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643.506, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 643.506, \"end\": 643.666, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 643.666, \"end\": 643.686, \"score\": 0.561}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,409 --> 00:00:26,617\n好,謝謝主席,我們有請蔡局長請蔡局長好,局長早局長,我們這幾天看到中共許多搶灘的行為,偷渡那剛剛您也大概回覆了我們羅委員的部分\n\n2\n00:00:26,997 --> 00:00:52,003\n那針對這個所發生的這些偷渡事件尤其是登陸地點都挑在紅色海灘那他們最主要的目的是要收集情報還是要作為對台的這種心理作戰認知作戰的一個工具還是他們有其他的目的那另外就是剛剛那個我們有提到說他們是搭乘這種橡皮艇\n\n3\n00:00:53,303 --> 00:01:08,029\n那我也很好奇,什麼樣的橡皮艇可以橫跨這個台灣海峽這麼長的距離而且考量到這個油料的補給的相關問題那到底是橡皮艇直達,或是說中間有船隻接駁\n\n4\n00:01:09,729 --> 00:01:33,030\n這個問題我們是不是有去深入了解對於這方面那個局長您的看法是怎樣這大概分兩個部分啦一個部分是動機面一個是它相關實際的作為面那動機面的部分大概不能排除各種的可能性我剛剛也跟羅委員在跟他做說明跟報告那有可能是刻意的操作也就是挑選這些紅色的海灘比較容易登陸的地點\n\n5\n00:01:33,890 --> 00:01:53,940\n來進行必要的一個測試那同時也透過這種比較微型的小艇因為雷達上比較不好徵收來測試我們相關海防跟應變的能力以及上漢之後我們的應儲的機制這種的可能性不能排除那第二部分是在具體的作為的部分那因為在具體作為的部分我們必須要去分析到它的小艇\n\n6\n00:01:54,520 --> 00:02:10,559\n所能夠搭乘的油料它的航程航線的設計那有沒有可能能夠在相關的油料之下來達到直接到台灣的一個目的那另外一個可能性是委員提到的中間是不是有接駁的可能性那這部分要透過調查比如說去收集\n\n7\n00:02:10,979 --> 00:02:29,946\n他的船艇上有沒有其他的生物跡證除了艇上的人員以外有沒有其他人員的留下來的生物跡證那同時也要去比對他的數位的軌跡包括他的手機以及他的那個小艇有沒有外掛或懸吊因為大船外掛懸吊所留下來的痕跡\n\n8\n00:02:30,626 --> 00:02:55,001\n所以很多的細節必須要做進一步的查證跟比對那這部分海巡署都有在做相關的一個瞭解那只要案況有比較清楚的話看能不能適時對外公布因為實際上相關案子都已經細簡在整版那從這幾個案子看起來我們的這個海岸巡防跟我們這個監測的這些能力是不是有破洞\n\n9\n00:02:56,145 --> 00:03:12,835\n對我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在說明就是說有這麼多的個案我們除了每一個個案去了解剛剛跟委員說明的實際的細部的狀況釐清他的動機跟他的行為以外那通案來看反沾到底我們的海防有沒有相關的一個漏洞\n\n10\n00:03:13,215 --> 00:03:30,051\n那這部分我事實上前兩天在案發之後也跟海巡署的張署長有通話做一些討論那透過反詹的方式是不是我們在岸際相關巡查人員的部署還有要加強的地方那另外在硬體設備不管是岸海的監偵設備的部分\n\n11\n00:03:31,272 --> 00:03:45,494\n是不是要持續的來加強建構那海巡署目前看起來包括在岸際的紅花線熱行象儀正不斷的在便利預算來徵購那我應該也注意到昨天也有兩位入籍人士跑到金門的二膽島去\n\n12\n00:03:46,516 --> 00:04:03,176\n那個發揮的作用就是相關的紅外線的影像有即時掌握登島的動作所以假如台灣本島也能夠建置比較完整的相關的暗房系統的話我相信減少內岸的發生應該會比較容易有一個充分的能量好這部分再請局長持續關心\n\n13\n00:04:05,999 --> 00:04:28,015\n昨天是我們賴總統就職一週年有許多的民眾關心中共是否會有大動作但是上次局長您也提及中共在相關的演習不但啟動的速度快而且還可以把例行性的演習拼湊在一起譬如海峽雷霆的2025A結合到北部\n\n14\n00:04:29,655 --> 00:04:54,623\n這個戰區和山東縣的這個遠海長航及聯合戰備警巡拼湊在一起變成針對台灣的一個演習那不論是中共在近幾天所實施的聯合戰備的這個警巡或是周邊其他涉及的演習有可能下一步他們拼湊成的這種大型的軍演我們國安局是否已經有觀察到相關的一個意向\n\n15\n00:04:55,564 --> 00:05:10,960\n對,就上次跟委員在報告討論的時候有提到中共他們現在由訓轉演的能量不斷地在強化也就是透過例行的訓練的活動把它整合拼湊成一個對台灣比較有針對性的演訓的一個活動\n\n16\n00:05:11,340 --> 00:05:36,161\n那這方面我們有在注意那以520之前確實這樣的狀況有在發生我剛才跟媒體朋友跟羅偉文在說明的是包括海上揮帶部分動作比較多包括海警船進入到金門的水域5月15號跟5月16號另外在5月11號跟5月18號中共也啟動他的聯合戰備警訊那這部分國防部都有對外來進行說明所以可能在520前夕我們有看到\n\n17\n00:05:36,801 --> 00:05:55,309\n跟委員報告上次的內容一樣就是透過這些日常的訓練活動來在520之前有一些密集的一些動作來進行某種程度的施壓我們再來持續來注意後續這幾天的相關發展因為他去年是在5月23、24有一個大型的軍演\n\n18\n00:05:56,269 --> 00:06:14,984\n因為現在今天是5月21日所以這幾天可能會不會有動作我也請我們國安單位可以持續關注另外在近日內也有日本的防衛省公布包括解放軍的兩棲攻擊艦還有綜合登陸艦等在台灣東部海域實施演訓結合近期的這種侵擾的行為\n\n19\n00:06:23,683 --> 00:06:38,323\n推測這個接下來中共重點對台的這個演訓項目大概會是什麼是否會針對兩棲登陸的作戰演習那這方面我們有沒有掌握相關的情緒有針對剛委所提到的日方有公佈\n\n20\n00:06:39,665 --> 00:07:03,816\n中共的兩棲攻擊艦目前也有一個編隊在西太平洋的地方來活動那它也是比較屬於例行的遠海長航的一個訓練活動但可以注意到的是在5月18號的剛剛各位提到的聯合戰備警巡那中共他是有相關的反潛機跟無人機飛到西太平洋跟這一個編隊做一些演訓的互動\n\n21\n00:07:05,096 --> 00:07:22,511\n這也是跟委員所提到的中共它現在的做法比較像是由訓轉演的這一種演習的規劃會變成是我們關注的焦點委員提到兩棲登陸會不會是未來的演訓重點主要原因因為接下來這幾個月份就是中共兩棲部隊演訓的熱季\n\n22\n00:07:24,312 --> 00:07:49,210\n所以他會不會再有這種訓練活動來結合到認知作戰的操作對我們形成一種軍事的外在壓力那這些是我們後續國安局跟我們情報團隊會關注的重點好那上次局長我也跟您請教過中共的這個領導階層近期因為這個貪腐的部分被整肅那前幾天媒體也披露中共的軍委委員這個張申明\n\n23\n00:07:50,971 --> 00:08:05,027\n已經接替苗華主管政治工作部甚至不排除會兼任主任有關相關的報導當中所提及的人事變動我們國安局是不是有掌握相關的情質\n\n24\n00:08:05,948 --> 00:08:20,981\n中共軍方高層遭到這一波的整肅我們一起再關注因為原來在去年前年的整肅是集中在裝備部門那這次整肅看起來是聚焦在政工部門跟作戰部門\n\n25\n00:08:21,581 --> 00:08:37,615\n特別軍委會裡面包括副主席何偉東以及剛剛委員所提到政工部門的苗華都遭到了相關的一個調查那張聲明會被傳言是不是去接掌政工部門是因為政工部門的活動發現了有張聲明因為他是軍委的那個軍紀委\n\n26\n00:08:38,956 --> 00:08:57,476\n竟然也去出席所以才會有相關媒體的推論有沒有可能由張聲敏來接掌政工部門那這部分我們會持續的來注意但整體的中共中央軍委會的結構確實出現了一些問題歷來沒有缺源那麼多的一個狀況因為除了李尚福被\n\n27\n00:08:58,917 --> 00:09:17,493\n撤職調查以外那現在又有苗華被調查然後何偉東也被調查所以軍委裡面現在只剩下四位包括習近平而四位裡面除了張又俠跟總參的劉振利有作戰背景以外接下來剩下的就是只有那個軍紀委張聲明所以整個軍委會的結構作戰將領目前是\n\n28\n00:09:22,377 --> 00:09:45,541\n處在高度懸缺的狀況這是我們在判斷中共在短期內遇到中共高層軍方將領懸缺的狀況他可能要由嚴轉戰的可能性比較沒有那麼大我看外國的相關分析研究機構也有這樣的觀察那重點會在我剛跟委員說明的由馴轉嚴的可能性會比較多這大概是我們整體的一個判斷\n\n29\n00:09:46,061 --> 00:10:02,306\n那這個中共的領導階層這種異動啊對我們台灣的這個中國對台灣的相關工作的規劃會不會有什麼影響?對我剛剛跟委員說明的就是因為他現在作戰系統的降臨幾乎處在懸缺的狀況所以要由延轉戰\n\n30\n00:10:03,966 --> 00:10:29,850\n一個實際的戰爭的可能性短期之內比較沒有那麼可能這大概是我們國際上普遍的判斷但是由訓轉演一般的訓練轉成針對性的演習這一部分那大概是這一陣子看到主要的重點那結合到人事的變化還有整肅用這方面來說明也可以說明到他們現在重點放在這個所謂的由訓轉演透過日常的訓練來讓解放軍不要去花那麼多心思\n\n31\n00:10:30,410 --> 00:10:43,686\n注意到政治整肅的問題而能夠更聚焦在軍事的訓練那這部分就可以讓軍心比較不會那麼浮動這大概是我們的解讀好謝謝局長那也請我們國安單位持續關注好謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n409\t26617\t好,謝謝主席,我們有請蔡局長請蔡局長好,局長早局長,我們這幾天看到中共許多搶灘的行為,偷渡那剛剛您也大概回覆了我們羅委員的部分\n26997\t52003\t那針對這個所發生的這些偷渡事件尤其是登陸地點都挑在紅色海灘那他們最主要的目的是要收集情報還是要作為對台的這種心理作戰認知作戰的一個工具還是他們有其他的目的那另外就是剛剛那個我們有提到說他們是搭乘這種橡皮艇\n53303\t68029\t那我也很好奇,什麼樣的橡皮艇可以橫跨這個台灣海峽這麼長的距離而且考量到這個油料的補給的相關問題那到底是橡皮艇直達,或是說中間有船隻接駁\n69729\t93030\t這個問題我們是不是有去深入了解對於這方面 那個局長您的看法是怎樣這大概分兩個部分啦 一個部分是動機面 一個是它相關實際的作為面那動機面的部分大概不能排除各種的可能性我剛剛也跟羅委員在跟他做說明跟報告那有可能是刻意的操作 也就是挑選這些紅色的海灘比較容易登陸的地點\n93890\t113940\t來進行必要的一個測試那同時也透過這種比較微型的小艇因為雷達上比較不好徵收來測試我們相關海防跟應變的能力以及上漢之後我們的應儲的機制這種的可能性不能排除那第二部分是在具體的作為的部分那因為在具體作為的部分我們必須要去分析到它的小艇\n114520\t130559\t所能夠搭乘的油料它的航程航線的設計那有沒有可能能夠在相關的油料之下來達到直接到台灣的一個目的那另外一個可能性是委員提到的中間是不是有接駁的可能性那這部分要透過調查比如說去收集\n130979\t149946\t他的船艇上有沒有其他的生物跡證除了艇上的人員以外有沒有其他人員的留下來的生物跡證那同時也要去比對他的數位的軌跡包括他的手機以及他的那個小艇有沒有外掛或懸吊因為大船外掛懸吊所留下來的痕跡\n150626\t175001\t所以很多的細節必須要做進一步的查證跟比對那這部分海巡署都有在做相關的一個瞭解那只要案況有比較清楚的話看能不能適時對外公布因為實際上相關案子都已經細簡在整版那從這幾個案子看起來我們的這個海岸巡防跟我們這個監測的這些能力是不是有破洞\n176145\t192835\t對 我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在說明就是說有這麼多的個案我們除了每一個個案去了解剛剛跟委員說明的實際的細部的狀況釐清他的動機跟他的行為以外那通案來看反沾到底我們的海防有沒有相關的一個漏洞\n193215\t210051\t那這部分我事實上前兩天在案發之後也跟海巡署的張署長有通話做一些討論那透過反詹的方式是不是我們在岸際相關巡查人員的部署還有要加強的地方那另外在硬體設備不管是岸海的監偵設備的部分\n211272\t225494\t是不是要持續的來加強建構那海巡署目前看起來包括在岸際的紅花線熱行象儀正不斷的在便利預算來徵購那我應該也注意到昨天也有兩位入籍人士跑到金門的二膽島去\n226516\t243176\t那個發揮的作用就是相關的紅外線的影像有即時掌握登島的動作所以假如台灣本島也能夠建置比較完整的相關的暗房系統的話我相信減少內岸的發生應該會比較容易有一個充分的能量好 這部分再請局長持續關心\n245999\t268015\t昨天是我們賴總統就職一週年有許多的民眾關心中共是否會有大動作但是上次局長您也提及中共在相關的演習不但啟動的速度快而且還可以把例行性的演習拼湊在一起譬如海峽雷霆的2025A結合到北部\n269655\t294623\t這個戰區和山東縣的這個遠海長航及聯合戰備警巡拼湊在一起變成針對台灣的一個演習那不論是中共在近幾天所實施的聯合戰備的這個警巡或是周邊其他涉及的演習有可能下一步他們拼湊成的這種大型的軍演我們國安局是否已經有觀察到相關的一個意向\n295564\t310960\t對,就上次跟委員在報告討論的時候有提到中共他們現在由訓轉演的能量不斷地在強化也就是透過例行的訓練的活動把它整合拼湊成一個對台灣比較有針對性的演訓的一個活動\n311340\t336161\t那這方面我們有在注意那以520之前確實這樣的狀況有在發生我剛才跟媒體朋友跟羅偉文在說明的是包括海上揮帶部分動作比較多包括海警船進入到金門的水域5月15號跟5月16號另外在5月11號跟5月18號中共也啟動他的聯合戰備警訊那這部分國防部都有對外來進行說明所以可能在520前夕我們有看到\n336801\t355309\t跟委員報告上次的內容一樣就是透過這些日常的訓練活動來在520之前有一些密集的一些動作來進行某種程度的施壓我們再來持續來注意後續這幾天的相關發展因為他去年是在5月23、24有一個大型的軍演\n356269\t374984\t因為現在今天是5月21日所以這幾天可能會不會有動作我也請我們國安單位可以持續關注另外在近日內也有日本的防衛省公布包括解放軍的兩棲攻擊艦還有綜合登陸艦等在台灣東部海域實施演訓結合近期的這種侵擾的行為\n383683\t398323\t推測這個接下來 中共重點對台的這個演訓項目大概會是什麼 是否會針對兩棲登陸的作戰演習那這方面我們有沒有掌握相關的情緒有 針對剛委所提到的 日方有公佈\n399665\t423816\t中共的兩棲攻擊艦目前也有一個編隊在西太平洋的地方來活動那它也是比較屬於例行的遠海長航的一個訓練活動但可以注意到的是在5月18號的剛剛各位提到的聯合戰備警巡那中共他是有相關的反潛機跟無人機飛到西太平洋跟這一個編隊做一些演訓的互動\n425096\t442511\t這也是跟委員所提到的中共它現在的做法比較像是由訓轉演的這一種演習的規劃會變成是我們關注的焦點委員提到兩棲登陸會不會是未來的演訓重點主要原因因為接下來這幾個月份就是中共兩棲部隊演訓的熱季\n444312\t469210\t所以他會不會再有這種訓練活動來結合到認知作戰的操作對我們形成一種軍事的外在壓力那這些是我們後續國安局跟我們情報團隊會關注的重點好 那上次局長我也跟您請教過中共的這個領導階層近期因為這個貪腐的部分被整肅那前幾天媒體也披露中共的軍委委員這個張申明\n470971\t485027\t已經接替苗華主管政治工作部甚至不排除會兼任主任有關相關的報導當中所提及的人事變動我們國安局是不是有掌握相關的情質\n485948\t500981\t中共軍方高層遭到這一波的整肅我們一起再關注因為原來在去年前年的整肅是集中在裝備部門那這次整肅看起來是聚焦在政工部門跟作戰部門\n501581\t517615\t特別軍委會裡面包括副主席何偉東以及剛剛委員所提到政工部門的苗華都遭到了相關的一個調查那張聲明會被傳言是不是去接掌政工部門是因為政工部門的活動發現了有張聲明因為他是軍委的那個軍紀委\n518956\t537476\t竟然也去出席所以才會有相關媒體的推論有沒有可能由張聲敏來接掌政工部門那這部分我們會持續的來注意但整體的中共中央軍委會的結構確實出現了一些問題歷來沒有缺源那麼多的一個狀況因為除了李尚福被\n538917\t557493\t撤職調查以外那現在又有苗華被調查然後何偉東也被調查所以軍委裡面現在只剩下四位包括習近平而四位裡面除了張又俠跟總參的劉振利有作戰背景以外接下來剩下的就是只有那個軍紀委張聲明所以整個軍委會的結構作戰將領目前是\n562377\t585541\t處在高度懸缺的狀況這是我們在判斷中共在短期內遇到中共高層軍方將領懸缺的狀況他可能要由嚴轉戰的可能性比較沒有那麼大我看外國的相關分析研究機構也有這樣的觀察那重點會在我剛跟委員說明的由馴轉嚴的可能性會比較多這大概是我們整體的一個判斷\n586061\t602306\t那這個中共的領導階層這種異動啊對我們台灣的這個中國對台灣的相關工作的規劃會不會有什麼影響?對我剛剛跟委員說明的就是因為他現在作戰系統的降臨幾乎處在懸缺的狀況所以要由延轉戰\n603966\t629850\t一個實際的戰爭的可能性短期之內比較沒有那麼可能這大概是我們國際上普遍的判斷但是由訓轉演一般的訓練轉成針對性的演習這一部分那大概是這一陣子看到主要的重點那結合到人事的變化還有整肅用這方面來說明也可以說明到他們現在重點放在這個所謂的由訓轉演透過日常的訓練來讓解放軍不要去花那麼多心思\n630410\t643686\t注意到政治整肅的問題而能夠更聚焦在軍事的訓練那這部分就可以讓軍心比較不會那麼浮動這大概是我們的解讀好 謝謝局長那也請我們國安單位持續關注好 謝謝主席謝謝\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席,我們有請蔡局長請蔡局長好,局長早局長,我們這幾天看到中共許多搶灘的行為,偷渡那剛剛您也大概回覆了我們羅委員的部分\n那針對這個所發生的這些偷渡事件尤其是登陸地點都挑在紅色海灘那他們最主要的目的是要收集情報還是要作為對台的這種心理作戰認知作戰的一個工具還是他們有其他的目的那另外就是剛剛那個我們有提到說他們是搭乘這種橡皮艇\n那我也很好奇,什麼樣的橡皮艇可以橫跨這個台灣海峽這麼長的距離而且考量到這個油料的補給的相關問題那到底是橡皮艇直達,或是說中間有船隻接駁\n這個問題我們是不是有去深入了解對於這方面 那個局長您的看法是怎樣這大概分兩個部分啦 一個部分是動機面 一個是它相關實際的作為面那動機面的部分大概不能排除各種的可能性我剛剛也跟羅委員在跟他做說明跟報告那有可能是刻意的操作 也就是挑選這些紅色的海灘比較容易登陸的地點\n來進行必要的一個測試那同時也透過這種比較微型的小艇因為雷達上比較不好徵收來測試我們相關海防跟應變的能力以及上漢之後我們的應儲的機制這種的可能性不能排除那第二部分是在具體的作為的部分那因為在具體作為的部分我們必須要去分析到它的小艇\n所能夠搭乘的油料它的航程航線的設計那有沒有可能能夠在相關的油料之下來達到直接到台灣的一個目的那另外一個可能性是委員提到的中間是不是有接駁的可能性那這部分要透過調查比如說去收集\n他的船艇上有沒有其他的生物跡證除了艇上的人員以外有沒有其他人員的留下來的生物跡證那同時也要去比對他的數位的軌跡包括他的手機以及他的那個小艇有沒有外掛或懸吊因為大船外掛懸吊所留下來的痕跡\n所以很多的細節必須要做進一步的查證跟比對那這部分海巡署都有在做相關的一個瞭解那只要案況有比較清楚的話看能不能適時對外公布因為實際上相關案子都已經細簡在整版那從這幾個案子看起來我們的這個海岸巡防跟我們這個監測的這些能力是不是有破洞\n對 我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在說明就是說有這麼多的個案我們除了每一個個案去了解剛剛跟委員說明的實際的細部的狀況釐清他的動機跟他的行為以外那通案來看反沾到底我們的海防有沒有相關的一個漏洞\n那這部分我事實上前兩天在案發之後也跟海巡署的張署長有通話做一些討論那透過反詹的方式是不是我們在岸際相關巡查人員的部署還有要加強的地方那另外在硬體設備不管是岸海的監偵設備的部分\n是不是要持續的來加強建構那海巡署目前看起來包括在岸際的紅花線熱行象儀正不斷的在便利預算來徵購那我應該也注意到昨天也有兩位入籍人士跑到金門的二膽島去\n那個發揮的作用就是相關的紅外線的影像有即時掌握登島的動作所以假如台灣本島也能夠建置比較完整的相關的暗房系統的話我相信減少內岸的發生應該會比較容易有一個充分的能量好 這部分再請局長持續關心\n昨天是我們賴總統就職一週年有許多的民眾關心中共是否會有大動作但是上次局長您也提及中共在相關的演習不但啟動的速度快而且還可以把例行性的演習拼湊在一起譬如海峽雷霆的2025A結合到北部\n這個戰區和山東縣的這個遠海長航及聯合戰備警巡拼湊在一起變成針對台灣的一個演習那不論是中共在近幾天所實施的聯合戰備的這個警巡或是周邊其他涉及的演習有可能下一步他們拼湊成的這種大型的軍演我們國安局是否已經有觀察到相關的一個意向\n對,就上次跟委員在報告討論的時候有提到中共他們現在由訓轉演的能量不斷地在強化也就是透過例行的訓練的活動把它整合拼湊成一個對台灣比較有針對性的演訓的一個活動\n那這方面我們有在注意那以520之前確實這樣的狀況有在發生我剛才跟媒體朋友跟羅偉文在說明的是包括海上揮帶部分動作比較多包括海警船進入到金門的水域5月15號跟5月16號另外在5月11號跟5月18號中共也啟動他的聯合戰備警訊那這部分國防部都有對外來進行說明所以可能在520前夕我們有看到\n跟委員報告上次的內容一樣就是透過這些日常的訓練活動來在520之前有一些密集的一些動作來進行某種程度的施壓我們再來持續來注意後續這幾天的相關發展因為他去年是在5月23、24有一個大型的軍演\n因為現在今天是5月21日所以這幾天可能會不會有動作我也請我們國安單位可以持續關注另外在近日內也有日本的防衛省公布包括解放軍的兩棲攻擊艦還有綜合登陸艦等在台灣東部海域實施演訓結合近期的這種侵擾的行為\n推測這個接下來 中共重點對台的這個演訓項目大概會是什麼 是否會針對兩棲登陸的作戰演習那這方面我們有沒有掌握相關的情緒有 針對剛委所提到的 日方有公佈\n中共的兩棲攻擊艦目前也有一個編隊在西太平洋的地方來活動那它也是比較屬於例行的遠海長航的一個訓練活動但可以注意到的是在5月18號的剛剛各位提到的聯合戰備警巡那中共他是有相關的反潛機跟無人機飛到西太平洋跟這一個編隊做一些演訓的互動\n這也是跟委員所提到的中共它現在的做法比較像是由訓轉演的這一種演習的規劃會變成是我們關注的焦點委員提到兩棲登陸會不會是未來的演訓重點主要原因因為接下來這幾個月份就是中共兩棲部隊演訓的熱季\n所以他會不會再有這種訓練活動來結合到認知作戰的操作對我們形成一種軍事的外在壓力那這些是我們後續國安局跟我們情報團隊會關注的重點好 那上次局長我也跟您請教過中共的這個領導階層近期因為這個貪腐的部分被整肅那前幾天媒體也披露中共的軍委委員這個張申明\n已經接替苗華主管政治工作部甚至不排除會兼任主任有關相關的報導當中所提及的人事變動我們國安局是不是有掌握相關的情質\n中共軍方高層遭到這一波的整肅我們一起再關注因為原來在去年前年的整肅是集中在裝備部門那這次整肅看起來是聚焦在政工部門跟作戰部門\n特別軍委會裡面包括副主席何偉東以及剛剛委員所提到政工部門的苗華都遭到了相關的一個調查那張聲明會被傳言是不是去接掌政工部門是因為政工部門的活動發現了有張聲明因為他是軍委的那個軍紀委\n竟然也去出席所以才會有相關媒體的推論有沒有可能由張聲敏來接掌政工部門那這部分我們會持續的來注意但整體的中共中央軍委會的結構確實出現了一些問題歷來沒有缺源那麼多的一個狀況因為除了李尚福被\n撤職調查以外那現在又有苗華被調查然後何偉東也被調查所以軍委裡面現在只剩下四位包括習近平而四位裡面除了張又俠跟總參的劉振利有作戰背景以外接下來剩下的就是只有那個軍紀委張聲明所以整個軍委會的結構作戰將領目前是\n處在高度懸缺的狀況這是我們在判斷中共在短期內遇到中共高層軍方將領懸缺的狀況他可能要由嚴轉戰的可能性比較沒有那麼大我看外國的相關分析研究機構也有這樣的觀察那重點會在我剛跟委員說明的由馴轉嚴的可能性會比較多這大概是我們整體的一個判斷\n那這個中共的領導階層這種異動啊對我們台灣的這個中國對台灣的相關工作的規劃會不會有什麼影響?對我剛剛跟委員說明的就是因為他現在作戰系統的降臨幾乎處在懸缺的狀況所以要由延轉戰\n一個實際的戰爭的可能性短期之內比較沒有那麼可能這大概是我們國際上普遍的判斷但是由訓轉演一般的訓練轉成針對性的演習這一部分那大概是這一陣子看到主要的重點那結合到人事的變化還有整肅用這方面來說明也可以說明到他們現在重點放在這個所謂的由訓轉演透過日常的訓練來讓解放軍不要去花那麼多心思\n注意到政治整肅的問題而能夠更聚焦在軍事的訓練那這部分就可以讓軍心比較不會那麼浮動這大概是我們的解讀好 謝謝局長那也請我們國安單位持續關注好 謝謝主席謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.409 --> 00:26.617\n好,謝謝主席,我們有請蔡局長請蔡局長好,局長早局長,我們這幾天看到中共許多搶灘的行為,偷渡那剛剛您也大概回覆了我們羅委員的部分\n\n00:26.997 --> 00:52.003\n那針對這個所發生的這些偷渡事件尤其是登陸地點都挑在紅色海灘那他們最主要的目的是要收集情報還是要作為對台的這種心理作戰認知作戰的一個工具還是他們有其他的目的那另外就是剛剛那個我們有提到說他們是搭乘這種橡皮艇\n\n00:53.303 --> 01:08.029\n那我也很好奇,什麼樣的橡皮艇可以橫跨這個台灣海峽這麼長的距離而且考量到這個油料的補給的相關問題那到底是橡皮艇直達,或是說中間有船隻接駁\n\n01:09.729 --> 01:33.030\n這個問題我們是不是有去深入了解對於這方面那個局長您的看法是怎樣這大概分兩個部分啦一個部分是動機面一個是它相關實際的作為面那動機面的部分大概不能排除各種的可能性我剛剛也跟羅委員在跟他做說明跟報告那有可能是刻意的操作也就是挑選這些紅色的海灘比較容易登陸的地點\n\n01:33.890 --> 01:53.940\n來進行必要的一個測試那同時也透過這種比較微型的小艇因為雷達上比較不好徵收來測試我們相關海防跟應變的能力以及上漢之後我們的應儲的機制這種的可能性不能排除那第二部分是在具體的作為的部分那因為在具體作為的部分我們必須要去分析到它的小艇\n\n01:54.520 --> 02:10.559\n所能夠搭乘的油料它的航程航線的設計那有沒有可能能夠在相關的油料之下來達到直接到台灣的一個目的那另外一個可能性是委員提到的中間是不是有接駁的可能性那這部分要透過調查比如說去收集\n\n02:10.979 --> 02:29.946\n他的船艇上有沒有其他的生物跡證除了艇上的人員以外有沒有其他人員的留下來的生物跡證那同時也要去比對他的數位的軌跡包括他的手機以及他的那個小艇有沒有外掛或懸吊因為大船外掛懸吊所留下來的痕跡\n\n02:30.626 --> 02:55.001\n所以很多的細節必須要做進一步的查證跟比對那這部分海巡署都有在做相關的一個瞭解那只要案況有比較清楚的話看能不能適時對外公布因為實際上相關案子都已經細簡在整版那從這幾個案子看起來我們的這個海岸巡防跟我們這個監測的這些能力是不是有破洞\n\n02:56.145 --> 03:12.835\n對我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在說明就是說有這麼多的個案我們除了每一個個案去了解剛剛跟委員說明的實際的細部的狀況釐清他的動機跟他的行為以外那通案來看反沾到底我們的海防有沒有相關的一個漏洞\n\n03:13.215 --> 03:30.051\n那這部分我事實上前兩天在案發之後也跟海巡署的張署長有通話做一些討論那透過反詹的方式是不是我們在岸際相關巡查人員的部署還有要加強的地方那另外在硬體設備不管是岸海的監偵設備的部分\n\n03:31.272 --> 03:45.494\n是不是要持續的來加強建構那海巡署目前看起來包括在岸際的紅花線熱行象儀正不斷的在便利預算來徵購那我應該也注意到昨天也有兩位入籍人士跑到金門的二膽島去\n\n03:46.516 --> 04:03.176\n那個發揮的作用就是相關的紅外線的影像有即時掌握登島的動作所以假如台灣本島也能夠建置比較完整的相關的暗房系統的話我相信減少內岸的發生應該會比較容易有一個充分的能量好這部分再請局長持續關心\n\n04:05.999 --> 04:28.015\n昨天是我們賴總統就職一週年有許多的民眾關心中共是否會有大動作但是上次局長您也提及中共在相關的演習不但啟動的速度快而且還可以把例行性的演習拼湊在一起譬如海峽雷霆的2025A結合到北部\n\n04:29.655 --> 04:54.623\n這個戰區和山東縣的這個遠海長航及聯合戰備警巡拼湊在一起變成針對台灣的一個演習那不論是中共在近幾天所實施的聯合戰備的這個警巡或是周邊其他涉及的演習有可能下一步他們拼湊成的這種大型的軍演我們國安局是否已經有觀察到相關的一個意向\n\n04:55.564 --> 05:10.960\n對,就上次跟委員在報告討論的時候有提到中共他們現在由訓轉演的能量不斷地在強化也就是透過例行的訓練的活動把它整合拼湊成一個對台灣比較有針對性的演訓的一個活動\n\n05:11.340 --> 05:36.161\n那這方面我們有在注意那以520之前確實這樣的狀況有在發生我剛才跟媒體朋友跟羅偉文在說明的是包括海上揮帶部分動作比較多包括海警船進入到金門的水域5月15號跟5月16號另外在5月11號跟5月18號中共也啟動他的聯合戰備警訊那這部分國防部都有對外來進行說明所以可能在520前夕我們有看到\n\n05:36.801 --> 05:55.309\n跟委員報告上次的內容一樣就是透過這些日常的訓練活動來在520之前有一些密集的一些動作來進行某種程度的施壓我們再來持續來注意後續這幾天的相關發展因為他去年是在5月23、24有一個大型的軍演\n\n05:56.269 --> 06:14.984\n因為現在今天是5月21日所以這幾天可能會不會有動作我也請我們國安單位可以持續關注另外在近日內也有日本的防衛省公布包括解放軍的兩棲攻擊艦還有綜合登陸艦等在台灣東部海域實施演訓結合近期的這種侵擾的行為\n\n06:23.683 --> 06:38.323\n推測這個接下來中共重點對台的這個演訓項目大概會是什麼是否會針對兩棲登陸的作戰演習那這方面我們有沒有掌握相關的情緒有針對剛委所提到的日方有公佈\n\n06:39.665 --> 07:03.816\n中共的兩棲攻擊艦目前也有一個編隊在西太平洋的地方來活動那它也是比較屬於例行的遠海長航的一個訓練活動但可以注意到的是在5月18號的剛剛各位提到的聯合戰備警巡那中共他是有相關的反潛機跟無人機飛到西太平洋跟這一個編隊做一些演訓的互動\n\n07:05.096 --> 07:22.511\n這也是跟委員所提到的中共它現在的做法比較像是由訓轉演的這一種演習的規劃會變成是我們關注的焦點委員提到兩棲登陸會不會是未來的演訓重點主要原因因為接下來這幾個月份就是中共兩棲部隊演訓的熱季\n\n07:24.312 --> 07:49.210\n所以他會不會再有這種訓練活動來結合到認知作戰的操作對我們形成一種軍事的外在壓力那這些是我們後續國安局跟我們情報團隊會關注的重點好那上次局長我也跟您請教過中共的這個領導階層近期因為這個貪腐的部分被整肅那前幾天媒體也披露中共的軍委委員這個張申明\n\n07:50.971 --> 08:05.027\n已經接替苗華主管政治工作部甚至不排除會兼任主任有關相關的報導當中所提及的人事變動我們國安局是不是有掌握相關的情質\n\n08:05.948 --> 08:20.981\n中共軍方高層遭到這一波的整肅我們一起再關注因為原來在去年前年的整肅是集中在裝備部門那這次整肅看起來是聚焦在政工部門跟作戰部門\n\n08:21.581 --> 08:37.615\n特別軍委會裡面包括副主席何偉東以及剛剛委員所提到政工部門的苗華都遭到了相關的一個調查那張聲明會被傳言是不是去接掌政工部門是因為政工部門的活動發現了有張聲明因為他是軍委的那個軍紀委\n\n08:38.956 --> 08:57.476\n竟然也去出席所以才會有相關媒體的推論有沒有可能由張聲敏來接掌政工部門那這部分我們會持續的來注意但整體的中共中央軍委會的結構確實出現了一些問題歷來沒有缺源那麼多的一個狀況因為除了李尚福被\n\n08:58.917 --> 09:17.493\n撤職調查以外那現在又有苗華被調查然後何偉東也被調查所以軍委裡面現在只剩下四位包括習近平而四位裡面除了張又俠跟總參的劉振利有作戰背景以外接下來剩下的就是只有那個軍紀委張聲明所以整個軍委會的結構作戰將領目前是\n\n09:22.377 --> 09:45.541\n處在高度懸缺的狀況這是我們在判斷中共在短期內遇到中共高層軍方將領懸缺的狀況他可能要由嚴轉戰的可能性比較沒有那麼大我看外國的相關分析研究機構也有這樣的觀察那重點會在我剛跟委員說明的由馴轉嚴的可能性會比較多這大概是我們整體的一個判斷\n\n09:46.061 --> 10:02.306\n那這個中共的領導階層這種異動啊對我們台灣的這個中國對台灣的相關工作的規劃會不會有什麼影響?對我剛剛跟委員說明的就是因為他現在作戰系統的降臨幾乎處在懸缺的狀況所以要由延轉戰\n\n10:03.966 --> 10:29.850\n一個實際的戰爭的可能性短期之內比較沒有那麼可能這大概是我們國際上普遍的判斷但是由訓轉演一般的訓練轉成針對性的演習這一部分那大概是這一陣子看到主要的重點那結合到人事的變化還有整肅用這方面來說明也可以說明到他們現在重點放在這個所謂的由訓轉演透過日常的訓練來讓解放軍不要去花那麼多心思\n\n10:30.410 --> 10:43.686\n注意到政治整肅的問題而能夠更聚焦在軍事的訓練那這部分就可以讓軍心比較不會那麼浮動這大概是我們的解讀好謝謝局長那也請我們國安單位持續關注好謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.409,"end":26.617,"text":"好,謝謝主席,我們有請蔡局長請蔡局長好,局長早局長,我們這幾天看到中共許多搶灘的行為,偷渡那剛剛您也大概回覆了我們羅委員的部分"},{"start":26.997,"end":52.003,"text":"那針對這個所發生的這些偷渡事件尤其是登陸地點都挑在紅色海灘那他們最主要的目的是要收集情報還是要作為對台的這種心理作戰認知作戰的一個工具還是他們有其他的目的那另外就是剛剛那個我們有提到說他們是搭乘這種橡皮艇"},{"start":53.303,"end":68.029,"text":"那我也很好奇,什麼樣的橡皮艇可以橫跨這個台灣海峽這麼長的距離而且考量到這個油料的補給的相關問題那到底是橡皮艇直達,或是說中間有船隻接駁"},{"start":69.729,"end":93.03,"text":"這個問題我們是不是有去深入了解對於這方面 那個局長您的看法是怎樣這大概分兩個部分啦 一個部分是動機面 一個是它相關實際的作為面那動機面的部分大概不能排除各種的可能性我剛剛也跟羅委員在跟他做說明跟報告那有可能是刻意的操作 也就是挑選這些紅色的海灘比較容易登陸的地點"},{"start":93.89,"end":113.94,"text":"來進行必要的一個測試那同時也透過這種比較微型的小艇因為雷達上比較不好徵收來測試我們相關海防跟應變的能力以及上漢之後我們的應儲的機制這種的可能性不能排除那第二部分是在具體的作為的部分那因為在具體作為的部分我們必須要去分析到它的小艇"},{"start":114.52,"end":130.559,"text":"所能夠搭乘的油料它的航程航線的設計那有沒有可能能夠在相關的油料之下來達到直接到台灣的一個目的那另外一個可能性是委員提到的中間是不是有接駁的可能性那這部分要透過調查比如說去收集"},{"start":130.979,"end":149.946,"text":"他的船艇上有沒有其他的生物跡證除了艇上的人員以外有沒有其他人員的留下來的生物跡證那同時也要去比對他的數位的軌跡包括他的手機以及他的那個小艇有沒有外掛或懸吊因為大船外掛懸吊所留下來的痕跡"},{"start":150.626,"end":175.001,"text":"所以很多的細節必須要做進一步的查證跟比對那這部分海巡署都有在做相關的一個瞭解那只要案況有比較清楚的話看能不能適時對外公布因為實際上相關案子都已經細簡在整版那從這幾個案子看起來我們的這個海岸巡防跟我們這個監測的這些能力是不是有破洞"},{"start":176.145,"end":192.835,"text":"對 我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在說明就是說有這麼多的個案我們除了每一個個案去了解剛剛跟委員說明的實際的細部的狀況釐清他的動機跟他的行為以外那通案來看反沾到底我們的海防有沒有相關的一個漏洞"},{"start":193.215,"end":210.051,"text":"那這部分我事實上前兩天在案發之後也跟海巡署的張署長有通話做一些討論那透過反詹的方式是不是我們在岸際相關巡查人員的部署還有要加強的地方那另外在硬體設備不管是岸海的監偵設備的部分"},{"start":211.272,"end":225.494,"text":"是不是要持續的來加強建構那海巡署目前看起來包括在岸際的紅花線熱行象儀正不斷的在便利預算來徵購那我應該也注意到昨天也有兩位入籍人士跑到金門的二膽島去"},{"start":226.516,"end":243.176,"text":"那個發揮的作用就是相關的紅外線的影像有即時掌握登島的動作所以假如台灣本島也能夠建置比較完整的相關的暗房系統的話我相信減少內岸的發生應該會比較容易有一個充分的能量好 這部分再請局長持續關心"},{"start":245.999,"end":268.015,"text":"昨天是我們賴總統就職一週年有許多的民眾關心中共是否會有大動作但是上次局長您也提及中共在相關的演習不但啟動的速度快而且還可以把例行性的演習拼湊在一起譬如海峽雷霆的2025A結合到北部"},{"start":269.655,"end":294.623,"text":"這個戰區和山東縣的這個遠海長航及聯合戰備警巡拼湊在一起變成針對台灣的一個演習那不論是中共在近幾天所實施的聯合戰備的這個警巡或是周邊其他涉及的演習有可能下一步他們拼湊成的這種大型的軍演我們國安局是否已經有觀察到相關的一個意向"},{"start":295.564,"end":310.96,"text":"對,就上次跟委員在報告討論的時候有提到中共他們現在由訓轉演的能量不斷地在強化也就是透過例行的訓練的活動把它整合拼湊成一個對台灣比較有針對性的演訓的一個活動"},{"start":311.34,"end":336.161,"text":"那這方面我們有在注意那以520之前確實這樣的狀況有在發生我剛才跟媒體朋友跟羅偉文在說明的是包括海上揮帶部分動作比較多包括海警船進入到金門的水域5月15號跟5月16號另外在5月11號跟5月18號中共也啟動他的聯合戰備警訊那這部分國防部都有對外來進行說明所以可能在520前夕我們有看到"},{"start":336.801,"end":355.309,"text":"跟委員報告上次的內容一樣就是透過這些日常的訓練活動來在520之前有一些密集的一些動作來進行某種程度的施壓我們再來持續來注意後續這幾天的相關發展因為他去年是在5月23、24有一個大型的軍演"},{"start":356.269,"end":374.984,"text":"因為現在今天是5月21日所以這幾天可能會不會有動作我也請我們國安單位可以持續關注另外在近日內也有日本的防衛省公布包括解放軍的兩棲攻擊艦還有綜合登陸艦等在台灣東部海域實施演訓結合近期的這種侵擾的行為"},{"start":383.683,"end":398.323,"text":"推測這個接下來 中共重點對台的這個演訓項目大概會是什麼 是否會針對兩棲登陸的作戰演習那這方面我們有沒有掌握相關的情緒有 針對剛委所提到的 日方有公佈"},{"start":399.665,"end":423.816,"text":"中共的兩棲攻擊艦目前也有一個編隊在西太平洋的地方來活動那它也是比較屬於例行的遠海長航的一個訓練活動但可以注意到的是在5月18號的剛剛各位提到的聯合戰備警巡那中共他是有相關的反潛機跟無人機飛到西太平洋跟這一個編隊做一些演訓的互動"},{"start":425.096,"end":442.511,"text":"這也是跟委員所提到的中共它現在的做法比較像是由訓轉演的這一種演習的規劃會變成是我們關注的焦點委員提到兩棲登陸會不會是未來的演訓重點主要原因因為接下來這幾個月份就是中共兩棲部隊演訓的熱季"},{"start":444.312,"end":469.21,"text":"所以他會不會再有這種訓練活動來結合到認知作戰的操作對我們形成一種軍事的外在壓力那這些是我們後續國安局跟我們情報團隊會關注的重點好 那上次局長我也跟您請教過中共的這個領導階層近期因為這個貪腐的部分被整肅那前幾天媒體也披露中共的軍委委員這個張申明"},{"start":470.971,"end":485.027,"text":"已經接替苗華主管政治工作部甚至不排除會兼任主任有關相關的報導當中所提及的人事變動我們國安局是不是有掌握相關的情質"},{"start":485.948,"end":500.981,"text":"中共軍方高層遭到這一波的整肅我們一起再關注因為原來在去年前年的整肅是集中在裝備部門那這次整肅看起來是聚焦在政工部門跟作戰部門"},{"start":501.581,"end":517.615,"text":"特別軍委會裡面包括副主席何偉東以及剛剛委員所提到政工部門的苗華都遭到了相關的一個調查那張聲明會被傳言是不是去接掌政工部門是因為政工部門的活動發現了有張聲明因為他是軍委的那個軍紀委"},{"start":518.956,"end":537.476,"text":"竟然也去出席所以才會有相關媒體的推論有沒有可能由張聲敏來接掌政工部門那這部分我們會持續的來注意但整體的中共中央軍委會的結構確實出現了一些問題歷來沒有缺源那麼多的一個狀況因為除了李尚福被"},{"start":538.917,"end":557.493,"text":"撤職調查以外那現在又有苗華被調查然後何偉東也被調查所以軍委裡面現在只剩下四位包括習近平而四位裡面除了張又俠跟總參的劉振利有作戰背景以外接下來剩下的就是只有那個軍紀委張聲明所以整個軍委會的結構作戰將領目前是"},{"start":562.377,"end":585.541,"text":"處在高度懸缺的狀況這是我們在判斷中共在短期內遇到中共高層軍方將領懸缺的狀況他可能要由嚴轉戰的可能性比較沒有那麼大我看外國的相關分析研究機構也有這樣的觀察那重點會在我剛跟委員說明的由馴轉嚴的可能性會比較多這大概是我們整體的一個判斷"},{"start":586.061,"end":602.306,"text":"那這個中共的領導階層這種異動啊對我們台灣的這個中國對台灣的相關工作的規劃會不會有什麼影響?對我剛剛跟委員說明的就是因為他現在作戰系統的降臨幾乎處在懸缺的狀況所以要由延轉戰"},{"start":603.966,"end":629.85,"text":"一個實際的戰爭的可能性短期之內比較沒有那麼可能這大概是我們國際上普遍的判斷但是由訓轉演一般的訓練轉成針對性的演習這一部分那大概是這一陣子看到主要的重點那結合到人事的變化還有整肅用這方面來說明也可以說明到他們現在重點放在這個所謂的由訓轉演透過日常的訓練來讓解放軍不要去花那麼多心思"},{"start":630.41,"end":643.686,"text":"注意到政治整肅的問題而能夠更聚焦在軍事的訓練那這部分就可以讓軍心比較不會那麼浮動這大概是我們的解讀好 謝謝局長那也請我們國安單位持續關注好 謝謝主席謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":116,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（9時38分）謝謝主席，我們有請蔡局長。"],["主席：請蔡局長。"],["陳委員俊宇：局長早。"],["蔡局長明彥：委員早。"],["陳委員俊宇：局長，就我們這幾天看到中共有許多搶灘這種行為、偷渡，剛剛您也大概回復了羅委員的質詢，針對發生的這些偷渡事件，尤其是登陸地點都挑在紅色海灘，他們最主要的目的是要蒐集情報還是要作為對臺心理作戰、認知作戰的一個工具？還是他們有其他的目的？另外剛剛有提到他們是搭乘橡皮艇，我也很好奇，什麼樣的橡皮艇可以橫跨臺灣海峽這麼長的距離？而且考量到油料補給的相關問題，到底是橡皮艇直達或是中間有船隻接駁？這個問題我們是不是有去深入了解？對於這方面，局長的看法是怎麼樣？"],["蔡局長明彥：這大概分兩個部分：一個部分是動機面，一個是相關實際的作為面。動機面的部分，大概不能排除各種可能性，剛剛也跟羅委員說明跟報告，有可能是刻意操作，也就是挑選這些紅色海灘比較容易登陸的地點，進行必要的測試，同時也透過這種比較微型的小艇，因為雷達上比較不好偵蒐，來測試我們相關海防跟應變的能力，以及上岸之後我們的應處機制，這種可能性不能排除。第二部分是在具體作為的部分，在具體作為的部分，我們必須要去分析小艇所能夠搭乘的油料、它的航程、航線的設計，有沒有可能能夠在相關的油料之下達到直接抵達臺灣的目的。","另外一個可能性是委員提到的，中間是不是有接駁的可能性，這部分要透過調查，比如說，去蒐集船艇上有沒有其他的生物跡證，除了艇上人員以外，有沒有其他人員留下來的生物跡證，同時也要去比對它的數位軌跡，包括他的手機以及小艇有沒有外掛或懸吊，因為大船外掛懸吊所留下來的痕跡，所以有很多細節必須要做進一步的查證跟比對，這部分海巡署都有在做相關的了解，假如案況有比較清楚的話，看能不能適時對外公布，因為實際上相關的案子都已經在偵辦。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。從這幾個案子看起來，我們的海岸巡防跟我們監測的能力是不是有破洞？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我剛剛也跟媒體朋友說明，有這麼多的個案，我們除了每一個個案去了解剛剛跟委員說明的實際細部狀況，釐清他的動機跟他的行為以外，通案來看，反覘我們的海防到底有沒有相關的漏洞？這部分事實上前兩天在案發之後也有跟海巡署張署長通話，做一些討論，透過反覘的方式，是不是我們在岸際相關巡查人員的部署還有要加強的地方？另外，在硬體設備，不管是岸、海的監偵設備的部分，是不是要持續加強建構？海巡署目前看起來，包括岸際的紅外線熱顯像儀，正不斷的編列預算增購，委員應該也注意到，昨天也有兩位陸籍人士跑到金門的二膽島去，那個發揮的作用就是相關的紅外線影像有即時掌握登島的動作，所以假如臺灣本島也能夠建置比較完整的岸防系統的話，我相信減少類案的發生，應該會比較容易有一個充分的能量。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，這部分再請局長持續關心。"],["蔡局長明彥：應該的，這是我們的職責。"],["陳委員俊宇：昨天是賴總統就職一週年，有許多民眾關心中共是否會有大動作，但是上次局長也提及中共在相關的演習，不但啟動的速度快，而且還可以把例行性的演習拼湊在一起。譬如海峽雷霆─2025A結合到北部戰區和山東艦的遠海長航及聯合戰備警巡，拼湊在一起變成針對臺灣的一個演習，不論是中共在近幾天所實施的聯合戰備警巡，或是周邊其他涉及的演習，下一步他們有可能拼湊成大型軍演，我們國安局是否已經有觀察到相關的意向？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，上次跟委員在報告討論的時候有提到，中共現在由訓轉演的能量不斷在強化，也就是透過例行的訓練活動，把它整合拼湊成一個對臺灣比較有針對性的演訓活動，這方面我們有在注意，520之前確實這樣的狀況有在發生。我剛才跟媒體朋友、跟羅委員說明的是，海上灰帶的部分動作比較多，包括海警船進入金門的水域，5月15號跟5月16號。另外在5月11號跟5月18號，中共也啟動它的聯合戰備警巡，這部分國防部都有對外進行說明。在520前夕我們有看到跟委員報告上次的內容一樣，就是透過這些日常訓練活動，在520之前有一些密集的動作，進行某種程度的施壓。我們再持續注意後續這幾天的相關發展。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，去年是在5月23、24有一個大型的軍演。"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["陳委員俊宇：今天是5月21了，這幾天會不會有動作，我也請我們國安單位可以持續關注。"],["蔡局長明彥：好。"],["陳委員俊宇：另外，近日也有日本防衛省公布，包括解放軍的兩棲攻擊艦，還有登陸艦等，在臺灣東部海域實施演訓，結合近期的侵擾行為，推測接下來中共重點對臺的演訓項目大概會是什麼？是否會有針對兩棲登陸的作戰演習？這方面我們有沒有掌握相關的情資？"],["蔡局長明彥：有。針對剛剛委員所提到的，日方有公布，中共的兩棲攻擊艦目前也有一個編隊在西太平洋的地方活動，它也是比較屬於例行的遠海長航訓練活動，但可以注意到的是，在5月18號剛剛跟委員提到的聯合戰備警巡，中共有相關的反潛機跟無人機飛到西太平洋，跟這個編隊做一些演訓的互動，這也是跟委員所提到的，中共現在的作法比較像是由訓轉演的演習規劃，會變成是我們關注的焦點。委員提到兩棲登陸會不會是未來的演訓重點，主要原因是接下來這幾個月就是中共兩棲部隊演訓的熱季，所以會不會再有這種訓練活動結合認知作戰的操作，對我們形成一種軍事的外在壓力？這也是後續我們國安局跟情報團隊會關注的重點。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。上次我也跟局長請教過，中共的領導階層近期因為貪腐被整肅，前幾天媒體也披露，中共的軍委委員張升民已經接替苗華主管政治工作部，甚至不排除會兼任主任，相關的報導當中所提及的人事變動，我們國安局是不是有掌握相關的情資？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，中共軍方高層遭到這一波整肅，我們有一直在關注，原來在前年的整肅是集中在裝備部門，這次整肅看起來是聚焦在政工部門跟作戰部門，特別軍委會裡面，包括副主席何衛東，以及剛剛委員提到政工部門的苗華，都遭到相關調查。張升民會被傳言是不是去接掌政工部門，是因為政工部門的活動發現有張升民，因為他是軍紀委，竟然也出席，所以才會有相關媒體的推論，有沒有可能由張升民接掌政工部門，這部分我們會持續注意。但整體的中共中央軍委會結構確實出現了一些問題，歷來沒有缺員那麼多的狀況，因為除了李尚福被撤職調查以外，現在又有苗華被調查，然後何衛東也被調查，所以軍委裡面現在只剩下四位，包括習近平，而四位裡面除了張又俠跟總參的劉振立有作戰背景以外，接下來剩下的就是只有軍紀委張升民，所以整個軍委會結構作戰將領目前是處在高度懸缺的狀況，這是我們判斷中共在短期內遇到中共高層軍方將領懸缺的狀況，它由演轉戰的可能性比較沒有那麼大，我看外國的相關分析研究機構也有這樣的觀察，重點會在我剛剛跟委員說明的，由訓轉演的可能性會比較多，這大概是我們整體的判斷。"],["陳委員俊宇：中共領導階層這種異動對於中國對臺灣相關工作的規劃會不會有什麼影響？"],["蔡局長明彥：我剛剛跟委員說明的就是它現在作戰系統的將領幾乎處在懸缺的狀況，所以要由演轉戰（實際戰爭）的可能性短期之內比較沒有那麼可能，這大概是國際上普遍的判斷。但是由訓轉演，就是一般的訓練轉成針對性的演習，這部分大概是這陣子看到的主要重點。結合人事的變化，還有整肅，用這方面也可以說明他們現在重點放在所謂的由訓轉演，透過日常的訓練讓解放軍不要花那麼多心思注意到政治整肅的問題，而能夠更聚焦在軍事訓練，這部分就可以讓軍心比較不會那麼浮動，這大概是我們的解讀。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，謝謝局長，也請我們國安單位持續關注，謝謝主席。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝陳委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請沈伯洋委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":42,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-16","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王定宇","林憶君","陳培瑜","陳永康"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國家安全局預算凍結案等24案","agenda_id":"1145201_00001"}}}