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\"end\": 856.824, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 856.824, \"end\": 856.924, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 856.924, \"end\": 857.064, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 857.064, \"end\": 857.504, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 857.504, \"end\": 859.925, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 859.925, \"end\": 860.145, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 860.145, \"end\": 860.886, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"憐\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 860.886, \"end\": 860.966, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 860.966, \"end\": 861.166, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"譬\", \"start\": 861.166, \"end\": 861.266, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 861.266, \"end\": 861.286, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"說\"}]}, {\"start\": 862.789, \"end\": 886.412, \"text\": \"因為憲法法庭大法官會議解釋也常常會有不同意見書啊你像比如說你去註記那個不同意見的一個機制然後和出審的意見跟決議不同的時候然後附上不同意見書給檢察官或者法院去做一個參酌我就覺得這個方式也還不錯這個可能要依審會他們來討論決定對我覺得這個建議我在想什麼第一個想到就是想到這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 862.789, \"end\": 863.13, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 863.13, \"end\": 863.27, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 863.27, \"end\": 863.43, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"庭\", \"start\": 863.43, \"end\": 863.63, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 863.63, \"end\": 863.73, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 863.73, \"end\": 863.83, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 863.83, \"end\": 864.211, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 864.211, \"end\": 864.511, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 864.511, \"end\": 865.052, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 865.052, \"end\": 865.232, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 865.232, \"end\": 865.432, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 865.432, \"end\": 865.512, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 865.512, \"end\": 865.612, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 865.612, \"end\": 865.752, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 865.752, \"end\": 866.173, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 866.173, \"end\": 866.933, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 866.933, \"end\": 867.033, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 867.033, \"end\": 867.174, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 867.174, \"end\": 867.274, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 867.274, \"end\": 867.514, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 867.514, \"end\": 867.654, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 867.654, \"end\": 868.175, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"註\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 876.683, \"end\": 876.983, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 876.983, \"end\": 877.143, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 877.143, \"end\": 877.243, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 877.243, \"end\": 877.524, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 877.524, \"end\": 879.125, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 879.125, \"end\": 879.245, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 879.245, \"end\": 879.365, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 879.365, \"end\": 879.706, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 879.706, \"end\": 880.226, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 880.226, \"end\": 882.148, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 882.148, \"end\": 883.93, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 883.93, \"end\": 884.05, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 884.05, \"end\": 884.57, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 884.57, \"end\": 884.811, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 884.811, \"end\": 884.931, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 884.931, \"end\": 885.091, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 885.091, \"end\": 885.251, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 885.251, \"end\": 885.652, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 885.652, \"end\": 885.732, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 885.732, \"end\": 885.892, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 885.892, \"end\": 886.032, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 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894.114, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 894.114, \"end\": 894.515, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 894.515, \"end\": 894.756, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 894.756, \"end\": 894.776, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,626 --> 00:00:30,620\n謝謝主席,有請我們法務部黃次長來,黃次長一位你好次長,一位就好剛才我走下去吳宗憲委員給我搜一下你知道嗎搜一下就是他講了有一點心虛其實你剛剛都沒有回應吳宗憲委員剛才就是胡說八道你知道嗎我開玩笑跟你講就是說其實國民黨自己本身內部沒有對好吳宗憲委員我趁你,因為我不喜歡\n\n2\n00:00:31,921 --> 00:00:53,583\n這個別人不在場批評別人剛好你在場我給你不要說糾正啦給你提醒啦2024年的12月23號啊你們的賴斯巴委員講現在喔中央給地方的部分啊除了統籌稅款啊還有一般補助款跟計畫補助款這比例佔了蠻多的中央政府根本不需要從變種一算只需要減少補助款就可以啦換言之啦行政院只需要\n\n3\n00:00:54,204 --> 00:01:01,350\n只需在補助款的部分減少三千多億一切就可以迎刃而解這個是你們賴司法委員講的啦抱歉啦你要照喔我說不知道那你就知道啦所以說這個齁你這個我們在在一檔在砍這個總預算的時候啊他總預算砍了然後在整個到最後是在不知道要抬什麼的時候齁通商再去抬一次對不對齁抬到跟你說欸是要抬什麼數十年了你自己去抬啦我不會啦齁\n\n4\n00:01:24,534 --> 00:01:45,523\n一般性補助裡面就是在整個總預算裡面你把總預算給砍了你什麼你其他的東西叫行政院叫中央政府再自己去找錢出來這個是有點強人所難啦這個我做這樣的一個補充啦請回請回來請我們司法院副秘書長來副秘書長請\n\n5\n00:01:54,871 --> 00:02:18,225\n我想整個耕燒法上路這三年從零到有確實踏出了關鍵一步但是我們這三週年我們在討論的也不是說只有好就好了因為耕燒其實它不只是一個個人的問題更是一個公共安全的延伸制度的一個空隙裡面我們很擔心的就是下一個悲劇的溫床\n\n6\n00:02:20,046 --> 00:02:47,597\n那我們看這部條文裡面現在看大家好像是認為只是在定義條文其實真正的目的才不是我們當初是希望說這部法令是變成人民的一個安全守護的一個盾牌那我來做一些回顧現在我們也一起來檢視這樣制度的一個缺口我看今天的報告裡面最主要是檢視這個法制的實施還有成效還有可能有一些不足的一個地方那\n\n7\n00:02:48,482 --> 00:03:17,742\n我看到就是說這三年你看這一個成果下來更少把你設計的這三道防線裡面其實大家去看到當初那麼多人在呼籲三道防線書面告誡保護令接下來是刑事處罰那你從受理案件這8488件到你開立書面的告誡5000多件違反告誡就522件那家暴法保護令的申請\n\n8\n00:03:20,603 --> 00:03:37,248\n1979件跟稍法保護令的申請412件提告5000多件移送4531件那從這些來看的話請看下一頁就是說這些數字裡面你可以看得出來就是\n\n9\n00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:49,569\n你這個告誡跟保護令之間它有一個空窗的問題對整個被害人來講的話會形成一個保護的斷點\n\n10\n00:03:52,642 --> 00:04:08,716\n我想問的就是說這個保護空窗期食物的問題跟我們如何去應對那是不是從書面告誡到保護令合法經過一段時間又怕又會亮成一個新案我不曉得\n\n11\n00:04:11,243 --> 00:04:34,008\n我們司法院這個地方啊對於這個書面告誡發布到保護令核發前如何再去做更有效的一個保護的一個作為我覺得副理事長妳的看法是怎樣好謝謝委員我請我們林市廳長回覆這個比較專業的這個部分好那我請警政署警政署來嘛也請到這位起來來先請\n\n12\n00:04:38,146 --> 00:04:54,362\n是主席委員那個代表司法院在這邊做一個說明沒關係你說明那個有關那個書面告誡這個部分其實當初在制度設計的時候這個內政部當時就是因為考慮到像剛才王逸川委員所提到的狀況因為有些狀況不明\n\n13\n00:04:56,064 --> 00:05:14,225\n那不明的時候你立刻就讓他申請保護令這個其實對於某一些模糊地帶的不管是青少年也會有問題書面告誡當時內政部可以理解啦也不是警察不是警方不是檢察官這邊申請法院就一定照他們的申請來\n\n14\n00:05:15,446 --> 00:05:36,259\n來做一個核准這個可以理解可是問題就是說我從剛剛那個比例來看的話似乎我們司法院這個地方跟警政組這個地方你們對那個整個法律間接你們要去做一個統一再跟委員報告說明一下委員做的這一張表這個保護令刑事處罰實際上是違反保護令罪\n\n15\n00:05:37,319 --> 00:05:59,005\n我們在根梢法保護法當初就已經犯罪化了也就是一開始符合構成要件的就有可能構成刑事犯罪那刑事犯罪跟這個書面告誡它是一個行政跟刑事的雙軌進行所以不會因為你發不發書面告誡或中間有空窗就導致說刑事的保護不足這個要先跟委員說明一下\n\n16\n00:06:00,166 --> 00:06:24,686\n對那我要請教的就是說像以現在來看的話你執行到現在我看這個六十七件的一個職權申請裡面很多可以按照職權來做一個申請那可是呢看起來駁回的部分也不小那當社會大眾會去質疑說這樣對被害人的一個保護到底是不是充足\n\n17\n00:06:25,273 --> 00:06:54,203\n甚至於說你們跟警政署這個地方是不是應該有一個做一個我們當初在修法的時候希望有一個定期的一個會商的一個機制這部分你們有做嗎?還是你們認為你們比較權威?警政署我們那個順便告誡我們在認定上是刑事訴訟法裡面的任意處分他沒有什麼強制力\n\n18\n00:06:55,353 --> 00:07:20,959\n所以我們在受理發現這個被害者如果真的有危險的話我們可以申請預防性的質疑啊是啦現在不是這個問題啊你們這樣子變成說你們現在在委員會裡面的詢答跟你們這個發出來在哀哀叫的又不太一樣你們動不動就把人家推給說啊我們就有行情啊啊法官不要亂轉啊你們說的話就會說到這裡去了啊你們現在說的又不一樣了咧\n\n19\n00:07:25,270 --> 00:07:49,540\n是不是這樣說?我的意思是說在這個期間,你這樣按照職權申請的部分,駁回這麼高啦很多也未必會按照你們的意思,法院本來就不一定是你們申請以後法院一定要去做一個核准你們就出了這些,你們比較挫折,你們的講法本來是如此\n\n20\n00:07:53,109 --> 00:08:05,954\n對這個因為保護令的核准還是法院在核准所以他們認定有時候他會去比較嚴格當然我們去保護被害人的立場我們希望是能夠盡快而且能夠比較寬鬆一點的執行\n\n21\n00:08:09,015 --> 00:08:34,189\n當然啦審查的標準這個部分是不是該有更一致的一個看法司法院這個地方確實是可以更精進啦因為不同的法官本來就常常會出現不同的一個看法這部分我希望司法院這個地方也可以對民眾有一個適度的一個回應啦好不好然後司法院請回那我繼續要來請教的警政署的部分就是說\n\n22\n00:08:35,350 --> 00:08:47,341\n在科技偵查我們常常碰到一些障礙你像譬如說有一些電話你說王一川看他就很好啊不然你打電話給他打電話給他打電話給他還是我用那個假帳號叫你王一川一直叫叫叫叫你去找臉書臉書設定那十四種狀況那你真的要去追蹤的話像這種狀況的話譬如說我來騷擾\n\n23\n00:09:01,693 --> 00:09:21,118\n王一川,像這種情形,不要說社會大眾,你偵查上就有很多的一個障礙,那像這一些,你們有什麼因應的策略跟技術的一個資源來提升整個執法的一個效率?聽到王一川他就緊緊地在看,你有沒有看?代表他這種困擾很多啦。現在其實這個,\n\n24\n00:09:23,698 --> 00:09:39,443\n網際網路的部分社群媒體這個部分在我們國內設定的時候像MetaMeta的部分它就是比較大部分現在都可以配合Line也是一樣但是如果說它是公司是設定在境外的\n\n25\n00:09:40,283 --> 00:09:57,880\n像這個WeChat或是像這個WhatsApp這些像新加坡他們在用的這些我們可能在調位上會有比較麻煩必須要充分溝通但是目前他還是盡量會依個案會來同意\n\n26\n00:09:58,820 --> 00:10:16,614\n回來同意這已經進步了已經越來越會配合了您這有回答聽不回答王一川不滿意啦好啦時間的問題啦請回答這個偵查都還必須要精進主席抱歉再給我一點時間因為今天是預算的一個解凍所以我必須要再請司法院副秘書長上來一下來副秘書長\n\n27\n00:10:19,107 --> 00:10:42,460\n副院長我再請問就是說我們從2024年8月15號新制的一個上路這個我們法院跟地檢委託衛護部醫審會的鑑定的機制這個全面暫停這個部分其實很多的一個塞車的狀況非常嚴重那司法院你去因應的措施跟成效來看的話\n\n28\n00:10:44,221 --> 00:11:10,282\n你們現在在去年跟今年尤其是今年三月份你們也召開了多次的一個諮詢的會議你們現在推出了兩項措施就是說鑑定人具名跟拒絕可以彌封不提供閱覽然後鑑定人出庭客才遠距或者隔離筆錄免記載各自我要請教副秘書長就是說這兩項的一個措施是否真的可以提升鑑定的一個參與的意願跟實際的成效\n\n29\n00:11:14,583 --> 00:11:30,144\n跟委員報告就是說有關於這個議題其實大部分篩測是在那個偵查中那所以說那個相關的那個部會現在也有達成的一個共識就是說在偵查中的時候呢就那個因為他還不需要到嚴格的那個\n\n30\n00:11:31,065 --> 00:11:57,695\n證明的這個部分所以說就還不要需要就是要有那個鑑定人具名跟那個具節啊這是現在目前因為大部分七百多件都是在那個偵查中就是現在這樣子那個處理那到法院這一端來的時候那個件數就不會有這麼多了那法院除了採取就是以上這個措施之外呢我們也有就是在廣闢其他的就是除了醫審會之外現在目前有有很多的那個醫療機構\n\n31\n00:11:59,336 --> 00:12:11,803\n還有就是協會跟協會的那個單位那甚至像那個台大法醫研究所也都願意就是加入這個鑑定我等一下跟你問喔是兩項啦一項你們就是說鑑定費用比較多第二項就是說那出庭的部分喔也是一樣是500啦有的人根本就沒有那個意願上次你們是講說事實上你們是表示說會提高專家的一個費用那這個部分我想這個部分我們也已經做了\n\n32\n00:12:28,766 --> 00:12:33,235\n阿所以你們會具體已經具體落實了?已經有已經有現在多少?這個我讓那個廳長來回覆\n\n33\n00:12:36,806 --> 00:13:03,188\n那有關於那個鑑定費用的部分我們把它改成雙階段的兩階段的鑑定費用知己方法就是原先的書面報告的部分那是一個鑑定費用如果有鑑定人要出席的話有出席的鑑定費用那個這部分的說明費用我們3000到10000那或者是有4000塊根據那衛福部的那個精神鑑定的部分的收費標準出席出庭說明鑑定報告費用的部分在一次是4000塊錢\n\n34\n00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:24,834\n那有見見是五百變四千是甚至我們用專家證人的自己標準的話可以三千到一萬根據那個詢問的內容時間反應程度來做一個調整我有一個比較最後一個問題就好了因為其他問題我不好意思沒有時間不敢站人家太久就是我們醫審會的決議跟你初見定的醫師意見不一致這個問題這個比較麻煩的就是說\n\n35\n00:13:31,315 --> 00:13:54,230\n你如果說非醫師背景的委員會做成結論這個很明顯就不太符合我們刑事訴訟法鑑定人專業資格的一個要求那你初見的醫師你不參與最後的決議也不具名也不拒絕然後他的意見其實常常都對於整個決議他有實質的一個影響力這個部分我不曉得副秘書長你怎麼看\n\n36\n00:13:56,434 --> 00:14:21,286\n其實那個醫審會這個部分呢他們那個成員三分之二以上也都是那個醫師那其他是社會公正人士譬如說有一些法學的刑法法學背景的這一些那個的人那所以說他們其實過去以來他們那個運作呢就是說最後在醫審會的時候其實都會經過一個很充分的一個討論對我們剛好可憐說你像譬如說\n\n37\n00:14:22,789 --> 00:14:46,412\n因為憲法法庭大法官會議解釋也常常會有不同意見書啊你像比如說你去註記那個不同意見的一個機制然後和出審的意見跟決議不同的時候然後附上不同意見書給檢察官或者法院去做一個參酌我就覺得這個方式也還不錯這個可能要依審會他們來討論決定對我覺得這個建議我在想什麼第一個想到就是想到這個\n\n38\n00:14:47,557 --> 00:14:54,776\n我覺得可以參考一下是好方法我是覺得好方法不一定會被採取但至少是一個方向之一好不好謝謝謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2626\t30620\t謝謝主席,有請我們法務部黃次長來,黃次長一位你好次長,一位就好剛才我走下去吳宗憲委員給我搜一下你知道嗎搜一下就是他講了有一點心虛其實你剛剛都沒有回應吳宗憲委員剛才就是胡說八道你知道嗎我開玩笑跟你講就是說其實國民黨自己本身內部沒有對好吳宗憲委員我趁你,因為我不喜歡\n31921\t53583\t這個別人不在場批評別人 剛好你在場我給你 不要說糾正啦 給你提醒啦2024年的12月23號啊 你們的賴斯巴委員講現在喔 中央給地方的部分啊 除了統籌稅款啊還有一般補助款跟計畫補助款 這比例佔了蠻多的中央政府根本不需要從變種一算 只需要減少補助款就可以啦換言之啦 行政院只需要\n54204\t61350\t只需在補助款的部分減少三千多億一切就可以迎刃而解這個是你們賴司法委員講的啦 抱歉啦 你要照喔 我說不知道那你就知道啦 所以說這個齁你這個 我們在在一檔在砍這個總預算的時候啊他總預算砍了 然後在整個到最後是在不知道要抬什麼的時候齁通商再去抬一次對不對齁抬到跟你說 欸 是要抬什麼 數十年了 你自己去抬啦 我不會啦齁\n84534\t105523\t一般性補助裡面就是在整個總預算裡面你把總預算給砍了你什麼你其他的東西叫行政院叫中央政府再自己去找錢出來這個是有點強人所難啦這個我做這樣的一個補充啦請回 請回來 請我們司法院副秘書長來 副秘書長請\n114871\t138225\t我想整個耕燒法上路這三年從零到有確實踏出了關鍵一步但是我們這三週年我們在討論的也不是說只有好就好了因為耕燒其實它不只是一個個人的問題更是一個公共安全的延伸制度的一個空隙裡面我們很擔心的就是下一個悲劇的溫床\n140046\t167597\t那我們看這部條文裡面現在看大家好像是認為只是在定義條文其實真正的目的才不是我們當初是希望說這部法令是變成人民的一個安全守護的一個盾牌那我來做一些回顧現在我們也一起來檢視這樣制度的一個缺口我看今天的報告裡面最主要是檢視這個法制的實施還有成效還有可能有一些不足的一個地方那\n168482\t197742\t我看到就是說這三年 你看這一個成果下來更少把你設計的這三道防線裡面其實大家去看到當初那麼多人在呼籲三道防線書面告誡 保護令接下來是刑事處罰那你從受理案件這8488件到你開立書面的告誡5000多件違反告誡就522件那家暴法保護令的申請\n200603\t217248\t1979件跟稍法保護令的申請412件提告5000多件移送4531件那從這些來看的話請看下一頁就是說這些數字裡面你可以看得出來就是\n219720\t229569\t你這個告誡跟保護令之間它有一個空窗的問題對整個被害人來講的話會形成一個保護的斷點\n232642\t248716\t我想問的就是說 這個保護空窗期食物的問題跟我們如何去應對那是不是從書面告誡到保護令合法 經過一段時間又怕又會亮成一個新案 我不曉得\n251243\t274008\t我們司法院這個地方啊對於這個書面告誡發布到保護令核發前如何再去做更有效的一個保護的一個作為我覺得副理事長妳的看法是怎樣好 謝謝委員我請我們林市廳長回覆這個比較專業的這個部分好 那我請警政署警政署來嘛 也請到這位起來來先請\n278146\t294362\t是主席委員那個代表司法院在這邊做一個說明沒關係你說明那個有關那個書面告誡這個部分其實當初在制度設計的時候這個內政部當時就是因為考慮到像剛才王逸川委員所提到的狀況因為有些狀況不明\n296064\t314225\t那不明的時候你立刻就讓他申請保護令這個其實對於某一些模糊地帶的不管是青少年也會有問題書面告誡當時內政部可以理解啦也不是警察不是警方不是檢察官這邊申請法院就一定照他們的申請來\n315446\t336259\t來做一個核准這個可以理解可是問題就是說我從剛剛那個比例來看的話似乎我們司法院這個地方跟警政組這個地方你們對那個整個法律間接你們要去做一個統一再跟委員報告說明一下委員做的這一張表這個保護令刑事處罰實際上是違反保護令罪\n337319\t359005\t我們在根梢法保護法當初就已經犯罪化了也就是一開始符合構成要件的就有可能構成刑事犯罪那刑事犯罪跟這個書面告誡它是一個行政跟刑事的雙軌進行所以不會因為你發不發書面告誡或中間有空窗就導致說刑事的保護不足這個要先跟委員說明一下\n360166\t384686\t對 那我要請教的就是說像以現在來看的話你執行到現在 我看這個六十七件的一個職權申請裡面很多可以按照職權來做一個申請那可是呢 看起來駁回的部分也不小那當社會大眾會去質疑說這樣對被害人的一個保護到底是不是充足\n385273\t414203\t甚至於說你們跟警政署這個地方是不是應該有一個做一個我們當初在修法的時候希望有一個定期的一個會商的一個機制這部分你們有做嗎?還是你們認為你們比較權威?警政署我們那個順便告誡我們在認定上是刑事訴訟法裡面的任意處分他沒有什麼強制力\n415353\t440959\t所以我們在受理發現這個被害者如果真的有危險的話我們可以申請預防性的質疑啊是啦 現在不是這個問題啊你們這樣子變成說你們現在在委員會裡面的詢答跟你們這個發出來在哀哀叫的又不太一樣你們動不動就把人家推給說 啊我們就有行情啊啊法官不要亂轉啊 你們說的話就會說到這裡去了啊你們現在說的又不一樣了咧\n445270\t469540\t是不是這樣說?我的意思是說在這個期間,你這樣按照職權申請的部分,駁回這麼高啦很多也未必會按照你們的意思,法院本來就不一定是你們申請以後法院一定要去做一個核准你們就出了這些,你們比較挫折,你們的講法本來是如此\n473109\t485954\t對 這個因為保護令的核准還是法院在核准所以他們認定有時候他會去比較嚴格當然我們去保護被害人的立場我們希望是能夠盡快而且能夠比較寬鬆一點的執行\n489015\t514189\t當然啦 審查的標準這個部分是不是該有更一致的一個看法司法院這個地方確實是可以更精進啦因為不同的法官本來就常常會出現不同的一個看法這部分我希望司法院這個地方也可以對民眾有一個適度的一個回應啦好不好然後司法院請回那我繼續要來請教的警政署的部分就是說\n515350\t527341\t在科技偵查我們常常碰到一些障礙你像譬如說有一些電話 你說王一川 看他就很好啊不然你打電話給他 打電話給他 打電話給他還是我用那個假帳號 叫你王一川 一直叫叫叫叫你去找臉書 臉書設定那十四種狀況那你真的要去追蹤的話像這種狀況的話 譬如說我來騷擾\n541693\t561118\t王一川,像這種情形,不要說社會大眾,你偵查上就有很多的一個障礙,那像這一些,你們有什麼因應的策略跟技術的一個資源來提升整個執法的一個效率?聽到王一川他就緊緊地在看,你有沒有看?代表他這種困擾很多啦。現在其實這個,\n563698\t579443\t網際網路的部分社群媒體這個部分在我們國內設定的時候像MetaMeta的部分它就是比較大部分現在都可以配合Line也是一樣但是如果說它是公司是設定在境外的\n580283\t597880\t像這個WeChat或是像這個WhatsApp這些像新加坡他們在用的這些我們可能在調位上會有比較麻煩必須要充分溝通但是目前他還是盡量會依個案會來同意\n598820\t616614\t回來同意 這已經進步了 已經越來越會配合了您這有回答 聽不回答 王一川不滿意啦好啦 時間的問題啦 請回答 這個偵查都還必須要精進主席 抱歉 再給我一點時間 因為今天是預算的一個解凍所以我必須要再請司法院副秘書長上來一下來 副秘書長\n619107\t642460\t副院長我再請問就是說我們從2024年8月15號新制的一個上路這個我們法院跟地檢委託衛護部醫審會的鑑定的機制這個全面暫停這個部分其實很多的一個塞車的狀況非常嚴重那司法院你去因應的措施跟成效來看的話\n644221\t670282\t你們現在在去年跟今年尤其是今年三月份你們也召開了多次的一個諮詢的會議你們現在推出了兩項措施就是說鑑定人具名跟拒絕可以彌封不提供閱覽然後鑑定人出庭客才遠距或者隔離筆錄免記載各自我要請教副秘書長就是說這兩項的一個措施是否真的可以提升鑑定的一個參與的意願跟實際的成效\n674583\t690144\t跟委員報告就是說有關於這個議題其實大部分篩測是在那個偵查中那所以說那個相關的那個部會現在也有達成的一個共識就是說在偵查中的時候呢就那個因為他還不需要到嚴格的那個\n691065\t717695\t證明的這個部分所以說就還不要需要就是要有那個鑑定人具名跟那個具節啊這是現在目前因為大部分七百多件都是在那個偵查中就是現在這樣子那個處理那到法院這一端來的時候那個件數就不會有這麼多了那法院除了採取就是以上這個措施之外呢我們也有就是在廣闢其他的就是除了醫審會之外現在目前有有很多的那個醫療機構\n719336\t731803\t還有就是協會跟協會的那個單位那甚至像那個台大法醫研究所也都願意就是加入這個鑑定我等一下跟你問喔 是兩項啦一項你們就是說鑑定費用比較多第二項就是說那出庭的部分喔 也是一樣是500啦有的人根本就沒有那個意願上次你們是講說 事實上你們是表示說會提高專家的一個費用那這個部分我想 這個部分我們也已經做了\n748766\t753235\t阿所以你們會具體 已經具體落實了?已經有 已經有 現在多少?這個我讓那個廳長來回覆\n756806\t783188\t那有關於那個鑑定費用的部分我們把它改成雙階段的兩階段的鑑定費用知己方法就是原先的書面報告的部分那是一個鑑定費用如果有鑑定人要出席的話有出席的鑑定費用那個這部分的說明費用我們3000到10000那或者是有4000塊根據那衛福部的那個精神鑑定的部分的收費標準出席出庭說明鑑定報告費用的部分在一次是4000塊錢\n784389\t804834\t那有見見是 五百變四千是 甚至我們用專家證人的自己標準的話可以三千到一萬根據那個詢問的內容時間 反應程度來做一個調整我有一個比較 最後一個問題就好了因為其他問題我不好意思沒有時間不敢站人家太久就是我們醫審會的決議跟你初見定的醫師意見不一致這個問題這個比較麻煩的就是說\n811315\t834230\t你如果說非醫師背景的委員會做成結論這個很明顯就不太符合我們刑事訴訟法鑑定人專業資格的一個要求那你初見的醫師你不參與最後的決議也不具名也不拒絕然後他的意見其實常常都對於整個決議他有實質的一個影響力這個部分我不曉得副秘書長你怎麼看\n836434\t861286\t其實那個醫審會這個部分呢他們那個成員三分之二以上也都是那個醫師那其他是社會公正人士譬如說有一些法學的刑法法學背景的這一些那個的人那所以說他們其實過去以來他們那個運作呢就是說最後在醫審會的時候其實都會經過一個很充分的一個討論對我們剛好可憐說你像譬如說\n862789\t886412\t因為憲法法庭大法官會議解釋也常常會有不同意見書啊你像比如說你去註記那個不同意見的一個機制然後和出審的意見跟決議不同的時候然後附上不同意見書給檢察官或者法院去做一個參酌我就覺得這個方式也還不錯這個可能要依審會他們來討論決定對我覺得這個建議我在想什麼第一個想到就是想到這個\n887557\t894776\t我覺得可以參考一下是好方法我是覺得好方法不一定會被採取但至少是一個方向之一好不好 謝謝謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請我們法務部黃次長來,黃次長一位你好次長,一位就好剛才我走下去吳宗憲委員給我搜一下你知道嗎搜一下就是他講了有一點心虛其實你剛剛都沒有回應吳宗憲委員剛才就是胡說八道你知道嗎我開玩笑跟你講就是說其實國民黨自己本身內部沒有對好吳宗憲委員我趁你,因為我不喜歡\n這個別人不在場批評別人 剛好你在場我給你 不要說糾正啦 給你提醒啦2024年的12月23號啊 你們的賴斯巴委員講現在喔 中央給地方的部分啊 除了統籌稅款啊還有一般補助款跟計畫補助款 這比例佔了蠻多的中央政府根本不需要從變種一算 只需要減少補助款就可以啦換言之啦 行政院只需要\n只需在補助款的部分減少三千多億一切就可以迎刃而解這個是你們賴司法委員講的啦 抱歉啦 你要照喔 我說不知道那你就知道啦 所以說這個齁你這個 我們在在一檔在砍這個總預算的時候啊他總預算砍了 然後在整個到最後是在不知道要抬什麼的時候齁通商再去抬一次對不對齁抬到跟你說 欸 是要抬什麼 數十年了 你自己去抬啦 我不會啦齁\n一般性補助裡面就是在整個總預算裡面你把總預算給砍了你什麼你其他的東西叫行政院叫中央政府再自己去找錢出來這個是有點強人所難啦這個我做這樣的一個補充啦請回 請回來 請我們司法院副秘書長來 副秘書長請\n我想整個耕燒法上路這三年從零到有確實踏出了關鍵一步但是我們這三週年我們在討論的也不是說只有好就好了因為耕燒其實它不只是一個個人的問題更是一個公共安全的延伸制度的一個空隙裡面我們很擔心的就是下一個悲劇的溫床\n那我們看這部條文裡面現在看大家好像是認為只是在定義條文其實真正的目的才不是我們當初是希望說這部法令是變成人民的一個安全守護的一個盾牌那我來做一些回顧現在我們也一起來檢視這樣制度的一個缺口我看今天的報告裡面最主要是檢視這個法制的實施還有成效還有可能有一些不足的一個地方那\n我看到就是說這三年 你看這一個成果下來更少把你設計的這三道防線裡面其實大家去看到當初那麼多人在呼籲三道防線書面告誡 保護令接下來是刑事處罰那你從受理案件這8488件到你開立書面的告誡5000多件違反告誡就522件那家暴法保護令的申請\n1979件跟稍法保護令的申請412件提告5000多件移送4531件那從這些來看的話請看下一頁就是說這些數字裡面你可以看得出來就是\n你這個告誡跟保護令之間它有一個空窗的問題對整個被害人來講的話會形成一個保護的斷點\n我想問的就是說 這個保護空窗期食物的問題跟我們如何去應對那是不是從書面告誡到保護令合法 經過一段時間又怕又會亮成一個新案 我不曉得\n我們司法院這個地方啊對於這個書面告誡發布到保護令核發前如何再去做更有效的一個保護的一個作為我覺得副理事長妳的看法是怎樣好 謝謝委員我請我們林市廳長回覆這個比較專業的這個部分好 那我請警政署警政署來嘛 也請到這位起來來先請\n是主席委員那個代表司法院在這邊做一個說明沒關係你說明那個有關那個書面告誡這個部分其實當初在制度設計的時候這個內政部當時就是因為考慮到像剛才王逸川委員所提到的狀況因為有些狀況不明\n那不明的時候你立刻就讓他申請保護令這個其實對於某一些模糊地帶的不管是青少年也會有問題書面告誡當時內政部可以理解啦也不是警察不是警方不是檢察官這邊申請法院就一定照他們的申請來\n來做一個核准這個可以理解可是問題就是說我從剛剛那個比例來看的話似乎我們司法院這個地方跟警政組這個地方你們對那個整個法律間接你們要去做一個統一再跟委員報告說明一下委員做的這一張表這個保護令刑事處罰實際上是違反保護令罪\n我們在根梢法保護法當初就已經犯罪化了也就是一開始符合構成要件的就有可能構成刑事犯罪那刑事犯罪跟這個書面告誡它是一個行政跟刑事的雙軌進行所以不會因為你發不發書面告誡或中間有空窗就導致說刑事的保護不足這個要先跟委員說明一下\n對 那我要請教的就是說像以現在來看的話你執行到現在 我看這個六十七件的一個職權申請裡面很多可以按照職權來做一個申請那可是呢 看起來駁回的部分也不小那當社會大眾會去質疑說這樣對被害人的一個保護到底是不是充足\n甚至於說你們跟警政署這個地方是不是應該有一個做一個我們當初在修法的時候希望有一個定期的一個會商的一個機制這部分你們有做嗎?還是你們認為你們比較權威?警政署我們那個順便告誡我們在認定上是刑事訴訟法裡面的任意處分他沒有什麼強制力\n所以我們在受理發現這個被害者如果真的有危險的話我們可以申請預防性的質疑啊是啦 現在不是這個問題啊你們這樣子變成說你們現在在委員會裡面的詢答跟你們這個發出來在哀哀叫的又不太一樣你們動不動就把人家推給說 啊我們就有行情啊啊法官不要亂轉啊 你們說的話就會說到這裡去了啊你們現在說的又不一樣了咧\n是不是這樣說?我的意思是說在這個期間,你這樣按照職權申請的部分,駁回這麼高啦很多也未必會按照你們的意思,法院本來就不一定是你們申請以後法院一定要去做一個核准你們就出了這些,你們比較挫折,你們的講法本來是如此\n對 這個因為保護令的核准還是法院在核准所以他們認定有時候他會去比較嚴格當然我們去保護被害人的立場我們希望是能夠盡快而且能夠比較寬鬆一點的執行\n當然啦 審查的標準這個部分是不是該有更一致的一個看法司法院這個地方確實是可以更精進啦因為不同的法官本來就常常會出現不同的一個看法這部分我希望司法院這個地方也可以對民眾有一個適度的一個回應啦好不好然後司法院請回那我繼續要來請教的警政署的部分就是說\n在科技偵查我們常常碰到一些障礙你像譬如說有一些電話 你說王一川 看他就很好啊不然你打電話給他 打電話給他 打電話給他還是我用那個假帳號 叫你王一川 一直叫叫叫叫你去找臉書 臉書設定那十四種狀況那你真的要去追蹤的話像這種狀況的話 譬如說我來騷擾\n王一川,像這種情形,不要說社會大眾,你偵查上就有很多的一個障礙,那像這一些,你們有什麼因應的策略跟技術的一個資源來提升整個執法的一個效率?聽到王一川他就緊緊地在看,你有沒有看?代表他這種困擾很多啦。現在其實這個,\n網際網路的部分社群媒體這個部分在我們國內設定的時候像MetaMeta的部分它就是比較大部分現在都可以配合Line也是一樣但是如果說它是公司是設定在境外的\n像這個WeChat或是像這個WhatsApp這些像新加坡他們在用的這些我們可能在調位上會有比較麻煩必須要充分溝通但是目前他還是盡量會依個案會來同意\n回來同意 這已經進步了 已經越來越會配合了您這有回答 聽不回答 王一川不滿意啦好啦 時間的問題啦 請回答 這個偵查都還必須要精進主席 抱歉 再給我一點時間 因為今天是預算的一個解凍所以我必須要再請司法院副秘書長上來一下來 副秘書長\n副院長我再請問就是說我們從2024年8月15號新制的一個上路這個我們法院跟地檢委託衛護部醫審會的鑑定的機制這個全面暫停這個部分其實很多的一個塞車的狀況非常嚴重那司法院你去因應的措施跟成效來看的話\n你們現在在去年跟今年尤其是今年三月份你們也召開了多次的一個諮詢的會議你們現在推出了兩項措施就是說鑑定人具名跟拒絕可以彌封不提供閱覽然後鑑定人出庭客才遠距或者隔離筆錄免記載各自我要請教副秘書長就是說這兩項的一個措施是否真的可以提升鑑定的一個參與的意願跟實際的成效\n跟委員報告就是說有關於這個議題其實大部分篩測是在那個偵查中那所以說那個相關的那個部會現在也有達成的一個共識就是說在偵查中的時候呢就那個因為他還不需要到嚴格的那個\n證明的這個部分所以說就還不要需要就是要有那個鑑定人具名跟那個具節啊這是現在目前因為大部分七百多件都是在那個偵查中就是現在這樣子那個處理那到法院這一端來的時候那個件數就不會有這麼多了那法院除了採取就是以上這個措施之外呢我們也有就是在廣闢其他的就是除了醫審會之外現在目前有有很多的那個醫療機構\n還有就是協會跟協會的那個單位那甚至像那個台大法醫研究所也都願意就是加入這個鑑定我等一下跟你問喔 是兩項啦一項你們就是說鑑定費用比較多第二項就是說那出庭的部分喔 也是一樣是500啦有的人根本就沒有那個意願上次你們是講說 事實上你們是表示說會提高專家的一個費用那這個部分我想 這個部分我們也已經做了\n阿所以你們會具體 已經具體落實了?已經有 已經有 現在多少?這個我讓那個廳長來回覆\n那有關於那個鑑定費用的部分我們把它改成雙階段的兩階段的鑑定費用知己方法就是原先的書面報告的部分那是一個鑑定費用如果有鑑定人要出席的話有出席的鑑定費用那個這部分的說明費用我們3000到10000那或者是有4000塊根據那衛福部的那個精神鑑定的部分的收費標準出席出庭說明鑑定報告費用的部分在一次是4000塊錢\n那有見見是 五百變四千是 甚至我們用專家證人的自己標準的話可以三千到一萬根據那個詢問的內容時間 反應程度來做一個調整我有一個比較 最後一個問題就好了因為其他問題我不好意思沒有時間不敢站人家太久就是我們醫審會的決議跟你初見定的醫師意見不一致這個問題這個比較麻煩的就是說\n你如果說非醫師背景的委員會做成結論這個很明顯就不太符合我們刑事訴訟法鑑定人專業資格的一個要求那你初見的醫師你不參與最後的決議也不具名也不拒絕然後他的意見其實常常都對於整個決議他有實質的一個影響力這個部分我不曉得副秘書長你怎麼看\n其實那個醫審會這個部分呢他們那個成員三分之二以上也都是那個醫師那其他是社會公正人士譬如說有一些法學的刑法法學背景的這一些那個的人那所以說他們其實過去以來他們那個運作呢就是說最後在醫審會的時候其實都會經過一個很充分的一個討論對我們剛好可憐說你像譬如說\n因為憲法法庭大法官會議解釋也常常會有不同意見書啊你像比如說你去註記那個不同意見的一個機制然後和出審的意見跟決議不同的時候然後附上不同意見書給檢察官或者法院去做一個參酌我就覺得這個方式也還不錯這個可能要依審會他們來討論決定對我覺得這個建議我在想什麼第一個想到就是想到這個\n我覺得可以參考一下是好方法我是覺得好方法不一定會被採取但至少是一個方向之一好不好 謝謝謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.626 --> 00:30.620\n謝謝主席,有請我們法務部黃次長來,黃次長一位你好次長,一位就好剛才我走下去吳宗憲委員給我搜一下你知道嗎搜一下就是他講了有一點心虛其實你剛剛都沒有回應吳宗憲委員剛才就是胡說八道你知道嗎我開玩笑跟你講就是說其實國民黨自己本身內部沒有對好吳宗憲委員我趁你,因為我不喜歡\n\n00:31.921 --> 00:53.583\n這個別人不在場批評別人剛好你在場我給你不要說糾正啦給你提醒啦2024年的12月23號啊你們的賴斯巴委員講現在喔中央給地方的部分啊除了統籌稅款啊還有一般補助款跟計畫補助款這比例佔了蠻多的中央政府根本不需要從變種一算只需要減少補助款就可以啦換言之啦行政院只需要\n\n00:54.204 --> 01:01.350\n只需在補助款的部分減少三千多億一切就可以迎刃而解這個是你們賴司法委員講的啦抱歉啦你要照喔我說不知道那你就知道啦所以說這個齁你這個我們在在一檔在砍這個總預算的時候啊他總預算砍了然後在整個到最後是在不知道要抬什麼的時候齁通商再去抬一次對不對齁抬到跟你說欸是要抬什麼數十年了你自己去抬啦我不會啦齁\n\n01:24.534 --> 01:45.523\n一般性補助裡面就是在整個總預算裡面你把總預算給砍了你什麼你其他的東西叫行政院叫中央政府再自己去找錢出來這個是有點強人所難啦這個我做這樣的一個補充啦請回請回來請我們司法院副秘書長來副秘書長請\n\n01:54.871 --> 02:18.225\n我想整個耕燒法上路這三年從零到有確實踏出了關鍵一步但是我們這三週年我們在討論的也不是說只有好就好了因為耕燒其實它不只是一個個人的問題更是一個公共安全的延伸制度的一個空隙裡面我們很擔心的就是下一個悲劇的溫床\n\n02:20.046 --> 02:47.597\n那我們看這部條文裡面現在看大家好像是認為只是在定義條文其實真正的目的才不是我們當初是希望說這部法令是變成人民的一個安全守護的一個盾牌那我來做一些回顧現在我們也一起來檢視這樣制度的一個缺口我看今天的報告裡面最主要是檢視這個法制的實施還有成效還有可能有一些不足的一個地方那\n\n02:48.482 --> 03:17.742\n我看到就是說這三年你看這一個成果下來更少把你設計的這三道防線裡面其實大家去看到當初那麼多人在呼籲三道防線書面告誡保護令接下來是刑事處罰那你從受理案件這8488件到你開立書面的告誡5000多件違反告誡就522件那家暴法保護令的申請\n\n03:20.603 --> 03:37.248\n1979件跟稍法保護令的申請412件提告5000多件移送4531件那從這些來看的話請看下一頁就是說這些數字裡面你可以看得出來就是\n\n03:39.720 --> 03:49.569\n你這個告誡跟保護令之間它有一個空窗的問題對整個被害人來講的話會形成一個保護的斷點\n\n03:52.642 --> 04:08.716\n我想問的就是說這個保護空窗期食物的問題跟我們如何去應對那是不是從書面告誡到保護令合法經過一段時間又怕又會亮成一個新案我不曉得\n\n04:11.243 --> 04:34.008\n我們司法院這個地方啊對於這個書面告誡發布到保護令核發前如何再去做更有效的一個保護的一個作為我覺得副理事長妳的看法是怎樣好謝謝委員我請我們林市廳長回覆這個比較專業的這個部分好那我請警政署警政署來嘛也請到這位起來來先請\n\n04:38.146 --> 04:54.362\n是主席委員那個代表司法院在這邊做一個說明沒關係你說明那個有關那個書面告誡這個部分其實當初在制度設計的時候這個內政部當時就是因為考慮到像剛才王逸川委員所提到的狀況因為有些狀況不明\n\n04:56.064 --> 05:14.225\n那不明的時候你立刻就讓他申請保護令這個其實對於某一些模糊地帶的不管是青少年也會有問題書面告誡當時內政部可以理解啦也不是警察不是警方不是檢察官這邊申請法院就一定照他們的申請來\n\n05:15.446 --> 05:36.259\n來做一個核准這個可以理解可是問題就是說我從剛剛那個比例來看的話似乎我們司法院這個地方跟警政組這個地方你們對那個整個法律間接你們要去做一個統一再跟委員報告說明一下委員做的這一張表這個保護令刑事處罰實際上是違反保護令罪\n\n05:37.319 --> 05:59.005\n我們在根梢法保護法當初就已經犯罪化了也就是一開始符合構成要件的就有可能構成刑事犯罪那刑事犯罪跟這個書面告誡它是一個行政跟刑事的雙軌進行所以不會因為你發不發書面告誡或中間有空窗就導致說刑事的保護不足這個要先跟委員說明一下\n\n06:00.166 --> 06:24.686\n對那我要請教的就是說像以現在來看的話你執行到現在我看這個六十七件的一個職權申請裡面很多可以按照職權來做一個申請那可是呢看起來駁回的部分也不小那當社會大眾會去質疑說這樣對被害人的一個保護到底是不是充足\n\n06:25.273 --> 06:54.203\n甚至於說你們跟警政署這個地方是不是應該有一個做一個我們當初在修法的時候希望有一個定期的一個會商的一個機制這部分你們有做嗎?還是你們認為你們比較權威?警政署我們那個順便告誡我們在認定上是刑事訴訟法裡面的任意處分他沒有什麼強制力\n\n06:55.353 --> 07:20.959\n所以我們在受理發現這個被害者如果真的有危險的話我們可以申請預防性的質疑啊是啦現在不是這個問題啊你們這樣子變成說你們現在在委員會裡面的詢答跟你們這個發出來在哀哀叫的又不太一樣你們動不動就把人家推給說啊我們就有行情啊啊法官不要亂轉啊你們說的話就會說到這裡去了啊你們現在說的又不一樣了咧\n\n07:25.270 --> 07:49.540\n是不是這樣說?我的意思是說在這個期間,你這樣按照職權申請的部分,駁回這麼高啦很多也未必會按照你們的意思,法院本來就不一定是你們申請以後法院一定要去做一個核准你們就出了這些,你們比較挫折,你們的講法本來是如此\n\n07:53.109 --> 08:05.954\n對這個因為保護令的核准還是法院在核准所以他們認定有時候他會去比較嚴格當然我們去保護被害人的立場我們希望是能夠盡快而且能夠比較寬鬆一點的執行\n\n08:09.015 --> 08:34.189\n當然啦審查的標準這個部分是不是該有更一致的一個看法司法院這個地方確實是可以更精進啦因為不同的法官本來就常常會出現不同的一個看法這部分我希望司法院這個地方也可以對民眾有一個適度的一個回應啦好不好然後司法院請回那我繼續要來請教的警政署的部分就是說\n\n08:35.350 --> 08:47.341\n在科技偵查我們常常碰到一些障礙你像譬如說有一些電話你說王一川看他就很好啊不然你打電話給他打電話給他打電話給他還是我用那個假帳號叫你王一川一直叫叫叫叫你去找臉書臉書設定那十四種狀況那你真的要去追蹤的話像這種狀況的話譬如說我來騷擾\n\n09:01.693 --> 09:21.118\n王一川,像這種情形,不要說社會大眾,你偵查上就有很多的一個障礙,那像這一些,你們有什麼因應的策略跟技術的一個資源來提升整個執法的一個效率?聽到王一川他就緊緊地在看,你有沒有看?代表他這種困擾很多啦。現在其實這個,\n\n09:23.698 --> 09:39.443\n網際網路的部分社群媒體這個部分在我們國內設定的時候像MetaMeta的部分它就是比較大部分現在都可以配合Line也是一樣但是如果說它是公司是設定在境外的\n\n09:40.283 --> 09:57.880\n像這個WeChat或是像這個WhatsApp這些像新加坡他們在用的這些我們可能在調位上會有比較麻煩必須要充分溝通但是目前他還是盡量會依個案會來同意\n\n09:58.820 --> 10:16.614\n回來同意這已經進步了已經越來越會配合了您這有回答聽不回答王一川不滿意啦好啦時間的問題啦請回答這個偵查都還必須要精進主席抱歉再給我一點時間因為今天是預算的一個解凍所以我必須要再請司法院副秘書長上來一下來副秘書長\n\n10:19.107 --> 10:42.460\n副院長我再請問就是說我們從2024年8月15號新制的一個上路這個我們法院跟地檢委託衛護部醫審會的鑑定的機制這個全面暫停這個部分其實很多的一個塞車的狀況非常嚴重那司法院你去因應的措施跟成效來看的話\n\n10:44.221 --> 11:10.282\n你們現在在去年跟今年尤其是今年三月份你們也召開了多次的一個諮詢的會議你們現在推出了兩項措施就是說鑑定人具名跟拒絕可以彌封不提供閱覽然後鑑定人出庭客才遠距或者隔離筆錄免記載各自我要請教副秘書長就是說這兩項的一個措施是否真的可以提升鑑定的一個參與的意願跟實際的成效\n\n11:14.583 --> 11:30.144\n跟委員報告就是說有關於這個議題其實大部分篩測是在那個偵查中那所以說那個相關的那個部會現在也有達成的一個共識就是說在偵查中的時候呢就那個因為他還不需要到嚴格的那個\n\n11:31.065 --> 11:57.695\n證明的這個部分所以說就還不要需要就是要有那個鑑定人具名跟那個具節啊這是現在目前因為大部分七百多件都是在那個偵查中就是現在這樣子那個處理那到法院這一端來的時候那個件數就不會有這麼多了那法院除了採取就是以上這個措施之外呢我們也有就是在廣闢其他的就是除了醫審會之外現在目前有有很多的那個醫療機構\n\n11:59.336 --> 12:11.803\n還有就是協會跟協會的那個單位那甚至像那個台大法醫研究所也都願意就是加入這個鑑定我等一下跟你問喔是兩項啦一項你們就是說鑑定費用比較多第二項就是說那出庭的部分喔也是一樣是500啦有的人根本就沒有那個意願上次你們是講說事實上你們是表示說會提高專家的一個費用那這個部分我想這個部分我們也已經做了\n\n12:28.766 --> 12:33.235\n阿所以你們會具體已經具體落實了?已經有已經有現在多少?這個我讓那個廳長來回覆\n\n12:36.806 --> 13:03.188\n那有關於那個鑑定費用的部分我們把它改成雙階段的兩階段的鑑定費用知己方法就是原先的書面報告的部分那是一個鑑定費用如果有鑑定人要出席的話有出席的鑑定費用那個這部分的說明費用我們3000到10000那或者是有4000塊根據那衛福部的那個精神鑑定的部分的收費標準出席出庭說明鑑定報告費用的部分在一次是4000塊錢\n\n13:04.389 --> 13:24.834\n那有見見是五百變四千是甚至我們用專家證人的自己標準的話可以三千到一萬根據那個詢問的內容時間反應程度來做一個調整我有一個比較最後一個問題就好了因為其他問題我不好意思沒有時間不敢站人家太久就是我們醫審會的決議跟你初見定的醫師意見不一致這個問題這個比較麻煩的就是說\n\n13:31.315 --> 13:54.230\n你如果說非醫師背景的委員會做成結論這個很明顯就不太符合我們刑事訴訟法鑑定人專業資格的一個要求那你初見的醫師你不參與最後的決議也不具名也不拒絕然後他的意見其實常常都對於整個決議他有實質的一個影響力這個部分我不曉得副秘書長你怎麼看\n\n13:56.434 --> 14:21.286\n其實那個醫審會這個部分呢他們那個成員三分之二以上也都是那個醫師那其他是社會公正人士譬如說有一些法學的刑法法學背景的這一些那個的人那所以說他們其實過去以來他們那個運作呢就是說最後在醫審會的時候其實都會經過一個很充分的一個討論對我們剛好可憐說你像譬如說\n\n14:22.789 --> 14:46.412\n因為憲法法庭大法官會議解釋也常常會有不同意見書啊你像比如說你去註記那個不同意見的一個機制然後和出審的意見跟決議不同的時候然後附上不同意見書給檢察官或者法院去做一個參酌我就覺得這個方式也還不錯這個可能要依審會他們來討論決定對我覺得這個建議我在想什麼第一個想到就是想到這個\n\n14:47.557 --> 14:54.776\n我覺得可以參考一下是好方法我是覺得好方法不一定會被採取但至少是一個方向之一好不好謝謝謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.626,"end":30.62,"text":"謝謝主席,有請我們法務部黃次長來,黃次長一位你好次長,一位就好剛才我走下去吳宗憲委員給我搜一下你知道嗎搜一下就是他講了有一點心虛其實你剛剛都沒有回應吳宗憲委員剛才就是胡說八道你知道嗎我開玩笑跟你講就是說其實國民黨自己本身內部沒有對好吳宗憲委員我趁你,因為我不喜歡"},{"start":31.921,"end":53.583,"text":"這個別人不在場批評別人 剛好你在場我給你 不要說糾正啦 給你提醒啦2024年的12月23號啊 你們的賴斯巴委員講現在喔 中央給地方的部分啊 除了統籌稅款啊還有一般補助款跟計畫補助款 這比例佔了蠻多的中央政府根本不需要從變種一算 只需要減少補助款就可以啦換言之啦 行政院只需要"},{"start":54.204,"end":61.35,"text":"只需在補助款的部分減少三千多億一切就可以迎刃而解這個是你們賴司法委員講的啦 抱歉啦 你要照喔 我說不知道那你就知道啦 所以說這個齁你這個 我們在在一檔在砍這個總預算的時候啊他總預算砍了 然後在整個到最後是在不知道要抬什麼的時候齁通商再去抬一次對不對齁抬到跟你說 欸 是要抬什麼 數十年了 你自己去抬啦 我不會啦齁"},{"start":84.534,"end":105.523,"text":"一般性補助裡面就是在整個總預算裡面你把總預算給砍了你什麼你其他的東西叫行政院叫中央政府再自己去找錢出來這個是有點強人所難啦這個我做這樣的一個補充啦請回 請回來 請我們司法院副秘書長來 副秘書長請"},{"start":114.871,"end":138.225,"text":"我想整個耕燒法上路這三年從零到有確實踏出了關鍵一步但是我們這三週年我們在討論的也不是說只有好就好了因為耕燒其實它不只是一個個人的問題更是一個公共安全的延伸制度的一個空隙裡面我們很擔心的就是下一個悲劇的溫床"},{"start":140.046,"end":167.597,"text":"那我們看這部條文裡面現在看大家好像是認為只是在定義條文其實真正的目的才不是我們當初是希望說這部法令是變成人民的一個安全守護的一個盾牌那我來做一些回顧現在我們也一起來檢視這樣制度的一個缺口我看今天的報告裡面最主要是檢視這個法制的實施還有成效還有可能有一些不足的一個地方那"},{"start":168.482,"end":197.742,"text":"我看到就是說這三年 你看這一個成果下來更少把你設計的這三道防線裡面其實大家去看到當初那麼多人在呼籲三道防線書面告誡 保護令接下來是刑事處罰那你從受理案件這8488件到你開立書面的告誡5000多件違反告誡就522件那家暴法保護令的申請"},{"start":200.603,"end":217.248,"text":"1979件跟稍法保護令的申請412件提告5000多件移送4531件那從這些來看的話請看下一頁就是說這些數字裡面你可以看得出來就是"},{"start":219.72,"end":229.569,"text":"你這個告誡跟保護令之間它有一個空窗的問題對整個被害人來講的話會形成一個保護的斷點"},{"start":232.642,"end":248.716,"text":"我想問的就是說 這個保護空窗期食物的問題跟我們如何去應對那是不是從書面告誡到保護令合法 經過一段時間又怕又會亮成一個新案 我不曉得"},{"start":251.243,"end":274.008,"text":"我們司法院這個地方啊對於這個書面告誡發布到保護令核發前如何再去做更有效的一個保護的一個作為我覺得副理事長妳的看法是怎樣好 謝謝委員我請我們林市廳長回覆這個比較專業的這個部分好 那我請警政署警政署來嘛 也請到這位起來來先請"},{"start":278.146,"end":294.362,"text":"是主席委員那個代表司法院在這邊做一個說明沒關係你說明那個有關那個書面告誡這個部分其實當初在制度設計的時候這個內政部當時就是因為考慮到像剛才王逸川委員所提到的狀況因為有些狀況不明"},{"start":296.064,"end":314.225,"text":"那不明的時候你立刻就讓他申請保護令這個其實對於某一些模糊地帶的不管是青少年也會有問題書面告誡當時內政部可以理解啦也不是警察不是警方不是檢察官這邊申請法院就一定照他們的申請來"},{"start":315.446,"end":336.259,"text":"來做一個核准這個可以理解可是問題就是說我從剛剛那個比例來看的話似乎我們司法院這個地方跟警政組這個地方你們對那個整個法律間接你們要去做一個統一再跟委員報告說明一下委員做的這一張表這個保護令刑事處罰實際上是違反保護令罪"},{"start":337.319,"end":359.005,"text":"我們在根梢法保護法當初就已經犯罪化了也就是一開始符合構成要件的就有可能構成刑事犯罪那刑事犯罪跟這個書面告誡它是一個行政跟刑事的雙軌進行所以不會因為你發不發書面告誡或中間有空窗就導致說刑事的保護不足這個要先跟委員說明一下"},{"start":360.166,"end":384.686,"text":"對 那我要請教的就是說像以現在來看的話你執行到現在 我看這個六十七件的一個職權申請裡面很多可以按照職權來做一個申請那可是呢 看起來駁回的部分也不小那當社會大眾會去質疑說這樣對被害人的一個保護到底是不是充足"},{"start":385.273,"end":414.203,"text":"甚至於說你們跟警政署這個地方是不是應該有一個做一個我們當初在修法的時候希望有一個定期的一個會商的一個機制這部分你們有做嗎?還是你們認為你們比較權威?警政署我們那個順便告誡我們在認定上是刑事訴訟法裡面的任意處分他沒有什麼強制力"},{"start":415.353,"end":440.959,"text":"所以我們在受理發現這個被害者如果真的有危險的話我們可以申請預防性的質疑啊是啦 現在不是這個問題啊你們這樣子變成說你們現在在委員會裡面的詢答跟你們這個發出來在哀哀叫的又不太一樣你們動不動就把人家推給說 啊我們就有行情啊啊法官不要亂轉啊 你們說的話就會說到這裡去了啊你們現在說的又不一樣了咧"},{"start":445.27,"end":469.54,"text":"是不是這樣說?我的意思是說在這個期間,你這樣按照職權申請的部分,駁回這麼高啦很多也未必會按照你們的意思,法院本來就不一定是你們申請以後法院一定要去做一個核准你們就出了這些,你們比較挫折,你們的講法本來是如此"},{"start":473.109,"end":485.954,"text":"對 這個因為保護令的核准還是法院在核准所以他們認定有時候他會去比較嚴格當然我們去保護被害人的立場我們希望是能夠盡快而且能夠比較寬鬆一點的執行"},{"start":489.015,"end":514.189,"text":"當然啦 審查的標準這個部分是不是該有更一致的一個看法司法院這個地方確實是可以更精進啦因為不同的法官本來就常常會出現不同的一個看法這部分我希望司法院這個地方也可以對民眾有一個適度的一個回應啦好不好然後司法院請回那我繼續要來請教的警政署的部分就是說"},{"start":515.35,"end":527.341,"text":"在科技偵查我們常常碰到一些障礙你像譬如說有一些電話 你說王一川 看他就很好啊不然你打電話給他 打電話給他 打電話給他還是我用那個假帳號 叫你王一川 一直叫叫叫叫你去找臉書 臉書設定那十四種狀況那你真的要去追蹤的話像這種狀況的話 譬如說我來騷擾"},{"start":541.693,"end":561.118,"text":"王一川,像這種情形,不要說社會大眾,你偵查上就有很多的一個障礙,那像這一些,你們有什麼因應的策略跟技術的一個資源來提升整個執法的一個效率?聽到王一川他就緊緊地在看,你有沒有看?代表他這種困擾很多啦。現在其實這個,"},{"start":563.698,"end":579.443,"text":"網際網路的部分社群媒體這個部分在我們國內設定的時候像MetaMeta的部分它就是比較大部分現在都可以配合Line也是一樣但是如果說它是公司是設定在境外的"},{"start":580.283,"end":597.88,"text":"像這個WeChat或是像這個WhatsApp這些像新加坡他們在用的這些我們可能在調位上會有比較麻煩必須要充分溝通但是目前他還是盡量會依個案會來同意"},{"start":598.82,"end":616.614,"text":"回來同意 這已經進步了 已經越來越會配合了您這有回答 聽不回答 王一川不滿意啦好啦 時間的問題啦 請回答 這個偵查都還必須要精進主席 抱歉 再給我一點時間 因為今天是預算的一個解凍所以我必須要再請司法院副秘書長上來一下來 副秘書長"},{"start":619.107,"end":642.46,"text":"副院長我再請問就是說我們從2024年8月15號新制的一個上路這個我們法院跟地檢委託衛護部醫審會的鑑定的機制這個全面暫停這個部分其實很多的一個塞車的狀況非常嚴重那司法院你去因應的措施跟成效來看的話"},{"start":644.221,"end":670.282,"text":"你們現在在去年跟今年尤其是今年三月份你們也召開了多次的一個諮詢的會議你們現在推出了兩項措施就是說鑑定人具名跟拒絕可以彌封不提供閱覽然後鑑定人出庭客才遠距或者隔離筆錄免記載各自我要請教副秘書長就是說這兩項的一個措施是否真的可以提升鑑定的一個參與的意願跟實際的成效"},{"start":674.583,"end":690.144,"text":"跟委員報告就是說有關於這個議題其實大部分篩測是在那個偵查中那所以說那個相關的那個部會現在也有達成的一個共識就是說在偵查中的時候呢就那個因為他還不需要到嚴格的那個"},{"start":691.065,"end":717.695,"text":"證明的這個部分所以說就還不要需要就是要有那個鑑定人具名跟那個具節啊這是現在目前因為大部分七百多件都是在那個偵查中就是現在這樣子那個處理那到法院這一端來的時候那個件數就不會有這麼多了那法院除了採取就是以上這個措施之外呢我們也有就是在廣闢其他的就是除了醫審會之外現在目前有有很多的那個醫療機構"},{"start":719.336,"end":731.803,"text":"還有就是協會跟協會的那個單位那甚至像那個台大法醫研究所也都願意就是加入這個鑑定我等一下跟你問喔 是兩項啦一項你們就是說鑑定費用比較多第二項就是說那出庭的部分喔 也是一樣是500啦有的人根本就沒有那個意願上次你們是講說 事實上你們是表示說會提高專家的一個費用那這個部分我想 這個部分我們也已經做了"},{"start":748.766,"end":753.235,"text":"阿所以你們會具體 已經具體落實了?已經有 已經有 現在多少?這個我讓那個廳長來回覆"},{"start":756.806,"end":783.188,"text":"那有關於那個鑑定費用的部分我們把它改成雙階段的兩階段的鑑定費用知己方法就是原先的書面報告的部分那是一個鑑定費用如果有鑑定人要出席的話有出席的鑑定費用那個這部分的說明費用我們3000到10000那或者是有4000塊根據那衛福部的那個精神鑑定的部分的收費標準出席出庭說明鑑定報告費用的部分在一次是4000塊錢"},{"start":784.389,"end":804.834,"text":"那有見見是 五百變四千是 甚至我們用專家證人的自己標準的話可以三千到一萬根據那個詢問的內容時間 反應程度來做一個調整我有一個比較 最後一個問題就好了因為其他問題我不好意思沒有時間不敢站人家太久就是我們醫審會的決議跟你初見定的醫師意見不一致這個問題這個比較麻煩的就是說"},{"start":811.315,"end":834.23,"text":"你如果說非醫師背景的委員會做成結論這個很明顯就不太符合我們刑事訴訟法鑑定人專業資格的一個要求那你初見的醫師你不參與最後的決議也不具名也不拒絕然後他的意見其實常常都對於整個決議他有實質的一個影響力這個部分我不曉得副秘書長你怎麼看"},{"start":836.434,"end":861.286,"text":"其實那個醫審會這個部分呢他們那個成員三分之二以上也都是那個醫師那其他是社會公正人士譬如說有一些法學的刑法法學背景的這一些那個的人那所以說他們其實過去以來他們那個運作呢就是說最後在醫審會的時候其實都會經過一個很充分的一個討論對我們剛好可憐說你像譬如說"},{"start":862.789,"end":886.412,"text":"因為憲法法庭大法官會議解釋也常常會有不同意見書啊你像比如說你去註記那個不同意見的一個機制然後和出審的意見跟決議不同的時候然後附上不同意見書給檢察官或者法院去做一個參酌我就覺得這個方式也還不錯這個可能要依審會他們來討論決定對我覺得這個建議我在想什麼第一個想到就是想到這個"},{"start":887.557,"end":894.776,"text":"我覺得可以參考一下是好方法我是覺得好方法不一定會被採取但至少是一個方向之一好不好 謝謝謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":327,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（9時58分）謝謝主席，有請法務部黃次長。"],["主席：請黃次長。一個而已喔？"],["黃次長世杰：委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：一個就好。次長，剛才我走下來，吳宗憲委員給我「趖」了一下，你知道嗎？「趖」一下就表示他說的有一點心虛啦！其實你剛剛都沒有回應，但吳宗憲委員剛剛就是胡說八道，你知道嗎？開玩笑跟你講啦，就是說，其實國民黨自己本身內部沒有對好啦！","吳宗憲委員，因為我不喜歡別人不在場時批評別人，剛好你在場，我不要說糾正啦，給你提醒。2024年12月23號，你們的賴士葆委員講，現在中央給地方的部分，除了統籌稅款，還有一般補助款及計畫補助款，這比例占的也蠻多的，中央政府根本不需要重編總預算，只需要減少補助款就可以了。換言之，行政院只需要在補助款裡面減少三千多億，一切就能迎刃而解。這個是你們賴士葆委員講的啦！不好意思，你要走了吧，我怎麼會不知道，這樣你就知道了吧？也就是說，當初在野黨在砍總預算的時候，他們把總預算砍了，然後整個到最後不知道要砍什麼的時候，通刪又再砍一次，對不對？砍到跟你說要刪什麼隨便你啦，你自己去刪，我不會啦！一般性補助就是在整個總預算裡面，你把總預算給砍了，哪有什麼其他的東西叫行政院、中央政府再自己去找錢出來，這個是有一點強人所難啦，這個部分我做這樣的一個補充。好，次長請回。","接下來請司法院副秘書長。"],["主席：副秘書長，請。"],["莊委員瑞雄：副秘書長好。我想整個跟騷法上路這三年，從零到有，確實踏出了關鍵一步，但是我們在三週年的此時所要討論的也不是只有好就好了，因為跟騷它不只是個人的問題，更是公共安全的延伸，我們很擔心制度的空隙就是下一個悲劇的溫床。我們看這部法的條文，現在看到的，大家好像認為只是在定義條文，其實真正的目的不是如此，我們當初是希望這部法令能變成人民安全守護的一個盾牌。現在我來做一些回顧，我們也一起來檢視這個制度的缺口。","我看到今天的報告裡面最主要是檢視這個法制的實施、成效，還有一些可能不足的地方，我們先來看這三年的成果，跟騷法所設計的這三道防線，其實當初那麼多人在呼籲，這三道防線是書面告誡、保護令及接下來的刑事處罰，我們來看一下相關數據：受理案件8,488件、開立書面告誡五千多件、違反告誡522件、家暴法保護令聲請1,979件、跟騷法保護令聲請412件、提告五千多件、移送4,531件。從這些數字裡面可以看得出來，就是從書面告誡到保護令核發之間有一個空窗的問題，對整個被害人來講的話，會形成一個保護的斷點。我想問的就是說，這個保護空窗期的實務問題以及我們如何去應對？從書面告誡到保護令核發需要經過一段時間，又怕這樣會釀成一個新案，我不曉得司法院對於發出書面告誡到保護令核發前，如何再去做更有效的保護作為？副秘書長，你的看法是怎麼樣？"],["王副秘書長梅英：謝謝委員，我請民事廳長回復這個比較專業的部分。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，我請警政署的代表也一起上來。"],["林廳長俊廷：主席、委員。我代表司法院在這邊做個說明。"],["莊委員瑞雄：沒關係，你說明。"],["林廳長俊廷：有關書面告誡的部分，其實當初在制度設計的時候，內政部當時就是因為考慮到像剛才王義川委員所提到的狀況，因為有些是狀況不明，在狀況不明的時候立刻就讓他聲請保護令，這個其實對於某一些模糊地帶的，不管是青少年，也會有問題，書面告誡當時內政部在做……"],["莊委員瑞雄：可以理解啦，也不是警察、警方或檢察官提出聲請，法院就一定會照他們的聲請來做核准，這個可以理解啦，可是問題就是說，我從剛剛那個比例來看的話，似乎司法院跟警政署對於整個法律見解要去做一個統一。"],["林廳長俊廷：再跟委員報告、說明一下，委員所做簡報上的保護令到刑事處罰實際上是違反保護令罪，我們在跟騷法、保護法當初就已經是犯罪化了，也就是一開始符合構成要件的就有可能構成刑事犯罪，刑事犯罪跟書面告誡是一個行政跟刑事的雙軌進行，所以不會因為發不發書面告誡或中間有空窗就導致刑事的保護不足，這個要先跟委員說明一下。"],["莊委員瑞雄：對，我要請教的就是說，以現在來看的話，執行到現在，我看到67件的職權聲請裡面，很多可以按照職權來做聲請，可是看起來駁回的部分也不少，社會大眾會質疑這樣對被害人的保護到底是不是充足，甚至於你們跟警政署是不是應該做一個……我們當初在修法的時候希望你們有定期會商的機制，這部分你們有做嗎？還是你們認為你們比較權威？請警政署說明。"],["詹副署長永茂：委員，有關書面告誡，我們在認定上是刑事訴訟法裡面的任意處分，也沒有什麼強制力，所以我們在受理時發現被害人如果真的有危險的話，我們可以聲請預防性的羈押。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啦！但是現在不是這個問題。這樣子變成你們現在在委員會裡面的詢答，跟你們發出來在哀哀叫的又不太一樣，你們動不動就推說你們都有聲請，是法官不核准，你們怎麼樣都會往這個方向說，你們現在在這裡說的又不一樣了，難道不是這樣？我的意思是，在這個期間，按照職權聲請的部分駁回這麼高，很多也未必會按照你們的意思，本來就不是你們聲請以後，法院一定要核准，你們遇到這種狀況比較挫折，你們的講法本來是如此。"],["詹副署長永茂：對，因為保護令還是法院在核准，他們有時候認定會比較嚴格，但是我們基於保護被害人的立場，我們希望是能夠儘快，而且能夠比較寬鬆一點的……"],["莊委員瑞雄：當然，審查標準是不是該有更一致的看法，司法院確實是可以更精進，因為不同的法官本來就常常會出現不同的看法，這部分我希望司法院可以對民眾有適度的回應，好不好？","我繼續要請教警政署的部分是，在科技偵查上常常碰到一些障礙，譬如有人討厭王義川，晚上就一直打電話給他，一直打、一直打，用公共電話打；或是我用假帳號去罵王義川，一直罵、罵、罵。你們去找臉書，臉書又設定那14種狀況，你真的要去追蹤的話……像這種狀況，不要說社會大眾，譬如我騷擾王義川這種情形，偵查上就有很多的障礙，對這一些你們有什麼因應的策略跟技術的資源來提升整個執法的效率？你看王義川，他現在睜大眼睛一直看，就代表他這種困擾很多。"],["詹副署長永茂：現在其實網際網路的部分、社群媒體的部分，在我們國內設定的時候，像Meta現在大部分都可以配合，LINE也是一樣。但是如果公司是設定在境外的，像WeChat、Threads，或是像WhatsApp，像這些新加坡在用的，我們可能在調閱上會比較麻煩，必須要充分溝通。但是目前還是儘量會依個案來同意，這個已經在進步了，已經越來越會配合了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們有回答等於沒回答，王義川不會滿意。偵查都必須要精進。主席不好意思，再給我一點時間，因為今天是預算的解凍，所以我必須再請司法院副秘書長上來一下。"],["主席：來，副秘書長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：副秘書長，我再請問，從2024年8月15號新制上路，法院跟地檢委託衛福部醫審會鑑定的機制全面暫停，其實很多塞車的狀況非常嚴重，以司法院因應的措施跟成效來看，去年跟今年，尤其是今年3月份，你們也召開了多次的諮詢會議，你們現在推出了兩項措施，鑑定人具名跟具結可以彌封，不提供閱覽，然後鑑定人出庭可採遠距或者隔離，筆錄免記載個資。我要請教副秘書長，這兩項的措施是否真的可以提升鑑定參與的意願跟實際的成效？"],["王副秘書長梅英：跟委員報告，有關於這個議題，其實大部分塞車的是在偵查中，所以相關部會現在也有達成一個共識，因為在偵查中的時候，還不需要嚴格證明，所以還不需要有鑑定人具名跟具結，目前因為七百多件大部分都是在偵查中，現在就是這樣子處理，到法院這一端來的時候，件數就不會有這麼多。法院除了採取以上措施之外，我們也有廣闢其他的單位，除了醫審會之外，目前也有很多的醫療機構，還有協會跟協會的單位，甚至像臺大法醫研究所也都願意加入鑑定。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我上次問你，是兩項。"],["王副秘書長梅英：對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：一項你們是說鑑定費用比較低；第二項，出庭的部分是500，有的人根本就沒有意願。上次你們說，司法院會提高專家的費用，這個部分……"],["王副秘書長梅英：這個部分我們也已經做了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以你們已經具體落實了？"],["王副秘書長梅英：已經有。"],["莊委員瑞雄：現在多少？"],["王副秘書長梅英：這個我讓廳長來回復。"],["李廳長釱任：委員好，有關於鑑定費用的部分，我們改成兩階段的鑑定費用支給方法，就是原先書面報告的部分是一個鑑定費用，如果有鑑定人要出席的話，有出席的鑑定費用，這部分的說明費用有3,000到1萬，或者是有4,000塊，根據衛福部精神鑑定部分的收費標準，出庭說明鑑定報告費用的部分，一次是4,000塊錢，由鑑定……"],["莊委員瑞雄：500變4,000？"],["李廳長釱任：是，甚至我們用專家證人的支給標準，可以是3,000到1萬，根據詢問的內容、時間和繁易程度來調整。以上。"],["莊委員瑞雄：最後一個問題就好，因為其他問題，我不好意思，沒有時間不敢占用太久。有關醫審會的決議跟初鑑定醫師意見不一致的問題，這個比較麻煩的是，如果非醫師背景的委員會做成結論，這個很明顯就不太符合我們刑事訴訟法鑑定人專業資格的要求，初鑑的醫師不參與最後的決議，不具名也不具結，然而他的意見其實常常都對於整個決議有實質的影響力，這個部分我不曉得副秘書長怎麼看？"],["王副秘書長梅英：其實醫審會他們成員三分之二以上也都是醫師，其他是社會公正人士，譬如說有一些刑法、法學背景的人，所以過去以來的運作，最後在醫審會其實都會經過很充分地討論。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我們有沒有可能這樣？譬如憲法法庭大法官會議解釋常常會有不同意見書，比如去註記不同意見的機制，當初審醫師的意見跟決議不同的時候，附上不同意見書給檢察官或者法院去參酌，我就覺得這個方式也還不錯！"],["王副秘書長梅英：這個可能要醫審會他們討論、決定。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我覺得我在這裡想一想，我第一個就想到這個建議，我覺得可以參考一下。"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好方法，我真的覺得是好方法，不一定會被採取，但至少是方向之一，好不好？謝謝。"],["王副秘書長梅英：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員。","接下來請沈發惠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":182,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-18","speakers":["莊瑞雄","黃國昌","王義川","吳宗憲","沈發惠","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","林淑芬","翁曉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳培瑜","葉元之","羅智強","張雅琳","邱鎮軍","林倩綺","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":121,"meetingDate":["2025-05-26"],"gazette_id":"1145302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145302_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部次長、內政部次長、教育部、衛生福利部、勞動部、內政部警\n政署就「跟蹤騷擾防制法施行三週年後，其制度成效、實務偵查、審判困境與未來修法展望」進\n行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理 114 年度中央政府總預算關於司法院預算凍結項目共 10 案；\n三、繼續處理114年度中央政府總預算關於國家安全會議預算凍結項目共3案","agenda_id":"1145302_00002"}}}