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\"score\": 0.695}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 715.119, \"end\": 715.139, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 715.139, \"end\": 715.159, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"佩\", \"start\": 715.159, \"end\": 715.319, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"奕\", \"start\": 715.319, \"end\": 715.679, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 715.679, \"end\": 715.699, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,642 --> 00:00:12,303\n謝謝主席我請何安慧好有請何安慧陳主委好主委好因為等會要跟你討論有關於核一核二核三廠我們核廢料處置的問題那因為我今天要問的比較不是大的政策而是細節所以如果有業務相關的同仁要回答就直接來回答就可以了好\n\n2\n00:00:33,228 --> 00:00:39,772\n那其實我要問的問題有很多時間也有限但是因為我剛剛聽到前面葉元之委員的質詢內容我有一些疑問必須要請教剛剛葉元之委員說這個核管法藍白提出來的修法也已經通過了\n\n3\n00:00:48,377 --> 00:01:06,927\n是要讓已經停止運轉的這個核電廠也能夠再次運轉那就包含了核一核二核三但是依原之委員說如果只要台電沒有提出要再運轉的申請那自然就沒有延續或者繼續運轉的問題我現在請問一下有關於核三廠目前台電有沒有向核安會提出要再運轉的申請沒有\n\n4\n00:01:14,651 --> 00:01:23,677\n沒有嘛對但是呢昨天在立法院通過了什麼是由藍白來贊成提出通過就是關於核三廠要繼續運轉的公投案所以呢這個問題我覺得很奇怪確實台電沒有提出申請但是還是立法院的政黨可以的這些立法委員可以來提出公投案那就是國人現在關心的嘛到底核三會不會繼續的運轉\n\n5\n00:01:44,550 --> 00:02:04,624\n這個不僅是關乎於台電有沒有提出申請它事實上是可能成為政黨之間的這個提案然後也會對整體社會造成有可能的影響也就是確實核三長在未來是有可能繼續運轉所以我們要關心的是什麼就是核廢料到底要如何處理\n\n6\n00:02:06,325 --> 00:02:16,514\n這個不是意識形態裡面之爭我們要務實來看待我請教一下現在我們的核一核二核三廠的燃料棒目前是怎麼處置的\n\n7\n00:02:19,384 --> 00:02:45,055\n縣型的情況報告委員目前燃料放就放在水池裡面但是都在放在燃料池內是不是那合一廠的部分因為他的乾除設施已經開始運轉所以已經有陸陸續續會把合一廠的廠內那個燃料池內的用過燃料搬移到乾除所陸續在移動\n\n8\n00:02:46,135 --> 00:03:10,917\n所以呢在沒有乾式儲存草的情況下我們現狀這個使用過燃料棒就必須要放在燃料池內是不是這樣子是好那台灣目前我們在規劃的是室外乾除廠有兩座室內乾除廠有三座是不是是所以合三廠我們有沒有規劃室外乾除廠\n\n9\n00:03:12,295 --> 00:03:29,940\n河山廠有規劃要興建一座室內乾式儲存對河山廠我們規劃是室內乾式儲存室外沒有嗎室外沒有好那現在我們河一河二廠的這個燃料池內的燃料棒這個是不是已經都幾乎要將近滿足了\n\n10\n00:03:32,281 --> 00:03:45,172\n對幾乎要滿儲所以未來我們合一合二廠的室外乾儲廠你會先做好嘛室外對新建完成之後就會把燃料棒從燃料池內移出到乾式儲存廠內是嗎是的好那現在和珊廠的燃料池內儲存的燃料棒的情況如何\n\n11\n00:03:51,758 --> 00:04:10,164\n你們預計因為現在是已經除液已經停止已經停機了所以目前是沒有持續增加燃料棒的問題但是按照你們原先預估的這個時程目前的燃料池它的空間還能夠再儲存使用過燃料棒最多是幾年就如同委員所提供的大概四年多\n\n12\n00:04:15,467 --> 00:04:40,232\n四年多在乾除廠衛星艦完成的情況下河山廠的燃料池裡面燃料棒最多最多就是假設不管你要延續還是要再運轉最多最多就是只有四年份的燃料棒我們的燃料池可以儲存嘛對不對那目前在野黨修過的版本核管法的再運轉最長是可以到幾年\n\n13\n00:04:42,706 --> 00:04:53,335\n最長是20年,按照新的法規在甘氏儲存廠未興建完成的情況下請問我們河山廠的燃料池有辦法來儲存20年的燃料棒嗎?所以沒辦法,所以必須要興建室內的必須要興建,沒有錯我們現在的甘氏儲存廠、河山廠我們預估最快最快什麼時候可以完成\n\n14\n00:05:07,196 --> 00:05:28,146\n跟委員說明台電公司河山廠的室內甘薯計畫在今年的2月他已經辦理採購文件的公開閱覽然後台電公司是希望在今年底能夠決標那預期是在121年6月完工啟用他願意規劃啟程\n\n15\n00:05:29,597 --> 00:05:48,404\n希望今年底可以絕標代表什麼都還沒有招標出去啊河山廠的甘廚廠連招標都還沒有完成我都不要問完工連動工都沒有動工我們按照最理想的情況假設今年招標完成明年動工最快最快也要七年後121年才有可能完工喔那如果按照現在藍白的提案\n\n16\n00:05:53,766 --> 00:06:00,829\n要來公投今年明年河山廠就要來研議叫無縫接軌來重啟讓你無縫接軌好了最多再用幾年再做四年還是得要停機啊是不是這個樣子因為就是我們一再說的核電的使用你要考量是它的這個核廢料如何處置嘛這個不是未來式這是現在進行式\n\n17\n00:06:17,546 --> 00:06:31,112\n如果研議了現在無縫接軌直接使用了結果核三廠的燃料池的核廢料最多最多你只能再用四年沒地方放因為該是儲存廠七年以後最快還是七年喔有可能是八年九年以後才會蓋好嘛那請問四年到了\n\n18\n00:06:35,851 --> 00:06:42,520\n是不是就要停機如果不停機那這些使用過的燃料棒請問要放到哪裡燃料池滿了沒地方放了啊這個不是說核廢料放你家還是我家的問題我連乾式廚藥廠都沒有你沒有這個空間怎麼放\n\n19\n00:06:51,011 --> 00:06:55,875\n不是兒戲大家開玩笑討論吵架說不然放我家你家沒有燃料池怎麼放對不對這是很務實的問題所以因為接下來這個公投案也提出了未來倘若要舉行公投核安會作為核電廠安全的主管機關我們必須要負責任的向民眾說明倘若要因為他的這個公投提案內的文字大家要注意喔他是說要儘速運轉\n\n20\n00:07:18,752 --> 00:07:40,867\n他不是說等你評估好了乾式儲存廠蓋好了再來運轉不是他說要進促所以一定要告訴國人按照我們河山廠既有的這個池燃料池儲存的狀況最多最多也只能再用四年還是等要停機等到就算想要運轉也必須等到我們乾式儲存廠興建完成乾式儲存廠興建完成才有可能有繼續運轉的可能性\n\n21\n00:07:49,112 --> 00:08:09,081\n才有可能有他們提案要延長20年的可能性這一點這個資訊我認為一定要讓國人清楚的知道因為我個人認為第一個安全的考量我們之前提過基於安全的考量我也和三長我認為和三長的言議是要三思的第二個即便提出這樣子的方案\n\n22\n00:08:10,663 --> 00:08:26,967\n我們要為了再運轉四年還是得要停機為了再運轉四年就要來舉辦這個全國的公投國人知道他們投下去的是河山廠再運轉四年不是運轉二十年這個是事實社會大眾要去思考因為當然都是有利有弊到底是利大於弊還是弊大於利\n\n23\n00:08:36,601 --> 00:08:55,420\n它使用的這個效期是否符合這樣子的成本效應呢一定要清楚的讓國人知道這一題在討論的是河山廠再繼續運轉四年不是二十年因為繼續運轉二十年它的前提的條件是等到我們七年以後\n\n24\n00:08:56,101 --> 00:09:06,733\n或者八年以後核三廠的乾式儲存廠興建完成才有它的可行性可開始評估好不好一定要把資訊清楚的向國人來說明好謝謝謝謝主席好諸位請回接下來我請你的中研院\n\n25\n00:09:17,300 --> 00:09:43,394\n時間看錯了抱歉副院長好這個很關切的是因為剛剛前面委員有提到說我們教文會一直很支持中研院所以沒有刪除預算確實委員會沒有刪除但很遺憾今年到院會的時候歐小林委員還是以國民黨黨團的名義提出了來中研院的預算刪減一共刪除了兩百萬是在法學的研究那他的這個刪除的理由是認為你們中研院的法學研究沒有顯著貢獻\n\n26\n00:09:45,495 --> 00:10:01,398\n沒有顯著貢獻當時現在民眾黨的立委黃國昌委員他過去因為也待過你們中委院法律所所以我特別關心他的態度他也是表態支持就是說他也認為你們中委院法律法學研究是沒有顯著貢獻的\n\n27\n00:10:02,279 --> 00:10:18,660\n在我個人看來是有貢獻究竟顯不顯著它的主觀跟客觀的評量為何這個我們不得而知所以我是希望中研院未來你們要再多加跟委員來說明因為我相信絕對是有貢獻那你們要再去把它凸顯說我們貢獻對社會所在在哪邊好不好\n\n28\n00:10:21,343 --> 00:10:44,830\n好謝謝最後主席可以給我一分半的時間因為我很關心AI基本法我自己也會有提案中研院在去年的時候有成立一個AI的風險研究小組你們提出了五點建議我想非常的重要其中你們認為台灣是需要及早來整備而且要有立法的因應也就是我們現在在研議的AI基本法\n\n29\n00:10:45,390 --> 00:10:48,715\n那麼去年應該是今年這個中研院也提出了AI在人文社會科學領域的應用的計畫我想請問這個計畫目前已經有核定了嗎那我們預計怎麼來進行是純粹研究還是有應用\n\n30\n00:11:01,848 --> 00:11:15,947\n這都有已經合訂了今年1月開始已經有20個計畫開始執行那如果委員想要知道詳細的狀況我們可以再提供後面的資料每一個所以今年已經有合訂了為什麼特別關注\n\n31\n00:11:16,287 --> 00:11:30,297\n我看其中有一個計畫它是預計用AI來偵測和解析詐騙犯罪的金流那它是由我們中研院社會學研究所提出跟刑事警察局、警大還有清華大學合作所以在我看來像我們就會對這個計畫未來的應用會非常的期待因為刑事警察局也參與其中那詐騙是台灣現在很重大的一個社會要解決的問題\n\n32\n00:11:41,425 --> 00:11:55,699\n所以我會希望說我們中央醫院未來的就關於AI相關的研究如果可以跟我們這個應用可以來結合的話我想我們社會會非常期待我們也非常的支持好謝謝委員我們會努力好謝謝主席好謝謝吳佩奕委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8642\t12303\t謝謝主席我請何安慧好有請何安慧陳主委好主委好因為等會要跟你討論有關於核一核二核三廠我們核廢料處置的問題那因為我今天要問的比較不是大的政策而是細節所以如果有業務相關的同仁要回答就直接來回答就可以了好\n33228\t39772\t那其實我要問的問題有很多時間也有限但是因為我剛剛聽到前面葉元之委員的質詢內容我有一些疑問必須要請教剛剛葉元之委員說這個核管法藍白提出來的修法也已經通過了\n48377\t66927\t是要讓已經停止運轉的這個核電廠也能夠再次運轉那就包含了核一核二核三但是依原之委員說如果只要台電沒有提出要再運轉的申請那自然就沒有延續或者繼續運轉的問題我現在請問一下有關於核三廠目前台電有沒有向核安會提出要再運轉的申請沒有\n74651\t83677\t沒有嘛 對但是呢昨天在立法院通過了什麼是由藍白來贊成提出通過就是關於核三廠要繼續運轉的公投案所以呢這個問題我覺得很奇怪確實台電沒有提出申請但是還是立法院的政黨可以的這些立法委員可以來提出公投案那就是國人現在關心的嘛到底核三會不會繼續的運轉\n104550\t124624\t這個不僅是關乎於台電有沒有提出申請它事實上是可能成為政黨之間的這個提案然後也會對整體社會造成有可能的影響也就是確實核三長在未來是有可能繼續運轉所以我們要關心的是什麼就是核廢料到底要如何處理\n126325\t136514\t這個不是意識形態裡面之爭我們要務實來看待我請教一下現在我們的核一核二核三廠的燃料棒目前是怎麼處置的\n139384\t165055\t縣型的情況報告委員目前燃料放就放在水池裡面但是都在放在燃料池內是不是那合一廠的部分因為他的乾除設施已經開始運轉所以已經有陸陸續續會把合一廠的廠內那個燃料池內的用過燃料搬移到乾除所陸續在移動\n166135\t190917\t所以呢在沒有乾式儲存草的情況下我們現狀這個使用過燃料棒就必須要放在燃料池內是不是這樣子是好那台灣目前我們在規劃的是室外乾除廠有兩座室內乾除廠有三座是不是是所以合三廠我們有沒有規劃室外乾除廠\n192295\t209940\t河山廠有規劃要興建一座室內乾式儲存對 河山廠我們規劃是室內乾式儲存 室外沒有嗎室外沒有好 那現在我們河一 河二廠的這個燃料池內的燃料棒這個是不是已經都幾乎要將近滿足了\n212281\t225172\t對 幾乎要滿儲所以未來我們合一合二廠的室外乾儲廠你會先做好嘛 室外對 新建完成之後就會把燃料棒從燃料池內移出到乾式儲存廠內 是嗎是的好 那現在和珊廠的燃料池內儲存的燃料棒的情況如何\n231758\t250164\t你們預計 因為現在是已經除液 已經停止 已經停機了所以目前是沒有持續增加燃料棒的問題但是按照你們原先預估的這個時程目前的燃料池 它的空間還能夠再儲存使用過燃料棒最多是幾年就如同委員所提供的 大概四年多\n255467\t280232\t四年多在乾除廠衛星艦完成的情況下河山廠的燃料池裡面燃料棒最多最多就是假設不管你要延續還是要再運轉最多最多就是只有四年份的燃料棒我們的燃料池可以儲存嘛對不對那目前在野黨修過的版本核管法的再運轉最長是可以到幾年\n282706\t293335\t最長是20年,按照新的法規在甘氏儲存廠未興建完成的情況下請問我們河山廠的燃料池有辦法來儲存20年的燃料棒嗎?所以沒辦法,所以必須要興建室內的必須要興建,沒有錯我們現在的甘氏儲存廠、河山廠我們預估最快最快什麼時候可以完成\n307196\t328146\t跟委員說明台電公司河山廠的室內甘薯計畫在今年的2月他已經辦理採購文件的公開閱覽然後台電公司是希望在今年底能夠決標那預期是在121年6月完工啟用他願意規劃啟程\n329597\t348404\t希望今年底可以絕標 代表什麼都還沒有招標出去啊河山廠的甘廚廠 連招標都還沒有完成我都不要問完工 連動工都沒有動工我們按照最理想的情況 假設今年招標完成 明年動工最快最快也要七年後 121年才有可能完工喔那如果按照現在藍白的提案\n353766\t360829\t要來公投 今年 明年 河山廠就要來研議 叫無縫接軌來重啟讓你無縫接軌好了 最多再用幾年 再做四年還是得要停機啊 是不是這個樣子因為就是我們一再說的 核電的使用 你要考量是它的這個核廢料如何處置嘛 這個不是未來式 這是現在進行式\n377546\t391112\t如果研議了 現在無縫接軌直接使用了結果 核三廠的燃料池的核廢料最多最多 你只能再用四年沒地方放 因為該是儲存廠七年以後 最快還是七年喔有可能是八年 九年以後 才會蓋好嘛那請問 四年到了\n395851\t402520\t是不是就要停機如果不停機那這些使用過的燃料棒請問要放到哪裡燃料池滿了沒地方放了啊這個不是說核廢料放你家還是我家的問題我連乾式廚藥廠都沒有你沒有這個空間怎麼放\n411011\t415875\t不是兒戲大家開玩笑討論吵架說不然放我家你家沒有燃料池怎麼放對不對這是很務實的問題所以因為接下來這個公投案也提出了未來倘若要舉行公投核安會作為核電廠安全的主管機關我們必須要負責任的向民眾說明倘若要因為他的這個公投提案內的文字大家要注意喔他是說要儘速運轉\n438752\t460867\t他不是說等你評估好了乾式儲存廠蓋好了再來運轉不是他說要進促所以一定要告訴國人按照我們河山廠既有的這個池燃料池儲存的狀況最多最多也只能再用四年還是等要停機等到就算想要運轉也必須等到我們乾式儲存廠興建完成乾式儲存廠興建完成才有可能有繼續運轉的可能性\n469112\t489081\t才有可能有他們提案要延長20年的可能性這一點這個資訊我認為一定要讓國人清楚的知道因為我個人認為第一個安全的考量我們之前提過基於安全的考量我也和三長我認為和三長的言議是要三思的第二個即便提出這樣子的方案\n490663\t506967\t我們要為了再運轉四年還是得要停機為了再運轉四年就要來舉辦這個全國的公投國人知道他們投下去的是河山廠再運轉四年不是運轉二十年這個是事實社會大眾要去思考因為當然都是有利有弊到底是利大於弊還是弊大於利\n516601\t535420\t它使用的這個效期是否符合這樣子的成本效應呢一定要清楚的讓國人知道這一題在討論的是河山廠再繼續運轉四年不是二十年因為繼續運轉二十年它的前提的條件是等到我們七年以後\n536101\t546733\t或者八年以後 核三廠的乾式儲存廠興建完成才有它的可行性 可開始評估好不好 一定要把資訊清楚的向國人來說明好 謝謝 謝謝主席好 諸位請回 接下來我請你的中研院\n557300\t583394\t時間看錯了抱歉副院長好這個很關切的是因為剛剛前面委員有提到說我們教文會一直很支持中研院所以沒有刪除預算確實委員會沒有刪除但很遺憾今年到院會的時候歐小林委員還是以國民黨黨團的名義提出了來中研院的預算刪減一共刪除了兩百萬是在法學的研究那他的這個刪除的理由是認為你們中研院的法學研究沒有顯著貢獻\n585495\t601398\t沒有顯著貢獻當時現在民眾黨的立委黃國昌委員他過去因為也待過你們中委院法律所所以我特別關心他的態度他也是表態支持就是說他也認為你們中委院法律法學研究是沒有顯著貢獻的\n602279\t618660\t在我個人看來是有貢獻究竟顯不顯著它的主觀跟客觀的評量為何這個我們不得而知所以我是希望中研院未來你們要再多加跟委員來說明因為我相信絕對是有貢獻那你們要再去把它凸顯說我們貢獻對社會所在在哪邊好不好\n621343\t644830\t好 謝謝最後主席可以給我一分半的時間因為我很關心AI基本法我自己也會有提案中研院在去年的時候有成立一個AI的風險研究小組你們提出了五點建議我想非常的重要其中你們認為台灣是需要及早來整備而且要有立法的因應也就是我們現在在研議的AI基本法\n645390\t648715\t那麼去年應該是今年這個中研院也提出了AI在人文社會科學領域的應用的計畫我想請問這個計畫目前已經有核定了嗎那我們預計怎麼來進行是純粹研究還是有應用\n661848\t675947\t這都有已經合訂了今年1月開始已經有20個計畫開始執行那如果委員想要知道詳細的狀況我們可以再提供後面的資料每一個所以今年已經有合訂了為什麼特別關注\n676287\t690297\t我看其中有一個計畫它是預計用AI來偵測和解析詐騙犯罪的金流那它是由我們中研院社會學研究所提出跟刑事警察局、警大還有清華大學合作所以在我看來像我們就會對這個計畫未來的應用會非常的期待因為刑事警察局也參與其中那詐騙是台灣現在很重大的一個社會要解決的問題\n701425\t715699\t所以我會希望說我們中央醫院未來的就關於AI相關的研究如果可以跟我們這個應用可以來結合的話我想我們社會會非常期待我們也非常的支持好謝謝委員我們會努力好謝謝主席好謝謝吳佩奕委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席我請何安慧好有請何安慧陳主委好主委好因為等會要跟你討論有關於核一核二核三廠我們核廢料處置的問題那因為我今天要問的比較不是大的政策而是細節所以如果有業務相關的同仁要回答就直接來回答就可以了好\n那其實我要問的問題有很多時間也有限但是因為我剛剛聽到前面葉元之委員的質詢內容我有一些疑問必須要請教剛剛葉元之委員說這個核管法藍白提出來的修法也已經通過了\n是要讓已經停止運轉的這個核電廠也能夠再次運轉那就包含了核一核二核三但是依原之委員說如果只要台電沒有提出要再運轉的申請那自然就沒有延續或者繼續運轉的問題我現在請問一下有關於核三廠目前台電有沒有向核安會提出要再運轉的申請沒有\n沒有嘛 對但是呢昨天在立法院通過了什麼是由藍白來贊成提出通過就是關於核三廠要繼續運轉的公投案所以呢這個問題我覺得很奇怪確實台電沒有提出申請但是還是立法院的政黨可以的這些立法委員可以來提出公投案那就是國人現在關心的嘛到底核三會不會繼續的運轉\n這個不僅是關乎於台電有沒有提出申請它事實上是可能成為政黨之間的這個提案然後也會對整體社會造成有可能的影響也就是確實核三長在未來是有可能繼續運轉所以我們要關心的是什麼就是核廢料到底要如何處理\n這個不是意識形態裡面之爭我們要務實來看待我請教一下現在我們的核一核二核三廠的燃料棒目前是怎麼處置的\n縣型的情況報告委員目前燃料放就放在水池裡面但是都在放在燃料池內是不是那合一廠的部分因為他的乾除設施已經開始運轉所以已經有陸陸續續會把合一廠的廠內那個燃料池內的用過燃料搬移到乾除所陸續在移動\n所以呢在沒有乾式儲存草的情況下我們現狀這個使用過燃料棒就必須要放在燃料池內是不是這樣子是好那台灣目前我們在規劃的是室外乾除廠有兩座室內乾除廠有三座是不是是所以合三廠我們有沒有規劃室外乾除廠\n河山廠有規劃要興建一座室內乾式儲存對 河山廠我們規劃是室內乾式儲存 室外沒有嗎室外沒有好 那現在我們河一 河二廠的這個燃料池內的燃料棒這個是不是已經都幾乎要將近滿足了\n對 幾乎要滿儲所以未來我們合一合二廠的室外乾儲廠你會先做好嘛 室外對 新建完成之後就會把燃料棒從燃料池內移出到乾式儲存廠內 是嗎是的好 那現在和珊廠的燃料池內儲存的燃料棒的情況如何\n你們預計 因為現在是已經除液 已經停止 已經停機了所以目前是沒有持續增加燃料棒的問題但是按照你們原先預估的這個時程目前的燃料池 它的空間還能夠再儲存使用過燃料棒最多是幾年就如同委員所提供的 大概四年多\n四年多在乾除廠衛星艦完成的情況下河山廠的燃料池裡面燃料棒最多最多就是假設不管你要延續還是要再運轉最多最多就是只有四年份的燃料棒我們的燃料池可以儲存嘛對不對那目前在野黨修過的版本核管法的再運轉最長是可以到幾年\n最長是20年,按照新的法規在甘氏儲存廠未興建完成的情況下請問我們河山廠的燃料池有辦法來儲存20年的燃料棒嗎?所以沒辦法,所以必須要興建室內的必須要興建,沒有錯我們現在的甘氏儲存廠、河山廠我們預估最快最快什麼時候可以完成\n跟委員說明台電公司河山廠的室內甘薯計畫在今年的2月他已經辦理採購文件的公開閱覽然後台電公司是希望在今年底能夠決標那預期是在121年6月完工啟用他願意規劃啟程\n希望今年底可以絕標 代表什麼都還沒有招標出去啊河山廠的甘廚廠 連招標都還沒有完成我都不要問完工 連動工都沒有動工我們按照最理想的情況 假設今年招標完成 明年動工最快最快也要七年後 121年才有可能完工喔那如果按照現在藍白的提案\n要來公投 今年 明年 河山廠就要來研議 叫無縫接軌來重啟讓你無縫接軌好了 最多再用幾年 再做四年還是得要停機啊 是不是這個樣子因為就是我們一再說的 核電的使用 你要考量是它的這個核廢料如何處置嘛 這個不是未來式 這是現在進行式\n如果研議了 現在無縫接軌直接使用了結果 核三廠的燃料池的核廢料最多最多 你只能再用四年沒地方放 因為該是儲存廠七年以後 最快還是七年喔有可能是八年 九年以後 才會蓋好嘛那請問 四年到了\n是不是就要停機如果不停機那這些使用過的燃料棒請問要放到哪裡燃料池滿了沒地方放了啊這個不是說核廢料放你家還是我家的問題我連乾式廚藥廠都沒有你沒有這個空間怎麼放\n不是兒戲大家開玩笑討論吵架說不然放我家你家沒有燃料池怎麼放對不對這是很務實的問題所以因為接下來這個公投案也提出了未來倘若要舉行公投核安會作為核電廠安全的主管機關我們必須要負責任的向民眾說明倘若要因為他的這個公投提案內的文字大家要注意喔他是說要儘速運轉\n他不是說等你評估好了乾式儲存廠蓋好了再來運轉不是他說要進促所以一定要告訴國人按照我們河山廠既有的這個池燃料池儲存的狀況最多最多也只能再用四年還是等要停機等到就算想要運轉也必須等到我們乾式儲存廠興建完成乾式儲存廠興建完成才有可能有繼續運轉的可能性\n才有可能有他們提案要延長20年的可能性這一點這個資訊我認為一定要讓國人清楚的知道因為我個人認為第一個安全的考量我們之前提過基於安全的考量我也和三長我認為和三長的言議是要三思的第二個即便提出這樣子的方案\n我們要為了再運轉四年還是得要停機為了再運轉四年就要來舉辦這個全國的公投國人知道他們投下去的是河山廠再運轉四年不是運轉二十年這個是事實社會大眾要去思考因為當然都是有利有弊到底是利大於弊還是弊大於利\n它使用的這個效期是否符合這樣子的成本效應呢一定要清楚的讓國人知道這一題在討論的是河山廠再繼續運轉四年不是二十年因為繼續運轉二十年它的前提的條件是等到我們七年以後\n或者八年以後 核三廠的乾式儲存廠興建完成才有它的可行性 可開始評估好不好 一定要把資訊清楚的向國人來說明好 謝謝 謝謝主席好 諸位請回 接下來我請你的中研院\n時間看錯了抱歉副院長好這個很關切的是因為剛剛前面委員有提到說我們教文會一直很支持中研院所以沒有刪除預算確實委員會沒有刪除但很遺憾今年到院會的時候歐小林委員還是以國民黨黨團的名義提出了來中研院的預算刪減一共刪除了兩百萬是在法學的研究那他的這個刪除的理由是認為你們中研院的法學研究沒有顯著貢獻\n沒有顯著貢獻當時現在民眾黨的立委黃國昌委員他過去因為也待過你們中委院法律所所以我特別關心他的態度他也是表態支持就是說他也認為你們中委院法律法學研究是沒有顯著貢獻的\n在我個人看來是有貢獻究竟顯不顯著它的主觀跟客觀的評量為何這個我們不得而知所以我是希望中研院未來你們要再多加跟委員來說明因為我相信絕對是有貢獻那你們要再去把它凸顯說我們貢獻對社會所在在哪邊好不好\n好 謝謝最後主席可以給我一分半的時間因為我很關心AI基本法我自己也會有提案中研院在去年的時候有成立一個AI的風險研究小組你們提出了五點建議我想非常的重要其中你們認為台灣是需要及早來整備而且要有立法的因應也就是我們現在在研議的AI基本法\n那麼去年應該是今年這個中研院也提出了AI在人文社會科學領域的應用的計畫我想請問這個計畫目前已經有核定了嗎那我們預計怎麼來進行是純粹研究還是有應用\n這都有已經合訂了今年1月開始已經有20個計畫開始執行那如果委員想要知道詳細的狀況我們可以再提供後面的資料每一個所以今年已經有合訂了為什麼特別關注\n我看其中有一個計畫它是預計用AI來偵測和解析詐騙犯罪的金流那它是由我們中研院社會學研究所提出跟刑事警察局、警大還有清華大學合作所以在我看來像我們就會對這個計畫未來的應用會非常的期待因為刑事警察局也參與其中那詐騙是台灣現在很重大的一個社會要解決的問題\n所以我會希望說我們中央醫院未來的就關於AI相關的研究如果可以跟我們這個應用可以來結合的話我想我們社會會非常期待我們也非常的支持好謝謝委員我們會努力好謝謝主席好謝謝吳佩奕委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.642 --> 00:12.303\n謝謝主席我請何安慧好有請何安慧陳主委好主委好因為等會要跟你討論有關於核一核二核三廠我們核廢料處置的問題那因為我今天要問的比較不是大的政策而是細節所以如果有業務相關的同仁要回答就直接來回答就可以了好\n\n00:33.228 --> 00:39.772\n那其實我要問的問題有很多時間也有限但是因為我剛剛聽到前面葉元之委員的質詢內容我有一些疑問必須要請教剛剛葉元之委員說這個核管法藍白提出來的修法也已經通過了\n\n00:48.377 --> 01:06.927\n是要讓已經停止運轉的這個核電廠也能夠再次運轉那就包含了核一核二核三但是依原之委員說如果只要台電沒有提出要再運轉的申請那自然就沒有延續或者繼續運轉的問題我現在請問一下有關於核三廠目前台電有沒有向核安會提出要再運轉的申請沒有\n\n01:14.651 --> 01:23.677\n沒有嘛對但是呢昨天在立法院通過了什麼是由藍白來贊成提出通過就是關於核三廠要繼續運轉的公投案所以呢這個問題我覺得很奇怪確實台電沒有提出申請但是還是立法院的政黨可以的這些立法委員可以來提出公投案那就是國人現在關心的嘛到底核三會不會繼續的運轉\n\n01:44.550 --> 02:04.624\n這個不僅是關乎於台電有沒有提出申請它事實上是可能成為政黨之間的這個提案然後也會對整體社會造成有可能的影響也就是確實核三長在未來是有可能繼續運轉所以我們要關心的是什麼就是核廢料到底要如何處理\n\n02:06.325 --> 02:16.514\n這個不是意識形態裡面之爭我們要務實來看待我請教一下現在我們的核一核二核三廠的燃料棒目前是怎麼處置的\n\n02:19.384 --> 02:45.055\n縣型的情況報告委員目前燃料放就放在水池裡面但是都在放在燃料池內是不是那合一廠的部分因為他的乾除設施已經開始運轉所以已經有陸陸續續會把合一廠的廠內那個燃料池內的用過燃料搬移到乾除所陸續在移動\n\n02:46.135 --> 03:10.917\n所以呢在沒有乾式儲存草的情況下我們現狀這個使用過燃料棒就必須要放在燃料池內是不是這樣子是好那台灣目前我們在規劃的是室外乾除廠有兩座室內乾除廠有三座是不是是所以合三廠我們有沒有規劃室外乾除廠\n\n03:12.295 --> 03:29.940\n河山廠有規劃要興建一座室內乾式儲存對河山廠我們規劃是室內乾式儲存室外沒有嗎室外沒有好那現在我們河一河二廠的這個燃料池內的燃料棒這個是不是已經都幾乎要將近滿足了\n\n03:32.281 --> 03:45.172\n對幾乎要滿儲所以未來我們合一合二廠的室外乾儲廠你會先做好嘛室外對新建完成之後就會把燃料棒從燃料池內移出到乾式儲存廠內是嗎是的好那現在和珊廠的燃料池內儲存的燃料棒的情況如何\n\n03:51.758 --> 04:10.164\n你們預計因為現在是已經除液已經停止已經停機了所以目前是沒有持續增加燃料棒的問題但是按照你們原先預估的這個時程目前的燃料池它的空間還能夠再儲存使用過燃料棒最多是幾年就如同委員所提供的大概四年多\n\n04:15.467 --> 04:40.232\n四年多在乾除廠衛星艦完成的情況下河山廠的燃料池裡面燃料棒最多最多就是假設不管你要延續還是要再運轉最多最多就是只有四年份的燃料棒我們的燃料池可以儲存嘛對不對那目前在野黨修過的版本核管法的再運轉最長是可以到幾年\n\n04:42.706 --> 04:53.335\n最長是20年,按照新的法規在甘氏儲存廠未興建完成的情況下請問我們河山廠的燃料池有辦法來儲存20年的燃料棒嗎?所以沒辦法,所以必須要興建室內的必須要興建,沒有錯我們現在的甘氏儲存廠、河山廠我們預估最快最快什麼時候可以完成\n\n05:07.196 --> 05:28.146\n跟委員說明台電公司河山廠的室內甘薯計畫在今年的2月他已經辦理採購文件的公開閱覽然後台電公司是希望在今年底能夠決標那預期是在121年6月完工啟用他願意規劃啟程\n\n05:29.597 --> 05:48.404\n希望今年底可以絕標代表什麼都還沒有招標出去啊河山廠的甘廚廠連招標都還沒有完成我都不要問完工連動工都沒有動工我們按照最理想的情況假設今年招標完成明年動工最快最快也要七年後121年才有可能完工喔那如果按照現在藍白的提案\n\n05:53.766 --> 06:00.829\n要來公投今年明年河山廠就要來研議叫無縫接軌來重啟讓你無縫接軌好了最多再用幾年再做四年還是得要停機啊是不是這個樣子因為就是我們一再說的核電的使用你要考量是它的這個核廢料如何處置嘛這個不是未來式這是現在進行式\n\n06:17.546 --> 06:31.112\n如果研議了現在無縫接軌直接使用了結果核三廠的燃料池的核廢料最多最多你只能再用四年沒地方放因為該是儲存廠七年以後最快還是七年喔有可能是八年九年以後才會蓋好嘛那請問四年到了\n\n06:35.851 --> 06:42.520\n是不是就要停機如果不停機那這些使用過的燃料棒請問要放到哪裡燃料池滿了沒地方放了啊這個不是說核廢料放你家還是我家的問題我連乾式廚藥廠都沒有你沒有這個空間怎麼放\n\n06:51.011 --> 06:55.875\n不是兒戲大家開玩笑討論吵架說不然放我家你家沒有燃料池怎麼放對不對這是很務實的問題所以因為接下來這個公投案也提出了未來倘若要舉行公投核安會作為核電廠安全的主管機關我們必須要負責任的向民眾說明倘若要因為他的這個公投提案內的文字大家要注意喔他是說要儘速運轉\n\n07:18.752 --> 07:40.867\n他不是說等你評估好了乾式儲存廠蓋好了再來運轉不是他說要進促所以一定要告訴國人按照我們河山廠既有的這個池燃料池儲存的狀況最多最多也只能再用四年還是等要停機等到就算想要運轉也必須等到我們乾式儲存廠興建完成乾式儲存廠興建完成才有可能有繼續運轉的可能性\n\n07:49.112 --> 08:09.081\n才有可能有他們提案要延長20年的可能性這一點這個資訊我認為一定要讓國人清楚的知道因為我個人認為第一個安全的考量我們之前提過基於安全的考量我也和三長我認為和三長的言議是要三思的第二個即便提出這樣子的方案\n\n08:10.663 --> 08:26.967\n我們要為了再運轉四年還是得要停機為了再運轉四年就要來舉辦這個全國的公投國人知道他們投下去的是河山廠再運轉四年不是運轉二十年這個是事實社會大眾要去思考因為當然都是有利有弊到底是利大於弊還是弊大於利\n\n08:36.601 --> 08:55.420\n它使用的這個效期是否符合這樣子的成本效應呢一定要清楚的讓國人知道這一題在討論的是河山廠再繼續運轉四年不是二十年因為繼續運轉二十年它的前提的條件是等到我們七年以後\n\n08:56.101 --> 09:06.733\n或者八年以後核三廠的乾式儲存廠興建完成才有它的可行性可開始評估好不好一定要把資訊清楚的向國人來說明好謝謝謝謝主席好諸位請回接下來我請你的中研院\n\n09:17.300 --> 09:43.394\n時間看錯了抱歉副院長好這個很關切的是因為剛剛前面委員有提到說我們教文會一直很支持中研院所以沒有刪除預算確實委員會沒有刪除但很遺憾今年到院會的時候歐小林委員還是以國民黨黨團的名義提出了來中研院的預算刪減一共刪除了兩百萬是在法學的研究那他的這個刪除的理由是認為你們中研院的法學研究沒有顯著貢獻\n\n09:45.495 --> 10:01.398\n沒有顯著貢獻當時現在民眾黨的立委黃國昌委員他過去因為也待過你們中委院法律所所以我特別關心他的態度他也是表態支持就是說他也認為你們中委院法律法學研究是沒有顯著貢獻的\n\n10:02.279 --> 10:18.660\n在我個人看來是有貢獻究竟顯不顯著它的主觀跟客觀的評量為何這個我們不得而知所以我是希望中研院未來你們要再多加跟委員來說明因為我相信絕對是有貢獻那你們要再去把它凸顯說我們貢獻對社會所在在哪邊好不好\n\n10:21.343 --> 10:44.830\n好謝謝最後主席可以給我一分半的時間因為我很關心AI基本法我自己也會有提案中研院在去年的時候有成立一個AI的風險研究小組你們提出了五點建議我想非常的重要其中你們認為台灣是需要及早來整備而且要有立法的因應也就是我們現在在研議的AI基本法\n\n10:45.390 --> 10:48.715\n那麼去年應該是今年這個中研院也提出了AI在人文社會科學領域的應用的計畫我想請問這個計畫目前已經有核定了嗎那我們預計怎麼來進行是純粹研究還是有應用\n\n11:01.848 --> 11:15.947\n這都有已經合訂了今年1月開始已經有20個計畫開始執行那如果委員想要知道詳細的狀況我們可以再提供後面的資料每一個所以今年已經有合訂了為什麼特別關注\n\n11:16.287 --> 11:30.297\n我看其中有一個計畫它是預計用AI來偵測和解析詐騙犯罪的金流那它是由我們中研院社會學研究所提出跟刑事警察局、警大還有清華大學合作所以在我看來像我們就會對這個計畫未來的應用會非常的期待因為刑事警察局也參與其中那詐騙是台灣現在很重大的一個社會要解決的問題\n\n11:41.425 --> 11:55.699\n所以我會希望說我們中央醫院未來的就關於AI相關的研究如果可以跟我們這個應用可以來結合的話我想我們社會會非常期待我們也非常的支持好謝謝委員我們會努力好謝謝主席好謝謝吳佩奕委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.642,"end":12.303,"text":"謝謝主席我請何安慧好有請何安慧陳主委好主委好因為等會要跟你討論有關於核一核二核三廠我們核廢料處置的問題那因為我今天要問的比較不是大的政策而是細節所以如果有業務相關的同仁要回答就直接來回答就可以了好"},{"start":33.228,"end":39.772,"text":"那其實我要問的問題有很多時間也有限但是因為我剛剛聽到前面葉元之委員的質詢內容我有一些疑問必須要請教剛剛葉元之委員說這個核管法藍白提出來的修法也已經通過了"},{"start":48.377,"end":66.927,"text":"是要讓已經停止運轉的這個核電廠也能夠再次運轉那就包含了核一核二核三但是依原之委員說如果只要台電沒有提出要再運轉的申請那自然就沒有延續或者繼續運轉的問題我現在請問一下有關於核三廠目前台電有沒有向核安會提出要再運轉的申請沒有"},{"start":74.651,"end":83.677,"text":"沒有嘛 對但是呢昨天在立法院通過了什麼是由藍白來贊成提出通過就是關於核三廠要繼續運轉的公投案所以呢這個問題我覺得很奇怪確實台電沒有提出申請但是還是立法院的政黨可以的這些立法委員可以來提出公投案那就是國人現在關心的嘛到底核三會不會繼續的運轉"},{"start":104.55,"end":124.624,"text":"這個不僅是關乎於台電有沒有提出申請它事實上是可能成為政黨之間的這個提案然後也會對整體社會造成有可能的影響也就是確實核三長在未來是有可能繼續運轉所以我們要關心的是什麼就是核廢料到底要如何處理"},{"start":126.325,"end":136.514,"text":"這個不是意識形態裡面之爭我們要務實來看待我請教一下現在我們的核一核二核三廠的燃料棒目前是怎麼處置的"},{"start":139.384,"end":165.055,"text":"縣型的情況報告委員目前燃料放就放在水池裡面但是都在放在燃料池內是不是那合一廠的部分因為他的乾除設施已經開始運轉所以已經有陸陸續續會把合一廠的廠內那個燃料池內的用過燃料搬移到乾除所陸續在移動"},{"start":166.135,"end":190.917,"text":"所以呢在沒有乾式儲存草的情況下我們現狀這個使用過燃料棒就必須要放在燃料池內是不是這樣子是好那台灣目前我們在規劃的是室外乾除廠有兩座室內乾除廠有三座是不是是所以合三廠我們有沒有規劃室外乾除廠"},{"start":192.295,"end":209.94,"text":"河山廠有規劃要興建一座室內乾式儲存對 河山廠我們規劃是室內乾式儲存 室外沒有嗎室外沒有好 那現在我們河一 河二廠的這個燃料池內的燃料棒這個是不是已經都幾乎要將近滿足了"},{"start":212.281,"end":225.172,"text":"對 幾乎要滿儲所以未來我們合一合二廠的室外乾儲廠你會先做好嘛 室外對 新建完成之後就會把燃料棒從燃料池內移出到乾式儲存廠內 是嗎是的好 那現在和珊廠的燃料池內儲存的燃料棒的情況如何"},{"start":231.758,"end":250.164,"text":"你們預計 因為現在是已經除液 已經停止 已經停機了所以目前是沒有持續增加燃料棒的問題但是按照你們原先預估的這個時程目前的燃料池 它的空間還能夠再儲存使用過燃料棒最多是幾年就如同委員所提供的 大概四年多"},{"start":255.467,"end":280.232,"text":"四年多在乾除廠衛星艦完成的情況下河山廠的燃料池裡面燃料棒最多最多就是假設不管你要延續還是要再運轉最多最多就是只有四年份的燃料棒我們的燃料池可以儲存嘛對不對那目前在野黨修過的版本核管法的再運轉最長是可以到幾年"},{"start":282.706,"end":293.335,"text":"最長是20年,按照新的法規在甘氏儲存廠未興建完成的情況下請問我們河山廠的燃料池有辦法來儲存20年的燃料棒嗎?所以沒辦法,所以必須要興建室內的必須要興建,沒有錯我們現在的甘氏儲存廠、河山廠我們預估最快最快什麼時候可以完成"},{"start":307.196,"end":328.146,"text":"跟委員說明台電公司河山廠的室內甘薯計畫在今年的2月他已經辦理採購文件的公開閱覽然後台電公司是希望在今年底能夠決標那預期是在121年6月完工啟用他願意規劃啟程"},{"start":329.597,"end":348.404,"text":"希望今年底可以絕標 代表什麼都還沒有招標出去啊河山廠的甘廚廠 連招標都還沒有完成我都不要問完工 連動工都沒有動工我們按照最理想的情況 假設今年招標完成 明年動工最快最快也要七年後 121年才有可能完工喔那如果按照現在藍白的提案"},{"start":353.766,"end":360.829,"text":"要來公投 今年 明年 河山廠就要來研議 叫無縫接軌來重啟讓你無縫接軌好了 最多再用幾年 再做四年還是得要停機啊 是不是這個樣子因為就是我們一再說的 核電的使用 你要考量是它的這個核廢料如何處置嘛 這個不是未來式 這是現在進行式"},{"start":377.546,"end":391.112,"text":"如果研議了 現在無縫接軌直接使用了結果 核三廠的燃料池的核廢料最多最多 你只能再用四年沒地方放 因為該是儲存廠七年以後 最快還是七年喔有可能是八年 九年以後 才會蓋好嘛那請問 四年到了"},{"start":395.851,"end":402.52,"text":"是不是就要停機如果不停機那這些使用過的燃料棒請問要放到哪裡燃料池滿了沒地方放了啊這個不是說核廢料放你家還是我家的問題我連乾式廚藥廠都沒有你沒有這個空間怎麼放"},{"start":411.011,"end":415.875,"text":"不是兒戲大家開玩笑討論吵架說不然放我家你家沒有燃料池怎麼放對不對這是很務實的問題所以因為接下來這個公投案也提出了未來倘若要舉行公投核安會作為核電廠安全的主管機關我們必須要負責任的向民眾說明倘若要因為他的這個公投提案內的文字大家要注意喔他是說要儘速運轉"},{"start":438.752,"end":460.867,"text":"他不是說等你評估好了乾式儲存廠蓋好了再來運轉不是他說要進促所以一定要告訴國人按照我們河山廠既有的這個池燃料池儲存的狀況最多最多也只能再用四年還是等要停機等到就算想要運轉也必須等到我們乾式儲存廠興建完成乾式儲存廠興建完成才有可能有繼續運轉的可能性"},{"start":469.112,"end":489.081,"text":"才有可能有他們提案要延長20年的可能性這一點這個資訊我認為一定要讓國人清楚的知道因為我個人認為第一個安全的考量我們之前提過基於安全的考量我也和三長我認為和三長的言議是要三思的第二個即便提出這樣子的方案"},{"start":490.663,"end":506.967,"text":"我們要為了再運轉四年還是得要停機為了再運轉四年就要來舉辦這個全國的公投國人知道他們投下去的是河山廠再運轉四年不是運轉二十年這個是事實社會大眾要去思考因為當然都是有利有弊到底是利大於弊還是弊大於利"},{"start":516.601,"end":535.42,"text":"它使用的這個效期是否符合這樣子的成本效應呢一定要清楚的讓國人知道這一題在討論的是河山廠再繼續運轉四年不是二十年因為繼續運轉二十年它的前提的條件是等到我們七年以後"},{"start":536.101,"end":546.733,"text":"或者八年以後 核三廠的乾式儲存廠興建完成才有它的可行性 可開始評估好不好 一定要把資訊清楚的向國人來說明好 謝謝 謝謝主席好 諸位請回 接下來我請你的中研院"},{"start":557.3,"end":583.394,"text":"時間看錯了抱歉副院長好這個很關切的是因為剛剛前面委員有提到說我們教文會一直很支持中研院所以沒有刪除預算確實委員會沒有刪除但很遺憾今年到院會的時候歐小林委員還是以國民黨黨團的名義提出了來中研院的預算刪減一共刪除了兩百萬是在法學的研究那他的這個刪除的理由是認為你們中研院的法學研究沒有顯著貢獻"},{"start":585.495,"end":601.398,"text":"沒有顯著貢獻當時現在民眾黨的立委黃國昌委員他過去因為也待過你們中委院法律所所以我特別關心他的態度他也是表態支持就是說他也認為你們中委院法律法學研究是沒有顯著貢獻的"},{"start":602.279,"end":618.66,"text":"在我個人看來是有貢獻究竟顯不顯著它的主觀跟客觀的評量為何這個我們不得而知所以我是希望中研院未來你們要再多加跟委員來說明因為我相信絕對是有貢獻那你們要再去把它凸顯說我們貢獻對社會所在在哪邊好不好"},{"start":621.343,"end":644.83,"text":"好 謝謝最後主席可以給我一分半的時間因為我很關心AI基本法我自己也會有提案中研院在去年的時候有成立一個AI的風險研究小組你們提出了五點建議我想非常的重要其中你們認為台灣是需要及早來整備而且要有立法的因應也就是我們現在在研議的AI基本法"},{"start":645.39,"end":648.715,"text":"那麼去年應該是今年這個中研院也提出了AI在人文社會科學領域的應用的計畫我想請問這個計畫目前已經有核定了嗎那我們預計怎麼來進行是純粹研究還是有應用"},{"start":661.848,"end":675.947,"text":"這都有已經合訂了今年1月開始已經有20個計畫開始執行那如果委員想要知道詳細的狀況我們可以再提供後面的資料每一個所以今年已經有合訂了為什麼特別關注"},{"start":676.287,"end":690.297,"text":"我看其中有一個計畫它是預計用AI來偵測和解析詐騙犯罪的金流那它是由我們中研院社會學研究所提出跟刑事警察局、警大還有清華大學合作所以在我看來像我們就會對這個計畫未來的應用會非常的期待因為刑事警察局也參與其中那詐騙是台灣現在很重大的一個社會要解決的問題"},{"start":701.425,"end":715.699,"text":"所以我會希望說我們中央醫院未來的就關於AI相關的研究如果可以跟我們這個應用可以來結合的話我想我們社會會非常期待我們也非常的支持好謝謝委員我們會努力好謝謝主席好謝謝吳佩奕委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":705,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（11時23分）謝謝主席，我請核安會。"],["主席：有請核安會陳主委。"],["吳委員沛憶：主委好。因為等會要跟你討論有關於核一、核二、核三廠核廢料處置的問題，因為我今天要問的比較不是大的政策，而是細節，所以如果有業務相關的同仁要回答就直接來回答就可以了。"],["陳主任委員明真：好。"],["吳委員沛憶：其實我要問的問題有很多，時間也有限，但是我剛剛聽到前面葉元之委員的質詢內容，我有一些疑問必須要請教，剛剛葉元之委員說，藍白提出來的核管法修法已經通過了，是要讓已經停止運轉的核電廠能夠再次運轉，那就包含了核一、核二、核三，但是葉元之委員說只要台電沒有提出要再運轉的申請，自然就沒有延役或繼續運轉的問題，我現在請問一下，有關於核三廠，目前台電有沒有向核安會提出要再運轉的申請？"],["陳主任委員明真：沒有。"],["吳委員沛憶：沒有嘛！但是昨天在立法院通過了什麼？是由藍白來提出通過關於核三廠要繼續運轉的公投案，所以這個問題我覺得很奇怪，確實台電沒有提出申請，但是立法院這些政黨的立法委員可以來提出公投案，這就是國人現在關心的嘛！到底核三會不會繼續運轉？這個不僅是關乎於台電有沒有提出申請，事實上它可能成為政黨之間的提案，也有可能對整體社會造成影響，也就是核三廠在未來確實有可能繼續運轉，所以我們要關心的是什麼？就是核廢料到底要如何處理，這個不是意識形態理念之爭，我們要務實來看待，我請教一下，目前核一、核二、核三廠的燃料棒是怎麼處置？現行的情況。"],["陳組長文泉：報告委員，目前燃料棒……"],["吳委員沛憶：放在哪裡？"],["陳組長文泉：就在水池裡面，但是核一……"],["吳委員沛憶：放在燃料池內，是不是？"],["陳組長文泉：放在燃料池內，但是核一廠的部分因為它的乾貯設施已經開始運轉，所以會陸陸續續把燃料池內用過的燃料搬移到乾式貯存場。"],["吳委員沛憶：陸續在移動。"],["陳組長文泉：陸續在移。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以在沒有乾式貯存場的情況下，我們的現狀，使用過的燃料棒就必須要放在燃料池內，是不是這樣子？"],["陳組長文泉：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，臺灣目前在規劃的是，室外乾貯場有2座，室內乾貯場有3座，是不是？"],["陳組長文泉：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：核三廠有沒有規劃室外乾貯場？"],["陳組長文泉：核三廠有規劃要興建1座室內乾式貯存。"],["吳委員沛憶：核三廠的規劃是室內乾式貯存，室外沒有嘛？"],["陳組長文泉：對，室外沒有。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，現在核一、核二廠的燃料池內，燃料棒是不是幾乎要滿貯了？"],["陳組長文泉：幾乎。"],["吳委員沛憶：幾乎要滿貯，所以未來核一、核二廠的室外乾貯場你會先做好嘛？室外。"],["陳組長文泉：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：興建完成之後，就會把燃料棒從燃料池內移到乾式貯存場內，是嗎？"],["陳組長文泉：是的。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，現在核三廠的燃料池內，貯存燃料棒的情況如何？因為現在已經除役，已經停機了，所以目前沒有持續增加燃料棒的問題，但是按照你們原先預估的時程，目前燃料池的空間能夠貯存使用過的燃料棒最多是幾年？"],["高組長斌：就如同委員所提供的資料，大概四年多。"],["吳委員沛憶：四年多。"],["高組長斌：如果空間……"],["吳委員沛憶：在乾貯場未興建完成的情況下，核三廠燃料池裡面的燃料棒，不管你要延役還是要再運轉，我們的燃料池最多最多就是只有4年份的燃料棒可以貯存嘛！對不對？"],["高組長斌：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，目前在野黨修過的核管法版本，再運轉最長可以到幾年？"],["高組長斌：最長是20年。"],["吳委員沛憶：20年。"],["高組長斌：按照新的法規。"],["吳委員沛憶：在乾式貯存場未興建完成的情況下，請問核三廠的燃料池有辦法來貯存20年的燃料棒嗎？"],["高組長斌：沒辦法。"],["吳委員沛憶：那怎麼辦？"],["高組長斌：所以台電公司必須要興建室內的……"],["吳委員沛憶：必須要興建，沒有錯。現在核三廠的乾式貯存場，我們預估最快最快什麼時候可以完成？"],["陳組長文泉：跟委員說明，台電公司核三廠的室內乾貯計畫在今年2月已經辦理採購文件的公開閱覽，台電公司是希望在今年底能夠決標，預期在121年6月完工啟用，它的原規劃期程。"],["吳委員沛憶：希望今年底可以決標，代表什麼？都還沒有招標出去啊！"],["陳組長文泉：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：核三廠的乾貯場連招標都還沒有完成，我都不要問完工，連動工都沒有動工！我們按照最理想的情況，假設今年招標完成，明年動工，最快最快也要7年後，121年才有可能完工哦！如果按照現在藍白的提案要來公投，今年、明年核三廠就要延役，就要無縫接軌來重啟，讓你無縫接軌好了，最多再用幾年？再做4年還是得要停機啊！是不是這個樣子？因為就是我們一再說的，核電的使用，你要考量的是核廢料如何處置嘛！這個不是未來式，這是現在進行式，如果延役了，現在無縫接軌直接使用了，結果核三廠的燃料池最多最多你只能再用4年，核廢料沒地方放，因為乾式貯存場要7年以後，最快還要7年哦！有可能是8年、9年以後才會蓋好嘛！那請問4年到了是不是就要停機？如果不停機，這些使用過的燃料棒請問要放到哪裡？燃料池滿了，沒地方放了啊！這個不是核廢料放你家還是我家的問題，連乾式貯存場都沒有，你沒有這個空間怎麼放？不是兒戲，大家開玩笑，討論、吵架說不然放我家，你家沒有燃料池怎麼放？對不對？這是很務實的問題。","因為接下來這個公投案也提出了，未來倘若要舉行公投，核安會作為核電、核電廠安全的主管機關，我們必須要負責任地向民眾說明，因為這個公投提案內的文字大家要注意哦！它是說要儘速運轉，它不是說等你評估好了，乾式貯存場蓋好了再來運轉，不是，它說要儘速，所以一定要告訴國人，按照核三廠既有的燃料池貯存的狀況，最多最多也只能再用4年，還是得要停機，就算想要運轉也必須等到乾式貯存場興建完成，乾式貯存場興建完成才有繼續運轉的可能性，才有他們提案要延長20年的可能性，這個資訊我認為一定要讓國人清楚地知道。","我個人認為第一個，安全的考量，我們之前提過，基於安全的考量，我認為核三廠的延役是要三思的。第二個，即便提出這樣子的方案，我們為了再運轉4年還是得要停機，為了再運轉4年就要來舉辦全國公投，國人知道他們投下去的是核三廠再運轉4年，不是運轉20年，這個是事實，社會大眾要去思考，因為當然都是有利有弊，到底是利大於弊還是弊大於利？它使用的效期是否符合成本效益？一定要清楚地讓國人知道這一題在討論的是核三廠再繼續運轉4年，不是20年，因為繼續運轉20年的前提條件是等到7年以後或者8年以後，核三廠的乾式貯存場興建完成才有它的可行性可開始評估，好不好？一定要把資訊清楚地向國人來說明，好，謝謝，主委請回。","接下來我請中研院。"],["周副院長美吟：委員好。"],["吳委員沛憶：副院長好。我很關切的是，因為剛剛前面的委員有提到，我們教文會一直很支持中研院，所以沒有刪除預算，確實，委員會沒有刪除。但很遺憾，今年到院會的時候，翁曉玲委員還是以國民黨黨團的名義提出了中研院的預算刪減，在法學研究一共刪除了200萬，刪除的理由是他認為你們中研院的法學研究沒有顯著貢獻，而當時民眾黨的立委黃國昌委員，因為他過去也待過中研院法律所，所以我特別關心他的態度，他也是表態支持，就是說他也認為你們中研院法學研究是沒有顯著貢獻的。在我個人看來是有貢獻，究竟顯不顯著，他的主觀跟客觀的評量為何，這個我們不得而知，所以我希望中研院未來要再多加跟委員來說明，因為我相信絕對是有貢獻，你們要去凸顯它對社會的貢獻在哪邊，好不好？"],["周副院長美吟：好，謝謝委員。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，謝謝。最後，主席，可不可以給我一分半的時間？因為我很關心AI基本法，我自己也會有提案，那中研院在去年的時候有成立一個AI風險研究小組，你們提出了五點建議，我想非常地重要，其中你們認為臺灣需要及早來整備，而且要有立法的因應，也就是我們現在在研議的AI基本法。那麼今年中研院也提出了AI在人文社會科學領域的應用計畫，請問這個計畫目前已經有核定了嗎？預計怎麼樣來進行？是純粹研究還是有應用？"],["周副院長美吟：都有，已經核定了，今年1月開始，已經有20個計畫開始執行，如果委員想要知道詳細的狀況，我們可以再提供後面的資料，每一個計畫都是……"],["吳委員沛憶：好，所以今年已經有核定了。"],["周副院長美吟：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：我為什麼特別關心？我看其中有一個計畫是預計用AI來偵測和解析詐騙犯罪金流，它是由中研院社會學研究所提出，與刑事警察局、警大及清華大學合作，在我看來，我們對這個計畫未來的應用會非常地期待，因為刑事警察局也參與其中，而詐騙是臺灣現在很重大要解決的一個社會問題，所以我希望中研院未來關於AI相關的研究，如果可以和應用來結合的話，我想我們社會會非常期待，我們也非常地支持。"],["周副院長美吟：好，謝謝委員，我們會努力。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝吳沛憶委員，官員請回座。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員質詢，時間4分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":452,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-12","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","謝龍介","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葉元之","吳沛憶","鍾佳濱","萬美玲","范雲","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","林沛祥"],"page_start":381,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案6案；二、處理\n114年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算（公務預算）解凍案9案；三、處理114年\n度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院單位預算解凍案1案","agenda_id":"1145101_00009"}}}