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\"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 599.305, \"end\": 600.166, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"訪\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 600.166, \"end\": 600.286, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 600.286, \"end\": 600.447, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 600.447, \"end\": 600.527, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 600.527, \"end\": 601.127, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 601.127, \"end\": 601.468, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 601.468, \"end\": 602.689, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 602.689, \"end\": 602.789, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 602.789, \"end\": 603.05, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 603.05, \"end\": 603.27, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 603.27, \"end\": 603.831, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 603.831, \"end\": 603.991, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 603.991, \"end\": 604.471, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 604.471, \"end\": 604.591, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 604.591, \"end\": 604.611, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 604.611, \"end\": 604.631, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,263 --> 00:00:09,409\n謝謝主席我們請邱主委邱主委有請\n\n2\n00:00:15,197 --> 00:00:37,892\n主委好賴總統日前接受民敵選讀的專訪他有提到大公司跟小公司之間比喻兩岸關係我看了他接受專訪的原文他就說中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司如果你要變我的公司你要提條件\n\n3\n00:00:38,792 --> 00:01:03,660\n不是台灣的一體條件讓你說要或是不要而且還說你一定要變成我的一部分然後呢這個都沒有任何其他的做法這不行啦台灣是民主社會人民是國家的主人這人民不會接受的大概那段專訪的原文是這樣子那我想請教一下身為陸委會主委你怎麼去詮釋這個總統會提到這一段大公司跟小公司我覺得從兩岸互動來看就是對等尊嚴\n\n4\n00:01:05,305 --> 00:01:26,698\n而且還要真正有善意尤其現在兩岸的癥結之所在就是中國大陸不肯正視中華民國存在的客觀事實他提出了協商的前提就是在一中原則的九二共識\n\n5\n00:01:28,374 --> 00:01:44,445\n像這樣消滅中華民國,矮化台灣的政治前提,我們是沒有辦法接受的我想國人也無法接受我們每次民調都有超過七成以上的主流民意反對政府接受\n\n6\n00:01:45,478 --> 00:02:07,316\n中共的這個前提來與中國大陸做協商那當然兩岸就因此而無法官方互動所以我們就希望中國大陸還是要回到對等尊嚴的立場正視中華民國事實存在也要正視我們台灣人民對於民主生活的這個\n\n7\n00:02:09,734 --> 00:02:23,393\n這個強烈要求這樣才能夠促進兩岸良性互動最主要從這個比喻我覺得是要對台灣有善意那其實目前為止我們沒有看到善意的呈現是比較令人遺憾所以主委認為說總統這個比喻就是說\n\n8\n00:02:26,276 --> 00:02:44,307\n這個中國對台灣要有善意那台灣呢這就是由人民來決定台灣的前途啦這不是說你今天要併我然後你什麼條件都沒有講然後就是台灣一定要給中國那可是呢總統這個說法呢受到在野黨的批判說你這個是提統一的條件啊是提那個賣台啊你怎麼看\n\n9\n00:02:44,844 --> 00:03:00,098\n我想這個是過度解讀啦都沒有回到整個文本的脈絡去理解總統的談話那這樣的一些過度解讀我想是不必要的好那這個總統520談話嘛那大家也會期待說這個總統在這個就職一周年\n\n10\n00:03:06,297 --> 00:03:08,320\n在兩岸這方面會不會有談話談話內容大家會注意但是我們發現說這次總統520談話沒有主動提到兩岸的問題\n\n11\n00:03:19,877 --> 00:03:35,505\n然後呢這個是有記者在問的時候他在做回答那有時候說跟不說都有他的意涵在那你主委怎麼看就是說那這一次的這個520的這個就職一周年的總統的這個談話裡面沒有特別提到兩岸還是說因為在3月13號這個總統在這個國安會議之後已經有說過了這個國安的五大威脅還有17項的陰陰策略這個有這層關係嗎\n\n12\n00:03:44,640 --> 00:04:08,040\n我想總統從他上任以來有關他兩岸政策其實談的架構跟內容都蠻豐富的那特別你也提到這個3月13號也有因應中共這個國安威脅統戰的17項因應策略也不斷的在重申那也再度的強調兩岸應該要這個透過\n\n13\n00:04:14,052 --> 00:04:36,813\n如果說以人民福祉為念的話兩岸和平互利互惠共榮共存應該是我們努力的目標也應該透過對等尊嚴進行健康有序的交流跟對話共同迎向和平共榮的目標我想他這個善意不斷的提出來所以我們就呼籲中國大陸一定要正視\n\n14\n00:04:38,195 --> 00:04:55,491\n我們中華民國存在的客觀事實要傾聽去解讀用心解讀我們所傳達的善意讓兩岸能夠回到這個相向而行的這個途徑我想才能夠真正改變兩岸關係那你覺得中國那邊有聽到了嗎\n\n15\n00:04:56,980 --> 00:05:15,527\n我想就讓他慢慢的去改變畢竟他是一個極權專制的體制他過去對台的政策向來也沒有改變他不改變他的那個僵化思維那我們就要有戰略定力我們不斷的去影響他那隨著國內\n\n16\n00:05:17,048 --> 00:05:29,924\n他內外部的影響我們希望我們能夠營造一個善良方理性方能夠希望他能夠真正的面對台灣能夠用\n\n17\n00:05:31,906 --> 00:05:58,401\n就是對等尊嚴的立場來跟我們交流互動官方互動可能比較困難但是民間的互動應該把它正常化那我們在17項因應的策略也強調我們希望跟中國大陸進行各種健康有序的交流我們希望能夠去統戰化那麼去政治化去風險化讓我們很多民眾\n\n18\n00:05:59,321 --> 00:06:18,927\n去中國大陸也能夠在維護他的安全的情況底下做好各種的提醒讓兩岸的交流沒有這些風險要降低風險這就是我們努力的目標所以我們不是不交流我們是怕沒有正常健康與有序交流的機會所以主委認為總統在520\n\n19\n00:06:21,548 --> 00:06:36,751\n就是週年談話沒有特別提到這個兩岸問題沒有什麼特別的含義就對了該講的之前都已經有提過了是好那我最後再問一個就是說根據這個陸委會的臉書這個就是說從去年1月到今年的4月30號有102名國人赴中國大陸在失聯遭留置盤查或是關押那請問一下這個數字102人他目前的樣態是怎麼樣\n\n20\n00:06:48,314 --> 00:07:11,077\n是失聯了還是被關押了還是說是怎麼樣這個有沒有進一步的訊息跟委員報告我們這個數字都是來跟我們報案的也有跟海基會報案那這個數字我們都有在統計這是有報案的數字對但是我要跟委員報告沒有報案的數字搞不好更多\n\n21\n00:07:11,584 --> 00:07:34,909\n你認為那個黑數大概有多少?我覺得那個黑數可能是相當驚人的那這是有公文報案的相當驚人是十倍還是百倍?這個很難評估不過我們相信沒有報案的應該更多不過我願意在這個報案裡面相關的樣態跟文報告約州司連的部分在這個102個有12位\n\n22\n00:07:38,010 --> 00:08:00,089\n遭這個留置盤查的有13位那遭陸方關押的有70位目前是這些關押有70位是那他們的理由是什麼有各種比如說詐騙案件或其他的刑事案件或者是一些國安案件也是包括或是參加宗教活動\n\n23\n00:08:01,190 --> 00:08:19,327\n因這個法律被關押的也有人所以這些案件加起來有70人那我要跟委員報告剛剛也提到了這個黑數更多沒有跟我們報案更多所以我們那這部分該怎麼去處理\n\n24\n00:08:20,827 --> 00:08:43,613\n我們很重視我們國人賦入的人身安全這是最重要的因為中國大陸一直吸納我們的民眾賦入招待啦各種的統戰活動但是那個安全也是需要關注特別在成都二十二條之後國人賦入的安全是明顯的升高連我們的一貫道親戚\n\n25\n00:08:46,674 --> 00:09:14,441\n交流那現在還沒回來那所以我們要呼籲國人啊赴陸一定要有安全的思考要審慎的評估做好安全的準備如果你還是要去的話一定要像上我們陸委會陸港澳赴陸港澳登陸的系統你有登陸的資訊多一份登陸就多一份安全萬一有什麼事情我們可以找到聯繫的方式提供及時的援助\n\n26\n00:09:14,701 --> 00:09:18,305\n我們還是透過管道過去我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及私保互助的機制\n\n27\n00:09:29,718 --> 00:09:50,056\n那麼雖然陸方往往用政治理由無法讓這個機制產生作用但是我們還是透過各種可能的管道去關切是不是會在關家那邊也希望陸方要重視這些人的司法人權也要跟他在台家屬這個聯繫那我們陸委會\n\n28\n00:09:54,059 --> 00:10:04,631\n海基會都有一個專案會去每一個家庭去做各種的訪問提供必要的協助時間有限先問到這邊謝謝主席謝謝主委謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7263\t9409\t謝謝主席我們請邱主委邱主委有請\n15197\t37892\t主委好 賴總統日前接受民敵選讀的專訪他有提到大公司跟小公司之間比喻兩岸關係我看了他接受專訪的原文他就說中國是比較大的公司 台灣是比較小的公司如果你要變我的公司 你要提條件\n38792\t63660\t不是台灣的一體條件 讓你說要或是不要 而且還說你一定要變成我的一部分然後呢 這個都沒有任何其他的做法這不行啦 台灣是民主社會 人民是國家的主人這人民不會接受的 大概那段專訪的原文是這樣子那我想請教一下 身為陸委會主委 你怎麼去詮釋這個總統會提到這一段 大公司跟小公司我覺得從兩岸互動來看 就是對等尊嚴\n65305\t86698\t而且還要真正有善意尤其現在兩岸的癥結之所在就是中國大陸不肯正視中華民國存在的客觀事實他提出了協商的前提就是在一中原則的九二共識\n88374\t104445\t像這樣消滅中華民國,矮化台灣的政治前提,我們是沒有辦法接受的我想國人也無法接受我們每次民調都有超過七成以上的主流民意反對政府接受\n105478\t127316\t中共的這個前提來與中國大陸做協商那當然兩岸就因此而無法官方互動所以我們就希望中國大陸還是要回到對等尊嚴的立場正視中華民國事實存在也要正視我們台灣人民對於民主生活的這個\n129734\t143393\t這個強烈要求這樣才能夠促進兩岸良性互動最主要從這個比喻我覺得是要對台灣有善意那其實目前為止我們沒有看到善意的呈現是比較令人遺憾所以主委認為說總統這個比喻就是說\n146276\t164307\t這個中國對台灣要有善意 那台灣呢 這就是由人民來決定台灣的前途啦這不是說你今天要併我 然後你什麼條件都沒有講 然後就是台灣一定要給中國那可是呢 總統這個說法呢 受到在野黨的批判說你這個是提統一的條件啊 是提那個賣台啊 你怎麼看\n164844\t180098\t我想這個是過度解讀啦都沒有回到整個文本的脈絡去理解總統的談話那這樣的一些過度解讀我想是不必要的好 那這個總統520談話嘛那大家也會期待說這個總統在這個就職一周年\n186297\t188320\t在兩岸這方面會不會有談話談話內容大家會注意但是我們發現說這次總統520談話沒有主動提到兩岸的問題\n199877\t215505\t然後呢 這個是有記者在問的時候 他在做回答那有時候說跟不說 都有他的意涵在那你主委怎麼看就是說那這一次的這個520的這個就職一周年的總統的這個談話裡面沒有特別提到兩岸還是說 因為在3月13號這個總統在這個國安會議之後已經有說過了這個國安的五大威脅還有17項的陰陰策略這個有這層關係嗎\n224640\t248040\t我想總統從他上任以來有關他兩岸政策其實談的架構跟內容都蠻豐富的那特別你也提到這個3月13號也有因應中共這個國安威脅統戰的17項因應策略也不斷的在重申那也再度的強調兩岸應該要這個透過\n254052\t276813\t如果說以人民福祉為念的話兩岸和平互利互惠共榮共存應該是我們努力的目標也應該透過對等尊嚴進行健康有序的交流跟對話共同迎向和平共榮的目標我想他這個善意不斷的提出來所以我們就呼籲中國大陸一定要正視\n278195\t295491\t我們中華民國存在的客觀事實要傾聽去解讀用心解讀我們所傳達的善意讓兩岸能夠回到這個相向而行的這個途徑我想才能夠真正改變兩岸關係那你覺得中國那邊有聽到了嗎\n296980\t315527\t我想就讓他慢慢的去改變畢竟他是一個極權專制的體制他過去對台的政策向來也沒有改變他不改變他的那個僵化思維那我們就要有戰略定力我們不斷的去影響他那隨著國內\n317048\t329924\t他內外部的影響我們希望我們能夠營造一個善良方 理性方能夠希望他能夠真正的面對台灣能夠用\n331906\t358401\t就是對等尊嚴的立場來跟我們交流互動官方互動可能比較困難但是民間的互動應該把它正常化那我們在17項因應的策略也強調我們希望跟中國大陸進行各種健康有序的交流我們希望能夠去統戰化那麼去政治化去風險化讓我們很多民眾\n359321\t378927\t去中國大陸也能夠在維護他的安全的情況底下做好各種的提醒讓兩岸的交流沒有這些風險要降低風險這就是我們努力的目標所以我們不是不交流我們是怕沒有正常健康與有序交流的機會所以主委認為總統在520\n381548\t396751\t就是週年談話沒有特別提到這個兩岸問題沒有什麼特別的含義就對了該講的之前都已經有提過了是好 那我最後再問一個就是說根據這個陸委會的臉書這個就是說從去年1月到今年的4月30號有102名國人赴中國大陸在失聯遭留置盤查或是關押那請問一下這個數字102人他目前的樣態是怎麼樣\n408314\t431077\t是失聯了還是被關押了還是說是怎麼樣這個有沒有進一步的訊息跟委員報告我們這個數字都是來跟我們報案的也有跟海基會報案那這個數字我們都有在統計這是有報案的數字對 但是我要跟委員報告沒有報案的數字搞不好更多\n431584\t454909\t你認為那個黑數大概有多少?我覺得那個黑數可能是相當驚人的那這是有公文報案的相當驚人是十倍還是百倍?這個很難評估不過我們相信沒有報案的應該更多不過我願意在這個報案裡面相關的樣態跟文報告約州司連的部分在這個102個有12位\n458010\t480089\t遭這個留置盤查的有13位那遭陸方關押的有70位目前是這些關押有70位是那他們的理由是什麼有各種比如說詐騙案件或其他的刑事案件或者是一些國安案件也是包括或是參加宗教活動\n481190\t499327\t因這個法律被關押的也有人所以這些案件加起來有70人那我要跟委員報告剛剛也提到了這個黑數更多沒有跟我們報案更多所以我們那這部分該怎麼去處理\n500827\t523613\t我們很重視我們國人賦入的人身安全這是最重要的因為中國大陸一直吸納我們的民眾賦入招待啦 各種的統戰活動但是那個安全也是需要關注特別在成都二十二條之後國人賦入的安全是明顯的升高連我們的一貫道親戚\n526674\t554441\t交流那現在還沒回來那所以我們要呼籲國人啊 赴陸一定要有安全的思考要審慎的評估做好安全的準備如果你還是要去的話一定要像上我們陸委會陸港澳赴陸港澳登陸的系統你有登陸的資訊多一份登陸就多一份安全萬一有什麼事情我們可以找到聯繫的方式提供及時的援助\n554701\t558305\t我們還是透過管道過去我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及私保互助的機制\n569718\t590056\t那麼雖然陸方往往用政治理由無法讓這個機制產生作用但是我們還是透過各種可能的管道去關切是不是會在關家那邊也希望陸方要重視這些人的司法人權也要跟他在台家屬這個聯繫那我們陸委會\n594059\t604631\t海基會都有一個專案會去每一個家庭去做各種的訪問提供必要的協助時間有限先問到這邊謝謝主席謝謝主委謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請邱主委邱主委有請\n主委好 賴總統日前接受民敵選讀的專訪他有提到大公司跟小公司之間比喻兩岸關係我看了他接受專訪的原文他就說中國是比較大的公司 台灣是比較小的公司如果你要變我的公司 你要提條件\n不是台灣的一體條件 讓你說要或是不要 而且還說你一定要變成我的一部分然後呢 這個都沒有任何其他的做法這不行啦 台灣是民主社會 人民是國家的主人這人民不會接受的 大概那段專訪的原文是這樣子那我想請教一下 身為陸委會主委 你怎麼去詮釋這個總統會提到這一段 大公司跟小公司我覺得從兩岸互動來看 就是對等尊嚴\n而且還要真正有善意尤其現在兩岸的癥結之所在就是中國大陸不肯正視中華民國存在的客觀事實他提出了協商的前提就是在一中原則的九二共識\n像這樣消滅中華民國,矮化台灣的政治前提,我們是沒有辦法接受的我想國人也無法接受我們每次民調都有超過七成以上的主流民意反對政府接受\n中共的這個前提來與中國大陸做協商那當然兩岸就因此而無法官方互動所以我們就希望中國大陸還是要回到對等尊嚴的立場正視中華民國事實存在也要正視我們台灣人民對於民主生活的這個\n這個強烈要求這樣才能夠促進兩岸良性互動最主要從這個比喻我覺得是要對台灣有善意那其實目前為止我們沒有看到善意的呈現是比較令人遺憾所以主委認為說總統這個比喻就是說\n這個中國對台灣要有善意 那台灣呢 這就是由人民來決定台灣的前途啦這不是說你今天要併我 然後你什麼條件都沒有講 然後就是台灣一定要給中國那可是呢 總統這個說法呢 受到在野黨的批判說你這個是提統一的條件啊 是提那個賣台啊 你怎麼看\n我想這個是過度解讀啦都沒有回到整個文本的脈絡去理解總統的談話那這樣的一些過度解讀我想是不必要的好 那這個總統520談話嘛那大家也會期待說這個總統在這個就職一周年\n在兩岸這方面會不會有談話談話內容大家會注意但是我們發現說這次總統520談話沒有主動提到兩岸的問題\n然後呢 這個是有記者在問的時候 他在做回答那有時候說跟不說 都有他的意涵在那你主委怎麼看就是說那這一次的這個520的這個就職一周年的總統的這個談話裡面沒有特別提到兩岸還是說 因為在3月13號這個總統在這個國安會議之後已經有說過了這個國安的五大威脅還有17項的陰陰策略這個有這層關係嗎\n我想總統從他上任以來有關他兩岸政策其實談的架構跟內容都蠻豐富的那特別你也提到這個3月13號也有因應中共這個國安威脅統戰的17項因應策略也不斷的在重申那也再度的強調兩岸應該要這個透過\n如果說以人民福祉為念的話兩岸和平互利互惠共榮共存應該是我們努力的目標也應該透過對等尊嚴進行健康有序的交流跟對話共同迎向和平共榮的目標我想他這個善意不斷的提出來所以我們就呼籲中國大陸一定要正視\n我們中華民國存在的客觀事實要傾聽去解讀用心解讀我們所傳達的善意讓兩岸能夠回到這個相向而行的這個途徑我想才能夠真正改變兩岸關係那你覺得中國那邊有聽到了嗎\n我想就讓他慢慢的去改變畢竟他是一個極權專制的體制他過去對台的政策向來也沒有改變他不改變他的那個僵化思維那我們就要有戰略定力我們不斷的去影響他那隨著國內\n他內外部的影響我們希望我們能夠營造一個善良方 理性方能夠希望他能夠真正的面對台灣能夠用\n就是對等尊嚴的立場來跟我們交流互動官方互動可能比較困難但是民間的互動應該把它正常化那我們在17項因應的策略也強調我們希望跟中國大陸進行各種健康有序的交流我們希望能夠去統戰化那麼去政治化去風險化讓我們很多民眾\n去中國大陸也能夠在維護他的安全的情況底下做好各種的提醒讓兩岸的交流沒有這些風險要降低風險這就是我們努力的目標所以我們不是不交流我們是怕沒有正常健康與有序交流的機會所以主委認為總統在520\n就是週年談話沒有特別提到這個兩岸問題沒有什麼特別的含義就對了該講的之前都已經有提過了是好 那我最後再問一個就是說根據這個陸委會的臉書這個就是說從去年1月到今年的4月30號有102名國人赴中國大陸在失聯遭留置盤查或是關押那請問一下這個數字102人他目前的樣態是怎麼樣\n是失聯了還是被關押了還是說是怎麼樣這個有沒有進一步的訊息跟委員報告我們這個數字都是來跟我們報案的也有跟海基會報案那這個數字我們都有在統計這是有報案的數字對 但是我要跟委員報告沒有報案的數字搞不好更多\n你認為那個黑數大概有多少?我覺得那個黑數可能是相當驚人的那這是有公文報案的相當驚人是十倍還是百倍?這個很難評估不過我們相信沒有報案的應該更多不過我願意在這個報案裡面相關的樣態跟文報告約州司連的部分在這個102個有12位\n遭這個留置盤查的有13位那遭陸方關押的有70位目前是這些關押有70位是那他們的理由是什麼有各種比如說詐騙案件或其他的刑事案件或者是一些國安案件也是包括或是參加宗教活動\n因這個法律被關押的也有人所以這些案件加起來有70人那我要跟委員報告剛剛也提到了這個黑數更多沒有跟我們報案更多所以我們那這部分該怎麼去處理\n我們很重視我們國人賦入的人身安全這是最重要的因為中國大陸一直吸納我們的民眾賦入招待啦 各種的統戰活動但是那個安全也是需要關注特別在成都二十二條之後國人賦入的安全是明顯的升高連我們的一貫道親戚\n交流那現在還沒回來那所以我們要呼籲國人啊 赴陸一定要有安全的思考要審慎的評估做好安全的準備如果你還是要去的話一定要像上我們陸委會陸港澳赴陸港澳登陸的系統你有登陸的資訊多一份登陸就多一份安全萬一有什麼事情我們可以找到聯繫的方式提供及時的援助\n我們還是透過管道過去我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及私保互助的機制\n那麼雖然陸方往往用政治理由無法讓這個機制產生作用但是我們還是透過各種可能的管道去關切是不是會在關家那邊也希望陸方要重視這些人的司法人權也要跟他在台家屬這個聯繫那我們陸委會\n海基會都有一個專案會去每一個家庭去做各種的訪問提供必要的協助時間有限先問到這邊謝謝主席謝謝主委謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.263 --> 00:09.409\n謝謝主席我們請邱主委邱主委有請\n\n00:15.197 --> 00:37.892\n主委好賴總統日前接受民敵選讀的專訪他有提到大公司跟小公司之間比喻兩岸關係我看了他接受專訪的原文他就說中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司如果你要變我的公司你要提條件\n\n00:38.792 --> 01:03.660\n不是台灣的一體條件讓你說要或是不要而且還說你一定要變成我的一部分然後呢這個都沒有任何其他的做法這不行啦台灣是民主社會人民是國家的主人這人民不會接受的大概那段專訪的原文是這樣子那我想請教一下身為陸委會主委你怎麼去詮釋這個總統會提到這一段大公司跟小公司我覺得從兩岸互動來看就是對等尊嚴\n\n01:05.305 --> 01:26.698\n而且還要真正有善意尤其現在兩岸的癥結之所在就是中國大陸不肯正視中華民國存在的客觀事實他提出了協商的前提就是在一中原則的九二共識\n\n01:28.374 --> 01:44.445\n像這樣消滅中華民國,矮化台灣的政治前提,我們是沒有辦法接受的我想國人也無法接受我們每次民調都有超過七成以上的主流民意反對政府接受\n\n01:45.478 --> 02:07.316\n中共的這個前提來與中國大陸做協商那當然兩岸就因此而無法官方互動所以我們就希望中國大陸還是要回到對等尊嚴的立場正視中華民國事實存在也要正視我們台灣人民對於民主生活的這個\n\n02:09.734 --> 02:23.393\n這個強烈要求這樣才能夠促進兩岸良性互動最主要從這個比喻我覺得是要對台灣有善意那其實目前為止我們沒有看到善意的呈現是比較令人遺憾所以主委認為說總統這個比喻就是說\n\n02:26.276 --> 02:44.307\n這個中國對台灣要有善意那台灣呢這就是由人民來決定台灣的前途啦這不是說你今天要併我然後你什麼條件都沒有講然後就是台灣一定要給中國那可是呢總統這個說法呢受到在野黨的批判說你這個是提統一的條件啊是提那個賣台啊你怎麼看\n\n02:44.844 --> 03:00.098\n我想這個是過度解讀啦都沒有回到整個文本的脈絡去理解總統的談話那這樣的一些過度解讀我想是不必要的好那這個總統520談話嘛那大家也會期待說這個總統在這個就職一周年\n\n03:06.297 --> 03:08.320\n在兩岸這方面會不會有談話談話內容大家會注意但是我們發現說這次總統520談話沒有主動提到兩岸的問題\n\n03:19.877 --> 03:35.505\n然後呢這個是有記者在問的時候他在做回答那有時候說跟不說都有他的意涵在那你主委怎麼看就是說那這一次的這個520的這個就職一周年的總統的這個談話裡面沒有特別提到兩岸還是說因為在3月13號這個總統在這個國安會議之後已經有說過了這個國安的五大威脅還有17項的陰陰策略這個有這層關係嗎\n\n03:44.640 --> 04:08.040\n我想總統從他上任以來有關他兩岸政策其實談的架構跟內容都蠻豐富的那特別你也提到這個3月13號也有因應中共這個國安威脅統戰的17項因應策略也不斷的在重申那也再度的強調兩岸應該要這個透過\n\n04:14.052 --> 04:36.813\n如果說以人民福祉為念的話兩岸和平互利互惠共榮共存應該是我們努力的目標也應該透過對等尊嚴進行健康有序的交流跟對話共同迎向和平共榮的目標我想他這個善意不斷的提出來所以我們就呼籲中國大陸一定要正視\n\n04:38.195 --> 04:55.491\n我們中華民國存在的客觀事實要傾聽去解讀用心解讀我們所傳達的善意讓兩岸能夠回到這個相向而行的這個途徑我想才能夠真正改變兩岸關係那你覺得中國那邊有聽到了嗎\n\n04:56.980 --> 05:15.527\n我想就讓他慢慢的去改變畢竟他是一個極權專制的體制他過去對台的政策向來也沒有改變他不改變他的那個僵化思維那我們就要有戰略定力我們不斷的去影響他那隨著國內\n\n05:17.048 --> 05:29.924\n他內外部的影響我們希望我們能夠營造一個善良方理性方能夠希望他能夠真正的面對台灣能夠用\n\n05:31.906 --> 05:58.401\n就是對等尊嚴的立場來跟我們交流互動官方互動可能比較困難但是民間的互動應該把它正常化那我們在17項因應的策略也強調我們希望跟中國大陸進行各種健康有序的交流我們希望能夠去統戰化那麼去政治化去風險化讓我們很多民眾\n\n05:59.321 --> 06:18.927\n去中國大陸也能夠在維護他的安全的情況底下做好各種的提醒讓兩岸的交流沒有這些風險要降低風險這就是我們努力的目標所以我們不是不交流我們是怕沒有正常健康與有序交流的機會所以主委認為總統在520\n\n06:21.548 --> 06:36.751\n就是週年談話沒有特別提到這個兩岸問題沒有什麼特別的含義就對了該講的之前都已經有提過了是好那我最後再問一個就是說根據這個陸委會的臉書這個就是說從去年1月到今年的4月30號有102名國人赴中國大陸在失聯遭留置盤查或是關押那請問一下這個數字102人他目前的樣態是怎麼樣\n\n06:48.314 --> 07:11.077\n是失聯了還是被關押了還是說是怎麼樣這個有沒有進一步的訊息跟委員報告我們這個數字都是來跟我們報案的也有跟海基會報案那這個數字我們都有在統計這是有報案的數字對但是我要跟委員報告沒有報案的數字搞不好更多\n\n07:11.584 --> 07:34.909\n你認為那個黑數大概有多少?我覺得那個黑數可能是相當驚人的那這是有公文報案的相當驚人是十倍還是百倍?這個很難評估不過我們相信沒有報案的應該更多不過我願意在這個報案裡面相關的樣態跟文報告約州司連的部分在這個102個有12位\n\n07:38.010 --> 08:00.089\n遭這個留置盤查的有13位那遭陸方關押的有70位目前是這些關押有70位是那他們的理由是什麼有各種比如說詐騙案件或其他的刑事案件或者是一些國安案件也是包括或是參加宗教活動\n\n08:01.190 --> 08:19.327\n因這個法律被關押的也有人所以這些案件加起來有70人那我要跟委員報告剛剛也提到了這個黑數更多沒有跟我們報案更多所以我們那這部分該怎麼去處理\n\n08:20.827 --> 08:43.613\n我們很重視我們國人賦入的人身安全這是最重要的因為中國大陸一直吸納我們的民眾賦入招待啦各種的統戰活動但是那個安全也是需要關注特別在成都二十二條之後國人賦入的安全是明顯的升高連我們的一貫道親戚\n\n08:46.674 --> 09:14.441\n交流那現在還沒回來那所以我們要呼籲國人啊赴陸一定要有安全的思考要審慎的評估做好安全的準備如果你還是要去的話一定要像上我們陸委會陸港澳赴陸港澳登陸的系統你有登陸的資訊多一份登陸就多一份安全萬一有什麼事情我們可以找到聯繫的方式提供及時的援助\n\n09:14.701 --> 09:18.305\n我們還是透過管道過去我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及私保互助的機制\n\n09:29.718 --> 09:50.056\n那麼雖然陸方往往用政治理由無法讓這個機制產生作用但是我們還是透過各種可能的管道去關切是不是會在關家那邊也希望陸方要重視這些人的司法人權也要跟他在台家屬這個聯繫那我們陸委會\n\n09:54.059 --> 10:04.631\n海基會都有一個專案會去每一個家庭去做各種的訪問提供必要的協助時間有限先問到這邊謝謝主席謝謝主委謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.263,"end":9.409,"text":"謝謝主席我們請邱主委邱主委有請"},{"start":15.197,"end":37.892,"text":"主委好 賴總統日前接受民敵選讀的專訪他有提到大公司跟小公司之間比喻兩岸關係我看了他接受專訪的原文他就說中國是比較大的公司 台灣是比較小的公司如果你要變我的公司 你要提條件"},{"start":38.792,"end":63.66,"text":"不是台灣的一體條件 讓你說要或是不要 而且還說你一定要變成我的一部分然後呢 這個都沒有任何其他的做法這不行啦 台灣是民主社會 人民是國家的主人這人民不會接受的 大概那段專訪的原文是這樣子那我想請教一下 身為陸委會主委 你怎麼去詮釋這個總統會提到這一段 大公司跟小公司我覺得從兩岸互動來看 就是對等尊嚴"},{"start":65.305,"end":86.698,"text":"而且還要真正有善意尤其現在兩岸的癥結之所在就是中國大陸不肯正視中華民國存在的客觀事實他提出了協商的前提就是在一中原則的九二共識"},{"start":88.374,"end":104.445,"text":"像這樣消滅中華民國,矮化台灣的政治前提,我們是沒有辦法接受的我想國人也無法接受我們每次民調都有超過七成以上的主流民意反對政府接受"},{"start":105.478,"end":127.316,"text":"中共的這個前提來與中國大陸做協商那當然兩岸就因此而無法官方互動所以我們就希望中國大陸還是要回到對等尊嚴的立場正視中華民國事實存在也要正視我們台灣人民對於民主生活的這個"},{"start":129.734,"end":143.393,"text":"這個強烈要求這樣才能夠促進兩岸良性互動最主要從這個比喻我覺得是要對台灣有善意那其實目前為止我們沒有看到善意的呈現是比較令人遺憾所以主委認為說總統這個比喻就是說"},{"start":146.276,"end":164.307,"text":"這個中國對台灣要有善意 那台灣呢 這就是由人民來決定台灣的前途啦這不是說你今天要併我 然後你什麼條件都沒有講 然後就是台灣一定要給中國那可是呢 總統這個說法呢 受到在野黨的批判說你這個是提統一的條件啊 是提那個賣台啊 你怎麼看"},{"start":164.844,"end":180.098,"text":"我想這個是過度解讀啦都沒有回到整個文本的脈絡去理解總統的談話那這樣的一些過度解讀我想是不必要的好 那這個總統520談話嘛那大家也會期待說這個總統在這個就職一周年"},{"start":186.297,"end":188.32,"text":"在兩岸這方面會不會有談話談話內容大家會注意但是我們發現說這次總統520談話沒有主動提到兩岸的問題"},{"start":199.877,"end":215.505,"text":"然後呢 這個是有記者在問的時候 他在做回答那有時候說跟不說 都有他的意涵在那你主委怎麼看就是說那這一次的這個520的這個就職一周年的總統的這個談話裡面沒有特別提到兩岸還是說 因為在3月13號這個總統在這個國安會議之後已經有說過了這個國安的五大威脅還有17項的陰陰策略這個有這層關係嗎"},{"start":224.64,"end":248.04,"text":"我想總統從他上任以來有關他兩岸政策其實談的架構跟內容都蠻豐富的那特別你也提到這個3月13號也有因應中共這個國安威脅統戰的17項因應策略也不斷的在重申那也再度的強調兩岸應該要這個透過"},{"start":254.052,"end":276.813,"text":"如果說以人民福祉為念的話兩岸和平互利互惠共榮共存應該是我們努力的目標也應該透過對等尊嚴進行健康有序的交流跟對話共同迎向和平共榮的目標我想他這個善意不斷的提出來所以我們就呼籲中國大陸一定要正視"},{"start":278.195,"end":295.491,"text":"我們中華民國存在的客觀事實要傾聽去解讀用心解讀我們所傳達的善意讓兩岸能夠回到這個相向而行的這個途徑我想才能夠真正改變兩岸關係那你覺得中國那邊有聽到了嗎"},{"start":296.98,"end":315.527,"text":"我想就讓他慢慢的去改變畢竟他是一個極權專制的體制他過去對台的政策向來也沒有改變他不改變他的那個僵化思維那我們就要有戰略定力我們不斷的去影響他那隨著國內"},{"start":317.048,"end":329.924,"text":"他內外部的影響我們希望我們能夠營造一個善良方 理性方能夠希望他能夠真正的面對台灣能夠用"},{"start":331.906,"end":358.401,"text":"就是對等尊嚴的立場來跟我們交流互動官方互動可能比較困難但是民間的互動應該把它正常化那我們在17項因應的策略也強調我們希望跟中國大陸進行各種健康有序的交流我們希望能夠去統戰化那麼去政治化去風險化讓我們很多民眾"},{"start":359.321,"end":378.927,"text":"去中國大陸也能夠在維護他的安全的情況底下做好各種的提醒讓兩岸的交流沒有這些風險要降低風險這就是我們努力的目標所以我們不是不交流我們是怕沒有正常健康與有序交流的機會所以主委認為總統在520"},{"start":381.548,"end":396.751,"text":"就是週年談話沒有特別提到這個兩岸問題沒有什麼特別的含義就對了該講的之前都已經有提過了是好 那我最後再問一個就是說根據這個陸委會的臉書這個就是說從去年1月到今年的4月30號有102名國人赴中國大陸在失聯遭留置盤查或是關押那請問一下這個數字102人他目前的樣態是怎麼樣"},{"start":408.314,"end":431.077,"text":"是失聯了還是被關押了還是說是怎麼樣這個有沒有進一步的訊息跟委員報告我們這個數字都是來跟我們報案的也有跟海基會報案那這個數字我們都有在統計這是有報案的數字對 但是我要跟委員報告沒有報案的數字搞不好更多"},{"start":431.584,"end":454.909,"text":"你認為那個黑數大概有多少?我覺得那個黑數可能是相當驚人的那這是有公文報案的相當驚人是十倍還是百倍?這個很難評估不過我們相信沒有報案的應該更多不過我願意在這個報案裡面相關的樣態跟文報告約州司連的部分在這個102個有12位"},{"start":458.01,"end":480.089,"text":"遭這個留置盤查的有13位那遭陸方關押的有70位目前是這些關押有70位是那他們的理由是什麼有各種比如說詐騙案件或其他的刑事案件或者是一些國安案件也是包括或是參加宗教活動"},{"start":481.19,"end":499.327,"text":"因這個法律被關押的也有人所以這些案件加起來有70人那我要跟委員報告剛剛也提到了這個黑數更多沒有跟我們報案更多所以我們那這部分該怎麼去處理"},{"start":500.827,"end":523.613,"text":"我們很重視我們國人賦入的人身安全這是最重要的因為中國大陸一直吸納我們的民眾賦入招待啦 各種的統戰活動但是那個安全也是需要關注特別在成都二十二條之後國人賦入的安全是明顯的升高連我們的一貫道親戚"},{"start":526.674,"end":554.441,"text":"交流那現在還沒回來那所以我們要呼籲國人啊 赴陸一定要有安全的思考要審慎的評估做好安全的準備如果你還是要去的話一定要像上我們陸委會陸港澳赴陸港澳登陸的系統你有登陸的資訊多一份登陸就多一份安全萬一有什麼事情我們可以找到聯繫的方式提供及時的援助"},{"start":554.701,"end":558.305,"text":"我們還是透過管道過去我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及私保互助的機制"},{"start":569.718,"end":590.056,"text":"那麼雖然陸方往往用政治理由無法讓這個機制產生作用但是我們還是透過各種可能的管道去關切是不是會在關家那邊也希望陸方要重視這些人的司法人權也要跟他在台家屬這個聯繫那我們陸委會"},{"start":594.059,"end":604.631,"text":"海基會都有一個專案會去每一個家庭去做各種的訪問提供必要的協助時間有限先問到這邊謝謝主席謝謝主委謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":824,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時57分）謝謝主席。我們請邱主委。"],["主席：邱主委有請。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：主委好。賴總統日前接受敏迪選讀Podcast的專訪，他有提到用大公司與小公司來比喻兩岸關係。我看了他的原文，他說「中國是比較大的公司，臺灣是比較小的公司，如果你要併我的公司，你要提條件，不是臺灣來提條件，讓你說要或是不要，而且還說，你一定要變成我的一部分，然後都沒有任何其他的做法，這不行啦，臺灣是民主社會，人民是國家的主人，這人民不會接受的。」那段專訪的原文大概是這樣，我想請問主委，身為陸委會主委，您怎麼詮釋總統這一段大公司跟小公司合併的問題？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我覺得從兩岸互動來看，就是對等尊嚴，而且還要真正有善意。尤其現在兩岸的癥結所在，就是中國大陸不肯正視中華民國存在的客觀事實。他提出協商的前提，就是在一中原則的九二共識，像這樣消滅中華民國、矮化臺灣的政治前提，我們是無法接受的，我想國人也無法接受。","根據我們每次的民調，超過七成以上的主流民意，都反對政府接受中共的這些前提來進行協商。當然兩岸就因此無法官方互動，所以我們希望中國大陸要回到對等尊嚴的立場，正視中華民國存在的事實，也要正視我們臺灣人民對於民主生活的強烈要求，這樣才能夠促進兩岸良性互動。最主要從這個比喻，我覺得是要對臺灣有善意，截至目前為止，我們沒有看到善意的呈現，這比較令人遺憾。"],["李委員坤城：所以主委認為，總統這個比喻是希望中國對臺灣要有善意，臺灣的前途應由人民決定，而不是說你今天要併我，什麼條件都沒有講，就要求臺灣一定要給中國。可是總統這個說法受到在野黨的批判，說這是在提統一的條件，甚至說是賣臺，您怎麼看？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想這個是過度解讀，都沒有回到整個文本的脈絡，去理解總統的談話。這些過度的解讀，我想是不必要的。"],["李委員坤城：好，那總統520的談話，大家也會期待總統在就職一週年，會不會有兩岸方面的談話內容。但是我們發現這次總統520的談話，沒有主動提到兩岸問題，是有記者問的時候他才回答。有時候說跟不說都有他的意涵，主委怎麼看？這一次520就職一週年的談話裡面，總統沒有特別提到兩岸，還是因為在3月13日，總統在國安會議之後，已經有說過國安五大威脅，還有17項的因應策略，有這層關係嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想總統從上任以來，有關對兩岸政策的談話，其實架構跟內容都滿豐富的。你也特別提到3月13日有針對中共的國安威脅與統戰，提出17項因應策略，也不斷的重申並再度強調，兩岸應該要以人民福祉為念，兩岸和平、互利互惠、共榮共存，應該是我們努力的目標。也應該透過對等尊嚴，進行健康有序的交流跟對話，共同迎向和平共榮的目標。我想善意已經不斷的提出來，所以呼籲中國大陸一定要正視我們中華民國存在的客觀事實，要傾聽並用心解讀我們所傳達的善意，讓兩岸能夠回到相向而行的途徑，才能夠真正改變兩岸關係。"],["李委員坤城：你覺得中國那邊有聽到嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想就讓它慢慢的去改變，畢竟它是一個極權專制的體制，過去對臺的政策，向來也沒有改變。它不改變僵化思維，那我們就要有戰略定力。我們不斷的去影響它，隨著它內外部的影響，我們希望能夠營造一個善良方、理性方，讓他能真正面對臺灣，用對等尊嚴的立場來跟我們交流互動。官方互動可能比較困難，但是民間的互動應該正常化。我們在17項因應策略也強調，希望跟中國大陸進行各種健康有序的交流，希望能夠去統戰化、去政治化，去風險化，讓民眾去中國大陸也能夠在維護他的安全情況下，做好各種提醒，讓兩岸的交流降低風險，這就是我們努力的目標。所以我們不是不交流，是怕沒有正常健康有序的交流機會。"],["李委員坤城：所以主委認為，總統在520就職週年談話，沒有特別提到兩岸的問題，沒有特別涵義就對了，該講的之前都已經有提過了？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["李委員坤城：最後再問一個問題，根據陸委會的臉書，從去年1月到今年的4月30日，有102名國人赴中國大陸失聯、遭留置盤查或是關押。請問這102人目前的樣態是怎麼樣？是失聯還是被關押？有沒有進一步的訊息？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，這個數字是來跟我們或海基會報案的人數，我們都有統計。"],["李委員坤城：這是有報案的數字？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，但是我要跟委員報告，沒有報案的數字搞不好更多。"],["李委員坤城：你認為那個黑數大概有多少？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我覺得這個黑數可能相當驚人，這是有跟我們報案的……"],["李委員坤城：相當驚人是十倍還是百倍？"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個很難評估，不過我們相信，沒有報案的應該更多。我願意將報案裡面的相關樣態跟委員報告，在102人中，失聯的有12位；遭留置盤查的有13位；遭陸方關押的有70位。目前是這些，那我們……"],["李委員坤城：關押的有70位？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["李委員坤城：他們的理由是什麼？"],["邱主任委員垂正：有各種理由，比如詐騙案件、刑事案件、國安案件，包括參加宗教活動，也有人因涉及法令被關押，這些案件加起來有70人。剛剛也提到黑數更多，沒有跟我們報案的更多，所以我們……"],["李委員坤城：這部分該怎麼去處理？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們很重視國人赴陸的人身安全，這是最重要的。因為中國大陸一直吸納我們民眾赴陸，不論是招待或各種統戰活動，但安全是需要關注的。特別在懲獨22條之後，國人赴陸的安全風險明顯升高。連我們一貫道的道親去交流，到現在還沒回來。所以我們呼籲國人赴陸一定要有安全思考，要審慎評估，做好安全準備。如果你還是要去，一定要上陸委會的「赴陸港澳登錄系統」登錄資訊，多一份登錄就多一份安全，萬一有什麼事情，我們可以找到聯繫方式，提供即時援助。"],["李委員坤城：失聯就找不到了，那被關押的70位，有想辦法讓他們回來嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們還是會透過管道，過去兩岸有共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助的機制，雖然陸方往往用政治理由，讓這個機制無法產生作用，但我們還是透過各種可能的管道，去關切他們是不是被關在那邊，也希望陸方要重視這些人的司法人權，也要跟他在臺的家屬聯繫。我們陸委會及海基會都有一個專案，針對每個家庭進行各種的訪問，提供必要的協助。"],["李委員坤城：今天先問到這邊，謝謝主席、謝謝主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：相關資料請於會後詳細提供，謝謝。","下一位請林俊憲委員、林俊憲委員、林俊憲委員不在。","鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","下一位請邱志偉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-20","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","王美惠","李柏毅","張宏陸","黃捷","麥玉珍","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","李坤城","邱志偉","陳雪生","高金素梅","丁學忠"],"page_start":191,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145101_00006"}}}