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\"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 494.951, \"end\": 495.112, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 495.112, \"end\": 495.192, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 495.192, \"end\": 495.212, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,784 --> 00:00:07,388\n主席好我們請彭部長來請彭部長\n\n2\n00:00:11,895 --> 00:00:40,532\n邱委員好部長我想請教一下我們行政院的總預算編給地方的一般性補助款那總額當然是2501億那這個項目在立法院當然是沒有完全沒有刪除但是現在我們行政院違法砍了地方的一般性補助款高達27%我就想請問一下部長那這個部分對我們地方上對環境部推動的政策會不會影響\n\n3\n00:00:42,417 --> 00:01:00,436\n本部是目前沒有太大的影響但是明年財劃法修正之後其實我們部的預算可能會有一些會減少我也擔心會受到一些影響我們先不講財劃法先講一般性補助款那我認為這個部分你認為對我們地方在執行環境部的業務的時候不會影響嗎\n\n4\n00:01:01,096 --> 00:01:28,796\n今年不影響就今年我們不補助給地方的我們會如期把它完成所以你們是環境部這部分是沒有動就對了對對對但是27%你們沒有去我們沒有你們沒有去刪減嘛對對對因為我們看到這樣子的話我擔心地方的這些環境我們在推動那些政策都會受到影響那如果說這樣子是沒有沒有是最好那當然我相信就是我們的部長\n\n5\n00:01:30,797 --> 00:01:55,509\n在這樣的一個議題之下能夠堅持這個是非常棒的因為就像我們苗栗的焚化爐一樣你當初的是BOT案BOT案然後後來如果這個受到影響的話那勢必會影響到我們焚化爐的運作那可能會影響到其他縣市垃圾的處理那當然部長能夠這樣子我們非常的欣慰謝謝委員\n\n6\n00:01:56,730 --> 00:02:21,862\n那當然我再請教一下剛剛我們清輝委員講的你說呼籲要盡量用這個少用這個廢發電那鯉魚市當然是移動污染源的PM2.5比火力發電還要高那我要說我們交通污染當然是很嚴重但不然你沒辦法承認嘛那目前台灣的能源結構當中火力發電佔比是一直都是超過這個八成\n\n7\n00:02:22,802 --> 00:02:46,305\n那在非核家園的第一天高達92%那因為火力發電的空屋排放量非常大而且是集中的再加上地形的關係不容易散去那一些研究資料像國建署還有台大公衛支都顯示火力發電廠附近的居民的氣喘肺癌心肺疾病風險明顯提高\n\n8\n00:02:47,250 --> 00:03:02,141\n那用廢發電這個詞在中南部受污染的民眾是他是真實的感受啦那我想政府的能源政策下的悲劇也是人民對空污絕對無力的控訴但部長你一直要用這個移動污染源來幫火力發電漂白\n\n9\n00:03:03,001 --> 00:03:19,111\n是不是能源政策上的佈局加上政治的壓力所以你要這樣出來背書啊包委員沒有啦因為我們其實花了很多時間半年做了一個這個空品白皮書那其實我們也跟很多專家學者討論其實我們發現台灣的例如說造成PM2.5的污染源\n\n10\n00:03:19,751 --> 00:03:39,261\n有很多剛剛講的固定汙染源固定汙染源包含工廠還有發電業那移動汙染源我們的汽機車或是老舊的車子它也會排放很多的廢氣或是說高速公路旁邊等等或是說我們家裡面生活的這個益善源例如說我們家裡面有時候煮菜或是生活上面的習慣也會造成PM2.5其實我們發現為什麼我們\n\n11\n00:03:40,802 --> 00:03:57,265\n空污減量可是我們的癌症的篩的比例還持續的上升這一定有一些落差的存在所以我們是希望說能夠從民眾健康的角度來把空污的問題解決所以就是不是只有一個固定污染源的問題還有其他各種的污染源我們都要一起來檢討\n\n12\n00:03:58,266 --> 00:04:25,111\n那目前現在最大宗看起來就是火力發電嗎其實它有很多啦不見得是只有火力發電還有別的那火力發電算大嗎火力發電它是其中之一但不是最大的例如說我們的移動最大你認為是汽車移動污染源的部分當然那個是加起來多因為有的是一根比較多那我們現在是不是碰到問題一個我們就要解決一個嘛對不對所以部長您支持這個火力發電繼續一直持續還是說繼續擴大\n\n13\n00:04:26,571 --> 00:04:50,723\n還是要縮減基本上把燃煤能夠盡量的減少這是最好的那目前我們有沒有什麼計畫這個是屬於台電他的規劃那目前我們國家的淨零的規劃在2030年的時候我們的這個燃煤大概只剩下我記得是9%左右能夠從現在的大概是在2030年就希望足夠的減少那剩下幾年剩下不在五年還要五年對那五年內你要做什麼\n\n14\n00:04:51,643 --> 00:05:20,329\n五年內裡面第一個是再生能源照經濟部能源署的規劃再生能源在2030年希望可以到30%那這個部分就可以用你認為達得到嗎如果現在離岸風電那個方面如果能夠起來的話就有機會但是我必須說台灣的各種能源都面臨到還蠻大的挑戰五年之內你相信我都不再相信了對不對這個要努力啦因為每個國家都面臨到能源轉型的問題\n\n15\n00:05:21,428 --> 00:05:50,888\n不然你是少數在政府體系當中還是秉持專業立場的部會首長這點我要跟你肯定那當然對外界也對你有比較高的期待所以我希望你不要用就是就是希望說好好的做事情那請你繼續堅守你環境部的專業底線該做的該講的我希望你還是要講因為我發現我們台灣現在的問題我們其實最大的污染源是來自於行政院我希望你環境部不要被污染\n\n16\n00:05:54,849 --> 00:06:18,378\n那另外根據環境部的統計營建工程的噪音成型比例高達兩成那工地施工的噪音會造成民眾生活中很大的一個困擾尤其是連續性的有時候就是尖銳的有時候因為它的頻率不是很正常的那這樣會讓人家很煩嘛那環境部目前還在討論要把這個聲音照相\n\n17\n00:06:19,298 --> 00:06:34,839\n技術用於這個營建工程噪音監測的階段那這個要怎麼做包委員這個我們明天早上明天會有一個研討會就是我們請到像日本日本其實有些工地其實他已經用到比較低噪音也低空汙的方式來進行\n\n18\n00:06:35,700 --> 00:07:04,671\n那台灣其實現在我必須坦承因為我以前也住在很多都更的房偏齁那真的是產生活品質非常非常的差啦那我們希望能夠藉由國際的案例能夠能夠重新再定義出台灣有沒有因為那個我們希望營建的這個營造業者他能夠採聚用這種國外比較好的一個先進的方式低噪音或是低空汙的方式來進行所以我們還在找一些新的方式來進行所以我們明天會有一個研討會就來討論這個意思那這部分有沒有這個具體的一個時程表\n\n19\n00:07:05,331 --> 00:07:22,843\n目前我們是希望能夠第一個是先找到國際有什麼好的案例然後我們會開始獎勵獎勵例如說好的我們給他獎勵給他認證那慢慢的就會產生出這種好的就可以願意做的更多日本當然他現在的還有一些國家的先進經驗對這部分當然有已經有做規範\n\n20\n00:07:25,325 --> 00:07:46,599\n那當然我也贊同這個做法就是說在這個明天公聽會嘛在這個事情還沒有確定之前我們有沒有什麼比較具體的做法來去減少這樣的一個這個噪音的發生如果說真的是公因為我們目前工地如果要整個都更要拆除其實用的重機具其實\n\n21\n00:07:47,840 --> 00:08:10,518\n目前都是還蠻老舊的而且那個沒有辦法解決而且那我們現在只能用在這種只能在上班時間去處理晚上影響到民眾生活作息的就不能夠去處理這個有很明確的嚴格的一個規範那至於說他能不能真的在減量用更好的機具低污染的機具因為有些那個重機具他其實都是燒柴油的其實對附近的空氣污染也是蠻嚴重的\n\n22\n00:08:11,519 --> 00:08:15,212\n好,那部長希望這個事情盡快啦好,我們盡快有一個時間表好,謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5784\t7388\t主席好 我們請彭部長來 請彭部長\n11895\t40532\t邱委員好部長我想請教一下我們行政院的總預算編給地方的一般性補助款那總額當然是2501億那這個項目在立法院當然是沒有完全沒有刪除但是現在我們行政院違法砍了地方的一般性補助款高達27%我就想請問一下部長那這個部分對我們地方上對環境部推動的政策會不會影響\n42417\t60436\t本部是目前沒有太大的影響但是明年財劃法修正之後其實我們部的預算可能會有一些會減少我也擔心會受到一些影響我們先不講財劃法先講一般性補助款那我認為這個部分你認為對我們地方在執行環境部的業務的時候不會影響嗎\n61096\t88796\t今年不影響就今年我們不補助給地方的我們會如期把它完成所以你們是環境部這部分是沒有動就對了對對對但是27%你們沒有去我們沒有你們沒有去刪減嘛對對對因為我們看到這樣子的話我擔心地方的這些環境我們在推動那些政策都會受到影響那如果說這樣子是沒有沒有是最好那當然我相信就是我們的部長\n90797\t115509\t在這樣的一個議題之下能夠堅持這個是非常棒的因為就像我們苗栗的焚化爐一樣你當初的是BOT案BOT案然後後來如果這個受到影響的話那勢必會影響到我們焚化爐的運作那可能會影響到其他縣市垃圾的處理那當然部長能夠這樣子我們非常的欣慰謝謝委員\n116730\t141862\t那當然我再請教一下剛剛我們清輝委員講的你說呼籲要盡量用這個少用這個廢發電那鯉魚市當然是移動污染源的PM2.5比火力發電還要高那我要說我們交通污染當然是很嚴重但不然你沒辦法承認嘛那目前台灣的能源結構當中火力發電佔比是一直都是超過這個八成\n142802\t166305\t那在非核家園的第一天高達92%那因為火力發電的空屋排放量非常大而且是集中的再加上地形的關係不容易散去那一些研究資料像國建署還有台大公衛支都顯示火力發電廠附近的居民的氣喘肺癌心肺疾病風險明顯提高\n167250\t182141\t那用廢發電這個詞在中南部受污染的民眾是他是真實的感受啦那我想政府的能源政策下的悲劇也是人民對空污絕對無力的控訴但部長你一直要用這個移動污染源來幫火力發電漂白\n183001\t199111\t是不是能源政策上的佈局加上政治的壓力所以你要這樣出來背書啊包委員沒有啦因為我們其實花了很多時間半年做了一個這個空品白皮書那其實我們也跟很多專家學者討論其實我們發現台灣的例如說造成PM2.5的污染源\n199751\t219261\t有很多剛剛講的固定汙染源固定汙染源包含工廠還有發電業那移動汙染源我們的汽機車或是老舊的車子它也會排放很多的廢氣或是說高速公路旁邊等等或是說我們家裡面生活的這個益善源例如說我們家裡面有時候煮菜或是生活上面的習慣也會造成PM2.5其實我們發現為什麼我們\n220802\t237265\t空污減量可是我們的癌症的篩的比例還持續的上升這一定有一些落差的存在所以我們是希望說能夠從民眾健康的角度來把空污的問題解決所以就是不是只有一個固定污染源的問題還有其他各種的污染源我們都要一起來檢討\n238266\t265111\t那目前現在最大宗看起來就是火力發電嗎其實它有很多啦不見得是只有火力發電還有別的那火力發電算大嗎火力發電它是其中之一但不是最大的例如說我們的移動最大你認為是汽車移動污染源的部分當然那個是加起來多因為有的是一根比較多那我們現在是不是碰到問題一個我們就要解決一個嘛對不對所以部長您支持這個火力發電繼續一直持續還是說繼續擴大\n266571\t290723\t還是要縮減基本上把燃煤能夠盡量的減少這是最好的那目前我們有沒有什麼計畫這個是屬於台電他的規劃那目前我們國家的淨零的規劃在2030年的時候我們的這個燃煤大概只剩下我記得是9%左右能夠從現在的大概是在2030年就希望足夠的減少那剩下幾年 剩下不在五年還要五年 對那五年內你要做什麼\n291643\t320329\t五年內裡面第一個是再生能源照經濟部能源署的規劃再生能源在2030年希望可以到30%那這個部分就可以用你認為達得到嗎如果現在離岸風電那個方面如果能夠起來的話就有機會但是我必須說台灣的各種能源都面臨到還蠻大的挑戰五年之內你相信我都不再相信了對不對這個要努力啦因為每個國家都面臨到能源轉型的問題\n321428\t350888\t不然你是少數在政府體系當中還是秉持專業立場的部會首長這點我要跟你肯定那當然對外界也對你有比較高的期待所以我希望你不要用就是就是希望說好好的做事情那請你繼續堅守你環境部的專業底線該做的該講的我希望你還是要講因為我發現我們台灣現在的問題我們其實最大的污染源是來自於行政院我希望你環境部不要被污染\n354849\t378378\t那另外根據環境部的統計營建工程的噪音成型比例高達兩成那工地施工的噪音會造成民眾生活中很大的一個困擾尤其是連續性的有時候就是尖銳的有時候因為它的頻率不是很正常的那這樣會讓人家很煩嘛那環境部目前還在討論要把這個聲音照相\n379298\t394839\t技術用於這個營建工程噪音監測的階段那這個要怎麼做包委員這個我們明天早上明天會有一個研討會就是我們請到像日本日本其實有些工地其實他已經用到比較低噪音也低空汙的方式來進行\n395700\t424671\t那台灣其實現在我必須坦承因為我以前也住在很多都更的房偏齁那真的是產生活品質非常非常的差啦那我們希望能夠藉由國際的案例能夠能夠重新再定義出台灣有沒有因為那個我們希望營建的這個營造業者他能夠採聚用這種國外比較好的一個先進的方式低噪音或是低空汙的方式來進行所以我們還在找一些新的方式來進行所以我們明天會有一個研討會就來討論這個意思那這部分有沒有這個具體的一個時程表\n425331\t442843\t目前我們是希望能夠第一個是先找到國際有什麼好的案例然後我們會開始獎勵獎勵例如說好的我們給他獎勵給他認證那慢慢的就會產生出這種好的就可以願意做的更多日本當然他現在的還有一些國家的先進經驗對這部分當然有已經有做規範\n445325\t466599\t那當然我也贊同這個做法就是說在這個明天公聽會嘛在這個事情還沒有確定之前我們有沒有什麼比較具體的做法來去減少這樣的一個這個噪音的發生如果說真的是公因為我們目前工地如果要整個都更要拆除其實用的重機具其實\n467840\t490518\t目前都是還蠻老舊的而且那個沒有辦法解決而且那我們現在只能用在這種只能在上班時間去處理晚上影響到民眾生活作息的就不能夠去處理這個有很明確的嚴格的一個規範那至於說他能不能真的在減量用更好的機具低污染的機具因為有些那個重機具他其實都是燒柴油的其實對附近的空氣污染也是蠻嚴重的\n491519\t495212\t好,那部長希望這個事情盡快啦好,我們盡快有一個時間表好,謝謝部長\n","txt":"主席好 我們請彭部長來 請彭部長\n邱委員好部長我想請教一下我們行政院的總預算編給地方的一般性補助款那總額當然是2501億那這個項目在立法院當然是沒有完全沒有刪除但是現在我們行政院違法砍了地方的一般性補助款高達27%我就想請問一下部長那這個部分對我們地方上對環境部推動的政策會不會影響\n本部是目前沒有太大的影響但是明年財劃法修正之後其實我們部的預算可能會有一些會減少我也擔心會受到一些影響我們先不講財劃法先講一般性補助款那我認為這個部分你認為對我們地方在執行環境部的業務的時候不會影響嗎\n今年不影響就今年我們不補助給地方的我們會如期把它完成所以你們是環境部這部分是沒有動就對了對對對但是27%你們沒有去我們沒有你們沒有去刪減嘛對對對因為我們看到這樣子的話我擔心地方的這些環境我們在推動那些政策都會受到影響那如果說這樣子是沒有沒有是最好那當然我相信就是我們的部長\n在這樣的一個議題之下能夠堅持這個是非常棒的因為就像我們苗栗的焚化爐一樣你當初的是BOT案BOT案然後後來如果這個受到影響的話那勢必會影響到我們焚化爐的運作那可能會影響到其他縣市垃圾的處理那當然部長能夠這樣子我們非常的欣慰謝謝委員\n那當然我再請教一下剛剛我們清輝委員講的你說呼籲要盡量用這個少用這個廢發電那鯉魚市當然是移動污染源的PM2.5比火力發電還要高那我要說我們交通污染當然是很嚴重但不然你沒辦法承認嘛那目前台灣的能源結構當中火力發電佔比是一直都是超過這個八成\n那在非核家園的第一天高達92%那因為火力發電的空屋排放量非常大而且是集中的再加上地形的關係不容易散去那一些研究資料像國建署還有台大公衛支都顯示火力發電廠附近的居民的氣喘肺癌心肺疾病風險明顯提高\n那用廢發電這個詞在中南部受污染的民眾是他是真實的感受啦那我想政府的能源政策下的悲劇也是人民對空污絕對無力的控訴但部長你一直要用這個移動污染源來幫火力發電漂白\n是不是能源政策上的佈局加上政治的壓力所以你要這樣出來背書啊包委員沒有啦因為我們其實花了很多時間半年做了一個這個空品白皮書那其實我們也跟很多專家學者討論其實我們發現台灣的例如說造成PM2.5的污染源\n有很多剛剛講的固定汙染源固定汙染源包含工廠還有發電業那移動汙染源我們的汽機車或是老舊的車子它也會排放很多的廢氣或是說高速公路旁邊等等或是說我們家裡面生活的這個益善源例如說我們家裡面有時候煮菜或是生活上面的習慣也會造成PM2.5其實我們發現為什麼我們\n空污減量可是我們的癌症的篩的比例還持續的上升這一定有一些落差的存在所以我們是希望說能夠從民眾健康的角度來把空污的問題解決所以就是不是只有一個固定污染源的問題還有其他各種的污染源我們都要一起來檢討\n那目前現在最大宗看起來就是火力發電嗎其實它有很多啦不見得是只有火力發電還有別的那火力發電算大嗎火力發電它是其中之一但不是最大的例如說我們的移動最大你認為是汽車移動污染源的部分當然那個是加起來多因為有的是一根比較多那我們現在是不是碰到問題一個我們就要解決一個嘛對不對所以部長您支持這個火力發電繼續一直持續還是說繼續擴大\n還是要縮減基本上把燃煤能夠盡量的減少這是最好的那目前我們有沒有什麼計畫這個是屬於台電他的規劃那目前我們國家的淨零的規劃在2030年的時候我們的這個燃煤大概只剩下我記得是9%左右能夠從現在的大概是在2030年就希望足夠的減少那剩下幾年 剩下不在五年還要五年 對那五年內你要做什麼\n五年內裡面第一個是再生能源照經濟部能源署的規劃再生能源在2030年希望可以到30%那這個部分就可以用你認為達得到嗎如果現在離岸風電那個方面如果能夠起來的話就有機會但是我必須說台灣的各種能源都面臨到還蠻大的挑戰五年之內你相信我都不再相信了對不對這個要努力啦因為每個國家都面臨到能源轉型的問題\n不然你是少數在政府體系當中還是秉持專業立場的部會首長這點我要跟你肯定那當然對外界也對你有比較高的期待所以我希望你不要用就是就是希望說好好的做事情那請你繼續堅守你環境部的專業底線該做的該講的我希望你還是要講因為我發現我們台灣現在的問題我們其實最大的污染源是來自於行政院我希望你環境部不要被污染\n那另外根據環境部的統計營建工程的噪音成型比例高達兩成那工地施工的噪音會造成民眾生活中很大的一個困擾尤其是連續性的有時候就是尖銳的有時候因為它的頻率不是很正常的那這樣會讓人家很煩嘛那環境部目前還在討論要把這個聲音照相\n技術用於這個營建工程噪音監測的階段那這個要怎麼做包委員這個我們明天早上明天會有一個研討會就是我們請到像日本日本其實有些工地其實他已經用到比較低噪音也低空汙的方式來進行\n那台灣其實現在我必須坦承因為我以前也住在很多都更的房偏齁那真的是產生活品質非常非常的差啦那我們希望能夠藉由國際的案例能夠能夠重新再定義出台灣有沒有因為那個我們希望營建的這個營造業者他能夠採聚用這種國外比較好的一個先進的方式低噪音或是低空汙的方式來進行所以我們還在找一些新的方式來進行所以我們明天會有一個研討會就來討論這個意思那這部分有沒有這個具體的一個時程表\n目前我們是希望能夠第一個是先找到國際有什麼好的案例然後我們會開始獎勵獎勵例如說好的我們給他獎勵給他認證那慢慢的就會產生出這種好的就可以願意做的更多日本當然他現在的還有一些國家的先進經驗對這部分當然有已經有做規範\n那當然我也贊同這個做法就是說在這個明天公聽會嘛在這個事情還沒有確定之前我們有沒有什麼比較具體的做法來去減少這樣的一個這個噪音的發生如果說真的是公因為我們目前工地如果要整個都更要拆除其實用的重機具其實\n目前都是還蠻老舊的而且那個沒有辦法解決而且那我們現在只能用在這種只能在上班時間去處理晚上影響到民眾生活作息的就不能夠去處理這個有很明確的嚴格的一個規範那至於說他能不能真的在減量用更好的機具低污染的機具因為有些那個重機具他其實都是燒柴油的其實對附近的空氣污染也是蠻嚴重的\n好,那部長希望這個事情盡快啦好,我們盡快有一個時間表好,謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.784 --> 00:07.388\n主席好我們請彭部長來請彭部長\n\n00:11.895 --> 00:40.532\n邱委員好部長我想請教一下我們行政院的總預算編給地方的一般性補助款那總額當然是2501億那這個項目在立法院當然是沒有完全沒有刪除但是現在我們行政院違法砍了地方的一般性補助款高達27%我就想請問一下部長那這個部分對我們地方上對環境部推動的政策會不會影響\n\n00:42.417 --> 01:00.436\n本部是目前沒有太大的影響但是明年財劃法修正之後其實我們部的預算可能會有一些會減少我也擔心會受到一些影響我們先不講財劃法先講一般性補助款那我認為這個部分你認為對我們地方在執行環境部的業務的時候不會影響嗎\n\n01:01.096 --> 01:28.796\n今年不影響就今年我們不補助給地方的我們會如期把它完成所以你們是環境部這部分是沒有動就對了對對對但是27%你們沒有去我們沒有你們沒有去刪減嘛對對對因為我們看到這樣子的話我擔心地方的這些環境我們在推動那些政策都會受到影響那如果說這樣子是沒有沒有是最好那當然我相信就是我們的部長\n\n01:30.797 --> 01:55.509\n在這樣的一個議題之下能夠堅持這個是非常棒的因為就像我們苗栗的焚化爐一樣你當初的是BOT案BOT案然後後來如果這個受到影響的話那勢必會影響到我們焚化爐的運作那可能會影響到其他縣市垃圾的處理那當然部長能夠這樣子我們非常的欣慰謝謝委員\n\n01:56.730 --> 02:21.862\n那當然我再請教一下剛剛我們清輝委員講的你說呼籲要盡量用這個少用這個廢發電那鯉魚市當然是移動污染源的PM2.5比火力發電還要高那我要說我們交通污染當然是很嚴重但不然你沒辦法承認嘛那目前台灣的能源結構當中火力發電佔比是一直都是超過這個八成\n\n02:22.802 --> 02:46.305\n那在非核家園的第一天高達92%那因為火力發電的空屋排放量非常大而且是集中的再加上地形的關係不容易散去那一些研究資料像國建署還有台大公衛支都顯示火力發電廠附近的居民的氣喘肺癌心肺疾病風險明顯提高\n\n02:47.250 --> 03:02.141\n那用廢發電這個詞在中南部受污染的民眾是他是真實的感受啦那我想政府的能源政策下的悲劇也是人民對空污絕對無力的控訴但部長你一直要用這個移動污染源來幫火力發電漂白\n\n03:03.001 --> 03:19.111\n是不是能源政策上的佈局加上政治的壓力所以你要這樣出來背書啊包委員沒有啦因為我們其實花了很多時間半年做了一個這個空品白皮書那其實我們也跟很多專家學者討論其實我們發現台灣的例如說造成PM2.5的污染源\n\n03:19.751 --> 03:39.261\n有很多剛剛講的固定汙染源固定汙染源包含工廠還有發電業那移動汙染源我們的汽機車或是老舊的車子它也會排放很多的廢氣或是說高速公路旁邊等等或是說我們家裡面生活的這個益善源例如說我們家裡面有時候煮菜或是生活上面的習慣也會造成PM2.5其實我們發現為什麼我們\n\n03:40.802 --> 03:57.265\n空污減量可是我們的癌症的篩的比例還持續的上升這一定有一些落差的存在所以我們是希望說能夠從民眾健康的角度來把空污的問題解決所以就是不是只有一個固定污染源的問題還有其他各種的污染源我們都要一起來檢討\n\n03:58.266 --> 04:25.111\n那目前現在最大宗看起來就是火力發電嗎其實它有很多啦不見得是只有火力發電還有別的那火力發電算大嗎火力發電它是其中之一但不是最大的例如說我們的移動最大你認為是汽車移動污染源的部分當然那個是加起來多因為有的是一根比較多那我們現在是不是碰到問題一個我們就要解決一個嘛對不對所以部長您支持這個火力發電繼續一直持續還是說繼續擴大\n\n04:26.571 --> 04:50.723\n還是要縮減基本上把燃煤能夠盡量的減少這是最好的那目前我們有沒有什麼計畫這個是屬於台電他的規劃那目前我們國家的淨零的規劃在2030年的時候我們的這個燃煤大概只剩下我記得是9%左右能夠從現在的大概是在2030年就希望足夠的減少那剩下幾年剩下不在五年還要五年對那五年內你要做什麼\n\n04:51.643 --> 05:20.329\n五年內裡面第一個是再生能源照經濟部能源署的規劃再生能源在2030年希望可以到30%那這個部分就可以用你認為達得到嗎如果現在離岸風電那個方面如果能夠起來的話就有機會但是我必須說台灣的各種能源都面臨到還蠻大的挑戰五年之內你相信我都不再相信了對不對這個要努力啦因為每個國家都面臨到能源轉型的問題\n\n05:21.428 --> 05:50.888\n不然你是少數在政府體系當中還是秉持專業立場的部會首長這點我要跟你肯定那當然對外界也對你有比較高的期待所以我希望你不要用就是就是希望說好好的做事情那請你繼續堅守你環境部的專業底線該做的該講的我希望你還是要講因為我發現我們台灣現在的問題我們其實最大的污染源是來自於行政院我希望你環境部不要被污染\n\n05:54.849 --> 06:18.378\n那另外根據環境部的統計營建工程的噪音成型比例高達兩成那工地施工的噪音會造成民眾生活中很大的一個困擾尤其是連續性的有時候就是尖銳的有時候因為它的頻率不是很正常的那這樣會讓人家很煩嘛那環境部目前還在討論要把這個聲音照相\n\n06:19.298 --> 06:34.839\n技術用於這個營建工程噪音監測的階段那這個要怎麼做包委員這個我們明天早上明天會有一個研討會就是我們請到像日本日本其實有些工地其實他已經用到比較低噪音也低空汙的方式來進行\n\n06:35.700 --> 07:04.671\n那台灣其實現在我必須坦承因為我以前也住在很多都更的房偏齁那真的是產生活品質非常非常的差啦那我們希望能夠藉由國際的案例能夠能夠重新再定義出台灣有沒有因為那個我們希望營建的這個營造業者他能夠採聚用這種國外比較好的一個先進的方式低噪音或是低空汙的方式來進行所以我們還在找一些新的方式來進行所以我們明天會有一個研討會就來討論這個意思那這部分有沒有這個具體的一個時程表\n\n07:05.331 --> 07:22.843\n目前我們是希望能夠第一個是先找到國際有什麼好的案例然後我們會開始獎勵獎勵例如說好的我們給他獎勵給他認證那慢慢的就會產生出這種好的就可以願意做的更多日本當然他現在的還有一些國家的先進經驗對這部分當然有已經有做規範\n\n07:25.325 --> 07:46.599\n那當然我也贊同這個做法就是說在這個明天公聽會嘛在這個事情還沒有確定之前我們有沒有什麼比較具體的做法來去減少這樣的一個這個噪音的發生如果說真的是公因為我們目前工地如果要整個都更要拆除其實用的重機具其實\n\n07:47.840 --> 08:10.518\n目前都是還蠻老舊的而且那個沒有辦法解決而且那我們現在只能用在這種只能在上班時間去處理晚上影響到民眾生活作息的就不能夠去處理這個有很明確的嚴格的一個規範那至於說他能不能真的在減量用更好的機具低污染的機具因為有些那個重機具他其實都是燒柴油的其實對附近的空氣污染也是蠻嚴重的\n\n08:11.519 --> 08:15.212\n好,那部長希望這個事情盡快啦好,我們盡快有一個時間表好,謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.784,"end":7.388,"text":"主席好 我們請彭部長來 請彭部長"},{"start":11.895,"end":40.532,"text":"邱委員好部長我想請教一下我們行政院的總預算編給地方的一般性補助款那總額當然是2501億那這個項目在立法院當然是沒有完全沒有刪除但是現在我們行政院違法砍了地方的一般性補助款高達27%我就想請問一下部長那這個部分對我們地方上對環境部推動的政策會不會影響"},{"start":42.417,"end":60.436,"text":"本部是目前沒有太大的影響但是明年財劃法修正之後其實我們部的預算可能會有一些會減少我也擔心會受到一些影響我們先不講財劃法先講一般性補助款那我認為這個部分你認為對我們地方在執行環境部的業務的時候不會影響嗎"},{"start":61.096,"end":88.796,"text":"今年不影響就今年我們不補助給地方的我們會如期把它完成所以你們是環境部這部分是沒有動就對了對對對但是27%你們沒有去我們沒有你們沒有去刪減嘛對對對因為我們看到這樣子的話我擔心地方的這些環境我們在推動那些政策都會受到影響那如果說這樣子是沒有沒有是最好那當然我相信就是我們的部長"},{"start":90.797,"end":115.509,"text":"在這樣的一個議題之下能夠堅持這個是非常棒的因為就像我們苗栗的焚化爐一樣你當初的是BOT案BOT案然後後來如果這個受到影響的話那勢必會影響到我們焚化爐的運作那可能會影響到其他縣市垃圾的處理那當然部長能夠這樣子我們非常的欣慰謝謝委員"},{"start":116.73,"end":141.862,"text":"那當然我再請教一下剛剛我們清輝委員講的你說呼籲要盡量用這個少用這個廢發電那鯉魚市當然是移動污染源的PM2.5比火力發電還要高那我要說我們交通污染當然是很嚴重但不然你沒辦法承認嘛那目前台灣的能源結構當中火力發電佔比是一直都是超過這個八成"},{"start":142.802,"end":166.305,"text":"那在非核家園的第一天高達92%那因為火力發電的空屋排放量非常大而且是集中的再加上地形的關係不容易散去那一些研究資料像國建署還有台大公衛支都顯示火力發電廠附近的居民的氣喘肺癌心肺疾病風險明顯提高"},{"start":167.25,"end":182.141,"text":"那用廢發電這個詞在中南部受污染的民眾是他是真實的感受啦那我想政府的能源政策下的悲劇也是人民對空污絕對無力的控訴但部長你一直要用這個移動污染源來幫火力發電漂白"},{"start":183.001,"end":199.111,"text":"是不是能源政策上的佈局加上政治的壓力所以你要這樣出來背書啊包委員沒有啦因為我們其實花了很多時間半年做了一個這個空品白皮書那其實我們也跟很多專家學者討論其實我們發現台灣的例如說造成PM2.5的污染源"},{"start":199.751,"end":219.261,"text":"有很多剛剛講的固定汙染源固定汙染源包含工廠還有發電業那移動汙染源我們的汽機車或是老舊的車子它也會排放很多的廢氣或是說高速公路旁邊等等或是說我們家裡面生活的這個益善源例如說我們家裡面有時候煮菜或是生活上面的習慣也會造成PM2.5其實我們發現為什麼我們"},{"start":220.802,"end":237.265,"text":"空污減量可是我們的癌症的篩的比例還持續的上升這一定有一些落差的存在所以我們是希望說能夠從民眾健康的角度來把空污的問題解決所以就是不是只有一個固定污染源的問題還有其他各種的污染源我們都要一起來檢討"},{"start":238.266,"end":265.111,"text":"那目前現在最大宗看起來就是火力發電嗎其實它有很多啦不見得是只有火力發電還有別的那火力發電算大嗎火力發電它是其中之一但不是最大的例如說我們的移動最大你認為是汽車移動污染源的部分當然那個是加起來多因為有的是一根比較多那我們現在是不是碰到問題一個我們就要解決一個嘛對不對所以部長您支持這個火力發電繼續一直持續還是說繼續擴大"},{"start":266.571,"end":290.723,"text":"還是要縮減基本上把燃煤能夠盡量的減少這是最好的那目前我們有沒有什麼計畫這個是屬於台電他的規劃那目前我們國家的淨零的規劃在2030年的時候我們的這個燃煤大概只剩下我記得是9%左右能夠從現在的大概是在2030年就希望足夠的減少那剩下幾年 剩下不在五年還要五年 對那五年內你要做什麼"},{"start":291.643,"end":320.329,"text":"五年內裡面第一個是再生能源照經濟部能源署的規劃再生能源在2030年希望可以到30%那這個部分就可以用你認為達得到嗎如果現在離岸風電那個方面如果能夠起來的話就有機會但是我必須說台灣的各種能源都面臨到還蠻大的挑戰五年之內你相信我都不再相信了對不對這個要努力啦因為每個國家都面臨到能源轉型的問題"},{"start":321.428,"end":350.888,"text":"不然你是少數在政府體系當中還是秉持專業立場的部會首長這點我要跟你肯定那當然對外界也對你有比較高的期待所以我希望你不要用就是就是希望說好好的做事情那請你繼續堅守你環境部的專業底線該做的該講的我希望你還是要講因為我發現我們台灣現在的問題我們其實最大的污染源是來自於行政院我希望你環境部不要被污染"},{"start":354.849,"end":378.378,"text":"那另外根據環境部的統計營建工程的噪音成型比例高達兩成那工地施工的噪音會造成民眾生活中很大的一個困擾尤其是連續性的有時候就是尖銳的有時候因為它的頻率不是很正常的那這樣會讓人家很煩嘛那環境部目前還在討論要把這個聲音照相"},{"start":379.298,"end":394.839,"text":"技術用於這個營建工程噪音監測的階段那這個要怎麼做包委員這個我們明天早上明天會有一個研討會就是我們請到像日本日本其實有些工地其實他已經用到比較低噪音也低空汙的方式來進行"},{"start":395.7,"end":424.671,"text":"那台灣其實現在我必須坦承因為我以前也住在很多都更的房偏齁那真的是產生活品質非常非常的差啦那我們希望能夠藉由國際的案例能夠能夠重新再定義出台灣有沒有因為那個我們希望營建的這個營造業者他能夠採聚用這種國外比較好的一個先進的方式低噪音或是低空汙的方式來進行所以我們還在找一些新的方式來進行所以我們明天會有一個研討會就來討論這個意思那這部分有沒有這個具體的一個時程表"},{"start":425.331,"end":442.843,"text":"目前我們是希望能夠第一個是先找到國際有什麼好的案例然後我們會開始獎勵獎勵例如說好的我們給他獎勵給他認證那慢慢的就會產生出這種好的就可以願意做的更多日本當然他現在的還有一些國家的先進經驗對這部分當然有已經有做規範"},{"start":445.325,"end":466.599,"text":"那當然我也贊同這個做法就是說在這個明天公聽會嘛在這個事情還沒有確定之前我們有沒有什麼比較具體的做法來去減少這樣的一個這個噪音的發生如果說真的是公因為我們目前工地如果要整個都更要拆除其實用的重機具其實"},{"start":467.84,"end":490.518,"text":"目前都是還蠻老舊的而且那個沒有辦法解決而且那我們現在只能用在這種只能在上班時間去處理晚上影響到民眾生活作息的就不能夠去處理這個有很明確的嚴格的一個規範那至於說他能不能真的在減量用更好的機具低污染的機具因為有些那個重機具他其實都是燒柴油的其實對附近的空氣污染也是蠻嚴重的"},{"start":491.519,"end":495.212,"text":"好,那部長希望這個事情盡快啦好,我們盡快有一個時間表好,謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":509,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（9時59分）主席好，請彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，我想請教一下，行政院的總預算編給地方的一般性補助款總額大概是2,501億，這個項目在立法院當然是完全沒有刪除，但是現在行政院違法砍了地方的一般性補助款高達27%，我就想請問一下部長，這個部分對我們地方在推動環境部的政策上會不會有影響？"],["彭部長啓明：本部目前是沒有太大的影響啦，但是明年財劃法修正之後，其實我們部的預算可能有一些會減少，我也擔心會受到一些影響。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們先不講財劃法，先講一般性補助款，關於這個部分，你認為對我們地方在執行環境部的業務的時候不會受到影響嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：今年不影響，就是今年我們部補助給地方的，我們會如期把它完成，如果這個預算可以解凍的話。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以你們環境部這部分是沒有凍就對了？"],["彭部長啓明：對、對、對，但是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：一般性補助款那27%你們沒有去刪減嘛。"],["彭部長啓明：我們沒有、我們沒有，對、對、對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為我們看到這樣子的話，我擔心地方在推動環境部的一些政策都會受到影響，如果沒有的話是最好。當然我相信我們部長在這樣的一個議題之下能夠堅持，這是非常棒的，因為就像我們苗栗的焚化爐一樣，當初是BOT案，如果這個部分有受到影響的話，勢必會影響到我們焚化爐的運作，可能會影響到其他縣市垃圾的處理，當然部長能夠這樣子做，我們非常的欣慰。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我再請教一下，關於剛剛我們菁徽委員講的，你呼籲要儘量少用「用肺發電」，理由當然是移動污染源的PM2.5比火力發電還要高，我要說的是，我們交通污染當然很嚴重，但部長你沒辦法不承認嘛，目前臺灣的能源結構當中，火力發電占比一直都是超過八成，在非核家園的第一天高達九成二、92%，因為火力發電的空污排放量非常大，而且是集中的，再加上地形的關係，不容易散去，像國健署還有臺大公衛等單位的研究資料顯示，火力發電廠附近居民的氣喘、肺癌、心肺疾病風險明顯提高，「用肺發電」這個詞對中南部受污染的民眾來說，是他們真實的感受。我想政府的能源政策下的悲劇，也是人民對空污覺得無力的控訴，但部長你一直要用移動污染源來幫火力發電漂白，是不是能源政策上的布局，加上政治的壓力，所以你要這樣出來背書？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，沒有啦！因為我們其實花了很多時間、半年做了一個空品白皮書，我們也跟很多專家學者討論，其實我們發現臺灣……例如說造成PM2.5的污染源有很多，剛才講的固定污染源，固定污染源也包含工廠還有發電業，而移動污染源則包含我們的汽機車或是老舊的車子，它也會排放很多廢氣，或是說高速公路旁邊等等，或是說我們家裡面生活的逸散源，例如我們家裡面有時候煮菜或是生活上面的習慣，也會造成PM2.5。我們發現為什麼我們空污減量，可是我們癌症篩出的比例還持續的上升，這一定有一些落差存在，所以我們希望能夠從民眾健康的角度來把空污的問題解決，所以就是不是只有一個固定污染源的問題，還有其他各種的污染源，我們都要一起來檢討。"],["邱委員鎮軍：目前看起來最大宗就是火力發電？"],["彭部長啓明：其實有很多，不見得只有火力發電，還有別的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那火力發電算大嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：火力發電是其中之一，但不是最大的，例如我們的移動污染源……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你認為是汽車、移動污染源的部分？"],["彭部長啓明：當然那個是加起來多，有的是一根比較多……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們現在是不是碰到一個問題就要解決一個？"],["彭部長啓明：當然、當然。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以部長您支持火力發電一直持續、繼續擴大還是要縮減？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上，把燃煤能夠儘量的減少，這是最好的，因為這個……"],["邱委員鎮軍：目前我們有沒有什麼計畫？"],["彭部長啓明：這個是屬於台電的規劃，目前我們國家淨零的規劃，在2030年的時候，我們的燃煤大概只剩下，我記得是9%左右，能夠從現在的大概……"],["邱委員鎮軍：2030年？"],["彭部長啓明：就希望逐步減少……"],["邱委員鎮軍：現在剩下不到5年。"],["彭部長啓明：還有5年。"],["邱委員鎮軍：5年內你要做什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：在5年內裡面，第一個是再生能源，照經濟部能源署的規劃，再生能源在2030年希望可以到30%，這個部分就可以用……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你認為達得到嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：如果現在離岸風電各方面能夠起來的話就有機會，但是我必須說，臺灣的各種能源都面臨到還滿大的挑戰。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，5年之內，你相信，我都不太相信，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：這個要努力、要努力啦，因為每個國家都面臨到能源轉型的問題。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，你是少數在政府體系當中還是秉持專業立場的部會首長，這一點我要肯定你。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：當然外界也對你有比較高的期待，所以我希望你能夠好好的做事情，請你繼續堅守環境部的專業底線，該做的、該講的，我希望你還是要講，因為我發現我們臺灣現在的問題，我們其實最大的污染源是來自於行政院，我希望環境部不要被污染，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：不會、不會，謝謝、謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，根據環境部的統計，營建工程的噪音陳情比例高達二成，工地施工的噪音會造成民眾生活中很大的困擾，尤其是連續性的，有時候是尖銳的，有時候它的頻率不是很正常的，這樣會讓人家很煩，環境部目前還在討論要把聲音照相技術用於營建工程噪音監測的階段，這個要怎麼做？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，明天我們會有一個研討會，我們有請到日本等等，日本其實有些工地已經採用比較低噪音、低空污的方式來進行，而臺灣現在，其實我必須坦承，因為我以前也住在很多都更的旁邊，那真的是生活品質非常非常差，我們希望藉由國際的案例能夠重新再定義出臺灣有沒有……因為我們希望營建的營造業者能夠採用國外比較好的、先進的方式，低噪音或是低空污的方式來進行，所以我們還在找一些新的方式來進行，我們明天會有個研討會就來討論這個議題。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這部分有沒有具體的時程表？"],["彭部長啓明：目前我們是希望，第一個是先找到國際有什麼好的案例，然後我們會開始獎勵，例如說好的我們給他獎勵、給他認證，慢慢的就會產生出好的就願意做得更多，我們其實……"],["邱委員鎮軍：日本還有一些國家的先進經驗，對這個部分已經有做規範，當然我也贊同這個作法，明天要開公聽會，在這個事情還沒有確定之前，我們有沒有什麼比較具體的作法來減少這樣的噪音發生？"],["彭部長啓明：因為我們目前的工地，如果整個都更要拆除的話，其實目前用的重機具都是滿老舊的，而且沒有辦法解決，我們現在只能在上班時間去處理，晚上會影響到民眾生活作息的就不能夠去處理，這個有很明確的、嚴格的規範，至於說他能不能真的再減量、用更好的機具、低污染的機具？因為有些重機具都是燒柴油的，其實對附近的空氣污染也是滿嚴重的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，希望這個事情能夠儘快有一個時間表。"],["彭部長啓明：好，我會來努力，謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員、謝謝部長。","委員會在這邊作以下宣告：我們等蘇清泉召委詢答結束之後休息10分鐘。","接下來請王育敏委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":264,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-13","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","張啓楷","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳瑩","葉元之","楊曜","廖偉翔","涂權吉"],"page_start":183,"meetingDate":["2025-05-26"],"gazette_id":"1145302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145302_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算決議有關環境部主管預算凍結報告案142案(含報告事項134案及討論\n事項8案)","agenda_id":"1145302_00003"}}}