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\"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 559.192, \"end\": 559.312, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 559.312, \"end\": 559.772, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 559.772, \"end\": 559.792, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:11,859\n超明委員後我們休息五分鐘因為已經開很久好謝謝主席我想要請部長好有請陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:19,710 --> 00:00:34,210\n委員長部長早安我想要請問一下2018年農業部曾經決定要推動雞蛋全面洗選那希望把洗選蛋從三成提高到100%\n\n3\n00:00:36,172 --> 00:00:52,609\n但是这么多年从2018到现在你看全面洗选其实还没有完全到位你们到底有没有想要推动现在到底遇到什么问题第一个是不是\n\n4\n00:00:53,670 --> 00:01:16,301\n我們現在飼養雞的機場有沒有辦法整體的配合我們洗選蛋的這樣子的一個供應的系統你雞蛋上面的噴墨到底會不會造成消費者相關他們在食用上的疑慮你是不是能說明清楚\n\n5\n00:01:17,643 --> 00:01:44,110\n謝委員非常關心這個雞蛋的洗選的部分那現在目前洗選的百分比大概是50到一半從2018年到現在從30%上升到50我們曾經檢討過第一個就是洗選的量能這是第一個第二個更重要就是說你後端的這個洗選蛋的供應量所以我們現在一直在努力看看可不可以將早餐店\n\n6\n00:01:44,990 --> 00:02:00,840\n因為藻攤店本身如果經過洗選它是比較安全衛生的如果它藻攤店能夠順利地用洗選單的時候那前端因為有需求所以牧場端就會進到洗選端所以兩個關鍵因素一個是洗選場的量能\n\n7\n00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:20,855\n那席選兩年現在大概起來了因為在過去幾年我們有做協助現在就是需求端如果拉得出來那就會往這邊繼續所以大家不喜歡用席選單大家還是喜歡傳統的買單用挑的所以我們現在就是說從市場端包括餐廳包括早餐店\n\n8\n00:02:21,175 --> 00:02:34,059\n那為什麼民眾會有這樣子的我們現在在溝通啦我比較不喜歡用強制的一下強制的人就能反彈為什麼民眾會喜歡這樣子不喜歡洗選蛋是不是有什麼原因有洗選蛋是他們覺得噴墨會造成影響還是說\n\n9\n00:02:42,456 --> 00:03:06,704\n還有是不是那對於我們現在養雞大家在談寵物福利的相關的問題嘛那國外很流行的是放牧雞嘛那我們在台灣其實放牧雞的方式我們沒有那麼多的就是說養雞場沒有那麼多的空間那未來我們新的現代化的養雞場要怎麼樣子能夠達到\n\n10\n00:03:08,904 --> 00:03:27,413\n動物福利的這樣子的一個設施呢我想我們後續在推養雞場的改建或興建的時候其實立體化的栽培是全世界一個趨勢包括養豬場、養雞場它的立體化栽培它的空間就有機會變大那這個部分我想台南已經有一個廠\n\n11\n00:03:28,813 --> 00:03:46,017\n你趕快來我們彰化弄一個啊是不是我們會努力找業者有三分之一顆的雞蛋全部都是彰化來的彰化本身的牌照是被鎖住的因為我們也不希望那個養雞場新增太快那立體化呢\n\n12\n00:03:46,377 --> 00:04:10,671\n但是改進立體化的話我們可以來考慮就是它立體化以後量變多了那是不是可以用其他的廠類式合作的方式來處理而且需要現代化嘛那現代化的方式你能夠增加投資那是不是可以結合企業的ESG相關的這樣子的誘因進去你才能促使這些飼養戶\n\n13\n00:04:11,812 --> 00:04:31,419\n能夠去投資嘛投資一定是需要成本的在這種成本沒有誘因的情況下養雞戶是不會要去做這相關的事情對這個我想謝謝委員的提醒喔包括ESG的導入包括一些融資貸款的低利貸款的誘因還有對於環境永續\n\n14\n00:04:32,519 --> 00:04:49,944\n對於不影響其他周邊的住戶這個都是我們需要改進的部分嘛是不是你沒有提供相關的誘因的情況下飼養戶怎麼會改進沒有改進的情況下影響的也是全部的居民啊是不是\n\n15\n00:04:51,412 --> 00:05:18,049\n我想謝謝委員的提醒我們後續如果有一個比較好的規劃也許可以到彰化去開一個說明會然後去讓這些這些基農就是養雞的這些最主要的大戶的部分讓他了解有什麼樣的方式可以讓環境更衛生然後不會變成零幣作用然後立體化栽培提高它的育成效率這個部分我想我們再來規劃來提供好那我再請教第二問題今天有非常多的\n\n16\n00:05:18,829 --> 00:05:34,821\n委員都講到了落農其實我們知道落農的就是說牛或者是羊他們影響乳量最大的部分就是他們的飼料就是牧草\n\n17\n00:05:36,282 --> 00:05:56,645\n過去我們有說到希望國內的青稞玉米的產量能夠提高那你有沒有辦法做到提高到46萬公噸這個就是在我們的雜糧轉做裡面他轉青稞玉米的政策誘因要下購\n\n18\n00:05:57,767 --> 00:06:05,122\n那這樣的話就會變成清割玉米然後讓它有一些木草可以還有一些蘭薇草的部分也是一樣這個我們正在設計\n\n19\n00:06:06,690 --> 00:06:26,997\n有没有什么样的政策要因你设计你有没有跟主要的乳品供应商共同来讨论他们对于乳量据我了解他们对于乳量的控制第一个就是从它的饲料的部分\n\n20\n00:06:28,237 --> 00:06:54,927\n如果他們的要求裡面沒有能夠接受國內我們的青稞玉米那當然我們有非常強大的改良廠啊我們可以就是製造出來就是我們的牛能夠生產出優質乳量的時候他所需要的這個甘草嘛那為什麼他們要用國外進口的百慕達草為什麼\n\n21\n00:06:57,068 --> 00:07:11,590\n我想基本上我們台灣的氣候的關係我們在木茶收割以後它的乾燥跟打包有沒有它的效率比較不好而且它的濕度水分含量比較高所以很容易台灣話叫凹到有沒有它就會比較\n\n22\n00:07:13,072 --> 00:07:40,153\n口感或質感都比較不好所以這個部分這也會影響乳量嘛對然後我們在續長那個什麼我們的敘事所其實已經有一些比較新進的新進的技術所以我才會說我們在第一個轉做的部分把牧草納進去如果第一個鼓勵他們去種第二個就是在乾燥打包的那個技術如果能夠讓我們的畜牧業者認同的時候那相關的相關的這些飼料的轉移就會開始進行\n\n23\n00:07:41,474 --> 00:07:56,331\n那所以目前還沒有辦法現在有少部分每一年都還是有少部分的國內的這些牧草進到我們的飼料系統因為我們要雜糧轉做我希望說我們對於這個我們必須要就是優化我們整個就是農作業\n\n24\n00:07:57,311 --> 00:08:12,656\n也希望說在大家都仰賴進口的牧草的情況下是不是能夠採用就地的牧草那這個部分我相信以我們農業部的技術是有辦法去克服那是不是能夠設下一個目標\n\n25\n00:08:13,896 --> 00:08:33,769\n讓我們農業部對於我們的使用國內牧草就是我們的飼養使用國內牧草能不能有一個共同的目標那這個情況下是不是然後大家共同來做那當然也需要所有的乳品業者共同的配合是不是我想第一個就是我們回去會針對\n\n26\n00:08:36,471 --> 00:08:59,317\n牧草的政策由於就是轉作的時候是不是有機會把這個機器人打破只要他願意種就可以得到一些獎勵然後這個部分如果有的話面積會比較多然後會再跟飼養牛的畜牧場去合作我們先找一些示範願意來做的然後去做配方的調整那可以的話我們就會大力來推動\n\n27\n00:09:00,037 --> 00:09:19,792\n好我希望說我們可以建立這樣的目標不然過去我們在推動一段期間都沒有就是成效的情況下未來希望可以達到目標那當然也能夠讓台灣的農地做有效的利用然後能夠達到永續的這個發展好謝謝委員提醒我們會努力謝謝好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t11859\t超明委員後我們休息五分鐘因為已經開很久好謝謝主席我想要請部長好有請陳部長\n19710\t34210\t委員長部長早安我想要請問一下2018年農業部曾經決定要推動雞蛋全面洗選那希望把洗選蛋從三成提高到100%\n36172\t52609\t但是这么多年从2018到现在你看全面洗选其实还没有完全到位你们到底有没有想要推动现在到底遇到什么问题第一个是不是\n53670\t76301\t我們現在飼養雞的機場有沒有辦法整體的配合我們洗選蛋的這樣子的一個供應的系統你雞蛋上面的噴墨到底會不會造成消費者相關他們在食用上的疑慮你是不是能說明清楚\n77643\t104110\t謝委員非常關心這個雞蛋的洗選的部分那現在目前洗選的百分比大概是50到一半從2018年到現在從30%上升到50我們曾經檢討過第一個就是洗選的量能這是第一個第二個更重要就是說你後端的這個洗選蛋的供應量所以我們現在一直在努力看看可不可以將早餐店\n104990\t120840\t因為藻攤店本身如果經過洗選它是比較安全衛生的如果它藻攤店能夠順利地用洗選單的時候那前端因為有需求所以牧場端就會進到洗選端所以兩個關鍵因素一個是洗選場的量能\n121320\t140855\t那席選兩年現在大概起來了因為在過去幾年我們有做協助現在就是需求端如果拉得出來那就會往這邊繼續所以大家不喜歡用席選單大家還是喜歡傳統的買單用挑的所以我們現在就是說從市場端包括餐廳包括早餐店\n141175\t154059\t那為什麼民眾會有這樣子的我們現在在溝通啦我比較不喜歡用強制的一下強制的人就能反彈為什麼民眾會喜歡這樣子不喜歡洗選蛋是不是有什麼原因有洗選蛋是他們覺得噴墨會造成影響還是說\n162456\t186704\t還有是不是那對於我們現在養雞大家在談寵物福利的相關的問題嘛那國外很流行的是放牧雞嘛那我們在台灣其實放牧雞的方式我們沒有那麼多的就是說養雞場沒有那麼多的空間那未來我們新的現代化的養雞場要怎麼樣子能夠達到\n188904\t207413\t動物福利的這樣子的一個設施呢我想我們後續在推養雞場的改建或興建的時候其實立體化的栽培是全世界一個趨勢包括養豬場、養雞場它的立體化栽培它的空間就有機會變大那這個部分我想台南已經有一個廠\n208813\t226017\t你趕快來我們彰化弄一個啊是不是我們會努力找業者有三分之一顆的雞蛋全部都是彰化來的彰化本身的牌照是被鎖住的因為我們也不希望那個養雞場新增太快那立體化呢\n226377\t250671\t但是改進立體化的話我們可以來考慮就是它立體化以後量變多了那是不是可以用其他的廠類式合作的方式來處理而且需要現代化嘛那現代化的方式你能夠增加投資那是不是可以結合企業的ESG相關的這樣子的誘因進去你才能促使這些飼養戶\n251812\t271419\t能夠去投資嘛投資一定是需要成本的在這種成本沒有誘因的情況下養雞戶是不會要去做這相關的事情對 這個我想謝謝委員的提醒喔包括ESG的導入包括一些融資貸款的 低利貸款的誘因還有對於環境永續\n272519\t289944\t對於不影響其他周邊的住戶這個都是我們需要改進的部分嘛是不是你沒有提供相關的誘因的情況下飼養戶怎麼會改進沒有改進的情況下影響的也是全部的居民啊是不是\n291412\t318049\t我想謝謝委員的提醒我們後續如果有一個比較好的規劃也許可以到彰化去開一個說明會然後去讓這些這些基農就是養雞的這些最主要的大戶的部分讓他了解有什麼樣的方式可以讓環境更衛生然後不會變成零幣作用然後立體化栽培提高它的育成效率這個部分我想我們再來規劃來提供好那我再請教第二問題今天有非常多的\n318829\t334821\t委員都講到了落農其實我們知道落農的就是說牛或者是羊他們影響乳量最大的部分就是他們的飼料就是牧草\n336282\t356645\t過去我們有說到希望國內的青稞玉米的產量能夠提高那你有沒有辦法做到提高到46萬公噸這個就是在我們的雜糧轉做裡面他轉青稞玉米的政策誘因要下購\n357767\t365122\t那這樣的話就會變成清割玉米然後讓它有一些木草可以還有一些蘭薇草的部分也是一樣這個我們正在設計\n366690\t386997\t有没有什么样的政策要因你设计你有没有跟主要的乳品供应商共同来讨论他们对于乳量据我了解他们对于乳量的控制第一个就是从它的饲料的部分\n388237\t414927\t如果他們的要求裡面沒有能夠接受國內我們的青稞玉米那當然我們有非常強大的改良廠啊我們可以就是製造出來就是我們的牛能夠生產出優質乳量的時候他所需要的這個甘草嘛那為什麼他們要用國外進口的百慕達草為什麼\n417068\t431590\t我想基本上我們台灣的氣候的關係我們在木茶收割以後它的乾燥跟打包有沒有它的效率比較不好而且它的濕度水分含量比較高所以很容易台灣話叫凹到有沒有它就會比較\n433072\t460153\t口感或質感都比較不好所以這個部分這也會影響乳量嘛對 然後我們在續長那個什麼我們的敘事所其實已經有一些比較新進的新進的技術所以我才會說我們在第一個轉做的部分把牧草納進去如果第一個鼓勵他們去種第二個就是在乾燥打包的那個技術如果能夠讓我們的畜牧業者認同的時候那相關的相關的這些飼料的轉移就會開始進行\n461474\t476331\t那所以目前還沒有辦法現在有少部分每一年都還是有少部分的國內的這些牧草進到我們的飼料系統因為我們要雜糧轉做我希望說我們對於這個我們必須要就是優化我們整個就是農作業\n477311\t492656\t也希望說在大家都仰賴進口的牧草的情況下是不是能夠採用就地的牧草那這個部分我相信以我們農業部的技術是有辦法去克服那是不是能夠設下一個目標\n493896\t513769\t讓我們農業部對於我們的使用國內牧草就是我們的飼養使用國內牧草能不能有一個共同的目標那這個情況下是不是然後大家共同來做那當然也需要所有的乳品業者共同的配合是不是我想第一個就是我們回去會針對\n516471\t539317\t牧草的政策由於就是轉作的時候是不是有機會把這個機器人打破只要他願意種就可以得到一些獎勵然後這個部分如果有的話面積會比較多然後會再跟飼養牛的畜牧場去合作我們先找一些示範願意來做的然後去做配方的調整那可以的話我們就會大力來推動\n540037\t559792\t好我希望說我們可以建立這樣的目標不然過去我們在推動一段期間都沒有就是成效的情況下未來希望可以達到目標那當然也能夠讓台灣的農地做有效的利用然後能夠達到永續的這個發展好謝謝委員提醒我們會努力謝謝好\n","txt":"超明委員後我們休息五分鐘因為已經開很久好謝謝主席我想要請部長好有請陳部長\n委員長部長早安我想要請問一下2018年農業部曾經決定要推動雞蛋全面洗選那希望把洗選蛋從三成提高到100%\n但是这么多年从2018到现在你看全面洗选其实还没有完全到位你们到底有没有想要推动现在到底遇到什么问题第一个是不是\n我們現在飼養雞的機場有沒有辦法整體的配合我們洗選蛋的這樣子的一個供應的系統你雞蛋上面的噴墨到底會不會造成消費者相關他們在食用上的疑慮你是不是能說明清楚\n謝委員非常關心這個雞蛋的洗選的部分那現在目前洗選的百分比大概是50到一半從2018年到現在從30%上升到50我們曾經檢討過第一個就是洗選的量能這是第一個第二個更重要就是說你後端的這個洗選蛋的供應量所以我們現在一直在努力看看可不可以將早餐店\n因為藻攤店本身如果經過洗選它是比較安全衛生的如果它藻攤店能夠順利地用洗選單的時候那前端因為有需求所以牧場端就會進到洗選端所以兩個關鍵因素一個是洗選場的量能\n那席選兩年現在大概起來了因為在過去幾年我們有做協助現在就是需求端如果拉得出來那就會往這邊繼續所以大家不喜歡用席選單大家還是喜歡傳統的買單用挑的所以我們現在就是說從市場端包括餐廳包括早餐店\n那為什麼民眾會有這樣子的我們現在在溝通啦我比較不喜歡用強制的一下強制的人就能反彈為什麼民眾會喜歡這樣子不喜歡洗選蛋是不是有什麼原因有洗選蛋是他們覺得噴墨會造成影響還是說\n還有是不是那對於我們現在養雞大家在談寵物福利的相關的問題嘛那國外很流行的是放牧雞嘛那我們在台灣其實放牧雞的方式我們沒有那麼多的就是說養雞場沒有那麼多的空間那未來我們新的現代化的養雞場要怎麼樣子能夠達到\n動物福利的這樣子的一個設施呢我想我們後續在推養雞場的改建或興建的時候其實立體化的栽培是全世界一個趨勢包括養豬場、養雞場它的立體化栽培它的空間就有機會變大那這個部分我想台南已經有一個廠\n你趕快來我們彰化弄一個啊是不是我們會努力找業者有三分之一顆的雞蛋全部都是彰化來的彰化本身的牌照是被鎖住的因為我們也不希望那個養雞場新增太快那立體化呢\n但是改進立體化的話我們可以來考慮就是它立體化以後量變多了那是不是可以用其他的廠類式合作的方式來處理而且需要現代化嘛那現代化的方式你能夠增加投資那是不是可以結合企業的ESG相關的這樣子的誘因進去你才能促使這些飼養戶\n能夠去投資嘛投資一定是需要成本的在這種成本沒有誘因的情況下養雞戶是不會要去做這相關的事情對 這個我想謝謝委員的提醒喔包括ESG的導入包括一些融資貸款的 低利貸款的誘因還有對於環境永續\n對於不影響其他周邊的住戶這個都是我們需要改進的部分嘛是不是你沒有提供相關的誘因的情況下飼養戶怎麼會改進沒有改進的情況下影響的也是全部的居民啊是不是\n我想謝謝委員的提醒我們後續如果有一個比較好的規劃也許可以到彰化去開一個說明會然後去讓這些這些基農就是養雞的這些最主要的大戶的部分讓他了解有什麼樣的方式可以讓環境更衛生然後不會變成零幣作用然後立體化栽培提高它的育成效率這個部分我想我們再來規劃來提供好那我再請教第二問題今天有非常多的\n委員都講到了落農其實我們知道落農的就是說牛或者是羊他們影響乳量最大的部分就是他們的飼料就是牧草\n過去我們有說到希望國內的青稞玉米的產量能夠提高那你有沒有辦法做到提高到46萬公噸這個就是在我們的雜糧轉做裡面他轉青稞玉米的政策誘因要下購\n那這樣的話就會變成清割玉米然後讓它有一些木草可以還有一些蘭薇草的部分也是一樣這個我們正在設計\n有没有什么样的政策要因你设计你有没有跟主要的乳品供应商共同来讨论他们对于乳量据我了解他们对于乳量的控制第一个就是从它的饲料的部分\n如果他們的要求裡面沒有能夠接受國內我們的青稞玉米那當然我們有非常強大的改良廠啊我們可以就是製造出來就是我們的牛能夠生產出優質乳量的時候他所需要的這個甘草嘛那為什麼他們要用國外進口的百慕達草為什麼\n我想基本上我們台灣的氣候的關係我們在木茶收割以後它的乾燥跟打包有沒有它的效率比較不好而且它的濕度水分含量比較高所以很容易台灣話叫凹到有沒有它就會比較\n口感或質感都比較不好所以這個部分這也會影響乳量嘛對 然後我們在續長那個什麼我們的敘事所其實已經有一些比較新進的新進的技術所以我才會說我們在第一個轉做的部分把牧草納進去如果第一個鼓勵他們去種第二個就是在乾燥打包的那個技術如果能夠讓我們的畜牧業者認同的時候那相關的相關的這些飼料的轉移就會開始進行\n那所以目前還沒有辦法現在有少部分每一年都還是有少部分的國內的這些牧草進到我們的飼料系統因為我們要雜糧轉做我希望說我們對於這個我們必須要就是優化我們整個就是農作業\n也希望說在大家都仰賴進口的牧草的情況下是不是能夠採用就地的牧草那這個部分我相信以我們農業部的技術是有辦法去克服那是不是能夠設下一個目標\n讓我們農業部對於我們的使用國內牧草就是我們的飼養使用國內牧草能不能有一個共同的目標那這個情況下是不是然後大家共同來做那當然也需要所有的乳品業者共同的配合是不是我想第一個就是我們回去會針對\n牧草的政策由於就是轉作的時候是不是有機會把這個機器人打破只要他願意種就可以得到一些獎勵然後這個部分如果有的話面積會比較多然後會再跟飼養牛的畜牧場去合作我們先找一些示範願意來做的然後去做配方的調整那可以的話我們就會大力來推動\n好我希望說我們可以建立這樣的目標不然過去我們在推動一段期間都沒有就是成效的情況下未來希望可以達到目標那當然也能夠讓台灣的農地做有效的利用然後能夠達到永續的這個發展好謝謝委員提醒我們會努力謝謝好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:11.859\n超明委員後我們休息五分鐘因為已經開很久好謝謝主席我想要請部長好有請陳部長\n\n00:19.710 --> 00:34.210\n委員長部長早安我想要請問一下2018年農業部曾經決定要推動雞蛋全面洗選那希望把洗選蛋從三成提高到100%\n\n00:36.172 --> 00:52.609\n但是这么多年从2018到现在你看全面洗选其实还没有完全到位你们到底有没有想要推动现在到底遇到什么问题第一个是不是\n\n00:53.670 --> 01:16.301\n我們現在飼養雞的機場有沒有辦法整體的配合我們洗選蛋的這樣子的一個供應的系統你雞蛋上面的噴墨到底會不會造成消費者相關他們在食用上的疑慮你是不是能說明清楚\n\n01:17.643 --> 01:44.110\n謝委員非常關心這個雞蛋的洗選的部分那現在目前洗選的百分比大概是50到一半從2018年到現在從30%上升到50我們曾經檢討過第一個就是洗選的量能這是第一個第二個更重要就是說你後端的這個洗選蛋的供應量所以我們現在一直在努力看看可不可以將早餐店\n\n01:44.990 --> 02:00.840\n因為藻攤店本身如果經過洗選它是比較安全衛生的如果它藻攤店能夠順利地用洗選單的時候那前端因為有需求所以牧場端就會進到洗選端所以兩個關鍵因素一個是洗選場的量能\n\n02:01.320 --> 02:20.855\n那席選兩年現在大概起來了因為在過去幾年我們有做協助現在就是需求端如果拉得出來那就會往這邊繼續所以大家不喜歡用席選單大家還是喜歡傳統的買單用挑的所以我們現在就是說從市場端包括餐廳包括早餐店\n\n02:21.175 --> 02:34.059\n那為什麼民眾會有這樣子的我們現在在溝通啦我比較不喜歡用強制的一下強制的人就能反彈為什麼民眾會喜歡這樣子不喜歡洗選蛋是不是有什麼原因有洗選蛋是他們覺得噴墨會造成影響還是說\n\n02:42.456 --> 03:06.704\n還有是不是那對於我們現在養雞大家在談寵物福利的相關的問題嘛那國外很流行的是放牧雞嘛那我們在台灣其實放牧雞的方式我們沒有那麼多的就是說養雞場沒有那麼多的空間那未來我們新的現代化的養雞場要怎麼樣子能夠達到\n\n03:08.904 --> 03:27.413\n動物福利的這樣子的一個設施呢我想我們後續在推養雞場的改建或興建的時候其實立體化的栽培是全世界一個趨勢包括養豬場、養雞場它的立體化栽培它的空間就有機會變大那這個部分我想台南已經有一個廠\n\n03:28.813 --> 03:46.017\n你趕快來我們彰化弄一個啊是不是我們會努力找業者有三分之一顆的雞蛋全部都是彰化來的彰化本身的牌照是被鎖住的因為我們也不希望那個養雞場新增太快那立體化呢\n\n03:46.377 --> 04:10.671\n但是改進立體化的話我們可以來考慮就是它立體化以後量變多了那是不是可以用其他的廠類式合作的方式來處理而且需要現代化嘛那現代化的方式你能夠增加投資那是不是可以結合企業的ESG相關的這樣子的誘因進去你才能促使這些飼養戶\n\n04:11.812 --> 04:31.419\n能夠去投資嘛投資一定是需要成本的在這種成本沒有誘因的情況下養雞戶是不會要去做這相關的事情對這個我想謝謝委員的提醒喔包括ESG的導入包括一些融資貸款的低利貸款的誘因還有對於環境永續\n\n04:32.519 --> 04:49.944\n對於不影響其他周邊的住戶這個都是我們需要改進的部分嘛是不是你沒有提供相關的誘因的情況下飼養戶怎麼會改進沒有改進的情況下影響的也是全部的居民啊是不是\n\n04:51.412 --> 05:18.049\n我想謝謝委員的提醒我們後續如果有一個比較好的規劃也許可以到彰化去開一個說明會然後去讓這些這些基農就是養雞的這些最主要的大戶的部分讓他了解有什麼樣的方式可以讓環境更衛生然後不會變成零幣作用然後立體化栽培提高它的育成效率這個部分我想我們再來規劃來提供好那我再請教第二問題今天有非常多的\n\n05:18.829 --> 05:34.821\n委員都講到了落農其實我們知道落農的就是說牛或者是羊他們影響乳量最大的部分就是他們的飼料就是牧草\n\n05:36.282 --> 05:56.645\n過去我們有說到希望國內的青稞玉米的產量能夠提高那你有沒有辦法做到提高到46萬公噸這個就是在我們的雜糧轉做裡面他轉青稞玉米的政策誘因要下購\n\n05:57.767 --> 06:05.122\n那這樣的話就會變成清割玉米然後讓它有一些木草可以還有一些蘭薇草的部分也是一樣這個我們正在設計\n\n06:06.690 --> 06:26.997\n有没有什么样的政策要因你设计你有没有跟主要的乳品供应商共同来讨论他们对于乳量据我了解他们对于乳量的控制第一个就是从它的饲料的部分\n\n06:28.237 --> 06:54.927\n如果他們的要求裡面沒有能夠接受國內我們的青稞玉米那當然我們有非常強大的改良廠啊我們可以就是製造出來就是我們的牛能夠生產出優質乳量的時候他所需要的這個甘草嘛那為什麼他們要用國外進口的百慕達草為什麼\n\n06:57.068 --> 07:11.590\n我想基本上我們台灣的氣候的關係我們在木茶收割以後它的乾燥跟打包有沒有它的效率比較不好而且它的濕度水分含量比較高所以很容易台灣話叫凹到有沒有它就會比較\n\n07:13.072 --> 07:40.153\n口感或質感都比較不好所以這個部分這也會影響乳量嘛對然後我們在續長那個什麼我們的敘事所其實已經有一些比較新進的新進的技術所以我才會說我們在第一個轉做的部分把牧草納進去如果第一個鼓勵他們去種第二個就是在乾燥打包的那個技術如果能夠讓我們的畜牧業者認同的時候那相關的相關的這些飼料的轉移就會開始進行\n\n07:41.474 --> 07:56.331\n那所以目前還沒有辦法現在有少部分每一年都還是有少部分的國內的這些牧草進到我們的飼料系統因為我們要雜糧轉做我希望說我們對於這個我們必須要就是優化我們整個就是農作業\n\n07:57.311 --> 08:12.656\n也希望說在大家都仰賴進口的牧草的情況下是不是能夠採用就地的牧草那這個部分我相信以我們農業部的技術是有辦法去克服那是不是能夠設下一個目標\n\n08:13.896 --> 08:33.769\n讓我們農業部對於我們的使用國內牧草就是我們的飼養使用國內牧草能不能有一個共同的目標那這個情況下是不是然後大家共同來做那當然也需要所有的乳品業者共同的配合是不是我想第一個就是我們回去會針對\n\n08:36.471 --> 08:59.317\n牧草的政策由於就是轉作的時候是不是有機會把這個機器人打破只要他願意種就可以得到一些獎勵然後這個部分如果有的話面積會比較多然後會再跟飼養牛的畜牧場去合作我們先找一些示範願意來做的然後去做配方的調整那可以的話我們就會大力來推動\n\n09:00.037 --> 09:19.792\n好我希望說我們可以建立這樣的目標不然過去我們在推動一段期間都沒有就是成效的情況下未來希望可以達到目標那當然也能夠讓台灣的農地做有效的利用然後能夠達到永續的這個發展好謝謝委員提醒我們會努力謝謝好\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":11.859,"text":"超明委員後我們休息五分鐘因為已經開很久好謝謝主席我想要請部長好有請陳部長"},{"start":19.71,"end":34.21,"text":"委員長部長早安我想要請問一下2018年農業部曾經決定要推動雞蛋全面洗選那希望把洗選蛋從三成提高到100%"},{"start":36.172,"end":52.609,"text":"但是这么多年从2018到现在你看全面洗选其实还没有完全到位你们到底有没有想要推动现在到底遇到什么问题第一个是不是"},{"start":53.67,"end":76.301,"text":"我們現在飼養雞的機場有沒有辦法整體的配合我們洗選蛋的這樣子的一個供應的系統你雞蛋上面的噴墨到底會不會造成消費者相關他們在食用上的疑慮你是不是能說明清楚"},{"start":77.643,"end":104.11,"text":"謝委員非常關心這個雞蛋的洗選的部分那現在目前洗選的百分比大概是50到一半從2018年到現在從30%上升到50我們曾經檢討過第一個就是洗選的量能這是第一個第二個更重要就是說你後端的這個洗選蛋的供應量所以我們現在一直在努力看看可不可以將早餐店"},{"start":104.99,"end":120.84,"text":"因為藻攤店本身如果經過洗選它是比較安全衛生的如果它藻攤店能夠順利地用洗選單的時候那前端因為有需求所以牧場端就會進到洗選端所以兩個關鍵因素一個是洗選場的量能"},{"start":121.32,"end":140.855,"text":"那席選兩年現在大概起來了因為在過去幾年我們有做協助現在就是需求端如果拉得出來那就會往這邊繼續所以大家不喜歡用席選單大家還是喜歡傳統的買單用挑的所以我們現在就是說從市場端包括餐廳包括早餐店"},{"start":141.175,"end":154.059,"text":"那為什麼民眾會有這樣子的我們現在在溝通啦我比較不喜歡用強制的一下強制的人就能反彈為什麼民眾會喜歡這樣子不喜歡洗選蛋是不是有什麼原因有洗選蛋是他們覺得噴墨會造成影響還是說"},{"start":162.456,"end":186.704,"text":"還有是不是那對於我們現在養雞大家在談寵物福利的相關的問題嘛那國外很流行的是放牧雞嘛那我們在台灣其實放牧雞的方式我們沒有那麼多的就是說養雞場沒有那麼多的空間那未來我們新的現代化的養雞場要怎麼樣子能夠達到"},{"start":188.904,"end":207.413,"text":"動物福利的這樣子的一個設施呢我想我們後續在推養雞場的改建或興建的時候其實立體化的栽培是全世界一個趨勢包括養豬場、養雞場它的立體化栽培它的空間就有機會變大那這個部分我想台南已經有一個廠"},{"start":208.813,"end":226.017,"text":"你趕快來我們彰化弄一個啊是不是我們會努力找業者有三分之一顆的雞蛋全部都是彰化來的彰化本身的牌照是被鎖住的因為我們也不希望那個養雞場新增太快那立體化呢"},{"start":226.377,"end":250.671,"text":"但是改進立體化的話我們可以來考慮就是它立體化以後量變多了那是不是可以用其他的廠類式合作的方式來處理而且需要現代化嘛那現代化的方式你能夠增加投資那是不是可以結合企業的ESG相關的這樣子的誘因進去你才能促使這些飼養戶"},{"start":251.812,"end":271.419,"text":"能夠去投資嘛投資一定是需要成本的在這種成本沒有誘因的情況下養雞戶是不會要去做這相關的事情對 這個我想謝謝委員的提醒喔包括ESG的導入包括一些融資貸款的 低利貸款的誘因還有對於環境永續"},{"start":272.519,"end":289.944,"text":"對於不影響其他周邊的住戶這個都是我們需要改進的部分嘛是不是你沒有提供相關的誘因的情況下飼養戶怎麼會改進沒有改進的情況下影響的也是全部的居民啊是不是"},{"start":291.412,"end":318.049,"text":"我想謝謝委員的提醒我們後續如果有一個比較好的規劃也許可以到彰化去開一個說明會然後去讓這些這些基農就是養雞的這些最主要的大戶的部分讓他了解有什麼樣的方式可以讓環境更衛生然後不會變成零幣作用然後立體化栽培提高它的育成效率這個部分我想我們再來規劃來提供好那我再請教第二問題今天有非常多的"},{"start":318.829,"end":334.821,"text":"委員都講到了落農其實我們知道落農的就是說牛或者是羊他們影響乳量最大的部分就是他們的飼料就是牧草"},{"start":336.282,"end":356.645,"text":"過去我們有說到希望國內的青稞玉米的產量能夠提高那你有沒有辦法做到提高到46萬公噸這個就是在我們的雜糧轉做裡面他轉青稞玉米的政策誘因要下購"},{"start":357.767,"end":365.122,"text":"那這樣的話就會變成清割玉米然後讓它有一些木草可以還有一些蘭薇草的部分也是一樣這個我們正在設計"},{"start":366.69,"end":386.997,"text":"有没有什么样的政策要因你设计你有没有跟主要的乳品供应商共同来讨论他们对于乳量据我了解他们对于乳量的控制第一个就是从它的饲料的部分"},{"start":388.237,"end":414.927,"text":"如果他們的要求裡面沒有能夠接受國內我們的青稞玉米那當然我們有非常強大的改良廠啊我們可以就是製造出來就是我們的牛能夠生產出優質乳量的時候他所需要的這個甘草嘛那為什麼他們要用國外進口的百慕達草為什麼"},{"start":417.068,"end":431.59,"text":"我想基本上我們台灣的氣候的關係我們在木茶收割以後它的乾燥跟打包有沒有它的效率比較不好而且它的濕度水分含量比較高所以很容易台灣話叫凹到有沒有它就會比較"},{"start":433.072,"end":460.153,"text":"口感或質感都比較不好所以這個部分這也會影響乳量嘛對 然後我們在續長那個什麼我們的敘事所其實已經有一些比較新進的新進的技術所以我才會說我們在第一個轉做的部分把牧草納進去如果第一個鼓勵他們去種第二個就是在乾燥打包的那個技術如果能夠讓我們的畜牧業者認同的時候那相關的相關的這些飼料的轉移就會開始進行"},{"start":461.474,"end":476.331,"text":"那所以目前還沒有辦法現在有少部分每一年都還是有少部分的國內的這些牧草進到我們的飼料系統因為我們要雜糧轉做我希望說我們對於這個我們必須要就是優化我們整個就是農作業"},{"start":477.311,"end":492.656,"text":"也希望說在大家都仰賴進口的牧草的情況下是不是能夠採用就地的牧草那這個部分我相信以我們農業部的技術是有辦法去克服那是不是能夠設下一個目標"},{"start":493.896,"end":513.769,"text":"讓我們農業部對於我們的使用國內牧草就是我們的飼養使用國內牧草能不能有一個共同的目標那這個情況下是不是然後大家共同來做那當然也需要所有的乳品業者共同的配合是不是我想第一個就是我們回去會針對"},{"start":516.471,"end":539.317,"text":"牧草的政策由於就是轉作的時候是不是有機會把這個機器人打破只要他願意種就可以得到一些獎勵然後這個部分如果有的話面積會比較多然後會再跟飼養牛的畜牧場去合作我們先找一些示範願意來做的然後去做配方的調整那可以的話我們就會大力來推動"},{"start":540.037,"end":559.792,"text":"好我希望說我們可以建立這樣的目標不然過去我們在推動一段期間都沒有就是成效的情況下未來希望可以達到目標那當然也能夠讓台灣的農地做有效的利用然後能夠達到永續的這個發展好謝謝委員提醒我們會努力謝謝好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":558,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（10時55分）謝謝主席。我想要請部長。"],["主席：有請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["謝委員衣鳯：部長早安。我想要請問一下，2018年農業部曾經決定要推動雞蛋全面洗選，希望把洗選蛋從三成提高到100%，但是這麼多年，從2018年到現在，你看全面洗選其實還沒有完全到位，你們到底有沒有想要推動，現在到底遇到什麼問題？第一個，我們現在飼養雞的雞場有沒有辦法整體的配合洗選蛋這樣子的供應系統？雞蛋上面的噴墨到底會不會造成消費者相關在食用上的疑慮，你是不是能說明清楚？"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員非常關心雞蛋洗選的部分，目前洗選的百分比大概是50%，差不多一半……"],["謝委員衣鳯：到50%是不是？從2018年到現在，從30%上升到50%。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們曾經檢討過，第一個就是洗選廠的量能，這是第一個；第二個更重要的就是，後端洗選蛋的供應量，所以我們現在一直在努力看看可不可以推展到早餐店，因為早餐店本身如果經過洗選，它是比較安全、衛生的。如果它早餐店能夠順利的用洗選蛋的時候，前端因為有需求，牧場端就會進到洗選端，所以兩個關鍵因素，一個是洗選廠的量能，洗選廠量能現在大概起來了，因為在過去幾年，我們有做協助，現在就是需求端如果拉得出來，那就會往這邊繼續努力。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以大家不喜歡用洗選蛋？大家還是喜歡傳統的買蛋，用挑的，是不是這種方式？"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以我們現在就是從市場端，包括餐廳、包括早餐店……"],["謝委員衣鳯：為什麼民眾會有這樣子的……"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在在溝通，我比較不喜歡用強制的，一下子用強制的，會有很多人反彈。"],["謝委員衣鳯：為什麼民眾會喜歡這樣子，不喜歡洗選蛋？是不是有什麼原因？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有……"],["謝委員衣鳯：是他們覺得洗選蛋噴墨會造成影響，還是……"],["陳部長駿季：價格的問題。"],["謝委員衣鳯：價格比較貴，對嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：價格的問題。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有對於我們現在養雞，大家在談寵物福利的相關問題嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：國外很流行的是放牧雞，我們在臺灣其實放牧雞方式，養雞場沒有那麼多的空間。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有那個土地……"],["謝委員衣鳯：未來我們新的、現代化的養雞場要怎麼樣能夠達到動物福利這樣子的一個設施呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們後續在推養雞場的改建或興建的時候，其實立體化的栽培是全世界一個趨勢，包括養豬場、養雞場，它立體化栽培，它的空間就有機會變大，這個部分，我想臺南已經有一個場，它已經……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你趕快來我們彰化弄一個啊！是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：我們會努力……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們彰化也是，有三分之一的雞蛋全部都是彰化來的。"],["陳部長駿季：現在彰化本身的牌照是被鎖住的，因為我們也不希望養雞場新增太快……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，但立體化呢？"],["陳部長駿季：但是改建立體化的話，我們可以來考慮，就是它立體化以後量變多了，是不是可以用其他的場類似合作的方式來處理……"],["謝委員衣鳯：而且需要現代化嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：現代化的方式，你能夠增加投資……"],["陳部長駿季：我們會融資低利貸款。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是可以結合企業的ESG相關的誘因進去？你才能促使這些飼養戶能夠去投資，投資一定是需要成本的，在這種成本沒有誘因的情況下，養雞戶是不會要去做這些相關的事情。"],["陳部長駿季：對，謝謝委員的提醒，包括ESG的導入，包括一些融資低利貸款的誘因……"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有對於環境永續、對於不影響其他周邊的住戶，這個都是我們需要改進的部分嘛！是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你沒有提供相關誘因的情況下，飼養戶怎麼會改進，沒有改進的情況下，影響的也是全部的居民啊！是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的提醒，我們後續如果有一個比較好的規劃，也許可以到彰化去開一個說明會，讓這些雞農，就是養雞的最主要大戶來了解，有什麼樣的方式可以讓環境更衛生，不會變成鄰避作用，然後立體化栽培，提高它的育成效率，這個部分我們再來規劃、來提供。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。我再請教第二個問題，今天有非常多委員都講到了酪農，其實我們知道酪農的……就是牛或是羊，影響牠們乳量最大的因素就是牠們的飼料、就是牧草，過去我們有說過希望國內青割玉米的產量能夠提高，你有沒有辦法做到提高到46萬公噸，國內有沒有辦法？"],["陳部長駿季：這個就是在我們的雜糧轉作裡面，轉青割玉米的政策誘因要下得夠，這樣就會變成青割玉米，讓他有一些牧草，還有一些狼尾草的部分也是一樣，這個我們正在設計，看有沒有什麼樣的政策誘因……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你設計時，有沒有跟主要的乳品供應商共同來討論？"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我們……"],["謝委員衣鳯：據我了解，他們對於乳量的控制，第一個就是從飼料下手，如果他們的要求裡面不能夠接受國內的青割玉米，當然我們有非常強大的改良場，可以製造出讓我們的牛能夠生產出優質乳量時所需要的乾草，那為什麼他們要用國外進口的百慕達草？為什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：基本上臺灣因為氣候的關係，我們在牧草收割以後，它的乾燥跟打包的效率會比較不好，而且它的溼度、水分含量也比較高，所以很容易折到，它的口感或質感就會比較不好，所以這個部分……"],["謝委員衣鳯：這也會影響乳量嘛？還是乳的品質？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們的畜試所其實已經有一些比較先進的技術，所以我才會說，我們在轉作的部分把牧草納進去，第一個，鼓勵他們去種，第二個，如果乾燥、打包的技術能夠讓我們的畜牧業者認同的話，相關的飼料轉移就會開始進行。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以目前還沒有辦法？"],["陳部長駿季：現在有少部分，每一年都還是有少部分的國內牧草進到我們的飼料系統裡面。"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為我們要雜糧轉作，我希望……"],["陳部長駿季：對，這部分我們來努力。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們必須要優化整個農作的情況，也希望在大家都仰賴進口牧草的情況下，是不是能夠採用就地的牧草？這個部分，我相信以我們農業部的技術是有辦法去克服的，所以是不是能夠設下一個目標，農業部對於我們使用國內牧草來飼養能不能有一個共同的目標？這個情況下，大家共同來做，當然也需要所有的乳品業者共同來配合嘛，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：是，第一個，我們回去會針對牧草的政策誘因，就是轉作的時候，看是不是有機會把這個基期年打破，只要他願意種，就可以得到一些獎勵。這個部分如果有的話，面積會比較多，然後會再跟飼養牛的畜牧場去合作，我們先找一些示範、願意來做的去做配方的調整，可以的話，我們就會大力來推動。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，我希望可以建立這樣的目標，不然過去我們推動一段期間都沒有成效，未來希望可以達到目標，當然也能夠讓臺灣的農地做有效的利用，能夠達到永續的發展。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝委員的提醒，我們會努力。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝謝衣鳯委員。","下一位請陳超明委員質詢。陳委員質詢後，休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":130,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-13","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","林岱樺","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","謝衣鳯","陳超明","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","郭昱晴","陳冠廷","張雅琳","呂玉玲"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2025-05-19"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算有關農業部及所屬主管預算凍結案等 30案；二、處理或\n審查114年度中央政府總預算有關公平交易委員會主管預算凍結案等8案","agenda_id":"1145101_00004"}}}