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00:01:29,177\n第二個時間點你們也可以提出解凍行政院就我了解行政院不讓你們來解凍所以各部會說很多錢不夠用了像交通部很多什麼大樓用電只能用到五點半幾點我跟你講你們活該我跟你講你們不提出來你不能去怪這個反對黨對不對但也不見得反對黨\n\n4\n00:01:30,954 --> 00:01:58,131\n執政黨也有提這個凍結案那凍結案這個東西行之有年嘛對不對這不是我們國民黨發明的或是民眾黨發明的民進黨也是一樣啊這凍結案一定有嘛所以我跟三位部長你們了解一下你們有兩個很好的時間點所以你們不能怪我們你也不能在電視上說去怪說很像藍白很像在凍結你們預算\n\n5\n00:02:00,326 --> 00:02:25,616\n當然今天的預算案、解凍案我大概都跟他們協調好了應該放你們過關問題是你們去講話的時候小心一點好不好我們沒有去阻攔你,這個是程序嘛行政程序是這樣走的嘛,是不是黃部長跟主委請回好不好,謝謝\n\n6\n00:02:30,976 --> 00:02:49,645\n剛才那個財化法,那個會計處長張處長提到,因為財化法讓你們很多的錢都經費來源短促不能用,處長行政院主席處也在這裡,跟這什麼關係?\n\n7\n00:02:54,322 --> 00:03:13,627\n稅入稅出中央政府稅入稅出總預算一定是在稅入既有的基礎來編列稅出的預算嘛是不是這樣你當會計當那麼久了嘛那財化法是稅源多出來的是不是超真的嘛\n\n8\n00:03:14,636 --> 00:03:31,422\n但是多出來的錢啊跟你稅入稅出什麼關係你說因為財化法所以造成你錢不夠用你解釋給我聽這會影響的是未來怎麼影響因為當前因為事實上所謂的超收他其實還要還債\n\n9\n00:03:34,655 --> 00:03:54,270\n跟這個沒有關係嘛還債關你什麼事啊是國家的事你不要把你交通部看得那麼大你懂了沒有你還管到全國的財政啊全國財政是行政院主技術管的不關你的事你是就你既有的行政院主技術給你的額度裡面\n\n10\n00:03:55,168 --> 00:04:21,683\n你去編列預算嘛是不是這樣是是沒錯我跟你講的話就不對啦沒有啊問題是當整個行政院錢沒有的時候他會對我們交通部的所有的相關的支出一定也會緊縮那自然我們因為要滿足各地方的需要那如果稅源沒有投收的話怎麼辦蛤你用電也省了嗎是我們他的問題是在桶山嘛問題出在桶山嘛是不是這樣\n\n11\n00:04:23,022 --> 00:04:41,169\n統三你講統三嘛,跟財化法什麼關係啊?沒有,因為那個是委員提案要我們對財化法對我們講做解釋你講話已經超過你的職權了,你瞭解沒有?那是行政院主計處財政部可以講這個話,你怎麼可以講這個話勒?你是交通部的會計處處長\n\n12\n00:04:43,581 --> 00:05:11,792\n你這個講話已經,你是行政院主席長嗎?你不是嘛?是,不代表,可是委員要求我們要回答才有辦法對我們的影響沒有影響啦,稅入一定有多少錢在那裡嘛,你才能編稅出的錢嘛那你超出多少,你用猜的喔?你又不是玄天上帝,也不是技工火火,你會知道你是上帝啊?你會知道超出多少錢嗎?\n\n13\n00:05:13,792 --> 00:05:41,085\n再給你三兆你也不夠啦是不是好處長你請回啦早上那個王美月委員這兩天出了重大車禍部長你這個東西應該就制度上面去檢討嘛你不要一個人75歲的一個老人出了車禍你要把他改到什麼考照改到70歲\n\n14\n00:05:44,079 --> 00:05:59,486\n我也是受害者,那我75歲,那我今天要去考試?沒有道理啊換照機制一直都在好沒關係,如果60歲有一個人發生了重大車禍撞死了十幾個,那你要降低到60歲嗎?\n\n15\n00:06:03,042 --> 00:06:22,796\n我們不是針對單一個案來做決定的你就是為了這個事情啊你去年有提出來嗎前年有提出來嗎我們其實這已經研議一段時間了沒有道理了啦所以我們會先提出來的原因是因為現在社會大家很關注我們就把我們目前研議的結論先跟社會來做報告跟你講啦你在應付社會啦我沒有意見啦\n\n16\n00:06:23,977 --> 00:06:38,074\n問題是你不能把制度這樣朝夕另改你要朝著制度面去走我們過去這個制度已經做十年了這個人神經有沒有問題體力有沒有問題是不是,四肢有沒有問題你就考慮這個嘛\n\n17\n00:06:39,395 --> 00:07:06,234\n你把他趕到75歲我們現在都有納入了那我也是受害者你知道嗎我不是受害者嗎我不會讓您受害我們這個方案你不讓我受害是要協助年長者你以為那個S型可以隨便進去可以隨便出來的有那麼厲害喔那個不容易我們沒有說要考S型沒有考S型那考什麼考長方形還是正方形三個月之後會提出整體的方案再跟委員報告\n\n18\n00:07:08,598 --> 00:07:27,687\n你可以比試,出車禍的原因很多,喝酒精神不濟我們不是為了擔任個案,我們是整體的駕照管理是包含新考照的,包含已經在路上開,但是有一些違規的樣態要回訊的機制也都有然後換照是另外一個,我們總共有三個方向\n\n19\n00:07:29,088 --> 00:07:51,542\n早上在講,剛才在講,我坐在台上,我是受害者我跟你講,一定有很多鄉親出來講話委員如果已經75歲,本來就是到了現行機制該換照的年齡了不是換人喔換駕駛喔你是叫我不要開車那個意思嗎不會,現在很多人換照都很順利\n\n20\n00:07:53,030 --> 00:08:21,889\n我現在八十幾歲啊,人家生性善良啊你要做壞事要去撞人,那沒辦法,那神經有問題你不能把神經病精神病人也統統把他算在裡面啦,是不是這沒有道理嘛我真的不是看個案不過你修這個法,你們稍微小心一點好不好你不要今天出了車禍,明天出了什麼風災什麼人禍就來啦,叫他修叫他修包委員這不是急救張的啦,我們不會做急救張的事情這是制度的整體的改善這次到馬祖去考察\n\n21\n00:08:23,428 --> 00:08:37,120\n這個大家非常辛苦啦,速發部也去了,部長也去了我也感受到你們的誠意好不好我希望大家同心協力因為馬祖是個藍白合作的地方我剛才到內政委會質詢海基會\n\n22\n00:08:43,459 --> 00:09:11,102\n他幾年專門委員每天在罵連江縣政府罵陳雪生委員你們把北竿機場的配套你給我拿出來怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣一直罵我們現在執政的是民進黨執政耶交通部你是執政黨的他應該去喊什麼連江縣地方黨部也好海基會的人怎麼可以去搞這個事吃飽飯閒著沒事做我才問他他吃什麼飯做什麼事連江縣黨部也在罵我們地方黨部\n\n23\n00:09:12,611 --> 00:09:40,342\n你應該叫交通部陳部長下台啊對不對你要找那個何局長下台啊罵我幹什麼很奇怪你覺得我是不是勇往被罵了部長你回答我問題我不曉得他罵什麼沒辦法評論因為我不曉得他罵什麼他罵我鬼混啦說那個什麼黑箱作業幹什麼的是啊你是沒看到啦你的幕僚跟他們講到馬志旺去找出來看看好不好\n\n24\n00:09:41,446 --> 00:09:53,856\n我再去了解一下執政黨的黨員也有執政黨,國有國法,家有家規嘛,有點規矩嘛好不好,我們共同譴責,好不好謝謝你的協助,好不好好,謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2545\t26980\t謝謝主席是不是請交通部長請陳部長蘇發部長、工程會主委黃部長、陳主委我們三位部長早沒關係站在一起嘛預算解凍案其實有兩個很重要的時間點一個是黨團協商\n31343\t59301\t很可惜黨人協商的時候我們柯總召跟副總召在吵架那很多的不揮的幕僚在後面可以談啊你們有什麼困難有什麼需求可以提出來嘛提出來我們來就可以處理就解凍嘛後來吵架的最後無疾而終送院會去原來是在搞大罷免原來是搞大罷免\n60766\t89177\t第二個時間點你們也可以提出解凍行政院就我了解行政院不讓你們來解凍所以各部會說很多錢不夠用了像交通部很多什麼大樓用電只能用到五點半幾點我跟你講你們活該我跟你講你們不提出來你不能去怪這個反對黨對不對但也不見得反對黨\n90954\t118131\t執政黨也有提這個凍結案那凍結案這個東西行之有年嘛對不對這不是我們國民黨發明的或是民眾黨發明的民進黨也是一樣啊這凍結案一定有嘛所以我跟三位部長你們了解一下你們有兩個很好的時間點所以你們不能怪我們你也不能在電視上說去怪說很像藍白很像在凍結你們預算\n120326\t145616\t當然今天的預算案、解凍案我大概都跟他們協調好了應該放你們過關問題是你們去講話的時候小心一點好不好我們沒有去阻攔你,這個是程序嘛行政程序是這樣走的嘛,是不是黃部長跟主委請回好不好,謝謝\n150976\t169645\t剛才那個財化法,那個會計處長張處長提到,因為財化法讓你們很多的錢都經費來源短促不能用,處長行政院主席處也在這裡,跟這什麼關係?\n174322\t193627\t稅入稅出中央政府稅入稅出總預算一定是在稅入既有的基礎來編列稅出的預算嘛是不是這樣你當會計當那麼久了嘛那財化法是稅源多出來的是不是超真的嘛\n194636\t211422\t但是多出來的錢啊跟你稅入稅出什麼關係你說因為財化法所以造成你錢不夠用你解釋給我聽這會影響的是未來怎麼影響因為當前因為事實上所謂的超收他其實還要還債\n214655\t234270\t跟這個沒有關係嘛 還債關你什麼事啊是國家的事 你不要把你交通部看得那麼大 你懂了沒有你還管到全國的財政啊 全國財政是行政院主技術管的 不關你的事你是就你既有的行政院主技術給你的額度裡面\n235168\t261683\t你去編列預算嘛 是不是這樣是 是 沒錯我跟你講的話就不對啦沒有啊 問題是當整個行政院錢沒有的時候他會對我們交通部的所有的相關的支出一定也會緊縮那自然我們因為要滿足各地方的需要那如果稅源沒有投收的話怎麼辦蛤 你用電也省了嗎是 我們他的問題是在桶山嘛問題出在桶山嘛 是不是這樣\n263022\t281169\t統三你講統三嘛,跟財化法什麼關係啊?沒有,因為那個是委員提案要我們對財化法對我們講做解釋你講話已經超過你的職權了,你瞭解沒有?那是行政院主計處財政部可以講這個話,你怎麼可以講這個話勒?你是交通部的會計處處長\n283581\t311792\t你這個講話已經,你是行政院主席長嗎?你不是嘛?是,不代表,可是委員要求我們要回答才有辦法對我們的影響沒有影響啦,稅入一定有多少錢在那裡嘛,你才能編稅出的錢嘛那你超出多少,你用猜的喔?你又不是玄天上帝,也不是技工火火,你會知道你是上帝啊?你會知道超出多少錢嗎?\n313792\t341085\t再給你三兆你也不夠啦是不是好處長你請回啦早上那個王美月委員這兩天出了重大車禍部長你這個東西應該就制度上面去檢討嘛你不要一個人75歲的一個老人出了車禍你要把他改到什麼考照改到70歲\n344079\t359486\t我也是受害者,那我75歲,那我今天要去考試?沒有道理啊換照機制一直都在好沒關係,如果60歲有一個人發生了重大車禍撞死了十幾個,那你要降低到60歲嗎?\n363042\t382796\t我們不是針對單一個案來做決定的你就是為了這個事情啊你去年有提出來嗎 前年有提出來嗎我們其實這已經研議一段時間了沒有道理了啦所以我們會先提出來的原因是因為現在社會大家很關注我們就把我們目前研議的結論先跟社會來做報告跟你講啦 你在應付社會啦 我沒有意見啦\n383977\t398074\t問題是你不能把制度這樣朝夕另改你要朝著制度面去走我們過去這個制度已經做十年了這個人神經有沒有問題體力有沒有問題是不是,四肢有沒有問題你就考慮這個嘛\n399395\t426234\t你把他趕到75歲我們現在都有納入了那我也是受害者你知道嗎我不是受害者嗎我不會讓您受害我們這個方案你不讓我受害是要協助年長者你以為那個S型可以隨便進去可以隨便出來的有那麼厲害喔那個不容易我們沒有說要考S型沒有考S型那考什麼考長方形還是正方形三個月之後會提出整體的方案再跟委員報告\n428598\t447687\t你可以比試,出車禍的原因很多,喝酒精神不濟我們不是為了擔任個案,我們是整體的駕照管理是包含新考照的,包含已經在路上開,但是有一些違規的樣態要回訊的機制也都有然後換照是另外一個,我們總共有三個方向\n449088\t471542\t早上在講,剛才在講,我坐在台上,我是受害者我跟你講,一定有很多鄉親出來講話委員如果已經75歲,本來就是到了現行機制該換照的年齡了不是換人喔換駕駛喔你是叫我不要開車那個意思嗎不會,現在很多人換照都很順利\n473030\t501889\t我現在八十幾歲啊,人家生性善良啊你要做壞事要去撞人,那沒辦法,那神經有問題你不能把神經病精神病人也統統把他算在裡面啦,是不是這沒有道理嘛我真的不是看個案不過你修這個法,你們稍微小心一點好不好你不要今天出了車禍,明天出了什麼風災什麼人禍就來啦,叫他修叫他修包委員這不是急救張的啦,我們不會做急救張的事情這是制度的整體的改善這次到馬祖去考察\n503428\t517120\t這個大家非常辛苦啦,速發部也去了,部長也去了我也感受到你們的誠意好不好我希望大家同心協力因為馬祖是個藍白合作的地方我剛才到內政委會質詢海基會\n523459\t551102\t他幾年專門委員每天在罵連江縣政府罵陳雪生委員你們把北竿機場的配套你給我拿出來怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣一直罵我們現在執政的是民進黨執政耶交通部你是執政黨的他應該去喊什麼連江縣地方黨部也好海基會的人怎麼可以去搞這個事吃飽飯閒著沒事做我才問他他吃什麼飯做什麼事連江縣黨部也在罵我們地方黨部\n552611\t580342\t你應該叫交通部陳部長下台啊對不對你要找那個何局長下台啊罵我幹什麼很奇怪你覺得我是不是勇往被罵了部長你回答我問題我不曉得他罵什麼沒辦法評論因為我不曉得他罵什麼他罵我鬼混啦說那個什麼黑箱作業幹什麼的是啊你是沒看到啦你的幕僚跟他們講到馬志旺去找出來看看好不好\n581446\t593856\t我再去了解一下執政黨的黨員也有執政黨,國有國法,家有家規嘛,有點規矩嘛好不好,我們共同譴責,好不好謝謝你的協助,好不好好,謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席是不是請交通部長請陳部長蘇發部長、工程會主委黃部長、陳主委我們三位部長早沒關係站在一起嘛預算解凍案其實有兩個很重要的時間點一個是黨團協商\n很可惜黨人協商的時候我們柯總召跟副總召在吵架那很多的不揮的幕僚在後面可以談啊你們有什麼困難有什麼需求可以提出來嘛提出來我們來就可以處理就解凍嘛後來吵架的最後無疾而終送院會去原來是在搞大罷免原來是搞大罷免\n第二個時間點你們也可以提出解凍行政院就我了解行政院不讓你們來解凍所以各部會說很多錢不夠用了像交通部很多什麼大樓用電只能用到五點半幾點我跟你講你們活該我跟你講你們不提出來你不能去怪這個反對黨對不對但也不見得反對黨\n執政黨也有提這個凍結案那凍結案這個東西行之有年嘛對不對這不是我們國民黨發明的或是民眾黨發明的民進黨也是一樣啊這凍結案一定有嘛所以我跟三位部長你們了解一下你們有兩個很好的時間點所以你們不能怪我們你也不能在電視上說去怪說很像藍白很像在凍結你們預算\n當然今天的預算案、解凍案我大概都跟他們協調好了應該放你們過關問題是你們去講話的時候小心一點好不好我們沒有去阻攔你,這個是程序嘛行政程序是這樣走的嘛,是不是黃部長跟主委請回好不好,謝謝\n剛才那個財化法,那個會計處長張處長提到,因為財化法讓你們很多的錢都經費來源短促不能用,處長行政院主席處也在這裡,跟這什麼關係?\n稅入稅出中央政府稅入稅出總預算一定是在稅入既有的基礎來編列稅出的預算嘛是不是這樣你當會計當那麼久了嘛那財化法是稅源多出來的是不是超真的嘛\n但是多出來的錢啊跟你稅入稅出什麼關係你說因為財化法所以造成你錢不夠用你解釋給我聽這會影響的是未來怎麼影響因為當前因為事實上所謂的超收他其實還要還債\n跟這個沒有關係嘛 還債關你什麼事啊是國家的事 你不要把你交通部看得那麼大 你懂了沒有你還管到全國的財政啊 全國財政是行政院主技術管的 不關你的事你是就你既有的行政院主技術給你的額度裡面\n你去編列預算嘛 是不是這樣是 是 沒錯我跟你講的話就不對啦沒有啊 問題是當整個行政院錢沒有的時候他會對我們交通部的所有的相關的支出一定也會緊縮那自然我們因為要滿足各地方的需要那如果稅源沒有投收的話怎麼辦蛤 你用電也省了嗎是 我們他的問題是在桶山嘛問題出在桶山嘛 是不是這樣\n統三你講統三嘛,跟財化法什麼關係啊?沒有,因為那個是委員提案要我們對財化法對我們講做解釋你講話已經超過你的職權了,你瞭解沒有?那是行政院主計處財政部可以講這個話,你怎麼可以講這個話勒?你是交通部的會計處處長\n你這個講話已經,你是行政院主席長嗎?你不是嘛?是,不代表,可是委員要求我們要回答才有辦法對我們的影響沒有影響啦,稅入一定有多少錢在那裡嘛,你才能編稅出的錢嘛那你超出多少,你用猜的喔?你又不是玄天上帝,也不是技工火火,你會知道你是上帝啊?你會知道超出多少錢嗎?\n再給你三兆你也不夠啦是不是好處長你請回啦早上那個王美月委員這兩天出了重大車禍部長你這個東西應該就制度上面去檢討嘛你不要一個人75歲的一個老人出了車禍你要把他改到什麼考照改到70歲\n我也是受害者,那我75歲,那我今天要去考試?沒有道理啊換照機制一直都在好沒關係,如果60歲有一個人發生了重大車禍撞死了十幾個,那你要降低到60歲嗎?\n我們不是針對單一個案來做決定的你就是為了這個事情啊你去年有提出來嗎 前年有提出來嗎我們其實這已經研議一段時間了沒有道理了啦所以我們會先提出來的原因是因為現在社會大家很關注我們就把我們目前研議的結論先跟社會來做報告跟你講啦 你在應付社會啦 我沒有意見啦\n問題是你不能把制度這樣朝夕另改你要朝著制度面去走我們過去這個制度已經做十年了這個人神經有沒有問題體力有沒有問題是不是,四肢有沒有問題你就考慮這個嘛\n你把他趕到75歲我們現在都有納入了那我也是受害者你知道嗎我不是受害者嗎我不會讓您受害我們這個方案你不讓我受害是要協助年長者你以為那個S型可以隨便進去可以隨便出來的有那麼厲害喔那個不容易我們沒有說要考S型沒有考S型那考什麼考長方形還是正方形三個月之後會提出整體的方案再跟委員報告\n你可以比試,出車禍的原因很多,喝酒精神不濟我們不是為了擔任個案,我們是整體的駕照管理是包含新考照的,包含已經在路上開,但是有一些違規的樣態要回訊的機制也都有然後換照是另外一個,我們總共有三個方向\n早上在講,剛才在講,我坐在台上,我是受害者我跟你講,一定有很多鄉親出來講話委員如果已經75歲,本來就是到了現行機制該換照的年齡了不是換人喔換駕駛喔你是叫我不要開車那個意思嗎不會,現在很多人換照都很順利\n我現在八十幾歲啊,人家生性善良啊你要做壞事要去撞人,那沒辦法,那神經有問題你不能把神經病精神病人也統統把他算在裡面啦,是不是這沒有道理嘛我真的不是看個案不過你修這個法,你們稍微小心一點好不好你不要今天出了車禍,明天出了什麼風災什麼人禍就來啦,叫他修叫他修包委員這不是急救張的啦,我們不會做急救張的事情這是制度的整體的改善這次到馬祖去考察\n這個大家非常辛苦啦,速發部也去了,部長也去了我也感受到你們的誠意好不好我希望大家同心協力因為馬祖是個藍白合作的地方我剛才到內政委會質詢海基會\n他幾年專門委員每天在罵連江縣政府罵陳雪生委員你們把北竿機場的配套你給我拿出來怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣一直罵我們現在執政的是民進黨執政耶交通部你是執政黨的他應該去喊什麼連江縣地方黨部也好海基會的人怎麼可以去搞這個事吃飽飯閒著沒事做我才問他他吃什麼飯做什麼事連江縣黨部也在罵我們地方黨部\n你應該叫交通部陳部長下台啊對不對你要找那個何局長下台啊罵我幹什麼很奇怪你覺得我是不是勇往被罵了部長你回答我問題我不曉得他罵什麼沒辦法評論因為我不曉得他罵什麼他罵我鬼混啦說那個什麼黑箱作業幹什麼的是啊你是沒看到啦你的幕僚跟他們講到馬志旺去找出來看看好不好\n我再去了解一下執政黨的黨員也有執政黨,國有國法,家有家規嘛,有點規矩嘛好不好,我們共同譴責,好不好謝謝你的協助,好不好好,謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.545 --> 00:26.980\n謝謝主席是不是請交通部長請陳部長蘇發部長、工程會主委黃部長、陳主委我們三位部長早沒關係站在一起嘛預算解凍案其實有兩個很重要的時間點一個是黨團協商\n\n00:31.343 --> 00:59.301\n很可惜黨人協商的時候我們柯總召跟副總召在吵架那很多的不揮的幕僚在後面可以談啊你們有什麼困難有什麼需求可以提出來嘛提出來我們來就可以處理就解凍嘛後來吵架的最後無疾而終送院會去原來是在搞大罷免原來是搞大罷免\n\n01:00.766 --> 01:29.177\n第二個時間點你們也可以提出解凍行政院就我了解行政院不讓你們來解凍所以各部會說很多錢不夠用了像交通部很多什麼大樓用電只能用到五點半幾點我跟你講你們活該我跟你講你們不提出來你不能去怪這個反對黨對不對但也不見得反對黨\n\n01:30.954 --> 01:58.131\n執政黨也有提這個凍結案那凍結案這個東西行之有年嘛對不對這不是我們國民黨發明的或是民眾黨發明的民進黨也是一樣啊這凍結案一定有嘛所以我跟三位部長你們了解一下你們有兩個很好的時間點所以你們不能怪我們你也不能在電視上說去怪說很像藍白很像在凍結你們預算\n\n02:00.326 --> 02:25.616\n當然今天的預算案、解凍案我大概都跟他們協調好了應該放你們過關問題是你們去講話的時候小心一點好不好我們沒有去阻攔你,這個是程序嘛行政程序是這樣走的嘛,是不是黃部長跟主委請回好不好,謝謝\n\n02:30.976 --> 02:49.645\n剛才那個財化法,那個會計處長張處長提到,因為財化法讓你們很多的錢都經費來源短促不能用,處長行政院主席處也在這裡,跟這什麼關係?\n\n02:54.322 --> 03:13.627\n稅入稅出中央政府稅入稅出總預算一定是在稅入既有的基礎來編列稅出的預算嘛是不是這樣你當會計當那麼久了嘛那財化法是稅源多出來的是不是超真的嘛\n\n03:14.636 --> 03:31.422\n但是多出來的錢啊跟你稅入稅出什麼關係你說因為財化法所以造成你錢不夠用你解釋給我聽這會影響的是未來怎麼影響因為當前因為事實上所謂的超收他其實還要還債\n\n03:34.655 --> 03:54.270\n跟這個沒有關係嘛還債關你什麼事啊是國家的事你不要把你交通部看得那麼大你懂了沒有你還管到全國的財政啊全國財政是行政院主技術管的不關你的事你是就你既有的行政院主技術給你的額度裡面\n\n03:55.168 --> 04:21.683\n你去編列預算嘛是不是這樣是是沒錯我跟你講的話就不對啦沒有啊問題是當整個行政院錢沒有的時候他會對我們交通部的所有的相關的支出一定也會緊縮那自然我們因為要滿足各地方的需要那如果稅源沒有投收的話怎麼辦蛤你用電也省了嗎是我們他的問題是在桶山嘛問題出在桶山嘛是不是這樣\n\n04:23.022 --> 04:41.169\n統三你講統三嘛,跟財化法什麼關係啊?沒有,因為那個是委員提案要我們對財化法對我們講做解釋你講話已經超過你的職權了,你瞭解沒有?那是行政院主計處財政部可以講這個話,你怎麼可以講這個話勒?你是交通部的會計處處長\n\n04:43.581 --> 05:11.792\n你這個講話已經,你是行政院主席長嗎?你不是嘛?是,不代表,可是委員要求我們要回答才有辦法對我們的影響沒有影響啦,稅入一定有多少錢在那裡嘛,你才能編稅出的錢嘛那你超出多少,你用猜的喔?你又不是玄天上帝,也不是技工火火,你會知道你是上帝啊?你會知道超出多少錢嗎?\n\n05:13.792 --> 05:41.085\n再給你三兆你也不夠啦是不是好處長你請回啦早上那個王美月委員這兩天出了重大車禍部長你這個東西應該就制度上面去檢討嘛你不要一個人75歲的一個老人出了車禍你要把他改到什麼考照改到70歲\n\n05:44.079 --> 05:59.486\n我也是受害者,那我75歲,那我今天要去考試?沒有道理啊換照機制一直都在好沒關係,如果60歲有一個人發生了重大車禍撞死了十幾個,那你要降低到60歲嗎?\n\n06:03.042 --> 06:22.796\n我們不是針對單一個案來做決定的你就是為了這個事情啊你去年有提出來嗎前年有提出來嗎我們其實這已經研議一段時間了沒有道理了啦所以我們會先提出來的原因是因為現在社會大家很關注我們就把我們目前研議的結論先跟社會來做報告跟你講啦你在應付社會啦我沒有意見啦\n\n06:23.977 --> 06:38.074\n問題是你不能把制度這樣朝夕另改你要朝著制度面去走我們過去這個制度已經做十年了這個人神經有沒有問題體力有沒有問題是不是,四肢有沒有問題你就考慮這個嘛\n\n06:39.395 --> 07:06.234\n你把他趕到75歲我們現在都有納入了那我也是受害者你知道嗎我不是受害者嗎我不會讓您受害我們這個方案你不讓我受害是要協助年長者你以為那個S型可以隨便進去可以隨便出來的有那麼厲害喔那個不容易我們沒有說要考S型沒有考S型那考什麼考長方形還是正方形三個月之後會提出整體的方案再跟委員報告\n\n07:08.598 --> 07:27.687\n你可以比試,出車禍的原因很多,喝酒精神不濟我們不是為了擔任個案,我們是整體的駕照管理是包含新考照的,包含已經在路上開,但是有一些違規的樣態要回訊的機制也都有然後換照是另外一個,我們總共有三個方向\n\n07:29.088 --> 07:51.542\n早上在講,剛才在講,我坐在台上,我是受害者我跟你講,一定有很多鄉親出來講話委員如果已經75歲,本來就是到了現行機制該換照的年齡了不是換人喔換駕駛喔你是叫我不要開車那個意思嗎不會,現在很多人換照都很順利\n\n07:53.030 --> 08:21.889\n我現在八十幾歲啊,人家生性善良啊你要做壞事要去撞人,那沒辦法,那神經有問題你不能把神經病精神病人也統統把他算在裡面啦,是不是這沒有道理嘛我真的不是看個案不過你修這個法,你們稍微小心一點好不好你不要今天出了車禍,明天出了什麼風災什麼人禍就來啦,叫他修叫他修包委員這不是急救張的啦,我們不會做急救張的事情這是制度的整體的改善這次到馬祖去考察\n\n08:23.428 --> 08:37.120\n這個大家非常辛苦啦,速發部也去了,部長也去了我也感受到你們的誠意好不好我希望大家同心協力因為馬祖是個藍白合作的地方我剛才到內政委會質詢海基會\n\n08:43.459 --> 09:11.102\n他幾年專門委員每天在罵連江縣政府罵陳雪生委員你們把北竿機場的配套你給我拿出來怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣一直罵我們現在執政的是民進黨執政耶交通部你是執政黨的他應該去喊什麼連江縣地方黨部也好海基會的人怎麼可以去搞這個事吃飽飯閒著沒事做我才問他他吃什麼飯做什麼事連江縣黨部也在罵我們地方黨部\n\n09:12.611 --> 09:40.342\n你應該叫交通部陳部長下台啊對不對你要找那個何局長下台啊罵我幹什麼很奇怪你覺得我是不是勇往被罵了部長你回答我問題我不曉得他罵什麼沒辦法評論因為我不曉得他罵什麼他罵我鬼混啦說那個什麼黑箱作業幹什麼的是啊你是沒看到啦你的幕僚跟他們講到馬志旺去找出來看看好不好\n\n09:41.446 --> 09:53.856\n我再去了解一下執政黨的黨員也有執政黨,國有國法,家有家規嘛,有點規矩嘛好不好,我們共同譴責,好不好謝謝你的協助,好不好好,謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.545,"end":26.98,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請交通部長請陳部長蘇發部長、工程會主委黃部長、陳主委我們三位部長早沒關係站在一起嘛預算解凍案其實有兩個很重要的時間點一個是黨團協商"},{"start":31.343,"end":59.301,"text":"很可惜黨人協商的時候我們柯總召跟副總召在吵架那很多的不揮的幕僚在後面可以談啊你們有什麼困難有什麼需求可以提出來嘛提出來我們來就可以處理就解凍嘛後來吵架的最後無疾而終送院會去原來是在搞大罷免原來是搞大罷免"},{"start":60.766,"end":89.177,"text":"第二個時間點你們也可以提出解凍行政院就我了解行政院不讓你們來解凍所以各部會說很多錢不夠用了像交通部很多什麼大樓用電只能用到五點半幾點我跟你講你們活該我跟你講你們不提出來你不能去怪這個反對黨對不對但也不見得反對黨"},{"start":90.954,"end":118.131,"text":"執政黨也有提這個凍結案那凍結案這個東西行之有年嘛對不對這不是我們國民黨發明的或是民眾黨發明的民進黨也是一樣啊這凍結案一定有嘛所以我跟三位部長你們了解一下你們有兩個很好的時間點所以你們不能怪我們你也不能在電視上說去怪說很像藍白很像在凍結你們預算"},{"start":120.326,"end":145.616,"text":"當然今天的預算案、解凍案我大概都跟他們協調好了應該放你們過關問題是你們去講話的時候小心一點好不好我們沒有去阻攔你,這個是程序嘛行政程序是這樣走的嘛,是不是黃部長跟主委請回好不好,謝謝"},{"start":150.976,"end":169.645,"text":"剛才那個財化法,那個會計處長張處長提到,因為財化法讓你們很多的錢都經費來源短促不能用,處長行政院主席處也在這裡,跟這什麼關係?"},{"start":174.322,"end":193.627,"text":"稅入稅出中央政府稅入稅出總預算一定是在稅入既有的基礎來編列稅出的預算嘛是不是這樣你當會計當那麼久了嘛那財化法是稅源多出來的是不是超真的嘛"},{"start":194.636,"end":211.422,"text":"但是多出來的錢啊跟你稅入稅出什麼關係你說因為財化法所以造成你錢不夠用你解釋給我聽這會影響的是未來怎麼影響因為當前因為事實上所謂的超收他其實還要還債"},{"start":214.655,"end":234.27,"text":"跟這個沒有關係嘛 還債關你什麼事啊是國家的事 你不要把你交通部看得那麼大 你懂了沒有你還管到全國的財政啊 全國財政是行政院主技術管的 不關你的事你是就你既有的行政院主技術給你的額度裡面"},{"start":235.168,"end":261.683,"text":"你去編列預算嘛 是不是這樣是 是 沒錯我跟你講的話就不對啦沒有啊 問題是當整個行政院錢沒有的時候他會對我們交通部的所有的相關的支出一定也會緊縮那自然我們因為要滿足各地方的需要那如果稅源沒有投收的話怎麼辦蛤 你用電也省了嗎是 我們他的問題是在桶山嘛問題出在桶山嘛 是不是這樣"},{"start":263.022,"end":281.169,"text":"統三你講統三嘛,跟財化法什麼關係啊?沒有,因為那個是委員提案要我們對財化法對我們講做解釋你講話已經超過你的職權了,你瞭解沒有?那是行政院主計處財政部可以講這個話,你怎麼可以講這個話勒?你是交通部的會計處處長"},{"start":283.581,"end":311.792,"text":"你這個講話已經,你是行政院主席長嗎?你不是嘛?是,不代表,可是委員要求我們要回答才有辦法對我們的影響沒有影響啦,稅入一定有多少錢在那裡嘛,你才能編稅出的錢嘛那你超出多少,你用猜的喔?你又不是玄天上帝,也不是技工火火,你會知道你是上帝啊?你會知道超出多少錢嗎?"},{"start":313.792,"end":341.085,"text":"再給你三兆你也不夠啦是不是好處長你請回啦早上那個王美月委員這兩天出了重大車禍部長你這個東西應該就制度上面去檢討嘛你不要一個人75歲的一個老人出了車禍你要把他改到什麼考照改到70歲"},{"start":344.079,"end":359.486,"text":"我也是受害者,那我75歲,那我今天要去考試?沒有道理啊換照機制一直都在好沒關係,如果60歲有一個人發生了重大車禍撞死了十幾個,那你要降低到60歲嗎?"},{"start":363.042,"end":382.796,"text":"我們不是針對單一個案來做決定的你就是為了這個事情啊你去年有提出來嗎 前年有提出來嗎我們其實這已經研議一段時間了沒有道理了啦所以我們會先提出來的原因是因為現在社會大家很關注我們就把我們目前研議的結論先跟社會來做報告跟你講啦 你在應付社會啦 我沒有意見啦"},{"start":383.977,"end":398.074,"text":"問題是你不能把制度這樣朝夕另改你要朝著制度面去走我們過去這個制度已經做十年了這個人神經有沒有問題體力有沒有問題是不是,四肢有沒有問題你就考慮這個嘛"},{"start":399.395,"end":426.234,"text":"你把他趕到75歲我們現在都有納入了那我也是受害者你知道嗎我不是受害者嗎我不會讓您受害我們這個方案你不讓我受害是要協助年長者你以為那個S型可以隨便進去可以隨便出來的有那麼厲害喔那個不容易我們沒有說要考S型沒有考S型那考什麼考長方形還是正方形三個月之後會提出整體的方案再跟委員報告"},{"start":428.598,"end":447.687,"text":"你可以比試,出車禍的原因很多,喝酒精神不濟我們不是為了擔任個案,我們是整體的駕照管理是包含新考照的,包含已經在路上開,但是有一些違規的樣態要回訊的機制也都有然後換照是另外一個,我們總共有三個方向"},{"start":449.088,"end":471.542,"text":"早上在講,剛才在講,我坐在台上,我是受害者我跟你講,一定有很多鄉親出來講話委員如果已經75歲,本來就是到了現行機制該換照的年齡了不是換人喔換駕駛喔你是叫我不要開車那個意思嗎不會,現在很多人換照都很順利"},{"start":473.03,"end":501.889,"text":"我現在八十幾歲啊,人家生性善良啊你要做壞事要去撞人,那沒辦法,那神經有問題你不能把神經病精神病人也統統把他算在裡面啦,是不是這沒有道理嘛我真的不是看個案不過你修這個法,你們稍微小心一點好不好你不要今天出了車禍,明天出了什麼風災什麼人禍就來啦,叫他修叫他修包委員這不是急救張的啦,我們不會做急救張的事情這是制度的整體的改善這次到馬祖去考察"},{"start":503.428,"end":517.12,"text":"這個大家非常辛苦啦,速發部也去了,部長也去了我也感受到你們的誠意好不好我希望大家同心協力因為馬祖是個藍白合作的地方我剛才到內政委會質詢海基會"},{"start":523.459,"end":551.102,"text":"他幾年專門委員每天在罵連江縣政府罵陳雪生委員你們把北竿機場的配套你給我拿出來怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣一直罵我們現在執政的是民進黨執政耶交通部你是執政黨的他應該去喊什麼連江縣地方黨部也好海基會的人怎麼可以去搞這個事吃飽飯閒著沒事做我才問他他吃什麼飯做什麼事連江縣黨部也在罵我們地方黨部"},{"start":552.611,"end":580.342,"text":"你應該叫交通部陳部長下台啊對不對你要找那個何局長下台啊罵我幹什麼很奇怪你覺得我是不是勇往被罵了部長你回答我問題我不曉得他罵什麼沒辦法評論因為我不曉得他罵什麼他罵我鬼混啦說那個什麼黑箱作業幹什麼的是啊你是沒看到啦你的幕僚跟他們講到馬志旺去找出來看看好不好"},{"start":581.446,"end":593.856,"text":"我再去了解一下執政黨的黨員也有執政黨,國有國法,家有家規嘛,有點規矩嘛好不好,我們共同譴責,好不好謝謝你的協助,好不好好,謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1924,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（12時54分）謝謝主席！是不是請交通部長？"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳委員雪生：還有數發部部長和工程會主委。"],["主席：黃部長、陳主委。"],["陳委員雪生：三位部長早。預算解凍案其實有兩個很重要的時間點，一個是黨團協商，很可惜黨團協商時柯總召跟傅總召在吵架，當時有很多部會幕僚在後面。其實可以談，你們有什麼困難、有什麼需求可以提出來；提出來我們就可以處理，就可以解凍。但吵架到最後就是無疾而終，送院會處理……原來你們是在搞大罷免。至於第二個時間點，你們也可以提出解凍，但據我了解，行政院不讓你們提報告解凍，所以各部會說很多錢被凍結、不夠用了，像交通部有大樓用電只能到五點半、到幾點。我跟你講，你們活該！是你們不提報告，所以不能怪反對黨，對不對？其實不光反對黨，執政黨也有委員提凍結案，畢竟凍結預算行之有年，對不對？不是國民黨發明的或民眾黨發明的，民進黨也一樣有提，所以一定會有凍結案。","我跟三位部長請教，也了解一下，你們明明有兩個很好的時間點，所以不能怪我們，也不能在電視上怪藍白凍結你們的預算！當然，今天的預算解凍案我跟他們協調好了，應該會放你們過關，問題是你們講話時小心一點，好不好？我們沒有阻攔你們，這是程序，行政程序就是這樣走，是不是？黃部長跟陳主委請回，謝謝。","剛才交通部會計處張處長提到，因為財劃法讓你們有很多經費來源短絀不能用。處長，今天行政院主計總處也在這裡，跟這有什麼關係？"],["張處長信一：因為財劃法……"],["陳委員雪生：中央政府總預算一定是在既有的歲入基礎來編列歲出預算，是不是這樣？"],["張處長信一：是。"],["陳委員雪生：你做會計那麼久了，當知財劃法是分配稅源多出來的，是超徵的、是多出來的錢，跟歲入、歲出什麼關係？你說因為財劃法造成錢不夠用？你解釋給我聽！"],["張處長信一：影響的是未來。"],["陳委員雪生：我剛剛講的話你解釋給我聽。"],["張處長信一：這影響的是未來。"],["陳委員雪生：怎麼影響？"],["張處長信一：所謂的超收其實還是要還債……"],["陳委員雪生：跟這個沒有關係，還債關你什麼事？"],["張處長信一：國家的事。"],["陳委員雪生：國家的事……"],["張處長信一：這是國家的事，我們部裡面對於財劃法的態度是尊重國會……"],["陳委員雪生：你不要把交通部看得那麼大，你懂了沒有？你還管到全國財政？"],["張處長信一：沒有，但我們會受影響……"],["陳委員雪生：全國財政是財政部跟行政院主計總處管的，不關你的事！你是就你既有的，也就是行政院主計總處給你的額度去編列預算，是不是這樣？"],["張處長信一：是，沒錯，委員講的是。"],["陳委員雪生：所以你講的不對！"],["張處長信一：問題是整個行政院沒有錢時，就會緊縮交通部的所有相關支出，而我們因為要滿足各地方的需求，自然就會受到影響……"],["陳委員雪生：如果稅源沒有超收的話怎麼辦？用電也省了嗎？"],["張處長信一：是，我們……"],["陳委員雪生：問題在統刪！問題出在統刪，是不是這樣？所以你就講統刪，跟財劃法什麼關係？"],["張處長信一：那是委員提案，要我們就財劃法對我們的影響做解釋……"],["陳委員雪生：你講話已經超過你的職權了，你了解沒有？行政院主計總處、財政部可以講這個話，你怎麼可以講這個話？你是交通部的會計處處長，你講這個講話已經……你可以代表行政院主計長嗎？你不行啊！"],["張處長信一：是，不代表！但這是委員要求我們回答財劃法對我們的影響，我們只是說……"],["陳委員雪生：沒有影響！一定有多少歲入在那裡，你才能編歲出的錢，是不是？難道超收多少用猜的嗎？你又不是玄天上帝，也不是濟公活佛，你怎麼會知道？你是上帝嗎？你會知道超收多少錢嗎？再給你3兆，也不夠，是不是？好，處長請回。","早上王美惠委員提到這兩天出了重大車禍，部長，這件事應該就制度上面去檢討，不要因為一個75歲的老人出了車禍，就要把換照改到70歲，我也是受害者耶！我75歲了，那我今天要去考試喔？沒有道理啊！"],["陳部長世凱：換照機制一直都在。"],["陳委員雪生：好，沒關係。如果有一個60歲的人發生重大車禍，撞死了十幾個，那你要降低到60歲嗎？我不曉得你們是誰……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們不是針對單一個案做決定的。"],["陳委員雪生：你就是為了這件事情啊！"],["陳部長世凱：不是。"],["陳委員雪生：去年你有提出來嗎？前年有提出來嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：其實這已經研議一段時間了。"],["陳委員雪生：沒有道理啦！"],["陳部長世凱：之所以會先提出來的原因，是因為現在社會大家很關注，我們就把我們目前研議的結論先跟社會報告。"],["陳委員雪生：我跟你講，你在應付社會，我沒有意見，問題是制度不能這樣朝令夕改，你要朝著制度面去走。"],["陳部長世凱：過去這個制度我們已經做10年了，到了該改的……"],["陳委員雪生：這個人精神有沒有問題？體力有沒有問題？四肢有沒有問題？你去考慮這個嘛！你把它改到70歲……"],["陳部長世凱：我們現在都有納入了。"],["陳委員雪生：我也是受害者，你知道嗎？我不是受害者嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我們不會讓您受害，我們這個方案是要協助年長者……"],["陳委員雪生：你不讓我受害？你以為那個S型可以隨便進去、可以隨便出來的喔？有那麼厲害喔？那個不容易的。"],["陳部長世凱：我們沒有說要考S型。"],["陳委員雪生：沒有考S型，那考什麼？考長方形，還是正方形？"],["陳部長世凱：三個月之後會提出整體方案，屆時再跟委員報告。"],["陳委員雪生：可以筆試嘛！是不是？出車禍的原因很多，喝酒、精神不濟，有些……"],["陳部長世凱：我們不是為了單一個案，我們是整體的駕照管理，是包含新考照的、包含已經在路上開，但是有一些違規樣態要回訓的機制也都有，換照是另外一個，我們總共有三個方向。"],["陳委員雪生：所以王美惠委員剛才在講，我坐在臺下，我是受害者，我跟你講，一定會有很多鄉親出來講話。"],["陳部長世凱：委員如果已經75歲，本來就是到了現行機制該換照的年齡了。"],["陳委員雪生：不是換人喔？"],["陳部長世凱：是換照。"],["陳委員雪生：換駕駛喔？"],["陳部長世凱：換照。"],["陳委員雪生：就是叫我不要開車的意思嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：不會，現在很多人換照都很順利。"],["陳委員雪生：現在八十幾歲，生性善良，但要做壞事、要去撞人，那沒辦法，那神經有問題，你不能把精神病的人統統算在裡面啊！是不是？這沒有道理嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們真的不是看個案。"],["陳委員雪生：修這個法，你們稍微小心一點，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["陳委員雪生：不要今天出了車禍，明天出了什麼風災、什麼人禍，又來啦！這要修、那要修。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這不是急就章，我們不會做急就章的事情，這是制度整體的改善。"],["陳委員雪生：這次到馬祖去考察，大家非常辛苦，數發部部長也去了，我也感受到你們的誠意，好不好？我希望大家同心協力，因為馬祖是個藍白合作的地方。我剛才到內政委員會質詢海基會，他的專門委員每天在罵連江縣政府、罵陳雪生委員，要我們把北竿機場的配套拿出來，怎麼樣、怎麼樣、怎麼樣，一直罵我們。現在執政的是民進黨，交通部是執政黨的，他應該去喊什麼？連江縣地方黨部也好，海基會的人怎麼可以去搞這個事？吃飽飯閒著沒事做，我才問他，他吃什麼飯、做什麼事？連江縣黨部也在罵我們，他應該叫交通部陳部長下臺啊！對不對？叫何局長下臺啊！他罵我幹什麼？很奇怪耶！你覺得我是不是冤枉被罵了？部長，你回答我問題。"],["陳部長世凱：我不曉得他罵什麼，沒辦法評論，因為我不曉得他罵什麼。"],["陳委員雪生：他罵我鬼混，說什麼黑箱作業，幹什麼的。部長是沒看到啦，跟你的幕僚講去馬資網找出來看看，好不好？你可以做個參考。"],["陳部長世凱：我再去了解一下。"],["陳委員雪生：執政黨的黨員……國有國法，家有家規嘛！有點規矩嘛！是不是？我們共同譴責，好不好？謝謝你的協助。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳雪生委員。那個譴責你可以個人表態！","請林月琴委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":414,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-12","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","傅崐萁","魯明哲","陳素月","林俊憲","廖先翔","黃健豪","何欣純","蔡其昌","徐富癸","邱若華","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃建賓","張啓楷","王美惠","郭昱晴","牛煦庭","陳雪生","林月琴","邱志偉","游顥","林國成","楊瓊瓔","羅廷瑋","林德福"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145302_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查及處理114年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計48案；二、審查及處理114\n年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計20案；三、處理114年度中央政府總預算\n關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計8案","agenda_id":"1145302_00004"}}}