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\"end\": 185.263, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 185.263, \"end\": 185.283, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 185.283, \"end\": 185.303, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 185.303, \"end\": 185.363, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"傾\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 185.363, \"end\": 185.383, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 185.383, \"end\": 185.403, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 185.403, \"end\": 185.423, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 185.423, \"end\": 185.523, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 185.523, \"end\": 185.543, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 185.543, \"end\": 185.563, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 185.563, \"end\": 185.583, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 185.583, \"end\": 185.603, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 185.603, \"end\": 185.663, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 185.663, \"end\": 185.683, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 185.683, \"end\": 185.723, \"score\": 0.044}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 185.723, \"end\": 185.743, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 185.743, \"end\": 186.023, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 186.023, \"end\": 186.043, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 196.451, \"end\": 211.977, \"text\": \"對 剛剛委員提到個案我們有注意到因為我們都有做一些網路的搜查那這個個案我們有跟警方做通報那警方也有去約談相關的當事人來釐清相關的一個狀況那針對委員所提到的就不同的個案它可能有不同的背景還有不同的動機\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 196.451, \"end\": 196.631, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 196.631, \"end\": 196.751, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 196.751, \"end\": 197.011, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 197.011, \"end\": 197.151, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 197.151, \"end\": 197.332, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 197.332, \"end\": 197.472, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 197.472, \"end\": 197.652, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 197.652, \"end\": 197.772, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 197.772, \"end\": 198.032, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 198.032, \"end\": 198.152, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 198.152, \"end\": 198.252, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 198.252, \"end\": 198.372, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 198.372, \"end\": 198.492, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 198.492, \"end\": 198.652, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 198.652, \"end\": 198.732, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 198.732, \"end\": 199.052, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, 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{\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 225.566, \"end\": 226.466, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 226.466, \"end\": 226.686, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 226.686, \"end\": 227.207, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 227.207, \"end\": 227.367, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"偶\", \"start\": 227.367, \"end\": 227.767, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 227.767, \"end\": 228.067, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 228.067, \"end\": 228.187, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 228.187, \"end\": 228.527, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 228.527, \"end\": 228.648, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 228.648, \"end\": 228.948, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 228.948, \"end\": 229.168, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 229.168, \"end\": 229.568, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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\"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"背\", \"start\": 234.671, \"end\": 234.772, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 234.772, \"end\": 234.872, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 234.872, \"end\": 234.992, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"背\", \"start\": 234.992, \"end\": 235.172, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"景\", \"start\": 235.172, \"end\": 235.192, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 235.572, \"end\": 261.002, \"text\": \"那文剛所提到的偷渡案來講判斷上來看也是會有不同的狀況有的可能不能排除他是有中共揮帶刻意的襲擾但有一個部分也某種程度反應來的這些偷渡客他都是中國社會非常底層的人士有的都是臨時工那是不是也因為中共因為現在經濟比較不好而有一些偷渡客鋌而走險的狀況我們也不能夠排除所以每個個案的狀況都不太一樣那也請\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 235.572, \"end\": 235.672, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 235.672, \"end\": 235.992, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 235.992, \"end\": 236.152, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 236.152, \"end\": 236.312, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 236.312, \"end\": 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\"政府正在實施納粹主義那來正當化他的這個軍事的這個行動那其實我們都知道烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基他自己本身是猶太人其實他的這個家族成員也曾經在這個納粹大屠殺當中上神我們想說怎麼可能他是會推動這個納粹主義可是他為了要侵略這個烏克蘭所以俄羅斯就用了這樣子的藉口\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 298.67, \"end\": 298.93, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 298.93, \"end\": 299.13, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 299.13, \"end\": 299.311, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 299.311, \"end\": 299.911, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 299.911, \"end\": 300.992, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"粹\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 300.992, \"end\": 301.672, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 301.672, \"end\": 302.573, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 302.573, \"end\": 303.013, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 303.013, \"end\": 303.233, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 303.233, \"end\": 303.413, \"score\": 0.664}, 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\"可\", \"start\": 319.323, \"end\": 319.343, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 319.343, \"end\": 319.503, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 319.503, \"end\": 319.583, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 319.583, \"end\": 319.663, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 319.663, \"end\": 319.683, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"侵\", \"start\": 319.683, \"end\": 319.843, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"略\", \"start\": 319.843, \"end\": 319.863, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"烏\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 319.863, \"end\": 320.063, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"蘭\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 320.063, \"end\": 320.243, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 320.243, \"end\": 320.504, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"俄\", \"start\": 320.504, \"end\": 320.624, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"斯\", \"start\": 320.624, \"end\": 320.824, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 320.824, \"end\": 321.064, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 321.064, \"end\": 321.264, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 321.264, \"end\": 321.344, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 321.344, \"end\": 321.364, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 321.364, \"end\": 321.384, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"藉\", \"start\": 321.384, \"end\": 321.504, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 321.504, \"end\": 321.524, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 326.067, \"end\": 353.067, \"text\": \"那無獨有偶的國民黨的主席朱立倫也是在5月7號的中常會就提到說賴總統把他比作希特勒然後說賴總統在推行這些行為在野黨的行為就好像納粹的行為等等這些言論那當然我也看到有些國民黨的委員也跟進那當然這些言論都引起了德國在台協會的抗議也引起法國\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 326.067, \"end\": 326.267, \"score\": 0.636}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 326.267, \"end\": 326.587, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"獨\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 326.587, \"end\": 327.048, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"勒\", \"start\": 335.474, \"end\": 337.155, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 337.155, \"end\": 337.455, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 337.455, \"end\": 337.696, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 337.696, \"end\": 337.896, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 337.896, \"end\": 338.096, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 338.096, \"end\": 340.017, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 340.017, \"end\": 340.177, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 340.177, \"end\": 341.198, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 341.198, \"end\": 341.318, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"野\", \"start\": 341.318, \"end\": 341.418, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 341.418, \"end\": 341.618, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 341.618, 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\"我\", \"start\": 345.821, \"end\": 345.962, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 345.962, \"end\": 346.082, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 346.082, \"end\": 346.302, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 346.302, \"end\": 346.442, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 346.442, \"end\": 346.602, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 346.602, \"end\": 346.962, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 346.962, \"end\": 347.262, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 347.262, \"end\": 347.383, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 347.383, \"end\": 347.723, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 347.723, \"end\": 347.963, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 347.963, \"end\": 348.824, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 348.824, \"end\": 348.964, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", 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{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 352.566, \"end\": 352.706, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"引\", \"start\": 352.706, \"end\": 352.847, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 352.847, \"end\": 353.047, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 353.047, \"end\": 353.067, \"score\": 0.629}, {\"word\": \"國\"}]}, {\"start\": 353.974, \"end\": 378.812, \"text\": \"還有這個以色列等等國家的這個不滿那我們也知道說經濟學人今年初他有公佈2024年的民主指數在167個國家裡面台灣是排名第12而且在亞洲呢是亞洲之冠那道義上來講在定義上來講的話我們是完全的這個民主那怎麼可能這麼自由民主的國家在朱立倫的口中就變成了一個獨裁的這個國家那更可怕的是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 353.974, \"end\": 354.655, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 354.655, \"end\": 354.795, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 354.795, \"end\": 354.895, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 354.895, \"end\": 355.055, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 355.055, \"end\": 355.195, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 355.195, 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428.692, \"end\": 428.872, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 428.872, \"end\": 429.193, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 429.193, \"end\": 429.393, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 429.393, \"end\": 429.653, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"抄\", \"start\": 429.653, \"end\": 430.053, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"襲\"}, {\"word\": \"模\", \"start\": 430.053, \"end\": 430.314, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"仿\", \"start\": 430.314, \"end\": 430.334, \"score\": 0.426}]}, {\"start\": 430.774, \"end\": 456.334, \"text\": \"那俄國的一些政治作戰或認知作戰的操作那確實在整個俄烏戰爭起始之前那俄方確實有對烏克蘭的總統貼上了新納粹的標籤用這種方式來合理化俄國的軍事的行動來推翻新納粹在烏克蘭的政權那另一方面我們也注意到在戰爭發生之前那俄國也不斷地在滲透克里米亞半島\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 430.774, \"end\": 430.994, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"俄\", \"start\": 430.994, \"end\": 431.555, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 431.555, \"end\": 431.775, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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441.242, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"蘭\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 441.242, \"end\": 441.963, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"貼\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 441.963, \"end\": 442.163, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 442.163, \"end\": 442.263, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 442.263, \"end\": 442.783, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"粹\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 442.783, \"end\": 443.624, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"籤\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 443.624, \"end\": 444.004, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 444.004, \"end\": 444.204, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 444.204, \"end\": 444.505, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 444.505, \"end\": 444.725, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 444.725, \"end\": 444.905, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 444.905, \"end\": 445.425, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"俄\", \"start\": 445.425, \"end\": 445.866, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 445.866, \"end\": 446.286, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 446.286, \"end\": 446.406, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 446.406, \"end\": 446.526, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 446.526, \"end\": 447.347, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 447.347, \"end\": 447.527, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"翻\", \"start\": 447.527, \"end\": 447.807, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 447.807, \"end\": 448.608, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"粹\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 448.608, \"end\": 448.948, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"烏\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 448.948, \"end\": 449.148, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"蘭\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 449.148, \"end\": 449.268, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 449.268, \"end\": 449.929, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 449.929, \"end\": 449.989, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 449.989, \"end\": 450.009, \"score\": 0.058}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 450.009, \"end\": 450.169, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 450.169, \"end\": 450.589, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 450.589, \"end\": 450.749, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 450.749, \"end\": 450.849, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 450.849, \"end\": 451.03, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 451.03, \"end\": 451.19, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 451.19, \"end\": 451.33, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 451.33, \"end\": 451.79, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 451.79, \"end\": 452.911, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 452.911, \"end\": 453.131, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 453.131, \"end\": 453.331, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 453.331, \"end\": 453.832, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 453.832, \"end\": 453.972, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"俄\", \"start\": 453.972, \"end\": 454.272, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 454.272, \"end\": 454.392, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 454.392, \"end\": 454.692, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 454.692, \"end\": 454.812, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 454.812, \"end\": 455.253, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"滲\"}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 455.253, \"end\": 455.933, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 455.933, \"end\": 456.033, \"score\": 0.647}, {\"word\": \"里\", \"start\": 456.033, \"end\": 456.113, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"米\", \"start\": 456.113, \"end\": 456.314, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"亞\"}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 456.314, \"end\": 456.334, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"島\"}]}, {\"start\": 456.914, \"end\": 481.148, \"text\": \"那去提升克里米亞半島跟俄羅斯在經貿文化族群的融合那事實上相關的做法也可以看到中共對我們的外離島也有類似的狀況透過觸統觸容來形塑出一種好像外離島跟中共在經貿或各方面的緊密結合所以這樣的一個做法跟俄國當時在入侵烏克蘭之前的相關的政治作戰的操作它有一些雷同的地方\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 456.914, \"end\": 457.074, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 457.074, \"end\": 457.735, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 457.735, \"end\": 458.035, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 458.035, \"end\": 458.375, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 458.375, \"end\": 458.475, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"里\", \"start\": 458.475, \"end\": 458.555, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"米\", \"start\": 458.555, \"end\": 458.795, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"亞\"}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 458.795, \"end\": 459.095, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 464.138, \"end\": 464.198, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 464.198, \"end\": 464.298, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 464.298, \"end\": 465.139, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"島\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 465.139, \"end\": 465.159, \"score\": 0.069}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 465.159, \"end\": 465.499, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"似\", \"start\": 465.499, \"end\": 465.599, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 465.599, \"end\": 466.219, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 466.219, \"end\": 467.2, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"觸\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"觸\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 467.2, \"end\": 467.72, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 467.72, \"end\": 467.94, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"塑\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 472.203, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 472.203, \"end\": 472.403, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 472.403, \"end\": 472.663, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 472.663, \"end\": 473.083, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 473.083, \"end\": 473.544, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 473.544, \"end\": 473.684, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 473.684, \"end\": 473.924, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 473.924, \"end\": 474.024, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 474.024, \"end\": 474.364, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 474.364, \"end\": 474.524, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 474.524, \"end\": 474.724, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 474.724, \"end\": 474.904, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"俄\", \"start\": 474.904, \"end\": 475.705, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 475.705, \"end\": 476.205, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 476.205, \"end\": 476.365, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"侵\", \"start\": 476.365, \"end\": 476.665, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"烏\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 476.665, \"end\": 476.925, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"蘭\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 476.925, \"end\": 477.126, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 477.126, \"end\": 477.346, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 477.346, \"end\": 477.566, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 477.566, \"end\": 478.046, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 478.046, \"end\": 478.566, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 478.566, \"end\": 478.726, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 478.726, \"end\": 478.847, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"作\", 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\"end\": 515.841, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 515.841, \"end\": 515.981, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 515.981, \"end\": 516.001, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 516.001, \"end\": 516.021, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 516.021, \"end\": 516.101, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 516.101, \"end\": 516.121, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,590 --> 00:00:07,701\n請蔡局長謝謝主席羅委員長\n\n2\n00:00:08,821 --> 00:00:27,938\n蔡局長早單單今年的五月份也就是五月十五五月十六還有昨天五月二十短短一個禮拜之內就發生了這個三起的這個偷渡案件那其中很誇張的是五月十五號有一個中國男子他在抖音上面傳這個影片然後宣稱自己獨自從這個中國駕駛這個橡皮艇很多台灣海峽到這個桃園\n\n3\n00:00:34,463 --> 00:00:56,757\n然後呢他又架著這個橡皮艇呢再回到這個中國游如入這個無人之境很顯然他就是要顯示我們我們我國的這個海防的這個弱點那也要看看這個台灣的這個應變能力請問我們請問局長以上的這幾個這個偷渡案件情勢有沒有顯示又是一個灰色侵擾跟認知作戰\n\n4\n00:00:58,423 --> 00:01:12,681\n對剛剛也在跟媒體朋友做說明啦因為在520前夕我們國安局是有成立一個專案小組來監控中共不管是傳統的軍事活動海上會在洗腦資安的侵害或是正義訊息的散佈我們有專案在觀察相關的動態\n\n5\n00:01:13,402 --> 00:01:40,240\n那在海上灰色地帶灰帶洗腦的部分確實有增加的趨勢除委員剛剛所提到有偷渡案件以外包括中共海警船也在5月15跟16號兩度連續兩天有派四艘的海警船進入到金門的限制水域去進行活動那另外在海峽中線以西也有出現二三十艘的三五鐵殼船在海峽中線以西的水域在集結活動那因為現在是比較處於中共的休餘季\n\n6\n00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:59,749\n那中共竟然會讓有那麼大的數量的三、五鐵殼船在海峽中線以襲活動那我們不能排除背後有相關的政治的動機所以針對各個不同的類案那我們也跟海巡署密切的在保持溝通聯繫必須要從各個的個案或通案來檢視我們海防有沒有相關的漏洞\n\n7\n00:02:00,349 --> 00:02:15,050\n這部分海巡署在禮拜一早上10點鐘已經有對外召開記者會來說明他們後續相關海防設備的建置包括岸海、艦艇系統的建置都有一些期程規劃這部分我們再來指導跟協調海巡署來如期如止的完成相關專欄的推動\n\n8\n00:02:17,273 --> 00:02:32,094\n除了這些大大小小的事件其實在我們台灣最近也有發現就是有中國籍的女子呢拿著相機在這個國小的門口拍照那像這個的話看起來好像也不是那麼的單純\n\n9\n00:02:33,315 --> 00:02:56,936\n這個學校跟這個家長其實也是非常的擔心跟恐慌那當然這些而且也不是第1起了好像有兩所學校都曾經發生過類似這樣子的事情當然我有看到一些報導他們說可能也就是說利用一般的來自於中國的這些人可能到各地去做情搜\n\n10\n00:02:57,596 --> 00:03:06,043\n看看台灣人平常台灣社會的作息等等甚至很有可能去拍一些基礎建設譬如說便電所或醫院等等把這些全部資料傾收然後再傳到中國去會不會有這樣子的可能呢?\n\n11\n00:03:16,451 --> 00:03:31,977\n對剛剛委員提到個案我們有注意到因為我們都有做一些網路的搜查那這個個案我們有跟警方做通報那警方也有去約談相關的當事人來釐清相關的一個狀況那針對委員所提到的就不同的個案它可能有不同的背景還有不同的動機\n\n12\n00:03:32,777 --> 00:03:55,192\n那所以就本局的角度來講,我們是希望能夠做一個比較全面的一個分析,到底不同的個案有沒有反映出一個比較總體中共在背後操作的一個樣態。那不管是偷渡案,或是有相關入籍配偶在進入台灣之後的相關的一些動作,我們都會逐一的來了解每個狀況背後的背景。\n\n13\n00:03:55,572 --> 00:04:21,002\n那文剛所提到的偷渡案來講判斷上來看也是會有不同的狀況有的可能不能排除他是有中共揮帶刻意的襲擾但有一個部分也某種程度反應來的這些偷渡客他都是中國社會非常底層的人士有的都是臨時工那是不是也因為中共因為現在經濟比較不好而有一些偷渡客鋌而走險的狀況我們也不能夠排除所以每個個案的狀況都不太一樣那也請\n\n14\n00:04:22,242 --> 00:04:36,018\n委員容許我們能夠有一些時間來做不同個案在經過調查分析之後能夠了解到背後一個整個比較整體的圖像有沒有威脅到我們的國安對因為我們發現說最近這些事情這是蠻頻繁的\n\n15\n00:04:37,159 --> 00:04:57,209\n除了這些灰色的侵擾或者是這些威脅之外其實我們還看到另外一點就是說俄羅斯在侵略烏克蘭的一些情節其實也在台灣發生怎麼說呢像俄羅斯在2022年全面入侵烏克蘭的時候就是以去納粹化為名指控烏克蘭\n\n16\n00:04:58,670 --> 00:05:21,524\n政府正在實施納粹主義那來正當化他的這個軍事的這個行動那其實我們都知道烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基他自己本身是猶太人其實他的這個家族成員也曾經在這個納粹大屠殺當中上神我們想說怎麼可能他是會推動這個納粹主義可是他為了要侵略這個烏克蘭所以俄羅斯就用了這樣子的藉口\n\n17\n00:05:26,067 --> 00:05:53,067\n那無獨有偶的國民黨的主席朱立倫也是在5月7號的中常會就提到說賴總統把他比作希特勒然後說賴總統在推行這些行為在野黨的行為就好像納粹的行為等等這些言論那當然我也看到有些國民黨的委員也跟進那當然這些言論都引起了德國在台協會的抗議也引起法國\n\n18\n00:05:53,974 --> 00:06:18,812\n還有這個以色列等等國家的這個不滿那我們也知道說經濟學人今年初他有公佈2024年的民主指數在167個國家裡面台灣是排名第12而且在亞洲呢是亞洲之冠那道義上來講在定義上來講的話我們是完全的這個民主那怎麼可能這麼自由民主的國家在朱立倫的口中就變成了一個獨裁的這個國家那更可怕的是\n\n19\n00:06:19,933 --> 00:06:46,812\n緊接著5月8號這個習近平在造訪俄羅斯的時候兩國的領袖還強調要一起消滅親納粹主義所以像國內外幾乎在同個時段所發表的這個納粹說難道這也是另外一種鋪陳那是中國要親台成讓這個中國親了台灣成為成為他的這個藉口嗎以國安局的這個情質來看的話這有沒有可疑之處\n\n20\n00:06:48,593 --> 00:07:10,334\n對針對在俄烏戰爭之後那中共有沒有想要學習效法戰場上相關的一些作為我們確實有在做進一步的一個分析那一個部分是中共有沒有在效法俄軍的戰術戰法以及相關無人機的運用這是比較軍事層面我們在關注的面向那第二部分我們在關注的面向是像委員所提到的中共會不會去抄襲模仿\n\n21\n00:07:10,774 --> 00:07:36,334\n那俄國的一些政治作戰或認知作戰的操作那確實在整個俄烏戰爭起始之前那俄方確實有對烏克蘭的總統貼上了新納粹的標籤用這種方式來合理化俄國的軍事的行動來推翻新納粹在烏克蘭的政權那另一方面我們也注意到在戰爭發生之前那俄國也不斷地在滲透克里米亞半島\n\n22\n00:07:36,914 --> 00:08:01,148\n那去提升克里米亞半島跟俄羅斯在經貿文化族群的融合那事實上相關的做法也可以看到中共對我們的外離島也有類似的狀況透過觸統觸容來形塑出一種好像外離島跟中共在經貿或各方面的緊密結合所以這樣的一個做法跟俄國當時在入侵烏克蘭之前的相關的政治作戰的操作它有一些雷同的地方\n\n23\n00:08:01,488 --> 00:08:13,901\n那這部分我們會持續的來注意不管是在軍事面或政治面中共有沒有去學習俄國在俄烏戰場的一個運用的一些策略我們再持續的來做一些進一步的一個研討跟分析因為我們真的是發現說這段時間太頻繁出現類似這樣子\n\n24\n00:08:19,927 --> 00:08:36,121\n的這個狀況拿來做比較的話覺得雷同數類似的地方真的是太高了所以這部分的這部分呢還是要請國安單位還有特別的這個注意跟留心是因為這非常重要的案例二五戰爭是我們現代戰爭非常重要的案例謝謝委員提醒好謝謝以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n590\t7701\t請蔡局長謝謝主席 羅委員長\n8821\t27938\t蔡局長 早單單今年的五月份 也就是五月十五 五月十六還有昨天五月二十 短短一個禮拜之內就發生了這個三起的這個偷渡案件那其中很誇張的是五月十五號有一個中國男子 他在抖音上面傳這個影片然後宣稱自己獨自從這個中國駕駛這個橡皮艇很多台灣海峽到這個桃園\n34463\t56757\t然後呢他又架著這個橡皮艇呢再回到這個中國游如入這個無人之境很顯然他就是要顯示我們我們我國的這個海防的這個弱點那也要看看這個台灣的這個應變能力請問我們請問局長以上的這幾個這個偷渡案件情勢有沒有顯示又是一個灰色侵擾跟認知作戰\n58423\t72681\t對 剛剛也在跟媒體朋友做說明啦因為在520前夕我們國安局是有成立一個專案小組來監控中共不管是傳統的軍事活動海上會在洗腦 資安的侵害或是正義訊息的散佈我們有專案在觀察相關的動態\n73402\t100240\t那在海上灰色地帶灰帶洗腦的部分確實有增加的趨勢除委員剛剛所提到有偷渡案件以外包括中共海警船也在5月15跟16號兩度連續兩天有派四艘的海警船進入到金門的限制水域去進行活動那另外在海峽中線以西也有出現二三十艘的三五鐵殼船在海峽中線以西的水域在集結活動那因為現在是比較處於中共的休餘季\n100680\t119749\t那中共竟然會讓有那麼大的數量的三、五鐵殼船在海峽中線以襲活動那我們不能排除背後有相關的政治的動機所以針對各個不同的類案那我們也跟海巡署密切的在保持溝通聯繫必須要從各個的個案或通案來檢視我們海防有沒有相關的漏洞\n120349\t135050\t這部分海巡署在禮拜一早上10點鐘已經有對外召開記者會來說明他們後續相關海防設備的建置包括岸海、艦艇系統的建置都有一些期程規劃這部分我們再來指導跟協調海巡署來如期如止的完成相關專欄的推動\n137273\t152094\t除了這些大大小小的事件其實在我們台灣最近也有發現就是有中國籍的女子呢拿著相機在這個國小的門口拍照那像這個的話看起來好像也不是那麼的單純\n153315\t176936\t這個學校跟這個家長其實也是非常的擔心跟恐慌那當然這些 而且也不是第1起了好像有兩所學校都曾經發生過類似這樣子的事情當然我有看到一些報導 他們說可能也就是說利用一般的來自於中國的這些人可能到各地去做情搜\n177596\t186043\t看看台灣人平常台灣社會的作息等等甚至很有可能去拍一些基礎建設譬如說便電所或醫院等等把這些全部資料傾收然後再傳到中國去會不會有這樣子的可能呢?\n196451\t211977\t對 剛剛委員提到個案我們有注意到因為我們都有做一些網路的搜查那這個個案我們有跟警方做通報那警方也有去約談相關的當事人來釐清相關的一個狀況那針對委員所提到的就不同的個案它可能有不同的背景還有不同的動機\n212777\t235192\t那所以就本局的角度來講,我們是希望能夠做一個比較全面的一個分析,到底不同的個案有沒有反映出一個比較總體中共在背後操作的一個樣態。那不管是偷渡案,或是有相關入籍配偶在進入台灣之後的相關的一些動作,我們都會逐一的來了解每個狀況背後的背景。\n235572\t261002\t那文剛所提到的偷渡案來講判斷上來看也是會有不同的狀況有的可能不能排除他是有中共揮帶刻意的襲擾但有一個部分也某種程度反應來的這些偷渡客他都是中國社會非常底層的人士有的都是臨時工那是不是也因為中共因為現在經濟比較不好而有一些偷渡客鋌而走險的狀況我們也不能夠排除所以每個個案的狀況都不太一樣那也請\n262242\t276018\t委員容許我們能夠有一些時間來做不同個案在經過調查分析之後能夠了解到背後一個整個比較整體的圖像有沒有威脅到我們的國安對 因為我們發現說最近這些事情這是蠻頻繁的\n277159\t297209\t除了這些灰色的侵擾或者是這些威脅之外其實我們還看到另外一點就是說俄羅斯在侵略烏克蘭的一些情節其實也在台灣發生怎麼說呢像俄羅斯在2022年全面入侵烏克蘭的時候就是以去納粹化為名指控烏克蘭\n298670\t321524\t政府正在實施納粹主義那來正當化他的這個軍事的這個行動那其實我們都知道烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基他自己本身是猶太人其實他的這個家族成員也曾經在這個納粹大屠殺當中上神我們想說怎麼可能他是會推動這個納粹主義可是他為了要侵略這個烏克蘭所以俄羅斯就用了這樣子的藉口\n326067\t353067\t那無獨有偶的國民黨的主席朱立倫也是在5月7號的中常會就提到說賴總統把他比作希特勒然後說賴總統在推行這些行為在野黨的行為就好像納粹的行為等等這些言論那當然我也看到有些國民黨的委員也跟進那當然這些言論都引起了德國在台協會的抗議也引起法國\n353974\t378812\t還有這個以色列等等國家的這個不滿那我們也知道說經濟學人今年初他有公佈2024年的民主指數在167個國家裡面台灣是排名第12而且在亞洲呢是亞洲之冠那道義上來講在定義上來講的話我們是完全的這個民主那怎麼可能這麼自由民主的國家在朱立倫的口中就變成了一個獨裁的這個國家那更可怕的是\n379933\t406812\t緊接著5月8號這個習近平在造訪俄羅斯的時候兩國的領袖還強調要一起消滅親納粹主義所以像國內外幾乎在同個時段所發表的這個納粹說難道這也是另外一種鋪陳那是中國要親台成讓這個中國親了台灣成為成為他的這個藉口嗎以國安局的這個情質來看的話這有沒有可疑之處\n408593\t430334\t對 針對在俄烏戰爭之後那中共有沒有想要學習效法戰場上相關的一些作為我們確實有在做進一步的一個分析那一個部分是中共有沒有在效法俄軍的戰術戰法以及相關無人機的運用這是比較軍事層面我們在關注的面向那第二部分我們在關注的面向是像委員所提到的中共會不會去抄襲模仿\n430774\t456334\t那俄國的一些政治作戰或認知作戰的操作那確實在整個俄烏戰爭起始之前那俄方確實有對烏克蘭的總統貼上了新納粹的標籤用這種方式來合理化俄國的軍事的行動來推翻新納粹在烏克蘭的政權那另一方面我們也注意到在戰爭發生之前那俄國也不斷地在滲透克里米亞半島\n456914\t481148\t那去提升克里米亞半島跟俄羅斯在經貿文化族群的融合那事實上相關的做法也可以看到中共對我們的外離島也有類似的狀況透過觸統觸容來形塑出一種好像外離島跟中共在經貿或各方面的緊密結合所以這樣的一個做法跟俄國當時在入侵烏克蘭之前的相關的政治作戰的操作它有一些雷同的地方\n481488\t493901\t那這部分我們會持續的來注意不管是在軍事面或政治面中共有沒有去學習俄國在俄烏戰場的一個運用的一些策略我們再持續的來做一些進一步的一個研討跟分析因為我們真的是發現說這段時間太頻繁出現類似這樣子\n499927\t516121\t的這個狀況拿來做比較的話覺得雷同數類似的地方真的是太高了所以這部分的這部分呢還是要請國安單位還有特別的這個注意跟留心是因為這非常重要的案例二五戰爭是我們現代戰爭非常重要的案例謝謝委員提醒好謝謝以上謝謝\n","txt":"請蔡局長謝謝主席 羅委員長\n蔡局長 早單單今年的五月份 也就是五月十五 五月十六還有昨天五月二十 短短一個禮拜之內就發生了這個三起的這個偷渡案件那其中很誇張的是五月十五號有一個中國男子 他在抖音上面傳這個影片然後宣稱自己獨自從這個中國駕駛這個橡皮艇很多台灣海峽到這個桃園\n然後呢他又架著這個橡皮艇呢再回到這個中國游如入這個無人之境很顯然他就是要顯示我們我們我國的這個海防的這個弱點那也要看看這個台灣的這個應變能力請問我們請問局長以上的這幾個這個偷渡案件情勢有沒有顯示又是一個灰色侵擾跟認知作戰\n對 剛剛也在跟媒體朋友做說明啦因為在520前夕我們國安局是有成立一個專案小組來監控中共不管是傳統的軍事活動海上會在洗腦 資安的侵害或是正義訊息的散佈我們有專案在觀察相關的動態\n那在海上灰色地帶灰帶洗腦的部分確實有增加的趨勢除委員剛剛所提到有偷渡案件以外包括中共海警船也在5月15跟16號兩度連續兩天有派四艘的海警船進入到金門的限制水域去進行活動那另外在海峽中線以西也有出現二三十艘的三五鐵殼船在海峽中線以西的水域在集結活動那因為現在是比較處於中共的休餘季\n那中共竟然會讓有那麼大的數量的三、五鐵殼船在海峽中線以襲活動那我們不能排除背後有相關的政治的動機所以針對各個不同的類案那我們也跟海巡署密切的在保持溝通聯繫必須要從各個的個案或通案來檢視我們海防有沒有相關的漏洞\n這部分海巡署在禮拜一早上10點鐘已經有對外召開記者會來說明他們後續相關海防設備的建置包括岸海、艦艇系統的建置都有一些期程規劃這部分我們再來指導跟協調海巡署來如期如止的完成相關專欄的推動\n除了這些大大小小的事件其實在我們台灣最近也有發現就是有中國籍的女子呢拿著相機在這個國小的門口拍照那像這個的話看起來好像也不是那麼的單純\n這個學校跟這個家長其實也是非常的擔心跟恐慌那當然這些 而且也不是第1起了好像有兩所學校都曾經發生過類似這樣子的事情當然我有看到一些報導 他們說可能也就是說利用一般的來自於中國的這些人可能到各地去做情搜\n看看台灣人平常台灣社會的作息等等甚至很有可能去拍一些基礎建設譬如說便電所或醫院等等把這些全部資料傾收然後再傳到中國去會不會有這樣子的可能呢?\n對 剛剛委員提到個案我們有注意到因為我們都有做一些網路的搜查那這個個案我們有跟警方做通報那警方也有去約談相關的當事人來釐清相關的一個狀況那針對委員所提到的就不同的個案它可能有不同的背景還有不同的動機\n那所以就本局的角度來講,我們是希望能夠做一個比較全面的一個分析,到底不同的個案有沒有反映出一個比較總體中共在背後操作的一個樣態。那不管是偷渡案,或是有相關入籍配偶在進入台灣之後的相關的一些動作,我們都會逐一的來了解每個狀況背後的背景。\n那文剛所提到的偷渡案來講判斷上來看也是會有不同的狀況有的可能不能排除他是有中共揮帶刻意的襲擾但有一個部分也某種程度反應來的這些偷渡客他都是中國社會非常底層的人士有的都是臨時工那是不是也因為中共因為現在經濟比較不好而有一些偷渡客鋌而走險的狀況我們也不能夠排除所以每個個案的狀況都不太一樣那也請\n委員容許我們能夠有一些時間來做不同個案在經過調查分析之後能夠了解到背後一個整個比較整體的圖像有沒有威脅到我們的國安對 因為我們發現說最近這些事情這是蠻頻繁的\n除了這些灰色的侵擾或者是這些威脅之外其實我們還看到另外一點就是說俄羅斯在侵略烏克蘭的一些情節其實也在台灣發生怎麼說呢像俄羅斯在2022年全面入侵烏克蘭的時候就是以去納粹化為名指控烏克蘭\n政府正在實施納粹主義那來正當化他的這個軍事的這個行動那其實我們都知道烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基他自己本身是猶太人其實他的這個家族成員也曾經在這個納粹大屠殺當中上神我們想說怎麼可能他是會推動這個納粹主義可是他為了要侵略這個烏克蘭所以俄羅斯就用了這樣子的藉口\n那無獨有偶的國民黨的主席朱立倫也是在5月7號的中常會就提到說賴總統把他比作希特勒然後說賴總統在推行這些行為在野黨的行為就好像納粹的行為等等這些言論那當然我也看到有些國民黨的委員也跟進那當然這些言論都引起了德國在台協會的抗議也引起法國\n還有這個以色列等等國家的這個不滿那我們也知道說經濟學人今年初他有公佈2024年的民主指數在167個國家裡面台灣是排名第12而且在亞洲呢是亞洲之冠那道義上來講在定義上來講的話我們是完全的這個民主那怎麼可能這麼自由民主的國家在朱立倫的口中就變成了一個獨裁的這個國家那更可怕的是\n緊接著5月8號這個習近平在造訪俄羅斯的時候兩國的領袖還強調要一起消滅親納粹主義所以像國內外幾乎在同個時段所發表的這個納粹說難道這也是另外一種鋪陳那是中國要親台成讓這個中國親了台灣成為成為他的這個藉口嗎以國安局的這個情質來看的話這有沒有可疑之處\n對 針對在俄烏戰爭之後那中共有沒有想要學習效法戰場上相關的一些作為我們確實有在做進一步的一個分析那一個部分是中共有沒有在效法俄軍的戰術戰法以及相關無人機的運用這是比較軍事層面我們在關注的面向那第二部分我們在關注的面向是像委員所提到的中共會不會去抄襲模仿\n那俄國的一些政治作戰或認知作戰的操作那確實在整個俄烏戰爭起始之前那俄方確實有對烏克蘭的總統貼上了新納粹的標籤用這種方式來合理化俄國的軍事的行動來推翻新納粹在烏克蘭的政權那另一方面我們也注意到在戰爭發生之前那俄國也不斷地在滲透克里米亞半島\n那去提升克里米亞半島跟俄羅斯在經貿文化族群的融合那事實上相關的做法也可以看到中共對我們的外離島也有類似的狀況透過觸統觸容來形塑出一種好像外離島跟中共在經貿或各方面的緊密結合所以這樣的一個做法跟俄國當時在入侵烏克蘭之前的相關的政治作戰的操作它有一些雷同的地方\n那這部分我們會持續的來注意不管是在軍事面或政治面中共有沒有去學習俄國在俄烏戰場的一個運用的一些策略我們再持續的來做一些進一步的一個研討跟分析因為我們真的是發現說這段時間太頻繁出現類似這樣子\n的這個狀況拿來做比較的話覺得雷同數類似的地方真的是太高了所以這部分的這部分呢還是要請國安單位還有特別的這個注意跟留心是因為這非常重要的案例二五戰爭是我們現代戰爭非常重要的案例謝謝委員提醒好謝謝以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.590 --> 00:07.701\n請蔡局長謝謝主席羅委員長\n\n00:08.821 --> 00:27.938\n蔡局長早單單今年的五月份也就是五月十五五月十六還有昨天五月二十短短一個禮拜之內就發生了這個三起的這個偷渡案件那其中很誇張的是五月十五號有一個中國男子他在抖音上面傳這個影片然後宣稱自己獨自從這個中國駕駛這個橡皮艇很多台灣海峽到這個桃園\n\n00:34.463 --> 00:56.757\n然後呢他又架著這個橡皮艇呢再回到這個中國游如入這個無人之境很顯然他就是要顯示我們我們我國的這個海防的這個弱點那也要看看這個台灣的這個應變能力請問我們請問局長以上的這幾個這個偷渡案件情勢有沒有顯示又是一個灰色侵擾跟認知作戰\n\n00:58.423 --> 01:12.681\n對剛剛也在跟媒體朋友做說明啦因為在520前夕我們國安局是有成立一個專案小組來監控中共不管是傳統的軍事活動海上會在洗腦資安的侵害或是正義訊息的散佈我們有專案在觀察相關的動態\n\n01:13.402 --> 01:40.240\n那在海上灰色地帶灰帶洗腦的部分確實有增加的趨勢除委員剛剛所提到有偷渡案件以外包括中共海警船也在5月15跟16號兩度連續兩天有派四艘的海警船進入到金門的限制水域去進行活動那另外在海峽中線以西也有出現二三十艘的三五鐵殼船在海峽中線以西的水域在集結活動那因為現在是比較處於中共的休餘季\n\n01:40.680 --> 01:59.749\n那中共竟然會讓有那麼大的數量的三、五鐵殼船在海峽中線以襲活動那我們不能排除背後有相關的政治的動機所以針對各個不同的類案那我們也跟海巡署密切的在保持溝通聯繫必須要從各個的個案或通案來檢視我們海防有沒有相關的漏洞\n\n02:00.349 --> 02:15.050\n這部分海巡署在禮拜一早上10點鐘已經有對外召開記者會來說明他們後續相關海防設備的建置包括岸海、艦艇系統的建置都有一些期程規劃這部分我們再來指導跟協調海巡署來如期如止的完成相關專欄的推動\n\n02:17.273 --> 02:32.094\n除了這些大大小小的事件其實在我們台灣最近也有發現就是有中國籍的女子呢拿著相機在這個國小的門口拍照那像這個的話看起來好像也不是那麼的單純\n\n02:33.315 --> 02:56.936\n這個學校跟這個家長其實也是非常的擔心跟恐慌那當然這些而且也不是第1起了好像有兩所學校都曾經發生過類似這樣子的事情當然我有看到一些報導他們說可能也就是說利用一般的來自於中國的這些人可能到各地去做情搜\n\n02:57.596 --> 03:06.043\n看看台灣人平常台灣社會的作息等等甚至很有可能去拍一些基礎建設譬如說便電所或醫院等等把這些全部資料傾收然後再傳到中國去會不會有這樣子的可能呢?\n\n03:16.451 --> 03:31.977\n對剛剛委員提到個案我們有注意到因為我們都有做一些網路的搜查那這個個案我們有跟警方做通報那警方也有去約談相關的當事人來釐清相關的一個狀況那針對委員所提到的就不同的個案它可能有不同的背景還有不同的動機\n\n03:32.777 --> 03:55.192\n那所以就本局的角度來講,我們是希望能夠做一個比較全面的一個分析,到底不同的個案有沒有反映出一個比較總體中共在背後操作的一個樣態。那不管是偷渡案,或是有相關入籍配偶在進入台灣之後的相關的一些動作,我們都會逐一的來了解每個狀況背後的背景。\n\n03:55.572 --> 04:21.002\n那文剛所提到的偷渡案來講判斷上來看也是會有不同的狀況有的可能不能排除他是有中共揮帶刻意的襲擾但有一個部分也某種程度反應來的這些偷渡客他都是中國社會非常底層的人士有的都是臨時工那是不是也因為中共因為現在經濟比較不好而有一些偷渡客鋌而走險的狀況我們也不能夠排除所以每個個案的狀況都不太一樣那也請\n\n04:22.242 --> 04:36.018\n委員容許我們能夠有一些時間來做不同個案在經過調查分析之後能夠了解到背後一個整個比較整體的圖像有沒有威脅到我們的國安對因為我們發現說最近這些事情這是蠻頻繁的\n\n04:37.159 --> 04:57.209\n除了這些灰色的侵擾或者是這些威脅之外其實我們還看到另外一點就是說俄羅斯在侵略烏克蘭的一些情節其實也在台灣發生怎麼說呢像俄羅斯在2022年全面入侵烏克蘭的時候就是以去納粹化為名指控烏克蘭\n\n04:58.670 --> 05:21.524\n政府正在實施納粹主義那來正當化他的這個軍事的這個行動那其實我們都知道烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基他自己本身是猶太人其實他的這個家族成員也曾經在這個納粹大屠殺當中上神我們想說怎麼可能他是會推動這個納粹主義可是他為了要侵略這個烏克蘭所以俄羅斯就用了這樣子的藉口\n\n05:26.067 --> 05:53.067\n那無獨有偶的國民黨的主席朱立倫也是在5月7號的中常會就提到說賴總統把他比作希特勒然後說賴總統在推行這些行為在野黨的行為就好像納粹的行為等等這些言論那當然我也看到有些國民黨的委員也跟進那當然這些言論都引起了德國在台協會的抗議也引起法國\n\n05:53.974 --> 06:18.812\n還有這個以色列等等國家的這個不滿那我們也知道說經濟學人今年初他有公佈2024年的民主指數在167個國家裡面台灣是排名第12而且在亞洲呢是亞洲之冠那道義上來講在定義上來講的話我們是完全的這個民主那怎麼可能這麼自由民主的國家在朱立倫的口中就變成了一個獨裁的這個國家那更可怕的是\n\n06:19.933 --> 06:46.812\n緊接著5月8號這個習近平在造訪俄羅斯的時候兩國的領袖還強調要一起消滅親納粹主義所以像國內外幾乎在同個時段所發表的這個納粹說難道這也是另外一種鋪陳那是中國要親台成讓這個中國親了台灣成為成為他的這個藉口嗎以國安局的這個情質來看的話這有沒有可疑之處\n\n06:48.593 --> 07:10.334\n對針對在俄烏戰爭之後那中共有沒有想要學習效法戰場上相關的一些作為我們確實有在做進一步的一個分析那一個部分是中共有沒有在效法俄軍的戰術戰法以及相關無人機的運用這是比較軍事層面我們在關注的面向那第二部分我們在關注的面向是像委員所提到的中共會不會去抄襲模仿\n\n07:10.774 --> 07:36.334\n那俄國的一些政治作戰或認知作戰的操作那確實在整個俄烏戰爭起始之前那俄方確實有對烏克蘭的總統貼上了新納粹的標籤用這種方式來合理化俄國的軍事的行動來推翻新納粹在烏克蘭的政權那另一方面我們也注意到在戰爭發生之前那俄國也不斷地在滲透克里米亞半島\n\n07:36.914 --> 08:01.148\n那去提升克里米亞半島跟俄羅斯在經貿文化族群的融合那事實上相關的做法也可以看到中共對我們的外離島也有類似的狀況透過觸統觸容來形塑出一種好像外離島跟中共在經貿或各方面的緊密結合所以這樣的一個做法跟俄國當時在入侵烏克蘭之前的相關的政治作戰的操作它有一些雷同的地方\n\n08:01.488 --> 08:13.901\n那這部分我們會持續的來注意不管是在軍事面或政治面中共有沒有去學習俄國在俄烏戰場的一個運用的一些策略我們再持續的來做一些進一步的一個研討跟分析因為我們真的是發現說這段時間太頻繁出現類似這樣子\n\n08:19.927 --> 08:36.121\n的這個狀況拿來做比較的話覺得雷同數類似的地方真的是太高了所以這部分的這部分呢還是要請國安單位還有特別的這個注意跟留心是因為這非常重要的案例二五戰爭是我們現代戰爭非常重要的案例謝謝委員提醒好謝謝以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.59,"end":7.701,"text":"請蔡局長謝謝主席 羅委員長"},{"start":8.821,"end":27.938,"text":"蔡局長 早單單今年的五月份 也就是五月十五 五月十六還有昨天五月二十 短短一個禮拜之內就發生了這個三起的這個偷渡案件那其中很誇張的是五月十五號有一個中國男子 他在抖音上面傳這個影片然後宣稱自己獨自從這個中國駕駛這個橡皮艇很多台灣海峽到這個桃園"},{"start":34.463,"end":56.757,"text":"然後呢他又架著這個橡皮艇呢再回到這個中國游如入這個無人之境很顯然他就是要顯示我們我們我國的這個海防的這個弱點那也要看看這個台灣的這個應變能力請問我們請問局長以上的這幾個這個偷渡案件情勢有沒有顯示又是一個灰色侵擾跟認知作戰"},{"start":58.423,"end":72.681,"text":"對 剛剛也在跟媒體朋友做說明啦因為在520前夕我們國安局是有成立一個專案小組來監控中共不管是傳統的軍事活動海上會在洗腦 資安的侵害或是正義訊息的散佈我們有專案在觀察相關的動態"},{"start":73.402,"end":100.24,"text":"那在海上灰色地帶灰帶洗腦的部分確實有增加的趨勢除委員剛剛所提到有偷渡案件以外包括中共海警船也在5月15跟16號兩度連續兩天有派四艘的海警船進入到金門的限制水域去進行活動那另外在海峽中線以西也有出現二三十艘的三五鐵殼船在海峽中線以西的水域在集結活動那因為現在是比較處於中共的休餘季"},{"start":100.68,"end":119.749,"text":"那中共竟然會讓有那麼大的數量的三、五鐵殼船在海峽中線以襲活動那我們不能排除背後有相關的政治的動機所以針對各個不同的類案那我們也跟海巡署密切的在保持溝通聯繫必須要從各個的個案或通案來檢視我們海防有沒有相關的漏洞"},{"start":120.349,"end":135.05,"text":"這部分海巡署在禮拜一早上10點鐘已經有對外召開記者會來說明他們後續相關海防設備的建置包括岸海、艦艇系統的建置都有一些期程規劃這部分我們再來指導跟協調海巡署來如期如止的完成相關專欄的推動"},{"start":137.273,"end":152.094,"text":"除了這些大大小小的事件其實在我們台灣最近也有發現就是有中國籍的女子呢拿著相機在這個國小的門口拍照那像這個的話看起來好像也不是那麼的單純"},{"start":153.315,"end":176.936,"text":"這個學校跟這個家長其實也是非常的擔心跟恐慌那當然這些 而且也不是第1起了好像有兩所學校都曾經發生過類似這樣子的事情當然我有看到一些報導 他們說可能也就是說利用一般的來自於中國的這些人可能到各地去做情搜"},{"start":177.596,"end":186.043,"text":"看看台灣人平常台灣社會的作息等等甚至很有可能去拍一些基礎建設譬如說便電所或醫院等等把這些全部資料傾收然後再傳到中國去會不會有這樣子的可能呢?"},{"start":196.451,"end":211.977,"text":"對 剛剛委員提到個案我們有注意到因為我們都有做一些網路的搜查那這個個案我們有跟警方做通報那警方也有去約談相關的當事人來釐清相關的一個狀況那針對委員所提到的就不同的個案它可能有不同的背景還有不同的動機"},{"start":212.777,"end":235.192,"text":"那所以就本局的角度來講,我們是希望能夠做一個比較全面的一個分析,到底不同的個案有沒有反映出一個比較總體中共在背後操作的一個樣態。那不管是偷渡案,或是有相關入籍配偶在進入台灣之後的相關的一些動作,我們都會逐一的來了解每個狀況背後的背景。"},{"start":235.572,"end":261.002,"text":"那文剛所提到的偷渡案來講判斷上來看也是會有不同的狀況有的可能不能排除他是有中共揮帶刻意的襲擾但有一個部分也某種程度反應來的這些偷渡客他都是中國社會非常底層的人士有的都是臨時工那是不是也因為中共因為現在經濟比較不好而有一些偷渡客鋌而走險的狀況我們也不能夠排除所以每個個案的狀況都不太一樣那也請"},{"start":262.242,"end":276.018,"text":"委員容許我們能夠有一些時間來做不同個案在經過調查分析之後能夠了解到背後一個整個比較整體的圖像有沒有威脅到我們的國安對 因為我們發現說最近這些事情這是蠻頻繁的"},{"start":277.159,"end":297.209,"text":"除了這些灰色的侵擾或者是這些威脅之外其實我們還看到另外一點就是說俄羅斯在侵略烏克蘭的一些情節其實也在台灣發生怎麼說呢像俄羅斯在2022年全面入侵烏克蘭的時候就是以去納粹化為名指控烏克蘭"},{"start":298.67,"end":321.524,"text":"政府正在實施納粹主義那來正當化他的這個軍事的這個行動那其實我們都知道烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基他自己本身是猶太人其實他的這個家族成員也曾經在這個納粹大屠殺當中上神我們想說怎麼可能他是會推動這個納粹主義可是他為了要侵略這個烏克蘭所以俄羅斯就用了這樣子的藉口"},{"start":326.067,"end":353.067,"text":"那無獨有偶的國民黨的主席朱立倫也是在5月7號的中常會就提到說賴總統把他比作希特勒然後說賴總統在推行這些行為在野黨的行為就好像納粹的行為等等這些言論那當然我也看到有些國民黨的委員也跟進那當然這些言論都引起了德國在台協會的抗議也引起法國"},{"start":353.974,"end":378.812,"text":"還有這個以色列等等國家的這個不滿那我們也知道說經濟學人今年初他有公佈2024年的民主指數在167個國家裡面台灣是排名第12而且在亞洲呢是亞洲之冠那道義上來講在定義上來講的話我們是完全的這個民主那怎麼可能這麼自由民主的國家在朱立倫的口中就變成了一個獨裁的這個國家那更可怕的是"},{"start":379.933,"end":406.812,"text":"緊接著5月8號這個習近平在造訪俄羅斯的時候兩國的領袖還強調要一起消滅親納粹主義所以像國內外幾乎在同個時段所發表的這個納粹說難道這也是另外一種鋪陳那是中國要親台成讓這個中國親了台灣成為成為他的這個藉口嗎以國安局的這個情質來看的話這有沒有可疑之處"},{"start":408.593,"end":430.334,"text":"對 針對在俄烏戰爭之後那中共有沒有想要學習效法戰場上相關的一些作為我們確實有在做進一步的一個分析那一個部分是中共有沒有在效法俄軍的戰術戰法以及相關無人機的運用這是比較軍事層面我們在關注的面向那第二部分我們在關注的面向是像委員所提到的中共會不會去抄襲模仿"},{"start":430.774,"end":456.334,"text":"那俄國的一些政治作戰或認知作戰的操作那確實在整個俄烏戰爭起始之前那俄方確實有對烏克蘭的總統貼上了新納粹的標籤用這種方式來合理化俄國的軍事的行動來推翻新納粹在烏克蘭的政權那另一方面我們也注意到在戰爭發生之前那俄國也不斷地在滲透克里米亞半島"},{"start":456.914,"end":481.148,"text":"那去提升克里米亞半島跟俄羅斯在經貿文化族群的融合那事實上相關的做法也可以看到中共對我們的外離島也有類似的狀況透過觸統觸容來形塑出一種好像外離島跟中共在經貿或各方面的緊密結合所以這樣的一個做法跟俄國當時在入侵烏克蘭之前的相關的政治作戰的操作它有一些雷同的地方"},{"start":481.488,"end":493.901,"text":"那這部分我們會持續的來注意不管是在軍事面或政治面中共有沒有去學習俄國在俄烏戰場的一個運用的一些策略我們再持續的來做一些進一步的一個研討跟分析因為我們真的是發現說這段時間太頻繁出現類似這樣子"},{"start":499.927,"end":516.121,"text":"的這個狀況拿來做比較的話覺得雷同數類似的地方真的是太高了所以這部分的這部分呢還是要請國安單位還有特別的這個注意跟留心是因為這非常重要的案例二五戰爭是我們現代戰爭非常重要的案例謝謝委員提醒好謝謝以上謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":97,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時29分）謝謝主席，有請蔡局長。"],["主席：請蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，羅委員早。"],["羅委員美玲：蔡局長早。單單今年5月份，也就是5月15日、5月16日還有昨天（5月20日），短短一個禮拜內就發生3起偷渡案件，其中很誇張的是，5月15號有一名中國男子在抖音上面傳這個影片，聲稱自己獨自從中國駕駛橡皮艇橫渡臺灣海峽到桃園，然後他又駕著橡皮艇再回到中國，如入無人之境，很顯然他就是要顯示我國海防的弱點，也要看看臺灣的應變能力。請問局長，以上這幾個偷渡案件，情資有沒有顯示又是一個灰色侵擾跟認知作戰？"],["蔡局長明彥：剛剛也在跟媒體朋友說明，在520前夕，我們國安局有成立一個專案小組來監控中共，不管是傳統的軍事活動、海上灰帶襲擾、資安的侵害或是爭議訊息的散布，我們有一個專案在觀察相關的動態。在海上灰色地帶、灰帶襲擾的部分，確實有增加的趨勢，除了委員剛剛所提到有偷渡案件以外，包括中共海警船也在5月15跟16號兩度、連續兩天派4艘海警船進入金門限制水域進行活動。另外，在海峽中線以西也有出現二、三十艘三無鐵殼船，在海峽中線以西的水域集結活動。因為現在是處於中共的休漁季，中共竟然會讓那麼大數量的三無鐵殼船在海峽中線以西活動，我們不能排除背後有相關的政治動機。針對各個不同的類案，我們也跟海巡署密切的保持溝通聯繫，必須從各個個案或通案來檢視我們海防有沒有相關的漏洞。這部分海巡署在禮拜一早上10點鐘已經對外召開記者會，說明他們後續相關海防設備的建置，包括岸海監偵系統的建置，都有一些期程規劃，這部分我們再來指導跟協調海巡署如期如質的完成相關專案的推動。"],["羅委員美玲：除了這些大大小小的事件，其實在我們臺灣最近也發現有中國籍女子拿著相機在國小門口拍照。"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["羅委員美玲：這個情形看起來好像也不是那麼的單純，當然這個學校跟家長其實也是非常擔心跟恐慌，而且這也不是第一起，好像有兩所學校都曾經發生過類似的事情。我有看到一些報導，說可能是利用一般來自中國的這些人到各地做情蒐，看看臺灣人平常……臺灣社會的作息等等，甚至很有可能去拍一些基礎建設，比如說變電所或醫院等等，把這些資料全部進行情蒐，然後再傳到中國去，會不會有這樣子的可能？"],["蔡局長明彥：剛剛委員提到的個案我們有注意到，因為我們都有做一些網路的蒐查，這個個案我們有跟警方通報，警方也有約談相關當事人釐清相關的狀況。針對委員所提到的，就不同的個案，他可能有不同的背景還有不同的動機，所以就本局的角度來講，我們希望能夠做一個比較全面的分析，到底不同的個案有沒有反映出一個比較總體中共在背後操作的樣態？不管是偷渡案或是有相關陸籍配偶進入臺灣之後相關的一些動作，我們都會逐一了解狀況、背後的背景。","以委員剛剛所提到的偷渡案來講，在判斷上來看也是會有不同的狀況，有的可能不能排除他有中共灰帶刻意的襲擾，但有部分也某種程度反映來的這些偷渡客都是中國社會非常底層的人士，有的都是臨時工，是不是也因為中共現在經濟比較不好，而有一些偷渡客鋌而走險的狀況，我們也不能夠排除，所以每個個案的狀況都不太一樣，也請委員容許我們能夠有一些時間對於不同個案，經過調查分析之後能夠了解到背後整個比較整體的圖像，看有沒有威脅到我們的國安。"],["羅委員美玲：我們發現最近這些事情滿頻繁的，除了這些灰色的侵擾或者是這些威脅之外，其實我們還看到另外一點，就是俄羅斯侵略烏克蘭的一些情節其實也在臺灣發生，怎麼說呢？像俄羅斯在2022年全面入侵烏克蘭的時候就是以去納粹化為名，指控烏克蘭政府正在實施納粹主義來正當化他的軍事行動。其實我們都知道，烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基自己本身是猶太人，其實他的家族成員也曾經在納粹大屠殺當中喪生，我們想說他怎麼可能會推動納粹主義，可是為了要侵略烏克蘭，所以俄羅斯就用了這個藉口。","無獨有偶，國民黨主席朱立倫也是在5月7號的中常會提到，把賴總統比作希特勒，然後說賴總統在推行這些行為，對在野黨的行為就好像納粹的行為等等這些言論，當然我們也看到有些國民黨的委員也跟進，這些言論都引起德國在臺協會的一些抗議，也引起法國還有以色列等國家的不滿。","我們知道經濟學人今年初有公布2024年的民主指數，在167個國家裡面，臺灣是排名第十二，而且在亞洲是亞洲之冠，在定義上來講，我們是完全的民主，怎麼可能這麼自由民主的國家，在朱立倫的口中就變成一個獨裁的國家？更可怕的是，緊接著5月8號，習近平在造訪俄羅斯的時候，兩國的領袖還強調要一起消滅新納粹主義，國內外幾乎在同個時段發表的納粹說，難道這也是另外一種鋪陳？是中國要侵臺……成為中國侵略臺灣的藉口嗎？以國安局的情資來看，這有沒有可疑之處？"],["蔡局長明彥：針對俄烏戰爭之後，中共有沒有想要學習、效法戰場上相關的一些作為？我們確實有在做進一步的分析：一個部分是中共有沒有在效法俄軍的戰術、戰法，以及相關無人機的運用，這是比較軍事層面我們關注的面向；第二部分，我們關注的面向是像委員所提到的，中共會不會去抄襲、模仿俄國的一些政治作戰或認知作戰的操作？在整個俄烏戰爭起始之前，俄方確實有對烏克蘭的總統貼上新納粹的標籤，用這種方式合理化俄國的軍事行動，推翻新納粹在烏克蘭的政權。另一方面我們也注意到，在戰爭發生之前，俄國也不斷滲透克里米亞半島，提升克里米亞半島跟俄羅斯在經貿、文化、族群的融合。事實上，相關的作法也可以看到中共對我們的外離島有類似的狀況，透過促統、促融來形塑出一種好像外離島跟中共在經貿或各方面緊密結合，這樣的作法跟俄國當時入侵烏克蘭之前的相關政治作戰的操作，有一些雷同的地方，這部分我們會持續注意，不管是在軍事面或政治面，中共有沒有去學習俄國在俄烏戰場運用的一些策略，我們再來持續做進一步的研討跟分析。"],["羅委員美玲：我們真的發現這段時間太頻繁出現類似這樣的狀況，若拿來做比較的話，雷同處、類似的地方真的太高了，所以這部分還是請國安單位要特別注意跟留心。"],["蔡局長明彥：好，會的，因為這是非常重要的案例，俄烏戰爭是我們現代戰爭非常重要的案例，謝謝委員提醒。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，謝謝。"],["蔡局長明彥：我們來注意，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員。接下來請陳俊宇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":42,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-16","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王定宇","林憶君","陳培瑜","陳永康"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國家安全局預算凍結案等24案","agenda_id":"1145201_00001"}}}