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\"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 744.955, \"end\": 745.115, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 745.115, \"end\": 745.135, \"score\": 0.024}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,269 --> 00:00:27,797\n我就直接就我的議題我想在總質詢的時候我曾經也跟卓院長討論過成立主權基金那果然在520這一天昨天賴總統就特別提到主權基金的問題那我當時我在總質詢的時候我有特別提到就是說到底評估報告什麼時候會出來整個央行的評估報告到底什麼時候可以給我你們當時有承諾要給我評估報告是一個月還是三個月\n\n2\n00:00:29,158 --> 00:00:32,561\n昨天賴總統講到主權基金這件事情我個人是支持的\n\n3\n00:00:43,601 --> 00:01:02,986\n但是賴總統在講這件事情都沒跟你們都沒有一個評估報告出來嗎跟總統報告嗎這個對國家的正面或者是我們要我們要如何做我想你們應該還是有個整理評估報告吧那個報告委員從歷任的政府總統總評會沒有評估報告就丟出來好我希望我希望\n\n4\n00:01:03,786 --> 00:01:27,317\n三個月之內把評估報告完整詳細的評估報告給我因為這個主權基金我相信在國外許多國家其實運作的都非常的好但是如何維持他獨立性跟他的防弊性我覺得是要是國人大家都關注的那另外目前我們有沒有預計賴總統昨天說了我們何時會成立是一年兩年還是有沒有時間表\n\n5\n00:01:30,141 --> 00:01:47,532\n這個還是要由那個整個行政院在討論才能確定因為還要涉及到修法這些問題專法的設置這樣子好那您個人認為到底未來這個基金的部分是來自外匯群體還是四大基金我想那個楊總在5月8號的報告已經很明確的點出我們的對這個問題的看法\n\n6\n00:01:53,260 --> 00:02:08,624\n內容是什麼基本上它有三種方式財政部的發債財政部撥款或者是財政部出資那這是我們可以看到我們參考主要參考新加坡也不會動到外匯權利也不會動到四大基金也不會有減持美債的問題都沒有這是細節的問題這不是細節的問題因為四大基金有它的法源資金的來源很重要\n\n7\n00:02:22,962 --> 00:02:47,576\n我當時在總質詢的時候我特別有提到對於主權基金這件事情未來一定要成立專法第二政府不能求援兼裁判第三要符合遵守聖利亞哥原則也就是說資金來源它必須由整個政府統籌規劃而且不能無常撥用這些大原則只是讓基金運作維持它的獨立性\n\n8\n00:02:48,456 --> 00:03:05,655\n但是國人更關注從這兩天媒體更關注的就是說基金主權基金在很多國家運作的很好持正面但是如何幫國人擔心的是如何防弊包括未來會不會變成第二個達政案或者是未來如何防弊它有可能變成黨權基金\n\n9\n00:03:08,939 --> 00:03:29,331\n這個都是要跟國人交代清楚的所以我期望在這個專案報告裡面就是說你們評估報告裡面這些事情必須要交代清楚所以如果你剛才講資金來源那未來所以完全不會由外匯存底這邊來去做資金的來源之一嗎不會\n\n10\n00:03:30,611 --> 00:03:34,094\n這個是可以考慮的那副總裁我再問一個問題它的利率會不會低於未來外匯全體投資運用的報酬2.6%\n\n11\n00:03:43,032 --> 00:03:59,739\n因為主權基金它的投資的報酬率偏高但是它的也面臨很大的風險這跟外匯存體的操作是不一樣所以我提的是說央行有償借用的部分不得低於央行現在外匯存體的投資運用2.6\n\n12\n00:04:01,892 --> 00:04:12,263\n照理說是這樣子所以我剛剛一開始才提到就是說必須要有長波用那有長波用就得付利息啊你的利息就不能低於現在外匯城裡的投資運用的報酬2.6%\n\n13\n00:04:14,515 --> 00:04:40,543\n這個是我們以後在思考這種委外操作的時候我們有一個基本的標準那是不是適用在這個未來的國家主權之際我再提一次就是未來那個必須要成立專法不能求人兼裁判必須要有專責的主管機關如何不能無常撥用而且必須遵守聖地牙格的原則那如何防弊的部分我覺得也是整個央行要對外交代清楚好我時間先暫停\n\n14\n00:04:42,424 --> 00:04:46,328\n財化法的實施日期我們公告日期到底是幾月幾號哪一年什麼時候\n\n15\n00:05:04,025 --> 00:05:18,281\n這次修法通過的時間我記得是去年三讀通過後來總統公佈實施的日期修正實施的日期是什麼時候開始3月吧3月好那我就跟你講答案是114年的3月21號是今年對好是今年那\n\n16\n00:05:24,287 --> 00:05:39,312\n當時我記得卓榮泰院長提到復育3月再提出復育的時候報告也寫得很清楚他當時說公佈實施日期認為沒有準備的時間作為復育的理由所以很明確實施日期就是3月21號114年那部長我要提醒你就是法律的解釋\n\n17\n00:05:45,074 --> 00:06:04,867\n千萬不要當作政治工具如果當時才化法我們當時有寫一條就是說我們對於地方的補助不得低於前一年當時那個才化法有寫一個但書我不應該講但書裡面條文有寫得很清楚對於地方補助不能低於前一年\n\n18\n00:06:05,487 --> 00:06:17,613\n所以如果我們公告日期不是如果確定公告日期從當時的文字包括卓院長夫妻的理由都是公告日期都是114年3月21號所以他的基期就是前一年113年所以地方的補助應該是回歸到用113年來去做基期\n\n19\n00:06:29,359 --> 00:06:49,792\n所以這個部分我必須要提醒你們的所以未來在編列一般補助款的時候就不能隨便去做調整這是依法一般性補助款的編列是在主計總署我知道我知道但是我只是提醒你我只是提醒你們跟主計總署主計總署今天有來嗎\n\n20\n00:06:51,493 --> 00:07:04,240\n今天沒有主席總署我只是提醒你們這件事情法律上文字寫得很清楚而且有入法就是不得低於前一年時間先暫停部長你請回我請彭主委\n\n21\n00:07:09,631 --> 00:07:30,439\n主委因為時間一直在跑我今天議題非常多我另外一個就是我接受到陳情的有關於IPO的責任額我們目前ETF市場爆出IPO之亂那也引起很多音樂園也好寫了很多檢舉信函要終結IPO的暴力制度\n\n22\n00:07:32,620 --> 00:07:51,027\n主委你對於這件事情因為我知道幾個券商其實都對於內部的音樂園有給一些責任而的壓力那對於定責任而這件事情你的看法到底如何何不何什麼樣是一個合理的做法那我們如何去做一些調整或改善\n\n23\n00:07:52,067 --> 00:08:07,634\n報告委員,我想在所有的金融機構各行各業都一樣所有的業務單位定有責任額是非常普遍而且是非常常見的現象但責任額合不合理這件事情才是它的關鍵\n\n24\n00:08:09,454 --> 00:08:35,591\n我想這部分金融機構是受高度監禮行業我們收到的檢舉信以後我們也非常重視我們在第一時間在我們的業務會議上我們就討論過這件事情我們責成我們相關的各個業務局趕快去了解這個狀況有沒有涉及到一些勞政法規的違反還有就是我們講我們在有沒有做這樣會促進不當的所謂的銷售我們正在了解請他們再匯報這個想法你也會訂一個合理的標準出來\n\n25\n00:08:36,071 --> 00:08:54,275\n這個是牽涉到各個公司各自的營運但是我剛才講就是說責任的這件事情並不是新的東西我想大家都知道我理解各行各業他總是會定一個目標嘛KPI嘛但是怎麼樣因為我必須要提出說像去年00940一窩蜂的搶購我的意思就是說東西產品體質是好的是健康的\n\n26\n00:08:58,436 --> 00:09:23,330\n大家看得清清楚楚自然大家都會去買所以怎麼樣是一個合理的責任額那特別是我們現在整個金融產業面臨很多國際性的挑戰那這些營業員又要賣國內外的期貨又有相關的保險又有海外的債券要去做處理所以其實身心壓力也都蠻大的怎麼樣是一個健康的市場健康的工作環境\n\n27\n00:09:25,872 --> 00:09:26,633\n我們會盡快的來處理這件事情\n\n28\n00:09:42,364 --> 00:09:55,556\n所以會訂出一個比較合理的管控辦其實這個問題是非常每家公司的制度不一樣但是我們會先請相關的工會先用一個自律的方式去了解這件事情然後再訂出一個合理的規範\n\n29\n00:09:56,411 --> 00:10:22,183\n好謝謝主委我第二個問題我要請問一下就是行員挪用前一陣子有何故富邦金凱基銀行人員挪用客戶款項的這些問題那過去黃天牧黃主委他有過裁罰那我們最近這幾次我看到只有做糾正那糾正這個處分會不會太微不足道或者是我們有沒有其他的管控的辦法去加強\n\n30\n00:10:23,263 --> 00:10:50,620\n这些金融机构的内控的机制你有什么样的做法谢谢委员刚好也给我个机会来说明这件事情其实刚才举的说其实我们在过去历任组委其实对于我们所谓的挪用这样的一个事情其实都有不同的处理也都有采取非常多纠正的案例这个倒不是采取什么方式最重要我们的银行法的规定我们本来建制有三道机制\n\n31\n00:10:51,320 --> 00:11:08,639\n如果銀行在自己在第一到第二到就主動發現了這件事情那這是我們本來建立這個內控制度最重要的我們不會因為這樣而去處罰他而且他已經確實的去防止代表他的內控機制是穩健的我想立正主委的標準都一樣所以你個人覺得糾正就夠了不是\n\n32\n00:11:09,199 --> 00:11:37,228\n就是這個東西但是我跟委員報告如果說今天是已經穿透了三道防線比如說客戶來檢舉才知道像比如說很多人說這個案子為什麼過去罰得重這些是銀行他自己渾然不知到客戶發覺我的短掃的時候才來那當然即便你主動通報我照樣一樣是要處罰這我想這法上非常的明確只是假設把一個例子不當的比較我覺得不是很好我想我們都是依法辦理\n\n33\n00:11:38,151 --> 00:12:01,897\n我理解依法辦理但是未來如何不再有類似的狀況發生你這個機制只有糾正到底夠不夠我尊重我尊重因為每個人做法不一樣我們是要達到最好的內控不再發生類似的狀況發生所以我想要多去再做進步的事我們一向就是我們其實定規定是行其無形不是因為就是說我們會區分各種不同的樣態\n\n34\n00:12:03,337 --> 00:12:25,135\n對一個已經善盡自我管控的銀行這種微小的措施要主動舉報我們當然是鼓勵這個比如說他們要所以你可以用很多不同的彈性就對了沒有這個本來法規就有很明確的規定不能用最終的結果說這個叫做糾正叫輕這個叫罰叫重其實如果仔細研究案情都是不一樣的好謝謝主委謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝李委員的質詢下面請周委員質詢總經理委員請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n269\t27797\t我就直接就我的議題我想在總質詢的時候我曾經也跟卓院長討論過成立主權基金那果然在520這一天昨天賴總統就特別提到主權基金的問題那我當時我在總質詢的時候我有特別提到就是說到底評估報告什麼時候會出來整個央行的評估報告到底什麼時候可以給我你們當時有承諾要給我評估報告是一個月還是三個月\n29158\t32561\t昨天賴總統講到主權基金這件事情我個人是支持的\n43601\t62986\t但是賴總統在講這件事情都沒跟你們都沒有一個評估報告出來嗎跟總統報告嗎這個對國家的正面或者是我們要我們要如何做我想你們應該還是有個整理評估報告吧那個報告委員從歷任的政府總統總評會沒有評估報告就丟出來好我希望我希望\n63786\t87317\t三個月之內把評估報告完整詳細的評估報告給我因為這個主權基金我相信在國外許多國家其實運作的都非常的好但是如何維持他獨立性跟他的防弊性我覺得是要是國人大家都關注的那另外目前我們有沒有預計賴總統昨天說了我們何時會成立是一年兩年還是有沒有時間表\n90141\t107532\t這個還是要由那個整個行政院在討論才能確定因為還要涉及到修法這些問題專法的設置這樣子好那您個人認為到底未來這個基金的部分是來自外匯群體還是四大基金我想那個楊總在5月8號的報告已經很明確的點出我們的對這個問題的看法\n113260\t128624\t內容是什麼基本上它有三種方式財政部的發債財政部撥款或者是財政部出資那這是我們可以看到我們參考主要參考新加坡也不會動到外匯權利也不會動到四大基金也不會有減持美債的問題都沒有這是細節的問題這不是細節的問題因為四大基金有它的法源資金的來源很重要\n142962\t167576\t我當時在總質詢的時候我特別有提到對於主權基金這件事情未來一定要成立專法第二政府不能求援兼裁判第三要符合遵守聖利亞哥原則也就是說資金來源它必須由整個政府統籌規劃而且不能無常撥用這些大原則只是讓基金運作維持它的獨立性\n168456\t185655\t但是國人更關注從這兩天媒體更關注的就是說基金主權基金在很多國家運作的很好持正面但是如何幫國人擔心的是如何防弊包括未來會不會變成第二個達政案或者是未來如何防弊它有可能變成黨權基金\n188939\t209331\t這個都是要跟國人交代清楚的所以我期望在這個專案報告裡面就是說你們評估報告裡面這些事情必須要交代清楚所以如果你剛才講資金來源那未來所以完全不會由外匯存底這邊來去做資金的來源之一嗎不會\n210611\t214094\t這個是可以考慮的那副總裁我再問一個問題它的利率會不會低於未來外匯全體投資運用的報酬2.6%\n223032\t239739\t因為主權基金它的投資的報酬率偏高但是它的也面臨很大的風險這跟外匯存體的操作是不一樣所以我提的是說央行有償借用的部分不得低於央行現在外匯存體的投資運用2.6\n241892\t252263\t照理說是這樣子所以我剛剛一開始才提到就是說必須要有長波用那有長波用就得付利息啊你的利息就不能低於現在外匯城裡的投資運用的報酬2.6%\n254515\t280543\t這個是我們以後在思考這種委外操作的時候我們有一個基本的標準那是不是適用在這個未來的國家主權之際我再提一次就是未來那個必須要成立專法不能求人兼裁判必須要有專責的主管機關如何不能無常撥用而且必須遵守聖地牙格的原則那如何防弊的部分我覺得也是整個央行要對外交代清楚好我時間先暫停\n282424\t286328\t財化法的實施日期我們公告日期到底是幾月幾號哪一年什麼時候\n304025\t318281\t這次修法通過的時間我記得是去年三讀通過後來總統公佈實施的日期修正實施的日期是什麼時候開始3月吧3月好那我就跟你講答案是114年的3月21號是今年對好是今年那\n324287\t339312\t當時我記得卓榮泰院長提到復育3月再提出復育的時候報告也寫得很清楚他當時說公佈實施日期認為沒有準備的時間作為復育的理由所以很明確實施日期就是3月21號114年那部長我要提醒你就是法律的解釋\n345074\t364867\t千萬不要當作政治工具如果當時才化法我們當時有寫一條就是說我們對於地方的補助不得低於前一年當時那個才化法有寫一個但書我不應該講但書裡面條文有寫得很清楚對於地方補助不能低於前一年\n365487\t377613\t所以如果我們公告日期不是如果確定公告日期從當時的文字包括卓院長夫妻的理由都是公告日期都是114年3月21號所以他的基期就是前一年113年所以地方的補助應該是回歸到用113年來去做基期\n389359\t409792\t所以這個部分我必須要提醒你們的所以未來在編列一般補助款的時候就不能隨便去做調整這是依法一般性補助款的編列是在主計總署我知道我知道但是我只是提醒你我只是提醒你們跟主計總署主計總署今天有來嗎\n411493\t424240\t今天沒有主席總署我只是提醒你們這件事情法律上文字寫得很清楚而且有入法就是不得低於前一年時間先暫停部長你請回我請彭主委\n429631\t450439\t主委因為時間一直在跑我今天議題非常多我另外一個就是我接受到陳情的有關於IPO的責任額我們目前ETF市場爆出IPO之亂那也引起很多音樂園也好寫了很多檢舉信函要終結IPO的暴力制度\n452620\t471027\t主委你對於這件事情因為我知道幾個券商其實都對於內部的音樂園有給一些責任而的壓力那對於定責任而這件事情你的看法到底如何何不何什麼樣是一個合理的做法那我們如何去做一些調整或改善\n472067\t487634\t報告委員,我想在所有的金融機構各行各業都一樣所有的業務單位定有責任額是非常普遍而且是非常常見的現象但責任額合不合理這件事情才是它的關鍵\n489454\t515591\t我想這部分金融機構是受高度監禮行業我們收到的檢舉信以後我們也非常重視我們在第一時間在我們的業務會議上我們就討論過這件事情我們責成我們相關的各個業務局趕快去了解這個狀況有沒有涉及到一些勞政法規的違反還有就是我們講我們在有沒有做這樣會促進不當的所謂的銷售我們正在了解請他們再匯報這個想法你也會訂一個合理的標準出來\n516071\t534275\t這個是牽涉到各個公司各自的營運但是我剛才講就是說責任的這件事情並不是新的東西我想大家都知道我理解各行各業他總是會定一個目標嘛KPI嘛但是怎麼樣因為我必須要提出說像去年00940一窩蜂的搶購我的意思就是說東西產品體質是好的是健康的\n538436\t563330\t大家看得清清楚楚自然大家都會去買所以怎麼樣是一個合理的責任額那特別是我們現在整個金融產業面臨很多國際性的挑戰那這些營業員又要賣國內外的期貨又有相關的保險又有海外的債券要去做處理所以其實身心壓力也都蠻大的怎麼樣是一個健康的市場健康的工作環境\n565872\t566633\t我們會盡快的來處理這件事情\n582364\t595556\t所以會訂出一個比較合理的管控辦其實這個問題是非常每家公司的制度不一樣但是我們會先請相關的工會先用一個自律的方式去了解這件事情然後再訂出一個合理的規範\n596411\t622183\t好 謝謝主委我第二個問題我要請問一下就是行員挪用前一陣子有何故富邦金 凱基銀行人員挪用客戶款項的這些問題那過去黃天牧黃主委他有過裁罰那我們最近這幾次我看到只有做糾正那糾正這個處分會不會太微不足道或者是我們有沒有其他的管控的辦法去加強\n623263\t650620\t这些金融机构的内控的机制你有什么样的做法谢谢委员刚好也给我个机会来说明这件事情其实刚才举的说其实我们在过去历任组委其实对于我们所谓的挪用这样的一个事情其实都有不同的处理也都有采取非常多纠正的案例这个倒不是采取什么方式最重要我们的银行法的规定我们本来建制有三道机制\n651320\t668639\t如果銀行在自己在第一到第二到就主動發現了這件事情那這是我們本來建立這個內控制度最重要的我們不會因為這樣而去處罰他而且他已經確實的去防止代表他的內控機制是穩健的我想立正主委的標準都一樣所以你個人覺得糾正就夠了不是\n669199\t697228\t就是這個東西但是我跟委員報告如果說今天是已經穿透了三道防線比如說客戶來檢舉才知道像比如說很多人說這個案子為什麼過去罰得重這些是銀行他自己渾然不知到客戶發覺我的短掃的時候才來那當然即便你主動通報我照樣一樣是要處罰這我想這法上非常的明確只是假設把一個例子不當的比較我覺得不是很好我想我們都是依法辦理\n698151\t721897\t我理解依法辦理但是未來如何不再有類似的狀況發生你這個機制只有糾正到底夠不夠我尊重我尊重因為每個人做法不一樣我們是要達到最好的內控不再發生類似的狀況發生所以我想要多去再做進步的事我們一向就是我們其實定規定是行其無形不是因為就是說我們會區分各種不同的樣態\n723337\t745135\t對一個已經善盡自我管控的銀行這種微小的措施要主動舉報我們當然是鼓勵這個 比如說他們要所以你可以用很多不同的彈性就對了沒有 這個本來法規就有很明確的規定不能用最終的結果說這個叫做糾正叫輕 這個叫罰叫重其實如果仔細研究案情都是不一樣的好 謝謝主委謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝李委員的質詢下面請周委員質詢總經理委員請\n755128\t758780\t響鐘\n","txt":"我就直接就我的議題我想在總質詢的時候我曾經也跟卓院長討論過成立主權基金那果然在520這一天昨天賴總統就特別提到主權基金的問題那我當時我在總質詢的時候我有特別提到就是說到底評估報告什麼時候會出來整個央行的評估報告到底什麼時候可以給我你們當時有承諾要給我評估報告是一個月還是三個月\n昨天賴總統講到主權基金這件事情我個人是支持的\n但是賴總統在講這件事情都沒跟你們都沒有一個評估報告出來嗎跟總統報告嗎這個對國家的正面或者是我們要我們要如何做我想你們應該還是有個整理評估報告吧那個報告委員從歷任的政府總統總評會沒有評估報告就丟出來好我希望我希望\n三個月之內把評估報告完整詳細的評估報告給我因為這個主權基金我相信在國外許多國家其實運作的都非常的好但是如何維持他獨立性跟他的防弊性我覺得是要是國人大家都關注的那另外目前我們有沒有預計賴總統昨天說了我們何時會成立是一年兩年還是有沒有時間表\n這個還是要由那個整個行政院在討論才能確定因為還要涉及到修法這些問題專法的設置這樣子好那您個人認為到底未來這個基金的部分是來自外匯群體還是四大基金我想那個楊總在5月8號的報告已經很明確的點出我們的對這個問題的看法\n內容是什麼基本上它有三種方式財政部的發債財政部撥款或者是財政部出資那這是我們可以看到我們參考主要參考新加坡也不會動到外匯權利也不會動到四大基金也不會有減持美債的問題都沒有這是細節的問題這不是細節的問題因為四大基金有它的法源資金的來源很重要\n我當時在總質詢的時候我特別有提到對於主權基金這件事情未來一定要成立專法第二政府不能求援兼裁判第三要符合遵守聖利亞哥原則也就是說資金來源它必須由整個政府統籌規劃而且不能無常撥用這些大原則只是讓基金運作維持它的獨立性\n但是國人更關注從這兩天媒體更關注的就是說基金主權基金在很多國家運作的很好持正面但是如何幫國人擔心的是如何防弊包括未來會不會變成第二個達政案或者是未來如何防弊它有可能變成黨權基金\n這個都是要跟國人交代清楚的所以我期望在這個專案報告裡面就是說你們評估報告裡面這些事情必須要交代清楚所以如果你剛才講資金來源那未來所以完全不會由外匯存底這邊來去做資金的來源之一嗎不會\n這個是可以考慮的那副總裁我再問一個問題它的利率會不會低於未來外匯全體投資運用的報酬2.6%\n因為主權基金它的投資的報酬率偏高但是它的也面臨很大的風險這跟外匯存體的操作是不一樣所以我提的是說央行有償借用的部分不得低於央行現在外匯存體的投資運用2.6\n照理說是這樣子所以我剛剛一開始才提到就是說必須要有長波用那有長波用就得付利息啊你的利息就不能低於現在外匯城裡的投資運用的報酬2.6%\n這個是我們以後在思考這種委外操作的時候我們有一個基本的標準那是不是適用在這個未來的國家主權之際我再提一次就是未來那個必須要成立專法不能求人兼裁判必須要有專責的主管機關如何不能無常撥用而且必須遵守聖地牙格的原則那如何防弊的部分我覺得也是整個央行要對外交代清楚好我時間先暫停\n財化法的實施日期我們公告日期到底是幾月幾號哪一年什麼時候\n這次修法通過的時間我記得是去年三讀通過後來總統公佈實施的日期修正實施的日期是什麼時候開始3月吧3月好那我就跟你講答案是114年的3月21號是今年對好是今年那\n當時我記得卓榮泰院長提到復育3月再提出復育的時候報告也寫得很清楚他當時說公佈實施日期認為沒有準備的時間作為復育的理由所以很明確實施日期就是3月21號114年那部長我要提醒你就是法律的解釋\n千萬不要當作政治工具如果當時才化法我們當時有寫一條就是說我們對於地方的補助不得低於前一年當時那個才化法有寫一個但書我不應該講但書裡面條文有寫得很清楚對於地方補助不能低於前一年\n所以如果我們公告日期不是如果確定公告日期從當時的文字包括卓院長夫妻的理由都是公告日期都是114年3月21號所以他的基期就是前一年113年所以地方的補助應該是回歸到用113年來去做基期\n所以這個部分我必須要提醒你們的所以未來在編列一般補助款的時候就不能隨便去做調整這是依法一般性補助款的編列是在主計總署我知道我知道但是我只是提醒你我只是提醒你們跟主計總署主計總署今天有來嗎\n今天沒有主席總署我只是提醒你們這件事情法律上文字寫得很清楚而且有入法就是不得低於前一年時間先暫停部長你請回我請彭主委\n主委因為時間一直在跑我今天議題非常多我另外一個就是我接受到陳情的有關於IPO的責任額我們目前ETF市場爆出IPO之亂那也引起很多音樂園也好寫了很多檢舉信函要終結IPO的暴力制度\n主委你對於這件事情因為我知道幾個券商其實都對於內部的音樂園有給一些責任而的壓力那對於定責任而這件事情你的看法到底如何何不何什麼樣是一個合理的做法那我們如何去做一些調整或改善\n報告委員,我想在所有的金融機構各行各業都一樣所有的業務單位定有責任額是非常普遍而且是非常常見的現象但責任額合不合理這件事情才是它的關鍵\n我想這部分金融機構是受高度監禮行業我們收到的檢舉信以後我們也非常重視我們在第一時間在我們的業務會議上我們就討論過這件事情我們責成我們相關的各個業務局趕快去了解這個狀況有沒有涉及到一些勞政法規的違反還有就是我們講我們在有沒有做這樣會促進不當的所謂的銷售我們正在了解請他們再匯報這個想法你也會訂一個合理的標準出來\n這個是牽涉到各個公司各自的營運但是我剛才講就是說責任的這件事情並不是新的東西我想大家都知道我理解各行各業他總是會定一個目標嘛KPI嘛但是怎麼樣因為我必須要提出說像去年00940一窩蜂的搶購我的意思就是說東西產品體質是好的是健康的\n大家看得清清楚楚自然大家都會去買所以怎麼樣是一個合理的責任額那特別是我們現在整個金融產業面臨很多國際性的挑戰那這些營業員又要賣國內外的期貨又有相關的保險又有海外的債券要去做處理所以其實身心壓力也都蠻大的怎麼樣是一個健康的市場健康的工作環境\n我們會盡快的來處理這件事情\n所以會訂出一個比較合理的管控辦其實這個問題是非常每家公司的制度不一樣但是我們會先請相關的工會先用一個自律的方式去了解這件事情然後再訂出一個合理的規範\n好 謝謝主委我第二個問題我要請問一下就是行員挪用前一陣子有何故富邦金 凱基銀行人員挪用客戶款項的這些問題那過去黃天牧黃主委他有過裁罰那我們最近這幾次我看到只有做糾正那糾正這個處分會不會太微不足道或者是我們有沒有其他的管控的辦法去加強\n这些金融机构的内控的机制你有什么样的做法谢谢委员刚好也给我个机会来说明这件事情其实刚才举的说其实我们在过去历任组委其实对于我们所谓的挪用这样的一个事情其实都有不同的处理也都有采取非常多纠正的案例这个倒不是采取什么方式最重要我们的银行法的规定我们本来建制有三道机制\n如果銀行在自己在第一到第二到就主動發現了這件事情那這是我們本來建立這個內控制度最重要的我們不會因為這樣而去處罰他而且他已經確實的去防止代表他的內控機制是穩健的我想立正主委的標準都一樣所以你個人覺得糾正就夠了不是\n就是這個東西但是我跟委員報告如果說今天是已經穿透了三道防線比如說客戶來檢舉才知道像比如說很多人說這個案子為什麼過去罰得重這些是銀行他自己渾然不知到客戶發覺我的短掃的時候才來那當然即便你主動通報我照樣一樣是要處罰這我想這法上非常的明確只是假設把一個例子不當的比較我覺得不是很好我想我們都是依法辦理\n我理解依法辦理但是未來如何不再有類似的狀況發生你這個機制只有糾正到底夠不夠我尊重我尊重因為每個人做法不一樣我們是要達到最好的內控不再發生類似的狀況發生所以我想要多去再做進步的事我們一向就是我們其實定規定是行其無形不是因為就是說我們會區分各種不同的樣態\n對一個已經善盡自我管控的銀行這種微小的措施要主動舉報我們當然是鼓勵這個 比如說他們要所以你可以用很多不同的彈性就對了沒有 這個本來法規就有很明確的規定不能用最終的結果說這個叫做糾正叫輕 這個叫罰叫重其實如果仔細研究案情都是不一樣的好 謝謝主委謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝李委員的質詢下面請周委員質詢總經理委員請\n響鐘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.269 --> 00:27.797\n我就直接就我的議題我想在總質詢的時候我曾經也跟卓院長討論過成立主權基金那果然在520這一天昨天賴總統就特別提到主權基金的問題那我當時我在總質詢的時候我有特別提到就是說到底評估報告什麼時候會出來整個央行的評估報告到底什麼時候可以給我你們當時有承諾要給我評估報告是一個月還是三個月\n\n00:29.158 --> 00:32.561\n昨天賴總統講到主權基金這件事情我個人是支持的\n\n00:43.601 --> 01:02.986\n但是賴總統在講這件事情都沒跟你們都沒有一個評估報告出來嗎跟總統報告嗎這個對國家的正面或者是我們要我們要如何做我想你們應該還是有個整理評估報告吧那個報告委員從歷任的政府總統總評會沒有評估報告就丟出來好我希望我希望\n\n01:03.786 --> 01:27.317\n三個月之內把評估報告完整詳細的評估報告給我因為這個主權基金我相信在國外許多國家其實運作的都非常的好但是如何維持他獨立性跟他的防弊性我覺得是要是國人大家都關注的那另外目前我們有沒有預計賴總統昨天說了我們何時會成立是一年兩年還是有沒有時間表\n\n01:30.141 --> 01:47.532\n這個還是要由那個整個行政院在討論才能確定因為還要涉及到修法這些問題專法的設置這樣子好那您個人認為到底未來這個基金的部分是來自外匯群體還是四大基金我想那個楊總在5月8號的報告已經很明確的點出我們的對這個問題的看法\n\n01:53.260 --> 02:08.624\n內容是什麼基本上它有三種方式財政部的發債財政部撥款或者是財政部出資那這是我們可以看到我們參考主要參考新加坡也不會動到外匯權利也不會動到四大基金也不會有減持美債的問題都沒有這是細節的問題這不是細節的問題因為四大基金有它的法源資金的來源很重要\n\n02:22.962 --> 02:47.576\n我當時在總質詢的時候我特別有提到對於主權基金這件事情未來一定要成立專法第二政府不能求援兼裁判第三要符合遵守聖利亞哥原則也就是說資金來源它必須由整個政府統籌規劃而且不能無常撥用這些大原則只是讓基金運作維持它的獨立性\n\n02:48.456 --> 03:05.655\n但是國人更關注從這兩天媒體更關注的就是說基金主權基金在很多國家運作的很好持正面但是如何幫國人擔心的是如何防弊包括未來會不會變成第二個達政案或者是未來如何防弊它有可能變成黨權基金\n\n03:08.939 --> 03:29.331\n這個都是要跟國人交代清楚的所以我期望在這個專案報告裡面就是說你們評估報告裡面這些事情必須要交代清楚所以如果你剛才講資金來源那未來所以完全不會由外匯存底這邊來去做資金的來源之一嗎不會\n\n03:30.611 --> 03:34.094\n這個是可以考慮的那副總裁我再問一個問題它的利率會不會低於未來外匯全體投資運用的報酬2.6%\n\n03:43.032 --> 03:59.739\n因為主權基金它的投資的報酬率偏高但是它的也面臨很大的風險這跟外匯存體的操作是不一樣所以我提的是說央行有償借用的部分不得低於央行現在外匯存體的投資運用2.6\n\n04:01.892 --> 04:12.263\n照理說是這樣子所以我剛剛一開始才提到就是說必須要有長波用那有長波用就得付利息啊你的利息就不能低於現在外匯城裡的投資運用的報酬2.6%\n\n04:14.515 --> 04:40.543\n這個是我們以後在思考這種委外操作的時候我們有一個基本的標準那是不是適用在這個未來的國家主權之際我再提一次就是未來那個必須要成立專法不能求人兼裁判必須要有專責的主管機關如何不能無常撥用而且必須遵守聖地牙格的原則那如何防弊的部分我覺得也是整個央行要對外交代清楚好我時間先暫停\n\n04:42.424 --> 04:46.328\n財化法的實施日期我們公告日期到底是幾月幾號哪一年什麼時候\n\n05:04.025 --> 05:18.281\n這次修法通過的時間我記得是去年三讀通過後來總統公佈實施的日期修正實施的日期是什麼時候開始3月吧3月好那我就跟你講答案是114年的3月21號是今年對好是今年那\n\n05:24.287 --> 05:39.312\n當時我記得卓榮泰院長提到復育3月再提出復育的時候報告也寫得很清楚他當時說公佈實施日期認為沒有準備的時間作為復育的理由所以很明確實施日期就是3月21號114年那部長我要提醒你就是法律的解釋\n\n05:45.074 --> 06:04.867\n千萬不要當作政治工具如果當時才化法我們當時有寫一條就是說我們對於地方的補助不得低於前一年當時那個才化法有寫一個但書我不應該講但書裡面條文有寫得很清楚對於地方補助不能低於前一年\n\n06:05.487 --> 06:17.613\n所以如果我們公告日期不是如果確定公告日期從當時的文字包括卓院長夫妻的理由都是公告日期都是114年3月21號所以他的基期就是前一年113年所以地方的補助應該是回歸到用113年來去做基期\n\n06:29.359 --> 06:49.792\n所以這個部分我必須要提醒你們的所以未來在編列一般補助款的時候就不能隨便去做調整這是依法一般性補助款的編列是在主計總署我知道我知道但是我只是提醒你我只是提醒你們跟主計總署主計總署今天有來嗎\n\n06:51.493 --> 07:04.240\n今天沒有主席總署我只是提醒你們這件事情法律上文字寫得很清楚而且有入法就是不得低於前一年時間先暫停部長你請回我請彭主委\n\n07:09.631 --> 07:30.439\n主委因為時間一直在跑我今天議題非常多我另外一個就是我接受到陳情的有關於IPO的責任額我們目前ETF市場爆出IPO之亂那也引起很多音樂園也好寫了很多檢舉信函要終結IPO的暴力制度\n\n07:32.620 --> 07:51.027\n主委你對於這件事情因為我知道幾個券商其實都對於內部的音樂園有給一些責任而的壓力那對於定責任而這件事情你的看法到底如何何不何什麼樣是一個合理的做法那我們如何去做一些調整或改善\n\n07:52.067 --> 08:07.634\n報告委員,我想在所有的金融機構各行各業都一樣所有的業務單位定有責任額是非常普遍而且是非常常見的現象但責任額合不合理這件事情才是它的關鍵\n\n08:09.454 --> 08:35.591\n我想這部分金融機構是受高度監禮行業我們收到的檢舉信以後我們也非常重視我們在第一時間在我們的業務會議上我們就討論過這件事情我們責成我們相關的各個業務局趕快去了解這個狀況有沒有涉及到一些勞政法規的違反還有就是我們講我們在有沒有做這樣會促進不當的所謂的銷售我們正在了解請他們再匯報這個想法你也會訂一個合理的標準出來\n\n08:36.071 --> 08:54.275\n這個是牽涉到各個公司各自的營運但是我剛才講就是說責任的這件事情並不是新的東西我想大家都知道我理解各行各業他總是會定一個目標嘛KPI嘛但是怎麼樣因為我必須要提出說像去年00940一窩蜂的搶購我的意思就是說東西產品體質是好的是健康的\n\n08:58.436 --> 09:23.330\n大家看得清清楚楚自然大家都會去買所以怎麼樣是一個合理的責任額那特別是我們現在整個金融產業面臨很多國際性的挑戰那這些營業員又要賣國內外的期貨又有相關的保險又有海外的債券要去做處理所以其實身心壓力也都蠻大的怎麼樣是一個健康的市場健康的工作環境\n\n09:25.872 --> 09:26.633\n我們會盡快的來處理這件事情\n\n09:42.364 --> 09:55.556\n所以會訂出一個比較合理的管控辦其實這個問題是非常每家公司的制度不一樣但是我們會先請相關的工會先用一個自律的方式去了解這件事情然後再訂出一個合理的規範\n\n09:56.411 --> 10:22.183\n好謝謝主委我第二個問題我要請問一下就是行員挪用前一陣子有何故富邦金凱基銀行人員挪用客戶款項的這些問題那過去黃天牧黃主委他有過裁罰那我們最近這幾次我看到只有做糾正那糾正這個處分會不會太微不足道或者是我們有沒有其他的管控的辦法去加強\n\n10:23.263 --> 10:50.620\n这些金融机构的内控的机制你有什么样的做法谢谢委员刚好也给我个机会来说明这件事情其实刚才举的说其实我们在过去历任组委其实对于我们所谓的挪用这样的一个事情其实都有不同的处理也都有采取非常多纠正的案例这个倒不是采取什么方式最重要我们的银行法的规定我们本来建制有三道机制\n\n10:51.320 --> 11:08.639\n如果銀行在自己在第一到第二到就主動發現了這件事情那這是我們本來建立這個內控制度最重要的我們不會因為這樣而去處罰他而且他已經確實的去防止代表他的內控機制是穩健的我想立正主委的標準都一樣所以你個人覺得糾正就夠了不是\n\n11:09.199 --> 11:37.228\n就是這個東西但是我跟委員報告如果說今天是已經穿透了三道防線比如說客戶來檢舉才知道像比如說很多人說這個案子為什麼過去罰得重這些是銀行他自己渾然不知到客戶發覺我的短掃的時候才來那當然即便你主動通報我照樣一樣是要處罰這我想這法上非常的明確只是假設把一個例子不當的比較我覺得不是很好我想我們都是依法辦理\n\n11:38.151 --> 12:01.897\n我理解依法辦理但是未來如何不再有類似的狀況發生你這個機制只有糾正到底夠不夠我尊重我尊重因為每個人做法不一樣我們是要達到最好的內控不再發生類似的狀況發生所以我想要多去再做進步的事我們一向就是我們其實定規定是行其無形不是因為就是說我們會區分各種不同的樣態\n\n12:03.337 --> 12:25.135\n對一個已經善盡自我管控的銀行這種微小的措施要主動舉報我們當然是鼓勵這個比如說他們要所以你可以用很多不同的彈性就對了沒有這個本來法規就有很明確的規定不能用最終的結果說這個叫做糾正叫輕這個叫罰叫重其實如果仔細研究案情都是不一樣的好謝謝主委謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝李委員的質詢下面請周委員質詢總經理委員請\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.269,"end":27.797,"text":"我就直接就我的議題我想在總質詢的時候我曾經也跟卓院長討論過成立主權基金那果然在520這一天昨天賴總統就特別提到主權基金的問題那我當時我在總質詢的時候我有特別提到就是說到底評估報告什麼時候會出來整個央行的評估報告到底什麼時候可以給我你們當時有承諾要給我評估報告是一個月還是三個月"},{"start":29.158,"end":32.561,"text":"昨天賴總統講到主權基金這件事情我個人是支持的"},{"start":43.601,"end":62.986,"text":"但是賴總統在講這件事情都沒跟你們都沒有一個評估報告出來嗎跟總統報告嗎這個對國家的正面或者是我們要我們要如何做我想你們應該還是有個整理評估報告吧那個報告委員從歷任的政府總統總評會沒有評估報告就丟出來好我希望我希望"},{"start":63.786,"end":87.317,"text":"三個月之內把評估報告完整詳細的評估報告給我因為這個主權基金我相信在國外許多國家其實運作的都非常的好但是如何維持他獨立性跟他的防弊性我覺得是要是國人大家都關注的那另外目前我們有沒有預計賴總統昨天說了我們何時會成立是一年兩年還是有沒有時間表"},{"start":90.141,"end":107.532,"text":"這個還是要由那個整個行政院在討論才能確定因為還要涉及到修法這些問題專法的設置這樣子好那您個人認為到底未來這個基金的部分是來自外匯群體還是四大基金我想那個楊總在5月8號的報告已經很明確的點出我們的對這個問題的看法"},{"start":113.26,"end":128.624,"text":"內容是什麼基本上它有三種方式財政部的發債財政部撥款或者是財政部出資那這是我們可以看到我們參考主要參考新加坡也不會動到外匯權利也不會動到四大基金也不會有減持美債的問題都沒有這是細節的問題這不是細節的問題因為四大基金有它的法源資金的來源很重要"},{"start":142.962,"end":167.576,"text":"我當時在總質詢的時候我特別有提到對於主權基金這件事情未來一定要成立專法第二政府不能求援兼裁判第三要符合遵守聖利亞哥原則也就是說資金來源它必須由整個政府統籌規劃而且不能無常撥用這些大原則只是讓基金運作維持它的獨立性"},{"start":168.456,"end":185.655,"text":"但是國人更關注從這兩天媒體更關注的就是說基金主權基金在很多國家運作的很好持正面但是如何幫國人擔心的是如何防弊包括未來會不會變成第二個達政案或者是未來如何防弊它有可能變成黨權基金"},{"start":188.939,"end":209.331,"text":"這個都是要跟國人交代清楚的所以我期望在這個專案報告裡面就是說你們評估報告裡面這些事情必須要交代清楚所以如果你剛才講資金來源那未來所以完全不會由外匯存底這邊來去做資金的來源之一嗎不會"},{"start":210.611,"end":214.094,"text":"這個是可以考慮的那副總裁我再問一個問題它的利率會不會低於未來外匯全體投資運用的報酬2.6%"},{"start":223.032,"end":239.739,"text":"因為主權基金它的投資的報酬率偏高但是它的也面臨很大的風險這跟外匯存體的操作是不一樣所以我提的是說央行有償借用的部分不得低於央行現在外匯存體的投資運用2.6"},{"start":241.892,"end":252.263,"text":"照理說是這樣子所以我剛剛一開始才提到就是說必須要有長波用那有長波用就得付利息啊你的利息就不能低於現在外匯城裡的投資運用的報酬2.6%"},{"start":254.515,"end":280.543,"text":"這個是我們以後在思考這種委外操作的時候我們有一個基本的標準那是不是適用在這個未來的國家主權之際我再提一次就是未來那個必須要成立專法不能求人兼裁判必須要有專責的主管機關如何不能無常撥用而且必須遵守聖地牙格的原則那如何防弊的部分我覺得也是整個央行要對外交代清楚好我時間先暫停"},{"start":282.424,"end":286.328,"text":"財化法的實施日期我們公告日期到底是幾月幾號哪一年什麼時候"},{"start":304.025,"end":318.281,"text":"這次修法通過的時間我記得是去年三讀通過後來總統公佈實施的日期修正實施的日期是什麼時候開始3月吧3月好那我就跟你講答案是114年的3月21號是今年對好是今年那"},{"start":324.287,"end":339.312,"text":"當時我記得卓榮泰院長提到復育3月再提出復育的時候報告也寫得很清楚他當時說公佈實施日期認為沒有準備的時間作為復育的理由所以很明確實施日期就是3月21號114年那部長我要提醒你就是法律的解釋"},{"start":345.074,"end":364.867,"text":"千萬不要當作政治工具如果當時才化法我們當時有寫一條就是說我們對於地方的補助不得低於前一年當時那個才化法有寫一個但書我不應該講但書裡面條文有寫得很清楚對於地方補助不能低於前一年"},{"start":365.487,"end":377.613,"text":"所以如果我們公告日期不是如果確定公告日期從當時的文字包括卓院長夫妻的理由都是公告日期都是114年3月21號所以他的基期就是前一年113年所以地方的補助應該是回歸到用113年來去做基期"},{"start":389.359,"end":409.792,"text":"所以這個部分我必須要提醒你們的所以未來在編列一般補助款的時候就不能隨便去做調整這是依法一般性補助款的編列是在主計總署我知道我知道但是我只是提醒你我只是提醒你們跟主計總署主計總署今天有來嗎"},{"start":411.493,"end":424.24,"text":"今天沒有主席總署我只是提醒你們這件事情法律上文字寫得很清楚而且有入法就是不得低於前一年時間先暫停部長你請回我請彭主委"},{"start":429.631,"end":450.439,"text":"主委因為時間一直在跑我今天議題非常多我另外一個就是我接受到陳情的有關於IPO的責任額我們目前ETF市場爆出IPO之亂那也引起很多音樂園也好寫了很多檢舉信函要終結IPO的暴力制度"},{"start":452.62,"end":471.027,"text":"主委你對於這件事情因為我知道幾個券商其實都對於內部的音樂園有給一些責任而的壓力那對於定責任而這件事情你的看法到底如何何不何什麼樣是一個合理的做法那我們如何去做一些調整或改善"},{"start":472.067,"end":487.634,"text":"報告委員,我想在所有的金融機構各行各業都一樣所有的業務單位定有責任額是非常普遍而且是非常常見的現象但責任額合不合理這件事情才是它的關鍵"},{"start":489.454,"end":515.591,"text":"我想這部分金融機構是受高度監禮行業我們收到的檢舉信以後我們也非常重視我們在第一時間在我們的業務會議上我們就討論過這件事情我們責成我們相關的各個業務局趕快去了解這個狀況有沒有涉及到一些勞政法規的違反還有就是我們講我們在有沒有做這樣會促進不當的所謂的銷售我們正在了解請他們再匯報這個想法你也會訂一個合理的標準出來"},{"start":516.071,"end":534.275,"text":"這個是牽涉到各個公司各自的營運但是我剛才講就是說責任的這件事情並不是新的東西我想大家都知道我理解各行各業他總是會定一個目標嘛KPI嘛但是怎麼樣因為我必須要提出說像去年00940一窩蜂的搶購我的意思就是說東西產品體質是好的是健康的"},{"start":538.436,"end":563.33,"text":"大家看得清清楚楚自然大家都會去買所以怎麼樣是一個合理的責任額那特別是我們現在整個金融產業面臨很多國際性的挑戰那這些營業員又要賣國內外的期貨又有相關的保險又有海外的債券要去做處理所以其實身心壓力也都蠻大的怎麼樣是一個健康的市場健康的工作環境"},{"start":565.872,"end":566.633,"text":"我們會盡快的來處理這件事情"},{"start":582.364,"end":595.556,"text":"所以會訂出一個比較合理的管控辦其實這個問題是非常每家公司的制度不一樣但是我們會先請相關的工會先用一個自律的方式去了解這件事情然後再訂出一個合理的規範"},{"start":596.411,"end":622.183,"text":"好 謝謝主委我第二個問題我要請問一下就是行員挪用前一陣子有何故富邦金 凱基銀行人員挪用客戶款項的這些問題那過去黃天牧黃主委他有過裁罰那我們最近這幾次我看到只有做糾正那糾正這個處分會不會太微不足道或者是我們有沒有其他的管控的辦法去加強"},{"start":623.263,"end":650.62,"text":"这些金融机构的内控的机制你有什么样的做法谢谢委员刚好也给我个机会来说明这件事情其实刚才举的说其实我们在过去历任组委其实对于我们所谓的挪用这样的一个事情其实都有不同的处理也都有采取非常多纠正的案例这个倒不是采取什么方式最重要我们的银行法的规定我们本来建制有三道机制"},{"start":651.32,"end":668.639,"text":"如果銀行在自己在第一到第二到就主動發現了這件事情那這是我們本來建立這個內控制度最重要的我們不會因為這樣而去處罰他而且他已經確實的去防止代表他的內控機制是穩健的我想立正主委的標準都一樣所以你個人覺得糾正就夠了不是"},{"start":669.199,"end":697.228,"text":"就是這個東西但是我跟委員報告如果說今天是已經穿透了三道防線比如說客戶來檢舉才知道像比如說很多人說這個案子為什麼過去罰得重這些是銀行他自己渾然不知到客戶發覺我的短掃的時候才來那當然即便你主動通報我照樣一樣是要處罰這我想這法上非常的明確只是假設把一個例子不當的比較我覺得不是很好我想我們都是依法辦理"},{"start":698.151,"end":721.897,"text":"我理解依法辦理但是未來如何不再有類似的狀況發生你這個機制只有糾正到底夠不夠我尊重我尊重因為每個人做法不一樣我們是要達到最好的內控不再發生類似的狀況發生所以我想要多去再做進步的事我們一向就是我們其實定規定是行其無形不是因為就是說我們會區分各種不同的樣態"},{"start":723.337,"end":745.135,"text":"對一個已經善盡自我管控的銀行這種微小的措施要主動舉報我們當然是鼓勵這個 比如說他們要所以你可以用很多不同的彈性就對了沒有 這個本來法規就有很明確的規定不能用最終的結果說這個叫做糾正叫輕 這個叫罰叫重其實如果仔細研究案情都是不一樣的好 謝謝主委謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝李委員的質詢下面請周委員質詢總經理委員請"},{"start":755.128,"end":758.78,"text":"響鐘"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":718,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（10時43分）謝謝召委，我是不是可以先請央行的副總裁？"],["主席：嚴副總裁請。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：副總裁，我就直接就我的議題請教，在總質詢的時候我也曾經跟卓院長討論過成立主權基金，果然在520這一天賴總統就有特別提到主權基金的問題。當時我在總質詢的時候有特別提到，到底評估報告什麼時候會出來？整個央行的評估報告到底什麼時候可以給我？你們當時有承諾要給我評估報告，是一個月還是三個月？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，這個我還是要回去問一下，我今天就會給您一個答案。"],["李委員彥秀：我再請問你，昨天賴總統講到主權基金這件事情，我個人是支持的，但是賴總統在講這件事情，你們都沒有一個評估報告出來跟總統報告嗎？這個對國家的正面效益，或者是我們要如何做，我想你們應該還是有個整體評估報告吧？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，從歷任的政府，我們對這個問題都有做交代。"],["李委員彥秀：總統不會沒有評估報告就丟出來！我希望三個月之內把完整詳細的評估報告給我，因為這個主權基金我相信，在國外許多國家其實都運作地非常好，但是如何維持它的獨立性跟防弊性，我覺得這是國人、大家都關注的。另外，賴總統昨天說了，我們何時會成立？是一年、兩年？有沒有時間表？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：這個還是要由整個行政院再討論才能確定，因為還涉及到修法、專法的設置這些問題。"],["李委員彥秀：好，您個人認為到底未來這個基金的部分是來自外匯存底，還是四大基金？從您的專業部分來看。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我想楊總裁在5月8號的報告已經很明確點出我們對這個問題的看法。"],["李委員彥秀：內容是什麼？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：基本上，它有三種方式，財政部發債、撥款，或者是出資，這是我們可以看到……"],["李委員彥秀：財政部出資……"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我們主要參考新加坡和韓國的經驗……"],["李委員彥秀：所以不會動到外匯存底，也不會動到四大基金？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：四大……"],["李委員彥秀：所以也不會有減持美債的問題？都沒有？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：這是細節的問題。"],["李委員彥秀：這不是細節的問題……"],["嚴副總裁宗大：因為四大基金有它的法源，它自己在運作中。"],["李委員彥秀：資源的來源很重要，我當時在總質詢的時候有特別提到，對於主權基金這件事情，未來一定要成立專法。第二，政府不能球員兼裁判。第三，要符合、遵守聖地牙哥原則，也就是說，資金來源必須要由整個政府統籌規劃，而且不能無償撥用，這些大原則只是讓基金運作能維持它的獨立性，而國人和這兩天媒體更關注的，就是主權基金在很多國家運作得很好，持正面態度，但是國人擔心的是如何防弊，包括未來會不會變成第二個鐽震案，或者是未來如何防止它變成黨權基金，這個都是要跟國人交代清楚的，所以我期望在專案報告裡面、你們的評估報告裡面，這些事情必須要交代清楚。所以你剛才講的資金來源，未來完全不會由外匯存底去做為資金的來源之一嗎？不會？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：這個是可以考慮的，因為在韓國的case……"],["李委員彥秀：副總裁，我再問一個問題，它的利率會不會低於未來外匯存底投資運用的報酬2.6%？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：主權基金投資的報酬率偏高，但是也面臨很大的風險，這跟外匯存底的操作是不一樣，因為我們講……"],["李委員彥秀：我提的是央行有償借用的部分不得低於央行現在外匯存底的投資運用2.6%，照理說是這樣子，所以我剛才一開始提到必須要有償撥用，而有償撥用就得付利息，你的利息就不能低於現在外匯存底投資運用的報酬2.6%啊！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：這個是我們以後在思考這種委外操作的時候，我們有一個基本的標準，是不是適用在未來的國家主權基金……"],["李委員彥秀：好，我再提一次，未來必須要成立專法，不能球員兼裁判，必須要有專責的主管機關，不能無償撥用，而且必須遵守聖地牙哥原則，至於如何防弊的部分，我覺得也是央行要對外交代清楚。好，時間先暫停，副總裁請回，我請莊部長。"],["主席：財政部莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：部長好。財劃法的實施日期，到底我們公告日期是幾月幾號？哪一年、什麼時候？"],["莊部長翠雲：這一次修法通過的時間，我記得是去年三讀通過，後來總統……"],["李委員彥秀：修正後公布實施的日期是什麼時候開始？"],["莊部長翠雲：3月吧！"],["李委員彥秀：好，我就跟你講答案，是114年的3月21號。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，今年3月。"],["李委員彥秀：對，是今年，當時我記得卓榮泰院長3月提出覆議時報告也寫得很清楚，他當時說公布施行日期沒有考量準備的時間，以此作為覆議的理由。所以很明確的，實施日期就是114年3月21號，部長，我要提醒你法律的解釋千萬不要當作政治工具，我們當時對財劃法有寫一個但書，我們對於地方的補助不得低於前一年……我不應該講但書，但裡面條文寫得很清楚，對於地方補助不能低於前一年，所以我們確定公告日期從當時的文字，包括卓院長覆議的理由，公告日期都是114年3月21號，所以它的基期就是前一年113年，地方的補助應該是回歸到用113年去做基期。所以這個部分我必須要提醒你們，未來在編列一般補助款的時候就不能隨便去做調整，這是依法……"],["莊部長翠雲：一般性補助款的編列是在主計總處。"],["李委員彥秀：我知道，但是我只是提醒你，我只是提醒你們跟主計總處，主計總處今天有來嗎？今天沒有主計總處，好，我只是提醒你們這件事情，法律上文字寫得很清楚而且有入法，就是不得低於前一年。好，時間先暫停，部長請回，我請彭主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["李委員彥秀：主委，因為時間一直在跑，而我今天議題非常多。另外一個問題就是我接受到陳情有關於IPO責任額，目前ETF市場爆出IPO之亂，也引起很多營業員寫了很多檢舉信函要「終結IPO制度暴力」。主委，你對於這件事情，因為我知道幾個券商其實都對於內部的營業員有給一些責任額的壓力，對於訂責任額這件事情，你的看法到底如何？什麼樣是一個合理的作法？我們如何去做一些調整或改善？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，在所有的金融機構，我想各行各業都一樣，所有的業務單位訂有責任額是非常普遍而且是非常常見的現象，但責任額合不合理這件事情才是關鍵。因為金融機構是受高度監理的行業，我們收到檢舉信以後也非常重視，我們在第一時間的業務會議上就討論過這件事情，也責成相關各個業務局趕快去了解這個狀況，看有沒有涉及到一些勞政法規的違反，還有這樣有沒有促進不當的銷售，我們在正在了解，請他們再匯報相關……"],["李委員彥秀：你也會訂一個合理的標準出來，是不是？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，這個是牽涉到各個公司各自的營運，但是我剛才講的，責任額這件事情並不是新的東西，我想大家都知道……"],["李委員彥秀：我理解各行各業總是會訂一個目標、KPI嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，當然。"],["李委員彥秀：但是怎麼樣……我必須要提像去年00940一窩蜂的搶購，我的意思是說東西產品體質是好的、是健康的，大家看得清清楚楚自然都會去買，所以怎麼樣是一個合理的責任額？特別我們現在整個金融產業面臨很多國際性的挑戰，這些營業員又要賣國內外的期貨，又有相關的保險，又有海外的債券要去做處理，所以其實身心壓力也都蠻大的……"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然。"],["李委員彥秀：怎麼樣是一個健康的市場？健康的工作環境？合理的責任額……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，所以我們已經去函他們相關的公會，請它好好去檢討這件事情，研議一個比較合理的共同遊戲規則。"],["李委員彥秀：什麼時候會給我答案？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們現在應該已經發文給他們了，在星期四吧！我們會儘快地來處理這件事情。"],["李委員彥秀：所以會訂出一個比較合理的管控辦法？"],["彭主任委員金隆：應該這樣講，其實這個問題每家公司的制度不一樣，但是我們會請相關的公會先用一個自律的方式去了解這件事情，然後再訂出一個合理的規範。"],["李委員彥秀：好，謝謝主委。第二個問題，我要請問行員挪用，前一陣子有合庫、富邦金、凱基銀行人員挪用客戶款項的這些問題。過去黃天牧主委有過裁罰，但最近這幾次我看到你們只有做糾正，而糾正這個處分會不會太微不足道？或者我們有沒有其他管控的辦法去加強這些金融機構內控的機制？你有什麼樣的作法？"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員剛好也給我一個機會來說明這件事情，剛才說歷任主委過去對於所謂挪用這樣一個事情，其實都有不同的處理，也都有採取非常多糾正的案例。這個倒不是採取什麼方式，最重要是我們銀行法的規定，我們本來建置有三道機制，如果銀行自己在第一道、第二道就主動發現了這件事情，這是我們本來建立內控制度最重要的，我們不會因為這樣而去處罰它，而且它已經確實的去防止，代表內控機制是穩健的，我想歷任主委的標準都一樣。"],["李委員彥秀：所以你個人覺得糾正就夠了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，這個東西……"],["李委員彥秀：不會再發生了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我跟委員報告，如果今天是已經穿透了三道防線，比如客戶來檢舉才知道，像很多人說這個案子為什麼過去罰得重？這些是銀行自己渾然不知，到客戶發覺自己短少的時候才來，那當然了，即便你主動通報，我照樣一樣是要處罰，法上非常的明確，只是把一個假設的例子做不當的比較，我覺得不是很好，我想我們都是依法辦理。"],["李委員彥秀：我理解依法辦理，但是未來如何不再有類似的狀況發生，這個機制只有糾正到底夠不夠？我尊重，因為每個人做法不一樣，我們是要達到最好的內控，不再有類似的狀況發生，所以我想要多再做進一步的思考。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，我們其實一向訂規定是「刑期無刑」啦！因為我們會區分各種不同的樣態，對一個已經善盡自我管控的銀行，這種微小的錯而且他們主動舉報，我們當然是鼓勵……比如健全這個制度……"],["李委員彥秀：所以你給予很多不同的彈性就對了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，本來法規就有很明確的規定，不能用最終的結果說這個糾正叫輕、那個罰叫重，其實如果仔細研究案情都是不一樣的。"],["李委員彥秀：好，謝謝主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李委員的質詢。","下一位請鍾委員質詢，鍾佳濱委員請。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-13","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","羅明才","李坤城","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","陳玉珍","林思銘","王世堅","林楚茵","廖先翔","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷"],"page_start":299,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部、金融監督管理委員會、中央銀行就「房屋稅2.0課徵亂象與金融機構對不動產\n融資緊縮及中央銀行信用管制措施對房地產交易之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中\n華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案 39 案；\n三、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結專案報告\n案9案","agenda_id":"1145101_00008"}}}