣告代理商的部分那個是另外一個議題我覺得比較困擾但是我還是要提醒NCC我們到底可不可以舉一些例子來幫我們說明就一般民眾的角度來說什麼樣的簡訊有可能是三大電信那邊發出來的而什麼樣的簡訊比較像是廣告代理公司發出來的您可不可以幫我們做"},{"start":260.566,"end":281.981,"text":"科普性的說明讓一般消費者知道我今天如果收到一個簡訊不管它是政治類的非政治類的我要怎麼判斷它是來自三大電信公司的議題或者是來自所謂廣告代理公司的問題是從技術面來看民眾所有的簡訊都是電信公司發的但是它只是都是透明化的一個傳送就是跟電信管理法第八條一樣"},{"start":282.441,"end":298.443,"text":"是那源頭端對發送的人通常都不會是三大電信公司除非是三大電信公司自己的促銷方案對例如說哪一家公司有什麼促銷方案這個可能是三大電信公司用所謂內部客戶的資料去發這個簡訊但是你的"},{"start":298.963,"end":326.557,"text":"所以如同您的意思是說大部分的廣告簡訊或者是我們今天要談的這所謂政治類的簡訊極有可能比較多大部分應該是所謂廣告代理公司啊行銷公司啊公安公司他們不知道什麼情況下拿到了我們每一個人的個資然後透過他們的透過三大電信的這個發送的管道發送出去比較像是這樣對大部分情況是這樣好但因為這又不是你們業管的嘛對不對對那源頭端他資料收集是他要自己要負責任他有違反應該是相關主管機關來處理"},{"start":327.557,"end":348.344,"text":"好但是如果是這樣我覺得回到所謂如果有三大電信這一端所出去的我覺得就是要再次拜託NCC可以再加強宣導對於一般使用者來說我確實是可以直接去要求這些電信公司不可以用我的資料然後或者是說我不想收到所謂LBS簡訊這個是我們可以再次加強宣導跟推廣的對不對"},{"start":349.124,"end":352.646,"text":"這個部分我們希望看到你們更清楚的廣告文宣我不過很確定一下你們那個廣告文宣費有沒有被刪"},{"start":375.155,"end":397.601,"text":"我們這一塊的費用有些是在基金那邊目前還可以那我們希望看到更多你們對於一般民眾加強推廣然後我覺得也可以減少大家收到相關簡訊的疑慮好不好我認為增加很多社會溝通除了政治議題上增加很多社會溝通絕對是必要的好嗎好 謝謝那接下來我要回到兒少議題我要拜託警政署 謝謝那NCT這邊請回 謝謝"},{"start":403.305,"end":423.217,"text":"好 我們關心政治議題 關心政治困境我們也要關心家長所擔心的在整個週末 所有的社群 家長社群都炸鍋了就是在台北 新北 高雄 好像連桃園也有有所謂中國直播主在國小外面拍攝所引起的爭議跟擔心我不知道警政署這邊有沒有講過相關進度跟資料"},{"start":427.62,"end":441.331,"text":"目前我們掌握到就是高雄有一件就是對於這個直播組的一個相關拍攝行為那經過查證這一件事沒有牽涉到拍攝到學童的這種狀況所以這件事沒有呈案的"},{"start":442.071,"end":466.694,"text":"那第二案就是在台北市所以等一下你們成案的標準叫做有沒有拍攝到小孩的臉這樣嗎對對對就是說這個案就是所以他整個直播的片段你們全部都看完一個小孩的臉都沒有拍到這個案就是他沒有對於這樣的一個行為正過調查之後沒有涉嫌違法拜託警政署我們講白話文給一般民眾聽啦就是這一件我剛剛家長在意的是小孩的臉有沒有被拍到然後被不當的應用"},{"start":468.055,"end":480.242,"text":"這一件事沒有做被不當的運用那第二件事有第二件事發生在台北市的這一間的一個民生國小門口嗎對 是民生國小這一間是有拍攝到這些血統的這些相關的這個樣態那這個樣態裡面是有違反有違反這個兒童及少年這個權利保護法所以兒少權法兒少法"},{"start":490.587,"end":519.23,"text":"也有違反這個個資保護法也有違反這些刑法的妨礙秘密所以這個案子我們這個案子我們依這個三個法例來做移送來移送法判好所以你們這邊已經有在進行了有進行了移送法判好太好了那高雄呢這一件這一件經過調查的結果是沒有高雄新北那新北呢目前新北我沒有還沒有接到這個訊息還沒有接到訊息可是網路上那個警戒署你看一下連我在網路上都找得到"},{"start":520.595,"end":536.065,"text":"那是去年11月的這個事情這個部分應該這個案也是沒有違法的事證也是沒有違法這個是你們後續很快的幫忙做出讓家長安心的動作非常謝謝你們的回應我再次跟您強調你們會以違反兒少權法違反個資法違反妨害秘密做相關的處理對嗎好那我們後續如何防備這個"},{"start":544.551,"end":566.991,"text":"那對於這個部分因為學校的這個地方也是我們這個警察這個一個安全服務的這個地點我們會加長這些巡邏的這個密度那會加長這樣的一個跟學校的一個聯繫聯繫看有沒有這樣的一個情形所以他是地方派出所的派出所基層同仁要負責在門口巡嗎每天上學時間嗎應該都是會有應該會是會有但是我要幫"},{"start":570.854,"end":595.361,"text":"我要幫基層同仁就是上學跟下學放學放學放學放學的時候好那我們目前只會針對國小嗎國中高中應該最主要就是國小跟國中就是未成年所以我們可以這樣說嗎我們可以說當然基層同仁不可能天天到每一所學校門口去站崗但是我們可不可以對社會公開呼籲假設有家長"},{"start":596.081,"end":618.48,"text":"或者是路人 或者是老師發現在孩子們上學跟放學的時候有奇怪的人在門口做出奇怪的直播我們其實可以打電話到派出所或報警請求相關協助進行現場的蒐證跟處理我可以這樣公開呼籲嗎?可以 明天好 那就請您幫我們重述一遍讓我們的家長因為家長社群在週末真的是炸鍋了"},{"start":618.92,"end":645.958,"text":"如果說有這些非法收集這些拍攝的行為絕等的行為請立即打電話到110或小區的拍手來報案我們會到場來做處理好 那其實大家也會擔心國安的議題但因為時間有限我今天國安就沒有辦法再多說但是至少警政署在這一塊做出非常明快的處理我們也謝謝警政署在這邊然後也謝謝基層同仁非常非常辛苦好 謝謝"},{"start":649.682,"end":650.724,"text":"各自處 謝謝那這邊請回 請在署請回 謝謝"},{"start":660.233,"end":685.218,"text":"好 您好 各自處這邊 我們跟你討論一下其實我們之前就因為單項教練證的問題跟你們開過會 也跟法務部開過會但是因為它牽扯到各自的問題所以我今天比較多時間想要跟您討論相關法律見解目前因為運動部在九月即將掛牌而未來台灣會有一個所謂全民運動署也就是更多校園的運動它可能會延伸到社區裡面"},{"start":686.178,"end":709.427,"text":"非常多孩子们练习运动的场域也会从校园的体育队体育班到社区里面的社区俱乐部所以我们可以想见未来会有更多的教练进到社区里面为孩子提供服务跟教学但同时我们也担心可能很多非法的样态就会从学校扩散到社区里面我们提早做出预防因为确实过去有非常多的案例"},{"start":709.907,"end":727.791,"text":"在相關的討論當中我們跟你們討論就是來看下一張體育署在相關的查詢網站當中如果我今天想要去查陳培瑜這個足球教練他過往有沒有對小孩做出不法的事情不管是性侵體罰不當對待之類等等的犯罪行為體育署的網站是說這個樣態他其實是查不到的他說要請家長回到單項協會如果我去單項協會的網站上看例如說陳培瑜是曾經是足球教練"},{"start":736.773,"end":759.726,"text":"如果陳培宇有了犯罪行為陳培宇的名字就會從足球單項協會的教練證名字被下架我們認為這樣是消極的我們辦公室主張一直以來我們也跟非常多兒權團體主張教練如果他犯了相關尤其是對於小孩不當對待這些罪罰而且終局判決已經決定了他應該名字要被留在"},{"start":761.466,"end":786.954,"text":"單項協會或者是體育署的網站上讓家長知道這個人他不是只有被下架他曾經做過對孩子們傷害的行為當時體育署的說法說這有個資的問題所以我們就跟個資處這邊開了會你們的法律見解告訴我們在個資保護法16條第二款裡面增進公共利益的部分我們就可以主張使用這樣的資料所以我們看到今年高雄市政府非常有 guts"},{"start":787.634,"end":804.6,"text":"他們收到了體育署的公文在2024年7月16號他們就公告了非常多對孩子有不當對待人的名字而且是哪一項教練然後他的全名全文公告出來我認為這個是非常積極的對社區運動對於家長對於孩子的保護但是未來我不知道我們可不可以繼續主張我們認為像高雄市政府這樣做才是對的"},{"start":812.623,"end":838.042,"text":"還是要回到我的投影片的左手邊體育署認為基於保護這些教練的個資他們的這個樣態不可以被公告我想要聽聽看你們的法律見解委員就是我們先前幾次委員多次開這個協調會我們表達的意見就是說因為他是一個政府資訊那因為依照我們目前的這個司法實務見解就是說政府資訊裡面他雖然含有個人資料"},{"start":838.422,"end":858.755,"text":"那因為它是一個政府資訊公開法有一個明文規定所以會依照就是個資法十六條第一款它是屬於法律明文規定的情況那所以它所有的這個包含它的公開提供或是它的限制都會回到政府資訊公開法相關的規定那因為政資法的十八條的第一項第六款"},{"start":859.195,"end":886.72,"text":"他其實針對說如果有政府資訊的公開或提供有侵害個人隱私的話應限制公開或不予提供但是對公益有必要的話他還是可以去對外提供那至於對公益有必要跟這個個人隱私之間他到底這個公益跟私益的這個權衡這是要由這個政府資訊的保有機關也就是教育部體育署這邊他可以去做個案的權衡就是他去權衡這個公益跟私益那還是有這樣的一個"},{"start":887.8,"end":914.92,"text":"機制可以去做一個公開好所以聽起來其實他並不是只能指向某一端去解釋這件事情看起來他必須從個案來看去做權衡那聽起來我覺得體育署也好或者是各自處這邊有不同的法律見解不過我想我今天之所以公開質詢是希望我們辦公室後續在這一題我們會積極推進到時候也要拜託各自處這邊持續提供給我們法律見解跟意見然後讓我們再跟體育署溝通或者是到時候可能也會有法務部的角色"},{"start":915.48,"end":930.312,"text":"協助我們在保護兒少這一塊我們可以做得更積極如同高雄市政府所做出那個公文這樣好嗎是好謝謝主席謝謝各自處謝謝主席跟我想找朋友的話好謝謝中華電信有來對不對好拜託一下好這個是公益的事情謝謝"},{"start":932.113,"end":958.468,"text":"主席我問的都很公益謝謝主席感謝中華電信在去年前任董事長有喊出要經費加碼4成我想只是要跟您確定一下今年換了董總之後對女藍的支持還是會繼續嗎是因為我現在服務金門跟馬祖其實過往我們所謂的城鄉回饋到社區裡面去我們希望後續有更多機會WSB打完之後後續有公益列車規劃可以到更多偏鄉服務更多的孩子好不好"},{"start":959.23,"end":960.977,"text":"好 我們一起來努力促成謝謝中華電影 謝謝主席 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":684,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時44分）謝謝主席，我想先請NCC。"],["主席：麻煩NCC。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝NCC。我想今天的這個題目，我覺得要先幫人民定義一件事情，我們可以看到在相關的新聞中電信三雄齊聲否認洩漏個資，據我看相關的新聞報導，事實上在3G的年代，三大電信是不是就接受NCC的監督，認為相關業務是不得在電信公司裡面進行的？我想要請您先說明一下。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是的，因為電信業者本來就是NCC所轄管的，我們在個資法的法遵上也有依據個資法第二十七條訂有安維辦法，請他們落實這些個資維護相關事項。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，截至目前為止，這還是你們轄管的業務內容，對嗎？如果他們真的有做出疑似洩漏個資的行為，其實NCC會第一時間去進行調查，包含主席今天排的這個案子，其實當時你們已經進行調查，所以我們看到了相關的業務報告，對嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，我們已經進行調查，5月3號披露之後，5月5號和5月9號兩次找他們來做行政調查。"],["陳委員培瑜：預計什麼時候會公布相關調查報告？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們調查已經告一段落，也把相關的資料函送給相關機關看是否有違反個資請他們卓處。簡單來講這個簡訊發送的流程裡，從最源頭端的簡訊代發業者的企客、簡訊代發業者，再來三大電信公司再到一般用戶，NCC能夠管的範圍是針對三大電信這一塊，我們也做行政調查。另外，代發業者跟代發業者企客，是由相關主管機關來處理，因為一個是資訊服務業者，另一個是行銷公司，那個不在NCC作用法所能管轄的範圍內。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝，您說的非常得清楚，三大電信歸NCC管，你們已經做了相關調查，可是所謂代發業者、簡訊代理公司，或是廣告行銷商，他們相關的業務就不歸你們管轄，所以我們可不可以定義這一次，也就是主席特地排案的這個事件比較接近哪一個樣態？比較接近廣告代理商的問題，還是在三大電信這邊？請您再次說明。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：就我們完成行政調查的結果，它的問題應該是出現在最上游端簡訊代發業者企客、企業用戶那邊，他們為什麼會有這些個資資料，是那一塊的部分。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，這一塊其實就是國人最擔心、最有疑慮的，也就是我們可能在非常多地方消費，我們都會留下會員資料，或是像我自己的小孩，可能他的學校資料就曾經被一些補習班拿去用。過往到底民間這些商業服務公司如何使用我們每一個人的個資，其實樣態是不清楚的，可是確實如果收到相關簡訊是會讓人擔心的，剛剛王義川委員其實也有提醒這一塊。我可不可以請NCC跟我們說明，到底我們身為一般消費者，不管是哪個電信公司的門號使用者、消費者，我有沒有拒絕像這種簡訊的權利？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有。一般民眾如果要電信公司提供LBS服務，電信公司必須要問他同不同意提供他LBS服務，他同意的話，才會提供這個服務。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們有沒有在過往相關的業務當中提醒民眾，當我們在申辦電信門號時，或者當我電信門號已經使用超過一段時間，我認為這個LBS的訊息確實讓我感到困擾的時候，我可以做後續的主張，如同您剛剛說的。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有，而且他們隨時可以Opt-in和Opt-out，隨時可以去跟電信公司申請的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，如果真的像您所說的，我認為加強宣導應該很重要，至於另外一個廣告代理公司的部分，或是其他廣告代理商的部分，那個是另外一個議題，我覺得比較困擾，但是我還是要提醒NCC，可不可以舉一些例子來幫我們說明，就一般民眾的角度，什麼樣的簡訊有可能是三大電信發出來的，而什麼樣的簡訊比較像是廣告代理公司發出來的，您可不可以幫我們做科普性的說明，讓一般消費者知道今天如果收到一個簡訊，不管是政治類、非政治類，我要怎麼判斷它是來自三大電信公司的問題？或者是來自廣告代理公司的問題？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，從技術面來看，民眾所有的簡訊都是電信公司發的，但是它只是透明化的一些傳送，就是跟電信管理法第八條一樣，源頭端發送的人通常都不會是三大電信公司，除非是三大電信公司自己的促銷方案。通常都是發信者……"],["陳委員培瑜：對，例如說哪一家公司有什麼促銷方案，可能是三大電信公司用內部客戶的資料去發這個簡訊，所以您的意思是說，大部分的廣告簡訊，或是我們今天要談的政治類的簡訊，極有可能大部分應該是廣告代理公司、行銷公司、公關公司，他們不知道在什麼情況下拿到我們每一個人的個資，然後透過三大電信的管道發送出去，比較像是這樣？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，大部分情況是這樣。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，但因為這不是你們業管的嘛，對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，源頭端資料蒐集是它自己要負責任，它有違反，應該是相關主管機關來處理。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，但是如果由三大電信這一端出去的，我覺得就是要再次拜託NCC可以再加強宣導，對於一般使用者來說，我確實是可以直接要求這些電信公司不可以用我的資料，或者說我不想收到LBS簡訊，這個是我們可以再次加強宣導跟推廣的，對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：會，我們去年也有修改定型化服務契約第三十七條的規定，他們各自的宣告事項一定要告訴民眾，針對各種態樣的商業簡訊服務，民眾也有隨時選擇退出的權利。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們希望看到你們更清楚的廣告文宣。不過，我想確定一下，你們的廣告文宣費有沒有被刪？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們這一塊的費用，有些是在基金那邊，目前還可以。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們希望看到更多你們對於一般民眾的加強推廣，我覺得也可以減少大家收到相關簡訊的疑慮，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，我們來努力。"],["陳委員培瑜：我認為要增加很多社會溝通，除了政治議題，增加很多社會溝通絕對是必要的，好嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，沒問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝。接下來我要回到兒少議題，我要拜託警政署，NCC請回，謝謝。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們關心政治議題、關心政治困境，我們要關心家長所擔心的，整個周末，所有的家長社群都炸鍋了，就是在臺北、新北、高雄，好像連桃園也有，有中國直播主在國小外面拍攝引起的爭議跟擔心，我不知道警政署有沒有掌握相關進度跟資料？"],["張署長榮興：有掌握這些資料。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，可不可以說明一下？"],["張署長榮興：目前我們掌握到高雄有一件，對於這個直播主的拍攝行為，經過查證之後，這一件是沒有牽涉到拍攝學童的狀況，所以這一件沒有成案。第二案是在臺北市……"],["陳委員培瑜：等一下，你們成案的標準是有沒有拍攝到小孩的臉，是這樣嗎？"],["張署長榮興：對，就是這個案子……"],["陳委員培瑜：所以他整個直播片段你們全部都看完，一個小孩的臉都沒有拍到？"],["張署長榮興：這個案子就是他沒有對於這樣的行為……經過調查之後，沒有涉嫌違法。"],["陳委員培瑜：拜託警政署講白話文給一般民眾聽……"],["張署長榮興：就是這一件……"],["陳委員培瑜：家長在意的是，小孩的臉有沒有被拍到，然後被不當的應用？"],["張署長榮興：這一件沒有被不當應用，那第二件是有。"],["陳委員培瑜：第二件是哪一個？"],["張署長榮興：第二件是發生在臺北市的……"],["陳委員培瑜：民生國小門口嗎？"],["張署長榮興：對，民生國小這一件是有拍攝到學童相關樣態，這個樣態裡面是有違反兒童及少年權益保障法……"],["陳委員培瑜：兒少權法。"],["張署長榮興：兒少法，也違反個資保護法。"],["陳委員培瑜：個資法，好。"],["張署長榮興：也違反刑法的妨害秘密，所以這個案子……"],["陳委員培瑜：妨害秘密。"],["張署長榮興：關於這個案子，我們依這三個法律來移送法辦。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以你們這邊已經有在進行了。"],["張署長榮興：有進行了，有移送法辦。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，太好了。那高雄呢？"],["張署長榮興：這一件經過調查的結果是沒有。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，高雄沒有，那新北呢？"],["張署長榮興：對於新北，目前我沒有還沒有接到這個訊息。"],["陳委員培瑜：還沒有接到訊息？可是網路上……警政署長你看一下，連我在網路上都找得到耶！"],["張署長榮興：那是去年11月的事情，這個案子應該也是沒有違法的事證。"],["陳委員培瑜：也是沒有違法。好，你們後續很快的做出讓家長安心的動作，非常謝謝你們的回應。"],["張署長榮興：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：我再次跟您強調，你們會以違反兒少權法、違反個資法、違反妨害秘密做相關的處理，對嗎？"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，那我們後續如何防備這個狀態？"],["張署長榮興：對於這個部分，因為學校也是我們警察安全維護的一個地點，我們會加強巡邏的密度，也會加強跟學校的聯繫，看有沒有這樣的情形。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以是地方派出所的基層同仁要負責在門口巡嗎？每天上學時間嗎？"],["張署長榮興：應該都會有，會有這樣的編排勤務。"],["陳委員培瑜：我要幫基層同仁……"],["張署長榮興：就是上學跟放學的時候。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，目前只會針對國小嗎？國中、高中呢？"],["張署長榮興：應該最主要就是國小跟國中，針對未成年。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以我們可以這樣說嗎？當然基層同仁不可能天天到每一所學校門口去站崗，但是我們可不可以對社會公開呼籲，假設有家長或是路人、老師發現孩子們上學跟放學的時候有奇怪的人在門口做出奇怪的直播，我們其實可以打電話到派出所或報警請求相關協助，進行現場的蒐證跟處理，我可以這樣公開呼籲嗎？"],["張署長榮興：可以，沒問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，那就請您幫我們重述一遍，讓我們的家長知道，因為家長社群在周末真的是炸鍋了。"],["張署長榮興：好，如果有這些非法蒐集及一些拍攝學童的行為，請立即打電話到110或轄區的派出所報案，我們會到場處理。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，其實大家也會擔心國安的議題，但因為時間有限，我今天就沒有辦法再針對國安多說，至少警政署在這一塊會做出非常明快的處理，我們在這邊謝謝警政署，也謝謝非常非常辛苦的基層同仁，謝謝。","接下來有請個資處，警政署請回，謝謝。"],["張署長榮興：謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：您好，個資處。我想跟你討論一下，其實我們之前就因為單項教練證的問題跟你們開過會，也跟法務部開過會，但是因為牽扯到個資的問題，所以我今天花比較多時間想要跟您討論相關法律見解。","因為運動部在9月即將掛牌，未來臺灣會有一個全民運動署，也就是更多校園運動可能會延伸到社區裡面，非常多孩子們練習運動的場域也會從校園的體育隊、體育班到社區裡面的社區俱樂部，所以我們可以想見未來會有更多的教練進到社區裡面，為孩子提供服務跟教學。但同時我們也擔心，可能很多非法的樣態會從學校擴散到社區裡面，我們提早做出預防，因為確實過去有非常多案例，在相關討論當中，我想跟你們討論，在體育署相關的查詢網站當中，如果我今天想要去查陳培瑜這個足球教練過往有沒有對小孩做出不法的事情，不管是性侵、體罰、不當對待之類等等的犯罪行為，體育署的網站其實對於這個樣態是查不到的，他們要請家長回到單項協會；如果我去單項協會的網站上看，例如陳培瑜曾經是足球教練，如果陳培瑜有了犯罪行為，陳培瑜的名字就會被足球單項協會教練證資訊中下架，我們認為這樣是消極的，我們辦公室主張，一直以來我們也跟非常多兒權團體一起主張，教練如果犯了相關罪刑，尤其是對於小孩不當對待的罪罰，而且終局判決已經決定了，他的名字應該要被留在單項協會或是體育署的網站上，讓家長知道這個人不是只有被下架，他曾經對孩子們做過傷害的行為。當時體育署的說法是，這有個資的問題，所以我們就跟個資處開了會，你們的法律見解告訴我們，在個資保護法第十六條第二款，在增進公共利益的部分，我們可以主張使用這樣的資料，所以我們看到今年高雄市政府非常有guts，他們收到了體育署的公文，在2024年7月16號就公告了非常多對孩子有不當對待的人的名字，而且是哪一項運動的教練，然後把他的全名公告出來，我認為這是非常積極的對社區運動、對於家長、對於孩子的保護，但是未來我不知道我們可不可以繼續主張？我們認為像高雄市政府這樣做才是對的。還是要回到我的投影片的左手邊，體育署認為基於保護這些教練的個資，他們的樣態不可以被公告？我想聽聽看你們的法律見解。"],["林組長裕嘉：是，如同我們先前幾次與委員多次開協調會所表達的意見，因為它是一個政府資訊，依照我們目前的司法實務見解，政府資訊裡面雖然含有個人資料，因為政府資訊公開法有一個明文規定，所以會依照個資法第十六條第一款，它是屬於法律明文規定的情況，所以所有的資訊，包含公開提供或是限制都會回到政府資訊公開法的相關規定。政資法第十八條第一項第六款是針對政府資訊的公開或提供有侵害個人隱私的話，應限制公開或不予提供，但是對公益有必要的話，還是可以對外提供。至於對公益有必要跟個人隱私之間，在公益跟私益間的權衡則是要由政府資訊的保有機關，也就是教育部體育署去做個案的權衡，由他們去權衡公益跟私益，還是有這樣的機制可以去公開。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以聽起來其實它並不是只能指向某一端去解釋這件事情，看起來它必須從個案去做權衡。"],["林組長裕嘉：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：聽起來我覺得體育署也好，或是個資處這邊有不同的法律見解，我想我今天之所以公開質詢，是希望我們辦公室後續在這一題會積極推進，到時候也要拜託個資處持續提供給我們法律見解跟意見，讓我們再跟體育署溝通，或是到時候可能也會有法務部的角色，協助我們在保護兒少這一塊可以做得更積極，如同高雄市政府所做出的那個公文，這樣好嗎？"],["林組長裕嘉：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝個資處。"],["林組長裕嘉：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：主席，再給我30秒就好了，謝謝。","中華電信有來，對不對？拜託一下，這個是公益的事情，謝謝。主席，我問的都很公益，謝謝主席。","感謝中華電信，去年前任董事長有喊出經費要加碼四成，我只是想要跟您確定一下，今年換了董總之後，對女藍的支持還是會繼續嗎？"],["林執行副總經理文智：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，因為我現在服務金門跟馬祖，其實過往我們有城鄉回饋到社區裡面去，我們希望後續有更多機會，WSBL打完之後，後續有公益列車規劃，可以到更多偏鄉服務更多的孩子，好不好？"],["林執行副總經理文智：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們一起來努力促成，謝謝。謝謝中華電信，謝謝主席，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。","報告委員會，先前預告11點處理臨時提案，後來提案人已撤回提案，作以上說明。","另外，我這邊要補充一下：因為剛剛有委員提到今天的議程怎麼沒有加入某些縣市有使用個資的問題，我想因為我們今天的議程還是限縮在簡訊的發送，至於那一塊，就看莊瑞雄委員或我這邊將來有沒有要再安排專案報告或是公聽會等等，那個就之後再看，但是它並沒有在本日的議程內，所以跟大家先說明一下剛剛委員提出的詢問。","第二個，有關今天的議題，我跟各行政機關以及中華電信的同仁報告一下，因為社會對於一些事情民眾會有質疑，我們的工作就是把質疑帶到這裡跟大家詢問，當然，如果經過政府部門或是三大業者的說明之後，我們可以得到滿意的答案或人民可以釋疑的話，這就是我們今天舉辦這一場會議目的所在，並不是今天一定要追究誰的責任或怎麼樣，但我們要釐清。我也很認同剛剛吳思瑤委員說的，他說到底是商業使用或是政治使用，這個將來也是可以去釐清，釐清之後，我們可以做規定上的修正或是法律上的修正，因為當初的訂定比較沒有那麼明確，所以當民眾在中華電信的定型化契約上簽名的時候，他以為是商務使用，他授權給你商務使用，但是後來怎麼會收到一些政治的訊息，有一些人就會不滿，這一塊是不是我們可以當作將來修法或修改契約時的一個依據？這就是我們今天的目的，而不是說在這裡互相政治攻擊，或說國民黨以前也幹過、民進黨以前也幹過，我覺得這反而不是今天會議的主軸。","我在這邊跟各位報告一下，因為我們都希望國家更好，希望人民不要擔心個資被使用，所以今天大家來集思廣益，然後去做將來的一些修正，如果今天這個被認定是政治使用，而且已經超過當初中華電信的定型化契約範圍的話，那定型化契約是不是可以寫得更明確一點或是可以排除掉什麼？我知道NCC是管三大業者，三大業者又有企業的社會責任去管那些簡訊代發的公司，我們只是希望利用今天的時間把大家聚集在一起，把一些問題點出來，大家一起討論，就這樣，我想立法院應該是這樣，而不是罵來罵去或政治攻擊。謝謝各位。","下一位請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":258,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王義川","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳培瑜","吳思瑤","張啓楷","麥玉珍","翁曉玲","羅智強","王鴻薇","葉元之","林倩綺"],"page_start":183,"meetingDate":["2025-05-19"],"gazette_id":"1145202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、內\n政部警政署署長、中央選舉委員會、數位發展部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有\n限公司率所屬相關單位列席就「民眾反應收到罷免連署簡訊，顯非商業廣告目的利用，質疑個資\n洩漏而侵害人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145202_00002"}}}