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\"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 803.404, \"end\": 803.604, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 803.604, \"end\": 803.825, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 803.825, \"end\": 803.985, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 803.985, \"end\": 804.585, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 804.585, \"end\": 804.765, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 804.765, \"end\": 804.866, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 804.866, \"end\": 805.066, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 805.066, \"end\": 805.446, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 805.446, \"end\": 806.087, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 806.087, \"end\": 806.267, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 806.267, \"end\": 806.567, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 806.567, \"end\": 806.788, \"score\": 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\"end\": 840.693, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 840.693, \"end\": 840.713, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 840.713, \"end\": 840.793, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 840.793, \"end\": 840.813, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 840.813, \"end\": 840.833, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 840.833, \"end\": 840.853, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,571 --> 00:00:24,597\n好謝謝主席喔語重心長的嘆息因為剛剛聽到了非常多不實的訊息我想要逐一來跟國安會還有和複密這邊澄清謝謝所以要請兩位一起兩位複密署長給我給我給我好好\n\n2\n00:00:30,816 --> 00:00:53,203\n兩位辛苦了我想我們今天之所以還要在這邊今天已經五月底了我們還要在這邊認真來討論預算解凍案事出必有因那我想這個因就是來自於在去年二輪預算提出來的時候藍白共同提出三四千案我們認為極度不合理的預算甚至沒有專業考慮沒有專業的討論\n\n3\n00:00:56,064 --> 00:01:11,854\n通常在本委我們要提出預算的時候一定是基於我們在這整個委員會對相關機關部會業務的理解我們提出一個立法委員該行的職權我們進行監督進行討論所以我們透過預算這是一個手段跟方法對嗎兩位\n\n4\n00:01:13,671 --> 00:01:28,678\n那過去像這樣子的監督機制有遇到像今年這麼大的困難嗎可不可以分享一下那也許國安會這邊比較資深你要不要分享一下今年算不算是一種史無前例的荒謬的亂象\n\n5\n00:01:30,714 --> 00:01:45,185\n今年相對於過去若干年是比較困難比較困難好您講得非常保守我直接說是荒謬跟亂象我過去在教育文化委員會我們每一個人基於自己的專業跟理解我們在第一輪負責任的提出我們的預算案然後我們認真的討論\n\n6\n00:01:48,727 --> 00:02:08,657\n最後藍白還有民進黨會做出默契也就是朝野對於相關預算跟業務的推廣是有一定的默契到了二輪提案的時候通常各個委員辦公室都是因為可能時間來不及啦或者是可能之前沒有想到大家再補題這是過往的案例那當然我們來立法院的資歷比較淺才來兩年但是這兩年或者是我們參考過去非常多優秀專業的立法委員的提案我們發現比較是這個狀況\n\n7\n00:02:17,902 --> 00:02:32,370\n所以我才說雖然我才來兩年但是我認為目前在今年也就是他們去年藍白提出來荒謬二輪的超過三四千案的預算提案是荒謬的這是我個人的見解剛剛還有非常多委員也問了我覺得很荒謬的問題第一個他請問何富密說我們的賴總統到三峽的現場去勘栽的時候沒有接受訪問然後第一時間表達關心我們很謝謝賴總統做出這個動作\n\n8\n00:02:47,219 --> 00:02:53,920\n但是他剛剛一直問說為什麼總統沒有捐款總統的薪水有多少然後總統為什麼沒有捐款\n\n9\n00:02:55,379 --> 00:03:24,064\n我不知道這樣的問題意義何在那如果真的要認真追究捐款這件事情我想我就先問馬英九總統任內當時他標榜要達到633他還說如果沒有達到633他要捐出薪水的一半但事後他自己承認並沒有捐出來那是不是我們也可以問這個事情那當然這個事過境遷也不關何複銘您的事情如果真的要追究賴清德總統有沒有捐款呢網路上有人幫忙整理我今天就來分享一兩個\n\n10\n00:03:25,814 --> 00:03:33,562\n以我以關心兒少的角度來看2018年2月9號台南家福中心頒助獎學金賴清的總統當時捐助了獎學金超過500萬其中有100萬是選舉補助款2018年3月12號學甲伯利恆藻寮教育中心落成賴清的總統捐了500萬也是來自選舉補助款\n\n11\n00:03:47,156 --> 00:04:07,596\n2021年4月5號捐助台鐵事故傷亡者當時蔡英文總統賴清德副總統蘇貞昌院長捐一個月所得2021年10月15號寄助陳忠誠災戶蔡英文總統賴清德副總統陳其邁等捐出一個月的薪水所得這只是我剛剛舉的其中一些些例子\n\n12\n00:04:08,357 --> 00:04:16,042\n我並不是要請何鳳敏把這個訊息帶回去請總統再捐款我想在委員在質詢台上必須要負責任對自己的言論負責而我認為剛剛有非常多在野黨的委員一再的造謠抹黑那導致於我們必須要浪費我們自己的質詢時間但我認為正確資訊傳達是非常非常重要的\n\n13\n00:04:30,590 --> 00:04:41,096\n每一個人要不要捐款是出自於自己的決定自己的選擇但在公開的質詢台上造謠賴清德總統沒有捐款這件事情我認為大可不必喔\n\n14\n00:04:41,954 --> 00:05:06,219\n好那我們來看一下如果要來看相關預算我認為我們不如實質的來看你們在這麼困難的預算執行情況下還是有非常多事情需要你們在業務推廣上不斷前進不是嗎你們並沒有因為如此就不去上班然後或者是坐在那邊什麼事都沒做不是嗎對那我們來看一下而且還有很多國人關心的問題我想我要先謝謝你們一再的努力\n\n15\n00:05:10,066 --> 00:05:21,201\n而且我要再次強調今天這一切的亂象預算的亂象今天之所以還要站在這邊真的是因為莫名其妙荒謬的二輪預算提案不問專業好第一個\n\n16\n00:05:24,844 --> 00:05:40,340\n你看每次發生事情你們就會被叫來罵對不對像我今天沒有要罵你們啦我要跟你們討論喔終極人士在中小學門口直播這件事情我們非常謝謝警政署在第一時間他們去調查相關個案那他給了我一個說法說\n\n17\n00:05:41,821 --> 00:06:09,788\n違反個資法違反妨害秘密罪還有違反兒少權法非常謝謝警政署的同仁在預算也有困難的情況下依然努力工作那我想要請問國安會就國安的角度我們可不可以告訴國人在相關的疑慮情況下我們應該要注意什麼樣的事情因為確實在社群裡面不管是家長不管是老師其實很多大人都非常的擔心那這個在\n\n18\n00:06:10,808 --> 00:06:22,295\n警政署這段問題已經解決了但是如果我們回到我們去看中國的很多社群你按相關關鍵字滿滿的影片我們真的還是很擔心我想要請國安會給我們一些說明好不好\n\n19\n00:06:23,477 --> 00:06:44,618\n報告委員我想這樣的事情我們當然是非常關切我想除了因為警政單位他們主要是接受報案我覺得我們國人自己要提高警覺包括家長跟學校方面如果看到甚至一般的民眾我有朋友今天就去檢舉\n\n20\n00:06:45,999 --> 00:06:55,285\n他昨天就在學校門口看到可疑的人是他們還坐在學校附近的人行道上面甚至今天可能都還在進行\n\n21\n00:07:01,869 --> 00:07:31,034\n你覺得可以檢舉我們可以向派出所先檢舉是是我的朋友檢舉以後那我們國安會這邊那個警察都非常負責的問得很詳細是所以我相信我們警政單位已經非常嚴肅的面對這件事情好那接下來就國安的角度我們還要注意什麼事情我想我們國安局以及其他的那個相關國安的單位他們會彼此交換訊息然後深入的調查這群人的背景\n\n22\n00:07:32,659 --> 00:07:50,654\n我想背景的調查當然很重要那另外一個新聞我們來看一下中國人橡皮艇登台事件頻繁國安破口如何解目前為止到底他是居住在台灣的中國人還是他真的是駕著這個橡皮艇成功登台的目前都還是一個問號但是確實我們還是擔心相關的國安破口\n\n23\n00:07:55,478 --> 00:08:15,172\n那甚至我們也擔心這個模式在金門跟馬祖在近期在台灣的數量也越來越多有沒有可能是認知作戰還有所謂的揮帶襲擾那在金門跟馬祖因為過往金門跟馬祖相對於中國或者是他們的立法委員對於中國是相對友善的可能對於相關的認知作戰或所謂的揮帶襲擾他們不見得跟我們有一樣程度的認知但我認為這件事情都還是值得討論\n\n24\n00:08:22,657 --> 00:08:27,984\n可是回到台灣本島我們來看這件事情國安單位可不可以給我們一些建議或者是你們後續將會如何處理相關的事情\n\n25\n00:08:31,771 --> 00:08:53,171\n這個問題的話分兩個部分首先不論是本島還是外島我們國安單位都認為我們都把它看作是灰色洗腦的一部分這個已經非常確定那當然海巡署跟海委會也表示我們的這個偵測系統可能是有些不足\n\n26\n00:08:53,812 --> 00:09:04,063\n那我知道海委會已經向行政院提出海空一體295億的一個預算裡面有強化各方面次世代雷達紅外線熱像儀環島監視系統等等\n\n27\n00:09:09,809 --> 00:09:23,345\n這個強調要強化我們ISR系統的這個各種各樣的設備但是可能是需要一點時間來建構但是我們已經充分認識到我們要強化我們的海岸巡防的系統\n\n28\n00:09:24,566 --> 00:09:45,913\n這個部分謝謝您的回覆我想後續國人的關心國人的焦慮或者是立法院這邊監督都會持續非常非常重要雖然你們在預算很困難的情況下最後我想跟你分享一個是從我們辦公室收集到的另外一個我們認為有高度國安疑慮的個案但我們很擔心它日後會成為通案來往下\n\n29\n00:09:47,193 --> 00:10:11,838\n在2022年當時呢直蘭高雄鋼鐵人發現有港資那當時陸委會做了非常積極的處理因為我們認為有國安疑慮那這個部分當然要給2022年的陸委會高度的肯定但是我想要跟兩位分享目前中國在全世界對於運動的滲透其實最簡單的第一步就是開始買球隊來下一張開始買球隊例如說海外足球隊\n\n30\n00:10:15,979 --> 00:10:32,067\n非常有名的英超、西甲、普甲、易甲都有甚至在NBA裡面也已經買球隊了買球隊之後可以做非常非常多的事情我今天時間有限不再贅述下一張但是回到台灣我們收到了一個陳情在2024年我們辦公室已經積極處理了\n\n31\n00:10:34,628 --> 00:11:02,668\n也就是台中的國立台灣體育運動大學有一個學校的球隊他們可以參加台灣以及足球聯賽他們把這個參賽資格轉讓給一間公司叫峰會體育有限公司看起來這個公司如果你去經濟部網站上查看不太出來什麼問題但是往下看我們跟教育部當然已經討論過教育部相關業務也在進行當中下一張那我們來看一下\n\n32\n00:11:04,656 --> 00:11:22,569\n目前呢國外的俱樂部或者是參賽權利的收購或是轉讓在民間其實是所謂的商業行為可是中華足協足球聯賽是FIFA它是亞足聯系統賽事重點在後面這句話這些球隊它可以代表台灣參加國際賽\n\n33\n00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:37,959\n可是如果這些球隊背後的經營主或者是擁有這個球隊的老闆甚至這個球隊他就只是學校的球隊的參賽權他竟然背後是中資跟港資這有沒有國安疑慮\n\n34\n00:11:39,687 --> 00:11:54,101\n好我們往下看再下一張好再下一張我要說的是其實不是只有足球包含排球在台灣由單項協會所主辦的企業聯賽也都可以代表台灣參加國際組織的體育賽事代表台灣出隊\n\n35\n00:11:59,827 --> 00:12:14,441\n所以我想要請教一下就國安的角度來說當然後續這家公司我們再去追查發現所謂峰會體育有限公司它的負責人是另外一家公司的董事跟發言人而這一家公司背後就是中資跟港資\n\n36\n00:12:15,322 --> 00:12:40,674\n所以如果我們連連看會發現他確實有所謂的國安疑慮而這個球隊目前的參賽權已經賣出去了當然教育部那邊或者是監察院這邊他們都有相關調查在進行但是我要把相關這個個案跟國安會討論如果未來在台灣也開始發生中國在海外買球隊的狀況他開始進到台灣來做這個操作你們怎麼看\n\n37\n00:12:42,970 --> 00:13:08,369\n報告委員這件事情當然是很嚴重尤其是代表我們國家去參加國際比賽那如果背後有中資港資我想當然是對我們國家利益不好所以這件事情我想我們會帶回去跟行政院包括教育部還有行政院這邊一起來協調開會以及國安局我們來研究一下應該怎麼樣去防堵這樣的事情發生\n\n38\n00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:30,211\n好我也跟您說它除了代表台灣出事案之外它其實有另外一個疑慮假設我背後是中資港資我在台灣甕有一個球隊我有了這個球隊的名義我可能就可以去投標或是承包某些場地的經營權我舉一個例子剛剛這個學校是在台中而台中在明後年就會落成一個足球園區\n\n39\n00:13:31,252 --> 00:13:50,545\n而這個足球園區如果真的被這個球隊拿去做經營做場地的經營跟空間我們很難想像背後中資跟港資會如何透過這個身份做出一些滲透跟我們認為灰色襲擾的部分所以我才要把這個看起來是個案但很有可能未來變成通案的狀況跟國安會先行討論好嗎\n\n40\n00:13:53,287 --> 00:14:00,853\n謝謝委員指教好謝謝你們當然希望今天後續的預算解凍跟討論可以順利的進行讓你們可以回去好好上班好謝謝兩位謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9571\t24597\t好 謝謝主席喔 語重心長的嘆息因為剛剛聽到了非常多不實的訊息我想要逐一來跟國安會還有和複密這邊澄清 謝謝所以要請兩位一起兩位複密署長給我給我給我好好\n30816\t53203\t兩位辛苦了我想我們今天之所以還要在這邊今天已經五月底了我們還要在這邊認真來討論預算解凍案事出必有因那我想這個因就是來自於在去年二輪預算提出來的時候藍白共同提出三四千案我們認為極度不合理的預算甚至沒有專業考慮沒有專業的討論\n56064\t71854\t通常在本委我們要提出預算的時候一定是基於我們在這整個委員會對相關機關部會業務的理解我們提出一個立法委員該行的職權我們進行監督進行討論所以我們透過預算這是一個手段跟方法對嗎兩位\n73671\t88678\t那過去像這樣子的監督機制有遇到像今年這麼大的困難嗎可不可以分享一下那也許國安會這邊比較資深你要不要分享一下今年算不算是一種史無前例的荒謬的亂象\n90714\t105185\t今年相對於過去若干年是比較困難比較困難好 您講得非常保守我直接說是荒謬跟亂象我過去在教育文化委員會我們每一個人基於自己的專業跟理解我們在第一輪負責任的提出我們的預算案然後我們認真的討論\n108727\t128657\t最後藍白還有民進黨會做出默契也就是朝野對於相關預算跟業務的推廣是有一定的默契到了二輪提案的時候通常各個委員辦公室都是因為可能時間來不及啦或者是可能之前沒有想到大家再補題這是過往的案例那當然我們來立法院的資歷比較淺才來兩年但是這兩年或者是我們參考過去非常多優秀專業的立法委員的提案我們發現比較是這個狀況\n137902\t152370\t所以我才說雖然我才來兩年但是我認為目前在今年也就是他們去年藍白提出來荒謬二輪的超過三四千案的預算提案是荒謬的這是我個人的見解剛剛還有非常多委員也問了我覺得很荒謬的問題第一個他請問何富密說我們的賴總統到三峽的現場去勘栽的時候沒有接受訪問然後第一時間表達關心我們很謝謝賴總統做出這個動作\n167219\t173920\t但是他剛剛一直問說為什麼總統沒有捐款總統的薪水有多少然後總統為什麼沒有捐款\n175379\t204064\t我不知道這樣的問題意義何在那如果真的要認真追究捐款這件事情我想我就先問馬英九總統任內當時他標榜要達到633他還說如果沒有達到633他要捐出薪水的一半但事後他自己承認並沒有捐出來那是不是我們也可以問這個事情那當然這個事過境遷也不關何複銘您的事情如果真的要追究賴清德總統有沒有捐款呢網路上有人幫忙整理我今天就來分享一兩個\n205814\t213562\t以我以關心兒少的角度來看2018年2月9號台南家福中心頒助獎學金賴清的總統當時捐助了獎學金超過500萬其中有100萬是選舉補助款2018年3月12號學甲伯利恆藻寮教育中心落成賴清的總統捐了500萬也是來自選舉補助款\n227156\t247596\t2021年4月5號捐助台鐵事故傷亡者當時蔡英文總統賴清德副總統蘇貞昌院長捐一個月所得2021年10月15號寄助陳忠誠災戶蔡英文總統賴清德副總統陳其邁等捐出一個月的薪水所得這只是我剛剛舉的其中一些些例子\n248357\t256042\t我並不是要請何鳳敏把這個訊息帶回去請總統再捐款我想在委員在質詢台上必須要負責任對自己的言論負責而我認為剛剛有非常多在野黨的委員一再的造謠抹黑那導致於我們必須要浪費我們自己的質詢時間但我認為正確資訊傳達是非常非常重要的\n270590\t281096\t每一個人要不要捐款是出自於自己的決定自己的選擇但在公開的質詢台上造謠賴清德總統沒有捐款這件事情我認為大可不必喔\n281954\t306219\t好 那我們來看一下如果要來看相關預算我認為我們不如實質的來看你們在這麼困難的預算執行情況下還是有非常多事情需要你們在業務推廣上不斷前進不是嗎你們並沒有因為如此就不去上班然後或者是坐在那邊什麼事都沒做不是嗎對 那我們來看一下而且還有很多國人關心的問題我想我要先謝謝你們一再的努力\n310066\t321201\t而且我要再次強調今天這一切的亂象預算的亂象今天之所以還要站在這邊真的是因為莫名其妙荒謬的二輪預算提案不問專業好 第一個\n324844\t340340\t你看每次發生事情你們就會被叫來罵對不對像我今天沒有要罵你們啦我要跟你們討論喔終極人士在中小學門口直播這件事情我們非常謝謝警政署在第一時間他們去調查相關個案那他給了我一個說法說\n341821\t369788\t違反個資法 違反妨害秘密罪還有違反兒少權法非常謝謝警政署的同仁在預算也有困難的情況下依然努力工作那我想要請問國安會就國安的角度我們可不可以告訴國人在相關的疑慮情況下我們應該要注意什麼樣的事情因為確實在社群裡面不管是家長不管是老師其實很多大人都非常的擔心那這個在\n370808\t382295\t警政署這段問題已經解決了但是如果我們回到我們去看中國的很多社群你按相關關鍵字滿滿的影片我們真的還是很擔心我想要請國安會給我們一些說明好不好\n383477\t404618\t報告委員 我想這樣的事情我們當然是非常關切我想除了因為警政單位他們主要是接受報案我覺得我們國人自己要提高警覺包括家長跟學校方面如果看到甚至一般的民眾我有朋友今天就去檢舉\n405999\t415285\t他昨天就在學校門口 看到可疑的人是 他們還坐在學校附近的人行道上面甚至今天可能都還在進行\n421869\t451034\t你覺得可以檢舉 我們可以向派出所先檢舉是 是我的朋友檢舉以後 那我們國安會這邊那個警察都非常負責的問得很詳細 是所以我相信我們警政單位已經非常嚴肅的面對這件事情好 那接下來就國安的角度我們還要注意什麼事情我想我們國安局以及其他的那個相關國安的單位他們會彼此交換訊息然後深入的調查這群人的背景\n452659\t470654\t我想背景的調查當然很重要那另外一個新聞我們來看一下中國人橡皮艇登台事件頻繁國安破口如何解目前為止到底他是居住在台灣的中國人還是他真的是駕著這個橡皮艇成功登台的目前都還是一個問號但是確實我們還是擔心相關的國安破口\n475478\t495172\t那甚至我們也擔心這個模式在金門跟馬祖在近期在台灣的數量也越來越多有沒有可能是認知作戰還有所謂的揮帶襲擾那在金門跟馬祖因為過往金門跟馬祖相對於中國或者是他們的立法委員對於中國是相對友善的可能對於相關的認知作戰或所謂的揮帶襲擾他們不見得跟我們有一樣程度的認知但我認為這件事情都還是值得討論\n502657\t507984\t可是回到台灣本島我們來看這件事情國安單位可不可以給我們一些建議或者是你們後續將會如何處理相關的事情\n511771\t533171\t這個問題的話分兩個部分首先不論是本島還是外島我們國安單位都認為我們都把它看作是灰色洗腦的一部分這個已經非常確定那當然海巡署跟海委會也表示我們的這個偵測系統可能是有些不足\n533812\t544063\t那我知道海委會已經向行政院提出海空一體295億的一個預算裡面有強化各方面次世代雷達紅外線熱像儀環島監視系統等等\n549809\t563345\t這個強調要強化我們ISR系統的這個各種各樣的設備但是可能是需要一點時間來建構但是我們已經充分認識到我們要強化我們的海岸巡防的系統\n564566\t585913\t這個部分謝謝您的回覆我想後續國人的關心國人的焦慮或者是立法院這邊監督都會持續非常非常重要雖然你們在預算很困難的情況下最後我想跟你分享一個是從我們辦公室收集到的另外一個我們認為有高度國安疑慮的個案但我們很擔心它日後會成為通案來往下\n587193\t611838\t在2022年當時呢直蘭高雄鋼鐵人發現有港資那當時陸委會做了非常積極的處理因為我們認為有國安疑慮那這個部分當然要給2022年的陸委會高度的肯定但是我想要跟兩位分享目前中國在全世界對於運動的滲透其實最簡單的第一步就是開始買球隊來下一張開始買球隊例如說海外足球隊\n615979\t632067\t非常有名的英超、西甲、普甲、易甲都有甚至在NBA裡面也已經買球隊了買球隊之後可以做非常非常多的事情我今天時間有限不再贅述下一張但是回到台灣我們收到了一個陳情在2024年我們辦公室已經積極處理了\n634628\t662668\t也就是台中的國立台灣體育運動大學有一個學校的球隊他們可以參加台灣以及足球聯賽他們把這個參賽資格轉讓給一間公司叫峰會體育有限公司看起來這個公司如果你去經濟部網站上查看不太出來什麼問題但是往下看我們跟教育部當然已經討論過教育部相關業務也在進行當中下一張那我們來看一下\n664656\t682569\t目前呢國外的俱樂部或者是參賽權利的收購或是轉讓在民間其實是所謂的商業行為可是中華足協足球聯賽是FIFA它是亞足聯系統賽事重點在後面這句話這些球隊它可以代表台灣參加國際賽\n684790\t697959\t可是如果這些球隊背後的經營主或者是擁有這個球隊的老闆甚至這個球隊他就只是學校的球隊的參賽權他竟然背後是中資跟港資這有沒有國安疑慮\n699687\t714101\t好 我們往下看 再下一張好 再下一張我要說的是 其實不是只有足球 包含排球在台灣由單項協會所主辦的企業聯賽也都可以代表台灣參加國際組織的體育賽事代表台灣出隊\n719827\t734441\t所以我想要請教一下就國安的角度來說當然後續這家公司我們再去追查發現所謂峰會體育有限公司它的負責人是另外一家公司的董事跟發言人而這一家公司背後就是中資跟港資\n735322\t760674\t所以如果我們連連看會發現他確實有所謂的國安疑慮而這個球隊目前的參賽權已經賣出去了當然教育部那邊或者是監察院這邊他們都有相關調查在進行但是我要把相關這個個案跟國安會討論如果未來在台灣也開始發生中國在海外買球隊的狀況他開始進到台灣來做這個操作你們怎麼看\n762970\t788369\t報告委員這件事情當然是很嚴重尤其是代表我們國家去參加國際比賽那如果背後有中資港資我想當然是對我們國家利益不好所以這件事情我想我們會帶回去跟行政院包括教育部還有行政院這邊一起來協調開會以及國安局我們來研究一下應該怎麼樣去防堵這樣的事情發生\n788629\t810211\t好 我也跟您說 它除了代表台灣出事案之外 它其實有另外一個疑慮假設我背後是中資港資 我在台灣甕有一個球隊我有了這個球隊的名義 我可能就可以去投標或是承包某些場地的經營權我舉一個例子 剛剛這個學校是在台中 而台中在明後年就會落成一個足球園區\n811252\t830545\t而這個足球園區如果真的被這個球隊拿去做經營做場地的經營跟空間我們很難想像背後中資跟港資會如何透過這個身份做出一些滲透跟我們認為灰色襲擾的部分所以我才要把這個看起來是個案但很有可能未來變成通案的狀況跟國安會先行討論好嗎\n833287\t840853\t謝謝委員指教好謝謝你們當然希望今天後續的預算解凍跟討論可以順利的進行讓你們可以回去好好上班好謝謝兩位謝謝主席\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席喔 語重心長的嘆息因為剛剛聽到了非常多不實的訊息我想要逐一來跟國安會還有和複密這邊澄清 謝謝所以要請兩位一起兩位複密署長給我給我給我好好\n兩位辛苦了我想我們今天之所以還要在這邊今天已經五月底了我們還要在這邊認真來討論預算解凍案事出必有因那我想這個因就是來自於在去年二輪預算提出來的時候藍白共同提出三四千案我們認為極度不合理的預算甚至沒有專業考慮沒有專業的討論\n通常在本委我們要提出預算的時候一定是基於我們在這整個委員會對相關機關部會業務的理解我們提出一個立法委員該行的職權我們進行監督進行討論所以我們透過預算這是一個手段跟方法對嗎兩位\n那過去像這樣子的監督機制有遇到像今年這麼大的困難嗎可不可以分享一下那也許國安會這邊比較資深你要不要分享一下今年算不算是一種史無前例的荒謬的亂象\n今年相對於過去若干年是比較困難比較困難好 您講得非常保守我直接說是荒謬跟亂象我過去在教育文化委員會我們每一個人基於自己的專業跟理解我們在第一輪負責任的提出我們的預算案然後我們認真的討論\n最後藍白還有民進黨會做出默契也就是朝野對於相關預算跟業務的推廣是有一定的默契到了二輪提案的時候通常各個委員辦公室都是因為可能時間來不及啦或者是可能之前沒有想到大家再補題這是過往的案例那當然我們來立法院的資歷比較淺才來兩年但是這兩年或者是我們參考過去非常多優秀專業的立法委員的提案我們發現比較是這個狀況\n所以我才說雖然我才來兩年但是我認為目前在今年也就是他們去年藍白提出來荒謬二輪的超過三四千案的預算提案是荒謬的這是我個人的見解剛剛還有非常多委員也問了我覺得很荒謬的問題第一個他請問何富密說我們的賴總統到三峽的現場去勘栽的時候沒有接受訪問然後第一時間表達關心我們很謝謝賴總統做出這個動作\n但是他剛剛一直問說為什麼總統沒有捐款總統的薪水有多少然後總統為什麼沒有捐款\n我不知道這樣的問題意義何在那如果真的要認真追究捐款這件事情我想我就先問馬英九總統任內當時他標榜要達到633他還說如果沒有達到633他要捐出薪水的一半但事後他自己承認並沒有捐出來那是不是我們也可以問這個事情那當然這個事過境遷也不關何複銘您的事情如果真的要追究賴清德總統有沒有捐款呢網路上有人幫忙整理我今天就來分享一兩個\n以我以關心兒少的角度來看2018年2月9號台南家福中心頒助獎學金賴清的總統當時捐助了獎學金超過500萬其中有100萬是選舉補助款2018年3月12號學甲伯利恆藻寮教育中心落成賴清的總統捐了500萬也是來自選舉補助款\n2021年4月5號捐助台鐵事故傷亡者當時蔡英文總統賴清德副總統蘇貞昌院長捐一個月所得2021年10月15號寄助陳忠誠災戶蔡英文總統賴清德副總統陳其邁等捐出一個月的薪水所得這只是我剛剛舉的其中一些些例子\n我並不是要請何鳳敏把這個訊息帶回去請總統再捐款我想在委員在質詢台上必須要負責任對自己的言論負責而我認為剛剛有非常多在野黨的委員一再的造謠抹黑那導致於我們必須要浪費我們自己的質詢時間但我認為正確資訊傳達是非常非常重要的\n每一個人要不要捐款是出自於自己的決定自己的選擇但在公開的質詢台上造謠賴清德總統沒有捐款這件事情我認為大可不必喔\n好 那我們來看一下如果要來看相關預算我認為我們不如實質的來看你們在這麼困難的預算執行情況下還是有非常多事情需要你們在業務推廣上不斷前進不是嗎你們並沒有因為如此就不去上班然後或者是坐在那邊什麼事都沒做不是嗎對 那我們來看一下而且還有很多國人關心的問題我想我要先謝謝你們一再的努力\n而且我要再次強調今天這一切的亂象預算的亂象今天之所以還要站在這邊真的是因為莫名其妙荒謬的二輪預算提案不問專業好 第一個\n你看每次發生事情你們就會被叫來罵對不對像我今天沒有要罵你們啦我要跟你們討論喔終極人士在中小學門口直播這件事情我們非常謝謝警政署在第一時間他們去調查相關個案那他給了我一個說法說\n違反個資法 違反妨害秘密罪還有違反兒少權法非常謝謝警政署的同仁在預算也有困難的情況下依然努力工作那我想要請問國安會就國安的角度我們可不可以告訴國人在相關的疑慮情況下我們應該要注意什麼樣的事情因為確實在社群裡面不管是家長不管是老師其實很多大人都非常的擔心那這個在\n警政署這段問題已經解決了但是如果我們回到我們去看中國的很多社群你按相關關鍵字滿滿的影片我們真的還是很擔心我想要請國安會給我們一些說明好不好\n報告委員 我想這樣的事情我們當然是非常關切我想除了因為警政單位他們主要是接受報案我覺得我們國人自己要提高警覺包括家長跟學校方面如果看到甚至一般的民眾我有朋友今天就去檢舉\n他昨天就在學校門口 看到可疑的人是 他們還坐在學校附近的人行道上面甚至今天可能都還在進行\n你覺得可以檢舉 我們可以向派出所先檢舉是 是我的朋友檢舉以後 那我們國安會這邊那個警察都非常負責的問得很詳細 是所以我相信我們警政單位已經非常嚴肅的面對這件事情好 那接下來就國安的角度我們還要注意什麼事情我想我們國安局以及其他的那個相關國安的單位他們會彼此交換訊息然後深入的調查這群人的背景\n我想背景的調查當然很重要那另外一個新聞我們來看一下中國人橡皮艇登台事件頻繁國安破口如何解目前為止到底他是居住在台灣的中國人還是他真的是駕著這個橡皮艇成功登台的目前都還是一個問號但是確實我們還是擔心相關的國安破口\n那甚至我們也擔心這個模式在金門跟馬祖在近期在台灣的數量也越來越多有沒有可能是認知作戰還有所謂的揮帶襲擾那在金門跟馬祖因為過往金門跟馬祖相對於中國或者是他們的立法委員對於中國是相對友善的可能對於相關的認知作戰或所謂的揮帶襲擾他們不見得跟我們有一樣程度的認知但我認為這件事情都還是值得討論\n可是回到台灣本島我們來看這件事情國安單位可不可以給我們一些建議或者是你們後續將會如何處理相關的事情\n這個問題的話分兩個部分首先不論是本島還是外島我們國安單位都認為我們都把它看作是灰色洗腦的一部分這個已經非常確定那當然海巡署跟海委會也表示我們的這個偵測系統可能是有些不足\n那我知道海委會已經向行政院提出海空一體295億的一個預算裡面有強化各方面次世代雷達紅外線熱像儀環島監視系統等等\n這個強調要強化我們ISR系統的這個各種各樣的設備但是可能是需要一點時間來建構但是我們已經充分認識到我們要強化我們的海岸巡防的系統\n這個部分謝謝您的回覆我想後續國人的關心國人的焦慮或者是立法院這邊監督都會持續非常非常重要雖然你們在預算很困難的情況下最後我想跟你分享一個是從我們辦公室收集到的另外一個我們認為有高度國安疑慮的個案但我們很擔心它日後會成為通案來往下\n在2022年當時呢直蘭高雄鋼鐵人發現有港資那當時陸委會做了非常積極的處理因為我們認為有國安疑慮那這個部分當然要給2022年的陸委會高度的肯定但是我想要跟兩位分享目前中國在全世界對於運動的滲透其實最簡單的第一步就是開始買球隊來下一張開始買球隊例如說海外足球隊\n非常有名的英超、西甲、普甲、易甲都有甚至在NBA裡面也已經買球隊了買球隊之後可以做非常非常多的事情我今天時間有限不再贅述下一張但是回到台灣我們收到了一個陳情在2024年我們辦公室已經積極處理了\n也就是台中的國立台灣體育運動大學有一個學校的球隊他們可以參加台灣以及足球聯賽他們把這個參賽資格轉讓給一間公司叫峰會體育有限公司看起來這個公司如果你去經濟部網站上查看不太出來什麼問題但是往下看我們跟教育部當然已經討論過教育部相關業務也在進行當中下一張那我們來看一下\n目前呢國外的俱樂部或者是參賽權利的收購或是轉讓在民間其實是所謂的商業行為可是中華足協足球聯賽是FIFA它是亞足聯系統賽事重點在後面這句話這些球隊它可以代表台灣參加國際賽\n可是如果這些球隊背後的經營主或者是擁有這個球隊的老闆甚至這個球隊他就只是學校的球隊的參賽權他竟然背後是中資跟港資這有沒有國安疑慮\n好 我們往下看 再下一張好 再下一張我要說的是 其實不是只有足球 包含排球在台灣由單項協會所主辦的企業聯賽也都可以代表台灣參加國際組織的體育賽事代表台灣出隊\n所以我想要請教一下就國安的角度來說當然後續這家公司我們再去追查發現所謂峰會體育有限公司它的負責人是另外一家公司的董事跟發言人而這一家公司背後就是中資跟港資\n所以如果我們連連看會發現他確實有所謂的國安疑慮而這個球隊目前的參賽權已經賣出去了當然教育部那邊或者是監察院這邊他們都有相關調查在進行但是我要把相關這個個案跟國安會討論如果未來在台灣也開始發生中國在海外買球隊的狀況他開始進到台灣來做這個操作你們怎麼看\n報告委員這件事情當然是很嚴重尤其是代表我們國家去參加國際比賽那如果背後有中資港資我想當然是對我們國家利益不好所以這件事情我想我們會帶回去跟行政院包括教育部還有行政院這邊一起來協調開會以及國安局我們來研究一下應該怎麼樣去防堵這樣的事情發生\n好 我也跟您說 它除了代表台灣出事案之外 它其實有另外一個疑慮假設我背後是中資港資 我在台灣甕有一個球隊我有了這個球隊的名義 我可能就可以去投標或是承包某些場地的經營權我舉一個例子 剛剛這個學校是在台中 而台中在明後年就會落成一個足球園區\n而這個足球園區如果真的被這個球隊拿去做經營做場地的經營跟空間我們很難想像背後中資跟港資會如何透過這個身份做出一些滲透跟我們認為灰色襲擾的部分所以我才要把這個看起來是個案但很有可能未來變成通案的狀況跟國安會先行討論好嗎\n謝謝委員指教好謝謝你們當然希望今天後續的預算解凍跟討論可以順利的進行讓你們可以回去好好上班好謝謝兩位謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.571 --> 00:24.597\n好謝謝主席喔語重心長的嘆息因為剛剛聽到了非常多不實的訊息我想要逐一來跟國安會還有和複密這邊澄清謝謝所以要請兩位一起兩位複密署長給我給我給我好好\n\n00:30.816 --> 00:53.203\n兩位辛苦了我想我們今天之所以還要在這邊今天已經五月底了我們還要在這邊認真來討論預算解凍案事出必有因那我想這個因就是來自於在去年二輪預算提出來的時候藍白共同提出三四千案我們認為極度不合理的預算甚至沒有專業考慮沒有專業的討論\n\n00:56.064 --> 01:11.854\n通常在本委我們要提出預算的時候一定是基於我們在這整個委員會對相關機關部會業務的理解我們提出一個立法委員該行的職權我們進行監督進行討論所以我們透過預算這是一個手段跟方法對嗎兩位\n\n01:13.671 --> 01:28.678\n那過去像這樣子的監督機制有遇到像今年這麼大的困難嗎可不可以分享一下那也許國安會這邊比較資深你要不要分享一下今年算不算是一種史無前例的荒謬的亂象\n\n01:30.714 --> 01:45.185\n今年相對於過去若干年是比較困難比較困難好您講得非常保守我直接說是荒謬跟亂象我過去在教育文化委員會我們每一個人基於自己的專業跟理解我們在第一輪負責任的提出我們的預算案然後我們認真的討論\n\n01:48.727 --> 02:08.657\n最後藍白還有民進黨會做出默契也就是朝野對於相關預算跟業務的推廣是有一定的默契到了二輪提案的時候通常各個委員辦公室都是因為可能時間來不及啦或者是可能之前沒有想到大家再補題這是過往的案例那當然我們來立法院的資歷比較淺才來兩年但是這兩年或者是我們參考過去非常多優秀專業的立法委員的提案我們發現比較是這個狀況\n\n02:17.902 --> 02:32.370\n所以我才說雖然我才來兩年但是我認為目前在今年也就是他們去年藍白提出來荒謬二輪的超過三四千案的預算提案是荒謬的這是我個人的見解剛剛還有非常多委員也問了我覺得很荒謬的問題第一個他請問何富密說我們的賴總統到三峽的現場去勘栽的時候沒有接受訪問然後第一時間表達關心我們很謝謝賴總統做出這個動作\n\n02:47.219 --> 02:53.920\n但是他剛剛一直問說為什麼總統沒有捐款總統的薪水有多少然後總統為什麼沒有捐款\n\n02:55.379 --> 03:24.064\n我不知道這樣的問題意義何在那如果真的要認真追究捐款這件事情我想我就先問馬英九總統任內當時他標榜要達到633他還說如果沒有達到633他要捐出薪水的一半但事後他自己承認並沒有捐出來那是不是我們也可以問這個事情那當然這個事過境遷也不關何複銘您的事情如果真的要追究賴清德總統有沒有捐款呢網路上有人幫忙整理我今天就來分享一兩個\n\n03:25.814 --> 03:33.562\n以我以關心兒少的角度來看2018年2月9號台南家福中心頒助獎學金賴清的總統當時捐助了獎學金超過500萬其中有100萬是選舉補助款2018年3月12號學甲伯利恆藻寮教育中心落成賴清的總統捐了500萬也是來自選舉補助款\n\n03:47.156 --> 04:07.596\n2021年4月5號捐助台鐵事故傷亡者當時蔡英文總統賴清德副總統蘇貞昌院長捐一個月所得2021年10月15號寄助陳忠誠災戶蔡英文總統賴清德副總統陳其邁等捐出一個月的薪水所得這只是我剛剛舉的其中一些些例子\n\n04:08.357 --> 04:16.042\n我並不是要請何鳳敏把這個訊息帶回去請總統再捐款我想在委員在質詢台上必須要負責任對自己的言論負責而我認為剛剛有非常多在野黨的委員一再的造謠抹黑那導致於我們必須要浪費我們自己的質詢時間但我認為正確資訊傳達是非常非常重要的\n\n04:30.590 --> 04:41.096\n每一個人要不要捐款是出自於自己的決定自己的選擇但在公開的質詢台上造謠賴清德總統沒有捐款這件事情我認為大可不必喔\n\n04:41.954 --> 05:06.219\n好那我們來看一下如果要來看相關預算我認為我們不如實質的來看你們在這麼困難的預算執行情況下還是有非常多事情需要你們在業務推廣上不斷前進不是嗎你們並沒有因為如此就不去上班然後或者是坐在那邊什麼事都沒做不是嗎對那我們來看一下而且還有很多國人關心的問題我想我要先謝謝你們一再的努力\n\n05:10.066 --> 05:21.201\n而且我要再次強調今天這一切的亂象預算的亂象今天之所以還要站在這邊真的是因為莫名其妙荒謬的二輪預算提案不問專業好第一個\n\n05:24.844 --> 05:40.340\n你看每次發生事情你們就會被叫來罵對不對像我今天沒有要罵你們啦我要跟你們討論喔終極人士在中小學門口直播這件事情我們非常謝謝警政署在第一時間他們去調查相關個案那他給了我一個說法說\n\n05:41.821 --> 06:09.788\n違反個資法違反妨害秘密罪還有違反兒少權法非常謝謝警政署的同仁在預算也有困難的情況下依然努力工作那我想要請問國安會就國安的角度我們可不可以告訴國人在相關的疑慮情況下我們應該要注意什麼樣的事情因為確實在社群裡面不管是家長不管是老師其實很多大人都非常的擔心那這個在\n\n06:10.808 --> 06:22.295\n警政署這段問題已經解決了但是如果我們回到我們去看中國的很多社群你按相關關鍵字滿滿的影片我們真的還是很擔心我想要請國安會給我們一些說明好不好\n\n06:23.477 --> 06:44.618\n報告委員我想這樣的事情我們當然是非常關切我想除了因為警政單位他們主要是接受報案我覺得我們國人自己要提高警覺包括家長跟學校方面如果看到甚至一般的民眾我有朋友今天就去檢舉\n\n06:45.999 --> 06:55.285\n他昨天就在學校門口看到可疑的人是他們還坐在學校附近的人行道上面甚至今天可能都還在進行\n\n07:01.869 --> 07:31.034\n你覺得可以檢舉我們可以向派出所先檢舉是是我的朋友檢舉以後那我們國安會這邊那個警察都非常負責的問得很詳細是所以我相信我們警政單位已經非常嚴肅的面對這件事情好那接下來就國安的角度我們還要注意什麼事情我想我們國安局以及其他的那個相關國安的單位他們會彼此交換訊息然後深入的調查這群人的背景\n\n07:32.659 --> 07:50.654\n我想背景的調查當然很重要那另外一個新聞我們來看一下中國人橡皮艇登台事件頻繁國安破口如何解目前為止到底他是居住在台灣的中國人還是他真的是駕著這個橡皮艇成功登台的目前都還是一個問號但是確實我們還是擔心相關的國安破口\n\n07:55.478 --> 08:15.172\n那甚至我們也擔心這個模式在金門跟馬祖在近期在台灣的數量也越來越多有沒有可能是認知作戰還有所謂的揮帶襲擾那在金門跟馬祖因為過往金門跟馬祖相對於中國或者是他們的立法委員對於中國是相對友善的可能對於相關的認知作戰或所謂的揮帶襲擾他們不見得跟我們有一樣程度的認知但我認為這件事情都還是值得討論\n\n08:22.657 --> 08:27.984\n可是回到台灣本島我們來看這件事情國安單位可不可以給我們一些建議或者是你們後續將會如何處理相關的事情\n\n08:31.771 --> 08:53.171\n這個問題的話分兩個部分首先不論是本島還是外島我們國安單位都認為我們都把它看作是灰色洗腦的一部分這個已經非常確定那當然海巡署跟海委會也表示我們的這個偵測系統可能是有些不足\n\n08:53.812 --> 09:04.063\n那我知道海委會已經向行政院提出海空一體295億的一個預算裡面有強化各方面次世代雷達紅外線熱像儀環島監視系統等等\n\n09:09.809 --> 09:23.345\n這個強調要強化我們ISR系統的這個各種各樣的設備但是可能是需要一點時間來建構但是我們已經充分認識到我們要強化我們的海岸巡防的系統\n\n09:24.566 --> 09:45.913\n這個部分謝謝您的回覆我想後續國人的關心國人的焦慮或者是立法院這邊監督都會持續非常非常重要雖然你們在預算很困難的情況下最後我想跟你分享一個是從我們辦公室收集到的另外一個我們認為有高度國安疑慮的個案但我們很擔心它日後會成為通案來往下\n\n09:47.193 --> 10:11.838\n在2022年當時呢直蘭高雄鋼鐵人發現有港資那當時陸委會做了非常積極的處理因為我們認為有國安疑慮那這個部分當然要給2022年的陸委會高度的肯定但是我想要跟兩位分享目前中國在全世界對於運動的滲透其實最簡單的第一步就是開始買球隊來下一張開始買球隊例如說海外足球隊\n\n10:15.979 --> 10:32.067\n非常有名的英超、西甲、普甲、易甲都有甚至在NBA裡面也已經買球隊了買球隊之後可以做非常非常多的事情我今天時間有限不再贅述下一張但是回到台灣我們收到了一個陳情在2024年我們辦公室已經積極處理了\n\n10:34.628 --> 11:02.668\n也就是台中的國立台灣體育運動大學有一個學校的球隊他們可以參加台灣以及足球聯賽他們把這個參賽資格轉讓給一間公司叫峰會體育有限公司看起來這個公司如果你去經濟部網站上查看不太出來什麼問題但是往下看我們跟教育部當然已經討論過教育部相關業務也在進行當中下一張那我們來看一下\n\n11:04.656 --> 11:22.569\n目前呢國外的俱樂部或者是參賽權利的收購或是轉讓在民間其實是所謂的商業行為可是中華足協足球聯賽是FIFA它是亞足聯系統賽事重點在後面這句話這些球隊它可以代表台灣參加國際賽\n\n11:24.790 --> 11:37.959\n可是如果這些球隊背後的經營主或者是擁有這個球隊的老闆甚至這個球隊他就只是學校的球隊的參賽權他竟然背後是中資跟港資這有沒有國安疑慮\n\n11:39.687 --> 11:54.101\n好我們往下看再下一張好再下一張我要說的是其實不是只有足球包含排球在台灣由單項協會所主辦的企業聯賽也都可以代表台灣參加國際組織的體育賽事代表台灣出隊\n\n11:59.827 --> 12:14.441\n所以我想要請教一下就國安的角度來說當然後續這家公司我們再去追查發現所謂峰會體育有限公司它的負責人是另外一家公司的董事跟發言人而這一家公司背後就是中資跟港資\n\n12:15.322 --> 12:40.674\n所以如果我們連連看會發現他確實有所謂的國安疑慮而這個球隊目前的參賽權已經賣出去了當然教育部那邊或者是監察院這邊他們都有相關調查在進行但是我要把相關這個個案跟國安會討論如果未來在台灣也開始發生中國在海外買球隊的狀況他開始進到台灣來做這個操作你們怎麼看\n\n12:42.970 --> 13:08.369\n報告委員這件事情當然是很嚴重尤其是代表我們國家去參加國際比賽那如果背後有中資港資我想當然是對我們國家利益不好所以這件事情我想我們會帶回去跟行政院包括教育部還有行政院這邊一起來協調開會以及國安局我們來研究一下應該怎麼樣去防堵這樣的事情發生\n\n13:08.629 --> 13:30.211\n好我也跟您說它除了代表台灣出事案之外它其實有另外一個疑慮假設我背後是中資港資我在台灣甕有一個球隊我有了這個球隊的名義我可能就可以去投標或是承包某些場地的經營權我舉一個例子剛剛這個學校是在台中而台中在明後年就會落成一個足球園區\n\n13:31.252 --> 13:50.545\n而這個足球園區如果真的被這個球隊拿去做經營做場地的經營跟空間我們很難想像背後中資跟港資會如何透過這個身份做出一些滲透跟我們認為灰色襲擾的部分所以我才要把這個看起來是個案但很有可能未來變成通案的狀況跟國安會先行討論好嗎\n\n13:53.287 --> 14:00.853\n謝謝委員指教好謝謝你們當然希望今天後續的預算解凍跟討論可以順利的進行讓你們可以回去好好上班好謝謝兩位謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.571,"end":24.597,"text":"好 謝謝主席喔 語重心長的嘆息因為剛剛聽到了非常多不實的訊息我想要逐一來跟國安會還有和複密這邊澄清 謝謝所以要請兩位一起兩位複密署長給我給我給我好好"},{"start":30.816,"end":53.203,"text":"兩位辛苦了我想我們今天之所以還要在這邊今天已經五月底了我們還要在這邊認真來討論預算解凍案事出必有因那我想這個因就是來自於在去年二輪預算提出來的時候藍白共同提出三四千案我們認為極度不合理的預算甚至沒有專業考慮沒有專業的討論"},{"start":56.064,"end":71.854,"text":"通常在本委我們要提出預算的時候一定是基於我們在這整個委員會對相關機關部會業務的理解我們提出一個立法委員該行的職權我們進行監督進行討論所以我們透過預算這是一個手段跟方法對嗎兩位"},{"start":73.671,"end":88.678,"text":"那過去像這樣子的監督機制有遇到像今年這麼大的困難嗎可不可以分享一下那也許國安會這邊比較資深你要不要分享一下今年算不算是一種史無前例的荒謬的亂象"},{"start":90.714,"end":105.185,"text":"今年相對於過去若干年是比較困難比較困難好 您講得非常保守我直接說是荒謬跟亂象我過去在教育文化委員會我們每一個人基於自己的專業跟理解我們在第一輪負責任的提出我們的預算案然後我們認真的討論"},{"start":108.727,"end":128.657,"text":"最後藍白還有民進黨會做出默契也就是朝野對於相關預算跟業務的推廣是有一定的默契到了二輪提案的時候通常各個委員辦公室都是因為可能時間來不及啦或者是可能之前沒有想到大家再補題這是過往的案例那當然我們來立法院的資歷比較淺才來兩年但是這兩年或者是我們參考過去非常多優秀專業的立法委員的提案我們發現比較是這個狀況"},{"start":137.902,"end":152.37,"text":"所以我才說雖然我才來兩年但是我認為目前在今年也就是他們去年藍白提出來荒謬二輪的超過三四千案的預算提案是荒謬的這是我個人的見解剛剛還有非常多委員也問了我覺得很荒謬的問題第一個他請問何富密說我們的賴總統到三峽的現場去勘栽的時候沒有接受訪問然後第一時間表達關心我們很謝謝賴總統做出這個動作"},{"start":167.219,"end":173.92,"text":"但是他剛剛一直問說為什麼總統沒有捐款總統的薪水有多少然後總統為什麼沒有捐款"},{"start":175.379,"end":204.064,"text":"我不知道這樣的問題意義何在那如果真的要認真追究捐款這件事情我想我就先問馬英九總統任內當時他標榜要達到633他還說如果沒有達到633他要捐出薪水的一半但事後他自己承認並沒有捐出來那是不是我們也可以問這個事情那當然這個事過境遷也不關何複銘您的事情如果真的要追究賴清德總統有沒有捐款呢網路上有人幫忙整理我今天就來分享一兩個"},{"start":205.814,"end":213.562,"text":"以我以關心兒少的角度來看2018年2月9號台南家福中心頒助獎學金賴清的總統當時捐助了獎學金超過500萬其中有100萬是選舉補助款2018年3月12號學甲伯利恆藻寮教育中心落成賴清的總統捐了500萬也是來自選舉補助款"},{"start":227.156,"end":247.596,"text":"2021年4月5號捐助台鐵事故傷亡者當時蔡英文總統賴清德副總統蘇貞昌院長捐一個月所得2021年10月15號寄助陳忠誠災戶蔡英文總統賴清德副總統陳其邁等捐出一個月的薪水所得這只是我剛剛舉的其中一些些例子"},{"start":248.357,"end":256.042,"text":"我並不是要請何鳳敏把這個訊息帶回去請總統再捐款我想在委員在質詢台上必須要負責任對自己的言論負責而我認為剛剛有非常多在野黨的委員一再的造謠抹黑那導致於我們必須要浪費我們自己的質詢時間但我認為正確資訊傳達是非常非常重要的"},{"start":270.59,"end":281.096,"text":"每一個人要不要捐款是出自於自己的決定自己的選擇但在公開的質詢台上造謠賴清德總統沒有捐款這件事情我認為大可不必喔"},{"start":281.954,"end":306.219,"text":"好 那我們來看一下如果要來看相關預算我認為我們不如實質的來看你們在這麼困難的預算執行情況下還是有非常多事情需要你們在業務推廣上不斷前進不是嗎你們並沒有因為如此就不去上班然後或者是坐在那邊什麼事都沒做不是嗎對 那我們來看一下而且還有很多國人關心的問題我想我要先謝謝你們一再的努力"},{"start":310.066,"end":321.201,"text":"而且我要再次強調今天這一切的亂象預算的亂象今天之所以還要站在這邊真的是因為莫名其妙荒謬的二輪預算提案不問專業好 第一個"},{"start":324.844,"end":340.34,"text":"你看每次發生事情你們就會被叫來罵對不對像我今天沒有要罵你們啦我要跟你們討論喔終極人士在中小學門口直播這件事情我們非常謝謝警政署在第一時間他們去調查相關個案那他給了我一個說法說"},{"start":341.821,"end":369.788,"text":"違反個資法 違反妨害秘密罪還有違反兒少權法非常謝謝警政署的同仁在預算也有困難的情況下依然努力工作那我想要請問國安會就國安的角度我們可不可以告訴國人在相關的疑慮情況下我們應該要注意什麼樣的事情因為確實在社群裡面不管是家長不管是老師其實很多大人都非常的擔心那這個在"},{"start":370.808,"end":382.295,"text":"警政署這段問題已經解決了但是如果我們回到我們去看中國的很多社群你按相關關鍵字滿滿的影片我們真的還是很擔心我想要請國安會給我們一些說明好不好"},{"start":383.477,"end":404.618,"text":"報告委員 我想這樣的事情我們當然是非常關切我想除了因為警政單位他們主要是接受報案我覺得我們國人自己要提高警覺包括家長跟學校方面如果看到甚至一般的民眾我有朋友今天就去檢舉"},{"start":405.999,"end":415.285,"text":"他昨天就在學校門口 看到可疑的人是 他們還坐在學校附近的人行道上面甚至今天可能都還在進行"},{"start":421.869,"end":451.034,"text":"你覺得可以檢舉 我們可以向派出所先檢舉是 是我的朋友檢舉以後 那我們國安會這邊那個警察都非常負責的問得很詳細 是所以我相信我們警政單位已經非常嚴肅的面對這件事情好 那接下來就國安的角度我們還要注意什麼事情我想我們國安局以及其他的那個相關國安的單位他們會彼此交換訊息然後深入的調查這群人的背景"},{"start":452.659,"end":470.654,"text":"我想背景的調查當然很重要那另外一個新聞我們來看一下中國人橡皮艇登台事件頻繁國安破口如何解目前為止到底他是居住在台灣的中國人還是他真的是駕著這個橡皮艇成功登台的目前都還是一個問號但是確實我們還是擔心相關的國安破口"},{"start":475.478,"end":495.172,"text":"那甚至我們也擔心這個模式在金門跟馬祖在近期在台灣的數量也越來越多有沒有可能是認知作戰還有所謂的揮帶襲擾那在金門跟馬祖因為過往金門跟馬祖相對於中國或者是他們的立法委員對於中國是相對友善的可能對於相關的認知作戰或所謂的揮帶襲擾他們不見得跟我們有一樣程度的認知但我認為這件事情都還是值得討論"},{"start":502.657,"end":507.984,"text":"可是回到台灣本島我們來看這件事情國安單位可不可以給我們一些建議或者是你們後續將會如何處理相關的事情"},{"start":511.771,"end":533.171,"text":"這個問題的話分兩個部分首先不論是本島還是外島我們國安單位都認為我們都把它看作是灰色洗腦的一部分這個已經非常確定那當然海巡署跟海委會也表示我們的這個偵測系統可能是有些不足"},{"start":533.812,"end":544.063,"text":"那我知道海委會已經向行政院提出海空一體295億的一個預算裡面有強化各方面次世代雷達紅外線熱像儀環島監視系統等等"},{"start":549.809,"end":563.345,"text":"這個強調要強化我們ISR系統的這個各種各樣的設備但是可能是需要一點時間來建構但是我們已經充分認識到我們要強化我們的海岸巡防的系統"},{"start":564.566,"end":585.913,"text":"這個部分謝謝您的回覆我想後續國人的關心國人的焦慮或者是立法院這邊監督都會持續非常非常重要雖然你們在預算很困難的情況下最後我想跟你分享一個是從我們辦公室收集到的另外一個我們認為有高度國安疑慮的個案但我們很擔心它日後會成為通案來往下"},{"start":587.193,"end":611.838,"text":"在2022年當時呢直蘭高雄鋼鐵人發現有港資那當時陸委會做了非常積極的處理因為我們認為有國安疑慮那這個部分當然要給2022年的陸委會高度的肯定但是我想要跟兩位分享目前中國在全世界對於運動的滲透其實最簡單的第一步就是開始買球隊來下一張開始買球隊例如說海外足球隊"},{"start":615.979,"end":632.067,"text":"非常有名的英超、西甲、普甲、易甲都有甚至在NBA裡面也已經買球隊了買球隊之後可以做非常非常多的事情我今天時間有限不再贅述下一張但是回到台灣我們收到了一個陳情在2024年我們辦公室已經積極處理了"},{"start":634.628,"end":662.668,"text":"也就是台中的國立台灣體育運動大學有一個學校的球隊他們可以參加台灣以及足球聯賽他們把這個參賽資格轉讓給一間公司叫峰會體育有限公司看起來這個公司如果你去經濟部網站上查看不太出來什麼問題但是往下看我們跟教育部當然已經討論過教育部相關業務也在進行當中下一張那我們來看一下"},{"start":664.656,"end":682.569,"text":"目前呢國外的俱樂部或者是參賽權利的收購或是轉讓在民間其實是所謂的商業行為可是中華足協足球聯賽是FIFA它是亞足聯系統賽事重點在後面這句話這些球隊它可以代表台灣參加國際賽"},{"start":684.79,"end":697.959,"text":"可是如果這些球隊背後的經營主或者是擁有這個球隊的老闆甚至這個球隊他就只是學校的球隊的參賽權他竟然背後是中資跟港資這有沒有國安疑慮"},{"start":699.687,"end":714.101,"text":"好 我們往下看 再下一張好 再下一張我要說的是 其實不是只有足球 包含排球在台灣由單項協會所主辦的企業聯賽也都可以代表台灣參加國際組織的體育賽事代表台灣出隊"},{"start":719.827,"end":734.441,"text":"所以我想要請教一下就國安的角度來說當然後續這家公司我們再去追查發現所謂峰會體育有限公司它的負責人是另外一家公司的董事跟發言人而這一家公司背後就是中資跟港資"},{"start":735.322,"end":760.674,"text":"所以如果我們連連看會發現他確實有所謂的國安疑慮而這個球隊目前的參賽權已經賣出去了當然教育部那邊或者是監察院這邊他們都有相關調查在進行但是我要把相關這個個案跟國安會討論如果未來在台灣也開始發生中國在海外買球隊的狀況他開始進到台灣來做這個操作你們怎麼看"},{"start":762.97,"end":788.369,"text":"報告委員這件事情當然是很嚴重尤其是代表我們國家去參加國際比賽那如果背後有中資港資我想當然是對我們國家利益不好所以這件事情我想我們會帶回去跟行政院包括教育部還有行政院這邊一起來協調開會以及國安局我們來研究一下應該怎麼樣去防堵這樣的事情發生"},{"start":788.629,"end":810.211,"text":"好 我也跟您說 它除了代表台灣出事案之外 它其實有另外一個疑慮假設我背後是中資港資 我在台灣甕有一個球隊我有了這個球隊的名義 我可能就可以去投標或是承包某些場地的經營權我舉一個例子 剛剛這個學校是在台中 而台中在明後年就會落成一個足球園區"},{"start":811.252,"end":830.545,"text":"而這個足球園區如果真的被這個球隊拿去做經營做場地的經營跟空間我們很難想像背後中資跟港資會如何透過這個身份做出一些滲透跟我們認為灰色襲擾的部分所以我才要把這個看起來是個案但很有可能未來變成通案的狀況跟國安會先行討論好嗎"},{"start":833.287,"end":840.853,"text":"謝謝委員指教好謝謝你們當然希望今天後續的預算解凍跟討論可以順利的進行讓你們可以回去好好上班好謝謝兩位謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":737,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（15時41分）好，謝謝主席。語重心長地嘆氣，因為剛剛聽到非常多不實的訊息，我想要逐一來跟國安會還有何副秘這邊澄清，謝謝。"],["主席：所以要請他們兩位？"],["陳委員培瑜：兩位一起。"],["主席：兩位副秘書長。"],["何副秘書長志偉：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：兩位辛苦了。今天已經五月底了，而我們之所以還要在這邊認真來討論預算解凍案，事出必有因，我想這個因就是來自於在去年二輪預算提出來的時候，藍白共同提出3,000、4,000案我們認為極度不合理的預算，甚至沒有專業考慮、沒有專業的討論。通常在本委員會我們要提出預算的時候，一定是基於我們在這整個委員會對相關機關、部會業務的理解，我們提出一個立法委員該行的職權，我們進行監督、進行討論。所以我們透過預算，這是一個手段跟方法，對嗎？請問兩位。"],["何副秘書長志偉：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：過去像這樣子的監督機制，有遇到像今年這麼大的困難嗎？可不可以分享一下？也許國安會這邊比較資深，你要不要分享一下今年算不算是一種史無前例的、荒謬的亂象？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：今年相對於過去若干年，是比較困難。"],["陳委員培瑜：比較困難？您講的非常保守，我直接說是荒謬跟亂象。我過去在教育文化委員會，我們每一個人基於自己的專業跟理解，在第一輪負責任地提出我們的預算案，然後我們認真地討論，最後藍白還有民進黨會做出默契，也就是朝野對於相關預算跟業務的推廣是有一定的默契。到了二輪提案的時候，通常各個委員辦公室都是因為可能時間來不及啦！或者是可能之前沒有想到，大家再補提。這是過往的案例。當然我來立法院的資歷比較淺，才來兩年，但是我們也參考過去非常多優秀、專業的立法委員的提案，我們發現比較是這個狀況。所以我才說，雖然我才來兩年，但是我認為目前在今年，也就是他們去年藍白提出來二輪超過三、四千案的預算提案是荒謬的，這是我個人的見解。","剛剛還有非常多委員也問了我覺得很荒謬的問題。第一個，他請問何副秘說我們的賴總統到三峽的現場去勘災的時候沒有接受訪問，然後第一時間表達關心。我們很謝謝賴總統做出這個動作。但是他剛剛一直問說為什麼總統沒有捐款、總統的薪水有多少，然後總統為什麼沒有捐款，我不知道這樣的問題意義何在。","如果真的要認真追究捐款這件事情，我就先問，在馬英九總統任內，當時他標榜要達到633，他還說如果沒有達到633，他要捐出薪水的一半，但事後他自己承認並沒有捐出來。那是不是我們也可以問這個事情？當然這個事過境遷，也不關何副秘您的事情。如果真的要追究賴清德總統有沒有捐款，網路上有人幫忙整理，我今天就來分享一、兩個。","以我從關心兒少角度來看，2018年2月9號臺南家扶中心頒助獎學金，賴清德總統當時捐助了獎學金超過500萬，其中有100萬是選舉補助款。2018年3月12號學甲伯利恆早療教育中心落成，賴清德總統捐了500萬，也是來自選舉補助款。2021年4月5號捐助台鐵事故傷亡者，當時蔡英文總統、賴清德副總統、蘇貞昌院長捐一個月所得。2021年10月15號濟助城中城災戶，蔡英文總統、賴清德副總統、陳其邁等捐出一個月的薪水所得。","這只是我剛剛舉的其中一些些例子，我並不是要請何副秘把這個訊息帶回去請總統再捐款。我想委員在質詢台上必須要負責任，對自己的言論負責，而我認為剛剛有非常多在野黨的委員一再地造謠抹黑，導致於我們必須要浪費自己的質詢時間，但我認為正確資訊傳達是非常非常重要的。每一個人要不要捐款是出自於自己的決定、自己的選擇，但在公開的質詢台上造謠賴清德總統沒有捐款這件事情，我認為大可不必。","好，我們來看一下。如果要來看相關預算，我認為我們不如實質地來看你們在這麼困難的預算執行情況下，還是有非常多事情需要你們在業務推廣上不斷前進，不是嗎？你們並沒有因為如此就不去上班，或者是坐在那邊什麼事都沒做，不是嗎？"],["何副秘書長志偉：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，還有很多國人關心的問題，我想我要先謝謝你們一再地努力。而且我要再次強調，今天這一切預算的亂象，今天之所以還要站在這邊，真的是因為莫名其妙、荒謬的二輪預算提案，不問專業。你看！每次發生事情，你們就會被叫來罵，對不對？我今天沒有要罵你們啦！我要跟你們討論。","第一個，中籍人士在中小學門口直播。這件事情我們非常謝謝警政署在第一時間去調查相關個案，它給了我一個說法，就是違反個資法、違反妨害秘密罪，還有違反兒少權法。非常謝謝警政署的同仁在預算也有困難的情況下，依然努力工作。","我想要請問國安會，就國安的角度，我們可不可以告訴國人，在相關的疑慮情況下，我們應該要注意什麼樣的事情？因為確實在社群裡面，不管是家長，不管是老師，其實很多大人都非常地擔心。這個在警政署這段問題已經解決了，但是如果我們去看中國的很多社群，你按相關關鍵字，滿滿的影片，我們真的還是很擔心。我想請國安會給我們一些說明，好不好？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：報告委員，我想這樣的事情我們當然是非常關切。因為警政單位他們主要是接受報案，我覺得我們國人自己要提高警覺，包括家長跟學校方面，甚至一般的民眾。我有朋友今天就去檢舉，他昨天就在學校門口看到可疑的人。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以是副秘您的朋友真的有看到？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，太好了！"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：他們還坐在學校附近的人行道上面。"],["陳委員培瑜：也就是說這個事情還沒有停止，對嗎？只是可能沒有在新聞流量上？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：甚至今天可能都還在進行。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。你覺得可以檢舉，我們可以向派出所先檢舉？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，然後呢？那我們國安會這邊？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：接獲檢舉後，警察都非常負責地問得很詳細，所以我相信我們警政單位已經非常嚴肅地面對這件事情。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，那接下來就國安的角度，我們還要注意什麼事情？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：我想我們國安局以及其他相關國安的單位，他們會彼此交換訊息，然後深入調查這群人的背景。"],["陳委員培瑜：我想背景的調查當然很重要，另外一個新聞我們來看一下。中國人橡皮艇登臺事件頻繁，國安破口如何解？目前為止，到底他是居住在臺灣的中國人，還是他真的是駕著橡皮艇成功登臺的，目前都還是一個問號。但是確實我們還是擔心相關的國安破口，甚至我們也擔心這個模式在金門跟馬祖、在近期、在臺灣的數量也越來越多。有沒有可能是認知作戰，還有所謂的灰帶襲擾？","過往金門跟馬祖相對於中國，或者是他們的立法委員對於中國是相對友善的，可能對於相關的認知作戰或所謂的灰帶襲擾他們不見得跟我們有一樣程度的認知，但我認為這件事情都還是值得討論。可是回到臺灣本島，我們來看這件事情，國安單位可否給我們一些意見？或者你們後續將如何處理相關的事情？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：這個問題分兩個部分：首先，不論是本島或外島，我們國安單位都把它看作灰色襲擾的一部分，這個已經非常確定。當然，海巡署和海委會也表示我們的偵測系統可能有些不足，我知道海委會已經向行政院提出海空一體295億元的預算，裡面有強化各方面，次世代雷達、紅外線熱像儀、環島監視系統等等，強調要強化我們ISR系統的各種各樣的設備，可能需要一點時間來建構，但我們已經充分認識到我們要強化我們的海岸巡防系統。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個部分謝謝你的回復，我想後續國人的關心、國人的焦慮或立法院的監督都會持續，非常非常重要，雖然你們在預算很困難的情況下。最後，我想跟你分享一個是從我們辦公室蒐集到的另外一個我們認為有高度國安疑慮的個案，但我們很擔心它日後會成為通案。在2022年，當時職籃高雄鋼鐵人發現有港資，當時陸委會作了非常積極的處理，因為我們認為有國安疑慮，這個部分當然要給2022年的陸委會高度的肯定，但是我想要跟兩位分享，目前中國在全世界對運動的滲透其實最簡單的第一步就是開始買球隊，例如海外足球隊，非常有名的英超、西甲、葡甲、義甲都有，甚至在NBA裡面也已經買球隊了，買球隊之後可以做非常多的事情，我今天時間有限不再贅述。但是回到臺灣，我們收到一個陳情，在2024年我們辦公室已經積極處理了，也就是臺中的國立臺灣體育運動大學有一個學校的球隊，他們可以參加臺灣乙級足球聯賽，他們把參賽資格轉讓給一間公司叫豐匯體育有限公司，如果你去經濟部網站查，看不太出來這個公司有什麼問題，但是往下看，我們當然跟教育部已經討論過，教育部相關業務也在進行當中，目前國外的俱樂部或參賽權利的收購或轉讓在民間其實是所謂的商業行為，可是中華足協足球聯賽是FIFA/亞足聯系統賽事，重點在後面這句話，這些球隊可以代表臺灣參加國際賽，可是如果這些球隊背後的經營主或者擁有這個球隊的老闆，甚至這個球隊就只是學校的球隊參賽權，它竟然背後是中資跟港資，這有沒有國安疑慮？","我要說的是，其實不是只有足球，包含排球，在臺灣由單項協會所主辦的企業聯賽，也都可以代表臺灣參加國際組織的體育賽事，代表臺灣出隊，所以我想要請教一下，就國安的角度來說，當然後續這家公司我們再去追查發現所謂豐匯體育有限公司的負責人是另外一家公司的董事和發言人，而這家公司背後就是中資和港資，所以如果我們連連看會發現它確實有國安疑慮，而這個球隊目前的參賽權已經賣出去了，當然，教育部或監察院都有相關調查在進行，但是我要把相關個案跟國安會討論，如果未來在臺灣也開始發生中國在海外買球隊的狀況，它開始進到臺灣來進行這個操作，你們怎麼看？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：報告委員，這件事情當然是很嚴重，尤其是代表我們國家去參加國際比賽，如果背後有中資、港資，我想當然對我們國家利益是不好的，所以這件事情我們會帶回去跟教育部和行政院一起來協調開會，以及國安局，我們來研究一下應該怎麼去防杜這樣的事情發生。"],["陳委員培瑜：它除了代表臺灣出賽之外，它其實有另外一個疑慮，假設我背後是中資、港資，我在臺灣握有一個球隊，我用這個球隊的名義可能就可以去投標或承包某些場地的經營權，我舉一個例子，剛剛這個學校是在臺中，而臺中在後年就會落成一個足球園區，而這個足球園區如果真的被這個球隊拿去做場地的經營和空間，我很難想像背後中資和港資會如何透過這個身分做出一些滲透和我們認為灰色襲擾的部分，所以我才要把這個看起來像個案，但很有可能未來變成通案的狀況，跟國安會先行討論，好嗎？"],["徐副秘書長斯儉：謝謝委員指教。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝你們，當然希望今天後續的預算解凍和討論可以順利進行，讓你們可以回去好好上班，謝謝兩位，謝謝主席。"],["主席：下一位請吳思瑤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王鴻薇","羅智強","吳思瑤","王義川","翁曉玲","莊瑞雄","陳培瑜","沈發惠"],"page_start":259,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145202_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府預算凍結項目共 5案；二、處理114年度中央政府總\n預算關於國家安全會議預算凍結項目共4案","agenda_id":"1145202_00003"}}}