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0.999}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 146.991, \"end\": 147.191, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"活\", \"start\": 147.191, \"end\": 147.571, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 147.571, \"end\": 147.772, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 147.772, \"end\": 147.992, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 147.992, \"end\": 148.332, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"穩\"}, {\"word\": \"固\", \"start\": 148.332, \"end\": 148.712, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 148.712, \"end\": 148.952, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 148.952, \"end\": 149.132, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 149.132, \"end\": 149.312, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 149.312, \"end\": 149.472, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 149.472, \"end\": 149.612, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 149.612, \"end\": 149.773, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 149.773, \"end\": 149.913, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 149.913, \"end\": 150.273, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 150.273, \"end\": 150.473, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 150.473, \"end\": 151.053, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 151.053, \"end\": 151.373, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 151.373, \"end\": 151.674, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"盾\", \"start\": 151.674, \"end\": 151.694, \"score\": 0.156}]}, {\"start\": 153.135, \"end\": 172.694, \"text\": \"所以民眾已知然後我們攤商的抗拒也不是很嚴重他給的意見是不送最好因為塑膠袋的成本越來越貴了可是他還是有他們一些問題他兩大困境是不敢不送因為隔壁的商家都在送或者是裝袋很麻煩要跟客人拿袋子來裝袋\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 153.135, \"end\": 153.215, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 153.215, \"end\": 153.275, \"score\": 0.378}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 153.275, \"end\": 153.655, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 693.076, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"吃\", \"start\": 693.076, \"end\": 693.317, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"虧\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 693.317, \"end\": 694.117, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 694.117, \"end\": 694.358, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 694.358, \"end\": 694.378, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,318 --> 00:00:31,942\n主席有請彭部長林委員好部長早今天想針對於之前我提出預算跟環境部有關的來跟部長討論一下那部長去年我就問過了就是說線索政策到底要怎麼推特別是針對小吃攤菜市場\n\n2\n00:00:32,799 --> 00:01:00,541\n早餐店和餐廳這四大場域有沒有清楚的期程跟策略結果你們的解讀報告寫說112年比91年減碩大概減量了50%可是針對這四大場域最難推的場域到114年還只是停留在所謂事辦計畫和寫指引的階段你自己最近公開也說2025年的目標有難度那我知道從2018年擴大\n\n3\n00:01:02,582 --> 00:01:20,402\n現用到14類的業者已經事實上是很重要的進程但現在剩下的就是那個最難推的商家類型所以我想問這些事辦計畫真的能夠撐到2030年能達標嗎有沒有更積極的做法因為我翻遍你們的報告沒有看到\n\n4\n00:01:21,341 --> 00:01:50,961\n對報告委員因為其實我自己也都是上街買菜啦那我自己會帶環保袋可是我看到像我這樣做的可能一百個只有一兩個所以這個國人的慣性的動力真的要改變一定要有一個優異的機制那我也觀察到各縣市環保局都也協助配合我們在做但是呢就是辦的那天會這樣做隔了幾天大家都忘記了所以我們跟我們循環署一直在想要用新的方法能夠來解決但是我們現在還沒有一個完全的定案\n\n5\n00:01:51,141 --> 00:02:08,949\n對可是怎麼會還在因為我剛剛不想講這樣可是購物袋的現用跟收費政策其實台灣民眾都已經也是習慣了因為很多份的調查都顯示差不多結果將近八成的人知道買東西要自備購物袋不知道要\n\n6\n00:02:09,522 --> 00:02:31,694\n不然就要自己付錢來買袋子那6成5的民眾是支持2030年全面限售更有超過8成6的民眾是認為說重複使用塑膠袋它事實上是可以做得到的所以這些數據都說明說限售政策的基礎其實在民眾的生活當中已經是穩固那我覺得這也是政策推動的最強的後盾\n\n7\n00:02:33,135 --> 00:02:52,694\n所以民眾已知然後我們攤商的抗拒也不是很嚴重他給的意見是不送最好因為塑膠袋的成本越來越貴了可是他還是有他們一些問題他兩大困境是不敢不送因為隔壁的商家都在送或者是裝袋很麻煩要跟客人拿袋子來裝袋\n\n8\n00:02:53,815 --> 00:03:05,007\n那既然有這兩大困難的話那就是希望民眾已知然後攤商有一些困難所以是不是應該可以政策上去考慮\n\n9\n00:03:06,107 --> 00:03:24,758\n可不可以排定場域去推動有一個順序然後可是這個場域推動的時候要一致性譬如蔡市長要一致性否則的話就像攤商講的隔壁再送我沒有送那我就不對了那可能我的生意會減弱還有請聽他們的需求去解決問題\n\n10\n00:03:25,598 --> 00:03:51,464\n他增加經濟誘因剛剛部長也提到說要有一些經濟誘因啊可能使得他們會願意去做來降低我們的攤商的成本然後明確制定策略跟目標所以我要請環境部呢事實上兩個月內是不是可以知道你們有沒有更積極的方案不管是分場域分階段可能要有個期程才讓人家知道說這四大場域接下來你會怎麼去\n\n11\n00:03:51,926 --> 00:04:05,667\n所以要清楚列出時程跟規劃跟成效目標所以部長這部分能不能做到有沒有什麼困難報告委員其實最後一條就是市場啦那這個市場呢其實有一些市場有自發性的做例如說台北市應該是東門市場\n\n12\n00:04:08,269 --> 00:04:26,518\n南門還是東南門市場他們就是做的有自發性去做這個事但是其他的市場呢就跟如同委員說的就是別人都送啊我就不送啊所以大家都就變成說這個東西只有在某一天推廣的時候會這樣是所以我說有沒有辦法去分你的這個場域之後然後能夠有些期程規劃\n\n13\n00:04:27,638 --> 00:04:51,265\n不是2030年目標是很難達成的對報告委員我們現在有一個新的做法就是說我們先找一個可能大家都會去的同溫層例如說花市大家都會去買花也願意去做的然後我們會有一些新的做法再提出來那現在正在演繹當中那這個大概在一兩個月內就會再推出來那我們希望造成一個示範的亮點讓大家能夠真的去省思這個問題所以部長兩個月內可不可以給我\n\n14\n00:04:52,645 --> 00:05:14,029\n可以可以可以差不多可是剛剛提到線索真的事實上14類事實上是被你們要求這14類業者要配合限量使用就整體的用量卻反而事實上是成長這不代表就政策沒有抓到關鍵嗎我舉兩個例子第一個我們的宅配的包裝袋跟氣泡袋\n\n15\n00:05:14,554 --> 00:05:33,784\n疫情後事實上這種消費型態改變跟用量暴增你們推出的環保網購的指引2.0還有也說是2026年要達成減量的目標真的能做到嗎第二是PVC的包裝袋雖然便宜透明適合我們的商品展示跟使用但含氫鈾\n\n16\n00:05:35,345 --> 00:06:01,768\n含那個塑化劑你們雖然在禁止在使用在食品的包裝可是其他的用途有管制嗎是不是有落實呢這些袋子最後還是落在台灣的土地上所以想問部長你怎麼看塑膠袋內銷量的上升這個趨勢這個數字你們怎麼拿來評估整體的那個減售的政策針對這兩個案例部長能不能在有效期限內去達標\n\n17\n00:06:03,729 --> 00:06:29,640\n跟委員報告那這邊的內銷量他會包括說我們的網購或說有些東西他包裝或外銷的啦那我想除了我們鋼的市場之外其實像科技業或者我們賣場的塑膠袋我們都一起會提出來一些減量的措施對可是我們內銷量是成長的這件事情有沒有辦法因為如果要達到2030年的話去做這樣子的一個減量根本看起來很難達標\n\n18\n00:06:31,055 --> 00:06:37,360\n整體剛剛14類已經事實上是有被先用可是問題是你內銷的塑膠的製品的話事實上是成長的\n\n19\n00:06:39,298 --> 00:06:58,463\n那這邊因為會牽扯到說民眾的生活習慣我們會以一個分捐的方式先以獎勵那以這個指引的方式譬如說現在除了我們的刷袋或者是免疫餐具之外其實還有賣場的這個他包裝也很多或者網購包裝那因為網購包裝推動這個循環袋箱需要有一些時間還有他現在的成本是比較高的那這邊我們會來這個逐步來推動再麻煩\n\n20\n00:07:09,329 --> 00:07:29,756\n很進步再來就是提到那個塑膠袋的用量那我們現在要問的是全球的那個塑膠公約強調有效回收循環再利用可是今天時間有些人不談後端處理所以想問我們的政策真的有幫民眾做好分類嗎台灣有九成以上的民眾都說自己有在做垃圾分類\n\n21\n00:07:30,316 --> 00:07:43,954\n可是塑膠現在大部分都丟在同一類要細分類的時候大家都常常搞不清楚所以像單一材質的可以回收複合材質不行的這種規則有多少人可以判斷得出來\n\n22\n00:07:45,516 --> 00:08:08,289\n雖然你們都有推社區公益大廈回收的示範計畫可是大部分都是靠管委會只是公告或現場回收員的那個人員的一些糾正可是塑膠材質這麼多標示又不清楚大家都覺得有心可是又沒有辦法所以是不是可以就是就想問是說現在真的有落實這樣子的一個前頭\n\n23\n00:08:09,550 --> 00:08:21,548\n源頭管理廠商能夠標示清楚然後呢讓民眾能夠有接受到你們的訊息真的讓民眾知道這些怎麼去做分類這樣能夠做到正確分類\n\n24\n00:08:23,763 --> 00:08:52,078\n各位報告那民眾他要丟出這些塑膠的製品有幾種方式啊那像如果是說他是給這個回收車因為他家裡的空間不多所以他只能夠分說容器類一大類然後讓青年隊去分類但是他也可以到賣場或者說我們有些現在有個自動回收機那那個部分就可以比較對塑膠有些比較好的分類方式可是還是希望環境部可以加強宣導真的很多人事實上是不太理解\n\n25\n00:08:52,626 --> 00:09:16,514\n這一塊這麼細分類只是大分類而已我們有看到一些國外做得好他分類的項目多到很多啦但是我們國人其實要往下走下一步的確分類的方式跟他的這個定義我們的確有增進的空間請環境部再好好的想一想怎麼讓民眾得到這樣的一個訊息那最後就是想問的是因為這也是在預算的時候\n\n26\n00:09:17,094 --> 00:09:40,143\n我就有提出來以桃園省道為例來提醒過機車的噪音問題非常嚴重影響到民眾的安寧這一年來環境部推動排氣管的認證制度也是助地方加強我們的聲音的照相執法這部分非常值得肯認可是後續還是有幾個問題要改善第一個很多人預約排檢就是我要預約檢驗卻排不到\n\n27\n00:09:43,864 --> 00:10:12,075\n那車照樣在路上跑地方環保局只能先不罰結果還是守法的民眾事實上是反而吃虧第二聲音照相的設置地點好像目前都集中在飆車族出沒的區域可是民眾真正投訴的熱點呢反而沒有裝設所以現在罰單上還是沒有去負那個分倍數的數據的爭議這會影響到整體的公信力制度的公信力所以是不是我考\n\n28\n00:10:12,495 --> 00:10:26,661\n我覺得建議兩項就是擴充我們的檢驗的量能也應該設計回檢的那個機制讓民眾知道不是通過一次我們認證就可以永久改裝使用第二事實上是公開我們設\n\n29\n00:10:28,822 --> 00:10:57,174\n點的邏輯也就是加強佈建設備要裝在真正民院的地方而不是在飆車組的地方所以請問部長這些建議是不是可以落實可以那這個因為那個一個站也是要100多萬所以我們也要爭取預算能夠來協助地方能夠多設置一點那委員因為過去都是飆車組的熱點那委員說的這個民眾老民的點因為最近我們也收到一些民眾他說那個點不是他生活的這個點是桃園我們\n\n30\n00:10:57,674 --> 00:11:18,563\n那樣區域他們還是在跟我反映說去年已經好預算也希望你們要去改善這部分可是好像似乎事實上是還是沒有達到沒有解決他們的問題那晚上睡覺的時候還是遭受到很大的痛苦預算我們會努力去爭取最後就還是期待就是說線索的這些場域不要再停留在事半的階段\n\n31\n00:11:18,943 --> 00:11:34,378\n還有非管制塑膠袋的不能用越多因為我們內銷量是在成長所以這個請一個月內是不是可以提出你們現在的具體方案那最後噪音這一塊的話希望守法的人能夠不要吃虧以上謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6318\t31942\t主席有請彭部長林委員好部長早今天想針對於之前我提出預算跟環境部有關的來跟部長討論一下那部長去年我就問過了就是說線索政策到底要怎麼推特別是針對小吃攤菜市場\n32799\t60541\t早餐店和餐廳這四大場域有沒有清楚的期程跟策略結果你們的解讀報告寫說112年比91年減碩大概減量了50%可是針對這四大場域最難推的場域到114年還只是停留在所謂事辦計畫和寫指引的階段你自己最近公開也說2025年的目標有難度那我知道從2018年擴大\n62582\t80402\t現用到14類的業者已經事實上是很重要的進程但現在剩下的就是那個最難推的商家類型所以我想問這些事辦計畫真的能夠撐到2030年能達標嗎有沒有更積極的做法因為我翻遍你們的報告沒有看到\n81341\t110961\t對 報告委員因為其實我自己也都是上街買菜啦那我自己會帶環保袋可是我看到像我這樣做的可能一百個只有一兩個所以這個國人的慣性的動力真的要改變一定要有一個優異的機制那我也觀察到各縣市環保局都也協助配合我們在做但是呢就是辦的那天會這樣做隔了幾天大家都忘記了所以我們跟我們循環署一直在想要用新的方法能夠來解決但是我們現在還沒有一個完全的定案\n111141\t128949\t對 可是怎麼會還在因為我剛剛不想講這樣可是購物袋的現用跟收費政策其實台灣民眾都已經也是習慣了因為很多份的調查都顯示差不多結果將近八成的人知道買東西要自備購物袋不知道要\n129522\t151694\t不然就要自己付錢來買袋子那6成5的民眾是支持2030年全面限售更有超過8成6的民眾是認為說重複使用塑膠袋它事實上是可以做得到的所以這些數據都說明說限售政策的基礎其實在民眾的生活當中已經是穩固那我覺得這也是政策推動的最強的後盾\n153135\t172694\t所以民眾已知然後我們攤商的抗拒也不是很嚴重他給的意見是不送最好因為塑膠袋的成本越來越貴了可是他還是有他們一些問題他兩大困境是不敢不送因為隔壁的商家都在送或者是裝袋很麻煩要跟客人拿袋子來裝袋\n173815\t185007\t那既然有這兩大困難的話那就是希望民眾已知然後攤商有一些困難所以是不是應該可以政策上去考慮\n186107\t204758\t可不可以排定場域去推動有一個順序然後可是這個場域推動的時候要一致性譬如蔡市長要一致性否則的話就像攤商講的隔壁再送我沒有送那我就不對了那可能我的生意會減弱還有請聽他們的需求去解決問題\n205598\t231464\t他增加經濟誘因剛剛部長也提到說要有一些經濟誘因啊可能使得他們會願意去做來降低我們的攤商的成本然後明確制定策略跟目標所以我要請環境部呢事實上兩個月內是不是可以知道你們有沒有更積極的方案不管是分場域分階段可能要有個期程才讓人家知道說這四大場域接下來你會怎麼去\n231926\t245667\t所以要清楚列出時程跟規劃跟成效目標所以部長這部分能不能做到有沒有什麼困難報告委員其實最後一條就是市場啦那這個市場呢其實有一些市場有自發性的做例如說台北市應該是東門市場\n248269\t266518\t南門還是東南門市場他們就是做的有自發性去做這個事但是其他的市場呢就跟如同委員說的就是別人都送啊我就不送啊所以大家都就變成說這個東西只有在某一天推廣的時候會這樣是所以我說有沒有辦法去分你的這個場域之後然後能夠有些期程規劃\n267638\t291265\t不是2030年目標是很難達成的對 報告委員我們現在有一個新的做法就是說我們先找一個可能大家都會去的同溫層例如說花市大家都會去買花也願意去做的然後我們會有一些新的做法再提出來那現在正在演繹當中那這個大概在一兩個月內就會再推出來那我們希望造成一個示範的亮點讓大家能夠真的去省思這個問題所以部長兩個月內可不可以給我\n292645\t314029\t可以可以可以差不多可是剛剛提到線索真的事實上14類事實上是被你們要求這14類業者要配合限量使用就整體的用量卻反而事實上是成長這不代表就政策沒有抓到關鍵嗎我舉兩個例子第一個我們的宅配的包裝袋跟氣泡袋\n314554\t333784\t疫情後事實上這種消費型態改變跟用量暴增你們推出的環保網購的指引2.0還有也說是2026年要達成減量的目標真的能做到嗎第二是PVC的包裝袋雖然便宜透明適合我們的商品展示跟使用但含氫鈾\n335345\t361768\t含那個塑化劑你們雖然在禁止在使用在食品的包裝可是其他的用途有管制嗎是不是有落實呢這些袋子最後還是落在台灣的土地上所以想問部長你怎麼看塑膠袋內銷量的上升這個趨勢這個數字你們怎麼拿來評估整體的那個減售的政策針對這兩個案例部長能不能在有效期限內去達標\n363729\t389640\t跟委員報告那這邊的內銷量他會包括說我們的網購或說有些東西他包裝或外銷的啦那我想除了我們鋼的市場之外其實像科技業或者我們賣場的塑膠袋我們都一起會提出來一些減量的措施對可是我們內銷量是成長的這件事情有沒有辦法因為如果要達到2030年的話去做這樣子的一個減量根本看起來很難達標\n391055\t397360\t整體剛剛14類已經事實上是有被先用可是問題是你內銷的塑膠的製品的話事實上是成長的\n399298\t418463\t那這邊因為會牽扯到說民眾的生活習慣我們會以一個分捐的方式先以獎勵那以這個指引的方式譬如說現在除了我們的刷袋或者是免疫餐具之外其實還有賣場的這個他包裝也很多或者網購包裝那因為網購包裝推動這個循環袋箱需要有一些時間還有他現在的成本是比較高的那這邊我們會來這個逐步來推動再麻煩\n429329\t449756\t很進步再來就是提到那個塑膠袋的用量那我們現在要問的是全球的那個塑膠公約強調有效回收循環再利用可是今天時間有些人不談後端處理所以想問我們的政策真的有幫民眾做好分類嗎台灣有九成以上的民眾都說自己有在做垃圾分類\n450316\t463954\t可是塑膠現在大部分都丟在同一類要細分類的時候大家都常常搞不清楚所以像單一材質的可以回收複合材質不行的這種規則有多少人可以判斷得出來\n465516\t488289\t雖然你們都有推社區公益大廈回收的示範計畫可是大部分都是靠管委會只是公告或現場回收員的那個人員的一些糾正可是塑膠材質這麼多標示又不清楚大家都覺得有心可是又沒有辦法所以是不是可以就是就想問是說現在真的有落實這樣子的一個前頭\n489550\t501548\t源頭管理廠商能夠標示清楚然後呢讓民眾能夠有接受到你們的訊息真的讓民眾知道這些怎麼去做分類這樣能夠做到正確分類\n503763\t532078\t各位報告那民眾他要丟出這些塑膠的製品有幾種方式啊那像如果是說他是給這個回收車因為他家裡的空間不多所以他只能夠分說容器類一大類然後讓青年隊去分類但是他也可以到賣場或者說我們有些現在有個自動回收機那那個部分就可以比較對塑膠有些比較好的分類方式可是還是希望環境部可以加強宣導真的很多人事實上是不太理解\n532626\t556514\t這一塊這麼細分類只是大分類而已我們有看到一些國外做得好他分類的項目多到很多啦但是我們國人其實要往下走下一步的確分類的方式跟他的這個定義我們的確有增進的空間請環境部再好好的想一想怎麼讓民眾得到這樣的一個訊息那最後就是想問的是因為這也是在預算的時候\n557094\t580143\t我就有提出來 以桃園省道為例來提醒過機車的噪音問題非常嚴重 影響到民眾的安寧這一年來 環境部推動排氣管的認證制度也是助地方加強我們的聲音的照相執法這部分非常值得肯認可是後續還是有幾個問題要改善第一個 很多人預約排檢就是我要預約檢驗卻排不到\n583864\t612075\t那車照樣在路上跑地方環保局只能先不罰結果還是守法的民眾事實上是反而吃虧第二聲音照相的設置地點好像目前都集中在飆車族出沒的區域可是民眾真正投訴的熱點呢反而沒有裝設所以現在罰單上還是沒有去負那個分倍數的數據的爭議這會影響到整體的公信力制度的公信力所以是不是我考\n612495\t626661\t我覺得建議兩項就是擴充我們的檢驗的量能也應該設計回檢的那個機制讓民眾知道不是通過一次我們認證就可以永久改裝使用第二事實上是公開我們設\n628822\t657174\t點的邏輯也就是加強佈建設備要裝在真正民院的地方而不是在飆車組的地方所以請問部長這些建議是不是可以落實可以那這個因為那個一個站也是要100多萬所以我們也要爭取預算能夠來協助地方能夠多設置一點那委員因為過去都是飆車組的熱點那委員說的這個民眾老民的點因為最近我們也收到一些民眾他說那個點不是他生活的這個點 是 桃園我們\n657674\t678563\t那樣區域他們還是在跟我反映說去年已經好預算也希望你們要去改善這部分可是好像似乎事實上是還是沒有達到沒有解決他們的問題那晚上睡覺的時候還是遭受到很大的痛苦預算我們會努力去爭取最後就還是期待就是說線索的這些場域不要再停留在事半的階段\n678943\t694378\t還有非管制塑膠袋的不能用越多因為我們內銷量是在成長所以這個請一個月內是不是可以提出你們現在的具體方案那最後噪音這一塊的話希望守法的人能夠不要吃虧以上謝謝部長\n","txt":"主席有請彭部長林委員好部長早今天想針對於之前我提出預算跟環境部有關的來跟部長討論一下那部長去年我就問過了就是說線索政策到底要怎麼推特別是針對小吃攤菜市場\n早餐店和餐廳這四大場域有沒有清楚的期程跟策略結果你們的解讀報告寫說112年比91年減碩大概減量了50%可是針對這四大場域最難推的場域到114年還只是停留在所謂事辦計畫和寫指引的階段你自己最近公開也說2025年的目標有難度那我知道從2018年擴大\n現用到14類的業者已經事實上是很重要的進程但現在剩下的就是那個最難推的商家類型所以我想問這些事辦計畫真的能夠撐到2030年能達標嗎有沒有更積極的做法因為我翻遍你們的報告沒有看到\n對 報告委員因為其實我自己也都是上街買菜啦那我自己會帶環保袋可是我看到像我這樣做的可能一百個只有一兩個所以這個國人的慣性的動力真的要改變一定要有一個優異的機制那我也觀察到各縣市環保局都也協助配合我們在做但是呢就是辦的那天會這樣做隔了幾天大家都忘記了所以我們跟我們循環署一直在想要用新的方法能夠來解決但是我們現在還沒有一個完全的定案\n對 可是怎麼會還在因為我剛剛不想講這樣可是購物袋的現用跟收費政策其實台灣民眾都已經也是習慣了因為很多份的調查都顯示差不多結果將近八成的人知道買東西要自備購物袋不知道要\n不然就要自己付錢來買袋子那6成5的民眾是支持2030年全面限售更有超過8成6的民眾是認為說重複使用塑膠袋它事實上是可以做得到的所以這些數據都說明說限售政策的基礎其實在民眾的生活當中已經是穩固那我覺得這也是政策推動的最強的後盾\n所以民眾已知然後我們攤商的抗拒也不是很嚴重他給的意見是不送最好因為塑膠袋的成本越來越貴了可是他還是有他們一些問題他兩大困境是不敢不送因為隔壁的商家都在送或者是裝袋很麻煩要跟客人拿袋子來裝袋\n那既然有這兩大困難的話那就是希望民眾已知然後攤商有一些困難所以是不是應該可以政策上去考慮\n可不可以排定場域去推動有一個順序然後可是這個場域推動的時候要一致性譬如蔡市長要一致性否則的話就像攤商講的隔壁再送我沒有送那我就不對了那可能我的生意會減弱還有請聽他們的需求去解決問題\n他增加經濟誘因剛剛部長也提到說要有一些經濟誘因啊可能使得他們會願意去做來降低我們的攤商的成本然後明確制定策略跟目標所以我要請環境部呢事實上兩個月內是不是可以知道你們有沒有更積極的方案不管是分場域分階段可能要有個期程才讓人家知道說這四大場域接下來你會怎麼去\n所以要清楚列出時程跟規劃跟成效目標所以部長這部分能不能做到有沒有什麼困難報告委員其實最後一條就是市場啦那這個市場呢其實有一些市場有自發性的做例如說台北市應該是東門市場\n南門還是東南門市場他們就是做的有自發性去做這個事但是其他的市場呢就跟如同委員說的就是別人都送啊我就不送啊所以大家都就變成說這個東西只有在某一天推廣的時候會這樣是所以我說有沒有辦法去分你的這個場域之後然後能夠有些期程規劃\n不是2030年目標是很難達成的對 報告委員我們現在有一個新的做法就是說我們先找一個可能大家都會去的同溫層例如說花市大家都會去買花也願意去做的然後我們會有一些新的做法再提出來那現在正在演繹當中那這個大概在一兩個月內就會再推出來那我們希望造成一個示範的亮點讓大家能夠真的去省思這個問題所以部長兩個月內可不可以給我\n可以可以可以差不多可是剛剛提到線索真的事實上14類事實上是被你們要求這14類業者要配合限量使用就整體的用量卻反而事實上是成長這不代表就政策沒有抓到關鍵嗎我舉兩個例子第一個我們的宅配的包裝袋跟氣泡袋\n疫情後事實上這種消費型態改變跟用量暴增你們推出的環保網購的指引2.0還有也說是2026年要達成減量的目標真的能做到嗎第二是PVC的包裝袋雖然便宜透明適合我們的商品展示跟使用但含氫鈾\n含那個塑化劑你們雖然在禁止在使用在食品的包裝可是其他的用途有管制嗎是不是有落實呢這些袋子最後還是落在台灣的土地上所以想問部長你怎麼看塑膠袋內銷量的上升這個趨勢這個數字你們怎麼拿來評估整體的那個減售的政策針對這兩個案例部長能不能在有效期限內去達標\n跟委員報告那這邊的內銷量他會包括說我們的網購或說有些東西他包裝或外銷的啦那我想除了我們鋼的市場之外其實像科技業或者我們賣場的塑膠袋我們都一起會提出來一些減量的措施對可是我們內銷量是成長的這件事情有沒有辦法因為如果要達到2030年的話去做這樣子的一個減量根本看起來很難達標\n整體剛剛14類已經事實上是有被先用可是問題是你內銷的塑膠的製品的話事實上是成長的\n那這邊因為會牽扯到說民眾的生活習慣我們會以一個分捐的方式先以獎勵那以這個指引的方式譬如說現在除了我們的刷袋或者是免疫餐具之外其實還有賣場的這個他包裝也很多或者網購包裝那因為網購包裝推動這個循環袋箱需要有一些時間還有他現在的成本是比較高的那這邊我們會來這個逐步來推動再麻煩\n很進步再來就是提到那個塑膠袋的用量那我們現在要問的是全球的那個塑膠公約強調有效回收循環再利用可是今天時間有些人不談後端處理所以想問我們的政策真的有幫民眾做好分類嗎台灣有九成以上的民眾都說自己有在做垃圾分類\n可是塑膠現在大部分都丟在同一類要細分類的時候大家都常常搞不清楚所以像單一材質的可以回收複合材質不行的這種規則有多少人可以判斷得出來\n雖然你們都有推社區公益大廈回收的示範計畫可是大部分都是靠管委會只是公告或現場回收員的那個人員的一些糾正可是塑膠材質這麼多標示又不清楚大家都覺得有心可是又沒有辦法所以是不是可以就是就想問是說現在真的有落實這樣子的一個前頭\n源頭管理廠商能夠標示清楚然後呢讓民眾能夠有接受到你們的訊息真的讓民眾知道這些怎麼去做分類這樣能夠做到正確分類\n各位報告那民眾他要丟出這些塑膠的製品有幾種方式啊那像如果是說他是給這個回收車因為他家裡的空間不多所以他只能夠分說容器類一大類然後讓青年隊去分類但是他也可以到賣場或者說我們有些現在有個自動回收機那那個部分就可以比較對塑膠有些比較好的分類方式可是還是希望環境部可以加強宣導真的很多人事實上是不太理解\n這一塊這麼細分類只是大分類而已我們有看到一些國外做得好他分類的項目多到很多啦但是我們國人其實要往下走下一步的確分類的方式跟他的這個定義我們的確有增進的空間請環境部再好好的想一想怎麼讓民眾得到這樣的一個訊息那最後就是想問的是因為這也是在預算的時候\n我就有提出來 以桃園省道為例來提醒過機車的噪音問題非常嚴重 影響到民眾的安寧這一年來 環境部推動排氣管的認證制度也是助地方加強我們的聲音的照相執法這部分非常值得肯認可是後續還是有幾個問題要改善第一個 很多人預約排檢就是我要預約檢驗卻排不到\n那車照樣在路上跑地方環保局只能先不罰結果還是守法的民眾事實上是反而吃虧第二聲音照相的設置地點好像目前都集中在飆車族出沒的區域可是民眾真正投訴的熱點呢反而沒有裝設所以現在罰單上還是沒有去負那個分倍數的數據的爭議這會影響到整體的公信力制度的公信力所以是不是我考\n我覺得建議兩項就是擴充我們的檢驗的量能也應該設計回檢的那個機制讓民眾知道不是通過一次我們認證就可以永久改裝使用第二事實上是公開我們設\n點的邏輯也就是加強佈建設備要裝在真正民院的地方而不是在飆車組的地方所以請問部長這些建議是不是可以落實可以那這個因為那個一個站也是要100多萬所以我們也要爭取預算能夠來協助地方能夠多設置一點那委員因為過去都是飆車組的熱點那委員說的這個民眾老民的點因為最近我們也收到一些民眾他說那個點不是他生活的這個點 是 桃園我們\n那樣區域他們還是在跟我反映說去年已經好預算也希望你們要去改善這部分可是好像似乎事實上是還是沒有達到沒有解決他們的問題那晚上睡覺的時候還是遭受到很大的痛苦預算我們會努力去爭取最後就還是期待就是說線索的這些場域不要再停留在事半的階段\n還有非管制塑膠袋的不能用越多因為我們內銷量是在成長所以這個請一個月內是不是可以提出你們現在的具體方案那最後噪音這一塊的話希望守法的人能夠不要吃虧以上謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.318 --> 00:31.942\n主席有請彭部長林委員好部長早今天想針對於之前我提出預算跟環境部有關的來跟部長討論一下那部長去年我就問過了就是說線索政策到底要怎麼推特別是針對小吃攤菜市場\n\n00:32.799 --> 01:00.541\n早餐店和餐廳這四大場域有沒有清楚的期程跟策略結果你們的解讀報告寫說112年比91年減碩大概減量了50%可是針對這四大場域最難推的場域到114年還只是停留在所謂事辦計畫和寫指引的階段你自己最近公開也說2025年的目標有難度那我知道從2018年擴大\n\n01:02.582 --> 01:20.402\n現用到14類的業者已經事實上是很重要的進程但現在剩下的就是那個最難推的商家類型所以我想問這些事辦計畫真的能夠撐到2030年能達標嗎有沒有更積極的做法因為我翻遍你們的報告沒有看到\n\n01:21.341 --> 01:50.961\n對報告委員因為其實我自己也都是上街買菜啦那我自己會帶環保袋可是我看到像我這樣做的可能一百個只有一兩個所以這個國人的慣性的動力真的要改變一定要有一個優異的機制那我也觀察到各縣市環保局都也協助配合我們在做但是呢就是辦的那天會這樣做隔了幾天大家都忘記了所以我們跟我們循環署一直在想要用新的方法能夠來解決但是我們現在還沒有一個完全的定案\n\n01:51.141 --> 02:08.949\n對可是怎麼會還在因為我剛剛不想講這樣可是購物袋的現用跟收費政策其實台灣民眾都已經也是習慣了因為很多份的調查都顯示差不多結果將近八成的人知道買東西要自備購物袋不知道要\n\n02:09.522 --> 02:31.694\n不然就要自己付錢來買袋子那6成5的民眾是支持2030年全面限售更有超過8成6的民眾是認為說重複使用塑膠袋它事實上是可以做得到的所以這些數據都說明說限售政策的基礎其實在民眾的生活當中已經是穩固那我覺得這也是政策推動的最強的後盾\n\n02:33.135 --> 02:52.694\n所以民眾已知然後我們攤商的抗拒也不是很嚴重他給的意見是不送最好因為塑膠袋的成本越來越貴了可是他還是有他們一些問題他兩大困境是不敢不送因為隔壁的商家都在送或者是裝袋很麻煩要跟客人拿袋子來裝袋\n\n02:53.815 --> 03:05.007\n那既然有這兩大困難的話那就是希望民眾已知然後攤商有一些困難所以是不是應該可以政策上去考慮\n\n03:06.107 --> 03:24.758\n可不可以排定場域去推動有一個順序然後可是這個場域推動的時候要一致性譬如蔡市長要一致性否則的話就像攤商講的隔壁再送我沒有送那我就不對了那可能我的生意會減弱還有請聽他們的需求去解決問題\n\n03:25.598 --> 03:51.464\n他增加經濟誘因剛剛部長也提到說要有一些經濟誘因啊可能使得他們會願意去做來降低我們的攤商的成本然後明確制定策略跟目標所以我要請環境部呢事實上兩個月內是不是可以知道你們有沒有更積極的方案不管是分場域分階段可能要有個期程才讓人家知道說這四大場域接下來你會怎麼去\n\n03:51.926 --> 04:05.667\n所以要清楚列出時程跟規劃跟成效目標所以部長這部分能不能做到有沒有什麼困難報告委員其實最後一條就是市場啦那這個市場呢其實有一些市場有自發性的做例如說台北市應該是東門市場\n\n04:08.269 --> 04:26.518\n南門還是東南門市場他們就是做的有自發性去做這個事但是其他的市場呢就跟如同委員說的就是別人都送啊我就不送啊所以大家都就變成說這個東西只有在某一天推廣的時候會這樣是所以我說有沒有辦法去分你的這個場域之後然後能夠有些期程規劃\n\n04:27.638 --> 04:51.265\n不是2030年目標是很難達成的對報告委員我們現在有一個新的做法就是說我們先找一個可能大家都會去的同溫層例如說花市大家都會去買花也願意去做的然後我們會有一些新的做法再提出來那現在正在演繹當中那這個大概在一兩個月內就會再推出來那我們希望造成一個示範的亮點讓大家能夠真的去省思這個問題所以部長兩個月內可不可以給我\n\n04:52.645 --> 05:14.029\n可以可以可以差不多可是剛剛提到線索真的事實上14類事實上是被你們要求這14類業者要配合限量使用就整體的用量卻反而事實上是成長這不代表就政策沒有抓到關鍵嗎我舉兩個例子第一個我們的宅配的包裝袋跟氣泡袋\n\n05:14.554 --> 05:33.784\n疫情後事實上這種消費型態改變跟用量暴增你們推出的環保網購的指引2.0還有也說是2026年要達成減量的目標真的能做到嗎第二是PVC的包裝袋雖然便宜透明適合我們的商品展示跟使用但含氫鈾\n\n05:35.345 --> 06:01.768\n含那個塑化劑你們雖然在禁止在使用在食品的包裝可是其他的用途有管制嗎是不是有落實呢這些袋子最後還是落在台灣的土地上所以想問部長你怎麼看塑膠袋內銷量的上升這個趨勢這個數字你們怎麼拿來評估整體的那個減售的政策針對這兩個案例部長能不能在有效期限內去達標\n\n06:03.729 --> 06:29.640\n跟委員報告那這邊的內銷量他會包括說我們的網購或說有些東西他包裝或外銷的啦那我想除了我們鋼的市場之外其實像科技業或者我們賣場的塑膠袋我們都一起會提出來一些減量的措施對可是我們內銷量是成長的這件事情有沒有辦法因為如果要達到2030年的話去做這樣子的一個減量根本看起來很難達標\n\n06:31.055 --> 06:37.360\n整體剛剛14類已經事實上是有被先用可是問題是你內銷的塑膠的製品的話事實上是成長的\n\n06:39.298 --> 06:58.463\n那這邊因為會牽扯到說民眾的生活習慣我們會以一個分捐的方式先以獎勵那以這個指引的方式譬如說現在除了我們的刷袋或者是免疫餐具之外其實還有賣場的這個他包裝也很多或者網購包裝那因為網購包裝推動這個循環袋箱需要有一些時間還有他現在的成本是比較高的那這邊我們會來這個逐步來推動再麻煩\n\n07:09.329 --> 07:29.756\n很進步再來就是提到那個塑膠袋的用量那我們現在要問的是全球的那個塑膠公約強調有效回收循環再利用可是今天時間有些人不談後端處理所以想問我們的政策真的有幫民眾做好分類嗎台灣有九成以上的民眾都說自己有在做垃圾分類\n\n07:30.316 --> 07:43.954\n可是塑膠現在大部分都丟在同一類要細分類的時候大家都常常搞不清楚所以像單一材質的可以回收複合材質不行的這種規則有多少人可以判斷得出來\n\n07:45.516 --> 08:08.289\n雖然你們都有推社區公益大廈回收的示範計畫可是大部分都是靠管委會只是公告或現場回收員的那個人員的一些糾正可是塑膠材質這麼多標示又不清楚大家都覺得有心可是又沒有辦法所以是不是可以就是就想問是說現在真的有落實這樣子的一個前頭\n\n08:09.550 --> 08:21.548\n源頭管理廠商能夠標示清楚然後呢讓民眾能夠有接受到你們的訊息真的讓民眾知道這些怎麼去做分類這樣能夠做到正確分類\n\n08:23.763 --> 08:52.078\n各位報告那民眾他要丟出這些塑膠的製品有幾種方式啊那像如果是說他是給這個回收車因為他家裡的空間不多所以他只能夠分說容器類一大類然後讓青年隊去分類但是他也可以到賣場或者說我們有些現在有個自動回收機那那個部分就可以比較對塑膠有些比較好的分類方式可是還是希望環境部可以加強宣導真的很多人事實上是不太理解\n\n08:52.626 --> 09:16.514\n這一塊這麼細分類只是大分類而已我們有看到一些國外做得好他分類的項目多到很多啦但是我們國人其實要往下走下一步的確分類的方式跟他的這個定義我們的確有增進的空間請環境部再好好的想一想怎麼讓民眾得到這樣的一個訊息那最後就是想問的是因為這也是在預算的時候\n\n09:17.094 --> 09:40.143\n我就有提出來以桃園省道為例來提醒過機車的噪音問題非常嚴重影響到民眾的安寧這一年來環境部推動排氣管的認證制度也是助地方加強我們的聲音的照相執法這部分非常值得肯認可是後續還是有幾個問題要改善第一個很多人預約排檢就是我要預約檢驗卻排不到\n\n09:43.864 --> 10:12.075\n那車照樣在路上跑地方環保局只能先不罰結果還是守法的民眾事實上是反而吃虧第二聲音照相的設置地點好像目前都集中在飆車族出沒的區域可是民眾真正投訴的熱點呢反而沒有裝設所以現在罰單上還是沒有去負那個分倍數的數據的爭議這會影響到整體的公信力制度的公信力所以是不是我考\n\n10:12.495 --> 10:26.661\n我覺得建議兩項就是擴充我們的檢驗的量能也應該設計回檢的那個機制讓民眾知道不是通過一次我們認證就可以永久改裝使用第二事實上是公開我們設\n\n10:28.822 --> 10:57.174\n點的邏輯也就是加強佈建設備要裝在真正民院的地方而不是在飆車組的地方所以請問部長這些建議是不是可以落實可以那這個因為那個一個站也是要100多萬所以我們也要爭取預算能夠來協助地方能夠多設置一點那委員因為過去都是飆車組的熱點那委員說的這個民眾老民的點因為最近我們也收到一些民眾他說那個點不是他生活的這個點是桃園我們\n\n10:57.674 --> 11:18.563\n那樣區域他們還是在跟我反映說去年已經好預算也希望你們要去改善這部分可是好像似乎事實上是還是沒有達到沒有解決他們的問題那晚上睡覺的時候還是遭受到很大的痛苦預算我們會努力去爭取最後就還是期待就是說線索的這些場域不要再停留在事半的階段\n\n11:18.943 --> 11:34.378\n還有非管制塑膠袋的不能用越多因為我們內銷量是在成長所以這個請一個月內是不是可以提出你們現在的具體方案那最後噪音這一塊的話希望守法的人能夠不要吃虧以上謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.318,"end":31.942,"text":"主席有請彭部長林委員好部長早今天想針對於之前我提出預算跟環境部有關的來跟部長討論一下那部長去年我就問過了就是說線索政策到底要怎麼推特別是針對小吃攤菜市場"},{"start":32.799,"end":60.541,"text":"早餐店和餐廳這四大場域有沒有清楚的期程跟策略結果你們的解讀報告寫說112年比91年減碩大概減量了50%可是針對這四大場域最難推的場域到114年還只是停留在所謂事辦計畫和寫指引的階段你自己最近公開也說2025年的目標有難度那我知道從2018年擴大"},{"start":62.582,"end":80.402,"text":"現用到14類的業者已經事實上是很重要的進程但現在剩下的就是那個最難推的商家類型所以我想問這些事辦計畫真的能夠撐到2030年能達標嗎有沒有更積極的做法因為我翻遍你們的報告沒有看到"},{"start":81.341,"end":110.961,"text":"對 報告委員因為其實我自己也都是上街買菜啦那我自己會帶環保袋可是我看到像我這樣做的可能一百個只有一兩個所以這個國人的慣性的動力真的要改變一定要有一個優異的機制那我也觀察到各縣市環保局都也協助配合我們在做但是呢就是辦的那天會這樣做隔了幾天大家都忘記了所以我們跟我們循環署一直在想要用新的方法能夠來解決但是我們現在還沒有一個完全的定案"},{"start":111.141,"end":128.949,"text":"對 可是怎麼會還在因為我剛剛不想講這樣可是購物袋的現用跟收費政策其實台灣民眾都已經也是習慣了因為很多份的調查都顯示差不多結果將近八成的人知道買東西要自備購物袋不知道要"},{"start":129.522,"end":151.694,"text":"不然就要自己付錢來買袋子那6成5的民眾是支持2030年全面限售更有超過8成6的民眾是認為說重複使用塑膠袋它事實上是可以做得到的所以這些數據都說明說限售政策的基礎其實在民眾的生活當中已經是穩固那我覺得這也是政策推動的最強的後盾"},{"start":153.135,"end":172.694,"text":"所以民眾已知然後我們攤商的抗拒也不是很嚴重他給的意見是不送最好因為塑膠袋的成本越來越貴了可是他還是有他們一些問題他兩大困境是不敢不送因為隔壁的商家都在送或者是裝袋很麻煩要跟客人拿袋子來裝袋"},{"start":173.815,"end":185.007,"text":"那既然有這兩大困難的話那就是希望民眾已知然後攤商有一些困難所以是不是應該可以政策上去考慮"},{"start":186.107,"end":204.758,"text":"可不可以排定場域去推動有一個順序然後可是這個場域推動的時候要一致性譬如蔡市長要一致性否則的話就像攤商講的隔壁再送我沒有送那我就不對了那可能我的生意會減弱還有請聽他們的需求去解決問題"},{"start":205.598,"end":231.464,"text":"他增加經濟誘因剛剛部長也提到說要有一些經濟誘因啊可能使得他們會願意去做來降低我們的攤商的成本然後明確制定策略跟目標所以我要請環境部呢事實上兩個月內是不是可以知道你們有沒有更積極的方案不管是分場域分階段可能要有個期程才讓人家知道說這四大場域接下來你會怎麼去"},{"start":231.926,"end":245.667,"text":"所以要清楚列出時程跟規劃跟成效目標所以部長這部分能不能做到有沒有什麼困難報告委員其實最後一條就是市場啦那這個市場呢其實有一些市場有自發性的做例如說台北市應該是東門市場"},{"start":248.269,"end":266.518,"text":"南門還是東南門市場他們就是做的有自發性去做這個事但是其他的市場呢就跟如同委員說的就是別人都送啊我就不送啊所以大家都就變成說這個東西只有在某一天推廣的時候會這樣是所以我說有沒有辦法去分你的這個場域之後然後能夠有些期程規劃"},{"start":267.638,"end":291.265,"text":"不是2030年目標是很難達成的對 報告委員我們現在有一個新的做法就是說我們先找一個可能大家都會去的同溫層例如說花市大家都會去買花也願意去做的然後我們會有一些新的做法再提出來那現在正在演繹當中那這個大概在一兩個月內就會再推出來那我們希望造成一個示範的亮點讓大家能夠真的去省思這個問題所以部長兩個月內可不可以給我"},{"start":292.645,"end":314.029,"text":"可以可以可以差不多可是剛剛提到線索真的事實上14類事實上是被你們要求這14類業者要配合限量使用就整體的用量卻反而事實上是成長這不代表就政策沒有抓到關鍵嗎我舉兩個例子第一個我們的宅配的包裝袋跟氣泡袋"},{"start":314.554,"end":333.784,"text":"疫情後事實上這種消費型態改變跟用量暴增你們推出的環保網購的指引2.0還有也說是2026年要達成減量的目標真的能做到嗎第二是PVC的包裝袋雖然便宜透明適合我們的商品展示跟使用但含氫鈾"},{"start":335.345,"end":361.768,"text":"含那個塑化劑你們雖然在禁止在使用在食品的包裝可是其他的用途有管制嗎是不是有落實呢這些袋子最後還是落在台灣的土地上所以想問部長你怎麼看塑膠袋內銷量的上升這個趨勢這個數字你們怎麼拿來評估整體的那個減售的政策針對這兩個案例部長能不能在有效期限內去達標"},{"start":363.729,"end":389.64,"text":"跟委員報告那這邊的內銷量他會包括說我們的網購或說有些東西他包裝或外銷的啦那我想除了我們鋼的市場之外其實像科技業或者我們賣場的塑膠袋我們都一起會提出來一些減量的措施對可是我們內銷量是成長的這件事情有沒有辦法因為如果要達到2030年的話去做這樣子的一個減量根本看起來很難達標"},{"start":391.055,"end":397.36,"text":"整體剛剛14類已經事實上是有被先用可是問題是你內銷的塑膠的製品的話事實上是成長的"},{"start":399.298,"end":418.463,"text":"那這邊因為會牽扯到說民眾的生活習慣我們會以一個分捐的方式先以獎勵那以這個指引的方式譬如說現在除了我們的刷袋或者是免疫餐具之外其實還有賣場的這個他包裝也很多或者網購包裝那因為網購包裝推動這個循環袋箱需要有一些時間還有他現在的成本是比較高的那這邊我們會來這個逐步來推動再麻煩"},{"start":429.329,"end":449.756,"text":"很進步再來就是提到那個塑膠袋的用量那我們現在要問的是全球的那個塑膠公約強調有效回收循環再利用可是今天時間有些人不談後端處理所以想問我們的政策真的有幫民眾做好分類嗎台灣有九成以上的民眾都說自己有在做垃圾分類"},{"start":450.316,"end":463.954,"text":"可是塑膠現在大部分都丟在同一類要細分類的時候大家都常常搞不清楚所以像單一材質的可以回收複合材質不行的這種規則有多少人可以判斷得出來"},{"start":465.516,"end":488.289,"text":"雖然你們都有推社區公益大廈回收的示範計畫可是大部分都是靠管委會只是公告或現場回收員的那個人員的一些糾正可是塑膠材質這麼多標示又不清楚大家都覺得有心可是又沒有辦法所以是不是可以就是就想問是說現在真的有落實這樣子的一個前頭"},{"start":489.55,"end":501.548,"text":"源頭管理廠商能夠標示清楚然後呢讓民眾能夠有接受到你們的訊息真的讓民眾知道這些怎麼去做分類這樣能夠做到正確分類"},{"start":503.763,"end":532.078,"text":"各位報告那民眾他要丟出這些塑膠的製品有幾種方式啊那像如果是說他是給這個回收車因為他家裡的空間不多所以他只能夠分說容器類一大類然後讓青年隊去分類但是他也可以到賣場或者說我們有些現在有個自動回收機那那個部分就可以比較對塑膠有些比較好的分類方式可是還是希望環境部可以加強宣導真的很多人事實上是不太理解"},{"start":532.626,"end":556.514,"text":"這一塊這麼細分類只是大分類而已我們有看到一些國外做得好他分類的項目多到很多啦但是我們國人其實要往下走下一步的確分類的方式跟他的這個定義我們的確有增進的空間請環境部再好好的想一想怎麼讓民眾得到這樣的一個訊息那最後就是想問的是因為這也是在預算的時候"},{"start":557.094,"end":580.143,"text":"我就有提出來 以桃園省道為例來提醒過機車的噪音問題非常嚴重 影響到民眾的安寧這一年來 環境部推動排氣管的認證制度也是助地方加強我們的聲音的照相執法這部分非常值得肯認可是後續還是有幾個問題要改善第一個 很多人預約排檢就是我要預約檢驗卻排不到"},{"start":583.864,"end":612.075,"text":"那車照樣在路上跑地方環保局只能先不罰結果還是守法的民眾事實上是反而吃虧第二聲音照相的設置地點好像目前都集中在飆車族出沒的區域可是民眾真正投訴的熱點呢反而沒有裝設所以現在罰單上還是沒有去負那個分倍數的數據的爭議這會影響到整體的公信力制度的公信力所以是不是我考"},{"start":612.495,"end":626.661,"text":"我覺得建議兩項就是擴充我們的檢驗的量能也應該設計回檢的那個機制讓民眾知道不是通過一次我們認證就可以永久改裝使用第二事實上是公開我們設"},{"start":628.822,"end":657.174,"text":"點的邏輯也就是加強佈建設備要裝在真正民院的地方而不是在飆車組的地方所以請問部長這些建議是不是可以落實可以那這個因為那個一個站也是要100多萬所以我們也要爭取預算能夠來協助地方能夠多設置一點那委員因為過去都是飆車組的熱點那委員說的這個民眾老民的點因為最近我們也收到一些民眾他說那個點不是他生活的這個點 是 桃園我們"},{"start":657.674,"end":678.563,"text":"那樣區域他們還是在跟我反映說去年已經好預算也希望你們要去改善這部分可是好像似乎事實上是還是沒有達到沒有解決他們的問題那晚上睡覺的時候還是遭受到很大的痛苦預算我們會努力去爭取最後就還是期待就是說線索的這些場域不要再停留在事半的階段"},{"start":678.943,"end":694.378,"text":"還有非管制塑膠袋的不能用越多因為我們內銷量是在成長所以這個請一個月內是不是可以提出你們現在的具體方案那最後噪音這一塊的話希望守法的人能夠不要吃虧以上謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":421,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時33分）主席，有請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：林委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。今天想針對之前我提出的預算，跟環境部有關的部分來跟部長討論一下。部長，去年我就問過了，限塑政策到底要怎麼推，特別是針對小吃攤、菜市場、早餐店和餐廳，這四大場域有沒有清楚的期程跟策略？結果你們的解凍報告寫說，跟91年比，112年減塑大概減量了50%，可是針對這四大場域，最難推的場域到114年還只是停留在所謂試辦計畫和寫指引的階段，你自己最近也公開說2025年的目標有難度。我知道從2018年擴大限用到14類的業者，事實上已經是很重要的進程，但現在剩下的就是最難推的商家類型，所以我想問這些試辦計畫到2030年真的能夠達標嗎？有沒有更積極的作法？因為我們翻遍你們的報告都沒有看到。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為其實我自己也都是上街買菜，我自己會帶環保袋，可是我看到像我這樣做的，可能100個只有1、2個，所以國人的慣性動力真的要改變，一定要有一個誘因的機制。我也觀察到各縣市環保局也都有協助、配合我們在做，但是就是辦的那天會這樣做，隔了幾天大家都忘記了，所以我們跟循環署一直想要用新的方法來解決，但是我們現在還沒有完全定案。"],["林委員月琴：對，可是怎麼會還在試辦？雖然剛剛部長這樣講，可是購物袋的限用跟收費政策，其實臺灣民眾都已經習慣了，很多份的調查都顯示差不多的結果，將近八成的人知道買東西要自備購物袋，不然就要自己付錢買袋子。有六成五的民眾是支持2030年全面限塑的，更有超過八成六的民眾認為重複使用塑膠袋，他事實上是可以做得到的。這些數據都說明限塑政策的基礎，其實在民眾的生活當中已經是穩固的，我覺得這也是政策推動的最強後盾，民眾是已知的，然後我們攤商的抗拒也不是很嚴重。他們給的意見是不送最好，因為塑膠袋的成本越來越貴了，可是他們還是有一些問題，兩大困境是不敢不送，因為隔壁的商家都在送，或者是裝袋很麻煩，因為要跟客人拿袋子來裝袋。","既然有這兩大困難，就是雖然民眾已知，但是攤商有一些困難，是不是應該可以在政策上去考慮？可不可以排定場域去推動，然後有一個順序？可是這個場域推動的時候要有一致性，譬如菜市場你要有一致性，否則的話，就像攤商講的，隔壁在送，我沒有送，那就是我不對了，可能我的生意會減弱。還有要傾聽他們的需求，去解決問題，去增加經濟誘因，剛剛部長也提到要有一些經濟誘因，使他們願意去做，來降低攤商的成本，然後明確制定策略跟目標。所以我要請問環境部，是不是可以在兩個月內讓我知道你們有沒有更積極的方案？不管是分場域還是分階段，可能要有個期程，才能讓人家知道這四大場域接下來會怎麼去推動，所以要清楚列出時程、規劃、成效、目標，部長這部分能不能做到？有沒有什麼困難？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實最後一哩路就是市場，有一些市場有自發性在做，例如臺北市的南門市場，他們有自發性地去做這個事，但是其他的市場就如同委員說的，就是會說別人都送，我不能不送，就變成這個東西只有在某一天推廣的時候會這樣做。"],["林委員月琴：是，所以我說有沒有辦法去區分出場域之後，能夠有一些期程規劃，否則2030年的目標是很難達成的。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們現在有一個新的作法，譬如我們先找一個可能大家都會去的同溫層，例如花市，大家都會去買花，也願意去做的，然後我們會再提出一些新的作法，現在正在研議當中，大概在一、兩個月內就會推出，我們希望做成一個示範的亮點，讓大家能夠真的去省思這個問題。"],["林委員月琴：所以部長，兩個月內可不可以給我資料，讓我知道這些？"],["彭部長啓明：可以，差不多。"],["林委員月琴：可是剛剛提到限塑，事實上被你們要求的這14類業者配合限量使用後，整體的用量反而是成長的，這不就是代表政策沒有抓到關鍵嗎？我舉兩個例子，第一個，我們宅配的包裝袋跟氣泡袋，事實上在疫情後消費型態改變，用量暴增，你們推出的環保網購指引2.0，還有2026年要達成減量的目標，真的能做到嗎？第二是PVC的包裝袋，雖然便宜、透明，適合我們的商品展示跟使用，但含塑化劑，你們雖然禁止使用在食品的包裝上，可是其他的用途有管制嗎？是不是有落實？這些袋子最後還是落在臺灣的土地上，所以想問部長，你怎麼看塑膠袋內銷量上升的這個趨勢？這個數字你們怎麼拿來評估整體的減塑政策？針對這兩個案例，部長能不能在有效期限內去達標？"],["賴司長瑩瑩：跟委員報告，這邊的內銷量，包括網購，或者有些東西是包裝後外銷的，我想除了我們剛剛說的市場之外，其實像科技業或者賣場的塑膠袋，我們都會一起提出一些減量的措施。"],["林委員月琴：對，可是我們的內銷量是成長的，這件事情有沒有辦法解決？因為你如果要達到2030年的目標的話，只做這樣子的減量，看起來根本很難達標，因為剛剛說的14類業者，事實上已經是被限用，可是問題是你內銷的塑膠製品是成長的。"],["賴司長瑩瑩：因為會牽涉到民眾的生活習慣，我們會以一個分階段的方式，先以獎勵、以指引的方式，譬如現在除了我們的塑膠袋或者是免洗餐具之外，其實還有賣場的包裝或者網購包裝也很多。因為網購包裝推動循環袋箱需要一些時間，還有它現在的成本是比較高的，我們會逐步來推動。"],["林委員月琴：好，再麻煩環境部。再來，提到塑膠袋的用量，全球的塑膠公約強調有效回收、循環再利用，今天時間有限，我們不談後端處理，所以想問我們的政策真的有幫民眾做好分類嗎？臺灣有九成以上的民眾都說自己有在做垃圾分類，可是塑膠現在大部分都丟在同一類，要細分類的時候大家常常都搞不清楚，像單一材質的可以回收、複合材質的不行，這種規則有多少人可以判斷得出來？你們雖然都有推社區公寓大廈回收的示範計畫，可是大部分都只是靠管委會公告，或現場回收人員的一些糾正，可是塑膠材質這麼多，標示又不清楚，大家都覺得有心可是又沒有辦法。我想問，現在是不是真的有落實這樣子的源頭管理，廠商能夠標示清楚，然後讓民眾能夠接受到你們的訊息，真的讓民眾知道這些怎麼去做分類，能夠做到正確分類？"],["賴司長瑩瑩：跟委員報告，民眾要丟出這些塑膠的製品有幾種方式，如果他是給回收車，因為他家裡的空間不多所以他只能夠分容器類一大類，然後讓清潔隊去分類，但是他也可以到賣場，或者我們現在有些自動回收機，那個部分就可以對塑膠有比較好的分類方式。"],["林委員月琴：可是還是希望環境部可以加強宣導，事實上很多人真的是不太理解這一塊這麼細的分類，他就只是大分類而已。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們有看到一些國外做得好，分類的項目多到很多啦！但是我們國人要往下走下一步，的確分類的方式跟它的定義我們有精進的空間，這個我們會來做。"],["林委員月琴：是，請環境部再好好的想一想，怎麼讓民眾得到這樣的一個訊息。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["林委員月琴：最後，因為這也是在預算的時候我就有提出來，我以桃園省道為例來提醒機車的噪音問題非常嚴重，影響到民眾的安寧。這一年來環境部推動排氣管的認證制度，也協助地方加強聲音的照相執法，這部分非常值得肯認，可是後續還是有幾個問題要改善。第一個，很多人預約排檢，就是我要預約檢驗卻排不到，車照樣在路上跑，地方環保局只能先不罰，結果守法的民眾反而吃虧。第二，聲音照相的設置地點好像目前都集中在飆車族出沒的區域，可是民眾真正投訴的熱點反而沒有裝設，所以現在罰單上還是沒有附分貝數數據，這樣的爭議會影響到整體制度的公信力。所以我建議兩項，就是擴充我們檢驗的量能，也應該設計回檢的機制，讓民眾知道不是通過一次認證就可以永久改裝使用。第二，公開我們設點的邏輯，也就是加強布建，設備要裝在真正民怨的地方，而不是在飆車族的地方。請問部長，這些建議是不是可以落實？"],["彭部長啓明：好，可以。因為一個站也是要一百多萬，所以我們也要爭取預算協助地方能夠多設置，因為過去都是在飆車族的熱點，關於委員說的擾民的點，因為最近我們也收到一些民眾說那個點不是他生活的點，所以……"],["林委員月琴：是，桃園我們認養的區域他們還是在跟我反映，去年已經希望你們要去改善這部分，可是事實上似乎是還是沒有達到，沒有解決他們的問題，他們晚上睡覺的時候還是遭受到很大的痛苦，所以要請你們來處理。"],["彭部長啓明：對，這個預算我們會努力去爭取啦！"],["林委員月琴：好。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["林委員月琴：最後，還是期待限塑的這些場域不要再停留在試辦的階段，還有非管制塑膠袋的不能越用越多，因為我們內銷量是在成長，所以是不是請一個月內提出你們現在的具體方案？"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["林委員月琴：至於噪音這一塊的話，希望守法的人能夠不要吃虧，以上，謝謝部長，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員建議，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員，謝謝部長。部長，我要提醒你，你剛剛講那些話很恐怖喔！你說你有買菜的習慣，也有自備環保袋的習慣，你到市場看有這個習慣的100個人才1、2個啦！你確定喔？你是一年買一次菜，還是一個月？"],["彭部長啓明：一個月1、2次。"],["主席：那可能多看幾次，應該臺灣人使用環保袋不會100個只有1、2個在使用啦！"],["彭部長啓明：就是不用塑膠袋的啦！"],["主席：對啦，但是你說那個比例才1、2個會使用環保袋？顯然這個政策就已經……"],["彭部長啓明：不用塑膠袋的人很少。"],["主席：不用塑膠袋的人很少？我覺得是很多，可能有些場域真的誠如部長所講的，但是應該一般臺灣人、國人使用環保袋的比例應該是高的，不會是低的，就我的理解啦！抱歉！因為我雖然沒去買菜，但我也會去買東西，我也會自備環保袋啦，抱歉，好啦！因為部長說100個才1、2個在用，那這個政策就夭折了。","對不起，請陳委員，抱歉。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":264,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-13","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","張啓楷","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳瑩","葉元之","楊曜","廖偉翔","涂權吉"],"page_start":183,"meetingDate":["2025-05-26"],"gazette_id":"1145302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145302_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算決議有關環境部主管預算凍結報告案142案(含報告事項134案及討論\n事項8案)","agenda_id":"1145302_00003"}}}