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\"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 901.16, \"end\": 901.3, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 901.3, \"end\": 901.54, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 901.54, \"end\": 901.8, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 901.8, \"end\": 902.921, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 902.921, \"end\": 903.021, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 903.021, \"end\": 903.041, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 903.041, \"end\": 903.061, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,024 --> 00:00:14,130\n謝謝主席謝謝委員還有各位官員我們請林靜儀次長\n\n2\n00:00:26,664 --> 00:00:56,007\n委員好次長您辛苦了當然很多新聞早上已經露出了所以我這邊紛紛的獲得了一些資訊那這個我也非常的震驚因為這是昨天晚上的新聞我不知道您是否有看到有我們之前有發現但您身為長久以來都是性評委員會的委員也是許多女醫師的偶像也很會經營社群我相信像我的流量可能不如您但是我已經收到很多女醫師很在意這件事您那邊應該也更多啦\n\n3\n00:00:57,668 --> 00:01:02,751\n我是因為太忙所以我沒有去翻會訊但是今天早上記者來問我我才發現說1月\n\n4\n00:01:05,461 --> 00:01:32,420\n部長在這邊承諾說希望他們要改選理事長結果4月他大剌剌的發會訊說他身體康復了他要付出他要為婦產科學院貢獻另外他要帶30位年輕的醫師到日本去做交流還有做一些presentation等等的我不知道您是否他們應該快出發我不知道這是幾月幾號學會對學會理事長他現在要出國開會啦他現在要出國開會\n\n5\n00:01:34,662 --> 00:02:00,524\n但因為我有注意到其實次長之前對於權勢不對等的這種性騷你有做蠻多發文的我當然也驚呆了因為他放出來的這個list說有30位非常優秀的年輕醫師他要帶著他們去交流但你也可想而知我們也平常都開了很多國際學會嘛在這些場合會有蠻多權勢不對等是不是會有點擔心也想知道您\n\n6\n00:02:01,545 --> 00:02:22,415\n的相關處置後續會不會跟部長繼續追這件事情我想委員跟我們都在同一個學會那這樣的事情的發生事實上對於專業的形象是非常非常大的傷害那事實上我相信從今年應該是一月份一直到現在部長跟我其實都持續有跟學會這邊做溝通就是說\n\n7\n00:02:23,335 --> 00:02:52,339\n也希望學會這邊當然我們還是對於事件的調查以及後續法律上所賦予的相關的權利這個我們尊重但是我們也希望學會要能夠理解這是一個非常重要的影響到醫師生育而且它在醫學倫理上面甚至對於我們年輕醫師是一個很大的傷害的事件那我們也不斷的跟學會這邊溝通希望學會可以了解跟注意到不論是在性別的敏感度上面或社會的敏感度上面\n\n8\n00:02:52,739 --> 00:03:13,260\n要有更積極的處理因為記者揭露了這個會訊還有他們即將出國您是否今明兩天也會做一些動作其實我上禮拜就一直都在跟學會這邊說請他們要能夠注意到這件事情大家對於整個因為包含這整個事件的受害者也是我們自己的\n\n9\n00:03:14,201 --> 00:03:37,540\n成員是我們自己的會員所以我想請他們要能夠注意到相關我想在學會的甚至是理見士也要能夠理解這件事情不單純只是理事長自己一個人的事情是整個醫界整個婦產科界以及我們在前輩對於我們年輕醫師應有的詮釋上不應該的行為以及應該有的尊重我還是強調我希望學會這邊能夠重視\n\n10\n00:03:39,902 --> 00:04:07,464\n那當然這邊也是早上一些年輕醫師給我的建議因為你們之前有說你們也應該要親自到理監事會去溝通他們已經隔了四五個月沒有任何的動作但之前曾經衛福部有回函其他的委員說第一因為是人民團體你們比較難去做管理這是他們自治選出來的第二你們認為說可以先從提升醫師的自律開始\n\n11\n00:04:07,944 --> 00:04:22,530\n但這件事一般人觀感好像也蠻難接受的因為殺人放火然後跑來說我們要來提升法治的教育這件事已經蠻嚴重的可是你現在是提升醫師的自律如果提升醫生自律有效你們可能十年前就這樣做了嘛\n\n12\n00:04:23,690 --> 00:04:48,581\n年輕醫師他們覺得台大醫院已經2025年1月25就已經在他們的官網上發布說經訪查相關人員並釐清事情始末後確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重那他們早上說問我說這是另類的台灣之光嗎他還代表我們全國的婦產科醫師到國外去跟人家做交流\n\n13\n00:04:49,281 --> 00:05:01,052\n因此他們有想到了一個方法在這邊也想請次長聽聽看因為你們常常說衛福部沒有權利去管人民團體但是衛福部卻把專科醫師的甄選制度交給了醫學會大家我們都考過嘛我們要經過很嚴格的口試\n\n14\n00:05:11,991 --> 00:05:29,843\n比試或是面試還會問你醫學倫理相關的問題結果現在掌管全國所有醫師到底誰可以拿到專科醫師執照的人是台大醫院網站上認證確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重這不是很荒謬嗎是\n\n15\n00:05:31,064 --> 00:05:50,059\n所以這是一個我還是再一次強調醫師這邊我們不論是現有醫師雖然是醫師身份但是他也受性平三法的管理他在工作職場上面屬於性平法性平工作法他如果是學校附屬他又是在性平性平等教育法再來性別性騷擾防治法醫師一樣受到這個規範\n\n16\n00:05:51,480 --> 00:06:11,498\n所以第一個事情當然在現有的法治的狀況之下我們希望各機關各要能夠去落實原來在性平三法中對於受害者的保障以及相關的性平調查那性平調查之後剛剛我想委員也指導了他不論是在醫師法相關懲戒的辦法裡面事實上是可以更積極來做處理這是第一個部分第二個部分其實我想委員也知道在\n\n17\n00:06:13,079 --> 00:06:35,924\n這個像這個案子因為現在您提到的是主治醫師那有些是住院醫師之前有住院醫師的案子住院醫師在受訓過程中其實他除了原有的技術的訓練有相關的手冊要求他學到什麼程度之外我相信住院醫師在受訓過程中他本身在一定應該有的不論是法律遵循或者是人格操守尤其最重要的是醫學倫理的部分他的\n\n18\n00:06:37,264 --> 00:06:46,208\n訓練醫院我們講的教學訓練醫院本來也包含具有這樣的責任而且教學訓練醫院在這個過程中他也具有這個責任來為後續能夠去參與相關專科醫師這個考試應該還有一定程度的把關\n\n19\n00:06:52,191 --> 00:07:16,207\n當然大家最不能接受的就是這位性侵的住院醫師爆發才發現原來理事長也是他當時的主任嘛所以他也完成了他的住院醫師訓練最後也通過了專科醫師考試所以我是想在這邊請衛福部研擬一下你們不能給人家責任可是你們又不去究責畢竟你賦予他的還真的是個蠻大的責任啊你也知道錄取率\n\n20\n00:07:17,828 --> 00:07:21,850\n可能從90%到100%不等啦不等不等嘛不等所以有人還是會被刷掉的嘛所以你要怎麼樣透過你賦予他這個權利去加強對我們學會的管理因為你現在看起來是沒法源你管不了他\n\n21\n00:07:35,497 --> 00:07:53,013\n好跟委员报告谢谢委员关心这件事情我们医事司正在研拟就是说当然这一次的事件比较受瞩目是因为是著名的顶尖医院然后又是这个主管级的医师那所以会受到比较多的更多的关注不过以医事司这边我们所管理的医事人员来讲\n\n22\n00:07:53,834 --> 00:08:06,994\n會發生這一類的事件不單純只是醫師不單純只是婦產科醫師所以我們正在全面盤點因為相關的法規可能會散在各醫事人員的法規裡頭甚至有些醫事人員他也可能都只是他原來的這個所謂職業倫理那一塊\n\n23\n00:08:08,817 --> 00:08:30,967\n那现在我们正在跟医师施政在整理盘点就是七月份会有一个一轮的会议那在那之前我们会有一些草案或者是一些拟定家长对学会的观点对学会以及我们的专级医疗人员这些都是考过国家考试的这些人员他应该有后续的一些除了现有的性平三法之外有没有在专业上面再刻意其他的责任\n\n24\n00:08:31,467 --> 00:08:45,842\n應該是說考過國家考試之後其實還有一個不管是專科醫師審查他是沒有國家考試但你已經賦予他這個權利了所以你應該要也去限制他因為這個沒有人可以接受啦早上年輕的醫師傳簡訊給我他是寫說\n\n25\n00:08:48,224 --> 00:09:05,862\n大家是敢怒不敢言因為他們就是被他審查的人其實跟委員有報告就是說包含其實我們之前有另外一個案子是別的專科醫師那也是性騷或性騷跟性侵成立我們在衛福部就特別跟相關的團體提到這樣子的醫師如果他\n\n26\n00:09:06,923 --> 00:09:20,299\n以他的名義或者是他有參與的活動是跟我們衛福部去申請經費的話基本上我們是不支持的但現在偏偏是遇到我們審查的頭他也試射這件事情所以對於專業學會內部這邊的選擇我們會來要求要特別注意再來剛剛真的蠻多衛委員\n\n27\n00:09:26,866 --> 00:09:50,836\n已經問過了啦但我是想知道說因為你之前呢比如說計程車司機兒童工作者教師通通都要因為涉案被停止醫師剛講到權力不對等尤其是這兩個案例有的兩個都非常明顯都是權力不對等不管是他跟同人之間同儕之間或者是有的是醫師跟病患之間\n\n28\n00:09:52,478 --> 00:10:15,727\n這是我之前有看了很多很欣賞您的發言啊在台中市教師疑似全市欣賞的時候您就說得非常的好沒有人想要列屋可是台中市政府4月以來該停聘的不停聘該擴大調查沒有積極調查讓台中市的父母四處詢問那接下來還有一個元能會主委的事件其實你也都記憶猶新嗎\n\n29\n00:10:18,649 --> 00:10:40,561\n當時對全市性騷擾的態度非常明確也堅定就是立即停聘停止剛剛有提到不管是這兩個案例有一個人是繼續上班兩個人應該都繼續上班吧所以其實如果依照現在的我們已經修訂過的性騷擾防治法13條之一事實上機關這邊就可以停止他的原來的工作那這邊是不是要請院長回答\n\n30\n00:10:44,701 --> 00:10:54,195\n當時這個教授繼續上班但是修法後三條之一是可以停止他現有的對因為他有教師的身份他有教師的身份所以當他涉案的時候就應該要予以停職\n\n31\n00:10:57,288 --> 00:11:18,255\n當時候他涉案的時候是主任不過我們成立調查的時候他已經不是主任了所以這個就是對於陳姓醫師那對於那個黃姓醫師事實上他涉案以後已經被我們的姓評委員不好意思院長停職好像跟不是主任的定義差很多\n\n32\n00:11:20,036 --> 00:11:43,157\n事實上他的他之所以能夠做那些很多都是因為他是主任那事實上我們已經判定以後我們甚至已經禁止他去接觸所有的你是說判定還是說涉案開始因為如果他是教師他是因為教師因此擁有醫師這個身份對\n\n33\n00:11:45,278 --> 00:12:05,166\n對那他教師那邊就應該要馬上停止教師的部分比醫院慢一點因為教師部分還要到學校的性評委員我是說我們醫院的性評委員調查以後我們就禁止他接受甚至只要他在辦公室裡面他的門都要打開的這個事實上是我們有在婦產部裡面\n\n34\n00:12:08,147 --> 00:12:32,178\n那至於黃姓14他涉案以後雖然沒有停止但是我們已經禁止他獨自看病患所以有應該是說雖然沒有真正的停止但是我們有就是包括組織醫師或包括甚至在婦產部裡面他們也有規定只要他在門診裡面門都要打開\n\n35\n00:12:33,438 --> 00:12:49,110\n沒關係因為剛剛這個次長有很多答覆所以大家普遍我是反映大家的心聲啦希望您也可以在這方面從您以前的發言看起來是重視的可以做更多的著力好嗎謝謝我們就是希望可以亡羊補老快點\n\n36\n00:12:50,291 --> 00:13:19,297\n好謝謝那對不起最後一個問題最後一個問題問次長這個是最近也是許多男性還有泌尿科醫師會重視的前總統拜登他自己揭露說他有罹患攝護腺癌而且是末期那我們都知道反正末期他的餘命真的非常的短後來我們來回顧台灣的數據攝護腺癌是唯一在十大癌症中持續發生率繼續往上升而且在男性這邊標準化發生率是排名的第三名\n\n37\n00:13:20,157 --> 00:13:42,077\n後來我去跟泌尿科醫學會調資料大部分發現也真的是末期那晚期發現餘命可能僅有5年那尤其是他有家族史發生機率又是一般人的10倍以上我今天想探討的是泌尿科醫學會他們在這邊希望我可以幫忙發聲因為我們的這個篩檢可不可以納入他們如果\n\n38\n00:13:42,737 --> 00:14:09,528\n不管是他們乖乖的去做癌篩乖乖的去做成人健檢去做老人健檢或是勞工健檢都沒有包含這個項目就是PSA的抽血除非是他花錢來做自費的健檢我們也有去回顧了一些文獻像英國他是認為有可以有其必要性有其重要性那美國的預防醫學部認為可以兩年篩檢一次這邊是不是可以請衛福部研議\n\n39\n00:14:10,868 --> 00:14:35,056\n可不可以納入5I篩檢或是其他的謝謝委員指導這件事情因為想我們進入到高齡化社會之後那因為這是一個跟男性年齡增長有關的一個疾病所以他是不是評估納入篩檢那他的這個預算的狀況怎麼處理以及篩檢的這個效益到底如何這個部分是不是容我跟到時候病人可以學會跟我們的國健署\n\n40\n00:14:35,476 --> 00:15:03,061\n是那我具體建議泌尿科學會給我的建議是50歲以上希望每兩年可以篩檢一次PSA主席你覺得呢好主席一直看我不能再問他們是傾向用PSA我們再來跟學會這邊討論啦學會這邊因為他還出他有包含就是所謂的他的效益以及我們應該要的預算上怎麼樣編列跟落實這個部分讓我們跟學會再來討論好謝謝那就一個月謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11024\t14130\t謝謝主席 謝謝委員還有各位官員 我們請林靜儀次長\n26664\t56007\t委員好 次長您辛苦了當然很多新聞早上已經露出了所以我這邊紛紛的獲得了一些資訊那這個我也非常的震驚因為這是昨天晚上的新聞我不知道您是否有看到有 我們之前有發現但您身為長久以來都是性評委員會的委員也是許多女醫師的偶像也很會經營社群我相信像我的流量可能不如您但是我已經收到很多女醫師很在意這件事您那邊應該也更多啦\n57668\t62751\t我是因為太忙所以我沒有去翻會訊但是今天早上記者來問我我才發現說1月\n65461\t92420\t部長在這邊承諾說希望他們要改選理事長結果4月他大剌剌的發會訊說他身體康復了他要付出他要為婦產科學院貢獻另外他要帶30位年輕的醫師到日本去做交流還有做一些presentation等等的我不知道您是否他們應該快出發我不知道這是幾月幾號學會對學會理事長他現在要出國開會啦他現在要出國開會\n94662\t120524\t但因為我有注意到其實次長之前對於權勢不對等的這種性騷你有做蠻多發文的我當然也驚呆了因為他放出來的這個list說有30位非常優秀的年輕醫師他要帶著他們去交流但你也可想而知我們也平常都開了很多國際學會嘛在這些場合會有蠻多權勢不對等是不是會有點擔心也想知道您\n121545\t142415\t的相關處置後續會不會跟部長繼續追這件事情我想委員跟我們都在同一個學會那這樣的事情的發生事實上對於專業的形象是非常非常大的傷害那事實上我相信從今年應該是一月份一直到現在部長跟我其實都持續有跟學會這邊做溝通就是說\n143335\t172339\t也希望學會這邊當然我們還是對於事件的調查以及後續法律上所賦予的相關的權利這個我們尊重但是我們也希望學會要能夠理解這是一個非常重要的影響到醫師生育而且它在醫學倫理上面甚至對於我們年輕醫師是一個很大的傷害的事件那我們也不斷的跟學會這邊溝通希望學會可以了解跟注意到不論是在性別的敏感度上面或社會的敏感度上面\n172739\t193260\t要有更積極的處理因為記者揭露了這個會訊還有他們即將出國您是否今明兩天也會做一些動作其實我上禮拜就一直都在跟學會這邊說請他們要能夠注意到這件事情大家對於整個因為包含這整個事件的受害者也是我們自己的\n194201\t217540\t成員是我們自己的會員所以我想請他們要能夠注意到相關我想在學會的甚至是理見士也要能夠理解這件事情不單純只是理事長自己一個人的事情是整個醫界整個婦產科界以及我們在前輩對於我們年輕醫師應有的詮釋上不應該的行為以及應該有的尊重我還是強調我希望學會這邊能夠重視\n219902\t247464\t那當然這邊也是早上一些年輕醫師給我的建議因為你們之前有說你們也應該要親自到理監事會去溝通他們已經隔了四五個月沒有任何的動作但之前曾經衛福部有回函其他的委員說第一因為是人民團體你們比較難去做管理這是他們自治選出來的第二你們認為說可以先從提升醫師的自律開始\n247944\t262530\t但這件事一般人觀感好像也蠻難接受的因為殺人放火然後跑來說我們要來提升法治的教育這件事已經蠻嚴重的可是你現在是提升醫師的自律如果提升醫生自律有效你們可能十年前就這樣做了嘛\n263690\t288581\t年輕醫師他們覺得台大醫院已經2025年1月25就已經在他們的官網上發布說經訪查相關人員並釐清事情始末後確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重那他們早上說問我說這是另類的台灣之光嗎他還代表我們全國的婦產科醫師到國外去跟人家做交流\n289281\t301052\t因此他們有想到了一個方法在這邊也想請次長聽聽看因為你們常常說衛福部沒有權利去管人民團體但是衛福部卻把專科醫師的甄選制度交給了醫學會大家我們都考過嘛我們要經過很嚴格的口試\n311991\t329843\t比試或是面試還會問你醫學倫理相關的問題結果現在掌管全國所有醫師到底誰可以拿到專科醫師執照的人是台大醫院網站上認證確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重這不是很荒謬嗎是\n331064\t350059\t所以這是一個我還是再一次強調醫師這邊我們不論是現有醫師雖然是醫師身份但是他也受性平三法的管理他在工作職場上面屬於性平法性平工作法他如果是學校附屬他又是在性平性平等教育法再來性別性騷擾防治法醫師一樣受到這個規範\n351480\t371498\t所以第一個事情當然在現有的法治的狀況之下我們希望各機關各要能夠去落實原來在性平三法中對於受害者的保障以及相關的性平調查那性平調查之後剛剛我想委員也指導了他不論是在醫師法相關懲戒的辦法裡面事實上是可以更積極來做處理這是第一個部分第二個部分其實我想委員也知道在\n373079\t395924\t這個像這個案子因為現在您提到的是主治醫師那有些是住院醫師之前有住院醫師的案子住院醫師在受訓過程中其實他除了原有的技術的訓練有相關的手冊要求他學到什麼程度之外我相信住院醫師在受訓過程中他本身在一定應該有的不論是法律遵循或者是人格操守尤其最重要的是醫學倫理的部分他的\n397264\t406208\t訓練醫院我們講的教學訓練醫院本來也包含具有這樣的責任而且教學訓練醫院在這個過程中他也具有這個責任來為後續能夠去參與相關專科醫師這個考試應該還有一定程度的把關\n412191\t436207\t當然大家最不能接受的就是這位性侵的住院醫師爆發才發現原來理事長也是他當時的主任嘛所以他也完成了他的住院醫師訓練最後也通過了專科醫師考試所以我是想在這邊請衛福部研擬一下你們不能給人家責任可是你們又不去究責畢竟你賦予他的還真的是個蠻大的責任啊你也知道錄取率\n437828\t441850\t可能從90%到100%不等啦 不等不等嘛 不等 所以有人還是會被刷掉的嘛所以你要怎麼樣透過你賦予他這個權利去加強對我們學會的管理因為你現在看起來是沒法源 你管不了他\n455497\t473013\t好跟委员报告谢谢委员关心这件事情我们医事司正在研拟就是说当然这一次的事件比较受瞩目是因为是著名的顶尖医院然后又是这个主管级的医师那所以会受到比较多的更多的关注不过以医事司这边我们所管理的医事人员来讲\n473834\t486994\t會發生這一類的事件不單純只是醫師不單純只是婦產科醫師所以我們正在全面盤點因為相關的法規可能會散在各醫事人員的法規裡頭甚至有些醫事人員他也可能都只是他原來的這個所謂職業倫理那一塊\n488817\t510967\t那现在我们正在跟医师施政在整理盘点就是七月份会有一个一轮的会议那在那之前我们会有一些草案或者是一些拟定家长对学会的观点对学会以及我们的专级医疗人员这些都是考过国家考试的这些人员他应该有后续的一些除了现有的性平三法之外有没有在专业上面再刻意其他的责任\n511467\t525842\t應該是說考過國家考試之後其實還有一個不管是專科醫師審查他是沒有國家考試但你已經賦予他這個權利了所以你應該要也去限制他因為這個沒有人可以接受啦早上年輕的醫師傳簡訊給我他是寫說\n528224\t545862\t大家是敢怒不敢言因為他們就是被他審查的人其實跟委員有報告就是說包含其實我們之前有另外一個案子是別的專科醫師那也是性騷或性騷跟性侵成立我們在衛福部就特別跟相關的團體提到這樣子的醫師如果他\n546923\t560299\t以他的名義或者是他有參與的活動是跟我們衛福部去申請經費的話基本上我們是不支持的但現在偏偏是遇到我們審查的頭他也試射這件事情所以對於專業學會內部這邊的選擇我們會來要求要特別注意再來剛剛真的蠻多衛委員\n566866\t590836\t已經問過了啦但我是想知道說因為你之前呢比如說計程車司機兒童工作者教師通通都要因為涉案被停止醫師剛講到權力不對等尤其是這兩個案例有的兩個都非常明顯都是權力不對等不管是他跟同人之間同儕之間或者是有的是醫師跟病患之間\n592478\t615727\t這是我之前有看了很多很欣賞您的發言啊在台中市教師疑似全市欣賞的時候您就說得非常的好沒有人想要列屋可是台中市政府4月以來該停聘的不停聘該擴大調查沒有積極調查讓台中市的父母四處詢問那接下來還有一個元能會主委的事件其實你也都記憶猶新嗎\n618649\t640561\t當時對全市性騷擾的態度非常明確也堅定就是立即停聘停止剛剛有提到不管是這兩個案例有一個人是繼續上班兩個人應該都繼續上班吧所以其實如果依照現在的我們已經修訂過的性騷擾防治法13條之一事實上機關這邊就可以停止他的原來的工作那這邊是不是要請院長回答\n644701\t654195\t當時這個教授繼續上班但是修法後三條之一是可以停止他現有的對 因為他有教師的身份他有教師的身份所以當他涉案的時候就應該要予以停職\n657288\t678255\t當時候他涉案的時候是主任不過我們成立調查的時候他已經不是主任了所以這個就是對於陳姓醫師那對於那個黃姓醫師事實上他涉案以後已經被我們的姓評委員不好意思院長停職好像跟不是主任的定義差很多\n680036\t703157\t事實上他的他之所以能夠做那些很多都是因為他是主任那事實上我們已經判定以後我們甚至已經禁止他去接觸所有的你是說判定還是說涉案開始因為如果他是教師他是因為教師因此擁有醫師這個身份對\n705278\t725166\t對 那他教師那邊就應該要馬上停止教師的部分比醫院慢一點因為教師部分還要到學校的性評委員我是說我們醫院的性評委員調查以後我們就禁止他接受甚至只要他在辦公室裡面他的門都要打開的這個事實上是我們有在婦產部裡面\n728147\t752178\t那至於黃姓14他涉案以後雖然沒有停止但是我們已經禁止他獨自看病患所以有應該是說雖然沒有真正的停止但是我們有就是包括組織醫師或包括甚至在婦產部裡面他們也有規定只要他在門診裡面門都要打開\n753438\t769110\t沒關係 因為剛剛這個次長有很多答覆所以大家普遍 我是反映大家的心聲啦希望您也可以在這方面從您以前的發言看起來是重視的可以做更多的著力好嗎謝謝 我們就是希望可以亡羊補老 快點\n770291\t799297\t好 謝謝那對不起最後一個問題最後一個問題問次長這個是最近也是許多男性還有泌尿科醫師會重視的前總統拜登他自己揭露說他有罹患攝護腺癌而且是末期那我們都知道反正末期他的餘命真的非常的短後來我們來回顧台灣的數據攝護腺癌是唯一在十大癌症中持續發生率繼續往上升而且在男性這邊標準化發生率是排名的第三名\n800157\t822077\t後來我去跟泌尿科醫學會調資料大部分發現也真的是末期那晚期發現餘命可能僅有5年那尤其是他有家族史發生機率又是一般人的10倍以上我今天想探討的是泌尿科醫學會他們在這邊希望我可以幫忙發聲因為我們的這個篩檢可不可以納入他們如果\n822737\t849528\t不管是他們乖乖的去做癌篩乖乖的去做成人健檢去做老人健檢或是勞工健檢都沒有包含這個項目就是PSA的抽血除非是他花錢來做自費的健檢我們也有去回顧了一些文獻像英國他是認為有可以有其必要性有其重要性那美國的預防醫學部認為可以兩年篩檢一次這邊是不是可以請衛福部研議\n850868\t875056\t可不可以納入5I篩檢或是其他的謝謝委員指導這件事情因為想我們進入到高齡化社會之後那因為這是一個跟男性年齡增長有關的一個疾病所以他是不是評估納入篩檢那他的這個預算的狀況怎麼處理以及篩檢的這個效益到底如何這個部分是不是容我跟到時候病人可以學會跟我們的國健署\n875476\t903061\t是 那我具體建議 泌尿科學會給我的建議是50歲以上希望每兩年可以篩檢一次PSA主席你覺得呢好 主席一直看我 不能再問他們是傾向用PSA我們再來跟學會這邊討論啦學會這邊 因為他還出他有包含就是所謂的他的效益以及我們應該要的預算上怎麼樣編列跟落實這個部分讓我們跟學會再來討論好 謝謝 那就一個月謝謝 謝謝次長 謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 謝謝委員還有各位官員 我們請林靜儀次長\n委員好 次長您辛苦了當然很多新聞早上已經露出了所以我這邊紛紛的獲得了一些資訊那這個我也非常的震驚因為這是昨天晚上的新聞我不知道您是否有看到有 我們之前有發現但您身為長久以來都是性評委員會的委員也是許多女醫師的偶像也很會經營社群我相信像我的流量可能不如您但是我已經收到很多女醫師很在意這件事您那邊應該也更多啦\n我是因為太忙所以我沒有去翻會訊但是今天早上記者來問我我才發現說1月\n部長在這邊承諾說希望他們要改選理事長結果4月他大剌剌的發會訊說他身體康復了他要付出他要為婦產科學院貢獻另外他要帶30位年輕的醫師到日本去做交流還有做一些presentation等等的我不知道您是否他們應該快出發我不知道這是幾月幾號學會對學會理事長他現在要出國開會啦他現在要出國開會\n但因為我有注意到其實次長之前對於權勢不對等的這種性騷你有做蠻多發文的我當然也驚呆了因為他放出來的這個list說有30位非常優秀的年輕醫師他要帶著他們去交流但你也可想而知我們也平常都開了很多國際學會嘛在這些場合會有蠻多權勢不對等是不是會有點擔心也想知道您\n的相關處置後續會不會跟部長繼續追這件事情我想委員跟我們都在同一個學會那這樣的事情的發生事實上對於專業的形象是非常非常大的傷害那事實上我相信從今年應該是一月份一直到現在部長跟我其實都持續有跟學會這邊做溝通就是說\n也希望學會這邊當然我們還是對於事件的調查以及後續法律上所賦予的相關的權利這個我們尊重但是我們也希望學會要能夠理解這是一個非常重要的影響到醫師生育而且它在醫學倫理上面甚至對於我們年輕醫師是一個很大的傷害的事件那我們也不斷的跟學會這邊溝通希望學會可以了解跟注意到不論是在性別的敏感度上面或社會的敏感度上面\n要有更積極的處理因為記者揭露了這個會訊還有他們即將出國您是否今明兩天也會做一些動作其實我上禮拜就一直都在跟學會這邊說請他們要能夠注意到這件事情大家對於整個因為包含這整個事件的受害者也是我們自己的\n成員是我們自己的會員所以我想請他們要能夠注意到相關我想在學會的甚至是理見士也要能夠理解這件事情不單純只是理事長自己一個人的事情是整個醫界整個婦產科界以及我們在前輩對於我們年輕醫師應有的詮釋上不應該的行為以及應該有的尊重我還是強調我希望學會這邊能夠重視\n那當然這邊也是早上一些年輕醫師給我的建議因為你們之前有說你們也應該要親自到理監事會去溝通他們已經隔了四五個月沒有任何的動作但之前曾經衛福部有回函其他的委員說第一因為是人民團體你們比較難去做管理這是他們自治選出來的第二你們認為說可以先從提升醫師的自律開始\n但這件事一般人觀感好像也蠻難接受的因為殺人放火然後跑來說我們要來提升法治的教育這件事已經蠻嚴重的可是你現在是提升醫師的自律如果提升醫生自律有效你們可能十年前就這樣做了嘛\n年輕醫師他們覺得台大醫院已經2025年1月25就已經在他們的官網上發布說經訪查相關人員並釐清事情始末後確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重那他們早上說問我說這是另類的台灣之光嗎他還代表我們全國的婦產科醫師到國外去跟人家做交流\n因此他們有想到了一個方法在這邊也想請次長聽聽看因為你們常常說衛福部沒有權利去管人民團體但是衛福部卻把專科醫師的甄選制度交給了醫學會大家我們都考過嘛我們要經過很嚴格的口試\n比試或是面試還會問你醫學倫理相關的問題結果現在掌管全國所有醫師到底誰可以拿到專科醫師執照的人是台大醫院網站上認證確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重這不是很荒謬嗎是\n所以這是一個我還是再一次強調醫師這邊我們不論是現有醫師雖然是醫師身份但是他也受性平三法的管理他在工作職場上面屬於性平法性平工作法他如果是學校附屬他又是在性平性平等教育法再來性別性騷擾防治法醫師一樣受到這個規範\n所以第一個事情當然在現有的法治的狀況之下我們希望各機關各要能夠去落實原來在性平三法中對於受害者的保障以及相關的性平調查那性平調查之後剛剛我想委員也指導了他不論是在醫師法相關懲戒的辦法裡面事實上是可以更積極來做處理這是第一個部分第二個部分其實我想委員也知道在\n這個像這個案子因為現在您提到的是主治醫師那有些是住院醫師之前有住院醫師的案子住院醫師在受訓過程中其實他除了原有的技術的訓練有相關的手冊要求他學到什麼程度之外我相信住院醫師在受訓過程中他本身在一定應該有的不論是法律遵循或者是人格操守尤其最重要的是醫學倫理的部分他的\n訓練醫院我們講的教學訓練醫院本來也包含具有這樣的責任而且教學訓練醫院在這個過程中他也具有這個責任來為後續能夠去參與相關專科醫師這個考試應該還有一定程度的把關\n當然大家最不能接受的就是這位性侵的住院醫師爆發才發現原來理事長也是他當時的主任嘛所以他也完成了他的住院醫師訓練最後也通過了專科醫師考試所以我是想在這邊請衛福部研擬一下你們不能給人家責任可是你們又不去究責畢竟你賦予他的還真的是個蠻大的責任啊你也知道錄取率\n可能從90%到100%不等啦 不等不等嘛 不等 所以有人還是會被刷掉的嘛所以你要怎麼樣透過你賦予他這個權利去加強對我們學會的管理因為你現在看起來是沒法源 你管不了他\n好跟委员报告谢谢委员关心这件事情我们医事司正在研拟就是说当然这一次的事件比较受瞩目是因为是著名的顶尖医院然后又是这个主管级的医师那所以会受到比较多的更多的关注不过以医事司这边我们所管理的医事人员来讲\n會發生這一類的事件不單純只是醫師不單純只是婦產科醫師所以我們正在全面盤點因為相關的法規可能會散在各醫事人員的法規裡頭甚至有些醫事人員他也可能都只是他原來的這個所謂職業倫理那一塊\n那现在我们正在跟医师施政在整理盘点就是七月份会有一个一轮的会议那在那之前我们会有一些草案或者是一些拟定家长对学会的观点对学会以及我们的专级医疗人员这些都是考过国家考试的这些人员他应该有后续的一些除了现有的性平三法之外有没有在专业上面再刻意其他的责任\n應該是說考過國家考試之後其實還有一個不管是專科醫師審查他是沒有國家考試但你已經賦予他這個權利了所以你應該要也去限制他因為這個沒有人可以接受啦早上年輕的醫師傳簡訊給我他是寫說\n大家是敢怒不敢言因為他們就是被他審查的人其實跟委員有報告就是說包含其實我們之前有另外一個案子是別的專科醫師那也是性騷或性騷跟性侵成立我們在衛福部就特別跟相關的團體提到這樣子的醫師如果他\n以他的名義或者是他有參與的活動是跟我們衛福部去申請經費的話基本上我們是不支持的但現在偏偏是遇到我們審查的頭他也試射這件事情所以對於專業學會內部這邊的選擇我們會來要求要特別注意再來剛剛真的蠻多衛委員\n已經問過了啦但我是想知道說因為你之前呢比如說計程車司機兒童工作者教師通通都要因為涉案被停止醫師剛講到權力不對等尤其是這兩個案例有的兩個都非常明顯都是權力不對等不管是他跟同人之間同儕之間或者是有的是醫師跟病患之間\n這是我之前有看了很多很欣賞您的發言啊在台中市教師疑似全市欣賞的時候您就說得非常的好沒有人想要列屋可是台中市政府4月以來該停聘的不停聘該擴大調查沒有積極調查讓台中市的父母四處詢問那接下來還有一個元能會主委的事件其實你也都記憶猶新嗎\n當時對全市性騷擾的態度非常明確也堅定就是立即停聘停止剛剛有提到不管是這兩個案例有一個人是繼續上班兩個人應該都繼續上班吧所以其實如果依照現在的我們已經修訂過的性騷擾防治法13條之一事實上機關這邊就可以停止他的原來的工作那這邊是不是要請院長回答\n當時這個教授繼續上班但是修法後三條之一是可以停止他現有的對 因為他有教師的身份他有教師的身份所以當他涉案的時候就應該要予以停職\n當時候他涉案的時候是主任不過我們成立調查的時候他已經不是主任了所以這個就是對於陳姓醫師那對於那個黃姓醫師事實上他涉案以後已經被我們的姓評委員不好意思院長停職好像跟不是主任的定義差很多\n事實上他的他之所以能夠做那些很多都是因為他是主任那事實上我們已經判定以後我們甚至已經禁止他去接觸所有的你是說判定還是說涉案開始因為如果他是教師他是因為教師因此擁有醫師這個身份對\n對 那他教師那邊就應該要馬上停止教師的部分比醫院慢一點因為教師部分還要到學校的性評委員我是說我們醫院的性評委員調查以後我們就禁止他接受甚至只要他在辦公室裡面他的門都要打開的這個事實上是我們有在婦產部裡面\n那至於黃姓14他涉案以後雖然沒有停止但是我們已經禁止他獨自看病患所以有應該是說雖然沒有真正的停止但是我們有就是包括組織醫師或包括甚至在婦產部裡面他們也有規定只要他在門診裡面門都要打開\n沒關係 因為剛剛這個次長有很多答覆所以大家普遍 我是反映大家的心聲啦希望您也可以在這方面從您以前的發言看起來是重視的可以做更多的著力好嗎謝謝 我們就是希望可以亡羊補老 快點\n好 謝謝那對不起最後一個問題最後一個問題問次長這個是最近也是許多男性還有泌尿科醫師會重視的前總統拜登他自己揭露說他有罹患攝護腺癌而且是末期那我們都知道反正末期他的餘命真的非常的短後來我們來回顧台灣的數據攝護腺癌是唯一在十大癌症中持續發生率繼續往上升而且在男性這邊標準化發生率是排名的第三名\n後來我去跟泌尿科醫學會調資料大部分發現也真的是末期那晚期發現餘命可能僅有5年那尤其是他有家族史發生機率又是一般人的10倍以上我今天想探討的是泌尿科醫學會他們在這邊希望我可以幫忙發聲因為我們的這個篩檢可不可以納入他們如果\n不管是他們乖乖的去做癌篩乖乖的去做成人健檢去做老人健檢或是勞工健檢都沒有包含這個項目就是PSA的抽血除非是他花錢來做自費的健檢我們也有去回顧了一些文獻像英國他是認為有可以有其必要性有其重要性那美國的預防醫學部認為可以兩年篩檢一次這邊是不是可以請衛福部研議\n可不可以納入5I篩檢或是其他的謝謝委員指導這件事情因為想我們進入到高齡化社會之後那因為這是一個跟男性年齡增長有關的一個疾病所以他是不是評估納入篩檢那他的這個預算的狀況怎麼處理以及篩檢的這個效益到底如何這個部分是不是容我跟到時候病人可以學會跟我們的國健署\n是 那我具體建議 泌尿科學會給我的建議是50歲以上希望每兩年可以篩檢一次PSA主席你覺得呢好 主席一直看我 不能再問他們是傾向用PSA我們再來跟學會這邊討論啦學會這邊 因為他還出他有包含就是所謂的他的效益以及我們應該要的預算上怎麼樣編列跟落實這個部分讓我們跟學會再來討論好 謝謝 那就一個月謝謝 謝謝次長 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.024 --> 00:14.130\n謝謝主席謝謝委員還有各位官員我們請林靜儀次長\n\n00:26.664 --> 00:56.007\n委員好次長您辛苦了當然很多新聞早上已經露出了所以我這邊紛紛的獲得了一些資訊那這個我也非常的震驚因為這是昨天晚上的新聞我不知道您是否有看到有我們之前有發現但您身為長久以來都是性評委員會的委員也是許多女醫師的偶像也很會經營社群我相信像我的流量可能不如您但是我已經收到很多女醫師很在意這件事您那邊應該也更多啦\n\n00:57.668 --> 01:02.751\n我是因為太忙所以我沒有去翻會訊但是今天早上記者來問我我才發現說1月\n\n01:05.461 --> 01:32.420\n部長在這邊承諾說希望他們要改選理事長結果4月他大剌剌的發會訊說他身體康復了他要付出他要為婦產科學院貢獻另外他要帶30位年輕的醫師到日本去做交流還有做一些presentation等等的我不知道您是否他們應該快出發我不知道這是幾月幾號學會對學會理事長他現在要出國開會啦他現在要出國開會\n\n01:34.662 --> 02:00.524\n但因為我有注意到其實次長之前對於權勢不對等的這種性騷你有做蠻多發文的我當然也驚呆了因為他放出來的這個list說有30位非常優秀的年輕醫師他要帶著他們去交流但你也可想而知我們也平常都開了很多國際學會嘛在這些場合會有蠻多權勢不對等是不是會有點擔心也想知道您\n\n02:01.545 --> 02:22.415\n的相關處置後續會不會跟部長繼續追這件事情我想委員跟我們都在同一個學會那這樣的事情的發生事實上對於專業的形象是非常非常大的傷害那事實上我相信從今年應該是一月份一直到現在部長跟我其實都持續有跟學會這邊做溝通就是說\n\n02:23.335 --> 02:52.339\n也希望學會這邊當然我們還是對於事件的調查以及後續法律上所賦予的相關的權利這個我們尊重但是我們也希望學會要能夠理解這是一個非常重要的影響到醫師生育而且它在醫學倫理上面甚至對於我們年輕醫師是一個很大的傷害的事件那我們也不斷的跟學會這邊溝通希望學會可以了解跟注意到不論是在性別的敏感度上面或社會的敏感度上面\n\n02:52.739 --> 03:13.260\n要有更積極的處理因為記者揭露了這個會訊還有他們即將出國您是否今明兩天也會做一些動作其實我上禮拜就一直都在跟學會這邊說請他們要能夠注意到這件事情大家對於整個因為包含這整個事件的受害者也是我們自己的\n\n03:14.201 --> 03:37.540\n成員是我們自己的會員所以我想請他們要能夠注意到相關我想在學會的甚至是理見士也要能夠理解這件事情不單純只是理事長自己一個人的事情是整個醫界整個婦產科界以及我們在前輩對於我們年輕醫師應有的詮釋上不應該的行為以及應該有的尊重我還是強調我希望學會這邊能夠重視\n\n03:39.902 --> 04:07.464\n那當然這邊也是早上一些年輕醫師給我的建議因為你們之前有說你們也應該要親自到理監事會去溝通他們已經隔了四五個月沒有任何的動作但之前曾經衛福部有回函其他的委員說第一因為是人民團體你們比較難去做管理這是他們自治選出來的第二你們認為說可以先從提升醫師的自律開始\n\n04:07.944 --> 04:22.530\n但這件事一般人觀感好像也蠻難接受的因為殺人放火然後跑來說我們要來提升法治的教育這件事已經蠻嚴重的可是你現在是提升醫師的自律如果提升醫生自律有效你們可能十年前就這樣做了嘛\n\n04:23.690 --> 04:48.581\n年輕醫師他們覺得台大醫院已經2025年1月25就已經在他們的官網上發布說經訪查相關人員並釐清事情始末後確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重那他們早上說問我說這是另類的台灣之光嗎他還代表我們全國的婦產科醫師到國外去跟人家做交流\n\n04:49.281 --> 05:01.052\n因此他們有想到了一個方法在這邊也想請次長聽聽看因為你們常常說衛福部沒有權利去管人民團體但是衛福部卻把專科醫師的甄選制度交給了醫學會大家我們都考過嘛我們要經過很嚴格的口試\n\n05:11.991 --> 05:29.843\n比試或是面試還會問你醫學倫理相關的問題結果現在掌管全國所有醫師到底誰可以拿到專科醫師執照的人是台大醫院網站上認證確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重這不是很荒謬嗎是\n\n05:31.064 --> 05:50.059\n所以這是一個我還是再一次強調醫師這邊我們不論是現有醫師雖然是醫師身份但是他也受性平三法的管理他在工作職場上面屬於性平法性平工作法他如果是學校附屬他又是在性平性平等教育法再來性別性騷擾防治法醫師一樣受到這個規範\n\n05:51.480 --> 06:11.498\n所以第一個事情當然在現有的法治的狀況之下我們希望各機關各要能夠去落實原來在性平三法中對於受害者的保障以及相關的性平調查那性平調查之後剛剛我想委員也指導了他不論是在醫師法相關懲戒的辦法裡面事實上是可以更積極來做處理這是第一個部分第二個部分其實我想委員也知道在\n\n06:13.079 --> 06:35.924\n這個像這個案子因為現在您提到的是主治醫師那有些是住院醫師之前有住院醫師的案子住院醫師在受訓過程中其實他除了原有的技術的訓練有相關的手冊要求他學到什麼程度之外我相信住院醫師在受訓過程中他本身在一定應該有的不論是法律遵循或者是人格操守尤其最重要的是醫學倫理的部分他的\n\n06:37.264 --> 06:46.208\n訓練醫院我們講的教學訓練醫院本來也包含具有這樣的責任而且教學訓練醫院在這個過程中他也具有這個責任來為後續能夠去參與相關專科醫師這個考試應該還有一定程度的把關\n\n06:52.191 --> 07:16.207\n當然大家最不能接受的就是這位性侵的住院醫師爆發才發現原來理事長也是他當時的主任嘛所以他也完成了他的住院醫師訓練最後也通過了專科醫師考試所以我是想在這邊請衛福部研擬一下你們不能給人家責任可是你們又不去究責畢竟你賦予他的還真的是個蠻大的責任啊你也知道錄取率\n\n07:17.828 --> 07:21.850\n可能從90%到100%不等啦不等不等嘛不等所以有人還是會被刷掉的嘛所以你要怎麼樣透過你賦予他這個權利去加強對我們學會的管理因為你現在看起來是沒法源你管不了他\n\n07:35.497 --> 07:53.013\n好跟委员报告谢谢委员关心这件事情我们医事司正在研拟就是说当然这一次的事件比较受瞩目是因为是著名的顶尖医院然后又是这个主管级的医师那所以会受到比较多的更多的关注不过以医事司这边我们所管理的医事人员来讲\n\n07:53.834 --> 08:06.994\n會發生這一類的事件不單純只是醫師不單純只是婦產科醫師所以我們正在全面盤點因為相關的法規可能會散在各醫事人員的法規裡頭甚至有些醫事人員他也可能都只是他原來的這個所謂職業倫理那一塊\n\n08:08.817 --> 08:30.967\n那现在我们正在跟医师施政在整理盘点就是七月份会有一个一轮的会议那在那之前我们会有一些草案或者是一些拟定家长对学会的观点对学会以及我们的专级医疗人员这些都是考过国家考试的这些人员他应该有后续的一些除了现有的性平三法之外有没有在专业上面再刻意其他的责任\n\n08:31.467 --> 08:45.842\n應該是說考過國家考試之後其實還有一個不管是專科醫師審查他是沒有國家考試但你已經賦予他這個權利了所以你應該要也去限制他因為這個沒有人可以接受啦早上年輕的醫師傳簡訊給我他是寫說\n\n08:48.224 --> 09:05.862\n大家是敢怒不敢言因為他們就是被他審查的人其實跟委員有報告就是說包含其實我們之前有另外一個案子是別的專科醫師那也是性騷或性騷跟性侵成立我們在衛福部就特別跟相關的團體提到這樣子的醫師如果他\n\n09:06.923 --> 09:20.299\n以他的名義或者是他有參與的活動是跟我們衛福部去申請經費的話基本上我們是不支持的但現在偏偏是遇到我們審查的頭他也試射這件事情所以對於專業學會內部這邊的選擇我們會來要求要特別注意再來剛剛真的蠻多衛委員\n\n09:26.866 --> 09:50.836\n已經問過了啦但我是想知道說因為你之前呢比如說計程車司機兒童工作者教師通通都要因為涉案被停止醫師剛講到權力不對等尤其是這兩個案例有的兩個都非常明顯都是權力不對等不管是他跟同人之間同儕之間或者是有的是醫師跟病患之間\n\n09:52.478 --> 10:15.727\n這是我之前有看了很多很欣賞您的發言啊在台中市教師疑似全市欣賞的時候您就說得非常的好沒有人想要列屋可是台中市政府4月以來該停聘的不停聘該擴大調查沒有積極調查讓台中市的父母四處詢問那接下來還有一個元能會主委的事件其實你也都記憶猶新嗎\n\n10:18.649 --> 10:40.561\n當時對全市性騷擾的態度非常明確也堅定就是立即停聘停止剛剛有提到不管是這兩個案例有一個人是繼續上班兩個人應該都繼續上班吧所以其實如果依照現在的我們已經修訂過的性騷擾防治法13條之一事實上機關這邊就可以停止他的原來的工作那這邊是不是要請院長回答\n\n10:44.701 --> 10:54.195\n當時這個教授繼續上班但是修法後三條之一是可以停止他現有的對因為他有教師的身份他有教師的身份所以當他涉案的時候就應該要予以停職\n\n10:57.288 --> 11:18.255\n當時候他涉案的時候是主任不過我們成立調查的時候他已經不是主任了所以這個就是對於陳姓醫師那對於那個黃姓醫師事實上他涉案以後已經被我們的姓評委員不好意思院長停職好像跟不是主任的定義差很多\n\n11:20.036 --> 11:43.157\n事實上他的他之所以能夠做那些很多都是因為他是主任那事實上我們已經判定以後我們甚至已經禁止他去接觸所有的你是說判定還是說涉案開始因為如果他是教師他是因為教師因此擁有醫師這個身份對\n\n11:45.278 --> 12:05.166\n對那他教師那邊就應該要馬上停止教師的部分比醫院慢一點因為教師部分還要到學校的性評委員我是說我們醫院的性評委員調查以後我們就禁止他接受甚至只要他在辦公室裡面他的門都要打開的這個事實上是我們有在婦產部裡面\n\n12:08.147 --> 12:32.178\n那至於黃姓14他涉案以後雖然沒有停止但是我們已經禁止他獨自看病患所以有應該是說雖然沒有真正的停止但是我們有就是包括組織醫師或包括甚至在婦產部裡面他們也有規定只要他在門診裡面門都要打開\n\n12:33.438 --> 12:49.110\n沒關係因為剛剛這個次長有很多答覆所以大家普遍我是反映大家的心聲啦希望您也可以在這方面從您以前的發言看起來是重視的可以做更多的著力好嗎謝謝我們就是希望可以亡羊補老快點\n\n12:50.291 --> 13:19.297\n好謝謝那對不起最後一個問題最後一個問題問次長這個是最近也是許多男性還有泌尿科醫師會重視的前總統拜登他自己揭露說他有罹患攝護腺癌而且是末期那我們都知道反正末期他的餘命真的非常的短後來我們來回顧台灣的數據攝護腺癌是唯一在十大癌症中持續發生率繼續往上升而且在男性這邊標準化發生率是排名的第三名\n\n13:20.157 --> 13:42.077\n後來我去跟泌尿科醫學會調資料大部分發現也真的是末期那晚期發現餘命可能僅有5年那尤其是他有家族史發生機率又是一般人的10倍以上我今天想探討的是泌尿科醫學會他們在這邊希望我可以幫忙發聲因為我們的這個篩檢可不可以納入他們如果\n\n13:42.737 --> 14:09.528\n不管是他們乖乖的去做癌篩乖乖的去做成人健檢去做老人健檢或是勞工健檢都沒有包含這個項目就是PSA的抽血除非是他花錢來做自費的健檢我們也有去回顧了一些文獻像英國他是認為有可以有其必要性有其重要性那美國的預防醫學部認為可以兩年篩檢一次這邊是不是可以請衛福部研議\n\n14:10.868 --> 14:35.056\n可不可以納入5I篩檢或是其他的謝謝委員指導這件事情因為想我們進入到高齡化社會之後那因為這是一個跟男性年齡增長有關的一個疾病所以他是不是評估納入篩檢那他的這個預算的狀況怎麼處理以及篩檢的這個效益到底如何這個部分是不是容我跟到時候病人可以學會跟我們的國健署\n\n14:35.476 --> 15:03.061\n是那我具體建議泌尿科學會給我的建議是50歲以上希望每兩年可以篩檢一次PSA主席你覺得呢好主席一直看我不能再問他們是傾向用PSA我們再來跟學會這邊討論啦學會這邊因為他還出他有包含就是所謂的他的效益以及我們應該要的預算上怎麼樣編列跟落實這個部分讓我們跟學會再來討論好謝謝那就一個月謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.024,"end":14.13,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝委員還有各位官員 我們請林靜儀次長"},{"start":26.664,"end":56.007,"text":"委員好 次長您辛苦了當然很多新聞早上已經露出了所以我這邊紛紛的獲得了一些資訊那這個我也非常的震驚因為這是昨天晚上的新聞我不知道您是否有看到有 我們之前有發現但您身為長久以來都是性評委員會的委員也是許多女醫師的偶像也很會經營社群我相信像我的流量可能不如您但是我已經收到很多女醫師很在意這件事您那邊應該也更多啦"},{"start":57.668,"end":62.751,"text":"我是因為太忙所以我沒有去翻會訊但是今天早上記者來問我我才發現說1月"},{"start":65.461,"end":92.42,"text":"部長在這邊承諾說希望他們要改選理事長結果4月他大剌剌的發會訊說他身體康復了他要付出他要為婦產科學院貢獻另外他要帶30位年輕的醫師到日本去做交流還有做一些presentation等等的我不知道您是否他們應該快出發我不知道這是幾月幾號學會對學會理事長他現在要出國開會啦他現在要出國開會"},{"start":94.662,"end":120.524,"text":"但因為我有注意到其實次長之前對於權勢不對等的這種性騷你有做蠻多發文的我當然也驚呆了因為他放出來的這個list說有30位非常優秀的年輕醫師他要帶著他們去交流但你也可想而知我們也平常都開了很多國際學會嘛在這些場合會有蠻多權勢不對等是不是會有點擔心也想知道您"},{"start":121.545,"end":142.415,"text":"的相關處置後續會不會跟部長繼續追這件事情我想委員跟我們都在同一個學會那這樣的事情的發生事實上對於專業的形象是非常非常大的傷害那事實上我相信從今年應該是一月份一直到現在部長跟我其實都持續有跟學會這邊做溝通就是說"},{"start":143.335,"end":172.339,"text":"也希望學會這邊當然我們還是對於事件的調查以及後續法律上所賦予的相關的權利這個我們尊重但是我們也希望學會要能夠理解這是一個非常重要的影響到醫師生育而且它在醫學倫理上面甚至對於我們年輕醫師是一個很大的傷害的事件那我們也不斷的跟學會這邊溝通希望學會可以了解跟注意到不論是在性別的敏感度上面或社會的敏感度上面"},{"start":172.739,"end":193.26,"text":"要有更積極的處理因為記者揭露了這個會訊還有他們即將出國您是否今明兩天也會做一些動作其實我上禮拜就一直都在跟學會這邊說請他們要能夠注意到這件事情大家對於整個因為包含這整個事件的受害者也是我們自己的"},{"start":194.201,"end":217.54,"text":"成員是我們自己的會員所以我想請他們要能夠注意到相關我想在學會的甚至是理見士也要能夠理解這件事情不單純只是理事長自己一個人的事情是整個醫界整個婦產科界以及我們在前輩對於我們年輕醫師應有的詮釋上不應該的行為以及應該有的尊重我還是強調我希望學會這邊能夠重視"},{"start":219.902,"end":247.464,"text":"那當然這邊也是早上一些年輕醫師給我的建議因為你們之前有說你們也應該要親自到理監事會去溝通他們已經隔了四五個月沒有任何的動作但之前曾經衛福部有回函其他的委員說第一因為是人民團體你們比較難去做管理這是他們自治選出來的第二你們認為說可以先從提升醫師的自律開始"},{"start":247.944,"end":262.53,"text":"但這件事一般人觀感好像也蠻難接受的因為殺人放火然後跑來說我們要來提升法治的教育這件事已經蠻嚴重的可是你現在是提升醫師的自律如果提升醫生自律有效你們可能十年前就這樣做了嘛"},{"start":263.69,"end":288.581,"text":"年輕醫師他們覺得台大醫院已經2025年1月25就已經在他們的官網上發布說經訪查相關人員並釐清事情始末後確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重那他們早上說問我說這是另類的台灣之光嗎他還代表我們全國的婦產科醫師到國外去跟人家做交流"},{"start":289.281,"end":301.052,"text":"因此他們有想到了一個方法在這邊也想請次長聽聽看因為你們常常說衛福部沒有權利去管人民團體但是衛福部卻把專科醫師的甄選制度交給了醫學會大家我們都考過嘛我們要經過很嚴格的口試"},{"start":311.991,"end":329.843,"text":"比試或是面試還會問你醫學倫理相關的問題結果現在掌管全國所有醫師到底誰可以拿到專科醫師執照的人是台大醫院網站上認證確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重這不是很荒謬嗎是"},{"start":331.064,"end":350.059,"text":"所以這是一個我還是再一次強調醫師這邊我們不論是現有醫師雖然是醫師身份但是他也受性平三法的管理他在工作職場上面屬於性平法性平工作法他如果是學校附屬他又是在性平性平等教育法再來性別性騷擾防治法醫師一樣受到這個規範"},{"start":351.48,"end":371.498,"text":"所以第一個事情當然在現有的法治的狀況之下我們希望各機關各要能夠去落實原來在性平三法中對於受害者的保障以及相關的性平調查那性平調查之後剛剛我想委員也指導了他不論是在醫師法相關懲戒的辦法裡面事實上是可以更積極來做處理這是第一個部分第二個部分其實我想委員也知道在"},{"start":373.079,"end":395.924,"text":"這個像這個案子因為現在您提到的是主治醫師那有些是住院醫師之前有住院醫師的案子住院醫師在受訓過程中其實他除了原有的技術的訓練有相關的手冊要求他學到什麼程度之外我相信住院醫師在受訓過程中他本身在一定應該有的不論是法律遵循或者是人格操守尤其最重要的是醫學倫理的部分他的"},{"start":397.264,"end":406.208,"text":"訓練醫院我們講的教學訓練醫院本來也包含具有這樣的責任而且教學訓練醫院在這個過程中他也具有這個責任來為後續能夠去參與相關專科醫師這個考試應該還有一定程度的把關"},{"start":412.191,"end":436.207,"text":"當然大家最不能接受的就是這位性侵的住院醫師爆發才發現原來理事長也是他當時的主任嘛所以他也完成了他的住院醫師訓練最後也通過了專科醫師考試所以我是想在這邊請衛福部研擬一下你們不能給人家責任可是你們又不去究責畢竟你賦予他的還真的是個蠻大的責任啊你也知道錄取率"},{"start":437.828,"end":441.85,"text":"可能從90%到100%不等啦 不等不等嘛 不等 所以有人還是會被刷掉的嘛所以你要怎麼樣透過你賦予他這個權利去加強對我們學會的管理因為你現在看起來是沒法源 你管不了他"},{"start":455.497,"end":473.013,"text":"好跟委员报告谢谢委员关心这件事情我们医事司正在研拟就是说当然这一次的事件比较受瞩目是因为是著名的顶尖医院然后又是这个主管级的医师那所以会受到比较多的更多的关注不过以医事司这边我们所管理的医事人员来讲"},{"start":473.834,"end":486.994,"text":"會發生這一類的事件不單純只是醫師不單純只是婦產科醫師所以我們正在全面盤點因為相關的法規可能會散在各醫事人員的法規裡頭甚至有些醫事人員他也可能都只是他原來的這個所謂職業倫理那一塊"},{"start":488.817,"end":510.967,"text":"那现在我们正在跟医师施政在整理盘点就是七月份会有一个一轮的会议那在那之前我们会有一些草案或者是一些拟定家长对学会的观点对学会以及我们的专级医疗人员这些都是考过国家考试的这些人员他应该有后续的一些除了现有的性平三法之外有没有在专业上面再刻意其他的责任"},{"start":511.467,"end":525.842,"text":"應該是說考過國家考試之後其實還有一個不管是專科醫師審查他是沒有國家考試但你已經賦予他這個權利了所以你應該要也去限制他因為這個沒有人可以接受啦早上年輕的醫師傳簡訊給我他是寫說"},{"start":528.224,"end":545.862,"text":"大家是敢怒不敢言因為他們就是被他審查的人其實跟委員有報告就是說包含其實我們之前有另外一個案子是別的專科醫師那也是性騷或性騷跟性侵成立我們在衛福部就特別跟相關的團體提到這樣子的醫師如果他"},{"start":546.923,"end":560.299,"text":"以他的名義或者是他有參與的活動是跟我們衛福部去申請經費的話基本上我們是不支持的但現在偏偏是遇到我們審查的頭他也試射這件事情所以對於專業學會內部這邊的選擇我們會來要求要特別注意再來剛剛真的蠻多衛委員"},{"start":566.866,"end":590.836,"text":"已經問過了啦但我是想知道說因為你之前呢比如說計程車司機兒童工作者教師通通都要因為涉案被停止醫師剛講到權力不對等尤其是這兩個案例有的兩個都非常明顯都是權力不對等不管是他跟同人之間同儕之間或者是有的是醫師跟病患之間"},{"start":592.478,"end":615.727,"text":"這是我之前有看了很多很欣賞您的發言啊在台中市教師疑似全市欣賞的時候您就說得非常的好沒有人想要列屋可是台中市政府4月以來該停聘的不停聘該擴大調查沒有積極調查讓台中市的父母四處詢問那接下來還有一個元能會主委的事件其實你也都記憶猶新嗎"},{"start":618.649,"end":640.561,"text":"當時對全市性騷擾的態度非常明確也堅定就是立即停聘停止剛剛有提到不管是這兩個案例有一個人是繼續上班兩個人應該都繼續上班吧所以其實如果依照現在的我們已經修訂過的性騷擾防治法13條之一事實上機關這邊就可以停止他的原來的工作那這邊是不是要請院長回答"},{"start":644.701,"end":654.195,"text":"當時這個教授繼續上班但是修法後三條之一是可以停止他現有的對 因為他有教師的身份他有教師的身份所以當他涉案的時候就應該要予以停職"},{"start":657.288,"end":678.255,"text":"當時候他涉案的時候是主任不過我們成立調查的時候他已經不是主任了所以這個就是對於陳姓醫師那對於那個黃姓醫師事實上他涉案以後已經被我們的姓評委員不好意思院長停職好像跟不是主任的定義差很多"},{"start":680.036,"end":703.157,"text":"事實上他的他之所以能夠做那些很多都是因為他是主任那事實上我們已經判定以後我們甚至已經禁止他去接觸所有的你是說判定還是說涉案開始因為如果他是教師他是因為教師因此擁有醫師這個身份對"},{"start":705.278,"end":725.166,"text":"對 那他教師那邊就應該要馬上停止教師的部分比醫院慢一點因為教師部分還要到學校的性評委員我是說我們醫院的性評委員調查以後我們就禁止他接受甚至只要他在辦公室裡面他的門都要打開的這個事實上是我們有在婦產部裡面"},{"start":728.147,"end":752.178,"text":"那至於黃姓14他涉案以後雖然沒有停止但是我們已經禁止他獨自看病患所以有應該是說雖然沒有真正的停止但是我們有就是包括組織醫師或包括甚至在婦產部裡面他們也有規定只要他在門診裡面門都要打開"},{"start":753.438,"end":769.11,"text":"沒關係 因為剛剛這個次長有很多答覆所以大家普遍 我是反映大家的心聲啦希望您也可以在這方面從您以前的發言看起來是重視的可以做更多的著力好嗎謝謝 我們就是希望可以亡羊補老 快點"},{"start":770.291,"end":799.297,"text":"好 謝謝那對不起最後一個問題最後一個問題問次長這個是最近也是許多男性還有泌尿科醫師會重視的前總統拜登他自己揭露說他有罹患攝護腺癌而且是末期那我們都知道反正末期他的餘命真的非常的短後來我們來回顧台灣的數據攝護腺癌是唯一在十大癌症中持續發生率繼續往上升而且在男性這邊標準化發生率是排名的第三名"},{"start":800.157,"end":822.077,"text":"後來我去跟泌尿科醫學會調資料大部分發現也真的是末期那晚期發現餘命可能僅有5年那尤其是他有家族史發生機率又是一般人的10倍以上我今天想探討的是泌尿科醫學會他們在這邊希望我可以幫忙發聲因為我們的這個篩檢可不可以納入他們如果"},{"start":822.737,"end":849.528,"text":"不管是他們乖乖的去做癌篩乖乖的去做成人健檢去做老人健檢或是勞工健檢都沒有包含這個項目就是PSA的抽血除非是他花錢來做自費的健檢我們也有去回顧了一些文獻像英國他是認為有可以有其必要性有其重要性那美國的預防醫學部認為可以兩年篩檢一次這邊是不是可以請衛福部研議"},{"start":850.868,"end":875.056,"text":"可不可以納入5I篩檢或是其他的謝謝委員指導這件事情因為想我們進入到高齡化社會之後那因為這是一個跟男性年齡增長有關的一個疾病所以他是不是評估納入篩檢那他的這個預算的狀況怎麼處理以及篩檢的這個效益到底如何這個部分是不是容我跟到時候病人可以學會跟我們的國健署"},{"start":875.476,"end":903.061,"text":"是 那我具體建議 泌尿科學會給我的建議是50歲以上希望每兩年可以篩檢一次PSA主席你覺得呢好 主席一直看我 不能再問他們是傾向用PSA我們再來跟學會這邊討論啦學會這邊 因為他還出他有包含就是所謂的他的效益以及我們應該要的預算上怎麼樣編列跟落實這個部分讓我們跟學會再來討論好 謝謝 那就一個月謝謝 謝謝次長 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":931,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（12時3分）謝謝主席、謝謝委員及各位官員，我們請林靜儀次長。"],["林次長靜儀：委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：次長，你辛苦了。早上有許多新聞被揭露出來，而我這邊也紛紛獲得許多的資訊，當然我也感到非常的震驚，這是昨天晚上的新聞，不知你是否有看到？"],["林次長靜儀：有，我們之前有發現。"],["陳委員菁徽：長久以來你都身為性平委員會的委員，也是許多女醫師的偶像、也很會經營社群媒體，相信像我的流量就可能不如你，但是我已經收到許多女醫師在意這件事的訊息，而你那邊應該也收到更多了。我是因為太忙並沒有去翻會訊，但是今天早上記者來問之後我才發現，原本部長1月在這邊承諾希望他們改選理事長，結果他在4月就大喇喇地發會訊說他身體康復了、他要復出、他要為婦產科學會做出貢獻，另外，他還要帶30位年輕醫師到日本進行交流等等。他們應該快要出發了，我不知道是幾月幾號……"],["林次長靜儀：學會？"],["陳委員菁徽：對，學會理事長，他現在要出國開會、他現在要出國開會。因為我注意到次長之前對權勢不對等的性騷做了滿多的發文……"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：當然我也驚呆了，因為他放出的list說要帶30位非常優秀的年輕醫師去交流，我們平常也都參加過許多國際學會，可想而知，在這些場合會有滿多權勢不對等的狀況，是不是會有點擔心？我想知道你的相關處置，後續會不會與部長追這件事情？"],["林次長靜儀：委員與我們都在同一個學會，發生這樣的事情，事實上，對於專業形象是非常非常大的傷害。事實上，從今年1月份一直到現在，部長與我都持續與學會進行溝通，當然我們還是對於事件的調查及後續法律賦予的相關權利都予以尊重，但是我們也希望學會能夠理解，這是非常重要的事情，不只會影響到醫師的聲譽，而且在醫學倫理上，甚至對年輕醫師是一個很大的傷害事件。我們也不斷的與學會溝通，希望學會能夠了解及注意，無論是在性別敏感度上或社會敏感度上都要有更積極的處理。"],["陳委員菁徽：因為記者揭露了這個會訊，並得知他們即將出國，今明兩天你是否也會做一些動作呢？"],["林次長靜儀：其實上個禮拜我就一直告訴學會，請他們能夠注意這件事情，因為這整個事件的受害者也是我們自己的成員、也是我們自己的會員。"],["陳委員菁徽：是。"],["林次長靜儀：因此，我想請他們能夠注意，甚至是學會的理監事也都要能夠理解，這件事不單純只是理事長自己一個人的事情，也是整個醫界、整個婦產科界、以及前輩對於年輕醫師在權勢上不應該有的行為及應該有的尊重。我還是要再次強調，希望學會這邊能夠重視。"],["陳委員菁徽：這邊有早上一些年輕醫師給我的建議，因為你們之前說過你們應該親自去理監事會那邊溝通，但是他們已經隔了4、5個月都沒有任何動作，根據之前衛福部曾經回函其他委員表示：第一，因為是人民團體，你們比較難做管理，因為是他們自治選出來的；第二，你們認為可以先從提升醫師的自律開始。但一般人在觀感上對這件事好像也滿難接受，就像殺人放火之後再說要提升法治的教育，這件事已經滿嚴重了，你現在才說要提升醫師的自律，如果提升醫師的自律有效，你們可能在10年前就這樣做了嘛！年輕醫師認為，臺大醫院於2025年1月25日就在官網上發布，經訪查相關人員並釐清事情始末後，確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重，所以他們早上問我，這是另類的臺灣之光嗎？他還要代表全國的婦產科醫師去國外與人家交流耶！","因此，他們想到了一個方法，在這邊也想請次長聽聽看！因為你們常常說衛福部沒有權力去管人民團體，但是衛福部卻把專科醫師的徵選制度交給了醫學會，我們也都考過嘛！必須經過嚴格的口試、筆試或面試，還會詢問醫學倫理相關的問題，結果現在掌管全國所有醫師到底誰可以拿到專科醫師執照的是臺大醫院網站上確認性騷擾事件成立且情節嚴重的人，這不是很荒謬嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：是，我還是要再次強調，醫師雖然是醫師身分，但他也受到性平三法的管理，在工作職場上是屬於性平工作法，如果是學校附屬醫院則是屬於性別平等教育法，再來是性騷擾防治法，醫師一樣受到這個規範。因此，第一件事情，在現有的法治狀況之下，我們希望各機關（構）能夠落實原來在性平三法中對於受害者的保障以及相關的性平調查；在性平調查之後，剛剛委員也指導了，無論是在醫師法等相關的懲戒辦法中，事實上是可以更積極的處理，這是第一個部分。","第二個部分，其實我想委員也知道，現在這個案子已經提到是主治醫師，不過，也有可能會是住院醫師，譬如之前有住院醫師的案子，然而，在住院醫師的受訓過程中，除了原有的技術訓練有相關手冊要求學到什麼程度之外，我相信在住院醫師的受訓過程中，對於他本身應該有的，無論是法律遵循或人格操守，尤其最重要的是醫學倫理的部分，他的教學訓練醫院本來就具有這樣的責任，而且教學訓練醫院在這個過程中也具有這個責任，為後續參與相關專科醫師考試做一定程度的把關。"],["陳委員菁徽：是，但大家最不能接受的是，這位性侵的住院醫師爆發後，才發現原來理事長也是他當時的主任，所以他也完成了他的住院醫師訓練，最後也通過專科醫師考試。所以我想在這邊請衛福部研擬一下，你們不能給人家責任，可是你們又不去究責。畢竟你賦予他的還真的是個蠻大的責任啊！你也知道錄取率可能從90%到100%不等。"],["林次長靜儀：婦產科醫師現在的錄取率還蠻高的。"],["陳委員菁徽：不等嘛！所以有人還是會被刷掉。你要怎麼樣透過你賦予他這個權力去加強對我們學會的管理？因為你現在看起來是沒法源，你管不了他。"],["林次長靜儀：跟委員報告，也謝謝委員關心這件事情，我們醫事司正在研擬，當然這一次的事件比較受矚目是因為是著名的頂尖醫院，然後又是主管級的醫師，所以會受到比較多的關注。不過以醫事司管理的醫事人員來講，會發生這一類事件不單純只是醫師，也不單純只是婦產科醫師。所以我們正在全面盤點，因為相關的法規可能會散在各醫事人員的法規裡頭，甚至有些醫事人員，也可能都指他原來的職業倫理那一塊。現在我們跟醫事司正在整理盤點，7月份會有一個醫倫的會議，在那之前我們會有一些草案或者是一些擬定，就是說……"],["陳委員菁徽：加強對學會的管理。"],["林次長靜儀：對學會以及我們的專技醫療人員，這些都是考過國家考試的，這些人員除了現有的性平三法之外，有沒有在專業上面再課以其他的責任。"],["陳委員菁徽：應該是說考過國家考試之後，其實不管是專科醫師審查，雖然他是沒有國家考試，但你已經賦予他這個權力，所以你應該去限制他，因為這個沒有人可以接受啦！早上年輕的醫師傳簡訊給我，他是寫大家敢怒不敢言。"],["林次長靜儀：我知道。"],["陳委員菁徽：因為他們就是被他審查的人。"],["林次長靜儀：跟委員報告，其實我們之前有另外一個案子，別的專科醫師也是性騷跟性侵成立，我們在衛福部就會特別跟相關的團體提到，這樣子的醫師如果以他的名義或者他有參與的活動是跟我們衛福部申請經費的話，基本上我們是不支持的。"],["陳委員菁徽：但現在偏偏是遇到我們審查的頭也事涉這件事情。"],["林次長靜儀：所以對於專業學會內部的選擇，我們會來要求。"],["陳委員菁徽：對，要請你們特別注意。再來，剛剛真的蠻多位委員已經問過了，但我想知道，因為之前比如說計程車司機、兒少工作者、教師，統統都要因為涉案被停職。剛剛講到醫師權力不對等，尤其是這兩個案例，兩個都非常明顯是權力不對等，不管是他跟同仁的同儕之間，或者是醫師跟病患之間。我之前看了，也很欣賞您的發言，在臺中市教師疑似權勢性騷擾的時候，您就說得非常好，沒有人想要獵巫，可是臺中市政府4月以來，該停聘的不停聘，該擴大調查卻沒有積極調查，讓臺中市的父母四處詢問。接下來還有一個原能會主委的事件，其實你也都記憶猶新，當時對權勢性騷擾的態度非常明確、堅定，就是立即停聘、停職。剛才有提到這兩個案例，有一個人是繼續上班，兩個人應該都繼續上班吧？"],["林次長靜儀：其實如果依照現在我們已經修訂過的性騷擾防治法第十三條之一，事實上機關這一邊就可以停止他原來的工作。"],["陳委員菁徽：這部分是不是要請院長回答？"],["林次長靜儀：當時修法前……"],["陳委員菁徽：當時教授繼續上班，因為……"],["林次長靜儀：但是修法後第十三條之一是可以調離他原來的工作。"],["陳委員菁徽：對，因為他有教師的身份，所以當他涉案的時候就應該予以停職。"],["吳院長明賢：對於陳姓醫師，當時他涉案的時候是主任，不過我們成立調查的時候，他已經不是主任了。對於黃姓醫師，事實上他涉案以後，已經被我們的性平委員會……"],["陳委員菁徽：不好意思，院長，停職好像跟不是主任的定義差很多。"],["吳院長明賢：事實上他之所以能夠做那些，很多都是因為他是主任。經我們判定以後，甚至禁止他去接觸所有的女醫師。"],["陳委員菁徽：你是說判定，還是說涉案開始？因為如果他是教師，他是因為教師因此擁有醫師這個身份嗎？"],["吳院長明賢：對。"],["陳委員菁徽：教師那邊就應該馬上停職。"],["吳院長明賢：教師的部分比醫院慢一點。"],["陳委員菁徽：涉案就要馬上停職。"],["吳院長明賢：因為教師部分還要到學校的性平委員，我是說我們醫院的性平委員調查以後，我們就禁止他接受，甚至只要他在辦公室裡面，他的門都要打開，這個是婦產部的部分。至於黃姓醫師，他涉案以後雖然沒有停職，但是我們已經禁止他獨自看病患，所以應該是說雖然沒有真正的停職，但是包括主治醫師，甚至在婦產部裡面也有規定，只要他在門診裡面，門都要打開。"],["陳委員菁徽：因為剛剛次長有很多答復，所以我是反映大家的心聲啦！從你以前的發言看起來是重視的，希望你在這方面可以做更多的著力好嗎？"],["吳院長明賢：謝謝，我們就是希望可以亡羊補牢。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，謝謝。對不起，最後一個問題問次長，這個是最近，也是許多男性還有泌尿科醫師會重視的。前美國總統拜登自己揭露他有罹患攝護腺癌，而且是末期。我們都知道癌症末期的餘命真的非常短，我們來回顧臺灣的數據，攝護腺癌是唯一在十大癌症中持續發生率繼續往上升，而且在男性這邊標準化發生率是排名第三名。後來我去跟泌尿科學會調資料，大部分發現時也真的是末期。晚期發現，餘命可能僅有五年，尤其是他有家族史，發生機率又是一般人的十倍以上。","我今天想探討的是，泌尿科醫學會他們希望我可以在這邊幫忙發聲，我們的這個篩檢可不可以納入？不管是他們乖乖的去做癌篩、乖乖去做成人健檢、去做老人健檢或是勞工健檢，都沒有包含這個項目，就是PSA的抽血，除非是他花錢來做自費的健檢。我們也有去回顧一些文獻，像英國是認為有其必要性、有其重要性；美國的預防醫學部認為可以兩年篩檢一次。這邊是不是請衛福部研議，可不可以納入五癌篩檢或是其他的抽血？"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員指導這件事情，我們進入高齡化社會之後，因為這是一個跟男性年齡增長有關的疾病，所以是不是評估納入篩檢，這個預算的狀況怎麼處理，以及篩檢的效益到底如何？這個部分是不是容我跟泌尿科醫學會及國健署再來評估。"],["陳委員菁徽：我具體建議，泌尿科醫學會給我的建議是50歲以上，希望每兩年可以篩檢一次PSA。主席你覺得呢？主席一直看我，不能再問了。"],["林次長靜儀：他們是傾向用PSA嗎？我們再來跟學會討論，因為還有包含它的效益以及我們在預算上怎麼編列跟落實，這個部分讓我們跟學會再來討論。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，謝謝，那就一個月。"],["林次長靜儀：好，一個月，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝次長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳菁徽委員，謝謝次長。PSA是專一性非常高的，所以這個是非常有效，當然我是期待納入。","接續我們請陳培瑜委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":138,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-12","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","徐巧芯","盧縣一","黃國昌","劉建國","涂權吉","林淑芬","陳菁徽","陳培瑜","郭昱晴","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","張啓楷","范雲","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","楊曜","賴惠員","葉元之","王育敏","陳冠廷","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","黃捷"],"page_start":43,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部、教育部就「性騷擾防治及外聘督導制度精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145201_00002"}}}