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{\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 62.254, \"end\": 62.274, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 62.274, \"end\": 62.314, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 62.314, \"end\": 62.334, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 62.334, \"end\": 62.354, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 82.225, \"end\": 89.708, \"text\": \"我們這個報告內容其實卻沒有提到113年貴重儀器的使用狀況那第一個呢您是因為這個報告只有針對當時我們在審查預算的時候的問題提出來但是呢現狀卻沒有提是因為這樣的原因嗎那個報告現狀因為這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 82.225, \"end\": 82.805, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 82.805, \"end\": 83.145, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 83.145, \"end\": 83.466, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 83.466, \"end\": 83.906, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"卻\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 83.906, \"end\": 84.006, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 84.006, \"end\": 84.126, 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364.063, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 364.063, \"end\": 364.223, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"探\", \"start\": 364.223, \"end\": 365.444, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 365.444, \"end\": 366.444, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 366.444, \"end\": 366.624, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 366.624, \"end\": 366.965, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 366.965, \"end\": 367.365, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"S\", \"start\": 367.365, \"end\": 367.565, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 367.565, \"end\": 367.645, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"R\", \"start\": 367.645, \"end\": 367.925, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 367.925, \"end\": 368.145, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 368.145, \"end\": 368.325, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 368.325, \"end\": 368.566, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"優\"}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 368.566, \"end\": 370.307, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 370.307, \"end\": 370.547, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 370.547, \"end\": 371.247, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 371.247, \"end\": 371.507, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 371.507, \"end\": 371.667, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 371.667, \"end\": 372.908, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 372.908, \"end\": 373.068, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"某\", \"start\": 373.068, \"end\": 373.268, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 373.268, \"end\": 373.288, \"score\": 0.985}]}, {\"start\": 375.009, \"end\": 391.259, \"text\": \"設計它有比較低的核廢料的產生好 所以簡單的來講就是您認為這樣的計畫是很值得我們一來做很值得來支持的嘛 對不對好 那我想據本期了解國科會其實有持續補助各界對於SMR的一個研究\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 375.009, \"end\": 375.15, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 375.15, \"end\": 375.35, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 375.35, \"end\": 375.97, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"低\", \"start\": 375.97, \"end\": 376.17, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 376.17, \"end\": 376.43, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 376.43, \"end\": 376.73, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 376.73, \"end\": 376.931, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 376.931, \"end\": 377.251, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 377.251, \"end\": 377.431, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 377.431, \"end\": 377.731, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 377.731, \"end\": 377.871, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 377.871, \"end\": 378.491, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 378.491, \"end\": 378.852, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 378.852, \"end\": 379.272, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 379.272, \"end\": 379.292, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 379.292, \"end\": 379.992, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 379.992, \"end\": 380.533, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 380.533, \"end\": 380.673, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 380.673, \"end\": 380.953, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"值\", \"start\": 380.953, \"end\": 381.153, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 381.153, \"end\": 381.653, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 381.653, \"end\": 382.133, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 382.133, \"end\": 382.274, \"score\": 0.62}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 382.274, 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{\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 385.755, \"end\": 385.896, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 385.896, \"end\": 386.016, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 386.016, \"end\": 386.236, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 386.236, \"end\": 387.096, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 387.096, \"end\": 387.997, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 387.997, \"end\": 388.197, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 388.197, \"end\": 388.457, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 388.457, \"end\": 389.117, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 389.117, \"end\": 389.378, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 389.378, \"end\": 389.578, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 389.578, \"end\": 389.778, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 389.778, \"end\": 390.198, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"S\", \"start\": 390.198, \"end\": 390.358, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 390.358, \"end\": 390.498, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"R\", \"start\": 390.498, \"end\": 390.698, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 390.698, \"end\": 390.778, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 390.778, \"end\": 390.958, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 390.958, \"end\": 391.239, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 391.239, \"end\": 391.259, \"score\": 0.004}]}, {\"start\": 392.139, \"end\": 411.057, \"text\": \"那近三年來我們看到補助核安會九件研究計畫總共是841萬2千那也補助了學界進行SMR相關的基礎研究計畫達到五件總共是896萬8千所以三年加起來總共補助了1738萬\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 392.139, \"end\": 392.539, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 392.539, \"end\": 392.74, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 392.74, \"end\": 392.9, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 392.9, \"end\": 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408.054, \"end\": 408.975, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 408.975, \"end\": 409.115, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 409.115, \"end\": 409.356, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 409.356, \"end\": 409.596, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 409.596, \"end\": 409.836, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 409.836, \"end\": 410.096, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 410.096, \"end\": 410.597, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 410.597, \"end\": 410.917, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 410.917, \"end\": 411.037, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 411.037, \"end\": 411.057, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}]}, {\"start\": 413.8, \"end\": 437.755, \"text\": \"但是我們看到國園院在這一年當中一年他就要去爭取過去三年總和的5.7倍所以主委剛剛是有說有支持當然我們也覺得說也是支持可是我們要來看那據主委您的了解國園院提出這樣是好的計畫可是我們的研究量有沒有辦法支持這個計畫的落實執行有辦法消化掉這麼多預算嗎可以的 這點請高院長來回答\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 413.8, \"end\": 414.02, \"score\": 0.506}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 414.02, \"end\": 414.12, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 414.12, \"end\": 414.36, \"score\": 0.614}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 414.36, \"end\": 414.52, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 414.52, \"end\": 415.141, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 415.141, \"end\": 415.841, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 415.841, \"end\": 416.141, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 416.141, \"end\": 416.302, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 416.302, \"end\": 416.822, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 416.822, \"end\": 417.282, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 754.623, \"end\": 754.743, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 754.743, \"end\": 754.963, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 754.963, \"end\": 755.083, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 755.083, \"end\": 755.103, \"score\": 0.899}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,428 --> 00:00:31,070\n好谢谢赵伟首先先帮我请周美莹副院长好有请中研院周副院长好委员好好副院长这一次我们中研院总共有五个书面报告还有一个专案报告在等一下的解读案当中那院长稍早我知道他有过来那也有把这个口头报告做了一个说明那副院长您自己本人有把所有的报告内容都看过了吗\n\n2\n00:00:33,038 --> 00:00:57,091\n應該大致看過大致一百多頁翻過一遍全部看過所以內容你都知道當然背不下來可是內容知道大概知道好我想是應該要比較詳細了解會比較好那去年我們看到在審查中研院預算的時候尤其是有很多位委員我們都有提出來就是中研院貴重儀器使用率低下的一個問題我相信副院長還記得\n\n3\n00:00:58,172 --> 00:01:02,354\n那中研院在解凍報告當中本席有看到111年跟112年的使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比那比這個110年已經改善許多了我們看到數據就是111年是7.56%然後112年是7.75%相較於110年的14.41%有進步可是呢\n\n4\n00:01:22,225 --> 00:01:29,708\n我們這個報告內容其實卻沒有提到113年貴重儀器的使用狀況那第一個呢您是因為這個報告只有針對當時我們在審查預算的時候的問題提出來但是呢現狀卻沒有提是因為這樣的原因嗎那個報告現狀因為這個\n\n5\n00:01:43,792 --> 00:02:01,638\n就是說我們的報告看寫到哪一個部分因為這個地方是寫到哪一個部分就是同一件事情所以副院長我想因為可能你沒有想到說今天那個院長沒有辦法留下來但是你就是應該要做好準備那我們看到這也是本席辦公室跟你們鄉家詢問才知道113年我們又來到了11.1%所以也就是說\n\n6\n00:02:07,740 --> 00:02:35,470\n我們沒有去統計113年的數字可是看起來這113年我們這貴重儀器使用的狀況是更不好了耶所以呢什麼原因不放是因為這個數字難看嘛那實際上我們在113年使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比升高到這麼多那我看起來我們也每年都有編列這個貴重儀器的養護經費嘛所以報告沒有提那我想在這裡請教一下這個副院長我們要怎麼樣改善這個具體的應用措施是什麼\n\n7\n00:02:36,250 --> 00:02:55,096\n謝謝委員的關心因為我們書面報告是在去年委員會審查完以後我們就開始準備的所以那個時候那時候就準備好了為什麼到現在才來提說要解凍沒有現在解凍是因為後來不是整個公佈然後我們還要經過一些\n\n8\n00:02:55,436 --> 00:03:19,637\n對你的意思是說早就準備好所以來不及更新新的狀況是這樣嗎這個東西我可以跟委員解釋為什麼11%如果說我們11%其實是9台我們回去有仔細看過這裡面所謂的使用率天低因為這幾台裡頭大概有4、5台都是在一年內剛剛新構置的所以有很多調整那個這樣子啦副院長我覺得你應該要再給我們一個詳細的報告\n\n9\n00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:42,170\n妳要給我一個詳細的報告因為我沒有時間在這裡啊跟妳詢問說那有幾台那到底是多久妳不能在這裡就是說打一個大概今天其實談到預算每一筆錢都非常的重要每一筆預算經費我們都要詳實我們支持中研院的這個我們支持中研院的預算但是呢我覺得我們在報告當中也要詳細嘛這是彼此的權利義務啊對不對\n\n10\n00:03:45,191 --> 00:04:04,788\n所以呢會後我希望能不能三天之內把這一題你剛剛所說的到底為什麼又會增加那增加的原因是什麼你說有幾台那到底是幾台你說有可能一年那到底是一年還是八個月還是兩年我們要知道找出原因來嘛好那在這個問題我相信一直存在著所以中研院也有想過要去怎麼去解決\n\n11\n00:04:05,529 --> 00:04:18,099\n所以我們也定有了一個全院性核心設施使用及管理要點那我們也希望能夠開放各界學術界這個研究單位跟產業的人士可以來預約使用可是我看起來好像也是沒有增加所以副院長我希望把這一個我現在本期的這個問題你一併三天之內的報告要來給我就是說我們也想去解決這個問題\n\n12\n00:04:30,748 --> 00:04:53,756\n可是看起來好像也不太好解決那到底是沒有必要去買這麼多貴重的儀器還是說的確這樣的貴重的儀器它就是有專門的使用而且是必要性的所以我們應該要存在那這一些你看看你都不講結果都是我們在看的時候我們去設想是不是可能有這個問題有那個問題但是不可以這樣所以三天之內把這個問題釐清楚報告送上來有沒有問題沒有問題我們會把報告給委員\n\n13\n00:04:56,417 --> 00:05:11,185\n好謝謝那您請回那那個主席我們請一下那個河岸會的陳明珍主委好請陳主委對不起再請我們那個國園院的那個高院長好不好好有請國園院高院長\n\n14\n00:05:13,290 --> 00:05:30,947\n謝謝張偉我想主委我們看到其實國研院在之前他有表示說2030年國際上可能會有小型的核子反應器就是SMR的相轉所以我看到核研院也提出四年期的SMR大規模的研究計畫透過這個計畫希望能夠趕上國際的腳步\n\n15\n00:05:35,071 --> 00:05:51,560\n所以呢也提出這個計畫是要向國科會來爭取每年一億以上的這個經費來投入這個研究那我想先請教一下陳主委就是說你怎麼去看或者你怎麼樣去審核這個這個站在這個核安會立場會不會支持這個計畫然後來協助幫忙爭取這個預算核安會是支持的\n\n16\n00:05:57,799 --> 00:06:13,288\n是支持的,所以你認為這個計畫如何?你怎麼看待這樣的一個計畫?這個計畫值得探討,因為在理論上SMR有它的優勢,不管核安方面,在某些\n\n17\n00:06:15,009 --> 00:06:31,259\n設計它有比較低的核廢料的產生好所以簡單的來講就是您認為這樣的計畫是很值得我們一來做很值得來支持的嘛對不對好那我想據本期了解國科會其實有持續補助各界對於SMR的一個研究\n\n18\n00:06:32,139 --> 00:06:51,057\n那近三年來我們看到補助核安會九件研究計畫總共是841萬2千那也補助了學界進行SMR相關的基礎研究計畫達到五件總共是896萬8千所以三年加起來總共補助了1738萬\n\n19\n00:06:53,800 --> 00:07:17,755\n但是我們看到國園院在這一年當中一年他就要去爭取過去三年總和的5.7倍所以主委剛剛是有說有支持當然我們也覺得說也是支持可是我們要來看那據主委您的了解國園院提出這樣是好的計畫可是我們的研究量有沒有辦法支持這個計畫的落實執行有辦法消化掉這麼多預算嗎可以的這點請高院長來回答\n\n20\n00:07:23,493 --> 00:07:39,928\n我們提的就是明年開始希望能夠爭取國歌會能夠核准的四年的計畫大概4.8億這樣的一個計畫規模主要是我們希望能夠做一個很系統性的那個院長針對題目好不好我想我本席講得非常清楚\n\n21\n00:07:40,629 --> 00:08:06,983\n是告訴你說你現在一年要一億嘛對不對那可是我們看到其實國科會去不管是補助核安會補助其他的學術單位啊總共加起來三年也才補助一千七百多萬也就是說這些單位來申請他們能夠消化能夠去執行的就是一千多萬那你是什麼樣的量能或什麼樣的執行力你可以執行到一年一億你能不能重點講一下國營院現在有一千個員工其中有六百位可以參與\n\n22\n00:08:08,396 --> 00:08:10,740\n所以我們這個一年一月的計畫會有600位國務院的員工共同來參與這個計畫100位員工會來執行這個計畫所以我們對於執行這個計畫我們是非常有把握的是嗎\n\n23\n00:08:24,350 --> 00:08:42,321\n是我們到時候會提出一個方案好非常有把握嘛人也夠計畫也很好然後又有這個落實實行力我覺得這樣很棒那國務院會近期有送計畫到國科會來申請預算主委您知不知道國科會最後審核核准補助了多少經費現在還在審核之中還在審核之中院長多少\n\n24\n00:08:51,925 --> 00:09:11,832\n你指的是我們國歌會剛剛核定的一個718萬718萬左右這個是另外一個我們針對SMR的一個反正我們都是針對SMR嘛其中一個計畫對不對這個標的不一樣這是針對它的爐心的一個模擬那國園院現在總共提出了多少的計畫\n\n25\n00:09:13,012 --> 00:09:19,038\n按的這個預算申請今年度就是1543萬另外國科會這個是718萬總共大概2300萬一個700多萬一個1000多萬我們看起來剛剛我們都說支持這個計劃然後這個大家對你們也有信心可是國研院喊出一年要申請到1億然後也有100個人\n\n26\n00:09:38,155 --> 00:09:57,001\n可以來執行但是你確實有提出這種700多萬1000多萬的研究計畫而且經過核准現在也不過就是一個718萬下來所以你喊得這麼大聲說我們有1億我們有100個人執行力都沒有問題但本席看到的就是我們現在這一年1億我們好像也沒有提出來\n\n27\n00:09:57,941 --> 00:10:24,768\n那所以這是一個口號嗎還是只是一個展示一個決心卻沒有詳細可以執行的計畫內容今年核電的已經總共一個剛剛報告過原子能計畫一千四百一千五百四十三萬加這個大概兩千三百萬那明年開始就是我們會提個一億的這個一億的計畫就是更聚焦除了這原來研究的還要擴充到三種到四種新型的反應器所以它的範圍也擴大投入的人數\n\n28\n00:10:25,888 --> 00:10:31,833\n總之就是說我們現在今年是這樣啦反正就是大概兩千多萬啦然後我們後面還有中長期的計畫啦所以呢我覺得啦我們喊了漫天尬想這麼大的一個目標然後呢大家也都支持你看起來也很有把握可是內容計畫現在是空的所以呢我可不可以要求您啦那一樣啦我不敢講再三天啦一個禮拜之內可不可以把這個相關的計畫你送上來讓我們看看你到底啊一年啦齁這個一億\n\n29\n00:10:53,650 --> 00:11:02,139\n四年四億多你到底要做什麼那什麼期程要做什麼東西這可以做到嗎我們已經完成計畫書的兩百頁以上的送到我希望詳細的計畫就送上來包括剛剛我們所提到的為什麼現在的預算數跟我們的計畫差這麼多\n\n30\n00:11:11,809 --> 00:11:25,877\n那最後一分鐘我想就本席知道我們學界對於這個SMR的研究的歷史很久遠那包括清華大學從民國61年我們就開始開發車載型的小型反應爐那一直到不管是運轉後來實驗沒有再繼續到後來89年廚藝拆解我覺得其實\n\n31\n00:11:30,740 --> 00:11:52,518\n都會有點可惜因為花這麼多的時間人力下去所以呢基於國科會跟學界的相關研究基礎我想也建議啦也看國研院你是不是應該後續也要找學界或者是清華大學再重新來合作共同來推動我們SMR的研究的一個進度這樣也可以避免各方過去研究成果的浪費那個院長覺得呢\n\n32\n00:11:53,419 --> 00:12:19,230\n我先回答這部分呢國研院跟清華大學是有合作項目的他們是會密切合作鄉協議請高院長再補充一下是剛剛提到明年開始的四年計畫第一年一千萬我們最少會跟清華大學合作五百到一千萬這種合作項目培育人才做研究已經跟他們的原科院還有幾位教授都已經有初步做一個溝通\n\n33\n00:12:21,727 --> 00:12:35,103\n我想今天都是把这个重点来做一些提醒那我希望除了原有给我们的资料之外能够针对今天本席质询的地方不足的部分一个礼拜再把资讯送到我们办公室来好吗好的谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6428\t31070\t好 谢谢赵伟首先先帮我请周美莹副院长好 有请中研院周副院长好 委员好好 副院长这一次我们中研院总共有五个书面报告还有一个专案报告在等一下的解读案当中那院长稍早我知道他有过来那也有把这个口头报告做了一个说明那副院长您自己本人有把所有的报告内容都看过了吗\n33038\t57091\t應該大致看過 大致一百多頁翻過一遍 全部看過所以內容你都知道當然背不下來 可是內容知道大概知道 好 我想是應該要比較詳細了解會比較好那去年我們看到在審查中研院預算的時候尤其是有很多位委員我們都有提出來就是中研院貴重儀器使用率低下的一個問題我相信副院長還記得\n58172\t62354\t那中研院在解凍報告當中本席有看到111年跟112年的使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比那比這個110年已經改善許多了我們看到數據就是111年是7.56%然後112年是7.75%相較於110年的14.41%有進步可是呢\n82225\t89708\t我們這個報告內容其實卻沒有提到113年貴重儀器的使用狀況那第一個呢您是因為這個報告只有針對當時我們在審查預算的時候的問題提出來但是呢現狀卻沒有提是因為這樣的原因嗎那個報告現狀因為這個\n103792\t121638\t就是說我們的報告看寫到哪一個部分因為這個地方是寫到哪一個部分就是同一件事情所以副院長我想因為可能你沒有想到說今天那個院長沒有辦法留下來但是你就是應該要做好準備那我們看到這也是本席辦公室跟你們鄉家詢問才知道113年我們又來到了11.1%所以也就是說\n127740\t155470\t我們沒有去統計113年的數字可是看起來這113年我們這貴重儀器使用的狀況是更不好了耶所以呢 什麼原因不放是因為這個數字難看嘛那實際上我們在113年使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比升高到這麼多那我看起來我們也每年都有編列這個貴重儀器的養護經費嘛所以報告沒有提那我想在這裡請教一下這個副院長我們要怎麼樣改善這個具體的應用措施是什麼\n156250\t175096\t謝謝委員的關心因為我們書面報告是在去年委員會審查完以後我們就開始準備的所以那個時候那時候就準備好了為什麼到現在才來提說要解凍沒有現在解凍是因為後來不是整個公佈然後我們還要經過一些\n175436\t199637\t對 你的意思是說早就準備好所以來不及更新新的狀況是這樣嗎這個東西我可以跟委員解釋為什麼11%如果說我們11%其實是9台我們回去有仔細看過這裡面所謂的使用率天低因為這幾台裡頭大概有4、5台都是在一年內剛剛新構置的所以有很多調整那個這樣子啦 副院長我覺得你應該要再給我們一個詳細的報告\n203300\t222170\t妳要給我一個詳細的報告因為我沒有時間在這裡啊跟妳詢問說那有幾台那到底是多久妳不能在這裡就是說打一個大概今天其實談到預算每一筆錢都非常的重要每一筆預算經費我們都要詳實我們支持中研院的這個我們支持中研院的預算但是呢我覺得我們在報告當中也要詳細嘛這是彼此的權利義務啊對不對\n225191\t244788\t所以呢會後我希望能不能三天之內把這一題你剛剛所說的到底為什麼又會增加那增加的原因是什麼你說有幾台那到底是幾台你說有可能一年那到底是一年還是八個月還是兩年我們要知道找出原因來嘛好那在這個問題我相信一直存在著所以中研院也有想過要去怎麼去解決\n245529\t258099\t所以我們也定有了一個全院性核心設施使用及管理要點那我們也希望能夠開放各界學術界這個研究單位跟產業的人士可以來預約使用可是我看起來好像也是沒有增加所以副院長我希望把這一個我現在本期的這個問題你一併三天之內的報告要來給我就是說我們也想去解決這個問題\n270748\t293756\t可是看起來好像也不太好解決那到底是沒有必要去買這麼多貴重的儀器還是說的確這樣的貴重的儀器它就是有專門的使用而且是必要性的所以我們應該要存在那這一些你看看你都不講結果都是我們在看的時候我們去設想是不是可能有這個問題有那個問題但是不可以這樣所以三天之內把這個問題釐清楚報告送上來有沒有問題沒有問題我們會把報告給委員\n296417\t311185\t好 謝謝 那您請回 那那個主席我們請一下那個河岸會的陳明珍主委好 請陳主委對不起 再請我們那個國園院的那個高院長好不好好 有請國園院高院長\n313290\t330947\t謝謝張偉我想主委我們看到其實國研院在之前他有表示說2030年國際上可能會有小型的核子反應器就是SMR的相轉所以我看到核研院也提出四年期的SMR大規模的研究計畫透過這個計畫希望能夠趕上國際的腳步\n335071\t351560\t所以呢也提出這個計畫是要向國科會來爭取每年一億以上的這個經費來投入這個研究那我想先請教一下陳主委就是說你怎麼去看或者你怎麼樣去審核這個這個站在這個核安會立場會不會支持這個計畫然後來協助幫忙爭取這個預算核安會是支持的\n357799\t373288\t是支持的,所以你認為這個計畫如何?你怎麼看待這樣的一個計畫?這個計畫值得探討,因為在理論上SMR有它的優勢,不管核安方面,在某些\n375009\t391259\t設計它有比較低的核廢料的產生好 所以簡單的來講就是您認為這樣的計畫是很值得我們一來做很值得來支持的嘛 對不對好 那我想據本期了解國科會其實有持續補助各界對於SMR的一個研究\n392139\t411057\t那近三年來我們看到補助核安會九件研究計畫總共是841萬2千那也補助了學界進行SMR相關的基礎研究計畫達到五件總共是896萬8千所以三年加起來總共補助了1738萬\n413800\t437755\t但是我們看到國園院在這一年當中一年他就要去爭取過去三年總和的5.7倍所以主委剛剛是有說有支持當然我們也覺得說也是支持可是我們要來看那據主委您的了解國園院提出這樣是好的計畫可是我們的研究量有沒有辦法支持這個計畫的落實執行有辦法消化掉這麼多預算嗎可以的 這點請高院長來回答\n443493\t459928\t我們提的就是明年開始希望能夠爭取國歌會能夠核准的四年的計畫大概4.8億這樣的一個計畫規模主要是我們希望能夠做一個很系統性的那個院長針對題目好不好我想我本席講得非常清楚\n460629\t486983\t是告訴你說你現在一年要一億嘛對不對那可是我們看到其實國科會去不管是補助核安會補助其他的學術單位啊總共加起來三年也才補助一千七百多萬也就是說這些單位來申請他們能夠消化能夠去執行的就是一千多萬那你是什麼樣的量能或什麼樣的執行力你可以執行到一年一億你能不能重點講一下國營院現在有一千個員工其中有六百位可以參與\n488396\t490740\t所以我們這個一年一月的計畫會有600位國務院的員工共同來參與這個計畫100位員工會來執行這個計畫所以我們對於執行這個計畫我們是非常有把握的是嗎\n504350\t522321\t是 我們到時候會提出一個方案好 非常有把握嘛 人也夠 計畫也很好然後又有這個落實實行力 我覺得這樣很棒那國務院會近期有送計畫到國科會來申請預算主委 您知不知道國科會最後審核核准補助了多少經費現在還在審核之中還在審核之中 院長 多少\n531925\t551832\t你指的是我們國歌會剛剛核定的一個718萬718萬左右這個是另外一個我們針對SMR的一個反正我們都是針對SMR嘛其中一個計畫對不對這個標的不一樣這是針對它的爐心的一個模擬那國園院現在總共提出了多少的計畫\n553012\t559038\t按的這個預算申請今年度就是1543萬另外國科會這個是718萬總共大概2300萬一個700多萬一個1000多萬我們看起來剛剛我們都說支持這個計劃然後這個大家對你們也有信心可是國研院喊出一年要申請到1億然後也有100個人\n578155\t597001\t可以來執行但是你確實有提出這種700多萬1000多萬的研究計畫而且經過核准現在也不過就是一個718萬下來所以你喊得這麼大聲說我們有1億我們有100個人執行力都沒有問題但本席看到的就是我們現在這一年1億我們好像也沒有提出來\n597941\t624768\t那所以這是一個口號嗎還是只是一個展示一個決心卻沒有詳細可以執行的計畫內容今年核電的已經總共一個剛剛報告過原子能計畫一千四百一千五百四十三萬加這個大概兩千三百萬那明年開始就是我們會提個一億的這個一億的計畫就是更聚焦除了這原來研究的還要擴充到三種到四種新型的反應器所以它的範圍也擴大投入的人數\n625888\t631833\t總之就是說 我們現在今年是這樣啦反正就是大概兩千多萬啦然後我們後面還有中長期的計畫啦所以呢 我覺得啦我們喊了漫天尬想這麼大的一個目標然後呢 大家也都支持你看起來也很有把握可是內容計畫現在是空的所以呢 我可不可以要求您啦那一樣啦 我不敢講再三天啦一個禮拜之內可不可以把這個相關的計畫你送上來讓我們看看你到底啊一年啦齁 這個一億\n653650\t662139\t四年四億多你到底要做什麼那什麼期程要做什麼東西這可以做到嗎我們已經完成計畫書的兩百頁以上的送到我希望詳細的計畫就送上來包括剛剛我們所提到的為什麼現在的預算數跟我們的計畫差這麼多\n671809\t685877\t那最後一分鐘我想就本席知道我們學界對於這個SMR的研究的歷史很久遠那包括清華大學從民國61年我們就開始開發車載型的小型反應爐那一直到不管是運轉後來實驗沒有再繼續到後來89年廚藝拆解我覺得其實\n690740\t712518\t都會有點可惜因為花這麼多的時間人力下去所以呢基於國科會跟學界的相關研究基礎我想也建議啦也看國研院你是不是應該後續也要找學界或者是清華大學再重新來合作共同來推動我們SMR的研究的一個進度這樣也可以避免各方過去研究成果的浪費那個院長覺得呢\n713419\t739230\t我先回答 這部分呢 國研院跟清華大學是有合作項目的他們是會密切合作 鄉協議請高院長再補充一下是 剛剛提到明年開始的四年計畫第一年一千萬我們最少會跟清華大學合作五百到一千萬這種合作項目培育人才 做研究 已經跟他們的原科院還有幾位教授都已經有初步做一個溝通\n741727\t755103\t我想今天都是把这个重点来做一些提醒那我希望除了原有给我们的资料之外能够针对今天本席质询的地方不足的部分一个礼拜再把资讯送到我们办公室来好吗好的谢谢\n","txt":"好 谢谢赵伟首先先帮我请周美莹副院长好 有请中研院周副院长好 委员好好 副院长这一次我们中研院总共有五个书面报告还有一个专案报告在等一下的解读案当中那院长稍早我知道他有过来那也有把这个口头报告做了一个说明那副院长您自己本人有把所有的报告内容都看过了吗\n應該大致看過 大致一百多頁翻過一遍 全部看過所以內容你都知道當然背不下來 可是內容知道大概知道 好 我想是應該要比較詳細了解會比較好那去年我們看到在審查中研院預算的時候尤其是有很多位委員我們都有提出來就是中研院貴重儀器使用率低下的一個問題我相信副院長還記得\n那中研院在解凍報告當中本席有看到111年跟112年的使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比那比這個110年已經改善許多了我們看到數據就是111年是7.56%然後112年是7.75%相較於110年的14.41%有進步可是呢\n我們這個報告內容其實卻沒有提到113年貴重儀器的使用狀況那第一個呢您是因為這個報告只有針對當時我們在審查預算的時候的問題提出來但是呢現狀卻沒有提是因為這樣的原因嗎那個報告現狀因為這個\n就是說我們的報告看寫到哪一個部分因為這個地方是寫到哪一個部分就是同一件事情所以副院長我想因為可能你沒有想到說今天那個院長沒有辦法留下來但是你就是應該要做好準備那我們看到這也是本席辦公室跟你們鄉家詢問才知道113年我們又來到了11.1%所以也就是說\n我們沒有去統計113年的數字可是看起來這113年我們這貴重儀器使用的狀況是更不好了耶所以呢 什麼原因不放是因為這個數字難看嘛那實際上我們在113年使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比升高到這麼多那我看起來我們也每年都有編列這個貴重儀器的養護經費嘛所以報告沒有提那我想在這裡請教一下這個副院長我們要怎麼樣改善這個具體的應用措施是什麼\n謝謝委員的關心因為我們書面報告是在去年委員會審查完以後我們就開始準備的所以那個時候那時候就準備好了為什麼到現在才來提說要解凍沒有現在解凍是因為後來不是整個公佈然後我們還要經過一些\n對 你的意思是說早就準備好所以來不及更新新的狀況是這樣嗎這個東西我可以跟委員解釋為什麼11%如果說我們11%其實是9台我們回去有仔細看過這裡面所謂的使用率天低因為這幾台裡頭大概有4、5台都是在一年內剛剛新構置的所以有很多調整那個這樣子啦 副院長我覺得你應該要再給我們一個詳細的報告\n妳要給我一個詳細的報告因為我沒有時間在這裡啊跟妳詢問說那有幾台那到底是多久妳不能在這裡就是說打一個大概今天其實談到預算每一筆錢都非常的重要每一筆預算經費我們都要詳實我們支持中研院的這個我們支持中研院的預算但是呢我覺得我們在報告當中也要詳細嘛這是彼此的權利義務啊對不對\n所以呢會後我希望能不能三天之內把這一題你剛剛所說的到底為什麼又會增加那增加的原因是什麼你說有幾台那到底是幾台你說有可能一年那到底是一年還是八個月還是兩年我們要知道找出原因來嘛好那在這個問題我相信一直存在著所以中研院也有想過要去怎麼去解決\n所以我們也定有了一個全院性核心設施使用及管理要點那我們也希望能夠開放各界學術界這個研究單位跟產業的人士可以來預約使用可是我看起來好像也是沒有增加所以副院長我希望把這一個我現在本期的這個問題你一併三天之內的報告要來給我就是說我們也想去解決這個問題\n可是看起來好像也不太好解決那到底是沒有必要去買這麼多貴重的儀器還是說的確這樣的貴重的儀器它就是有專門的使用而且是必要性的所以我們應該要存在那這一些你看看你都不講結果都是我們在看的時候我們去設想是不是可能有這個問題有那個問題但是不可以這樣所以三天之內把這個問題釐清楚報告送上來有沒有問題沒有問題我們會把報告給委員\n好 謝謝 那您請回 那那個主席我們請一下那個河岸會的陳明珍主委好 請陳主委對不起 再請我們那個國園院的那個高院長好不好好 有請國園院高院長\n謝謝張偉我想主委我們看到其實國研院在之前他有表示說2030年國際上可能會有小型的核子反應器就是SMR的相轉所以我看到核研院也提出四年期的SMR大規模的研究計畫透過這個計畫希望能夠趕上國際的腳步\n所以呢也提出這個計畫是要向國科會來爭取每年一億以上的這個經費來投入這個研究那我想先請教一下陳主委就是說你怎麼去看或者你怎麼樣去審核這個這個站在這個核安會立場會不會支持這個計畫然後來協助幫忙爭取這個預算核安會是支持的\n是支持的,所以你認為這個計畫如何?你怎麼看待這樣的一個計畫?這個計畫值得探討,因為在理論上SMR有它的優勢,不管核安方面,在某些\n設計它有比較低的核廢料的產生好 所以簡單的來講就是您認為這樣的計畫是很值得我們一來做很值得來支持的嘛 對不對好 那我想據本期了解國科會其實有持續補助各界對於SMR的一個研究\n那近三年來我們看到補助核安會九件研究計畫總共是841萬2千那也補助了學界進行SMR相關的基礎研究計畫達到五件總共是896萬8千所以三年加起來總共補助了1738萬\n但是我們看到國園院在這一年當中一年他就要去爭取過去三年總和的5.7倍所以主委剛剛是有說有支持當然我們也覺得說也是支持可是我們要來看那據主委您的了解國園院提出這樣是好的計畫可是我們的研究量有沒有辦法支持這個計畫的落實執行有辦法消化掉這麼多預算嗎可以的 這點請高院長來回答\n我們提的就是明年開始希望能夠爭取國歌會能夠核准的四年的計畫大概4.8億這樣的一個計畫規模主要是我們希望能夠做一個很系統性的那個院長針對題目好不好我想我本席講得非常清楚\n是告訴你說你現在一年要一億嘛對不對那可是我們看到其實國科會去不管是補助核安會補助其他的學術單位啊總共加起來三年也才補助一千七百多萬也就是說這些單位來申請他們能夠消化能夠去執行的就是一千多萬那你是什麼樣的量能或什麼樣的執行力你可以執行到一年一億你能不能重點講一下國營院現在有一千個員工其中有六百位可以參與\n所以我們這個一年一月的計畫會有600位國務院的員工共同來參與這個計畫100位員工會來執行這個計畫所以我們對於執行這個計畫我們是非常有把握的是嗎\n是 我們到時候會提出一個方案好 非常有把握嘛 人也夠 計畫也很好然後又有這個落實實行力 我覺得這樣很棒那國務院會近期有送計畫到國科會來申請預算主委 您知不知道國科會最後審核核准補助了多少經費現在還在審核之中還在審核之中 院長 多少\n你指的是我們國歌會剛剛核定的一個718萬718萬左右這個是另外一個我們針對SMR的一個反正我們都是針對SMR嘛其中一個計畫對不對這個標的不一樣這是針對它的爐心的一個模擬那國園院現在總共提出了多少的計畫\n按的這個預算申請今年度就是1543萬另外國科會這個是718萬總共大概2300萬一個700多萬一個1000多萬我們看起來剛剛我們都說支持這個計劃然後這個大家對你們也有信心可是國研院喊出一年要申請到1億然後也有100個人\n可以來執行但是你確實有提出這種700多萬1000多萬的研究計畫而且經過核准現在也不過就是一個718萬下來所以你喊得這麼大聲說我們有1億我們有100個人執行力都沒有問題但本席看到的就是我們現在這一年1億我們好像也沒有提出來\n那所以這是一個口號嗎還是只是一個展示一個決心卻沒有詳細可以執行的計畫內容今年核電的已經總共一個剛剛報告過原子能計畫一千四百一千五百四十三萬加這個大概兩千三百萬那明年開始就是我們會提個一億的這個一億的計畫就是更聚焦除了這原來研究的還要擴充到三種到四種新型的反應器所以它的範圍也擴大投入的人數\n總之就是說 我們現在今年是這樣啦反正就是大概兩千多萬啦然後我們後面還有中長期的計畫啦所以呢 我覺得啦我們喊了漫天尬想這麼大的一個目標然後呢 大家也都支持你看起來也很有把握可是內容計畫現在是空的所以呢 我可不可以要求您啦那一樣啦 我不敢講再三天啦一個禮拜之內可不可以把這個相關的計畫你送上來讓我們看看你到底啊一年啦齁 這個一億\n四年四億多你到底要做什麼那什麼期程要做什麼東西這可以做到嗎我們已經完成計畫書的兩百頁以上的送到我希望詳細的計畫就送上來包括剛剛我們所提到的為什麼現在的預算數跟我們的計畫差這麼多\n那最後一分鐘我想就本席知道我們學界對於這個SMR的研究的歷史很久遠那包括清華大學從民國61年我們就開始開發車載型的小型反應爐那一直到不管是運轉後來實驗沒有再繼續到後來89年廚藝拆解我覺得其實\n都會有點可惜因為花這麼多的時間人力下去所以呢基於國科會跟學界的相關研究基礎我想也建議啦也看國研院你是不是應該後續也要找學界或者是清華大學再重新來合作共同來推動我們SMR的研究的一個進度這樣也可以避免各方過去研究成果的浪費那個院長覺得呢\n我先回答 這部分呢 國研院跟清華大學是有合作項目的他們是會密切合作 鄉協議請高院長再補充一下是 剛剛提到明年開始的四年計畫第一年一千萬我們最少會跟清華大學合作五百到一千萬這種合作項目培育人才 做研究 已經跟他們的原科院還有幾位教授都已經有初步做一個溝通\n我想今天都是把这个重点来做一些提醒那我希望除了原有给我们的资料之外能够针对今天本席质询的地方不足的部分一个礼拜再把资讯送到我们办公室来好吗好的谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.428 --> 00:31.070\n好谢谢赵伟首先先帮我请周美莹副院长好有请中研院周副院长好委员好好副院长这一次我们中研院总共有五个书面报告还有一个专案报告在等一下的解读案当中那院长稍早我知道他有过来那也有把这个口头报告做了一个说明那副院长您自己本人有把所有的报告内容都看过了吗\n\n00:33.038 --> 00:57.091\n應該大致看過大致一百多頁翻過一遍全部看過所以內容你都知道當然背不下來可是內容知道大概知道好我想是應該要比較詳細了解會比較好那去年我們看到在審查中研院預算的時候尤其是有很多位委員我們都有提出來就是中研院貴重儀器使用率低下的一個問題我相信副院長還記得\n\n00:58.172 --> 01:02.354\n那中研院在解凍報告當中本席有看到111年跟112年的使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比那比這個110年已經改善許多了我們看到數據就是111年是7.56%然後112年是7.75%相較於110年的14.41%有進步可是呢\n\n01:22.225 --> 01:29.708\n我們這個報告內容其實卻沒有提到113年貴重儀器的使用狀況那第一個呢您是因為這個報告只有針對當時我們在審查預算的時候的問題提出來但是呢現狀卻沒有提是因為這樣的原因嗎那個報告現狀因為這個\n\n01:43.792 --> 02:01.638\n就是說我們的報告看寫到哪一個部分因為這個地方是寫到哪一個部分就是同一件事情所以副院長我想因為可能你沒有想到說今天那個院長沒有辦法留下來但是你就是應該要做好準備那我們看到這也是本席辦公室跟你們鄉家詢問才知道113年我們又來到了11.1%所以也就是說\n\n02:07.740 --> 02:35.470\n我們沒有去統計113年的數字可是看起來這113年我們這貴重儀器使用的狀況是更不好了耶所以呢什麼原因不放是因為這個數字難看嘛那實際上我們在113年使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比升高到這麼多那我看起來我們也每年都有編列這個貴重儀器的養護經費嘛所以報告沒有提那我想在這裡請教一下這個副院長我們要怎麼樣改善這個具體的應用措施是什麼\n\n02:36.250 --> 02:55.096\n謝謝委員的關心因為我們書面報告是在去年委員會審查完以後我們就開始準備的所以那個時候那時候就準備好了為什麼到現在才來提說要解凍沒有現在解凍是因為後來不是整個公佈然後我們還要經過一些\n\n02:55.436 --> 03:19.637\n對你的意思是說早就準備好所以來不及更新新的狀況是這樣嗎這個東西我可以跟委員解釋為什麼11%如果說我們11%其實是9台我們回去有仔細看過這裡面所謂的使用率天低因為這幾台裡頭大概有4、5台都是在一年內剛剛新構置的所以有很多調整那個這樣子啦副院長我覺得你應該要再給我們一個詳細的報告\n\n03:23.300 --> 03:42.170\n妳要給我一個詳細的報告因為我沒有時間在這裡啊跟妳詢問說那有幾台那到底是多久妳不能在這裡就是說打一個大概今天其實談到預算每一筆錢都非常的重要每一筆預算經費我們都要詳實我們支持中研院的這個我們支持中研院的預算但是呢我覺得我們在報告當中也要詳細嘛這是彼此的權利義務啊對不對\n\n03:45.191 --> 04:04.788\n所以呢會後我希望能不能三天之內把這一題你剛剛所說的到底為什麼又會增加那增加的原因是什麼你說有幾台那到底是幾台你說有可能一年那到底是一年還是八個月還是兩年我們要知道找出原因來嘛好那在這個問題我相信一直存在著所以中研院也有想過要去怎麼去解決\n\n04:05.529 --> 04:18.099\n所以我們也定有了一個全院性核心設施使用及管理要點那我們也希望能夠開放各界學術界這個研究單位跟產業的人士可以來預約使用可是我看起來好像也是沒有增加所以副院長我希望把這一個我現在本期的這個問題你一併三天之內的報告要來給我就是說我們也想去解決這個問題\n\n04:30.748 --> 04:53.756\n可是看起來好像也不太好解決那到底是沒有必要去買這麼多貴重的儀器還是說的確這樣的貴重的儀器它就是有專門的使用而且是必要性的所以我們應該要存在那這一些你看看你都不講結果都是我們在看的時候我們去設想是不是可能有這個問題有那個問題但是不可以這樣所以三天之內把這個問題釐清楚報告送上來有沒有問題沒有問題我們會把報告給委員\n\n04:56.417 --> 05:11.185\n好謝謝那您請回那那個主席我們請一下那個河岸會的陳明珍主委好請陳主委對不起再請我們那個國園院的那個高院長好不好好有請國園院高院長\n\n05:13.290 --> 05:30.947\n謝謝張偉我想主委我們看到其實國研院在之前他有表示說2030年國際上可能會有小型的核子反應器就是SMR的相轉所以我看到核研院也提出四年期的SMR大規模的研究計畫透過這個計畫希望能夠趕上國際的腳步\n\n05:35.071 --> 05:51.560\n所以呢也提出這個計畫是要向國科會來爭取每年一億以上的這個經費來投入這個研究那我想先請教一下陳主委就是說你怎麼去看或者你怎麼樣去審核這個這個站在這個核安會立場會不會支持這個計畫然後來協助幫忙爭取這個預算核安會是支持的\n\n05:57.799 --> 06:13.288\n是支持的,所以你認為這個計畫如何?你怎麼看待這樣的一個計畫?這個計畫值得探討,因為在理論上SMR有它的優勢,不管核安方面,在某些\n\n06:15.009 --> 06:31.259\n設計它有比較低的核廢料的產生好所以簡單的來講就是您認為這樣的計畫是很值得我們一來做很值得來支持的嘛對不對好那我想據本期了解國科會其實有持續補助各界對於SMR的一個研究\n\n06:32.139 --> 06:51.057\n那近三年來我們看到補助核安會九件研究計畫總共是841萬2千那也補助了學界進行SMR相關的基礎研究計畫達到五件總共是896萬8千所以三年加起來總共補助了1738萬\n\n06:53.800 --> 07:17.755\n但是我們看到國園院在這一年當中一年他就要去爭取過去三年總和的5.7倍所以主委剛剛是有說有支持當然我們也覺得說也是支持可是我們要來看那據主委您的了解國園院提出這樣是好的計畫可是我們的研究量有沒有辦法支持這個計畫的落實執行有辦法消化掉這麼多預算嗎可以的這點請高院長來回答\n\n07:23.493 --> 07:39.928\n我們提的就是明年開始希望能夠爭取國歌會能夠核准的四年的計畫大概4.8億這樣的一個計畫規模主要是我們希望能夠做一個很系統性的那個院長針對題目好不好我想我本席講得非常清楚\n\n07:40.629 --> 08:06.983\n是告訴你說你現在一年要一億嘛對不對那可是我們看到其實國科會去不管是補助核安會補助其他的學術單位啊總共加起來三年也才補助一千七百多萬也就是說這些單位來申請他們能夠消化能夠去執行的就是一千多萬那你是什麼樣的量能或什麼樣的執行力你可以執行到一年一億你能不能重點講一下國營院現在有一千個員工其中有六百位可以參與\n\n08:08.396 --> 08:10.740\n所以我們這個一年一月的計畫會有600位國務院的員工共同來參與這個計畫100位員工會來執行這個計畫所以我們對於執行這個計畫我們是非常有把握的是嗎\n\n08:24.350 --> 08:42.321\n是我們到時候會提出一個方案好非常有把握嘛人也夠計畫也很好然後又有這個落實實行力我覺得這樣很棒那國務院會近期有送計畫到國科會來申請預算主委您知不知道國科會最後審核核准補助了多少經費現在還在審核之中還在審核之中院長多少\n\n08:51.925 --> 09:11.832\n你指的是我們國歌會剛剛核定的一個718萬718萬左右這個是另外一個我們針對SMR的一個反正我們都是針對SMR嘛其中一個計畫對不對這個標的不一樣這是針對它的爐心的一個模擬那國園院現在總共提出了多少的計畫\n\n09:13.012 --> 09:19.038\n按的這個預算申請今年度就是1543萬另外國科會這個是718萬總共大概2300萬一個700多萬一個1000多萬我們看起來剛剛我們都說支持這個計劃然後這個大家對你們也有信心可是國研院喊出一年要申請到1億然後也有100個人\n\n09:38.155 --> 09:57.001\n可以來執行但是你確實有提出這種700多萬1000多萬的研究計畫而且經過核准現在也不過就是一個718萬下來所以你喊得這麼大聲說我們有1億我們有100個人執行力都沒有問題但本席看到的就是我們現在這一年1億我們好像也沒有提出來\n\n09:57.941 --> 10:24.768\n那所以這是一個口號嗎還是只是一個展示一個決心卻沒有詳細可以執行的計畫內容今年核電的已經總共一個剛剛報告過原子能計畫一千四百一千五百四十三萬加這個大概兩千三百萬那明年開始就是我們會提個一億的這個一億的計畫就是更聚焦除了這原來研究的還要擴充到三種到四種新型的反應器所以它的範圍也擴大投入的人數\n\n10:25.888 --> 10:31.833\n總之就是說我們現在今年是這樣啦反正就是大概兩千多萬啦然後我們後面還有中長期的計畫啦所以呢我覺得啦我們喊了漫天尬想這麼大的一個目標然後呢大家也都支持你看起來也很有把握可是內容計畫現在是空的所以呢我可不可以要求您啦那一樣啦我不敢講再三天啦一個禮拜之內可不可以把這個相關的計畫你送上來讓我們看看你到底啊一年啦齁這個一億\n\n10:53.650 --> 11:02.139\n四年四億多你到底要做什麼那什麼期程要做什麼東西這可以做到嗎我們已經完成計畫書的兩百頁以上的送到我希望詳細的計畫就送上來包括剛剛我們所提到的為什麼現在的預算數跟我們的計畫差這麼多\n\n11:11.809 --> 11:25.877\n那最後一分鐘我想就本席知道我們學界對於這個SMR的研究的歷史很久遠那包括清華大學從民國61年我們就開始開發車載型的小型反應爐那一直到不管是運轉後來實驗沒有再繼續到後來89年廚藝拆解我覺得其實\n\n11:30.740 --> 11:52.518\n都會有點可惜因為花這麼多的時間人力下去所以呢基於國科會跟學界的相關研究基礎我想也建議啦也看國研院你是不是應該後續也要找學界或者是清華大學再重新來合作共同來推動我們SMR的研究的一個進度這樣也可以避免各方過去研究成果的浪費那個院長覺得呢\n\n11:53.419 --> 12:19.230\n我先回答這部分呢國研院跟清華大學是有合作項目的他們是會密切合作鄉協議請高院長再補充一下是剛剛提到明年開始的四年計畫第一年一千萬我們最少會跟清華大學合作五百到一千萬這種合作項目培育人才做研究已經跟他們的原科院還有幾位教授都已經有初步做一個溝通\n\n12:21.727 --> 12:35.103\n我想今天都是把这个重点来做一些提醒那我希望除了原有给我们的资料之外能够针对今天本席质询的地方不足的部分一个礼拜再把资讯送到我们办公室来好吗好的谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.428,"end":31.07,"text":"好 谢谢赵伟首先先帮我请周美莹副院长好 有请中研院周副院长好 委员好好 副院长这一次我们中研院总共有五个书面报告还有一个专案报告在等一下的解读案当中那院长稍早我知道他有过来那也有把这个口头报告做了一个说明那副院长您自己本人有把所有的报告内容都看过了吗"},{"start":33.038,"end":57.091,"text":"應該大致看過 大致一百多頁翻過一遍 全部看過所以內容你都知道當然背不下來 可是內容知道大概知道 好 我想是應該要比較詳細了解會比較好那去年我們看到在審查中研院預算的時候尤其是有很多位委員我們都有提出來就是中研院貴重儀器使用率低下的一個問題我相信副院長還記得"},{"start":58.172,"end":62.354,"text":"那中研院在解凍報告當中本席有看到111年跟112年的使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比那比這個110年已經改善許多了我們看到數據就是111年是7.56%然後112年是7.75%相較於110年的14.41%有進步可是呢"},{"start":82.225,"end":89.708,"text":"我們這個報告內容其實卻沒有提到113年貴重儀器的使用狀況那第一個呢您是因為這個報告只有針對當時我們在審查預算的時候的問題提出來但是呢現狀卻沒有提是因為這樣的原因嗎那個報告現狀因為這個"},{"start":103.792,"end":121.638,"text":"就是說我們的報告看寫到哪一個部分因為這個地方是寫到哪一個部分就是同一件事情所以副院長我想因為可能你沒有想到說今天那個院長沒有辦法留下來但是你就是應該要做好準備那我們看到這也是本席辦公室跟你們鄉家詢問才知道113年我們又來到了11.1%所以也就是說"},{"start":127.74,"end":155.47,"text":"我們沒有去統計113年的數字可是看起來這113年我們這貴重儀器使用的狀況是更不好了耶所以呢 什麼原因不放是因為這個數字難看嘛那實際上我們在113年使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比升高到這麼多那我看起來我們也每年都有編列這個貴重儀器的養護經費嘛所以報告沒有提那我想在這裡請教一下這個副院長我們要怎麼樣改善這個具體的應用措施是什麼"},{"start":156.25,"end":175.096,"text":"謝謝委員的關心因為我們書面報告是在去年委員會審查完以後我們就開始準備的所以那個時候那時候就準備好了為什麼到現在才來提說要解凍沒有現在解凍是因為後來不是整個公佈然後我們還要經過一些"},{"start":175.436,"end":199.637,"text":"對 你的意思是說早就準備好所以來不及更新新的狀況是這樣嗎這個東西我可以跟委員解釋為什麼11%如果說我們11%其實是9台我們回去有仔細看過這裡面所謂的使用率天低因為這幾台裡頭大概有4、5台都是在一年內剛剛新構置的所以有很多調整那個這樣子啦 副院長我覺得你應該要再給我們一個詳細的報告"},{"start":203.3,"end":222.17,"text":"妳要給我一個詳細的報告因為我沒有時間在這裡啊跟妳詢問說那有幾台那到底是多久妳不能在這裡就是說打一個大概今天其實談到預算每一筆錢都非常的重要每一筆預算經費我們都要詳實我們支持中研院的這個我們支持中研院的預算但是呢我覺得我們在報告當中也要詳細嘛這是彼此的權利義務啊對不對"},{"start":225.191,"end":244.788,"text":"所以呢會後我希望能不能三天之內把這一題你剛剛所說的到底為什麼又會增加那增加的原因是什麼你說有幾台那到底是幾台你說有可能一年那到底是一年還是八個月還是兩年我們要知道找出原因來嘛好那在這個問題我相信一直存在著所以中研院也有想過要去怎麼去解決"},{"start":245.529,"end":258.099,"text":"所以我們也定有了一個全院性核心設施使用及管理要點那我們也希望能夠開放各界學術界這個研究單位跟產業的人士可以來預約使用可是我看起來好像也是沒有增加所以副院長我希望把這一個我現在本期的這個問題你一併三天之內的報告要來給我就是說我們也想去解決這個問題"},{"start":270.748,"end":293.756,"text":"可是看起來好像也不太好解決那到底是沒有必要去買這麼多貴重的儀器還是說的確這樣的貴重的儀器它就是有專門的使用而且是必要性的所以我們應該要存在那這一些你看看你都不講結果都是我們在看的時候我們去設想是不是可能有這個問題有那個問題但是不可以這樣所以三天之內把這個問題釐清楚報告送上來有沒有問題沒有問題我們會把報告給委員"},{"start":296.417,"end":311.185,"text":"好 謝謝 那您請回 那那個主席我們請一下那個河岸會的陳明珍主委好 請陳主委對不起 再請我們那個國園院的那個高院長好不好好 有請國園院高院長"},{"start":313.29,"end":330.947,"text":"謝謝張偉我想主委我們看到其實國研院在之前他有表示說2030年國際上可能會有小型的核子反應器就是SMR的相轉所以我看到核研院也提出四年期的SMR大規模的研究計畫透過這個計畫希望能夠趕上國際的腳步"},{"start":335.071,"end":351.56,"text":"所以呢也提出這個計畫是要向國科會來爭取每年一億以上的這個經費來投入這個研究那我想先請教一下陳主委就是說你怎麼去看或者你怎麼樣去審核這個這個站在這個核安會立場會不會支持這個計畫然後來協助幫忙爭取這個預算核安會是支持的"},{"start":357.799,"end":373.288,"text":"是支持的,所以你認為這個計畫如何?你怎麼看待這樣的一個計畫?這個計畫值得探討,因為在理論上SMR有它的優勢,不管核安方面,在某些"},{"start":375.009,"end":391.259,"text":"設計它有比較低的核廢料的產生好 所以簡單的來講就是您認為這樣的計畫是很值得我們一來做很值得來支持的嘛 對不對好 那我想據本期了解國科會其實有持續補助各界對於SMR的一個研究"},{"start":392.139,"end":411.057,"text":"那近三年來我們看到補助核安會九件研究計畫總共是841萬2千那也補助了學界進行SMR相關的基礎研究計畫達到五件總共是896萬8千所以三年加起來總共補助了1738萬"},{"start":413.8,"end":437.755,"text":"但是我們看到國園院在這一年當中一年他就要去爭取過去三年總和的5.7倍所以主委剛剛是有說有支持當然我們也覺得說也是支持可是我們要來看那據主委您的了解國園院提出這樣是好的計畫可是我們的研究量有沒有辦法支持這個計畫的落實執行有辦法消化掉這麼多預算嗎可以的 這點請高院長來回答"},{"start":443.493,"end":459.928,"text":"我們提的就是明年開始希望能夠爭取國歌會能夠核准的四年的計畫大概4.8億這樣的一個計畫規模主要是我們希望能夠做一個很系統性的那個院長針對題目好不好我想我本席講得非常清楚"},{"start":460.629,"end":486.983,"text":"是告訴你說你現在一年要一億嘛對不對那可是我們看到其實國科會去不管是補助核安會補助其他的學術單位啊總共加起來三年也才補助一千七百多萬也就是說這些單位來申請他們能夠消化能夠去執行的就是一千多萬那你是什麼樣的量能或什麼樣的執行力你可以執行到一年一億你能不能重點講一下國營院現在有一千個員工其中有六百位可以參與"},{"start":488.396,"end":490.74,"text":"所以我們這個一年一月的計畫會有600位國務院的員工共同來參與這個計畫100位員工會來執行這個計畫所以我們對於執行這個計畫我們是非常有把握的是嗎"},{"start":504.35,"end":522.321,"text":"是 我們到時候會提出一個方案好 非常有把握嘛 人也夠 計畫也很好然後又有這個落實實行力 我覺得這樣很棒那國務院會近期有送計畫到國科會來申請預算主委 您知不知道國科會最後審核核准補助了多少經費現在還在審核之中還在審核之中 院長 多少"},{"start":531.925,"end":551.832,"text":"你指的是我們國歌會剛剛核定的一個718萬718萬左右這個是另外一個我們針對SMR的一個反正我們都是針對SMR嘛其中一個計畫對不對這個標的不一樣這是針對它的爐心的一個模擬那國園院現在總共提出了多少的計畫"},{"start":553.012,"end":559.038,"text":"按的這個預算申請今年度就是1543萬另外國科會這個是718萬總共大概2300萬一個700多萬一個1000多萬我們看起來剛剛我們都說支持這個計劃然後這個大家對你們也有信心可是國研院喊出一年要申請到1億然後也有100個人"},{"start":578.155,"end":597.001,"text":"可以來執行但是你確實有提出這種700多萬1000多萬的研究計畫而且經過核准現在也不過就是一個718萬下來所以你喊得這麼大聲說我們有1億我們有100個人執行力都沒有問題但本席看到的就是我們現在這一年1億我們好像也沒有提出來"},{"start":597.941,"end":624.768,"text":"那所以這是一個口號嗎還是只是一個展示一個決心卻沒有詳細可以執行的計畫內容今年核電的已經總共一個剛剛報告過原子能計畫一千四百一千五百四十三萬加這個大概兩千三百萬那明年開始就是我們會提個一億的這個一億的計畫就是更聚焦除了這原來研究的還要擴充到三種到四種新型的反應器所以它的範圍也擴大投入的人數"},{"start":625.888,"end":631.833,"text":"總之就是說 我們現在今年是這樣啦反正就是大概兩千多萬啦然後我們後面還有中長期的計畫啦所以呢 我覺得啦我們喊了漫天尬想這麼大的一個目標然後呢 大家也都支持你看起來也很有把握可是內容計畫現在是空的所以呢 我可不可以要求您啦那一樣啦 我不敢講再三天啦一個禮拜之內可不可以把這個相關的計畫你送上來讓我們看看你到底啊一年啦齁 這個一億"},{"start":653.65,"end":662.139,"text":"四年四億多你到底要做什麼那什麼期程要做什麼東西這可以做到嗎我們已經完成計畫書的兩百頁以上的送到我希望詳細的計畫就送上來包括剛剛我們所提到的為什麼現在的預算數跟我們的計畫差這麼多"},{"start":671.809,"end":685.877,"text":"那最後一分鐘我想就本席知道我們學界對於這個SMR的研究的歷史很久遠那包括清華大學從民國61年我們就開始開發車載型的小型反應爐那一直到不管是運轉後來實驗沒有再繼續到後來89年廚藝拆解我覺得其實"},{"start":690.74,"end":712.518,"text":"都會有點可惜因為花這麼多的時間人力下去所以呢基於國科會跟學界的相關研究基礎我想也建議啦也看國研院你是不是應該後續也要找學界或者是清華大學再重新來合作共同來推動我們SMR的研究的一個進度這樣也可以避免各方過去研究成果的浪費那個院長覺得呢"},{"start":713.419,"end":739.23,"text":"我先回答 這部分呢 國研院跟清華大學是有合作項目的他們是會密切合作 鄉協議請高院長再補充一下是 剛剛提到明年開始的四年計畫第一年一千萬我們最少會跟清華大學合作五百到一千萬這種合作項目培育人才 做研究 已經跟他們的原科院還有幾位教授都已經有初步做一個溝通"},{"start":741.727,"end":755.103,"text":"我想今天都是把这个重点来做一些提醒那我希望除了原有给我们的资料之外能够针对今天本席质询的地方不足的部分一个礼拜再把资讯送到我们办公室来好吗好的谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":857,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（11時42分）謝謝召委，首先先請周美吟副院長。"],["主席：有請中研院周副院長。"],["周副院長美吟：委員好。"],["萬委員美玲：副院長，這一次中研院總共有5個書面報告及1個專案報告在等一下的解凍案當中，我知道院長稍早有過來，也有口頭報告做了一個說明，副院長，您本人有把所有的報告內容都看過了嗎？"],["周副院長美吟：應該大致看過。"],["萬委員美玲：大致？"],["周副院長美吟：有一百多頁，我翻過一遍，全部看過。"],["萬委員美玲：所以內容你都知道？"],["周副院長美吟：當然背不下來，可是內容知道。"],["萬委員美玲：大概知道，好，我想應該要詳細瞭解會比較好啦！去年在審查中研院預算的時候，我們看到有很多位委員都有提出來，就是中研院貴重儀器使用率低下的問題，我相信副院長還記得。中研院在解凍的報告當中，本席有看到，111年跟112年使用率低於20%的貴重儀器占比，比110年已經改善許多了，我們看到的數據是，111年是7.56%，112年是7.75%，相較於110年的14.41%是有進步，可是這個報告內容卻沒有提到113年貴重儀器的使用狀況，第一個，這個報告只針對審查預算時的問題說明，但現狀卻沒有提到，是因為這樣的原因嗎？"],["周副院長美吟：我們的報告是看寫到哪一個部分，因為這個地方是說……"],["萬委員美玲：寫到哪一個部分？就是同一件事情啊！副院長，可能您沒有想到今天院長沒辦法留下來，但您本來就應該做好準備嘛！這也是本席辦公室向你們詳加詢問後才知道的，113年的占比又來到11.1%。你們沒有統計113年的數字，可是看起來，113年貴重儀器使用的狀況更不好了，所以是因為什麼原因不放？就是因為數字難看嘛！實際上就是113年使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器，占比升高這麼多，但是每年都有編列貴重儀器的養護經費。因為報告中沒有提到，所以本席想請教一下副院長要怎麼改善？具體的應用措施是什麼？"],["周副院長美吟：謝謝委員的關心。因為我們的書面報告是在去年委員會審查完以後就開始準備，那個時候113年……"],["萬委員美玲：那時候就準備好了，為什麼現在才來提解凍？"],["周副院長美吟：現在提解凍是因為後來不是整個公布，而且我們還要經過一些詳細的查核。"],["萬委員美玲：所以你的意思是早就準備好了，只是來不及更新成最新的狀況，是這樣嗎？"],["周副院長美吟：這個部分我可以向委員解釋，為什麼是11%？這11%其實包含9台，我們回去之後有仔細看過，所謂的使用率偏低，是因為大概有四、五台都是一年內新購置的，還要做很多調整，所以沒有辦法正式服務，都是有原因的。"],["萬委員美玲：副院長，我覺得你們應該要再給我們一份詳細的報告。"],["周副院長美吟：對，我們會給委員一份詳細的報告。"],["萬委員美玲：你要給我一份詳細的報告，因為我沒有時間在這裡詢問有幾台？到底是多久？你不能在這裡答復一個大概的狀況。"],["周副院長美吟：我們會給委員一份詳細的報告。"],["萬委員美玲：今天談到預算，因為每一筆錢都非常重要，所以每一筆預算、經費都要翔實。我們支持中研院的預算，但是報告也要詳盡，這是彼此的權利、義務，對不對？所以會後，我希望三天之內把你剛剛說的，為什麼又增加？增加的原因是什麼？你說有幾台是新購置的，到底是幾台？你說有可能是一年內，到底是一年還是八個月，還是兩年？這些我們都要知道原因。","我相信這個問題一直存在，中研院也想過要怎麼解決，所以也訂定全院性核心設施使用及管理要點，我們也希望能夠開放，讓學術界、研究單位和產業界人士可以預約使用，可是就我看起來，好像也沒有增加啦！所以副院長，本席提出的這個問題，請你們一併在三天之內提供報告給我，雖然你們也想解決這個問題，可是看起來好像不太好解決。","到底是沒有必要買這麼多貴重的儀器還是這樣貴重的儀器是提供專業使用，而且有其必要性，所以應該存在？這些問題你們都沒有說明，都是我們在看報告的時候，自己設想是不是可能有這個問題、有那個問題，但是不可以這樣，三天之內把這個問題釐清清楚，把報告送上來，有沒有問題？"],["周副院長美吟：沒有問題，我們會送報告給委員。"],["萬委員美玲：好，謝謝，您請回。"],["周副院長美吟：謝謝。"],["萬委員美玲：主席，請一下核安會的陳明真主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["萬委員美玲：對不起，再請國原院高院長，好不好？"],["主席：請國原院高院長。"],["萬委員美玲：謝謝召委。主委，其實國原院之前有表示，2030年國際上可能會有小型的核子反應器商轉，就是SMR的商轉，所以國原院也提出四年期的SMR大規模研究計畫，希望透過這個計畫能夠趕上國際的腳步，並且向國科會爭取每年1億元以上的經費投入研究。本席想先請教一下陳主委，你們怎麼看或者怎麼審核？站在核安會的立場，會不會支持這個計畫或者協助幫忙爭取這筆預算？"],["陳主任委員明真：核安會是支持的。"],["萬委員美玲：所以你認為這個計畫如何？你怎麼看待這樣的計畫？"],["陳主任委員明真：這個計畫值得探討，因為在理論上，SMR有它的優勢，包括核安方面，在某些設計上，它有比較低的核廢料產生。"],["萬委員美玲：所以簡單來講，您認為這樣的計畫很值得我們來做，是很值得支持的，對不對？好。據本席了解，國科會其實有持續補助各界對於SMR的研究，近三年來補助核安會9件研究計畫，總共是841萬2,000元。也補助學界進行SMR相關的基礎研究計畫，有5件，總共是896萬8,000元，三年加起來總共補助1,738萬。","但是我們看到，國原院在這一年當中就要爭取過去三年總和的5.7倍，主委剛剛是說支持，當然我們也是支持的，可是據主委的了解，雖然國原院提出的這個計畫是好的計畫，可是我們的研究量能有沒有辦法支持這個計畫落實執行？有辦法消化這麼多預算嗎？"],["陳主任委員明真：可以的，這點請高院長回答。"],["萬委員美玲：好。"],["高院長梓木：我們提出的，就是從明年開始希望能夠爭取國科會核准四年期計畫，大概是4.8億，之所以提出這樣的計畫規模，主要是我們希望能夠做一個系統性的整合，所以……"],["萬委員美玲：院長，請你針對題目回答，好不好？本席說得非常清楚，你們現在是一年要1億嘛！對不對？可是我們看到，其實國科會不管是補助核安會或補助其他學術單位，全部加起來，三年也才補助一千七百多萬。也就是說，這些單位來申請經費，他們能夠消化、執行的就是一千多萬。你們有什麼樣的量能或執行力可以一年執行1億？你能不能針對重點說明一下？"],["高院長梓木：國原院現在有1,000名員工，其中600位可以參與，所以參與……"],["萬委員美玲：所以這個一年1億元的計畫，會有600位國原院的員工共同參與？"],["高院長梓木：都有參與。其中核心的部分，有100位員工會執行這個計畫。"],["萬委員美玲：100位員工會執行這個計畫？"],["高院長梓木：是。"],["萬委員美玲：好。所以你們對於執行這個計畫非常有把握，是嗎？"],["高院長梓木：是，到時候我們會提出一個關於……"],["萬委員美玲：好，你們非常有把握嘛！人員夠，計畫也很好，又有落實執行的能力，本席覺得這樣很棒。國原會近期有送計畫到國科會申請預算，主委，您知不知道國科會最後核准補助多少經費？"],["陳主任委員明真：現在還在審核之中。"],["萬委員美玲：還在審核之中？院長，多少？"],["高院長梓木：委員，您指的是國科會剛剛核定的718萬這一筆經費嗎？"],["萬委員美玲：718萬左右？"],["高院長梓木：是，這是另外一個計畫，我們針對SMR的反應器……"],["萬委員美玲：反正都是針對SMR嘛！這是其中一個計畫，對不對？"],["高院長梓木：但是這個標的不一樣，這是針對它的爐心模擬，還有一個……"],["萬委員美玲：國原院現在總共提出多少計畫案？"],["高院長梓木：今年度就是1,543萬，是原子能的計畫。另外，國科會的部分是718萬，就是這兩個計畫，總共大概是2,300萬。"],["萬委員美玲：好，一個是七百多萬元，一個是一千多萬元。剛剛我們都說支持這個計畫嘛！大家對你們也有信心，可是國原院喊出一年要申請1億，也有100個人可以執行，但是你們卻只提出七百多萬、一千多萬的研究計畫，而且現在才核准718萬。所以你們喊得這麼大聲，說我們有1億的計畫，我們有100個人的執行力，但本席看到的是，這個一年1億的計畫，你們好像沒有提出來啊！所以這是一個口號嗎？或者只是展示決心，卻沒有詳細、可執行的計畫內容？"],["高院長梓木：今年已經有一個計畫核定，剛剛報告過，就是原子能計畫1,543萬，加這個計畫大概是2,300萬。明年開始，我們會提一個1億的計畫，這個計畫會更聚焦，除了原來研究的，還要擴充三種到四種新型的反應器，它的範圍會擴大，投入的人數也會增加。"],["萬委員美玲：好啦！總之今年就是這樣啦！大概二千多萬，後面還有中長期的計畫。但我覺得，你們喊得震天價響這麼大的目標，大家也都支持，你們看起來也很有把握，可是現在計畫內容卻是空的。所以我可不可以要求您，也是一樣，我不敢說三天啦！一個禮拜之內可不可以把相關計畫送來？讓我們看看這個一年1億、四年四億多的計畫，你們到底要做什麼？什麼期程要做到什麼？可以做到嗎？"],["高院長梓木：我們已經完成200頁以上的計畫書，並且送到國科會。"],["萬委員美玲：本席希望你們把詳細的計畫送來。"],["高院長梓木：好的。"],["萬委員美玲：包括剛剛我們提到的，為什麼現在的預算數和計畫差這麼多？最後1分鐘，本席知道學界對於SMR的研究歷史很久遠，包括清華大學從民國61年就開始開發車載型的小型反應爐，不管是首次臨界運轉，或是後來實驗沒有再繼續，或是89年除役拆解，我覺得有點可惜，因為我們花了這麼多時間、人力。","所以基於國科會和學界的相關研究基礎，本席也建議啦！當然也要看國原院的意思，後續你們是不是也應該要找學界或者清華大學重新合作，共同推動SMR研究的進度，這樣也可以避免各方過去的研究成果浪費，院長覺得呢？"],["陳主任委員明真：我先回答，這部分國原院和清華大學有合作項目，他們會密切合作，詳細內容請高院長再補充一下。"],["高院長梓木：是，剛剛提到明年開始的四年計畫，第一年1,000萬，我們最少會和清華大學進行500萬到1,000萬的合作項目，包括培育人才、做研究，已經和他們的原科院及幾位教授初步做過溝通。"],["萬委員美玲：好，今天都是針對重點做一些提醒，本席希望除了原本給我們的資料之外，針對今天本席質詢的地方，就是不足的部分，一個禮拜內把資資料料送到我們辦公室，好嗎？謝謝。"],["高院長梓木：好的，謝謝委員。"],["陳主任委員明真：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝萬美玲委員，主委請回。"],["主席（陳委員秀寳代）：接下來請林宜瑾召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":452,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-12","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","謝龍介","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葉元之","吳沛憶","鍾佳濱","萬美玲","范雲","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","林沛祥"],"page_start":381,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案6案；二、處理\n114年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算（公務預算）解凍案9案；三、處理114年\n度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院單位預算解凍案1案","agenda_id":"1145101_00009"}}}