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謝委員的提醒也很有系統的把問題給呈現出來那大概分為幾個部分那第二部分是因為這些展演的活動它很多的承包的這些公關公司它有的是境外的公司那它切票以及相關購票的運作都是在網路上運作\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 330.61, \"end\": 330.89, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 330.89, \"end\": 331.451, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 331.451, \"end\": 331.651, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 331.651, \"end\": 332.011, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 332.011, \"end\": 332.171, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 332.171, \"end\": 332.311, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 332.311, \"end\": 332.431, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 332.431, \"end\": 332.711, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 332.711, \"end\": 332.832, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 332.832, \"end\": 333.652, 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\"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 546.299, \"end\": 546.54, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 546.54, \"end\": 546.56, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,731\n謝謝主席辛苦了邀請蔡局長請蔡局長好謝謝主席林委員早局長我要問的問題可能跟前面的委員都不太一樣但是我的這個題目呢我想國安局應該已經都知道了那就是從今年的兩個禮拜開始之後其實有非常多立法院的委員都在關心那就是一文滲透是不是成為另外一個破口\n\n2\n00:00:27,785 --> 00:00:35,891\n那本席過去當然非常關注的就是中國透過像剛剛冠尼委員講到的不論是抖音或者是像柔媒體的所謂中央廚房那麼在之前我質詢黃副局長的時候他也有講到在台灣大概有40個左右的這種所謂在地協力者的媒體那麼中國的所謂滲透或者是入侵可以說是方方面面啦那麼\n\n3\n00:00:54,686 --> 00:00:58,929\n我不知道局長是不是你們已經開始在關注這個問題那就是如果說現在隨著這些藝文展演國外的藝文展演來到台灣之後那麼中國透過中資的公司拿到這些藝文展演的代理權然後帶了人進來台灣之後那麼他因為\n\n4\n00:01:18,183 --> 00:01:26,733\n他是出職者所以變成是他設定了所有的遊戲規則包括今年二月在高雄的這個韓星Rand的演唱會不能拿台灣的小物的字樣然後出現在裡頭\n\n5\n00:01:34,122 --> 00:02:00,430\n又或者是說在6月7號即將舉行的這個泰國明星的這個所謂見面會那麼他有中國的背景的公司我想問一下局長因為這其實已經有好幾個委員在關注了那麼主管機關當然是文化部那麼如果說文化部目前他們有沒有跟國安局這裡你們已經有一個小組來進行研擬或研究\n\n6\n00:02:01,431 --> 00:02:19,429\n這部分跟委員說明一下就原則上初期來講認為說這種比較像是商業的非法的活動所以現在我們開始的是從這個傳統角度以外從國安的角度來看這種所謂的非法的商業活動背後有沒有一些國安的疑慮那我們已經\n\n7\n00:02:19,989 --> 00:02:31,715\n你們會不會認為這是一個樣態必須要關注因為已經有不少委員在提醒我們這件事所以有在注意那也跟警政署這邊有建立一個協調的機制針對這一類案件怎麼樣來查處那一般可以查處運用的法規可能包括到文化產業創意發展法還有洗錢防治法這一類的法規規定讓警政署相關單位在查處過程當中有一個相關的法源依據來做處理這部分我們來注意\n\n8\n00:02:46,462 --> 00:03:02,729\n我要討論的是說像這種有中資的背景的當然他可能就馬上涉及兩岸人民關係條例的33之一相關的這個所謂跟黨政軍背景合作的背景不可以合作的部分但是本席要指出的是另外一個我非常關注的問題是\n\n9\n00:03:04,190 --> 00:03:25,980\n在以這個泰星來的這個所謂粉絲見面會啦這樣的活動當中台灣是5月10號才售票可是中國的黃牛在4月30號它就已經開賣了所以顯然在這個中資背景的時候它另闢了一個管道把票切給了中國我要提醒的是說因為這樣的一場見面會到底有多少張票\n\n10\n00:03:30,663 --> 00:03:49,288\n局長不知道我不知道粉絲不知道但是主辦單位知道而因為我們現在要抓黃牛所以我們需要實名制所以請你看一下這個在中國境內的主辦單位他所定下來的是說你要提供觀影人的姓名電話還有觀影人的護照\n\n11\n00:03:55,290 --> 00:04:00,491\n那這個有兩個層面第一個層面是要入境台灣的人他要想辦法把他帶進來但是目前我們用這個所謂看演唱會不是一個他們可以入境的方式這個有一個第一個問題是是不是有所謂的集團性造假訪台這是一個問題第二個是就像我剛剛講的有很多粉絲擔心的是票切出去了我買不到票\n\n12\n00:04:20,936 --> 00:04:23,580\n所以我就要跟這一個中國的黃牛買票那這個時候問題就來了是不是我們台灣人民的姓名電話還有就是我們的相關的個資就落到中國的手上\n\n13\n00:04:36,377 --> 00:05:02,396\n那這是兩個層面的問題而這個已經是形同資安破口這跟前面剛剛我們講的它是商業展演商業展演它有很多的這種所謂不妨礙民間交流的問題但是本席現在要點出的就是第一當它在海外拿到了這樣的所謂演唱會之後多少票你不知道它賣了多少錢你也不知道那麼\n\n14\n00:05:03,937 --> 00:05:19,765\n到時候他會帶多少人進來或者是我們多少的個資留到他的手上這會是一個問題所以我想要提醒如果真的是這樣他不只是還有個資喔還有包括信用卡的相關資料因為他刷卡他會需要戶頭那麼這個時候我想問局長他算不算是一個國安一律的活動而且很有可能出現一個大禍口\n\n15\n00:05:30,610 --> 00:05:46,861\n針對這個問題謝委員的提醒也很有系統的把問題給呈現出來那大概分為幾個部分那第二部分是因為這些展演的活動它很多的承包的這些公關公司它有的是境外的公司那它切票以及相關購票的運作都是在網路上運作\n\n16\n00:05:48,382 --> 00:06:16,221\n所以在執法上確實有他的困難存在但是我們要注意的大概有兩個的重點第二重點是當他透過這些售票行為而籌組一些所謂的追星團入境台灣過程當中我們會提醒移民署來注意有沒有一些相關可能為異常的人士也藉由這樣的機會入境台灣以所謂的文化或演藝交流的名義入境台灣從事相關的活動這是我們國安團隊第一個要注意的重點那第二\n\n17\n00:06:16,721 --> 00:06:32,413\n要注意的重點是委員剛剛有很清楚的指出來有些委員利用這個機會來揭露讓我們的消費者也可以注意到在網路上跟這些境外的公關或行銷公司來訂票的過程當中個人的個資或信用卡的資料會不會外洩外流\n\n18\n00:06:33,154 --> 00:06:50,791\n而在中共的中國大陸這些廠商甚至再把你的資料外流而造成了很多網路或電信詐騙把你當成是詐騙的對象所以這部分可能現階段比較能夠做的是透過這樣的揭露跟公開的討論讓民眾可以有這方面的知覺有警覺意識來避免第二種狀況的發生\n\n19\n00:06:51,892 --> 00:07:12,600\n好因為本席也是最新人喔所以我也知道其實如果有時候到海外去聽演唱會你也必須透過海外的這種所謂售票或訂票系統那麼當然這個只能自己小心不要誤觸一些就像局長所講的這種詐騙陷阱或是釣魚陷阱而去輸入了個人的信用卡或相關的資訊但是本席要提醒的是說這個是在台灣內部的一個\n\n20\n00:07:16,041 --> 00:07:20,684\n所謂展演行為商業行為但是你會發現主辦單位疑似把票已經切到境外他用的不是台灣境內的售票系統我站在維護台灣的權益的部分那就是我剛剛講的這個票到底是多少你不知道那麼他如果這種所謂的交易行為都在海外發生了\n\n21\n00:07:38,396 --> 00:07:43,501\n那是不是表示我們連抽到稅都抽不到我們連營業稅都抽不到如果今天這個售票行為是用台灣的售票系統那麼至少我們可以對於這個公司我們可以刻意營業稅所以我也請局長跟相關的財經部會包括財政部相關來研擬就是這個有沒有逃漏稅的問題\n\n22\n00:08:02,580 --> 00:08:09,005\n因為等於是說大量的票而且價格很高它發生在海外那這個就是境外那同樣在台灣展演的活動為什麼在海外消費我們連國庫一毛錢都抽不到那這個部分也是本席提醒的就是如果就國安的問題包括資料的揭露的問題我們無法避免這樣的消費行為但是我們至少可以要求這種交易的行為要發生在台灣而不是一個境外的\n\n23\n00:08:31,144 --> 00:08:52,194\n那我們連稅都抽不到那這也是一個本席可以提醒也許國安單位可以跟財政跟金融相關的單位這個有關於雇屬等等來討論這個方向也許它也是一個我們來杜絕台灣人民因為要去聽國外的追星的演唱會而必須把個資或者是所有的交易行為留在境外的部分\n\n24\n00:08:52,642 --> 00:09:06,560\n好這部分我們謝謝委員的提醒我們來跟相關部會來研議看法律上怎麼來處理那另外法務部這邊也可以來切入的角度是有沒有涉及到洗錢防治這部分的問題我們一起整併來跟相關部會做討論謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t2731\t謝謝主席 辛苦了 邀請蔡局長請蔡局長好 謝謝主席 林委員早局長 我要問的問題可能跟前面的委員都不太一樣但是我的這個題目呢我想國安局應該已經都知道了那就是從今年的兩個禮拜開始之後其實有非常多立法院的委員都在關心那就是一文滲透是不是成為另外一個破口\n27785\t35891\t那本席過去當然非常關注的就是中國透過像剛剛冠尼委員講到的不論是抖音或者是像柔媒體的所謂中央廚房那麼在之前我質詢黃副局長的時候他也有講到在台灣大概有40個左右的這種所謂在地協力者的媒體那麼中國的所謂滲透或者是入侵可以說是方方面面啦那麼\n54686\t58929\t我不知道局長是不是你們已經開始在關注這個問題那就是如果說現在隨著這些藝文展演國外的藝文展演來到台灣之後那麼中國透過中資的公司拿到這些藝文展演的代理權然後帶了人進來台灣之後那麼他因為\n78183\t86733\t他是出職者所以變成是他設定了所有的遊戲規則包括今年二月在高雄的這個韓星Rand的演唱會不能拿台灣的小物的字樣然後出現在裡頭\n94122\t120430\t又或者是說在6月7號即將舉行的這個泰國明星的這個所謂見面會那麼他有中國的背景的公司我想問一下局長因為這其實已經有好幾個委員在關注了那麼主管機關當然是文化部那麼如果說文化部目前他們有沒有跟國安局這裡你們已經有一個小組來進行研擬或研究\n121431\t139429\t這部分跟委員說明一下就原則上初期來講認為說這種比較像是商業的非法的活動所以現在我們開始的是從這個傳統角度以外從國安的角度來看這種所謂的非法的商業活動背後有沒有一些國安的疑慮那我們已經\n139989\t151715\t你們會不會認為這是一個樣態必須要關注因為已經有不少委員在提醒我們這件事所以有在注意那也跟警政署這邊有建立一個協調的機制針對這一類案件怎麼樣來查處那一般可以查處運用的法規可能包括到文化產業創意發展法還有洗錢防治法這一類的法規規定讓警政署相關單位在查處過程當中有一個相關的法源依據來做處理這部分我們來注意\n166462\t182729\t我要討論的是說像這種有中資的背景的當然他可能就馬上涉及兩岸人民關係條例的33之一相關的這個所謂跟黨政軍背景合作的背景不可以合作的部分但是本席要指出的是另外一個我非常關注的問題是\n184190\t205980\t在以這個泰星來的這個所謂粉絲見面會啦這樣的活動當中台灣是5月10號才售票可是中國的黃牛在4月30號它就已經開賣了所以顯然在這個中資背景的時候它另闢了一個管道把票切給了中國我要提醒的是說因為這樣的一場見面會到底有多少張票\n210663\t229288\t局長不知道 我不知道 粉絲不知道 但是主辦單位知道而因為我們現在要抓黃牛 所以我們需要實名制所以請你看一下 這個在中國境內的主辦單位他所定下來的是說 你要提供觀影人的姓名 電話 還有觀影人的護照\n235290\t240491\t那這個有兩個層面第一個層面是要入境台灣的人他要想辦法把他帶進來但是目前我們用這個所謂看演唱會不是一個他們可以入境的方式這個有一個第一個問題是是不是有所謂的集團性造假訪台這是一個問題第二個是就像我剛剛講的有很多粉絲擔心的是票切出去了我買不到票\n260936\t263580\t所以我就要跟這一個中國的黃牛買票那這個時候問題就來了是不是我們台灣人民的姓名電話還有就是我們的相關的個資就落到中國的手上\n276377\t302396\t那這是兩個層面的問題而這個已經是形同資安破口這跟前面剛剛我們講的它是商業展演商業展演它有很多的這種所謂不妨礙民間交流的問題但是本席現在要點出的就是第一當它在海外拿到了這樣的所謂演唱會之後多少票你不知道它賣了多少錢你也不知道那麼\n303937\t319765\t到時候他會帶多少人進來或者是我們多少的個資留到他的手上這會是一個問題所以我想要提醒如果真的是這樣他不只是還有個資喔還有包括信用卡的相關資料因為他刷卡他會需要戶頭那麼這個時候我想問局長他算不算是一個國安一律的活動而且很有可能出現一個大禍口\n330610\t346861\t針對這個問題 謝委員的提醒也很有系統的把問題給呈現出來那大概分為幾個部分那第二部分是因為這些展演的活動它很多的承包的這些公關公司它有的是境外的公司那它切票以及相關購票的運作都是在網路上運作\n348382\t376221\t所以在執法上確實有他的困難存在但是我們要注意的大概有兩個的重點第二重點是當他透過這些售票行為而籌組一些所謂的追星團入境台灣過程當中我們會提醒移民署來注意有沒有一些相關可能為異常的人士也藉由這樣的機會入境台灣以所謂的文化或演藝交流的名義入境台灣從事相關的活動這是我們國安團隊第一個要注意的重點那第二\n376721\t392413\t要注意的重點是委員剛剛有很清楚的指出來有些委員利用這個機會來揭露讓我們的消費者也可以注意到在網路上跟這些境外的公關或行銷公司來訂票的過程當中個人的個資或信用卡的資料會不會外洩外流\n393154\t410791\t而在中共的中國大陸這些廠商甚至再把你的資料外流而造成了很多網路或電信詐騙把你當成是詐騙的對象所以這部分可能現階段比較能夠做的是透過這樣的揭露跟公開的討論讓民眾可以有這方面的知覺有警覺意識來避免第二種狀況的發生\n411892\t432600\t好因為本席也是最新人喔所以我也知道其實如果有時候到海外去聽演唱會你也必須透過海外的這種所謂售票或訂票系統那麼當然這個只能自己小心不要誤觸一些就像局長所講的這種詐騙陷阱或是釣魚陷阱而去輸入了個人的信用卡或相關的資訊但是本席要提醒的是說這個是在台灣內部的一個\n436041\t440684\t所謂展演行為商業行為但是你會發現主辦單位疑似把票已經切到境外他用的不是台灣境內的售票系統我站在維護台灣的權益的部分那就是我剛剛講的這個票到底是多少你不知道那麼他如果這種所謂的交易行為都在海外發生了\n458396\t463501\t那是不是表示我們連抽到稅都抽不到我們連營業稅都抽不到如果今天這個售票行為是用台灣的售票系統那麼至少我們可以對於這個公司我們可以刻意營業稅所以我也請局長跟相關的財經部會包括財政部相關來研擬就是這個有沒有逃漏稅的問題\n482580\t489005\t因為等於是說大量的票而且價格很高它發生在海外那這個就是境外那同樣在台灣展演的活動為什麼在海外消費我們連國庫一毛錢都抽不到那這個部分也是本席提醒的就是如果就國安的問題包括資料的揭露的問題我們無法避免這樣的消費行為但是我們至少可以要求這種交易的行為要發生在台灣而不是一個境外的\n511144\t532194\t那我們連稅都抽不到那這也是一個本席可以提醒也許國安單位可以跟財政跟金融相關的單位這個有關於雇屬等等來討論這個方向也許它也是一個我們來杜絕台灣人民因為要去聽國外的追星的演唱會而必須把個資或者是所有的交易行為留在境外的部分\n532642\t546560\t好這部分我們謝謝委員的提醒我們來跟相關部會來研議看法律上怎麼來處理那另外法務部這邊也可以來切入的角度是有沒有涉及到洗錢防治這部分的問題我們一起整併來跟相關部會做討論謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 辛苦了 邀請蔡局長請蔡局長好 謝謝主席 林委員早局長 我要問的問題可能跟前面的委員都不太一樣但是我的這個題目呢我想國安局應該已經都知道了那就是從今年的兩個禮拜開始之後其實有非常多立法院的委員都在關心那就是一文滲透是不是成為另外一個破口\n那本席過去當然非常關注的就是中國透過像剛剛冠尼委員講到的不論是抖音或者是像柔媒體的所謂中央廚房那麼在之前我質詢黃副局長的時候他也有講到在台灣大概有40個左右的這種所謂在地協力者的媒體那麼中國的所謂滲透或者是入侵可以說是方方面面啦那麼\n我不知道局長是不是你們已經開始在關注這個問題那就是如果說現在隨著這些藝文展演國外的藝文展演來到台灣之後那麼中國透過中資的公司拿到這些藝文展演的代理權然後帶了人進來台灣之後那麼他因為\n他是出職者所以變成是他設定了所有的遊戲規則包括今年二月在高雄的這個韓星Rand的演唱會不能拿台灣的小物的字樣然後出現在裡頭\n又或者是說在6月7號即將舉行的這個泰國明星的這個所謂見面會那麼他有中國的背景的公司我想問一下局長因為這其實已經有好幾個委員在關注了那麼主管機關當然是文化部那麼如果說文化部目前他們有沒有跟國安局這裡你們已經有一個小組來進行研擬或研究\n這部分跟委員說明一下就原則上初期來講認為說這種比較像是商業的非法的活動所以現在我們開始的是從這個傳統角度以外從國安的角度來看這種所謂的非法的商業活動背後有沒有一些國安的疑慮那我們已經\n你們會不會認為這是一個樣態必須要關注因為已經有不少委員在提醒我們這件事所以有在注意那也跟警政署這邊有建立一個協調的機制針對這一類案件怎麼樣來查處那一般可以查處運用的法規可能包括到文化產業創意發展法還有洗錢防治法這一類的法規規定讓警政署相關單位在查處過程當中有一個相關的法源依據來做處理這部分我們來注意\n我要討論的是說像這種有中資的背景的當然他可能就馬上涉及兩岸人民關係條例的33之一相關的這個所謂跟黨政軍背景合作的背景不可以合作的部分但是本席要指出的是另外一個我非常關注的問題是\n在以這個泰星來的這個所謂粉絲見面會啦這樣的活動當中台灣是5月10號才售票可是中國的黃牛在4月30號它就已經開賣了所以顯然在這個中資背景的時候它另闢了一個管道把票切給了中國我要提醒的是說因為這樣的一場見面會到底有多少張票\n局長不知道 我不知道 粉絲不知道 但是主辦單位知道而因為我們現在要抓黃牛 所以我們需要實名制所以請你看一下 這個在中國境內的主辦單位他所定下來的是說 你要提供觀影人的姓名 電話 還有觀影人的護照\n那這個有兩個層面第一個層面是要入境台灣的人他要想辦法把他帶進來但是目前我們用這個所謂看演唱會不是一個他們可以入境的方式這個有一個第一個問題是是不是有所謂的集團性造假訪台這是一個問題第二個是就像我剛剛講的有很多粉絲擔心的是票切出去了我買不到票\n所以我就要跟這一個中國的黃牛買票那這個時候問題就來了是不是我們台灣人民的姓名電話還有就是我們的相關的個資就落到中國的手上\n那這是兩個層面的問題而這個已經是形同資安破口這跟前面剛剛我們講的它是商業展演商業展演它有很多的這種所謂不妨礙民間交流的問題但是本席現在要點出的就是第一當它在海外拿到了這樣的所謂演唱會之後多少票你不知道它賣了多少錢你也不知道那麼\n到時候他會帶多少人進來或者是我們多少的個資留到他的手上這會是一個問題所以我想要提醒如果真的是這樣他不只是還有個資喔還有包括信用卡的相關資料因為他刷卡他會需要戶頭那麼這個時候我想問局長他算不算是一個國安一律的活動而且很有可能出現一個大禍口\n針對這個問題 謝委員的提醒也很有系統的把問題給呈現出來那大概分為幾個部分那第二部分是因為這些展演的活動它很多的承包的這些公關公司它有的是境外的公司那它切票以及相關購票的運作都是在網路上運作\n所以在執法上確實有他的困難存在但是我們要注意的大概有兩個的重點第二重點是當他透過這些售票行為而籌組一些所謂的追星團入境台灣過程當中我們會提醒移民署來注意有沒有一些相關可能為異常的人士也藉由這樣的機會入境台灣以所謂的文化或演藝交流的名義入境台灣從事相關的活動這是我們國安團隊第一個要注意的重點那第二\n要注意的重點是委員剛剛有很清楚的指出來有些委員利用這個機會來揭露讓我們的消費者也可以注意到在網路上跟這些境外的公關或行銷公司來訂票的過程當中個人的個資或信用卡的資料會不會外洩外流\n而在中共的中國大陸這些廠商甚至再把你的資料外流而造成了很多網路或電信詐騙把你當成是詐騙的對象所以這部分可能現階段比較能夠做的是透過這樣的揭露跟公開的討論讓民眾可以有這方面的知覺有警覺意識來避免第二種狀況的發生\n好因為本席也是最新人喔所以我也知道其實如果有時候到海外去聽演唱會你也必須透過海外的這種所謂售票或訂票系統那麼當然這個只能自己小心不要誤觸一些就像局長所講的這種詐騙陷阱或是釣魚陷阱而去輸入了個人的信用卡或相關的資訊但是本席要提醒的是說這個是在台灣內部的一個\n所謂展演行為商業行為但是你會發現主辦單位疑似把票已經切到境外他用的不是台灣境內的售票系統我站在維護台灣的權益的部分那就是我剛剛講的這個票到底是多少你不知道那麼他如果這種所謂的交易行為都在海外發生了\n那是不是表示我們連抽到稅都抽不到我們連營業稅都抽不到如果今天這個售票行為是用台灣的售票系統那麼至少我們可以對於這個公司我們可以刻意營業稅所以我也請局長跟相關的財經部會包括財政部相關來研擬就是這個有沒有逃漏稅的問題\n因為等於是說大量的票而且價格很高它發生在海外那這個就是境外那同樣在台灣展演的活動為什麼在海外消費我們連國庫一毛錢都抽不到那這個部分也是本席提醒的就是如果就國安的問題包括資料的揭露的問題我們無法避免這樣的消費行為但是我們至少可以要求這種交易的行為要發生在台灣而不是一個境外的\n那我們連稅都抽不到那這也是一個本席可以提醒也許國安單位可以跟財政跟金融相關的單位這個有關於雇屬等等來討論這個方向也許它也是一個我們來杜絕台灣人民因為要去聽國外的追星的演唱會而必須把個資或者是所有的交易行為留在境外的部分\n好這部分我們謝謝委員的提醒我們來跟相關部會來研議看法律上怎麼來處理那另外法務部這邊也可以來切入的角度是有沒有涉及到洗錢防治這部分的問題我們一起整併來跟相關部會做討論謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:02.731\n謝謝主席辛苦了邀請蔡局長請蔡局長好謝謝主席林委員早局長我要問的問題可能跟前面的委員都不太一樣但是我的這個題目呢我想國安局應該已經都知道了那就是從今年的兩個禮拜開始之後其實有非常多立法院的委員都在關心那就是一文滲透是不是成為另外一個破口\n\n00:27.785 --> 00:35.891\n那本席過去當然非常關注的就是中國透過像剛剛冠尼委員講到的不論是抖音或者是像柔媒體的所謂中央廚房那麼在之前我質詢黃副局長的時候他也有講到在台灣大概有40個左右的這種所謂在地協力者的媒體那麼中國的所謂滲透或者是入侵可以說是方方面面啦那麼\n\n00:54.686 --> 00:58.929\n我不知道局長是不是你們已經開始在關注這個問題那就是如果說現在隨著這些藝文展演國外的藝文展演來到台灣之後那麼中國透過中資的公司拿到這些藝文展演的代理權然後帶了人進來台灣之後那麼他因為\n\n01:18.183 --> 01:26.733\n他是出職者所以變成是他設定了所有的遊戲規則包括今年二月在高雄的這個韓星Rand的演唱會不能拿台灣的小物的字樣然後出現在裡頭\n\n01:34.122 --> 02:00.430\n又或者是說在6月7號即將舉行的這個泰國明星的這個所謂見面會那麼他有中國的背景的公司我想問一下局長因為這其實已經有好幾個委員在關注了那麼主管機關當然是文化部那麼如果說文化部目前他們有沒有跟國安局這裡你們已經有一個小組來進行研擬或研究\n\n02:01.431 --> 02:19.429\n這部分跟委員說明一下就原則上初期來講認為說這種比較像是商業的非法的活動所以現在我們開始的是從這個傳統角度以外從國安的角度來看這種所謂的非法的商業活動背後有沒有一些國安的疑慮那我們已經\n\n02:19.989 --> 02:31.715\n你們會不會認為這是一個樣態必須要關注因為已經有不少委員在提醒我們這件事所以有在注意那也跟警政署這邊有建立一個協調的機制針對這一類案件怎麼樣來查處那一般可以查處運用的法規可能包括到文化產業創意發展法還有洗錢防治法這一類的法規規定讓警政署相關單位在查處過程當中有一個相關的法源依據來做處理這部分我們來注意\n\n02:46.462 --> 03:02.729\n我要討論的是說像這種有中資的背景的當然他可能就馬上涉及兩岸人民關係條例的33之一相關的這個所謂跟黨政軍背景合作的背景不可以合作的部分但是本席要指出的是另外一個我非常關注的問題是\n\n03:04.190 --> 03:25.980\n在以這個泰星來的這個所謂粉絲見面會啦這樣的活動當中台灣是5月10號才售票可是中國的黃牛在4月30號它就已經開賣了所以顯然在這個中資背景的時候它另闢了一個管道把票切給了中國我要提醒的是說因為這樣的一場見面會到底有多少張票\n\n03:30.663 --> 03:49.288\n局長不知道我不知道粉絲不知道但是主辦單位知道而因為我們現在要抓黃牛所以我們需要實名制所以請你看一下這個在中國境內的主辦單位他所定下來的是說你要提供觀影人的姓名電話還有觀影人的護照\n\n03:55.290 --> 04:00.491\n那這個有兩個層面第一個層面是要入境台灣的人他要想辦法把他帶進來但是目前我們用這個所謂看演唱會不是一個他們可以入境的方式這個有一個第一個問題是是不是有所謂的集團性造假訪台這是一個問題第二個是就像我剛剛講的有很多粉絲擔心的是票切出去了我買不到票\n\n04:20.936 --> 04:23.580\n所以我就要跟這一個中國的黃牛買票那這個時候問題就來了是不是我們台灣人民的姓名電話還有就是我們的相關的個資就落到中國的手上\n\n04:36.377 --> 05:02.396\n那這是兩個層面的問題而這個已經是形同資安破口這跟前面剛剛我們講的它是商業展演商業展演它有很多的這種所謂不妨礙民間交流的問題但是本席現在要點出的就是第一當它在海外拿到了這樣的所謂演唱會之後多少票你不知道它賣了多少錢你也不知道那麼\n\n05:03.937 --> 05:19.765\n到時候他會帶多少人進來或者是我們多少的個資留到他的手上這會是一個問題所以我想要提醒如果真的是這樣他不只是還有個資喔還有包括信用卡的相關資料因為他刷卡他會需要戶頭那麼這個時候我想問局長他算不算是一個國安一律的活動而且很有可能出現一個大禍口\n\n05:30.610 --> 05:46.861\n針對這個問題謝委員的提醒也很有系統的把問題給呈現出來那大概分為幾個部分那第二部分是因為這些展演的活動它很多的承包的這些公關公司它有的是境外的公司那它切票以及相關購票的運作都是在網路上運作\n\n05:48.382 --> 06:16.221\n所以在執法上確實有他的困難存在但是我們要注意的大概有兩個的重點第二重點是當他透過這些售票行為而籌組一些所謂的追星團入境台灣過程當中我們會提醒移民署來注意有沒有一些相關可能為異常的人士也藉由這樣的機會入境台灣以所謂的文化或演藝交流的名義入境台灣從事相關的活動這是我們國安團隊第一個要注意的重點那第二\n\n06:16.721 --> 06:32.413\n要注意的重點是委員剛剛有很清楚的指出來有些委員利用這個機會來揭露讓我們的消費者也可以注意到在網路上跟這些境外的公關或行銷公司來訂票的過程當中個人的個資或信用卡的資料會不會外洩外流\n\n06:33.154 --> 06:50.791\n而在中共的中國大陸這些廠商甚至再把你的資料外流而造成了很多網路或電信詐騙把你當成是詐騙的對象所以這部分可能現階段比較能夠做的是透過這樣的揭露跟公開的討論讓民眾可以有這方面的知覺有警覺意識來避免第二種狀況的發生\n\n06:51.892 --> 07:12.600\n好因為本席也是最新人喔所以我也知道其實如果有時候到海外去聽演唱會你也必須透過海外的這種所謂售票或訂票系統那麼當然這個只能自己小心不要誤觸一些就像局長所講的這種詐騙陷阱或是釣魚陷阱而去輸入了個人的信用卡或相關的資訊但是本席要提醒的是說這個是在台灣內部的一個\n\n07:16.041 --> 07:20.684\n所謂展演行為商業行為但是你會發現主辦單位疑似把票已經切到境外他用的不是台灣境內的售票系統我站在維護台灣的權益的部分那就是我剛剛講的這個票到底是多少你不知道那麼他如果這種所謂的交易行為都在海外發生了\n\n07:38.396 --> 07:43.501\n那是不是表示我們連抽到稅都抽不到我們連營業稅都抽不到如果今天這個售票行為是用台灣的售票系統那麼至少我們可以對於這個公司我們可以刻意營業稅所以我也請局長跟相關的財經部會包括財政部相關來研擬就是這個有沒有逃漏稅的問題\n\n08:02.580 --> 08:09.005\n因為等於是說大量的票而且價格很高它發生在海外那這個就是境外那同樣在台灣展演的活動為什麼在海外消費我們連國庫一毛錢都抽不到那這個部分也是本席提醒的就是如果就國安的問題包括資料的揭露的問題我們無法避免這樣的消費行為但是我們至少可以要求這種交易的行為要發生在台灣而不是一個境外的\n\n08:31.144 --> 08:52.194\n那我們連稅都抽不到那這也是一個本席可以提醒也許國安單位可以跟財政跟金融相關的單位這個有關於雇屬等等來討論這個方向也許它也是一個我們來杜絕台灣人民因為要去聽國外的追星的演唱會而必須把個資或者是所有的交易行為留在境外的部分\n\n08:52.642 --> 09:06.560\n好這部分我們謝謝委員的提醒我們來跟相關部會來研議看法律上怎麼來處理那另外法務部這邊也可以來切入的角度是有沒有涉及到洗錢防治這部分的問題我們一起整併來跟相關部會做討論謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":2.731,"text":"謝謝主席 辛苦了 邀請蔡局長請蔡局長好 謝謝主席 林委員早局長 我要問的問題可能跟前面的委員都不太一樣但是我的這個題目呢我想國安局應該已經都知道了那就是從今年的兩個禮拜開始之後其實有非常多立法院的委員都在關心那就是一文滲透是不是成為另外一個破口"},{"start":27.785,"end":35.891,"text":"那本席過去當然非常關注的就是中國透過像剛剛冠尼委員講到的不論是抖音或者是像柔媒體的所謂中央廚房那麼在之前我質詢黃副局長的時候他也有講到在台灣大概有40個左右的這種所謂在地協力者的媒體那麼中國的所謂滲透或者是入侵可以說是方方面面啦那麼"},{"start":54.686,"end":58.929,"text":"我不知道局長是不是你們已經開始在關注這個問題那就是如果說現在隨著這些藝文展演國外的藝文展演來到台灣之後那麼中國透過中資的公司拿到這些藝文展演的代理權然後帶了人進來台灣之後那麼他因為"},{"start":78.183,"end":86.733,"text":"他是出職者所以變成是他設定了所有的遊戲規則包括今年二月在高雄的這個韓星Rand的演唱會不能拿台灣的小物的字樣然後出現在裡頭"},{"start":94.122,"end":120.43,"text":"又或者是說在6月7號即將舉行的這個泰國明星的這個所謂見面會那麼他有中國的背景的公司我想問一下局長因為這其實已經有好幾個委員在關注了那麼主管機關當然是文化部那麼如果說文化部目前他們有沒有跟國安局這裡你們已經有一個小組來進行研擬或研究"},{"start":121.431,"end":139.429,"text":"這部分跟委員說明一下就原則上初期來講認為說這種比較像是商業的非法的活動所以現在我們開始的是從這個傳統角度以外從國安的角度來看這種所謂的非法的商業活動背後有沒有一些國安的疑慮那我們已經"},{"start":139.989,"end":151.715,"text":"你們會不會認為這是一個樣態必須要關注因為已經有不少委員在提醒我們這件事所以有在注意那也跟警政署這邊有建立一個協調的機制針對這一類案件怎麼樣來查處那一般可以查處運用的法規可能包括到文化產業創意發展法還有洗錢防治法這一類的法規規定讓警政署相關單位在查處過程當中有一個相關的法源依據來做處理這部分我們來注意"},{"start":166.462,"end":182.729,"text":"我要討論的是說像這種有中資的背景的當然他可能就馬上涉及兩岸人民關係條例的33之一相關的這個所謂跟黨政軍背景合作的背景不可以合作的部分但是本席要指出的是另外一個我非常關注的問題是"},{"start":184.19,"end":205.98,"text":"在以這個泰星來的這個所謂粉絲見面會啦這樣的活動當中台灣是5月10號才售票可是中國的黃牛在4月30號它就已經開賣了所以顯然在這個中資背景的時候它另闢了一個管道把票切給了中國我要提醒的是說因為這樣的一場見面會到底有多少張票"},{"start":210.663,"end":229.288,"text":"局長不知道 我不知道 粉絲不知道 但是主辦單位知道而因為我們現在要抓黃牛 所以我們需要實名制所以請你看一下 這個在中國境內的主辦單位他所定下來的是說 你要提供觀影人的姓名 電話 還有觀影人的護照"},{"start":235.29,"end":240.491,"text":"那這個有兩個層面第一個層面是要入境台灣的人他要想辦法把他帶進來但是目前我們用這個所謂看演唱會不是一個他們可以入境的方式這個有一個第一個問題是是不是有所謂的集團性造假訪台這是一個問題第二個是就像我剛剛講的有很多粉絲擔心的是票切出去了我買不到票"},{"start":260.936,"end":263.58,"text":"所以我就要跟這一個中國的黃牛買票那這個時候問題就來了是不是我們台灣人民的姓名電話還有就是我們的相關的個資就落到中國的手上"},{"start":276.377,"end":302.396,"text":"那這是兩個層面的問題而這個已經是形同資安破口這跟前面剛剛我們講的它是商業展演商業展演它有很多的這種所謂不妨礙民間交流的問題但是本席現在要點出的就是第一當它在海外拿到了這樣的所謂演唱會之後多少票你不知道它賣了多少錢你也不知道那麼"},{"start":303.937,"end":319.765,"text":"到時候他會帶多少人進來或者是我們多少的個資留到他的手上這會是一個問題所以我想要提醒如果真的是這樣他不只是還有個資喔還有包括信用卡的相關資料因為他刷卡他會需要戶頭那麼這個時候我想問局長他算不算是一個國安一律的活動而且很有可能出現一個大禍口"},{"start":330.61,"end":346.861,"text":"針對這個問題 謝委員的提醒也很有系統的把問題給呈現出來那大概分為幾個部分那第二部分是因為這些展演的活動它很多的承包的這些公關公司它有的是境外的公司那它切票以及相關購票的運作都是在網路上運作"},{"start":348.382,"end":376.221,"text":"所以在執法上確實有他的困難存在但是我們要注意的大概有兩個的重點第二重點是當他透過這些售票行為而籌組一些所謂的追星團入境台灣過程當中我們會提醒移民署來注意有沒有一些相關可能為異常的人士也藉由這樣的機會入境台灣以所謂的文化或演藝交流的名義入境台灣從事相關的活動這是我們國安團隊第一個要注意的重點那第二"},{"start":376.721,"end":392.413,"text":"要注意的重點是委員剛剛有很清楚的指出來有些委員利用這個機會來揭露讓我們的消費者也可以注意到在網路上跟這些境外的公關或行銷公司來訂票的過程當中個人的個資或信用卡的資料會不會外洩外流"},{"start":393.154,"end":410.791,"text":"而在中共的中國大陸這些廠商甚至再把你的資料外流而造成了很多網路或電信詐騙把你當成是詐騙的對象所以這部分可能現階段比較能夠做的是透過這樣的揭露跟公開的討論讓民眾可以有這方面的知覺有警覺意識來避免第二種狀況的發生"},{"start":411.892,"end":432.6,"text":"好因為本席也是最新人喔所以我也知道其實如果有時候到海外去聽演唱會你也必須透過海外的這種所謂售票或訂票系統那麼當然這個只能自己小心不要誤觸一些就像局長所講的這種詐騙陷阱或是釣魚陷阱而去輸入了個人的信用卡或相關的資訊但是本席要提醒的是說這個是在台灣內部的一個"},{"start":436.041,"end":440.684,"text":"所謂展演行為商業行為但是你會發現主辦單位疑似把票已經切到境外他用的不是台灣境內的售票系統我站在維護台灣的權益的部分那就是我剛剛講的這個票到底是多少你不知道那麼他如果這種所謂的交易行為都在海外發生了"},{"start":458.396,"end":463.501,"text":"那是不是表示我們連抽到稅都抽不到我們連營業稅都抽不到如果今天這個售票行為是用台灣的售票系統那麼至少我們可以對於這個公司我們可以刻意營業稅所以我也請局長跟相關的財經部會包括財政部相關來研擬就是這個有沒有逃漏稅的問題"},{"start":482.58,"end":489.005,"text":"因為等於是說大量的票而且價格很高它發生在海外那這個就是境外那同樣在台灣展演的活動為什麼在海外消費我們連國庫一毛錢都抽不到那這個部分也是本席提醒的就是如果就國安的問題包括資料的揭露的問題我們無法避免這樣的消費行為但是我們至少可以要求這種交易的行為要發生在台灣而不是一個境外的"},{"start":511.144,"end":532.194,"text":"那我們連稅都抽不到那這也是一個本席可以提醒也許國安單位可以跟財政跟金融相關的單位這個有關於雇屬等等來討論這個方向也許它也是一個我們來杜絕台灣人民因為要去聽國外的追星的演唱會而必須把個資或者是所有的交易行為留在境外的部分"},{"start":532.642,"end":546.56,"text":"好這部分我們謝謝委員的提醒我們來跟相關部會來研議看法律上怎麼來處理那另外法務部這邊也可以來切入的角度是有沒有涉及到洗錢防治這部分的問題我們一起整併來跟相關部會做討論謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":255,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時25分），謝謝主席，辛苦了，有請蔡局長。"],["主席：請蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席。林委員早。"],["林委員楚茵：我要問的問題可能跟前面的委員都不太一樣，但是我的這個題目我想國安局應該已經都知道了，從兩個禮拜前開始，其實有非常多立法院的委員都在關心，那就是藝文滲透是不是成為另外一個破口？本席過去非常關注的就是中國透過像剛剛冠廷委員講到的，不論是抖音，或者像融媒體的所謂中央廚房。之前我質詢黃副局長的時候，他也講到在臺灣大概有四十個左右的這種在地協力者的媒體，中國的滲透或者入侵可以說是方方面面。我不知道，局長，是不是你們已經開始在關注這個問題？如果現在隨著這些藝文展演，國外的藝文展演來到臺灣之後，中國透過中資的公司拿到這些藝文展演的代理權，然後帶了人進來臺灣之後，因為他是出資者，所以變成他設定所有的遊戲規則。包括今年2月在高雄的韓星Rain演唱會，不能拿「Taiwan」字樣的小物出現在裡頭；又或者在6月7號即將舉行的泰國明星見面會，有中國背景的公司。","我想問一下局長，因為這其實已經有好幾個委員在關注了，主管機關當然是文化部，文化部目前有沒有跟國安局……你們已經有一個小組進行研擬或研究？"],["蔡局長明彥：這部分跟委員說明一下，原則上初期來講，認為這種比較像是商業的非法活動，所以現在我們開始的是從傳統角度以外，從國安的角度來看，這種所謂非法的商業活動背後有沒有一些國安的疑慮，我們已經有跟……"],["林委員楚茵：對，你們會不會認為這是一個樣態必須要關注？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，要注意，因為已經有不少委員在提醒我們這件事，所以在注意，也跟警政署建立一個協調機制，針對這一類案件怎麼樣查處。一般可以查處運用的法規，可能包括文化產業創意發展法，還有洗錢防制法這一類的法規規定，讓警政署相關單位在查處過程當中有一個相關的法源依據處理，這部分我們來注意。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我要討論的是，像這種有中資背景的，當然可能就馬上涉及兩岸人民關係條例第三十三條之一相關的，所謂跟有黨政軍背景不可以合作的部分。但本席要指出的是另外一個我非常關注的問題，泰星來的粉絲見面會這樣的活動，臺灣5月10號才售票，可是中國的黃牛在4月30號就已經開賣了，所以顯然這個中資背景的部分他另闢了一個管道，把票切給中國。我要提醒的是，這樣的一場見面會到底有多少張票，局長不知道、我不知道、粉絲不知道，但是主辦單位知道，因為我們現在要抓黃牛，所以需要實名制。請你看一下這個在中國境內的主辦單位，他所定的是你要提供觀演人姓名、電話還有觀演人護照號。這有兩個層面：第一個層面是要入境臺灣的人，他要想辦法把他帶進來，但是目前用看演唱會的名義並不是他們可以入境的方式，第一個問題在於是不是有所謂的集團性造假訪臺，這是一個問題。第二個問題，就像我剛剛講的，有很多粉絲擔心的是票切出去了，他們買不到票，所以就必須跟這一個中國的黃牛買票，這時候問題就來了，是不是臺灣人民的姓名、電話及相關個資就落到中國的手上？這是兩個層面的問題，而這已經形同資安破口，這跟前面剛剛講的商業展演……商業展演有很多所謂不妨礙民間交流的問題，但是本席現在要點出的是：第一，當他在海外拿到了這樣的演唱會之後，多少票你不知道，他賣了多少錢你也不知道，到時候他會帶多少人進來或者是我們多少個資流到他的手上，這會是一個問題，所以我想要提醒，如果真的是這樣，其實不只是個資，還有包括信用卡的相關資料，因為刷卡會需要戶頭，我想問局長，它算不算是有國安疑慮的活動？而且很有可能出現一個大破口。"],["蔡局長明彥：針對這個問題，謝謝委員的提醒，也很有系統的把問題呈現出來，大概分為幾個部分：第一個，因為這一些展演活動有很多承包的公關公司，有的是境外的公司，他切票以及相關購票都是在網路上運作，所以是在境外，也因此在執法上確實有其困難存在，但是我們要注意的大概有兩個重點：第一個重點是當他透過這些售票行為籌組一些所謂的追星團入境臺灣，過程當中我們會提醒移民署注意有沒有一些相關異常人士也藉由這樣的機會入境臺灣，以文化或演藝交流的名義入境臺灣從事相關的活動，這是國安團隊第一個要注意的重點。第二個要注意的重點是委員剛剛很清楚地指出來，也謝謝委員利用這個機會來揭露，讓我們的消費者也可以注意到，在網路上跟這些境外的公關或行銷公司訂票的過程當中，個人的個資或信用卡的資料會不會外洩、外流，而在中國大陸的這些廠商甚至再把你的資料外流，造成了很多網路或電信詐騙把你當成詐騙的對象。這部分現階段比較能夠做的可能是透過這樣的揭露跟公開的討論，讓民眾可以有這方面的知覺，有警覺意識來避免第二種狀況的發生。"],["林委員楚茵：好，因為本席也是追星人，所以我也知道如果有時候到海外去聽演唱會，其實你也必須透過海外的售票或訂票系統，當然這個只能自己小心，不要誤觸一些像局長所講的詐騙陷阱或是釣魚陷阱，而輸入了個人的信用卡或相關的資訊。但是本席要提醒的是，這個是在臺灣內部的展演行為、商業行為，但是你會發現主辦單位疑似把票已經切到境外，他用的不是臺灣境內的售票系統，我站在維護臺灣權益的立場，就是我剛剛講的，這些票到底是多少你不知道，如果這種交易行為都在海外發生了，那是不是表示我們連營業稅都抽不到？如果今天這個售票行為是用臺灣的售票系統，至少我們可以對這家公司課以營業稅，所以我也請局長跟相關的財經部會，包括財政部等相關機關研議這個有沒有逃漏稅的問題，因為是大量的票，而且價格很高，它發生在海外，那這個就是境外，同樣在臺灣展演的活動，為什麼在海外消費，我們的國庫連一毛錢都抽不到？這個部分也是本席要提醒的，就是就國安的問題，包括資料揭露的問題，我們無法避免這樣的消費行為，但是我們至少可以要求這種交易的行為要發生在臺灣，而不是境外的，讓我們連稅都抽不到，這也是本席可以提醒的地方，也許國安單位可以跟財政、金融相關單位，包括國庫署等等來討論這個方向，也許這也是杜絕臺灣人民因為要去聽國外新的演唱會，而必須把個資或是所有的交易行為留在境外。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員的提醒，這部分我們會跟相關部會研議看看法律上怎麼來處理。另外，法務部可以切入的角度是有沒有涉及到洗錢防制這部分的問題，我們一起整併來跟相關部會討論，謝謝委員。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":42,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-16","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王定宇","林憶君","陳培瑜","陳永康"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國家安全局預算凍結案等24案","agenda_id":"1145201_00001"}}}