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\"text\": \"海巡署對媒體說要爭取相關的預算要積極建置紅外線熱像儀等暗海的這個監偵系統增加艦艇的這個能量還有提升立體徵收能力等等的設備要強化國土的防衛韌性可是海巡署爭取這個預算建置紅外線熱像儀這些其實早在105年以前就已經在規劃\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 280.799, \"end\": 281.019, \"score\": 0.554}, {\"word\": \"巡\", \"start\": 281.019, \"end\": 281.319, \"score\": 0.598}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 281.319, \"end\": 281.68, \"score\": 0.6}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"媒\", \"start\": 281.68, \"end\": 281.7, \"score\": 0.154}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 281.7, \"end\": 281.88, \"score\": 0.629}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 281.88, \"end\": 282.04, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 282.04, \"end\": 282.06, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 282.06, \"end\": 282.08, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 282.08, \"end\": 282.18, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 282.18, \"end\": 282.24, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, 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\"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 851.058, \"end\": 851.178, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 851.178, \"end\": 851.379, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 851.379, \"end\": 851.519, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 851.519, \"end\": 851.92, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 851.92, \"end\": 852.06, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 852.06, \"end\": 852.361, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 852.361, \"end\": 852.541, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 852.541, \"end\": 852.681, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 852.681, \"end\": 852.701, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,553 --> 00:00:01,077\n謝謝主席麻煩請局長\n\n2\n00:00:07,935 --> 00:00:14,580\n好謝謝主席馬委員早局長早局長許多委員大概今天都非常關心我們現在大陸由西部沿海紅色海灘偷渡入台的這個狀況到現在都沒有辦法遏止所以國安團隊其實是責無旁貸的大陸網紅打卡插旗這個已經嚴重影響到或打擊到國人對於國家安全的信心這非常嚴重所以我們剛剛提到的不管是像\n\n3\n00:00:38,898 --> 00:01:05,729\n對岸的經濟狀況也好灰色洗腦也好這個都已經是現階段發生的可是我們更在乎的是我們要怎麼樣因應因為從16日桃園觀音地區又發生這個大陸人士以橡皮艇方式橫渡台灣海峽的這個偷渡事件它上岸的地點不但是國防部實彈演練的地點附近而且也是被視為中共侵台\n\n4\n00:01:06,209 --> 00:01:21,244\n最有可能的登陸的紅色海灘這些都是重點區域而且這一次比較不同的甚至是父親帶著一個未成年的小孩他都可以在偷渡的地點休息一個晚上而且還自己自動投案\n\n5\n00:01:22,145 --> 00:01:24,007\n隔日上午才投案,然後我們這個案子發生,這個相隔他們說才三個小時又有這個山東凱哥在社群公佈他的影片然後甚至在我們的這個風力發電桃園的這個海灘在風力發電機附近的沙灘插上五星旗幟拍\n\n6\n00:01:47,027 --> 00:02:09,416\n這個已經非常的嚴重而且顯露出我們有非常大的國安的破口我們更在乎的其實是這些因為在大陸人士從新北到桃園一線這個紅色海灘或港口偷渡入台這個已經不是一次發生我們從去年五月到今年五月其實它總共如果連那個山東凱歌\n\n7\n00:02:10,916 --> 00:02:28,631\n的事件他已經七件了我們還姑且不論其他中南部發生的事情也不論更早之前的就光是這一年其實他就有總共有七件所以局長這一次這個我們過去也質詢過很多類似這樣的事件那海巡署是說這個小艇或者橡皮艇他太小我們的岸置雷達沒有辦法偵測到\n\n8\n00:02:35,436 --> 00:02:40,500\n可是我們看到一而再再而三的發生這個就好像中共解放軍對於我們國安團隊在給同一個考題一年內我們重考了六次還是不合格這是非常嚴重的問題所以我們要怎麼看待這個部分因為會被列為紅色海灘的這個地點或港口其實它很容易被解放軍登岸的這個地點一再的發生這樣的事情國人我相信非常難接受\n\n9\n00:03:05,177 --> 00:03:11,719\n那國安局評估這樣子的狀況因為這些都還是他有主動投案那有沒有可能還有很多黑數就是他根本就上來了然後我們也不知道他可能就在我們的土地上面就在這裡可能逍遙自在那國安局有沒有評估投案直接進入台灣的大陸人就是沒有投案的直接進來的大概有多少\n\n10\n00:03:33,826 --> 00:03:56,945\n那這些偷渡的它有多少比例是派來潛伏或者測試漏洞的?國安局有沒有針對這個做一些相關的評估?對,在我們國安情報團隊來講當然海巡署負責的就是海域的安全那我們的很重要的情治來源也是透過海巡署才辦法來掌握相關中共揮帶襲擾的動態那委員事實上講的沒有錯\n\n11\n00:03:59,867 --> 00:04:23,715\n在最近這一陣子確實這樣的海上灰帶洗腦的案件是比較多那這也是尤其在520的前夕我們是本井神經在注意類似的案件那我不斷的在提醒海刑署就是說個案的調查歸個案的調查但是通案的檢討到底反戰過來我們的海岸巡防有哪些的漏洞包括到紅色海灘岸際的人員的配置跟巡查\n\n12\n00:04:24,255 --> 00:04:37,285\n那以及怎麼樣來輔佐相關的科技的設備包括委員應該也有注意到他們現在正在建置紅外線的熱顯像系統等等那可能要有一個比較完整的一個規劃才有辦法來應對中共針對性的這些動作這個部分其實是不對的\n\n13\n00:04:40,799 --> 00:04:45,863\n海巡署對媒體說要爭取相關的預算要積極建置紅外線熱像儀等暗海的這個監偵系統增加艦艇的這個能量還有提升立體徵收能力等等的設備要強化國土的防衛韌性可是海巡署爭取這個預算建置紅外線熱像儀這些其實早在105年以前就已經在規劃\n\n14\n00:05:04,099 --> 00:05:08,041\n而且112年113年到114年都有購置而且現在也在使用過去為了提升立體徵收能力107年也買了20架的無人機使用數年以後就是從\n\n15\n00:05:19,665 --> 00:05:35,103\n中部也好南部也好甚至在台北紅色海灘的這個部分一而再再而三的發生我們過去買的完全沒有用你已經使用了這好幾年了我剛剛念的這些年其實他們都有建制啊可是我們看不到它的一點功能\n\n16\n00:05:36,184 --> 00:05:40,386\n所以他到底買來到底做什麼而且更好笑的是這個海巡署對媒體解釋說我們無人機只能在陣風五到六級以下海向穩定的時候使用那東北季風平均風力七級根本就飛不起來這個更可笑又可惡因為我們台灣周邊的海域本來我們的風力大概都是六七級以上尤其是在這個東北季風期間\n\n17\n00:06:04,255 --> 00:06:26,733\n那我們當時在買的時候難道都沒有考慮到這些嗎尤其現在國防部買的全部都是六幾以下的那你以後怎麼樣面對這樣的環境所以不是我們沒有裝備不是我們是買了裝備沒有達到目標是不是應該對國人解釋而不是把這個用甩鍋給在野黨說沒有支持預算這不是笑話嗎\n\n18\n00:06:28,294 --> 00:06:37,119\n那個從過去到現在熱血向於紅外線雷達還有所有的監偵系統還有像這個無人機全買了所以他應該要給國人交代的是為什麼買了這些花了這麼高額的預算而沒有達到目標而且讓對岸的人一而再再而三而且只是普通人他們就可以帶著小孩都可以上岸這非常離譜局長怎麼看\n\n19\n00:06:54,970 --> 00:07:21,045\n這部分我們有跟海巡做一些了解我們也是有相關的一些疑問希望海巡來幫我們釐清他們對於一些採購的岸際的監偵的設備聽起來初步的部署重點都在外離島因為外離島當時最有這種比較微型或小型的橡皮艇來侵擾的狀況所以他們重點放在外離島這也不對本島的部分要加強部署這是我們得到的相關的資訊\n\n20\n00:07:21,445 --> 00:07:24,992\n因為在過去你們要不要看一下我們接下來這個圖局長您看一下接下來這個圖你覺得有什麼樣的問題嗎\n\n21\n00:07:42,683 --> 00:07:56,590\n這個就國安的角度啦海巡署公開說明的簡報這個部分我們可以看得到因為我剛剛也提到了無人機其實是有配置的所以它不會只有在外離島因為它不是第一次發生所以當我們的紅色海灘它經過這麼多次到現在還沒有建置那完全說不過去所以\n\n22\n00:08:03,573 --> 00:08:11,158\n第一就是我們根本麻木不仁你到現在還在認為說我們現在都還沒有建制這是一個很大的問題第二個就是這個角度像這樣子的圖示局長認為合適嗎當很多我們委員在跟相關單位要資料的時候\n\n23\n00:08:27,629 --> 00:08:37,536\n通常都是說這些都是機敏資料建置在哪裡這個都不可以給那個不可以給全部都是機敏的現在我們看這個圖局長有什麼看法這個圖主要講到未來的建置他們部署的地點局長你可能仔細看一下這個部分其實它的港口位置還有它的\n\n24\n00:08:54,619 --> 00:08:58,283\n海岸線的位置其實都已經標示出來了它的相對位置你看左邊綠色的跟右邊綠色的這個部分就是我們雷達的兩個雷達站的位置它都標出來了未來要建的這個智慧型岸間監控系統\n\n25\n00:09:12,018 --> 00:09:16,762\n還有紅外線熱影像系統這個兩個未來要建置的他也把距離跟參數都把它標示出來了像這樣子的一個狀況你公開給國人這個對岸看不到嗎那動不動如果我們委員會委員要相關的資料因為你如果沒有相關的資料你怎麼知道你的預算用的對或錯你怎麼知道你用的用\n\n26\n00:09:37,060 --> 00:09:57,569\n用的結果它到底是什麼樣的成果從現在驗證大陸人士幫我們做了驗證我們過去到現在我們花了非常高的預算其實是不合格的而且一而再再而三的發生它現在不能只是怪其他的什麼灰色洗澡這個已經很久了不是現在才發生可是它居然可以在我們不斷的加強監控然後告訴國人說我們會有非常安全的這些防護\n\n27\n00:10:06,773 --> 00:10:31,392\n之下其實它一直被突破這個是國安非常嚴重的破口局長要怎麼做我講基本上只要有一個案例只要有一個案例讓陸客偷渡上岸那就代表在海防上還是有盡盡撤進的空間那這部分我們來針對相關海防的一個疏失在跟海巡署來要求他們在相關的一個部署跟建設上還是要有一些比較具體的撤進的計畫\n\n28\n00:10:32,193 --> 00:10:46,767\n好局長因為我們現在今天為什麼特別又語重心長的講是與其要把自己國人都每一個都當成賊還不如把現在已經發生的危險好好的把它做好管控因為它才是我們立即的危險我們\n\n29\n00:10:48,348 --> 00:10:52,610\n現在賴總統說我們的境外敵對勢力就是對岸那現在又說可以合併那你既是敵人又是合併現在大家也會覺得說這個在整體的那種不確定性上面因為大家不知道哪一個才是賴總統想要真正表達的這個部分我們可能有時間再繼續做探討就這個部分我們比較擔心的是當這一次在520的演講裡面像\n\n30\n00:11:18,140 --> 00:11:43,995\n賴總統其實他在去年演講的時候他針對內容可能在提到中華民國的時候有九次中華民國台灣有三次台灣有79次中國則有七次中華人民共和國一次可是賴總統提到台灣跟中國的次數是遠遠超過蔡英文總統兩次的就職演說那在今年都沒有說我們剛剛提到的是\n\n31\n00:11:45,776 --> 00:11:50,720\n賴總統之前在三月的時候把大陸定義為境外敵對勢力可是近期又有併購說這樣的說法這樣子我們會有點擔心甚至有一些看法會覺得說這個是不是在呼應川普總統之前說的統一與和平的說法\n\n32\n00:12:04,031 --> 00:12:07,012\n我們現在姑且因為川普總統他沒有主持沒有錯我們也不想去依測可是就這個部分我們比較擔心的是當川普總統想要見習近平而且跟他做貿易談判或者甚至更多元的合作的\n\n33\n00:12:22,119 --> 00:12:26,983\n當下台灣會不會被當成在這個中美討論的議題裡面我們成為籌碼這是我們比較擔憂的那這個部分國安團隊有什麼樣的看法或建議對針對整體的美中關係的發展我想也跟委員說明一下結果上他們還是處在一個高度競爭的局面那川普的國安團隊對於怎麼樣反制中共在區域的擴張是投入了越來越多的資源這部分我們可以再跟委員做細部的報告\n\n34\n00:12:50,880 --> 00:13:04,731\n至於我們剛剛所提到的在大環境之下海岸巡防這一部分的缺失怎麼樣來做更進一步的測定跟改善我們會持續的來提醒海巡署應該要做到相關的一個反戰缺失的一個彌補\n\n35\n00:13:05,872 --> 00:13:11,136\n這個部分因為國安局畢竟是整個國安團隊的頭怎麼樣讓我們這個國安破口應該要找到一個非常有效的一個解決的方案請給我們委員會相關的這些資料把它收整以後因為我們不希望看到我們所有的報告每次都是例行性的或者在很多的媒體上面我們都可以看到的這些資料而是我們現在立即發生的國安的這些事件應該要注意的國安的議題應該要給\n\n36\n00:13:35,211 --> 00:13:39,313\n我們委員會我們全體的委員或者甚至國人更清楚的知道那我們也希望說在現在賴總統他的演講裡面的那個歇委的這些差異不是歇委他非常大的這樣的差異他所會造成的影響會不會是因為受到其他外力的影響而做這些動作或決定這個也希望國安局可以密切的\n\n37\n00:14:04,866 --> 00:14:12,701\n去提醒或者去做相對的研習委員提到重點我們來加強注意那委員假如需要任何的情思我們來提供給委員做參考謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n553\t1077\t謝謝主席 麻煩請局長\n7935\t14580\t好 謝謝主席 馬委員早局長早 局長許多委員大概今天都非常關心我們現在大陸由西部沿海紅色海灘偷渡入台的這個狀況到現在都沒有辦法遏止所以國安團隊其實是責無旁貸的大陸網紅打卡插旗這個已經嚴重影響到或打擊到國人對於國家安全的信心這非常嚴重所以我們剛剛提到的不管是像\n38898\t65729\t對岸的經濟狀況也好灰色洗腦也好這個都已經是現階段發生的可是我們更在乎的是我們要怎麼樣因應因為從16日桃園觀音地區又發生這個大陸人士以橡皮艇方式橫渡台灣海峽的這個偷渡事件它上岸的地點不但是國防部實彈演練的地點附近而且也是被視為中共侵台\n66209\t81244\t最有可能的登陸的紅色海灘這些都是重點區域而且這一次比較不同的甚至是父親帶著一個未成年的小孩他都可以在偷渡的地點休息一個晚上而且還自己自動投案\n82145\t84007\t隔日上午才投案,然後我們這個案子發生,這個相隔他們說才三個小時又有這個山東凱哥在社群公佈他的影片然後甚至在我們的這個風力發電桃園的這個海灘在風力發電機附近的沙灘插上五星旗幟拍\n107027\t129416\t這個已經非常的嚴重而且顯露出我們有非常大的國安的破口我們更在乎的其實是這些因為在大陸人士從新北到桃園一線這個紅色海灘或港口偷渡入台這個已經不是一次發生我們從去年五月到今年五月其實它總共如果連那個山東凱歌\n130916\t148631\t的事件他已經七件了我們還姑且不論其他中南部發生的事情也不論更早之前的就光是這一年其實他就有總共有七件所以局長這一次這個我們過去也質詢過很多類似這樣的事件那海巡署是說這個小艇或者橡皮艇他太小我們的岸置雷達沒有辦法偵測到\n155436\t160500\t可是我們看到一而再再而三的發生這個就好像中共解放軍對於我們國安團隊在給同一個考題一年內我們重考了六次還是不合格這是非常嚴重的問題所以我們要怎麼看待這個部分因為會被列為紅色海灘的這個地點或港口其實它很容易被解放軍登岸的這個地點一再的發生這樣的事情國人我相信非常難接受\n185177\t191719\t那國安局評估這樣子的狀況因為這些都還是他有主動投案那有沒有可能還有很多黑數就是他根本就上來了然後我們也不知道他可能就在我們的土地上面就在這裡可能逍遙自在那國安局有沒有評估投案直接進入台灣的大陸人就是沒有投案的直接進來的大概有多少\n213826\t236945\t那這些偷渡的它有多少比例是派來潛伏或者測試漏洞的?國安局有沒有針對這個做一些相關的評估?對,在我們國安情報團隊來講當然海巡署負責的就是海域的安全那我們的很重要的情治來源也是透過海巡署才辦法來掌握相關中共揮帶襲擾的動態那委員事實上講的沒有錯\n239867\t263715\t在最近這一陣子確實這樣的海上灰帶洗腦的案件是比較多那這也是尤其在520的前夕我們是本井神經在注意類似的案件那我不斷的在提醒海刑署就是說個案的調查歸個案的調查但是通案的檢討到底反戰過來我們的海岸巡防有哪些的漏洞包括到紅色海灘岸際的人員的配置跟巡查\n264255\t277285\t那以及怎麼樣來輔佐相關的科技的設備包括委員應該也有注意到他們現在正在建置紅外線的熱顯像系統等等那可能要有一個比較完整的一個規劃才有辦法來應對中共針對性的這些動作這個部分其實是不對的\n280799\t285863\t海巡署對媒體說要爭取相關的預算要積極建置紅外線熱像儀等暗海的這個監偵系統增加艦艇的這個能量還有提升立體徵收能力等等的設備要強化國土的防衛韌性可是海巡署爭取這個預算建置紅外線熱像儀這些其實早在105年以前就已經在規劃\n304099\t308041\t而且112年113年到114年都有購置而且現在也在使用過去為了提升立體徵收能力107年也買了20架的無人機使用數年以後就是從\n319665\t335103\t中部也好南部也好甚至在台北紅色海灘的這個部分一而再再而三的發生我們過去買的完全沒有用你已經使用了這好幾年了我剛剛念的這些年其實他們都有建制啊可是我們看不到它的一點功能\n336184\t340386\t所以他到底買來到底做什麼而且更好笑的是這個海巡署對媒體解釋說我們無人機只能在陣風五到六級以下海向穩定的時候使用那東北季風平均風力七級根本就飛不起來這個更可笑又可惡因為我們台灣周邊的海域本來我們的風力大概都是六七級以上尤其是在這個東北季風期間\n364255\t386733\t那我們當時在買的時候難道都沒有考慮到這些嗎尤其現在國防部買的全部都是六幾以下的那你以後怎麼樣面對這樣的環境所以不是我們沒有裝備不是我們是買了裝備沒有達到目標是不是應該對國人解釋而不是把這個用甩鍋給在野黨說沒有支持預算這不是笑話嗎\n388294\t397119\t那個從過去到現在熱血向於紅外線雷達還有所有的監偵系統還有像這個無人機全買了所以他應該要給國人交代的是為什麼買了這些花了這麼高額的預算而沒有達到目標而且讓對岸的人一而再再而三而且只是普通人他們就可以帶著小孩都可以上岸這非常離譜局長怎麼看\n414970\t441045\t這部分我們有跟海巡做一些了解我們也是有相關的一些疑問希望海巡來幫我們釐清他們對於一些採購的岸際的監偵的設備聽起來初步的部署重點都在外離島因為外離島當時最有這種比較微型或小型的橡皮艇來侵擾的狀況所以他們重點放在外離島這也不對本島的部分要加強部署這是我們得到的相關的資訊\n441445\t444992\t因為在過去你們要不要看一下我們接下來這個圖局長您看一下接下來這個圖你覺得有什麼樣的問題嗎\n462683\t476590\t這個就國安的角度啦 海巡署公開說明的簡報這個部分我們可以看得到 因為我剛剛也提到了無人機其實是有配置的所以它不會只有在外離島 因為它不是第一次發生所以當我們的紅色海灘 它經過這麼多次到現在還沒有建置 那完全說不過去 所以\n483573\t491158\t第一就是我們根本麻木不仁你到現在還在認為說我們現在都還沒有建制這是一個很大的問題第二個就是這個角度像這樣子的圖示局長認為合適嗎當很多我們委員在跟相關單位要資料的時候\n507629\t517536\t通常都是說這些都是機敏資料建置在哪裡這個都不可以給那個不可以給全部都是機敏的現在我們看這個圖局長有什麼看法這個圖主要講到未來的建置他們部署的地點局長你可能仔細看一下這個部分其實它的港口位置還有它的\n534619\t538283\t海岸線的位置其實都已經標示出來了它的相對位置你看左邊綠色的跟右邊綠色的這個部分就是我們雷達的兩個雷達站的位置它都標出來了未來要建的這個智慧型岸間監控系統\n552018\t556762\t還有紅外線熱影像系統這個兩個未來要建置的他也把距離跟參數都把它標示出來了像這樣子的一個狀況你公開給國人這個對岸看不到嗎那動不動如果我們委員會委員要相關的資料因為你如果沒有相關的資料你怎麼知道你的預算用的對或錯你怎麼知道你用的用\n577060\t597569\t用的結果它到底是什麼樣的成果從現在驗證大陸人士幫我們做了驗證我們過去到現在我們花了非常高的預算其實是不合格的而且一而再再而三的發生它現在不能只是怪其他的什麼灰色洗澡這個已經很久了不是現在才發生可是它居然可以在我們不斷的加強監控然後告訴國人說我們會有非常安全的這些防護\n606773\t631392\t之下其實它一直被突破這個是國安非常嚴重的破口局長要怎麼做我講基本上只要有一個案例只要有一個案例讓陸客偷渡上岸那就代表在海防上還是有盡盡撤進的空間那這部分我們來針對相關海防的一個疏失在跟海巡署來要求他們在相關的一個部署跟建設上還是要有一些比較具體的撤進的計畫\n632193\t646767\t好 局長因為我們現在今天為什麼特別又語重心長的講是與其要把自己國人都每一個都當成賊還不如把現在已經發生的危險好好的把它做好管控因為它才是我們立即的危險我們\n648348\t652610\t現在賴總統說我們的境外敵對勢力就是對岸那現在又說可以合併那你既是敵人又是合併現在大家也會覺得說這個在整體的那種不確定性上面因為大家不知道哪一個才是賴總統想要真正表達的這個部分我們可能有時間再繼續做探討就這個部分我們比較擔心的是當這一次在520的演講裡面像\n678140\t703995\t賴總統其實他在去年演講的時候他針對內容可能在提到中華民國的時候有九次中華民國台灣有三次台灣有79次中國則有七次中華人民共和國一次可是賴總統提到台灣跟中國的次數是遠遠超過蔡英文總統兩次的就職演說那在今年都沒有說我們剛剛提到的是\n705776\t710720\t賴總統之前在三月的時候把大陸定義為境外敵對勢力可是近期又有併購說這樣的說法這樣子我們會有點擔心甚至有一些看法會覺得說這個是不是在呼應川普總統之前說的統一與和平的說法\n724031\t727012\t我們現在姑且因為川普總統他沒有主持沒有錯我們也不想去依測可是就這個部分我們比較擔心的是當川普總統想要見習近平而且跟他做貿易談判或者甚至更多元的合作的\n742119\t746983\t當下台灣會不會被當成在這個中美討論的議題裡面我們成為籌碼這是我們比較擔憂的那這個部分國安團隊有什麼樣的看法或建議對 針對整體的美中關係的發展我想也跟委員說明一下結果上他們還是處在一個高度競爭的局面那川普的國安團隊對於怎麼樣反制中共在區域的擴張是投入了越來越多的資源這部分我們可以再跟委員做細部的報告\n770880\t784731\t至於我們剛剛所提到的在大環境之下海岸巡防這一部分的缺失怎麼樣來做更進一步的測定跟改善我們會持續的來提醒海巡署應該要做到相關的一個反戰缺失的一個彌補\n785872\t791136\t這個部分因為國安局畢竟是整個國安團隊的頭怎麼樣讓我們這個國安破口應該要找到一個非常有效的一個解決的方案請給我們委員會相關的這些資料把它收整以後因為我們不希望看到我們所有的報告每次都是例行性的或者在很多的媒體上面我們都可以看到的這些資料而是我們現在立即發生的國安的這些事件應該要注意的國安的議題應該要給\n815211\t819313\t我們委員會我們全體的委員或者甚至國人更清楚的知道那我們也希望說在現在賴總統他的演講裡面的那個歇委的這些差異不是歇委他非常大的這樣的差異他所會造成的影響會不會是因為受到其他外力的影響而做這些動作或決定這個也希望國安局可以密切的\n844866\t852701\t去提醒或者去做相對的研習委員提到重點我們來加強注意那委員假如需要任何的情思我們來提供給委員做參考謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 麻煩請局長\n好 謝謝主席 馬委員早局長早 局長許多委員大概今天都非常關心我們現在大陸由西部沿海紅色海灘偷渡入台的這個狀況到現在都沒有辦法遏止所以國安團隊其實是責無旁貸的大陸網紅打卡插旗這個已經嚴重影響到或打擊到國人對於國家安全的信心這非常嚴重所以我們剛剛提到的不管是像\n對岸的經濟狀況也好灰色洗腦也好這個都已經是現階段發生的可是我們更在乎的是我們要怎麼樣因應因為從16日桃園觀音地區又發生這個大陸人士以橡皮艇方式橫渡台灣海峽的這個偷渡事件它上岸的地點不但是國防部實彈演練的地點附近而且也是被視為中共侵台\n最有可能的登陸的紅色海灘這些都是重點區域而且這一次比較不同的甚至是父親帶著一個未成年的小孩他都可以在偷渡的地點休息一個晚上而且還自己自動投案\n隔日上午才投案,然後我們這個案子發生,這個相隔他們說才三個小時又有這個山東凱哥在社群公佈他的影片然後甚至在我們的這個風力發電桃園的這個海灘在風力發電機附近的沙灘插上五星旗幟拍\n這個已經非常的嚴重而且顯露出我們有非常大的國安的破口我們更在乎的其實是這些因為在大陸人士從新北到桃園一線這個紅色海灘或港口偷渡入台這個已經不是一次發生我們從去年五月到今年五月其實它總共如果連那個山東凱歌\n的事件他已經七件了我們還姑且不論其他中南部發生的事情也不論更早之前的就光是這一年其實他就有總共有七件所以局長這一次這個我們過去也質詢過很多類似這樣的事件那海巡署是說這個小艇或者橡皮艇他太小我們的岸置雷達沒有辦法偵測到\n可是我們看到一而再再而三的發生這個就好像中共解放軍對於我們國安團隊在給同一個考題一年內我們重考了六次還是不合格這是非常嚴重的問題所以我們要怎麼看待這個部分因為會被列為紅色海灘的這個地點或港口其實它很容易被解放軍登岸的這個地點一再的發生這樣的事情國人我相信非常難接受\n那國安局評估這樣子的狀況因為這些都還是他有主動投案那有沒有可能還有很多黑數就是他根本就上來了然後我們也不知道他可能就在我們的土地上面就在這裡可能逍遙自在那國安局有沒有評估投案直接進入台灣的大陸人就是沒有投案的直接進來的大概有多少\n那這些偷渡的它有多少比例是派來潛伏或者測試漏洞的?國安局有沒有針對這個做一些相關的評估?對,在我們國安情報團隊來講當然海巡署負責的就是海域的安全那我們的很重要的情治來源也是透過海巡署才辦法來掌握相關中共揮帶襲擾的動態那委員事實上講的沒有錯\n在最近這一陣子確實這樣的海上灰帶洗腦的案件是比較多那這也是尤其在520的前夕我們是本井神經在注意類似的案件那我不斷的在提醒海刑署就是說個案的調查歸個案的調查但是通案的檢討到底反戰過來我們的海岸巡防有哪些的漏洞包括到紅色海灘岸際的人員的配置跟巡查\n那以及怎麼樣來輔佐相關的科技的設備包括委員應該也有注意到他們現在正在建置紅外線的熱顯像系統等等那可能要有一個比較完整的一個規劃才有辦法來應對中共針對性的這些動作這個部分其實是不對的\n海巡署對媒體說要爭取相關的預算要積極建置紅外線熱像儀等暗海的這個監偵系統增加艦艇的這個能量還有提升立體徵收能力等等的設備要強化國土的防衛韌性可是海巡署爭取這個預算建置紅外線熱像儀這些其實早在105年以前就已經在規劃\n而且112年113年到114年都有購置而且現在也在使用過去為了提升立體徵收能力107年也買了20架的無人機使用數年以後就是從\n中部也好南部也好甚至在台北紅色海灘的這個部分一而再再而三的發生我們過去買的完全沒有用你已經使用了這好幾年了我剛剛念的這些年其實他們都有建制啊可是我們看不到它的一點功能\n所以他到底買來到底做什麼而且更好笑的是這個海巡署對媒體解釋說我們無人機只能在陣風五到六級以下海向穩定的時候使用那東北季風平均風力七級根本就飛不起來這個更可笑又可惡因為我們台灣周邊的海域本來我們的風力大概都是六七級以上尤其是在這個東北季風期間\n那我們當時在買的時候難道都沒有考慮到這些嗎尤其現在國防部買的全部都是六幾以下的那你以後怎麼樣面對這樣的環境所以不是我們沒有裝備不是我們是買了裝備沒有達到目標是不是應該對國人解釋而不是把這個用甩鍋給在野黨說沒有支持預算這不是笑話嗎\n那個從過去到現在熱血向於紅外線雷達還有所有的監偵系統還有像這個無人機全買了所以他應該要給國人交代的是為什麼買了這些花了這麼高額的預算而沒有達到目標而且讓對岸的人一而再再而三而且只是普通人他們就可以帶著小孩都可以上岸這非常離譜局長怎麼看\n這部分我們有跟海巡做一些了解我們也是有相關的一些疑問希望海巡來幫我們釐清他們對於一些採購的岸際的監偵的設備聽起來初步的部署重點都在外離島因為外離島當時最有這種比較微型或小型的橡皮艇來侵擾的狀況所以他們重點放在外離島這也不對本島的部分要加強部署這是我們得到的相關的資訊\n因為在過去你們要不要看一下我們接下來這個圖局長您看一下接下來這個圖你覺得有什麼樣的問題嗎\n這個就國安的角度啦 海巡署公開說明的簡報這個部分我們可以看得到 因為我剛剛也提到了無人機其實是有配置的所以它不會只有在外離島 因為它不是第一次發生所以當我們的紅色海灘 它經過這麼多次到現在還沒有建置 那完全說不過去 所以\n第一就是我們根本麻木不仁你到現在還在認為說我們現在都還沒有建制這是一個很大的問題第二個就是這個角度像這樣子的圖示局長認為合適嗎當很多我們委員在跟相關單位要資料的時候\n通常都是說這些都是機敏資料建置在哪裡這個都不可以給那個不可以給全部都是機敏的現在我們看這個圖局長有什麼看法這個圖主要講到未來的建置他們部署的地點局長你可能仔細看一下這個部分其實它的港口位置還有它的\n海岸線的位置其實都已經標示出來了它的相對位置你看左邊綠色的跟右邊綠色的這個部分就是我們雷達的兩個雷達站的位置它都標出來了未來要建的這個智慧型岸間監控系統\n還有紅外線熱影像系統這個兩個未來要建置的他也把距離跟參數都把它標示出來了像這樣子的一個狀況你公開給國人這個對岸看不到嗎那動不動如果我們委員會委員要相關的資料因為你如果沒有相關的資料你怎麼知道你的預算用的對或錯你怎麼知道你用的用\n用的結果它到底是什麼樣的成果從現在驗證大陸人士幫我們做了驗證我們過去到現在我們花了非常高的預算其實是不合格的而且一而再再而三的發生它現在不能只是怪其他的什麼灰色洗澡這個已經很久了不是現在才發生可是它居然可以在我們不斷的加強監控然後告訴國人說我們會有非常安全的這些防護\n之下其實它一直被突破這個是國安非常嚴重的破口局長要怎麼做我講基本上只要有一個案例只要有一個案例讓陸客偷渡上岸那就代表在海防上還是有盡盡撤進的空間那這部分我們來針對相關海防的一個疏失在跟海巡署來要求他們在相關的一個部署跟建設上還是要有一些比較具體的撤進的計畫\n好 局長因為我們現在今天為什麼特別又語重心長的講是與其要把自己國人都每一個都當成賊還不如把現在已經發生的危險好好的把它做好管控因為它才是我們立即的危險我們\n現在賴總統說我們的境外敵對勢力就是對岸那現在又說可以合併那你既是敵人又是合併現在大家也會覺得說這個在整體的那種不確定性上面因為大家不知道哪一個才是賴總統想要真正表達的這個部分我們可能有時間再繼續做探討就這個部分我們比較擔心的是當這一次在520的演講裡面像\n賴總統其實他在去年演講的時候他針對內容可能在提到中華民國的時候有九次中華民國台灣有三次台灣有79次中國則有七次中華人民共和國一次可是賴總統提到台灣跟中國的次數是遠遠超過蔡英文總統兩次的就職演說那在今年都沒有說我們剛剛提到的是\n賴總統之前在三月的時候把大陸定義為境外敵對勢力可是近期又有併購說這樣的說法這樣子我們會有點擔心甚至有一些看法會覺得說這個是不是在呼應川普總統之前說的統一與和平的說法\n我們現在姑且因為川普總統他沒有主持沒有錯我們也不想去依測可是就這個部分我們比較擔心的是當川普總統想要見習近平而且跟他做貿易談判或者甚至更多元的合作的\n當下台灣會不會被當成在這個中美討論的議題裡面我們成為籌碼這是我們比較擔憂的那這個部分國安團隊有什麼樣的看法或建議對 針對整體的美中關係的發展我想也跟委員說明一下結果上他們還是處在一個高度競爭的局面那川普的國安團隊對於怎麼樣反制中共在區域的擴張是投入了越來越多的資源這部分我們可以再跟委員做細部的報告\n至於我們剛剛所提到的在大環境之下海岸巡防這一部分的缺失怎麼樣來做更進一步的測定跟改善我們會持續的來提醒海巡署應該要做到相關的一個反戰缺失的一個彌補\n這個部分因為國安局畢竟是整個國安團隊的頭怎麼樣讓我們這個國安破口應該要找到一個非常有效的一個解決的方案請給我們委員會相關的這些資料把它收整以後因為我們不希望看到我們所有的報告每次都是例行性的或者在很多的媒體上面我們都可以看到的這些資料而是我們現在立即發生的國安的這些事件應該要注意的國安的議題應該要給\n我們委員會我們全體的委員或者甚至國人更清楚的知道那我們也希望說在現在賴總統他的演講裡面的那個歇委的這些差異不是歇委他非常大的這樣的差異他所會造成的影響會不會是因為受到其他外力的影響而做這些動作或決定這個也希望國安局可以密切的\n去提醒或者去做相對的研習委員提到重點我們來加強注意那委員假如需要任何的情思我們來提供給委員做參考謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.553 --> 00:01.077\n謝謝主席麻煩請局長\n\n00:07.935 --> 00:14.580\n好謝謝主席馬委員早局長早局長許多委員大概今天都非常關心我們現在大陸由西部沿海紅色海灘偷渡入台的這個狀況到現在都沒有辦法遏止所以國安團隊其實是責無旁貸的大陸網紅打卡插旗這個已經嚴重影響到或打擊到國人對於國家安全的信心這非常嚴重所以我們剛剛提到的不管是像\n\n00:38.898 --> 01:05.729\n對岸的經濟狀況也好灰色洗腦也好這個都已經是現階段發生的可是我們更在乎的是我們要怎麼樣因應因為從16日桃園觀音地區又發生這個大陸人士以橡皮艇方式橫渡台灣海峽的這個偷渡事件它上岸的地點不但是國防部實彈演練的地點附近而且也是被視為中共侵台\n\n01:06.209 --> 01:21.244\n最有可能的登陸的紅色海灘這些都是重點區域而且這一次比較不同的甚至是父親帶著一個未成年的小孩他都可以在偷渡的地點休息一個晚上而且還自己自動投案\n\n01:22.145 --> 01:24.007\n隔日上午才投案,然後我們這個案子發生,這個相隔他們說才三個小時又有這個山東凱哥在社群公佈他的影片然後甚至在我們的這個風力發電桃園的這個海灘在風力發電機附近的沙灘插上五星旗幟拍\n\n01:47.027 --> 02:09.416\n這個已經非常的嚴重而且顯露出我們有非常大的國安的破口我們更在乎的其實是這些因為在大陸人士從新北到桃園一線這個紅色海灘或港口偷渡入台這個已經不是一次發生我們從去年五月到今年五月其實它總共如果連那個山東凱歌\n\n02:10.916 --> 02:28.631\n的事件他已經七件了我們還姑且不論其他中南部發生的事情也不論更早之前的就光是這一年其實他就有總共有七件所以局長這一次這個我們過去也質詢過很多類似這樣的事件那海巡署是說這個小艇或者橡皮艇他太小我們的岸置雷達沒有辦法偵測到\n\n02:35.436 --> 02:40.500\n可是我們看到一而再再而三的發生這個就好像中共解放軍對於我們國安團隊在給同一個考題一年內我們重考了六次還是不合格這是非常嚴重的問題所以我們要怎麼看待這個部分因為會被列為紅色海灘的這個地點或港口其實它很容易被解放軍登岸的這個地點一再的發生這樣的事情國人我相信非常難接受\n\n03:05.177 --> 03:11.719\n那國安局評估這樣子的狀況因為這些都還是他有主動投案那有沒有可能還有很多黑數就是他根本就上來了然後我們也不知道他可能就在我們的土地上面就在這裡可能逍遙自在那國安局有沒有評估投案直接進入台灣的大陸人就是沒有投案的直接進來的大概有多少\n\n03:33.826 --> 03:56.945\n那這些偷渡的它有多少比例是派來潛伏或者測試漏洞的?國安局有沒有針對這個做一些相關的評估?對,在我們國安情報團隊來講當然海巡署負責的就是海域的安全那我們的很重要的情治來源也是透過海巡署才辦法來掌握相關中共揮帶襲擾的動態那委員事實上講的沒有錯\n\n03:59.867 --> 04:23.715\n在最近這一陣子確實這樣的海上灰帶洗腦的案件是比較多那這也是尤其在520的前夕我們是本井神經在注意類似的案件那我不斷的在提醒海刑署就是說個案的調查歸個案的調查但是通案的檢討到底反戰過來我們的海岸巡防有哪些的漏洞包括到紅色海灘岸際的人員的配置跟巡查\n\n04:24.255 --> 04:37.285\n那以及怎麼樣來輔佐相關的科技的設備包括委員應該也有注意到他們現在正在建置紅外線的熱顯像系統等等那可能要有一個比較完整的一個規劃才有辦法來應對中共針對性的這些動作這個部分其實是不對的\n\n04:40.799 --> 04:45.863\n海巡署對媒體說要爭取相關的預算要積極建置紅外線熱像儀等暗海的這個監偵系統增加艦艇的這個能量還有提升立體徵收能力等等的設備要強化國土的防衛韌性可是海巡署爭取這個預算建置紅外線熱像儀這些其實早在105年以前就已經在規劃\n\n05:04.099 --> 05:08.041\n而且112年113年到114年都有購置而且現在也在使用過去為了提升立體徵收能力107年也買了20架的無人機使用數年以後就是從\n\n05:19.665 --> 05:35.103\n中部也好南部也好甚至在台北紅色海灘的這個部分一而再再而三的發生我們過去買的完全沒有用你已經使用了這好幾年了我剛剛念的這些年其實他們都有建制啊可是我們看不到它的一點功能\n\n05:36.184 --> 05:40.386\n所以他到底買來到底做什麼而且更好笑的是這個海巡署對媒體解釋說我們無人機只能在陣風五到六級以下海向穩定的時候使用那東北季風平均風力七級根本就飛不起來這個更可笑又可惡因為我們台灣周邊的海域本來我們的風力大概都是六七級以上尤其是在這個東北季風期間\n\n06:04.255 --> 06:26.733\n那我們當時在買的時候難道都沒有考慮到這些嗎尤其現在國防部買的全部都是六幾以下的那你以後怎麼樣面對這樣的環境所以不是我們沒有裝備不是我們是買了裝備沒有達到目標是不是應該對國人解釋而不是把這個用甩鍋給在野黨說沒有支持預算這不是笑話嗎\n\n06:28.294 --> 06:37.119\n那個從過去到現在熱血向於紅外線雷達還有所有的監偵系統還有像這個無人機全買了所以他應該要給國人交代的是為什麼買了這些花了這麼高額的預算而沒有達到目標而且讓對岸的人一而再再而三而且只是普通人他們就可以帶著小孩都可以上岸這非常離譜局長怎麼看\n\n06:54.970 --> 07:21.045\n這部分我們有跟海巡做一些了解我們也是有相關的一些疑問希望海巡來幫我們釐清他們對於一些採購的岸際的監偵的設備聽起來初步的部署重點都在外離島因為外離島當時最有這種比較微型或小型的橡皮艇來侵擾的狀況所以他們重點放在外離島這也不對本島的部分要加強部署這是我們得到的相關的資訊\n\n07:21.445 --> 07:24.992\n因為在過去你們要不要看一下我們接下來這個圖局長您看一下接下來這個圖你覺得有什麼樣的問題嗎\n\n07:42.683 --> 07:56.590\n這個就國安的角度啦海巡署公開說明的簡報這個部分我們可以看得到因為我剛剛也提到了無人機其實是有配置的所以它不會只有在外離島因為它不是第一次發生所以當我們的紅色海灘它經過這麼多次到現在還沒有建置那完全說不過去所以\n\n08:03.573 --> 08:11.158\n第一就是我們根本麻木不仁你到現在還在認為說我們現在都還沒有建制這是一個很大的問題第二個就是這個角度像這樣子的圖示局長認為合適嗎當很多我們委員在跟相關單位要資料的時候\n\n08:27.629 --> 08:37.536\n通常都是說這些都是機敏資料建置在哪裡這個都不可以給那個不可以給全部都是機敏的現在我們看這個圖局長有什麼看法這個圖主要講到未來的建置他們部署的地點局長你可能仔細看一下這個部分其實它的港口位置還有它的\n\n08:54.619 --> 08:58.283\n海岸線的位置其實都已經標示出來了它的相對位置你看左邊綠色的跟右邊綠色的這個部分就是我們雷達的兩個雷達站的位置它都標出來了未來要建的這個智慧型岸間監控系統\n\n09:12.018 --> 09:16.762\n還有紅外線熱影像系統這個兩個未來要建置的他也把距離跟參數都把它標示出來了像這樣子的一個狀況你公開給國人這個對岸看不到嗎那動不動如果我們委員會委員要相關的資料因為你如果沒有相關的資料你怎麼知道你的預算用的對或錯你怎麼知道你用的用\n\n09:37.060 --> 09:57.569\n用的結果它到底是什麼樣的成果從現在驗證大陸人士幫我們做了驗證我們過去到現在我們花了非常高的預算其實是不合格的而且一而再再而三的發生它現在不能只是怪其他的什麼灰色洗澡這個已經很久了不是現在才發生可是它居然可以在我們不斷的加強監控然後告訴國人說我們會有非常安全的這些防護\n\n10:06.773 --> 10:31.392\n之下其實它一直被突破這個是國安非常嚴重的破口局長要怎麼做我講基本上只要有一個案例只要有一個案例讓陸客偷渡上岸那就代表在海防上還是有盡盡撤進的空間那這部分我們來針對相關海防的一個疏失在跟海巡署來要求他們在相關的一個部署跟建設上還是要有一些比較具體的撤進的計畫\n\n10:32.193 --> 10:46.767\n好局長因為我們現在今天為什麼特別又語重心長的講是與其要把自己國人都每一個都當成賊還不如把現在已經發生的危險好好的把它做好管控因為它才是我們立即的危險我們\n\n10:48.348 --> 10:52.610\n現在賴總統說我們的境外敵對勢力就是對岸那現在又說可以合併那你既是敵人又是合併現在大家也會覺得說這個在整體的那種不確定性上面因為大家不知道哪一個才是賴總統想要真正表達的這個部分我們可能有時間再繼續做探討就這個部分我們比較擔心的是當這一次在520的演講裡面像\n\n11:18.140 --> 11:43.995\n賴總統其實他在去年演講的時候他針對內容可能在提到中華民國的時候有九次中華民國台灣有三次台灣有79次中國則有七次中華人民共和國一次可是賴總統提到台灣跟中國的次數是遠遠超過蔡英文總統兩次的就職演說那在今年都沒有說我們剛剛提到的是\n\n11:45.776 --> 11:50.720\n賴總統之前在三月的時候把大陸定義為境外敵對勢力可是近期又有併購說這樣的說法這樣子我們會有點擔心甚至有一些看法會覺得說這個是不是在呼應川普總統之前說的統一與和平的說法\n\n12:04.031 --> 12:07.012\n我們現在姑且因為川普總統他沒有主持沒有錯我們也不想去依測可是就這個部分我們比較擔心的是當川普總統想要見習近平而且跟他做貿易談判或者甚至更多元的合作的\n\n12:22.119 --> 12:26.983\n當下台灣會不會被當成在這個中美討論的議題裡面我們成為籌碼這是我們比較擔憂的那這個部分國安團隊有什麼樣的看法或建議對針對整體的美中關係的發展我想也跟委員說明一下結果上他們還是處在一個高度競爭的局面那川普的國安團隊對於怎麼樣反制中共在區域的擴張是投入了越來越多的資源這部分我們可以再跟委員做細部的報告\n\n12:50.880 --> 13:04.731\n至於我們剛剛所提到的在大環境之下海岸巡防這一部分的缺失怎麼樣來做更進一步的測定跟改善我們會持續的來提醒海巡署應該要做到相關的一個反戰缺失的一個彌補\n\n13:05.872 --> 13:11.136\n這個部分因為國安局畢竟是整個國安團隊的頭怎麼樣讓我們這個國安破口應該要找到一個非常有效的一個解決的方案請給我們委員會相關的這些資料把它收整以後因為我們不希望看到我們所有的報告每次都是例行性的或者在很多的媒體上面我們都可以看到的這些資料而是我們現在立即發生的國安的這些事件應該要注意的國安的議題應該要給\n\n13:35.211 --> 13:39.313\n我們委員會我們全體的委員或者甚至國人更清楚的知道那我們也希望說在現在賴總統他的演講裡面的那個歇委的這些差異不是歇委他非常大的這樣的差異他所會造成的影響會不會是因為受到其他外力的影響而做這些動作或決定這個也希望國安局可以密切的\n\n14:04.866 --> 14:12.701\n去提醒或者去做相對的研習委員提到重點我們來加強注意那委員假如需要任何的情思我們來提供給委員做參考謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.553,"end":1.077,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請局長"},{"start":7.935,"end":14.58,"text":"好 謝謝主席 馬委員早局長早 局長許多委員大概今天都非常關心我們現在大陸由西部沿海紅色海灘偷渡入台的這個狀況到現在都沒有辦法遏止所以國安團隊其實是責無旁貸的大陸網紅打卡插旗這個已經嚴重影響到或打擊到國人對於國家安全的信心這非常嚴重所以我們剛剛提到的不管是像"},{"start":38.898,"end":65.729,"text":"對岸的經濟狀況也好灰色洗腦也好這個都已經是現階段發生的可是我們更在乎的是我們要怎麼樣因應因為從16日桃園觀音地區又發生這個大陸人士以橡皮艇方式橫渡台灣海峽的這個偷渡事件它上岸的地點不但是國防部實彈演練的地點附近而且也是被視為中共侵台"},{"start":66.209,"end":81.244,"text":"最有可能的登陸的紅色海灘這些都是重點區域而且這一次比較不同的甚至是父親帶著一個未成年的小孩他都可以在偷渡的地點休息一個晚上而且還自己自動投案"},{"start":82.145,"end":84.007,"text":"隔日上午才投案,然後我們這個案子發生,這個相隔他們說才三個小時又有這個山東凱哥在社群公佈他的影片然後甚至在我們的這個風力發電桃園的這個海灘在風力發電機附近的沙灘插上五星旗幟拍"},{"start":107.027,"end":129.416,"text":"這個已經非常的嚴重而且顯露出我們有非常大的國安的破口我們更在乎的其實是這些因為在大陸人士從新北到桃園一線這個紅色海灘或港口偷渡入台這個已經不是一次發生我們從去年五月到今年五月其實它總共如果連那個山東凱歌"},{"start":130.916,"end":148.631,"text":"的事件他已經七件了我們還姑且不論其他中南部發生的事情也不論更早之前的就光是這一年其實他就有總共有七件所以局長這一次這個我們過去也質詢過很多類似這樣的事件那海巡署是說這個小艇或者橡皮艇他太小我們的岸置雷達沒有辦法偵測到"},{"start":155.436,"end":160.5,"text":"可是我們看到一而再再而三的發生這個就好像中共解放軍對於我們國安團隊在給同一個考題一年內我們重考了六次還是不合格這是非常嚴重的問題所以我們要怎麼看待這個部分因為會被列為紅色海灘的這個地點或港口其實它很容易被解放軍登岸的這個地點一再的發生這樣的事情國人我相信非常難接受"},{"start":185.177,"end":191.719,"text":"那國安局評估這樣子的狀況因為這些都還是他有主動投案那有沒有可能還有很多黑數就是他根本就上來了然後我們也不知道他可能就在我們的土地上面就在這裡可能逍遙自在那國安局有沒有評估投案直接進入台灣的大陸人就是沒有投案的直接進來的大概有多少"},{"start":213.826,"end":236.945,"text":"那這些偷渡的它有多少比例是派來潛伏或者測試漏洞的?國安局有沒有針對這個做一些相關的評估?對,在我們國安情報團隊來講當然海巡署負責的就是海域的安全那我們的很重要的情治來源也是透過海巡署才辦法來掌握相關中共揮帶襲擾的動態那委員事實上講的沒有錯"},{"start":239.867,"end":263.715,"text":"在最近這一陣子確實這樣的海上灰帶洗腦的案件是比較多那這也是尤其在520的前夕我們是本井神經在注意類似的案件那我不斷的在提醒海刑署就是說個案的調查歸個案的調查但是通案的檢討到底反戰過來我們的海岸巡防有哪些的漏洞包括到紅色海灘岸際的人員的配置跟巡查"},{"start":264.255,"end":277.285,"text":"那以及怎麼樣來輔佐相關的科技的設備包括委員應該也有注意到他們現在正在建置紅外線的熱顯像系統等等那可能要有一個比較完整的一個規劃才有辦法來應對中共針對性的這些動作這個部分其實是不對的"},{"start":280.799,"end":285.863,"text":"海巡署對媒體說要爭取相關的預算要積極建置紅外線熱像儀等暗海的這個監偵系統增加艦艇的這個能量還有提升立體徵收能力等等的設備要強化國土的防衛韌性可是海巡署爭取這個預算建置紅外線熱像儀這些其實早在105年以前就已經在規劃"},{"start":304.099,"end":308.041,"text":"而且112年113年到114年都有購置而且現在也在使用過去為了提升立體徵收能力107年也買了20架的無人機使用數年以後就是從"},{"start":319.665,"end":335.103,"text":"中部也好南部也好甚至在台北紅色海灘的這個部分一而再再而三的發生我們過去買的完全沒有用你已經使用了這好幾年了我剛剛念的這些年其實他們都有建制啊可是我們看不到它的一點功能"},{"start":336.184,"end":340.386,"text":"所以他到底買來到底做什麼而且更好笑的是這個海巡署對媒體解釋說我們無人機只能在陣風五到六級以下海向穩定的時候使用那東北季風平均風力七級根本就飛不起來這個更可笑又可惡因為我們台灣周邊的海域本來我們的風力大概都是六七級以上尤其是在這個東北季風期間"},{"start":364.255,"end":386.733,"text":"那我們當時在買的時候難道都沒有考慮到這些嗎尤其現在國防部買的全部都是六幾以下的那你以後怎麼樣面對這樣的環境所以不是我們沒有裝備不是我們是買了裝備沒有達到目標是不是應該對國人解釋而不是把這個用甩鍋給在野黨說沒有支持預算這不是笑話嗎"},{"start":388.294,"end":397.119,"text":"那個從過去到現在熱血向於紅外線雷達還有所有的監偵系統還有像這個無人機全買了所以他應該要給國人交代的是為什麼買了這些花了這麼高額的預算而沒有達到目標而且讓對岸的人一而再再而三而且只是普通人他們就可以帶著小孩都可以上岸這非常離譜局長怎麼看"},{"start":414.97,"end":441.045,"text":"這部分我們有跟海巡做一些了解我們也是有相關的一些疑問希望海巡來幫我們釐清他們對於一些採購的岸際的監偵的設備聽起來初步的部署重點都在外離島因為外離島當時最有這種比較微型或小型的橡皮艇來侵擾的狀況所以他們重點放在外離島這也不對本島的部分要加強部署這是我們得到的相關的資訊"},{"start":441.445,"end":444.992,"text":"因為在過去你們要不要看一下我們接下來這個圖局長您看一下接下來這個圖你覺得有什麼樣的問題嗎"},{"start":462.683,"end":476.59,"text":"這個就國安的角度啦 海巡署公開說明的簡報這個部分我們可以看得到 因為我剛剛也提到了無人機其實是有配置的所以它不會只有在外離島 因為它不是第一次發生所以當我們的紅色海灘 它經過這麼多次到現在還沒有建置 那完全說不過去 所以"},{"start":483.573,"end":491.158,"text":"第一就是我們根本麻木不仁你到現在還在認為說我們現在都還沒有建制這是一個很大的問題第二個就是這個角度像這樣子的圖示局長認為合適嗎當很多我們委員在跟相關單位要資料的時候"},{"start":507.629,"end":517.536,"text":"通常都是說這些都是機敏資料建置在哪裡這個都不可以給那個不可以給全部都是機敏的現在我們看這個圖局長有什麼看法這個圖主要講到未來的建置他們部署的地點局長你可能仔細看一下這個部分其實它的港口位置還有它的"},{"start":534.619,"end":538.283,"text":"海岸線的位置其實都已經標示出來了它的相對位置你看左邊綠色的跟右邊綠色的這個部分就是我們雷達的兩個雷達站的位置它都標出來了未來要建的這個智慧型岸間監控系統"},{"start":552.018,"end":556.762,"text":"還有紅外線熱影像系統這個兩個未來要建置的他也把距離跟參數都把它標示出來了像這樣子的一個狀況你公開給國人這個對岸看不到嗎那動不動如果我們委員會委員要相關的資料因為你如果沒有相關的資料你怎麼知道你的預算用的對或錯你怎麼知道你用的用"},{"start":577.06,"end":597.569,"text":"用的結果它到底是什麼樣的成果從現在驗證大陸人士幫我們做了驗證我們過去到現在我們花了非常高的預算其實是不合格的而且一而再再而三的發生它現在不能只是怪其他的什麼灰色洗澡這個已經很久了不是現在才發生可是它居然可以在我們不斷的加強監控然後告訴國人說我們會有非常安全的這些防護"},{"start":606.773,"end":631.392,"text":"之下其實它一直被突破這個是國安非常嚴重的破口局長要怎麼做我講基本上只要有一個案例只要有一個案例讓陸客偷渡上岸那就代表在海防上還是有盡盡撤進的空間那這部分我們來針對相關海防的一個疏失在跟海巡署來要求他們在相關的一個部署跟建設上還是要有一些比較具體的撤進的計畫"},{"start":632.193,"end":646.767,"text":"好 局長因為我們現在今天為什麼特別又語重心長的講是與其要把自己國人都每一個都當成賊還不如把現在已經發生的危險好好的把它做好管控因為它才是我們立即的危險我們"},{"start":648.348,"end":652.61,"text":"現在賴總統說我們的境外敵對勢力就是對岸那現在又說可以合併那你既是敵人又是合併現在大家也會覺得說這個在整體的那種不確定性上面因為大家不知道哪一個才是賴總統想要真正表達的這個部分我們可能有時間再繼續做探討就這個部分我們比較擔心的是當這一次在520的演講裡面像"},{"start":678.14,"end":703.995,"text":"賴總統其實他在去年演講的時候他針對內容可能在提到中華民國的時候有九次中華民國台灣有三次台灣有79次中國則有七次中華人民共和國一次可是賴總統提到台灣跟中國的次數是遠遠超過蔡英文總統兩次的就職演說那在今年都沒有說我們剛剛提到的是"},{"start":705.776,"end":710.72,"text":"賴總統之前在三月的時候把大陸定義為境外敵對勢力可是近期又有併購說這樣的說法這樣子我們會有點擔心甚至有一些看法會覺得說這個是不是在呼應川普總統之前說的統一與和平的說法"},{"start":724.031,"end":727.012,"text":"我們現在姑且因為川普總統他沒有主持沒有錯我們也不想去依測可是就這個部分我們比較擔心的是當川普總統想要見習近平而且跟他做貿易談判或者甚至更多元的合作的"},{"start":742.119,"end":746.983,"text":"當下台灣會不會被當成在這個中美討論的議題裡面我們成為籌碼這是我們比較擔憂的那這個部分國安團隊有什麼樣的看法或建議對 針對整體的美中關係的發展我想也跟委員說明一下結果上他們還是處在一個高度競爭的局面那川普的國安團隊對於怎麼樣反制中共在區域的擴張是投入了越來越多的資源這部分我們可以再跟委員做細部的報告"},{"start":770.88,"end":784.731,"text":"至於我們剛剛所提到的在大環境之下海岸巡防這一部分的缺失怎麼樣來做更進一步的測定跟改善我們會持續的來提醒海巡署應該要做到相關的一個反戰缺失的一個彌補"},{"start":785.872,"end":791.136,"text":"這個部分因為國安局畢竟是整個國安團隊的頭怎麼樣讓我們這個國安破口應該要找到一個非常有效的一個解決的方案請給我們委員會相關的這些資料把它收整以後因為我們不希望看到我們所有的報告每次都是例行性的或者在很多的媒體上面我們都可以看到的這些資料而是我們現在立即發生的國安的這些事件應該要注意的國安的議題應該要給"},{"start":815.211,"end":819.313,"text":"我們委員會我們全體的委員或者甚至國人更清楚的知道那我們也希望說在現在賴總統他的演講裡面的那個歇委的這些差異不是歇委他非常大的這樣的差異他所會造成的影響會不會是因為受到其他外力的影響而做這些動作或決定這個也希望國安局可以密切的"},{"start":844.866,"end":852.701,"text":"去提醒或者去做相對的研習委員提到重點我們來加強注意那委員假如需要任何的情思我們來提供給委員做參考謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":176,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（10時）謝謝主席，麻煩請局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，馬委員早。"],["馬委員文君：局長早。局長，許多委員今天都非常關心大陸由西部沿海紅色海灘偷渡入臺的狀況，到現在都沒有辦法遏止，所以國安團隊其實是責無旁貸的，大陸網紅打卡、插旗，這個已經嚴重影響或打擊到國人對於國家安全的信心，這非常嚴重！所以我們剛剛提到的，不管是對岸的經濟狀況也好，灰帶襲擾也好，這個都已經是現階段發生的，可是我們更在乎的是，我們要怎麼樣因應？因為16日桃園觀音地區又發生大陸人士以橡皮艇方式橫渡臺灣海峽的偷渡事件，他上岸的地點不但在國防部實彈演練的地點附近，而且也是被視為中共侵臺最有可能登陸的紅色海灘，這些都是重點區域，而且這一次比較不同的，甚至是父親帶著一個未成年的小孩，他們都可以在偷渡地點休息一個晚上，而且還自己自動投案，隔日上午才投案，然後這個案子發生後才相隔三個小時，又有山東凱哥在社群公布他的影片，甚至在桃園風力發電機附近的沙灘插上五星旗自拍，這個已經非常的嚴重，而且顯露出我們有非常大的國安破口，我們更在乎的其實是這些。因為大陸人士從新北到桃園一線紅色海灘或港口偷渡入臺，這個已經不是第一次發生，從去年5月到今年5月，如果連山東凱哥的事件都算進去，已經發生了7件，我們還姑且不論其他中南部發生的事情，也不論更早之前的，光是這一年就總共有7件。","局長，我們過去也質詢過很多類似這樣的事件，海巡署是說，小艇或者橡皮艇太小，我們的岸置雷達沒有辦法偵測到。可是我們看到這一而再、再而三的發生，就好像中共解放軍對我們國安團隊出了同一個考題，一年內我們重考了6次，還是不合格，這是非常嚴重的問題。所以我們要怎麼看待這個部分？因為會被列為紅色海灘的地點或港口，其實就是很容易被解放軍登岸的地點，卻一再的發生這樣事情，我相信國人非常難接受。國安局評估這樣子的狀況，因為這些都還是他有主動投案，有沒有可能還有很多黑數？就是他根本就上來了，然後我們也不知道，他可能就在我們的土地上面逍遙自在，國安局有沒有評估過沒有投案直接進入臺灣的大陸人大概有多少？這些偷渡的有多少比例是派來潛伏或者測試漏洞的？國安局有沒有針對這個做一些相關的評估？"],["蔡局長明彥：在我們國安情報團隊來講，當然海巡署負責的就是海域的安全，我們很重要的情資來源也是透過海巡署才有辦法來掌握相關中共灰帶襲擾的動態，事實上委員講得沒有錯，最近這一陣子這樣的海上灰帶襲擾的案件是比較多，尤其在520前夕，我們是繃緊神經在注意類似的案件。我也不斷的在提醒海巡署，個案的調查歸個案的調查，但是通案的檢討，到底反覘過來，我們的海岸巡防有哪些漏洞？包括到紅色海灘、岸際人員的配置跟巡查，以及怎麼樣來輔佐相關的科技設備，包括委員應該也有注意到，他們現在正在建置紅外線熱顯像系統等等，可能要有一個比較完整的規劃，才有辦法來應對中共這些針對性的動作。"],["馬委員文君：局長，這個部分其實是不對的，海巡署對媒體說，要爭取相關預算，積極建置紅外線熱顯像儀等岸海監偵系統、增加艦艇能量及提升立體偵蒐能力等設備，強化國土防衛韌性。海巡署爭取這個預算要建置紅外線熱顯像儀，但其實這些早在105年以前就已經在規劃了，112年、113年到114年都有購置，而且現在也在使用。過去為了提升立體偵蒐能力，107年也買了20架無人機，使用數年以後，從中部也好、南部也好，甚至在臺北紅色海灘的部分，卻一而再、再而三的發生，我們過去買的完全沒有用，你已經使用了好幾年，我剛剛唸的這些年，其實他們都有建置啊！可是我們看不到它的一點功能，所以到底買來做什麼？","而且更好笑的是，海巡署對媒體解釋，我們無人機只能在陣風5到6級以下海象穩定的時候使用，東北季風平均風力7級，根本就飛不起來。這個更可笑又可惡，因為我們臺灣周邊的海域本來的風力大概都是6、7級以上，尤其是在東北季風期間，我們當時在買的時候，難道都沒有考慮到這些嗎？尤其現在國防部買的全部都是6級以下的，那你以後怎麼樣面對這樣的環境？所以不是我們沒有裝備，我們是買了裝備沒有達到目標，是不是應該對國人解釋，而不是把這個又甩鍋給是在野黨沒有支持預算，這不是笑話嗎？從過去到現在，熱顯像儀、紅外線、雷達以及所有的監偵系統，包括無人機，全買了，所以他應該要跟國人交代的是，為什麼買了這些、花了這麼高額的預算，卻沒有達到目標，還讓對岸的人一而再、再而三的偷渡過來，而且還只是普通人，他們連帶著小孩都可以上岸，這非常離譜！局長怎麼看？"],["蔡局長明彥：關於這部分，我們有跟海巡做一些了解，我們也是有相關的疑問，希望海巡來幫我們釐清。他們對於一些採購的岸際監偵設備，聽起來初步的部署重點都在外離島，因為外離島當時最有這種比較微型或小型的橡皮艇來侵擾的狀況，所以他們重點是放在外離島，接下來可能在本島的部分要加強部署，這是我們得到的相關資訊。"],["馬委員文君：局長，這也不對！你們要不要看一下接下來這張圖？局長，你看一下這張圖，你覺得有什麼樣的問題嗎？就國安的角度，從海巡署公開說明的簡報我們可以看到，因為我剛才也提到無人機其實是有配置的，所以它不會只有在外離島，因為這不是第一次發生，所以當我們的紅色海灘經過這麼多次的侵擾，到現在還沒有建置，這完全說不過去，所以第一個，就是你們根本麻木不仁，到現在海巡還會認為我們現在都還沒有建置，這是一個很大的問題。第二個，就這個角度，像這樣子的圖示，局長認為合適嗎？當很多委員在跟相關單位要資料的時候，通常都是說，這些都是機敏資料，建置在哪裡，這個不可以給，那個不可以給，全部都是機敏的。現在我們看這張圖，局長有什麼看法？"],["蔡局長明彥：這張圖主要講到的是未來的建置、他們部署的地點。"],["馬委員文君：局長可以仔細看一下，這個部分其實已經把港口位置及海岸線位置都標示出來了，它的相對位置，你看左邊綠色跟右邊綠色的部分就是我們兩個雷達站的位置，他都標出來了，未來要建的智慧型岸際監控系統和紅外線熱顯像系統，他也把距離跟參數都標示出來了，像這樣的狀況，你公開給國人，對岸看不到嗎？我們委員會或委員要相關的資料，如果沒有相關的資料，我們怎麼知道你的預算用得對或錯、怎麼知道到底會有什麼樣的成果，現在大陸人士幫我們做了驗證，從過去到現在我們花了非常高的預算，其實是不合格的，而且一而再、再而三的發生。現在不能只是怪什麼灰色襲擾，這個已經很久了，不是現在才發生，可是居然在我們不斷加強監控，告訴國人說我們會有非常安全的防護之下，其實它一直被突破，這個是非常嚴重的國安破口，局長要怎麼做？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我想基本上只要有一個案例，讓陸客偷渡上岸，那就代表在海防上還是有精進、策進的空間，我們針對海防相關的疏失，會再要求海巡署在相關的部署跟建置上，還是要有一些比較具體的策進計畫。"],["馬委員文君：好，局長，今天我為什麼特別又語重心長的講，與其把每一個國人都當成賊，還不如針對現在已經發生的危險做好管控？因為它才是我們立即的危險。賴總統說我們的境外敵對勢力就是對岸，現在又說可以合併，那既是敵人又是合併，大家也會感覺到整體的不確定性，因為大家不知道哪一個才是賴總統真正想要表達的，這個部分我們有時間再繼續探討。現在我們比較擔心的是這一次520賴總統的演講，他去年演講的內容有9次提到中華民國，中華民國臺灣有3次，臺灣有79次，中國則有7次，中華人民共和國1次，賴總統提到臺灣跟中國的次數遠遠超過蔡英文總統兩次的就職演說，但在今年都沒有說。我們剛剛提到的是賴總統之前在3月的時候把大陸定義為境外敵對勢力，可是近期又有併購這樣的說法，這樣我們會有點擔心，甚至有一些人的看法是，這是不是在呼應川普總統之前說的統一與和平的說法？因為川普總統沒有主詞，沒有錯，我們也不想去臆測，可是就這個部分，我們比較擔心的是，當川普總統想要見習近平，跟他進行做貿易談判甚至更多元合作的當下，臺灣會不會成為中美談判中的籌碼？這是我們比較擔憂的。對這個部分國安團隊有什麼樣的看法或建議？"],["蔡局長明彥：針對整體的美中關係發展，我也跟委員說明一下，結構上他們還是處在一個高度競爭的局面，川普的國安團隊對於怎麼樣反制中共在區域的擴張，投入越來越多的資源，這部分我們可以再跟委員做細部的報告。至於委員剛剛所提到的，在大環境之下海岸巡防這部分的缺失怎麼樣來做更進一步的策進跟改善，我們會持續的來提醒海巡署應該要做到相關反覘缺失的彌補。"],["馬委員文君：國安局畢竟是整個國安團隊的頭，怎麼樣讓這個國安破口得到非常有效的解決方案，請給我們委員會相關的資料，因為我們不希望看到所有的報告每次都是例行性的，或者是在很多媒體上都可以看到的，而是現在發生的國安事件、應該要注意的國安議題，應該要讓我們委員會全體委員甚至國人更清楚的知道。"],["蔡局長明彥：好。"],["馬委員文君：我們也希望了解賴總統在演講裡面那些非常大的差異，是不是因為受到其他外力的影響而做這些動作或決定，這個也希望國安局可以密切的去提醒或做相對的研析。"],["蔡局長明彥：委員提到的重點我們來加強注意，委員假如需要任何情資，我們來提供給委員做參考。"],["馬委員文君：好，謝謝。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝馬委員，謝謝蔡局長。","接下來請陳冠廷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":42,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-16","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王定宇","林憶君","陳培瑜","陳永康"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國家安全局預算凍結案等24案","agenda_id":"1145201_00001"}}}