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\"start\": 225.808, \"end\": 226.068, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 226.068, \"end\": 226.489, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 226.489, \"end\": 226.949, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 226.949, \"end\": 227.209, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 227.209, \"end\": 227.549, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 227.549, \"end\": 227.729, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"襲\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 227.729, \"end\": 227.749, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}]}, {\"start\": 229.87, \"end\": 249.045, \"text\": \"那個案調查的部分 剛剛跟文說明了會由司法檢調來釐清相關的一個案情不過因為一再的發生這些個案那到底我們海防有沒有凸顯一些漏洞那這些漏洞後續海巡署該怎麼樣來彌補那我們這幾天也是很密集的跟海巡署在討論也是希望他們能夠很確實的來檢討每個個案所凸顯的漏洞\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 229.87, \"end\": 230.33, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 230.33, \"end\": 230.631, \"score\": 0.53}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": 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609.633, \"end\": 609.733, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 609.733, \"end\": 609.833, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 609.833, \"end\": 609.853, \"score\": 0.404}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 610.975, \"end\": 611.096, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 611.096, \"end\": 611.296, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 611.296, \"end\": 611.316, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,169 --> 00:00:02,434\n謝主席我請蔡局長請蔡局長謝主席任委員長\n\n2\n00:00:10,478 --> 00:00:34,252\n早安局長進入今天質詢的主題之前我還是先提醒一下局長繼上一次你們發揮了這個超人力一字不漏的抄自己之前的新聞稿作為專報的報告之後今天我也發現你們送來這個報告似乎又有點粗暴了在這次行政院送到立法院正式的關係文件的整個文書上面的解凍報告上面有說明討論事項第14案和82頁中針對你們預算編列的槍擊偵測的系統的頁間\n\n3\n00:00:40,836 --> 00:00:45,659\n攝影套件的兩套的預算節奏案裡面的報告裡面出現的時光倒流了你們報告裡面是寫109年到100年之間起案延提需求把時間寫成109到100那請問局長正確時間到底是從哪一年開始的還有怎麼國安局是那麼刑事嚴謹的國安單位怎麼會連送來立法院的\n\n4\n00:01:04,648 --> 00:01:05,589\n各位很抱歉實際的年份應該是109年到110年\n\n5\n00:01:21,058 --> 00:01:25,563\n所以這個可能還要改進因為不是第一次這是比較不對的地方我們來檢討接下來還有一個問題就是說是一個比較離譜的共諜事件就是前天的話5月19號就在賴清德總統就職滿一週年的前夕爆出了海巡署的高官主任\n\n6\n00:01:40,458 --> 00:01:44,660\n中輝的共諜的事件但這個事件發生讓我聯想到這幾天有兩起的偷渡的案件包括5月17號中國籍的宋姓父子搭乘橡皮艇那個偷渡來台還有一個是5月18號自稱山東凱哥的陸籍攔子發布了整個影片是從15日從福建駕駛動力的橡皮艇成功登陸了桃園海岸而且還插上了五星旗那當然\n\n7\n00:02:09,481 --> 00:02:14,804\n據我了解這個偷渡的事件表面上應該是海巡署的責任但是好像跟你們沒關係但是跟你們國安局到底有沒有關係呢而且國家安全就是國安局的責任嘛國安局主要的任務應該是復席台海兩岸的情報工作這樣然後因為根據過去幾次我們\n\n8\n00:02:28,311 --> 00:02:38,514\n中國的偷渡客偷渡的案件中你們國安局的報告都有提到說可能是對岸的灰色地帶整個的作為所以這次抓到的這位莊中輝主任這個共諜他是負責的是金馬盆地區的情務編排那局長你認為抓到這一個他把海巡情務分配的狀況的洩露給對岸的機率這樣的高不高\n\n9\n00:02:54,599 --> 00:02:58,822\n還有跟這些偷渡案件有沒有關聯還有有沒有可能是這些偷渡客實際上他已經掌握了整個海巡的情惡狀況知道要怎麼樣避開海巡署的巡邏呢對就個案的部分因為已經在司法偵辦了那所以他們相關的一個調查的細節我可能一來不知道我也不方便在這個場合來做說明個案的部分司法偵辦的個案部分\n\n10\n00:03:20,558 --> 00:03:47,749\n那第二部分在海域安全的部分確實夜館的機關是海巡署但是海巡署是我們國安情報機關裡面四同情報機關所以依照我們的國家情報工作法跟國安局組織法我們是可以指導統合跟協調還有支援包括海巡署在內的情報機關跟四同情報機關相關的國安情報的收演那所以對於海域安全的部分我們國安局這邊會比較關注的是整體的中共相關襲擾的樣態\n\n11\n00:03:49,870 --> 00:04:09,045\n那個案調查的部分剛剛跟文說明了會由司法檢調來釐清相關的一個案情不過因為一再的發生這些個案那到底我們海防有沒有凸顯一些漏洞那這些漏洞後續海巡署該怎麼樣來彌補那我們這幾天也是很密集的跟海巡署在討論也是希望他們能夠很確實的來檢討每個個案所凸顯的漏洞\n\n12\n00:04:13,388 --> 00:04:30,223\n那來針對海防的漏洞來做必要的一個彌補那這部分我們會持續的來指導協調海巡署來加強相關的策進的作為好那我請教再請教局長一下就是這兩三年來不斷的都發生這些中國的偷渡來台的台灣的案件\n\n13\n00:04:30,723 --> 00:04:33,946\n那台灣海峽就號稱黑水溝嘛因為海象非常的惡劣常有船難然後所以我想請教一下就是國安局是否有很認真的看待對岸的偷渡的這個事件因為他們有時候說是來自中國的投奔自由的偷渡客怎麼那麼容易就會穿越了整個台灣海峽而且穿過我國的海域就好像入無人之境一樣那局長你認為這是中共有系統的行動呢\n\n14\n00:04:58,887 --> 00:05:04,449\n還是分散的就像你剛才說是不是分散個案還是有其他的結論還是說你覺得你不排除中共的灰色地帶的這個整個的行動局長還有剛才那個海巡組還要統計說截至5月17號開始已經累計大約有偷渡案大概5起共有38個人了有那麼多人來偷渡的話那我想請教局長就是國安局的情報分析能力可以得出一個最基本的原因嗎\n\n15\n00:05:25,114 --> 00:05:49,720\n基本社會委員比較關切是在於動機的部分每一個這些偷渡案的動機可能都不一樣所以必須要進去做比較深入的釐清包括它的航程包括它的油料以及它航行的路徑到底合不合理也要收集它的手機相關的數位跡證的檢視看手機的記錄裡面的一個定位是不是如它所供述的那個過程\n\n16\n00:05:50,600 --> 00:06:19,559\n那第二部分可能也會去注意到的是他的那個小艇那他的小艇到底是不是直接從對岸航行到台灣的岸際還是是中間有任何的船舶的接駁那也會透過那個小艇各種生物跡證的檢測來還原那相關偷渡犯他們的供詞到底正確或不正確那另外可能也會注意到的是他們這種小艇假如要用大船放下來的話一般都還是會有一個懸吊或相關的\n\n17\n00:06:21,361 --> 00:06:42,578\n勾類似抓放的一個痕跡那這也會去透過那個小艇的檢測來看到底真的是如供述的直接過來的還是有經過大船的投放他才在某個海峽中間點來切入到台灣的相關的海域所以這部分每個個案都要做一些還原跟釐清好謝謝\n\n18\n00:06:44,079 --> 00:07:06,161\n那我再問一個問題就是比較近的問題就是局長你說收集外國的情報也是國安局的工作嘛那你最近針對了川普曾經說過要買下格林南島還有加拿大可能會變成美國的第51州這樣的結果格林南島和加拿大的領導人都怎麼說的你知道嗎\n\n19\n00:07:07,943 --> 00:07:22,641\n對,就從政策的角度來看可以從川普總統相關的談話那了解到他對於美國國土安全他非常的重視那因為他所關注的議題除了格林蘭那可能是敵對\n\n20\n00:07:24,823 --> 00:07:47,855\n國家發射導彈的一個主要的路徑那假如格陵蘭能夠跟美國比較親近的話美國在當地的軍事部署或飛彈攔截的設施雷達設施會比較好設置那另外他也提到了巴拉馬運河他還認為所有權應該要做重新的調整跟管理那從這些案例看起來從政策面的解讀可以知道的是美國川普政府\n\n21\n00:07:48,375 --> 00:08:08,943\n對於美國的本土安全似乎有高度的關注那這部分也比較符合他長期在講美國優先美國第一的這個概念所衍生出來的一些主張那當然他的一些相關的講法那有時候我們還要再去看他實際的政策作為是不是有類似比較具體的搭配那這我們還要再來繼續的注意\n\n22\n00:08:11,164 --> 00:08:16,150\n好但是格陵南島和加拿大的領導人其實他們都說他們這些是非賣品所以我的問題就是說那現在總統在520發表演講的時候就有提到兩岸應該要用對話取代整個對抗\n\n23\n00:08:26,261 --> 00:08:30,223\n但是他前兩天在受訪的時候我又引用他的說法就是他說中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司那如果說你要併我的公司那你要提條件對吧這樣但是這樣的說法的時候其實真的引起了台灣人民的不安所以本席非常的擔心因為這樣說法會不會就是像\n\n24\n00:08:48,092 --> 00:08:55,637\n中國傳達了台灣主權可以出售的這整個訊息呢還有面對美國總統川普說要別人國家的主權併購這些領導人是不是都堅定的說我們主權其實是非賣品但是結果我們最愛講抗中保台的總統賴清德竟然提出了併購主權的說法那局長這是賴總統想要賣台了嗎還是真正的中共同路人\n\n25\n00:09:14,329 --> 00:09:25,912\n還有包括我們現在抓到的總統府的共諜都是賴總統派的跟中共對接的特使呢那我想說局長你是身為兩岸情報的單位首長那我想說你認為這樣的情況我剛才所說的你認為賴總統這樣的說法和比喻你覺得是恰當還是不恰當對我想我身為國安局長我不適合去評論國家引導人的每一句的談話那但是從這一段的訪談我自己我個人我也有去了解一下注意一下他的用語\n\n26\n00:09:42,256 --> 00:10:09,853\n那我個人在過程當中我看到的重點是賴總統特別在提醒那中共長期都有併吞台灣的意圖那不管他併吞台灣的方法或是方案是什麼都應該要尊重中華民國存在的事實以及台灣民意的意向那台灣是主權跟民主的國家那這個過程當中應該要注意到我們主權的地位跟民意的走向那這大概是我從談話內容當中我個人所看到的重點\n\n27\n00:10:10,975 --> 00:10:11,316\n好謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t2434\t謝主席 我請蔡局長請蔡局長謝主席 任委員長\n10478\t34252\t早安 局長進入今天質詢的主題之前我還是先提醒一下局長繼上一次你們發揮了這個超人力一字不漏的抄自己之前的新聞稿作為專報的報告之後今天我也發現你們送來這個報告似乎又有點粗暴了在這次行政院送到立法院正式的關係文件的整個文書上面的解凍報告上面有說明討論事項第14案和82頁中針對你們預算編列的槍擊偵測的系統的頁間\n40836\t45659\t攝影套件的兩套的預算節奏案裡面的報告裡面出現的時光倒流了你們報告裡面是寫109年到100年之間起案延提需求把時間寫成109到100那請問局長正確時間到底是從哪一年開始的還有怎麼國安局是那麼刑事嚴謹的國安單位怎麼會連送來立法院的\n64648\t65589\t各位很抱歉 實際的年份應該是109年到110年\n81058\t85563\t所以這個可能還要改進 因為不是第一次這是比較不對的地方 我們來檢討接下來還有一個問題 就是說是一個比較離譜的共諜事件就是前天的話 5月19號就在賴清德總統就職滿一週年的前夕爆出了海巡署的高官主任\n100458\t104660\t中輝的共諜的事件但這個事件發生讓我聯想到這幾天有兩起的偷渡的案件包括5月17號中國籍的宋姓父子搭乘橡皮艇那個偷渡來台還有一個是5月18號自稱山東凱哥的陸籍攔子發布了整個影片是從15日從福建駕駛動力的橡皮艇成功登陸了桃園海岸而且還插上了五星旗那當然\n129481\t134804\t據我了解這個偷渡的事件表面上應該是海巡署的責任但是好像跟你們沒關係但是跟你們國安局到底有沒有關係呢而且國家安全就是國安局的責任嘛國安局主要的任務應該是復席台海兩岸的情報工作這樣然後因為根據過去幾次我們\n148311\t158514\t中國的偷渡客偷渡的案件中你們國安局的報告都有提到說可能是對岸的灰色地帶整個的作為所以這次抓到的這位莊中輝主任這個共諜他是負責的是金馬盆地區的情務編排那局長你認為抓到這一個他把海巡情務分配的狀況的洩露給對岸的機率這樣的高不高\n174599\t178822\t還有跟這些偷渡案件有沒有關聯還有有沒有可能是這些偷渡客實際上他已經掌握了整個海巡的情惡狀況知道要怎麼樣避開海巡署的巡邏呢對就個案的部分因為已經在司法偵辦了那所以他們相關的一個調查的細節我可能一來不知道我也不方便在這個場合來做說明個案的部分司法偵辦的個案部分\n200558\t227749\t那第二部分在海域安全的部分確實夜館的機關是海巡署但是海巡署是我們國安情報機關裡面四同情報機關所以依照我們的國家情報工作法跟國安局組織法我們是可以指導統合跟協調還有支援包括海巡署在內的情報機關跟四同情報機關相關的國安情報的收演那所以對於海域安全的部分我們國安局這邊會比較關注的是整體的中共相關襲擾的樣態\n229870\t249045\t那個案調查的部分 剛剛跟文說明了會由司法檢調來釐清相關的一個案情不過因為一再的發生這些個案那到底我們海防有沒有凸顯一些漏洞那這些漏洞後續海巡署該怎麼樣來彌補那我們這幾天也是很密集的跟海巡署在討論也是希望他們能夠很確實的來檢討每個個案所凸顯的漏洞\n253388\t270223\t那來針對海防的漏洞來做必要的一個彌補那這部分我們會持續的來指導協調海巡署來加強相關的策進的作為好那我請教再請教局長一下就是這兩三年來不斷的都發生這些中國的偷渡來台的台灣的案件\n270723\t273946\t那台灣海峽就號稱黑水溝嘛因為海象非常的惡劣常有船難然後所以我想請教一下就是國安局是否有很認真的看待對岸的偷渡的這個事件因為他們有時候說是來自中國的投奔自由的偷渡客怎麼那麼容易就會穿越了整個台灣海峽而且穿過我國的海域就好像入無人之境一樣那局長你認為這是中共有系統的行動呢\n298887\t304449\t還是分散的就像你剛才說是不是分散個案還是有其他的結論還是說你覺得你不排除中共的灰色地帶的這個整個的行動局長還有剛才那個海巡組還要統計說截至5月17號開始已經累計大約有偷渡案大概5起共有38個人了有那麼多人來偷渡的話那我想請教局長就是國安局的情報分析能力可以得出一個最基本的原因嗎\n325114\t349720\t基本社會委員比較關切是在於動機的部分每一個這些偷渡案的動機可能都不一樣所以必須要進去做比較深入的釐清包括它的航程包括它的油料以及它航行的路徑到底合不合理也要收集它的手機相關的數位跡證的檢視看手機的記錄裡面的一個定位是不是如它所供述的那個過程\n350600\t379559\t那第二部分可能也會去注意到的是他的那個小艇那他的小艇到底是不是直接從對岸航行到台灣的岸際還是是中間有任何的船舶的接駁那也會透過那個小艇各種生物跡證的檢測來還原那相關偷渡犯他們的供詞到底正確或不正確那另外可能也會注意到的是他們這種小艇假如要用大船放下來的話一般都還是會有一個懸吊或相關的\n381361\t402578\t勾類似抓放的一個痕跡那這也會去透過那個小艇的檢測來看到底真的是如供述的直接過來的還是有經過大船的投放他才在某個海峽中間點來切入到台灣的相關的海域所以這部分每個個案都要做一些還原跟釐清好 謝謝\n404079\t426161\t那我再問一個問題就是比較近的問題就是局長你說收集外國的情報也是國安局的工作嘛那你最近針對了川普曾經說過要買下格林南島還有加拿大可能會變成美國的第51州這樣的結果格林南島和加拿大的領導人都怎麼說的你知道嗎\n427943\t442641\t對,就從政策的角度來看可以從川普總統相關的談話那了解到他對於美國國土安全他非常的重視那因為他所關注的議題除了格林蘭那可能是敵對\n444823\t467855\t國家發射導彈的一個主要的路徑那假如格陵蘭能夠跟美國比較親近的話美國在當地的軍事部署或飛彈攔截的設施雷達設施會比較好設置那另外他也提到了巴拉馬運河他還認為所有權應該要做重新的調整跟管理那從這些案例看起來從政策面的解讀可以知道的是美國川普政府\n468375\t488943\t對於美國的本土安全似乎有高度的關注那這部分也比較符合他長期在講美國優先美國第一的這個概念所衍生出來的一些主張那當然他的一些相關的講法那有時候我們還要再去看他實際的政策作為是不是有類似比較具體的搭配那這我們還要再來繼續的注意\n491164\t496150\t好 但是格陵南島和加拿大的領導人其實他們都說他們這些是非賣品所以我的問題就是說那現在總統在520發表演講的時候就有提到兩岸應該要用對話取代整個對抗\n506261\t510223\t但是他前兩天在受訪的時候我又引用他的說法就是他說中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司那如果說你要併我的公司那你要提條件對吧這樣但是這樣的說法的時候其實真的引起了台灣人民的不安所以本席非常的擔心因為這樣說法會不會就是像\n528092\t535637\t中國傳達了台灣主權可以出售的這整個訊息呢還有面對美國總統川普說要別人國家的主權併購這些領導人是不是都堅定的說我們主權其實是非賣品但是結果我們最愛講抗中保台的總統賴清德竟然提出了併購主權的說法那局長這是賴總統想要賣台了嗎還是真正的中共同路人\n554329\t565912\t還有包括我們現在抓到的總統府的共諜都是賴總統派的跟中共對接的特使呢那我想說局長你是身為兩岸情報的單位首長那我想說你認為這樣的情況我剛才所說的你認為賴總統這樣的說法和比喻你覺得是恰當還是不恰當對我想我身為國安局長我不適合去評論國家引導人的每一句的談話那但是從這一段的訪談我自己我個人我也有去了解一下注意一下他的用語\n582256\t609853\t那我個人在過程當中我看到的重點是賴總統特別在提醒那中共長期都有併吞台灣的意圖那不管他併吞台灣的方法或是方案是什麼都應該要尊重中華民國存在的事實以及台灣民意的意向那台灣是主權跟民主的國家那這個過程當中應該要注意到我們主權的地位跟民意的走向那這大概是我從談話內容當中我個人所看到的重點\n610975\t611316\t好 謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝主席 我請蔡局長請蔡局長謝主席 任委員長\n早安 局長進入今天質詢的主題之前我還是先提醒一下局長繼上一次你們發揮了這個超人力一字不漏的抄自己之前的新聞稿作為專報的報告之後今天我也發現你們送來這個報告似乎又有點粗暴了在這次行政院送到立法院正式的關係文件的整個文書上面的解凍報告上面有說明討論事項第14案和82頁中針對你們預算編列的槍擊偵測的系統的頁間\n攝影套件的兩套的預算節奏案裡面的報告裡面出現的時光倒流了你們報告裡面是寫109年到100年之間起案延提需求把時間寫成109到100那請問局長正確時間到底是從哪一年開始的還有怎麼國安局是那麼刑事嚴謹的國安單位怎麼會連送來立法院的\n各位很抱歉 實際的年份應該是109年到110年\n所以這個可能還要改進 因為不是第一次這是比較不對的地方 我們來檢討接下來還有一個問題 就是說是一個比較離譜的共諜事件就是前天的話 5月19號就在賴清德總統就職滿一週年的前夕爆出了海巡署的高官主任\n中輝的共諜的事件但這個事件發生讓我聯想到這幾天有兩起的偷渡的案件包括5月17號中國籍的宋姓父子搭乘橡皮艇那個偷渡來台還有一個是5月18號自稱山東凱哥的陸籍攔子發布了整個影片是從15日從福建駕駛動力的橡皮艇成功登陸了桃園海岸而且還插上了五星旗那當然\n據我了解這個偷渡的事件表面上應該是海巡署的責任但是好像跟你們沒關係但是跟你們國安局到底有沒有關係呢而且國家安全就是國安局的責任嘛國安局主要的任務應該是復席台海兩岸的情報工作這樣然後因為根據過去幾次我們\n中國的偷渡客偷渡的案件中你們國安局的報告都有提到說可能是對岸的灰色地帶整個的作為所以這次抓到的這位莊中輝主任這個共諜他是負責的是金馬盆地區的情務編排那局長你認為抓到這一個他把海巡情務分配的狀況的洩露給對岸的機率這樣的高不高\n還有跟這些偷渡案件有沒有關聯還有有沒有可能是這些偷渡客實際上他已經掌握了整個海巡的情惡狀況知道要怎麼樣避開海巡署的巡邏呢對就個案的部分因為已經在司法偵辦了那所以他們相關的一個調查的細節我可能一來不知道我也不方便在這個場合來做說明個案的部分司法偵辦的個案部分\n那第二部分在海域安全的部分確實夜館的機關是海巡署但是海巡署是我們國安情報機關裡面四同情報機關所以依照我們的國家情報工作法跟國安局組織法我們是可以指導統合跟協調還有支援包括海巡署在內的情報機關跟四同情報機關相關的國安情報的收演那所以對於海域安全的部分我們國安局這邊會比較關注的是整體的中共相關襲擾的樣態\n那個案調查的部分 剛剛跟文說明了會由司法檢調來釐清相關的一個案情不過因為一再的發生這些個案那到底我們海防有沒有凸顯一些漏洞那這些漏洞後續海巡署該怎麼樣來彌補那我們這幾天也是很密集的跟海巡署在討論也是希望他們能夠很確實的來檢討每個個案所凸顯的漏洞\n那來針對海防的漏洞來做必要的一個彌補那這部分我們會持續的來指導協調海巡署來加強相關的策進的作為好那我請教再請教局長一下就是這兩三年來不斷的都發生這些中國的偷渡來台的台灣的案件\n那台灣海峽就號稱黑水溝嘛因為海象非常的惡劣常有船難然後所以我想請教一下就是國安局是否有很認真的看待對岸的偷渡的這個事件因為他們有時候說是來自中國的投奔自由的偷渡客怎麼那麼容易就會穿越了整個台灣海峽而且穿過我國的海域就好像入無人之境一樣那局長你認為這是中共有系統的行動呢\n還是分散的就像你剛才說是不是分散個案還是有其他的結論還是說你覺得你不排除中共的灰色地帶的這個整個的行動局長還有剛才那個海巡組還要統計說截至5月17號開始已經累計大約有偷渡案大概5起共有38個人了有那麼多人來偷渡的話那我想請教局長就是國安局的情報分析能力可以得出一個最基本的原因嗎\n基本社會委員比較關切是在於動機的部分每一個這些偷渡案的動機可能都不一樣所以必須要進去做比較深入的釐清包括它的航程包括它的油料以及它航行的路徑到底合不合理也要收集它的手機相關的數位跡證的檢視看手機的記錄裡面的一個定位是不是如它所供述的那個過程\n那第二部分可能也會去注意到的是他的那個小艇那他的小艇到底是不是直接從對岸航行到台灣的岸際還是是中間有任何的船舶的接駁那也會透過那個小艇各種生物跡證的檢測來還原那相關偷渡犯他們的供詞到底正確或不正確那另外可能也會注意到的是他們這種小艇假如要用大船放下來的話一般都還是會有一個懸吊或相關的\n勾類似抓放的一個痕跡那這也會去透過那個小艇的檢測來看到底真的是如供述的直接過來的還是有經過大船的投放他才在某個海峽中間點來切入到台灣的相關的海域所以這部分每個個案都要做一些還原跟釐清好 謝謝\n那我再問一個問題就是比較近的問題就是局長你說收集外國的情報也是國安局的工作嘛那你最近針對了川普曾經說過要買下格林南島還有加拿大可能會變成美國的第51州這樣的結果格林南島和加拿大的領導人都怎麼說的你知道嗎\n對,就從政策的角度來看可以從川普總統相關的談話那了解到他對於美國國土安全他非常的重視那因為他所關注的議題除了格林蘭那可能是敵對\n國家發射導彈的一個主要的路徑那假如格陵蘭能夠跟美國比較親近的話美國在當地的軍事部署或飛彈攔截的設施雷達設施會比較好設置那另外他也提到了巴拉馬運河他還認為所有權應該要做重新的調整跟管理那從這些案例看起來從政策面的解讀可以知道的是美國川普政府\n對於美國的本土安全似乎有高度的關注那這部分也比較符合他長期在講美國優先美國第一的這個概念所衍生出來的一些主張那當然他的一些相關的講法那有時候我們還要再去看他實際的政策作為是不是有類似比較具體的搭配那這我們還要再來繼續的注意\n好 但是格陵南島和加拿大的領導人其實他們都說他們這些是非賣品所以我的問題就是說那現在總統在520發表演講的時候就有提到兩岸應該要用對話取代整個對抗\n但是他前兩天在受訪的時候我又引用他的說法就是他說中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司那如果說你要併我的公司那你要提條件對吧這樣但是這樣的說法的時候其實真的引起了台灣人民的不安所以本席非常的擔心因為這樣說法會不會就是像\n中國傳達了台灣主權可以出售的這整個訊息呢還有面對美國總統川普說要別人國家的主權併購這些領導人是不是都堅定的說我們主權其實是非賣品但是結果我們最愛講抗中保台的總統賴清德竟然提出了併購主權的說法那局長這是賴總統想要賣台了嗎還是真正的中共同路人\n還有包括我們現在抓到的總統府的共諜都是賴總統派的跟中共對接的特使呢那我想說局長你是身為兩岸情報的單位首長那我想說你認為這樣的情況我剛才所說的你認為賴總統這樣的說法和比喻你覺得是恰當還是不恰當對我想我身為國安局長我不適合去評論國家引導人的每一句的談話那但是從這一段的訪談我自己我個人我也有去了解一下注意一下他的用語\n那我個人在過程當中我看到的重點是賴總統特別在提醒那中共長期都有併吞台灣的意圖那不管他併吞台灣的方法或是方案是什麼都應該要尊重中華民國存在的事實以及台灣民意的意向那台灣是主權跟民主的國家那這個過程當中應該要注意到我們主權的地位跟民意的走向那這大概是我從談話內容當中我個人所看到的重點\n好 謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:02.434\n謝主席我請蔡局長請蔡局長謝主席任委員長\n\n00:10.478 --> 00:34.252\n早安局長進入今天質詢的主題之前我還是先提醒一下局長繼上一次你們發揮了這個超人力一字不漏的抄自己之前的新聞稿作為專報的報告之後今天我也發現你們送來這個報告似乎又有點粗暴了在這次行政院送到立法院正式的關係文件的整個文書上面的解凍報告上面有說明討論事項第14案和82頁中針對你們預算編列的槍擊偵測的系統的頁間\n\n00:40.836 --> 00:45.659\n攝影套件的兩套的預算節奏案裡面的報告裡面出現的時光倒流了你們報告裡面是寫109年到100年之間起案延提需求把時間寫成109到100那請問局長正確時間到底是從哪一年開始的還有怎麼國安局是那麼刑事嚴謹的國安單位怎麼會連送來立法院的\n\n01:04.648 --> 01:05.589\n各位很抱歉實際的年份應該是109年到110年\n\n01:21.058 --> 01:25.563\n所以這個可能還要改進因為不是第一次這是比較不對的地方我們來檢討接下來還有一個問題就是說是一個比較離譜的共諜事件就是前天的話5月19號就在賴清德總統就職滿一週年的前夕爆出了海巡署的高官主任\n\n01:40.458 --> 01:44.660\n中輝的共諜的事件但這個事件發生讓我聯想到這幾天有兩起的偷渡的案件包括5月17號中國籍的宋姓父子搭乘橡皮艇那個偷渡來台還有一個是5月18號自稱山東凱哥的陸籍攔子發布了整個影片是從15日從福建駕駛動力的橡皮艇成功登陸了桃園海岸而且還插上了五星旗那當然\n\n02:09.481 --> 02:14.804\n據我了解這個偷渡的事件表面上應該是海巡署的責任但是好像跟你們沒關係但是跟你們國安局到底有沒有關係呢而且國家安全就是國安局的責任嘛國安局主要的任務應該是復席台海兩岸的情報工作這樣然後因為根據過去幾次我們\n\n02:28.311 --> 02:38.514\n中國的偷渡客偷渡的案件中你們國安局的報告都有提到說可能是對岸的灰色地帶整個的作為所以這次抓到的這位莊中輝主任這個共諜他是負責的是金馬盆地區的情務編排那局長你認為抓到這一個他把海巡情務分配的狀況的洩露給對岸的機率這樣的高不高\n\n02:54.599 --> 02:58.822\n還有跟這些偷渡案件有沒有關聯還有有沒有可能是這些偷渡客實際上他已經掌握了整個海巡的情惡狀況知道要怎麼樣避開海巡署的巡邏呢對就個案的部分因為已經在司法偵辦了那所以他們相關的一個調查的細節我可能一來不知道我也不方便在這個場合來做說明個案的部分司法偵辦的個案部分\n\n03:20.558 --> 03:47.749\n那第二部分在海域安全的部分確實夜館的機關是海巡署但是海巡署是我們國安情報機關裡面四同情報機關所以依照我們的國家情報工作法跟國安局組織法我們是可以指導統合跟協調還有支援包括海巡署在內的情報機關跟四同情報機關相關的國安情報的收演那所以對於海域安全的部分我們國安局這邊會比較關注的是整體的中共相關襲擾的樣態\n\n03:49.870 --> 04:09.045\n那個案調查的部分剛剛跟文說明了會由司法檢調來釐清相關的一個案情不過因為一再的發生這些個案那到底我們海防有沒有凸顯一些漏洞那這些漏洞後續海巡署該怎麼樣來彌補那我們這幾天也是很密集的跟海巡署在討論也是希望他們能夠很確實的來檢討每個個案所凸顯的漏洞\n\n04:13.388 --> 04:30.223\n那來針對海防的漏洞來做必要的一個彌補那這部分我們會持續的來指導協調海巡署來加強相關的策進的作為好那我請教再請教局長一下就是這兩三年來不斷的都發生這些中國的偷渡來台的台灣的案件\n\n04:30.723 --> 04:33.946\n那台灣海峽就號稱黑水溝嘛因為海象非常的惡劣常有船難然後所以我想請教一下就是國安局是否有很認真的看待對岸的偷渡的這個事件因為他們有時候說是來自中國的投奔自由的偷渡客怎麼那麼容易就會穿越了整個台灣海峽而且穿過我國的海域就好像入無人之境一樣那局長你認為這是中共有系統的行動呢\n\n04:58.887 --> 05:04.449\n還是分散的就像你剛才說是不是分散個案還是有其他的結論還是說你覺得你不排除中共的灰色地帶的這個整個的行動局長還有剛才那個海巡組還要統計說截至5月17號開始已經累計大約有偷渡案大概5起共有38個人了有那麼多人來偷渡的話那我想請教局長就是國安局的情報分析能力可以得出一個最基本的原因嗎\n\n05:25.114 --> 05:49.720\n基本社會委員比較關切是在於動機的部分每一個這些偷渡案的動機可能都不一樣所以必須要進去做比較深入的釐清包括它的航程包括它的油料以及它航行的路徑到底合不合理也要收集它的手機相關的數位跡證的檢視看手機的記錄裡面的一個定位是不是如它所供述的那個過程\n\n05:50.600 --> 06:19.559\n那第二部分可能也會去注意到的是他的那個小艇那他的小艇到底是不是直接從對岸航行到台灣的岸際還是是中間有任何的船舶的接駁那也會透過那個小艇各種生物跡證的檢測來還原那相關偷渡犯他們的供詞到底正確或不正確那另外可能也會注意到的是他們這種小艇假如要用大船放下來的話一般都還是會有一個懸吊或相關的\n\n06:21.361 --> 06:42.578\n勾類似抓放的一個痕跡那這也會去透過那個小艇的檢測來看到底真的是如供述的直接過來的還是有經過大船的投放他才在某個海峽中間點來切入到台灣的相關的海域所以這部分每個個案都要做一些還原跟釐清好謝謝\n\n06:44.079 --> 07:06.161\n那我再問一個問題就是比較近的問題就是局長你說收集外國的情報也是國安局的工作嘛那你最近針對了川普曾經說過要買下格林南島還有加拿大可能會變成美國的第51州這樣的結果格林南島和加拿大的領導人都怎麼說的你知道嗎\n\n07:07.943 --> 07:22.641\n對,就從政策的角度來看可以從川普總統相關的談話那了解到他對於美國國土安全他非常的重視那因為他所關注的議題除了格林蘭那可能是敵對\n\n07:24.823 --> 07:47.855\n國家發射導彈的一個主要的路徑那假如格陵蘭能夠跟美國比較親近的話美國在當地的軍事部署或飛彈攔截的設施雷達設施會比較好設置那另外他也提到了巴拉馬運河他還認為所有權應該要做重新的調整跟管理那從這些案例看起來從政策面的解讀可以知道的是美國川普政府\n\n07:48.375 --> 08:08.943\n對於美國的本土安全似乎有高度的關注那這部分也比較符合他長期在講美國優先美國第一的這個概念所衍生出來的一些主張那當然他的一些相關的講法那有時候我們還要再去看他實際的政策作為是不是有類似比較具體的搭配那這我們還要再來繼續的注意\n\n08:11.164 --> 08:16.150\n好但是格陵南島和加拿大的領導人其實他們都說他們這些是非賣品所以我的問題就是說那現在總統在520發表演講的時候就有提到兩岸應該要用對話取代整個對抗\n\n08:26.261 --> 08:30.223\n但是他前兩天在受訪的時候我又引用他的說法就是他說中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司那如果說你要併我的公司那你要提條件對吧這樣但是這樣的說法的時候其實真的引起了台灣人民的不安所以本席非常的擔心因為這樣說法會不會就是像\n\n08:48.092 --> 08:55.637\n中國傳達了台灣主權可以出售的這整個訊息呢還有面對美國總統川普說要別人國家的主權併購這些領導人是不是都堅定的說我們主權其實是非賣品但是結果我們最愛講抗中保台的總統賴清德竟然提出了併購主權的說法那局長這是賴總統想要賣台了嗎還是真正的中共同路人\n\n09:14.329 --> 09:25.912\n還有包括我們現在抓到的總統府的共諜都是賴總統派的跟中共對接的特使呢那我想說局長你是身為兩岸情報的單位首長那我想說你認為這樣的情況我剛才所說的你認為賴總統這樣的說法和比喻你覺得是恰當還是不恰當對我想我身為國安局長我不適合去評論國家引導人的每一句的談話那但是從這一段的訪談我自己我個人我也有去了解一下注意一下他的用語\n\n09:42.256 --> 10:09.853\n那我個人在過程當中我看到的重點是賴總統特別在提醒那中共長期都有併吞台灣的意圖那不管他併吞台灣的方法或是方案是什麼都應該要尊重中華民國存在的事實以及台灣民意的意向那台灣是主權跟民主的國家那這個過程當中應該要注意到我們主權的地位跟民意的走向那這大概是我從談話內容當中我個人所看到的重點\n\n10:10.975 --> 10:11.316\n好謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":2.434,"text":"謝主席 我請蔡局長請蔡局長謝主席 任委員長"},{"start":10.478,"end":34.252,"text":"早安 局長進入今天質詢的主題之前我還是先提醒一下局長繼上一次你們發揮了這個超人力一字不漏的抄自己之前的新聞稿作為專報的報告之後今天我也發現你們送來這個報告似乎又有點粗暴了在這次行政院送到立法院正式的關係文件的整個文書上面的解凍報告上面有說明討論事項第14案和82頁中針對你們預算編列的槍擊偵測的系統的頁間"},{"start":40.836,"end":45.659,"text":"攝影套件的兩套的預算節奏案裡面的報告裡面出現的時光倒流了你們報告裡面是寫109年到100年之間起案延提需求把時間寫成109到100那請問局長正確時間到底是從哪一年開始的還有怎麼國安局是那麼刑事嚴謹的國安單位怎麼會連送來立法院的"},{"start":64.648,"end":65.589,"text":"各位很抱歉 實際的年份應該是109年到110年"},{"start":81.058,"end":85.563,"text":"所以這個可能還要改進 因為不是第一次這是比較不對的地方 我們來檢討接下來還有一個問題 就是說是一個比較離譜的共諜事件就是前天的話 5月19號就在賴清德總統就職滿一週年的前夕爆出了海巡署的高官主任"},{"start":100.458,"end":104.66,"text":"中輝的共諜的事件但這個事件發生讓我聯想到這幾天有兩起的偷渡的案件包括5月17號中國籍的宋姓父子搭乘橡皮艇那個偷渡來台還有一個是5月18號自稱山東凱哥的陸籍攔子發布了整個影片是從15日從福建駕駛動力的橡皮艇成功登陸了桃園海岸而且還插上了五星旗那當然"},{"start":129.481,"end":134.804,"text":"據我了解這個偷渡的事件表面上應該是海巡署的責任但是好像跟你們沒關係但是跟你們國安局到底有沒有關係呢而且國家安全就是國安局的責任嘛國安局主要的任務應該是復席台海兩岸的情報工作這樣然後因為根據過去幾次我們"},{"start":148.311,"end":158.514,"text":"中國的偷渡客偷渡的案件中你們國安局的報告都有提到說可能是對岸的灰色地帶整個的作為所以這次抓到的這位莊中輝主任這個共諜他是負責的是金馬盆地區的情務編排那局長你認為抓到這一個他把海巡情務分配的狀況的洩露給對岸的機率這樣的高不高"},{"start":174.599,"end":178.822,"text":"還有跟這些偷渡案件有沒有關聯還有有沒有可能是這些偷渡客實際上他已經掌握了整個海巡的情惡狀況知道要怎麼樣避開海巡署的巡邏呢對就個案的部分因為已經在司法偵辦了那所以他們相關的一個調查的細節我可能一來不知道我也不方便在這個場合來做說明個案的部分司法偵辦的個案部分"},{"start":200.558,"end":227.749,"text":"那第二部分在海域安全的部分確實夜館的機關是海巡署但是海巡署是我們國安情報機關裡面四同情報機關所以依照我們的國家情報工作法跟國安局組織法我們是可以指導統合跟協調還有支援包括海巡署在內的情報機關跟四同情報機關相關的國安情報的收演那所以對於海域安全的部分我們國安局這邊會比較關注的是整體的中共相關襲擾的樣態"},{"start":229.87,"end":249.045,"text":"那個案調查的部分 剛剛跟文說明了會由司法檢調來釐清相關的一個案情不過因為一再的發生這些個案那到底我們海防有沒有凸顯一些漏洞那這些漏洞後續海巡署該怎麼樣來彌補那我們這幾天也是很密集的跟海巡署在討論也是希望他們能夠很確實的來檢討每個個案所凸顯的漏洞"},{"start":253.388,"end":270.223,"text":"那來針對海防的漏洞來做必要的一個彌補那這部分我們會持續的來指導協調海巡署來加強相關的策進的作為好那我請教再請教局長一下就是這兩三年來不斷的都發生這些中國的偷渡來台的台灣的案件"},{"start":270.723,"end":273.946,"text":"那台灣海峽就號稱黑水溝嘛因為海象非常的惡劣常有船難然後所以我想請教一下就是國安局是否有很認真的看待對岸的偷渡的這個事件因為他們有時候說是來自中國的投奔自由的偷渡客怎麼那麼容易就會穿越了整個台灣海峽而且穿過我國的海域就好像入無人之境一樣那局長你認為這是中共有系統的行動呢"},{"start":298.887,"end":304.449,"text":"還是分散的就像你剛才說是不是分散個案還是有其他的結論還是說你覺得你不排除中共的灰色地帶的這個整個的行動局長還有剛才那個海巡組還要統計說截至5月17號開始已經累計大約有偷渡案大概5起共有38個人了有那麼多人來偷渡的話那我想請教局長就是國安局的情報分析能力可以得出一個最基本的原因嗎"},{"start":325.114,"end":349.72,"text":"基本社會委員比較關切是在於動機的部分每一個這些偷渡案的動機可能都不一樣所以必須要進去做比較深入的釐清包括它的航程包括它的油料以及它航行的路徑到底合不合理也要收集它的手機相關的數位跡證的檢視看手機的記錄裡面的一個定位是不是如它所供述的那個過程"},{"start":350.6,"end":379.559,"text":"那第二部分可能也會去注意到的是他的那個小艇那他的小艇到底是不是直接從對岸航行到台灣的岸際還是是中間有任何的船舶的接駁那也會透過那個小艇各種生物跡證的檢測來還原那相關偷渡犯他們的供詞到底正確或不正確那另外可能也會注意到的是他們這種小艇假如要用大船放下來的話一般都還是會有一個懸吊或相關的"},{"start":381.361,"end":402.578,"text":"勾類似抓放的一個痕跡那這也會去透過那個小艇的檢測來看到底真的是如供述的直接過來的還是有經過大船的投放他才在某個海峽中間點來切入到台灣的相關的海域所以這部分每個個案都要做一些還原跟釐清好 謝謝"},{"start":404.079,"end":426.161,"text":"那我再問一個問題就是比較近的問題就是局長你說收集外國的情報也是國安局的工作嘛那你最近針對了川普曾經說過要買下格林南島還有加拿大可能會變成美國的第51州這樣的結果格林南島和加拿大的領導人都怎麼說的你知道嗎"},{"start":427.943,"end":442.641,"text":"對,就從政策的角度來看可以從川普總統相關的談話那了解到他對於美國國土安全他非常的重視那因為他所關注的議題除了格林蘭那可能是敵對"},{"start":444.823,"end":467.855,"text":"國家發射導彈的一個主要的路徑那假如格陵蘭能夠跟美國比較親近的話美國在當地的軍事部署或飛彈攔截的設施雷達設施會比較好設置那另外他也提到了巴拉馬運河他還認為所有權應該要做重新的調整跟管理那從這些案例看起來從政策面的解讀可以知道的是美國川普政府"},{"start":468.375,"end":488.943,"text":"對於美國的本土安全似乎有高度的關注那這部分也比較符合他長期在講美國優先美國第一的這個概念所衍生出來的一些主張那當然他的一些相關的講法那有時候我們還要再去看他實際的政策作為是不是有類似比較具體的搭配那這我們還要再來繼續的注意"},{"start":491.164,"end":496.15,"text":"好 但是格陵南島和加拿大的領導人其實他們都說他們這些是非賣品所以我的問題就是說那現在總統在520發表演講的時候就有提到兩岸應該要用對話取代整個對抗"},{"start":506.261,"end":510.223,"text":"但是他前兩天在受訪的時候我又引用他的說法就是他說中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司那如果說你要併我的公司那你要提條件對吧這樣但是這樣的說法的時候其實真的引起了台灣人民的不安所以本席非常的擔心因為這樣說法會不會就是像"},{"start":528.092,"end":535.637,"text":"中國傳達了台灣主權可以出售的這整個訊息呢還有面對美國總統川普說要別人國家的主權併購這些領導人是不是都堅定的說我們主權其實是非賣品但是結果我們最愛講抗中保台的總統賴清德竟然提出了併購主權的說法那局長這是賴總統想要賣台了嗎還是真正的中共同路人"},{"start":554.329,"end":565.912,"text":"還有包括我們現在抓到的總統府的共諜都是賴總統派的跟中共對接的特使呢那我想說局長你是身為兩岸情報的單位首長那我想說你認為這樣的情況我剛才所說的你認為賴總統這樣的說法和比喻你覺得是恰當還是不恰當對我想我身為國安局長我不適合去評論國家引導人的每一句的談話那但是從這一段的訪談我自己我個人我也有去了解一下注意一下他的用語"},{"start":582.256,"end":609.853,"text":"那我個人在過程當中我看到的重點是賴總統特別在提醒那中共長期都有併吞台灣的意圖那不管他併吞台灣的方法或是方案是什麼都應該要尊重中華民國存在的事實以及台灣民意的意向那台灣是主權跟民主的國家那這個過程當中應該要注意到我們主權的地位跟民意的走向那這大概是我從談話內容當中我個人所看到的重點"},{"start":610.975,"end":611.316,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":429,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（11時1分）謝謝主席，有請蔡局長。"],["主席：請蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，林委員早。"],["林委員憶君：局長早安。進入今天質詢的主題之前我還是先提醒一下局長，繼上一次你們發揮「抄能力」，一字不漏的抄自己之前的新聞稿作為專報的報告之後，今天我也發現你們送來的報告似乎又有點出包了。這次行政院送到立法院正式的關係文件，整個文書的解凍報告上面有說明討論事項第14案，在82頁，針對你們預算編列的槍擊偵測系統兩套夜間攝影設備預算解凍案的報告裡面，出現了時光倒流，報告裡面是寫「自109年─100年間即起案研提需求」，把時間寫成109到100，請問局長，正確時間到底是從哪一年開始的？還有國安局是行事那麼嚴謹的國安單位，怎麼會連送來立法院的預算解凍這麼重要的正式關係文書，都會像這樣在報告上面的說明不夠嚴謹，還出現了時光倒流這個錯誤？請局長說明一下。"],["蔡局長明彥：跟委員抱歉，實際的年份應該是109年到110年。"],["林委員憶君：所以這個可能還要改進，因為不是第一次這樣。"],["蔡局長明彥：好，假如不對的地方，我們來檢討。"],["林委員憶君：OK，好。接下來還有一個問題，就是比較離譜的共諜事件，前天5月19號在賴清德總統就職滿一週年的前夕，爆出了海巡署的高官莊宗輝主任是共諜的事件。這個事件的發生讓我聯想到這幾天有兩起偷渡的案件，包括5月17號中國籍的宋姓父子搭乘橡皮艇偷渡來臺，還有一個是5月18號自稱「山東凱哥」的陸籍男子發布了整個偷渡的影片，他是在15日從福建駕駛動力的橡皮艇成功登陸桃園海岸，還插上了五星旗。當然，據我了解，偷渡的事件表面上應該是海巡署的責任，好像跟你們沒關係，但是跟你們國安局到底有沒有關係呢？國家安全就是國安局的責任，國安局主要的任務應該是負起臺海兩岸的情報工作，因為過去幾次中國偷渡客偷渡的案件中，你們國安局的報告都有提到可能是對岸灰色地帶侵擾的作為，這次抓到這一位莊宗輝主任是共諜，他負責的是金馬澎地區的勤務編排。局長，你認為抓到他把海巡勤務分配狀況洩漏給對岸的機率高不高？跟這些偷渡案件有沒有關聯？有沒有可能是這些偷渡客實際上已經掌握了整個海巡的勤務狀況，知道要怎麼樣避開海巡署的巡邏呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，就個案的部分，因為已經在司法偵辦了，所以他們相關調查的細節，一來不知道，一來關於司法偵辦的個案部分，我可能也不方便在這個場合說明。第二，在海域安全的部分，確實業管的機關是海巡署，但是海巡署在我們國安情報機關裡面視同情報機關，所以依照我們國家情報工作法跟國安局組織法，我們可以指導、統合跟協調，還有支援包括海巡署在內的情報機關跟視同情報機關相關國安情報的蒐研。所以，對於海域安全的部分，我們國安局會比較關注的是整體中共相關襲擾的樣態，個案調查部分，剛剛跟委員說明了，會由司法檢調釐清相關的案情。","不過，因為一再的發生這些個案，到底我們海防有沒有凸顯一些漏洞，這些漏洞後續海巡署該怎麼樣彌補，我們這幾天也是很密集地跟海巡署討論，也是希望他們能夠很確實地檢討每個個案所凸顯的漏洞，針對海防的漏洞做必要的彌補。這部分我們會持續地指導、協調海巡署加強相關策進的作為。"],["林委員憶君：好，我再請教局長，這兩、三年來不斷地發生這些中國偷渡來臺的案件，但是臺灣海峽號稱黑水溝，海象非常的惡劣、常常有船難，所以我想請教一下，國安局是否有很認真的看待對岸偷渡的這個事件？因為他們有時候是來自中國投奔自由的偷渡客，但怎麼那麼容易就能穿越整個臺灣海峽？而且穿過我國的海域就如入無人之境一樣。局長，你認為這是中共有系統的行動呢？還是就像你剛才說是不是分散個案？還是有其他的結論？還是你不排除是中共灰色地帶侵擾的行動？剛才海巡署統計截至5月17號止，已經累計偷渡案有5起、共有38個人了。有那麼多人偷渡，我想請教局長，以國安局情報分析的能力可以得出一個最基本的原因嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，基本上委員比較關切的是動機的部分，每一個偷渡案的動機可能都不一樣，所以必須要進去做比較深入的釐清，包括他的航程包括油料以及航行的路徑到底合不合理，也要蒐集他手機相關數位跡證來檢視，看手機紀錄裡面的定位是不是如他所供述的過程。","第二，可能也會去注意到他的小艇，他的小艇到底是不是直接從對岸航行到臺灣的岸際，還是在中間有任何船舶的接駁，也會透過小艇各種生物跡證的檢測，還原相關偷渡犯的供詞到底正確或不正確。另外，可能也會注意到他們這種小艇，假如要用大船放下來的話，一般都還是會有懸吊或相關類似抓放的痕跡，這也會透過小艇的檢測來看，到底真的如供述是直接過來的，還是有經過大船的投放，它才在某個海峽中間點切入臺灣相關的海域，所以這部分對每個個案都要做一些還原跟釐清。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。我再問一個比較近的問題，局長，你說蒐集外國的情報也是國安局的工作嘛！最近針對川普曾經說過要買下格陵蘭島，還有加拿大可能會變成美國的第51州，結果格陵蘭島和加拿大的領導人都是怎麼說的，你知道嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：從政策的角度來看，可以從川普總統相關的談話了解他對於美國國土安全非常的重視，因為他所關注的議題除了格陵蘭可能是敵對國家發射導彈的一個主要路徑，假如格陵蘭能夠跟美國比較親近的話，美國在當地的軍事部署或飛彈攔截設施、雷達設施會比較好設置。另外，他也提到巴拿馬運河，他認為所有權應該要做重新的調整跟管理。從這些案例看起來，從政策面的解讀可以知道的是，美國川普政府對於美國的本土安全似乎有高度的關注，這部分也比較符合他長期在講美國優先、美國第一的概念所延伸出來的一些主張。當然，他一些相關的講法，有時候我們還要再去看他實際的政策作為是不是有類似比較具體的搭配，這個我們還要再繼續注意。"],["林委員憶君：好，但是格陵蘭島和加拿大的領導人其實都說他們這些是非賣品。我的問題就是賴清德總統在520發表演講的時候有提到，兩岸應該要用對話取代對抗。但是我要引用他的說法，他在前兩天受訪的時候，說中國是比較大的公司，臺灣是比較小的公司，如果你要併我的公司，那你要提出條件，對吧？但是這樣的說法真的引起了臺灣人民的不安，所以本席非常的擔心，這樣的說法會不會就是向中國傳達臺灣主權可以出售的訊息呢？還有，面對美國總統川普說要併購別人的國家主權，這些領導人是不是都堅定的說主權其實是非賣品？但我們最愛講抗中保臺的總統賴清德竟然提出了併購主權的說法。局長，這是賴總統想要賣臺了嗎？還是真正的中共同路人？包括我們現在抓到的總統府共諜都是賴總統派來跟中共對接的特使？局長，你身為兩岸情報單位的首長，你認為我剛才所說的情況，對於賴總統這樣的說法和比喻，你覺得恰當還是不恰當？"],["蔡局長明彥：我想我身為國安局長，我不適合去評論國家領導人的每一句談話，但是從這一段的訪談，我個人有去了解一下、注意一下他的用語，我個人在過程當中看到的重點是，賴總統特別提醒中共長期都有併吞臺灣的意圖，不管他們併吞臺灣的方法或是方案是什麼，都應該要尊重中華民國存在的事實以及臺灣民意的意向，臺灣是有主權跟民主的國家，在這個過程當中應該要注意到我們主權的地位跟民意的走向，這大概是我個人從總統的談話內容當中所看到的重點。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘，蔡易餘委員不在。","請陳培瑜委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":42,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-16","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王定宇","林憶君","陳培瑜","陳永康"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國家安全局預算凍結案等24案","agenda_id":"1145201_00001"}}}