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{\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 568.163, \"end\": 568.303, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 568.303, \"end\": 568.323, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,889 --> 00:00:04,431\n謝謝主席我們這個血汗委員會等了好幾個小時才輪到花園那我請我們衛福部次長還有社家署副署長\n\n2\n00:00:21,401 --> 00:00:43,837\n市長,我想今天我們大家共同討論凱凱這一個案子那我們也充分的討論,就稱呼主席講的,他說叫我前菜公公的好,我說他伯,那我想就是說跟市長跟副署長就是做一個探討,所謂社工的一個督導跟外聘的督導,他們前者上\n\n3\n00:00:45,411 --> 00:01:14,421\n權責上其實基本上有很多的一個分工那性質上也有很大的一個差異那如果我們說社工督導是機構內的主管那外聘的督導就是機構外的一個顧問是不是這樣子呢委員這張表其實做得很清楚他我想在現實的運作狀況下大家就是像委員這樣子的分類那個等一下時間暫停主席我的電腦沒有那個螢幕\n\n4\n00:01:36,107 --> 00:02:02,066\n不然這樣我不要問了啦主席借你的口就是講說凱凱案跟這個林業情沒有關係啊給你說就好了主席我要講結論啦大家委員都肥大你給他說就好你這個螢幕沒有出來啊你影響到我的質詢的品質啊所以我的重點就是要講這些剛剛後面螢幕剛剛是有\n\n5\n00:02:19,036 --> 00:02:20,757\n那我委屈一點,那你要不要幫我講,你幫我講我就不要問了\n\n6\n00:02:37,030 --> 00:03:02,248\n好謝謝主席我想說次長這個很明顯就是說用這個圖表裡頭我們去看到了就是說社工督導跟外聘的一個督導其實在權職上在身份上在功能上其實是完全不同的最重要就是說社工督導其實他是管理就是我們機構內的主管所以他是可以介入個案的而且他事實上有他機構內部對他的指揮監督職責\n\n7\n00:03:06,422 --> 00:03:32,101\n機構內部對他的社工督導因為他是聘他作為社工督導所以他有指揮監督的責任是啊那外聘督導是不是就誠如就是說我們是辦一個那個講座然後這是我們邀請就是外來的一個顧問還是一個講師這樣子的一個性質我想機構請外聘督導事實上就是讓這些經驗豐富或者是具有更多不同職能專業能力的這些專家來\n\n8\n00:03:33,762 --> 00:03:51,989\n對於我們機構內部的督導或者是工作人員提升他的職能那提供他們更多的資源跟了解是次長我請教你一下到底外聘督導他有沒有機會就是實際參與個案的一個環伺還是說他可以直接管理指揮我們機構內的人員嗎\n\n9\n00:03:55,211 --> 00:04:16,799\n實際上是說原來機構內部的社工督導或者是機構內他們的工作人員的訪視員或社工他事實上是在找外聘督導的過程中說我們需要請外聘督導來協助我們了解或給我們更多資訊說他也可以針對整個通案來做教育上面的協助\n\n10\n00:04:17,259 --> 00:04:42,950\n也可以針對特定個案說這個個案我處理得很困難或者說我有一些知識上的資訊我想市長你把這個外聘的一個督導跟我們的社工督導講的這個權責還有就是他的工作分配講得很清楚啦倒是本期有注意到國民黨之前有一位議員他在之前講的他說林彥琴就是受聘來監督整個居托房市計畫的一個督導\n\n11\n00:04:45,071 --> 00:05:00,401\n指控這個林委員隱匿身份假裝正義的第三方在這裡我想是不是就是說國民黨的議員其實對於就是整個志工的一個系統不熟悉所以他引用的一個錯誤\n\n12\n00:05:01,562 --> 00:05:24,166\n其實這完全就是說不是只有林業勤受到這樣的一個傷害在很多第一線的這個外聘的那個督導也受到了很多的一個傷害這個是混淆社社工就是這整體的社會對社工的一個認知當然我們也希望我們也希望藉由這樣的一個事件因為凱凱這是一個悲劇那這個悲劇在這個裡頭我們希望就是說\n\n13\n00:05:28,707 --> 00:05:45,900\n可以在這個整個事件裡頭我們得到了一些我們應該要得到的這個正確的一個那個觀念還有就是那個進捐兒童基金會這個是一個華人的一個基金會是不是\n\n14\n00:05:47,684 --> 00:06:02,809\n這個是進捐是法人基金會嗎對柴山法人我要請問一下這一位是我們的什麼官員社交署副署長你是我們科長科長科長我覺得你在立法院備詢你不應該是這樣的一個態度\n\n15\n00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:19,204\n當然我們知道就是說你們非常累了因為這個會議從早上9點到這個時候不要是這個樣子謝謝所以我想是這個是學校的一個好簡單的來講我想大家都把這個就是這兩個這兩個工作的前者講得非常清楚了我也不佔用大家太多的時間葉燕姿再來是葉燕姿嗎\n\n16\n00:06:35,538 --> 00:06:41,361\n你兩個不衝突啦不衝突啦好在這裡還是要強調啦就是說還給社會人員一個清白我們不要讓社會人員變成就是我們政治的一個提款機那這裡我也特別就是要跟這個\n\n17\n00:07:04,753 --> 00:07:24,122\n就我們的市長做一個建議就是說你們在督導這個地方政府的時候要明確去釐清外聘的一個督導的角色跟責任的一個邊界避免外界去誤會這個他的角色跟混淆第二個就是外聘的督導其實是很容易引發誤解的\n\n18\n00:07:25,703 --> 00:07:53,120\n所以說這個名稱需不需要修正這個我們把它當成是一個議題那也希望就是說大家來探討看看那希望就是兩個月內給我一個書面的一個資料那還有就是說我們的外聘專家改成外聘的顧問這個是不是更貼近我們的角色呢讓社會大眾可以了解清楚他的職責避免未來就是引發很多的一個認知上的一個錯誤\n\n19\n00:07:54,661 --> 00:08:20,295\n報告委員因為外聘督導這個在社工界長期已經是這樣運作所以在名稱上或者是在他的這個權責上面我們會再去把他的這個角色跟責任邊界做一個釐清至於說名稱上面怎麼樣去處理請委員容我們再去做一個規劃好那我們研究看看謝謝主持人妳要不要補充一句我在這邊肯定所有全國的社工\n\n20\n00:08:21,158 --> 00:08:42,837\n你們都很辛苦那這種事情不然要發生那已經發生了那我們就要好好的處理往後不要再有這種悲劇那大家的那個收入也不是很高我看社工的待遇也不是很好大家都很辛苦所以在這邊再次跟大家肯定那也希望處長回去看他有什麼時間再關他沒有啦\n\n21\n00:08:45,780 --> 00:08:53,204\n好,大夫就更好,偏遠地區什麼昏殯醫院,那些都要給人家加薪啦,對不對,再來就是這個名稱,我今天開宗明義講,我都講督導\n\n22\n00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:24,096\n我都搞不清楚這是什麼內部督導外部督導今天聽到現在才搞清楚所以這個名稱這個頭銜可能要改這樣是不妥當的所以要改的東西要進步的東西很多我們就往正向正能量看今天排這個案子也不是說要去K誰都沒有我們是希望精進然後也沒有我都說對勢不對人所以大家\n\n23\n00:09:25,037 --> 00:09:28,323\n大家敞開心胸講謝謝賴委員謝謝主席謝謝蘇醫師謝謝委員謝謝各位\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n889\t4431\t謝謝主席我們這個血汗委員會等了好幾個小時才輪到花園那我請我們衛福部次長還有社家署副署長\n21401\t43837\t市長,我想今天我們大家共同討論凱凱這一個案子那我們也充分的討論,就稱呼主席講的,他說叫我前菜公公的好,我說他伯,那我想就是說跟市長跟副署長就是做一個探討,所謂社工的一個督導跟外聘的督導,他們前者上\n45411\t74421\t權責上其實基本上有很多的一個分工那性質上也有很大的一個差異那如果我們說社工督導是機構內的主管那外聘的督導就是機構外的一個顧問是不是這樣子呢委員這張表其實做得很清楚他我想在現實的運作狀況下大家就是像委員這樣子的分類那個等一下時間暫停主席我的電腦沒有那個螢幕\n96107\t122066\t不然這樣我不要問了啦 主席 借你的口就是講說凱凱案跟這個林業情沒有關係啊 給你說就好了主席我要講結論啦 大家委員都肥大你給他說就好你這個螢幕沒有出來啊 你影響到我的質詢的品質啊所以我的重點就是要講這些剛剛後面螢幕剛剛是有\n139036\t140757\t那我委屈一點,那你要不要幫我講,你幫我講我就不要問了\n157030\t182248\t好謝謝主席我想說次長這個很明顯就是說用這個圖表裡頭我們去看到了就是說社工督導跟外聘的一個督導其實在權職上在身份上在功能上其實是完全不同的最重要就是說社工督導其實他是管理就是我們機構內的主管所以他是可以介入個案的而且他事實上有他機構內部對他的指揮監督職責\n186422\t212101\t機構內部對他的社工督導因為他是聘他作為社工督導所以他有指揮監督的責任是啊那外聘督導是不是就誠如就是說我們是辦一個那個講座然後這是我們邀請就是外來的一個顧問還是一個講師這樣子的一個性質我想機構請外聘督導事實上就是讓這些經驗豐富或者是具有更多不同職能專業能力的這些專家來\n213762\t231989\t對於我們機構內部的督導或者是工作人員提升他的職能那提供他們更多的資源跟了解是 次長我請教你一下到底外聘督導他有沒有機會就是實際參與個案的一個環伺還是說他可以直接管理指揮我們機構內的人員嗎\n235211\t256799\t實際上是說原來機構內部的社工督導或者是機構內他們的工作人員的訪視員或社工他事實上是在找外聘督導的過程中說我們需要請外聘督導來協助我們了解或給我們更多資訊說他也可以針對整個通案來做教育上面的協助\n257259\t282950\t也可以針對特定個案說這個個案我處理得很困難或者說我有一些知識上的資訊我想市長你把這個外聘的一個督導跟我們的社工督導講的這個權責還有就是他的工作分配講得很清楚啦倒是本期有注意到國民黨之前有一位議員他在之前講的他說林彥琴就是受聘來監督整個居托房市計畫的一個督導\n285071\t300401\t指控這個林委員隱匿身份假裝正義的第三方在這裡我想是不是就是說國民黨的議員其實對於就是整個志工的一個系統不熟悉所以他引用的一個錯誤\n301562\t324166\t其實這完全就是說不是只有林業勤受到這樣的一個傷害在很多第一線的這個外聘的那個督導也受到了很多的一個傷害這個是混淆社社工就是這整體的社會對社工的一個認知當然我們也希望我們也希望藉由這樣的一個事件因為凱凱這是一個悲劇那這個悲劇在這個裡頭我們希望就是說\n328707\t345900\t可以在這個整個事件裡頭我們得到了一些我們應該要得到的這個正確的一個那個觀念還有就是那個進捐兒童基金會這個是一個華人的一個基金會是不是\n347684\t362809\t這個是進捐是法人基金會嗎對柴山法人我要請問一下這一位是我們的什麼官員社交署副署長你是我們科長科長科長我覺得你在立法院備詢你不應該是這樣的一個態度\n366360\t379204\t當然我們知道就是說你們非常累了因為這個會議從早上9點到這個時候不要是這個樣子謝謝所以我想是這個是學校的一個好簡單的來講我想大家都把這個就是這兩個這兩個工作的前者講得非常清楚了我也不佔用大家太多的時間葉燕姿再來是葉燕姿嗎\n395538\t401361\t你兩個不衝突啦不衝突啦好在這裡還是要強調啦就是說還給社會人員一個清白我們不要讓社會人員變成就是我們政治的一個提款機那這裡我也特別就是要跟這個\n424753\t444122\t就我們的市長做一個建議就是說你們在督導這個地方政府的時候要明確去釐清外聘的一個督導的角色跟責任的一個邊界避免外界去誤會這個他的角色跟混淆第二個就是外聘的督導其實是很容易引發誤解的\n445703\t473120\t所以說這個名稱需不需要修正這個我們把它當成是一個議題那也希望就是說大家來探討看看那希望就是兩個月內給我一個書面的一個資料那還有就是說我們的外聘專家改成外聘的顧問這個是不是更貼近我們的角色呢讓社會大眾可以了解清楚他的職責避免未來就是引發很多的一個認知上的一個錯誤\n474661\t500295\t報告委員 因為外聘督導這個在社工界長期已經是這樣運作所以在名稱上或者是在他的這個權責上面我們會再去把他的這個角色跟責任邊界做一個釐清至於說名稱上面怎麼樣去處理請委員容我們再去做一個規劃好 那我們研究看看謝謝主持人 妳要不要補充一句我在這邊肯定所有全國的社工\n501158\t522837\t你們都很辛苦那這種事情不然要發生那已經發生了那我們就要好好的處理往後不要再有這種悲劇那大家的那個收入也不是很高我看社工的待遇也不是很好大家都很辛苦所以在這邊再次跟大家肯定那也希望處長回去看他有什麼時間再關他沒有啦\n525780\t533204\t好,大夫就更好,偏遠地區什麼昏殯醫院,那些都要給人家加薪啦,對不對,再來就是這個名稱,我今天開宗明義講,我都講督導\n538240\t564096\t我都搞不清楚這是什麼內部督導外部督導今天聽到現在才搞清楚所以這個名稱這個頭銜可能要改這樣是不妥當的所以要改的東西要進步的東西很多我們就往正向正能量看今天排這個案子也不是說要去K誰都沒有我們是希望精進然後也沒有我都說對勢不對人所以大家\n565037\t568323\t大家敞開心胸講謝謝賴委員謝謝主席謝謝蘇醫師謝謝委員謝謝各位\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們這個血汗委員會等了好幾個小時才輪到花園那我請我們衛福部次長還有社家署副署長\n市長,我想今天我們大家共同討論凱凱這一個案子那我們也充分的討論,就稱呼主席講的,他說叫我前菜公公的好,我說他伯,那我想就是說跟市長跟副署長就是做一個探討,所謂社工的一個督導跟外聘的督導,他們前者上\n權責上其實基本上有很多的一個分工那性質上也有很大的一個差異那如果我們說社工督導是機構內的主管那外聘的督導就是機構外的一個顧問是不是這樣子呢委員這張表其實做得很清楚他我想在現實的運作狀況下大家就是像委員這樣子的分類那個等一下時間暫停主席我的電腦沒有那個螢幕\n不然這樣我不要問了啦 主席 借你的口就是講說凱凱案跟這個林業情沒有關係啊 給你說就好了主席我要講結論啦 大家委員都肥大你給他說就好你這個螢幕沒有出來啊 你影響到我的質詢的品質啊所以我的重點就是要講這些剛剛後面螢幕剛剛是有\n那我委屈一點,那你要不要幫我講,你幫我講我就不要問了\n好謝謝主席我想說次長這個很明顯就是說用這個圖表裡頭我們去看到了就是說社工督導跟外聘的一個督導其實在權職上在身份上在功能上其實是完全不同的最重要就是說社工督導其實他是管理就是我們機構內的主管所以他是可以介入個案的而且他事實上有他機構內部對他的指揮監督職責\n機構內部對他的社工督導因為他是聘他作為社工督導所以他有指揮監督的責任是啊那外聘督導是不是就誠如就是說我們是辦一個那個講座然後這是我們邀請就是外來的一個顧問還是一個講師這樣子的一個性質我想機構請外聘督導事實上就是讓這些經驗豐富或者是具有更多不同職能專業能力的這些專家來\n對於我們機構內部的督導或者是工作人員提升他的職能那提供他們更多的資源跟了解是 次長我請教你一下到底外聘督導他有沒有機會就是實際參與個案的一個環伺還是說他可以直接管理指揮我們機構內的人員嗎\n實際上是說原來機構內部的社工督導或者是機構內他們的工作人員的訪視員或社工他事實上是在找外聘督導的過程中說我們需要請外聘督導來協助我們了解或給我們更多資訊說他也可以針對整個通案來做教育上面的協助\n也可以針對特定個案說這個個案我處理得很困難或者說我有一些知識上的資訊我想市長你把這個外聘的一個督導跟我們的社工督導講的這個權責還有就是他的工作分配講得很清楚啦倒是本期有注意到國民黨之前有一位議員他在之前講的他說林彥琴就是受聘來監督整個居托房市計畫的一個督導\n指控這個林委員隱匿身份假裝正義的第三方在這裡我想是不是就是說國民黨的議員其實對於就是整個志工的一個系統不熟悉所以他引用的一個錯誤\n其實這完全就是說不是只有林業勤受到這樣的一個傷害在很多第一線的這個外聘的那個督導也受到了很多的一個傷害這個是混淆社社工就是這整體的社會對社工的一個認知當然我們也希望我們也希望藉由這樣的一個事件因為凱凱這是一個悲劇那這個悲劇在這個裡頭我們希望就是說\n可以在這個整個事件裡頭我們得到了一些我們應該要得到的這個正確的一個那個觀念還有就是那個進捐兒童基金會這個是一個華人的一個基金會是不是\n這個是進捐是法人基金會嗎對柴山法人我要請問一下這一位是我們的什麼官員社交署副署長你是我們科長科長科長我覺得你在立法院備詢你不應該是這樣的一個態度\n當然我們知道就是說你們非常累了因為這個會議從早上9點到這個時候不要是這個樣子謝謝所以我想是這個是學校的一個好簡單的來講我想大家都把這個就是這兩個這兩個工作的前者講得非常清楚了我也不佔用大家太多的時間葉燕姿再來是葉燕姿嗎\n你兩個不衝突啦不衝突啦好在這裡還是要強調啦就是說還給社會人員一個清白我們不要讓社會人員變成就是我們政治的一個提款機那這裡我也特別就是要跟這個\n就我們的市長做一個建議就是說你們在督導這個地方政府的時候要明確去釐清外聘的一個督導的角色跟責任的一個邊界避免外界去誤會這個他的角色跟混淆第二個就是外聘的督導其實是很容易引發誤解的\n所以說這個名稱需不需要修正這個我們把它當成是一個議題那也希望就是說大家來探討看看那希望就是兩個月內給我一個書面的一個資料那還有就是說我們的外聘專家改成外聘的顧問這個是不是更貼近我們的角色呢讓社會大眾可以了解清楚他的職責避免未來就是引發很多的一個認知上的一個錯誤\n報告委員 因為外聘督導這個在社工界長期已經是這樣運作所以在名稱上或者是在他的這個權責上面我們會再去把他的這個角色跟責任邊界做一個釐清至於說名稱上面怎麼樣去處理請委員容我們再去做一個規劃好 那我們研究看看謝謝主持人 妳要不要補充一句我在這邊肯定所有全國的社工\n你們都很辛苦那這種事情不然要發生那已經發生了那我們就要好好的處理往後不要再有這種悲劇那大家的那個收入也不是很高我看社工的待遇也不是很好大家都很辛苦所以在這邊再次跟大家肯定那也希望處長回去看他有什麼時間再關他沒有啦\n好,大夫就更好,偏遠地區什麼昏殯醫院,那些都要給人家加薪啦,對不對,再來就是這個名稱,我今天開宗明義講,我都講督導\n我都搞不清楚這是什麼內部督導外部督導今天聽到現在才搞清楚所以這個名稱這個頭銜可能要改這樣是不妥當的所以要改的東西要進步的東西很多我們就往正向正能量看今天排這個案子也不是說要去K誰都沒有我們是希望精進然後也沒有我都說對勢不對人所以大家\n大家敞開心胸講謝謝賴委員謝謝主席謝謝蘇醫師謝謝委員謝謝各位\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.889 --> 00:04.431\n謝謝主席我們這個血汗委員會等了好幾個小時才輪到花園那我請我們衛福部次長還有社家署副署長\n\n00:21.401 --> 00:43.837\n市長,我想今天我們大家共同討論凱凱這一個案子那我們也充分的討論,就稱呼主席講的,他說叫我前菜公公的好,我說他伯,那我想就是說跟市長跟副署長就是做一個探討,所謂社工的一個督導跟外聘的督導,他們前者上\n\n00:45.411 --> 01:14.421\n權責上其實基本上有很多的一個分工那性質上也有很大的一個差異那如果我們說社工督導是機構內的主管那外聘的督導就是機構外的一個顧問是不是這樣子呢委員這張表其實做得很清楚他我想在現實的運作狀況下大家就是像委員這樣子的分類那個等一下時間暫停主席我的電腦沒有那個螢幕\n\n01:36.107 --> 02:02.066\n不然這樣我不要問了啦主席借你的口就是講說凱凱案跟這個林業情沒有關係啊給你說就好了主席我要講結論啦大家委員都肥大你給他說就好你這個螢幕沒有出來啊你影響到我的質詢的品質啊所以我的重點就是要講這些剛剛後面螢幕剛剛是有\n\n02:19.036 --> 02:20.757\n那我委屈一點,那你要不要幫我講,你幫我講我就不要問了\n\n02:37.030 --> 03:02.248\n好謝謝主席我想說次長這個很明顯就是說用這個圖表裡頭我們去看到了就是說社工督導跟外聘的一個督導其實在權職上在身份上在功能上其實是完全不同的最重要就是說社工督導其實他是管理就是我們機構內的主管所以他是可以介入個案的而且他事實上有他機構內部對他的指揮監督職責\n\n03:06.422 --> 03:32.101\n機構內部對他的社工督導因為他是聘他作為社工督導所以他有指揮監督的責任是啊那外聘督導是不是就誠如就是說我們是辦一個那個講座然後這是我們邀請就是外來的一個顧問還是一個講師這樣子的一個性質我想機構請外聘督導事實上就是讓這些經驗豐富或者是具有更多不同職能專業能力的這些專家來\n\n03:33.762 --> 03:51.989\n對於我們機構內部的督導或者是工作人員提升他的職能那提供他們更多的資源跟了解是次長我請教你一下到底外聘督導他有沒有機會就是實際參與個案的一個環伺還是說他可以直接管理指揮我們機構內的人員嗎\n\n03:55.211 --> 04:16.799\n實際上是說原來機構內部的社工督導或者是機構內他們的工作人員的訪視員或社工他事實上是在找外聘督導的過程中說我們需要請外聘督導來協助我們了解或給我們更多資訊說他也可以針對整個通案來做教育上面的協助\n\n04:17.259 --> 04:42.950\n也可以針對特定個案說這個個案我處理得很困難或者說我有一些知識上的資訊我想市長你把這個外聘的一個督導跟我們的社工督導講的這個權責還有就是他的工作分配講得很清楚啦倒是本期有注意到國民黨之前有一位議員他在之前講的他說林彥琴就是受聘來監督整個居托房市計畫的一個督導\n\n04:45.071 --> 05:00.401\n指控這個林委員隱匿身份假裝正義的第三方在這裡我想是不是就是說國民黨的議員其實對於就是整個志工的一個系統不熟悉所以他引用的一個錯誤\n\n05:01.562 --> 05:24.166\n其實這完全就是說不是只有林業勤受到這樣的一個傷害在很多第一線的這個外聘的那個督導也受到了很多的一個傷害這個是混淆社社工就是這整體的社會對社工的一個認知當然我們也希望我們也希望藉由這樣的一個事件因為凱凱這是一個悲劇那這個悲劇在這個裡頭我們希望就是說\n\n05:28.707 --> 05:45.900\n可以在這個整個事件裡頭我們得到了一些我們應該要得到的這個正確的一個那個觀念還有就是那個進捐兒童基金會這個是一個華人的一個基金會是不是\n\n05:47.684 --> 06:02.809\n這個是進捐是法人基金會嗎對柴山法人我要請問一下這一位是我們的什麼官員社交署副署長你是我們科長科長科長我覺得你在立法院備詢你不應該是這樣的一個態度\n\n06:06.360 --> 06:19.204\n當然我們知道就是說你們非常累了因為這個會議從早上9點到這個時候不要是這個樣子謝謝所以我想是這個是學校的一個好簡單的來講我想大家都把這個就是這兩個這兩個工作的前者講得非常清楚了我也不佔用大家太多的時間葉燕姿再來是葉燕姿嗎\n\n06:35.538 --> 06:41.361\n你兩個不衝突啦不衝突啦好在這裡還是要強調啦就是說還給社會人員一個清白我們不要讓社會人員變成就是我們政治的一個提款機那這裡我也特別就是要跟這個\n\n07:04.753 --> 07:24.122\n就我們的市長做一個建議就是說你們在督導這個地方政府的時候要明確去釐清外聘的一個督導的角色跟責任的一個邊界避免外界去誤會這個他的角色跟混淆第二個就是外聘的督導其實是很容易引發誤解的\n\n07:25.703 --> 07:53.120\n所以說這個名稱需不需要修正這個我們把它當成是一個議題那也希望就是說大家來探討看看那希望就是兩個月內給我一個書面的一個資料那還有就是說我們的外聘專家改成外聘的顧問這個是不是更貼近我們的角色呢讓社會大眾可以了解清楚他的職責避免未來就是引發很多的一個認知上的一個錯誤\n\n07:54.661 --> 08:20.295\n報告委員因為外聘督導這個在社工界長期已經是這樣運作所以在名稱上或者是在他的這個權責上面我們會再去把他的這個角色跟責任邊界做一個釐清至於說名稱上面怎麼樣去處理請委員容我們再去做一個規劃好那我們研究看看謝謝主持人妳要不要補充一句我在這邊肯定所有全國的社工\n\n08:21.158 --> 08:42.837\n你們都很辛苦那這種事情不然要發生那已經發生了那我們就要好好的處理往後不要再有這種悲劇那大家的那個收入也不是很高我看社工的待遇也不是很好大家都很辛苦所以在這邊再次跟大家肯定那也希望處長回去看他有什麼時間再關他沒有啦\n\n08:45.780 --> 08:53.204\n好,大夫就更好,偏遠地區什麼昏殯醫院,那些都要給人家加薪啦,對不對,再來就是這個名稱,我今天開宗明義講,我都講督導\n\n08:58.240 --> 09:24.096\n我都搞不清楚這是什麼內部督導外部督導今天聽到現在才搞清楚所以這個名稱這個頭銜可能要改這樣是不妥當的所以要改的東西要進步的東西很多我們就往正向正能量看今天排這個案子也不是說要去K誰都沒有我們是希望精進然後也沒有我都說對勢不對人所以大家\n\n09:25.037 --> 09:28.323\n大家敞開心胸講謝謝賴委員謝謝主席謝謝蘇醫師謝謝委員謝謝各位\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.889,"end":4.431,"text":"謝謝主席我們這個血汗委員會等了好幾個小時才輪到花園那我請我們衛福部次長還有社家署副署長"},{"start":21.401,"end":43.837,"text":"市長,我想今天我們大家共同討論凱凱這一個案子那我們也充分的討論,就稱呼主席講的,他說叫我前菜公公的好,我說他伯,那我想就是說跟市長跟副署長就是做一個探討,所謂社工的一個督導跟外聘的督導,他們前者上"},{"start":45.411,"end":74.421,"text":"權責上其實基本上有很多的一個分工那性質上也有很大的一個差異那如果我們說社工督導是機構內的主管那外聘的督導就是機構外的一個顧問是不是這樣子呢委員這張表其實做得很清楚他我想在現實的運作狀況下大家就是像委員這樣子的分類那個等一下時間暫停主席我的電腦沒有那個螢幕"},{"start":96.107,"end":122.066,"text":"不然這樣我不要問了啦 主席 借你的口就是講說凱凱案跟這個林業情沒有關係啊 給你說就好了主席我要講結論啦 大家委員都肥大你給他說就好你這個螢幕沒有出來啊 你影響到我的質詢的品質啊所以我的重點就是要講這些剛剛後面螢幕剛剛是有"},{"start":139.036,"end":140.757,"text":"那我委屈一點,那你要不要幫我講,你幫我講我就不要問了"},{"start":157.03,"end":182.248,"text":"好謝謝主席我想說次長這個很明顯就是說用這個圖表裡頭我們去看到了就是說社工督導跟外聘的一個督導其實在權職上在身份上在功能上其實是完全不同的最重要就是說社工督導其實他是管理就是我們機構內的主管所以他是可以介入個案的而且他事實上有他機構內部對他的指揮監督職責"},{"start":186.422,"end":212.101,"text":"機構內部對他的社工督導因為他是聘他作為社工督導所以他有指揮監督的責任是啊那外聘督導是不是就誠如就是說我們是辦一個那個講座然後這是我們邀請就是外來的一個顧問還是一個講師這樣子的一個性質我想機構請外聘督導事實上就是讓這些經驗豐富或者是具有更多不同職能專業能力的這些專家來"},{"start":213.762,"end":231.989,"text":"對於我們機構內部的督導或者是工作人員提升他的職能那提供他們更多的資源跟了解是 次長我請教你一下到底外聘督導他有沒有機會就是實際參與個案的一個環伺還是說他可以直接管理指揮我們機構內的人員嗎"},{"start":235.211,"end":256.799,"text":"實際上是說原來機構內部的社工督導或者是機構內他們的工作人員的訪視員或社工他事實上是在找外聘督導的過程中說我們需要請外聘督導來協助我們了解或給我們更多資訊說他也可以針對整個通案來做教育上面的協助"},{"start":257.259,"end":282.95,"text":"也可以針對特定個案說這個個案我處理得很困難或者說我有一些知識上的資訊我想市長你把這個外聘的一個督導跟我們的社工督導講的這個權責還有就是他的工作分配講得很清楚啦倒是本期有注意到國民黨之前有一位議員他在之前講的他說林彥琴就是受聘來監督整個居托房市計畫的一個督導"},{"start":285.071,"end":300.401,"text":"指控這個林委員隱匿身份假裝正義的第三方在這裡我想是不是就是說國民黨的議員其實對於就是整個志工的一個系統不熟悉所以他引用的一個錯誤"},{"start":301.562,"end":324.166,"text":"其實這完全就是說不是只有林業勤受到這樣的一個傷害在很多第一線的這個外聘的那個督導也受到了很多的一個傷害這個是混淆社社工就是這整體的社會對社工的一個認知當然我們也希望我們也希望藉由這樣的一個事件因為凱凱這是一個悲劇那這個悲劇在這個裡頭我們希望就是說"},{"start":328.707,"end":345.9,"text":"可以在這個整個事件裡頭我們得到了一些我們應該要得到的這個正確的一個那個觀念還有就是那個進捐兒童基金會這個是一個華人的一個基金會是不是"},{"start":347.684,"end":362.809,"text":"這個是進捐是法人基金會嗎對柴山法人我要請問一下這一位是我們的什麼官員社交署副署長你是我們科長科長科長我覺得你在立法院備詢你不應該是這樣的一個態度"},{"start":366.36,"end":379.204,"text":"當然我們知道就是說你們非常累了因為這個會議從早上9點到這個時候不要是這個樣子謝謝所以我想是這個是學校的一個好簡單的來講我想大家都把這個就是這兩個這兩個工作的前者講得非常清楚了我也不佔用大家太多的時間葉燕姿再來是葉燕姿嗎"},{"start":395.538,"end":401.361,"text":"你兩個不衝突啦不衝突啦好在這裡還是要強調啦就是說還給社會人員一個清白我們不要讓社會人員變成就是我們政治的一個提款機那這裡我也特別就是要跟這個"},{"start":424.753,"end":444.122,"text":"就我們的市長做一個建議就是說你們在督導這個地方政府的時候要明確去釐清外聘的一個督導的角色跟責任的一個邊界避免外界去誤會這個他的角色跟混淆第二個就是外聘的督導其實是很容易引發誤解的"},{"start":445.703,"end":473.12,"text":"所以說這個名稱需不需要修正這個我們把它當成是一個議題那也希望就是說大家來探討看看那希望就是兩個月內給我一個書面的一個資料那還有就是說我們的外聘專家改成外聘的顧問這個是不是更貼近我們的角色呢讓社會大眾可以了解清楚他的職責避免未來就是引發很多的一個認知上的一個錯誤"},{"start":474.661,"end":500.295,"text":"報告委員 因為外聘督導這個在社工界長期已經是這樣運作所以在名稱上或者是在他的這個權責上面我們會再去把他的這個角色跟責任邊界做一個釐清至於說名稱上面怎麼樣去處理請委員容我們再去做一個規劃好 那我們研究看看謝謝主持人 妳要不要補充一句我在這邊肯定所有全國的社工"},{"start":501.158,"end":522.837,"text":"你們都很辛苦那這種事情不然要發生那已經發生了那我們就要好好的處理往後不要再有這種悲劇那大家的那個收入也不是很高我看社工的待遇也不是很好大家都很辛苦所以在這邊再次跟大家肯定那也希望處長回去看他有什麼時間再關他沒有啦"},{"start":525.78,"end":533.204,"text":"好,大夫就更好,偏遠地區什麼昏殯醫院,那些都要給人家加薪啦,對不對,再來就是這個名稱,我今天開宗明義講,我都講督導"},{"start":538.24,"end":564.096,"text":"我都搞不清楚這是什麼內部督導外部督導今天聽到現在才搞清楚所以這個名稱這個頭銜可能要改這樣是不妥當的所以要改的東西要進步的東西很多我們就往正向正能量看今天排這個案子也不是說要去K誰都沒有我們是希望精進然後也沒有我都說對勢不對人所以大家"},{"start":565.037,"end":568.323,"text":"大家敞開心胸講謝謝賴委員謝謝主席謝謝蘇醫師謝謝委員謝謝各位"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1391,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（13時46分）謝謝主席，我們這個血汗委員會，等了好幾個小時才輪到發言。","我請衛福部次長，還有社家署副署長。"],["林次長靜儀：委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：次長，我想今天我們大家共同討論剴剴這個案子，我們也充分的討論，就誠如主席講的，他叫我隨便講講。"],["主席：我說講短一點。"],["賴委員惠員：好，我講短一點。我想跟次長、跟副署長做一個探討，所謂社工督導跟外聘督導，他們在權責方面其實有很多分工，性質上也有很大的差異，如果我們說社工督導是機構內的主管，那外聘督導就是機構外的顧問，是不是這樣子呢？"],["林次長靜儀：委員這張表其實做得很清楚，我想在現實的運作狀況下，大概就是像委員這樣子的分類。"],["賴委員惠員：等一下，時間暫停。主席，我的電腦螢幕沒有畫面。不然我不要問了，主席，借你的口，就是說剴剴案跟林月琴沒有關係，讓你說就好了！"],["主席：每個委員都一樣大，你自己說就好了。"],["賴委員惠員：可是螢幕畫面沒有出來，影響到我質詢的品質啊！而我的重點就是要講這些。"],["林次長靜儀：剛剛後面的大螢幕是有畫面。"],["賴委員惠員：主席，那我委屈一點，你要不要幫我講？你幫我講，我就不要問了。"],["主席：你講就好。"],["賴委員惠員：謝謝主席。","次長，這個很明顯，在這個圖表裡我們看到了社工督導跟外聘督導在權責上、在身分上、在功能上其實是完全不同的，最重要的是社工督導是機構內的主管，所以他是可以介入個案的。"],["林次長靜儀：而且事實上機構內部對他有指揮監督之責。"],["賴委員惠員：啊？"],["林次長靜儀：機構內部對他的社工督導，因為是聘他做為社工督導，所以他有指揮監督的責任。"],["賴委員惠員：是啊！外聘督導是不是就像我們辦一個講座，然後我們邀請一個外來的顧問或是一個講師這樣子的性質？"],["林次長靜儀：我想機構請外聘督導，事實上就是讓經驗豐富，或者是具有更多不同知能、專業能力的這些專家對於機構內部的督導或者是工作人員，提升他的知能，提供他們更多的資源跟了解。"],["賴委員惠員：次長，我請教你一下，到底外聘督導有沒有機會實際參與個案的訪視？還是他可以直接管理指揮機構內的人員嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員這樣詢問，事實上是原來機構內部的社工督導，或者是機構內的工作人員、訪視員或社工是在找外聘督導的過程中，說我們需要請外聘督導來協助我們了解，或給我們更多資訊，他也可以針對整個通案做教育上面的協助。"],["賴委員惠員：是，沒錯。"],["林次長靜儀：也可以針對特定個案，如果這個個案處理得很很困難，或者說有一些知識上的資訊需要幫忙。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝。次長，你把外聘督導跟社工督導的權責，還有工作分配講得很清楚。但是本席有注意到國民黨有一位議員之前說林月琴就是受聘來監督整個居托訪視計畫的督導，指控林委員隱匿身分，假裝正義的第三方，我想是不是國民黨的議員對於整個社工系統不熟悉，所以他引用錯誤？其實不是只有林月琴受到這樣的傷害，很多在第一線的外聘督導也受到很多傷害，這個是混淆整體社會對社工的認知。當然我們也希望藉由這樣一個事件，因為剴剴是一個悲劇，在這個悲劇當中，我們希望可以從這整個事件裡得到一些應該要得到的正確觀念。","另外，靖娟兒童基金會是一個法人基金會，是不是？"],["林次長靜儀：靖娟是財團法人。"],["賴委員惠員：請問這一位是什麼官員？"],["林次長靜儀：是社家署副署長"],["賴委員惠員：另外那位是？"],["張副署長美美：我們的科長。"],["賴委員惠員：科長，我覺得你在立法院備詢不應該是這樣一個態度，當然我們知道你們非常累了，因為這個會議從早上9點到這個時候，但不要這個樣子，謝謝。","好，簡單來講，我想大家都把這兩個工作權責講得非常清楚了，我也不占用大家太多的時間。","再來是葉元之發言嗎？葉元之要繼續講？這樣我就要繼續講了，不然我如果少講了，葉元之就多說了。"],["主席：你們兩個不衝突啦！"],["賴委員惠員：不衝突啦！在這裡還是要強調，就是還給社福人員一個清白，我們不要讓社福人員變成政治的提款機，在這裡我也特別跟次長提出建議：你們在督導地方政府的時候要明確去釐清外聘督導的角色跟責任的邊界，避免外界誤會跟混淆了他的角色。第二個就是外聘督導很容易引發誤解，所以這個名稱需不需要修正？我們把它當成是一個議題，也希望大家來探討看看，希望在兩個月內給我一個書面資料。"],["林次長靜儀：好。"],["賴委員惠員：還有，外聘專家改成外聘顧問是不是更貼近我們的角色呢？讓社會大眾可以了解清楚他的職責，避免未來引發很多認知上的錯誤。"],["林次長靜儀：報告委員，因為外聘督導在社工界已經是長期這樣運作了，所以在名稱上或者在權責上，我們會再去把他的角色跟責任邊界做一個釐清，至於名稱上面怎麼樣去處理，請委員容我們再做一些規劃。"],["賴委員惠員：好，那我們研究看看。謝謝主席。"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：你要我補充，我就幫你補充幾句。"],["賴委員惠員：好。"],["主席：我在這邊肯定所有全國的社工，你們都很辛苦，這種事情沒有人願意發生，已經發生了，我們就要好好處理，往後不要再有這種悲劇。"],["賴委員惠員：對。"],["主席：大家的收入也不是很高，我看社工的待遇也不是很好，大家都很辛苦，所以在這邊再次跟大家肯定，也希望次長回去看能不能讓社工的薪水更高一點，好不好？"],["林次長靜儀：好。"],["主席：讓他們的待遇更好一點，偏遠地區、豐濱醫院那些都要給人家加薪啦！這樣對嗎？"],["賴委員惠員：好，附議。"],["主席：再來就是這個名稱，我今天開宗明義就講，督導──我都搞不清楚什麼內部督導、外部督導，今天聽到現在才搞清楚。"],["賴委員惠員：是啊。"],["主席：所以這個名稱、這個頭銜可能要改，這樣是不妥當的，所以要改的東西、要進步的東西很多，我們就往正向、正能量看，今天排這個案子也不是說要「K」誰，都沒有！我們就是希望精進，我都說對事不對人，所以大家就敞開心胸講。謝謝賴委員，謝謝次長。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：我替你講了喔！"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員，謝謝召委。"],["主席：繼續請葉元之質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":138,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-12","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","徐巧芯","盧縣一","黃國昌","劉建國","涂權吉","林淑芬","陳菁徽","陳培瑜","郭昱晴","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","張啓楷","范雲","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","楊曜","賴惠員","葉元之","王育敏","陳冠廷","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","黃捷"],"page_start":43,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部、教育部就「性騷擾防治及外聘督導制度精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145201_00002"}}}