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0.039}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 923.0, \"end\": 923.48, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"懲\"}, {\"word\": \"戒\", \"start\": 923.48, \"end\": 924.421, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 924.421, \"end\": 924.501, \"score\": 0.719}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 924.501, \"end\": 924.521, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 924.521, \"end\": 924.761, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 924.761, \"end\": 925.042, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 925.042, \"end\": 925.922, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 925.922, \"end\": 926.163, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 926.163, \"end\": 926.743, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 926.743, \"end\": 926.843, \"score\": 0.631}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 926.843, \"end\": 926.963, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 926.963, \"end\": 927.023, \"score\": 0.676}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 927.023, \"end\": 927.083, \"score\": 0.18}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 927.083, \"end\": 927.223, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 927.223, \"end\": 927.344, \"score\": 0.695}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 927.344, \"end\": 927.524, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 927.524, \"end\": 927.544, \"score\": 0.839}]}, {\"start\": 928.979, \"end\": 957.894, \"text\": \"所以你可以在這個既有的醫事查詢系統去優化可是你看你們的醫事查詢系統你們的醫事查詢系統大概只能證明說他是一個有合格執照的醫師吧網站上有姓名人員類別職業的縣市如果同一個縣市兩個同名同姓職登科別類別都一樣我要怎麼辨認哪一個是狼醫\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 928.979, \"end\": 929.219, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 929.219, \"end\": 930.02, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 930.02, \"end\": 930.14, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 930.14, \"end\": 930.22, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 930.22, \"end\": 930.28, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 930.28, \"end\": 930.76, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"既\", \"start\": 930.76, \"end\": 931.0, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 931.0, \"end\": 931.22, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 931.22, \"end\": 932.321, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 932.321, \"end\": 932.621, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 932.621, \"end\": 933.321, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 933.321, \"end\": 934.222, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 934.222, \"end\": 934.762, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"優\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 934.762, \"end\": 936.543, \"score\": 0.518}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 936.543, \"end\": 936.643, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 936.643, \"end\": 936.763, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 936.763, \"end\": 936.863, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 936.863, \"end\": 936.983, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 950.07, \"end\": 950.21, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 950.21, \"end\": 950.63, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 950.63, \"end\": 951.55, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 951.55, \"end\": 951.67, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 951.67, \"end\": 951.83, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 951.83, \"end\": 952.011, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"姓\", \"start\": 952.011, \"end\": 953.271, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"登\", \"start\": 953.271, \"end\": 953.571, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 953.571, \"end\": 953.912, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 953.912, \"end\": 954.552, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 954.552, \"end\": 954.752, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 954.752, \"end\": 954.912, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 954.912, \"end\": 955.412, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 955.412, \"end\": 955.572, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 955.572, \"end\": 955.732, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 955.732, \"end\": 956.533, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"辨\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 956.533, \"end\": 956.753, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 956.753, \"end\": 957.053, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 957.053, \"end\": 957.874, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"狼\", \"start\": 957.874, \"end\": 957.894, \"score\": 0.064}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}]}, {\"start\": 959.554, \"end\": 963.239, \"text\": \"哪一個是我要查詢的那個我在乎的醫師好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 959.554, \"end\": 959.714, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 959.714, \"end\": 959.915, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", 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這個網站裡面如果疑似人員犯案以後甚至遭到判刑以後 沒有被你們吊銷執照改名了 改名了 我怎麼查詢他啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 964.653, \"end\": 964.773, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 964.773, \"end\": 964.853, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 964.853, \"end\": 964.993, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"慢\", \"start\": 964.993, \"end\": 965.133, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"慢\", \"start\": 965.133, \"end\": 965.373, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 965.373, \"end\": 966.254, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 966.254, \"end\": 966.454, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 966.454, \"end\": 966.594, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 966.594, \"end\": 966.934, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 966.934, \"end\": 967.074, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 967.074, \"end\": 967.414, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": 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\"法\", \"start\": 1499.765, \"end\": 1499.905, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 1499.905, \"end\": 1501.707, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1501.707, \"end\": 1501.947, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1501.947, \"end\": 1502.228, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 1502.228, \"end\": 1502.368, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1502.368, \"end\": 1502.528, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 1502.528, \"end\": 1502.708, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 1502.708, \"end\": 1503.209, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 1503.209, \"end\": 1504.13, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1504.13, \"end\": 1504.31, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 1504.31, \"end\": 1505.351, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1505.351, \"end\": 1505.371, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,654 --> 00:00:09,491\n別說太久了好謝謝主席是不是請我們林次長\n\n2\n00:00:17,826 --> 00:00:39,893\n市長其實台大住院醫師的性侵這個個案事實上在一發生的時候不管是醫院地方北市衛生局或者是我們中央新聞剛出來的時候都是用醫事法第25條第二款要判刑確定才會送懲戒\n\n3\n00:00:42,301 --> 00:01:11,120\n然後這種法律概念大家都覺得荒謬無比然後醫師利用這個醫療職務機會而犯罪事實上同時已經也違背了這個醫療倫理那如果有高度社會矚目立法院排案要報告了次長就改口了就是說不用第二款我們有我沒有叫你回答你們當時出來的新聞稿新聞大家都看得出來\n\n4\n00:01:14,161 --> 00:01:41,066\n當時所有的第一時間地方衛生局、中央、衛福部、醫院、僱主通通都是用要判刑確定或移送懲戒都一開始都是這樣子所以你今天當然是改口了因為今天要到立法院來報告怎麼可以不改口那我不是說這樣子不行而是執行業務違背醫學倫理我現在要問你是說第一個\n\n5\n00:01:43,069 --> 00:02:02,248\n有沒有統計這五年醫師因為妨害性自主案件而依據醫師法第25條第二款利用業務機會的犯罪行為經判刑確定而移送懲戒的案例數有多少第一個\n\n6\n00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:18,765\n第二個第四款因為執行業務違背醫學倫理而移赴懲戒的案例數又有多少這五年內你可以告訴我這個數字嗎報告委員我這邊就是說這五年內的話\n\n7\n00:02:20,706 --> 00:02:39,746\n看一下現在是好5年內的話我們在110年他是有一位醫師是依照醫師法20就是我們講的25條第二懲戒法25條第二款廢止他的醫師證書那另外一個案子我再問你數數量就好了我現在手頭上你接著你不用移\n\n8\n00:02:40,607 --> 00:03:02,538\n你不用跟我一一的報告問你這五年內因為妨礙性自主喔然後判刑確定被移送懲戒或者是用第四款更寬鬆的為被醫學輪迷而交付懲戒的案件數有多少你就告訴我就好了我手上這個資料是姓平的案子的話這邊是1234\n\n9\n00:03:06,519 --> 00:03:14,662\n我是第二款第四款分開的你為什麼要這樣子回答第二款是判刑確定的一送懲戒有幾個第四款因為違背醫學倫理而交付懲戒的個案有幾個\n\n10\n00:03:25,868 --> 00:03:52,913\n我們這邊這幾案多數都是這一個包含性投訴性騷擾案然後懲戒那其中有幾個個案有三個個案是判決之後以第二款來移送懲戒你講的是多久的時間以內最近對三年內三年內對有判刑確定交付懲戒的有三個判刑確定的案子在我現在手上的資料裡面110年有一位判刑確定的案子然後在\n\n11\n00:03:55,574 --> 00:04:13,419\n110年的那個就是現在正在7月份台北市政府要召開懲戒會另外一個是111年的那個也是在因為這個案子已經提出為什麼這種問題要回答的這樣2266呢那因為被醫學倫理而交付的有幾件\n\n12\n00:04:14,887 --> 00:04:29,851\n違背醫學倫理的案子我們現在手上沒有這樣的資料對嘛所以嘛你們全部都是等到判刑確定才會交付懲戒啦你們的標準就是要判刑確定啦今天醫事司司長為什麼沒有來我們要講這些問題是說狼醫啊就是由群體依依相互相怨包庇出來的\n\n13\n00:04:44,011 --> 00:04:51,578\n你們都用最低的標準一定要踩到刑責確定了才願意交付懲戒你們就是這樣子啊我要跟你講這個案子我要講一個我們地方三窮的故事\n\n14\n00:05:00,871 --> 00:05:26,338\n你也掌握說因為妨礙性自主案件的醫生在司法判決以前都可以繼續執業啊所以有一個叫孔凡錦精神科醫師這個個案你有聽說過嗎孔凡錦後來已經被我們廢止醫師證書你不要這樣講在他在他被你們調照以前啊\n\n15\n00:05:27,902 --> 00:05:48,284\n發生了第一件是2021年的4月16號在診間強制性交然後呢三個月不到他再次犯下利用權勢性交而且被害者是16歲以上未滿18歲的少女\n\n16\n00:05:50,101 --> 00:06:14,679\n兩岸最後當然是判決有罪但是呢他是幾年才判決有罪你知道嗎2024年在2021到2024年之間他沒有裁定前恐反警仍然繼續執業而且還招人檢舉他的恐反警的這個診所名稱改名為同安診所\n\n17\n00:06:15,285 --> 00:06:36,898\n而且用他哥哥的名字孔繁中去掛名但是實際看整的還是孔繁井所以呢這代表什麼代表說在司法判決以前沒有定業以前你奈何不了他可是事實上不是喔法律法律有工具耶可以讓你們在判決以前\n\n18\n00:06:41,221 --> 00:07:01,520\n就可以去給他移送懲戒老闆委員齁孔凡請醫師這個案子事實上在112年8月2號精神科醫學會就通知新北市衛生局來啟動這個醫師懲戒所以後來是在112年8月18日我覺得你不要把責任說是地方政府的問題啦中央跟地方都一樣因為上情下效你們就是這個原則\n\n19\n00:07:03,001 --> 00:07:25,282\n你從中央你今天才可以跟大家跟各地方衛生局宣示不用刑事判決就可以移送懲戒這個公文你發的出去嗎你可以發出去嗎我們可以再一次提醒大家依照醫師法第五條好那我就等著看你這張公文因為社會沒有辦法接受司法判決才可以移送懲戒\n\n20\n00:07:26,303 --> 00:07:43,613\n更不要講法律明明有規定而主管機關從中央到地方都刻意要選擇判刑確定才要移送成政界那我現在要跟你講喔政大法學院劉鴻恩副教授他有講過委員他曲解我的說法\n\n21\n00:07:44,273 --> 00:08:07,094\n國外我都還沒講他講什麼你不要這麼緊張認為劉鴻恩曲解你劉鴻恩有沒有曲解你我不知道但我現在講劉鴻恩現在我想是他的制度面他怎麼說國外醫生利用診療機會性侵病患只要是被檢舉甚至是還沒有被判刑但依照主管機關或公會調查的結果\n\n22\n00:08:07,754 --> 00:08:20,121\n就已經先被停業處分調扣執照吊銷執照的案例不生沒舉而且重點就在這裡醫師的資料只要你涉案了都公開的\n\n23\n00:08:21,124 --> 00:08:39,525\n美國紐澤西州一名婦產科醫生因為診療時不當觸摸病患還沒有判刑就先調過執照同樣的在紐澤西州2025年2月兩個醫師因為在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為沒有判刑就被吊銷執照\n\n24\n00:08:40,726 --> 00:08:57,950\n加拿大安大略省的一個醫師在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為所以在沒有判刑的狀況就被調供執照美國的阿拉巴馬州對於病人診療時有性方面的不當行為沒有判刑就被調校執照劉鴻恩他這裡沒有講他攻擊你我現在講他講\n\n25\n00:09:04,051 --> 00:09:20,204\n他說證據調查有很多種刑事責任的刑法責任當然需要刑事司法的調查但是不是只有刑事責任一種耶這個行為涉及到行政責任倫理責任懲戒責任\n\n26\n00:09:23,311 --> 00:09:38,317\n不一定要透過司法調查捏我們的法律裡面像民事責任民事責任需不需要司法調查完成才能夠進行民事責任的審理就你所知道的需要嗎\n\n27\n00:09:38,957 --> 00:09:57,921\n所以其實也跟我們報告就是說像相關的這幾個案子其實包含我們之前我們在大院也通過的性平三法以醫師來說他所在職業過程中所發生的這些不當的行為不論是在性別工作平等法性別平等教育法或者是性騷擾防治法都移送懲戒了嗎都移送懲戒了嗎對但是你們都給他移送懲戒了嗎沒有沒有\n\n28\n00:10:04,042 --> 00:10:08,684\n你們剛才講的數據你自己講的一清二楚都是刑事判決才移送懲戒這五年裡面你講不出來一涉案沒有經過刑事判決行政責任倫理責任還有我們剛剛講的懲戒責任都沒有被究責到都沒有移送到懲戒會去懲戒\n\n29\n00:10:27,774 --> 00:10:48,661\n所以我就跟你講台灣光是司法制度台灣的司法制度的民事訴訟都不需要等到刑事判決才可以才需要負起民事責任沒有這個東西是一樣的道理如果你們是用一個比較高的標準他是等於利用職務利用執行業務去對人家性侵性騷耶這不是道德倫理了這是法律上都踩到界限了是\n\n30\n00:10:55,270 --> 00:11:10,698\n對不對行政責任倫理責任懲戒責任刑法責任各自有不同的要件和認定標準所以呢各自的調查程序和懲戒的標準程序都不會一樣啊\n\n31\n00:11:12,225 --> 00:11:33,795\n所以你們現在看到的實務面從中央到地方就是要求判決後才有移送懲戒你們的不成文規定就是這樣子啊你剛才五年內的統計你沒有辦法說出一件涉案就交一副懲戒會沒有你剛才的統計資料就是沒有你在這裡嘴巴說你沒有這麼認為你們實務面都是這樣子做\n\n32\n00:11:40,838 --> 00:11:47,522\n而你還在這裡嘴巴硬不願意承認當你承認你們有這個問題當你們承認有這個問題你承認然後你說你們未來會改進那麼我們是可以接受的你現在是我們沒有我們通通都沒有你現在就是說我通通都沒有\n\n33\n00:12:00,837 --> 00:12:15,552\n內部處理太過保守而且其實也在藉這個機會因為接下來在7月份台北市衛生局要針對三位醫師的狀況來開懲戒我們也藉這個機會希望大家在懲戒的過程能夠有一個比較有效的作用我再問你一個問題狼醫職業婦產科有嗎\n\n34\n00:12:16,693 --> 00:12:36,797\n郎醫只有婦產科有嗎?精神科、兒科的郎醫就算派行以後還仍然繼續職業你們還沒收了民眾的執行權今天要討論的是到婦產科醫師這個看診大家都提心吊膽但是你知道有個兒科醫師2022年記性男醫師\n\n35\n00:12:41,048 --> 00:13:09,923\n是一個女童的主治醫師兒科的一時誤想利用而女童求診時為女童與陪同母親實施心臟超音波檢查疑似多次手持超音波探頭以手抓住碰觸乳房乳頭的方式為猥褻行為涉及猥褻行為法院審理也判刑了七個月緩刑兩年但判刑七個月緩刑兩年但\n\n36\n00:13:10,902 --> 00:13:38,208\n沒有吊銷醫生執照沒有這個醫師懲戒他們後來做成的決議是警告我們也認為事實上希望大家能夠針對這樣尤其是未成年個案事實上醫界應該要有更強的自律才對我們要的是知情權我以後要去看醫生我都要先到衛福部的官網上去看這個醫生有沒有交付懲戒的紀錄這個醫生有沒有這個涉及這個刑事案件\n\n37\n00:13:39,468 --> 00:14:03,757\n而且更何況兒少法規定49條是97條猥褻兒童得公佈加害人性命我們更嚴謹的狼屍兒虐幼保員有定期公開的機制甚至涉及到性別不當對待的事件會處以終身或幾年內不可任用也沒有辦法進到教保機關繼續服務可是你們對狼醫狼醫對兒童猥褻\n\n38\n00:14:08,118 --> 00:14:15,680\n你們是輕輕放下而且還能夠繼續持續的看診服務而且查不到查詢不到我們性侵案零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨委員提的但也是衛黃委員會通過的你們承諾人家要建置一個平台你們沒有完成就算了其實還繼續在包庇這種狼醫你們就是狼醫包庇的當兇\n\n39\n00:14:37,694 --> 00:14:48,602\n就不要講說要法律授權有法律授權啊而設法有沒有法律授權有沒有請問你們公佈在哪裡而設法規定要加害者的名字都要公佈你們有公佈嗎沒有因為他是醫生所以不用公佈如果他是教保員或是狼屍就要公佈了但醫生輕輕放下\n\n40\n00:15:03,905 --> 00:15:27,544\n不是嗎你們的醫事查詢系統也可以優化你們醫事查詢系統因為我們要去看婦產科醫師要內診有時候要麻醉會昏迷我不知道醫生會對我做什麼我也很害怕我可不可以上網去查詢一下這個醫生有沒有前科有沒有移動懲戒有沒有涉及連兒少的也都可以看得到啊\n\n41\n00:15:28,979 --> 00:15:57,894\n所以你可以在這個既有的醫事查詢系統去優化可是你看你們的醫事查詢系統你們的醫事查詢系統大概只能證明說他是一個有合格執照的醫師吧網站上有姓名人員類別職業的縣市如果同一個縣市兩個同名同姓職登科別類別都一樣我要怎麼辨認哪一個是狼醫\n\n42\n00:15:59,554 --> 00:16:03,239\n哪一個是我要查詢的那個我在乎的醫師好\n\n43\n00:16:04,653 --> 00:16:30,884\n等一下慢慢來沒關係那我又就用這個查詢網站為基礎如果我再問你第二個問題同名同姓同科別都一樣我怎麼確認哪個是哪個第一個第二個這個網站裡面如果疑似人員犯案以後甚至遭到判刑以後沒有被你們吊銷執照改名了改名了我怎麼查詢他啊\n\n44\n00:16:32,165 --> 00:16:46,935\n改了名就海闊天空了人生重來了他改名了就不會對病患繼續上下起手嗎我不知道我們的知情權你們給我們的知情權是要是怎麼樣是這種不好的查詢系統而且重點也不在這裡喔\n\n45\n00:16:56,431 --> 00:17:12,666\n重點還有一個喔改名以外還有一個喔你們自己在上面的說明一是查詢系統的類別上就是一個笑話民眾在網頁上可以得到完整的資訊嗎事實上是不是\n\n46\n00:17:14,042 --> 00:17:39,654\n你們網頁最底下的說明民眾查詢到的都是醫事人員同意放置的項目這網站不是完整的資訊你看到的資訊都是因為這些醫事人員同意給你看你才看得到醫事人員不想給你看你就看不到所以你們有提醒大家如果你要去查查看這是不是狼醫有沒有記錄\n\n47\n00:17:41,135 --> 00:18:09,796\n如果你在網頁上查詢不到不代表這個人不是醫事人員所以這是不是很荒謬?次長有沒有很荒謬?護符部本醫事人員查詢系統不管是否查詢得到都在有或沒有之間所以連他有沒有執照無照醫師滿街跑也查詢不到啊無照醫師不會在這上面因為這上面必須要有執照然後有直登你怎麼那麼好笑有照的醫師不在這上面才好笑\n\n48\n00:18:12,659 --> 00:18:34,991\n吳趙醫師當然不在這上面但你的好笑荒謬是有趙醫師也可以不在上面你有趙醫師不在上面所以你查詢的這個人到底是有趙吳趙不知道那我請問你你自己的名字為什麼不在上面因為我現在挺夜陳時中為什麼要在上面因為他現在可以羅益君為什麼要在上面\n\n49\n00:18:35,951 --> 00:19:01,223\n我現在在溫福部所以我停業蘇經選為什麼在上面陳金輝為什麼在上面因為你不想被人家查詢報告委員我不是是因為我現在是停業我沒有職業登記所以我現在不能在上面那陳時中有嗎這我不清楚他有職業登記喔那有沒有違規違法羅怡君也有欸蘇經選有陳金輝也有你們都還在看著有職業登記委員的話是可以的\n\n50\n00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:30,487\n所以我現在要跟你講說啊因為各種因素沒職業的所以我講說各種因素啊你今天司法卡案在上面你也是查不到所以你可以利用這種不想公開來掩飾你無法職業的問題我要去查詢某某某他是不是涉案然後你上面跟人家說明說查不到不代表他沒有醫師執照\n\n51\n00:19:32,574 --> 00:19:53,765\n因為他可以公開也可以不公開你這個制度沒問題嗎改了名以後的狼醫怎麼辦這制度沒問題嗎你給我們就只有這樣子就只有這個簡單的資料這樣子不用精進嗎如果對兒受犯以性侵害需要公開你上面也查詢不到\n\n52\n00:19:54,998 --> 00:20:17,394\n這沒有問題嗎?你自己說這樣都沒有問題嗎?不用改進嗎?不用進進嗎?一定要改進這一次報告委員我還是一再強調醫事人員尤其是醫師在持續的繼續教育過程中都有相關的性別平等或者是相關性騷擾防治等等的學分那再來醫事機構本身基於性別工作平等法跟性騷擾防治法也有針對我現在不再講醫事機構跟醫療人員我現在講的是衛福部的這個網頁這個網站這個平台\n\n53\n00:20:24,199 --> 00:20:41,501\n是衛福部的責任啊所以跟我們報告就是說因為之前一月份的時候部長也有承諾我們要有一些公開的這個網頁資訊所以這個部分部長日夜晚回來之後我會跟他盡速把這個部分做起來你現在知道有公開了一月到現在了已經多久了\n\n54\n00:20:42,851 --> 00:21:02,147\n醫改團體說你們這個網頁查詢門檻很高民眾難自保只可以查到醫事人員的職業縣市無法得知職業資格是否還有效職業資格有效才會找到面因為他可以不登啊他不登的話民眾上去看找不到民眾要懷疑他那就是意思他們沒有你上面告訴人家是\n\n55\n00:21:04,309 --> 00:21:17,073\n也就是說他你畫紅線的再看一遍職業中的醫事人員同意放置的才給予公開如果沒有查到不代表此人不為醫事人員你這句話不就笑話你還能夠講得出來查詢不到的理論上查詢不到應該全部都是無照的可是你你的制度讓他們可以閃躲躲在有照的但是不想公開的人的後面\n\n56\n00:21:31,448 --> 00:21:52,802\n就是承認你們不足承認有錯誤承認你們做得不好就是這樣子而已所以呢沒有辦法得知資格懲處和判決紀錄懲戒紀錄四散各處查詢不易搜尋不到或是匿名啊改名的咧改名的咧民眾就醫治保連改名就查不到那改名的怎麼處理\n\n57\n00:21:54,775 --> 00:22:09,615\n所以其實他還是要跟著他的職登跟職業職照的部分來...就改名啦改名啦他改了名字可是他的職登他還在啊所以到時候如果...我怎麼會知道那個職登號碼跟前一個是幾號一樣的我們在上面的網站...改名了\n\n58\n00:22:11,624 --> 00:22:32,247\n需要依法公開的資訊不需要修法的剛剛講的依須懲戒辦法第22條法院組織法第83條針對判決和懲戒確定的名單就屬於政府應公開的資料我剛剛講兒少裡面的也必要公開都不會違反任何法律都有法律授權\n\n59\n00:22:33,268 --> 00:22:57,266\n那可不可以放進去提到委員指導這些政府要求公開的資訊我們把它整在一起讓衛福部整合在這個平台可以嗎我們可以整在這個平台或讓首頁能夠看得到事權統一如果這塊這麼簡單這麼容易你們應作為而不作為就是行政怠惰而且距離部長1月要承諾的真的是很久搞很久了\n\n60\n00:22:58,067 --> 00:23:24,556\n英美各個國家都有建制公開平台除了醫師的資格背景職業的狀態還可以就近可進行的查詢有無紀律處分紀錄強化民眾自主的把關透過平台的建制也能夠強化醫界的自律更重要的是減低民眾對特定科別尤其是涉及隱私的科別不信任感和擔憂這個是\n\n61\n00:23:27,641 --> 00:23:38,366\n這個是很多好處的啊不是公開大多數醫師都不會違規不會違法大多數的醫師也樂於看到淘汰這些劣幣但是護短的體制是惡行的溫床啊護短的體制是惡行的溫床\n\n62\n00:23:48,511 --> 00:24:05,785\n所以性暴力零容忍政府跟醫界都不應該視而不見輕放拖延建制或優化這個平台的前提我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡\n\n63\n00:24:07,967 --> 00:24:26,393\n所以要這細節就是你要納入多細微你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權民眾就要一個知情權才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境啊好謝謝委員指導\n\n64\n00:24:27,566 --> 00:24:44,693\n會不會多久可以把這個平台優化好剛剛有委員要求我們在一個月內去把相關公開資訊的部分做規劃他剛剛沒有討論得很清楚我現在講得很清楚懲戒的移送懲戒的相關的法院判決的還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定你們過去五年光是違反議事倫理的沒有一件送懲戒\n\n65\n00:24:53,778 --> 00:25:05,371\n這個標準你要公文下去告訴俗家從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員不是只有判刑確定好啦謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2654\t9491\t別說太久了好 謝謝主席是不是請我們林次長\n17826\t39893\t市長其實台大住院醫師的性侵這個個案事實上在一發生的時候不管是醫院地方北市衛生局或者是我們中央新聞剛出來的時候都是用醫事法第25條第二款要判刑確定才會送懲戒\n42301\t71120\t然後這種法律概念大家都覺得荒謬無比然後醫師利用這個醫療職務機會而犯罪事實上同時已經也違背了這個醫療倫理那如果有高度社會矚目立法院排案要報告了次長就改口了就是說不用第二款我們有我沒有叫你回答你們當時出來的新聞稿新聞大家都看得出來\n74161\t101066\t當時所有的第一時間地方衛生局、中央、衛福部、醫院、僱主通通都是用要判刑確定或移送懲戒都一開始都是這樣子所以你今天當然是改口了因為今天要到立法院來報告怎麼可以不改口那我不是說這樣子不行而是執行業務違背醫學倫理我現在要問你是說第一個\n103069\t122248\t有沒有統計這五年醫師因為妨害性自主案件而依據醫師法第25條第二款利用業務機會的犯罪行為經判刑確定而移送懲戒的案例數有多少第一個\n123240\t138765\t第二個第四款因為執行業務違背醫學倫理而移赴懲戒的案例數又有多少這五年內你可以告訴我這個數字嗎報告委員我這邊就是說這五年內的話\n140706\t159746\t看一下現在是好5年內的話我們在110年他是有一位醫師是依照醫師法20就是我們講的25條第二懲戒法25條第二款廢止他的醫師證書那另外一個案子我再問你數數量就好了我現在手頭上你接著你不用移\n160607\t182538\t你不用跟我一一的報告問你這五年內因為妨礙性自主喔然後判刑確定被移送懲戒或者是用第四款更寬鬆的為被醫學輪迷而交付懲戒的案件數有多少你就告訴我就好了我手上這個資料是姓平的案子的話這邊是1234\n186519\t194662\t我是第二款第四款分開的你為什麼要這樣子回答第二款是判刑確定的一送懲戒有幾個第四款因為違背醫學倫理而交付懲戒的個案有幾個\n205868\t232913\t我們這邊這幾案多數都是這一個包含性投訴性騷擾案然後懲戒那其中有幾個個案有三個個案是判決之後以第二款來移送懲戒你講的是多久的時間以內最近對三年內三年內對有判刑確定交付懲戒的有三個判刑確定的案子在我現在手上的資料裡面110年有一位判刑確定的案子然後在\n235574\t253419\t110年的那個就是現在正在7月份台北市政府要召開懲戒會另外一個是111年的那個也是在因為這個案子已經提出為什麼這種問題要回答的這樣2266呢那因為被醫學倫理而交付的有幾件\n254887\t269851\t違背醫學倫理的案子我們現在手上沒有這樣的資料對嘛 所以嘛你們全部都是等到判刑確定才會交付懲戒啦你們的標準就是要判刑確定啦今天醫事司司長為什麼沒有來我們要講這些問題是說狼醫啊就是由群體依依相互相怨包庇出來的\n284011\t291578\t你們都用最低的標準一定要踩到刑責確定了才願意交付懲戒你們就是這樣子啊我要跟你講這個案子我要講一個我們地方三窮的故事\n300871\t326338\t你也掌握說因為妨礙性自主案件的醫生在司法判決以前都可以繼續執業啊所以有一個叫孔凡錦精神科醫師這個個案你有聽說過嗎孔凡錦後來已經被我們廢止醫師證書你不要這樣講在他在他被你們調照以前啊\n327902\t348284\t發生了第一件是2021年的4月16號在診間強制性交然後呢三個月不到他再次犯下利用權勢性交而且被害者是16歲以上未滿18歲的少女\n350101\t374679\t兩岸最後當然是判決有罪但是呢 他是幾年才判決有罪 你知道嗎2024年在2021到2024年之間他沒有裁定前恐反警仍然繼續執業而且還招人檢舉他的恐反警的這個診所名稱改名為同安診所\n375285\t396898\t而且用他哥哥的名字孔繁中去掛名但是實際看整的還是孔繁井所以呢這代表什麼代表說在司法判決以前沒有定業以前你奈何不了他可是事實上不是喔法律法律有工具耶可以讓你們在判決以前\n401221\t421520\t就可以去給他移送懲戒老闆委員齁孔凡請醫師這個案子事實上在112年8月2號精神科醫學會就通知新北市衛生局來啟動這個醫師懲戒所以後來是在112年8月18日我覺得你不要把責任說是地方政府的問題啦中央跟地方都一樣因為上情下效你們就是這個原則\n423001\t445282\t你從中央你今天才可以跟大家跟各地方衛生局宣示不用刑事判決就可以移送懲戒這個公文你發的出去嗎你可以發出去嗎我們可以再一次提醒大家依照醫師法第五條好那我就等著看你這張公文因為社會沒有辦法接受司法判決才可以移送懲戒\n446303\t463613\t更不要講法律明明有規定而主管機關從中央到地方都刻意要選擇判刑確定才要移送成政界那我現在要跟你講喔政大法學院劉鴻恩副教授他有講過委員他曲解我的說法\n464273\t487094\t國外 我都還沒講他講什麼 你不要這麼緊張 認為劉鴻恩曲解你劉鴻恩有沒有曲解你我不知道 但我現在講劉鴻恩現在我想是他的制度面他怎麼說國外醫生利用診療機會性侵病患 只要是被檢舉甚至是還沒有被判刑但依照主管機關或公會調查的結果\n487754\t500121\t就已經先被停業處分 調扣執照 吊銷執照的案例不生沒舉而且 重點就在這裡醫師的資料 只要你涉案了 都公開的\n501124\t519525\t美國紐澤西州一名婦產科醫生因為診療時不當觸摸病患還沒有判刑就先調過執照同樣的在紐澤西州2025年2月兩個醫師因為在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為沒有判刑就被吊銷執照\n520726\t537950\t加拿大安大略省的一個醫師在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為所以在沒有判刑的狀況就被調供執照美國的阿拉巴馬州對於病人診療時有性方面的不當行為沒有判刑就被調校執照劉鴻恩他這裡沒有講他攻擊你我現在講他講\n544051\t560204\t他說 證據調查有很多種 刑事責任的刑法責任 當然需要刑事司法的調查但是不是只有刑事責任一種耶 這個行為涉及到行政責任 倫理責任 懲戒責任\n563311\t578317\t不一定要透過司法調查捏我們的法律裡面像民事責任民事責任需不需要司法調查完成才能夠進行民事責任的審理就你所知道的需要嗎\n578957\t597921\t所以其實也跟我們報告就是說像相關的這幾個案子其實包含我們之前我們在大院也通過的性平三法以醫師來說他所在職業過程中所發生的這些不當的行為不論是在性別工作平等法性別平等教育法或者是性騷擾防治法都移送懲戒了嗎 都移送懲戒了嗎對 但是你們都給他移送懲戒了嗎沒有 沒有\n604042\t608684\t你們剛才講的數據你自己講的一清二楚都是刑事判決才移送懲戒這五年裡面你講不出來一涉案沒有經過刑事判決行政責任倫理責任還有我們剛剛講的懲戒責任都沒有被究責到都沒有移送到懲戒會去懲戒\n627774\t648661\t所以我就跟你講台灣光是司法制度台灣的司法制度的民事訴訟都不需要等到刑事判決才可以才需要負起民事責任沒有這個東西是一樣的道理如果你們是用一個比較高的標準他是等於利用職務利用執行業務去對人家性侵性騷耶這不是道德倫理了這是法律上都踩到界限了是\n655270\t670698\t對不對 行政責任 倫理責任 懲戒責任 刑法責任各自有不同的要件和認定標準所以呢各自的調查程序和懲戒的標準程序都不會一樣啊\n672225\t693795\t所以你們現在看到的實務面從中央到地方就是要求判決後才有移送懲戒你們的不成文規定就是這樣子啊你剛才五年內的統計你沒有辦法說出一件涉案就交一副懲戒會沒有你剛才的統計資料就是沒有你在這裡嘴巴說你沒有這麼認為你們實務面都是這樣子做\n700838\t707522\t而你還在這裡嘴巴硬不願意承認當你承認你們有這個問題當你們承認有這個問題你承認然後你說你們未來會改進那麼我們是可以接受的你現在是我們沒有我們通通都沒有你現在就是說我通通都沒有\n720837\t735552\t內部處理太過保守而且其實也在藉這個機會因為接下來在7月份台北市衛生局要針對三位醫師的狀況來開懲戒我們也藉這個機會希望大家在懲戒的過程能夠有一個比較有效的作用我再問你一個問題 狼醫職業婦產科有嗎\n736693\t756797\t郎醫只有婦產科有嗎?精神科、兒科的郎醫就算派行以後還仍然繼續職業你們還沒收了民眾的執行權今天要討論的是到婦產科醫師這個看診大家都提心吊膽但是你知道有個兒科醫師2022年記性男醫師\n761048\t789923\t是一個女童的主治醫師 兒科的一時誤想利用而女童求診時為女童與陪同母親實施心臟超音波檢查疑似多次手持超音波探頭 以手抓住碰觸乳房乳頭的方式為猥褻行為涉及猥褻行為法院審理也判刑了七個月緩刑兩年 但判刑七個月緩刑兩年 但\n790902\t818208\t沒有吊銷醫生執照沒有這個醫師懲戒他們後來做成的決議是警告我們也認為事實上希望大家能夠針對這樣尤其是未成年個案事實上醫界應該要有更強的自律才對我們要的是知情權我以後要去看醫生我都要先到衛福部的官網上去看這個醫生有沒有交付懲戒的紀錄這個醫生有沒有這個涉及這個刑事案件\n819468\t843757\t而且更何況兒少法規定49條是97條猥褻兒童得公佈加害人性命我們更嚴謹的狼屍兒虐幼保員有定期公開的機制甚至涉及到性別不當對待的事件會處以終身或幾年內不可任用也沒有辦法進到教保機關繼續服務可是你們對狼醫 狼醫對兒童猥褻\n848118\t855680\t你們是輕輕放下而且還能夠繼續持續的看診服務而且查不到 查詢不到我們性侵案零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨委員提的但也是衛黃委員會通過的你們承諾人家要建置一個平台你們沒有完成就算了其實還繼續在包庇這種狼醫你們就是狼醫包庇的當兇\n877694\t888602\t就不要講說要法律授權 有法律授權啊 而設法有沒有法律授權 有沒有請問你們公佈在哪裡 而設法規定要加害者的名字都要公佈你們有公佈嗎 沒有 因為他是醫生 所以不用公佈如果他是教保員或是狼屍 就要公佈了 但醫生輕輕放下\n903905\t927544\t不是嗎 你們的醫事查詢系統也可以優化你們醫事查詢系統 因為我們要去看婦產科醫師要內診 有時候要麻醉 會昏迷我不知道醫生會對我做什麼 我也很害怕我可不可以上網去查詢一下這個醫生有沒有前科有沒有移動懲戒 有沒有涉及連兒少的也都可以看得到啊\n928979\t957894\t所以你可以在這個既有的醫事查詢系統去優化可是你看你們的醫事查詢系統你們的醫事查詢系統大概只能證明說他是一個有合格執照的醫師吧網站上有姓名人員類別職業的縣市如果同一個縣市兩個同名同姓職登科別類別都一樣我要怎麼辨認哪一個是狼醫\n959554\t963239\t哪一個是我要查詢的那個我在乎的醫師好\n964653\t990884\t等一下慢慢來沒關係 那我又就用這個查詢網站為基礎如果 我再問你第二個問題同名同姓 同科別 都一樣我怎麼確認哪個是哪個 第一個第二個 這個網站裡面如果疑似人員犯案以後甚至遭到判刑以後 沒有被你們吊銷執照改名了 改名了 我怎麼查詢他啊\n992165\t1006935\t改了名就海闊天空了 人生重來了他改名了就不會對病患繼續上下起手嗎我不知道我們的知情權你們給我們的知情權是要 是怎麼樣是這種 不好的查詢系統而且重點也不在這裡喔\n1016431\t1032666\t重點還有一個喔改名以外還有一個喔你們自己在上面的說明一是查詢系統的類別上就是一個笑話民眾在網頁上可以得到完整的資訊嗎事實上是不是\n1034042\t1059654\t你們網頁最底下的說明民眾查詢到的都是醫事人員同意放置的項目這網站不是完整的資訊你看到的資訊都是因為這些醫事人員同意給你看 你才看得到醫事人員不想給你看 你就看不到所以你們有提醒大家如果你要去查查看這是不是狼醫 有沒有記錄\n1061135\t1089796\t如果你在網頁上查詢不到不代表這個人不是醫事人員所以這是不是很荒謬?次長 有沒有很荒謬?護符部本醫事人員查詢系統不管是否查詢得到都在有或沒有之間所以連他有沒有執照 無照醫師滿街跑也查詢不到啊無照醫師不會在這上面因為這上面必須要有執照 然後有直登你怎麼那麼好笑有照的醫師不在這上面才好笑\n1092659\t1114991\t吳趙醫師當然不在這上面但你的好笑荒謬是有趙醫師也可以不在上面你有趙醫師不在上面所以你查詢的這個人到底是有趙吳趙不知道那我請問你你自己的名字為什麼不在上面因為我現在挺夜陳時中為什麼要在上面因為他現在可以 羅益君為什麼要在上面\n1115951\t1141223\t我現在在溫福部所以我停業 蘇經選為什麼在上面陳金輝為什麼在上面 因為你不想被人家查詢報告委員我不是 是因為我現在是停業 我沒有職業登記所以我現在不能在上面那陳時中有嗎 這我不清楚他有職業登記喔 那有沒有違規違法羅怡君也有欸 蘇經選有 陳金輝也有你們都還在看著有職業登記委員的話是可以的\n1144400\t1170487\t所以我現在要跟你講說啊因為各種因素沒職業的所以我講說各種因素啊你今天司法卡案在上面你也是查不到所以你可以利用這種不想公開來掩飾你無法職業的問題我要去查詢某某某他是不是涉案然後你上面跟人家說明說查不到不代表他沒有醫師執照\n1172574\t1193765\t因為他可以公開也可以不公開你這個制度沒問題嗎改了名以後的狼醫怎麼辦這制度沒問題嗎你給我們就只有這樣子就只有這個簡單的資料這樣子不用精進嗎如果對兒受犯以性侵害需要公開你上面也查詢不到\n1194998\t1217394\t這沒有問題嗎?你自己說這樣都沒有問題嗎?不用改進嗎?不用進進嗎?一定要改進這一次報告委員我還是一再強調醫事人員尤其是醫師在持續的繼續教育過程中都有相關的性別平等或者是相關性騷擾防治等等的學分那再來醫事機構本身基於性別工作平等法跟性騷擾防治法也有針對我現在不再講醫事機構跟醫療人員我現在講的是衛福部的這個網頁這個網站這個平台\n1224199\t1241501\t是衛福部的責任啊所以跟我們報告就是說因為之前一月份的時候部長也有承諾我們要有一些公開的這個網頁資訊所以這個部分部長日夜晚回來之後我會跟他盡速把這個部分做起來你現在知道有公開了一月到現在了已經多久了\n1242851\t1262147\t醫改團體說你們這個網頁查詢門檻很高 民眾難自保只可以查到醫事人員的職業縣市 無法得知職業資格是否還有效職業資格有效才會找到面因為他可以不登啊他不登的話民眾上去看找不到 民眾要懷疑他那就是意思他們沒有 你上面告訴人家是\n1264309\t1277073\t也就是說他你畫紅線的再看一遍職業中的醫事人員同意放置的才給予公開如果沒有查到不代表此人不為醫事人員你這句話不就笑話你還能夠講得出來查詢不到的理論上查詢不到應該全部都是無照的可是你你的制度讓他們可以閃躲躲在有照的但是不想公開的人的後面\n1291448\t1312802\t就是承認你們不足 承認有錯誤承認你們做得不好 就是這樣子而已所以呢沒有辦法得知資格 懲處和判決紀錄懲戒紀錄四散各處 查詢不易 搜尋不到或是匿名 啊改名的咧 改名的咧民眾就醫治保 連改名就查不到 那改名的怎麼處理\n1314775\t1329615\t所以其實他還是要跟著他的職登跟職業職照的部分來...就改名啦改名啦他改了名字可是他的職登他還在啊所以到時候如果...我怎麼會知道那個職登號碼跟前一個是幾號一樣的我們在上面的網站...改名了\n1331624\t1352247\t需要依法公開的資訊不需要修法的剛剛講的依須懲戒辦法第22條法院組織法第83條針對判決和懲戒確定的名單就屬於政府應公開的資料我剛剛講兒少裡面的也必要公開都不會違反任何法律都有法律授權\n1353268\t1377266\t那可不可以放進去 提到委員指導這些政府要求公開的資訊我們把它整在一起 讓衛福部整合在這個平台可以嗎我們可以整在這個平台 或讓首頁能夠看得到事權統一如果這塊這麼簡單這麼容易 你們應作為而不作為 就是行政怠惰而且距離部長1月要承諾的 真的是很久 搞很久了\n1378067\t1404556\t英美各個國家都有建制公開平台除了醫師的資格背景職業的狀態還可以就近可進行的查詢有無紀律處分紀錄強化民眾自主的把關透過平台的建制也能夠強化醫界的自律更重要的是減低民眾對特定科別尤其是涉及隱私的科別不信任感和擔憂這個是\n1407641\t1418366\t這個是很多好處的啊不是公開 大多數醫師都不會違規 不會違法大多數的醫師也樂於看到淘汰這些劣幣但是護短的體制是惡行的溫床啊護短的體制是惡行的溫床\n1428511\t1445785\t所以性暴力零容忍政府跟醫界都不應該視而不見輕放拖延建制或優化這個平台的前提我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡\n1447967\t1466393\t所以要 這細節就是你要納入多細微你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權民眾就要一個知情權才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境啊好 謝謝委員指導\n1467566\t1484693\t會不會多久可以把這個平台優化好剛剛有委員要求我們在一個月內去把相關公開資訊的部分做規劃他剛剛沒有討論得很清楚 我現在講得很清楚懲戒的 移送懲戒的相關的法院判決的還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定你們過去五年光是違反議事倫理的沒有一件送懲戒\n1493778\t1505371\t這個標準你要公文下去告訴俗家從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員不是只有判刑確定好啦 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n","txt":"別說太久了好 謝謝主席是不是請我們林次長\n市長其實台大住院醫師的性侵這個個案事實上在一發生的時候不管是醫院地方北市衛生局或者是我們中央新聞剛出來的時候都是用醫事法第25條第二款要判刑確定才會送懲戒\n然後這種法律概念大家都覺得荒謬無比然後醫師利用這個醫療職務機會而犯罪事實上同時已經也違背了這個醫療倫理那如果有高度社會矚目立法院排案要報告了次長就改口了就是說不用第二款我們有我沒有叫你回答你們當時出來的新聞稿新聞大家都看得出來\n當時所有的第一時間地方衛生局、中央、衛福部、醫院、僱主通通都是用要判刑確定或移送懲戒都一開始都是這樣子所以你今天當然是改口了因為今天要到立法院來報告怎麼可以不改口那我不是說這樣子不行而是執行業務違背醫學倫理我現在要問你是說第一個\n有沒有統計這五年醫師因為妨害性自主案件而依據醫師法第25條第二款利用業務機會的犯罪行為經判刑確定而移送懲戒的案例數有多少第一個\n第二個第四款因為執行業務違背醫學倫理而移赴懲戒的案例數又有多少這五年內你可以告訴我這個數字嗎報告委員我這邊就是說這五年內的話\n看一下現在是好5年內的話我們在110年他是有一位醫師是依照醫師法20就是我們講的25條第二懲戒法25條第二款廢止他的醫師證書那另外一個案子我再問你數數量就好了我現在手頭上你接著你不用移\n你不用跟我一一的報告問你這五年內因為妨礙性自主喔然後判刑確定被移送懲戒或者是用第四款更寬鬆的為被醫學輪迷而交付懲戒的案件數有多少你就告訴我就好了我手上這個資料是姓平的案子的話這邊是1234\n我是第二款第四款分開的你為什麼要這樣子回答第二款是判刑確定的一送懲戒有幾個第四款因為違背醫學倫理而交付懲戒的個案有幾個\n我們這邊這幾案多數都是這一個包含性投訴性騷擾案然後懲戒那其中有幾個個案有三個個案是判決之後以第二款來移送懲戒你講的是多久的時間以內最近對三年內三年內對有判刑確定交付懲戒的有三個判刑確定的案子在我現在手上的資料裡面110年有一位判刑確定的案子然後在\n110年的那個就是現在正在7月份台北市政府要召開懲戒會另外一個是111年的那個也是在因為這個案子已經提出為什麼這種問題要回答的這樣2266呢那因為被醫學倫理而交付的有幾件\n違背醫學倫理的案子我們現在手上沒有這樣的資料對嘛 所以嘛你們全部都是等到判刑確定才會交付懲戒啦你們的標準就是要判刑確定啦今天醫事司司長為什麼沒有來我們要講這些問題是說狼醫啊就是由群體依依相互相怨包庇出來的\n你們都用最低的標準一定要踩到刑責確定了才願意交付懲戒你們就是這樣子啊我要跟你講這個案子我要講一個我們地方三窮的故事\n你也掌握說因為妨礙性自主案件的醫生在司法判決以前都可以繼續執業啊所以有一個叫孔凡錦精神科醫師這個個案你有聽說過嗎孔凡錦後來已經被我們廢止醫師證書你不要這樣講在他在他被你們調照以前啊\n發生了第一件是2021年的4月16號在診間強制性交然後呢三個月不到他再次犯下利用權勢性交而且被害者是16歲以上未滿18歲的少女\n兩岸最後當然是判決有罪但是呢 他是幾年才判決有罪 你知道嗎2024年在2021到2024年之間他沒有裁定前恐反警仍然繼續執業而且還招人檢舉他的恐反警的這個診所名稱改名為同安診所\n而且用他哥哥的名字孔繁中去掛名但是實際看整的還是孔繁井所以呢這代表什麼代表說在司法判決以前沒有定業以前你奈何不了他可是事實上不是喔法律法律有工具耶可以讓你們在判決以前\n就可以去給他移送懲戒老闆委員齁孔凡請醫師這個案子事實上在112年8月2號精神科醫學會就通知新北市衛生局來啟動這個醫師懲戒所以後來是在112年8月18日我覺得你不要把責任說是地方政府的問題啦中央跟地方都一樣因為上情下效你們就是這個原則\n你從中央你今天才可以跟大家跟各地方衛生局宣示不用刑事判決就可以移送懲戒這個公文你發的出去嗎你可以發出去嗎我們可以再一次提醒大家依照醫師法第五條好那我就等著看你這張公文因為社會沒有辦法接受司法判決才可以移送懲戒\n更不要講法律明明有規定而主管機關從中央到地方都刻意要選擇判刑確定才要移送成政界那我現在要跟你講喔政大法學院劉鴻恩副教授他有講過委員他曲解我的說法\n國外 我都還沒講他講什麼 你不要這麼緊張 認為劉鴻恩曲解你劉鴻恩有沒有曲解你我不知道 但我現在講劉鴻恩現在我想是他的制度面他怎麼說國外醫生利用診療機會性侵病患 只要是被檢舉甚至是還沒有被判刑但依照主管機關或公會調查的結果\n就已經先被停業處分 調扣執照 吊銷執照的案例不生沒舉而且 重點就在這裡醫師的資料 只要你涉案了 都公開的\n美國紐澤西州一名婦產科醫生因為診療時不當觸摸病患還沒有判刑就先調過執照同樣的在紐澤西州2025年2月兩個醫師因為在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為沒有判刑就被吊銷執照\n加拿大安大略省的一個醫師在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為所以在沒有判刑的狀況就被調供執照美國的阿拉巴馬州對於病人診療時有性方面的不當行為沒有判刑就被調校執照劉鴻恩他這裡沒有講他攻擊你我現在講他講\n他說 證據調查有很多種 刑事責任的刑法責任 當然需要刑事司法的調查但是不是只有刑事責任一種耶 這個行為涉及到行政責任 倫理責任 懲戒責任\n不一定要透過司法調查捏我們的法律裡面像民事責任民事責任需不需要司法調查完成才能夠進行民事責任的審理就你所知道的需要嗎\n所以其實也跟我們報告就是說像相關的這幾個案子其實包含我們之前我們在大院也通過的性平三法以醫師來說他所在職業過程中所發生的這些不當的行為不論是在性別工作平等法性別平等教育法或者是性騷擾防治法都移送懲戒了嗎 都移送懲戒了嗎對 但是你們都給他移送懲戒了嗎沒有 沒有\n你們剛才講的數據你自己講的一清二楚都是刑事判決才移送懲戒這五年裡面你講不出來一涉案沒有經過刑事判決行政責任倫理責任還有我們剛剛講的懲戒責任都沒有被究責到都沒有移送到懲戒會去懲戒\n所以我就跟你講台灣光是司法制度台灣的司法制度的民事訴訟都不需要等到刑事判決才可以才需要負起民事責任沒有這個東西是一樣的道理如果你們是用一個比較高的標準他是等於利用職務利用執行業務去對人家性侵性騷耶這不是道德倫理了這是法律上都踩到界限了是\n對不對 行政責任 倫理責任 懲戒責任 刑法責任各自有不同的要件和認定標準所以呢各自的調查程序和懲戒的標準程序都不會一樣啊\n所以你們現在看到的實務面從中央到地方就是要求判決後才有移送懲戒你們的不成文規定就是這樣子啊你剛才五年內的統計你沒有辦法說出一件涉案就交一副懲戒會沒有你剛才的統計資料就是沒有你在這裡嘴巴說你沒有這麼認為你們實務面都是這樣子做\n而你還在這裡嘴巴硬不願意承認當你承認你們有這個問題當你們承認有這個問題你承認然後你說你們未來會改進那麼我們是可以接受的你現在是我們沒有我們通通都沒有你現在就是說我通通都沒有\n內部處理太過保守而且其實也在藉這個機會因為接下來在7月份台北市衛生局要針對三位醫師的狀況來開懲戒我們也藉這個機會希望大家在懲戒的過程能夠有一個比較有效的作用我再問你一個問題 狼醫職業婦產科有嗎\n郎醫只有婦產科有嗎?精神科、兒科的郎醫就算派行以後還仍然繼續職業你們還沒收了民眾的執行權今天要討論的是到婦產科醫師這個看診大家都提心吊膽但是你知道有個兒科醫師2022年記性男醫師\n是一個女童的主治醫師 兒科的一時誤想利用而女童求診時為女童與陪同母親實施心臟超音波檢查疑似多次手持超音波探頭 以手抓住碰觸乳房乳頭的方式為猥褻行為涉及猥褻行為法院審理也判刑了七個月緩刑兩年 但判刑七個月緩刑兩年 但\n沒有吊銷醫生執照沒有這個醫師懲戒他們後來做成的決議是警告我們也認為事實上希望大家能夠針對這樣尤其是未成年個案事實上醫界應該要有更強的自律才對我們要的是知情權我以後要去看醫生我都要先到衛福部的官網上去看這個醫生有沒有交付懲戒的紀錄這個醫生有沒有這個涉及這個刑事案件\n而且更何況兒少法規定49條是97條猥褻兒童得公佈加害人性命我們更嚴謹的狼屍兒虐幼保員有定期公開的機制甚至涉及到性別不當對待的事件會處以終身或幾年內不可任用也沒有辦法進到教保機關繼續服務可是你們對狼醫 狼醫對兒童猥褻\n你們是輕輕放下而且還能夠繼續持續的看診服務而且查不到 查詢不到我們性侵案零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨委員提的但也是衛黃委員會通過的你們承諾人家要建置一個平台你們沒有完成就算了其實還繼續在包庇這種狼醫你們就是狼醫包庇的當兇\n就不要講說要法律授權 有法律授權啊 而設法有沒有法律授權 有沒有請問你們公佈在哪裡 而設法規定要加害者的名字都要公佈你們有公佈嗎 沒有 因為他是醫生 所以不用公佈如果他是教保員或是狼屍 就要公佈了 但醫生輕輕放下\n不是嗎 你們的醫事查詢系統也可以優化你們醫事查詢系統 因為我們要去看婦產科醫師要內診 有時候要麻醉 會昏迷我不知道醫生會對我做什麼 我也很害怕我可不可以上網去查詢一下這個醫生有沒有前科有沒有移動懲戒 有沒有涉及連兒少的也都可以看得到啊\n所以你可以在這個既有的醫事查詢系統去優化可是你看你們的醫事查詢系統你們的醫事查詢系統大概只能證明說他是一個有合格執照的醫師吧網站上有姓名人員類別職業的縣市如果同一個縣市兩個同名同姓職登科別類別都一樣我要怎麼辨認哪一個是狼醫\n哪一個是我要查詢的那個我在乎的醫師好\n等一下慢慢來沒關係 那我又就用這個查詢網站為基礎如果 我再問你第二個問題同名同姓 同科別 都一樣我怎麼確認哪個是哪個 第一個第二個 這個網站裡面如果疑似人員犯案以後甚至遭到判刑以後 沒有被你們吊銷執照改名了 改名了 我怎麼查詢他啊\n改了名就海闊天空了 人生重來了他改名了就不會對病患繼續上下起手嗎我不知道我們的知情權你們給我們的知情權是要 是怎麼樣是這種 不好的查詢系統而且重點也不在這裡喔\n重點還有一個喔改名以外還有一個喔你們自己在上面的說明一是查詢系統的類別上就是一個笑話民眾在網頁上可以得到完整的資訊嗎事實上是不是\n你們網頁最底下的說明民眾查詢到的都是醫事人員同意放置的項目這網站不是完整的資訊你看到的資訊都是因為這些醫事人員同意給你看 你才看得到醫事人員不想給你看 你就看不到所以你們有提醒大家如果你要去查查看這是不是狼醫 有沒有記錄\n如果你在網頁上查詢不到不代表這個人不是醫事人員所以這是不是很荒謬?次長 有沒有很荒謬?護符部本醫事人員查詢系統不管是否查詢得到都在有或沒有之間所以連他有沒有執照 無照醫師滿街跑也查詢不到啊無照醫師不會在這上面因為這上面必須要有執照 然後有直登你怎麼那麼好笑有照的醫師不在這上面才好笑\n吳趙醫師當然不在這上面但你的好笑荒謬是有趙醫師也可以不在上面你有趙醫師不在上面所以你查詢的這個人到底是有趙吳趙不知道那我請問你你自己的名字為什麼不在上面因為我現在挺夜陳時中為什麼要在上面因為他現在可以 羅益君為什麼要在上面\n我現在在溫福部所以我停業 蘇經選為什麼在上面陳金輝為什麼在上面 因為你不想被人家查詢報告委員我不是 是因為我現在是停業 我沒有職業登記所以我現在不能在上面那陳時中有嗎 這我不清楚他有職業登記喔 那有沒有違規違法羅怡君也有欸 蘇經選有 陳金輝也有你們都還在看著有職業登記委員的話是可以的\n所以我現在要跟你講說啊因為各種因素沒職業的所以我講說各種因素啊你今天司法卡案在上面你也是查不到所以你可以利用這種不想公開來掩飾你無法職業的問題我要去查詢某某某他是不是涉案然後你上面跟人家說明說查不到不代表他沒有醫師執照\n因為他可以公開也可以不公開你這個制度沒問題嗎改了名以後的狼醫怎麼辦這制度沒問題嗎你給我們就只有這樣子就只有這個簡單的資料這樣子不用精進嗎如果對兒受犯以性侵害需要公開你上面也查詢不到\n這沒有問題嗎?你自己說這樣都沒有問題嗎?不用改進嗎?不用進進嗎?一定要改進這一次報告委員我還是一再強調醫事人員尤其是醫師在持續的繼續教育過程中都有相關的性別平等或者是相關性騷擾防治等等的學分那再來醫事機構本身基於性別工作平等法跟性騷擾防治法也有針對我現在不再講醫事機構跟醫療人員我現在講的是衛福部的這個網頁這個網站這個平台\n是衛福部的責任啊所以跟我們報告就是說因為之前一月份的時候部長也有承諾我們要有一些公開的這個網頁資訊所以這個部分部長日夜晚回來之後我會跟他盡速把這個部分做起來你現在知道有公開了一月到現在了已經多久了\n醫改團體說你們這個網頁查詢門檻很高 民眾難自保只可以查到醫事人員的職業縣市 無法得知職業資格是否還有效職業資格有效才會找到面因為他可以不登啊他不登的話民眾上去看找不到 民眾要懷疑他那就是意思他們沒有 你上面告訴人家是\n也就是說他你畫紅線的再看一遍職業中的醫事人員同意放置的才給予公開如果沒有查到不代表此人不為醫事人員你這句話不就笑話你還能夠講得出來查詢不到的理論上查詢不到應該全部都是無照的可是你你的制度讓他們可以閃躲躲在有照的但是不想公開的人的後面\n就是承認你們不足 承認有錯誤承認你們做得不好 就是這樣子而已所以呢沒有辦法得知資格 懲處和判決紀錄懲戒紀錄四散各處 查詢不易 搜尋不到或是匿名 啊改名的咧 改名的咧民眾就醫治保 連改名就查不到 那改名的怎麼處理\n所以其實他還是要跟著他的職登跟職業職照的部分來...就改名啦改名啦他改了名字可是他的職登他還在啊所以到時候如果...我怎麼會知道那個職登號碼跟前一個是幾號一樣的我們在上面的網站...改名了\n需要依法公開的資訊不需要修法的剛剛講的依須懲戒辦法第22條法院組織法第83條針對判決和懲戒確定的名單就屬於政府應公開的資料我剛剛講兒少裡面的也必要公開都不會違反任何法律都有法律授權\n那可不可以放進去 提到委員指導這些政府要求公開的資訊我們把它整在一起 讓衛福部整合在這個平台可以嗎我們可以整在這個平台 或讓首頁能夠看得到事權統一如果這塊這麼簡單這麼容易 你們應作為而不作為 就是行政怠惰而且距離部長1月要承諾的 真的是很久 搞很久了\n英美各個國家都有建制公開平台除了醫師的資格背景職業的狀態還可以就近可進行的查詢有無紀律處分紀錄強化民眾自主的把關透過平台的建制也能夠強化醫界的自律更重要的是減低民眾對特定科別尤其是涉及隱私的科別不信任感和擔憂這個是\n這個是很多好處的啊不是公開 大多數醫師都不會違規 不會違法大多數的醫師也樂於看到淘汰這些劣幣但是護短的體制是惡行的溫床啊護短的體制是惡行的溫床\n所以性暴力零容忍政府跟醫界都不應該視而不見輕放拖延建制或優化這個平台的前提我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡\n所以要 這細節就是你要納入多細微你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權民眾就要一個知情權才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境啊好 謝謝委員指導\n會不會多久可以把這個平台優化好剛剛有委員要求我們在一個月內去把相關公開資訊的部分做規劃他剛剛沒有討論得很清楚 我現在講得很清楚懲戒的 移送懲戒的相關的法院判決的還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定你們過去五年光是違反議事倫理的沒有一件送懲戒\n這個標準你要公文下去告訴俗家從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員不是只有判刑確定好啦 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.654 --> 00:09.491\n別說太久了好謝謝主席是不是請我們林次長\n\n00:17.826 --> 00:39.893\n市長其實台大住院醫師的性侵這個個案事實上在一發生的時候不管是醫院地方北市衛生局或者是我們中央新聞剛出來的時候都是用醫事法第25條第二款要判刑確定才會送懲戒\n\n00:42.301 --> 01:11.120\n然後這種法律概念大家都覺得荒謬無比然後醫師利用這個醫療職務機會而犯罪事實上同時已經也違背了這個醫療倫理那如果有高度社會矚目立法院排案要報告了次長就改口了就是說不用第二款我們有我沒有叫你回答你們當時出來的新聞稿新聞大家都看得出來\n\n01:14.161 --> 01:41.066\n當時所有的第一時間地方衛生局、中央、衛福部、醫院、僱主通通都是用要判刑確定或移送懲戒都一開始都是這樣子所以你今天當然是改口了因為今天要到立法院來報告怎麼可以不改口那我不是說這樣子不行而是執行業務違背醫學倫理我現在要問你是說第一個\n\n01:43.069 --> 02:02.248\n有沒有統計這五年醫師因為妨害性自主案件而依據醫師法第25條第二款利用業務機會的犯罪行為經判刑確定而移送懲戒的案例數有多少第一個\n\n02:03.240 --> 02:18.765\n第二個第四款因為執行業務違背醫學倫理而移赴懲戒的案例數又有多少這五年內你可以告訴我這個數字嗎報告委員我這邊就是說這五年內的話\n\n02:20.706 --> 02:39.746\n看一下現在是好5年內的話我們在110年他是有一位醫師是依照醫師法20就是我們講的25條第二懲戒法25條第二款廢止他的醫師證書那另外一個案子我再問你數數量就好了我現在手頭上你接著你不用移\n\n02:40.607 --> 03:02.538\n你不用跟我一一的報告問你這五年內因為妨礙性自主喔然後判刑確定被移送懲戒或者是用第四款更寬鬆的為被醫學輪迷而交付懲戒的案件數有多少你就告訴我就好了我手上這個資料是姓平的案子的話這邊是1234\n\n03:06.519 --> 03:14.662\n我是第二款第四款分開的你為什麼要這樣子回答第二款是判刑確定的一送懲戒有幾個第四款因為違背醫學倫理而交付懲戒的個案有幾個\n\n03:25.868 --> 03:52.913\n我們這邊這幾案多數都是這一個包含性投訴性騷擾案然後懲戒那其中有幾個個案有三個個案是判決之後以第二款來移送懲戒你講的是多久的時間以內最近對三年內三年內對有判刑確定交付懲戒的有三個判刑確定的案子在我現在手上的資料裡面110年有一位判刑確定的案子然後在\n\n03:55.574 --> 04:13.419\n110年的那個就是現在正在7月份台北市政府要召開懲戒會另外一個是111年的那個也是在因為這個案子已經提出為什麼這種問題要回答的這樣2266呢那因為被醫學倫理而交付的有幾件\n\n04:14.887 --> 04:29.851\n違背醫學倫理的案子我們現在手上沒有這樣的資料對嘛所以嘛你們全部都是等到判刑確定才會交付懲戒啦你們的標準就是要判刑確定啦今天醫事司司長為什麼沒有來我們要講這些問題是說狼醫啊就是由群體依依相互相怨包庇出來的\n\n04:44.011 --> 04:51.578\n你們都用最低的標準一定要踩到刑責確定了才願意交付懲戒你們就是這樣子啊我要跟你講這個案子我要講一個我們地方三窮的故事\n\n05:00.871 --> 05:26.338\n你也掌握說因為妨礙性自主案件的醫生在司法判決以前都可以繼續執業啊所以有一個叫孔凡錦精神科醫師這個個案你有聽說過嗎孔凡錦後來已經被我們廢止醫師證書你不要這樣講在他在他被你們調照以前啊\n\n05:27.902 --> 05:48.284\n發生了第一件是2021年的4月16號在診間強制性交然後呢三個月不到他再次犯下利用權勢性交而且被害者是16歲以上未滿18歲的少女\n\n05:50.101 --> 06:14.679\n兩岸最後當然是判決有罪但是呢他是幾年才判決有罪你知道嗎2024年在2021到2024年之間他沒有裁定前恐反警仍然繼續執業而且還招人檢舉他的恐反警的這個診所名稱改名為同安診所\n\n06:15.285 --> 06:36.898\n而且用他哥哥的名字孔繁中去掛名但是實際看整的還是孔繁井所以呢這代表什麼代表說在司法判決以前沒有定業以前你奈何不了他可是事實上不是喔法律法律有工具耶可以讓你們在判決以前\n\n06:41.221 --> 07:01.520\n就可以去給他移送懲戒老闆委員齁孔凡請醫師這個案子事實上在112年8月2號精神科醫學會就通知新北市衛生局來啟動這個醫師懲戒所以後來是在112年8月18日我覺得你不要把責任說是地方政府的問題啦中央跟地方都一樣因為上情下效你們就是這個原則\n\n07:03.001 --> 07:25.282\n你從中央你今天才可以跟大家跟各地方衛生局宣示不用刑事判決就可以移送懲戒這個公文你發的出去嗎你可以發出去嗎我們可以再一次提醒大家依照醫師法第五條好那我就等著看你這張公文因為社會沒有辦法接受司法判決才可以移送懲戒\n\n07:26.303 --> 07:43.613\n更不要講法律明明有規定而主管機關從中央到地方都刻意要選擇判刑確定才要移送成政界那我現在要跟你講喔政大法學院劉鴻恩副教授他有講過委員他曲解我的說法\n\n07:44.273 --> 08:07.094\n國外我都還沒講他講什麼你不要這麼緊張認為劉鴻恩曲解你劉鴻恩有沒有曲解你我不知道但我現在講劉鴻恩現在我想是他的制度面他怎麼說國外醫生利用診療機會性侵病患只要是被檢舉甚至是還沒有被判刑但依照主管機關或公會調查的結果\n\n08:07.754 --> 08:20.121\n就已經先被停業處分調扣執照吊銷執照的案例不生沒舉而且重點就在這裡醫師的資料只要你涉案了都公開的\n\n08:21.124 --> 08:39.525\n美國紐澤西州一名婦產科醫生因為診療時不當觸摸病患還沒有判刑就先調過執照同樣的在紐澤西州2025年2月兩個醫師因為在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為沒有判刑就被吊銷執照\n\n08:40.726 --> 08:57.950\n加拿大安大略省的一個醫師在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為所以在沒有判刑的狀況就被調供執照美國的阿拉巴馬州對於病人診療時有性方面的不當行為沒有判刑就被調校執照劉鴻恩他這裡沒有講他攻擊你我現在講他講\n\n09:04.051 --> 09:20.204\n他說證據調查有很多種刑事責任的刑法責任當然需要刑事司法的調查但是不是只有刑事責任一種耶這個行為涉及到行政責任倫理責任懲戒責任\n\n09:23.311 --> 09:38.317\n不一定要透過司法調查捏我們的法律裡面像民事責任民事責任需不需要司法調查完成才能夠進行民事責任的審理就你所知道的需要嗎\n\n09:38.957 --> 09:57.921\n所以其實也跟我們報告就是說像相關的這幾個案子其實包含我們之前我們在大院也通過的性平三法以醫師來說他所在職業過程中所發生的這些不當的行為不論是在性別工作平等法性別平等教育法或者是性騷擾防治法都移送懲戒了嗎都移送懲戒了嗎對但是你們都給他移送懲戒了嗎沒有沒有\n\n10:04.042 --> 10:08.684\n你們剛才講的數據你自己講的一清二楚都是刑事判決才移送懲戒這五年裡面你講不出來一涉案沒有經過刑事判決行政責任倫理責任還有我們剛剛講的懲戒責任都沒有被究責到都沒有移送到懲戒會去懲戒\n\n10:27.774 --> 10:48.661\n所以我就跟你講台灣光是司法制度台灣的司法制度的民事訴訟都不需要等到刑事判決才可以才需要負起民事責任沒有這個東西是一樣的道理如果你們是用一個比較高的標準他是等於利用職務利用執行業務去對人家性侵性騷耶這不是道德倫理了這是法律上都踩到界限了是\n\n10:55.270 --> 11:10.698\n對不對行政責任倫理責任懲戒責任刑法責任各自有不同的要件和認定標準所以呢各自的調查程序和懲戒的標準程序都不會一樣啊\n\n11:12.225 --> 11:33.795\n所以你們現在看到的實務面從中央到地方就是要求判決後才有移送懲戒你們的不成文規定就是這樣子啊你剛才五年內的統計你沒有辦法說出一件涉案就交一副懲戒會沒有你剛才的統計資料就是沒有你在這裡嘴巴說你沒有這麼認為你們實務面都是這樣子做\n\n11:40.838 --> 11:47.522\n而你還在這裡嘴巴硬不願意承認當你承認你們有這個問題當你們承認有這個問題你承認然後你說你們未來會改進那麼我們是可以接受的你現在是我們沒有我們通通都沒有你現在就是說我通通都沒有\n\n12:00.837 --> 12:15.552\n內部處理太過保守而且其實也在藉這個機會因為接下來在7月份台北市衛生局要針對三位醫師的狀況來開懲戒我們也藉這個機會希望大家在懲戒的過程能夠有一個比較有效的作用我再問你一個問題狼醫職業婦產科有嗎\n\n12:16.693 --> 12:36.797\n郎醫只有婦產科有嗎?精神科、兒科的郎醫就算派行以後還仍然繼續職業你們還沒收了民眾的執行權今天要討論的是到婦產科醫師這個看診大家都提心吊膽但是你知道有個兒科醫師2022年記性男醫師\n\n12:41.048 --> 13:09.923\n是一個女童的主治醫師兒科的一時誤想利用而女童求診時為女童與陪同母親實施心臟超音波檢查疑似多次手持超音波探頭以手抓住碰觸乳房乳頭的方式為猥褻行為涉及猥褻行為法院審理也判刑了七個月緩刑兩年但判刑七個月緩刑兩年但\n\n13:10.902 --> 13:38.208\n沒有吊銷醫生執照沒有這個醫師懲戒他們後來做成的決議是警告我們也認為事實上希望大家能夠針對這樣尤其是未成年個案事實上醫界應該要有更強的自律才對我們要的是知情權我以後要去看醫生我都要先到衛福部的官網上去看這個醫生有沒有交付懲戒的紀錄這個醫生有沒有這個涉及這個刑事案件\n\n13:39.468 --> 14:03.757\n而且更何況兒少法規定49條是97條猥褻兒童得公佈加害人性命我們更嚴謹的狼屍兒虐幼保員有定期公開的機制甚至涉及到性別不當對待的事件會處以終身或幾年內不可任用也沒有辦法進到教保機關繼續服務可是你們對狼醫狼醫對兒童猥褻\n\n14:08.118 --> 14:15.680\n你們是輕輕放下而且還能夠繼續持續的看診服務而且查不到查詢不到我們性侵案零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨委員提的但也是衛黃委員會通過的你們承諾人家要建置一個平台你們沒有完成就算了其實還繼續在包庇這種狼醫你們就是狼醫包庇的當兇\n\n14:37.694 --> 14:48.602\n就不要講說要法律授權有法律授權啊而設法有沒有法律授權有沒有請問你們公佈在哪裡而設法規定要加害者的名字都要公佈你們有公佈嗎沒有因為他是醫生所以不用公佈如果他是教保員或是狼屍就要公佈了但醫生輕輕放下\n\n15:03.905 --> 15:27.544\n不是嗎你們的醫事查詢系統也可以優化你們醫事查詢系統因為我們要去看婦產科醫師要內診有時候要麻醉會昏迷我不知道醫生會對我做什麼我也很害怕我可不可以上網去查詢一下這個醫生有沒有前科有沒有移動懲戒有沒有涉及連兒少的也都可以看得到啊\n\n15:28.979 --> 15:57.894\n所以你可以在這個既有的醫事查詢系統去優化可是你看你們的醫事查詢系統你們的醫事查詢系統大概只能證明說他是一個有合格執照的醫師吧網站上有姓名人員類別職業的縣市如果同一個縣市兩個同名同姓職登科別類別都一樣我要怎麼辨認哪一個是狼醫\n\n15:59.554 --> 16:03.239\n哪一個是我要查詢的那個我在乎的醫師好\n\n16:04.653 --> 16:30.884\n等一下慢慢來沒關係那我又就用這個查詢網站為基礎如果我再問你第二個問題同名同姓同科別都一樣我怎麼確認哪個是哪個第一個第二個這個網站裡面如果疑似人員犯案以後甚至遭到判刑以後沒有被你們吊銷執照改名了改名了我怎麼查詢他啊\n\n16:32.165 --> 16:46.935\n改了名就海闊天空了人生重來了他改名了就不會對病患繼續上下起手嗎我不知道我們的知情權你們給我們的知情權是要是怎麼樣是這種不好的查詢系統而且重點也不在這裡喔\n\n16:56.431 --> 17:12.666\n重點還有一個喔改名以外還有一個喔你們自己在上面的說明一是查詢系統的類別上就是一個笑話民眾在網頁上可以得到完整的資訊嗎事實上是不是\n\n17:14.042 --> 17:39.654\n你們網頁最底下的說明民眾查詢到的都是醫事人員同意放置的項目這網站不是完整的資訊你看到的資訊都是因為這些醫事人員同意給你看你才看得到醫事人員不想給你看你就看不到所以你們有提醒大家如果你要去查查看這是不是狼醫有沒有記錄\n\n17:41.135 --> 18:09.796\n如果你在網頁上查詢不到不代表這個人不是醫事人員所以這是不是很荒謬?次長有沒有很荒謬?護符部本醫事人員查詢系統不管是否查詢得到都在有或沒有之間所以連他有沒有執照無照醫師滿街跑也查詢不到啊無照醫師不會在這上面因為這上面必須要有執照然後有直登你怎麼那麼好笑有照的醫師不在這上面才好笑\n\n18:12.659 --> 18:34.991\n吳趙醫師當然不在這上面但你的好笑荒謬是有趙醫師也可以不在上面你有趙醫師不在上面所以你查詢的這個人到底是有趙吳趙不知道那我請問你你自己的名字為什麼不在上面因為我現在挺夜陳時中為什麼要在上面因為他現在可以羅益君為什麼要在上面\n\n18:35.951 --> 19:01.223\n我現在在溫福部所以我停業蘇經選為什麼在上面陳金輝為什麼在上面因為你不想被人家查詢報告委員我不是是因為我現在是停業我沒有職業登記所以我現在不能在上面那陳時中有嗎這我不清楚他有職業登記喔那有沒有違規違法羅怡君也有欸蘇經選有陳金輝也有你們都還在看著有職業登記委員的話是可以的\n\n19:04.400 --> 19:30.487\n所以我現在要跟你講說啊因為各種因素沒職業的所以我講說各種因素啊你今天司法卡案在上面你也是查不到所以你可以利用這種不想公開來掩飾你無法職業的問題我要去查詢某某某他是不是涉案然後你上面跟人家說明說查不到不代表他沒有醫師執照\n\n19:32.574 --> 19:53.765\n因為他可以公開也可以不公開你這個制度沒問題嗎改了名以後的狼醫怎麼辦這制度沒問題嗎你給我們就只有這樣子就只有這個簡單的資料這樣子不用精進嗎如果對兒受犯以性侵害需要公開你上面也查詢不到\n\n19:54.998 --> 20:17.394\n這沒有問題嗎?你自己說這樣都沒有問題嗎?不用改進嗎?不用進進嗎?一定要改進這一次報告委員我還是一再強調醫事人員尤其是醫師在持續的繼續教育過程中都有相關的性別平等或者是相關性騷擾防治等等的學分那再來醫事機構本身基於性別工作平等法跟性騷擾防治法也有針對我現在不再講醫事機構跟醫療人員我現在講的是衛福部的這個網頁這個網站這個平台\n\n20:24.199 --> 20:41.501\n是衛福部的責任啊所以跟我們報告就是說因為之前一月份的時候部長也有承諾我們要有一些公開的這個網頁資訊所以這個部分部長日夜晚回來之後我會跟他盡速把這個部分做起來你現在知道有公開了一月到現在了已經多久了\n\n20:42.851 --> 21:02.147\n醫改團體說你們這個網頁查詢門檻很高民眾難自保只可以查到醫事人員的職業縣市無法得知職業資格是否還有效職業資格有效才會找到面因為他可以不登啊他不登的話民眾上去看找不到民眾要懷疑他那就是意思他們沒有你上面告訴人家是\n\n21:04.309 --> 21:17.073\n也就是說他你畫紅線的再看一遍職業中的醫事人員同意放置的才給予公開如果沒有查到不代表此人不為醫事人員你這句話不就笑話你還能夠講得出來查詢不到的理論上查詢不到應該全部都是無照的可是你你的制度讓他們可以閃躲躲在有照的但是不想公開的人的後面\n\n21:31.448 --> 21:52.802\n就是承認你們不足承認有錯誤承認你們做得不好就是這樣子而已所以呢沒有辦法得知資格懲處和判決紀錄懲戒紀錄四散各處查詢不易搜尋不到或是匿名啊改名的咧改名的咧民眾就醫治保連改名就查不到那改名的怎麼處理\n\n21:54.775 --> 22:09.615\n所以其實他還是要跟著他的職登跟職業職照的部分來...就改名啦改名啦他改了名字可是他的職登他還在啊所以到時候如果...我怎麼會知道那個職登號碼跟前一個是幾號一樣的我們在上面的網站...改名了\n\n22:11.624 --> 22:32.247\n需要依法公開的資訊不需要修法的剛剛講的依須懲戒辦法第22條法院組織法第83條針對判決和懲戒確定的名單就屬於政府應公開的資料我剛剛講兒少裡面的也必要公開都不會違反任何法律都有法律授權\n\n22:33.268 --> 22:57.266\n那可不可以放進去提到委員指導這些政府要求公開的資訊我們把它整在一起讓衛福部整合在這個平台可以嗎我們可以整在這個平台或讓首頁能夠看得到事權統一如果這塊這麼簡單這麼容易你們應作為而不作為就是行政怠惰而且距離部長1月要承諾的真的是很久搞很久了\n\n22:58.067 --> 23:24.556\n英美各個國家都有建制公開平台除了醫師的資格背景職業的狀態還可以就近可進行的查詢有無紀律處分紀錄強化民眾自主的把關透過平台的建制也能夠強化醫界的自律更重要的是減低民眾對特定科別尤其是涉及隱私的科別不信任感和擔憂這個是\n\n23:27.641 --> 23:38.366\n這個是很多好處的啊不是公開大多數醫師都不會違規不會違法大多數的醫師也樂於看到淘汰這些劣幣但是護短的體制是惡行的溫床啊護短的體制是惡行的溫床\n\n23:48.511 --> 24:05.785\n所以性暴力零容忍政府跟醫界都不應該視而不見輕放拖延建制或優化這個平台的前提我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡\n\n24:07.967 --> 24:26.393\n所以要這細節就是你要納入多細微你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權民眾就要一個知情權才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境啊好謝謝委員指導\n\n24:27.566 --> 24:44.693\n會不會多久可以把這個平台優化好剛剛有委員要求我們在一個月內去把相關公開資訊的部分做規劃他剛剛沒有討論得很清楚我現在講得很清楚懲戒的移送懲戒的相關的法院判決的還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定你們過去五年光是違反議事倫理的沒有一件送懲戒\n\n24:53.778 --> 25:05.371\n這個標準你要公文下去告訴俗家從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員不是只有判刑確定好啦謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.654,"end":9.491,"text":"別說太久了好 謝謝主席是不是請我們林次長"},{"start":17.826,"end":39.893,"text":"市長其實台大住院醫師的性侵這個個案事實上在一發生的時候不管是醫院地方北市衛生局或者是我們中央新聞剛出來的時候都是用醫事法第25條第二款要判刑確定才會送懲戒"},{"start":42.301,"end":71.12,"text":"然後這種法律概念大家都覺得荒謬無比然後醫師利用這個醫療職務機會而犯罪事實上同時已經也違背了這個醫療倫理那如果有高度社會矚目立法院排案要報告了次長就改口了就是說不用第二款我們有我沒有叫你回答你們當時出來的新聞稿新聞大家都看得出來"},{"start":74.161,"end":101.066,"text":"當時所有的第一時間地方衛生局、中央、衛福部、醫院、僱主通通都是用要判刑確定或移送懲戒都一開始都是這樣子所以你今天當然是改口了因為今天要到立法院來報告怎麼可以不改口那我不是說這樣子不行而是執行業務違背醫學倫理我現在要問你是說第一個"},{"start":103.069,"end":122.248,"text":"有沒有統計這五年醫師因為妨害性自主案件而依據醫師法第25條第二款利用業務機會的犯罪行為經判刑確定而移送懲戒的案例數有多少第一個"},{"start":123.24,"end":138.765,"text":"第二個第四款因為執行業務違背醫學倫理而移赴懲戒的案例數又有多少這五年內你可以告訴我這個數字嗎報告委員我這邊就是說這五年內的話"},{"start":140.706,"end":159.746,"text":"看一下現在是好5年內的話我們在110年他是有一位醫師是依照醫師法20就是我們講的25條第二懲戒法25條第二款廢止他的醫師證書那另外一個案子我再問你數數量就好了我現在手頭上你接著你不用移"},{"start":160.607,"end":182.538,"text":"你不用跟我一一的報告問你這五年內因為妨礙性自主喔然後判刑確定被移送懲戒或者是用第四款更寬鬆的為被醫學輪迷而交付懲戒的案件數有多少你就告訴我就好了我手上這個資料是姓平的案子的話這邊是1234"},{"start":186.519,"end":194.662,"text":"我是第二款第四款分開的你為什麼要這樣子回答第二款是判刑確定的一送懲戒有幾個第四款因為違背醫學倫理而交付懲戒的個案有幾個"},{"start":205.868,"end":232.913,"text":"我們這邊這幾案多數都是這一個包含性投訴性騷擾案然後懲戒那其中有幾個個案有三個個案是判決之後以第二款來移送懲戒你講的是多久的時間以內最近對三年內三年內對有判刑確定交付懲戒的有三個判刑確定的案子在我現在手上的資料裡面110年有一位判刑確定的案子然後在"},{"start":235.574,"end":253.419,"text":"110年的那個就是現在正在7月份台北市政府要召開懲戒會另外一個是111年的那個也是在因為這個案子已經提出為什麼這種問題要回答的這樣2266呢那因為被醫學倫理而交付的有幾件"},{"start":254.887,"end":269.851,"text":"違背醫學倫理的案子我們現在手上沒有這樣的資料對嘛 所以嘛你們全部都是等到判刑確定才會交付懲戒啦你們的標準就是要判刑確定啦今天醫事司司長為什麼沒有來我們要講這些問題是說狼醫啊就是由群體依依相互相怨包庇出來的"},{"start":284.011,"end":291.578,"text":"你們都用最低的標準一定要踩到刑責確定了才願意交付懲戒你們就是這樣子啊我要跟你講這個案子我要講一個我們地方三窮的故事"},{"start":300.871,"end":326.338,"text":"你也掌握說因為妨礙性自主案件的醫生在司法判決以前都可以繼續執業啊所以有一個叫孔凡錦精神科醫師這個個案你有聽說過嗎孔凡錦後來已經被我們廢止醫師證書你不要這樣講在他在他被你們調照以前啊"},{"start":327.902,"end":348.284,"text":"發生了第一件是2021年的4月16號在診間強制性交然後呢三個月不到他再次犯下利用權勢性交而且被害者是16歲以上未滿18歲的少女"},{"start":350.101,"end":374.679,"text":"兩岸最後當然是判決有罪但是呢 他是幾年才判決有罪 你知道嗎2024年在2021到2024年之間他沒有裁定前恐反警仍然繼續執業而且還招人檢舉他的恐反警的這個診所名稱改名為同安診所"},{"start":375.285,"end":396.898,"text":"而且用他哥哥的名字孔繁中去掛名但是實際看整的還是孔繁井所以呢這代表什麼代表說在司法判決以前沒有定業以前你奈何不了他可是事實上不是喔法律法律有工具耶可以讓你們在判決以前"},{"start":401.221,"end":421.52,"text":"就可以去給他移送懲戒老闆委員齁孔凡請醫師這個案子事實上在112年8月2號精神科醫學會就通知新北市衛生局來啟動這個醫師懲戒所以後來是在112年8月18日我覺得你不要把責任說是地方政府的問題啦中央跟地方都一樣因為上情下效你們就是這個原則"},{"start":423.001,"end":445.282,"text":"你從中央你今天才可以跟大家跟各地方衛生局宣示不用刑事判決就可以移送懲戒這個公文你發的出去嗎你可以發出去嗎我們可以再一次提醒大家依照醫師法第五條好那我就等著看你這張公文因為社會沒有辦法接受司法判決才可以移送懲戒"},{"start":446.303,"end":463.613,"text":"更不要講法律明明有規定而主管機關從中央到地方都刻意要選擇判刑確定才要移送成政界那我現在要跟你講喔政大法學院劉鴻恩副教授他有講過委員他曲解我的說法"},{"start":464.273,"end":487.094,"text":"國外 我都還沒講他講什麼 你不要這麼緊張 認為劉鴻恩曲解你劉鴻恩有沒有曲解你我不知道 但我現在講劉鴻恩現在我想是他的制度面他怎麼說國外醫生利用診療機會性侵病患 只要是被檢舉甚至是還沒有被判刑但依照主管機關或公會調查的結果"},{"start":487.754,"end":500.121,"text":"就已經先被停業處分 調扣執照 吊銷執照的案例不生沒舉而且 重點就在這裡醫師的資料 只要你涉案了 都公開的"},{"start":501.124,"end":519.525,"text":"美國紐澤西州一名婦產科醫生因為診療時不當觸摸病患還沒有判刑就先調過執照同樣的在紐澤西州2025年2月兩個醫師因為在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為沒有判刑就被吊銷執照"},{"start":520.726,"end":537.95,"text":"加拿大安大略省的一個醫師在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為所以在沒有判刑的狀況就被調供執照美國的阿拉巴馬州對於病人診療時有性方面的不當行為沒有判刑就被調校執照劉鴻恩他這裡沒有講他攻擊你我現在講他講"},{"start":544.051,"end":560.204,"text":"他說 證據調查有很多種 刑事責任的刑法責任 當然需要刑事司法的調查但是不是只有刑事責任一種耶 這個行為涉及到行政責任 倫理責任 懲戒責任"},{"start":563.311,"end":578.317,"text":"不一定要透過司法調查捏我們的法律裡面像民事責任民事責任需不需要司法調查完成才能夠進行民事責任的審理就你所知道的需要嗎"},{"start":578.957,"end":597.921,"text":"所以其實也跟我們報告就是說像相關的這幾個案子其實包含我們之前我們在大院也通過的性平三法以醫師來說他所在職業過程中所發生的這些不當的行為不論是在性別工作平等法性別平等教育法或者是性騷擾防治法都移送懲戒了嗎 都移送懲戒了嗎對 但是你們都給他移送懲戒了嗎沒有 沒有"},{"start":604.042,"end":608.684,"text":"你們剛才講的數據你自己講的一清二楚都是刑事判決才移送懲戒這五年裡面你講不出來一涉案沒有經過刑事判決行政責任倫理責任還有我們剛剛講的懲戒責任都沒有被究責到都沒有移送到懲戒會去懲戒"},{"start":627.774,"end":648.661,"text":"所以我就跟你講台灣光是司法制度台灣的司法制度的民事訴訟都不需要等到刑事判決才可以才需要負起民事責任沒有這個東西是一樣的道理如果你們是用一個比較高的標準他是等於利用職務利用執行業務去對人家性侵性騷耶這不是道德倫理了這是法律上都踩到界限了是"},{"start":655.27,"end":670.698,"text":"對不對 行政責任 倫理責任 懲戒責任 刑法責任各自有不同的要件和認定標準所以呢各自的調查程序和懲戒的標準程序都不會一樣啊"},{"start":672.225,"end":693.795,"text":"所以你們現在看到的實務面從中央到地方就是要求判決後才有移送懲戒你們的不成文規定就是這樣子啊你剛才五年內的統計你沒有辦法說出一件涉案就交一副懲戒會沒有你剛才的統計資料就是沒有你在這裡嘴巴說你沒有這麼認為你們實務面都是這樣子做"},{"start":700.838,"end":707.522,"text":"而你還在這裡嘴巴硬不願意承認當你承認你們有這個問題當你們承認有這個問題你承認然後你說你們未來會改進那麼我們是可以接受的你現在是我們沒有我們通通都沒有你現在就是說我通通都沒有"},{"start":720.837,"end":735.552,"text":"內部處理太過保守而且其實也在藉這個機會因為接下來在7月份台北市衛生局要針對三位醫師的狀況來開懲戒我們也藉這個機會希望大家在懲戒的過程能夠有一個比較有效的作用我再問你一個問題 狼醫職業婦產科有嗎"},{"start":736.693,"end":756.797,"text":"郎醫只有婦產科有嗎?精神科、兒科的郎醫就算派行以後還仍然繼續職業你們還沒收了民眾的執行權今天要討論的是到婦產科醫師這個看診大家都提心吊膽但是你知道有個兒科醫師2022年記性男醫師"},{"start":761.048,"end":789.923,"text":"是一個女童的主治醫師 兒科的一時誤想利用而女童求診時為女童與陪同母親實施心臟超音波檢查疑似多次手持超音波探頭 以手抓住碰觸乳房乳頭的方式為猥褻行為涉及猥褻行為法院審理也判刑了七個月緩刑兩年 但判刑七個月緩刑兩年 但"},{"start":790.902,"end":818.208,"text":"沒有吊銷醫生執照沒有這個醫師懲戒他們後來做成的決議是警告我們也認為事實上希望大家能夠針對這樣尤其是未成年個案事實上醫界應該要有更強的自律才對我們要的是知情權我以後要去看醫生我都要先到衛福部的官網上去看這個醫生有沒有交付懲戒的紀錄這個醫生有沒有這個涉及這個刑事案件"},{"start":819.468,"end":843.757,"text":"而且更何況兒少法規定49條是97條猥褻兒童得公佈加害人性命我們更嚴謹的狼屍兒虐幼保員有定期公開的機制甚至涉及到性別不當對待的事件會處以終身或幾年內不可任用也沒有辦法進到教保機關繼續服務可是你們對狼醫 狼醫對兒童猥褻"},{"start":848.118,"end":855.68,"text":"你們是輕輕放下而且還能夠繼續持續的看診服務而且查不到 查詢不到我們性侵案零容忍你們這個平台雖然是在野黨委員提的但也是衛黃委員會通過的你們承諾人家要建置一個平台你們沒有完成就算了其實還繼續在包庇這種狼醫你們就是狼醫包庇的當兇"},{"start":877.694,"end":888.602,"text":"就不要講說要法律授權 有法律授權啊 而設法有沒有法律授權 有沒有請問你們公佈在哪裡 而設法規定要加害者的名字都要公佈你們有公佈嗎 沒有 因為他是醫生 所以不用公佈如果他是教保員或是狼屍 就要公佈了 但醫生輕輕放下"},{"start":903.905,"end":927.544,"text":"不是嗎 你們的醫事查詢系統也可以優化你們醫事查詢系統 因為我們要去看婦產科醫師要內診 有時候要麻醉 會昏迷我不知道醫生會對我做什麼 我也很害怕我可不可以上網去查詢一下這個醫生有沒有前科有沒有移動懲戒 有沒有涉及連兒少的也都可以看得到啊"},{"start":928.979,"end":957.894,"text":"所以你可以在這個既有的醫事查詢系統去優化可是你看你們的醫事查詢系統你們的醫事查詢系統大概只能證明說他是一個有合格執照的醫師吧網站上有姓名人員類別職業的縣市如果同一個縣市兩個同名同姓職登科別類別都一樣我要怎麼辨認哪一個是狼醫"},{"start":959.554,"end":963.239,"text":"哪一個是我要查詢的那個我在乎的醫師好"},{"start":964.653,"end":990.884,"text":"等一下慢慢來沒關係 那我又就用這個查詢網站為基礎如果 我再問你第二個問題同名同姓 同科別 都一樣我怎麼確認哪個是哪個 第一個第二個 這個網站裡面如果疑似人員犯案以後甚至遭到判刑以後 沒有被你們吊銷執照改名了 改名了 我怎麼查詢他啊"},{"start":992.165,"end":1006.935,"text":"改了名就海闊天空了 人生重來了他改名了就不會對病患繼續上下起手嗎我不知道我們的知情權你們給我們的知情權是要 是怎麼樣是這種 不好的查詢系統而且重點也不在這裡喔"},{"start":1016.431,"end":1032.666,"text":"重點還有一個喔改名以外還有一個喔你們自己在上面的說明一是查詢系統的類別上就是一個笑話民眾在網頁上可以得到完整的資訊嗎事實上是不是"},{"start":1034.042,"end":1059.654,"text":"你們網頁最底下的說明民眾查詢到的都是醫事人員同意放置的項目這網站不是完整的資訊你看到的資訊都是因為這些醫事人員同意給你看 你才看得到醫事人員不想給你看 你就看不到所以你們有提醒大家如果你要去查查看這是不是狼醫 有沒有記錄"},{"start":1061.135,"end":1089.796,"text":"如果你在網頁上查詢不到不代表這個人不是醫事人員所以這是不是很荒謬?次長 有沒有很荒謬?護符部本醫事人員查詢系統不管是否查詢得到都在有或沒有之間所以連他有沒有執照 無照醫師滿街跑也查詢不到啊無照醫師不會在這上面因為這上面必須要有執照 然後有直登你怎麼那麼好笑有照的醫師不在這上面才好笑"},{"start":1092.659,"end":1114.991,"text":"吳趙醫師當然不在這上面但你的好笑荒謬是有趙醫師也可以不在上面你有趙醫師不在上面所以你查詢的這個人到底是有趙吳趙不知道那我請問你你自己的名字為什麼不在上面因為我現在挺夜陳時中為什麼要在上面因為他現在可以 羅益君為什麼要在上面"},{"start":1115.951,"end":1141.223,"text":"我現在在溫福部所以我停業 蘇經選為什麼在上面陳金輝為什麼在上面 因為你不想被人家查詢報告委員我不是 是因為我現在是停業 我沒有職業登記所以我現在不能在上面那陳時中有嗎 這我不清楚他有職業登記喔 那有沒有違規違法羅怡君也有欸 蘇經選有 陳金輝也有你們都還在看著有職業登記委員的話是可以的"},{"start":1144.4,"end":1170.487,"text":"所以我現在要跟你講說啊因為各種因素沒職業的所以我講說各種因素啊你今天司法卡案在上面你也是查不到所以你可以利用這種不想公開來掩飾你無法職業的問題我要去查詢某某某他是不是涉案然後你上面跟人家說明說查不到不代表他沒有醫師執照"},{"start":1172.574,"end":1193.765,"text":"因為他可以公開也可以不公開你這個制度沒問題嗎改了名以後的狼醫怎麼辦這制度沒問題嗎你給我們就只有這樣子就只有這個簡單的資料這樣子不用精進嗎如果對兒受犯以性侵害需要公開你上面也查詢不到"},{"start":1194.998,"end":1217.394,"text":"這沒有問題嗎?你自己說這樣都沒有問題嗎?不用改進嗎?不用進進嗎?一定要改進這一次報告委員我還是一再強調醫事人員尤其是醫師在持續的繼續教育過程中都有相關的性別平等或者是相關性騷擾防治等等的學分那再來醫事機構本身基於性別工作平等法跟性騷擾防治法也有針對我現在不再講醫事機構跟醫療人員我現在講的是衛福部的這個網頁這個網站這個平台"},{"start":1224.199,"end":1241.501,"text":"是衛福部的責任啊所以跟我們報告就是說因為之前一月份的時候部長也有承諾我們要有一些公開的這個網頁資訊所以這個部分部長日夜晚回來之後我會跟他盡速把這個部分做起來你現在知道有公開了一月到現在了已經多久了"},{"start":1242.851,"end":1262.147,"text":"醫改團體說你們這個網頁查詢門檻很高 民眾難自保只可以查到醫事人員的職業縣市 無法得知職業資格是否還有效職業資格有效才會找到面因為他可以不登啊他不登的話民眾上去看找不到 民眾要懷疑他那就是意思他們沒有 你上面告訴人家是"},{"start":1264.309,"end":1277.073,"text":"也就是說他你畫紅線的再看一遍職業中的醫事人員同意放置的才給予公開如果沒有查到不代表此人不為醫事人員你這句話不就笑話你還能夠講得出來查詢不到的理論上查詢不到應該全部都是無照的可是你你的制度讓他們可以閃躲躲在有照的但是不想公開的人的後面"},{"start":1291.448,"end":1312.802,"text":"就是承認你們不足 承認有錯誤承認你們做得不好 就是這樣子而已所以呢沒有辦法得知資格 懲處和判決紀錄懲戒紀錄四散各處 查詢不易 搜尋不到或是匿名 啊改名的咧 改名的咧民眾就醫治保 連改名就查不到 那改名的怎麼處理"},{"start":1314.775,"end":1329.615,"text":"所以其實他還是要跟著他的職登跟職業職照的部分來...就改名啦改名啦他改了名字可是他的職登他還在啊所以到時候如果...我怎麼會知道那個職登號碼跟前一個是幾號一樣的我們在上面的網站...改名了"},{"start":1331.624,"end":1352.247,"text":"需要依法公開的資訊不需要修法的剛剛講的依須懲戒辦法第22條法院組織法第83條針對判決和懲戒確定的名單就屬於政府應公開的資料我剛剛講兒少裡面的也必要公開都不會違反任何法律都有法律授權"},{"start":1353.268,"end":1377.266,"text":"那可不可以放進去 提到委員指導這些政府要求公開的資訊我們把它整在一起 讓衛福部整合在這個平台可以嗎我們可以整在這個平台 或讓首頁能夠看得到事權統一如果這塊這麼簡單這麼容易 你們應作為而不作為 就是行政怠惰而且距離部長1月要承諾的 真的是很久 搞很久了"},{"start":1378.067,"end":1404.556,"text":"英美各個國家都有建制公開平台除了醫師的資格背景職業的狀態還可以就近可進行的查詢有無紀律處分紀錄強化民眾自主的把關透過平台的建制也能夠強化醫界的自律更重要的是減低民眾對特定科別尤其是涉及隱私的科別不信任感和擔憂這個是"},{"start":1407.641,"end":1418.366,"text":"這個是很多好處的啊不是公開 大多數醫師都不會違規 不會違法大多數的醫師也樂於看到淘汰這些劣幣但是護短的體制是惡行的溫床啊護短的體制是惡行的溫床"},{"start":1428.511,"end":1445.785,"text":"所以性暴力零容忍政府跟醫界都不應該視而不見輕放拖延建制或優化這個平台的前提我們知道不影響醫師的清白但也需要在病人安全和隱私維護之間做權衡"},{"start":1447.967,"end":1466.393,"text":"所以要 這細節就是你要納入多細微你要邀請相關的利害團體大家一起來討論所以我們要一個知情權民眾就要一個知情權才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利給我們一個安心就醫的環境啊好 謝謝委員指導"},{"start":1467.566,"end":1484.693,"text":"會不會多久可以把這個平台優化好剛剛有委員要求我們在一個月內去把相關公開資訊的部分做規劃他剛剛沒有討論得很清楚 我現在講得很清楚懲戒的 移送懲戒的相關的法院判決的還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定你們過去五年光是違反議事倫理的沒有一件送懲戒"},{"start":1493.778,"end":1505.371,"text":"這個標準你要公文下去告訴俗家從中央到地方告訴這個國家所有的執法人員不是只有判刑確定好啦 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":762,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（11時26分）謝謝主席，請林次長。"],["林次長靜儀：委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：次長，有關臺大住院醫師的性侵這個個案，事實上在一發生的時候，不管是醫院、地方、北市衛生局，或者是我們中央單位，新聞剛出來的時候都是用醫事法第二十五條第二款，要判刑確定才會送懲戒，大家都覺得這種法律概念很荒謬無比，醫師利用醫療職務機會而犯罪，同時已經也違背了醫療倫理，如果有高度社會矚目，立法院排案要報告了，次長就改口了，就是說不用第二款，我們有……"],["林次長靜儀：沒有啦，我們都說那五款都可以啦！"],["林委員淑芬：我沒有叫你回答。"],["林次長靜儀：抱歉。"],["林委員淑芬：你們當時出來的新聞稿大家都看得出來，當時所有的第一時間，地方衛生局、中央衛福部、醫院及雇主通通都是用要判刑確定才會移送懲戒，一開始都是這樣子。所以你今天當然是改口了，因為今天要到立法院來報告，怎麼可以不改口，我不是說這樣的不行，而是執行業務違背醫學倫理，我現在要問你的是：第一個，有沒有統計這5年醫師因為妨害性自主案件，而依據醫師法第二十五條第二款，利用業務機會的犯罪行為經判刑確定，而移送懲戒的案例數有多少？第二個，在第四款，這5年內因為執行業務違背醫學倫理，而移付懲戒的案例數又有多少？這5年內，你可以告訴我這些數字嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：報告委員，這5年內的話，我們在110年，有一位醫師是依照醫師法第二十五條第二款規定，移付懲戒並廢止他的醫師證書，另外一個案子……"],["林委員淑芬：我在問你數量就好了。"],["林次長靜儀：我手頭上的數字……"],["林委員淑芬：你不用跟我一一的報告，問你這五年內，因為妨害性自主，然後判刑確定被移送懲戒，或者是用第四款更寬鬆的違背醫學倫理而交付懲戒的案件數有多少？你就告訴我就好了。"],["林次長靜儀：我手上資料性平的案子有5案。"],["林委員淑芬：我是要第二款、第四款分開的，你為什麼要這樣子回答？第二款是判刑確定的，移送懲戒有幾個？第四款，因為違背醫學倫理而交付懲戒的個案有幾個？"],["林次長靜儀：我們這邊這幾案包含投訴性騷擾案，然後懲戒，其中有3個個案是判決之後以第二款來移送懲戒。"],["林委員淑芬：你講的是多久的時間以內？3年？"],["林次長靜儀：對，最近3年內。"],["林委員淑芬：3年內？"],["林次長靜儀：對。"],["林委員淑芬：有判刑確定交付懲戒的有3個？"],["林次長靜儀：判刑確定的案子在我現在手上的資料裡面，110年有一位判刑確定的案子；然後在110年的那個，就是現在7月份臺北市政府要召開懲戒會；另外一個是111年的，這個案子已經提出……"],["林委員淑芬：為什麼這種問題要回答的這樣2266呢？因為違背醫學倫理而交付的有幾件？"],["林次長靜儀：違背醫學倫理的案子，我們現在手上沒有這樣的資料。"],["林委員淑芬：對嘛。所以嘛，你們全部都是等到判刑確定才會交付懲戒啦！你們的標準就是要判刑確定，今天醫事司司長為什麼沒有來？我們要講這些問題是說，狼醫就是由群體醫醫相護、鄉愿包庇出來的，你們都用最低的標準，一定要踩到刑責確定了，才願意交付懲戒，你們就是這樣子。我要跟你講一個案子，我要講一個我們地方三重的故事，因為妨礙性自主案件的醫生在司法判決以前都可以繼續執業，所以有一個叫孔繁錦的精神科醫師，這個個案你有聽說過嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：有，我知道，他後來已經被我們廢止醫師證書。"],["林委員淑芬：你不要這樣講，在他被你們吊照以前發生了一些案件：第一件是在2021年4月16日，他在診間強制性交，然後3個月不到，他再次犯下利用權勢性交，而且被害者是16歲以上未滿18歲的少女，這兩案最後當然是判決有罪，但是他是幾年才判決有罪，你知道嗎？2024年，在2021年到2024年之間，在沒有裁定前，孔繁錦仍然繼續執業，而且還遭人檢舉他的孔繁錦診所改名為同安診所，而且用他哥哥的名字孔繁鐘去掛名，但是實際看診的還是孔繁錦，所以這代表什麼？代表說在司法判決以前、沒有定讞以前，你奈何不了他，可是事實上不是喔，法律有工具，可以讓你們在判決以前，就可以把他移送懲戒。"],["林次長靜儀：報告委員，孔繁錦醫師這個案子事實上在112年8月2日，精神科醫學會就通知新北市衛生局來啟動醫師懲戒，所以後來是在112年8月18日廢止。"],["林委員淑芬：你不要把責任說是地方政府的問題，中央跟地方都一樣，因為上行下效，你們就是這個原則，你今天從中央跟大家、跟各地方衛生局宣示不用刑事判決就可以移送懲戒，這個公文你發得出去嗎？你可以發出去嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：我們可以再一次提醒大家，依照醫師法第五條……"],["林委員淑芬：好，那我就等著看你這張公文，因為社會沒有辦法接受，司法判決才可以移送懲戒，更不要講法律明明有規定，而主管機關從中央到地方都刻意要選擇判刑確定才要移送懲戒，所以我現在要跟你講，政大法學院劉宏恩副教授有講過……"],["林次長靜儀：他曲解我的說法。"],["林委員淑芬：我都還沒講他講什麼，你不要這麼緊張，認為劉宏恩曲解你。"],["林次長靜儀：他是真的前一段時間曲解我的說法。"],["林委員淑芬：劉宏恩有沒有曲解你的說法我不知道，但我現在要講的是劉宏恩對制度面怎麼說。"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["林委員淑芬：國外醫生利用診療機會性侵病患，只要是被檢舉，甚至是還沒有被判刑，但依照主管機關或公會調查的結果，就已經先被停業處分、吊扣執照、吊銷執照的案例不勝枚舉，而且重點就在這裡，醫師的資料只要涉案了都公開，美國紐澤西州一名婦產科醫生，因為診療時不當觸摸病患，還沒有判刑，就先吊扣執照；同樣的，在紐澤西州，2025年2月，兩個醫師因為在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為，沒有判刑，就被吊銷執照；加拿大安大略省的一個醫師，在診療時對病人有性方面的不正當行為，所以在沒有判刑的狀況就被吊扣執照；美國的阿拉巴馬州，若醫師對於病人診療時有性方面的不當行為，沒有判刑，就被吊銷執照。劉宏恩在這裡沒有攻擊你，我現在要講的是，他說證據調查有很多種，刑事責任的刑法責任，當然需要刑事司法的調查，但是不是只有刑事責任一種，這個行為涉及到行政責任、倫理責任、懲戒責任，不一定要透過司法調查，我們的法律裡面像民事責任，民事責任需不需要司法調查完成才能進行民事責任的審理？你就你所知道的回答我，需要嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：所以也跟委員報告，像相關的這幾個案子，包含之前在大院也通過了性平三法，以醫師來說，他在執業過程中所發生的這些不當行為，不論是在性別工作平等法、性別平等教育法或性騷擾防治法……"],["林委員淑芬：都移送懲戒了嗎？都已經送懲戒了嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：我們也提醒大家……"],["林委員淑芬：但是你們都給他移送懲戒了嗎？沒有，沒有！"],["林次長靜儀：所以我們會希望能夠再跟公會再一次……"],["林委員淑芬：如同你剛才講的數據，你自己講得一清二楚，都是刑事判決才移送懲戒，這5年裡面，你講不出來，一涉案沒有經過刑事判決，行政責任、倫理責任、還有我們剛剛講的懲戒責任都沒有被究責到、都沒有移送到懲戒會去懲戒。所以我就跟你講，臺灣光是司法制度，臺灣司法制度的民事訴訟都不需要等到刑事判決才需要負起民事責任，沒有，這個東西是一樣的道理，如果你們是用一個比較高的標準，他是等於利用職務、利用執行業務去對人家性侵、性騷欸！這不是踩到道德倫理的界線了，這是連在法律上都踩到界線了，對不對？"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["林委員淑芬：行政責任、倫理責任、懲戒責任、刑法責任各自有不同的要件和認定標準，所以呢？各自的調查程序和懲戒的標準及程序都不會一樣啊。現在看到的實務面，從中央到地方，就是要求判決後才要移送懲戒。"],["林次長靜儀：沒有要求判決後才移送懲戒。"],["林委員淑芬：你們的不成文規定就是這樣子啊。"],["林次長靜儀：我們希望一切都能主動……"],["林委員淑芬：你剛才講的，在5年內的統計，你沒有辦法說出一件涉案就移送懲戒會的案子，沒有。"],["林次長靜儀：我們也認為這樣過度保守，希望大家能夠積極提出。"],["林委員淑芬：你剛才的統計資料就是沒有，你在這裡嘴巴說你沒有這麼認為，但你們實務面都是這樣子做，而你還在這裡嘴巴硬，不願意承認。剛剛你承認你們有這個問題，當你們承認有這個問題，你承認，然後你說你們未來會改進，那麼我們是可以接受的。你現在是說「我們沒有，我們統統都沒有」。"],["林次長靜儀：我沒有嘴硬，但是我們也知道這個內部太過保守。"],["林委員淑芬：你現在就是說「我統統都沒有」。"],["林次長靜儀：內部處理太過保守，而且其實也藉這個機會，因為接下來在7月份臺北市衛生醫生要針對三位醫師的狀況來開懲戒，我們也藉這個機會希望大家在懲戒的過程能夠有比較有效的作用。"],["林委員淑芬：好，我再問你一個問題，狼醫只有婦產科有嗎？狼醫只有婦產科有嗎？精神科、兒科的狼醫就算判刑以後還仍然繼續執業，你們還沒收了民眾的知情權。今天要討論的是到婦產科醫師看診，大家都提心吊膽，但是你知道2022年有一個兒科的紀性男醫師，是一個女童的主治醫師，一時誤想利用女童求診時，為女童與陪同母親實施心臟超音波檢查，疑似多次手持超音波探頭，以手抓住碰觸乳房、乳頭的方式，涉及猥褻行為，法院審理也判刑了7個月，緩刑兩年半。判刑7個月，緩刑兩年半，沒有吊銷醫生執照，沒有。"],["林次長靜儀：這個醫師懲戒他們後來做成的決議是警告，我們也希望大家能夠針對這樣，尤其是未成年個案，事實上，醫界應該要有更強的自律才對。"],["林委員淑芬：我們要的是知情權，我以後要去看醫生，我都要先到衛福部的官網上去看這個醫生有沒有交付懲戒的紀錄，這個醫生有沒有涉及刑事案件，更何況兒少法第四十九條及第九十七條規定，猥褻兒童得公布加害人姓名，我們更嚴謹了，狼師、兒虐幼保員有定期公開的機制，甚至涉及到性別不當對待的事件，會處以終身或幾年內不可任用，也沒有辦法進到教保機關繼續服務，可是對狼醫對兒童猥褻，你們是輕輕放下，而且還能夠繼續持續看診服務，而且查詢不到。我們對性侵案零容忍，你們這個平台雖然是在野黨委員提的，但也是衛環委員會通過的，你們承諾人家要建置一個平台，你們沒有完成就算了，還繼續包庇這種狼醫，你們就是狼醫的幫兇，就不要講說要法律授權，有法律授權啊，兒少法有沒有法律授權？有沒有？"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["林委員淑芬：請問你們公布在哪裡？"],["林次長靜儀：所以這幾個案子我們會全面地以……"],["林委員淑芬：兒少法規定加害者的名字都要公布，你們有公布嗎？沒有，因為他是醫生，所以不用公布。如果他是教保員或是狼師，就要公布了。是醫生，就輕輕放下，不是嗎？你們的醫事查詢系統也可以優化啊，因為我們要去看婦產科、要內診，有時候要麻醉、會昏迷，我不知道醫生會對我做什麼，我也很害怕，我可不可以上網去查詢一下這個醫生有沒有前科，有沒有移送懲戒？連兒少的也都可以看的到啊，所以你可以在這個既有的醫事查詢系統去優化啊。可是你看你們的醫事查詢系統，大概只能證明他是一個有合格執照的醫師吧，網頁上有姓名、人員類別、執業的縣市，如果同一個縣市有兩個同名同姓的醫師，執登科別、類別都一樣，我要怎麼辨認哪一個是狼醫，哪一個是我要查詢的那個我在乎的醫師？","那我就用這個查詢網站為基礎，我再問你第二個問題，同名、同姓、同科別，都一樣，我怎麼確認哪個是哪個？這是第一個。第二個，這個網站裡面，如果醫事人員犯案以後，甚至遭到判刑以後沒有被你們吊銷執照，他改名了，我怎麼查詢他？改了名就海闊天空了，人生重來了，他改名了就不會對病患繼續上下其手嗎？我不知道你們給我們的知情權是怎麼樣，是這種沒有效的查詢系統，而且重點也不在這裡，重點還有一個，改名以外還有一個，你們自己在上面的說明：醫事查詢系統的類別上就是一個笑話，民眾在網頁上可以得到完整的資訊嗎？事實上是「不是」，你們網頁最底下的說明，民眾查詢到的都是醫事人員同意放置的項目，這網站不是完整的資訊，你看到的資訊都是因為這些醫事人員同意給你看，你才看得到，醫事人員不想給你看，你就看不到，所以你們有提醒大家，如果要去查查看這是不是狼醫、有沒有紀錄，如果你在網頁上查詢不到，不代表這個人不是醫事人員，所以這是不是很荒謬？次長，有沒有很荒謬？衛福部的醫事人員查詢系統不管是否查詢得到，都在有或沒有之間，所以連他有沒有執照都查不到，無照醫師滿街跑，無照醫師也查詢得到啊。"],["林次長靜儀：無照醫師不會在這上面，因為這上面必須要有執照，然後有執登。"],["林委員淑芬：你怎麼那麼好笑？有照的醫師不在這上面才好笑，無照醫師當然不在這上面，但是你的好笑荒謬是有照醫師也可以不在上面，有照醫師不在上面，所以你查詢的這個人到底是有照無照，不知道。那我請問你，你自己的名字為什麼不在上面？"],["林次長靜儀：因為我現在停業。"],["林委員淑芬：陳時中為什麼在上面？"],["林次長靜儀：因為他現在可以……"],["林委員淑芬：羅一鈞為什麼在上面？"],["林次長靜儀：我現在在衛福部，所以我停業……"],["林委員淑芬：蘇清泉為什麼在上面？陳菁徽為什麼在上面？因為你不想被人家查詢。"],["林次長靜儀：報告委員，我不是，是因為我現在是停業，我沒有執業登記，所以我現在不能在上面。"],["林委員淑芬：那陳時中有嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：這我不清楚。"],["林委員淑芬：他有執業登記喔，那有沒有違規違法？羅一鈞也有，蘇清泉有，陳菁徽也有，你們都還是一直在看診，有執業登記。"],["林次長靜儀：委員的話是可以的。"],["林委員淑芬：所以我現在要跟你說，因為各種因素沒執業的，即便司法卡案在上面，你也是查不到，所以這種醫師可以利用這種方式──不想公開，來掩飾無法執業的問題。我要去查詢某某某他是不是涉案，然後上面的說明說，查不到不代表他沒有醫師執照，因為他可以公開、也可以不公開，這個制度沒問題嗎？改了名以後的狼醫怎麼辦？這制度沒問題嗎？你給我們的就只有這樣子，就只有這個簡單的資料，這樣子不用精進嗎？如果對兒少犯性侵害需要公開，上面也查詢不到，這沒有問題嗎？你自己說，這樣都沒有問題嗎？不用改進嗎？不用精進嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：要改進，一定要改進，再一次報告委員，我還是一再強調，醫事人員，尤其是醫師，在持續的繼續教育過程中都有相關的性別平等或相關的性騷擾防治等等的學分。再來，醫事機構本身基於性別工作平等法跟性騷擾防治法，也有針對……"],["林委員淑芬：我現在不是在講醫事機構跟醫療人員，我現在講的是衛福部的這個網頁、這個網站、這個平台是衛福部的責任！"],["林次長靜儀：所以跟委員報告，因為之前1月份的時候部長也有承諾，我們要有一些公開的網頁資訊，所以這個部分在部長從日內瓦回來之後，我會跟他儘速把這個部分做起來補強。"],["林委員淑芬：好，你現在知道有公開了，1月到現在已經多久了？醫改團體說你們這個網頁查詢門檻很高，民眾難自保，只能查到醫事人員的執業縣市，無法得知執業資格是否還有效。"],["林次長靜儀：執業資格有效才會在上面。"],["林委員淑芬：因為他可以不登啊！"],["林次長靜儀：他不登的話，民眾上去看，找不到，民眾會懷疑他不是醫師，他們就……"],["林委員淑芬：沒有，上面告訴人家。"],["林次長靜儀：是，也就是說，能在上面查到的……"],["林委員淑芬：你把畫紅線的部分再看一遍。"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["林委員淑芬：執業中的醫事人員同意放置的才給予公開，如果沒有查到，不代表此人不為醫事人員，你這句話不就笑話，你還能夠講得出來。理論上，查詢不到應該全部都是無照的，可是你的制度讓他們可以閃躲，躲在有照但是不想公開的人後面。"],["林次長靜儀：這個部分我們來調整。"],["林委員淑芬：就是承認你們不足、承認有錯誤、承認你們做得不好，就是這樣子而已。"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["林委員淑芬：所以呢，沒有辦法得知資格、懲處和判決紀錄，懲戒紀錄四散各處，查詢不易、搜尋不到或是匿名，那改名的呢？民眾就醫自保，改名的醫師就查不到，那改名的部分怎麼處理？"],["林次長靜儀：所以其實還是要跟著他的執登跟執業執照的部分來走。"],["林委員淑芬：就改名了。"],["林次長靜儀：雖然他改了名字，可是他的執登還在啊，所以到時候如果公開資訊上來處理……"],["林委員淑芬：我怎麼會知道他的執登號碼跟前一個是一樣的？"],["林次長靜儀：我們在上面這個網站來處理。"],["林委員淑芬：關於需要依法公開的資訊、不需要修法的，有剛剛講的醫師懲戒辦法第二十二條及法院組織法第八十三條，針對判決和懲戒確定的名單就屬政府應公開的資料，我剛剛講，涉及兒少的也必要公開，都不會違反任何法律，都有法律授權，那可不可以放進去？可不可以放進去？"],["林次長靜儀：依照委員指導，這些政府要求公開的資訊，我們把它整在一起，讓衛福部這邊……"],["林委員淑芬：整合在這個平台，可以嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：我們看是整合在這個平台，或是讓大家在首頁能夠看得到。"],["林委員淑芬：事權統一，如果這一塊這麼簡單、這麼容易，你們應作為而不作為就是行政怠惰，而且距離部長1月承諾的，真的是搞很久了，英美各個國家都有建置公開平台，公布所有醫師的資格、背景、執業的狀況，還可以就近、可近性地查詢有無紀律處分紀錄，強化民眾自主把關，透過平台的建置，也能夠強化醫界的自律，更重要是減低民眾對特定科別，尤其是對涉及隱私之科別的不信任感及擔憂，這個是有很多的好處啊！大多數醫師都不會違規、不會違法，大多數醫師也都樂於看到這些劣幣被淘汰，但護短的體制是惡行的溫床啊！護短的體制是惡行的溫床，對於性暴力零容忍，政府及醫界都不應該視而不見、輕放拖延。我們知道建置或優化這個平台的前提是不影響醫師的清白，但也需要在不影響病人安全及隱私維護之間做權衡，這個細節就看你們要納入多細微的程度，所以你要邀集相關利害團體一起討論。我們要的是知情權、民眾要的是知情權，才能夠保障醫病雙方的權利，給我們一個安心就醫的環境。"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員的指導。"],["林委員淑芬：你覺得衛福部需要多久時間可以做好這個平台的優化？"],["林次長靜儀：剛剛有委員要求我們在1個月內要規劃好相關公開資訊的部分。"],["林委員淑芬：剛剛他沒有討論得很清楚，但我現在講得很清楚，移送懲戒的、相關的、法院判決的……"],["林次長靜儀：政府規定要求公開的，我們都會放在平台上公開。"],["林委員淑芬：還有剛剛講的不是判刑確定的部分，過去五年光是違反醫事倫理的沒有一件送懲戒。關於這個標準，你要發公文下去，從中央到地方，告訴這個國家所有的執法人員，不是只有判刑確定而已。"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["林委員淑芬：好啦！謝謝。"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林委員、謝謝次長。","我們現在先處理臨時提案，總共有3案，請一併宣讀。","臨時提案3項：","一、案由：","近來婦產科醫師涉及性侵、性騷案件層出不窮，有國立臺灣大學醫學院附設醫院的婦產科主任，涉性騷多名醫院同仁，經性平會認定性騷情節重大，然至今仍擔任甄審專科醫師資格的學會理事長，甚至據報載將率團代表台灣出訪日本；近日又有婦產科醫師遭爆110年在住院醫師訓練期間對患者性侵，直至今年5月判決出爐，期間未被停職或公布姓名，仍持續接受訓練、診治病人，時間長達3年半。醫師對病人或其他醫療人員（如醫師、護理師）進行性騷擾，同時破壞了權力信任關係與醫療專業倫理。在醫療環境中，醫師往往掌握高度專業知識與決策權，病人則處於身心脆弱、依賴專業照護的狀態，醫療同儕之間也存在階級與上下指導關係。性騷擾、性侵行為不只是個人行為的失控，更是一種對專業素養的違背，甚至將影響整體醫療品質。現行醫師法第25條規定：「醫師有下列情事之一者，由醫師公會或主管機關移付懲戒：二、利用業務機會之犯罪行為，經判刑確定。……四、執行業務違背醫學倫理。……」於醫療場所出現性侵或性騷等行為，本屬於違背醫學倫理重大，然現今各單位均拘泥於第2款的判刑確定，導致懲戒程序緩不濟急，無法即時處理嚴重的違失，爰要求衛生福利部針對醫師法現行條文作出函釋，敘明「違背醫學倫理」之完整內涵，以及應移送懲戒的明確時機與制度指引，供各單位參考，以維護醫病關係與醫療環境的正義與安全。","提案人：陳菁徽　　盧縣一　　陳昭姿","二、主旨：","有鑑於為解決我國醫學中心急診壅塞問題，衛生福利部已於2月擬定三大短期因應策略，分別為醫學中心強化院內病床調度、加強區域醫院聯防機制、強化民眾分級就醫資訊；至於二大中長程改革方向，則是強化護理人力整備及鼓勵醫院投入急重症，研議健保調整給付。然而，考量該類措施發揮的政策效果不盡理想，以至於今年仍有60位急診醫師離職；同時，又有將急診醫師的診療費，錯誤的認定成為提升急診的醫師護理費用等費用計算爭議。爰此，特要求衛生福利部限期於2週內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交精進與檢討報告。","提案人：陳菁徽　　盧縣一　　蘇清泉","三、主旨：","有鑑於在賴總統520就職滿周年之際，我國由台灣醫院協會、中華民國醫師公會全國聯合會、中華民國護理師護士公會全國聯合會、台灣私立醫療院所協會、台灣醫務管理學會等5大醫事團體藉聯合聲明，喊話政府應正視美國關稅政策必定延伸至醫藥原物料與醫療設備，將使健保支出壓力倍增之事實，並應馬上解決位來就「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別預算」規劃之健保基金預算配比僅200億，將明顯不足以支應當前醫療體系所承受的嚴峻壓力，與無法有效因應長期健保點值徧低，導致醫護人力吃緊與進口藥品、醫材成本上漲等急迫問題。是以，特決議衛生福利部應以將配比自200億提升至500億為目標，來積極向行政院及行政院主計總處爭取，藉以提升醫療韌性，並完備透過全面推動擴大癌症篩檢、百億癌藥基金、長照3.0升級、健保財務改革等重大政策，達成健康台灣之施政目標，並於一個月內向本委員會提交書面報告。","提案人：陳菁徽　　盧縣一　　蘇清泉"],["主席：第一案，請問行政單位有沒有意見？"],["呂簡任技正念慈：主席，衛福部這邊針對第一案的部分，我們希望將倒數第五行的「各有關單位，包含衛福部、醫院與公會均有權依法移送懲戒」刪除。因為委員提案的本意是希望不要讓各衛生局在移付懲戒的過程中認為需要拘泥於第二款的判刑確定，部裡對於這個訴求一定會照做，因此，為維持整個文案的明確性，建議把剛才所唸的文字刪除，以上。"],["陳委員菁徽：主席，我可以回復一下嗎？"],["主席：好，可以。"],["陳委員菁徽：這邊有一篇今年5月13日的新聞，內容講到關於黃姓醫師的事件，因此衛福部表示已發文請地方衛生局啟動醫師懲戒委員會，調查完成後，最嚴重可能會廢止醫師證書。這表示你們自己其實就做了這件事情、你們自己就發文給了地方衛生局，為什麼這句話需要刪除呢？"],["林次長靜儀：報告委員，原來的法律中規定的是公會及地方主管機關啟動懲戒，衛福部這邊是知悉這個判決之後另外要求。我們會希望在衛福部有機會知悉這個案子之前，公會或地方主管機關知悉這件事情後就可以依據性騷或性平三法啟動懲戒。"],["陳委員菁徽：這幾個禮拜有許多新聞事件，包括你說衛生局或衛福部不一定會通靈，因此，假使醫師公會或醫療院所沒有揭露或移送懲戒，這是你們也沒有辦法做的事情。然而，今天早上大家討論了這麼多希望可以補這些漏洞的地方，不就是為了這個嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：報告委員，剛剛也有委員指導，所以我們衛福部會再發文給各地方衛生局及公會，提醒各相關公會及地方政府，假設它知悉有這樣的事情，應該就可以移送，不需要拘泥於第二款判刑確定的規定。"],["陳委員菁徽：今天早上醫師公會全聯會可能是看到了新聞，所以他們就提出衛生福利部曾經發給他們的一個函，如果醫學倫理客觀上都足以執行醫師職務有關均可屬之，但這個範圍是真的很大！因此，剛剛有很多委員都很擔心，誠如你剛剛所講，這個醫師可能在這個地方工作，或者與這個地方的公會有非常好的關係，所以我們才會希望擴大能夠移送懲戒的單位，畢竟還是有可能遇到這樣的狀況啊！"],["林次長靜儀：移送懲戒的單位是寫在醫師法第五條，不是醫療法第二十五條吧！這個應該是醫師懲戒辦法吧！"],["呂簡任技正念慈：對，醫師法第二十五條。"],["林次長靜儀：醫師法第二十五條，不是醫療法。委員，這邊是不是……"],["呂簡任技正念慈：向委員回報一下，之前醫師公會全聯會針對性騷是不是適用違反醫學倫理的部分曾經函詢衛福部，所以我們在今年4月22日……"],["陳委員菁徽：我有，在這裡。"],["呂簡任技正念慈：對，因為這個案子的focus在於性騷是不是適用違反醫倫的部分，我們做出明確的解釋，但是就如你剛剛所說的，違反醫學倫理的範圍其實很大，因為在醫師倫理守則中就是這麼大的範圍。"],["陳委員菁徽：也是，我把這份給你們。我可以讓你們刪掉那句話，但是，早上醫師公會也告訴我，他們認為這裡面的定義真的是困難的。"],["林次長靜儀：我想委員也很清楚，事實上，我們與委員一樣都認同法律是最低的、最後的道德標準，因此，在原本的醫師法第二十五條，醫師有下列情事，由醫師公會或主管機關移付懲戒，事實上，第二款的規定是利用業務機會犯罪經判刑確定，但是我們也強調，無論是在第一款的業務上有重大或重複發生過失行為，第三款的非屬醫療必要過度用藥或治療行為，第四款的執行業務違背醫學倫理，或是第五款提到在其他業務上的不正當行為，其實醫事團體內部在專業上會清楚知道執行業務的這個模式、這個方式已經違背了醫學倫理。當然醫師公會可以說這個很不容易認定，但是回過頭來，就是自己業內的人最清楚知道在執行業務中的倫理是什麼，他可以做什麼、他不可以做什麼或他應該做什麼。"],["陳委員菁徽：應該說就是因為他們在同一個體系內，因此他們就更難去做你提到的認定，但我可以同意你們把這句話刪除。不過，早上全聯會表示希望除了解釋倫理的部分之外，可不可以也正式函示給所有的醫療機構，不是只有全聯會收到就可以了。"],["呂簡任技正念慈：我們會再一次把醫師法第二十五條提到的部分及相關醫師懲戒辦法的文字都函示給地方主管機關及公會。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，謝謝。"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：次長，請問一下，各縣市的醫師公會及藥師公會等等，他們是倫理委員會，並沒有特定的懲戒委員會？"],["林次長靜儀：他們要請衛生局召開懲戒委員會。"],["主席：是先送交各縣市的醫師公會、藥師公會或什麼公會，等他們的倫理委員會做完裁定之後送交衛生局，再由衛生局做懲戒，是這樣嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：一發現有這樣的情事，事實上，公會就可以把調查後的資料交給地方衛生局。"],["主席：地方衛生局就直接裁定要停職或……"],["林次長靜儀：啟動醫師懲戒委員會，衛生局要召開懲戒委員會。"],["主席：到部裡是沒有啦？"],["林次長靜儀：部是第二層，如果地方的懲戒委員會做出懲戒決定之後有相關的爭議，我們這邊就會啟動第二次的會議，等於是第二關啦！"],["主席：第一案，把那段文字刪除，大家有沒有意見？"],["陳委員菁徽：可以，同意。"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：通過。","第二案，行政單位有沒有意見？"],["林次長靜儀：配合辦理。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝。"],["主席：第二案照案通過。","第三案。"],["林次長靜儀：關於第三案，我們會積極爭取，不過，至少我們會先確定200億能夠挹注健保這邊的韌性及醫藥的韌性，也謝謝委員的提案。"],["陳委員菁徽：主席，你有什麼意見？"],["主席：我又提了一個關於藥界的提案，在經濟委員會那邊，剛剛與次長做了修改，那又是另外一個案，所以大家一起來努力。"],["陳委員菁徽：好。"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝。"],["主席：第三案就照案通過。","臨時提案3案均已處理完畢。","接下來請陳菁徽委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":138,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-12","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","徐巧芯","盧縣一","黃國昌","劉建國","涂權吉","林淑芬","陳菁徽","陳培瑜","郭昱晴","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","張啓楷","范雲","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","楊曜","賴惠員","葉元之","王育敏","陳冠廷","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","黃捷"],"page_start":43,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部、教育部就「性騷擾防治及外聘督導制度精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145201_00002"}}}