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00:00:25,199\n謝謝主席主席有請顧部長有請部長謝謝我要問的題目其實跟網路相關如果我們的資通電軍的指揮參謀長可以的話你可以一起回應部長其實過去在質詢的時候我蠻關注的就是有關於社群媒體包括過去我講到的這個在社群的平台有粉絲團啊或者是一些廣告那麼\n\n2\n00:00:25,879 --> 00:00:52,489\n引誘我們的軍中弟兄以所謂的軍人證就可以來貸款或者是低利貸款然後迫使他們進入一個金錢誘惑那麼可能造成我們的所謂軍中的資料或資訊外露的部分那麼在我的這個跟部長我們這個整個國安團隊以及我們國防部的努力之下其實本席現在去看那些粉專或者是相關的這種廣告其實已經減少非常多甚至於已經都找不到了\n\n3\n00:00:53,149 --> 00:00:58,773\n那麼但是我們都知道中國的灰色滲透方方面面我相信今天剛剛您來的時候媒體也都在問有關於這個花蓮的空軍基地在中國的社群平台當中被曝光那麼其實本席在許多的社群平台當中也都不斷的有網友在提醒\n\n4\n00:01:12,802 --> 00:01:21,249\n就是中國的社群平台看到台灣的軍機或者是我們這些軍民合作的這些空軍包括像這一張圖片是中國的抖音然後轉到了現在的包括其他的網路上面是我們的松山機場那麼我們知道那邊有一個松止步\n\n5\n00:01:31,758 --> 00:01:48,543\n其實這樣的資料或者是這樣的圖片跟影像在小紅書或者是抖音上面非常多甚至於是在抖音上有專門的這樣的帳號比如說我有看到的叫做什麼台灣小妮啊等等它其實就是不斷的在做一種台灣的軍事上面的曝光那麼其實這個它也可能是真的也可能是假的\n\n6\n00:01:58,686 --> 00:02:19,828\n但是無法避免的是在我們許多的基地比如說像松山的基地或者是像清泉崗基地它本身是軍民合用的同時一定就會有人會去進入攝影跟拍攝那是真是假不知如果部長所說的像今天花蓮的基地那個是假的\n\n7\n00:02:20,969 --> 00:02:35,040\n虛造的那它造成的是一種民心的擔憂因為包括像現在我們看到很多在報導當中都有提到就是會有人來拍攝台灣的街景拍攝台灣的學校那麼會認為是第五縱隊的滲透\n\n8\n00:02:39,804 --> 00:03:04,100\n那麼我想回到一個比較是管理面的部分來請問一下部長就是在我們幾個軍民合用的這些軍事基地當中我們到底能不能確保我們的空軍的這些包括軍機或者是粗缺勤的等等不會曝光在這個中國派人來進行操作或拍攝的過程部長參謀長要不要先說明一下\n\n9\n00:03:09,249 --> 00:03:36,371\n就空軍基地的部份軍民的養殖百報委員在民航的部分是比較難去限制但是在登機之後一般我們都會要求民航機的機組員要在機內做一個廣播那我們在機場也會同時做一個廣播但是如果說他用像現在的手機在機場裡面在座艙裡面做一個拍攝的話這個是比較難去做一個防範\n\n10\n00:03:37,259 --> 00:03:50,716\n是那比如說像當然因為我現在沒有特別的想要去播中國抖音的影片啦那麼你們如何來判斷或判別這個到底是真的還是假的那如果是假的讓他放在網路上面\n\n11\n00:03:52,418 --> 00:04:12,764\n它會造成的是一種台灣民心的擾動覺得這個所謂第五縱隊或是中國的這個大軍已經壓境那如果是真的又如何來避免說它繼續的在網路上面流傳或流竄其實這個是本席其實想要追的問題之一喔那我不知道是部長還是這個參謀長可以來回覆我想就這個部分\n\n12\n00:04:21,597 --> 00:04:47,784\n認知作戰的這個成分高那我們因此確實如委員所講的我們應該對這樣的一個認知作戰我們要進行反制是所以我想我們確實這個征戰部門也好我們相關的這些發言的系統也好我們應該要來快速然後極力的澄清這樣\n\n13\n00:04:48,604 --> 00:05:04,057\n部長我會提到這個部分是比如像這些影片除了我自己搜尋到之外也會有非常多的熱心的台灣的網友他會提供給我們到我的社群平台來那麼是真是假其實我不知道\n\n14\n00:05:04,437 --> 00:05:07,620\n我也必須透過質詢或者是私下來做詢問那為什麼本席會特別的想說我們其實是希望能夠解決問題我提出來的建議就是過去我剛剛為什麼開場的時候提到的是有關於軍人借貸的這種金融陷阱那麼\n\n15\n00:05:19,972 --> 00:05:28,881\n有沒有可能國防部可以跟數位部或者是跟NCC建立一個相關的就是射軍事影像流通的這個平台然後去確認或者是說可以有一個通報的一個系統那麼讓民眾如果真的也看到了可以來做提醒跟提示那麼有沒有可能建立這樣因為他們丟給我\n\n16\n00:05:44,775 --> 00:06:04,248\n丟給委員希望能夠好像爆料的方式然後不論是真是假他們也不知道但是他們看到了這樣的隱憂那麼有沒有可能是建組這樣的一個平台提供民眾就像信箱一樣email一樣然後可以讓他們至少可以把這個訊息提供出來而這個訊息的判辯的過程當中可能不只是國防部包括數位部數位發展部NCC等等可以至少是我們可以來掌握的像\n\n17\n00:06:13,534 --> 00:06:13,554\n呃張老師\n\n18\n00:06:32,519 --> 00:06:46,644\n我們本來就是行政院治安團隊的一員事實上這些東西我們每天都在進行24小時監控以外有任何的違規或滲透行為我們都互相通報及時應處這是我們既有的機制事實上一直每天都在進行\n\n19\n00:06:48,049 --> 00:06:52,131\n好本席的意思是說既然你們有一個機制在這裡那麼是一個行政院底下的資安團隊那麼如果當民眾發現了因為你知道往海無邊啊其實就靠你們來搜尋是不夠的那麼如果有像這種民眾熱心的網友他們搜尋到了或看到了他們要\n\n20\n00:07:11,061 --> 00:07:30,149\n提供資訊給我們那與其提供給立委的辦公室不如提供給行政院或相關的主責單位是不是更好那麼有沒有可能去研議就是可以適時的公佈這樣的一個可以算是接受訊息的E-mail信箱或者是一個網站\n\n21\n00:07:31,089 --> 00:07:54,264\n那麼這個其實是有助於其實更厲害的這個民間高手啊高手在民間可以提供更大量的相關的資訊跟情資那麼有沒有可能去建立這樣的一個所謂的當然算是個什麼爆料專線或信箱就是收羅這些訊息或資訊那麼可以讓民眾可以提供給我們相關的單位\n\n22\n00:07:56,328 --> 00:08:04,921\n我們每週三都有固定的這樣的會議我們針對委員的意見我們把這個在本週三我們把它提出來看我們是不是有一個研討一個方式看可不可以這樣執行\n\n23\n00:08:05,916 --> 00:08:31,411\n好因為時間到了當然我也希望就是這個灰色作戰的滲透其實方法是方方面面啦那包括這個國安的部分當然是國安局來做主責但是國防部警政系統包括警政署或是數位部等等我也建議其實要透過一個灰色作戰的跨部會的機制但是現在因為已經有一個國安相關的會議的話那麼至少我希望能夠設立一個這樣的一個機制跟平台讓\n\n24\n00:08:33,832 --> 00:08:38,738\n民間的朋友們他們發現相關的這樣的資訊的時候可以更快速的處理好嗎好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n369\t25199\t謝謝主席主席有請顧部長有請部長謝謝我要問的題目其實跟網路相關如果我們的資通電軍的指揮參謀長可以的話你可以一起回應部長其實過去在質詢的時候我蠻關注的就是有關於社群媒體包括過去我講到的這個在社群的平台有粉絲團啊或者是一些廣告那麼\n25879\t52489\t引誘我們的軍中弟兄以所謂的軍人證就可以來貸款或者是低利貸款然後迫使他們進入一個金錢誘惑那麼可能造成我們的所謂軍中的資料或資訊外露的部分那麼在我的這個跟部長我們這個整個國安團隊以及我們國防部的努力之下其實本席現在去看那些粉專或者是相關的這種廣告其實已經減少非常多甚至於已經都找不到了\n53149\t58773\t那麼但是我們都知道中國的灰色滲透方方面面我相信今天剛剛您來的時候媒體也都在問有關於這個花蓮的空軍基地在中國的社群平台當中被曝光那麼其實本席在許多的社群平台當中也都不斷的有網友在提醒\n72802\t81249\t就是中國的社群平台看到台灣的軍機或者是我們這些軍民合作的這些空軍包括像這一張圖片是中國的抖音然後轉到了現在的包括其他的網路上面是我們的松山機場那麼我們知道那邊有一個松止步\n91758\t108543\t其實這樣的資料或者是這樣的圖片跟影像在小紅書或者是抖音上面非常多甚至於是在抖音上有專門的這樣的帳號比如說我有看到的叫做什麼台灣小妮啊等等它其實就是不斷的在做一種台灣的軍事上面的曝光那麼其實這個它也可能是真的也可能是假的\n118686\t139828\t但是無法避免的是在我們許多的基地比如說像松山的基地或者是像清泉崗基地它本身是軍民合用的同時一定就會有人會去進入攝影跟拍攝那是真是假不知如果部長所說的像今天花蓮的基地那個是假的\n140969\t155040\t虛造的那它造成的是一種民心的擔憂因為包括像現在我們看到很多在報導當中都有提到就是會有人來拍攝台灣的街景拍攝台灣的學校那麼會認為是第五縱隊的滲透\n159804\t184100\t那麼我想回到一個比較是管理面的部分來請問一下部長就是在我們幾個軍民合用的這些軍事基地當中我們到底能不能確保我們的空軍的這些包括軍機或者是粗缺勤的等等不會曝光在這個中國派人來進行操作或拍攝的過程部長參謀長要不要先說明一下\n189249\t216371\t就空軍基地的部份 軍民的養殖百報委員 在民航的部分是比較難去限制但是在登機之後一般我們都會要求民航機的機組員要在機內做一個廣播那我們在機場也會同時做一個廣播但是如果說他用像現在的手機在機場裡面 在座艙裡面做一個拍攝的話這個是比較難去做一個防範\n217259\t230716\t是那比如說像當然因為我現在沒有特別的想要去播中國抖音的影片啦那麼你們如何來判斷或判別這個到底是真的還是假的那如果是假的讓他放在網路上面\n232418\t252764\t它會造成的是一種台灣民心的擾動覺得這個所謂第五縱隊或是中國的這個大軍已經壓境那如果是真的又如何來避免說它繼續的在網路上面流傳或流竄其實這個是本席其實想要追的問題之一喔那我不知道是部長還是這個參謀長可以來回覆我想就這個部分\n261597\t287784\t認知作戰的這個成分高那我們因此確實如委員所講的我們應該對這樣的一個認知作戰我們要進行反制是所以我想我們確實這個征戰部門也好我們相關的這些發言的系統也好我們應該要來快速然後極力的澄清這樣\n288604\t304057\t部長我會提到這個部分是比如像這些影片除了我自己搜尋到之外也會有非常多的熱心的台灣的網友他會提供給我們到我的社群平台來那麼是真是假其實我不知道\n304437\t307620\t我也必須透過質詢或者是私下來做詢問那為什麼本席會特別的想說我們其實是希望能夠解決問題我提出來的建議就是過去我剛剛為什麼開場的時候提到的是有關於軍人借貸的這種金融陷阱那麼\n319972\t328881\t有沒有可能國防部可以跟數位部或者是跟NCC建立一個相關的就是射軍事影像流通的這個平台然後去確認或者是說可以有一個通報的一個系統那麼讓民眾如果真的也看到了可以來做提醒跟提示那麼有沒有可能建立這樣因為他們丟給我\n344775\t364248\t丟給委員希望能夠好像爆料的方式然後不論是真是假他們也不知道但是他們看到了這樣的隱憂那麼有沒有可能是建組這樣的一個平台提供民眾就像信箱一樣email一樣然後可以讓他們至少可以把這個訊息提供出來而這個訊息的判辯的過程當中可能不只是國防部包括數位部數位發展部NCC等等可以至少是我們可以來掌握的像\n373534\t373554\t呃 張老師\n392519\t406644\t我們本來就是行政院治安團隊的一員事實上這些東西我們每天都在進行24小時監控以外有任何的違規或滲透行為我們都互相通報及時應處這是我們既有的機制事實上一直每天都在進行\n408049\t412131\t好本席的意思是說既然你們有一個機制在這裡那麼是一個行政院底下的資安團隊那麼如果當民眾發現了因為你知道往海無邊啊其實就靠你們來搜尋是不夠的那麼如果有像這種民眾熱心的網友他們搜尋到了或看到了他們要\n431061\t450149\t提供資訊給我們那與其提供給立委的辦公室不如提供給行政院或相關的主責單位是不是更好那麼有沒有可能去研議就是可以適時的公佈這樣的一個可以算是接受訊息的E-mail信箱或者是一個網站\n451089\t474264\t那麼這個其實是有助於其實更厲害的這個民間高手啊高手在民間可以提供更大量的相關的資訊跟情資那麼有沒有可能去建立這樣的一個所謂的當然算是個什麼爆料專線或信箱就是收羅這些訊息或資訊那麼可以讓民眾可以提供給我們相關的單位\n476328\t484921\t我們每週三都有固定的這樣的會議我們針對委員的意見我們把這個在本週三我們把它提出來看我們是不是有一個研討一個方式看可不可以這樣執行\n485916\t511411\t好因為時間到了當然我也希望就是這個灰色作戰的滲透其實方法是方方面面啦那包括這個國安的部分當然是國安局來做主責但是國防部警政系統包括警政署或是數位部等等我也建議其實要透過一個灰色作戰的跨部會的機制但是現在因為已經有一個國安相關的會議的話那麼至少我希望能夠設立一個這樣的一個機制跟平台讓\n513832\t518738\t民間的朋友們他們發現相關的這樣的資訊的時候可以更快速的處理好嗎好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席有請顧部長有請部長謝謝我要問的題目其實跟網路相關如果我們的資通電軍的指揮參謀長可以的話你可以一起回應部長其實過去在質詢的時候我蠻關注的就是有關於社群媒體包括過去我講到的這個在社群的平台有粉絲團啊或者是一些廣告那麼\n引誘我們的軍中弟兄以所謂的軍人證就可以來貸款或者是低利貸款然後迫使他們進入一個金錢誘惑那麼可能造成我們的所謂軍中的資料或資訊外露的部分那麼在我的這個跟部長我們這個整個國安團隊以及我們國防部的努力之下其實本席現在去看那些粉專或者是相關的這種廣告其實已經減少非常多甚至於已經都找不到了\n那麼但是我們都知道中國的灰色滲透方方面面我相信今天剛剛您來的時候媒體也都在問有關於這個花蓮的空軍基地在中國的社群平台當中被曝光那麼其實本席在許多的社群平台當中也都不斷的有網友在提醒\n就是中國的社群平台看到台灣的軍機或者是我們這些軍民合作的這些空軍包括像這一張圖片是中國的抖音然後轉到了現在的包括其他的網路上面是我們的松山機場那麼我們知道那邊有一個松止步\n其實這樣的資料或者是這樣的圖片跟影像在小紅書或者是抖音上面非常多甚至於是在抖音上有專門的這樣的帳號比如說我有看到的叫做什麼台灣小妮啊等等它其實就是不斷的在做一種台灣的軍事上面的曝光那麼其實這個它也可能是真的也可能是假的\n但是無法避免的是在我們許多的基地比如說像松山的基地或者是像清泉崗基地它本身是軍民合用的同時一定就會有人會去進入攝影跟拍攝那是真是假不知如果部長所說的像今天花蓮的基地那個是假的\n虛造的那它造成的是一種民心的擔憂因為包括像現在我們看到很多在報導當中都有提到就是會有人來拍攝台灣的街景拍攝台灣的學校那麼會認為是第五縱隊的滲透\n那麼我想回到一個比較是管理面的部分來請問一下部長就是在我們幾個軍民合用的這些軍事基地當中我們到底能不能確保我們的空軍的這些包括軍機或者是粗缺勤的等等不會曝光在這個中國派人來進行操作或拍攝的過程部長參謀長要不要先說明一下\n就空軍基地的部份 軍民的養殖百報委員 在民航的部分是比較難去限制但是在登機之後一般我們都會要求民航機的機組員要在機內做一個廣播那我們在機場也會同時做一個廣播但是如果說他用像現在的手機在機場裡面 在座艙裡面做一個拍攝的話這個是比較難去做一個防範\n是那比如說像當然因為我現在沒有特別的想要去播中國抖音的影片啦那麼你們如何來判斷或判別這個到底是真的還是假的那如果是假的讓他放在網路上面\n它會造成的是一種台灣民心的擾動覺得這個所謂第五縱隊或是中國的這個大軍已經壓境那如果是真的又如何來避免說它繼續的在網路上面流傳或流竄其實這個是本席其實想要追的問題之一喔那我不知道是部長還是這個參謀長可以來回覆我想就這個部分\n認知作戰的這個成分高那我們因此確實如委員所講的我們應該對這樣的一個認知作戰我們要進行反制是所以我想我們確實這個征戰部門也好我們相關的這些發言的系統也好我們應該要來快速然後極力的澄清這樣\n部長我會提到這個部分是比如像這些影片除了我自己搜尋到之外也會有非常多的熱心的台灣的網友他會提供給我們到我的社群平台來那麼是真是假其實我不知道\n我也必須透過質詢或者是私下來做詢問那為什麼本席會特別的想說我們其實是希望能夠解決問題我提出來的建議就是過去我剛剛為什麼開場的時候提到的是有關於軍人借貸的這種金融陷阱那麼\n有沒有可能國防部可以跟數位部或者是跟NCC建立一個相關的就是射軍事影像流通的這個平台然後去確認或者是說可以有一個通報的一個系統那麼讓民眾如果真的也看到了可以來做提醒跟提示那麼有沒有可能建立這樣因為他們丟給我\n丟給委員希望能夠好像爆料的方式然後不論是真是假他們也不知道但是他們看到了這樣的隱憂那麼有沒有可能是建組這樣的一個平台提供民眾就像信箱一樣email一樣然後可以讓他們至少可以把這個訊息提供出來而這個訊息的判辯的過程當中可能不只是國防部包括數位部數位發展部NCC等等可以至少是我們可以來掌握的像\n呃 張老師\n我們本來就是行政院治安團隊的一員事實上這些東西我們每天都在進行24小時監控以外有任何的違規或滲透行為我們都互相通報及時應處這是我們既有的機制事實上一直每天都在進行\n好本席的意思是說既然你們有一個機制在這裡那麼是一個行政院底下的資安團隊那麼如果當民眾發現了因為你知道往海無邊啊其實就靠你們來搜尋是不夠的那麼如果有像這種民眾熱心的網友他們搜尋到了或看到了他們要\n提供資訊給我們那與其提供給立委的辦公室不如提供給行政院或相關的主責單位是不是更好那麼有沒有可能去研議就是可以適時的公佈這樣的一個可以算是接受訊息的E-mail信箱或者是一個網站\n那麼這個其實是有助於其實更厲害的這個民間高手啊高手在民間可以提供更大量的相關的資訊跟情資那麼有沒有可能去建立這樣的一個所謂的當然算是個什麼爆料專線或信箱就是收羅這些訊息或資訊那麼可以讓民眾可以提供給我們相關的單位\n我們每週三都有固定的這樣的會議我們針對委員的意見我們把這個在本週三我們把它提出來看我們是不是有一個研討一個方式看可不可以這樣執行\n好因為時間到了當然我也希望就是這個灰色作戰的滲透其實方法是方方面面啦那包括這個國安的部分當然是國安局來做主責但是國防部警政系統包括警政署或是數位部等等我也建議其實要透過一個灰色作戰的跨部會的機制但是現在因為已經有一個國安相關的會議的話那麼至少我希望能夠設立一個這樣的一個機制跟平台讓\n民間的朋友們他們發現相關的這樣的資訊的時候可以更快速的處理好嗎好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.369 --> 00:25.199\n謝謝主席主席有請顧部長有請部長謝謝我要問的題目其實跟網路相關如果我們的資通電軍的指揮參謀長可以的話你可以一起回應部長其實過去在質詢的時候我蠻關注的就是有關於社群媒體包括過去我講到的這個在社群的平台有粉絲團啊或者是一些廣告那麼\n\n00:25.879 --> 00:52.489\n引誘我們的軍中弟兄以所謂的軍人證就可以來貸款或者是低利貸款然後迫使他們進入一個金錢誘惑那麼可能造成我們的所謂軍中的資料或資訊外露的部分那麼在我的這個跟部長我們這個整個國安團隊以及我們國防部的努力之下其實本席現在去看那些粉專或者是相關的這種廣告其實已經減少非常多甚至於已經都找不到了\n\n00:53.149 --> 00:58.773\n那麼但是我們都知道中國的灰色滲透方方面面我相信今天剛剛您來的時候媒體也都在問有關於這個花蓮的空軍基地在中國的社群平台當中被曝光那麼其實本席在許多的社群平台當中也都不斷的有網友在提醒\n\n01:12.802 --> 01:21.249\n就是中國的社群平台看到台灣的軍機或者是我們這些軍民合作的這些空軍包括像這一張圖片是中國的抖音然後轉到了現在的包括其他的網路上面是我們的松山機場那麼我們知道那邊有一個松止步\n\n01:31.758 --> 01:48.543\n其實這樣的資料或者是這樣的圖片跟影像在小紅書或者是抖音上面非常多甚至於是在抖音上有專門的這樣的帳號比如說我有看到的叫做什麼台灣小妮啊等等它其實就是不斷的在做一種台灣的軍事上面的曝光那麼其實這個它也可能是真的也可能是假的\n\n01:58.686 --> 02:19.828\n但是無法避免的是在我們許多的基地比如說像松山的基地或者是像清泉崗基地它本身是軍民合用的同時一定就會有人會去進入攝影跟拍攝那是真是假不知如果部長所說的像今天花蓮的基地那個是假的\n\n02:20.969 --> 02:35.040\n虛造的那它造成的是一種民心的擔憂因為包括像現在我們看到很多在報導當中都有提到就是會有人來拍攝台灣的街景拍攝台灣的學校那麼會認為是第五縱隊的滲透\n\n02:39.804 --> 03:04.100\n那麼我想回到一個比較是管理面的部分來請問一下部長就是在我們幾個軍民合用的這些軍事基地當中我們到底能不能確保我們的空軍的這些包括軍機或者是粗缺勤的等等不會曝光在這個中國派人來進行操作或拍攝的過程部長參謀長要不要先說明一下\n\n03:09.249 --> 03:36.371\n就空軍基地的部份軍民的養殖百報委員在民航的部分是比較難去限制但是在登機之後一般我們都會要求民航機的機組員要在機內做一個廣播那我們在機場也會同時做一個廣播但是如果說他用像現在的手機在機場裡面在座艙裡面做一個拍攝的話這個是比較難去做一個防範\n\n03:37.259 --> 03:50.716\n是那比如說像當然因為我現在沒有特別的想要去播中國抖音的影片啦那麼你們如何來判斷或判別這個到底是真的還是假的那如果是假的讓他放在網路上面\n\n03:52.418 --> 04:12.764\n它會造成的是一種台灣民心的擾動覺得這個所謂第五縱隊或是中國的這個大軍已經壓境那如果是真的又如何來避免說它繼續的在網路上面流傳或流竄其實這個是本席其實想要追的問題之一喔那我不知道是部長還是這個參謀長可以來回覆我想就這個部分\n\n04:21.597 --> 04:47.784\n認知作戰的這個成分高那我們因此確實如委員所講的我們應該對這樣的一個認知作戰我們要進行反制是所以我想我們確實這個征戰部門也好我們相關的這些發言的系統也好我們應該要來快速然後極力的澄清這樣\n\n04:48.604 --> 05:04.057\n部長我會提到這個部分是比如像這些影片除了我自己搜尋到之外也會有非常多的熱心的台灣的網友他會提供給我們到我的社群平台來那麼是真是假其實我不知道\n\n05:04.437 --> 05:07.620\n我也必須透過質詢或者是私下來做詢問那為什麼本席會特別的想說我們其實是希望能夠解決問題我提出來的建議就是過去我剛剛為什麼開場的時候提到的是有關於軍人借貸的這種金融陷阱那麼\n\n05:19.972 --> 05:28.881\n有沒有可能國防部可以跟數位部或者是跟NCC建立一個相關的就是射軍事影像流通的這個平台然後去確認或者是說可以有一個通報的一個系統那麼讓民眾如果真的也看到了可以來做提醒跟提示那麼有沒有可能建立這樣因為他們丟給我\n\n05:44.775 --> 06:04.248\n丟給委員希望能夠好像爆料的方式然後不論是真是假他們也不知道但是他們看到了這樣的隱憂那麼有沒有可能是建組這樣的一個平台提供民眾就像信箱一樣email一樣然後可以讓他們至少可以把這個訊息提供出來而這個訊息的判辯的過程當中可能不只是國防部包括數位部數位發展部NCC等等可以至少是我們可以來掌握的像\n\n06:13.534 --> 06:13.554\n呃張老師\n\n06:32.519 --> 06:46.644\n我們本來就是行政院治安團隊的一員事實上這些東西我們每天都在進行24小時監控以外有任何的違規或滲透行為我們都互相通報及時應處這是我們既有的機制事實上一直每天都在進行\n\n06:48.049 --> 06:52.131\n好本席的意思是說既然你們有一個機制在這裡那麼是一個行政院底下的資安團隊那麼如果當民眾發現了因為你知道往海無邊啊其實就靠你們來搜尋是不夠的那麼如果有像這種民眾熱心的網友他們搜尋到了或看到了他們要\n\n07:11.061 --> 07:30.149\n提供資訊給我們那與其提供給立委的辦公室不如提供給行政院或相關的主責單位是不是更好那麼有沒有可能去研議就是可以適時的公佈這樣的一個可以算是接受訊息的E-mail信箱或者是一個網站\n\n07:31.089 --> 07:54.264\n那麼這個其實是有助於其實更厲害的這個民間高手啊高手在民間可以提供更大量的相關的資訊跟情資那麼有沒有可能去建立這樣的一個所謂的當然算是個什麼爆料專線或信箱就是收羅這些訊息或資訊那麼可以讓民眾可以提供給我們相關的單位\n\n07:56.328 --> 08:04.921\n我們每週三都有固定的這樣的會議我們針對委員的意見我們把這個在本週三我們把它提出來看我們是不是有一個研討一個方式看可不可以這樣執行\n\n08:05.916 --> 08:31.411\n好因為時間到了當然我也希望就是這個灰色作戰的滲透其實方法是方方面面啦那包括這個國安的部分當然是國安局來做主責但是國防部警政系統包括警政署或是數位部等等我也建議其實要透過一個灰色作戰的跨部會的機制但是現在因為已經有一個國安相關的會議的話那麼至少我希望能夠設立一個這樣的一個機制跟平台讓\n\n08:33.832 --> 08:38.738\n民間的朋友們他們發現相關的這樣的資訊的時候可以更快速的處理好嗎好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.369,"end":25.199,"text":"謝謝主席主席有請顧部長有請部長謝謝我要問的題目其實跟網路相關如果我們的資通電軍的指揮參謀長可以的話你可以一起回應部長其實過去在質詢的時候我蠻關注的就是有關於社群媒體包括過去我講到的這個在社群的平台有粉絲團啊或者是一些廣告那麼"},{"start":25.879,"end":52.489,"text":"引誘我們的軍中弟兄以所謂的軍人證就可以來貸款或者是低利貸款然後迫使他們進入一個金錢誘惑那麼可能造成我們的所謂軍中的資料或資訊外露的部分那麼在我的這個跟部長我們這個整個國安團隊以及我們國防部的努力之下其實本席現在去看那些粉專或者是相關的這種廣告其實已經減少非常多甚至於已經都找不到了"},{"start":53.149,"end":58.773,"text":"那麼但是我們都知道中國的灰色滲透方方面面我相信今天剛剛您來的時候媒體也都在問有關於這個花蓮的空軍基地在中國的社群平台當中被曝光那麼其實本席在許多的社群平台當中也都不斷的有網友在提醒"},{"start":72.802,"end":81.249,"text":"就是中國的社群平台看到台灣的軍機或者是我們這些軍民合作的這些空軍包括像這一張圖片是中國的抖音然後轉到了現在的包括其他的網路上面是我們的松山機場那麼我們知道那邊有一個松止步"},{"start":91.758,"end":108.543,"text":"其實這樣的資料或者是這樣的圖片跟影像在小紅書或者是抖音上面非常多甚至於是在抖音上有專門的這樣的帳號比如說我有看到的叫做什麼台灣小妮啊等等它其實就是不斷的在做一種台灣的軍事上面的曝光那麼其實這個它也可能是真的也可能是假的"},{"start":118.686,"end":139.828,"text":"但是無法避免的是在我們許多的基地比如說像松山的基地或者是像清泉崗基地它本身是軍民合用的同時一定就會有人會去進入攝影跟拍攝那是真是假不知如果部長所說的像今天花蓮的基地那個是假的"},{"start":140.969,"end":155.04,"text":"虛造的那它造成的是一種民心的擔憂因為包括像現在我們看到很多在報導當中都有提到就是會有人來拍攝台灣的街景拍攝台灣的學校那麼會認為是第五縱隊的滲透"},{"start":159.804,"end":184.1,"text":"那麼我想回到一個比較是管理面的部分來請問一下部長就是在我們幾個軍民合用的這些軍事基地當中我們到底能不能確保我們的空軍的這些包括軍機或者是粗缺勤的等等不會曝光在這個中國派人來進行操作或拍攝的過程部長參謀長要不要先說明一下"},{"start":189.249,"end":216.371,"text":"就空軍基地的部份 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在座艙裡面做一個拍攝的話這個是比較難去做一個防範"},{"start":217.259,"end":230.716,"text":"是那比如說像當然因為我現在沒有特別的想要去播中國抖音的影片啦那麼你們如何來判斷或判別這個到底是真的還是假的那如果是假的讓他放在網路上面"},{"start":232.418,"end":252.764,"text":"它會造成的是一種台灣民心的擾動覺得這個所謂第五縱隊或是中國的這個大軍已經壓境那如果是真的又如何來避免說它繼續的在網路上面流傳或流竄其實這個是本席其實想要追的問題之一喔那我不知道是部長還是這個參謀長可以來回覆我想就這個部分"},{"start":261.597,"end":287.784,"text":"認知作戰的這個成分高那我們因此確實如委員所講的我們應該對這樣的一個認知作戰我們要進行反制是所以我想我們確實這個征戰部門也好我們相關的這些發言的系統也好我們應該要來快速然後極力的澄清這樣"},{"start":288.604,"end":304.057,"text":"部長我會提到這個部分是比如像這些影片除了我自己搜尋到之外也會有非常多的熱心的台灣的網友他會提供給我們到我的社群平台來那麼是真是假其實我不知道"},{"start":304.437,"end":307.62,"text":"我也必須透過質詢或者是私下來做詢問那為什麼本席會特別的想說我們其實是希望能夠解決問題我提出來的建議就是過去我剛剛為什麼開場的時候提到的是有關於軍人借貸的這種金融陷阱那麼"},{"start":319.972,"end":328.881,"text":"有沒有可能國防部可以跟數位部或者是跟NCC建立一個相關的就是射軍事影像流通的這個平台然後去確認或者是說可以有一個通報的一個系統那麼讓民眾如果真的也看到了可以來做提醒跟提示那麼有沒有可能建立這樣因為他們丟給我"},{"start":344.775,"end":364.248,"text":"丟給委員希望能夠好像爆料的方式然後不論是真是假他們也不知道但是他們看到了這樣的隱憂那麼有沒有可能是建組這樣的一個平台提供民眾就像信箱一樣email一樣然後可以讓他們至少可以把這個訊息提供出來而這個訊息的判辯的過程當中可能不只是國防部包括數位部數位發展部NCC等等可以至少是我們可以來掌握的像"},{"start":373.534,"end":373.554,"text":"呃 張老師"},{"start":392.519,"end":406.644,"text":"我們本來就是行政院治安團隊的一員事實上這些東西我們每天都在進行24小時監控以外有任何的違規或滲透行為我們都互相通報及時應處這是我們既有的機制事實上一直每天都在進行"},{"start":408.049,"end":412.131,"text":"好本席的意思是說既然你們有一個機制在這裡那麼是一個行政院底下的資安團隊那麼如果當民眾發現了因為你知道往海無邊啊其實就靠你們來搜尋是不夠的那麼如果有像這種民眾熱心的網友他們搜尋到了或看到了他們要"},{"start":431.061,"end":450.149,"text":"提供資訊給我們那與其提供給立委的辦公室不如提供給行政院或相關的主責單位是不是更好那麼有沒有可能去研議就是可以適時的公佈這樣的一個可以算是接受訊息的E-mail信箱或者是一個網站"},{"start":451.089,"end":474.264,"text":"那麼這個其實是有助於其實更厲害的這個民間高手啊高手在民間可以提供更大量的相關的資訊跟情資那麼有沒有可能去建立這樣的一個所謂的當然算是個什麼爆料專線或信箱就是收羅這些訊息或資訊那麼可以讓民眾可以提供給我們相關的單位"},{"start":476.328,"end":484.921,"text":"我們每週三都有固定的這樣的會議我們針對委員的意見我們把這個在本週三我們把它提出來看我們是不是有一個研討一個方式看可不可以這樣執行"},{"start":485.916,"end":511.411,"text":"好因為時間到了當然我也希望就是這個灰色作戰的滲透其實方法是方方面面啦那包括這個國安的部分當然是國安局來做主責但是國防部警政系統包括警政署或是數位部等等我也建議其實要透過一個灰色作戰的跨部會的機制但是現在因為已經有一個國安相關的會議的話那麼至少我希望能夠設立一個這樣的一個機制跟平台讓"},{"start":513.832,"end":518.738,"text":"民間的朋友們他們發現相關的這樣的資訊的時候可以更快速的處理好嗎好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":399,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時35分）謝謝主席。主席，有請顧部長。"],["主席：有請部長，謝謝。"],["林委員楚茵：我要問的題目其實跟網路相關，如果資通電軍指揮參謀長可以的話，可以一起回應。","部長，過去在質詢的時候我滿關注有關於社群媒體，包括過去我講到在社群平臺有粉絲團或者是一些廣告引誘軍中弟兄，以所謂的軍人證就可以貸款或者是低利貸款，然後迫使他們進入金錢誘惑，進而可能造成軍中資料或資訊外漏。在我跟部長，還有整個國安團隊以及國防部的努力之下，本席現在去看那些粉專或者是相關的廣告，其實已經減少非常多，甚至於已經都找不到了，但是我們都知道中國的灰色滲透方方面面，我相信今天您來的時候，媒體也都在問有關於花蓮空軍基地在中國的社群平臺被曝光。其實本席在許多社群平臺當中也不斷有網友在提醒，就是在中國的社群平臺看到臺灣的軍機或者是軍民合作的空軍，像這張圖片是中國的抖音轉到其他網路上，就是我們的松山機場，我們知道那邊有一個松指部，像這樣的資料或者圖片、影像在小紅書或者是抖音上面非常多，甚至於在抖音上有專門的帳號，比如說，我有看到叫做臺灣小妮等等，它其實就是不斷的在做臺灣軍事上面的曝光，這個可能是真的、也可能是假的，但是無法避免的是在我們許多基地，比如說松山基地或者是清泉崗基地，因為它本身是軍民合用，所以就一定有人會進入攝影跟拍攝，是真、是假，不知！如果如部長所說的，今天花蓮基地那個是假的、是虛造的，那它造成的是一種民心的擔憂。包括現在我們看到很多在報導當中都有提到會有人來拍攝臺灣街景、拍攝臺灣的學校，會認為是第五縱隊的滲透。我想回到一個比較是管理面的部分請問部長，就是在我們這幾個軍民合用的軍事基地當中，我們到底能不能確保我們空軍的軍機或者是出缺勤等等，不會曝光在中國派人來進行操作或拍攝的過程？部長。"],["顧部長立雄：參謀長要不要先就軍民兩用空軍基地的部分說明一下？"],["李參謀長慶然：報告委員，在民航的部分比較難去限制，但是在登機之後，一般我們都會要求民航機的機組員要在機內廣播，我們在機場也會同時廣播，但是如果他用手機在機場裡面、在座艙裡面拍攝的話，這個是比較難去防範的。"],["林委員楚茵：我現在沒有特別想播中國抖音的影片，你們如何判斷或判別這個到底是真的還是假的？如果是假的，讓它放在網路上面，它會造成的是一種臺灣民心的擾動，會覺得所謂第五縱隊或是中國大軍已經壓境。如果是真的，我們又如何避免它繼續在網路上面流傳或流竄？其實這個是本席想要追的問題之一，不知道是部長還是參謀長可以回復？"],["顧部長立雄：我想就這個部分認知作戰的成分高，因此確實如委員所講的，我們應該對這樣的一個認知作戰進行反制，所以政戰部門也好，相關發言的系統也好，應該要快速、極力的澄清。"],["林委員楚茵：好，部長，我會提到這個部分，比如像這些影片，除了我自己搜尋到之外，也會有非常多熱心的臺灣網友提供到我的社群平臺來，那麼是真、是假，其實我不知道，我也必須透過質詢或私下詢問。為什麼本席會特別的講，其實是希望能夠解決問題。我提出來的建議就是像我剛剛開場的時候提到有關於軍人借貸的這種金融陷阱，有沒有可能國防部可以跟數位部或NCC建立一個相關的……涉軍事影像流通平臺去確認或者可以有一個通報系統，讓民眾如果真的也看到了，可以來做提醒跟提示，有沒有可能建立？因為他們丟給我、丟給委員，好像是爆料的方式，不論是真是假，他們也不知道，但是他們看到了這樣的隱憂，那麼有沒有可能建築這樣的一個平臺，就像信箱一樣、email一樣，至少可以讓民眾把訊息提供出來，而這個訊息的判辨過程當中，可能不只是國防部，包括數位發展部、NCC等等，至少是我們可以掌握的，像Meta或者是Google，我們可以請它下架，可是如果是在像抖音或小紅書，我們沒有辦法，但至少有沒有什麼方式可以進行有效的管理或處理？"],["鄧次長恩憐：委員好。我是通次室次長，我們現在本來就是行政院資安團隊的一員，事實上，這些東西我們每天都在進行24小時監控以外，有任何不管是違規或有滲透行為，我們都互相通報、及時應處，這是我們既有的機制，事實上，每天都在進行的。"],["林委員楚茵：好，本席的意思是說，既然你們有一個機制在這裡，是一個行政院底下的資安團隊，當民眾發現時因為你知道網海無邊，其實就靠你們搜尋是不夠的，那麼如果有像這種熱心的網友、民眾，他們搜尋到了或看到了，他們要提供資訊給我們，與其提供給立委的辦公室，不如提供給行政院或相關的主責單位是不是更好？那麼有沒有可能去研議，就是適時地公布這樣一個可以接受訊息的email信箱或網站有助於更厲害的民間高手？因為高手在民間，可以提供更大量的、相關的資訊跟情資。有沒有可能去建立一個算是爆料的專線或信箱，蒐羅這些訊息或資訊，讓民眾可以提供給我們相關的單位？"],["鄧次長恩憐：我們每週三都有固定的會議，針對委員的意見，我們在本週三會把它提出來，研討看看可不可以這樣執行。"],["林委員楚茵：好，因為時間到了，當然我也知道這個灰色作戰的滲透，其方法是方方面面，包括國安的部分，當然是國安局來主責，但是國防部、警政系統，包括警政署或數位部等等，我也建議要透過一個灰色作戰的跨部會機制，但是現在因為已經有一個國安相關會議，那麼至少我希望能夠設立這樣一個機制跟平臺，讓民間的朋友們，當他們發現這樣相關資訊的時候，可以更快速地處理，好嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楚茵委員，部長請回。","接下來有請鄭天財委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-17","speakers":["沈伯洋","羅美玲","陳俊宇","黃仁","王定宇","徐巧芯","林楚茵","鄭天財Sra 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