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\"我\", \"start\": 69.102, \"end\": 69.202, \"score\": 0.553}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 69.202, \"end\": 69.582, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 69.582, \"end\": 70.302, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 70.302, \"end\": 70.442, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 70.442, \"end\": 71.062, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 71.062, \"end\": 72.003, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 72.003, \"end\": 72.143, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 72.143, \"end\": 72.283, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 72.283, \"end\": 72.803, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"刪\"}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 72.803, \"end\": 73.023, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 73.023, \"end\": 73.043, \"score\": 0.553}]}, {\"start\": 74.249, \"end\": 91.418, \"text\": \"那麼快要將近兩億元就是說還有在院會的還有兩億是包含給海基會的七千萬的補助啦那所以說這樣我剛剛這樣的問題就是我們要共三減的是一億九千四百十八萬這是創下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": 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\"零七百多萬這個都是不可媒體宣傳費當然這個也是被刪除很多媒體宣傳費我們原本正常的大樓維持費水電費我們原本是預計七月份以後就無以為繼不過首先有這個解凍預算讓我們現在沒有跟你講解凍解凍國民黨全部朝思逃逸都沒有來我現在跟你講刪除刪除的部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 117.981, \"end\": 118.561, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"七\", \"start\": 118.561, \"end\": 118.681, \"score\": 0.629}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 118.681, \"end\": 118.821, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 118.821, \"end\": 119.902, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 119.902, \"end\": 120.182, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 120.182, \"end\": 120.802, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 120.802, \"end\": 120.942, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 120.942, \"end\": 121.303, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"媒\", \"start\": 121.303, \"end\": 121.583, \"score\": 0.596}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 121.583, \"end\": 122.363, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 695.08, \"end\": 695.1, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,735 --> 00:00:06,615\n請邱主委邱主委有請林委員好主委辛苦我們去年在內政委員會在審查陸委會預算的時候我相信不管是執政黨委員或者是陸委會都費盡心力希望可以捍衛陸委會的預算因為試射我們對中國的這些事務還有對中國的這些研判等等的業務\n\n2\n00:00:33,291 --> 00:00:44,055\n在這邊今天正常質詢我想要請問主委在內政委員會被刪除3200萬但是最後在委員會被刪除8800萬在院會被刪除8800萬這樣是算8800萬還是1億2最後送出來的結果是怎樣\n\n3\n00:00:54,898 --> 00:01:13,043\n我想我們整個預算過去在內政委員會內政三千兩百萬然後去到議員會又八千八這樣是加起來還是這樣是一億二還是八千八影響到陸委會的預算我想是快要兩億元就是被刪除的\n\n4\n00:01:14,249 --> 00:01:31,418\n那麼快要將近兩億元就是說還有在院會的還有兩億是包含給海基會的七千萬的補助啦那所以說這樣我剛剛這樣的問題就是我們要共三減的是一億九千四百十八萬這是創下\n\n5\n00:01:32,850 --> 00:01:56,640\n如果會成立以來,會被刪除最多的有什麼很難做的,有影響到哪一些業務?剛開始,我們感謝上個禮拜一委員有協助我們解凍解凍跟刪不一樣,我們先把刪的講出來刪的部分,包括業務費就被刪掉八千多萬那講補助是一億\n\n6\n00:01:57,981 --> 00:02:18,691\n零七百多萬這個都是不可媒體宣傳費當然這個也是被刪除很多媒體宣傳費我們原本正常的大樓維持費水電費我們原本是預計七月份以後就無以為繼不過首先有這個解凍預算讓我們現在沒有跟你講解凍解凍國民黨全部朝思逃逸都沒有來我現在跟你講刪除刪除的部分\n\n7\n00:02:26,334 --> 00:02:45,365\n這個沒宣費他影響到什麼影響到剛剛其實剛剛很多委員質詢的內容是包含抖音裡面出現的形態我現在整理成兩種好了第一種剛剛講的不斷有陸配或不斷有帶貨的網紅出現這些武統台灣的言論等等的其實\n\n8\n00:02:46,462 --> 00:03:06,151\n我們這樣看起來都是背後一套攻勢來鼓勵這些網紅然後衝流量衝了流量之後就是一種認知作戰有了這些衝流量他們就鼓勵接下來另外有這些小學生在校園外面拍小學生等等的這些\n\n9\n00:03:07,851 --> 00:03:26,247\n陸委會如果沒有相關的這些宣傳的費用我們怎麼樣讓國人知道現在又發生什麼事現在又在習哪一些觀念那現在可能又要教小學生跳什麼舞然後其實背後又蘊藏哪一些他們想要做這些認知作戰的東西我覺得陸委會這一方面要非常非常敏感\n\n10\n00:03:27,268 --> 00:03:43,247\n謝謝委員我們雖然預算被刪除很多特別是我們的媒宣所以我們自己我們同仁自己要自己拍短短影音的影片來做宣傳主委你有沒有用抖音我沒有我們政府機關人員\n\n11\n00:03:44,429 --> 00:04:01,408\n會觀察但是我們不能使用一定要觀察啦因為我們看到大量的這些認知作戰的內容有時候想要舉報給政府單位如果我說我沒有這個東西我沒有這個軟體我沒有辦法看其實你永遠不知道他們在做什麼\n\n12\n00:04:01,989 --> 00:04:17,054\n所以我們都很關注那我要跟委員報告截至目前為止抖音它有嚴重的治安還有收集民眾各自的問題所以我們政府機關是被我們是沒有在用\n\n13\n00:04:17,934 --> 00:04:32,983\n其實在校園內部也在宣導校園內部的設備網路都不可以使用TikTok只不過現在民眾還是可以透過他網路下載APP來使用\n\n14\n00:04:33,723 --> 00:04:52,036\n不過整體而言抖音並沒有合法落地那這也是我們要有效監管雖然沒有合法落地但是由於民眾可以自己下載那這個確實在我們查處抖音相關的問題當中我們還缺乏一個\n\n15\n00:04:53,417 --> 00:05:17,692\n法律,其實不只抖音,那其實包括臉書臉書在最近被披露以前的臉書的一個前執行長他出了一本書,那裡面就講到臉書跟中共的關係當貼文瀏覽超過一萬次,會自動提交總編輯進行人工審查當六四或者是有一些特定時機的時候\n\n16\n00:05:19,451 --> 00:05:44,440\n臉書其實在中國它就是有一些東西就會禁止的那尤其在香港漁場革命的時候臉書也發揮了很多的這些暗黑的功能所以台灣面臨的其實不只抖音不只臉書各方面的這些認知作戰或者是隱藏台灣民主訊息的這些機制非常多那陸委會雖然在預算被刪除\n\n17\n00:05:46,341 --> 00:06:01,053\n很多的情況下那還是要很努力的去讓國人知道目前這些統戰還有這些認知作戰的這些呃形態到底有多多我今天其實還整理了包含藝人藝人其實我們的藝人去到那裡\n\n18\n00:06:02,465 --> 00:06:20,323\n被公式化必須要做出某一些言論的時候其實我們都很心痛啦那我們都覺得這些演藝或文化的交流不應該有這些政治但是都已經被要求了那我們其實不管是歌迷或者是政府\n\n19\n00:06:20,814 --> 00:06:43,606\n很多都是採取包容都知道啊你去到那裡那你就是被強迫做這些事嘛那還是有畫一些紅線這個我在這邊表示支持但是我們最大的還是包容知道其實我們的藝人是被要求做這些事啦那紅線也要畫好我們確實啊我們跟這個文化部的行政查處小組啊那除了管理之外我們也要關懷第一個\n\n20\n00:06:46,209 --> 00:07:05,401\n被政治要求反太這是被嘛這是被不是他阻擋這是被嘛對很可能是這樣而且或是經紀公司要求等等的那另外我們也了解這個不是一人自己因為以我們台灣人啊這個飲水思源的善良本質啊\n\n21\n00:07:06,101 --> 00:07:20,428\n不會去糟蹋當年在台灣這塊土地支持培養他們的這些親友或是支持者所以去到大陸為什麼會如此的反常來傷害這幾個國家的主權\n\n22\n00:07:26,472 --> 00:07:48,493\n這個呼應對台軍演這個是我們也在懷疑所以我們才會跟文化部要組一個行政查處的一個小組一方面管理二方面提醒風險三方面就是關懷有可能齁其實他們去到那裡去到中國可能要在某一個城市開演唱會的時候有一些申請的流程\n\n23\n00:07:49,209 --> 00:08:14,095\n那這些申請的流程裡面可能就必須要簽署一些認同書啊這也是背啊是所以我們理解這我們要非常清楚那當然最好我們我想基於保護這些藝人我們也不可能拿到這些可能有簽署哪一些認同書等等的最後跟主委探討一個問題主委的觀念非常好也突然打醒了很多這些宗教交流的這些人士\n\n24\n00:08:15,376 --> 00:08:33,391\n宗教交流中國的宗教中國的廟宇是哪一個他們的哪一個單位在管控主委我想是他們統戰部下轄的這個這個統戰部之外我知道的還有一些他中國是沒有信仰嘛\n\n25\n00:08:34,244 --> 00:08:49,551\n那所以他的廟其實都是各地方政府的觀光旅遊單位有可能觀光旅遊單位觀光旅遊單位他來到台灣的時候可能是申請到統戰部的這些經費來到台灣做交流\n\n26\n00:08:50,211 --> 00:09:08,027\n而這些中國的這些廟宇來到台灣的人士跟台灣的廟宇去到中國交流的人士是不一樣的喔台灣的廟宇去到中國的人士大家都知道這個廟宇很多都是關心信仰或者是地方人士真的是這些組成的中國是誰組成的主委\n\n27\n00:09:10,050 --> 00:09:31,318\n我想因為中國大陸他們是包括共產黨他們是無神論他們對於宗教過去說他是這個壓迫人民的鴉片所以他們對宗教的管理是放在統戰部裡面統戰部所以他派的這個廟的主委是統戰部派的\n\n28\n00:09:31,858 --> 00:09:53,218\n對就是說他在從事兩岸的宗教交流很可能就基於統戰的因素那所以這個跟我們台灣有信仰的自由不同中國大陸是沒有信仰自由剛剛海基會說我們四位這個一貫道的道卿還被他們查扣還沒回來用刑法來起訴判刑已經起訴判刑\n\n29\n00:09:55,100 --> 00:10:12,758\n所以這個都是讓我們覺得兩岸的這個宗教交流固然我們應該推動因為畢竟台灣是一個宗教自由的國家那中國大陸就不是所以這個也就是我們希望未來的宗教交流要專業性不要賦予它\n\n30\n00:10:14,019 --> 00:10:34,434\n我這樣講好了啦,如果我們跟他一樣的話,我們某個廟的主委,就是陸委會,指派你變成主委去中國交流,在台灣不可能發生啦。不可能嘛。但是你現在在台灣看到來宗教交流的某一個主委,他有可能就是中國統戰部,任命你為某一個廟的主委來台灣做這些宗教的交流,是不是這樣?\n\n31\n00:10:35,234 --> 00:11:00,521\n當然我們願意促進兩岸的宗教專業性的交流如果說它沒有政治因素或是沒有統戰的因素純粹就是說對宗教的比如說儀軌包括整個他們的教義或是對於宗教的儀式這方面專業的交流我們都尊重\n\n32\n00:11:01,802 --> 00:11:16,793\n而不是說用統戰部台辦的人混進來做交流或是一直在執行他們是主神我們是分離在台灣進行各方面的這些遶境而且各縣市的遶境這種遶境活動在中國也不常見\n\n33\n00:11:19,435 --> 00:11:35,100\n為什麼都在台灣遶境連神的世界都要矮化我們所以我們要非常的關注他們透過宗教交流進行這方面的統戰作為這是我們要排除但是對於宗教交流專業交流我的時間到了連宗教都要統戰我們這句話謝謝謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4735\t6615\t請邱主委邱主委有請林委員好主委辛苦我們去年在內政委員會在審查陸委會預算的時候我相信不管是執政黨委員或者是陸委會都費盡心力希望可以捍衛陸委會的預算因為試射我們對中國的這些事務還有對中國的這些研判等等的業務\n33291\t44055\t在這邊今天正常質詢我想要請問主委在內政委員會被刪除3200萬但是最後在委員會被刪除8800萬在院會被刪除8800萬這樣是算8800萬還是1億2最後送出來的結果是怎樣\n54898\t73043\t我想我們整個預算過去在內政委員會內政三千兩百萬然後去到議員會又八千八這樣是加起來還是這樣是一億二還是八千八影響到陸委會的預算我想是快要兩億元就是被刪除的\n74249\t91418\t那麼快要將近兩億元就是說還有在院會的還有兩億是包含給海基會的七千萬的補助啦那所以說這樣我剛剛這樣的問題就是我們要共三減的是一億九千四百十八萬這是創下\n92850\t116640\t如果會成立以來,會被刪除最多的有什麼很難做的,有影響到哪一些業務?剛開始,我們感謝上個禮拜一委員有協助我們解凍解凍跟刪不一樣,我們先把刪的講出來刪的部分,包括業務費就被刪掉八千多萬那講補助是一億\n117981\t138691\t零七百多萬這個都是不可媒體宣傳費當然這個也是被刪除很多媒體宣傳費我們原本正常的大樓維持費水電費我們原本是預計七月份以後就無以為繼不過首先有這個解凍預算讓我們現在沒有跟你講解凍解凍國民黨全部朝思逃逸都沒有來我現在跟你講刪除刪除的部分\n146334\t165365\t這個沒宣費他影響到什麼影響到剛剛其實剛剛很多委員質詢的內容是包含抖音裡面出現的形態我現在整理成兩種好了第一種剛剛講的不斷有陸配或不斷有帶貨的網紅出現這些武統台灣的言論等等的其實\n166462\t186151\t我們這樣看起來都是背後一套攻勢來鼓勵這些網紅然後衝流量衝了流量之後就是一種認知作戰有了這些衝流量他們就鼓勵接下來另外有這些小學生在校園外面拍小學生等等的這些\n187851\t206247\t陸委會如果沒有相關的這些宣傳的費用我們怎麼樣讓國人知道現在又發生什麼事現在又在習哪一些觀念那現在可能又要教小學生跳什麼舞然後其實背後又蘊藏哪一些他們想要做這些認知作戰的東西我覺得陸委會這一方面要非常非常敏感\n207268\t223247\t謝謝委員我們雖然預算被刪除很多特別是我們的媒宣所以我們自己我們同仁自己要自己拍短短影音的影片來做宣傳主委你有沒有用抖音我沒有我們政府機關人員\n224429\t241408\t會觀察但是我們不能使用一定要觀察啦因為我們看到大量的這些認知作戰的內容有時候想要舉報給政府單位如果我說我沒有這個東西我沒有這個軟體我沒有辦法看其實你永遠不知道他們在做什麼\n241989\t257054\t所以我們都很關注那我要跟委員報告截至目前為止抖音它有嚴重的治安還有收集民眾各自的問題所以我們政府機關是被我們是沒有在用\n257934\t272983\t其實在校園內部也在宣導校園內部的設備網路都不可以使用TikTok只不過現在民眾還是可以透過他網路下載APP來使用\n273723\t292036\t不過整體而言抖音並沒有合法落地那這也是我們要有效監管雖然沒有合法落地但是由於民眾可以自己下載那這個確實在我們查處抖音相關的問題當中我們還缺乏一個\n293417\t317692\t法律,其實不只抖音,那其實包括臉書臉書在最近被披露以前的臉書的一個前執行長他出了一本書,那裡面就講到臉書跟中共的關係當貼文瀏覽超過一萬次,會自動提交總編輯進行人工審查當六四或者是有一些特定時機的時候\n319451\t344440\t臉書其實在中國它就是有一些東西就會禁止的那尤其在香港漁場革命的時候臉書也發揮了很多的這些暗黑的功能所以台灣面臨的其實不只抖音不只臉書各方面的這些認知作戰或者是隱藏台灣民主訊息的這些機制非常多那陸委會雖然在預算被刪除\n346341\t361053\t很多的情況下那還是要很努力的去讓國人知道目前這些統戰還有這些認知作戰的這些呃形態到底有多多我今天其實還整理了包含藝人藝人其實我們的藝人去到那裡\n362465\t380323\t被公式化必須要做出某一些言論的時候其實我們都很心痛啦那我們都覺得這些演藝或文化的交流不應該有這些政治但是都已經被要求了那我們其實不管是歌迷或者是政府\n380814\t403606\t很多都是採取包容都知道啊你去到那裡那你就是被強迫做這些事嘛那還是有畫一些紅線這個我在這邊表示支持但是我們最大的還是包容知道其實我們的藝人是被要求做這些事啦那紅線也要畫好我們確實啊我們跟這個文化部的行政查處小組啊那除了管理之外我們也要關懷第一個\n406209\t425401\t被政治要求反太這是被嘛這是被不是他阻擋這是被嘛對很可能是這樣而且或是經紀公司要求等等的那另外我們也了解這個不是一人自己因為以我們台灣人啊這個飲水思源的善良本質啊\n426101\t440428\t不會去糟蹋當年在台灣這塊土地支持培養他們的這些親友或是支持者所以去到大陸為什麼會如此的反常來傷害這幾個國家的主權\n446472\t468493\t這個呼應對台軍演這個是我們也在懷疑所以我們才會跟文化部要組一個行政查處的一個小組一方面管理二方面提醒風險三方面就是關懷有可能齁其實他們去到那裡去到中國可能要在某一個城市開演唱會的時候有一些申請的流程\n469209\t494095\t那這些申請的流程裡面可能就必須要簽署一些認同書啊這也是背啊是所以我們理解這我們要非常清楚那當然最好我們我想基於保護這些藝人我們也不可能拿到這些可能有簽署哪一些認同書等等的最後跟主委探討一個問題主委的觀念非常好也突然打醒了很多這些宗教交流的這些人士\n495376\t513391\t宗教交流中國的宗教中國的廟宇是哪一個他們的哪一個單位在管控主委我想是他們統戰部下轄的這個這個統戰部之外我知道的還有一些他中國是沒有信仰嘛\n514244\t529551\t那所以他的廟其實都是各地方政府的觀光旅遊單位有可能觀光旅遊單位觀光旅遊單位他來到台灣的時候可能是申請到統戰部的這些經費來到台灣做交流\n530211\t548027\t而這些中國的這些廟宇來到台灣的人士跟台灣的廟宇去到中國交流的人士是不一樣的喔台灣的廟宇去到中國的人士大家都知道這個廟宇很多都是關心信仰或者是地方人士真的是這些組成的中國是誰組成的 主委\n550050\t571318\t我想因為中國大陸他們是包括共產黨他們是無神論他們對於宗教過去說他是這個壓迫人民的鴉片所以他們對宗教的管理是放在統戰部裡面統戰部所以他派的這個廟的主委是統戰部派的\n571858\t593218\t對就是說他在從事兩岸的宗教交流很可能就基於統戰的因素那所以這個跟我們台灣有信仰的自由不同中國大陸是沒有信仰自由剛剛海基會說我們四位這個一貫道的道卿還被他們查扣還沒回來用刑法來起訴判刑已經起訴判刑\n595100\t612758\t所以這個都是讓我們覺得兩岸的這個宗教交流固然我們應該推動因為畢竟台灣是一個宗教自由的國家那中國大陸就不是所以這個也就是我們希望未來的宗教交流要專業性不要賦予它\n614019\t634434\t我這樣講好了啦,如果我們跟他一樣的話,我們某個廟的主委,就是陸委會,指派你變成主委去中國交流,在台灣不可能發生啦。不可能嘛。但是你現在在台灣看到來宗教交流的某一個主委,他有可能就是中國統戰部,任命你為某一個廟的主委來台灣做這些宗教的交流,是不是這樣?\n635234\t660521\t當然我們願意促進兩岸的宗教專業性的交流如果說它沒有政治因素或是沒有統戰的因素純粹就是說對宗教的比如說儀軌包括整個他們的教義或是對於宗教的儀式這方面專業的交流我們都尊重\n661802\t676793\t而不是說用統戰部台辦的人混進來做交流或是一直在執行他們是主神我們是分離在台灣進行各方面的這些遶境而且各縣市的遶境這種遶境活動在中國也不常見\n679435\t695100\t為什麼都在台灣遶境連神的世界都要矮化我們所以我們要非常的關注他們透過宗教交流進行這方面的統戰作為這是我們要排除但是對於宗教交流專業交流我的時間到了連宗教都要統戰我們這句話 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員\n","txt":"請邱主委邱主委有請林委員好主委辛苦我們去年在內政委員會在審查陸委會預算的時候我相信不管是執政黨委員或者是陸委會都費盡心力希望可以捍衛陸委會的預算因為試射我們對中國的這些事務還有對中國的這些研判等等的業務\n在這邊今天正常質詢我想要請問主委在內政委員會被刪除3200萬但是最後在委員會被刪除8800萬在院會被刪除8800萬這樣是算8800萬還是1億2最後送出來的結果是怎樣\n我想我們整個預算過去在內政委員會內政三千兩百萬然後去到議員會又八千八這樣是加起來還是這樣是一億二還是八千八影響到陸委會的預算我想是快要兩億元就是被刪除的\n那麼快要將近兩億元就是說還有在院會的還有兩億是包含給海基會的七千萬的補助啦那所以說這樣我剛剛這樣的問題就是我們要共三減的是一億九千四百十八萬這是創下\n如果會成立以來,會被刪除最多的有什麼很難做的,有影響到哪一些業務?剛開始,我們感謝上個禮拜一委員有協助我們解凍解凍跟刪不一樣,我們先把刪的講出來刪的部分,包括業務費就被刪掉八千多萬那講補助是一億\n零七百多萬這個都是不可媒體宣傳費當然這個也是被刪除很多媒體宣傳費我們原本正常的大樓維持費水電費我們原本是預計七月份以後就無以為繼不過首先有這個解凍預算讓我們現在沒有跟你講解凍解凍國民黨全部朝思逃逸都沒有來我現在跟你講刪除刪除的部分\n這個沒宣費他影響到什麼影響到剛剛其實剛剛很多委員質詢的內容是包含抖音裡面出現的形態我現在整理成兩種好了第一種剛剛講的不斷有陸配或不斷有帶貨的網紅出現這些武統台灣的言論等等的其實\n我們這樣看起來都是背後一套攻勢來鼓勵這些網紅然後衝流量衝了流量之後就是一種認知作戰有了這些衝流量他們就鼓勵接下來另外有這些小學生在校園外面拍小學生等等的這些\n陸委會如果沒有相關的這些宣傳的費用我們怎麼樣讓國人知道現在又發生什麼事現在又在習哪一些觀念那現在可能又要教小學生跳什麼舞然後其實背後又蘊藏哪一些他們想要做這些認知作戰的東西我覺得陸委會這一方面要非常非常敏感\n謝謝委員我們雖然預算被刪除很多特別是我們的媒宣所以我們自己我們同仁自己要自己拍短短影音的影片來做宣傳主委你有沒有用抖音我沒有我們政府機關人員\n會觀察但是我們不能使用一定要觀察啦因為我們看到大量的這些認知作戰的內容有時候想要舉報給政府單位如果我說我沒有這個東西我沒有這個軟體我沒有辦法看其實你永遠不知道他們在做什麼\n所以我們都很關注那我要跟委員報告截至目前為止抖音它有嚴重的治安還有收集民眾各自的問題所以我們政府機關是被我們是沒有在用\n其實在校園內部也在宣導校園內部的設備網路都不可以使用TikTok只不過現在民眾還是可以透過他網路下載APP來使用\n不過整體而言抖音並沒有合法落地那這也是我們要有效監管雖然沒有合法落地但是由於民眾可以自己下載那這個確實在我們查處抖音相關的問題當中我們還缺乏一個\n法律,其實不只抖音,那其實包括臉書臉書在最近被披露以前的臉書的一個前執行長他出了一本書,那裡面就講到臉書跟中共的關係當貼文瀏覽超過一萬次,會自動提交總編輯進行人工審查當六四或者是有一些特定時機的時候\n臉書其實在中國它就是有一些東西就會禁止的那尤其在香港漁場革命的時候臉書也發揮了很多的這些暗黑的功能所以台灣面臨的其實不只抖音不只臉書各方面的這些認知作戰或者是隱藏台灣民主訊息的這些機制非常多那陸委會雖然在預算被刪除\n很多的情況下那還是要很努力的去讓國人知道目前這些統戰還有這些認知作戰的這些呃形態到底有多多我今天其實還整理了包含藝人藝人其實我們的藝人去到那裡\n被公式化必須要做出某一些言論的時候其實我們都很心痛啦那我們都覺得這些演藝或文化的交流不應該有這些政治但是都已經被要求了那我們其實不管是歌迷或者是政府\n很多都是採取包容都知道啊你去到那裡那你就是被強迫做這些事嘛那還是有畫一些紅線這個我在這邊表示支持但是我們最大的還是包容知道其實我們的藝人是被要求做這些事啦那紅線也要畫好我們確實啊我們跟這個文化部的行政查處小組啊那除了管理之外我們也要關懷第一個\n被政治要求反太這是被嘛這是被不是他阻擋這是被嘛對很可能是這樣而且或是經紀公司要求等等的那另外我們也了解這個不是一人自己因為以我們台灣人啊這個飲水思源的善良本質啊\n不會去糟蹋當年在台灣這塊土地支持培養他們的這些親友或是支持者所以去到大陸為什麼會如此的反常來傷害這幾個國家的主權\n這個呼應對台軍演這個是我們也在懷疑所以我們才會跟文化部要組一個行政查處的一個小組一方面管理二方面提醒風險三方面就是關懷有可能齁其實他們去到那裡去到中國可能要在某一個城市開演唱會的時候有一些申請的流程\n那這些申請的流程裡面可能就必須要簽署一些認同書啊這也是背啊是所以我們理解這我們要非常清楚那當然最好我們我想基於保護這些藝人我們也不可能拿到這些可能有簽署哪一些認同書等等的最後跟主委探討一個問題主委的觀念非常好也突然打醒了很多這些宗教交流的這些人士\n宗教交流中國的宗教中國的廟宇是哪一個他們的哪一個單位在管控主委我想是他們統戰部下轄的這個這個統戰部之外我知道的還有一些他中國是沒有信仰嘛\n那所以他的廟其實都是各地方政府的觀光旅遊單位有可能觀光旅遊單位觀光旅遊單位他來到台灣的時候可能是申請到統戰部的這些經費來到台灣做交流\n而這些中國的這些廟宇來到台灣的人士跟台灣的廟宇去到中國交流的人士是不一樣的喔台灣的廟宇去到中國的人士大家都知道這個廟宇很多都是關心信仰或者是地方人士真的是這些組成的中國是誰組成的 主委\n我想因為中國大陸他們是包括共產黨他們是無神論他們對於宗教過去說他是這個壓迫人民的鴉片所以他們對宗教的管理是放在統戰部裡面統戰部所以他派的這個廟的主委是統戰部派的\n對就是說他在從事兩岸的宗教交流很可能就基於統戰的因素那所以這個跟我們台灣有信仰的自由不同中國大陸是沒有信仰自由剛剛海基會說我們四位這個一貫道的道卿還被他們查扣還沒回來用刑法來起訴判刑已經起訴判刑\n所以這個都是讓我們覺得兩岸的這個宗教交流固然我們應該推動因為畢竟台灣是一個宗教自由的國家那中國大陸就不是所以這個也就是我們希望未來的宗教交流要專業性不要賦予它\n我這樣講好了啦,如果我們跟他一樣的話,我們某個廟的主委,就是陸委會,指派你變成主委去中國交流,在台灣不可能發生啦。不可能嘛。但是你現在在台灣看到來宗教交流的某一個主委,他有可能就是中國統戰部,任命你為某一個廟的主委來台灣做這些宗教的交流,是不是這樣?\n當然我們願意促進兩岸的宗教專業性的交流如果說它沒有政治因素或是沒有統戰的因素純粹就是說對宗教的比如說儀軌包括整個他們的教義或是對於宗教的儀式這方面專業的交流我們都尊重\n而不是說用統戰部台辦的人混進來做交流或是一直在執行他們是主神我們是分離在台灣進行各方面的這些遶境而且各縣市的遶境這種遶境活動在中國也不常見\n為什麼都在台灣遶境連神的世界都要矮化我們所以我們要非常的關注他們透過宗教交流進行這方面的統戰作為這是我們要排除但是對於宗教交流專業交流我的時間到了連宗教都要統戰我們這句話 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.735 --> 00:06.615\n請邱主委邱主委有請林委員好主委辛苦我們去年在內政委員會在審查陸委會預算的時候我相信不管是執政黨委員或者是陸委會都費盡心力希望可以捍衛陸委會的預算因為試射我們對中國的這些事務還有對中國的這些研判等等的業務\n\n00:33.291 --> 00:44.055\n在這邊今天正常質詢我想要請問主委在內政委員會被刪除3200萬但是最後在委員會被刪除8800萬在院會被刪除8800萬這樣是算8800萬還是1億2最後送出來的結果是怎樣\n\n00:54.898 --> 01:13.043\n我想我們整個預算過去在內政委員會內政三千兩百萬然後去到議員會又八千八這樣是加起來還是這樣是一億二還是八千八影響到陸委會的預算我想是快要兩億元就是被刪除的\n\n01:14.249 --> 01:31.418\n那麼快要將近兩億元就是說還有在院會的還有兩億是包含給海基會的七千萬的補助啦那所以說這樣我剛剛這樣的問題就是我們要共三減的是一億九千四百十八萬這是創下\n\n01:32.850 --> 01:56.640\n如果會成立以來,會被刪除最多的有什麼很難做的,有影響到哪一些業務?剛開始,我們感謝上個禮拜一委員有協助我們解凍解凍跟刪不一樣,我們先把刪的講出來刪的部分,包括業務費就被刪掉八千多萬那講補助是一億\n\n01:57.981 --> 02:18.691\n零七百多萬這個都是不可媒體宣傳費當然這個也是被刪除很多媒體宣傳費我們原本正常的大樓維持費水電費我們原本是預計七月份以後就無以為繼不過首先有這個解凍預算讓我們現在沒有跟你講解凍解凍國民黨全部朝思逃逸都沒有來我現在跟你講刪除刪除的部分\n\n02:26.334 --> 02:45.365\n這個沒宣費他影響到什麼影響到剛剛其實剛剛很多委員質詢的內容是包含抖音裡面出現的形態我現在整理成兩種好了第一種剛剛講的不斷有陸配或不斷有帶貨的網紅出現這些武統台灣的言論等等的其實\n\n02:46.462 --> 03:06.151\n我們這樣看起來都是背後一套攻勢來鼓勵這些網紅然後衝流量衝了流量之後就是一種認知作戰有了這些衝流量他們就鼓勵接下來另外有這些小學生在校園外面拍小學生等等的這些\n\n03:07.851 --> 03:26.247\n陸委會如果沒有相關的這些宣傳的費用我們怎麼樣讓國人知道現在又發生什麼事現在又在習哪一些觀念那現在可能又要教小學生跳什麼舞然後其實背後又蘊藏哪一些他們想要做這些認知作戰的東西我覺得陸委會這一方面要非常非常敏感\n\n03:27.268 --> 03:43.247\n謝謝委員我們雖然預算被刪除很多特別是我們的媒宣所以我們自己我們同仁自己要自己拍短短影音的影片來做宣傳主委你有沒有用抖音我沒有我們政府機關人員\n\n03:44.429 --> 04:01.408\n會觀察但是我們不能使用一定要觀察啦因為我們看到大量的這些認知作戰的內容有時候想要舉報給政府單位如果我說我沒有這個東西我沒有這個軟體我沒有辦法看其實你永遠不知道他們在做什麼\n\n04:01.989 --> 04:17.054\n所以我們都很關注那我要跟委員報告截至目前為止抖音它有嚴重的治安還有收集民眾各自的問題所以我們政府機關是被我們是沒有在用\n\n04:17.934 --> 04:32.983\n其實在校園內部也在宣導校園內部的設備網路都不可以使用TikTok只不過現在民眾還是可以透過他網路下載APP來使用\n\n04:33.723 --> 04:52.036\n不過整體而言抖音並沒有合法落地那這也是我們要有效監管雖然沒有合法落地但是由於民眾可以自己下載那這個確實在我們查處抖音相關的問題當中我們還缺乏一個\n\n04:53.417 --> 05:17.692\n法律,其實不只抖音,那其實包括臉書臉書在最近被披露以前的臉書的一個前執行長他出了一本書,那裡面就講到臉書跟中共的關係當貼文瀏覽超過一萬次,會自動提交總編輯進行人工審查當六四或者是有一些特定時機的時候\n\n05:19.451 --> 05:44.440\n臉書其實在中國它就是有一些東西就會禁止的那尤其在香港漁場革命的時候臉書也發揮了很多的這些暗黑的功能所以台灣面臨的其實不只抖音不只臉書各方面的這些認知作戰或者是隱藏台灣民主訊息的這些機制非常多那陸委會雖然在預算被刪除\n\n05:46.341 --> 06:01.053\n很多的情況下那還是要很努力的去讓國人知道目前這些統戰還有這些認知作戰的這些呃形態到底有多多我今天其實還整理了包含藝人藝人其實我們的藝人去到那裡\n\n06:02.465 --> 06:20.323\n被公式化必須要做出某一些言論的時候其實我們都很心痛啦那我們都覺得這些演藝或文化的交流不應該有這些政治但是都已經被要求了那我們其實不管是歌迷或者是政府\n\n06:20.814 --> 06:43.606\n很多都是採取包容都知道啊你去到那裡那你就是被強迫做這些事嘛那還是有畫一些紅線這個我在這邊表示支持但是我們最大的還是包容知道其實我們的藝人是被要求做這些事啦那紅線也要畫好我們確實啊我們跟這個文化部的行政查處小組啊那除了管理之外我們也要關懷第一個\n\n06:46.209 --> 07:05.401\n被政治要求反太這是被嘛這是被不是他阻擋這是被嘛對很可能是這樣而且或是經紀公司要求等等的那另外我們也了解這個不是一人自己因為以我們台灣人啊這個飲水思源的善良本質啊\n\n07:06.101 --> 07:20.428\n不會去糟蹋當年在台灣這塊土地支持培養他們的這些親友或是支持者所以去到大陸為什麼會如此的反常來傷害這幾個國家的主權\n\n07:26.472 --> 07:48.493\n這個呼應對台軍演這個是我們也在懷疑所以我們才會跟文化部要組一個行政查處的一個小組一方面管理二方面提醒風險三方面就是關懷有可能齁其實他們去到那裡去到中國可能要在某一個城市開演唱會的時候有一些申請的流程\n\n07:49.209 --> 08:14.095\n那這些申請的流程裡面可能就必須要簽署一些認同書啊這也是背啊是所以我們理解這我們要非常清楚那當然最好我們我想基於保護這些藝人我們也不可能拿到這些可能有簽署哪一些認同書等等的最後跟主委探討一個問題主委的觀念非常好也突然打醒了很多這些宗教交流的這些人士\n\n08:15.376 --> 08:33.391\n宗教交流中國的宗教中國的廟宇是哪一個他們的哪一個單位在管控主委我想是他們統戰部下轄的這個這個統戰部之外我知道的還有一些他中國是沒有信仰嘛\n\n08:34.244 --> 08:49.551\n那所以他的廟其實都是各地方政府的觀光旅遊單位有可能觀光旅遊單位觀光旅遊單位他來到台灣的時候可能是申請到統戰部的這些經費來到台灣做交流\n\n08:50.211 --> 09:08.027\n而這些中國的這些廟宇來到台灣的人士跟台灣的廟宇去到中國交流的人士是不一樣的喔台灣的廟宇去到中國的人士大家都知道這個廟宇很多都是關心信仰或者是地方人士真的是這些組成的中國是誰組成的主委\n\n09:10.050 --> 09:31.318\n我想因為中國大陸他們是包括共產黨他們是無神論他們對於宗教過去說他是這個壓迫人民的鴉片所以他們對宗教的管理是放在統戰部裡面統戰部所以他派的這個廟的主委是統戰部派的\n\n09:31.858 --> 09:53.218\n對就是說他在從事兩岸的宗教交流很可能就基於統戰的因素那所以這個跟我們台灣有信仰的自由不同中國大陸是沒有信仰自由剛剛海基會說我們四位這個一貫道的道卿還被他們查扣還沒回來用刑法來起訴判刑已經起訴判刑\n\n09:55.100 --> 10:12.758\n所以這個都是讓我們覺得兩岸的這個宗教交流固然我們應該推動因為畢竟台灣是一個宗教自由的國家那中國大陸就不是所以這個也就是我們希望未來的宗教交流要專業性不要賦予它\n\n10:14.019 --> 10:34.434\n我這樣講好了啦,如果我們跟他一樣的話,我們某個廟的主委,就是陸委會,指派你變成主委去中國交流,在台灣不可能發生啦。不可能嘛。但是你現在在台灣看到來宗教交流的某一個主委,他有可能就是中國統戰部,任命你為某一個廟的主委來台灣做這些宗教的交流,是不是這樣?\n\n10:35.234 --> 11:00.521\n當然我們願意促進兩岸的宗教專業性的交流如果說它沒有政治因素或是沒有統戰的因素純粹就是說對宗教的比如說儀軌包括整個他們的教義或是對於宗教的儀式這方面專業的交流我們都尊重\n\n11:01.802 --> 11:16.793\n而不是說用統戰部台辦的人混進來做交流或是一直在執行他們是主神我們是分離在台灣進行各方面的這些遶境而且各縣市的遶境這種遶境活動在中國也不常見\n\n11:19.435 --> 11:35.100\n為什麼都在台灣遶境連神的世界都要矮化我們所以我們要非常的關注他們透過宗教交流進行這方面的統戰作為這是我們要排除但是對於宗教交流專業交流我的時間到了連宗教都要統戰我們這句話謝謝謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.735,"end":6.615,"text":"請邱主委邱主委有請林委員好主委辛苦我們去年在內政委員會在審查陸委會預算的時候我相信不管是執政黨委員或者是陸委會都費盡心力希望可以捍衛陸委會的預算因為試射我們對中國的這些事務還有對中國的這些研判等等的業務"},{"start":33.291,"end":44.055,"text":"在這邊今天正常質詢我想要請問主委在內政委員會被刪除3200萬但是最後在委員會被刪除8800萬在院會被刪除8800萬這樣是算8800萬還是1億2最後送出來的結果是怎樣"},{"start":54.898,"end":73.043,"text":"我想我們整個預算過去在內政委員會內政三千兩百萬然後去到議員會又八千八這樣是加起來還是這樣是一億二還是八千八影響到陸委會的預算我想是快要兩億元就是被刪除的"},{"start":74.249,"end":91.418,"text":"那麼快要將近兩億元就是說還有在院會的還有兩億是包含給海基會的七千萬的補助啦那所以說這樣我剛剛這樣的問題就是我們要共三減的是一億九千四百十八萬這是創下"},{"start":92.85,"end":116.64,"text":"如果會成立以來,會被刪除最多的有什麼很難做的,有影響到哪一些業務?剛開始,我們感謝上個禮拜一委員有協助我們解凍解凍跟刪不一樣,我們先把刪的講出來刪的部分,包括業務費就被刪掉八千多萬那講補助是一億"},{"start":117.981,"end":138.691,"text":"零七百多萬這個都是不可媒體宣傳費當然這個也是被刪除很多媒體宣傳費我們原本正常的大樓維持費水電費我們原本是預計七月份以後就無以為繼不過首先有這個解凍預算讓我們現在沒有跟你講解凍解凍國民黨全部朝思逃逸都沒有來我現在跟你講刪除刪除的部分"},{"start":146.334,"end":165.365,"text":"這個沒宣費他影響到什麼影響到剛剛其實剛剛很多委員質詢的內容是包含抖音裡面出現的形態我現在整理成兩種好了第一種剛剛講的不斷有陸配或不斷有帶貨的網紅出現這些武統台灣的言論等等的其實"},{"start":166.462,"end":186.151,"text":"我們這樣看起來都是背後一套攻勢來鼓勵這些網紅然後衝流量衝了流量之後就是一種認知作戰有了這些衝流量他們就鼓勵接下來另外有這些小學生在校園外面拍小學生等等的這些"},{"start":187.851,"end":206.247,"text":"陸委會如果沒有相關的這些宣傳的費用我們怎麼樣讓國人知道現在又發生什麼事現在又在習哪一些觀念那現在可能又要教小學生跳什麼舞然後其實背後又蘊藏哪一些他們想要做這些認知作戰的東西我覺得陸委會這一方面要非常非常敏感"},{"start":207.268,"end":223.247,"text":"謝謝委員我們雖然預算被刪除很多特別是我們的媒宣所以我們自己我們同仁自己要自己拍短短影音的影片來做宣傳主委你有沒有用抖音我沒有我們政府機關人員"},{"start":224.429,"end":241.408,"text":"會觀察但是我們不能使用一定要觀察啦因為我們看到大量的這些認知作戰的內容有時候想要舉報給政府單位如果我說我沒有這個東西我沒有這個軟體我沒有辦法看其實你永遠不知道他們在做什麼"},{"start":241.989,"end":257.054,"text":"所以我們都很關注那我要跟委員報告截至目前為止抖音它有嚴重的治安還有收集民眾各自的問題所以我們政府機關是被我們是沒有在用"},{"start":257.934,"end":272.983,"text":"其實在校園內部也在宣導校園內部的設備網路都不可以使用TikTok只不過現在民眾還是可以透過他網路下載APP來使用"},{"start":273.723,"end":292.036,"text":"不過整體而言抖音並沒有合法落地那這也是我們要有效監管雖然沒有合法落地但是由於民眾可以自己下載那這個確實在我們查處抖音相關的問題當中我們還缺乏一個"},{"start":293.417,"end":317.692,"text":"法律,其實不只抖音,那其實包括臉書臉書在最近被披露以前的臉書的一個前執行長他出了一本書,那裡面就講到臉書跟中共的關係當貼文瀏覽超過一萬次,會自動提交總編輯進行人工審查當六四或者是有一些特定時機的時候"},{"start":319.451,"end":344.44,"text":"臉書其實在中國它就是有一些東西就會禁止的那尤其在香港漁場革命的時候臉書也發揮了很多的這些暗黑的功能所以台灣面臨的其實不只抖音不只臉書各方面的這些認知作戰或者是隱藏台灣民主訊息的這些機制非常多那陸委會雖然在預算被刪除"},{"start":346.341,"end":361.053,"text":"很多的情況下那還是要很努力的去讓國人知道目前這些統戰還有這些認知作戰的這些呃形態到底有多多我今天其實還整理了包含藝人藝人其實我們的藝人去到那裡"},{"start":362.465,"end":380.323,"text":"被公式化必須要做出某一些言論的時候其實我們都很心痛啦那我們都覺得這些演藝或文化的交流不應該有這些政治但是都已經被要求了那我們其實不管是歌迷或者是政府"},{"start":380.814,"end":403.606,"text":"很多都是採取包容都知道啊你去到那裡那你就是被強迫做這些事嘛那還是有畫一些紅線這個我在這邊表示支持但是我們最大的還是包容知道其實我們的藝人是被要求做這些事啦那紅線也要畫好我們確實啊我們跟這個文化部的行政查處小組啊那除了管理之外我們也要關懷第一個"},{"start":406.209,"end":425.401,"text":"被政治要求反太這是被嘛這是被不是他阻擋這是被嘛對很可能是這樣而且或是經紀公司要求等等的那另外我們也了解這個不是一人自己因為以我們台灣人啊這個飲水思源的善良本質啊"},{"start":426.101,"end":440.428,"text":"不會去糟蹋當年在台灣這塊土地支持培養他們的這些親友或是支持者所以去到大陸為什麼會如此的反常來傷害這幾個國家的主權"},{"start":446.472,"end":468.493,"text":"這個呼應對台軍演這個是我們也在懷疑所以我們才會跟文化部要組一個行政查處的一個小組一方面管理二方面提醒風險三方面就是關懷有可能齁其實他們去到那裡去到中國可能要在某一個城市開演唱會的時候有一些申請的流程"},{"start":469.209,"end":494.095,"text":"那這些申請的流程裡面可能就必須要簽署一些認同書啊這也是背啊是所以我們理解這我們要非常清楚那當然最好我們我想基於保護這些藝人我們也不可能拿到這些可能有簽署哪一些認同書等等的最後跟主委探討一個問題主委的觀念非常好也突然打醒了很多這些宗教交流的這些人士"},{"start":495.376,"end":513.391,"text":"宗教交流中國的宗教中國的廟宇是哪一個他們的哪一個單位在管控主委我想是他們統戰部下轄的這個這個統戰部之外我知道的還有一些他中國是沒有信仰嘛"},{"start":514.244,"end":529.551,"text":"那所以他的廟其實都是各地方政府的觀光旅遊單位有可能觀光旅遊單位觀光旅遊單位他來到台灣的時候可能是申請到統戰部的這些經費來到台灣做交流"},{"start":530.211,"end":548.027,"text":"而這些中國的這些廟宇來到台灣的人士跟台灣的廟宇去到中國交流的人士是不一樣的喔台灣的廟宇去到中國的人士大家都知道這個廟宇很多都是關心信仰或者是地方人士真的是這些組成的中國是誰組成的 主委"},{"start":550.05,"end":571.318,"text":"我想因為中國大陸他們是包括共產黨他們是無神論他們對於宗教過去說他是這個壓迫人民的鴉片所以他們對宗教的管理是放在統戰部裡面統戰部所以他派的這個廟的主委是統戰部派的"},{"start":571.858,"end":593.218,"text":"對就是說他在從事兩岸的宗教交流很可能就基於統戰的因素那所以這個跟我們台灣有信仰的自由不同中國大陸是沒有信仰自由剛剛海基會說我們四位這個一貫道的道卿還被他們查扣還沒回來用刑法來起訴判刑已經起訴判刑"},{"start":595.1,"end":612.758,"text":"所以這個都是讓我們覺得兩岸的這個宗教交流固然我們應該推動因為畢竟台灣是一個宗教自由的國家那中國大陸就不是所以這個也就是我們希望未來的宗教交流要專業性不要賦予它"},{"start":614.019,"end":634.434,"text":"我這樣講好了啦,如果我們跟他一樣的話,我們某個廟的主委,就是陸委會,指派你變成主委去中國交流,在台灣不可能發生啦。不可能嘛。但是你現在在台灣看到來宗教交流的某一個主委,他有可能就是中國統戰部,任命你為某一個廟的主委來台灣做這些宗教的交流,是不是這樣?"},{"start":635.234,"end":660.521,"text":"當然我們願意促進兩岸的宗教專業性的交流如果說它沒有政治因素或是沒有統戰的因素純粹就是說對宗教的比如說儀軌包括整個他們的教義或是對於宗教的儀式這方面專業的交流我們都尊重"},{"start":661.802,"end":676.793,"text":"而不是說用統戰部台辦的人混進來做交流或是一直在執行他們是主神我們是分離在台灣進行各方面的這些遶境而且各縣市的遶境這種遶境活動在中國也不常見"},{"start":679.435,"end":695.1,"text":"為什麼都在台灣遶境連神的世界都要矮化我們所以我們要非常的關注他們透過宗教交流進行這方面的統戰作為這是我們要排除但是對於宗教交流專業交流我的時間到了連宗教都要統戰我們這句話 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":381,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（10時9分）請邱主委。"],["主席：邱主委有請。"],["邱主任委員垂正：李委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：主委，辛苦了。我們去年內政委員會在審查陸委會的預算時，相信不管是執政黨委員還是陸委會都費盡心力，希望可以捍衛陸委會的預算，因為事涉我們對中國事務還有對中國研判等等的業務。在這邊我今天是正常質詢，想請問主委，在內政委員會被刪除3,200萬，但是最後在院會被刪除了8,800萬，這樣是算被刪了8,800萬還是1億2,000萬？最後送出來的結果是怎樣？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們整個預算過去在內政委員會……"],["李委員柏毅：內政委員會刪了3,200萬嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["李委員柏毅：然後到了院會又被刪了8,800萬，所以影響到陸委會的預算是加起來的1億2,000萬還是8,800萬？"],["邱主任委員垂正：被刪除的將近2億元，因為還有院會的……"],["李委員柏毅：2億是包含給海基會7,000萬的補助？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["李委員柏毅：所以我剛剛的問題就是8,800萬加3,200萬嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們共被刪減1億9,418萬，創下陸委會成立以來被刪除最多的。"],["李委員柏毅：主委，有什麼很難做的？有影響到哪一些業務？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們感謝上禮拜一委員也有協助我們解凍……"],["李委員柏毅：解凍跟刪不一樣，先把刪的講出來。"],["邱主任委員垂正：刪的部分，包括業務費就被刪掉八千多萬，獎補助是一億零七百多萬，這個都是不可……"],["李委員柏毅：媒體宣傳費被刪了60%。"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然，這個也是被刪除了很多。"],["李委員柏毅：媒體宣傳費我覺得……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們原本正常的大樓維持費、水電費預計7月以後就無以為繼，所幸有解凍預算，讓我們可以正常……"],["李委員柏毅：我現在沒有跟你講解凍，解凍的部分國民黨全部肇事逃逸，都沒有來，我現在跟你講的是刪除啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：刪除就是那麼多。"],["李委員柏毅：刪除部分的媒宣費影響到什麼？其實就是影響到剛剛很多委員質詢的內容，包含抖音裡面出現的形態，我現在整理成兩種，第一種就是剛剛講的，不斷有陸配或不斷有帶貨的網紅出現武統臺灣的言論等等，我們這樣看起來背後其實都有一套公式，鼓勵這些網紅來衝流量，衝了流量之後就是一種認知作戰。有了這些流量，他們就鼓勵，接下來就另外有這些在校園外面拍小學生等等的這些。陸委會如果沒有這些相關的宣傳費用，怎麼讓國人知道現在又發生了什麼事？現在又在洗哪一些觀念？現在可能又要教小學生跳什麼舞，背後又蘊藏哪一些他們想要認知作戰的東西？我覺得陸委會在這方面要非常、非常敏感。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員，因為我們的預算被刪除很多，特別是媒宣費用，所以我們同仁要自己去拍短影音的影片做宣傳。"],["李委員柏毅：主委，你有沒有用抖音？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我沒有。"],["李委員柏毅：我是建議你要……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們政府機關人員會觀察，但我們不能使用。"],["李委員柏毅：要觀察啦！一定要觀察啦！因為我們看到了大量認知作戰的內容，有時候想要舉報給政府單位，如果你們說沒有這個軟體、沒有辦法看，就永遠也不知道他們在做什麼"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們都很關注。我要跟委員報告，截至目前為止，抖音有嚴重的資安，還會蒐集民眾個資的問題，所以我們政府機關是沒有在用。其實在校園內部也在宣導，校園內部的設備、網路都不可以使用TikTok，只不過現在民眾還是可以透過他的網路下載app來使用。整體而言，抖音並沒有合法落地，這也是我們要有效監管，雖然沒有合法落地，但是由於民眾可以自己下載，這個在我們查處抖音相關的問題上確實還缺乏一個法律……"],["李委員柏毅：其實不只抖音，包含臉書最近也被披露，以前臉書的一個前執行長出了一本書，裡面就講到臉書跟中共的關係，當貼文瀏覽超過1萬次，會自動提交總編輯進行人工審查，當六四或者是有一些特定時機的時候，臉書其實在中國就有一些東西會禁止的，尤其在香港雨傘革命的時候，臉書也發揮了很多這些暗黑的功能，所以臺灣面臨的不只抖音、不只臉書等各方面的這些認知作戰，或者是隱藏臺灣民主訊息的這些機制非常多，陸委會雖然在預算被凍及被刪除很多的情況下，還是要很努力的讓國人知道，目前這些統戰還有這些認知作戰的型態到底有多少？","今天我還整理了包含藝人的部分，我們的藝人到那裡被公式化必須做出某一些言論的時候，其實我們都很心痛啦！我們都覺得這些演藝或文化的交流，不應該有這些政治，但是都已經被要求了，不管是歌迷或者是政府很多都是採取包容，都知道他們去到那裡，他們就是被強迫做這些事嘛！還是有劃一些紅線，我在這邊表示支持，但是我們最大的還是包容，知道我們的藝人其實是被要求做這些事，紅線也要劃好。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，謝謝。確實我們跟文化部的行政查處小組除了管理之外，也要關懷。"],["李委員柏毅：對。"],["邱主任委員垂正：第一個，被政治要求表態……"],["李委員柏毅：這是「被」，不是他主張的。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，很可能是這樣，或是經紀公司要求等等。另外，我們也了解這不是藝人自己，因為以我們臺灣人飲水思源的善良本質，不會去糟蹋當年在臺灣這塊土地支持培養他們的這些親友或是支持者，所以去到大陸，為什麼會如此的反常來傷害自己國家的主權，還有呼應對岸對臺軍演？這個我們也在懷疑，所以我們才會跟文化部組一個行政查處小組，一方面管理、二方面提醒風險、三方面就是關懷。"],["李委員柏毅：其實他們去到中國，可能要在某一個城市開演唱會的時候，會有一些申請的流程，這些申請的流程裡面可能就必須要簽署一些認同書，這也是「被」啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，所以我們能理解。"],["李委員柏毅：這我們要非常清楚，我想基於保護這些藝人，我們也不可能拿到這些可能有簽署哪一些認同書等等。最後跟主委探討一個問題，主委的觀念非常好，也突然打醒了很多這些宗教交流的人士，中國的宗教、中國的廟宇是他們的哪一個單位在管控？主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想是他們統戰部下轄的宗教……"],["李委員柏毅：統戰部之外，我知道的還有一些，中國是沒有信仰嘛！所以他們的廟其實都是各地方政府的觀光旅遊單位，他們觀光旅遊單位來到臺灣的時候，可能是申請到統戰部的經費來到臺灣交流，而中國這些廟宇來到臺灣的人士，跟臺灣的廟宇去到中國交流的人士是不一樣的喔！臺灣的廟宇去到中國的人士，大家都知道，這些廟宇很多都是真的關心信仰或者是地方人士組成的，而中國是誰組成的？主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：因為中國大陸包括共產黨都是無神論，對於宗教，過去說它是壓迫人民的鴉片，所以他們對宗教的管理是放在統戰部裡面。"],["李委員柏毅：是統戰部，所以他們這些廟的主委是統戰部派的？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，就是他們在從事兩岸的宗教交流，很可能就基於統戰的因素，這跟我們臺灣有信仰的自由不同，中國大陸是沒有信仰自由，剛剛海基會也提到，我們4位一貫道的道親還被他們查扣，還沒回來。"],["李委員柏毅：還沒回來。"],["邱主任委員垂正：用刑法來起訴判刑。"],["李委員柏毅：已經起訴判刑了？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，這些都讓我們覺得兩岸的宗教交流，固然我們應該推動，因為畢竟臺灣是一個宗教自由的國家，但中國大陸不是，所以我們希望未來的宗教交流要專業性，不要賦予它統戰的任務。"],["李委員柏毅：我這樣講好了，如果我們跟他們一樣的話，我們某個廟的主委就是陸委會指派你變成主委去中國交流，在臺灣不可能發生啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：這不可能嘛！"],["李委員柏毅：但是現在臺灣看到來宗教交流的某一個主委，有可能就是中國統戰部任命你為某一間廟的主委來臺灣做宗教的交流，是不是這樣？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，當然我們願意促進兩岸的宗教專業性的交流，如果他們沒有政治因素或是沒有統戰的因素，純粹就是對宗教的比如儀軌，包括他們的教義，或是對於宗教的儀式這方面的專業交流，我們都尊重，而不是用統戰部、臺辦的人混進來做交流，或是一直在執行……他們是主神，我們是分靈，在臺灣進行各方面的繞境，而且是各縣市的繞境，而這種繞境活動，在中國也不常見，為什麼都在臺灣繞境？連神的世界都要矮化我們。"],["李委員柏毅：這句話是金句。"],["邱主任委員垂正：所以我們要非常的關注他們透過宗教交流進行這方面的統戰作為，這是我們要排除。但是，對於宗教交流及專業交流……"],["李委員柏毅：對，主委剛剛那一句話就是金句，我的時間到了，連宗教都要統戰我們，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝李柏毅委員。","下一位請張宏陸召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-20","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","王美惠","李柏毅","張宏陸","黃捷","麥玉珍","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","李坤城","邱志偉","陳雪生","高金素梅","丁學忠"],"page_start":191,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145101_00006"}}}