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\"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 64.719, \"end\": 64.819, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 64.819, \"end\": 64.899, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 64.899, \"end\": 64.919, \"score\": 0.558}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 64.919, \"end\": 65.019, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 65.019, \"end\": 65.039, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 65.039, \"end\": 65.059, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 65.059, \"end\": 65.099, \"score\": 0.491}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 65.099, \"end\": 65.119, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 65.119, \"end\": 65.139, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 68.722, \"end\": 95.481, \"text\": \"我想這個部分可能我想我沒有參與過這個但是我想應該府院也許會有討論吧也許是這樣子好那副總裁咧這個過去這個主權基金也講了蠻久的那就從這個報章媒體上面來看就是說過去比較認為說有主力都是來自於央行那我想請問一下副總裁的看法咧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 68.722, \"end\": 68.862, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 68.862, \"end\": 69.363, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 69.363, \"end\": 69.583, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 69.583, \"end\": 69.823, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 69.823, \"end\": 70.003, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 70.003, \"end\": 70.423, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 70.423, \"end\": 70.563, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 70.563, \"end\": 71.504, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 71.504, \"end\": 71.664, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 71.664, \"end\": 71.784, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 71.784, \"end\": 72.605, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 72.605, \"end\": 72.765, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 72.765, \"end\": 72.885, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 72.885, \"end\": 72.965, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 72.965, \"end\": 73.906, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 73.906, \"end\": 74.026, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 74.026, \"end\": 74.306, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 74.306, \"end\": 74.486, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 74.486, \"end\": 74.806, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 74.806, \"end\": 75.287, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 75.287, \"end\": 75.647, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 75.647, \"end\": 75.807, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"許\", 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\"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 94.02, \"end\": 94.14, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 94.14, \"end\": 94.32, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 94.32, \"end\": 94.64, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 94.64, \"end\": 94.66, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 94.66, \"end\": 94.82, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 94.82, \"end\": 95.06, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"裁\", \"start\": 95.06, \"end\": 95.16, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 95.16, \"end\": 95.261, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 95.261, \"end\": 95.461, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 95.461, \"end\": 95.481, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"咧\"}]}, {\"start\": 96.206, \"end\": 124.813, \"text\": \"我剛才已經講過我們在央行長期以來從彭淺總裁到楊總裁我們對於主權基金我們一向都主張這種我們正面去思考但是唯一我們希望透過專法或設立專責的管理機關以及外匯存底不能夠直接撥用這樣幾個原則去思考也支持設立主權基金但是不要用到外匯\", \"words\": [{\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 102.588, \"end\": 103.168, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"楊\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"裁\", \"start\": 103.168, \"end\": 103.328, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 103.328, \"end\": 103.728, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 103.728, \"end\": 103.968, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 103.968, \"end\": 104.308, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 104.308, \"end\": 104.448, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 104.448, \"end\": 104.608, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 104.608, \"end\": 104.848, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 104.848, \"end\": 105.088, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 105.088, \"end\": 105.308, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 105.308, \"end\": 105.508, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 105.508, \"end\": 107.069, 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\"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 121.752, \"end\": 121.952, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 121.952, \"end\": 122.572, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 122.572, \"end\": 122.712, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 122.712, \"end\": 122.992, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 122.992, \"end\": 123.132, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 123.132, \"end\": 124.113, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 124.113, \"end\": 124.253, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 124.253, \"end\": 124.413, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 124.413, \"end\": 124.493, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 124.493, \"end\": 124.553, \"score\": 0.656}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 124.553, \"end\": 124.653, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 124.653, \"end\": 124.793, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 124.793, \"end\": 124.813, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"匯\"}]}, {\"start\": 126.894, \"end\": 138.642, \"text\": \"壓衡的態度就是這樣,設立專法我想大家都沒有問題,那我再請教一下部長好了,因為這個主權基金就是要彰顯台灣的主權,它跟國發基金不一樣,國發基金它的投資大概就是台灣的產業,一些新興的產業,\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"壓\"}, {\"word\": \"衡\", \"start\": 126.894, \"end\": 126.994, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 126.994, \"end\": 127.274, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 127.274, \"end\": 127.374, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 127.374, \"end\": 128.035, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 128.035, \"end\": 128.635, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 128.635, \"end\": 128.935, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 128.935, \"end\": 129.075, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 129.075, \"end\": 129.155, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 129.155, \"end\": 130.296, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 130.296, \"end\": 130.396, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 130.396, \"end\": 130.436, \"score\": 0.494}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 130.436, \"end\": 130.536, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 130.536, \"end\": 130.616, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 130.616, \"end\": 132.738, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 132.738, \"end\": 132.858, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 132.858, \"end\": 132.938, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 132.938, \"end\": 133.198, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 133.198, \"end\": 133.338, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 133.338, \"end\": 133.378, \"score\": 0.656}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 133.378, \"end\": 133.538, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 133.538, \"end\": 133.819, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 133.819, \"end\": 133.959, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 133.959, \"end\": 134.459, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 134.459, \"end\": 134.559, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 134.559, \"end\": 134.579, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 134.579, \"end\": 134.599, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 134.599, \"end\": 134.639, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 134.639, \"end\": 134.799, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 134.799, \"end\": 134.859, \"score\": 0.626}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 134.859, \"end\": 135.44, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"彰\"}, {\"word\": \"顯\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 135.44, \"end\": 135.54, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 135.54, \"end\": 135.7, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 135.7, \"end\": 135.82, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 135.82, \"end\": 135.92, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 135.92, \"end\": 136.0, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 136.0, \"end\": 136.02, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 136.02, \"end\": 136.1, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 136.1, \"end\": 136.12, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 136.12, \"end\": 136.14, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 136.14, \"end\": 136.16, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 136.16, \"end\": 136.26, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 136.26, \"end\": 136.28, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 136.28, \"end\": 137.181, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 137.181, \"end\": 137.201, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 137.201, \"end\": 137.301, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 137.301, \"end\": 137.521, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 137.521, \"end\": 137.902, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 137.902, \"end\": 138.342, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 138.342, \"end\": 138.462, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 138.462, \"end\": 138.482, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 138.482, \"end\": 138.522, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 138.522, \"end\": 138.602, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 138.602, \"end\": 138.622, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"興\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 138.622, \"end\": 138.642, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}]}, {\"start\": 147.088, \"end\": 156.264, \"text\": \"那你認為說這個主權基金呢既然他是要彰顯台灣的主權那所以他投資的標的未來這個成立之後投資標的是不是就以國外的產業為主\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 147.088, \"end\": 147.248, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 147.248, \"end\": 148.11, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 148.11, \"end\": 148.41, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 148.41, \"end\": 148.571, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 148.571, \"end\": 148.711, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 148.711, \"end\": 148.911, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"既\", \"start\": 148.911, \"end\": 149.031, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 149.031, \"end\": 149.152, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 149.152, \"end\": 149.292, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 149.292, \"end\": 149.492, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 149.492, \"end\": 149.853, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"彰\"}, {\"word\": \"顯\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 149.853, \"end\": 150.133, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 150.133, \"end\": 150.233, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 150.233, \"end\": 150.995, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 150.995, \"end\": 151.295, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 151.295, \"end\": 151.395, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 151.395, \"end\": 151.476, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 151.476, \"end\": 151.616, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 151.616, \"end\": 151.776, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 151.776, \"end\": 152.157, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 152.157, \"end\": 152.357, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 152.357, \"end\": 153.519, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 153.519, \"end\": 153.639, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 153.639, \"end\": 153.819, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 153.819, \"end\": 153.94, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 153.94, \"end\": 154.36, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 154.36, \"end\": 154.621, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 154.621, \"end\": 154.881, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 154.881, \"end\": 154.981, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 154.981, \"end\": 155.042, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 155.042, \"end\": 155.202, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 155.202, \"end\": 155.322, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 155.322, \"end\": 155.683, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 155.683, \"end\": 155.903, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 155.903, 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\"text\": \"我們長期以來我們觀察到就是各個投資銀行他有他自己的預測那我覺得我們只是參考而已那因為影響到匯率或者是國際美元走勢的因素太多了我覺得用這種很直覺式的去推測就28點那我不要講那一個數字出來好了我們講一個趨勢好了那您認為說這個到年底之前台幣的走向是深\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 275.905, \"end\": 276.385, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 276.385, \"end\": 276.525, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 276.525, \"end\": 277.225, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 277.225, \"end\": 277.746, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 277.746, \"end\": 277.926, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 277.926, \"end\": 278.126, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 278.126, \"end\": 278.266, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 278.266, \"end\": 278.786, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 278.786, \"end\": 279.206, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 279.206, \"end\": 279.506, 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\"還是貶那個報告委員因為我們長期以來我們都認為匯率我們尊重市場那央行只有在出現匯率不穩定或者是有這種操作的時候我們才會進場去維持匯率的相對穩定那所以你認為說前兩週台幣突然升值這麼多快兩塊錢那你認為這樣正常嗎因為\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 305.072, \"end\": 305.953, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"貶\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 305.953, \"end\": 306.333, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 306.333, \"end\": 306.433, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 306.433, \"end\": 306.653, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 306.653, \"end\": 306.853, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 306.853, \"end\": 307.293, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 307.293, \"end\": 307.413, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 307.413, \"end\": 307.653, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 307.653, \"end\": 307.793, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": 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\"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 322.64, \"end\": 322.74, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 322.74, \"end\": 322.84, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 322.84, \"end\": 322.86, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}]}, {\"start\": 329.773, \"end\": 351.846, \"text\": \"我想那是一個操作策略也是透過這樣子的一種方式來降低大家對生殖的預期一種這過去我們也有採取類似的操作策略過因為楊總裁有提到說這個央行在這個新興之火開始的時候沒有去撲滅然後後來呢這個造成這個新火燎原之勢了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 329.773, \"end\": 329.893, \"score\": 0.641}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 329.893, \"end\": 330.053, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 330.053, \"end\": 330.213, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 330.213, \"end\": 330.333, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 330.333, \"end\": 330.854, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"操\", \"start\": 330.854, \"end\": 331.094, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 331.094, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 351.826, \"end\": 351.846, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 352.526, \"end\": 380.668, \"text\": \"那接下來我想請問一下那央行對於說如果這個美元有可能會傾向弱勢的貨幣台幣有可能相對轉強那央行相對的做法是怎麼樣我想美元弱勢或強勢它自己國內也有不同的看法所以我們在這種美元波動的時候不管它是弱勢強勢會影響到台幣匯率的時候我們的一個前提就是維持匯率的相對穩定\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 352.526, \"end\": 352.686, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 352.686, \"end\": 352.826, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 352.826, \"end\": 353.507, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 353.507, \"end\": 353.607, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 353.607, \"end\": 354.007, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 354.007, \"end\": 354.067, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 354.067, \"end\": 354.388, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 354.388, \"end\": 354.588, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 354.588, \"end\": 354.748, \"score\": 0.93}, 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\"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 836.465, \"end\": 836.647, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 836.647, \"end\": 836.667, \"score\": 0.437}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,016 --> 00:00:24,266\n總統在520有一個重要的宣示要設立主權基金這是大概是有史以來除了院長之外總統是第一個講的要設立主權基金所以方向已經非常明確了我記得我們上禮拜專報大家還在討論說\n\n2\n00:00:27,088 --> 00:00:38,775\n這個要不要設怎麼設那專法怎麼弄然後這個這個裁員從哪裡來那我先請教一下部長那總統已經有這個宣示了那你們有沒有一個節奏那接下來要怎麼做\n\n3\n00:00:41,721 --> 00:01:05,139\n有關這個主權基金後續的一個相關做法行政院會邀請相關部會來做討論跟演繹規劃主要是國發會嗎這個部分當然包含國發會、央行以及財主單位等等那財政部要做的咧這個部分要等在行政院召開會議的時候會再一起討論那所以總統宣誓之前你們都不知道說這個總統會講說510會講一個主權基金出來\n\n4\n00:01:08,722 --> 00:01:35,481\n我想這個部分可能我想我沒有參與過這個但是我想應該府院也許會有討論吧也許是這樣子好那副總裁咧這個過去這個主權基金也講了蠻久的那就從這個報章媒體上面來看就是說過去比較認為說有主力都是來自於央行那我想請問一下副總裁的看法咧\n\n5\n00:01:36,206 --> 00:02:04,813\n我剛才已經講過我們在央行長期以來從彭淺總裁到楊總裁我們對於主權基金我們一向都主張這種我們正面去思考但是唯一我們希望透過專法或設立專責的管理機關以及外匯存底不能夠直接撥用這樣幾個原則去思考也支持設立主權基金但是不要用到外匯\n\n6\n00:02:06,894 --> 00:02:18,642\n壓衡的態度就是這樣,設立專法我想大家都沒有問題,那我再請教一下部長好了,因為這個主權基金就是要彰顯台灣的主權,它跟國發基金不一樣,國發基金它的投資大概就是台灣的產業,一些新興的產業,\n\n7\n00:02:27,088 --> 00:02:36,264\n那你認為說這個主權基金呢既然他是要彰顯台灣的主權那所以他投資的標的未來這個成立之後投資標的是不是就以國外的產業為主\n\n8\n00:02:38,029 --> 00:02:56,821\n我想這個部分都還要再做詳細的規劃跟討論那請教部長的意見第一個我們要先看設置的一個目的然後第二個就是說要選擇什麼樣的一個產業以及未來的機制要怎麼樣去建立我覺得這應該要整體來做考量的那我是說\n\n9\n00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:11,711\n這個其實總統他的裡面也是講很清楚啦就是說這個是要投資這個國外產業那尤其我們有提到說這次關稅我們有提到說我們要籌組一個台灣投資美國隊委員長這兩個是不是有關聯性會在討論的時候也許可以做一個詳細規劃部長講得非常的保守\n\n10\n00:03:20,941 --> 00:03:28,876\n那您認為呢如果是主權基金成立那投資產業大概以什麼方向為主\n\n11\n00:03:31,176 --> 00:03:52,556\n這個部分我覺得這個我還是想就是說這個主權基金成立以後它的整個機制的一個操作模式跟未來投資的一個規劃方向都必須要有一個專責的一個投資機構來做處理而不是說我們自己在這邊個人或者是這樣來表達這樣的一個意見是好沒關係那部長先請為好了我請教副總裁\n\n12\n00:03:55,344 --> 00:04:01,351\n這個這幾天沒提美國銀行他有提到說預測啦台幣有可能到年底的時候會升到28.8元\n\n13\n00:04:03,649 --> 00:04:11,671\n然後呢因為他們認為說這個美元大概會長就是到年底的時間大概會走弱所以台幣有可能會轉強所以有可能會再升值他預測年底會到28.8然後高盛也預測就是說如果這個\n\n14\n00:04:23,916 --> 00:04:34,055\n亚洲各国跟美国进行贸易协商的话将使亚洲的货币更难贬值然后他预测这个海币跟海元会升值我请教一下这个副总裁的看法\n\n15\n00:04:35,905 --> 00:05:04,012\n我們長期以來我們觀察到就是各個投資銀行他有他自己的預測那我覺得我們只是參考而已那因為影響到匯率或者是國際美元走勢的因素太多了我覺得用這種很直覺式的去推測就28點那我不要講那一個數字出來好了我們講一個趨勢好了那您認為說這個到年底之前台幣的走向是深\n\n16\n00:05:05,072 --> 00:05:22,860\n還是貶那個報告委員因為我們長期以來我們都認為匯率我們尊重市場那央行只有在出現匯率不穩定或者是有這種操作的時候我們才會進場去維持匯率的相對穩定那所以你認為說前兩週台幣突然升值這麼多快兩塊錢那你認為這樣正常嗎因為\n\n17\n00:05:29,773 --> 00:05:51,846\n我想那是一個操作策略也是透過這樣子的一種方式來降低大家對生殖的預期一種這過去我們也有採取類似的操作策略過因為楊總裁有提到說這個央行在這個新興之火開始的時候沒有去撲滅然後後來呢這個造成這個新火燎原之勢了\n\n18\n00:05:52,526 --> 00:06:20,668\n那接下來我想請問一下那央行對於說如果這個美元有可能會傾向弱勢的貨幣台幣有可能相對轉強那央行相對的做法是怎麼樣我想美元弱勢或強勢它自己國內也有不同的看法所以我們在這種美元波動的時候不管它是弱勢強勢會影響到台幣匯率的時候我們的一個前提就是維持匯率的相對穩定\n\n19\n00:06:22,770 --> 00:06:36,514\n目前台幣的匯率有穩定嗎目前我們認為4月底5月初已經相對的穩定很多了好謝謝副總裁那我再請教一下中部長好了來部長請教一下那個房屋稅2.0新制是今年開始徵收嗎是不是\n\n20\n00:06:51,225 --> 00:07:18,578\n從去年7月1號開始實施今年是首度開徵2.0來做標準來課徵的那我們房屋稅的這個繳稅期限是到哪時候正常來說是到5月底那今年因為是第一次的開徵嘛第一次開徵有發生一些狀況然後這個部分如果要更正稅單等等的話都可以延後就是說由稅均積增機關重新開單然後期限繳款期限往後延\n\n21\n00:07:19,281 --> 00:07:34,547\n那你們地帶是不是設在6月2號嗎6月2號是說本來你要在3月24號以前來申報自住的話你沒有在這個時間來申報就是說你要簽了戶籍然後申報自住你沒有在時間但是因為第一年實施這樣情況所以我們認為說把它延後到6月2號之前你來\n\n22\n00:07:38,548 --> 00:07:58,877\n辦理這樣的一個事情就可以用自住的稅率來課徵那6月2號沒有延啊那本來就是你們5月底就是要申報啦房屋稅本來就是要申報到5月底那只是因為遇到假日變成6月2號而已啊那個一個是繳納期限一個就是說你是自住的話你來就是說你簽了戶籍簽進去了然後你來告訴我們說我已經簽完戶籍了我要用自住的稅率來課徵我們本來是訂在3月24號\n\n23\n00:08:03,018 --> 00:08:25,043\n因為是今年第一年實施那些那我是說繳納期限繳納期限的話繳納期限正常是到五月底嘛對啊因為有假日就到六月二號啦對不對對對對因為有到假日就延到六月二號我的意思是說我們這個所得稅本來是到五月三十一號也是到六月二號啦然後因為這個關稅的問題我們延長到六月三十號嘛\n\n24\n00:08:27,492 --> 00:08:39,458\n對不對那我的意思是說那如果這樣子因為房屋稅2.0是新制啦那又這個新制的過程當中又遇到一些比如說雙北也出現這個問題有沒有這個機會也把這個房屋稅減到期限延到6月30號\n\n25\n00:08:41,038 --> 00:09:04,188\n委員報告所得稅跟訪問稅不一樣所得稅是我們來做申報不管盈利事業或者綜合所得稅的中所個人都是自己來申報所以當時因為關稅政策的關係為了避免相關的盈利事業他在這個短短一方面他要應應這個關稅的措施而去調整他相關的訂單等等造成在這個五月份有一點措手不及所以把\n\n26\n00:09:04,888 --> 00:09:17,054\n申報的期限延到六月底但是房屋稅這個部分是屬於抵測稅是由地方政府來開單來做課徵那如果你沒有問題的話你就去繳那目前是的確發生問題啦如果發生問題的話只要有任何反應的話重新開稅單那他的繳款期限就自然是往後延的所以就沒有說一定是那個最後定來是六月二號的問題就對了\n\n27\n00:09:29,521 --> 00:09:51,662\n6月2號這個繳款期限沒有問題的都還是沒有問題有問題的人他會自然延後嗎他就會往後延對對對這個部分我們也趕快會發函給地方政府請他務必要這樣做那其實依照現行規定就可以但我們請他們趕快這樣做也讓納稅一五人可以安心那所以說這樣子的話大概會延到多久呢延到多久就看他重新開單的一個時間\n\n28\n00:09:53,704 --> 00:10:05,910\n所以就不是說以新開單的日期為主就對了新開單期限會拉多久呢?會拉一半多久,大概是開單之後的一個月那我再請教一下,這個工業輸出人其實政府也蠻鼓勵的\n\n29\n00:10:15,054 --> 00:10:31,516\n那工業出租人他有一些匯率上的優稅房屋稅、地價稅還有綜合所的稅其實都有優惠那我請教一下那現在就是說人有一些因素造成就是說這個工業出租人他這個要\n\n30\n00:10:32,357 --> 00:10:56,156\n這個要把房子變成這個你要讓這個有租金的人來租變成公益出租人還是有兩點會有一些疑慮第一個土地增值稅的優惠沒有了第二個呢房地合一稅的免稅也沒有了那我在想說為了要鼓勵這個公益出租人的話那財政部有沒有在這個土地增值稅的優惠跟房地合一稅的優惠有沒有比較這個更進一步的一個改善的一個做法\n\n31\n00:10:58,031 --> 00:11:13,924\n這個部分第一個我們在地價稅跟房屋稅還有中手稅的部分對公益出租人有一些租稅的優惠最主要就是在持有稅的時候你在持有期間我們希望你把房子租出去然後同時讓成租人可以去申請租金補貼讓自己成為公益出租人\n\n32\n00:11:14,324 --> 00:11:41,905\n但是土地增值稅或房地合一稅最主要是在你這房地在買賣交易的時候你有所得的部分好譬如說以土地增值稅就有一個概念就是所謂漲價歸公嘛漲價歸公那這個部分那譬如說你房地合一就是我們把它算起來以前房屋沒有所謂的要課這交易要課所得稅所以把它計算這是交易的時候你有所得那才要課稅我想這兩個意義上基本上是不太一樣的這個會造成說有一些齁它\n\n33\n00:11:43,187 --> 00:11:46,461\n他有租人他可能也是工業出租人\n\n34\n00:11:47,239 --> 00:12:12,932\n但是他就怕說他未來沒有這一個土地增值稅或是說這一個房地合一稅的優惠他變成就是說他會跟他的房客講就是說雖然你是公益的出租人的房客但是為了我後來我如果要房子要買賣的時候我沒辦法享受到這些優惠然後就變成說他沒有去變成這個公益出租人去做申報\n\n35\n00:12:15,375 --> 00:12:35,367\n就是說他或許在這個工業這個出租人這一塊的優惠比如說房屋嗎地價或是說眾所隨他可能沒有拿到但是他萬一如果說房子有買賣的話還一比較相還發現說那我如果沒有去報這個工業出租人其實他可能這一個在這個稅率上面他其實會更優惠啊會造成這種情況啊那個\n\n36\n00:12:38,191 --> 00:12:56,896\n你的意思就是他可能就覺得說如果我現在房子出租了我將來在賣的時候我的稅就不會土增稅還有房地利稅會課得比較重所以你不要去報出租這個基本上我們認為就是說所謂的租屋黑市本來就是因為我們要查緝的你有出租你就該繳稅就要繳稅好那對於出租對於公益出租人來說他我們在他的持有期間已經給你稅負的一個優惠了這兩者我覺得那當然啦就是說他持有的\n\n37\n00:13:05,538 --> 00:13:18,606\n他持有的這個房屋地價跟這個眾所稅有優惠了那我的意思是說如果在鼓勵這個公益出租人這個情況之下你們有考慮就是說這個土地增值稅跟房地合一稅這方面的這個稅率在給予優惠嗎\n\n38\n00:13:21,023 --> 00:13:42,387\n這個部分我想這個部分可能要審慎的研議因為兩者稅的一個目的是不太一樣要審慎研議也就是說因為房地合一稅事實上是有價差你有價差的才會有課徵反正這個會後我再請教你們好了是謝謝謝謝主席謝謝李坤臣委員這個題很好研議一下接著我們請嚴坤臣委員\n\n39\n00:13:54,688 --> 00:13:56,667\n謝謝主席各位電視觀眾大家好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12016\t24266\t總統在520有一個重要的宣示要設立主權基金這是大概是有史以來除了院長之外總統是第一個講的要設立主權基金所以方向已經非常明確了我記得我們上禮拜專報大家還在討論說\n27088\t38775\t這個要不要設怎麼設那專法怎麼弄然後這個這個裁員從哪裡來那我先請教一下部長那總統已經有這個宣示了那你們有沒有一個節奏那接下來要怎麼做\n41721\t65139\t有關這個主權基金後續的一個相關做法行政院會邀請相關部會來做討論跟演繹規劃主要是國發會嗎這個部分當然包含國發會、央行以及財主單位等等那財政部要做的咧這個部分要等在行政院召開會議的時候會再一起討論那所以總統宣誓之前你們都不知道說這個總統會講說510會講一個主權基金出來\n68722\t95481\t我想這個部分可能我想我沒有參與過這個但是我想應該府院也許會有討論吧也許是這樣子好那副總裁咧這個過去這個主權基金也講了蠻久的那就從這個報章媒體上面來看就是說過去比較認為說有主力都是來自於央行那我想請問一下副總裁的看法咧\n96206\t124813\t我剛才已經講過我們在央行長期以來從彭淺總裁到楊總裁我們對於主權基金我們一向都主張這種我們正面去思考但是唯一我們希望透過專法或設立專責的管理機關以及外匯存底不能夠直接撥用這樣幾個原則去思考也支持設立主權基金但是不要用到外匯\n126894\t138642\t壓衡的態度就是這樣,設立專法我想大家都沒有問題,那我再請教一下部長好了,因為這個主權基金就是要彰顯台灣的主權,它跟國發基金不一樣,國發基金它的投資大概就是台灣的產業,一些新興的產業,\n147088\t156264\t那你認為說這個主權基金呢既然他是要彰顯台灣的主權那所以他投資的標的未來這個成立之後投資標的是不是就以國外的產業為主\n158029\t176821\t我想這個部分都還要再做詳細的規劃跟討論那請教部長的意見第一個我們要先看設置的一個目的然後第二個就是說要選擇什麼樣的一個產業以及未來的機制要怎麼樣去建立我覺得這應該要整體來做考量的那我是說\n178520\t191711\t這個其實總統他的裡面也是講很清楚啦就是說這個是要投資這個國外產業那尤其我們有提到說這次關稅我們有提到說我們要籌組一個台灣投資美國隊委員長這兩個是不是有關聯性會在討論的時候也許可以做一個詳細規劃部長講得非常的保守\n200941\t208876\t那您認為呢 如果是主權基金成立 那投資產業大概以什麼方向為主\n211176\t232556\t這個部分我覺得這個我還是想就是說這個主權基金成立以後它的整個機制的一個操作模式跟未來投資的一個規劃方向都必須要有一個專責的一個投資機構來做處理而不是說我們自己在這邊個人或者是這樣來表達這樣的一個意見是好沒關係那部長先請為好了我請教副總裁\n235344\t241351\t這個這幾天沒提美國銀行他有提到說預測啦台幣有可能到年底的時候會升到28.8元\n243649\t251671\t然後呢 因為他們認為說這個美元大概會長就是到年底的時間大概會走弱所以台幣有可能會轉強所以有可能會再升值他預測年底會到28.8然後高盛也預測就是說如果這個\n263916\t274055\t亚洲各国跟美国进行贸易协商的话将使亚洲的货币更难贬值然后他预测这个海币跟海元会升值我请教一下这个副总裁的看法\n275905\t304012\t我們長期以來我們觀察到就是各個投資銀行他有他自己的預測那我覺得我們只是參考而已那因為影響到匯率或者是國際美元走勢的因素太多了我覺得用這種很直覺式的去推測就28點那我不要講那一個數字出來好了我們講一個趨勢好了那您認為說這個到年底之前台幣的走向是深\n305072\t322860\t還是貶那個報告委員因為我們長期以來我們都認為匯率我們尊重市場那央行只有在出現匯率不穩定或者是有這種操作的時候我們才會進場去維持匯率的相對穩定那所以你認為說前兩週台幣突然升值這麼多快兩塊錢那你認為這樣正常嗎因為\n329773\t351846\t我想那是一個操作策略也是透過這樣子的一種方式來降低大家對生殖的預期一種這過去我們也有採取類似的操作策略過因為楊總裁有提到說這個央行在這個新興之火開始的時候沒有去撲滅然後後來呢這個造成這個新火燎原之勢了\n352526\t380668\t那接下來我想請問一下那央行對於說如果這個美元有可能會傾向弱勢的貨幣台幣有可能相對轉強那央行相對的做法是怎麼樣我想美元弱勢或強勢它自己國內也有不同的看法所以我們在這種美元波動的時候不管它是弱勢強勢會影響到台幣匯率的時候我們的一個前提就是維持匯率的相對穩定\n382770\t396514\t目前台幣的匯率有穩定嗎目前我們認為4月底5月初已經相對的穩定很多了好 謝謝副總裁那我再請教一下中部長好了來 部長 請教一下那個房屋稅2.0新制是今年開始徵收嗎 是不是\n411225\t438578\t從去年7月1號開始實施今年是首度開徵2.0來做標準來課徵的那我們房屋稅的這個繳稅期限是到哪時候正常來說是到5月底那今年因為是第一次的開徵嘛第一次開徵有發生一些狀況然後這個部分如果要更正稅單等等的話都可以延後就是說由稅均積增機關重新開單然後期限繳款期限往後延\n439281\t454547\t那你們地帶是不是設在6月2號嗎6月2號是說本來你要在3月24號以前來申報自住的話你沒有在這個時間來申報就是說你要簽了戶籍然後申報自住你沒有在時間但是因為第一年實施這樣情況所以我們認為說把它延後到6月2號之前你來\n458548\t478877\t辦理這樣的一個事情就可以用自住的稅率來課徵那6月2號沒有延啊那本來就是你們5月底就是要申報啦房屋稅本來就是要申報到5月底那只是因為遇到假日變成6月2號而已啊那個一個是繳納期限一個就是說你是自住的話你來就是說你簽了戶籍簽進去了然後你來告訴我們說我已經簽完戶籍了我要用自住的稅率來課徵我們本來是訂在3月24號\n483018\t505043\t因為是今年第一年實施那些那我是說繳納期限繳納期限的話繳納期限正常是到五月底嘛對啊因為有假日就到六月二號啦對不對對對對因為有到假日就延到六月二號我的意思是說我們這個所得稅本來是到五月三十一號也是到六月二號啦然後因為這個關稅的問題我們延長到六月三十號嘛\n507492\t519458\t對不對那我的意思是說那如果這樣子因為房屋稅2.0是新制啦那又這個新制的過程當中又遇到一些比如說雙北也出現這個問題有沒有這個機會也把這個房屋稅減到期限延到6月30號\n521038\t544188\t委員報告所得稅跟訪問稅不一樣所得稅是我們來做申報不管盈利事業或者綜合所得稅的中所個人都是自己來申報所以當時因為關稅政策的關係為了避免相關的盈利事業他在這個短短一方面他要應應這個關稅的措施而去調整他相關的訂單等等造成在這個五月份有一點措手不及所以把\n544888\t557054\t申報的期限延到六月底但是房屋稅這個部分是屬於抵測稅是由地方政府來開單來做課徵那如果你沒有問題的話你就去繳那目前是的確發生問題啦如果發生問題的話只要有任何反應的話重新開稅單那他的繳款期限就自然是往後延的所以就沒有說一定是那個最後定來是六月二號的問題就對了\n569521\t591662\t6月2號這個繳款期限沒有問題的都還是沒有問題有問題的人他會自然延後嗎他就會往後延 對對對這個部分我們也趕快會發函給地方政府請他務必要這樣做那其實依照現行規定就可以但我們請他們趕快這樣做也讓納稅一五人可以安心那所以說這樣子的話大概會延到多久呢延到多久就看他重新開單的一個時間\n593704\t605910\t所以就不是說以新開單的日期為主就對了新開單期限會拉多久呢?會拉一半多久,大概是開單之後的一個月那我再請教一下,這個工業輸出人其實政府也蠻鼓勵的\n615054\t631516\t那工業出租人他有一些匯率上的優稅房屋稅、地價稅還有綜合所的稅其實都有優惠那我請教一下那現在就是說人有一些因素造成就是說這個工業出租人他這個要\n632357\t656156\t這個要把房子變成這個你要讓這個有租金的人來租變成公益出租人還是有兩點會有一些疑慮第一個土地增值稅的優惠沒有了第二個呢房地合一稅的免稅也沒有了那我在想說為了要鼓勵這個公益出租人的話那財政部有沒有在這個土地增值稅的優惠跟房地合一稅的優惠有沒有比較這個更進一步的一個改善的一個做法\n658031\t673924\t這個部分第一個我們在地價稅跟房屋稅還有中手稅的部分對公益出租人有一些租稅的優惠最主要就是在持有稅的時候你在持有期間我們希望你把房子租出去然後同時讓成租人可以去申請租金補貼讓自己成為公益出租人\n674324\t701905\t但是土地增值稅或房地合一稅最主要是在你這房地在買賣交易的時候你有所得的部分好譬如說以土地增值稅就有一個概念就是所謂漲價歸公嘛漲價歸公那這個部分那譬如說你房地合一就是我們把它算起來以前房屋沒有所謂的要課這交易要課所得稅所以把它計算這是交易的時候你有所得那才要課稅我想這兩個意義上基本上是不太一樣的這個會造成說有一些齁它\n703187\t706461\t他有租人他可能也是工業出租人\n707239\t732932\t但是他就怕說他未來沒有這一個土地增值稅或是說這一個房地合一稅的優惠他變成就是說他會跟他的房客講就是說雖然你是公益的出租人的房客但是為了我後來我如果要房子要買賣的時候我沒辦法享受到這些優惠然後就變成說他沒有去變成這個公益出租人去做申報\n735375\t755367\t就是說他或許在這個工業這個出租人這一塊的優惠比如說房屋嗎地價或是說眾所隨他可能沒有拿到但是他萬一如果說房子有買賣的話還一比較相還發現說那我如果沒有去報這個工業出租人其實他可能這一個在這個稅率上面他其實會更優惠啊會造成這種情況啊那個\n758191\t776896\t你的意思就是他可能就覺得說如果我現在房子出租了我將來在賣的時候我的稅就不會土增稅還有房地利稅會課得比較重所以你不要去報出租這個基本上我們認為就是說所謂的租屋黑市本來就是因為我們要查緝的你有出租你就該繳稅就要繳稅好那對於出租對於公益出租人來說他我們在他的持有期間已經給你稅負的一個優惠了這兩者我覺得那當然啦就是說他持有的\n785538\t798606\t他持有的這個房屋地價跟這個眾所稅有優惠了那我的意思是說如果在鼓勵這個公益出租人這個情況之下你們有考慮就是說這個土地增值稅跟房地合一稅這方面的這個稅率在給予優惠嗎\n801023\t822387\t這個部分我想這個部分可能要審慎的研議因為兩者稅的一個目的是不太一樣要審慎研議也就是說因為房地合一稅事實上是有價差你有價差的才會有課徵反正這個會後我再請教你們好了是謝謝謝謝主席謝謝李坤臣委員這個題很好研議一下接著我們請嚴坤臣委員\n834688\t836667\t謝謝主席 各位電視觀眾大家好\n","txt":"總統在520有一個重要的宣示要設立主權基金這是大概是有史以來除了院長之外總統是第一個講的要設立主權基金所以方向已經非常明確了我記得我們上禮拜專報大家還在討論說\n這個要不要設怎麼設那專法怎麼弄然後這個這個裁員從哪裡來那我先請教一下部長那總統已經有這個宣示了那你們有沒有一個節奏那接下來要怎麼做\n有關這個主權基金後續的一個相關做法行政院會邀請相關部會來做討論跟演繹規劃主要是國發會嗎這個部分當然包含國發會、央行以及財主單位等等那財政部要做的咧這個部分要等在行政院召開會議的時候會再一起討論那所以總統宣誓之前你們都不知道說這個總統會講說510會講一個主權基金出來\n我想這個部分可能我想我沒有參與過這個但是我想應該府院也許會有討論吧也許是這樣子好那副總裁咧這個過去這個主權基金也講了蠻久的那就從這個報章媒體上面來看就是說過去比較認為說有主力都是來自於央行那我想請問一下副總裁的看法咧\n我剛才已經講過我們在央行長期以來從彭淺總裁到楊總裁我們對於主權基金我們一向都主張這種我們正面去思考但是唯一我們希望透過專法或設立專責的管理機關以及外匯存底不能夠直接撥用這樣幾個原則去思考也支持設立主權基金但是不要用到外匯\n壓衡的態度就是這樣,設立專法我想大家都沒有問題,那我再請教一下部長好了,因為這個主權基金就是要彰顯台灣的主權,它跟國發基金不一樣,國發基金它的投資大概就是台灣的產業,一些新興的產業,\n那你認為說這個主權基金呢既然他是要彰顯台灣的主權那所以他投資的標的未來這個成立之後投資標的是不是就以國外的產業為主\n我想這個部分都還要再做詳細的規劃跟討論那請教部長的意見第一個我們要先看設置的一個目的然後第二個就是說要選擇什麼樣的一個產業以及未來的機制要怎麼樣去建立我覺得這應該要整體來做考量的那我是說\n這個其實總統他的裡面也是講很清楚啦就是說這個是要投資這個國外產業那尤其我們有提到說這次關稅我們有提到說我們要籌組一個台灣投資美國隊委員長這兩個是不是有關聯性會在討論的時候也許可以做一個詳細規劃部長講得非常的保守\n那您認為呢 如果是主權基金成立 那投資產業大概以什麼方向為主\n這個部分我覺得這個我還是想就是說這個主權基金成立以後它的整個機制的一個操作模式跟未來投資的一個規劃方向都必須要有一個專責的一個投資機構來做處理而不是說我們自己在這邊個人或者是這樣來表達這樣的一個意見是好沒關係那部長先請為好了我請教副總裁\n這個這幾天沒提美國銀行他有提到說預測啦台幣有可能到年底的時候會升到28.8元\n然後呢 因為他們認為說這個美元大概會長就是到年底的時間大概會走弱所以台幣有可能會轉強所以有可能會再升值他預測年底會到28.8然後高盛也預測就是說如果這個\n亚洲各国跟美国进行贸易协商的话将使亚洲的货币更难贬值然后他预测这个海币跟海元会升值我请教一下这个副总裁的看法\n我們長期以來我們觀察到就是各個投資銀行他有他自己的預測那我覺得我們只是參考而已那因為影響到匯率或者是國際美元走勢的因素太多了我覺得用這種很直覺式的去推測就28點那我不要講那一個數字出來好了我們講一個趨勢好了那您認為說這個到年底之前台幣的走向是深\n還是貶那個報告委員因為我們長期以來我們都認為匯率我們尊重市場那央行只有在出現匯率不穩定或者是有這種操作的時候我們才會進場去維持匯率的相對穩定那所以你認為說前兩週台幣突然升值這麼多快兩塊錢那你認為這樣正常嗎因為\n我想那是一個操作策略也是透過這樣子的一種方式來降低大家對生殖的預期一種這過去我們也有採取類似的操作策略過因為楊總裁有提到說這個央行在這個新興之火開始的時候沒有去撲滅然後後來呢這個造成這個新火燎原之勢了\n那接下來我想請問一下那央行對於說如果這個美元有可能會傾向弱勢的貨幣台幣有可能相對轉強那央行相對的做法是怎麼樣我想美元弱勢或強勢它自己國內也有不同的看法所以我們在這種美元波動的時候不管它是弱勢強勢會影響到台幣匯率的時候我們的一個前提就是維持匯率的相對穩定\n目前台幣的匯率有穩定嗎目前我們認為4月底5月初已經相對的穩定很多了好 謝謝副總裁那我再請教一下中部長好了來 部長 請教一下那個房屋稅2.0新制是今年開始徵收嗎 是不是\n從去年7月1號開始實施今年是首度開徵2.0來做標準來課徵的那我們房屋稅的這個繳稅期限是到哪時候正常來說是到5月底那今年因為是第一次的開徵嘛第一次開徵有發生一些狀況然後這個部分如果要更正稅單等等的話都可以延後就是說由稅均積增機關重新開單然後期限繳款期限往後延\n那你們地帶是不是設在6月2號嗎6月2號是說本來你要在3月24號以前來申報自住的話你沒有在這個時間來申報就是說你要簽了戶籍然後申報自住你沒有在時間但是因為第一年實施這樣情況所以我們認為說把它延後到6月2號之前你來\n辦理這樣的一個事情就可以用自住的稅率來課徵那6月2號沒有延啊那本來就是你們5月底就是要申報啦房屋稅本來就是要申報到5月底那只是因為遇到假日變成6月2號而已啊那個一個是繳納期限一個就是說你是自住的話你來就是說你簽了戶籍簽進去了然後你來告訴我們說我已經簽完戶籍了我要用自住的稅率來課徵我們本來是訂在3月24號\n因為是今年第一年實施那些那我是說繳納期限繳納期限的話繳納期限正常是到五月底嘛對啊因為有假日就到六月二號啦對不對對對對因為有到假日就延到六月二號我的意思是說我們這個所得稅本來是到五月三十一號也是到六月二號啦然後因為這個關稅的問題我們延長到六月三十號嘛\n對不對那我的意思是說那如果這樣子因為房屋稅2.0是新制啦那又這個新制的過程當中又遇到一些比如說雙北也出現這個問題有沒有這個機會也把這個房屋稅減到期限延到6月30號\n委員報告所得稅跟訪問稅不一樣所得稅是我們來做申報不管盈利事業或者綜合所得稅的中所個人都是自己來申報所以當時因為關稅政策的關係為了避免相關的盈利事業他在這個短短一方面他要應應這個關稅的措施而去調整他相關的訂單等等造成在這個五月份有一點措手不及所以把\n申報的期限延到六月底但是房屋稅這個部分是屬於抵測稅是由地方政府來開單來做課徵那如果你沒有問題的話你就去繳那目前是的確發生問題啦如果發生問題的話只要有任何反應的話重新開稅單那他的繳款期限就自然是往後延的所以就沒有說一定是那個最後定來是六月二號的問題就對了\n6月2號這個繳款期限沒有問題的都還是沒有問題有問題的人他會自然延後嗎他就會往後延 對對對這個部分我們也趕快會發函給地方政府請他務必要這樣做那其實依照現行規定就可以但我們請他們趕快這樣做也讓納稅一五人可以安心那所以說這樣子的話大概會延到多久呢延到多久就看他重新開單的一個時間\n所以就不是說以新開單的日期為主就對了新開單期限會拉多久呢?會拉一半多久,大概是開單之後的一個月那我再請教一下,這個工業輸出人其實政府也蠻鼓勵的\n那工業出租人他有一些匯率上的優稅房屋稅、地價稅還有綜合所的稅其實都有優惠那我請教一下那現在就是說人有一些因素造成就是說這個工業出租人他這個要\n這個要把房子變成這個你要讓這個有租金的人來租變成公益出租人還是有兩點會有一些疑慮第一個土地增值稅的優惠沒有了第二個呢房地合一稅的免稅也沒有了那我在想說為了要鼓勵這個公益出租人的話那財政部有沒有在這個土地增值稅的優惠跟房地合一稅的優惠有沒有比較這個更進一步的一個改善的一個做法\n這個部分第一個我們在地價稅跟房屋稅還有中手稅的部分對公益出租人有一些租稅的優惠最主要就是在持有稅的時候你在持有期間我們希望你把房子租出去然後同時讓成租人可以去申請租金補貼讓自己成為公益出租人\n但是土地增值稅或房地合一稅最主要是在你這房地在買賣交易的時候你有所得的部分好譬如說以土地增值稅就有一個概念就是所謂漲價歸公嘛漲價歸公那這個部分那譬如說你房地合一就是我們把它算起來以前房屋沒有所謂的要課這交易要課所得稅所以把它計算這是交易的時候你有所得那才要課稅我想這兩個意義上基本上是不太一樣的這個會造成說有一些齁它\n他有租人他可能也是工業出租人\n但是他就怕說他未來沒有這一個土地增值稅或是說這一個房地合一稅的優惠他變成就是說他會跟他的房客講就是說雖然你是公益的出租人的房客但是為了我後來我如果要房子要買賣的時候我沒辦法享受到這些優惠然後就變成說他沒有去變成這個公益出租人去做申報\n就是說他或許在這個工業這個出租人這一塊的優惠比如說房屋嗎地價或是說眾所隨他可能沒有拿到但是他萬一如果說房子有買賣的話還一比較相還發現說那我如果沒有去報這個工業出租人其實他可能這一個在這個稅率上面他其實會更優惠啊會造成這種情況啊那個\n你的意思就是他可能就覺得說如果我現在房子出租了我將來在賣的時候我的稅就不會土增稅還有房地利稅會課得比較重所以你不要去報出租這個基本上我們認為就是說所謂的租屋黑市本來就是因為我們要查緝的你有出租你就該繳稅就要繳稅好那對於出租對於公益出租人來說他我們在他的持有期間已經給你稅負的一個優惠了這兩者我覺得那當然啦就是說他持有的\n他持有的這個房屋地價跟這個眾所稅有優惠了那我的意思是說如果在鼓勵這個公益出租人這個情況之下你們有考慮就是說這個土地增值稅跟房地合一稅這方面的這個稅率在給予優惠嗎\n這個部分我想這個部分可能要審慎的研議因為兩者稅的一個目的是不太一樣要審慎研議也就是說因為房地合一稅事實上是有價差你有價差的才會有課徵反正這個會後我再請教你們好了是謝謝謝謝主席謝謝李坤臣委員這個題很好研議一下接著我們請嚴坤臣委員\n謝謝主席 各位電視觀眾大家好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.016 --> 00:24.266\n總統在520有一個重要的宣示要設立主權基金這是大概是有史以來除了院長之外總統是第一個講的要設立主權基金所以方向已經非常明確了我記得我們上禮拜專報大家還在討論說\n\n00:27.088 --> 00:38.775\n這個要不要設怎麼設那專法怎麼弄然後這個這個裁員從哪裡來那我先請教一下部長那總統已經有這個宣示了那你們有沒有一個節奏那接下來要怎麼做\n\n00:41.721 --> 01:05.139\n有關這個主權基金後續的一個相關做法行政院會邀請相關部會來做討論跟演繹規劃主要是國發會嗎這個部分當然包含國發會、央行以及財主單位等等那財政部要做的咧這個部分要等在行政院召開會議的時候會再一起討論那所以總統宣誓之前你們都不知道說這個總統會講說510會講一個主權基金出來\n\n01:08.722 --> 01:35.481\n我想這個部分可能我想我沒有參與過這個但是我想應該府院也許會有討論吧也許是這樣子好那副總裁咧這個過去這個主權基金也講了蠻久的那就從這個報章媒體上面來看就是說過去比較認為說有主力都是來自於央行那我想請問一下副總裁的看法咧\n\n01:36.206 --> 02:04.813\n我剛才已經講過我們在央行長期以來從彭淺總裁到楊總裁我們對於主權基金我們一向都主張這種我們正面去思考但是唯一我們希望透過專法或設立專責的管理機關以及外匯存底不能夠直接撥用這樣幾個原則去思考也支持設立主權基金但是不要用到外匯\n\n02:06.894 --> 02:18.642\n壓衡的態度就是這樣,設立專法我想大家都沒有問題,那我再請教一下部長好了,因為這個主權基金就是要彰顯台灣的主權,它跟國發基金不一樣,國發基金它的投資大概就是台灣的產業,一些新興的產業,\n\n02:27.088 --> 02:36.264\n那你認為說這個主權基金呢既然他是要彰顯台灣的主權那所以他投資的標的未來這個成立之後投資標的是不是就以國外的產業為主\n\n02:38.029 --> 02:56.821\n我想這個部分都還要再做詳細的規劃跟討論那請教部長的意見第一個我們要先看設置的一個目的然後第二個就是說要選擇什麼樣的一個產業以及未來的機制要怎麼樣去建立我覺得這應該要整體來做考量的那我是說\n\n02:58.520 --> 03:11.711\n這個其實總統他的裡面也是講很清楚啦就是說這個是要投資這個國外產業那尤其我們有提到說這次關稅我們有提到說我們要籌組一個台灣投資美國隊委員長這兩個是不是有關聯性會在討論的時候也許可以做一個詳細規劃部長講得非常的保守\n\n03:20.941 --> 03:28.876\n那您認為呢如果是主權基金成立那投資產業大概以什麼方向為主\n\n03:31.176 --> 03:52.556\n這個部分我覺得這個我還是想就是說這個主權基金成立以後它的整個機制的一個操作模式跟未來投資的一個規劃方向都必須要有一個專責的一個投資機構來做處理而不是說我們自己在這邊個人或者是這樣來表達這樣的一個意見是好沒關係那部長先請為好了我請教副總裁\n\n03:55.344 --> 04:01.351\n這個這幾天沒提美國銀行他有提到說預測啦台幣有可能到年底的時候會升到28.8元\n\n04:03.649 --> 04:11.671\n然後呢因為他們認為說這個美元大概會長就是到年底的時間大概會走弱所以台幣有可能會轉強所以有可能會再升值他預測年底會到28.8然後高盛也預測就是說如果這個\n\n04:23.916 --> 04:34.055\n亚洲各国跟美国进行贸易协商的话将使亚洲的货币更难贬值然后他预测这个海币跟海元会升值我请教一下这个副总裁的看法\n\n04:35.905 --> 05:04.012\n我們長期以來我們觀察到就是各個投資銀行他有他自己的預測那我覺得我們只是參考而已那因為影響到匯率或者是國際美元走勢的因素太多了我覺得用這種很直覺式的去推測就28點那我不要講那一個數字出來好了我們講一個趨勢好了那您認為說這個到年底之前台幣的走向是深\n\n05:05.072 --> 05:22.860\n還是貶那個報告委員因為我們長期以來我們都認為匯率我們尊重市場那央行只有在出現匯率不穩定或者是有這種操作的時候我們才會進場去維持匯率的相對穩定那所以你認為說前兩週台幣突然升值這麼多快兩塊錢那你認為這樣正常嗎因為\n\n05:29.773 --> 05:51.846\n我想那是一個操作策略也是透過這樣子的一種方式來降低大家對生殖的預期一種這過去我們也有採取類似的操作策略過因為楊總裁有提到說這個央行在這個新興之火開始的時候沒有去撲滅然後後來呢這個造成這個新火燎原之勢了\n\n05:52.526 --> 06:20.668\n那接下來我想請問一下那央行對於說如果這個美元有可能會傾向弱勢的貨幣台幣有可能相對轉強那央行相對的做法是怎麼樣我想美元弱勢或強勢它自己國內也有不同的看法所以我們在這種美元波動的時候不管它是弱勢強勢會影響到台幣匯率的時候我們的一個前提就是維持匯率的相對穩定\n\n06:22.770 --> 06:36.514\n目前台幣的匯率有穩定嗎目前我們認為4月底5月初已經相對的穩定很多了好謝謝副總裁那我再請教一下中部長好了來部長請教一下那個房屋稅2.0新制是今年開始徵收嗎是不是\n\n06:51.225 --> 07:18.578\n從去年7月1號開始實施今年是首度開徵2.0來做標準來課徵的那我們房屋稅的這個繳稅期限是到哪時候正常來說是到5月底那今年因為是第一次的開徵嘛第一次開徵有發生一些狀況然後這個部分如果要更正稅單等等的話都可以延後就是說由稅均積增機關重新開單然後期限繳款期限往後延\n\n07:19.281 --> 07:34.547\n那你們地帶是不是設在6月2號嗎6月2號是說本來你要在3月24號以前來申報自住的話你沒有在這個時間來申報就是說你要簽了戶籍然後申報自住你沒有在時間但是因為第一年實施這樣情況所以我們認為說把它延後到6月2號之前你來\n\n07:38.548 --> 07:58.877\n辦理這樣的一個事情就可以用自住的稅率來課徵那6月2號沒有延啊那本來就是你們5月底就是要申報啦房屋稅本來就是要申報到5月底那只是因為遇到假日變成6月2號而已啊那個一個是繳納期限一個就是說你是自住的話你來就是說你簽了戶籍簽進去了然後你來告訴我們說我已經簽完戶籍了我要用自住的稅率來課徵我們本來是訂在3月24號\n\n08:03.018 --> 08:25.043\n因為是今年第一年實施那些那我是說繳納期限繳納期限的話繳納期限正常是到五月底嘛對啊因為有假日就到六月二號啦對不對對對對因為有到假日就延到六月二號我的意思是說我們這個所得稅本來是到五月三十一號也是到六月二號啦然後因為這個關稅的問題我們延長到六月三十號嘛\n\n08:27.492 --> 08:39.458\n對不對那我的意思是說那如果這樣子因為房屋稅2.0是新制啦那又這個新制的過程當中又遇到一些比如說雙北也出現這個問題有沒有這個機會也把這個房屋稅減到期限延到6月30號\n\n08:41.038 --> 09:04.188\n委員報告所得稅跟訪問稅不一樣所得稅是我們來做申報不管盈利事業或者綜合所得稅的中所個人都是自己來申報所以當時因為關稅政策的關係為了避免相關的盈利事業他在這個短短一方面他要應應這個關稅的措施而去調整他相關的訂單等等造成在這個五月份有一點措手不及所以把\n\n09:04.888 --> 09:17.054\n申報的期限延到六月底但是房屋稅這個部分是屬於抵測稅是由地方政府來開單來做課徵那如果你沒有問題的話你就去繳那目前是的確發生問題啦如果發生問題的話只要有任何反應的話重新開稅單那他的繳款期限就自然是往後延的所以就沒有說一定是那個最後定來是六月二號的問題就對了\n\n09:29.521 --> 09:51.662\n6月2號這個繳款期限沒有問題的都還是沒有問題有問題的人他會自然延後嗎他就會往後延對對對這個部分我們也趕快會發函給地方政府請他務必要這樣做那其實依照現行規定就可以但我們請他們趕快這樣做也讓納稅一五人可以安心那所以說這樣子的話大概會延到多久呢延到多久就看他重新開單的一個時間\n\n09:53.704 --> 10:05.910\n所以就不是說以新開單的日期為主就對了新開單期限會拉多久呢?會拉一半多久,大概是開單之後的一個月那我再請教一下,這個工業輸出人其實政府也蠻鼓勵的\n\n10:15.054 --> 10:31.516\n那工業出租人他有一些匯率上的優稅房屋稅、地價稅還有綜合所的稅其實都有優惠那我請教一下那現在就是說人有一些因素造成就是說這個工業出租人他這個要\n\n10:32.357 --> 10:56.156\n這個要把房子變成這個你要讓這個有租金的人來租變成公益出租人還是有兩點會有一些疑慮第一個土地增值稅的優惠沒有了第二個呢房地合一稅的免稅也沒有了那我在想說為了要鼓勵這個公益出租人的話那財政部有沒有在這個土地增值稅的優惠跟房地合一稅的優惠有沒有比較這個更進一步的一個改善的一個做法\n\n10:58.031 --> 11:13.924\n這個部分第一個我們在地價稅跟房屋稅還有中手稅的部分對公益出租人有一些租稅的優惠最主要就是在持有稅的時候你在持有期間我們希望你把房子租出去然後同時讓成租人可以去申請租金補貼讓自己成為公益出租人\n\n11:14.324 --> 11:41.905\n但是土地增值稅或房地合一稅最主要是在你這房地在買賣交易的時候你有所得的部分好譬如說以土地增值稅就有一個概念就是所謂漲價歸公嘛漲價歸公那這個部分那譬如說你房地合一就是我們把它算起來以前房屋沒有所謂的要課這交易要課所得稅所以把它計算這是交易的時候你有所得那才要課稅我想這兩個意義上基本上是不太一樣的這個會造成說有一些齁它\n\n11:43.187 --> 11:46.461\n他有租人他可能也是工業出租人\n\n11:47.239 --> 12:12.932\n但是他就怕說他未來沒有這一個土地增值稅或是說這一個房地合一稅的優惠他變成就是說他會跟他的房客講就是說雖然你是公益的出租人的房客但是為了我後來我如果要房子要買賣的時候我沒辦法享受到這些優惠然後就變成說他沒有去變成這個公益出租人去做申報\n\n12:15.375 --> 12:35.367\n就是說他或許在這個工業這個出租人這一塊的優惠比如說房屋嗎地價或是說眾所隨他可能沒有拿到但是他萬一如果說房子有買賣的話還一比較相還發現說那我如果沒有去報這個工業出租人其實他可能這一個在這個稅率上面他其實會更優惠啊會造成這種情況啊那個\n\n12:38.191 --> 12:56.896\n你的意思就是他可能就覺得說如果我現在房子出租了我將來在賣的時候我的稅就不會土增稅還有房地利稅會課得比較重所以你不要去報出租這個基本上我們認為就是說所謂的租屋黑市本來就是因為我們要查緝的你有出租你就該繳稅就要繳稅好那對於出租對於公益出租人來說他我們在他的持有期間已經給你稅負的一個優惠了這兩者我覺得那當然啦就是說他持有的\n\n13:05.538 --> 13:18.606\n他持有的這個房屋地價跟這個眾所稅有優惠了那我的意思是說如果在鼓勵這個公益出租人這個情況之下你們有考慮就是說這個土地增值稅跟房地合一稅這方面的這個稅率在給予優惠嗎\n\n13:21.023 --> 13:42.387\n這個部分我想這個部分可能要審慎的研議因為兩者稅的一個目的是不太一樣要審慎研議也就是說因為房地合一稅事實上是有價差你有價差的才會有課徵反正這個會後我再請教你們好了是謝謝謝謝主席謝謝李坤臣委員這個題很好研議一下接著我們請嚴坤臣委員\n\n13:54.688 --> 13:56.667\n謝謝主席各位電視觀眾大家好\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.016,"end":24.266,"text":"總統在520有一個重要的宣示要設立主權基金這是大概是有史以來除了院長之外總統是第一個講的要設立主權基金所以方向已經非常明確了我記得我們上禮拜專報大家還在討論說"},{"start":27.088,"end":38.775,"text":"這個要不要設怎麼設那專法怎麼弄然後這個這個裁員從哪裡來那我先請教一下部長那總統已經有這個宣示了那你們有沒有一個節奏那接下來要怎麼做"},{"start":41.721,"end":65.139,"text":"有關這個主權基金後續的一個相關做法行政院會邀請相關部會來做討論跟演繹規劃主要是國發會嗎這個部分當然包含國發會、央行以及財主單位等等那財政部要做的咧這個部分要等在行政院召開會議的時候會再一起討論那所以總統宣誓之前你們都不知道說這個總統會講說510會講一個主權基金出來"},{"start":68.722,"end":95.481,"text":"我想這個部分可能我想我沒有參與過這個但是我想應該府院也許會有討論吧也許是這樣子好那副總裁咧這個過去這個主權基金也講了蠻久的那就從這個報章媒體上面來看就是說過去比較認為說有主力都是來自於央行那我想請問一下副總裁的看法咧"},{"start":96.206,"end":124.813,"text":"我剛才已經講過我們在央行長期以來從彭淺總裁到楊總裁我們對於主權基金我們一向都主張這種我們正面去思考但是唯一我們希望透過專法或設立專責的管理機關以及外匯存底不能夠直接撥用這樣幾個原則去思考也支持設立主權基金但是不要用到外匯"},{"start":126.894,"end":138.642,"text":"壓衡的態度就是這樣,設立專法我想大家都沒有問題,那我再請教一下部長好了,因為這個主權基金就是要彰顯台灣的主權,它跟國發基金不一樣,國發基金它的投資大概就是台灣的產業,一些新興的產業,"},{"start":147.088,"end":156.264,"text":"那你認為說這個主權基金呢既然他是要彰顯台灣的主權那所以他投資的標的未來這個成立之後投資標的是不是就以國外的產業為主"},{"start":158.029,"end":176.821,"text":"我想這個部分都還要再做詳細的規劃跟討論那請教部長的意見第一個我們要先看設置的一個目的然後第二個就是說要選擇什麼樣的一個產業以及未來的機制要怎麼樣去建立我覺得這應該要整體來做考量的那我是說"},{"start":178.52,"end":191.711,"text":"這個其實總統他的裡面也是講很清楚啦就是說這個是要投資這個國外產業那尤其我們有提到說這次關稅我們有提到說我們要籌組一個台灣投資美國隊委員長這兩個是不是有關聯性會在討論的時候也許可以做一個詳細規劃部長講得非常的保守"},{"start":200.941,"end":208.876,"text":"那您認為呢 如果是主權基金成立 那投資產業大概以什麼方向為主"},{"start":211.176,"end":232.556,"text":"這個部分我覺得這個我還是想就是說這個主權基金成立以後它的整個機制的一個操作模式跟未來投資的一個規劃方向都必須要有一個專責的一個投資機構來做處理而不是說我們自己在這邊個人或者是這樣來表達這樣的一個意見是好沒關係那部長先請為好了我請教副總裁"},{"start":235.344,"end":241.351,"text":"這個這幾天沒提美國銀行他有提到說預測啦台幣有可能到年底的時候會升到28.8元"},{"start":243.649,"end":251.671,"text":"然後呢 因為他們認為說這個美元大概會長就是到年底的時間大概會走弱所以台幣有可能會轉強所以有可能會再升值他預測年底會到28.8然後高盛也預測就是說如果這個"},{"start":263.916,"end":274.055,"text":"亚洲各国跟美国进行贸易协商的话将使亚洲的货币更难贬值然后他预测这个海币跟海元会升值我请教一下这个副总裁的看法"},{"start":275.905,"end":304.012,"text":"我們長期以來我們觀察到就是各個投資銀行他有他自己的預測那我覺得我們只是參考而已那因為影響到匯率或者是國際美元走勢的因素太多了我覺得用這種很直覺式的去推測就28點那我不要講那一個數字出來好了我們講一個趨勢好了那您認為說這個到年底之前台幣的走向是深"},{"start":305.072,"end":322.86,"text":"還是貶那個報告委員因為我們長期以來我們都認為匯率我們尊重市場那央行只有在出現匯率不穩定或者是有這種操作的時候我們才會進場去維持匯率的相對穩定那所以你認為說前兩週台幣突然升值這麼多快兩塊錢那你認為這樣正常嗎因為"},{"start":329.773,"end":351.846,"text":"我想那是一個操作策略也是透過這樣子的一種方式來降低大家對生殖的預期一種這過去我們也有採取類似的操作策略過因為楊總裁有提到說這個央行在這個新興之火開始的時候沒有去撲滅然後後來呢這個造成這個新火燎原之勢了"},{"start":352.526,"end":380.668,"text":"那接下來我想請問一下那央行對於說如果這個美元有可能會傾向弱勢的貨幣台幣有可能相對轉強那央行相對的做法是怎麼樣我想美元弱勢或強勢它自己國內也有不同的看法所以我們在這種美元波動的時候不管它是弱勢強勢會影響到台幣匯率的時候我們的一個前提就是維持匯率的相對穩定"},{"start":382.77,"end":396.514,"text":"目前台幣的匯率有穩定嗎目前我們認為4月底5月初已經相對的穩定很多了好 謝謝副總裁那我再請教一下中部長好了來 部長 請教一下那個房屋稅2.0新制是今年開始徵收嗎 是不是"},{"start":411.225,"end":438.578,"text":"從去年7月1號開始實施今年是首度開徵2.0來做標準來課徵的那我們房屋稅的這個繳稅期限是到哪時候正常來說是到5月底那今年因為是第一次的開徵嘛第一次開徵有發生一些狀況然後這個部分如果要更正稅單等等的話都可以延後就是說由稅均積增機關重新開單然後期限繳款期限往後延"},{"start":439.281,"end":454.547,"text":"那你們地帶是不是設在6月2號嗎6月2號是說本來你要在3月24號以前來申報自住的話你沒有在這個時間來申報就是說你要簽了戶籍然後申報自住你沒有在時間但是因為第一年實施這樣情況所以我們認為說把它延後到6月2號之前你來"},{"start":458.548,"end":478.877,"text":"辦理這樣的一個事情就可以用自住的稅率來課徵那6月2號沒有延啊那本來就是你們5月底就是要申報啦房屋稅本來就是要申報到5月底那只是因為遇到假日變成6月2號而已啊那個一個是繳納期限一個就是說你是自住的話你來就是說你簽了戶籍簽進去了然後你來告訴我們說我已經簽完戶籍了我要用自住的稅率來課徵我們本來是訂在3月24號"},{"start":483.018,"end":505.043,"text":"因為是今年第一年實施那些那我是說繳納期限繳納期限的話繳納期限正常是到五月底嘛對啊因為有假日就到六月二號啦對不對對對對因為有到假日就延到六月二號我的意思是說我們這個所得稅本來是到五月三十一號也是到六月二號啦然後因為這個關稅的問題我們延長到六月三十號嘛"},{"start":507.492,"end":519.458,"text":"對不對那我的意思是說那如果這樣子因為房屋稅2.0是新制啦那又這個新制的過程當中又遇到一些比如說雙北也出現這個問題有沒有這個機會也把這個房屋稅減到期限延到6月30號"},{"start":521.038,"end":544.188,"text":"委員報告所得稅跟訪問稅不一樣所得稅是我們來做申報不管盈利事業或者綜合所得稅的中所個人都是自己來申報所以當時因為關稅政策的關係為了避免相關的盈利事業他在這個短短一方面他要應應這個關稅的措施而去調整他相關的訂單等等造成在這個五月份有一點措手不及所以把"},{"start":544.888,"end":557.054,"text":"申報的期限延到六月底但是房屋稅這個部分是屬於抵測稅是由地方政府來開單來做課徵那如果你沒有問題的話你就去繳那目前是的確發生問題啦如果發生問題的話只要有任何反應的話重新開稅單那他的繳款期限就自然是往後延的所以就沒有說一定是那個最後定來是六月二號的問題就對了"},{"start":569.521,"end":591.662,"text":"6月2號這個繳款期限沒有問題的都還是沒有問題有問題的人他會自然延後嗎他就會往後延 對對對這個部分我們也趕快會發函給地方政府請他務必要這樣做那其實依照現行規定就可以但我們請他們趕快這樣做也讓納稅一五人可以安心那所以說這樣子的話大概會延到多久呢延到多久就看他重新開單的一個時間"},{"start":593.704,"end":605.91,"text":"所以就不是說以新開單的日期為主就對了新開單期限會拉多久呢?會拉一半多久,大概是開單之後的一個月那我再請教一下,這個工業輸出人其實政府也蠻鼓勵的"},{"start":615.054,"end":631.516,"text":"那工業出租人他有一些匯率上的優稅房屋稅、地價稅還有綜合所的稅其實都有優惠那我請教一下那現在就是說人有一些因素造成就是說這個工業出租人他這個要"},{"start":632.357,"end":656.156,"text":"這個要把房子變成這個你要讓這個有租金的人來租變成公益出租人還是有兩點會有一些疑慮第一個土地增值稅的優惠沒有了第二個呢房地合一稅的免稅也沒有了那我在想說為了要鼓勵這個公益出租人的話那財政部有沒有在這個土地增值稅的優惠跟房地合一稅的優惠有沒有比較這個更進一步的一個改善的一個做法"},{"start":658.031,"end":673.924,"text":"這個部分第一個我們在地價稅跟房屋稅還有中手稅的部分對公益出租人有一些租稅的優惠最主要就是在持有稅的時候你在持有期間我們希望你把房子租出去然後同時讓成租人可以去申請租金補貼讓自己成為公益出租人"},{"start":674.324,"end":701.905,"text":"但是土地增值稅或房地合一稅最主要是在你這房地在買賣交易的時候你有所得的部分好譬如說以土地增值稅就有一個概念就是所謂漲價歸公嘛漲價歸公那這個部分那譬如說你房地合一就是我們把它算起來以前房屋沒有所謂的要課這交易要課所得稅所以把它計算這是交易的時候你有所得那才要課稅我想這兩個意義上基本上是不太一樣的這個會造成說有一些齁它"},{"start":703.187,"end":706.461,"text":"他有租人他可能也是工業出租人"},{"start":707.239,"end":732.932,"text":"但是他就怕說他未來沒有這一個土地增值稅或是說這一個房地合一稅的優惠他變成就是說他會跟他的房客講就是說雖然你是公益的出租人的房客但是為了我後來我如果要房子要買賣的時候我沒辦法享受到這些優惠然後就變成說他沒有去變成這個公益出租人去做申報"},{"start":735.375,"end":755.367,"text":"就是說他或許在這個工業這個出租人這一塊的優惠比如說房屋嗎地價或是說眾所隨他可能沒有拿到但是他萬一如果說房子有買賣的話還一比較相還發現說那我如果沒有去報這個工業出租人其實他可能這一個在這個稅率上面他其實會更優惠啊會造成這種情況啊那個"},{"start":758.191,"end":776.896,"text":"你的意思就是他可能就覺得說如果我現在房子出租了我將來在賣的時候我的稅就不會土增稅還有房地利稅會課得比較重所以你不要去報出租這個基本上我們認為就是說所謂的租屋黑市本來就是因為我們要查緝的你有出租你就該繳稅就要繳稅好那對於出租對於公益出租人來說他我們在他的持有期間已經給你稅負的一個優惠了這兩者我覺得那當然啦就是說他持有的"},{"start":785.538,"end":798.606,"text":"他持有的這個房屋地價跟這個眾所稅有優惠了那我的意思是說如果在鼓勵這個公益出租人這個情況之下你們有考慮就是說這個土地增值稅跟房地合一稅這方面的這個稅率在給予優惠嗎"},{"start":801.023,"end":822.387,"text":"這個部分我想這個部分可能要審慎的研議因為兩者稅的一個目的是不太一樣要審慎研議也就是說因為房地合一稅事實上是有價差你有價差的才會有課徵反正這個會後我再請教你們好了是謝謝謝謝主席謝謝李坤臣委員這個題很好研議一下接著我們請嚴坤臣委員"},{"start":834.688,"end":836.667,"text":"謝謝主席 各位電視觀眾大家好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":969,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時32分）謝謝主席，先請財政部莊部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["李委員坤城：今天央行是副總裁嘛？也請嚴副總裁。"],["主席：請副總裁。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好，副總裁好。總統在520有一個重要的宣示，就是要設立主權基金，大概是有史以來除了院長之外，總統是第一個講的，要設立主權基金，所以方向已經非常明確了。我記得我們上禮拜專報，大家還在討論要不要設、怎麼設，然後專法要怎麼弄、財源要從哪裡來，我先請教部長，總統已經有宣示了，那你們有沒有一個節奏？接下來要怎麼做？"],["莊部長翠雲：有關主權基金後續相關的做法，行政院會邀集相關部會來做討論跟研議規劃。"],["李委員坤城：主要是國發會嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分當然包含國發會、央行以及財主單位等等，還有相關部會。"],["李委員坤城：那財政部要做的咧？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分在行政院召開會議的時候，會再一起討論。"],["李委員坤城：所以總統宣示之前，你們都不知道總統在520會講一個主權基金出來？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我沒有參與過，但是府院也許會有討論吧！"],["李委員坤城：這樣子。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["李委員坤城：好，那副總裁呢？這個主權基金已經講了滿久了，從報章媒體來看，過去比較認為阻力都是來自於央行，我想請問一下副總裁的看法？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我想我剛才已經講過，央行長期以來，從彭前總裁到楊總裁，我們對於主權基金一向都主張正面去思考，但是唯一我們希望透過專法或設立專責管理機關，以及外匯存底不能夠直接撥用，這幾個原則去思考。"],["李委員坤城：就是說也支持設立主權基金。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：對，我們一向……"],["李委員坤城：但是不要用到外匯。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：對。"],["李委員坤城：央行的態度就是這樣子嘛！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：是。"],["李委員坤城：設立專法我想大家應該都沒有問題，本來就要設立專法。","我再請教一下部長好了，因為主權基金就是要彰顯臺灣的主權嘛！才叫主權基金，它跟國發基金不一樣，國發基金投資的大概就是臺灣的產業或一些新興產業，那您認為這個主權基金既然是要彰顯臺灣的主權，未來它成立之後，投資的標的是不是就以國外的產業為主？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想這個部分還要再做詳細的規劃與討論。"],["李委員坤城：不是，請教部長的意見啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，我們要先看設置的目的。第二個，要選擇什麼樣的產業以及未來機制要怎麼樣去建立，我覺得應該要整體來做考量。"],["李委員坤城：其實總統的宣示也是講得很清楚啦！這個是要投資國外產業，尤其這次的關稅我們有提到要籌組一個臺灣投資美國隊，這兩個是不是有關聯性？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個在未來討論的時候，也許可以做一個詳細規劃。"],["李委員坤城：部長講得非常保守，那您認為呢？您認為如果主權基金成立，投資的產業大概以什麼方向為主？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我還是講，主權基金成立以後，整個機制的操作模式及未來投資的規劃方向都必須要有一個專責的投資機構來處理，而不是我們自己在這邊，個人或者是怎樣來表達這樣的意見。"],["李委員坤城：好，沒關係，部長先請回好了。","我請教副總裁，這幾天媒體有報導，美國銀行預測臺幣有可能到年底的時候會升到28.8元，因為他們認為美元到年底這段期間大概會走弱，臺幣有可能會轉強，所以有可能會再升值，它預測年底會到28.8元。高盛也預測，如果亞洲各國和美國進行貿易協商的話，將使亞洲的貨幣更難貶值，它預測臺幣和韓元會升值，請教一下副總裁的看法？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，央行長期以來，我們觀察到各個投資銀行有它自己的預測，我們只是參考而已，因為影響到匯率或國際美元走勢的因素太多了，用這種很直覺式地去推測28.8元，我覺得是有點……"],["李委員坤城：好，我們不要講那個數字，我們講趨勢好了，您認為到年底之前，臺幣的走向是升還是貶？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：因為央行長期以來都認為匯率我們是尊重市場，央行只有在出現匯率不穩定或者是有這種操作的時候，我們才會進場去維持匯率的相對穩定。"],["李委員坤城：所以前兩週臺幣突然升值了這麼多，快兩塊錢，您認為這樣正常嗎？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我想那是一個操作策略，也是透過這一種方式來降低大家對升值的預期，在過去我們也有採取類似的操作策略過。"],["李委員坤城：因為楊總裁有提到，央行在星星之火開始的時候沒有去撲滅，後來造成星火燎原之勢。接下來我想請問一下，如果美元有可能會傾向弱勢的貨幣，臺幣有可能相對轉強，央行相對的做法是怎麼樣？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我想美元弱勢或強勢，它自己國內也有不同的看法，所以我們在這種美元波動的時候，不管它是弱勢強勢，會影響到臺幣匯率的時候，我們的前提就是維持匯率的相對穩定。"],["李委員坤城：那目前呢？目前臺幣的匯率有穩定嗎？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：目前我們認為較4月底5月初，已經相對的穩定很多了。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝副總裁。","我再請教一下莊部長好了。請教部長，房屋稅2.0新制是今年開始徵收，是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，從去年7月1日開始實施，今年是首度開徵，用2.0做標準來課徵。"],["李委員坤城：我們房屋稅的繳稅期限是到哪時候？"],["莊部長翠雲：正常來說是到5月底，今年因為是第一次開徵，第一次開徵有發生一些狀況，這個部分如果要更正稅單等等的話都可以延後，就是由稅捐稽徵機關重新開單，然後繳款期限往後延。"],["李委員坤城：你們deadline不是設在6月2日嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：6月2日是說，本來你要在3月24日以前來申報自住，你沒有在這個時間來申報，就是說你遷了戶籍、申報自住，你沒有在時間內完成，但是因為第一年實施這樣的情況，所以我們把它延後到6月2日之前你來辦理這樣的事情，就可以用自住的稅率來課徵。"],["李委員坤城：你們6月2日沒有延，5月底本來就是要申報，房屋稅本來就是要申報到5月底，只是因為遇到假日變成6月2日而已。"],["莊部長翠雲：一個是繳納期限，一個是說你自住的話，你戶籍遷進去了，然後你來告訴我們已經遷完戶籍，你要用自住的稅率來課徵，我們本來是訂在3月24日，但是今年因為是第一年實施……"],["李委員坤城：對，我是說繳納期限啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：繳納期限的話，繳納期限正常是到5月底。"],["李委員坤城：對，因為有假日就到6月2日，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，有遇到假日就延到6月2日。"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是說，所得稅本來是到5月31日，也是到6月2日啦！然後因為關稅的問題，我們延長到6月30日，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是說，如果是這樣子，因為房屋稅2.0是新制，實施新制的過程當中又遇到一些狀況，比如說雙北有出現一些問題，有沒有機會也把房屋稅的繳納期限延到6月30日？"],["莊部長翠雲：所得稅跟房屋稅不一樣，所得稅是我們來做申報，不管營利事業或者綜合所得稅的綜所個人都是自己來申報，當時是因為關稅措施的關係，為了避免相關的營利事業一方面要因應關稅的措施而去調整它相關的訂單等等，造成在5月份有一點措手不及，所以把申報期限延到6月底。但是房屋稅這個部分是屬於底冊稅，是由地方政府來開單做課徵，如果你沒有問題的話你就去繳，如果稅單上有問題……"],["李委員坤城：目前的確發生問題啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：如果發生問題，只要有任何反映的話，重新開稅單，那它的繳款期限自然是往後延。"],["李委員坤城：所以沒有說最後的deadline一定是6月2日就對了？"],["莊部長翠雲：6月2日這個繳款期限，沒有問題的都還是沒有問題，有問題的就重新開單，它就會往後延。"],["李委員坤城：有問題的它會自然延後嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，這個部分我們會趕快發函給地方政府，請它務必要這樣做，其實依照現行規定就可以，但我們請他們趕快這樣做，也讓納稅義務人可以安心。"],["李委員坤城：這樣子的話，大概會延到多久？"],["莊部長翠雲：延到多久就看它重新開單的時間。"],["李委員坤城：好，所以不是一律以那個日期，是以新開單的日期為主就對了。"],["莊部長翠雲：新開單的就往後延。"],["李委員坤城：新開單的期限會拉多久？"],["莊部長翠雲：就是一個月，開單以後的一個月。"],["李委員坤城：開單之後的一個月。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，一個月內繳納。"],["李委員坤城：好，我再請教一下，關於公益出租人，其實政府也滿鼓勵的啦！公益出租人有一些稅率上的優惠，包括房屋稅、地價稅及綜合所得稅，其實都有優惠，但現在仍有一些因素造成他要把房子給有租金的人來租，變成公益出租人，還是會有一些疑慮啦！第一個，土地增值稅的優惠沒有了；第二個，房地合一稅的免稅額也沒有了。那我在想，為了要鼓勵公益出租人，財政部在土地增值稅及房地合一稅的優惠有沒有更進一步的改善作法？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想這個部分第一個，我們在地價稅、房屋稅及綜所稅的部分，對公益出租人有一些租稅的優惠。"],["李委員坤城：有！"],["莊部長翠雲：最主要就是在持有稅的時候，你在持有期間我們希望你把房子租出去，同時讓承租人可以去申請租金補貼，讓自己成為公益出租人。但是土地增值稅或房地合一稅最主要是你的房地在買賣交易的時候，你有所得的部分，比如說土地增值稅有一個概念，就是所謂漲價歸公嘛！比如說你房地合一就是我們把它算起來，以前房屋沒有所謂的交易要課所得稅，所以把它計算，這是交易的時候你有所得才要課稅，這兩個在意義上是不太一樣的。"],["李委員坤城：這個會造成有一些人有出租，他可能也是公益出租人，但是他怕未來沒有土地增值稅或房地合一稅的優惠，所以他會跟他的房客講，雖然你是公益出租人的房客，但是我為了後來如果房子要買賣的時候，我沒有辦法享受到這些優惠，然後他就沒有變成公益出租人去做申報。"],["莊部長翠雲：就會隱匿他一個……"],["李委員坤城：就是說他或許在公益出租人這一塊的優惠，比如說房屋、地價或是綜所稅他可能沒有拿到，但是他萬一房子有買賣的話，他一比較才發現如果沒有去申報公益出租人，他可能在稅率上面會更優惠，會造成這種情況啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，你的意思就是他可能覺得如果現在房子出租了，將來在賣的時候，他的土增稅和房地合一稅會課得比較重，所以他不要去報出租，基本上我們認為所謂的租屋黑市本來就是我們要查緝的，你有出租，你該繳稅就要繳稅。對於公益出租人來說，我們在他的持有期間已經給予稅負的優惠了，這兩者我覺得應該是不太一樣。"],["李委員坤城：對，當然啦！他持有的房屋、地價及綜所稅有優惠了，我的意思是說，如果在鼓勵公益出租人的情況之下，你們有考慮在土地增值稅及房地合一稅這方面的稅率再給予優惠嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分可能要審慎地研議，因為稅的目的不太一樣，要審慎研議，也就是說，房地合一稅事實上是有價差嘛！你有價差的才會有課徵嘛！"],["李委員坤城：好，會後我再請教你們好了。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝。謝謝主席。"],["主席（陳委員玉珍代）：謝謝李坤城委員，這個提議很好，研議一下。","接著我們請顏寬恒委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-13","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","羅明才","李坤城","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","陳玉珍","林思銘","王世堅","林楚茵","廖先翔","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷"],"page_start":299,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部、金融監督管理委員會、中央銀行就「房屋稅2.0課徵亂象與金融機構對不動產\n融資緊縮及中央銀行信用管制措施對房地產交易之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中\n華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案 39 案；\n三、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結專案報告\n案9案","agenda_id":"1145101_00008"}}}