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95.026, \"end\": 95.166, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 95.166, \"end\": 95.186, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"邏\"}, {\"word\": \"輯\"}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 95.186, \"end\": 95.206, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"跳\", \"start\": 95.206, \"end\": 95.427, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"躍\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 95.427, \"end\": 95.447, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 105.216, \"end\": 114.06, \"text\": \"我們伙食費沒有刪 沒有凍結就算是今天沒有廚師去煮飯給阿兵哥吃還是可以對外買水餃 買便當 買麥當勞吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 105.216, \"end\": 105.496, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"伙\", \"start\": 105.496, \"end\": 105.796, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"食\", \"start\": 105.796, \"end\": 106.236, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 106.236, \"end\": 106.397, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 106.397, \"end\": 106.997, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"刪\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 106.997, \"end\": 107.177, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 107.177, \"end\": 108.477, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 108.477, \"end\": 108.778, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 108.778, \"end\": 108.958, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 108.958, \"end\": 109.118, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 109.118, \"end\": 109.318, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 109.318, \"end\": 109.538, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 109.538, \"end\": 109.698, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 109.698, \"end\": 110.698, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"廚\"}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 110.698, \"end\": 111.419, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"煮\", \"start\": 111.419, \"end\": 112.079, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"飯\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"阿\", \"start\": 112.079, \"end\": 112.279, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"兵\", \"start\": 112.279, \"end\": 112.419, \"score\": 0.577}, {\"word\": \"哥\", \"start\": 112.419, \"end\": 112.679, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"吃\", \"start\": 112.679, \"end\": 113.38, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 113.38, \"end\": 113.54, \"score\": 0.637}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 113.54, \"end\": 113.72, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 113.72, \"end\": 113.84, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 113.84, \"end\": 113.86, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"買\"}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 113.86, \"end\": 114.02, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"餃\"}, {\"word\": \"買\"}, {\"word\": \"便\", \"start\": 114.02, \"end\": 114.04, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"買\"}, {\"word\": \"麥\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 114.04, \"end\": 114.06, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 119.759, \"end\": 134.974, \"text\": \"不會讓阿兵哥餓到肚子嘛對不對我們真的很擔心啦就是第一個包含水電費沒了然後他們的三餐全部其實我真的很不會煮飯我最會煮的就是維大利炸醬麵而已\", 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{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 128.247, \"end\": 128.368, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 128.368, \"end\": 128.808, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 128.808, \"end\": 129.188, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 129.188, \"end\": 129.389, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 129.389, \"end\": 129.649, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"餐\", \"start\": 129.649, \"end\": 130.169, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 130.169, \"end\": 130.37, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 130.37, \"end\": 131.01, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 131.01, \"end\": 131.751, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 131.751, \"end\": 131.911, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 131.911, \"end\": 132.051, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 132.051, \"end\": 132.212, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 132.212, \"end\": 132.432, \"score\": 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134.954, \"score\": 0.121}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 134.954, \"end\": 134.974, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 136.576, \"end\": 156.934, \"text\": \"那廚師也好 他們要選材 洗材 然後還要清潔而且因為總統府跟其他的單位比較不一樣他負責國家中樞 這些元首 甚至像各個重要的官員是 何富密 您說的我都了解我也絕對是認為說 我們辛苦的憲兵弟兄們不可以讓他們餓肚子 不可以讓他們吃不好這完全都同意\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 136.576, \"end\": 137.777, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"廚\"}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 137.777, \"end\": 137.977, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 137.977, \"end\": 138.318, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 138.318, \"end\": 138.538, \"score\": 0.543}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 138.538, \"end\": 139.118, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"材\", \"start\": 139.118, \"end\": 139.979, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"洗\", \"start\": 139.979, \"end\": 140.279, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"材\", \"start\": 140.279, \"end\": 141.1, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 141.1, 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\"至\", \"start\": 150.008, \"end\": 150.188, \"score\": 0.641}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 150.188, \"end\": 150.848, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 150.848, \"end\": 151.269, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 151.269, \"end\": 151.469, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 151.469, \"end\": 151.629, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 151.629, \"end\": 151.789, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 151.789, \"end\": 152.109, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 152.109, \"end\": 152.33, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 152.33, \"end\": 152.49, \"score\": 0.619}, {\"word\": \"富\", \"start\": 152.49, \"end\": 152.65, \"score\": 0.55}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 152.65, \"end\": 153.07, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 153.07, \"end\": 153.571, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 153.571, \"end\": 153.731, 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155.512, \"end\": 155.532, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"弟\", \"start\": 155.532, \"end\": 155.673, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"兄\", \"start\": 155.673, \"end\": 155.813, \"score\": 0.593}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 155.813, \"end\": 155.833, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 155.833, \"end\": 155.853, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 155.853, \"end\": 156.033, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 156.033, \"end\": 156.113, \"score\": 0.639}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"餓\"}, {\"word\": \"肚\", \"start\": 156.113, \"end\": 156.213, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 156.213, \"end\": 156.313, \"score\": 0.457}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 156.313, \"end\": 156.333, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 156.333, \"end\": 156.453, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 156.453, \"end\": 156.513, \"score\": 0.152}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 156.513, \"end\": 156.653, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"吃\", \"start\": 156.653, \"end\": 156.673, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 156.673, \"end\": 156.773, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 156.773, \"end\": 156.793, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 156.793, \"end\": 156.814, \"score\": 0.012}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 156.814, \"end\": 156.874, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 156.874, \"end\": 156.894, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 156.894, \"end\": 156.914, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 156.914, \"end\": 156.934, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 164.881, \"end\": 182.38, \"text\": \"那今天的解凍說實在話也沒有什麼太大的困難因為當時本來就認為說這部分請你們要做專案報告可是我今天很不滿的是你怎麼可以對外放話說我們如果今天這個廚師這個費用不解凍阿B哥就會餓肚子兩星期\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 164.881, \"end\": 165.061, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 165.061, \"end\": 165.181, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"天\", 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430.6, \"end\": 455.036, \"text\": \"所以另外一個部分 何富密您講的我知道但是我覺得您又岔題了這也是我很佩服您的地方我剛剛其實問就是說是總統接受媒體訪問總統府有沒有付錢沒有 那沒有就非常好那就代表說總統的發言還有總統府的公關做得很好媒體都願意來免費報導那這樣我也鼓勵你們未來可以朝這個方向去做可是我們的直播怎麼辦呢有關於這個緊急危難的部分我們的翻譯怎麼辦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 430.6, \"end\": 430.78, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 430.78, \"end\": 431.24, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 431.24, \"end\": 431.361, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 431.361, \"end\": 431.521, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 431.521, \"end\": 431.761, \"score\": 0.567}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 431.761, \"end\": 432.141, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 432.141, \"end\": 432.321, \"score\": 0.512}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 432.321, \"end\": 432.962, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"富\", \"start\": 432.962, \"end\": 433.122, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 433.122, \"end\": 433.402, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"您\", 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\"這是基於雙方的一個不相同的問題我也知道這可能涉及到一些機密但是你不要忘記我們立法院也可以開秘密會議我們可以不需要公開讓所有的媒體讓所有的民眾看這個直播但是我們立法院可以召開秘密會議你們也可以提密件報告在國防外交委員會都有這麼做\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 857.618, \"end\": 857.738, \"score\": 0.215}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 857.738, \"end\": 857.938, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 857.938, \"end\": 858.458, \"score\": 0.54}, {\"word\": \"雙\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 858.458, \"end\": 858.598, \"score\": 0.381}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 858.598, \"end\": 858.739, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 858.739, \"end\": 858.759, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 858.759, \"end\": 858.959, \"score\": 0.578}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 858.959, \"end\": 859.179, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 859.179, \"end\": 859.219, \"score\": 0.099}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 859.219, \"end\": 859.879, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", 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{\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 941.144, \"end\": 941.324, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 941.324, \"end\": 941.564, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 941.564, \"end\": 941.884, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 941.884, \"end\": 942.004, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 942.004, \"end\": 942.324, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 942.324, \"end\": 942.484, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 942.484, \"end\": 942.784, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 942.784, \"end\": 942.885, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 942.885, \"end\": 942.945, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 942.945, \"end\": 943.125, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 943.125, \"end\": 943.345, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, 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{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 947.288, \"end\": 947.408, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 947.408, \"end\": 947.428, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 947.428, \"end\": 947.528, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 947.528, \"end\": 948.009, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 948.009, \"end\": 948.149, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 948.149, \"end\": 948.25, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 948.25, \"end\": 948.27, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 948.27, \"end\": 948.29, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 948.29, \"end\": 948.31, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"諮\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 948.31, \"end\": 948.35, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 948.35, \"end\": 948.49, 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\"有沒有這個可能性因為我問了一下我們本委員會以前從來沒有過這樣的前例啦是沒有這樣的前例但是不代表說不可以開嘛在我們法規上面有禁止說司法法治委員會不可以開命令會議嗎對否則我覺得這未來就是一個漏洞啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 961.448, \"end\": 961.548, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 961.548, \"end\": 961.568, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 961.568, \"end\": 961.928, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 961.928, \"end\": 962.129, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 962.129, \"end\": 962.369, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 962.369, \"end\": 962.909, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 962.909, \"end\": 963.189, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 963.189, \"end\": 963.329, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 963.329, \"end\": 963.49, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 963.49, \"end\": 963.55, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 963.55, \"end\": 963.73, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 973.738, \"end\": 973.898, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 973.898, \"end\": 974.038, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 974.038, \"end\": 974.518, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 974.518, \"end\": 974.658, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 974.658, \"end\": 974.798, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 974.798, \"end\": 975.139, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 975.139, \"end\": 976.54, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 976.54, \"end\": 976.7, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 976.7, \"end\": 977.0, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 977.0, \"end\": 977.26, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 977.26, \"end\": 977.761, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 977.761, \"end\": 978.001, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 978.001, \"end\": 978.141, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 978.141, \"end\": 978.241, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 978.241, \"end\": 978.361, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"漏\", \"start\": 978.361, \"end\": 978.621, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"洞\", \"start\": 978.621, \"end\": 978.822, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 978.822, \"end\": 978.842, \"score\": 0.046}]}, {\"start\": 979.963, \"end\": 999.225, \"text\": \"對 國安會每年的預算送給我們審查就我們竟然沒有辦法知道說他們到底用到哪裡去了只有一個總頭頭的一個經費幾千萬上億是總頭頭 我有分區域 有分次數這我都有報告那我怎麼知道你寫的是對還是不對我們都有經過會計和審核我們不可能撒謊啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 979.963, \"end\": 980.483, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 980.483, \"end\": 980.643, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 980.643, 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{\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"買\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1143.755, \"end\": 1144.275, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1144.275, \"end\": 1144.515, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 1144.515, \"end\": 1144.756, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1144.756, \"end\": 1145.296, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 1145.296, \"end\": 1145.496, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1145.496, \"end\": 1145.596, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 1145.596, \"end\": 1145.736, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 1145.736, \"end\": 1145.816, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"兵\", \"start\": 1145.816, \"end\": 1145.836, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1148.297, \"end\": 1148.998, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1148.998, \"end\": 1149.218, 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\"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1154.322, \"end\": 1154.723, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 1154.723, \"end\": 1154.883, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1154.883, \"end\": 1155.223, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1155.223, \"end\": 1155.323, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1155.323, \"end\": 1155.824, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1155.824, \"end\": 1156.164, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1156.164, \"end\": 1156.664, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1156.664, \"end\": 1156.865, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1156.865, \"end\": 1157.065, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 1157.065, \"end\": 1157.245, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 1157.245, \"end\": 1157.445, 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\"start\": 1162.429, \"end\": 1162.549, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1162.549, \"end\": 1162.99, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"吃\", \"start\": 1162.99, \"end\": 1163.39, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"飯\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1163.39, \"end\": 1163.73, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 1163.73, \"end\": 1163.971, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 1163.971, \"end\": 1165.532, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1165.532, \"end\": 1165.652, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 1165.652, \"end\": 1165.832, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1165.832, \"end\": 1166.213, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1166.213, \"end\": 1166.513, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 1166.513, \"end\": 1166.833, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1166.833, \"end\": 1166.993, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1166.993, \"end\": 1168.234, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 1168.234, \"end\": 1168.795, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1168.795, \"end\": 1169.976, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 1169.976, \"end\": 1170.096, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 1170.096, \"end\": 1170.196, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 1170.196, \"end\": 1170.356, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1170.356, \"end\": 1170.476, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 1170.476, \"end\": 1170.677, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1170.677, \"end\": 1171.217, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1171.217, \"end\": 1171.337, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1171.337, \"end\": 1171.577, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 1171.577, \"end\": 1171.717, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1171.717, \"end\": 1171.777, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 1171.777, \"end\": 1171.898, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 1171.898, \"end\": 1171.918, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"鳳\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,028 --> 00:00:09,389\n首先先請何副秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:19,386 --> 00:00:47,232\n黃委員您好是何副秘你好這個因為今天早上我們考慮到就是國安會秘書長還有總統府秘書長沒有來所以我們早上就是先會議休息然後呢您在中間的時候是不是有接受媒體訪問講說我們如果今天總統府的預算案不解凍的話阿兵哥再兩星期就沒飯吃是嗎是的是你不覺得您這樣子說這個話\n\n3\n00:00:50,351 --> 00:00:58,043\n這個混淆是非啊我們今天要解凍的是什麼案子業務費裡面是跟阿兵哥的伙食費相同嗎我們是當時是凍結的是阿兵哥的伙食費嗎\n\n4\n00:01:04,192 --> 00:01:08,237\n他是在我們的業務費裡面的其中一項一項什麼我快速跟是廚師費嘛在聘廚師的費用你們自己報告裡面顯示聘廚師的費用對不對他接下來的確會影響到他們的三餐的膳食\n\n5\n00:01:24,455 --> 00:01:35,447\n今天我們要解凍的是什麼費用是廚師的費用嘛聘廚師的費用你們自己報告書上面寫得很清楚啊每個月差不多八萬多塊錢聘廚師的費用這個跟伙食費不一樣啊您說話有沒有邏輯太跳躍了\n\n6\n00:01:45,216 --> 00:01:54,060\n我們伙食費沒有刪沒有凍結就算是今天沒有廚師去煮飯給阿兵哥吃還是可以對外買水餃買便當買麥當勞吧\n\n7\n00:01:59,759 --> 00:02:14,974\n不會讓阿兵哥餓到肚子嘛對不對我們真的很擔心啦就是第一個包含水電費沒了然後他們的三餐全部其實我真的很不會煮飯我最會煮的就是維大利炸醬麵而已\n\n8\n00:02:16,576 --> 00:02:36,934\n那廚師也好他們要選材洗材然後還要清潔而且因為總統府跟其他的單位比較不一樣他負責國家中樞這些元首甚至像各個重要的官員是何富密您說的我都了解我也絕對是認為說我們辛苦的憲兵弟兄們不可以讓他們餓肚子不可以讓他們吃不好這完全都同意\n\n9\n00:02:44,881 --> 00:03:02,380\n那今天的解凍說實在話也沒有什麼太大的困難因為當時本來就認為說這部分請你們要做專案報告可是我今天很不滿的是你怎麼可以對外放話說我們如果今天這個廚師這個費用不解凍阿B哥就會餓肚子兩星期\n\n10\n00:03:03,651 --> 00:03:08,375\n在兩星期阿兵哥就會餓肚子啊這是錯誤的這是一個造謠跟委員報告不僅僅阿兵哥會餓到肚子我們連一些僱員都會被解僱掉大概二十幾個人所以委員如果說我講話可以再\n\n11\n00:03:21,485 --> 00:03:48,047\n對的解凍這是兩回事我現在只是講說你接受媒體採訪的時候因為你又這麼有媒體經驗你怎麼會不知道說這句話的影響力是對所以我今天只是要糾正是對這只是我們今天要解凍的有許只是一個聘廚室的費用但是這跟阿兵哥的伙食費沒有關係請你不要在那邊造謠說又是我們藍白立委喔這是害阿兵哥又沒飯吃又讓他們餓肚子\n\n12\n00:03:49,488 --> 00:03:52,671\n真的讓他們餓肚子的是你們啦如果說這個沒有聘到廚師或是人家廚師辭職如果廚師辭職的話是不是阿民哥就會餓肚子呢不會嘛你們還是會想辦法買外賣啊我同意文委員的說法那但是很抱歉我來質詢台備詢之前我五六日我有問一下我們第一線的這些兄弟姊妹士官兵我說你們誰會煮飯\n\n13\n00:04:15,885 --> 00:04:26,595\n他們都說現在什麼時代一定要會煮飯嗎就是阿民哥的伙食是一定要要自己有廚師去煮飯嗎對不對好啦這個何鳳敏我不要再跟你討論這個細節齁那麼我只是要希望你能夠為這個事情\n\n14\n00:04:32,922 --> 00:04:49,360\n至少要说明白不是砍的是伙食费而是厨师费对不对我希望待会的这个媒体也可以做更正报道就澄清了事实澄清的报道但是他们真的说他们又要战哨然后又要晒太阳他们下\n\n15\n00:04:50,822 --> 00:04:59,591\n哪一個軍人弟兄不是這樣所以我們才要調高軍人待遇啊你們又反對這個民進黨的委員又反對反對給這個軍人待遇調整\n\n16\n00:05:07,110 --> 00:05:25,972\n所以民進黨很多的邏輯是非常奇怪的接下來我要問的就是說有關於你們講說因為業務被刪所以可能會影響到總統府的媒體新聞的宣傳等等我在這裡我想請問這次總統他接受了幾個媒體的採訪\n\n17\n00:05:28,900 --> 00:05:39,974\n是總統府有沒有付這個受訪的費用不管是閩迪選讀日本經濟新聞還有財訊這個部分就我所知沒有\n\n18\n00:05:41,295 --> 00:05:59,870\n這是沒有確定沒有我們之後下一年度看的時候看到你們的經費報這其實是有像過去蔡英文總統在選舉的時候我還記得是接受博恩夜夜秀的訪問本來以為說博恩夜夜秀是單純去邀訪\n\n19\n00:06:00,791 --> 00:06:20,368\n等到事後才發現這也是付費的啊所以你們確定嗎這三個節目是沒有付任何的費用給媒體那如果是這樣的話那就代表說其實媒體對於總統府的這個各項的業務啊採訪這些都是很有興趣那你們其實真的可以節省這筆費用嗎\n\n20\n00:06:21,977 --> 00:06:44,986\n你們媒體新聞宣傳費可以節省起來反正這麼多的媒體都對總統府很有興趣對總統的八眼也很有興趣以後應該要多邀他們來做免費報導我覺得這一方面也是節省功效不是嗎我跟委員報告一下其實帶我長大的我自己是單親家庭啦帶我長大的是一個身心障礙的哥哥我自己的\n\n21\n00:06:46,651 --> 00:07:10,180\n這個表格那我想台灣為什麼會讓全世界尊重我們因為我們在總統在說話的時候不管是聽障的朋友還是如何我們都有手語的翻譯我們不要漏了不要漏了任何一個人那此外其實台灣受到全世界的尊重跟喜愛我們有多國的翻譯都在這一筆的預算裡面\n\n22\n00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:35,036\n所以另外一個部分何富密您講的我知道但是我覺得您又岔題了這也是我很佩服您的地方我剛剛其實問就是說是總統接受媒體訪問總統府有沒有付錢沒有那沒有就非常好那就代表說總統的發言還有總統府的公關做得很好媒體都願意來免費報導那這樣我也鼓勵你們未來可以朝這個方向去做可是我們的直播怎麼辦呢有關於這個緊急危難的部分我們的翻譯怎麼辦\n\n23\n00:07:40,740 --> 00:08:04,384\n你們可以把你們要去做媒體更換費用我們也不可能長期的找志工來這樣子真的會口語的翻譯好那接下來我要這個修語老師也我也我真的不會修語這個部分的費用解凍我們待會會再談拜託謝謝支持接下來我還會再講就是說有關於緊急危難未問金的部分看起來你們是如果這個費用沒有解凍國務教費裡面這個我們現在是動多少是\n\n24\n00:08:10,766 --> 00:08:25,581\n動了一千萬如果沒有動的話總統是連緊急危難的補助金慰問金都發不出來是嗎是的我跟委員報告一下請問一下總統現在一個月領多少薪水像最近的這個車禍的事件\n\n25\n00:08:27,118 --> 00:08:38,231\n總統其實到現場他也不接受媒體的訪問所以總統心有餘而力不足因為他沒有那個錢可以先支出緊急危難的慰問金是嗎\n\n26\n00:08:41,775 --> 00:08:57,019\n就我所知他有時候會自己掏腰包啦至少我現在沒有聽到總統有自己掏腰包付支付緊急危難慰問金的情況我們只有看到中央政府不斷地講我們如果說扣了國務機要費那總統就沒有辦法用我們的公帑去支付緊急危難的慰問金\n\n27\n00:09:05,742 --> 00:09:13,206\n其實他不僅僅緊急為難包含一些軍警我想請教一下總統每個月現在支領是多少薪水100萬嗎70萬要精準喔要精準喔來請回應\n\n28\n00:09:24,546 --> 00:09:36,037\n因為我們今年有調薪3%嘛公教人員有調薪3%那總統副總統的薪水我們依照內政部配合公教人員調薪3%他答覆給我們的是546,970台加特資費呢\n\n29\n00:09:39,844 --> 00:09:53,914\n沒有特殊費啊做得好就是國際藥費嘛對對對就是一個月五六十萬嘛還加年終獎金等等我們這樣講好了表達一個心意表達一個慰問金就算是這個國際藥費暫時凍結總統連這點小錢都不願意出嗎他連這樣的一個慰問的這個慰問的這個費用請問委員我可以回答嗎對他可以先暫待啊\n\n30\n00:10:05,781 --> 00:10:24,266\n我覺得今天講的好像是總統只要是沒有這筆錢他連一般的社會的慰問緊急危難這些都沒有辦法做我覺得這是總統的心意就算是我們現在立法委員我們沒有編任何的什麼緊急危難的這個費用我遇到了\n\n31\n00:10:25,174 --> 00:10:37,523\n有需要幫忙的人需要去救助的我自己還是會用我的薪水去我會花自己的錢去救助\n\n32\n00:10:38,832 --> 00:11:06,558\n所以我認為說總統府不要把這些事情拿來講說因為這個錢如果不解凍的話會影響到委員可以給我30秒我30秒快速回應其實每一年總統府都會跟我們的弱勢團體採購水果或者手工皂手工餅乾這些讓這些社福團體他們能夠被看到而且有時候募款很辛苦的時候他們可以去做到第二件事情跟委員報告\n\n33\n00:11:08,078 --> 00:11:22,074\n你可以上網自己搜尋其實賴總統以前真的都把他的薪水有捐給很多不同的社福團體但是他為善不欲人知所以並沒有特別的去做PR或者是做這些公關的部分\n\n34\n00:11:33,389 --> 00:11:57,117\n今天是副秘書長來我想您今天大概從早到現在大概也受到了很多的炮火其實大家不是對您不滿大家主要是對吳釗燮秘書長不滿真的是藐視國會明明按照我們現在組織法國安會就是有要到立法院來備詢而且接受立法院的監督可是你們可以這麼多次都不來坦白說看起來\n\n35\n00:11:58,357 --> 00:12:05,781\n吳釗信秘書長也不太在乎國安會的這個預算到底要不要解凍那因為剛剛涉及到一個事情所以我在這裡我要講就是剛剛說政務人員待遇為什麼我們只凍十萬元\n\n36\n00:12:10,953 --> 00:12:22,464\n我要講的是當時的提案是因為我們有發現國安會在政務人員待遇今年的編列費用比去年高達多出15.85%這是超出過去的這個幅度\n\n37\n00:12:28,650 --> 00:12:33,172\n而且依照公務人員的加薪每年加3%3%也加不到15.85%所以我們提出來這個問題請你們做專案報告後來這個本來是凍結100萬後來談談說好吧現在這樣的話只凍了10萬元\n\n38\n00:12:44,076 --> 00:13:05,252\n是這樣的緣由不是王一川委員說的他那時候還沒有進來所以我就說委員要用功啦要去質詢的時候也要先看看人家之前的提案是什麼不要在那邊亂造謠那接下來還有一個部分就是有關於國安會這邊講的說要我們對於這個諮詢研究業務費用希望國安會要提出專案報告你們現在列的這是什麼這是叫專案報告兩頁叫專案報告\n\n39\n00:13:13,106 --> 00:13:22,134\n徐副秘書長您的報告的概念跟我們做報告的概念是完全不一樣這加起來可能都還不到兩千字這就叫做報告報告委員這個內容主要是\n\n40\n00:13:28,629 --> 00:13:33,310\n因為當時黃國昌委員問的是我們那個經費是怎麼使用那我們就是把用人別國別還有旅行的次數把它報告出來所以你們去了哪些國家做了什麼樣研究做了什麼調查難道我們沒有權利知道嗎難道人民不應該知道說到底官會每年編了這麼多的錢是用到哪裡了\n\n41\n00:13:52,534 --> 00:14:17,058\n你們怎麼知道說你們是不是到日本去看黑熊或是到什麼冰島去看極光我們不可能去冰島看極光啦所以你要告訴我你們要去哪裡我已經講了我們這裡面都有專案每個專案去哪些但是委員我跟您說去哪些國家我們沒辦法講這是因為我們國安人員出去通常是不露出的\n\n42\n00:14:17,618 --> 00:14:24,981\n這是基於雙方的一個不相同的問題我也知道這可能涉及到一些機密但是你不要忘記我們立法院也可以開秘密會議我們可以不需要公開讓所有的媒體讓所有的民眾看這個直播但是我們立法院可以召開秘密會議你們也可以提密件報告在國防外交委員會都有這麼做\n\n43\n00:14:42,648 --> 00:15:02,569\n所以你們沒有道理說不讓我們立法委員知道你們今天到底去哪裡開會否則我們很合理的懷疑為什麼不敢講對不對連監察院都可以說他們編列外國參旅費是到日本去看黑熊那國安會議到底你們做了些什麼\n\n44\n00:15:03,871 --> 00:15:15,487\n總是可以跟我們個別委員或是我們就裝開一個小的群組讓我們大概知道我們也不需要知道具體名下的名所以這個叫專案報告這是一個不合格的專案報告啊所以我們只能這樣寫\n\n45\n00:15:20,580 --> 00:15:43,485\n我寫的沒有不跟您講請教主席如果說今天我們認為這個專案報告裡面的內容應該要更清楚那麼國安會認為說這可能社交機密我們是不是可以開一個秘密會議呢就是我們純粹委員這邊然後這樣才能夠知道他們的專案報告內容什麼否則的話我們今天怎麼可能會讓你們這個案子過\n\n46\n00:15:46,206 --> 00:15:49,131\n就預算的部分他這裡我們不是講說就他的研究諮詢業務當時的研究諮詢業務說三個月內提出專案報告並經同意嗎\n\n47\n00:16:01,448 --> 00:16:18,842\n有沒有這個可能性因為我問了一下我們本委員會以前從來沒有過這樣的前例啦是沒有這樣的前例但是不代表說不可以開嘛在我們法規上面有禁止說司法法治委員會不可以開命令會議嗎對否則我覺得這未來就是一個漏洞啊\n\n48\n00:16:19,963 --> 00:16:39,225\n對國安會每年的預算送給我們審查就我們竟然沒有辦法知道說他們到底用到哪裡去了只有一個總頭頭的一個經費幾千萬上億是總頭頭我有分區域有分次數這我都有報告那我怎麼知道你寫的是對還是不對我們都有經過會計和審核我們不可能撒謊啊\n\n49\n00:16:41,475 --> 00:17:06,855\n現在連光雲撒謊這個大法官都認為沒有處罰啦所以我根本不知道你們到底有沒有撒謊啦我們經過會計程序怎麼可能撒謊呢我想我們立法院重要的職責基本上就是監督警政機關我們也很希望了解到底業務機關做了什麼事情這個可以作為你們日後要增加預算\n\n50\n00:17:07,375 --> 00:17:21,432\n或是在兵力預算的時候就我們大家就比較清楚否則的話現在以你們這樣子的一個報告方式我們根本不知道你們到底去開了什麼會議做了什麼考察然後只是說依照地區然後什麼來區分\n\n51\n00:17:23,354 --> 00:17:36,703\n任何一個機關的報告都不可能這樣子寫報告委員我們不是去考察我們都是去開會沒有考察這種東西是所以去開會會議總要有個名稱吧有名稱但是沒辦法講報告委員沒辦法在這裡講我是跟您說實話所以我才說這可能可以涉及到密會或是你們有密件的方式來提供給我們知道送密件的方式是其他委員會也都有過的不是說沒有的\n\n52\n00:17:52,293 --> 00:18:05,351\n對我們如果看了密件未來我們洩漏機密這個是要負責任的負刑責的每個委員都很清楚我們的法律責任是什麼可是你們不能因此而規避掉你們的責任我們沒有規避報告委員我們沒有規避\n\n53\n00:18:06,482 --> 00:18:24,633\n我可以把你們的報告我直接可以貼臉書然後請社會大眾來公平看看我們是不是同意國安會這樣的專案報告可以讓他解凍預算因為我今天耽誤太多時間雖然我還準備了很多題目不過就是謝謝昭緯給我這樣的時間就是說剛剛有提到\n\n54\n00:18:29,016 --> 00:18:37,633\n秘會的部分因為以前沒有前例啦那今天會後的話我們會研究一下那當然法規沒有禁止這個是我要在這邊先跟各位報告\n\n55\n00:18:40,765 --> 00:19:05,836\n那那個剛剛就是有關翁委員所提到的就是火石費的部分因為剛剛我們那個國防外交委員會的委員有特別請我在這邊跟大家說明一下就是因為國軍的官兵薪資裡面是由官兵向那個單位繳納納入火石團採買所以總統府的預算如果被凍結憲兵\n\n56\n00:19:08,297 --> 00:19:31,918\n就是211營它的伙食它是無關的所以說這是剛剛那個國防委員會的委員給我們的就是說今天的業務費如果沒有解凍的話其實跟官兵沒有錢吃飯是兩回事這是剛剛國防委員會那當然這部分再請大家了解一下好謝謝那我們下一位請陳美鳳\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9028\t9389\t首先先請何副秘書長\n19386\t47232\t黃委員您好是何副秘你好這個因為今天早上我們考慮到就是國安會秘書長還有總統府秘書長沒有來所以我們早上就是先會議休息然後呢您在中間的時候是不是有接受媒體訪問講說我們如果今天總統府的預算案不解凍的話阿兵哥再兩星期就沒飯吃是嗎是的是你不覺得您這樣子說這個話\n50351\t58043\t這個混淆是非啊我們今天要解凍的是什麼案子業務費裡面是跟阿兵哥的伙食費相同嗎我們是當時是凍結的是阿兵哥的伙食費嗎\n64192\t68237\t他是在我們的業務費裡面的其中一項一項什麼我快速跟是廚師費嘛在聘廚師的費用你們自己報告裡面顯示聘廚師的費用對不對他接下來的確會影響到他們的三餐的膳食\n84455\t95447\t今天我們要解凍的是什麼費用是廚師的費用嘛 聘廚師的費用你們自己報告書上面寫得很清楚啊每個月差不多八萬多塊錢 聘廚師的費用這個跟伙食費不一樣啊您說話有沒有邏輯太跳躍了\n105216\t114060\t我們伙食費沒有刪 沒有凍結就算是今天沒有廚師去煮飯給阿兵哥吃還是可以對外買水餃 買便當 買麥當勞吧\n119759\t134974\t不會讓阿兵哥餓到肚子嘛對不對我們真的很擔心啦就是第一個包含水電費沒了然後他們的三餐全部其實我真的很不會煮飯我最會煮的就是維大利炸醬麵而已\n136576\t156934\t那廚師也好 他們要選材 洗材 然後還要清潔而且因為總統府跟其他的單位比較不一樣他負責國家中樞 這些元首 甚至像各個重要的官員是 何富密 您說的我都了解我也絕對是認為說 我們辛苦的憲兵弟兄們不可以讓他們餓肚子 不可以讓他們吃不好這完全都同意\n164881\t182380\t那今天的解凍說實在話也沒有什麼太大的困難因為當時本來就認為說這部分請你們要做專案報告可是我今天很不滿的是你怎麼可以對外放話說我們如果今天這個廚師這個費用不解凍阿B哥就會餓肚子兩星期\n183651\t188375\t在兩星期阿兵哥就會餓肚子啊這是錯誤的這是一個造謠跟委員報告不僅僅阿兵哥會餓到肚子我們連一些僱員都會被解僱掉大概二十幾個人所以委員如果說我講話可以再\n201485\t228047\t對的解凍這是兩回事我現在只是講說你接受媒體採訪的時候因為你又這麼有媒體經驗你怎麼會不知道說這句話的影響力是對所以我今天只是要糾正是對這只是我們今天要解凍的有許只是一個聘廚室的費用但是這跟阿兵哥的伙食費沒有關係請你不要在那邊造謠說又是我們藍白立委喔這是害阿兵哥又沒飯吃又讓他們餓肚子\n229488\t232671\t真的讓他們餓肚子的是你們啦如果說這個沒有聘到廚師或是人家廚師辭職如果廚師辭職的話是不是阿民哥就會餓肚子呢不會嘛你們還是會想辦法買外賣啊我同意文委員的說法那但是很抱歉我來質詢台備詢之前我五六日我有問一下我們第一線的這些兄弟姊妹士官兵我說你們誰會煮飯\n255885\t266595\t他們都說現在什麼時代一定要會煮飯嗎就是阿民哥的伙食是一定要要自己有廚師去煮飯嗎對不對好啦這個何鳳敏我不要再跟你討論這個細節齁那麼我只是要希望你能夠為這個事情\n272922\t289360\t至少要说明白不是砍的是伙食费而是厨师费对不对我希望待会的这个媒体也可以做更正报道就澄清了事实澄清的报道但是他们真的说他们又要战哨然后又要晒太阳他们下\n290822\t299591\t哪一個軍人弟兄不是這樣所以我們才要調高軍人待遇啊你們又反對這個民進黨的委員又反對反對給這個軍人待遇調整\n307110\t325972\t所以民進黨很多的邏輯是非常奇怪的接下來我要問的就是說有關於你們講說因為業務被刪所以可能會影響到總統府的媒體新聞的宣傳等等我在這裡我想請問這次總統他接受了幾個媒體的採訪\n328900\t339974\t是總統府有沒有付這個受訪的費用不管是閩迪選讀日本經濟新聞還有財訊這個部分就我所知沒有\n341295\t359870\t這是沒有確定沒有我們之後下一年度看的時候看到你們的經費報這其實是有像過去蔡英文總統在選舉的時候我還記得是接受博恩夜夜秀的訪問本來以為說博恩夜夜秀是單純去邀訪\n360791\t380368\t等到事後才發現這也是付費的啊所以你們確定嗎這三個節目是沒有付任何的費用給媒體那如果是這樣的話那就代表說其實媒體對於總統府的這個各項的業務啊採訪這些都是很有興趣那你們其實真的可以節省這筆費用嗎\n381977\t404986\t你們媒體新聞宣傳費可以節省起來反正這麼多的媒體都對總統府很有興趣對總統的八眼也很有興趣以後應該要多邀他們來做免費報導我覺得這一方面也是節省功效不是嗎我跟委員報告一下其實帶我長大的我自己是單親家庭啦帶我長大的是一個身心障礙的哥哥我自己的\n406651\t430180\t這個表格那我想台灣為什麼會讓全世界尊重我們因為我們在總統在說話的時候不管是聽障的朋友還是如何我們都有手語的翻譯我們不要漏了不要漏了任何一個人那此外其實台灣受到全世界的尊重跟喜愛我們有多國的翻譯都在這一筆的預算裡面\n430600\t455036\t所以另外一個部分 何富密您講的我知道但是我覺得您又岔題了這也是我很佩服您的地方我剛剛其實問就是說是總統接受媒體訪問總統府有沒有付錢沒有 那沒有就非常好那就代表說總統的發言還有總統府的公關做得很好媒體都願意來免費報導那這樣我也鼓勵你們未來可以朝這個方向去做可是我們的直播怎麼辦呢有關於這個緊急危難的部分我們的翻譯怎麼辦\n460740\t484384\t你們可以把你們要去做媒體更換費用我們也不可能長期的找志工來這樣子真的會口語的翻譯好那接下來我要這個修語老師也我也我真的不會修語這個部分的費用解凍我們待會會再談拜託謝謝支持接下來我還會再講就是說有關於緊急危難未問金的部分看起來你們是如果這個費用沒有解凍國務教費裡面這個我們現在是動多少是\n490766\t505581\t動了一千萬如果沒有動的話總統是連緊急危難的補助金慰問金都發不出來是嗎是的我跟委員報告一下請問一下總統現在一個月領多少薪水像最近的這個車禍的事件\n507118\t518231\t總統其實到現場他也不接受媒體的訪問所以總統心有餘而力不足因為他沒有那個錢可以先支出緊急危難的慰問金是嗎\n521775\t537019\t就我所知他有時候會自己掏腰包啦至少我現在沒有聽到總統有自己掏腰包付支付緊急危難慰問金的情況我們只有看到中央政府不斷地講我們如果說扣了國務機要費那總統就沒有辦法用我們的公帑去支付緊急危難的慰問金\n545742\t553206\t其實他不僅僅緊急為難 包含一些軍警我想請教一下 總統每個月現在支領是多少薪水100萬嗎70萬要精準喔 要精準喔 來 請回應\n564546\t576037\t因為我們今年有調薪3%嘛 公教人員有調薪3%那總統副總統的薪水我們依照內政部配合公教人員調薪3%他答覆給我們的是546,970台加特資費呢\n579844\t593914\t沒有特殊費啊做得好 就是國際藥費嘛 對對對就是一個月五六十萬嘛 還加年終獎金等等我們這樣講好了表達一個心意 表達一個慰問金就算是這個國際藥費暫時凍結總統連這點小錢都不願意出嗎他連這樣的一個慰問的這個慰問的這個費用 請問委員我可以回答嗎對 他可以先暫待啊\n605781\t624266\t我覺得今天講的好像是總統只要是沒有這筆錢他連一般的社會的慰問緊急危難這些都沒有辦法做我覺得這是總統的心意就算是我們現在立法委員我們沒有編任何的什麼緊急危難的這個費用我遇到了\n625174\t637523\t有需要幫忙的人需要去救助的我自己還是會用我的薪水去我會花自己的錢去救助\n638832\t666558\t所以我認為說總統府不要把這些事情拿來講說因為這個錢如果不解凍的話會影響到委員可以給我30秒我30秒快速回應其實每一年總統府都會跟我們的弱勢團體採購水果或者手工皂手工餅乾這些讓這些社福團體他們能夠被看到而且有時候募款很辛苦的時候他們可以去做到第二件事情跟委員報告\n668078\t682074\t你可以上網自己搜尋其實賴總統以前真的都把他的薪水有捐給很多不同的社福團體但是他為善不欲人知所以並沒有特別的去做PR或者是做這些公關的部分\n693389\t717117\t今天是副秘書長來我想您今天大概從早到現在大概也受到了很多的炮火其實大家不是對您不滿大家主要是對吳釗燮秘書長不滿真的是藐視國會明明按照我們現在組織法國安會就是有要到立法院來備詢而且接受立法院的監督可是你們可以這麼多次都不來坦白說看起來\n718357\t725781\t吳釗信秘書長也不太在乎國安會的這個預算到底要不要解凍那因為剛剛涉及到一個事情所以我在這裡我要講就是剛剛說政務人員待遇為什麼我們只凍十萬元\n730953\t742464\t我要講的是當時的提案是因為我們有發現國安會在政務人員待遇今年的編列費用比去年高達多出15.85%這是超出過去的這個幅度\n748650\t753172\t而且依照公務人員的加薪每年加3%3%也加不到15.85%所以我們提出來這個問題請你們做專案報告後來這個本來是凍結100萬後來談談說好吧現在這樣的話只凍了10萬元\n764076\t785252\t是這樣的緣由不是王一川委員說的他那時候還沒有進來所以我就說委員要用功啦要去質詢的時候也要先看看人家之前的提案是什麼不要在那邊亂造謠那接下來還有一個部分就是有關於國安會這邊講的說要我們對於這個諮詢研究業務費用希望國安會要提出專案報告你們現在列的這是什麼這是叫專案報告兩頁叫專案報告\n793106\t802134\t徐副秘書長您的報告的概念跟我們做報告的概念是完全不一樣這加起來可能都還不到兩千字這就叫做報告報告委員這個內容主要是\n808629\t813310\t因為當時黃國昌委員問的是我們那個經費是怎麼使用那我們就是把用人別國別還有旅行的次數把它報告出來所以你們去了哪些國家做了什麼樣研究做了什麼調查難道我們沒有權利知道嗎難道人民不應該知道說到底官會每年編了這麼多的錢是用到哪裡了\n832534\t857058\t你們怎麼知道說你們是不是到日本去看黑熊或是到什麼冰島去看極光我們不可能去冰島看極光啦所以你要告訴我你們要去哪裡我已經講了我們這裡面都有專案每個專案去哪些但是委員我跟您說去哪些國家我們沒辦法講這是因為我們國安人員出去通常是不露出的\n857618\t864981\t這是基於雙方的一個不相同的問題我也知道這可能涉及到一些機密但是你不要忘記我們立法院也可以開秘密會議我們可以不需要公開讓所有的媒體讓所有的民眾看這個直播但是我們立法院可以召開秘密會議你們也可以提密件報告在國防外交委員會都有這麼做\n882648\t902569\t所以你們沒有道理說不讓我們立法委員知道你們今天到底去哪裡開會否則我們很合理的懷疑為什麼不敢講對不對連監察院都可以說他們編列外國參旅費是到日本去看黑熊那國安會議到底你們做了些什麼\n903871\t915487\t總是可以跟我們個別委員 或是我們就裝開一個小的群組讓我們大概知道 我們也不需要知道具體名下的名所以這個叫專案報告這是一個不合格的專案報告啊所以我們只能這樣寫\n920580\t943485\t我寫的沒有不跟您講請教主席如果說今天我們認為這個專案報告裡面的內容應該要更清楚那麼國安會認為說這可能社交機密我們是不是可以開一個秘密會議呢就是我們純粹委員這邊然後這樣才能夠知道他們的專案報告內容什麼否則的話我們今天怎麼可能會讓你們這個案子過\n946206\t949131\t就預算的部分他這裡我們不是講說就他的研究諮詢業務當時的研究諮詢業務說三個月內提出專案報告並經同意嗎\n961448\t978842\t有沒有這個可能性因為我問了一下我們本委員會以前從來沒有過這樣的前例啦是沒有這樣的前例但是不代表說不可以開嘛在我們法規上面有禁止說司法法治委員會不可以開命令會議嗎對否則我覺得這未來就是一個漏洞啊\n979963\t999225\t對 國安會每年的預算送給我們審查就我們竟然沒有辦法知道說他們到底用到哪裡去了只有一個總頭頭的一個經費幾千萬上億是總頭頭 我有分區域 有分次數這我都有報告那我怎麼知道你寫的是對還是不對我們都有經過會計和審核我們不可能撒謊啊\n1001475\t1026855\t現在連光雲撒謊這個大法官都認為沒有處罰啦所以我根本不知道你們到底有沒有撒謊啦我們經過會計程序怎麼可能撒謊呢我想我們立法院重要的職責基本上就是監督警政機關我們也很希望了解到底業務機關做了什麼事情這個可以作為你們日後要增加預算\n1027375\t1041432\t或是在兵力預算的時候就我們大家就比較清楚否則的話現在以你們這樣子的一個報告方式我們根本不知道你們到底去開了什麼會議做了什麼考察然後只是說依照地區然後什麼來區分\n1043354\t1056703\t任何一個機關的報告都不可能這樣子寫報告委員我們不是去考察我們都是去開會沒有考察這種東西是 所以去開會會議總要有個名稱吧有名稱但是沒辦法講報告委員沒辦法在這裡講我是跟您說實話所以我才說這可能可以涉及到密會或是你們有密件的方式來提供給我們知道送密件的方式是其他委員會也都有過的不是說沒有的\n1072293\t1085351\t對 我們如果看了密件 未來我們洩漏機密這個是要負責任的 負刑責的每個委員都很清楚我們的法律責任是什麼可是你們不能因此而規避掉你們的責任我們沒有規避 報告委員我們沒有規避\n1086482\t1104633\t我可以把你們的報告我直接可以貼臉書然後請社會大眾來公平看看我們是不是同意國安會這樣的專案報告可以讓他解凍預算因為我今天耽誤太多時間雖然我還準備了很多題目不過就是謝謝昭緯給我這樣的時間就是說剛剛有提到\n1109016\t1117633\t秘會的部分 因為以前沒有前例啦 那今天會後的話我們會研究一下那當然法規沒有禁止 這個是我要在這邊先跟各位報告\n1120765\t1145836\t那那個剛剛就是有關翁委員所提到的就是火石費的部分因為剛剛我們那個國防外交委員會的委員有特別請我在這邊跟大家說明一下就是因為國軍的官兵薪資裡面是由官兵向那個單位繳納納入火石團採買所以總統府的預算如果被凍結憲兵\n1148297\t1171918\t就是211營它的伙食它是無關的所以說這是剛剛那個國防委員會的委員給我們的就是說今天的業務費如果沒有解凍的話其實跟官兵沒有錢吃飯是兩回事這是剛剛國防委員會那當然這部分再請大家了解一下好 謝謝那我們下一位請陳美鳳\n","txt":"首先先請何副秘書長\n黃委員您好是何副秘你好這個因為今天早上我們考慮到就是國安會秘書長還有總統府秘書長沒有來所以我們早上就是先會議休息然後呢您在中間的時候是不是有接受媒體訪問講說我們如果今天總統府的預算案不解凍的話阿兵哥再兩星期就沒飯吃是嗎是的是你不覺得您這樣子說這個話\n這個混淆是非啊我們今天要解凍的是什麼案子業務費裡面是跟阿兵哥的伙食費相同嗎我們是當時是凍結的是阿兵哥的伙食費嗎\n他是在我們的業務費裡面的其中一項一項什麼我快速跟是廚師費嘛在聘廚師的費用你們自己報告裡面顯示聘廚師的費用對不對他接下來的確會影響到他們的三餐的膳食\n今天我們要解凍的是什麼費用是廚師的費用嘛 聘廚師的費用你們自己報告書上面寫得很清楚啊每個月差不多八萬多塊錢 聘廚師的費用這個跟伙食費不一樣啊您說話有沒有邏輯太跳躍了\n我們伙食費沒有刪 沒有凍結就算是今天沒有廚師去煮飯給阿兵哥吃還是可以對外買水餃 買便當 買麥當勞吧\n不會讓阿兵哥餓到肚子嘛對不對我們真的很擔心啦就是第一個包含水電費沒了然後他們的三餐全部其實我真的很不會煮飯我最會煮的就是維大利炸醬麵而已\n那廚師也好 他們要選材 洗材 然後還要清潔而且因為總統府跟其他的單位比較不一樣他負責國家中樞 這些元首 甚至像各個重要的官員是 何富密 您說的我都了解我也絕對是認為說 我們辛苦的憲兵弟兄們不可以讓他們餓肚子 不可以讓他們吃不好這完全都同意\n那今天的解凍說實在話也沒有什麼太大的困難因為當時本來就認為說這部分請你們要做專案報告可是我今天很不滿的是你怎麼可以對外放話說我們如果今天這個廚師這個費用不解凍阿B哥就會餓肚子兩星期\n在兩星期阿兵哥就會餓肚子啊這是錯誤的這是一個造謠跟委員報告不僅僅阿兵哥會餓到肚子我們連一些僱員都會被解僱掉大概二十幾個人所以委員如果說我講話可以再\n對的解凍這是兩回事我現在只是講說你接受媒體採訪的時候因為你又這麼有媒體經驗你怎麼會不知道說這句話的影響力是對所以我今天只是要糾正是對這只是我們今天要解凍的有許只是一個聘廚室的費用但是這跟阿兵哥的伙食費沒有關係請你不要在那邊造謠說又是我們藍白立委喔這是害阿兵哥又沒飯吃又讓他們餓肚子\n真的讓他們餓肚子的是你們啦如果說這個沒有聘到廚師或是人家廚師辭職如果廚師辭職的話是不是阿民哥就會餓肚子呢不會嘛你們還是會想辦法買外賣啊我同意文委員的說法那但是很抱歉我來質詢台備詢之前我五六日我有問一下我們第一線的這些兄弟姊妹士官兵我說你們誰會煮飯\n他們都說現在什麼時代一定要會煮飯嗎就是阿民哥的伙食是一定要要自己有廚師去煮飯嗎對不對好啦這個何鳳敏我不要再跟你討論這個細節齁那麼我只是要希望你能夠為這個事情\n至少要说明白不是砍的是伙食费而是厨师费对不对我希望待会的这个媒体也可以做更正报道就澄清了事实澄清的报道但是他们真的说他们又要战哨然后又要晒太阳他们下\n哪一個軍人弟兄不是這樣所以我們才要調高軍人待遇啊你們又反對這個民進黨的委員又反對反對給這個軍人待遇調整\n所以民進黨很多的邏輯是非常奇怪的接下來我要問的就是說有關於你們講說因為業務被刪所以可能會影響到總統府的媒體新聞的宣傳等等我在這裡我想請問這次總統他接受了幾個媒體的採訪\n是總統府有沒有付這個受訪的費用不管是閩迪選讀日本經濟新聞還有財訊這個部分就我所知沒有\n這是沒有確定沒有我們之後下一年度看的時候看到你們的經費報這其實是有像過去蔡英文總統在選舉的時候我還記得是接受博恩夜夜秀的訪問本來以為說博恩夜夜秀是單純去邀訪\n等到事後才發現這也是付費的啊所以你們確定嗎這三個節目是沒有付任何的費用給媒體那如果是這樣的話那就代表說其實媒體對於總統府的這個各項的業務啊採訪這些都是很有興趣那你們其實真的可以節省這筆費用嗎\n你們媒體新聞宣傳費可以節省起來反正這麼多的媒體都對總統府很有興趣對總統的八眼也很有興趣以後應該要多邀他們來做免費報導我覺得這一方面也是節省功效不是嗎我跟委員報告一下其實帶我長大的我自己是單親家庭啦帶我長大的是一個身心障礙的哥哥我自己的\n這個表格那我想台灣為什麼會讓全世界尊重我們因為我們在總統在說話的時候不管是聽障的朋友還是如何我們都有手語的翻譯我們不要漏了不要漏了任何一個人那此外其實台灣受到全世界的尊重跟喜愛我們有多國的翻譯都在這一筆的預算裡面\n所以另外一個部分 何富密您講的我知道但是我覺得您又岔題了這也是我很佩服您的地方我剛剛其實問就是說是總統接受媒體訪問總統府有沒有付錢沒有 那沒有就非常好那就代表說總統的發言還有總統府的公關做得很好媒體都願意來免費報導那這樣我也鼓勵你們未來可以朝這個方向去做可是我們的直播怎麼辦呢有關於這個緊急危難的部分我們的翻譯怎麼辦\n你們可以把你們要去做媒體更換費用我們也不可能長期的找志工來這樣子真的會口語的翻譯好那接下來我要這個修語老師也我也我真的不會修語這個部分的費用解凍我們待會會再談拜託謝謝支持接下來我還會再講就是說有關於緊急危難未問金的部分看起來你們是如果這個費用沒有解凍國務教費裡面這個我們現在是動多少是\n動了一千萬如果沒有動的話總統是連緊急危難的補助金慰問金都發不出來是嗎是的我跟委員報告一下請問一下總統現在一個月領多少薪水像最近的這個車禍的事件\n總統其實到現場他也不接受媒體的訪問所以總統心有餘而力不足因為他沒有那個錢可以先支出緊急危難的慰問金是嗎\n就我所知他有時候會自己掏腰包啦至少我現在沒有聽到總統有自己掏腰包付支付緊急危難慰問金的情況我們只有看到中央政府不斷地講我們如果說扣了國務機要費那總統就沒有辦法用我們的公帑去支付緊急危難的慰問金\n其實他不僅僅緊急為難 包含一些軍警我想請教一下 總統每個月現在支領是多少薪水100萬嗎70萬要精準喔 要精準喔 來 請回應\n因為我們今年有調薪3%嘛 公教人員有調薪3%那總統副總統的薪水我們依照內政部配合公教人員調薪3%他答覆給我們的是546,970台加特資費呢\n沒有特殊費啊做得好 就是國際藥費嘛 對對對就是一個月五六十萬嘛 還加年終獎金等等我們這樣講好了表達一個心意 表達一個慰問金就算是這個國際藥費暫時凍結總統連這點小錢都不願意出嗎他連這樣的一個慰問的這個慰問的這個費用 請問委員我可以回答嗎對 他可以先暫待啊\n我覺得今天講的好像是總統只要是沒有這筆錢他連一般的社會的慰問緊急危難這些都沒有辦法做我覺得這是總統的心意就算是我們現在立法委員我們沒有編任何的什麼緊急危難的這個費用我遇到了\n有需要幫忙的人需要去救助的我自己還是會用我的薪水去我會花自己的錢去救助\n所以我認為說總統府不要把這些事情拿來講說因為這個錢如果不解凍的話會影響到委員可以給我30秒我30秒快速回應其實每一年總統府都會跟我們的弱勢團體採購水果或者手工皂手工餅乾這些讓這些社福團體他們能夠被看到而且有時候募款很辛苦的時候他們可以去做到第二件事情跟委員報告\n你可以上網自己搜尋其實賴總統以前真的都把他的薪水有捐給很多不同的社福團體但是他為善不欲人知所以並沒有特別的去做PR或者是做這些公關的部分\n今天是副秘書長來我想您今天大概從早到現在大概也受到了很多的炮火其實大家不是對您不滿大家主要是對吳釗燮秘書長不滿真的是藐視國會明明按照我們現在組織法國安會就是有要到立法院來備詢而且接受立法院的監督可是你們可以這麼多次都不來坦白說看起來\n吳釗信秘書長也不太在乎國安會的這個預算到底要不要解凍那因為剛剛涉及到一個事情所以我在這裡我要講就是剛剛說政務人員待遇為什麼我們只凍十萬元\n我要講的是當時的提案是因為我們有發現國安會在政務人員待遇今年的編列費用比去年高達多出15.85%這是超出過去的這個幅度\n而且依照公務人員的加薪每年加3%3%也加不到15.85%所以我們提出來這個問題請你們做專案報告後來這個本來是凍結100萬後來談談說好吧現在這樣的話只凍了10萬元\n是這樣的緣由不是王一川委員說的他那時候還沒有進來所以我就說委員要用功啦要去質詢的時候也要先看看人家之前的提案是什麼不要在那邊亂造謠那接下來還有一個部分就是有關於國安會這邊講的說要我們對於這個諮詢研究業務費用希望國安會要提出專案報告你們現在列的這是什麼這是叫專案報告兩頁叫專案報告\n徐副秘書長您的報告的概念跟我們做報告的概念是完全不一樣這加起來可能都還不到兩千字這就叫做報告報告委員這個內容主要是\n因為當時黃國昌委員問的是我們那個經費是怎麼使用那我們就是把用人別國別還有旅行的次數把它報告出來所以你們去了哪些國家做了什麼樣研究做了什麼調查難道我們沒有權利知道嗎難道人民不應該知道說到底官會每年編了這麼多的錢是用到哪裡了\n你們怎麼知道說你們是不是到日本去看黑熊或是到什麼冰島去看極光我們不可能去冰島看極光啦所以你要告訴我你們要去哪裡我已經講了我們這裡面都有專案每個專案去哪些但是委員我跟您說去哪些國家我們沒辦法講這是因為我們國安人員出去通常是不露出的\n這是基於雙方的一個不相同的問題我也知道這可能涉及到一些機密但是你不要忘記我們立法院也可以開秘密會議我們可以不需要公開讓所有的媒體讓所有的民眾看這個直播但是我們立法院可以召開秘密會議你們也可以提密件報告在國防外交委員會都有這麼做\n所以你們沒有道理說不讓我們立法委員知道你們今天到底去哪裡開會否則我們很合理的懷疑為什麼不敢講對不對連監察院都可以說他們編列外國參旅費是到日本去看黑熊那國安會議到底你們做了些什麼\n總是可以跟我們個別委員 或是我們就裝開一個小的群組讓我們大概知道 我們也不需要知道具體名下的名所以這個叫專案報告這是一個不合格的專案報告啊所以我們只能這樣寫\n我寫的沒有不跟您講請教主席如果說今天我們認為這個專案報告裡面的內容應該要更清楚那麼國安會認為說這可能社交機密我們是不是可以開一個秘密會議呢就是我們純粹委員這邊然後這樣才能夠知道他們的專案報告內容什麼否則的話我們今天怎麼可能會讓你們這個案子過\n就預算的部分他這裡我們不是講說就他的研究諮詢業務當時的研究諮詢業務說三個月內提出專案報告並經同意嗎\n有沒有這個可能性因為我問了一下我們本委員會以前從來沒有過這樣的前例啦是沒有這樣的前例但是不代表說不可以開嘛在我們法規上面有禁止說司法法治委員會不可以開命令會議嗎對否則我覺得這未來就是一個漏洞啊\n對 國安會每年的預算送給我們審查就我們竟然沒有辦法知道說他們到底用到哪裡去了只有一個總頭頭的一個經費幾千萬上億是總頭頭 我有分區域 有分次數這我都有報告那我怎麼知道你寫的是對還是不對我們都有經過會計和審核我們不可能撒謊啊\n現在連光雲撒謊這個大法官都認為沒有處罰啦所以我根本不知道你們到底有沒有撒謊啦我們經過會計程序怎麼可能撒謊呢我想我們立法院重要的職責基本上就是監督警政機關我們也很希望了解到底業務機關做了什麼事情這個可以作為你們日後要增加預算\n或是在兵力預算的時候就我們大家就比較清楚否則的話現在以你們這樣子的一個報告方式我們根本不知道你們到底去開了什麼會議做了什麼考察然後只是說依照地區然後什麼來區分\n任何一個機關的報告都不可能這樣子寫報告委員我們不是去考察我們都是去開會沒有考察這種東西是 所以去開會會議總要有個名稱吧有名稱但是沒辦法講報告委員沒辦法在這裡講我是跟您說實話所以我才說這可能可以涉及到密會或是你們有密件的方式來提供給我們知道送密件的方式是其他委員會也都有過的不是說沒有的\n對 我們如果看了密件 未來我們洩漏機密這個是要負責任的 負刑責的每個委員都很清楚我們的法律責任是什麼可是你們不能因此而規避掉你們的責任我們沒有規避 報告委員我們沒有規避\n我可以把你們的報告我直接可以貼臉書然後請社會大眾來公平看看我們是不是同意國安會這樣的專案報告可以讓他解凍預算因為我今天耽誤太多時間雖然我還準備了很多題目不過就是謝謝昭緯給我這樣的時間就是說剛剛有提到\n秘會的部分 因為以前沒有前例啦 那今天會後的話我們會研究一下那當然法規沒有禁止 這個是我要在這邊先跟各位報告\n那那個剛剛就是有關翁委員所提到的就是火石費的部分因為剛剛我們那個國防外交委員會的委員有特別請我在這邊跟大家說明一下就是因為國軍的官兵薪資裡面是由官兵向那個單位繳納納入火石團採買所以總統府的預算如果被凍結憲兵\n就是211營它的伙食它是無關的所以說這是剛剛那個國防委員會的委員給我們的就是說今天的業務費如果沒有解凍的話其實跟官兵沒有錢吃飯是兩回事這是剛剛國防委員會那當然這部分再請大家了解一下好 謝謝那我們下一位請陳美鳳\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.028 --> 00:09.389\n首先先請何副秘書長\n\n00:19.386 --> 00:47.232\n黃委員您好是何副秘你好這個因為今天早上我們考慮到就是國安會秘書長還有總統府秘書長沒有來所以我們早上就是先會議休息然後呢您在中間的時候是不是有接受媒體訪問講說我們如果今天總統府的預算案不解凍的話阿兵哥再兩星期就沒飯吃是嗎是的是你不覺得您這樣子說這個話\n\n00:50.351 --> 00:58.043\n這個混淆是非啊我們今天要解凍的是什麼案子業務費裡面是跟阿兵哥的伙食費相同嗎我們是當時是凍結的是阿兵哥的伙食費嗎\n\n01:04.192 --> 01:08.237\n他是在我們的業務費裡面的其中一項一項什麼我快速跟是廚師費嘛在聘廚師的費用你們自己報告裡面顯示聘廚師的費用對不對他接下來的確會影響到他們的三餐的膳食\n\n01:24.455 --> 01:35.447\n今天我們要解凍的是什麼費用是廚師的費用嘛聘廚師的費用你們自己報告書上面寫得很清楚啊每個月差不多八萬多塊錢聘廚師的費用這個跟伙食費不一樣啊您說話有沒有邏輯太跳躍了\n\n01:45.216 --> 01:54.060\n我們伙食費沒有刪沒有凍結就算是今天沒有廚師去煮飯給阿兵哥吃還是可以對外買水餃買便當買麥當勞吧\n\n01:59.759 --> 02:14.974\n不會讓阿兵哥餓到肚子嘛對不對我們真的很擔心啦就是第一個包含水電費沒了然後他們的三餐全部其實我真的很不會煮飯我最會煮的就是維大利炸醬麵而已\n\n02:16.576 --> 02:36.934\n那廚師也好他們要選材洗材然後還要清潔而且因為總統府跟其他的單位比較不一樣他負責國家中樞這些元首甚至像各個重要的官員是何富密您說的我都了解我也絕對是認為說我們辛苦的憲兵弟兄們不可以讓他們餓肚子不可以讓他們吃不好這完全都同意\n\n02:44.881 --> 03:02.380\n那今天的解凍說實在話也沒有什麼太大的困難因為當時本來就認為說這部分請你們要做專案報告可是我今天很不滿的是你怎麼可以對外放話說我們如果今天這個廚師這個費用不解凍阿B哥就會餓肚子兩星期\n\n03:03.651 --> 03:08.375\n在兩星期阿兵哥就會餓肚子啊這是錯誤的這是一個造謠跟委員報告不僅僅阿兵哥會餓到肚子我們連一些僱員都會被解僱掉大概二十幾個人所以委員如果說我講話可以再\n\n03:21.485 --> 03:48.047\n對的解凍這是兩回事我現在只是講說你接受媒體採訪的時候因為你又這麼有媒體經驗你怎麼會不知道說這句話的影響力是對所以我今天只是要糾正是對這只是我們今天要解凍的有許只是一個聘廚室的費用但是這跟阿兵哥的伙食費沒有關係請你不要在那邊造謠說又是我們藍白立委喔這是害阿兵哥又沒飯吃又讓他們餓肚子\n\n03:49.488 --> 03:52.671\n真的讓他們餓肚子的是你們啦如果說這個沒有聘到廚師或是人家廚師辭職如果廚師辭職的話是不是阿民哥就會餓肚子呢不會嘛你們還是會想辦法買外賣啊我同意文委員的說法那但是很抱歉我來質詢台備詢之前我五六日我有問一下我們第一線的這些兄弟姊妹士官兵我說你們誰會煮飯\n\n04:15.885 --> 04:26.595\n他們都說現在什麼時代一定要會煮飯嗎就是阿民哥的伙食是一定要要自己有廚師去煮飯嗎對不對好啦這個何鳳敏我不要再跟你討論這個細節齁那麼我只是要希望你能夠為這個事情\n\n04:32.922 --> 04:49.360\n至少要说明白不是砍的是伙食费而是厨师费对不对我希望待会的这个媒体也可以做更正报道就澄清了事实澄清的报道但是他们真的说他们又要战哨然后又要晒太阳他们下\n\n04:50.822 --> 04:59.591\n哪一個軍人弟兄不是這樣所以我們才要調高軍人待遇啊你們又反對這個民進黨的委員又反對反對給這個軍人待遇調整\n\n05:07.110 --> 05:25.972\n所以民進黨很多的邏輯是非常奇怪的接下來我要問的就是說有關於你們講說因為業務被刪所以可能會影響到總統府的媒體新聞的宣傳等等我在這裡我想請問這次總統他接受了幾個媒體的採訪\n\n05:28.900 --> 05:39.974\n是總統府有沒有付這個受訪的費用不管是閩迪選讀日本經濟新聞還有財訊這個部分就我所知沒有\n\n05:41.295 --> 05:59.870\n這是沒有確定沒有我們之後下一年度看的時候看到你們的經費報這其實是有像過去蔡英文總統在選舉的時候我還記得是接受博恩夜夜秀的訪問本來以為說博恩夜夜秀是單純去邀訪\n\n06:00.791 --> 06:20.368\n等到事後才發現這也是付費的啊所以你們確定嗎這三個節目是沒有付任何的費用給媒體那如果是這樣的話那就代表說其實媒體對於總統府的這個各項的業務啊採訪這些都是很有興趣那你們其實真的可以節省這筆費用嗎\n\n06:21.977 --> 06:44.986\n你們媒體新聞宣傳費可以節省起來反正這麼多的媒體都對總統府很有興趣對總統的八眼也很有興趣以後應該要多邀他們來做免費報導我覺得這一方面也是節省功效不是嗎我跟委員報告一下其實帶我長大的我自己是單親家庭啦帶我長大的是一個身心障礙的哥哥我自己的\n\n06:46.651 --> 07:10.180\n這個表格那我想台灣為什麼會讓全世界尊重我們因為我們在總統在說話的時候不管是聽障的朋友還是如何我們都有手語的翻譯我們不要漏了不要漏了任何一個人那此外其實台灣受到全世界的尊重跟喜愛我們有多國的翻譯都在這一筆的預算裡面\n\n07:10.600 --> 07:35.036\n所以另外一個部分何富密您講的我知道但是我覺得您又岔題了這也是我很佩服您的地方我剛剛其實問就是說是總統接受媒體訪問總統府有沒有付錢沒有那沒有就非常好那就代表說總統的發言還有總統府的公關做得很好媒體都願意來免費報導那這樣我也鼓勵你們未來可以朝這個方向去做可是我們的直播怎麼辦呢有關於這個緊急危難的部分我們的翻譯怎麼辦\n\n07:40.740 --> 08:04.384\n你們可以把你們要去做媒體更換費用我們也不可能長期的找志工來這樣子真的會口語的翻譯好那接下來我要這個修語老師也我也我真的不會修語這個部分的費用解凍我們待會會再談拜託謝謝支持接下來我還會再講就是說有關於緊急危難未問金的部分看起來你們是如果這個費用沒有解凍國務教費裡面這個我們現在是動多少是\n\n08:10.766 --> 08:25.581\n動了一千萬如果沒有動的話總統是連緊急危難的補助金慰問金都發不出來是嗎是的我跟委員報告一下請問一下總統現在一個月領多少薪水像最近的這個車禍的事件\n\n08:27.118 --> 08:38.231\n總統其實到現場他也不接受媒體的訪問所以總統心有餘而力不足因為他沒有那個錢可以先支出緊急危難的慰問金是嗎\n\n08:41.775 --> 08:57.019\n就我所知他有時候會自己掏腰包啦至少我現在沒有聽到總統有自己掏腰包付支付緊急危難慰問金的情況我們只有看到中央政府不斷地講我們如果說扣了國務機要費那總統就沒有辦法用我們的公帑去支付緊急危難的慰問金\n\n09:05.742 --> 09:13.206\n其實他不僅僅緊急為難包含一些軍警我想請教一下總統每個月現在支領是多少薪水100萬嗎70萬要精準喔要精準喔來請回應\n\n09:24.546 --> 09:36.037\n因為我們今年有調薪3%嘛公教人員有調薪3%那總統副總統的薪水我們依照內政部配合公教人員調薪3%他答覆給我們的是546,970台加特資費呢\n\n09:39.844 --> 09:53.914\n沒有特殊費啊做得好就是國際藥費嘛對對對就是一個月五六十萬嘛還加年終獎金等等我們這樣講好了表達一個心意表達一個慰問金就算是這個國際藥費暫時凍結總統連這點小錢都不願意出嗎他連這樣的一個慰問的這個慰問的這個費用請問委員我可以回答嗎對他可以先暫待啊\n\n10:05.781 --> 10:24.266\n我覺得今天講的好像是總統只要是沒有這筆錢他連一般的社會的慰問緊急危難這些都沒有辦法做我覺得這是總統的心意就算是我們現在立法委員我們沒有編任何的什麼緊急危難的這個費用我遇到了\n\n10:25.174 --> 10:37.523\n有需要幫忙的人需要去救助的我自己還是會用我的薪水去我會花自己的錢去救助\n\n10:38.832 --> 11:06.558\n所以我認為說總統府不要把這些事情拿來講說因為這個錢如果不解凍的話會影響到委員可以給我30秒我30秒快速回應其實每一年總統府都會跟我們的弱勢團體採購水果或者手工皂手工餅乾這些讓這些社福團體他們能夠被看到而且有時候募款很辛苦的時候他們可以去做到第二件事情跟委員報告\n\n11:08.078 --> 11:22.074\n你可以上網自己搜尋其實賴總統以前真的都把他的薪水有捐給很多不同的社福團體但是他為善不欲人知所以並沒有特別的去做PR或者是做這些公關的部分\n\n11:33.389 --> 11:57.117\n今天是副秘書長來我想您今天大概從早到現在大概也受到了很多的炮火其實大家不是對您不滿大家主要是對吳釗燮秘書長不滿真的是藐視國會明明按照我們現在組織法國安會就是有要到立法院來備詢而且接受立法院的監督可是你們可以這麼多次都不來坦白說看起來\n\n11:58.357 --> 12:05.781\n吳釗信秘書長也不太在乎國安會的這個預算到底要不要解凍那因為剛剛涉及到一個事情所以我在這裡我要講就是剛剛說政務人員待遇為什麼我們只凍十萬元\n\n12:10.953 --> 12:22.464\n我要講的是當時的提案是因為我們有發現國安會在政務人員待遇今年的編列費用比去年高達多出15.85%這是超出過去的這個幅度\n\n12:28.650 --> 12:33.172\n而且依照公務人員的加薪每年加3%3%也加不到15.85%所以我們提出來這個問題請你們做專案報告後來這個本來是凍結100萬後來談談說好吧現在這樣的話只凍了10萬元\n\n12:44.076 --> 13:05.252\n是這樣的緣由不是王一川委員說的他那時候還沒有進來所以我就說委員要用功啦要去質詢的時候也要先看看人家之前的提案是什麼不要在那邊亂造謠那接下來還有一個部分就是有關於國安會這邊講的說要我們對於這個諮詢研究業務費用希望國安會要提出專案報告你們現在列的這是什麼這是叫專案報告兩頁叫專案報告\n\n13:13.106 --> 13:22.134\n徐副秘書長您的報告的概念跟我們做報告的概念是完全不一樣這加起來可能都還不到兩千字這就叫做報告報告委員這個內容主要是\n\n13:28.629 --> 13:33.310\n因為當時黃國昌委員問的是我們那個經費是怎麼使用那我們就是把用人別國別還有旅行的次數把它報告出來所以你們去了哪些國家做了什麼樣研究做了什麼調查難道我們沒有權利知道嗎難道人民不應該知道說到底官會每年編了這麼多的錢是用到哪裡了\n\n13:52.534 --> 14:17.058\n你們怎麼知道說你們是不是到日本去看黑熊或是到什麼冰島去看極光我們不可能去冰島看極光啦所以你要告訴我你們要去哪裡我已經講了我們這裡面都有專案每個專案去哪些但是委員我跟您說去哪些國家我們沒辦法講這是因為我們國安人員出去通常是不露出的\n\n14:17.618 --> 14:24.981\n這是基於雙方的一個不相同的問題我也知道這可能涉及到一些機密但是你不要忘記我們立法院也可以開秘密會議我們可以不需要公開讓所有的媒體讓所有的民眾看這個直播但是我們立法院可以召開秘密會議你們也可以提密件報告在國防外交委員會都有這麼做\n\n14:42.648 --> 15:02.569\n所以你們沒有道理說不讓我們立法委員知道你們今天到底去哪裡開會否則我們很合理的懷疑為什麼不敢講對不對連監察院都可以說他們編列外國參旅費是到日本去看黑熊那國安會議到底你們做了些什麼\n\n15:03.871 --> 15:15.487\n總是可以跟我們個別委員或是我們就裝開一個小的群組讓我們大概知道我們也不需要知道具體名下的名所以這個叫專案報告這是一個不合格的專案報告啊所以我們只能這樣寫\n\n15:20.580 --> 15:43.485\n我寫的沒有不跟您講請教主席如果說今天我們認為這個專案報告裡面的內容應該要更清楚那麼國安會認為說這可能社交機密我們是不是可以開一個秘密會議呢就是我們純粹委員這邊然後這樣才能夠知道他們的專案報告內容什麼否則的話我們今天怎麼可能會讓你們這個案子過\n\n15:46.206 --> 15:49.131\n就預算的部分他這裡我們不是講說就他的研究諮詢業務當時的研究諮詢業務說三個月內提出專案報告並經同意嗎\n\n16:01.448 --> 16:18.842\n有沒有這個可能性因為我問了一下我們本委員會以前從來沒有過這樣的前例啦是沒有這樣的前例但是不代表說不可以開嘛在我們法規上面有禁止說司法法治委員會不可以開命令會議嗎對否則我覺得這未來就是一個漏洞啊\n\n16:19.963 --> 16:39.225\n對國安會每年的預算送給我們審查就我們竟然沒有辦法知道說他們到底用到哪裡去了只有一個總頭頭的一個經費幾千萬上億是總頭頭我有分區域有分次數這我都有報告那我怎麼知道你寫的是對還是不對我們都有經過會計和審核我們不可能撒謊啊\n\n16:41.475 --> 17:06.855\n現在連光雲撒謊這個大法官都認為沒有處罰啦所以我根本不知道你們到底有沒有撒謊啦我們經過會計程序怎麼可能撒謊呢我想我們立法院重要的職責基本上就是監督警政機關我們也很希望了解到底業務機關做了什麼事情這個可以作為你們日後要增加預算\n\n17:07.375 --> 17:21.432\n或是在兵力預算的時候就我們大家就比較清楚否則的話現在以你們這樣子的一個報告方式我們根本不知道你們到底去開了什麼會議做了什麼考察然後只是說依照地區然後什麼來區分\n\n17:23.354 --> 17:36.703\n任何一個機關的報告都不可能這樣子寫報告委員我們不是去考察我們都是去開會沒有考察這種東西是所以去開會會議總要有個名稱吧有名稱但是沒辦法講報告委員沒辦法在這裡講我是跟您說實話所以我才說這可能可以涉及到密會或是你們有密件的方式來提供給我們知道送密件的方式是其他委員會也都有過的不是說沒有的\n\n17:52.293 --> 18:05.351\n對我們如果看了密件未來我們洩漏機密這個是要負責任的負刑責的每個委員都很清楚我們的法律責任是什麼可是你們不能因此而規避掉你們的責任我們沒有規避報告委員我們沒有規避\n\n18:06.482 --> 18:24.633\n我可以把你們的報告我直接可以貼臉書然後請社會大眾來公平看看我們是不是同意國安會這樣的專案報告可以讓他解凍預算因為我今天耽誤太多時間雖然我還準備了很多題目不過就是謝謝昭緯給我這樣的時間就是說剛剛有提到\n\n18:29.016 --> 18:37.633\n秘會的部分因為以前沒有前例啦那今天會後的話我們會研究一下那當然法規沒有禁止這個是我要在這邊先跟各位報告\n\n18:40.765 --> 19:05.836\n那那個剛剛就是有關翁委員所提到的就是火石費的部分因為剛剛我們那個國防外交委員會的委員有特別請我在這邊跟大家說明一下就是因為國軍的官兵薪資裡面是由官兵向那個單位繳納納入火石團採買所以總統府的預算如果被凍結憲兵\n\n19:08.297 --> 19:31.918\n就是211營它的伙食它是無關的所以說這是剛剛那個國防委員會的委員給我們的就是說今天的業務費如果沒有解凍的話其實跟官兵沒有錢吃飯是兩回事這是剛剛國防委員會那當然這部分再請大家了解一下好謝謝那我們下一位請陳美鳳\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.028,"end":9.389,"text":"首先先請何副秘書長"},{"start":19.386,"end":47.232,"text":"黃委員您好是何副秘你好這個因為今天早上我們考慮到就是國安會秘書長還有總統府秘書長沒有來所以我們早上就是先會議休息然後呢您在中間的時候是不是有接受媒體訪問講說我們如果今天總統府的預算案不解凍的話阿兵哥再兩星期就沒飯吃是嗎是的是你不覺得您這樣子說這個話"},{"start":50.351,"end":58.043,"text":"這個混淆是非啊我們今天要解凍的是什麼案子業務費裡面是跟阿兵哥的伙食費相同嗎我們是當時是凍結的是阿兵哥的伙食費嗎"},{"start":64.192,"end":68.237,"text":"他是在我們的業務費裡面的其中一項一項什麼我快速跟是廚師費嘛在聘廚師的費用你們自己報告裡面顯示聘廚師的費用對不對他接下來的確會影響到他們的三餐的膳食"},{"start":84.455,"end":95.447,"text":"今天我們要解凍的是什麼費用是廚師的費用嘛 聘廚師的費用你們自己報告書上面寫得很清楚啊每個月差不多八萬多塊錢 聘廚師的費用這個跟伙食費不一樣啊您說話有沒有邏輯太跳躍了"},{"start":105.216,"end":114.06,"text":"我們伙食費沒有刪 沒有凍結就算是今天沒有廚師去煮飯給阿兵哥吃還是可以對外買水餃 買便當 買麥當勞吧"},{"start":119.759,"end":134.974,"text":"不會讓阿兵哥餓到肚子嘛對不對我們真的很擔心啦就是第一個包含水電費沒了然後他們的三餐全部其實我真的很不會煮飯我最會煮的就是維大利炸醬麵而已"},{"start":136.576,"end":156.934,"text":"那廚師也好 他們要選材 洗材 然後還要清潔而且因為總統府跟其他的單位比較不一樣他負責國家中樞 這些元首 甚至像各個重要的官員是 何富密 您說的我都了解我也絕對是認為說 我們辛苦的憲兵弟兄們不可以讓他們餓肚子 不可以讓他們吃不好這完全都同意"},{"start":164.881,"end":182.38,"text":"那今天的解凍說實在話也沒有什麼太大的困難因為當時本來就認為說這部分請你們要做專案報告可是我今天很不滿的是你怎麼可以對外放話說我們如果今天這個廚師這個費用不解凍阿B哥就會餓肚子兩星期"},{"start":183.651,"end":188.375,"text":"在兩星期阿兵哥就會餓肚子啊這是錯誤的這是一個造謠跟委員報告不僅僅阿兵哥會餓到肚子我們連一些僱員都會被解僱掉大概二十幾個人所以委員如果說我講話可以再"},{"start":201.485,"end":228.047,"text":"對的解凍這是兩回事我現在只是講說你接受媒體採訪的時候因為你又這麼有媒體經驗你怎麼會不知道說這句話的影響力是對所以我今天只是要糾正是對這只是我們今天要解凍的有許只是一個聘廚室的費用但是這跟阿兵哥的伙食費沒有關係請你不要在那邊造謠說又是我們藍白立委喔這是害阿兵哥又沒飯吃又讓他們餓肚子"},{"start":229.488,"end":232.671,"text":"真的讓他們餓肚子的是你們啦如果說這個沒有聘到廚師或是人家廚師辭職如果廚師辭職的話是不是阿民哥就會餓肚子呢不會嘛你們還是會想辦法買外賣啊我同意文委員的說法那但是很抱歉我來質詢台備詢之前我五六日我有問一下我們第一線的這些兄弟姊妹士官兵我說你們誰會煮飯"},{"start":255.885,"end":266.595,"text":"他們都說現在什麼時代一定要會煮飯嗎就是阿民哥的伙食是一定要要自己有廚師去煮飯嗎對不對好啦這個何鳳敏我不要再跟你討論這個細節齁那麼我只是要希望你能夠為這個事情"},{"start":272.922,"end":289.36,"text":"至少要说明白不是砍的是伙食费而是厨师费对不对我希望待会的这个媒体也可以做更正报道就澄清了事实澄清的报道但是他们真的说他们又要战哨然后又要晒太阳他们下"},{"start":290.822,"end":299.591,"text":"哪一個軍人弟兄不是這樣所以我們才要調高軍人待遇啊你們又反對這個民進黨的委員又反對反對給這個軍人待遇調整"},{"start":307.11,"end":325.972,"text":"所以民進黨很多的邏輯是非常奇怪的接下來我要問的就是說有關於你們講說因為業務被刪所以可能會影響到總統府的媒體新聞的宣傳等等我在這裡我想請問這次總統他接受了幾個媒體的採訪"},{"start":328.9,"end":339.974,"text":"是總統府有沒有付這個受訪的費用不管是閩迪選讀日本經濟新聞還有財訊這個部分就我所知沒有"},{"start":341.295,"end":359.87,"text":"這是沒有確定沒有我們之後下一年度看的時候看到你們的經費報這其實是有像過去蔡英文總統在選舉的時候我還記得是接受博恩夜夜秀的訪問本來以為說博恩夜夜秀是單純去邀訪"},{"start":360.791,"end":380.368,"text":"等到事後才發現這也是付費的啊所以你們確定嗎這三個節目是沒有付任何的費用給媒體那如果是這樣的話那就代表說其實媒體對於總統府的這個各項的業務啊採訪這些都是很有興趣那你們其實真的可以節省這筆費用嗎"},{"start":381.977,"end":404.986,"text":"你們媒體新聞宣傳費可以節省起來反正這麼多的媒體都對總統府很有興趣對總統的八眼也很有興趣以後應該要多邀他們來做免費報導我覺得這一方面也是節省功效不是嗎我跟委員報告一下其實帶我長大的我自己是單親家庭啦帶我長大的是一個身心障礙的哥哥我自己的"},{"start":406.651,"end":430.18,"text":"這個表格那我想台灣為什麼會讓全世界尊重我們因為我們在總統在說話的時候不管是聽障的朋友還是如何我們都有手語的翻譯我們不要漏了不要漏了任何一個人那此外其實台灣受到全世界的尊重跟喜愛我們有多國的翻譯都在這一筆的預算裡面"},{"start":430.6,"end":455.036,"text":"所以另外一個部分 何富密您講的我知道但是我覺得您又岔題了這也是我很佩服您的地方我剛剛其實問就是說是總統接受媒體訪問總統府有沒有付錢沒有 那沒有就非常好那就代表說總統的發言還有總統府的公關做得很好媒體都願意來免費報導那這樣我也鼓勵你們未來可以朝這個方向去做可是我們的直播怎麼辦呢有關於這個緊急危難的部分我們的翻譯怎麼辦"},{"start":460.74,"end":484.384,"text":"你們可以把你們要去做媒體更換費用我們也不可能長期的找志工來這樣子真的會口語的翻譯好那接下來我要這個修語老師也我也我真的不會修語這個部分的費用解凍我們待會會再談拜託謝謝支持接下來我還會再講就是說有關於緊急危難未問金的部分看起來你們是如果這個費用沒有解凍國務教費裡面這個我們現在是動多少是"},{"start":490.766,"end":505.581,"text":"動了一千萬如果沒有動的話總統是連緊急危難的補助金慰問金都發不出來是嗎是的我跟委員報告一下請問一下總統現在一個月領多少薪水像最近的這個車禍的事件"},{"start":507.118,"end":518.231,"text":"總統其實到現場他也不接受媒體的訪問所以總統心有餘而力不足因為他沒有那個錢可以先支出緊急危難的慰問金是嗎"},{"start":521.775,"end":537.019,"text":"就我所知他有時候會自己掏腰包啦至少我現在沒有聽到總統有自己掏腰包付支付緊急危難慰問金的情況我們只有看到中央政府不斷地講我們如果說扣了國務機要費那總統就沒有辦法用我們的公帑去支付緊急危難的慰問金"},{"start":545.742,"end":553.206,"text":"其實他不僅僅緊急為難 包含一些軍警我想請教一下 總統每個月現在支領是多少薪水100萬嗎70萬要精準喔 要精準喔 來 請回應"},{"start":564.546,"end":576.037,"text":"因為我們今年有調薪3%嘛 公教人員有調薪3%那總統副總統的薪水我們依照內政部配合公教人員調薪3%他答覆給我們的是546,970台加特資費呢"},{"start":579.844,"end":593.914,"text":"沒有特殊費啊做得好 就是國際藥費嘛 對對對就是一個月五六十萬嘛 還加年終獎金等等我們這樣講好了表達一個心意 表達一個慰問金就算是這個國際藥費暫時凍結總統連這點小錢都不願意出嗎他連這樣的一個慰問的這個慰問的這個費用 請問委員我可以回答嗎對 他可以先暫待啊"},{"start":605.781,"end":624.266,"text":"我覺得今天講的好像是總統只要是沒有這筆錢他連一般的社會的慰問緊急危難這些都沒有辦法做我覺得這是總統的心意就算是我們現在立法委員我們沒有編任何的什麼緊急危難的這個費用我遇到了"},{"start":625.174,"end":637.523,"text":"有需要幫忙的人需要去救助的我自己還是會用我的薪水去我會花自己的錢去救助"},{"start":638.832,"end":666.558,"text":"所以我認為說總統府不要把這些事情拿來講說因為這個錢如果不解凍的話會影響到委員可以給我30秒我30秒快速回應其實每一年總統府都會跟我們的弱勢團體採購水果或者手工皂手工餅乾這些讓這些社福團體他們能夠被看到而且有時候募款很辛苦的時候他們可以去做到第二件事情跟委員報告"},{"start":668.078,"end":682.074,"text":"你可以上網自己搜尋其實賴總統以前真的都把他的薪水有捐給很多不同的社福團體但是他為善不欲人知所以並沒有特別的去做PR或者是做這些公關的部分"},{"start":693.389,"end":717.117,"text":"今天是副秘書長來我想您今天大概從早到現在大概也受到了很多的炮火其實大家不是對您不滿大家主要是對吳釗燮秘書長不滿真的是藐視國會明明按照我們現在組織法國安會就是有要到立法院來備詢而且接受立法院的監督可是你們可以這麼多次都不來坦白說看起來"},{"start":718.357,"end":725.781,"text":"吳釗信秘書長也不太在乎國安會的這個預算到底要不要解凍那因為剛剛涉及到一個事情所以我在這裡我要講就是剛剛說政務人員待遇為什麼我們只凍十萬元"},{"start":730.953,"end":742.464,"text":"我要講的是當時的提案是因為我們有發現國安會在政務人員待遇今年的編列費用比去年高達多出15.85%這是超出過去的這個幅度"},{"start":748.65,"end":753.172,"text":"而且依照公務人員的加薪每年加3%3%也加不到15.85%所以我們提出來這個問題請你們做專案報告後來這個本來是凍結100萬後來談談說好吧現在這樣的話只凍了10萬元"},{"start":764.076,"end":785.252,"text":"是這樣的緣由不是王一川委員說的他那時候還沒有進來所以我就說委員要用功啦要去質詢的時候也要先看看人家之前的提案是什麼不要在那邊亂造謠那接下來還有一個部分就是有關於國安會這邊講的說要我們對於這個諮詢研究業務費用希望國安會要提出專案報告你們現在列的這是什麼這是叫專案報告兩頁叫專案報告"},{"start":793.106,"end":802.134,"text":"徐副秘書長您的報告的概念跟我們做報告的概念是完全不一樣這加起來可能都還不到兩千字這就叫做報告報告委員這個內容主要是"},{"start":808.629,"end":813.31,"text":"因為當時黃國昌委員問的是我們那個經費是怎麼使用那我們就是把用人別國別還有旅行的次數把它報告出來所以你們去了哪些國家做了什麼樣研究做了什麼調查難道我們沒有權利知道嗎難道人民不應該知道說到底官會每年編了這麼多的錢是用到哪裡了"},{"start":832.534,"end":857.058,"text":"你們怎麼知道說你們是不是到日本去看黑熊或是到什麼冰島去看極光我們不可能去冰島看極光啦所以你要告訴我你們要去哪裡我已經講了我們這裡面都有專案每個專案去哪些但是委員我跟您說去哪些國家我們沒辦法講這是因為我們國安人員出去通常是不露出的"},{"start":857.618,"end":864.981,"text":"這是基於雙方的一個不相同的問題我也知道這可能涉及到一些機密但是你不要忘記我們立法院也可以開秘密會議我們可以不需要公開讓所有的媒體讓所有的民眾看這個直播但是我們立法院可以召開秘密會議你們也可以提密件報告在國防外交委員會都有這麼做"},{"start":882.648,"end":902.569,"text":"所以你們沒有道理說不讓我們立法委員知道你們今天到底去哪裡開會否則我們很合理的懷疑為什麼不敢講對不對連監察院都可以說他們編列外國參旅費是到日本去看黑熊那國安會議到底你們做了些什麼"},{"start":903.871,"end":915.487,"text":"總是可以跟我們個別委員 或是我們就裝開一個小的群組讓我們大概知道 我們也不需要知道具體名下的名所以這個叫專案報告這是一個不合格的專案報告啊所以我們只能這樣寫"},{"start":920.58,"end":943.485,"text":"我寫的沒有不跟您講請教主席如果說今天我們認為這個專案報告裡面的內容應該要更清楚那麼國安會認為說這可能社交機密我們是不是可以開一個秘密會議呢就是我們純粹委員這邊然後這樣才能夠知道他們的專案報告內容什麼否則的話我們今天怎麼可能會讓你們這個案子過"},{"start":946.206,"end":949.131,"text":"就預算的部分他這裡我們不是講說就他的研究諮詢業務當時的研究諮詢業務說三個月內提出專案報告並經同意嗎"},{"start":961.448,"end":978.842,"text":"有沒有這個可能性因為我問了一下我們本委員會以前從來沒有過這樣的前例啦是沒有這樣的前例但是不代表說不可以開嘛在我們法規上面有禁止說司法法治委員會不可以開命令會議嗎對否則我覺得這未來就是一個漏洞啊"},{"start":979.963,"end":999.225,"text":"對 國安會每年的預算送給我們審查就我們竟然沒有辦法知道說他們到底用到哪裡去了只有一個總頭頭的一個經費幾千萬上億是總頭頭 我有分區域 有分次數這我都有報告那我怎麼知道你寫的是對還是不對我們都有經過會計和審核我們不可能撒謊啊"},{"start":1001.475,"end":1026.855,"text":"現在連光雲撒謊這個大法官都認為沒有處罰啦所以我根本不知道你們到底有沒有撒謊啦我們經過會計程序怎麼可能撒謊呢我想我們立法院重要的職責基本上就是監督警政機關我們也很希望了解到底業務機關做了什麼事情這個可以作為你們日後要增加預算"},{"start":1027.375,"end":1041.432,"text":"或是在兵力預算的時候就我們大家就比較清楚否則的話現在以你們這樣子的一個報告方式我們根本不知道你們到底去開了什麼會議做了什麼考察然後只是說依照地區然後什麼來區分"},{"start":1043.354,"end":1056.703,"text":"任何一個機關的報告都不可能這樣子寫報告委員我們不是去考察我們都是去開會沒有考察這種東西是 所以去開會會議總要有個名稱吧有名稱但是沒辦法講報告委員沒辦法在這裡講我是跟您說實話所以我才說這可能可以涉及到密會或是你們有密件的方式來提供給我們知道送密件的方式是其他委員會也都有過的不是說沒有的"},{"start":1072.293,"end":1085.351,"text":"對 我們如果看了密件 未來我們洩漏機密這個是要負責任的 負刑責的每個委員都很清楚我們的法律責任是什麼可是你們不能因此而規避掉你們的責任我們沒有規避 報告委員我們沒有規避"},{"start":1086.482,"end":1104.633,"text":"我可以把你們的報告我直接可以貼臉書然後請社會大眾來公平看看我們是不是同意國安會這樣的專案報告可以讓他解凍預算因為我今天耽誤太多時間雖然我還準備了很多題目不過就是謝謝昭緯給我這樣的時間就是說剛剛有提到"},{"start":1109.016,"end":1117.633,"text":"秘會的部分 因為以前沒有前例啦 那今天會後的話我們會研究一下那當然法規沒有禁止 這個是我要在這邊先跟各位報告"},{"start":1120.765,"end":1145.836,"text":"那那個剛剛就是有關翁委員所提到的就是火石費的部分因為剛剛我們那個國防外交委員會的委員有特別請我在這邊跟大家說明一下就是因為國軍的官兵薪資裡面是由官兵向那個單位繳納納入火石團採買所以總統府的預算如果被凍結憲兵"},{"start":1148.297,"end":1171.918,"text":"就是211營它的伙食它是無關的所以說這是剛剛那個國防委員會的委員給我們的就是說今天的業務費如果沒有解凍的話其實跟官兵沒有錢吃飯是兩回事這是剛剛國防委員會那當然這部分再請大家了解一下好 謝謝那我們下一位請陳美鳳"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":592,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（15時22分）首先先請何副秘書長。"],["主席：何副秘。"],["何副秘書長志偉：翁委員您好。"],["翁委員曉玲：何副秘你好。因為今天早上我們考慮到國安會秘書長及總統府秘書長沒有來，所以早上會議先休息，然後您在中間的時候是不是有接受媒體訪問說如果今天總統府的預算案不解凍的話，阿兵哥再兩星期就沒飯吃，是嗎？"],["何副秘書長志偉：是的。"],["翁委員曉玲：您不覺得您說這個話，這是在混淆是非啊！我們今天要解凍的是什麼案子？"],["何副秘書長志偉：業務費，還有……"],["翁委員曉玲：業務費，業務費與阿兵哥的伙食費相同嗎？我們當時凍結的是阿兵哥的伙食費嗎？"],["何副秘書長志偉：它是我們業務費裡面的其中一項。"],["翁委員曉玲：一項什麼？"],["何副秘書長志偉：我快速跟委員……"],["翁委員曉玲：是廚師費嘛！是聘廚師的費用，你們自己報告裡面寫的是聘廚師的費用，對不對？"],["何副秘書長志偉：它接下來的確會影響到他們三餐的膳食，那我們這邊……"],["翁委員曉玲：不是，我們這樣講，今天要解凍的是什麼費用？是廚師的費用嘛！聘廚師的費用，你們自己報告書上面寫得很清楚啊！每個月差不多八萬多塊錢，聘廚師的費用，這個跟伙食費不一樣啊！您說話是不是邏輯太跳躍了？我們伙食費沒有刪，沒有凍結，就算今天沒有廚師煮飯給阿兵哥吃，還是可以對外買水餃、買便當、買麥當勞吧！不會讓阿兵哥餓到肚子嘛！對不對？"],["何副秘書長志偉：我們真的很擔心啦！第一個，包含水電費沒了，然後他們的三餐，其實我真的很不會煮飯，我最會煮的就是維力炸醬麵而已，那廚師他們要選材、洗材還要清潔，而且總統府與其他的單位比較不一樣，他負責國家中樞這些元首，甚至是各個重要官員的進出，所以……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，何副秘，您說的我都瞭解，我也絕對是認為……"],["何副秘書長志偉：而且超過百人以上。"],["翁委員曉玲：辛苦的憲兵弟兄們不可以讓他們餓肚子，不可以讓他們吃不好，這完全都同意。"],["何副秘書長志偉：謝謝委員的支持。"],["翁委員曉玲：今天的解凍說實在話，也沒有什麼太大的困難……"],["何副秘書長志偉：再拜託委員。"],["翁委員曉玲：因為當時本來就認為這個部分要請你們做專案報告，可是我今天很不滿的是，你怎麼可以對外放話說如果今天這個廚師費用不解凍，阿兵哥再兩星期就會餓肚子？這是錯誤的，這個是造謠！"],["何副秘書長志偉：跟委員報告，不僅僅阿兵哥會餓肚子，我們連一些雇員都會被解僱掉，大概二十幾個人，所以委員如果說我講話可以再……"],["翁委員曉玲：這個跟業務費的解凍是兩回事，我現在只是講你接受媒體採訪的時候，以您這麼有媒體經驗，你怎麼會不知道說這句話的影響力？"],["何副秘書長志偉：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以我現在就是要糾正。"],["何副秘書長志偉：是，謝謝委員指教。"],["翁委員曉玲：我們今天要解凍的也許只是一個聘廚師的費用，但是這與阿兵哥的伙食費沒有關係，請你不要在那邊造謠說又是我們藍白立委害阿兵哥沒飯吃，讓他們餓肚子，真的讓他們餓肚子的是你們啦！如果沒有聘到廚師或是人家廚師辭職的話，是不是阿兵哥就會餓肚子呢？不會嘛！你們還是會想辦法外買啊！對不對？"],["何副秘書長志偉：我同意翁委員的說法，但是很抱歉，我來質詢臺備詢之前，在五、六、日我有問一下這些第一線的兄弟姊妹士官兵，我說你們誰會煮飯？他們都說不可能。"],["翁委員曉玲：現在什麼時代，一定要會煮飯嗎？阿兵哥的伙食一定要自己有廚師去煮飯嗎？對不對？好啦！副秘，我不要再跟你討論細節。"],["何副秘書長志偉：再多拜託，他們說……"],["翁委員曉玲：我只是希望你對這件事情至少要說明白，不是砍伙食費，而是廚師費，對不對？"],["何副秘書長志偉：謝謝委員指教。"],["翁委員曉玲：我希望待會媒體也可以做更正報導，就是澄清啦！事實澄清的報導。"],["何副秘書長志偉：但是他們真的說他們又要站哨，又要曬太陽，下了站崗之後……"],["翁委員曉玲：哪一個軍人弟兄不是這樣？所以我們才要調高軍人待遇啊！"],["何副秘書長志偉：感謝委員支持。"],["翁委員曉玲：那你們又反對，對不對？"],["何副秘書長志偉：再拜託、再拜託。"],["翁委員曉玲：民進黨的委員又反對給軍人待遇調整，所以民進黨很多的邏輯是非常奇怪的。"],["何副秘書長志偉：委員，我們的待遇已經有調整囉！已經有調整了。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來我要問的是，你們說因為刪業務費，所以可能會影響到總統府的媒體新聞宣傳等等，在這裡我想請問，這次總統他接受了幾個媒體的採訪，總統府有沒有付受訪的費用？包括敏迪選讀、日本經濟新聞及財訊。"],["何副秘書長志偉：這個部分就我所知，沒有。"],["翁委員曉玲：這次沒有。"],["何副秘書長志偉：對，是的，沒有。"],["翁委員曉玲：確定沒有？"],["何副秘書長志偉：確定沒有。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，不要我們下個年度看了之後，看到你們的經費報這個，其實是有。像過去蔡英文總統在選舉的時候，我還記得是接受「博恩夜夜秀」的訪問，本來以為「博恩夜夜秀」是單純去邀訪，等到事後才發現這也是付費的啊！所以你們確定嘛？這3個節目沒有付任何費用給媒體。"],["何副秘書長志偉：就我所知，確定沒有。"],["翁委員曉玲：如果是這樣的話，那就代表媒體對於總統府各項業務的採訪都很有興趣，其實你們真的可以節省這筆費用啊！你們媒體新聞宣傳費可以節省起來，反正這麼多媒體都對總統府很有興趣，對總統的發言也很有興趣，以後應該要多邀他們來做免費報導，我覺得這一方面也是節省公帑，不是嗎？"],["何副秘書長志偉：我跟委員報告一下，其實我自己是單親家庭啦！帶我長大的是一個身心障礙的哥哥，我自己的表哥，我想臺灣為什麼會讓全世界尊重我們？因為總統在說話的時候，不管是聽障的朋友還是如何，我們都有手語的翻譯，我們不要漏了任何一個人。此外，其實臺灣受到全世界的尊重與喜愛，我們有多國的翻譯都在這一筆預算裡面。另外一個部分，向委員……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，何副秘，您講的我知道……"],["何副秘書長志偉：最後一個……"],["翁委員曉玲：但是我覺得您又岔題了，這也是我很佩服您的地方。"],["何副秘書長志偉：不好意思。"],["翁委員曉玲：我剛剛只是問說總統接受媒體訪問，總統府有沒有付錢？"],["何副秘書長志偉：沒有。"],["翁委員曉玲：沒有，非常好，那就代表總統的發言還有總統府的公關做得很好，媒體都願意來免費報導，我也鼓勵你們未來可以朝這個方向去做。"],["何副秘書長志偉：可是我們的直播怎麼辦？"],["翁委員曉玲：好，接下來我要問有關於緊急危難的部分……"],["何副秘書長志偉：我們的翻譯怎麼辦？"],["翁委員曉玲：你們可以把媒體公關的費用挪去做口語的翻譯。"],["何副秘書長志偉：我們也不可能長期地找志工來，這樣子真的會……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，接下來我要再……"],["何副秘書長志偉：拜託，像手語老師，我真的不會手語。"],["翁委員曉玲：這個部分的費用解凍，我們待會會再談。"],["何副秘書長志偉：拜託，謝謝支持。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來我要講有關於緊急危難慰問金的部分，如果這個費用沒有解凍，國務機要費現在是凍了1,000萬，如果沒有解凍的話，總統連緊急危難慰問金都發不出來，是嗎？"],["何副秘書長志偉：是的，我跟委員報告一下，像最近的……"],["翁委員曉玲：請問總統現在一個月領多少薪水？"],["何副秘書長志偉：像最近的車禍事件，其實總統到現場他也不接受媒體的訪問，他也很希望……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，所以總統是心有餘而力不足，因為他沒有錢可以先支出緊急危難的慰問金，是嗎？"],["何副秘書長志偉：就我所知，他有時候會自己掏腰包啦！但是這是國家給予總統……"],["翁委員曉玲：至少我們現在沒有聽到總統有自己掏腰包支付緊急危難慰問金的情況。"],["何副秘書長志偉：我們中華民國，我們臺灣的這一位總統……"],["翁委員曉玲：我們只有看到總統府不斷地講，如果扣了國務機要費，總統就沒有辦法用公帑去支付緊急危難慰問金。"],["何副秘書長志偉：其實不僅僅是緊急危難，包含一些軍、警……"],["翁委員曉玲：我想請教一下，總統現在每個月支領多少薪水？100萬嗎？還是70萬？"],["何副秘書長志偉：來，請回應，要精準。"],["黃處長新雛：因為我們今年有調薪3%嘛！公教人員有調薪3%，那總統、副總統的薪水我們依照內政部，配合公教人員也調薪3%，它答復給我們的是54萬6,970元。"],["翁委員曉玲：加上特支費呢？"],["黃處長新雛：沒有特支費。"],["翁委員曉玲：就是國務機要費嘛！"],["黃處長新雛：對。"],["翁委員曉玲：就是一個月50、60萬，加上年終獎金等等。我們這樣講好了，表達心意的一個慰問金，就算國務機要費暫時凍結，總統連這點小錢都不願意出嗎？他連這樣一個慰問的費用……"],["何副秘書長志偉：請問委員，我可以回答嗎？"],["翁委員曉玲：他可以先暫墊啊！對不對？我覺得今天講的好像是總統只要沒有這筆錢，他連一般的社會慰問、緊急危難這些都沒有辦法做，我覺得這是總統的心意，就算現在我們立法委員沒有編任何緊急危難的費用，我遇到了需要幫忙、需要救助的人，我還是會用我的薪水，會花自己的錢去救助，所以我認為總統府不要把這些事情拿來講說這個錢如果不解凍的話會影響到你們。"],["何副秘書長志偉：委員，可以給我30秒嗎？"],["翁委員曉玲：好，接下來我還要……"],["何副秘書長志偉：拜託，我用30秒快速回應。"],["翁委員曉玲：好。"],["何副秘書長志偉：其實每一年總統府都會向弱勢團體採購水果或是手工皂、手工餅乾，讓這些社福團體能夠被看到，而且有時候募款很辛苦的時候，他們可以去做到。","第二件事情跟委員報告，你可以上網自行搜尋，其實賴總統以前真的有把他的薪水捐給很多不同的社福團體，但是他為善不欲人知，所以並沒有特別地去做PR或者是做這些公關的部分。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝何副秘，這個部分我曉得了，因為我時間有限，接下來我要很快請教一下國安會。"],["何副秘書長志偉：謝謝。"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：今天是副秘書長來，您從早上到現在大概也受到很多的砲火，其實大家不是對您不滿，大家主要是對吳釗燮秘書長不滿，真的是藐視國會。明明按照我們現在的組織法，國安會就是要到立法院來備詢，而且接受立法院的監督，可是你們可以這麼多次都不來，坦白說，看起來吳釗燮秘書長也不太在乎國安會的預算到底要不要解凍。"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：應該不是這樣。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，因為剛剛涉及到一件事情，所以在這裡我要講，政務人員待遇為什麼我們只凍10萬元？我要講的是，當時的提案是因為我們發現國安會今年在政務人員待遇編列的費用比去年多出15.85%，這是超出過去的幅度，而且依照公務人員的加薪，每年加3%、3%也加不到15.85%，所以我們提出這個問題請你們做專案報告，本來是凍結100萬，後來才說好吧！既然這樣的話只凍了10萬元，是這樣的原由，不是王義川委員說的，他那時候還沒有進來，所以我就說委員要用功啦！要去質詢的時候，也要先看看人家之前的提案是什麼，不要在那邊亂造謠！","接下來還有一個部分，有關於國安會的諮詢研究業務費用，我們希望國安會要提出專案報告，你們現在列的這是什麼？這叫專案報告，兩頁叫專案報告？徐副秘書長，您對報告的概念跟我們做報告的概念是完全不一樣啊！這加起來可能都還不到2,000字，這就叫做報告？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：報告委員，這個內容主要是因為當時黃國昌委員問我們那個經費是怎麼使用，我們就是用人別、國別還有旅行的次數把它報告出來。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，所以你們去了哪些國家、做了什麼樣的研究、做了什麼調查，難道我們沒有權利知道嗎？難道人民不應該知道國安會每年編這麼多錢到底是用在哪裡？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：不是不能知道，我已經在講，我們這個報告裡面……"],["翁委員曉玲：我們怎麼知道你們是不是又到日本去看黑熊或是到冰島去看極光？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：我們不可能去冰島看極光啦！"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你要告訴我你們去哪裡，否則會被我們懷疑。"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：我已經講了，我們這裡面都有專案，但是委員我跟您說，每個專案去哪些國家我們沒辦法講，這是因為我們國安人員出去通常是不露出的，這是基於雙方的互相理解。"],["翁委員曉玲：副秘書長，這樣說好了，我也知道這可能涉及到一些機密，但是你不要忘記……"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：所以他去哪裡、跟什麼人接觸，我們沒辦法講。"],["翁委員曉玲：立法院也可以開秘密會議，我們不需要公開讓所有媒體、所有民眾看這個直播，但是立法院可以召開秘密會議，你們也可以提密件報告，在國防外交委員會都有這麼做，所以你們沒有道理不讓立法委員知道你們今天到底去哪裡開會，否則我們很合理地懷疑為什麼不敢講，對不對？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：不是不敢講，是沒辦法講，我們沒有不敢講。"],["翁委員曉玲：連監察院都可以說他們編列外國差旅費是到日本去看黑熊，你們國安會到底做了些什麼，總是可以向個別委員或是我們就召開一個小的group，讓我們大概知道，我們也不需要知道得鉅細靡遺。"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：但是當時叫我們提專案報告，我們……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以這個叫專案報告？這是一個不合格的專案報告啊！"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：不是，因為當時是公開的委員會，所以我們只能這樣寫，沒有不跟您講。"],["翁委員曉玲：請教主席，如果今天我們認為專案報告裡面的內容應該要更清楚，那麼國安會認為這可能涉及到機密，我們是不是可以開一個秘密會議？就是我們純粹委員這邊，這樣才能夠知道他們專案報告的內容是什麼，否則的話，我們今天怎麼可能會讓這個案子過？"],["主席：就預算的部分，是不是？"],["翁委員曉玲：對，就預算的部分，當時我們不是講說就它的研究諮詢業務，3個月內提出專案報告並經同意嘛！有沒有這個可能性？"],["主席：翁委員，因為我問了一下，本委員會以前從來沒有過這樣的前例。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，沒有前例，但是不代表不可以開嘛！在我們法規上面有禁止司法及法制委員會不可以開秘密會議嗎？否則我覺得這未來就是一個漏洞啊！對不對？國安會每年的預算送給我們審查，結果我們竟然沒有辦法知道他們到底用到哪裡去了，只有一個總total的經費，幾千萬、上億！"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：不是總total，我有分區域，有分次數，這個我都有報告。"],["翁委員曉玲：我怎麼知道你寫的是對還是不對？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：我們都有經過會計的審核，我們不可能撒謊啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：我跟你講，現在連官員撒謊，大法官都認為沒有處罰啦！所以我根本不知道你們到底有沒有撒謊啦！"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：我們經過會計程序，怎麼可能撒謊呢？"],["翁委員曉玲：是這樣子的，副秘書長，我們立法院重要的職責基本上就是監督行政機關……"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：我沒有不向立法院報告，報告委員。"],["翁委員曉玲：那麼我們也很希望瞭解到底業務機關做了什麼事情，這個可以作為你們日後要增加預算或是在編列預算的時候我們大家就比較清楚，否則的話，現在以你們這樣子的報告方式，我們根本不知道你們到底去開了什麼會議、做了什麼考察，然後只是說依照地區，依照什麼來區分，任何一個機關的報告都不可能這樣子寫！"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：報告委員，我們不是去考察，我們都是去開會，沒有考察這種東西，都是去開會。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，所以你們去開會，會議總要有一個名稱吧？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：有名稱，但是沒辦法講。"],["翁委員曉玲：連個會議名稱都沒有！"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：報告委員，沒辦法在這裡講，我是跟您說實話。"],["翁委員曉玲：對，所以我才說這可能涉及到密會或是你們用密件的方式提供給我們知道，對不對？送密件的方式，這是其他委員會也都有過的，不是說沒有。我們如果看了密件，未來我們洩漏機密，這個是要負責任的，要負刑責的！每個委員都很清楚我們的法律責任是什麼，可是你們不能因此而規避掉你們的責任。"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：報告委員，我們沒有規避。我之所以會這樣，有我的原因嘛！"],["翁委員曉玲：我今天可以把你們的報告……"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：我理解！"],["翁委員曉玲：直接貼臉書，然後請社會大眾來公評，看看我們是不是同意國安會這樣的專案報告可以讓它解凍預算。因為我今天耽誤太多時間，雖然我還準備了很多題目，不過就是謝謝召委給我這樣的時間。"],["主席：剛剛有提到秘密會議的部分，因為以前沒有前例，今天會後我們會研究一下。當然法規沒有禁止，這個是我要在這邊先跟各位報告的。"],["翁委員曉玲：……送密件吧？"],["主席：是。有關翁委員所提到的伙食費的部分，剛剛我們外交及國防委員會的委員有特別請我在這邊跟大家說明一下。因為國軍的官兵薪資裡面是由官兵向單位繳納納入伙食團採買，所以總統府的預算如果被凍結，憲兵211營的伙食是無關的。這是剛剛國防委員會的委員給我們的，就是說今天的業務費如果沒有解凍的話，其實跟官兵沒有錢吃飯是兩回事。當然這部分再請大家了解一下，謝謝。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝召委。"],["主席：下一位請陳培瑜委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王鴻薇","羅智強","吳思瑤","王義川","翁曉玲","莊瑞雄","陳培瑜","沈發惠"],"page_start":259,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145202_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府預算凍結項目共 5案；二、處理114年度中央政府總\n預算關於國家安全會議預算凍結項目共4案","agenda_id":"1145202_00003"}}}