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\"start\": 763.223, \"end\": 764.083, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 764.083, \"end\": 764.304, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 764.304, \"end\": 764.544, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 764.544, \"end\": 764.824, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 764.824, \"end\": 765.325, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 765.325, \"end\": 765.425, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 765.425, \"end\": 765.946, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 765.946, \"end\": 766.026, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 766.026, \"end\": 766.146, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 766.146, \"end\": 766.186, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 766.186, \"end\": 766.246, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 766.246, \"end\": 766.266, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"擇\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 766.266, \"end\": 766.306, \"score\": 0.494}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"擇\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"擇\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 766.306, \"end\": 766.526, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 766.526, \"end\": 766.666, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 766.666, \"end\": 766.766, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 766.766, \"end\": 766.786, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 766.786, \"end\": 766.826, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 766.826, \"end\": 766.907, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 766.907, \"end\": 766.927, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 766.927, \"end\": 766.947, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 766.947, \"end\": 766.967, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 766.967, \"end\": 766.987, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,264 --> 00:00:19,373\n好謝謝主席有請我們陳世凱部長請陳部長部長呼吸有沒有緩過來呼吸幾下再開始沒問題已經深呼吸三次了好我想這個直接進入是\n\n2\n00:00:21,175 --> 00:00:48,949\n最近大家非常關注的問題因為其實車禍車撞車相關的一些事故在台灣整個是蠻多的那最近連續三天發生了因為包括行車紀錄器各式的影片在網路上不斷的流傳讓我們全民覺得非常非常憂心尤其是行人的部分所以簡單來說近日從5月18號到520一天一起在網路盛傳影片的\n\n3\n00:00:49,469 --> 00:01:14,364\n行人甚至有些在店面我沒有出去走我在店面吃個早餐5月18號在花蓮市早餐店一輛車衝進去13人輕重傷駕駛47歲5月19號在新北三峽在國小前面32傷那個真的是非常非常車速非常快讓大家都覺得這真的太離譜了駕駛78歲\n\n4\n00:01:16,966 --> 00:01:36,923\n那昨天520搬在台南獄警很多影片新聞也出來了造成了一傷在獄警的一個老街那駕駛38歲我這樣列的這個意思啊事實上跟這個部長昨天在談的其實有些車禍他一個狀況有時候是高齡他可能是一個\n\n5\n00:01:37,964 --> 00:02:03,941\n因素但有一些其實跟年齡沒有關的一些駕駛行為觀念甚至車輛因素甚至道路設計的因素啊所以看起來這三個尤其在報章媒體披露第一個有疲勞駕駛甚至獄警是不是有癲癇這個我們都還不知道有待查證但是我覺得不同的類型的這個部分有關於說不管是犯罪違法理賠的部分我覺得主要是\n\n6\n00:02:05,101 --> 00:02:22,858\n檢警他們會處理那我們整個交通部門有這麼慘痛的一個經驗有沒有我們能夠做的是我們要去處理的一個問題啊但花蓮市是不是疲勞駕駛個人駕駛的一個因素是什麼520獄井獄井老街啊其實坦白講很美的地方\n\n7\n00:02:23,559 --> 00:02:40,039\n那這麼多的這麼多的客人有纜車到那邊去逛街但那邊的狀況有人行道都沒有你影片很清楚其實一半人是走在車道上面那這種狀況就是說駕駛當然不對嘛不夠小心嘛可是\n\n8\n00:02:40,740 --> 00:03:02,345\n我們要求別人的觀光區只能呈現這樣的一個水準或是說對行人保障這個我是覺得我們可以去做一些事情因為他很多老街他有騎樓但是騎樓是為什麼不通呢那我現在針對於中間這一項因為昨天我有聽到部長部長你昨天這個有四個方向嘛你再說一遍好不好\n\n9\n00:03:03,847 --> 00:03:29,200\n報告委員我們其實有幾個方向在做改革一方面我們將年齡下修到70歲您所關心的大概是年長者的這個駕照的換照的問題第一個部分是下修年齡那第二個部分是加強測驗的項目包含他對於危險的認知的測驗還有他一般的認知的測驗並且強化他的安全教育的課程我們希望他能夠參加講習至少半天以上\n\n10\n00:03:30,020 --> 00:03:55,983\n那這個部分是加強測驗的項目那另外就是說針對如果年長者你年紀已經很大了我們會鼓勵他可以繳回他的駕照不要再開車那如果是這樣的話公共運輸的補貼我們以後來提供TPAS的這個補助那另外關懷的對象我們現在就可以馬上啟動不用等整個修法我們現在針對時常有違規或者是事故的第一當事人我們就會啟動關懷那甚至是協助他怎麼樣安全駕駛\n\n11\n00:03:57,438 --> 00:04:19,463\n好因為我聽到你的一個方向其實有兩項包括在駕訓取得駕照的時候更為嚴謹這是沒有年齡限制的反正大家取得駕照可能是比較年輕的那回訓有違規回訓也是沒有年齡分配的對不對對這個沒有年齡限制的問題所以你這個昨天提出來的政策是全面向的\n\n12\n00:04:20,043 --> 00:04:45,053\n那我們請就5月19號因為大家最關注的幾個孩子的未來就這樣沒有了到底發生什麼事情當然駕駛人現在自己可能也在昏迷還沒有講清楚的一個情況之下如果目前初步來看如果沒有酒駕沒有獨駕然後車輛的問題不知道道路看起來有沒有什麼問題除這個之外駕駛的因素\n\n13\n00:04:46,213 --> 00:05:09,012\n我覺得現在媒體披露的我覺得作為政策未來可以考量一下第一個我們目前收集到一個民眾的一個訊息他是違規的慣犯甚至像下面這張圖是停在人行道我不知道那是不是他固定了車位還是上次五年前出車禍的一個情況那像這樣的一個情況未來會不會在你回訊的這個範圍我不知道要什麼樣的車禍你才會要回訊\n\n14\n00:05:14,036 --> 00:05:33,048\n那再來一次是不是高齡駕駛在前一個路口就已經迴轉倒車是不是躁逃那這還要查最後一個可不可能是任何的一個身心因素這個我說不準是不是身體發生什麼事或是心理是不是看到路就要罵人那種症狀\n\n15\n00:05:34,329 --> 00:05:51,101\n那這種情況我覺得有需要調查但是這中間有很多因素我覺得有些政策是不是不需要等到發生的時候也許可以偵測到這個的部分那我現在請問你第一個目前高齡駕駛換照你們現在預計因為明年預計從75歲下修到70歲這是列管年齡的\n\n16\n00:05:57,705 --> 00:06:22,114\n一個部分啦那我們看到其他的一個國家有從65歲開始當然啦也有70歲的到韓國可能對大概65歲就開始大概70那在台灣下修這個符合一般的一個標準但是第二個你要不要一併考量因為現在你還沒還要繼續考量那換照的間隔的年限就是從70歲每三年換一次\n\n17\n00:06:23,325 --> 00:06:45,677\n然後80歲會有像丹麥他可能到80歲以上每一年就要去換一次因為可能身體的一個變化會更大那這個部分你們會不會去考量這個間隔的年限會不會一併考量這個我們認為這個間隔的年限要有分級以年齡來做分級那這個部分我們會細部來討論怎麼樣的年齡的分級是比較合理的我們也會跟醫學單位大家一起來做諮詢\n\n18\n00:06:47,284 --> 00:07:08,749\n我也是建議你要分級一下分級一下參考一下第三個是患照的檢測的嚴謹度因為時間不夠我就直接說了以目前來看因為你們要改變目前來第一個是基本的體檢基本體檢為了幾個單位包括公立醫院包括衛生所還有部分的一個特別診所\n\n19\n00:07:09,469 --> 00:07:26,874\n目前就基本啦身高體重量一量視力有沒有色盲變色力聽力血壓大概基本的這個SOP檢查一遍但其中有一個呢是我們法定規定的說是不是有重大疾病我就問一下衛生署哇天啊你重大疾病你怎麼去檢測因為有一些\n\n20\n00:07:29,154 --> 00:07:57,534\n又沒有拿到傷病卡的可能不見得適合駕駛他其實是沒有辦法他說我只能去看目前的部分只能去看那這個的部分能不能增加這種東西不管是身心的這個疾病我覺得你們要一併去考量第二個認知功能的一個部分測試三個的部分那我的不要再重複了但是目前的情況總分是22分22分那你只要拿到10分\n\n21\n00:07:58,354 --> 00:08:24,419\n及格OK出去開車再開三年如果後面考試只得45分給他看十張圖只要記得三張OK及格那這個部分從民國106年到現在七到八年的時間這個部分我覺得你們要去思考一下尤其你現在不是要加入危險認知對不對對危險感知測驗\n\n22\n00:08:27,219 --> 00:08:52,445\n危險感知測驗但是危險感知測驗我真的一個良心的建議不要再公佈題庫了就是時中大家練了一天來這邊畫給你看其實對啦有意義啦就是你好歹這個穩穩的照抄要抄得出來我理解啦抄都抄不出來太危險了可是你危險感知一個臨時性的它的你知道嗎臨場感你不要又是題庫去練我覺得總要有一兩項\n\n23\n00:08:53,625 --> 00:09:06,536\n報告我們那個有現場測試他的反應速度的那會不會有題庫啊那個不會有題庫啦真的嗎你現在全部都有題庫喔那再來齁你危險感知的一個部分啊你現在的目前檢測以桃園市113年總共\n\n24\n00:09:09,358 --> 00:09:37,515\n有這個特約醫院8311人他去特約醫院檢查啦體檢啦認知測驗就特約醫院啦他們的可能服務比較好啦那公立醫院跟衛生所這公家單位大概只有7.3%啦現況所以你現在的意思說在決定政策的時候到最終的執行者以目前來看九成都是特約醫院假設你要相關的一些設備相關的場域如果要的部分請你要把這個併入政策\n\n25\n00:09:38,596 --> 00:09:50,270\n那最後一個問題部長還是市長你回答一下是不是這個認知功能測驗一定要做是不是一定要做\n\n26\n00:09:51,887 --> 00:10:15,025\n跟委員報告一下認知功能其實這套認知功能基本上就是失智的一個檢測方式啦那這個在70歲以上的這一個部分的話失智的一個風險是必須要做考量的那但是這個就是說我們在三個月裡面針對這個整體體格檢查項目跟還有這個部分的話我們整體美將喔諮詢一下那個專業醫學會的一個意見\n\n27\n00:10:16,866 --> 00:10:45,900\n因為今天最主要是因為你們要做一個決策我才針對高齡提供一些完整的一個建議跟你們做一個思考那我覺得現在你們這個法條很多人都以為說這個幾歲要透過立法院修法其實不是嘛這道交條例第79條第一項授權給你們交通部跟內政部來訂定相關車輛啊怎麼去弄啊駕照怎麼換那都你們內部的一個規則你們部行政院通過就可以了\n\n28\n00:10:46,660 --> 00:11:06,586\n所以這個部分在過去幾年你們怎麼樣去做我不清楚但是這個規則你們定的規則第52之1條跟52之2條尤其52之2條是針對於普通駕照我們現在在談的不是職業的普通駕照你們很明確的規定喔你現在講感知功能測驗你在這個測驗裡面要加\n\n29\n00:11:08,737 --> 00:11:22,057\n那個什麼危機危機的概念危險感知危機感知嘛那我可以不測啊如果你法條我不要啊我不要選這一項啊因為你法條的規定很清楚嘛做認知功能測驗或\n\n30\n00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:44,346\n或提供這個未達失智症終極的也就是說我看你微信你去加吧你再加100項我不做你這一項如果我意思是說你如果法條你都沒有去做調整他可以選A或者B但是我事實上真的蠻擔心的\n\n31\n00:11:46,571 --> 00:12:12,271\n現在一般的駕駛你們的一個概念就是說只要沒有中度失智症就可以但是這到底符不符合我希望你們跟專家學著在現在的消動環境你再去這是他們本身一個團體的關懷就是如果輕度會有什麼症狀包括遺忘包括了誤認包括了迷路包括了情緒轉變暴躁有意不定這個\n\n32\n00:12:14,592 --> 00:12:31,990\n這個可是現在我們不管的你即使這樣的事如果是輕度一樣可以換照只要沒有中度就可以而且如果拿到沒有中度這個證明的話也不用去做認知一個功能測試甚至你這個的部分我覺得在法條上面\n\n33\n00:12:32,791 --> 00:12:46,987\n你們自己的規定啊不用通過我們是不是完整考量部長你說一下報告委員這個部分齁您的提醒很好齁我們一定會在未來在修訂整套這個方案的時候讓它能夠完善齁就是說不要說讓大家有選擇啦選擇這個選擇那個這個在法條上面該怎麼樣防範我們會來注意\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4264\t19373\t好謝謝主席有請我們陳世凱部長請陳部長部長呼吸有沒有緩過來呼吸幾下再開始沒問題已經深呼吸三次了好我想這個直接進入是\n21175\t48949\t最近大家非常關注的問題因為其實車禍車撞車相關的一些事故在台灣整個是蠻多的那最近連續三天發生了因為包括行車紀錄器各式的影片在網路上不斷的流傳讓我們全民覺得非常非常憂心尤其是行人的部分所以簡單來說近日從5月18號到520一天一起在網路盛傳影片的\n49469\t74364\t行人 甚至有些在店面 我沒有出去走我在店面吃個早餐5月18號在花蓮市早餐店一輛車衝進去13人輕重傷 駕駛47歲5月19號在新北三峽 在國小前面32傷 那個真的是非常非常車速非常快讓大家都覺得這真的太離譜了駕駛78歲\n76966\t96923\t那昨天520搬在台南獄警很多影片新聞也出來了造成了一傷在獄警的一個老街那駕駛38歲我這樣列的這個意思啊事實上跟這個部長昨天在談的其實有些車禍他一個狀況有時候是高齡他可能是一個\n97964\t123941\t因素但有一些其實跟年齡沒有關的一些駕駛行為觀念甚至車輛因素甚至道路設計的因素啊所以看起來這三個尤其在報章媒體披露第一個有疲勞駕駛甚至獄警是不是有癲癇這個我們都還不知道有待查證但是我覺得不同的類型的這個部分有關於說不管是犯罪違法理賠的部分我覺得主要是\n125101\t142858\t檢警他們會處理那我們整個交通部門有這麼慘痛的一個經驗有沒有我們能夠做的是我們要去處理的一個問題啊但花蓮市是不是疲勞駕駛個人駕駛的一個因素是什麼520獄井獄井老街啊其實坦白講很美的地方\n143559\t160039\t那這麼多的這麼多的客人有纜車到那邊去逛街但那邊的狀況有人行道都沒有你影片很清楚其實一半人是走在車道上面那這種狀況就是說駕駛當然不對嘛不夠小心嘛可是\n160740\t182345\t我們要求別人的觀光區只能呈現這樣的一個水準或是說對行人保障這個我是覺得我們可以去做一些事情因為他很多老街他有騎樓但是騎樓是為什麼不通呢那我現在針對於中間這一項因為昨天我有聽到部長部長你昨天這個有四個方向嘛你再說一遍好不好\n183847\t209200\t報告委員我們其實有幾個方向在做改革一方面我們將年齡下修到70歲您所關心的大概是年長者的這個駕照的換照的問題第一個部分是下修年齡那第二個部分是加強測驗的項目包含他對於危險的認知的測驗還有他一般的認知的測驗並且強化他的安全教育的課程我們希望他能夠參加講習至少半天以上\n210020\t235983\t那這個部分是加強測驗的項目那另外就是說針對如果年長者你年紀已經很大了我們會鼓勵他可以繳回他的駕照不要再開車那如果是這樣的話公共運輸的補貼我們以後來提供TPAS的這個補助那另外關懷的對象我們現在就可以馬上啟動不用等整個修法我們現在針對時常有違規或者是事故的第一當事人我們就會啟動關懷那甚至是協助他怎麼樣安全駕駛\n237438\t259463\t好因為我聽到你的一個方向其實有兩項包括在駕訓取得駕照的時候更為嚴謹這是沒有年齡限制的反正大家取得駕照可能是比較年輕的那回訓有違規回訓也是沒有年齡分配的對不對對這個沒有年齡限制的問題所以你這個昨天提出來的政策是全面向的\n260043\t285053\t那我們請就5月19號因為大家最關注的幾個孩子的未來就這樣沒有了到底發生什麼事情當然駕駛人現在自己可能也在昏迷還沒有講清楚的一個情況之下如果目前初步來看如果沒有酒駕沒有獨駕然後車輛的問題不知道道路看起來有沒有什麼問題除這個之外駕駛的因素\n286213\t309012\t我覺得現在媒體披露的我覺得作為政策未來可以考量一下第一個我們目前收集到一個民眾的一個訊息他是違規的慣犯甚至像下面這張圖是停在人行道我不知道那是不是他固定了車位還是上次五年前出車禍的一個情況那像這樣的一個情況未來會不會在你回訊的這個範圍我不知道要什麼樣的車禍你才會要回訊\n314036\t333048\t那再來一次是不是高齡駕駛在前一個路口就已經迴轉倒車是不是躁逃那這還要查最後一個可不可能是任何的一個身心因素這個我說不準是不是身體發生什麼事或是心理是不是看到路就要罵人那種症狀\n334329\t351101\t那這種情況我覺得有需要調查但是這中間有很多因素我覺得有些政策是不是不需要等到發生的時候也許可以偵測到這個的部分那我現在請問你第一個目前高齡駕駛換照你們現在預計因為明年預計從75歲下修到70歲這是列管年齡的\n357705\t382114\t一個部分啦那我們看到其他的一個國家有從65歲開始當然啦也有70歲的到韓國可能對大概65歲就開始大概70那在台灣下修這個符合一般的一個標準但是第二個你要不要一併考量因為現在你還沒還要繼續考量那換照的間隔的年限就是從70歲每三年換一次\n383325\t405677\t然後80歲會有像丹麥他可能到80歲以上每一年就要去換一次因為可能身體的一個變化會更大那這個部分你們會不會去考量這個間隔的年限會不會一併考量這個我們認為這個間隔的年限要有分級以年齡來做分級那這個部分我們會細部來討論怎麼樣的年齡的分級是比較合理的我們也會跟醫學單位大家一起來做諮詢\n407284\t428749\t我也是建議你要分級一下分級一下參考一下第三個是患照的檢測的嚴謹度因為時間不夠我就直接說了以目前來看因為你們要改變目前來第一個是基本的體檢基本體檢為了幾個單位包括公立醫院包括衛生所還有部分的一個特別診所\n429469\t446874\t目前就基本啦 身高體重 量一量視力 有沒有色盲 變色力 聽力 血壓大概基本的這個SOP檢查一遍但其中有一個呢是我們法定規定的說是不是有重大疾病我就問一下衛生署 哇天啊你重大疾病你怎麼去檢測因為有一些\n449154\t477534\t又沒有拿到傷病卡的可能不見得適合駕駛他其實是沒有辦法他說我只能去看目前的部分只能去看那這個的部分能不能增加這種東西不管是身心的這個疾病我覺得你們要一併去考量第二個認知功能的一個部分測試三個的部分那我的不要再重複了但是目前的情況總分是22分22分那你只要拿到10分\n478354\t504419\t及格 OK 出去開車再開三年如果後面考試只得45分給他看十張圖只要記得三張 OK 及格那這個部分從民國106年到現在七到八年的時間這個部分我覺得你們要去思考一下尤其你現在不是要加入危險認知對不對對 危險感知測驗\n507219\t532445\t危險感知測驗但是危險感知測驗我真的一個良心的建議不要再公佈題庫了就是時中大家練了一天來這邊畫給你看其實對啦有意義啦就是你好歹這個穩穩的照抄要抄得出來我理解啦抄都抄不出來太危險了可是你危險感知一個臨時性的它的你知道嗎臨場感你不要又是題庫去練我覺得總要有一兩項\n533625\t546536\t報告我們那個有現場測試他的反應速度的那會不會有題庫啊那個不會有題庫啦真的嗎你現在全部都有題庫喔那再來齁你危險感知的一個部分啊你現在的目前檢測以桃園市113年總共\n549358\t577515\t有這個特約醫院8311人他去特約醫院檢查啦體檢啦 認知測驗就特約醫院啦他們的可能服務比較好啦那公立醫院跟衛生所這公家單位大概只有7.3%啦現況所以你現在的意思說在決定政策的時候到最終的執行者以目前來看九成都是特約醫院假設你要相關的一些設備相關的場域如果要的部分請你要把這個併入政策\n578596\t590270\t那最後一個問題部長還是市長你回答一下是不是這個認知功能測驗一定要做是不是一定要做\n591887\t615025\t跟委員報告一下認知功能其實這套認知功能基本上就是失智的一個檢測方式啦那這個在70歲以上的這一個部分的話失智的一個風險是必須要做考量的那但是這個就是說我們在三個月裡面針對這個整體體格檢查項目跟還有這個部分的話我們整體 美將喔諮詢一下那個專業醫學會的一個意見\n616866\t645900\t因為今天最主要是因為你們要做一個決策我才針對高齡提供一些完整的一個建議跟你們做一個思考那我覺得現在你們這個法條很多人都以為說這個幾歲要透過立法院修法其實不是嘛這道交條例第79條第一項授權給你們交通部跟內政部來訂定相關車輛啊怎麼去弄啊駕照怎麼換那都你們內部的一個規則你們部行政院通過就可以了\n646660\t666586\t所以這個部分在過去幾年你們怎麼樣去做我不清楚但是這個規則你們定的規則第52之1條跟52之2條尤其52之2條是針對於普通駕照我們現在在談的不是職業的普通駕照你們很明確的規定喔你現在講感知功能測驗你在這個測驗裡面要加\n668737\t682057\t那個什麼危機 危機的概念危險感知危機感知嘛那我可以不測啊 如果你法條我不要啊 我不要選這一項啊因為你法條的規定很清楚嘛做認知功能測驗或\n683940\t704346\t或提供這個未達失智症終極的也就是說我看你微信你去加吧你再加100項我不做你這一項如果我意思是說你如果法條你都沒有去做調整他可以選A或者B但是我事實上真的蠻擔心的\n706571\t732271\t現在一般的駕駛你們的一個概念就是說只要沒有中度失智症就可以但是這到底符不符合我希望你們跟專家學著在現在的消動環境你再去這是他們本身一個團體的關懷就是如果輕度會有什麼症狀包括遺忘包括了誤認包括了迷路包括了情緒轉變暴躁有意不定這個\n734592\t751990\t這個可是現在我們不管的你即使這樣的事如果是輕度一樣可以換照只要沒有中度就可以而且如果拿到沒有中度這個證明的話也不用去做認知一個功能測試甚至你這個的部分我覺得在法條上面\n752791\t766987\t你們自己的規定啊 不用通過我們是不是完整考量 部長你說一下報告委員 這個部分齁您的提醒很好齁我們一定會在未來在修訂整套這個方案的時候讓它能夠完善齁 就是說不要說讓大家有選擇啦選擇這個選擇那個這個在法條上面該怎麼樣防範我們會來注意\n","txt":"好謝謝主席有請我們陳世凱部長請陳部長部長呼吸有沒有緩過來呼吸幾下再開始沒問題已經深呼吸三次了好我想這個直接進入是\n最近大家非常關注的問題因為其實車禍車撞車相關的一些事故在台灣整個是蠻多的那最近連續三天發生了因為包括行車紀錄器各式的影片在網路上不斷的流傳讓我們全民覺得非常非常憂心尤其是行人的部分所以簡單來說近日從5月18號到520一天一起在網路盛傳影片的\n行人 甚至有些在店面 我沒有出去走我在店面吃個早餐5月18號在花蓮市早餐店一輛車衝進去13人輕重傷 駕駛47歲5月19號在新北三峽 在國小前面32傷 那個真的是非常非常車速非常快讓大家都覺得這真的太離譜了駕駛78歲\n那昨天520搬在台南獄警很多影片新聞也出來了造成了一傷在獄警的一個老街那駕駛38歲我這樣列的這個意思啊事實上跟這個部長昨天在談的其實有些車禍他一個狀況有時候是高齡他可能是一個\n因素但有一些其實跟年齡沒有關的一些駕駛行為觀念甚至車輛因素甚至道路設計的因素啊所以看起來這三個尤其在報章媒體披露第一個有疲勞駕駛甚至獄警是不是有癲癇這個我們都還不知道有待查證但是我覺得不同的類型的這個部分有關於說不管是犯罪違法理賠的部分我覺得主要是\n檢警他們會處理那我們整個交通部門有這麼慘痛的一個經驗有沒有我們能夠做的是我們要去處理的一個問題啊但花蓮市是不是疲勞駕駛個人駕駛的一個因素是什麼520獄井獄井老街啊其實坦白講很美的地方\n那這麼多的這麼多的客人有纜車到那邊去逛街但那邊的狀況有人行道都沒有你影片很清楚其實一半人是走在車道上面那這種狀況就是說駕駛當然不對嘛不夠小心嘛可是\n我們要求別人的觀光區只能呈現這樣的一個水準或是說對行人保障這個我是覺得我們可以去做一些事情因為他很多老街他有騎樓但是騎樓是為什麼不通呢那我現在針對於中間這一項因為昨天我有聽到部長部長你昨天這個有四個方向嘛你再說一遍好不好\n報告委員我們其實有幾個方向在做改革一方面我們將年齡下修到70歲您所關心的大概是年長者的這個駕照的換照的問題第一個部分是下修年齡那第二個部分是加強測驗的項目包含他對於危險的認知的測驗還有他一般的認知的測驗並且強化他的安全教育的課程我們希望他能夠參加講習至少半天以上\n那這個部分是加強測驗的項目那另外就是說針對如果年長者你年紀已經很大了我們會鼓勵他可以繳回他的駕照不要再開車那如果是這樣的話公共運輸的補貼我們以後來提供TPAS的這個補助那另外關懷的對象我們現在就可以馬上啟動不用等整個修法我們現在針對時常有違規或者是事故的第一當事人我們就會啟動關懷那甚至是協助他怎麼樣安全駕駛\n好因為我聽到你的一個方向其實有兩項包括在駕訓取得駕照的時候更為嚴謹這是沒有年齡限制的反正大家取得駕照可能是比較年輕的那回訓有違規回訓也是沒有年齡分配的對不對對這個沒有年齡限制的問題所以你這個昨天提出來的政策是全面向的\n那我們請就5月19號因為大家最關注的幾個孩子的未來就這樣沒有了到底發生什麼事情當然駕駛人現在自己可能也在昏迷還沒有講清楚的一個情況之下如果目前初步來看如果沒有酒駕沒有獨駕然後車輛的問題不知道道路看起來有沒有什麼問題除這個之外駕駛的因素\n我覺得現在媒體披露的我覺得作為政策未來可以考量一下第一個我們目前收集到一個民眾的一個訊息他是違規的慣犯甚至像下面這張圖是停在人行道我不知道那是不是他固定了車位還是上次五年前出車禍的一個情況那像這樣的一個情況未來會不會在你回訊的這個範圍我不知道要什麼樣的車禍你才會要回訊\n那再來一次是不是高齡駕駛在前一個路口就已經迴轉倒車是不是躁逃那這還要查最後一個可不可能是任何的一個身心因素這個我說不準是不是身體發生什麼事或是心理是不是看到路就要罵人那種症狀\n那這種情況我覺得有需要調查但是這中間有很多因素我覺得有些政策是不是不需要等到發生的時候也許可以偵測到這個的部分那我現在請問你第一個目前高齡駕駛換照你們現在預計因為明年預計從75歲下修到70歲這是列管年齡的\n一個部分啦那我們看到其他的一個國家有從65歲開始當然啦也有70歲的到韓國可能對大概65歲就開始大概70那在台灣下修這個符合一般的一個標準但是第二個你要不要一併考量因為現在你還沒還要繼續考量那換照的間隔的年限就是從70歲每三年換一次\n然後80歲會有像丹麥他可能到80歲以上每一年就要去換一次因為可能身體的一個變化會更大那這個部分你們會不會去考量這個間隔的年限會不會一併考量這個我們認為這個間隔的年限要有分級以年齡來做分級那這個部分我們會細部來討論怎麼樣的年齡的分級是比較合理的我們也會跟醫學單位大家一起來做諮詢\n我也是建議你要分級一下分級一下參考一下第三個是患照的檢測的嚴謹度因為時間不夠我就直接說了以目前來看因為你們要改變目前來第一個是基本的體檢基本體檢為了幾個單位包括公立醫院包括衛生所還有部分的一個特別診所\n目前就基本啦 身高體重 量一量視力 有沒有色盲 變色力 聽力 血壓大概基本的這個SOP檢查一遍但其中有一個呢是我們法定規定的說是不是有重大疾病我就問一下衛生署 哇天啊你重大疾病你怎麼去檢測因為有一些\n又沒有拿到傷病卡的可能不見得適合駕駛他其實是沒有辦法他說我只能去看目前的部分只能去看那這個的部分能不能增加這種東西不管是身心的這個疾病我覺得你們要一併去考量第二個認知功能的一個部分測試三個的部分那我的不要再重複了但是目前的情況總分是22分22分那你只要拿到10分\n及格 OK 出去開車再開三年如果後面考試只得45分給他看十張圖只要記得三張 OK 及格那這個部分從民國106年到現在七到八年的時間這個部分我覺得你們要去思考一下尤其你現在不是要加入危險認知對不對對 危險感知測驗\n危險感知測驗但是危險感知測驗我真的一個良心的建議不要再公佈題庫了就是時中大家練了一天來這邊畫給你看其實對啦有意義啦就是你好歹這個穩穩的照抄要抄得出來我理解啦抄都抄不出來太危險了可是你危險感知一個臨時性的它的你知道嗎臨場感你不要又是題庫去練我覺得總要有一兩項\n報告我們那個有現場測試他的反應速度的那會不會有題庫啊那個不會有題庫啦真的嗎你現在全部都有題庫喔那再來齁你危險感知的一個部分啊你現在的目前檢測以桃園市113年總共\n有這個特約醫院8311人他去特約醫院檢查啦體檢啦 認知測驗就特約醫院啦他們的可能服務比較好啦那公立醫院跟衛生所這公家單位大概只有7.3%啦現況所以你現在的意思說在決定政策的時候到最終的執行者以目前來看九成都是特約醫院假設你要相關的一些設備相關的場域如果要的部分請你要把這個併入政策\n那最後一個問題部長還是市長你回答一下是不是這個認知功能測驗一定要做是不是一定要做\n跟委員報告一下認知功能其實這套認知功能基本上就是失智的一個檢測方式啦那這個在70歲以上的這一個部分的話失智的一個風險是必須要做考量的那但是這個就是說我們在三個月裡面針對這個整體體格檢查項目跟還有這個部分的話我們整體 美將喔諮詢一下那個專業醫學會的一個意見\n因為今天最主要是因為你們要做一個決策我才針對高齡提供一些完整的一個建議跟你們做一個思考那我覺得現在你們這個法條很多人都以為說這個幾歲要透過立法院修法其實不是嘛這道交條例第79條第一項授權給你們交通部跟內政部來訂定相關車輛啊怎麼去弄啊駕照怎麼換那都你們內部的一個規則你們部行政院通過就可以了\n所以這個部分在過去幾年你們怎麼樣去做我不清楚但是這個規則你們定的規則第52之1條跟52之2條尤其52之2條是針對於普通駕照我們現在在談的不是職業的普通駕照你們很明確的規定喔你現在講感知功能測驗你在這個測驗裡面要加\n那個什麼危機 危機的概念危險感知危機感知嘛那我可以不測啊 如果你法條我不要啊 我不要選這一項啊因為你法條的規定很清楚嘛做認知功能測驗或\n或提供這個未達失智症終極的也就是說我看你微信你去加吧你再加100項我不做你這一項如果我意思是說你如果法條你都沒有去做調整他可以選A或者B但是我事實上真的蠻擔心的\n現在一般的駕駛你們的一個概念就是說只要沒有中度失智症就可以但是這到底符不符合我希望你們跟專家學著在現在的消動環境你再去這是他們本身一個團體的關懷就是如果輕度會有什麼症狀包括遺忘包括了誤認包括了迷路包括了情緒轉變暴躁有意不定這個\n這個可是現在我們不管的你即使這樣的事如果是輕度一樣可以換照只要沒有中度就可以而且如果拿到沒有中度這個證明的話也不用去做認知一個功能測試甚至你這個的部分我覺得在法條上面\n你們自己的規定啊 不用通過我們是不是完整考量 部長你說一下報告委員 這個部分齁您的提醒很好齁我們一定會在未來在修訂整套這個方案的時候讓它能夠完善齁 就是說不要說讓大家有選擇啦選擇這個選擇那個這個在法條上面該怎麼樣防範我們會來注意\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.264 --> 00:19.373\n好謝謝主席有請我們陳世凱部長請陳部長部長呼吸有沒有緩過來呼吸幾下再開始沒問題已經深呼吸三次了好我想這個直接進入是\n\n00:21.175 --> 00:48.949\n最近大家非常關注的問題因為其實車禍車撞車相關的一些事故在台灣整個是蠻多的那最近連續三天發生了因為包括行車紀錄器各式的影片在網路上不斷的流傳讓我們全民覺得非常非常憂心尤其是行人的部分所以簡單來說近日從5月18號到520一天一起在網路盛傳影片的\n\n00:49.469 --> 01:14.364\n行人甚至有些在店面我沒有出去走我在店面吃個早餐5月18號在花蓮市早餐店一輛車衝進去13人輕重傷駕駛47歲5月19號在新北三峽在國小前面32傷那個真的是非常非常車速非常快讓大家都覺得這真的太離譜了駕駛78歲\n\n01:16.966 --> 01:36.923\n那昨天520搬在台南獄警很多影片新聞也出來了造成了一傷在獄警的一個老街那駕駛38歲我這樣列的這個意思啊事實上跟這個部長昨天在談的其實有些車禍他一個狀況有時候是高齡他可能是一個\n\n01:37.964 --> 02:03.941\n因素但有一些其實跟年齡沒有關的一些駕駛行為觀念甚至車輛因素甚至道路設計的因素啊所以看起來這三個尤其在報章媒體披露第一個有疲勞駕駛甚至獄警是不是有癲癇這個我們都還不知道有待查證但是我覺得不同的類型的這個部分有關於說不管是犯罪違法理賠的部分我覺得主要是\n\n02:05.101 --> 02:22.858\n檢警他們會處理那我們整個交通部門有這麼慘痛的一個經驗有沒有我們能夠做的是我們要去處理的一個問題啊但花蓮市是不是疲勞駕駛個人駕駛的一個因素是什麼520獄井獄井老街啊其實坦白講很美的地方\n\n02:23.559 --> 02:40.039\n那這麼多的這麼多的客人有纜車到那邊去逛街但那邊的狀況有人行道都沒有你影片很清楚其實一半人是走在車道上面那這種狀況就是說駕駛當然不對嘛不夠小心嘛可是\n\n02:40.740 --> 03:02.345\n我們要求別人的觀光區只能呈現這樣的一個水準或是說對行人保障這個我是覺得我們可以去做一些事情因為他很多老街他有騎樓但是騎樓是為什麼不通呢那我現在針對於中間這一項因為昨天我有聽到部長部長你昨天這個有四個方向嘛你再說一遍好不好\n\n03:03.847 --> 03:29.200\n報告委員我們其實有幾個方向在做改革一方面我們將年齡下修到70歲您所關心的大概是年長者的這個駕照的換照的問題第一個部分是下修年齡那第二個部分是加強測驗的項目包含他對於危險的認知的測驗還有他一般的認知的測驗並且強化他的安全教育的課程我們希望他能夠參加講習至少半天以上\n\n03:30.020 --> 03:55.983\n那這個部分是加強測驗的項目那另外就是說針對如果年長者你年紀已經很大了我們會鼓勵他可以繳回他的駕照不要再開車那如果是這樣的話公共運輸的補貼我們以後來提供TPAS的這個補助那另外關懷的對象我們現在就可以馬上啟動不用等整個修法我們現在針對時常有違規或者是事故的第一當事人我們就會啟動關懷那甚至是協助他怎麼樣安全駕駛\n\n03:57.438 --> 04:19.463\n好因為我聽到你的一個方向其實有兩項包括在駕訓取得駕照的時候更為嚴謹這是沒有年齡限制的反正大家取得駕照可能是比較年輕的那回訓有違規回訓也是沒有年齡分配的對不對對這個沒有年齡限制的問題所以你這個昨天提出來的政策是全面向的\n\n04:20.043 --> 04:45.053\n那我們請就5月19號因為大家最關注的幾個孩子的未來就這樣沒有了到底發生什麼事情當然駕駛人現在自己可能也在昏迷還沒有講清楚的一個情況之下如果目前初步來看如果沒有酒駕沒有獨駕然後車輛的問題不知道道路看起來有沒有什麼問題除這個之外駕駛的因素\n\n04:46.213 --> 05:09.012\n我覺得現在媒體披露的我覺得作為政策未來可以考量一下第一個我們目前收集到一個民眾的一個訊息他是違規的慣犯甚至像下面這張圖是停在人行道我不知道那是不是他固定了車位還是上次五年前出車禍的一個情況那像這樣的一個情況未來會不會在你回訊的這個範圍我不知道要什麼樣的車禍你才會要回訊\n\n05:14.036 --> 05:33.048\n那再來一次是不是高齡駕駛在前一個路口就已經迴轉倒車是不是躁逃那這還要查最後一個可不可能是任何的一個身心因素這個我說不準是不是身體發生什麼事或是心理是不是看到路就要罵人那種症狀\n\n05:34.329 --> 05:51.101\n那這種情況我覺得有需要調查但是這中間有很多因素我覺得有些政策是不是不需要等到發生的時候也許可以偵測到這個的部分那我現在請問你第一個目前高齡駕駛換照你們現在預計因為明年預計從75歲下修到70歲這是列管年齡的\n\n05:57.705 --> 06:22.114\n一個部分啦那我們看到其他的一個國家有從65歲開始當然啦也有70歲的到韓國可能對大概65歲就開始大概70那在台灣下修這個符合一般的一個標準但是第二個你要不要一併考量因為現在你還沒還要繼續考量那換照的間隔的年限就是從70歲每三年換一次\n\n06:23.325 --> 06:45.677\n然後80歲會有像丹麥他可能到80歲以上每一年就要去換一次因為可能身體的一個變化會更大那這個部分你們會不會去考量這個間隔的年限會不會一併考量這個我們認為這個間隔的年限要有分級以年齡來做分級那這個部分我們會細部來討論怎麼樣的年齡的分級是比較合理的我們也會跟醫學單位大家一起來做諮詢\n\n06:47.284 --> 07:08.749\n我也是建議你要分級一下分級一下參考一下第三個是患照的檢測的嚴謹度因為時間不夠我就直接說了以目前來看因為你們要改變目前來第一個是基本的體檢基本體檢為了幾個單位包括公立醫院包括衛生所還有部分的一個特別診所\n\n07:09.469 --> 07:26.874\n目前就基本啦身高體重量一量視力有沒有色盲變色力聽力血壓大概基本的這個SOP檢查一遍但其中有一個呢是我們法定規定的說是不是有重大疾病我就問一下衛生署哇天啊你重大疾病你怎麼去檢測因為有一些\n\n07:29.154 --> 07:57.534\n又沒有拿到傷病卡的可能不見得適合駕駛他其實是沒有辦法他說我只能去看目前的部分只能去看那這個的部分能不能增加這種東西不管是身心的這個疾病我覺得你們要一併去考量第二個認知功能的一個部分測試三個的部分那我的不要再重複了但是目前的情況總分是22分22分那你只要拿到10分\n\n07:58.354 --> 08:24.419\n及格OK出去開車再開三年如果後面考試只得45分給他看十張圖只要記得三張OK及格那這個部分從民國106年到現在七到八年的時間這個部分我覺得你們要去思考一下尤其你現在不是要加入危險認知對不對對危險感知測驗\n\n08:27.219 --> 08:52.445\n危險感知測驗但是危險感知測驗我真的一個良心的建議不要再公佈題庫了就是時中大家練了一天來這邊畫給你看其實對啦有意義啦就是你好歹這個穩穩的照抄要抄得出來我理解啦抄都抄不出來太危險了可是你危險感知一個臨時性的它的你知道嗎臨場感你不要又是題庫去練我覺得總要有一兩項\n\n08:53.625 --> 09:06.536\n報告我們那個有現場測試他的反應速度的那會不會有題庫啊那個不會有題庫啦真的嗎你現在全部都有題庫喔那再來齁你危險感知的一個部分啊你現在的目前檢測以桃園市113年總共\n\n09:09.358 --> 09:37.515\n有這個特約醫院8311人他去特約醫院檢查啦體檢啦認知測驗就特約醫院啦他們的可能服務比較好啦那公立醫院跟衛生所這公家單位大概只有7.3%啦現況所以你現在的意思說在決定政策的時候到最終的執行者以目前來看九成都是特約醫院假設你要相關的一些設備相關的場域如果要的部分請你要把這個併入政策\n\n09:38.596 --> 09:50.270\n那最後一個問題部長還是市長你回答一下是不是這個認知功能測驗一定要做是不是一定要做\n\n09:51.887 --> 10:15.025\n跟委員報告一下認知功能其實這套認知功能基本上就是失智的一個檢測方式啦那這個在70歲以上的這一個部分的話失智的一個風險是必須要做考量的那但是這個就是說我們在三個月裡面針對這個整體體格檢查項目跟還有這個部分的話我們整體美將喔諮詢一下那個專業醫學會的一個意見\n\n10:16.866 --> 10:45.900\n因為今天最主要是因為你們要做一個決策我才針對高齡提供一些完整的一個建議跟你們做一個思考那我覺得現在你們這個法條很多人都以為說這個幾歲要透過立法院修法其實不是嘛這道交條例第79條第一項授權給你們交通部跟內政部來訂定相關車輛啊怎麼去弄啊駕照怎麼換那都你們內部的一個規則你們部行政院通過就可以了\n\n10:46.660 --> 11:06.586\n所以這個部分在過去幾年你們怎麼樣去做我不清楚但是這個規則你們定的規則第52之1條跟52之2條尤其52之2條是針對於普通駕照我們現在在談的不是職業的普通駕照你們很明確的規定喔你現在講感知功能測驗你在這個測驗裡面要加\n\n11:08.737 --> 11:22.057\n那個什麼危機危機的概念危險感知危機感知嘛那我可以不測啊如果你法條我不要啊我不要選這一項啊因為你法條的規定很清楚嘛做認知功能測驗或\n\n11:23.940 --> 11:44.346\n或提供這個未達失智症終極的也就是說我看你微信你去加吧你再加100項我不做你這一項如果我意思是說你如果法條你都沒有去做調整他可以選A或者B但是我事實上真的蠻擔心的\n\n11:46.571 --> 12:12.271\n現在一般的駕駛你們的一個概念就是說只要沒有中度失智症就可以但是這到底符不符合我希望你們跟專家學著在現在的消動環境你再去這是他們本身一個團體的關懷就是如果輕度會有什麼症狀包括遺忘包括了誤認包括了迷路包括了情緒轉變暴躁有意不定這個\n\n12:14.592 --> 12:31.990\n這個可是現在我們不管的你即使這樣的事如果是輕度一樣可以換照只要沒有中度就可以而且如果拿到沒有中度這個證明的話也不用去做認知一個功能測試甚至你這個的部分我覺得在法條上面\n\n12:32.791 --> 12:46.987\n你們自己的規定啊不用通過我們是不是完整考量部長你說一下報告委員這個部分齁您的提醒很好齁我們一定會在未來在修訂整套這個方案的時候讓它能夠完善齁就是說不要說讓大家有選擇啦選擇這個選擇那個這個在法條上面該怎麼樣防範我們會來注意\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.264,"end":19.373,"text":"好謝謝主席有請我們陳世凱部長請陳部長部長呼吸有沒有緩過來呼吸幾下再開始沒問題已經深呼吸三次了好我想這個直接進入是"},{"start":21.175,"end":48.949,"text":"最近大家非常關注的問題因為其實車禍車撞車相關的一些事故在台灣整個是蠻多的那最近連續三天發生了因為包括行車紀錄器各式的影片在網路上不斷的流傳讓我們全民覺得非常非常憂心尤其是行人的部分所以簡單來說近日從5月18號到520一天一起在網路盛傳影片的"},{"start":49.469,"end":74.364,"text":"行人 甚至有些在店面 我沒有出去走我在店面吃個早餐5月18號在花蓮市早餐店一輛車衝進去13人輕重傷 駕駛47歲5月19號在新北三峽 在國小前面32傷 那個真的是非常非常車速非常快讓大家都覺得這真的太離譜了駕駛78歲"},{"start":76.966,"end":96.923,"text":"那昨天520搬在台南獄警很多影片新聞也出來了造成了一傷在獄警的一個老街那駕駛38歲我這樣列的這個意思啊事實上跟這個部長昨天在談的其實有些車禍他一個狀況有時候是高齡他可能是一個"},{"start":97.964,"end":123.941,"text":"因素但有一些其實跟年齡沒有關的一些駕駛行為觀念甚至車輛因素甚至道路設計的因素啊所以看起來這三個尤其在報章媒體披露第一個有疲勞駕駛甚至獄警是不是有癲癇這個我們都還不知道有待查證但是我覺得不同的類型的這個部分有關於說不管是犯罪違法理賠的部分我覺得主要是"},{"start":125.101,"end":142.858,"text":"檢警他們會處理那我們整個交通部門有這麼慘痛的一個經驗有沒有我們能夠做的是我們要去處理的一個問題啊但花蓮市是不是疲勞駕駛個人駕駛的一個因素是什麼520獄井獄井老街啊其實坦白講很美的地方"},{"start":143.559,"end":160.039,"text":"那這麼多的這麼多的客人有纜車到那邊去逛街但那邊的狀況有人行道都沒有你影片很清楚其實一半人是走在車道上面那這種狀況就是說駕駛當然不對嘛不夠小心嘛可是"},{"start":160.74,"end":182.345,"text":"我們要求別人的觀光區只能呈現這樣的一個水準或是說對行人保障這個我是覺得我們可以去做一些事情因為他很多老街他有騎樓但是騎樓是為什麼不通呢那我現在針對於中間這一項因為昨天我有聽到部長部長你昨天這個有四個方向嘛你再說一遍好不好"},{"start":183.847,"end":209.2,"text":"報告委員我們其實有幾個方向在做改革一方面我們將年齡下修到70歲您所關心的大概是年長者的這個駕照的換照的問題第一個部分是下修年齡那第二個部分是加強測驗的項目包含他對於危險的認知的測驗還有他一般的認知的測驗並且強化他的安全教育的課程我們希望他能夠參加講習至少半天以上"},{"start":210.02,"end":235.983,"text":"那這個部分是加強測驗的項目那另外就是說針對如果年長者你年紀已經很大了我們會鼓勵他可以繳回他的駕照不要再開車那如果是這樣的話公共運輸的補貼我們以後來提供TPAS的這個補助那另外關懷的對象我們現在就可以馬上啟動不用等整個修法我們現在針對時常有違規或者是事故的第一當事人我們就會啟動關懷那甚至是協助他怎麼樣安全駕駛"},{"start":237.438,"end":259.463,"text":"好因為我聽到你的一個方向其實有兩項包括在駕訓取得駕照的時候更為嚴謹這是沒有年齡限制的反正大家取得駕照可能是比較年輕的那回訓有違規回訓也是沒有年齡分配的對不對對這個沒有年齡限制的問題所以你這個昨天提出來的政策是全面向的"},{"start":260.043,"end":285.053,"text":"那我們請就5月19號因為大家最關注的幾個孩子的未來就這樣沒有了到底發生什麼事情當然駕駛人現在自己可能也在昏迷還沒有講清楚的一個情況之下如果目前初步來看如果沒有酒駕沒有獨駕然後車輛的問題不知道道路看起來有沒有什麼問題除這個之外駕駛的因素"},{"start":286.213,"end":309.012,"text":"我覺得現在媒體披露的我覺得作為政策未來可以考量一下第一個我們目前收集到一個民眾的一個訊息他是違規的慣犯甚至像下面這張圖是停在人行道我不知道那是不是他固定了車位還是上次五年前出車禍的一個情況那像這樣的一個情況未來會不會在你回訊的這個範圍我不知道要什麼樣的車禍你才會要回訊"},{"start":314.036,"end":333.048,"text":"那再來一次是不是高齡駕駛在前一個路口就已經迴轉倒車是不是躁逃那這還要查最後一個可不可能是任何的一個身心因素這個我說不準是不是身體發生什麼事或是心理是不是看到路就要罵人那種症狀"},{"start":334.329,"end":351.101,"text":"那這種情況我覺得有需要調查但是這中間有很多因素我覺得有些政策是不是不需要等到發生的時候也許可以偵測到這個的部分那我現在請問你第一個目前高齡駕駛換照你們現在預計因為明年預計從75歲下修到70歲這是列管年齡的"},{"start":357.705,"end":382.114,"text":"一個部分啦那我們看到其他的一個國家有從65歲開始當然啦也有70歲的到韓國可能對大概65歲就開始大概70那在台灣下修這個符合一般的一個標準但是第二個你要不要一併考量因為現在你還沒還要繼續考量那換照的間隔的年限就是從70歲每三年換一次"},{"start":383.325,"end":405.677,"text":"然後80歲會有像丹麥他可能到80歲以上每一年就要去換一次因為可能身體的一個變化會更大那這個部分你們會不會去考量這個間隔的年限會不會一併考量這個我們認為這個間隔的年限要有分級以年齡來做分級那這個部分我們會細部來討論怎麼樣的年齡的分級是比較合理的我們也會跟醫學單位大家一起來做諮詢"},{"start":407.284,"end":428.749,"text":"我也是建議你要分級一下分級一下參考一下第三個是患照的檢測的嚴謹度因為時間不夠我就直接說了以目前來看因為你們要改變目前來第一個是基本的體檢基本體檢為了幾個單位包括公立醫院包括衛生所還有部分的一個特別診所"},{"start":429.469,"end":446.874,"text":"目前就基本啦 身高體重 量一量視力 有沒有色盲 變色力 聽力 血壓大概基本的這個SOP檢查一遍但其中有一個呢是我們法定規定的說是不是有重大疾病我就問一下衛生署 哇天啊你重大疾病你怎麼去檢測因為有一些"},{"start":449.154,"end":477.534,"text":"又沒有拿到傷病卡的可能不見得適合駕駛他其實是沒有辦法他說我只能去看目前的部分只能去看那這個的部分能不能增加這種東西不管是身心的這個疾病我覺得你們要一併去考量第二個認知功能的一個部分測試三個的部分那我的不要再重複了但是目前的情況總分是22分22分那你只要拿到10分"},{"start":478.354,"end":504.419,"text":"及格 OK 出去開車再開三年如果後面考試只得45分給他看十張圖只要記得三張 OK 及格那這個部分從民國106年到現在七到八年的時間這個部分我覺得你們要去思考一下尤其你現在不是要加入危險認知對不對對 危險感知測驗"},{"start":507.219,"end":532.445,"text":"危險感知測驗但是危險感知測驗我真的一個良心的建議不要再公佈題庫了就是時中大家練了一天來這邊畫給你看其實對啦有意義啦就是你好歹這個穩穩的照抄要抄得出來我理解啦抄都抄不出來太危險了可是你危險感知一個臨時性的它的你知道嗎臨場感你不要又是題庫去練我覺得總要有一兩項"},{"start":533.625,"end":546.536,"text":"報告我們那個有現場測試他的反應速度的那會不會有題庫啊那個不會有題庫啦真的嗎你現在全部都有題庫喔那再來齁你危險感知的一個部分啊你現在的目前檢測以桃園市113年總共"},{"start":549.358,"end":577.515,"text":"有這個特約醫院8311人他去特約醫院檢查啦體檢啦 認知測驗就特約醫院啦他們的可能服務比較好啦那公立醫院跟衛生所這公家單位大概只有7.3%啦現況所以你現在的意思說在決定政策的時候到最終的執行者以目前來看九成都是特約醫院假設你要相關的一些設備相關的場域如果要的部分請你要把這個併入政策"},{"start":578.596,"end":590.27,"text":"那最後一個問題部長還是市長你回答一下是不是這個認知功能測驗一定要做是不是一定要做"},{"start":591.887,"end":615.025,"text":"跟委員報告一下認知功能其實這套認知功能基本上就是失智的一個檢測方式啦那這個在70歲以上的這一個部分的話失智的一個風險是必須要做考量的那但是這個就是說我們在三個月裡面針對這個整體體格檢查項目跟還有這個部分的話我們整體 美將喔諮詢一下那個專業醫學會的一個意見"},{"start":616.866,"end":645.9,"text":"因為今天最主要是因為你們要做一個決策我才針對高齡提供一些完整的一個建議跟你們做一個思考那我覺得現在你們這個法條很多人都以為說這個幾歲要透過立法院修法其實不是嘛這道交條例第79條第一項授權給你們交通部跟內政部來訂定相關車輛啊怎麼去弄啊駕照怎麼換那都你們內部的一個規則你們部行政院通過就可以了"},{"start":646.66,"end":666.586,"text":"所以這個部分在過去幾年你們怎麼樣去做我不清楚但是這個規則你們定的規則第52之1條跟52之2條尤其52之2條是針對於普通駕照我們現在在談的不是職業的普通駕照你們很明確的規定喔你現在講感知功能測驗你在這個測驗裡面要加"},{"start":668.737,"end":682.057,"text":"那個什麼危機 危機的概念危險感知危機感知嘛那我可以不測啊 如果你法條我不要啊 我不要選這一項啊因為你法條的規定很清楚嘛做認知功能測驗或"},{"start":683.94,"end":704.346,"text":"或提供這個未達失智症終極的也就是說我看你微信你去加吧你再加100項我不做你這一項如果我意思是說你如果法條你都沒有去做調整他可以選A或者B但是我事實上真的蠻擔心的"},{"start":706.571,"end":732.271,"text":"現在一般的駕駛你們的一個概念就是說只要沒有中度失智症就可以但是這到底符不符合我希望你們跟專家學著在現在的消動環境你再去這是他們本身一個團體的關懷就是如果輕度會有什麼症狀包括遺忘包括了誤認包括了迷路包括了情緒轉變暴躁有意不定這個"},{"start":734.592,"end":751.99,"text":"這個可是現在我們不管的你即使這樣的事如果是輕度一樣可以換照只要沒有中度就可以而且如果拿到沒有中度這個證明的話也不用去做認知一個功能測試甚至你這個的部分我覺得在法條上面"},{"start":752.791,"end":766.987,"text":"你們自己的規定啊 不用通過我們是不是完整考量 部長你說一下報告委員 這個部分齁您的提醒很好齁我們一定會在未來在修訂整套這個方案的時候讓它能夠完善齁 就是說不要說讓大家有選擇啦選擇這個選擇那個這個在法條上面該怎麼樣防範我們會來注意"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1276,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（10時21分）謝謝主席，有請我們陳世凱部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["魯委員明哲：部長，呼吸有沒有緩過來？呼吸幾下再開始。"],["陳部長世凱：沒問題，已經深呼吸3次了。"],["魯委員明哲：我想直接進入最近大家非常關注的問題，因為其實車禍、車撞車相關一些事故，在整個臺灣是滿多的，最近連續3天發生了包括行車紀錄器、各式的影片在網路上不斷地流傳，讓我們全民覺得非常非常憂心，尤其是行人的部分。所以我簡單來說，近日從5月18號到520，一天一起，在網路盛傳的影片包括行人，甚至有一些在店面，我沒有出去走，我在店面吃個早餐，5月18號在花蓮市的早餐店，一輛車衝進去，13人輕重傷，駕駛47歲；5月19號在新北三峽，在國小前面3死12傷，哇！那個車速真的是非常快，讓大家都覺得這真的太離譜了，駕駛78歲；昨天520發生在臺南玉井，很多影片、新聞也出來了，造成了1死1傷，在玉井的老街，駕駛38歲。","我這樣列的意思，事實上跟部長昨天在談的，其實有一些車禍的狀況，有時候高齡可能是一個因素，但有一些其實跟年齡沒有關的，一些駕駛的行為、觀念，甚至車輛因素，甚至道路設計的因素，所以看起來這3個，尤其在報章媒體披露後，第一個，有疲勞駕駛，甚至玉井的是不是有癲癇，這個我們都還不知道，有待查證，但是我覺得不同類型的這個部分，有關於不管是犯罪違法、理賠的部分，我覺得主要是檢警他們會處理，而我們的交通部門針對這麼慘痛的經驗，有沒有我們能夠做的，是我們要去處理的問題？花蓮市的案例是不是疲勞駕駛，個人駕駛的因素是什麼？","520的玉井，玉井老街坦白講是很美的地方，這麼多的客人、遊覽車到那邊去逛街，但那邊的狀況是連人行道都沒有，影片很清楚，其實一半人是走在車道上面，這種狀況就是說，駕駛當然不對、不夠小心，可是我們要求一個觀光區只能呈現這樣的水準，或是說對於行人的保障，我是覺得我們可以去做一些事情，因為很多老街有騎樓，但是騎樓為什麼不通呢？我現在針對於中間這一項，因為昨天我有聽到部長昨天有講4個方向，你再說一遍好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們其實有幾個方向在做改革，一方面，我們將年齡下修到70歲，您所關心的大概是年長者駕照的換照問題，第一個部分是下修年齡。第二個部分是加強測驗的項目，包含他對於危險的認知測驗，還有一般的認知測驗，並且強化他的安全教育的課程，我們希望他能夠參加講習至少半天以上，這個部分是加強測驗的項目。另外是針對年長者，如果年長者的年紀已經很大了，我們會鼓勵他可以繳回駕照，不要再開車。如果是這樣的話，對於公共運輸的補貼，我們也會提供TPASS的補助。另外，關懷的對象我們現在就可以馬上啟動，不用等修法，現在針對時常違規或事故的第一當事人就會啟動關懷，甚至是協助他怎麼安全駕駛。"],["魯委員明哲：好，因為我聽到你的方向其實有兩項，包括在取得駕照的時候要更為嚴謹，這是沒有年齡限制的，反正大家取得駕照，可能有比較年輕的……"],["陳部長世凱：對，這是對整體駕照的改革。報告委員……"],["魯委員明哲：有違規回訓也是沒有年齡之分的，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：這個沒有年齡限制的問題。"],["魯委員明哲：所以你昨天提出來的政策是全面向的。我們就5月19號大家最關注的，幾個孩子的未來就這樣沒有了，到底發生了什麼事情？當然，駕駛人現在自己可能也昏迷，在還沒有辦法講清楚的狀況之下，就目前初步來看，如果沒有酒駕、沒有毒駕，然後車輛的問題不知道，道路看起來有沒有什麼問題？除了這個之外，駕駛的因素，我覺得現在媒體披露的部分，作為政策，未來可以考量一下。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["魯委員明哲：第一個，我們目前蒐集到民眾的訊息是，他是違規的慣犯，甚至像下面的這張圖，他會停在人行道，我不知道那是不是他固定的車位，還是上次5年前出車禍的情況？像這樣的情況，未來會不會在你回訓的範圍？我不知道要什麼樣的車禍才要回訓。再來，他是不是高齡駕駛？他在前一個路口就已經迴轉倒車，這是不是肇逃還要查。最後一個，可不可能是任何一個身心因素？這個我說不準，是不是他發生了什麼事，或是心裡是不是有看到路就要罵人的那種症狀，這種情況我覺得也需要調查，但是這中間有很多因素，我覺得有些政策是不是不需等到發生的時候，也許可以偵測到這個部分。","我現在請問你，第一個，目前高齡駕駛換照，你們現在預計，因為是明年所以現在預計從75歲下修到70歲，這是列管年齡的部分。我們看到其他的國家，有從65歲開始，當然也有70歲的，像韓國可能65歲就開始……大概70，在臺灣下修符合一般的標準。但是第二個，你要不要一併考量？因為你現在還沒有……還要繼續考量，換照間隔的年限就是從70歲起每3年換一次，然後是80歲，像丹麥可能到80歲以上每一年就要去換一次，因為可能身體的變化會更大，這部分你們會不會去考量？間隔的年限你們會不會一併考量？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們認為間隔的年限要分級，以年齡分級，這個部分我們會細部去討論，怎麼樣年齡的分級是比較合理的，我們也會跟醫學單位大家一起諮詢。"],["魯委員明哲：我也建議你們要分級一下，這個要參考一下。第三個是換照檢測的嚴謹度，因為時間不夠我就直接說了。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["魯委員明哲：以目前來看，因為你們要改變嘛！目前第一個是基本的體檢，對此我問了幾個單位，包括公立醫院，包括衛生所，還有部分的特約診所。目前就是基本的身高、體重量一量，視力上有沒有色盲、辨色力、聽力、血壓，大概就是基本的SOP檢查一遍。其中有一個是我們法令規定的，是不是有重大疾病。我就問了一下衛生所，哇！我的天吶！對於重大疾病要怎麼去檢測？因為有些人沒有拿到重大傷病卡，但可能不見得適合駕駛，他其實是沒有辦法，他說我只能去看，目前的部分是只能去看。這個部分能不能增加這種東西，不管是身、心的疾病，我覺得你們要一併考量。","第二個，認知功能測試的部分，三個部分我就不要再重複了，目前的情況總分是22分，你只要拿到10分及格，OK，出去開車就可以再開3年。哇！如果我們考試只得45分，給他看10張圖，只要記得3張就OK、及格，這個部分從民國106年到現在，7到8年的時間，這個部分我覺得你們要去思考一下，尤其你現在要加入危險認知，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：對，是危險感知測驗。"],["魯委員明哲：但是我對危險感知測驗真的要給一個良心的建議，不要再公布題庫了啦！就是時鐘大家練了一天，然後來這邊畫給你看，其實對啦！是有意義啦！你好歹穩穩地照抄也要抄得出來，我理解啦！如果連抄都抄不出來就太危險了！可是針對危險感知，對於一個臨時性的，看的是他的臨場感，你不要又給題庫去練，我覺得總要有一、兩項……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們有現場測試他反應速度的方式。"],["魯委員明哲：會不會有題庫啊？"],["陳部長世凱：那個不會有題庫啦！"],["魯委員明哲：真的嗎？你現在全部都有題庫喔！"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分我們會……"],["魯委員明哲：再來，有關危險感知的部分，現在的檢測以桃園市113年為例，總共有8,311人去特約醫院檢查、體檢，做認知測驗要去特約醫院，他們的服務可能比較好，至於公立醫院跟衛生所等公家單位大概只有7.3%，這是現況，所以你現在的意思是，在決定政策的時候，到最終的執行者，以目前來看，有九成都是到特約醫院，假設要有一些相關的設備、相關的場域，如果是要的部分，請你要把這個併入政策。"],["陳部長世凱：當然，我們會一併考量。"],["魯委員明哲：最後一個問題請部長或司長回答一下，是不是認知功能測驗一定要做？"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告一下，其實這套認知功能測驗基本上就是失智的檢測方式，這個在70歲以上的部分，失智的風險是必須要考量的，但是我們在3個月裡面，針對整體體格檢查項目還有這個部分，我們整體會諮詢專業醫學會的意見。"],["魯委員明哲：因為今天最主要是你們要作一個決策，我才針對高齡提供一些完整的建議給你們思考。我覺得現在你們的法條，很多人都以為幾歲要透過立法院修法，其實並不是，道交條例第七十九條第一項就授權給你們交通部跟內政部，訂定相關車輛要怎麼去弄、駕照要怎麼換，那些都是你們內部的規則，你們部、行政院通過就可以了。這個部分在過去幾年你們是怎麼去做的，我不清楚，但是你們定的這個規則第五十二條之一跟第五十二條之二，尤其是第五十二條之二是針對普通駕照，我們在談的不是職業的，對於普通駕照你們有很明確的規定，你現在講感知功能測驗，在這個測驗裡面要加什麼危機的概念？"],["陳部長世凱：危險感知。"],["魯委員明哲：危機感知嘛！那我可以不測啊！如果你法條……我不要啊！我不要選這一項啊！因為你法條規定得很清楚，做認知功能測驗或提供未達失智症中級的，也就是說，你回去再加100項，我就不做你這一項。我的意思是說，如果法條你都沒有去調整，他可以選A或者B，但我事實上真的滿擔心的，現在一般的駕駛，你們的概念是只要沒有中度失智症就可以，但這到底符不符合？我希望你們跟專家學者針對現在的交通環境再去……這是他們本身團體的關懷，如果是輕度會有什麼症狀，包括遺忘、包括誤認、包括迷路、包括情緒轉變、暴躁、猶疑不定，可是現在這個我們不管了，你即使是輕度也一樣可以換照，只要沒有中度就可以，而且如果沒有拿到中度證明的話，也不用去做認知功能測試，甚至是這個部分。我覺得在法條上面，你們就自己規定，不用通過我們，是不是可以完整考量？部長你說一下。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，您對這個部分的提醒很好，我們未來在修定整套方案的時候，一定會讓它能夠完善，不要讓大家有選擇，可以選擇這個、選擇那個，這個在法條上面該怎麼防範，我們會來注意。"],["魯委員明哲：好。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：等一下林俊憲委員質詢完，我們休息，休息之後開始開會時就處理臨時提案。","現在請陳素月委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":414,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-12","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","傅崐萁","魯明哲","陳素月","林俊憲","廖先翔","黃健豪","何欣純","蔡其昌","徐富癸","邱若華","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃建賓","張啓楷","王美惠","郭昱晴","牛煦庭","陳雪生","林月琴","邱志偉","游顥","林國成","楊瓊瓔","羅廷瑋","林德福"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145302_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查及處理114年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計48案；二、審查及處理114\n年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計20案；三、處理114年度中央政府總預算\n關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計8案","agenda_id":"1145302_00004"}}}