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\"end\": 704.94, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 704.94, \"end\": 704.98, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 704.98, \"end\": 705.0, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 705.0, \"end\": 705.02, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,419 --> 00:00:10,768\n主委你好主委最近有一家公司中頂工程公司出了一個大狀況他的運送賬款高達196億他總淨值也不過是196億就這麼剛好\n\n2\n00:00:19,039 --> 00:00:34,193\n可是這裡頭有很大的問題就是說中頂在兩年前去製造這個工程款有出一些問題但是還不斷地投入這個工程費用累積起來的金額才會虧損越來越大但是該發重訊的時候\n\n3\n00:00:35,194 --> 00:00:59,094\n他發了但是卻是不死的重訓說對他財務都沒有什麼影響但是今年第一期已經認列31億的虧損還自稱說他可以收回來後續的196億可是問題雙方的合約的認知當中就差了4億美元也就是說4億美元當中呢是雙方的認知的差異就120億根本收不回來的情況底下他對外還宣稱他可以收了回來\n\n4\n00:01:01,457 --> 00:01:26,853\n這家中頂公司呢在過去ESG的時候在治理的部分的評鑑是前5%的殊榮在ESG的治理評鑑而且連續六屆還有100億以上非金融電子業的前10%看起來表現這麼好但是呢這結果在它4月16號的時候在突然告訴大家說有196億可能收不回來股價連跌四天這簡直是在坑殺股民嘛\n\n5\n00:01:28,462 --> 00:01:56,872\n股民當下就當損失了35%而且不只是股民損失連員工啊三個員工信託還損失了18億而且還有三家銀行也倒楣永豐銀行彰化銀行還有玉山銀行可是這件事情啊我看到就只有徵交所因為違約的問題罰他20萬從頭到尾都沒有看到主管機關金管會表示過任何意見主委是狀況外嗎\n\n6\n00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:21,686\n我想這個如果說剛才像委員提到是因為重訓的問題還有這樣合約的問題我們交易所確實會有一套的程序就如委員講的這個不過這個金額重大也影響到市場的這個剛才看到這個股價有顯著的影響嚴重一點這搞不好是變相的掏空欸嚴重一點搞不好是特別背信欸主委\n\n7\n00:02:24,928 --> 00:02:50,449\n196億欸坑殺多少股民他對外謊稱還說可以收回來100多億事實上合約落差就差了4億美元之多啊不時中憲的處罰最低28最高480這其實局都沒有動欸我不知道張局長在忙什麼主委你在忙什麼這件事情監管會完全狀況外而且他還有市民讀懂喔\n\n8\n00:02:51,753 --> 00:03:13,566\n這四名獨董都是在馬鞍九時期的官員喔一個是李建宗喔工程委員會副主委施能祥以前當過經濟部長喔還有一個央行的外匯局局長喔顏輝煌喔都是一時之選啊四個獨董是啞巴是不是跟委員報告一下現在交易所還在瞭解中交易所還在瞭解中你這是官話嘛\n\n9\n00:03:15,294 --> 00:03:43,767\n已經兩三年了4月份就虧損了35%你現在告訴我交易所還在了解說交易所已經罰他20萬了是你正期會需要了解中吧重大訊息都沒有做任何的表示意見這件事情要怎麼處理這個案子我會立刻請我們交易所審慎來處理一來內控失靈啊二來有沒有外控機制啊\n\n10\n00:03:45,798 --> 00:03:58,816\n類似這麼重大事件我們的投保中心或者我們的相關的主管機關銀行局或者保險局能不能委託會計處去查核去了解主委\n\n11\n00:04:04,213 --> 00:04:22,372\n這些部分的話是說這跟我們的保險局是要去查核我會請我們政企局跟交易所來好好來處理這個案子對啦事情已經這麼嚴重了而且還不只一家咧後面還有耶後面還有一個台積電的概念股\n\n12\n00:04:23,873 --> 00:04:49,826\n這個叫萬刃科技他明明是受到駭客的這一個集團的勒索在4月20號重大訊息的時候說沒有個資沒有機密的問題沒有重大文件的歪落結果5月17號人家就把他公布出來了一樣是重大訊息不是金管會有沒有做什麼類似的事件啊我想剛才委員提到一而再再而三的發生啊主委\n\n13\n00:04:50,796 --> 00:04:51,357\n兩個案子多久給本席答覆\n\n14\n00:05:09,794 --> 00:05:25,193\n我想當然這個時間我們會盡快但是這部分應該是要我不是背賴我相信你的辦事能力先釐清先釐清主委我再就教您一個問題這個問題您是專家那我是粗淺的了解是不管\n\n15\n00:05:25,333 --> 00:05:39,189\n但是就相關的數字當中大家都知道台幣的升值對受選公司的影響非常之大在四月份的時候就已經六大公司就已經虧損一百八十億那時候升值不過三點六四五月份的時候升值超過六\n\n16\n00:05:40,410 --> 00:06:04,540\n那我們知道淨池是浮動的但是呢保險公司因為淨池的浮動視為一個利多或利空的現象的各自解讀只要賺錢他說是對的虧錢也說是對的但是呢在帳與碟之間差別非常的大在2021年的時候有一年金管會就核准了9家受險公司給他發562億的現金鼓勵去年又出現了赤膏\n\n17\n00:06:11,557 --> 00:06:30,096\n聽說有好幾家這個受選公司說也要求比照辦理要發240億的現金鼓勵有沒有這回事其實應該是這樣講就是說公司的經營比如說今年看到的現金鼓勵發放其實是去年績效我想這個大概都是按照這個規定來做那\n\n18\n00:06:30,757 --> 00:06:46,580\n保險業比較特殊他們的現金鼓勵的發放要經過我們保險局的審查也是要考慮到這個問題那如果說他已經比如說已經這個程序做完了東西那他已經程序做完了那符合這個規定他當然去發那至於說你要讓他發了嗎\n\n19\n00:06:48,101 --> 00:07:15,126\n這個東西先跟委員報告一下就是說我們今天假設說還在程序中的話因為這部分的話我們也要尊重因為我們做完的裁定這是去年的事情剛剛講損益的數字波動也有我們已經考量到現金發放我們已經考量到它很多人的因素已經作賜了2021發完沒多久美國升息禁止暴跌之後隔年這個星光人壽就因為RBC不足然後就要增資了嗎\n\n20\n00:07:15,686 --> 00:07:37,017\n你不覺得很荒謬嗎這個當然委員關係的事啦像比如說我們有些公司如果還沒有發放的他來申請的我們就會跟他請他做這個評估你這四家我認為你要好好的思考清楚其實每一家都要好好思考對每一家都要好好思考每一次申請都要好好思考當然我們現金鼓勵你隨便讓他賬面稍微好一點那改天又跌了\n\n21\n00:07:37,657 --> 00:07:57,934\n在漲與跌之間然後就在漲的時候就可以發股利跌的時候又不一定拿得出錢你看現在RBC的狀況其實我們現在的審查機制已經考慮到這些內容因為像我們其他的銀行的話它是不需要做這樣的審查因為財報的屬性剛剛委員講的財報的屬性不一樣您最清楚啦我會私底下才能請教您啦可是這個問題就是因為受顯業的特殊性嘛\n\n22\n00:08:01,417 --> 00:08:25,909\n不應該他跟一般公司一樣嘛帳面上看起來好像有就可以發但是帳面上沒有的時候他補不出來啊如果真的去了解他比如說財報上的損益跟他真的發放其實會有大大的距離所以說你已經決定要發了嗎我剛跟我們報告過就是說我們已經核准過的因為政府是他執行公權力的部分那現在這幾家呢現在這幾家我們會再來請他們審慎思考你要審慎思考一下啦齁\n\n23\n00:08:26,869 --> 00:08:40,740\n另外一個RBC的部分目前為止不足200的大概有多少家就您所掌握的RBC的部分其實上因為我們現在這個一家這一家現在RBC\n\n24\n00:08:42,146 --> 00:09:09,148\n因為跟我們報告這是時間差的關係啦因為我們是每半年看一次不是每天在看場地上就是12月31號跟6月30號我希望你時常好好的watch一下啦這個我們每天都在watch最後我還有一個問題要問您啦你知道今天央行的報告當中就是資本集中度雖然有下滑但是還過度於偏重於這一個不動產的部分\n\n25\n00:09:11,237 --> 00:09:35,292\n現階段這個財政部有要求嚴格的管控希望不論這個建商的存款多少他要販款的部分的額度要朝向降低集中度降低不要偏重特定部門這也是符合央行目前的一個報告的方式但我就就教於主委啦財政部所管現在不過公股銀行八大銀行而已我想請教一下主委是不是應該所有的銀行都應該比照辦理啊\n\n26\n00:09:36,032 --> 00:10:04,480\n其實我們已經逐步在做這件事也是這個是政策我們基於風險管理的角度其實央行的政策是整體國家的房地產政策不是只有針對公股銀行的房地產政策那如果是這樣子你覺得這樣下降的幅度怎麼樣其實因為這個市場上有它一定的我們也希望說能夠用政策的導引我們也確實看到剛剛講那個不管成長率或是真的也在下降中好\n\n27\n00:10:05,660 --> 00:10:33,310\n謝謝主委我耽誤一下主席一分鐘主委還有我謝謝主席而已最後一個部分主委有一個委託書的制度我不談個案我談這個一般而言外資來到台灣10%以上的話要經過我們的投審會10%以下的話他基本上可以透過有限徵求或無限徵求的方式比如說10%以下他的有限徵求跟無限徵求都可以達到一定的程度介入這個經營權\n\n28\n00:10:35,891 --> 00:10:55,873\n這個問題確實是我覺得是一個漏洞這個確實我們正在檢討這件事情因為當時任何的外資在投資台灣都有他的目的目的不同審核的程序是不同的那我們也在盤點這些是否有些可能被拿來做一個不當利用我們正在處理中\n\n29\n00:10:56,474 --> 00:11:10,853\n然後舉其例啦譬如講你如果化齡為整而想要經營爭奪這個經營權或介入經營權的情況底下是不是應該再回到投審會的方式再審查一次這個其實我們一開始審查就是分流\n\n30\n00:11:11,394 --> 00:11:30,035\n是一個比如說你是一個直接投資FDI還有就是超過一定股權以上本來就是由投審會來做這個審查其他所謂的目的單純的財務投資那當然就是由金管會基於因為國際的資金的流通所以如果說你的目的是不同的那當然就要就是換軌嘛\n\n31\n00:11:31,496 --> 00:11:45,020\n就要回到他的本意去對應該回到投審會一起來審查他才能夠公開的介入沒有這個本來就是當處理分流的本意對啦麻煩你跟投審會我們已經在處理中達成一個機制的設計好不好是的好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝郭委員的諮詢下一位請賴會員召委諮詢進謝謝主席有請金管會彭主委還有警察局賴局長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3419\t10768\t主委你好主委最近有一家公司中頂工程公司出了一個大狀況他的運送賬款高達196億他總淨值也不過是196億就這麼剛好\n19039\t34193\t可是這裡頭有很大的問題就是說中頂在兩年前去製造這個工程款有出一些問題但是還不斷地投入這個工程費用累積起來的金額才會虧損越來越大但是該發重訊的時候\n35194\t59094\t他發了但是卻是不死的重訓說對他財務都沒有什麼影響但是今年第一期已經認列31億的虧損還自稱說他可以收回來後續的196億可是問題雙方的合約的認知當中就差了4億美元也就是說4億美元當中呢是雙方的認知的差異就120億根本收不回來的情況底下他對外還宣稱他可以收了回來\n61457\t86853\t這家中頂公司呢在過去ESG的時候在治理的部分的評鑑是前5%的殊榮在ESG的治理評鑑而且連續六屆還有100億以上非金融電子業的前10%看起來表現這麼好但是呢這結果在它4月16號的時候在突然告訴大家說有196億可能收不回來股價連跌四天這簡直是在坑殺股民嘛\n88462\t116872\t股民當下就當損失了35%而且不只是股民損失連員工啊三個員工信託還損失了18億而且還有三家銀行也倒楣永豐銀行彰化銀行還有玉山銀行可是這件事情啊我看到就只有徵交所因為違約的問題罰他20萬從頭到尾都沒有看到主管機關金管會表示過任何意見主委是狀況外嗎\n118400\t141686\t我想這個如果說剛才像委員提到是因為重訓的問題還有這樣合約的問題我們交易所確實會有一套的程序就如委員講的這個不過這個金額重大也影響到市場的這個剛才看到這個股價有顯著的影響嚴重一點這搞不好是變相的掏空欸嚴重一點搞不好是特別背信欸主委\n144928\t170449\t196億欸 坑殺多少股民他對外謊稱還說可以收回來100多億事實上合約落差就差了4億美元之多啊不時中憲的處罰最低28 最高480這其實局都沒有動欸我不知道張局長在忙什麼主委你在忙什麼這件事情監管會完全狀況外而且他還有市民讀懂喔\n171753\t193566\t這四名獨董都是在馬鞍九時期的官員喔一個是李建宗喔工程委員會副主委施能祥以前當過經濟部長喔還有一個央行的外匯局局長喔顏輝煌喔都是一時之選啊四個獨董是啞巴是不是跟委員報告一下現在交易所還在瞭解中交易所還在瞭解中你這是官話嘛\n195294\t223767\t已經兩三年了4月份就虧損了35%你現在告訴我交易所還在了解說交易所已經罰他20萬了是你正期會需要了解中吧重大訊息都沒有做任何的表示意見這件事情要怎麼處理這個案子我會立刻請我們交易所審慎來處理一來內控失靈啊二來有沒有外控機制啊\n225798\t238816\t類似這麼重大事件我們的投保中心或者我們的相關的主管機關銀行局或者保險局能不能委託會計處去查核 去了解主委\n244213\t262372\t這些部分的話是說這跟我們的保險局是要去查核我會請我們政企局跟交易所來好好來處理這個案子對啦事情已經這麼嚴重了而且還不只一家咧後面還有耶後面還有一個台積電的概念股\n263873\t289826\t這個叫萬刃科技他明明是受到駭客的這一個集團的勒索在4月20號重大訊息的時候說沒有個資沒有機密的問題沒有重大文件的歪落結果5月17號人家就把他公布出來了一樣是重大訊息不是金管會有沒有做什麼類似的事件啊我想剛才委員提到一而再再而三的發生啊主委\n290796\t291357\t兩個案子多久給本席答覆\n309794\t325193\t我想當然這個時間我們會盡快但是這部分應該是要我不是背賴我相信你的辦事能力先釐清先釐清主委我再就教您一個問題這個問題您是專家那我是粗淺的了解是不管\n325333\t339189\t但是就相關的數字當中大家都知道台幣的升值對受選公司的影響非常之大在四月份的時候就已經六大公司就已經虧損一百八十億那時候升值不過三點六四五月份的時候升值超過六\n340410\t364540\t那我們知道淨池是浮動的但是呢保險公司因為淨池的浮動視為一個利多或利空的現象的各自解讀只要賺錢他說是對的虧錢也說是對的但是呢在帳與碟之間差別非常的大在2021年的時候有一年金管會就核准了9家受險公司給他發562億的現金鼓勵去年又出現了赤膏\n371557\t390096\t聽說有好幾家這個受選公司說也要求比照辦理要發240億的現金鼓勵有沒有這回事其實應該是這樣講就是說公司的經營比如說今年看到的現金鼓勵發放其實是去年績效我想這個大概都是按照這個規定來做那\n390757\t406580\t保險業比較特殊他們的現金鼓勵的發放要經過我們保險局的審查也是要考慮到這個問題那如果說他已經比如說已經這個程序做完了東西那他已經程序做完了那符合這個規定他當然去發那至於說你要讓他發了嗎\n408101\t435126\t這個東西先跟委員報告一下就是說我們今天假設說還在程序中的話因為這部分的話我們也要尊重因為我們做完的裁定這是去年的事情剛剛講損益的數字波動也有我們已經考量到現金發放我們已經考量到它很多人的因素已經作賜了2021發完沒多久美國升息禁止暴跌之後隔年這個星光人壽就因為RBC不足然後就要增資了嗎\n435686\t457017\t你不覺得很荒謬嗎這個當然委員關係的事啦像比如說我們有些公司如果還沒有發放的他來申請的我們就會跟他請他做這個評估你這四家我認為你要好好的思考清楚其實每一家都要好好思考對 每一家都要好好思考每一次申請都要好好思考當然我們現金鼓勵你隨便讓他賬面稍微好一點那改天又跌了\n457657\t477934\t在漲與跌之間然後就在漲的時候就可以發股利跌的時候又不一定拿得出錢你看現在RBC的狀況其實我們現在的審查機制已經考慮到這些內容因為像我們其他的銀行的話它是不需要做這樣的審查因為財報的屬性剛剛委員講的財報的屬性不一樣您最清楚啦我會私底下才能請教您啦可是這個問題就是因為受顯業的特殊性嘛\n481417\t505909\t不應該他跟一般公司一樣嘛 帳面上看起來好像有就可以發但是帳面上沒有的時候他補不出來啊如果真的去了解他比如說財報上的損益跟他真的發放其實會有大大的距離所以說你已經決定要發了嗎我剛跟我們報告過就是說我們已經核准過的因為政府是他執行公權力的部分那現在這幾家呢現在這幾家我們會再來請他們審慎思考你要審慎思考一下啦齁\n506869\t520740\t另外一個RBC的部分目前為止不足200的大概有多少家就您所掌握的RBC的部分其實上因為我們現在這個一家這一家現在RBC\n522146\t549148\t因為跟我們報告這是時間差的關係啦因為我們是每半年看一次不是每天在看 場地上就是12月31號跟6月30號我希望你時常好好的watch一下啦這個我們每天都在watch最後我還有一個問題要問您啦你知道今天央行的報告當中就是資本集中度雖然有下滑但是還過度於偏重於這一個不動產的部分\n551237\t575292\t現階段這個財政部有要求嚴格的管控希望不論這個建商的存款多少他要販款的部分的額度要朝向降低集中度降低不要偏重特定部門這也是符合央行目前的一個報告的方式但我就就教於主委啦財政部所管現在不過公股銀行八大銀行而已我想請教一下主委是不是應該所有的銀行都應該比照辦理啊\n576032\t604480\t其實我們已經逐步在做這件事也是這個是政策我們基於風險管理的角度其實央行的政策是整體國家的房地產政策不是只有針對公股銀行的房地產政策那如果是這樣子你覺得這樣下降的幅度怎麼樣其實因為這個市場上有它一定的我們也希望說能夠用政策的導引我們也確實看到剛剛講那個不管成長率或是真的也在下降中好\n605660\t633310\t謝謝主委我耽誤一下主席一分鐘主委還有我謝謝主席而已最後一個部分主委有一個委託書的制度我不談個案我談這個一般而言外資來到台灣10%以上的話要經過我們的投審會10%以下的話他基本上可以透過有限徵求或無限徵求的方式比如說10%以下他的有限徵求跟無限徵求都可以達到一定的程度介入這個經營權\n635891\t655873\t這個問題確實是我覺得是一個漏洞這個確實我們正在檢討這件事情因為當時任何的外資在投資台灣都有他的目的目的不同審核的程序是不同的那我們也在盤點這些是否有些可能被拿來做一個不當利用我們正在處理中\n656474\t670853\t然後舉其例啦譬如講你如果化齡為整而想要經營爭奪這個經營權或介入經營權的情況底下是不是應該再回到投審會的方式再審查一次這個其實我們一開始審查就是分流\n671394\t690035\t是一個比如說你是一個直接投資FDI還有就是超過一定股權以上本來就是由投審會來做這個審查其他所謂的目的單純的財務投資那當然就是由金管會基於因為國際的資金的流通所以如果說你的目的是不同的那當然就要就是換軌嘛\n691496\t705020\t就要回到他的本意去對 應該回到投審會一起來審查他才能夠公開的介入沒有 這個本來就是當處理分流的本意對啦 麻煩你跟投審會我們已經在處理中達成一個機制的設計好不好是的好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝郭委員的諮詢下一位請賴會員召委諮詢進謝謝主席有請金管會彭主委還有警察局賴局長\n720776\t721152\t來\n","txt":"主委你好主委最近有一家公司中頂工程公司出了一個大狀況他的運送賬款高達196億他總淨值也不過是196億就這麼剛好\n可是這裡頭有很大的問題就是說中頂在兩年前去製造這個工程款有出一些問題但是還不斷地投入這個工程費用累積起來的金額才會虧損越來越大但是該發重訊的時候\n他發了但是卻是不死的重訓說對他財務都沒有什麼影響但是今年第一期已經認列31億的虧損還自稱說他可以收回來後續的196億可是問題雙方的合約的認知當中就差了4億美元也就是說4億美元當中呢是雙方的認知的差異就120億根本收不回來的情況底下他對外還宣稱他可以收了回來\n這家中頂公司呢在過去ESG的時候在治理的部分的評鑑是前5%的殊榮在ESG的治理評鑑而且連續六屆還有100億以上非金融電子業的前10%看起來表現這麼好但是呢這結果在它4月16號的時候在突然告訴大家說有196億可能收不回來股價連跌四天這簡直是在坑殺股民嘛\n股民當下就當損失了35%而且不只是股民損失連員工啊三個員工信託還損失了18億而且還有三家銀行也倒楣永豐銀行彰化銀行還有玉山銀行可是這件事情啊我看到就只有徵交所因為違約的問題罰他20萬從頭到尾都沒有看到主管機關金管會表示過任何意見主委是狀況外嗎\n我想這個如果說剛才像委員提到是因為重訓的問題還有這樣合約的問題我們交易所確實會有一套的程序就如委員講的這個不過這個金額重大也影響到市場的這個剛才看到這個股價有顯著的影響嚴重一點這搞不好是變相的掏空欸嚴重一點搞不好是特別背信欸主委\n196億欸 坑殺多少股民他對外謊稱還說可以收回來100多億事實上合約落差就差了4億美元之多啊不時中憲的處罰最低28 最高480這其實局都沒有動欸我不知道張局長在忙什麼主委你在忙什麼這件事情監管會完全狀況外而且他還有市民讀懂喔\n這四名獨董都是在馬鞍九時期的官員喔一個是李建宗喔工程委員會副主委施能祥以前當過經濟部長喔還有一個央行的外匯局局長喔顏輝煌喔都是一時之選啊四個獨董是啞巴是不是跟委員報告一下現在交易所還在瞭解中交易所還在瞭解中你這是官話嘛\n已經兩三年了4月份就虧損了35%你現在告訴我交易所還在了解說交易所已經罰他20萬了是你正期會需要了解中吧重大訊息都沒有做任何的表示意見這件事情要怎麼處理這個案子我會立刻請我們交易所審慎來處理一來內控失靈啊二來有沒有外控機制啊\n類似這麼重大事件我們的投保中心或者我們的相關的主管機關銀行局或者保險局能不能委託會計處去查核 去了解主委\n這些部分的話是說這跟我們的保險局是要去查核我會請我們政企局跟交易所來好好來處理這個案子對啦事情已經這麼嚴重了而且還不只一家咧後面還有耶後面還有一個台積電的概念股\n這個叫萬刃科技他明明是受到駭客的這一個集團的勒索在4月20號重大訊息的時候說沒有個資沒有機密的問題沒有重大文件的歪落結果5月17號人家就把他公布出來了一樣是重大訊息不是金管會有沒有做什麼類似的事件啊我想剛才委員提到一而再再而三的發生啊主委\n兩個案子多久給本席答覆\n我想當然這個時間我們會盡快但是這部分應該是要我不是背賴我相信你的辦事能力先釐清先釐清主委我再就教您一個問題這個問題您是專家那我是粗淺的了解是不管\n但是就相關的數字當中大家都知道台幣的升值對受選公司的影響非常之大在四月份的時候就已經六大公司就已經虧損一百八十億那時候升值不過三點六四五月份的時候升值超過六\n那我們知道淨池是浮動的但是呢保險公司因為淨池的浮動視為一個利多或利空的現象的各自解讀只要賺錢他說是對的虧錢也說是對的但是呢在帳與碟之間差別非常的大在2021年的時候有一年金管會就核准了9家受險公司給他發562億的現金鼓勵去年又出現了赤膏\n聽說有好幾家這個受選公司說也要求比照辦理要發240億的現金鼓勵有沒有這回事其實應該是這樣講就是說公司的經營比如說今年看到的現金鼓勵發放其實是去年績效我想這個大概都是按照這個規定來做那\n保險業比較特殊他們的現金鼓勵的發放要經過我們保險局的審查也是要考慮到這個問題那如果說他已經比如說已經這個程序做完了東西那他已經程序做完了那符合這個規定他當然去發那至於說你要讓他發了嗎\n這個東西先跟委員報告一下就是說我們今天假設說還在程序中的話因為這部分的話我們也要尊重因為我們做完的裁定這是去年的事情剛剛講損益的數字波動也有我們已經考量到現金發放我們已經考量到它很多人的因素已經作賜了2021發完沒多久美國升息禁止暴跌之後隔年這個星光人壽就因為RBC不足然後就要增資了嗎\n你不覺得很荒謬嗎這個當然委員關係的事啦像比如說我們有些公司如果還沒有發放的他來申請的我們就會跟他請他做這個評估你這四家我認為你要好好的思考清楚其實每一家都要好好思考對 每一家都要好好思考每一次申請都要好好思考當然我們現金鼓勵你隨便讓他賬面稍微好一點那改天又跌了\n在漲與跌之間然後就在漲的時候就可以發股利跌的時候又不一定拿得出錢你看現在RBC的狀況其實我們現在的審查機制已經考慮到這些內容因為像我們其他的銀行的話它是不需要做這樣的審查因為財報的屬性剛剛委員講的財報的屬性不一樣您最清楚啦我會私底下才能請教您啦可是這個問題就是因為受顯業的特殊性嘛\n不應該他跟一般公司一樣嘛 帳面上看起來好像有就可以發但是帳面上沒有的時候他補不出來啊如果真的去了解他比如說財報上的損益跟他真的發放其實會有大大的距離所以說你已經決定要發了嗎我剛跟我們報告過就是說我們已經核准過的因為政府是他執行公權力的部分那現在這幾家呢現在這幾家我們會再來請他們審慎思考你要審慎思考一下啦齁\n另外一個RBC的部分目前為止不足200的大概有多少家就您所掌握的RBC的部分其實上因為我們現在這個一家這一家現在RBC\n因為跟我們報告這是時間差的關係啦因為我們是每半年看一次不是每天在看 場地上就是12月31號跟6月30號我希望你時常好好的watch一下啦這個我們每天都在watch最後我還有一個問題要問您啦你知道今天央行的報告當中就是資本集中度雖然有下滑但是還過度於偏重於這一個不動產的部分\n現階段這個財政部有要求嚴格的管控希望不論這個建商的存款多少他要販款的部分的額度要朝向降低集中度降低不要偏重特定部門這也是符合央行目前的一個報告的方式但我就就教於主委啦財政部所管現在不過公股銀行八大銀行而已我想請教一下主委是不是應該所有的銀行都應該比照辦理啊\n其實我們已經逐步在做這件事也是這個是政策我們基於風險管理的角度其實央行的政策是整體國家的房地產政策不是只有針對公股銀行的房地產政策那如果是這樣子你覺得這樣下降的幅度怎麼樣其實因為這個市場上有它一定的我們也希望說能夠用政策的導引我們也確實看到剛剛講那個不管成長率或是真的也在下降中好\n謝謝主委我耽誤一下主席一分鐘主委還有我謝謝主席而已最後一個部分主委有一個委託書的制度我不談個案我談這個一般而言外資來到台灣10%以上的話要經過我們的投審會10%以下的話他基本上可以透過有限徵求或無限徵求的方式比如說10%以下他的有限徵求跟無限徵求都可以達到一定的程度介入這個經營權\n這個問題確實是我覺得是一個漏洞這個確實我們正在檢討這件事情因為當時任何的外資在投資台灣都有他的目的目的不同審核的程序是不同的那我們也在盤點這些是否有些可能被拿來做一個不當利用我們正在處理中\n然後舉其例啦譬如講你如果化齡為整而想要經營爭奪這個經營權或介入經營權的情況底下是不是應該再回到投審會的方式再審查一次這個其實我們一開始審查就是分流\n是一個比如說你是一個直接投資FDI還有就是超過一定股權以上本來就是由投審會來做這個審查其他所謂的目的單純的財務投資那當然就是由金管會基於因為國際的資金的流通所以如果說你的目的是不同的那當然就要就是換軌嘛\n就要回到他的本意去對 應該回到投審會一起來審查他才能夠公開的介入沒有 這個本來就是當處理分流的本意對啦 麻煩你跟投審會我們已經在處理中達成一個機制的設計好不好是的好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝郭委員的諮詢下一位請賴會員召委諮詢進謝謝主席有請金管會彭主委還有警察局賴局長\n來\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.419 --> 00:10.768\n主委你好主委最近有一家公司中頂工程公司出了一個大狀況他的運送賬款高達196億他總淨值也不過是196億就這麼剛好\n\n00:19.039 --> 00:34.193\n可是這裡頭有很大的問題就是說中頂在兩年前去製造這個工程款有出一些問題但是還不斷地投入這個工程費用累積起來的金額才會虧損越來越大但是該發重訊的時候\n\n00:35.194 --> 00:59.094\n他發了但是卻是不死的重訓說對他財務都沒有什麼影響但是今年第一期已經認列31億的虧損還自稱說他可以收回來後續的196億可是問題雙方的合約的認知當中就差了4億美元也就是說4億美元當中呢是雙方的認知的差異就120億根本收不回來的情況底下他對外還宣稱他可以收了回來\n\n01:01.457 --> 01:26.853\n這家中頂公司呢在過去ESG的時候在治理的部分的評鑑是前5%的殊榮在ESG的治理評鑑而且連續六屆還有100億以上非金融電子業的前10%看起來表現這麼好但是呢這結果在它4月16號的時候在突然告訴大家說有196億可能收不回來股價連跌四天這簡直是在坑殺股民嘛\n\n01:28.462 --> 01:56.872\n股民當下就當損失了35%而且不只是股民損失連員工啊三個員工信託還損失了18億而且還有三家銀行也倒楣永豐銀行彰化銀行還有玉山銀行可是這件事情啊我看到就只有徵交所因為違約的問題罰他20萬從頭到尾都沒有看到主管機關金管會表示過任何意見主委是狀況外嗎\n\n01:58.400 --> 02:21.686\n我想這個如果說剛才像委員提到是因為重訓的問題還有這樣合約的問題我們交易所確實會有一套的程序就如委員講的這個不過這個金額重大也影響到市場的這個剛才看到這個股價有顯著的影響嚴重一點這搞不好是變相的掏空欸嚴重一點搞不好是特別背信欸主委\n\n02:24.928 --> 02:50.449\n196億欸坑殺多少股民他對外謊稱還說可以收回來100多億事實上合約落差就差了4億美元之多啊不時中憲的處罰最低28最高480這其實局都沒有動欸我不知道張局長在忙什麼主委你在忙什麼這件事情監管會完全狀況外而且他還有市民讀懂喔\n\n02:51.753 --> 03:13.566\n這四名獨董都是在馬鞍九時期的官員喔一個是李建宗喔工程委員會副主委施能祥以前當過經濟部長喔還有一個央行的外匯局局長喔顏輝煌喔都是一時之選啊四個獨董是啞巴是不是跟委員報告一下現在交易所還在瞭解中交易所還在瞭解中你這是官話嘛\n\n03:15.294 --> 03:43.767\n已經兩三年了4月份就虧損了35%你現在告訴我交易所還在了解說交易所已經罰他20萬了是你正期會需要了解中吧重大訊息都沒有做任何的表示意見這件事情要怎麼處理這個案子我會立刻請我們交易所審慎來處理一來內控失靈啊二來有沒有外控機制啊\n\n03:45.798 --> 03:58.816\n類似這麼重大事件我們的投保中心或者我們的相關的主管機關銀行局或者保險局能不能委託會計處去查核去了解主委\n\n04:04.213 --> 04:22.372\n這些部分的話是說這跟我們的保險局是要去查核我會請我們政企局跟交易所來好好來處理這個案子對啦事情已經這麼嚴重了而且還不只一家咧後面還有耶後面還有一個台積電的概念股\n\n04:23.873 --> 04:49.826\n這個叫萬刃科技他明明是受到駭客的這一個集團的勒索在4月20號重大訊息的時候說沒有個資沒有機密的問題沒有重大文件的歪落結果5月17號人家就把他公布出來了一樣是重大訊息不是金管會有沒有做什麼類似的事件啊我想剛才委員提到一而再再而三的發生啊主委\n\n04:50.796 --> 04:51.357\n兩個案子多久給本席答覆\n\n05:09.794 --> 05:25.193\n我想當然這個時間我們會盡快但是這部分應該是要我不是背賴我相信你的辦事能力先釐清先釐清主委我再就教您一個問題這個問題您是專家那我是粗淺的了解是不管\n\n05:25.333 --> 05:39.189\n但是就相關的數字當中大家都知道台幣的升值對受選公司的影響非常之大在四月份的時候就已經六大公司就已經虧損一百八十億那時候升值不過三點六四五月份的時候升值超過六\n\n05:40.410 --> 06:04.540\n那我們知道淨池是浮動的但是呢保險公司因為淨池的浮動視為一個利多或利空的現象的各自解讀只要賺錢他說是對的虧錢也說是對的但是呢在帳與碟之間差別非常的大在2021年的時候有一年金管會就核准了9家受險公司給他發562億的現金鼓勵去年又出現了赤膏\n\n06:11.557 --> 06:30.096\n聽說有好幾家這個受選公司說也要求比照辦理要發240億的現金鼓勵有沒有這回事其實應該是這樣講就是說公司的經營比如說今年看到的現金鼓勵發放其實是去年績效我想這個大概都是按照這個規定來做那\n\n06:30.757 --> 06:46.580\n保險業比較特殊他們的現金鼓勵的發放要經過我們保險局的審查也是要考慮到這個問題那如果說他已經比如說已經這個程序做完了東西那他已經程序做完了那符合這個規定他當然去發那至於說你要讓他發了嗎\n\n06:48.101 --> 07:15.126\n這個東西先跟委員報告一下就是說我們今天假設說還在程序中的話因為這部分的話我們也要尊重因為我們做完的裁定這是去年的事情剛剛講損益的數字波動也有我們已經考量到現金發放我們已經考量到它很多人的因素已經作賜了2021發完沒多久美國升息禁止暴跌之後隔年這個星光人壽就因為RBC不足然後就要增資了嗎\n\n07:15.686 --> 07:37.017\n你不覺得很荒謬嗎這個當然委員關係的事啦像比如說我們有些公司如果還沒有發放的他來申請的我們就會跟他請他做這個評估你這四家我認為你要好好的思考清楚其實每一家都要好好思考對每一家都要好好思考每一次申請都要好好思考當然我們現金鼓勵你隨便讓他賬面稍微好一點那改天又跌了\n\n07:37.657 --> 07:57.934\n在漲與跌之間然後就在漲的時候就可以發股利跌的時候又不一定拿得出錢你看現在RBC的狀況其實我們現在的審查機制已經考慮到這些內容因為像我們其他的銀行的話它是不需要做這樣的審查因為財報的屬性剛剛委員講的財報的屬性不一樣您最清楚啦我會私底下才能請教您啦可是這個問題就是因為受顯業的特殊性嘛\n\n08:01.417 --> 08:25.909\n不應該他跟一般公司一樣嘛帳面上看起來好像有就可以發但是帳面上沒有的時候他補不出來啊如果真的去了解他比如說財報上的損益跟他真的發放其實會有大大的距離所以說你已經決定要發了嗎我剛跟我們報告過就是說我們已經核准過的因為政府是他執行公權力的部分那現在這幾家呢現在這幾家我們會再來請他們審慎思考你要審慎思考一下啦齁\n\n08:26.869 --> 08:40.740\n另外一個RBC的部分目前為止不足200的大概有多少家就您所掌握的RBC的部分其實上因為我們現在這個一家這一家現在RBC\n\n08:42.146 --> 09:09.148\n因為跟我們報告這是時間差的關係啦因為我們是每半年看一次不是每天在看場地上就是12月31號跟6月30號我希望你時常好好的watch一下啦這個我們每天都在watch最後我還有一個問題要問您啦你知道今天央行的報告當中就是資本集中度雖然有下滑但是還過度於偏重於這一個不動產的部分\n\n09:11.237 --> 09:35.292\n現階段這個財政部有要求嚴格的管控希望不論這個建商的存款多少他要販款的部分的額度要朝向降低集中度降低不要偏重特定部門這也是符合央行目前的一個報告的方式但我就就教於主委啦財政部所管現在不過公股銀行八大銀行而已我想請教一下主委是不是應該所有的銀行都應該比照辦理啊\n\n09:36.032 --> 10:04.480\n其實我們已經逐步在做這件事也是這個是政策我們基於風險管理的角度其實央行的政策是整體國家的房地產政策不是只有針對公股銀行的房地產政策那如果是這樣子你覺得這樣下降的幅度怎麼樣其實因為這個市場上有它一定的我們也希望說能夠用政策的導引我們也確實看到剛剛講那個不管成長率或是真的也在下降中好\n\n10:05.660 --> 10:33.310\n謝謝主委我耽誤一下主席一分鐘主委還有我謝謝主席而已最後一個部分主委有一個委託書的制度我不談個案我談這個一般而言外資來到台灣10%以上的話要經過我們的投審會10%以下的話他基本上可以透過有限徵求或無限徵求的方式比如說10%以下他的有限徵求跟無限徵求都可以達到一定的程度介入這個經營權\n\n10:35.891 --> 10:55.873\n這個問題確實是我覺得是一個漏洞這個確實我們正在檢討這件事情因為當時任何的外資在投資台灣都有他的目的目的不同審核的程序是不同的那我們也在盤點這些是否有些可能被拿來做一個不當利用我們正在處理中\n\n10:56.474 --> 11:10.853\n然後舉其例啦譬如講你如果化齡為整而想要經營爭奪這個經營權或介入經營權的情況底下是不是應該再回到投審會的方式再審查一次這個其實我們一開始審查就是分流\n\n11:11.394 --> 11:30.035\n是一個比如說你是一個直接投資FDI還有就是超過一定股權以上本來就是由投審會來做這個審查其他所謂的目的單純的財務投資那當然就是由金管會基於因為國際的資金的流通所以如果說你的目的是不同的那當然就要就是換軌嘛\n\n11:31.496 --> 11:45.020\n就要回到他的本意去對應該回到投審會一起來審查他才能夠公開的介入沒有這個本來就是當處理分流的本意對啦麻煩你跟投審會我們已經在處理中達成一個機制的設計好不好是的好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝郭委員的諮詢下一位請賴會員召委諮詢進謝謝主席有請金管會彭主委還有警察局賴局長\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.419,"end":10.768,"text":"主委你好主委最近有一家公司中頂工程公司出了一個大狀況他的運送賬款高達196億他總淨值也不過是196億就這麼剛好"},{"start":19.039,"end":34.193,"text":"可是這裡頭有很大的問題就是說中頂在兩年前去製造這個工程款有出一些問題但是還不斷地投入這個工程費用累積起來的金額才會虧損越來越大但是該發重訊的時候"},{"start":35.194,"end":59.094,"text":"他發了但是卻是不死的重訓說對他財務都沒有什麼影響但是今年第一期已經認列31億的虧損還自稱說他可以收回來後續的196億可是問題雙方的合約的認知當中就差了4億美元也就是說4億美元當中呢是雙方的認知的差異就120億根本收不回來的情況底下他對外還宣稱他可以收了回來"},{"start":61.457,"end":86.853,"text":"這家中頂公司呢在過去ESG的時候在治理的部分的評鑑是前5%的殊榮在ESG的治理評鑑而且連續六屆還有100億以上非金融電子業的前10%看起來表現這麼好但是呢這結果在它4月16號的時候在突然告訴大家說有196億可能收不回來股價連跌四天這簡直是在坑殺股民嘛"},{"start":88.462,"end":116.872,"text":"股民當下就當損失了35%而且不只是股民損失連員工啊三個員工信託還損失了18億而且還有三家銀行也倒楣永豐銀行彰化銀行還有玉山銀行可是這件事情啊我看到就只有徵交所因為違約的問題罰他20萬從頭到尾都沒有看到主管機關金管會表示過任何意見主委是狀況外嗎"},{"start":118.4,"end":141.686,"text":"我想這個如果說剛才像委員提到是因為重訓的問題還有這樣合約的問題我們交易所確實會有一套的程序就如委員講的這個不過這個金額重大也影響到市場的這個剛才看到這個股價有顯著的影響嚴重一點這搞不好是變相的掏空欸嚴重一點搞不好是特別背信欸主委"},{"start":144.928,"end":170.449,"text":"196億欸 坑殺多少股民他對外謊稱還說可以收回來100多億事實上合約落差就差了4億美元之多啊不時中憲的處罰最低28 最高480這其實局都沒有動欸我不知道張局長在忙什麼主委你在忙什麼這件事情監管會完全狀況外而且他還有市民讀懂喔"},{"start":171.753,"end":193.566,"text":"這四名獨董都是在馬鞍九時期的官員喔一個是李建宗喔工程委員會副主委施能祥以前當過經濟部長喔還有一個央行的外匯局局長喔顏輝煌喔都是一時之選啊四個獨董是啞巴是不是跟委員報告一下現在交易所還在瞭解中交易所還在瞭解中你這是官話嘛"},{"start":195.294,"end":223.767,"text":"已經兩三年了4月份就虧損了35%你現在告訴我交易所還在了解說交易所已經罰他20萬了是你正期會需要了解中吧重大訊息都沒有做任何的表示意見這件事情要怎麼處理這個案子我會立刻請我們交易所審慎來處理一來內控失靈啊二來有沒有外控機制啊"},{"start":225.798,"end":238.816,"text":"類似這麼重大事件我們的投保中心或者我們的相關的主管機關銀行局或者保險局能不能委託會計處去查核 去了解主委"},{"start":244.213,"end":262.372,"text":"這些部分的話是說這跟我們的保險局是要去查核我會請我們政企局跟交易所來好好來處理這個案子對啦事情已經這麼嚴重了而且還不只一家咧後面還有耶後面還有一個台積電的概念股"},{"start":263.873,"end":289.826,"text":"這個叫萬刃科技他明明是受到駭客的這一個集團的勒索在4月20號重大訊息的時候說沒有個資沒有機密的問題沒有重大文件的歪落結果5月17號人家就把他公布出來了一樣是重大訊息不是金管會有沒有做什麼類似的事件啊我想剛才委員提到一而再再而三的發生啊主委"},{"start":290.796,"end":291.357,"text":"兩個案子多久給本席答覆"},{"start":309.794,"end":325.193,"text":"我想當然這個時間我們會盡快但是這部分應該是要我不是背賴我相信你的辦事能力先釐清先釐清主委我再就教您一個問題這個問題您是專家那我是粗淺的了解是不管"},{"start":325.333,"end":339.189,"text":"但是就相關的數字當中大家都知道台幣的升值對受選公司的影響非常之大在四月份的時候就已經六大公司就已經虧損一百八十億那時候升值不過三點六四五月份的時候升值超過六"},{"start":340.41,"end":364.54,"text":"那我們知道淨池是浮動的但是呢保險公司因為淨池的浮動視為一個利多或利空的現象的各自解讀只要賺錢他說是對的虧錢也說是對的但是呢在帳與碟之間差別非常的大在2021年的時候有一年金管會就核准了9家受險公司給他發562億的現金鼓勵去年又出現了赤膏"},{"start":371.557,"end":390.096,"text":"聽說有好幾家這個受選公司說也要求比照辦理要發240億的現金鼓勵有沒有這回事其實應該是這樣講就是說公司的經營比如說今年看到的現金鼓勵發放其實是去年績效我想這個大概都是按照這個規定來做那"},{"start":390.757,"end":406.58,"text":"保險業比較特殊他們的現金鼓勵的發放要經過我們保險局的審查也是要考慮到這個問題那如果說他已經比如說已經這個程序做完了東西那他已經程序做完了那符合這個規定他當然去發那至於說你要讓他發了嗎"},{"start":408.101,"end":435.126,"text":"這個東西先跟委員報告一下就是說我們今天假設說還在程序中的話因為這部分的話我們也要尊重因為我們做完的裁定這是去年的事情剛剛講損益的數字波動也有我們已經考量到現金發放我們已經考量到它很多人的因素已經作賜了2021發完沒多久美國升息禁止暴跌之後隔年這個星光人壽就因為RBC不足然後就要增資了嗎"},{"start":435.686,"end":457.017,"text":"你不覺得很荒謬嗎這個當然委員關係的事啦像比如說我們有些公司如果還沒有發放的他來申請的我們就會跟他請他做這個評估你這四家我認為你要好好的思考清楚其實每一家都要好好思考對 每一家都要好好思考每一次申請都要好好思考當然我們現金鼓勵你隨便讓他賬面稍微好一點那改天又跌了"},{"start":457.657,"end":477.934,"text":"在漲與跌之間然後就在漲的時候就可以發股利跌的時候又不一定拿得出錢你看現在RBC的狀況其實我們現在的審查機制已經考慮到這些內容因為像我們其他的銀行的話它是不需要做這樣的審查因為財報的屬性剛剛委員講的財報的屬性不一樣您最清楚啦我會私底下才能請教您啦可是這個問題就是因為受顯業的特殊性嘛"},{"start":481.417,"end":505.909,"text":"不應該他跟一般公司一樣嘛 帳面上看起來好像有就可以發但是帳面上沒有的時候他補不出來啊如果真的去了解他比如說財報上的損益跟他真的發放其實會有大大的距離所以說你已經決定要發了嗎我剛跟我們報告過就是說我們已經核准過的因為政府是他執行公權力的部分那現在這幾家呢現在這幾家我們會再來請他們審慎思考你要審慎思考一下啦齁"},{"start":506.869,"end":520.74,"text":"另外一個RBC的部分目前為止不足200的大概有多少家就您所掌握的RBC的部分其實上因為我們現在這個一家這一家現在RBC"},{"start":522.146,"end":549.148,"text":"因為跟我們報告這是時間差的關係啦因為我們是每半年看一次不是每天在看 場地上就是12月31號跟6月30號我希望你時常好好的watch一下啦這個我們每天都在watch最後我還有一個問題要問您啦你知道今天央行的報告當中就是資本集中度雖然有下滑但是還過度於偏重於這一個不動產的部分"},{"start":551.237,"end":575.292,"text":"現階段這個財政部有要求嚴格的管控希望不論這個建商的存款多少他要販款的部分的額度要朝向降低集中度降低不要偏重特定部門這也是符合央行目前的一個報告的方式但我就就教於主委啦財政部所管現在不過公股銀行八大銀行而已我想請教一下主委是不是應該所有的銀行都應該比照辦理啊"},{"start":576.032,"end":604.48,"text":"其實我們已經逐步在做這件事也是這個是政策我們基於風險管理的角度其實央行的政策是整體國家的房地產政策不是只有針對公股銀行的房地產政策那如果是這樣子你覺得這樣下降的幅度怎麼樣其實因為這個市場上有它一定的我們也希望說能夠用政策的導引我們也確實看到剛剛講那個不管成長率或是真的也在下降中好"},{"start":605.66,"end":633.31,"text":"謝謝主委我耽誤一下主席一分鐘主委還有我謝謝主席而已最後一個部分主委有一個委託書的制度我不談個案我談這個一般而言外資來到台灣10%以上的話要經過我們的投審會10%以下的話他基本上可以透過有限徵求或無限徵求的方式比如說10%以下他的有限徵求跟無限徵求都可以達到一定的程度介入這個經營權"},{"start":635.891,"end":655.873,"text":"這個問題確實是我覺得是一個漏洞這個確實我們正在檢討這件事情因為當時任何的外資在投資台灣都有他的目的目的不同審核的程序是不同的那我們也在盤點這些是否有些可能被拿來做一個不當利用我們正在處理中"},{"start":656.474,"end":670.853,"text":"然後舉其例啦譬如講你如果化齡為整而想要經營爭奪這個經營權或介入經營權的情況底下是不是應該再回到投審會的方式再審查一次這個其實我們一開始審查就是分流"},{"start":671.394,"end":690.035,"text":"是一個比如說你是一個直接投資FDI還有就是超過一定股權以上本來就是由投審會來做這個審查其他所謂的目的單純的財務投資那當然就是由金管會基於因為國際的資金的流通所以如果說你的目的是不同的那當然就要就是換軌嘛"},{"start":691.496,"end":705.02,"text":"就要回到他的本意去對 應該回到投審會一起來審查他才能夠公開的介入沒有 這個本來就是當處理分流的本意對啦 麻煩你跟投審會我們已經在處理中達成一個機制的設計好不好是的好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝郭委員的諮詢下一位請賴會員召委諮詢進謝謝主席有請金管會彭主委還有警察局賴局長"},{"start":720.776,"end":721.152,"text":"來"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":593,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（10時20分）謝謝主席，有請金管會彭主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員早。"],["郭委員國文：主委你好。最近中鼎工程公司出了一個大狀況，它的應收帳款居然高達196億，它的總淨值也不過是196億，就這麼剛好。這裡頭有很大的問題是中鼎在兩年前就知道工程款出了一些問題，卻還是不斷投入工程費用，不斷累積金額，才會虧損越來越大，雖然該發重訊的時候它發了，但卻是不實的重訊，說對它的財務都沒有什麼影響，但是今年第一季已經認列31億的虧損，還自稱說它可以收回來後續的196億，問題是雙方的合約認知當中就差了4億美元，也就是說在4億美元（相當於新臺幣120億）根本收不回來的情況底下，它對外還宣稱可以收得回來。中鼎公司在過去ESG治理評鑑獲得前5%的殊榮，而且連續六屆榮獲市值100億以上之非金融電子業類前10%，看起來表現這麼好，結果它在4月16號的時候突然告訴大家有196億可能收不回來，導致股價連跌四天，這簡直在坑殺股民嘛！股民當下就損失了35%，而且不只是股民損失，三個員工信託也損失了18億，另外還有三家銀行也倒楣，包括永豐銀行、彰化銀行和玉山銀行。針對這件事情，我看到就只有證交所因為違約的問題罰它20萬，從頭到尾都沒有看到主管機關金管會表示過任何意見，請問主委是狀況外嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果是像剛才委員提到是因為重訊的問題以及合約的問題，交易所確實會有一套程序，就如委員所講的，不過這個金額重大也影響到市場，剛才也看到對於股價有顯著的影響……"],["郭委員國文：嚴重一點這搞不好是變相的掏空，嚴重一點搞不好是特別背信耶！主委，196億耶！坑殺多少股民，它還對外謊稱說可以收回來一百多億，事實上合約落差就差了4億美元之多，不實重訊的處罰最低28，最高480，證期局都沒有動，不知道張局長在忙什麼？請問主委你在忙什麼？這件事情金管會完全狀況外！而且它有四名獨董，這四名獨董都是馬英九時期的官員，其中一個是李建中，他是工程委員會的副主委；施顏祥以前當過經濟部長；還有一個央行的外匯局局長顏輝煌。這些人都是一時之選，四個獨董是啞巴是不是？"],["張局長振山：跟委員報告，現在交易所還在了解中。"],["郭委員國文：交易所還在了解中？你這是官話嘛！已經兩、三年了，4月份就虧損了35%，你現在告訴我交易所還在了解中？交易所已經罰它20萬了，是你證期局需要了解中吧！對重大訊息都沒有表示任何意見！這件事情要怎麼處理？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個案子我會立刻請交易所審慎來處理。"],["郭委員國文：一來內控失靈，二來有沒有外控機制？類似這麼重大的事件，投保中心或者相關主管機關，包括銀行局或保險局，能不能委託會計師去查核、去了解？"],["彭主任委員金隆：針對這些部分，保險局是要去查核，我會請證期局和交易所好好來處理這個案子。"],["郭委員國文：對啦！事情已經這麼嚴重了，而且不只一家，後面還有耶！後面還有一個台積電的概念股叫做萬潤科技，它明明受到駭客集團的勒索，在4月20號的重大訊息當中說沒有個資外洩、沒有機密的問題、沒有重大文件外漏，結果5月17號人家就把它公布出來了，一樣是重大訊息不實，金管會有沒有做什麼？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想剛才委員提到這個案子……"],["郭委員國文：類似的事件一而再、再而三的發生，問題很嚴重耶！"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想如果真是重大事件……因為上市櫃公司家數非常多，情況也非常複雜，剛剛委員已經有提到這個案子，我想也是大家所注目的，我們會趕快來處理。"],["郭委員國文：這兩個案子多久給本席答復？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然我們會儘快，但這部分應該是要……"],["郭委員國文：好，我不設deadline，我相信你的辦事能力好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們先釐清，然後再處理。"],["郭委員國文：主委，我再就教您一個問題，這個問題您是專家，我則是粗淺的了解。"],["彭主任委員金隆：不敢。"],["郭委員國文：就相關的數字，大家都知道臺幣升值對壽險公司影響非常之大，在4月份的時候六大公司就已經虧損180億，那時候升值不過3.64，5月份的時候升值超過6。我們知道淨值是浮動的，對於保險公司的淨值浮動視為利多或利空的現象也是各自解讀，賺錢他說是對的，虧錢也說是對的，但是在漲與跌之間，差別非常大，在2021年的時候，金管會就核准九家壽險公司發放562億的現金股利，去年又出現了次高，聽說有好幾家壽險公司也要求比照辦理，要發240億的現金股利，有沒有這回事？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實應該是這樣講，就是公司的經營，比如今年看到的現金股利發放其實是去年的績效，我想大概都是按照這個規定來做。"],["郭委員國文：對。"],["彭主任委員金隆：保險業比較特殊，他們現金股利的發放要經過我們保險局的審查，也是要考慮到這個問題。如果比如它已經程序做完了，那就符合這個規定了，它當然去發，至於……"],["郭委員國文：你要讓它發了嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：先跟委員報告一下，今天假設還在程序中的話，這個部分我們也要尊重，因為我們做完了裁定，這是去年的事情，剛剛講了，損益的數字波動也有……現金發放，我們已經考量到它很多、很多因素已經做得非常……"],["郭委員國文：你知道它2021年發完沒多久，美國升息、淨值暴跌之後，隔年新光人壽就因為RBC不足，然後就要增資了嗎？你不覺得這很荒謬嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然委員關心得是，比如有些公司如果還沒有發放，它來申請，我們就會請它做評估。"],["郭委員國文：這4家我認為你要好好地思考清楚。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實每一家都要好好思考。"],["郭委員國文：對，每一家都要好好思考，每一次申請都要好好思考，畢竟壽險公司的體質這樣子……"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，我們現金股利……"],["郭委員國文：隨便讓它帳面稍微好一點，改天又跌了，在漲與跌之間，漲的時候就可以發股利，跌的時候又不一定拿得出錢，你看現在RBC的狀況……"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，其實我們現在的審查機制已經考慮到這些內容，因為像其他銀行的話，是不需要做這樣的審查，因為財報的屬性不一樣，就像剛才委員講的。"],["郭委員國文：對，您最清楚，我私底下常常請教您。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，我們一向很審慎。"],["郭委員國文：可是這個問題就是因為壽險業的特殊性嘛。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["郭委員國文：它不應該跟一般公司一樣，帳面上看起來好像有就可以發，問題是帳面上沒有的時候，它補不出來啊。"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果真的去瞭解比如它財報上面的損益跟它真的發放的，其實會有一大段距離。"],["郭委員國文：所以已經決定要發了嗎？你們核准了嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我剛剛跟委員報告過，我們已經核准過的，因為政府是執行公權力的部分……"],["郭委員國文：那現在這幾家呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在這幾家我們會再來請他們審慎思考。"],["郭委員國文：請他們審慎思考一下。另外一個RBC的部分，就你所掌握的，目前為止不足200的大概有多少家？"],["彭主任委員金隆：RBC的部分，因為我們現在……1家。"],["郭委員國文：只有1家？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在RBC……跟委員報告，這是時間差的關係，因為我們是每半年看一次，不是每天在看。"],["郭委員國文：希望只有1家。"],["彭主任委員金隆：法定上就是12月31日及6月30日。"],["郭委員國文：我希望你時常好好地watch一下。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個我們每天都在watch。"],["郭委員國文：最後我還有一個問題要問您。今天央行的報告當中指出，資金集中度雖然有下滑，但還是過度偏重於不動產的部分。現階段財政部有要求嚴格的管控，希望不論建商的存款多少，其放款部分的額度要朝向降低，也就是集中度降低，不要偏重特定部門，這也符合央行目前報告的方式。我就教於主委，財政部所管轄的不過公股銀行、八大銀行而已，我想請教一下主委，是不是所有的銀行都應該比照辦理？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實我們已經逐步在做這件事。"],["郭委員國文：這個是政策，也就是所有不論是……"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們基於風險管理的角度，其實央行的政策是整體國家房地產政策，不是只有針對公股銀行的房地產政策。"],["郭委員國文：如果是這樣子，你覺得下降的幅度怎麼樣？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實因為市場上有它一定的……我們也希望能夠用政策的導引，我們也確實看到剛才講的不管成長率等等真的有在下降中。"],["郭委員國文：好，謝謝主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：我耽誤一下主席1分鐘，主委，還有，我謝謝主席而已。最後一個部分，主委，有一個委託書的制度，我不談個案，一般而言，外資來到臺灣投資，10%以上的話要經過投審會，10%以下的話，基本上可以透過有限徵求或無限徵求的方式，也就是說，10%以下的部分，有限徵求及無限徵求都可以達到一定程度介入經營權，我覺得這個問題是一個漏洞。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這個確實……我們正在檢討這件事情，因為當時任何的外資投資臺灣都有其目的，目的不同，審核的程序是不同的，我們也在盤點是否有些可能被拿來做不當的利用，我們正在處理中。"],["郭委員國文：對，舉例來講，如果化零為整，想要爭奪經營權或介入經營權的情況底下，是不是應該再回到投審會的方式再審查一次？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實我們一開始審查就是分流，比如直接投資、FDI、還有超過一定股權以上，本來就是由投審會來做審查；其他所謂的目的單純的財務投資，那當然就是由金管會基於國際資金的流通……"],["郭委員國文：後來不單純啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果目的是不同的，那當然就要……"],["郭委員國文：就是換軌嘛。"],["彭主任委員金隆：就要回到它的本意去，我們正在……"],["郭委員國文：對，應該回到投審會一起來審查，它才能夠公開地介入或者用其他的方式處理。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個本來就是當時分流的本意。"],["郭委員國文：對，麻煩你跟投審會、經濟部來打理這個機制的設計，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的，我們已經在處理中。"],["郭委員國文：謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝郭委員的質詢。","下一位請賴惠員召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-13","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","羅明才","李坤城","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","陳玉珍","林思銘","王世堅","林楚茵","廖先翔","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷"],"page_start":299,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部、金融監督管理委員會、中央銀行就「房屋稅2.0課徵亂象與金融機構對不動產\n融資緊縮及中央銀行信用管制措施對房地產交易之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中\n華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案 39 案；\n三、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結專案報告\n案9案","agenda_id":"1145101_00008"}}}