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00:01:12,883\n跟委員報告我想在許多地方他們有詮釋兩樣的互動重點在對等尊嚴要相互尊重而不是說你塞了一個我無法接受的前提這個前提是要消滅中華民國的前提這個前提是要台灣成為中華人民共和國的一部分我想\n\n4\n00:01:13,743 --> 00:01:30,257\n我們無法接受這種政治群體所以主委您認不認同賴總統公私併購說的說法我認同這個他的兩岸政策的主軸就是希望兩岸能夠在對等尊嚴所以說現在公私併購說的說法就是我們兩岸關係現在最新的立場嗎\n\n5\n00:01:36,294 --> 00:01:49,581\n我講他是一個比喻這希望兩岸能夠對等尊嚴相互尊重來開啟任何健康有序的交流那請問一下併購說是不是也意味著賴政府統一統一呢\n\n6\n00:01:53,388 --> 00:02:11,291\n不必過度解讀那請問要怎麼解讀我剛剛說了就是對等尊嚴我們一直呼籲中國大陸一個重要的事情就是政治中華民國的客觀事實存在在針對訪談的時候提出這樣的併勾說的說法那請問我們要怎麼解讀\n\n7\n00:02:12,554 --> 00:02:30,304\n我們的解讀就是兩岸互動要在對等尊嚴相互尊重請問一下剛剛主委已經有提到我看很多委員在提針對這個大陸的我們台灣的藝人在大陸的一些轉發的人就說應該要處罰應該要這個可能違反什麼相關的規定那請問一下\n\n8\n00:02:32,186 --> 00:02:48,263\n賴總統這樣的言論是不是以默許自己可以當作是中國的一部分只是在談價格跟條件這樣有沒有違反你剛剛講的建議委員不要這個過度延伸的解讀我們最主要還是對等尊嚴相互尊重所以您不認同賴總統的併購說的說法是嗎\n\n9\n00:02:51,506 --> 00:03:08,573\n不要外延到那種意義的去解讀因為我覺得很奇怪我們只要簡單的一句話就會被你們扣上什麼賣台啦親中賣台的大帽子總統都已經講了說可以併購了幾乎就等於說是只要你價格談出來你只要價格好\n\n10\n00:03:09,053 --> 00:03:24,396\n我就可以來併購我那這樣子的言行你們還認為我們不必過度解讀那為什麼我們多次跟中國大陸要求你要用文明的價值跟方式來說服台灣你的對台政策而不是\n\n11\n00:03:25,609 --> 00:03:40,589\n不答應我前提我就文攻武嚇我想這個也是中國大陸被國際社會被民主國家圍堵的原因主委那請問一下以後我們可不可以都可以提到這個我們不要提統一我們就提併購這樣可以嗎\n\n12\n00:03:43,973 --> 00:04:02,630\n就是我們以後這樣提啊那不管是合意併購或者是敵意併購比如說武力統一我們就算是敵意併購和平統一就算是這個合意併購以後我們是不是都可以用併購來代替統一這樣的字眼這樣就不會有事呢委員不用用這個公私併購來看待兩岸的\n\n13\n00:04:03,471 --> 00:04:31,291\n因为我觉得赖总统这样的言行其实就让大家都会觉得会让国际社会觉得误以为台湾已经在准备变卖主权了我觉得赖总统这段时间的这个言论大家知道赖总统不是这个意思那是什么意思请你说就是你中国大陆要对台湾的对台政策要尊重要正视我们中华民国客观事实存在你要用文明的方式\n\n14\n00:04:32,808 --> 00:04:49,856\n來用文明的方式就可以併購是嗎不是而是你不能軍機線擾台你不能外交打壓經濟脅迫社會滲透一連串的認知作戰灰色地帶侵擾我現在請教的主委就是針對賴總統的併購說您認不認為他這個部分有失言他只是一個比喻我剛剛說過了那你認不認同\n\n15\n00:05:00,762 --> 00:05:15,120\n他是在強調對岸應該要以對等尊嚴相互尊重他要的是一個程序正義反正我們都可以講併購大公司可以來併購小公司只要條件談得攏\n\n16\n00:05:16,121 --> 00:05:21,323\n建議委員不要這樣無限上綱解讀我覺得你這應該是跟總統講不是跟我講第二個就是剛剛我們也聽到很多委員就是請教這個主委就是你現在有發了一個通知建議我們的政府官員不要出席海峽論壇剛剛也有民進黨委員特別提到去年代表這個到\n\n17\n00:05:40,652 --> 00:05:45,058\n張立善雲林縣長張立善參加海峽論壇他特別提到那請問您知道去年張立善縣長去參加海峽論壇主要是做什麼嗎他主要是要去行銷雲林的農特產品為我們弱勢的農漁民找出路\n\n18\n00:05:57,595 --> 00:06:03,982\n所以說您現在說好不建議我們這些政府可以出席了那是不是就針對這些農漁民我們連幫他找出連幫他行銷農作產品都不能做了呢跟委員報告我們是建議這樣\n\n19\n00:06:12,512 --> 00:06:21,957\n你如果挑這個他海峽論壇去那他設定的這個統戰平台那我們也想問他有設定說不讓我們行銷農特產品嗎沒有啊張縣長也在這個海峽論壇的公開的這個這個發表當中他也提到了我們雲林我想他可以挑其他的時間去為什麼不能這個時候去因為這個是他\n\n20\n00:06:37,846 --> 00:07:02,468\n張開來的一個統戰平台嘛你沒有自主性啦你就任他這個安排張立善縣長提到要行銷我們的農特產品大陸也沒有要求他不准說所以這有什麼說我們還受到他的一些約束其實我覺得不逼我想剛剛主委一直提到我們要健康有序的交流你也一直強調兩岸要交流可是做法卻是背道而馳\n\n21\n00:07:03,029 --> 00:07:07,461\n那我請教一下如果今年有縣市政府提出要去參加海峽論壇您會不會核准\n\n22\n00:07:09,546 --> 00:07:34,944\n我跟委員報告我們是建議他不出席但是他如果堅持要出席我們就會跟他規勸相關的風險請他做好風險的準備所以如果他遵守相關的規定的話要符合我們兩岸的規範我們也會呼籲他要重視我們台灣人的民意注意社會觀感國際視聽\n\n23\n00:07:37,485 --> 00:07:42,629\n共同來維護臺灣整體的利益也就是說只要剛剛您說這些相關規定我們這些縣市政府只要符合跟你們申請的話你們是會核准的是嗎我們會來看他申請的事由啦比如說你說要去推薦隆特產品\n\n24\n00:07:54,958 --> 00:08:11,307\n那我們就會問說你上次去推薦隆特產品真的有賣得很好嗎還是對岸口惠賣得好不好我覺得你陸委會也要負很大的責任如果你不讓兩岸關係變成這樣的兵凶戰危的話也不會造成這樣的一個對立所以我覺得你把這個題目這樣問題丟出來我覺得非常的失職因為賣得好不好不是單方面的那我們還是要爭取每一個可以行銷我們希望兩岸正常健康有序的交流對但不是口中說一套\n\n25\n00:08:23,854 --> 00:08:39,804\n不管是口中做一套是真正要拿出誠意來好不好我覺得農漁民已經非常弱勢了好不容易有這麼大一個市場這麼好的一個平台可以去行銷農特產品請陸委會不要干擾也不要斷了我們農民的生計斷的是中國大陸說斷就斷讓農民血本無歸這就是有風險所以我們要跟地方政府講好風險在哪裡當然有風險但是呢事實上只要核准我覺得只要只要合乎規定也不該不合准我們會提醒\n\n26\n00:08:53,433 --> 00:08:53,514\n好,謝謝,謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6230\t9411\t謝謝主席 我們請陸委會邱主委邱主委請學長好主委好 剛剛在陸委會的這個報告裡面你們一再的強調兩岸互不隸屬 反對統戰滲透可是賴總統卻用這個大公司小公司的合併來去形容兩岸的競合\n32139\t49033\t賴總統說中共中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司所以如果大的公司要併購小的公司大陸應該要提條件而不是台灣在提條件請問主委你是否認同賴總統所提的併購說的說法來形容兩岸合併與否\n50594\t72883\t跟委員報告我想在許多地方他們有詮釋兩樣的互動重點在對等尊嚴要相互尊重而不是說你塞了一個我無法接受的前提這個前提是要消滅中華民國的前提這個前提是要台灣成為中華人民共和國的一部分我想\n73743\t90257\t我們無法接受這種政治群體所以主委您認不認同賴總統公私併購說的說法我認同這個他的兩岸政策的主軸就是希望兩岸能夠在對等尊嚴所以說現在公私併購說的說法就是我們兩岸關係現在最新的立場嗎\n96294\t109581\t我講他是一個比喻這希望兩岸能夠對等尊嚴相互尊重來開啟任何健康有序的交流那請問一下併購說是不是也意味著賴政府統一統一呢\n113388\t131291\t不必過度解讀那請問要怎麼解讀我剛剛說了就是對等尊嚴我們一直呼籲中國大陸一個重要的事情就是政治中華民國的客觀事實存在在針對訪談的時候提出這樣的併勾說的說法那請問我們要怎麼解讀\n132554\t150304\t我們的解讀就是兩岸互動要在對等尊嚴相互尊重請問一下剛剛主委已經有提到我看很多委員在提針對這個大陸的我們台灣的藝人在大陸的一些轉發的人就說應該要處罰應該要這個可能違反什麼相關的規定那請問一下\n152186\t168263\t賴總統這樣的言論是不是以默許自己可以當作是中國的一部分只是在談價格跟條件這樣有沒有違反你剛剛講的建議委員不要這個過度延伸的解讀我們最主要還是對等尊嚴相互尊重所以您不認同賴總統的併購說的說法是嗎\n171506\t188573\t不要外延到那種意義的去解讀因為我覺得很奇怪我們只要簡單的一句話就會被你們扣上什麼賣台啦親中賣台的大帽子總統都已經講了說可以併購了幾乎就等於說是只要你價格談出來你只要價格好\n189053\t204396\t我就可以來併購我那這樣子的言行你們還認為我們不必過度解讀那為什麼我們多次跟中國大陸要求你要用文明的價值跟方式來說服台灣你的對台政策而不是\n205609\t220589\t不答應我前提我就文攻武嚇我想這個也是中國大陸被國際社會被民主國家圍堵的原因主委那請問一下以後我們可不可以都可以提到這個我們不要提統一我們就提併購這樣可以嗎\n223973\t242630\t就是我們以後這樣提啊那不管是合意併購或者是敵意併購比如說武力統一我們就算是敵意併購和平統一就算是這個合意併購以後我們是不是都可以用併購來代替統一這樣的字眼這樣就不會有事呢委員不用用這個公私併購來看待兩岸的\n243471\t271291\t因为我觉得赖总统这样的言行其实就让大家都会觉得会让国际社会觉得误以为台湾已经在准备变卖主权了我觉得赖总统这段时间的这个言论大家知道赖总统不是这个意思那是什么意思请你说就是你中国大陆要对台湾的对台政策要尊重要正视我们中华民国客观事实存在你要用文明的方式\n272808\t289856\t來用文明的方式就可以併購 是嗎不是 而是你不能軍機線擾台你不能外交打壓 經濟脅迫 社會滲透一連串的認知作戰 灰色地帶侵擾我現在請教的主委就是針對賴總統的併購說您認不認為他這個部分有失言他只是一個比喻 我剛剛說過了那你認不認同\n300762\t315120\t他是在強調對岸應該要以對等尊嚴相互尊重他要的是一個程序正義反正我們都可以講併購大公司可以來併購小公司只要條件談得攏\n316121\t321323\t建議委員不要這樣無限上綱解讀我覺得你這應該是跟總統講不是跟我講第二個就是剛剛我們也聽到很多委員就是請教這個主委就是你現在有發了一個通知建議我們的政府官員不要出席海峽論壇剛剛也有民進黨委員特別提到去年代表這個到\n340652\t345058\t張立善 雲林縣長張立善參加海峽論壇他特別提到那請問您知道去年張立善縣長去參加海峽論壇主要是做什麼嗎他主要是要去行銷雲林的農特產品為我們弱勢的農漁民找出路\n357595\t363982\t所以說您現在說好不建議我們這些政府可以出席了那是不是就針對這些農漁民我們連幫他找出連幫他行銷農作產品都不能做了呢跟委員報告我們是建議這樣\n372512\t381957\t你如果挑這個他海峽論壇去那他設定的這個統戰平台那我們也想問他有設定說不讓我們行銷農特產品嗎沒有啊張縣長也在這個海峽論壇的公開的這個這個發表當中他也提到了我們雲林我想他可以挑其他的時間去為什麼不能這個時候去因為這個是他\n397846\t422468\t張開來的一個統戰平台嘛你沒有自主性啦你就任他這個安排張立善縣長提到要行銷我們的農特產品大陸也沒有要求他不准說所以這有什麼說我們還受到他的一些約束其實我覺得不逼我想剛剛主委一直提到我們要健康有序的交流你也一直強調兩岸要交流可是做法卻是背道而馳\n423029\t427461\t那我請教一下如果今年有縣市政府提出要去參加海峽論壇您會不會核准\n429546\t454944\t我跟委員報告我們是建議他不出席但是他如果堅持要出席我們就會跟他規勸相關的風險請他做好風險的準備所以如果他遵守相關的規定的話要符合我們兩岸的規範我們也會呼籲他要重視我們台灣人的民意注意社會觀感 國際視聽\n457485\t462629\t共同來維護臺灣整體的利益也就是說只要剛剛您說這些相關規定我們這些縣市政府只要符合跟你們申請的話你們是會核准的是嗎我們會來看他申請的事由啦比如說你說要去推薦隆特產品\n474958\t491307\t那我們就會問說你上次去推薦隆特產品真的有賣得很好嗎還是對岸口惠賣得好不好我覺得你陸委會也要負很大的責任如果你不讓兩岸關係變成這樣的兵凶戰危的話也不會造成這樣的一個對立所以我覺得你把這個題目這樣問題丟出來我覺得非常的失職因為賣得好不好不是單方面的那我們還是要爭取每一個可以行銷我們希望兩岸正常健康有序的交流對 但不是口中說一套\n503854\t519804\t不管是口中做一套是真正要拿出誠意來好不好我覺得農漁民已經非常弱勢了好不容易有這麼大一個市場這麼好的一個平台可以去行銷農特產品請陸委會不要干擾也不要斷了我們農民的生計斷的是中國大陸說斷就斷讓農民血本無歸這就是有風險所以我們要跟地方政府講好風險在哪裡當然有風險但是呢事實上只要核准我覺得只要只要合乎規定也不該不合准我們會提醒\n533433\t533514\t好,謝謝,謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請陸委會邱主委邱主委請學長好主委好 剛剛在陸委會的這個報告裡面你們一再的強調兩岸互不隸屬 反對統戰滲透可是賴總統卻用這個大公司小公司的合併來去形容兩岸的競合\n賴總統說中共中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司所以如果大的公司要併購小的公司大陸應該要提條件而不是台灣在提條件請問主委你是否認同賴總統所提的併購說的說法來形容兩岸合併與否\n跟委員報告我想在許多地方他們有詮釋兩樣的互動重點在對等尊嚴要相互尊重而不是說你塞了一個我無法接受的前提這個前提是要消滅中華民國的前提這個前提是要台灣成為中華人民共和國的一部分我想\n我們無法接受這種政治群體所以主委您認不認同賴總統公私併購說的說法我認同這個他的兩岸政策的主軸就是希望兩岸能夠在對等尊嚴所以說現在公私併購說的說法就是我們兩岸關係現在最新的立場嗎\n我講他是一個比喻這希望兩岸能夠對等尊嚴相互尊重來開啟任何健康有序的交流那請問一下併購說是不是也意味著賴政府統一統一呢\n不必過度解讀那請問要怎麼解讀我剛剛說了就是對等尊嚴我們一直呼籲中國大陸一個重要的事情就是政治中華民國的客觀事實存在在針對訪談的時候提出這樣的併勾說的說法那請問我們要怎麼解讀\n我們的解讀就是兩岸互動要在對等尊嚴相互尊重請問一下剛剛主委已經有提到我看很多委員在提針對這個大陸的我們台灣的藝人在大陸的一些轉發的人就說應該要處罰應該要這個可能違反什麼相關的規定那請問一下\n賴總統這樣的言論是不是以默許自己可以當作是中國的一部分只是在談價格跟條件這樣有沒有違反你剛剛講的建議委員不要這個過度延伸的解讀我們最主要還是對等尊嚴相互尊重所以您不認同賴總統的併購說的說法是嗎\n不要外延到那種意義的去解讀因為我覺得很奇怪我們只要簡單的一句話就會被你們扣上什麼賣台啦親中賣台的大帽子總統都已經講了說可以併購了幾乎就等於說是只要你價格談出來你只要價格好\n我就可以來併購我那這樣子的言行你們還認為我們不必過度解讀那為什麼我們多次跟中國大陸要求你要用文明的價值跟方式來說服台灣你的對台政策而不是\n不答應我前提我就文攻武嚇我想這個也是中國大陸被國際社會被民主國家圍堵的原因主委那請問一下以後我們可不可以都可以提到這個我們不要提統一我們就提併購這樣可以嗎\n就是我們以後這樣提啊那不管是合意併購或者是敵意併購比如說武力統一我們就算是敵意併購和平統一就算是這個合意併購以後我們是不是都可以用併購來代替統一這樣的字眼這樣就不會有事呢委員不用用這個公私併購來看待兩岸的\n因为我觉得赖总统这样的言行其实就让大家都会觉得会让国际社会觉得误以为台湾已经在准备变卖主权了我觉得赖总统这段时间的这个言论大家知道赖总统不是这个意思那是什么意思请你说就是你中国大陆要对台湾的对台政策要尊重要正视我们中华民国客观事实存在你要用文明的方式\n來用文明的方式就可以併購 是嗎不是 而是你不能軍機線擾台你不能外交打壓 經濟脅迫 社會滲透一連串的認知作戰 灰色地帶侵擾我現在請教的主委就是針對賴總統的併購說您認不認為他這個部分有失言他只是一個比喻 我剛剛說過了那你認不認同\n他是在強調對岸應該要以對等尊嚴相互尊重他要的是一個程序正義反正我們都可以講併購大公司可以來併購小公司只要條件談得攏\n建議委員不要這樣無限上綱解讀我覺得你這應該是跟總統講不是跟我講第二個就是剛剛我們也聽到很多委員就是請教這個主委就是你現在有發了一個通知建議我們的政府官員不要出席海峽論壇剛剛也有民進黨委員特別提到去年代表這個到\n張立善 雲林縣長張立善參加海峽論壇他特別提到那請問您知道去年張立善縣長去參加海峽論壇主要是做什麼嗎他主要是要去行銷雲林的農特產品為我們弱勢的農漁民找出路\n所以說您現在說好不建議我們這些政府可以出席了那是不是就針對這些農漁民我們連幫他找出連幫他行銷農作產品都不能做了呢跟委員報告我們是建議這樣\n你如果挑這個他海峽論壇去那他設定的這個統戰平台那我們也想問他有設定說不讓我們行銷農特產品嗎沒有啊張縣長也在這個海峽論壇的公開的這個這個發表當中他也提到了我們雲林我想他可以挑其他的時間去為什麼不能這個時候去因為這個是他\n張開來的一個統戰平台嘛你沒有自主性啦你就任他這個安排張立善縣長提到要行銷我們的農特產品大陸也沒有要求他不准說所以這有什麼說我們還受到他的一些約束其實我覺得不逼我想剛剛主委一直提到我們要健康有序的交流你也一直強調兩岸要交流可是做法卻是背道而馳\n那我請教一下如果今年有縣市政府提出要去參加海峽論壇您會不會核准\n我跟委員報告我們是建議他不出席但是他如果堅持要出席我們就會跟他規勸相關的風險請他做好風險的準備所以如果他遵守相關的規定的話要符合我們兩岸的規範我們也會呼籲他要重視我們台灣人的民意注意社會觀感 國際視聽\n共同來維護臺灣整體的利益也就是說只要剛剛您說這些相關規定我們這些縣市政府只要符合跟你們申請的話你們是會核准的是嗎我們會來看他申請的事由啦比如說你說要去推薦隆特產品\n那我們就會問說你上次去推薦隆特產品真的有賣得很好嗎還是對岸口惠賣得好不好我覺得你陸委會也要負很大的責任如果你不讓兩岸關係變成這樣的兵凶戰危的話也不會造成這樣的一個對立所以我覺得你把這個題目這樣問題丟出來我覺得非常的失職因為賣得好不好不是單方面的那我們還是要爭取每一個可以行銷我們希望兩岸正常健康有序的交流對 但不是口中說一套\n不管是口中做一套是真正要拿出誠意來好不好我覺得農漁民已經非常弱勢了好不容易有這麼大一個市場這麼好的一個平台可以去行銷農特產品請陸委會不要干擾也不要斷了我們農民的生計斷的是中國大陸說斷就斷讓農民血本無歸這就是有風險所以我們要跟地方政府講好風險在哪裡當然有風險但是呢事實上只要核准我覺得只要只要合乎規定也不該不合准我們會提醒\n好,謝謝,謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.230 --> 00:09.411\n謝謝主席我們請陸委會邱主委邱主委請學長好主委好剛剛在陸委會的這個報告裡面你們一再的強調兩岸互不隸屬反對統戰滲透可是賴總統卻用這個大公司小公司的合併來去形容兩岸的競合\n\n00:32.139 --> 00:49.033\n賴總統說中共中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司所以如果大的公司要併購小的公司大陸應該要提條件而不是台灣在提條件請問主委你是否認同賴總統所提的併購說的說法來形容兩岸合併與否\n\n00:50.594 --> 01:12.883\n跟委員報告我想在許多地方他們有詮釋兩樣的互動重點在對等尊嚴要相互尊重而不是說你塞了一個我無法接受的前提這個前提是要消滅中華民國的前提這個前提是要台灣成為中華人民共和國的一部分我想\n\n01:13.743 --> 01:30.257\n我們無法接受這種政治群體所以主委您認不認同賴總統公私併購說的說法我認同這個他的兩岸政策的主軸就是希望兩岸能夠在對等尊嚴所以說現在公私併購說的說法就是我們兩岸關係現在最新的立場嗎\n\n01:36.294 --> 01:49.581\n我講他是一個比喻這希望兩岸能夠對等尊嚴相互尊重來開啟任何健康有序的交流那請問一下併購說是不是也意味著賴政府統一統一呢\n\n01:53.388 --> 02:11.291\n不必過度解讀那請問要怎麼解讀我剛剛說了就是對等尊嚴我們一直呼籲中國大陸一個重要的事情就是政治中華民國的客觀事實存在在針對訪談的時候提出這樣的併勾說的說法那請問我們要怎麼解讀\n\n02:12.554 --> 02:30.304\n我們的解讀就是兩岸互動要在對等尊嚴相互尊重請問一下剛剛主委已經有提到我看很多委員在提針對這個大陸的我們台灣的藝人在大陸的一些轉發的人就說應該要處罰應該要這個可能違反什麼相關的規定那請問一下\n\n02:32.186 --> 02:48.263\n賴總統這樣的言論是不是以默許自己可以當作是中國的一部分只是在談價格跟條件這樣有沒有違反你剛剛講的建議委員不要這個過度延伸的解讀我們最主要還是對等尊嚴相互尊重所以您不認同賴總統的併購說的說法是嗎\n\n02:51.506 --> 03:08.573\n不要外延到那種意義的去解讀因為我覺得很奇怪我們只要簡單的一句話就會被你們扣上什麼賣台啦親中賣台的大帽子總統都已經講了說可以併購了幾乎就等於說是只要你價格談出來你只要價格好\n\n03:09.053 --> 03:24.396\n我就可以來併購我那這樣子的言行你們還認為我們不必過度解讀那為什麼我們多次跟中國大陸要求你要用文明的價值跟方式來說服台灣你的對台政策而不是\n\n03:25.609 --> 03:40.589\n不答應我前提我就文攻武嚇我想這個也是中國大陸被國際社會被民主國家圍堵的原因主委那請問一下以後我們可不可以都可以提到這個我們不要提統一我們就提併購這樣可以嗎\n\n03:43.973 --> 04:02.630\n就是我們以後這樣提啊那不管是合意併購或者是敵意併購比如說武力統一我們就算是敵意併購和平統一就算是這個合意併購以後我們是不是都可以用併購來代替統一這樣的字眼這樣就不會有事呢委員不用用這個公私併購來看待兩岸的\n\n04:03.471 --> 04:31.291\n因为我觉得赖总统这样的言行其实就让大家都会觉得会让国际社会觉得误以为台湾已经在准备变卖主权了我觉得赖总统这段时间的这个言论大家知道赖总统不是这个意思那是什么意思请你说就是你中国大陆要对台湾的对台政策要尊重要正视我们中华民国客观事实存在你要用文明的方式\n\n04:32.808 --> 04:49.856\n來用文明的方式就可以併購是嗎不是而是你不能軍機線擾台你不能外交打壓經濟脅迫社會滲透一連串的認知作戰灰色地帶侵擾我現在請教的主委就是針對賴總統的併購說您認不認為他這個部分有失言他只是一個比喻我剛剛說過了那你認不認同\n\n05:00.762 --> 05:15.120\n他是在強調對岸應該要以對等尊嚴相互尊重他要的是一個程序正義反正我們都可以講併購大公司可以來併購小公司只要條件談得攏\n\n05:16.121 --> 05:21.323\n建議委員不要這樣無限上綱解讀我覺得你這應該是跟總統講不是跟我講第二個就是剛剛我們也聽到很多委員就是請教這個主委就是你現在有發了一個通知建議我們的政府官員不要出席海峽論壇剛剛也有民進黨委員特別提到去年代表這個到\n\n05:40.652 --> 05:45.058\n張立善雲林縣長張立善參加海峽論壇他特別提到那請問您知道去年張立善縣長去參加海峽論壇主要是做什麼嗎他主要是要去行銷雲林的農特產品為我們弱勢的農漁民找出路\n\n05:57.595 --> 06:03.982\n所以說您現在說好不建議我們這些政府可以出席了那是不是就針對這些農漁民我們連幫他找出連幫他行銷農作產品都不能做了呢跟委員報告我們是建議這樣\n\n06:12.512 --> 06:21.957\n你如果挑這個他海峽論壇去那他設定的這個統戰平台那我們也想問他有設定說不讓我們行銷農特產品嗎沒有啊張縣長也在這個海峽論壇的公開的這個這個發表當中他也提到了我們雲林我想他可以挑其他的時間去為什麼不能這個時候去因為這個是他\n\n06:37.846 --> 07:02.468\n張開來的一個統戰平台嘛你沒有自主性啦你就任他這個安排張立善縣長提到要行銷我們的農特產品大陸也沒有要求他不准說所以這有什麼說我們還受到他的一些約束其實我覺得不逼我想剛剛主委一直提到我們要健康有序的交流你也一直強調兩岸要交流可是做法卻是背道而馳\n\n07:03.029 --> 07:07.461\n那我請教一下如果今年有縣市政府提出要去參加海峽論壇您會不會核准\n\n07:09.546 --> 07:34.944\n我跟委員報告我們是建議他不出席但是他如果堅持要出席我們就會跟他規勸相關的風險請他做好風險的準備所以如果他遵守相關的規定的話要符合我們兩岸的規範我們也會呼籲他要重視我們台灣人的民意注意社會觀感國際視聽\n\n07:37.485 --> 07:42.629\n共同來維護臺灣整體的利益也就是說只要剛剛您說這些相關規定我們這些縣市政府只要符合跟你們申請的話你們是會核准的是嗎我們會來看他申請的事由啦比如說你說要去推薦隆特產品\n\n07:54.958 --> 08:11.307\n那我們就會問說你上次去推薦隆特產品真的有賣得很好嗎還是對岸口惠賣得好不好我覺得你陸委會也要負很大的責任如果你不讓兩岸關係變成這樣的兵凶戰危的話也不會造成這樣的一個對立所以我覺得你把這個題目這樣問題丟出來我覺得非常的失職因為賣得好不好不是單方面的那我們還是要爭取每一個可以行銷我們希望兩岸正常健康有序的交流對但不是口中說一套\n\n08:23.854 --> 08:39.804\n不管是口中做一套是真正要拿出誠意來好不好我覺得農漁民已經非常弱勢了好不容易有這麼大一個市場這麼好的一個平台可以去行銷農特產品請陸委會不要干擾也不要斷了我們農民的生計斷的是中國大陸說斷就斷讓農民血本無歸這就是有風險所以我們要跟地方政府講好風險在哪裡當然有風險但是呢事實上只要核准我覺得只要只要合乎規定也不該不合准我們會提醒\n\n08:53.433 --> 08:53.514\n好,謝謝,謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.23,"end":9.411,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請陸委會邱主委邱主委請學長好主委好 剛剛在陸委會的這個報告裡面你們一再的強調兩岸互不隸屬 反對統戰滲透可是賴總統卻用這個大公司小公司的合併來去形容兩岸的競合"},{"start":32.139,"end":49.033,"text":"賴總統說中共中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司所以如果大的公司要併購小的公司大陸應該要提條件而不是台灣在提條件請問主委你是否認同賴總統所提的併購說的說法來形容兩岸合併與否"},{"start":50.594,"end":72.883,"text":"跟委員報告我想在許多地方他們有詮釋兩樣的互動重點在對等尊嚴要相互尊重而不是說你塞了一個我無法接受的前提這個前提是要消滅中華民國的前提這個前提是要台灣成為中華人民共和國的一部分我想"},{"start":73.743,"end":90.257,"text":"我們無法接受這種政治群體所以主委您認不認同賴總統公私併購說的說法我認同這個他的兩岸政策的主軸就是希望兩岸能夠在對等尊嚴所以說現在公私併購說的說法就是我們兩岸關係現在最新的立場嗎"},{"start":96.294,"end":109.581,"text":"我講他是一個比喻這希望兩岸能夠對等尊嚴相互尊重來開啟任何健康有序的交流那請問一下併購說是不是也意味著賴政府統一統一呢"},{"start":113.388,"end":131.291,"text":"不必過度解讀那請問要怎麼解讀我剛剛說了就是對等尊嚴我們一直呼籲中國大陸一個重要的事情就是政治中華民國的客觀事實存在在針對訪談的時候提出這樣的併勾說的說法那請問我們要怎麼解讀"},{"start":132.554,"end":150.304,"text":"我們的解讀就是兩岸互動要在對等尊嚴相互尊重請問一下剛剛主委已經有提到我看很多委員在提針對這個大陸的我們台灣的藝人在大陸的一些轉發的人就說應該要處罰應該要這個可能違反什麼相關的規定那請問一下"},{"start":152.186,"end":168.263,"text":"賴總統這樣的言論是不是以默許自己可以當作是中國的一部分只是在談價格跟條件這樣有沒有違反你剛剛講的建議委員不要這個過度延伸的解讀我們最主要還是對等尊嚴相互尊重所以您不認同賴總統的併購說的說法是嗎"},{"start":171.506,"end":188.573,"text":"不要外延到那種意義的去解讀因為我覺得很奇怪我們只要簡單的一句話就會被你們扣上什麼賣台啦親中賣台的大帽子總統都已經講了說可以併購了幾乎就等於說是只要你價格談出來你只要價格好"},{"start":189.053,"end":204.396,"text":"我就可以來併購我那這樣子的言行你們還認為我們不必過度解讀那為什麼我們多次跟中國大陸要求你要用文明的價值跟方式來說服台灣你的對台政策而不是"},{"start":205.609,"end":220.589,"text":"不答應我前提我就文攻武嚇我想這個也是中國大陸被國際社會被民主國家圍堵的原因主委那請問一下以後我們可不可以都可以提到這個我們不要提統一我們就提併購這樣可以嗎"},{"start":223.973,"end":242.63,"text":"就是我們以後這樣提啊那不管是合意併購或者是敵意併購比如說武力統一我們就算是敵意併購和平統一就算是這個合意併購以後我們是不是都可以用併購來代替統一這樣的字眼這樣就不會有事呢委員不用用這個公私併購來看待兩岸的"},{"start":243.471,"end":271.291,"text":"因为我觉得赖总统这样的言行其实就让大家都会觉得会让国际社会觉得误以为台湾已经在准备变卖主权了我觉得赖总统这段时间的这个言论大家知道赖总统不是这个意思那是什么意思请你说就是你中国大陆要对台湾的对台政策要尊重要正视我们中华民国客观事实存在你要用文明的方式"},{"start":272.808,"end":289.856,"text":"來用文明的方式就可以併購 是嗎不是 而是你不能軍機線擾台你不能外交打壓 經濟脅迫 社會滲透一連串的認知作戰 灰色地帶侵擾我現在請教的主委就是針對賴總統的併購說您認不認為他這個部分有失言他只是一個比喻 我剛剛說過了那你認不認同"},{"start":300.762,"end":315.12,"text":"他是在強調對岸應該要以對等尊嚴相互尊重他要的是一個程序正義反正我們都可以講併購大公司可以來併購小公司只要條件談得攏"},{"start":316.121,"end":321.323,"text":"建議委員不要這樣無限上綱解讀我覺得你這應該是跟總統講不是跟我講第二個就是剛剛我們也聽到很多委員就是請教這個主委就是你現在有發了一個通知建議我們的政府官員不要出席海峽論壇剛剛也有民進黨委員特別提到去年代表這個到"},{"start":340.652,"end":345.058,"text":"張立善 雲林縣長張立善參加海峽論壇他特別提到那請問您知道去年張立善縣長去參加海峽論壇主要是做什麼嗎他主要是要去行銷雲林的農特產品為我們弱勢的農漁民找出路"},{"start":357.595,"end":363.982,"text":"所以說您現在說好不建議我們這些政府可以出席了那是不是就針對這些農漁民我們連幫他找出連幫他行銷農作產品都不能做了呢跟委員報告我們是建議這樣"},{"start":372.512,"end":381.957,"text":"你如果挑這個他海峽論壇去那他設定的這個統戰平台那我們也想問他有設定說不讓我們行銷農特產品嗎沒有啊張縣長也在這個海峽論壇的公開的這個這個發表當中他也提到了我們雲林我想他可以挑其他的時間去為什麼不能這個時候去因為這個是他"},{"start":397.846,"end":422.468,"text":"張開來的一個統戰平台嘛你沒有自主性啦你就任他這個安排張立善縣長提到要行銷我們的農特產品大陸也沒有要求他不准說所以這有什麼說我們還受到他的一些約束其實我覺得不逼我想剛剛主委一直提到我們要健康有序的交流你也一直強調兩岸要交流可是做法卻是背道而馳"},{"start":423.029,"end":427.461,"text":"那我請教一下如果今年有縣市政府提出要去參加海峽論壇您會不會核准"},{"start":429.546,"end":454.944,"text":"我跟委員報告我們是建議他不出席但是他如果堅持要出席我們就會跟他規勸相關的風險請他做好風險的準備所以如果他遵守相關的規定的話要符合我們兩岸的規範我們也會呼籲他要重視我們台灣人的民意注意社會觀感 國際視聽"},{"start":457.485,"end":462.629,"text":"共同來維護臺灣整體的利益也就是說只要剛剛您說這些相關規定我們這些縣市政府只要符合跟你們申請的話你們是會核准的是嗎我們會來看他申請的事由啦比如說你說要去推薦隆特產品"},{"start":474.958,"end":491.307,"text":"那我們就會問說你上次去推薦隆特產品真的有賣得很好嗎還是對岸口惠賣得好不好我覺得你陸委會也要負很大的責任如果你不讓兩岸關係變成這樣的兵凶戰危的話也不會造成這樣的一個對立所以我覺得你把這個題目這樣問題丟出來我覺得非常的失職因為賣得好不好不是單方面的那我們還是要爭取每一個可以行銷我們希望兩岸正常健康有序的交流對 但不是口中說一套"},{"start":503.854,"end":519.804,"text":"不管是口中做一套是真正要拿出誠意來好不好我覺得農漁民已經非常弱勢了好不容易有這麼大一個市場這麼好的一個平台可以去行銷農特產品請陸委會不要干擾也不要斷了我們農民的生計斷的是中國大陸說斷就斷讓農民血本無歸這就是有風險所以我們要跟地方政府講好風險在哪裡當然有風險但是呢事實上只要核准我覺得只要只要合乎規定也不該不合准我們會提醒"},{"start":533.433,"end":533.514,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":616,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（11時20分）謝謝主席，請陸委會邱主委。"],["主席（牛委員煦庭）：邱主委有請。"],["邱主任委員垂正：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：主委好。剛剛在陸委會的報告裡面，你們一再地強調兩岸互不隸屬，反對統戰滲透，可是賴總統卻用大公司、小公司的合併來形容兩岸的競合。賴總統說：「中共、中國是比較大的公司，臺灣是比較小的公司，所以如果大的公司要併購小的公司，大陸應該要提條件，而不是臺灣在提條件。」請問主委，你是否認同賴總統所提的，以併購的說法來形容兩岸合併與否？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我想在許多地方他們有所詮釋，但兩岸互動的重點在對等尊嚴，要相互尊重，而不是說你塞了一個我無法接受的前提，這個前提是要消滅中華民國，這個前提是要臺灣成為中華人民共和國的一部分，我想我們無法接受這種政治前提。"],["許委員宇甄：所以主委您認不認同賴總統公司併購說的說法？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我認同他的兩岸政策主軸，就是希望兩岸能夠在對等尊嚴的前提下，啟動健康有序的交流跟對話。"],["許委員宇甄：所以現在公司併購說的說法，就是我們兩岸關係最新的立場嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想他是一個比喻，是希望兩岸能夠對等尊嚴、相互尊重，來開啟任何健康有序的交流。"],["許委員宇甄：請問一下，併購說是不是也意味著賴政府同意統一呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：不必過度解讀。"],["許委員宇甄：那請問要怎麼解讀？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我剛剛說了，就是對等尊嚴，我們一直呼籲中國大陸一件重要的事情，就是要正視中華民國客觀存在的事實。"],["許委員宇甄：那可不可以請教你，針對賴總統在訪談的時候，提出這樣併購說的說法，請問我們要怎麼解讀？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們的解讀就是兩岸互動要在對等尊嚴、相互尊重的原則下……"],["許委員宇甄：請問一下，剛剛主委已經有提到，我看很多委員也都有提到，針對我們臺灣的藝人在大陸有一些轉發的行為，就說應該要處罰，可能違反什麼相關的規定。請問一下賴總統這樣的言論，是不是已經默許自己可以當作是中國的一部分，只是在談價格跟條件？這樣有沒有違反你剛剛講的反滲透法？"],["邱主任委員垂正：建議委員不要過度延伸的解讀，我們最主要還是對等尊嚴，相互尊重。"],["許委員宇甄：所以您不認同賴總統這個併購說的說法，是嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：不要向外延伸到那種意義去作解讀，這是不對的。"],["許委員宇甄：因為我覺得很奇怪，我們只要簡單的一句話，就會被你們扣上什麼親中賣臺的大帽子，而總統都已經說可以併購了，幾乎就等於只要你價格談出來、只要你價格好，就可以來併購我，這樣子的言行，你們還認為我們不必過度解讀？為什麼只許州官放火、不許百姓點燈？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們多次跟中國大陸要求，要用文明的價值跟方式來說服臺灣你的對臺政策，而不是不答應你的前提就文攻武嚇，我想這個也是中國大陸被國際社會、被民主國家圍堵的原因。"],["許委員宇甄：那請問一下，以後我們可不可以提到這個，我們不要提統一，我們就提併購，這樣可以嗎？我們以後就這樣提，不管是合意併購或者是敵意併購，比如說武力統一，我們就算是敵意併購；和平統一，就算是合意併購，以後我們是不是都可以用併購來代替統一這樣的字眼？是不是這樣就不會有事呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，不要用公司併購來看待兩岸的互動，我們還是強調……"],["許委員宇甄：因為我覺得賴總統這樣的言行，其實就會讓大家覺得，也會讓國際社會誤以為臺灣已經在準備變賣主權了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員不用過度解讀。"],["許委員宇甄：我覺得賴總統這段時間的言論……"],["邱主任委員垂正：大家都知道賴總統不是這個意思。"],["許委員宇甄：那是什麼意思？請你說明。"],["邱主任委員垂正：就是中國大陸的對臺政策，對臺灣要尊重，要正視我們中華民國客觀存在的事實，你要用文明的方式來……"],["許委員宇甄：用文明的方式就可以併購，是嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：不是，是你不能軍機艦擾臺、外交打壓、經濟脅迫、社會滲透、一連串的認知作戰、灰色地帶侵擾、複合性的施壓……"],["許委員宇甄：主委，我現在請教的是，針對賴總統的併購說，您認不認為他這個部分有失言？"],["邱主任委員垂正：他只是一個比喻，我剛剛說過了。"],["許委員宇甄：那你認不認同？"],["邱主任委員垂正：他是在強調對岸應該要以對等尊嚴、相互尊重……"],["許委員宇甄：所以你也不敢回答啦……"],["邱主任委員垂正：他要的是一個程序正義。"],["許委員宇甄：反正以後我們就是都可以講併購，就是大公司可以來併購小公司，只要條件談得攏，是這樣嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：建議委員不要這樣無限上綱解讀。"],["許委員宇甄：我覺得你應該去跟總統講，不是跟我講。","第二個，剛剛我們也聽到很多委員請教主委，你現在有發了一個通知，建議我們的政府官員不要出席海峽論壇，剛剛也有民進黨委員特別提到，去年的代表雲林縣長張麗善去參加海峽論壇這件事。請問您知道去年張麗善縣長去參加海峽論壇主要是做什麼嗎？他主要是去行銷雲林的農特產品，為我們弱勢的農漁民找出路。所以您現在說不建議我們這些政府官員出席，是不是針對這些農漁民，我們連幫他找出路、連幫他行銷農特產品都不能做了呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們是建議這樣，你如果挑海峽論壇去，它設定的統戰平臺，我們也想問……"],["許委員宇甄：它有設定不讓我們行銷農特產品嗎？沒有啊！張縣長也在海峽論壇公開發表時提到我們雲林有什麼特產。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想他可以挑其他的時間去啦。"],["許委員宇甄：為什麼不能這個時候去？"],["邱主任委員垂正：因為這是他張開來的一個統戰平台嘛，你沒有自主性，你就任他安排。"],["許委員宇甄：張麗善縣長提到要行銷我們的農特產品，大陸也沒有要求他不准說，所以這有什麼說我們還受到他的一些約束。剛剛主委一直提到我們要健康有序的交流，一直強調兩岸要交流，可是作法卻是背道而馳。那我請教一下，如果今年有縣市政府提出要去參加海峽論壇，您會不會核准？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我跟委員報告，我們是建議他不出席，但是他如果堅持要出席，我們就以相關的風險加以規勸，請他做好風險的準備。"],["許委員宇甄：所以如果他遵守相關規定的話，你是不是會核准？"],["邱主任委員垂正：要符合我們兩岸的規範，我們也會呼籲他要重視我們臺灣人的民意，注意社會觀感、國際視聽，共同來維護臺灣整體的利益。"],["許委員宇甄：也就是說只要剛剛您說的這些相關規定，我們的縣市政府只要符合了，跟你們申請的話，你們是會核准的，是嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們會看他申請的事由，比如要去推介農特產品，那我們就會問，你上次去推介農特產品，真的有賣得很好嗎？還是對岸口惠而實不至？"],["許委員宇甄：主委，賣得好不好，我覺得你陸委會也要負很大的責任，如果你不讓兩岸關係變成這樣兵凶戰危的話，也不會造成這樣的對立，所以我覺得你把這個問題丟出來，我覺得非常的失職，因為賣得好不好不是單方面的，我們還是要爭取每一個可以行銷農特產品的……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們希望兩岸正常、健康有序的交流……"],["許委員宇甄：對，但不是口中說一套……"],["邱主任委員垂正：應該去統戰化、去政治化。"],["許委員宇甄：不可以口中說一套，而是真正要拿出誠意來，好不好？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["許委員宇甄：我覺得農漁民已經非常弱勢了，好不容易有這麼大一個市場、這麼好的一個平台可以去行銷農特產品，請陸委會不要干擾，也不要斷了我們農漁民的生計。"],["邱主任委員垂正：斷的是中國大陸，他說斷就斷，讓農民血本無歸，這就是有風險……"],["許委員宇甄：如果兩岸交流能夠有互惠平等的話……"],["邱主任委員垂正：所以我們要跟地方政府講好風險在哪裡。"],["許委員宇甄：當然有風險，但是事實上我覺得只要合乎規定，你們不該不核准，好嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們會提醒，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員。","下一位請吳琪銘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-20","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","王美惠","李柏毅","張宏陸","黃捷","麥玉珍","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","李坤城","邱志偉","陳雪生","高金素梅","丁學忠"],"page_start":191,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145101_00006"}}}