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\"start\": 663.198, \"end\": 663.979, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 663.979, \"end\": 664.479, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 664.479, \"end\": 664.76, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 664.76, \"end\": 664.94, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 664.94, \"end\": 666.141, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 666.141, \"end\": 666.641, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 666.641, \"end\": 666.661, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 666.661, \"end\": 666.822, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 666.822, \"end\": 667.002, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"玉\", \"start\": 667.002, \"end\": 667.482, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"珍\", \"start\": 667.482, \"end\": 667.642, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 667.642, \"end\": 668.023, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 668.023, \"end\": 668.183, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 668.183, \"end\": 668.363, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 668.363, \"end\": 668.383, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 668.383, \"end\": 668.523, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 668.523, \"end\": 668.543, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"莊\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 668.543, \"end\": 668.603, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 668.603, \"end\": 668.763, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 668.763, \"end\": 669.824, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 669.824, \"end\": 670.065, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 670.065, \"end\": 670.205, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 670.205, \"end\": 670.245, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"莊\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 670.245, \"end\": 670.365, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 670.365, \"end\": 670.525, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 670.525, \"end\": 670.645, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 670.645, \"end\": 670.665, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,370 --> 00:00:01,073\n莊部長袁副總裁\n\n2\n00:00:08,737 --> 00:00:30,814\n我也好部長好副總裁好我想昨天很重要的是520賴清德總統在就職的週年演說宣示台灣要成立所謂的主權基金打造國家級的投資平台在這邊我就不禁要說了部長還有副總裁台灣民眾黨的版本在去年3月就已經送到立法院\n\n3\n00:00:31,835 --> 00:00:52,068\n但是我們在這中間過程中包括立法院的專案報告跟央行給我們的回覆以及財政部的說明都說目前沒有必要而且突然間又突然有必要了是嗎所以部長我想問一下財政部有沒有接到行政院指示準備參與主權基金還有它成立的時程\n\n4\n00:00:54,031 --> 00:01:20,498\n這個部分呢行政院後續應該會再召開所以沒有參與前面的討論邀同相關部會一起來做開會討論副總裁我們的版本是在央行底下成立啦我知道總裁一直很不希望在央行來主管他說給錢沒問題啦要你們管有問題請問原副總裁央行有沒有參與總統有關主學基金成立的相關討論還有目前你們的時程是什麼\n\n5\n00:01:21,804 --> 00:01:49,138\n報告委員因為長期以來我們都會把我們對這一塊議題的報告送成你們的立場一直就是外匯存體可以借你們用但是我要收利息啦是吧我們的原則是不能夠無償使用不能無償使用就是你們可以拿出來第二個你們不願意當主管機關對吧對部長那中央有跟你討論過由財政部來扛下主責機關政策的大旗嗎\n\n6\n00:01:50,912 --> 00:02:16,374\n目前并没有做这样的讨论在主权基金全世界都是大部分至少我们知道最熟悉的新加坡是财政部主导接下去台湾会怎么样可能也是上一次央行有提出专案报告给财委会的书面报告有三种形式第一个反正财政部发债第二个部分是财政部拨款\n\n7\n00:02:17,093 --> 00:02:18,354\n所以這三個方法都是財政部財政部有沒有意見\n\n8\n00:02:36,769 --> 00:03:02,775\n跟委員報告各國的財政部的執掌內容並不相同這是一個那第二個對於有關財源來自於哪裡這是央行在報告裡面所以央行的報告也沒跟你討論是只講說財源來自哪裡好所以重點是我覺得主權基金是件好事這是上一屆吳欣穎委員代表台灣民眾黨在立法院不斷的\n\n9\n00:03:05,473 --> 00:03:28,694\n倡議而且正式的修法最重要的是我們在總統大選的時候也成為台灣民眾黨的政見那去年3月我們就已經提案在央行在財政部我們都希望能夠進行討論但是很遺憾行政院一直沒有理會直到昨天看到總統突然間冒出來今天再問到兩位好像你們也沒參與所以整個過程我認為啦\n\n10\n00:03:30,134 --> 00:03:53,187\n可能又變成是一個突發奇想或者是就像國軍軍人突然間要說恢復軍事審判到今天還是沒有任何下文我不希望它又是一個突然間曇花一現的構想我希望兩位對於台灣的主權基金應該現在就應該有進一步的想法甚至要積極的參與\n\n11\n00:03:55,368 --> 00:04:22,696\n對於立法院還有總統都已經這樣說的重要政策我們不應該像兩位現在的狀況什麼都不知道可以嗎你們可以告訴我在一個月之內可以給我一個初步的時程表嗎或者是簡單的說美國川普總統二月份簽署了一個行政命令說要成立美國主權基金三個月五月的時候白宮發言人已經表示財政部跟商務部已經擬定了設立計畫\n\n12\n00:04:26,112 --> 00:04:44,292\n只花三個月然後新加坡當時成立主權基金花了八個月我現在不知道我們的總統520宣布之後你們要花幾個月所以部長在我下一次在這邊質詢的時候可能我就會問你相關的時程啦你現在都不知道嗎還不知道\n\n13\n00:04:47,011 --> 00:05:10,454\n跟委員說明了這個部分行政院會要同國發會央行以及各財主單位一起來做研議規劃好副總裁剛剛講的卓文泰院長在日前接受專訪的時候也說了他說到底誰來出資啊有心有所屬對方不一定滿意會再慢慢協調所以這個對方是不是指央行\n\n14\n00:05:13,090 --> 00:05:24,634\n報告委員我不知道他的行為是怎樣他心有所屬劣跡啦但是你好像不滿意啦所以他要再跟你慢慢協調啦所以院長有來跟你們商量了嗎還沒\n\n15\n00:05:26,508 --> 00:05:42,367\n報告委員我剛才講過我們長期以來我們對這個議題我們都有提供我們的長端去參考好接下去的問題其實今天財政部在這邊我們要強調的是不管主權基金它的目的是什麼都要益處重要的財源對吧\n\n16\n00:05:44,742 --> 00:06:12,434\n這個方向應該沒有錯吧當然財源來自於哪裡是可以討論的所以像在新加坡的主權基金它的收入2025年新加坡的財政總收入是1499億新幣但是就有271億來自國家儲備的投資回報也就是相關的主權基金也就是政府的稅收來源裡面每五塊錢就有一塊錢是來自於主權基金這其實是一個穩健的財源\n\n17\n00:06:13,775 --> 00:06:33,352\n第二個他的對GDP的貢獻也非常的高加上新加坡政府在他們國內有足夠的財源至少在剛剛講的居住正義上面有相當多的資源可以做公共住宅社會住宅最重要的是94%他都可以\n\n18\n00:06:34,213 --> 00:06:58,366\n建設所謂的社會住宅出租給民眾讓民眾不會有房屋的問題所以我們希望的是財源進來之後要怎麼用這才是重點增加了錢很好但錢像現在國發基金也有其他也有台商公司也有但它沒有辦法完整的挹注到政府的財源的話其實都是白搭\n\n19\n00:06:59,326 --> 00:07:26,119\n主權基金不應該是那個樣子國發基金是要去扶植我們國內的企業但主權基金是要幫政府增加財源所以這個部分包括央行當時我有回報是說央行不需要啊央行外匯存體都有委託操作啊所以央行的獲益很穩定但是央行的獲益副總裁你們每年大概的利息收到多少你們委外操作賺到的錢有多少\n\n20\n00:07:30,492 --> 00:07:51,432\n每年投資報酬率高不高?介於2.2到3之間所以您滿意嗎?您覺得滿意嗎?國外操作收益率3.53最高自行經營的收益率大概最高2.66這在跟主權基金比起來,你覺得你們這樣子的操作\n\n21\n00:07:52,912 --> 00:08:12,698\n那個報委這兩個性質是不一樣所以主權基金操作應該要更好是但是就是不是央行來做我覺得這個國家就是希望這個政策下來各單位應該是有志一同大家一起努力如果這個方向還是你做你的我做我的就不會做好\n\n22\n00:08:13,118 --> 00:08:42,501\n那個報告委員我們一直主張有一個專責機構來負責這個操作是所以就是大家要去找出一個共同性嘛不應該還是這樣你推我我推你最後就是在去年我們超徵的時候其實我在這裡也有跟部長說過超徵之後的錢要怎麼用大家都有想法我們主張有兩個第一個該還債有閒第二個其實每年超徵三四千億真的可以成立土權基金啊\n\n23\n00:08:43,533 --> 00:09:08,361\n成立主權基金再去賺更多的錢而不是平白無故的不管是用到哪裡去把它花光光今年大家在審特別條例感覺就是要把稅基剩餘還有去年的超徵金額全部用完我覺得不是好事主權基金是將來超徵的財源之一而且它應該長期穩定每一年政府\n\n24\n00:09:09,281 --> 00:09:22,831\n施政經濟的成果應該是全民共享而不是單純的發錢或者是去做其他的東西而是應該拿來在益助政府可以賺更多的錢來做更多的建設對吧\n\n25\n00:09:24,372 --> 00:09:45,622\n所以兩位今天我希望昨天聽完很興奮今天看到你們兩位的回答我又很沮喪所以我希望主權基金應該有個具體的時程我希望一個月之內有一個大概有的方向否則我們在這邊又是恐歡喜一場部長你可以做到一個月之內告訴我你們規劃或者是跟央行之間協調的過程嗎\n\n26\n00:09:48,052 --> 00:10:13,806\n委員這個部分行政院會要從相關部會來會商是但是兩位如果我們在財政委員會站在這裡還得到這樣的答案我覺得是蠻一笑大方的為什麼因為總統昨天講話今天兩位最重要的官員完全不知道立法委員也問不到東西這不是一個民主國家該有的方式\n\n27\n00:10:15,180 --> 00:10:29,066\n變成總統也是黑箱然後到立法院來沒有人可以回答我們的問題這不是一個懂得溝通的政府或者是你們行政事務官有積極參與決策的政府這樣的狀況會讓人民沒有信心\n\n28\n00:10:33,368 --> 00:11:01,469\n好嗎我希望一個月之內我會再問兩位最後就是我們還是希望啦主權基金有三個原則第一個一定要有專業的經營團隊第二個要明確的投資策略還有風險控管第三個要有明確的法源依據還有公開透明就是我們希望兩位在將來行政院討論有關主權基金的時候這幾個原則一定要納入所有相關的內容可以嗎\n\n29\n00:11:02,998 --> 00:11:10,665\n我們的意見會納入好謝謝好謝謝黃委員的質詢下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢請謝謝主席有請財政部莊部長還有負稅署財政部莊部長負稅署署長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n370\t1073\t莊部長 袁副總裁\n8737\t30814\t我也好部長好副總裁好我想昨天很重要的是520賴清德總統在就職的週年演說宣示台灣要成立所謂的主權基金打造國家級的投資平台在這邊我就不禁要說了部長還有副總裁台灣民眾黨的版本在去年3月就已經送到立法院\n31835\t52068\t但是我們在這中間過程中包括立法院的專案報告跟央行給我們的回覆以及財政部的說明都說目前沒有必要而且突然間又突然有必要了是嗎所以部長我想問一下財政部有沒有接到行政院指示準備參與主權基金還有它成立的時程\n54031\t80498\t這個部分呢 行政院後續應該會再召開所以沒有參與前面的討論邀同相關部會一起來做開會討論副總裁 我們的版本是在央行底下成立啦我知道總裁一直很不希望在央行來主管他說給錢沒問題啦 要你們管有問題請問 原副總裁 央行有沒有參與總統有關主學基金成立的相關討論還有目前你們的時程是什麼\n81804\t109138\t報告委員因為長期以來我們都會把我們對這一塊議題的報告送成你們的立場一直就是外匯存體可以借你們用但是我要收利息啦是吧我們的原則是不能夠無償使用不能無償使用就是你們可以拿出來第二個你們不願意當主管機關對吧對部長那中央有跟你討論過由財政部來扛下主責機關政策的大旗嗎\n110912\t136374\t目前并没有做这样的讨论在主权基金全世界都是大部分至少我们知道最熟悉的新加坡是财政部主导接下去台湾会怎么样可能也是上一次央行有提出专案报告给财委会的书面报告有三种形式第一个反正财政部发债第二个部分是财政部拨款\n137093\t138354\t所以這三個方法都是財政部財政部有沒有意見\n156769\t182775\t跟委員報告各國的財政部的執掌內容並不相同這是一個那第二個對於有關財源來自於哪裡這是央行在報告裡面所以央行的報告也沒跟你討論是只講說財源來自哪裡好所以重點是我覺得主權基金是件好事這是上一屆吳欣穎委員代表台灣民眾黨在立法院不斷的\n185473\t208694\t倡議而且正式的修法最重要的是我們在總統大選的時候也成為台灣民眾黨的政見那去年3月我們就已經提案在央行在財政部我們都希望能夠進行討論但是很遺憾行政院一直沒有理會直到昨天看到總統突然間冒出來今天再問到兩位好像你們也沒參與所以整個過程我認為啦\n210134\t233187\t可能又變成是一個突發奇想或者是就像國軍軍人突然間要說恢復軍事審判到今天還是沒有任何下文我不希望它又是一個突然間曇花一現的構想我希望兩位對於台灣的主權基金應該現在就應該有進一步的想法甚至要積極的參與\n235368\t262696\t對於立法院還有總統都已經這樣說的重要政策我們不應該像兩位現在的狀況什麼都不知道可以嗎你們可以告訴我在一個月之內可以給我一個初步的時程表嗎或者是簡單的說美國川普總統二月份簽署了一個行政命令說要成立美國主權基金三個月五月的時候白宮發言人已經表示財政部跟商務部已經擬定了設立計畫\n266112\t284292\t只花三個月然後新加坡當時成立主權基金花了八個月我現在不知道我們的總統520宣布之後你們要花幾個月所以部長在我下一次在這邊質詢的時候可能我就會問你相關的時程啦你現在都不知道嗎還不知道\n287011\t310454\t跟委員說明了這個部分行政院會要同國發會央行以及各財主單位一起來做研議規劃好 副總裁剛剛講的卓文泰院長在日前接受專訪的時候也說了他說到底誰來出資啊有心有所屬對方不一定滿意會再慢慢協調所以這個對方是不是指央行\n313090\t324634\t報告委員 我不知道他的行為是怎樣他心有所屬 劣跡啦但是你好像不滿意啦 所以他要再跟你慢慢協調啦所以院長有來跟你們商量了嗎 還沒\n326508\t342367\t報告委員我剛才講過我們長期以來我們對這個議題我們都有提供我們的長端去參考好 接下去的問題其實今天財政部在這邊我們要強調的是不管主權基金它的目的是什麼都要益處重要的財源對吧\n344742\t372434\t這個方向應該沒有錯吧當然財源來自於哪裡是可以討論的所以像在新加坡的主權基金它的收入2025年新加坡的財政總收入是1499億新幣但是就有271億來自國家儲備的投資回報也就是相關的主權基金也就是政府的稅收來源裡面每五塊錢就有一塊錢是來自於主權基金這其實是一個穩健的財源\n373775\t393352\t第二個他的對GDP的貢獻也非常的高加上新加坡政府在他們國內有足夠的財源至少在剛剛講的居住正義上面有相當多的資源可以做公共住宅社會住宅最重要的是94%他都可以\n394213\t418366\t建設所謂的社會住宅出租給民眾讓民眾不會有房屋的問題所以我們希望的是財源進來之後要怎麼用這才是重點增加了錢很好但錢像現在國發基金也有其他也有 台商公司也有但它沒有辦法完整的挹注到政府的財源的話其實都是白搭\n419326\t446119\t主權基金不應該是那個樣子國發基金是要去扶植我們國內的企業但主權基金是要幫政府增加財源所以這個部分包括央行當時我有回報是說央行不需要啊央行外匯存體都有委託操作啊所以央行的獲益很穩定但是央行的獲益副總裁你們每年大概的利息收到多少你們委外操作賺到的錢有多少\n450492\t471432\t每年投資報酬率高不高?介於2.2到3之間所以您滿意嗎?您覺得滿意嗎?國外操作收益率3.53最高自行經營的收益率大概最高2.66這在跟主權基金比起來,你覺得你們這樣子的操作\n472912\t492698\t那個報委這兩個性質是不一樣所以主權基金操作應該要更好是但是就是不是央行來做我覺得這個國家就是希望這個政策下來各單位應該是有志一同大家一起努力如果這個方向還是你做你的我做我的就不會做好\n493118\t522501\t那個報告委員我們一直主張有一個專責機構來負責這個操作是所以就是大家要去找出一個共同性嘛不應該還是這樣你推我我推你最後就是在去年我們超徵的時候其實我在這裡也有跟部長說過超徵之後的錢要怎麼用大家都有想法我們主張有兩個第一個該還債有閒第二個其實每年超徵三四千億真的可以成立土權基金啊\n523533\t548361\t成立主權基金再去賺更多的錢而不是平白無故的不管是用到哪裡去把它花光光今年大家在審特別條例感覺就是要把稅基剩餘還有去年的超徵金額全部用完我覺得不是好事主權基金是將來超徵的財源之一而且它應該長期穩定每一年政府\n549281\t562831\t施政經濟的成果應該是全民共享而不是單純的發錢或者是去做其他的東西而是應該拿來在益助政府可以賺更多的錢來做更多的建設對吧\n564372\t585622\t所以兩位今天我希望昨天聽完很興奮今天看到你們兩位的回答我又很沮喪所以我希望主權基金應該有個具體的時程我希望一個月之內有一個大概有的方向否則我們在這邊又是恐歡喜一場部長你可以做到一個月之內告訴我你們規劃或者是跟央行之間協調的過程嗎\n588052\t613806\t委員這個部分行政院會要從相關部會來會商是但是兩位如果我們在財政委員會站在這裡還得到這樣的答案我覺得是蠻一笑大方的為什麼因為總統昨天講話今天兩位最重要的官員完全不知道立法委員也問不到東西這不是一個民主國家該有的方式\n615180\t629066\t變成總統也是黑箱然後到立法院來沒有人可以回答我們的問題這不是一個懂得溝通的政府或者是你們行政事務官有積極參與決策的政府這樣的狀況會讓人民沒有信心\n633368\t661469\t好嗎我希望一個月之內我會再問兩位最後就是我們還是希望啦主權基金有三個原則第一個一定要有專業的經營團隊第二個要明確的投資策略還有風險控管第三個要有明確的法源依據還有公開透明就是我們希望兩位在將來行政院討論有關主權基金的時候這幾個原則一定要納入所有相關的內容可以嗎\n662998\t670665\t我們的意見會納入好 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員的質詢 下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢請謝謝主席 有請財政部莊部長還有負稅署財政部莊部長 負稅署署長\n","txt":"莊部長 袁副總裁\n我也好部長好副總裁好我想昨天很重要的是520賴清德總統在就職的週年演說宣示台灣要成立所謂的主權基金打造國家級的投資平台在這邊我就不禁要說了部長還有副總裁台灣民眾黨的版本在去年3月就已經送到立法院\n但是我們在這中間過程中包括立法院的專案報告跟央行給我們的回覆以及財政部的說明都說目前沒有必要而且突然間又突然有必要了是嗎所以部長我想問一下財政部有沒有接到行政院指示準備參與主權基金還有它成立的時程\n這個部分呢 行政院後續應該會再召開所以沒有參與前面的討論邀同相關部會一起來做開會討論副總裁 我們的版本是在央行底下成立啦我知道總裁一直很不希望在央行來主管他說給錢沒問題啦 要你們管有問題請問 原副總裁 央行有沒有參與總統有關主學基金成立的相關討論還有目前你們的時程是什麼\n報告委員因為長期以來我們都會把我們對這一塊議題的報告送成你們的立場一直就是外匯存體可以借你們用但是我要收利息啦是吧我們的原則是不能夠無償使用不能無償使用就是你們可以拿出來第二個你們不願意當主管機關對吧對部長那中央有跟你討論過由財政部來扛下主責機關政策的大旗嗎\n目前并没有做这样的讨论在主权基金全世界都是大部分至少我们知道最熟悉的新加坡是财政部主导接下去台湾会怎么样可能也是上一次央行有提出专案报告给财委会的书面报告有三种形式第一个反正财政部发债第二个部分是财政部拨款\n所以這三個方法都是財政部財政部有沒有意見\n跟委員報告各國的財政部的執掌內容並不相同這是一個那第二個對於有關財源來自於哪裡這是央行在報告裡面所以央行的報告也沒跟你討論是只講說財源來自哪裡好所以重點是我覺得主權基金是件好事這是上一屆吳欣穎委員代表台灣民眾黨在立法院不斷的\n倡議而且正式的修法最重要的是我們在總統大選的時候也成為台灣民眾黨的政見那去年3月我們就已經提案在央行在財政部我們都希望能夠進行討論但是很遺憾行政院一直沒有理會直到昨天看到總統突然間冒出來今天再問到兩位好像你們也沒參與所以整個過程我認為啦\n可能又變成是一個突發奇想或者是就像國軍軍人突然間要說恢復軍事審判到今天還是沒有任何下文我不希望它又是一個突然間曇花一現的構想我希望兩位對於台灣的主權基金應該現在就應該有進一步的想法甚至要積極的參與\n對於立法院還有總統都已經這樣說的重要政策我們不應該像兩位現在的狀況什麼都不知道可以嗎你們可以告訴我在一個月之內可以給我一個初步的時程表嗎或者是簡單的說美國川普總統二月份簽署了一個行政命令說要成立美國主權基金三個月五月的時候白宮發言人已經表示財政部跟商務部已經擬定了設立計畫\n只花三個月然後新加坡當時成立主權基金花了八個月我現在不知道我們的總統520宣布之後你們要花幾個月所以部長在我下一次在這邊質詢的時候可能我就會問你相關的時程啦你現在都不知道嗎還不知道\n跟委員說明了這個部分行政院會要同國發會央行以及各財主單位一起來做研議規劃好 副總裁剛剛講的卓文泰院長在日前接受專訪的時候也說了他說到底誰來出資啊有心有所屬對方不一定滿意會再慢慢協調所以這個對方是不是指央行\n報告委員 我不知道他的行為是怎樣他心有所屬 劣跡啦但是你好像不滿意啦 所以他要再跟你慢慢協調啦所以院長有來跟你們商量了嗎 還沒\n報告委員我剛才講過我們長期以來我們對這個議題我們都有提供我們的長端去參考好 接下去的問題其實今天財政部在這邊我們要強調的是不管主權基金它的目的是什麼都要益處重要的財源對吧\n這個方向應該沒有錯吧當然財源來自於哪裡是可以討論的所以像在新加坡的主權基金它的收入2025年新加坡的財政總收入是1499億新幣但是就有271億來自國家儲備的投資回報也就是相關的主權基金也就是政府的稅收來源裡面每五塊錢就有一塊錢是來自於主權基金這其實是一個穩健的財源\n第二個他的對GDP的貢獻也非常的高加上新加坡政府在他們國內有足夠的財源至少在剛剛講的居住正義上面有相當多的資源可以做公共住宅社會住宅最重要的是94%他都可以\n建設所謂的社會住宅出租給民眾讓民眾不會有房屋的問題所以我們希望的是財源進來之後要怎麼用這才是重點增加了錢很好但錢像現在國發基金也有其他也有 台商公司也有但它沒有辦法完整的挹注到政府的財源的話其實都是白搭\n主權基金不應該是那個樣子國發基金是要去扶植我們國內的企業但主權基金是要幫政府增加財源所以這個部分包括央行當時我有回報是說央行不需要啊央行外匯存體都有委託操作啊所以央行的獲益很穩定但是央行的獲益副總裁你們每年大概的利息收到多少你們委外操作賺到的錢有多少\n每年投資報酬率高不高?介於2.2到3之間所以您滿意嗎?您覺得滿意嗎?國外操作收益率3.53最高自行經營的收益率大概最高2.66這在跟主權基金比起來,你覺得你們這樣子的操作\n那個報委這兩個性質是不一樣所以主權基金操作應該要更好是但是就是不是央行來做我覺得這個國家就是希望這個政策下來各單位應該是有志一同大家一起努力如果這個方向還是你做你的我做我的就不會做好\n那個報告委員我們一直主張有一個專責機構來負責這個操作是所以就是大家要去找出一個共同性嘛不應該還是這樣你推我我推你最後就是在去年我們超徵的時候其實我在這裡也有跟部長說過超徵之後的錢要怎麼用大家都有想法我們主張有兩個第一個該還債有閒第二個其實每年超徵三四千億真的可以成立土權基金啊\n成立主權基金再去賺更多的錢而不是平白無故的不管是用到哪裡去把它花光光今年大家在審特別條例感覺就是要把稅基剩餘還有去年的超徵金額全部用完我覺得不是好事主權基金是將來超徵的財源之一而且它應該長期穩定每一年政府\n施政經濟的成果應該是全民共享而不是單純的發錢或者是去做其他的東西而是應該拿來在益助政府可以賺更多的錢來做更多的建設對吧\n所以兩位今天我希望昨天聽完很興奮今天看到你們兩位的回答我又很沮喪所以我希望主權基金應該有個具體的時程我希望一個月之內有一個大概有的方向否則我們在這邊又是恐歡喜一場部長你可以做到一個月之內告訴我你們規劃或者是跟央行之間協調的過程嗎\n委員這個部分行政院會要從相關部會來會商是但是兩位如果我們在財政委員會站在這裡還得到這樣的答案我覺得是蠻一笑大方的為什麼因為總統昨天講話今天兩位最重要的官員完全不知道立法委員也問不到東西這不是一個民主國家該有的方式\n變成總統也是黑箱然後到立法院來沒有人可以回答我們的問題這不是一個懂得溝通的政府或者是你們行政事務官有積極參與決策的政府這樣的狀況會讓人民沒有信心\n好嗎我希望一個月之內我會再問兩位最後就是我們還是希望啦主權基金有三個原則第一個一定要有專業的經營團隊第二個要明確的投資策略還有風險控管第三個要有明確的法源依據還有公開透明就是我們希望兩位在將來行政院討論有關主權基金的時候這幾個原則一定要納入所有相關的內容可以嗎\n我們的意見會納入好 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員的質詢 下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢請謝謝主席 有請財政部莊部長還有負稅署財政部莊部長 負稅署署長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.370 --> 00:01.073\n莊部長袁副總裁\n\n00:08.737 --> 00:30.814\n我也好部長好副總裁好我想昨天很重要的是520賴清德總統在就職的週年演說宣示台灣要成立所謂的主權基金打造國家級的投資平台在這邊我就不禁要說了部長還有副總裁台灣民眾黨的版本在去年3月就已經送到立法院\n\n00:31.835 --> 00:52.068\n但是我們在這中間過程中包括立法院的專案報告跟央行給我們的回覆以及財政部的說明都說目前沒有必要而且突然間又突然有必要了是嗎所以部長我想問一下財政部有沒有接到行政院指示準備參與主權基金還有它成立的時程\n\n00:54.031 --> 01:20.498\n這個部分呢行政院後續應該會再召開所以沒有參與前面的討論邀同相關部會一起來做開會討論副總裁我們的版本是在央行底下成立啦我知道總裁一直很不希望在央行來主管他說給錢沒問題啦要你們管有問題請問原副總裁央行有沒有參與總統有關主學基金成立的相關討論還有目前你們的時程是什麼\n\n01:21.804 --> 01:49.138\n報告委員因為長期以來我們都會把我們對這一塊議題的報告送成你們的立場一直就是外匯存體可以借你們用但是我要收利息啦是吧我們的原則是不能夠無償使用不能無償使用就是你們可以拿出來第二個你們不願意當主管機關對吧對部長那中央有跟你討論過由財政部來扛下主責機關政策的大旗嗎\n\n01:50.912 --> 02:16.374\n目前并没有做这样的讨论在主权基金全世界都是大部分至少我们知道最熟悉的新加坡是财政部主导接下去台湾会怎么样可能也是上一次央行有提出专案报告给财委会的书面报告有三种形式第一个反正财政部发债第二个部分是财政部拨款\n\n02:17.093 --> 02:18.354\n所以這三個方法都是財政部財政部有沒有意見\n\n02:36.769 --> 03:02.775\n跟委員報告各國的財政部的執掌內容並不相同這是一個那第二個對於有關財源來自於哪裡這是央行在報告裡面所以央行的報告也沒跟你討論是只講說財源來自哪裡好所以重點是我覺得主權基金是件好事這是上一屆吳欣穎委員代表台灣民眾黨在立法院不斷的\n\n03:05.473 --> 03:28.694\n倡議而且正式的修法最重要的是我們在總統大選的時候也成為台灣民眾黨的政見那去年3月我們就已經提案在央行在財政部我們都希望能夠進行討論但是很遺憾行政院一直沒有理會直到昨天看到總統突然間冒出來今天再問到兩位好像你們也沒參與所以整個過程我認為啦\n\n03:30.134 --> 03:53.187\n可能又變成是一個突發奇想或者是就像國軍軍人突然間要說恢復軍事審判到今天還是沒有任何下文我不希望它又是一個突然間曇花一現的構想我希望兩位對於台灣的主權基金應該現在就應該有進一步的想法甚至要積極的參與\n\n03:55.368 --> 04:22.696\n對於立法院還有總統都已經這樣說的重要政策我們不應該像兩位現在的狀況什麼都不知道可以嗎你們可以告訴我在一個月之內可以給我一個初步的時程表嗎或者是簡單的說美國川普總統二月份簽署了一個行政命令說要成立美國主權基金三個月五月的時候白宮發言人已經表示財政部跟商務部已經擬定了設立計畫\n\n04:26.112 --> 04:44.292\n只花三個月然後新加坡當時成立主權基金花了八個月我現在不知道我們的總統520宣布之後你們要花幾個月所以部長在我下一次在這邊質詢的時候可能我就會問你相關的時程啦你現在都不知道嗎還不知道\n\n04:47.011 --> 05:10.454\n跟委員說明了這個部分行政院會要同國發會央行以及各財主單位一起來做研議規劃好副總裁剛剛講的卓文泰院長在日前接受專訪的時候也說了他說到底誰來出資啊有心有所屬對方不一定滿意會再慢慢協調所以這個對方是不是指央行\n\n05:13.090 --> 05:24.634\n報告委員我不知道他的行為是怎樣他心有所屬劣跡啦但是你好像不滿意啦所以他要再跟你慢慢協調啦所以院長有來跟你們商量了嗎還沒\n\n05:26.508 --> 05:42.367\n報告委員我剛才講過我們長期以來我們對這個議題我們都有提供我們的長端去參考好接下去的問題其實今天財政部在這邊我們要強調的是不管主權基金它的目的是什麼都要益處重要的財源對吧\n\n05:44.742 --> 06:12.434\n這個方向應該沒有錯吧當然財源來自於哪裡是可以討論的所以像在新加坡的主權基金它的收入2025年新加坡的財政總收入是1499億新幣但是就有271億來自國家儲備的投資回報也就是相關的主權基金也就是政府的稅收來源裡面每五塊錢就有一塊錢是來自於主權基金這其實是一個穩健的財源\n\n06:13.775 --> 06:33.352\n第二個他的對GDP的貢獻也非常的高加上新加坡政府在他們國內有足夠的財源至少在剛剛講的居住正義上面有相當多的資源可以做公共住宅社會住宅最重要的是94%他都可以\n\n06:34.213 --> 06:58.366\n建設所謂的社會住宅出租給民眾讓民眾不會有房屋的問題所以我們希望的是財源進來之後要怎麼用這才是重點增加了錢很好但錢像現在國發基金也有其他也有台商公司也有但它沒有辦法完整的挹注到政府的財源的話其實都是白搭\n\n06:59.326 --> 07:26.119\n主權基金不應該是那個樣子國發基金是要去扶植我們國內的企業但主權基金是要幫政府增加財源所以這個部分包括央行當時我有回報是說央行不需要啊央行外匯存體都有委託操作啊所以央行的獲益很穩定但是央行的獲益副總裁你們每年大概的利息收到多少你們委外操作賺到的錢有多少\n\n07:30.492 --> 07:51.432\n每年投資報酬率高不高?介於2.2到3之間所以您滿意嗎?您覺得滿意嗎?國外操作收益率3.53最高自行經營的收益率大概最高2.66這在跟主權基金比起來,你覺得你們這樣子的操作\n\n07:52.912 --> 08:12.698\n那個報委這兩個性質是不一樣所以主權基金操作應該要更好是但是就是不是央行來做我覺得這個國家就是希望這個政策下來各單位應該是有志一同大家一起努力如果這個方向還是你做你的我做我的就不會做好\n\n08:13.118 --> 08:42.501\n那個報告委員我們一直主張有一個專責機構來負責這個操作是所以就是大家要去找出一個共同性嘛不應該還是這樣你推我我推你最後就是在去年我們超徵的時候其實我在這裡也有跟部長說過超徵之後的錢要怎麼用大家都有想法我們主張有兩個第一個該還債有閒第二個其實每年超徵三四千億真的可以成立土權基金啊\n\n08:43.533 --> 09:08.361\n成立主權基金再去賺更多的錢而不是平白無故的不管是用到哪裡去把它花光光今年大家在審特別條例感覺就是要把稅基剩餘還有去年的超徵金額全部用完我覺得不是好事主權基金是將來超徵的財源之一而且它應該長期穩定每一年政府\n\n09:09.281 --> 09:22.831\n施政經濟的成果應該是全民共享而不是單純的發錢或者是去做其他的東西而是應該拿來在益助政府可以賺更多的錢來做更多的建設對吧\n\n09:24.372 --> 09:45.622\n所以兩位今天我希望昨天聽完很興奮今天看到你們兩位的回答我又很沮喪所以我希望主權基金應該有個具體的時程我希望一個月之內有一個大概有的方向否則我們在這邊又是恐歡喜一場部長你可以做到一個月之內告訴我你們規劃或者是跟央行之間協調的過程嗎\n\n09:48.052 --> 10:13.806\n委員這個部分行政院會要從相關部會來會商是但是兩位如果我們在財政委員會站在這裡還得到這樣的答案我覺得是蠻一笑大方的為什麼因為總統昨天講話今天兩位最重要的官員完全不知道立法委員也問不到東西這不是一個民主國家該有的方式\n\n10:15.180 --> 10:29.066\n變成總統也是黑箱然後到立法院來沒有人可以回答我們的問題這不是一個懂得溝通的政府或者是你們行政事務官有積極參與決策的政府這樣的狀況會讓人民沒有信心\n\n10:33.368 --> 11:01.469\n好嗎我希望一個月之內我會再問兩位最後就是我們還是希望啦主權基金有三個原則第一個一定要有專業的經營團隊第二個要明確的投資策略還有風險控管第三個要有明確的法源依據還有公開透明就是我們希望兩位在將來行政院討論有關主權基金的時候這幾個原則一定要納入所有相關的內容可以嗎\n\n11:02.998 --> 11:10.665\n我們的意見會納入好謝謝好謝謝黃委員的質詢下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢請謝謝主席有請財政部莊部長還有負稅署財政部莊部長負稅署署長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.37,"end":1.073,"text":"莊部長 袁副總裁"},{"start":8.737,"end":30.814,"text":"我也好部長好副總裁好我想昨天很重要的是520賴清德總統在就職的週年演說宣示台灣要成立所謂的主權基金打造國家級的投資平台在這邊我就不禁要說了部長還有副總裁台灣民眾黨的版本在去年3月就已經送到立法院"},{"start":31.835,"end":52.068,"text":"但是我們在這中間過程中包括立法院的專案報告跟央行給我們的回覆以及財政部的說明都說目前沒有必要而且突然間又突然有必要了是嗎所以部長我想問一下財政部有沒有接到行政院指示準備參與主權基金還有它成立的時程"},{"start":54.031,"end":80.498,"text":"這個部分呢 行政院後續應該會再召開所以沒有參與前面的討論邀同相關部會一起來做開會討論副總裁 我們的版本是在央行底下成立啦我知道總裁一直很不希望在央行來主管他說給錢沒問題啦 要你們管有問題請問 原副總裁 央行有沒有參與總統有關主學基金成立的相關討論還有目前你們的時程是什麼"},{"start":81.804,"end":109.138,"text":"報告委員因為長期以來我們都會把我們對這一塊議題的報告送成你們的立場一直就是外匯存體可以借你們用但是我要收利息啦是吧我們的原則是不能夠無償使用不能無償使用就是你們可以拿出來第二個你們不願意當主管機關對吧對部長那中央有跟你討論過由財政部來扛下主責機關政策的大旗嗎"},{"start":110.912,"end":136.374,"text":"目前并没有做这样的讨论在主权基金全世界都是大部分至少我们知道最熟悉的新加坡是财政部主导接下去台湾会怎么样可能也是上一次央行有提出专案报告给财委会的书面报告有三种形式第一个反正财政部发债第二个部分是财政部拨款"},{"start":137.093,"end":138.354,"text":"所以這三個方法都是財政部財政部有沒有意見"},{"start":156.769,"end":182.775,"text":"跟委員報告各國的財政部的執掌內容並不相同這是一個那第二個對於有關財源來自於哪裡這是央行在報告裡面所以央行的報告也沒跟你討論是只講說財源來自哪裡好所以重點是我覺得主權基金是件好事這是上一屆吳欣穎委員代表台灣民眾黨在立法院不斷的"},{"start":185.473,"end":208.694,"text":"倡議而且正式的修法最重要的是我們在總統大選的時候也成為台灣民眾黨的政見那去年3月我們就已經提案在央行在財政部我們都希望能夠進行討論但是很遺憾行政院一直沒有理會直到昨天看到總統突然間冒出來今天再問到兩位好像你們也沒參與所以整個過程我認為啦"},{"start":210.134,"end":233.187,"text":"可能又變成是一個突發奇想或者是就像國軍軍人突然間要說恢復軍事審判到今天還是沒有任何下文我不希望它又是一個突然間曇花一現的構想我希望兩位對於台灣的主權基金應該現在就應該有進一步的想法甚至要積極的參與"},{"start":235.368,"end":262.696,"text":"對於立法院還有總統都已經這樣說的重要政策我們不應該像兩位現在的狀況什麼都不知道可以嗎你們可以告訴我在一個月之內可以給我一個初步的時程表嗎或者是簡單的說美國川普總統二月份簽署了一個行政命令說要成立美國主權基金三個月五月的時候白宮發言人已經表示財政部跟商務部已經擬定了設立計畫"},{"start":266.112,"end":284.292,"text":"只花三個月然後新加坡當時成立主權基金花了八個月我現在不知道我們的總統520宣布之後你們要花幾個月所以部長在我下一次在這邊質詢的時候可能我就會問你相關的時程啦你現在都不知道嗎還不知道"},{"start":287.011,"end":310.454,"text":"跟委員說明了這個部分行政院會要同國發會央行以及各財主單位一起來做研議規劃好 副總裁剛剛講的卓文泰院長在日前接受專訪的時候也說了他說到底誰來出資啊有心有所屬對方不一定滿意會再慢慢協調所以這個對方是不是指央行"},{"start":313.09,"end":324.634,"text":"報告委員 我不知道他的行為是怎樣他心有所屬 劣跡啦但是你好像不滿意啦 所以他要再跟你慢慢協調啦所以院長有來跟你們商量了嗎 還沒"},{"start":326.508,"end":342.367,"text":"報告委員我剛才講過我們長期以來我們對這個議題我們都有提供我們的長端去參考好 接下去的問題其實今天財政部在這邊我們要強調的是不管主權基金它的目的是什麼都要益處重要的財源對吧"},{"start":344.742,"end":372.434,"text":"這個方向應該沒有錯吧當然財源來自於哪裡是可以討論的所以像在新加坡的主權基金它的收入2025年新加坡的財政總收入是1499億新幣但是就有271億來自國家儲備的投資回報也就是相關的主權基金也就是政府的稅收來源裡面每五塊錢就有一塊錢是來自於主權基金這其實是一個穩健的財源"},{"start":373.775,"end":393.352,"text":"第二個他的對GDP的貢獻也非常的高加上新加坡政府在他們國內有足夠的財源至少在剛剛講的居住正義上面有相當多的資源可以做公共住宅社會住宅最重要的是94%他都可以"},{"start":394.213,"end":418.366,"text":"建設所謂的社會住宅出租給民眾讓民眾不會有房屋的問題所以我們希望的是財源進來之後要怎麼用這才是重點增加了錢很好但錢像現在國發基金也有其他也有 台商公司也有但它沒有辦法完整的挹注到政府的財源的話其實都是白搭"},{"start":419.326,"end":446.119,"text":"主權基金不應該是那個樣子國發基金是要去扶植我們國內的企業但主權基金是要幫政府增加財源所以這個部分包括央行當時我有回報是說央行不需要啊央行外匯存體都有委託操作啊所以央行的獲益很穩定但是央行的獲益副總裁你們每年大概的利息收到多少你們委外操作賺到的錢有多少"},{"start":450.492,"end":471.432,"text":"每年投資報酬率高不高?介於2.2到3之間所以您滿意嗎?您覺得滿意嗎?國外操作收益率3.53最高自行經營的收益率大概最高2.66這在跟主權基金比起來,你覺得你們這樣子的操作"},{"start":472.912,"end":492.698,"text":"那個報委這兩個性質是不一樣所以主權基金操作應該要更好是但是就是不是央行來做我覺得這個國家就是希望這個政策下來各單位應該是有志一同大家一起努力如果這個方向還是你做你的我做我的就不會做好"},{"start":493.118,"end":522.501,"text":"那個報告委員我們一直主張有一個專責機構來負責這個操作是所以就是大家要去找出一個共同性嘛不應該還是這樣你推我我推你最後就是在去年我們超徵的時候其實我在這裡也有跟部長說過超徵之後的錢要怎麼用大家都有想法我們主張有兩個第一個該還債有閒第二個其實每年超徵三四千億真的可以成立土權基金啊"},{"start":523.533,"end":548.361,"text":"成立主權基金再去賺更多的錢而不是平白無故的不管是用到哪裡去把它花光光今年大家在審特別條例感覺就是要把稅基剩餘還有去年的超徵金額全部用完我覺得不是好事主權基金是將來超徵的財源之一而且它應該長期穩定每一年政府"},{"start":549.281,"end":562.831,"text":"施政經濟的成果應該是全民共享而不是單純的發錢或者是去做其他的東西而是應該拿來在益助政府可以賺更多的錢來做更多的建設對吧"},{"start":564.372,"end":585.622,"text":"所以兩位今天我希望昨天聽完很興奮今天看到你們兩位的回答我又很沮喪所以我希望主權基金應該有個具體的時程我希望一個月之內有一個大概有的方向否則我們在這邊又是恐歡喜一場部長你可以做到一個月之內告訴我你們規劃或者是跟央行之間協調的過程嗎"},{"start":588.052,"end":613.806,"text":"委員這個部分行政院會要從相關部會來會商是但是兩位如果我們在財政委員會站在這裡還得到這樣的答案我覺得是蠻一笑大方的為什麼因為總統昨天講話今天兩位最重要的官員完全不知道立法委員也問不到東西這不是一個民主國家該有的方式"},{"start":615.18,"end":629.066,"text":"變成總統也是黑箱然後到立法院來沒有人可以回答我們的問題這不是一個懂得溝通的政府或者是你們行政事務官有積極參與決策的政府這樣的狀況會讓人民沒有信心"},{"start":633.368,"end":661.469,"text":"好嗎我希望一個月之內我會再問兩位最後就是我們還是希望啦主權基金有三個原則第一個一定要有專業的經營團隊第二個要明確的投資策略還有風險控管第三個要有明確的法源依據還有公開透明就是我們希望兩位在將來行政院討論有關主權基金的時候這幾個原則一定要納入所有相關的內容可以嗎"},{"start":662.998,"end":670.665,"text":"我們的意見會納入好 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員的質詢 下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢請謝謝主席 有請財政部莊部長還有負稅署財政部莊部長 負稅署署長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1104,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時57分）謝謝主席，請財政部部長及央行副總裁。"],["主席：請莊部長、嚴副總裁。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長好、副總裁好。昨天很重要的是520賴清德總統在就職周年演說宣示臺灣要成立所謂的主權基金，打造國家級的投資平台，在這邊我就不禁要說了，部長及副總裁，台灣民進黨的版本在去年3月就已經送到立法院，但是我們在過程中，包括立法院的專案報告，跟央行給我們的回覆，以及財政部的說明，都說目前沒有必要，現在突然間又有必要了是嗎？部長，我想問一下，財政部有沒有接到行政院指示準備參與主權基金，以及它成立的時程如何？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分行政院後續應該會再召開……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以你沒有參與前面的討論？"],["莊部長翠雲：會邀集相關部會一起來開會討論。"],["黃委員珊珊：副總裁，我們的版本是在央行底下成立的，我知道總裁一直很不希望由央行主管，他說給錢沒問題，要你們管有問題，請問嚴副總裁，央行有沒有參與總統有關主權基金成立的相關討論？目前你們的時程是什麼？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，因為長期以來，我們都會把我們對這塊議題的報告送呈給……"],["黃委員珊珊：你們的立場一直就是外匯存底可以借你們用，但是我要收利息啦，是吧？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我們的原則是不能夠無償使用。"],["黃委員珊珊：不能無償使用就是你們可以拿出來；第二個，你們不願意當主管機關，對吧？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，請教部長，中央有跟你討論過由財政部來扛下主責機關政策的大旗嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前並沒有做這樣的討論。"],["黃委員珊珊：目前沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：主權基金就全世界大部分來講，至少我們知道最熟悉的新加坡是財政部主導，接下去臺灣會怎麼樣？可能也是上一次央行有提出專案報告，給財委會的書面報告有三種形式，第一個財政部發債；第二個是財政部撥款，出資成為淡馬錫一樣，像新加坡是財政部出資成為淡馬錫的股東，淡馬錫投資再去取得國營企業的股權；第三個是財政部出資設立，大部分的錢是來自於公部門。所以這三個方法都是財政部，財政部有沒有意見？還是你們也不知道，這個央行亂寫的？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，各國的財政部執掌內容並不相同，這是第一個。第二個，有關財源來自於哪裡，這是央行在報告裡面……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以央行的報告也沒跟你們討論？"],["莊部長翠雲：央行的報告是只講財源來自哪裡。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，所以重點是，我覺得主權基金是件好事，這是上一屆吳欣盈委員代表台灣民眾黨在立法院不斷的倡議，而且正式的修法，最重要的是我們在總統大選的時候也成為台灣民眾黨的政見，去年3月我們就已經提案，在央行、在財政部我們都希望能夠進行討論，但是很遺憾行政院一直沒有理會，直到昨天看到總統突然間冒出來，今天再問到兩位，好像你們也沒參與，所以整個過程，我認為可能又變成是一個突發奇想，或者是就像國軍軍人突然間說要恢復軍事審判，到今天還是沒有任何下文，我不希望它又是一個突然間曇花一現的構想，我希望兩位對於臺灣的主權基金現在就應該有進一步的想法，甚至要積極的參與，對於立法院還有總統都已經這樣說的重要政策，不應該像兩位現在的狀況，什麼都不知道，可以嗎？你們可以在一個月之內給我一個初步的時程表嗎？簡單地說，美國川普總統2月份簽署了一個行政命令，要成立美國主權基金，經過三個月，5月的時候白宮發言人已經表示財政部跟商務部已經擬定了設立計畫，只花三個月。再者，新加坡當時成立主權基金花了八個月，我現在不知道我們的總統在520宣布之後你們要花幾個月，所以部長，我下一次在這邊質詢的時候，可能就是會問你相關的時程啦，你現在都不知道嗎？還不知道？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員說明，這個部分行政院會要由國發會、央行以及各財主單位一起來做研議規劃。"],["黃委員珊珊：副總裁，剛剛講卓榮泰院長在日前接受專訪的時候也說了，他說到底誰來出資，心有所屬，對方不一定滿意，會再慢慢協調。這個「對方」是不是指央行？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，我不知道他的含義是怎樣。"],["黃委員珊珊：他心有所屬，是你的錢啦！但是你好像不滿意啦，所以他要再跟你慢慢協調。所以院長有來跟你們商量了嗎？還沒？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，我剛才講過，我們長期以來對這個議題，我們都有提供意見給長官參考。"],["黃委員珊珊：接下去的問題，今天財政部在這邊，我要強調的是，不管主權基金的目的是什麼，都要挹注中央的財源，對吧？這個方向應該沒有錯吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然財源來自於哪裡是可以討論的。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以像在新加坡的主權基金收入，2025年新加坡的財政總收入是1,499億新幣，但是只有270億來自國家儲備的投資回報，也就是相關的主權基金，也就是政府的稅收來源裡面，每5塊錢就有1塊錢是來自於主權基金，這其實是一個穩健的財源。第二個，它對GDP的貢獻也非常高，加上新加坡政府在他們國內有足夠的財源，至少在剛剛講的居住正義上面有相當多的資源可以做公共住宅、社會住宅，最重要的是，94%都可以建設所謂的社會住宅出租給民眾，讓民眾不會有房屋的問題。所以我們關心的是財源進來之後要怎麼用，這才是重點，增加了錢很好，但錢像現在國發基金也有啊，其他也有啊，台商公司也有，但是它沒有辦法完整的挹注到政府財源的話，其實都是白搭啦！主權基金不應該是那個樣子，國發基金是要去扶植我們國內的企業，但主權基金是要幫政府增加財源，所以這個部分，包括央行當時給我的回報是說央行不需要啊，央行外匯存取都有委託操作啊，所以央行的獲益很穩定，但是央行的獲益，請教副總裁，你們每年大概的利息賺到多少？你們委外操作賺到的錢有多少？每年投資報酬率高不高啊？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：介於2.2%到3%之間，每一年不一樣。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以您滿意嗎？您覺得滿意嗎？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：因為那個……"],["黃委員珊珊：委外操作收益率3.53%最高，自行經營的收益率大概最高2.66%，這跟主權基金比起來，你覺得你們這樣的操作……"],["嚴副總裁宗大：這兩個性質是不一樣。"],["黃委員珊珊：不一樣，所以主權基金操作應該要更好。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，但就不是央行來做，我覺得這個國家就是希望這個政策下來各單位應該是有志一同，大家一起努力，如果這個方向還是你做你的、我做我的，那就不會做好啦！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，我們一直主張有一個專責機構來負責操作。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，所以大家要去找出一個共通性嘛，不應該還是這樣你推我、我推你。","最後，在去年我們超徵的時候，其實我在這裡也有跟部長說過，超徵之後的錢要怎麼用，大家都有想法，我們主張有兩個，第一個是優先該還債，第二個是其實每年超徵三、四千億，真的可以成立主權基金，成立主權基金再去賺更多的錢，而不是平白無故的，不管是用到哪裡去把它花光光。今年大家在審特別條例，感覺就是要把歲計賸餘還有去年的超徵金額全部用完，我覺得不是好事。主權基金是將來超徵的財源之一，而且它應該長期穩定，每一年政府施政，經濟的成果應該是全民共享，而不是單純的發錢，或者是去做其他的東西，而是應該拿來再挹注政府可以賺更多的錢，來做更多的建設，對吧？我昨天聽完很興奮，今天看到你們兩位的回答，我又很沮喪，所以我希望主權基金應該有個具體的時程，我希望一個月之內大概有一個方向，否則我們在這邊又是空歡喜一場。部長，你可以一個月之內告訴我你們規劃或者是跟央行之間協調的過程嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分行政院會要邀集相關部會來會商的。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，但是如果我們在財政委員會，站在這裡還得到兩位這樣的答案，我覺得是蠻貽笑大方的，為什麼？因為總統昨天講話了，今天兩位最重要的官員完全不知道，立法委員也問不到東西，這不是一個民主國家該有的方式啦，變成總統也是黑箱，然後到立法院來，沒有人可以回答我們的問題，這不是一個懂得溝通的政府，或者是你們行政事務官有積極參與決策的政府，這樣的狀況會讓人民沒有信心，好嘛？我希望一個月之內，我會再問兩位。","最後，我們還是希望啦，主權基金有三個原則，第一個，一定要有專業的經營團隊；第二個，要有明確的投資策略，還有風險控管；第三個，要有明確的法源依據，還有公開透明。我們希望兩位在將來行政院討論有關主權基金的時候，這幾個原則一定要納入所有相關的內容，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員的意見會納入參考。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，謝謝。"],["主席（賴委員士葆）：謝謝黃委員的質詢。","下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-13","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","羅明才","李坤城","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","陳玉珍","林思銘","王世堅","林楚茵","廖先翔","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷"],"page_start":299,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部、金融監督管理委員會、中央銀行就「房屋稅2.0課徵亂象與金融機構對不動產\n融資緊縮及中央銀行信用管制措施對房地產交易之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中\n華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案 39 案；\n三、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結專案報告\n案9案","agenda_id":"1145101_00008"}}}