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\"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 531.013, \"end\": 531.033, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 531.033, \"end\": 531.133, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 531.133, \"end\": 531.153, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,290 --> 00:00:02,739\n我請部長我請部長\n\n2\n00:00:10,930 --> 00:00:11,911\n針對軍事審判的部分,你說要重新開機。過去大家也都提過,當年你是作為太陽花的律師的時候,你說絕對要不允許軍法來做復辟。\n\n3\n00:00:32,142 --> 00:00:34,264\n那當然你現在又講說時空環境不一樣了等等之類那我想請問一下有關於就是不管是通敵或泄密或者是有共諜案現在都是在司法院法庭上去處理\n\n4\n00:00:53,004 --> 00:01:16,642\n那請問一下在您認為說必須要重新開機第一個你是認為現在司法院審理這些相關的案件他們不夠專業還是不夠到位第二個您認為如果成立了這個軍法的法庭是真的可以去保障司法的人權嗎\n\n5\n00:01:18,535 --> 00:01:35,130\n我想這個問題我之前已經回答多次了就是說現在軍審法並沒有完全廢除這個軍事審判包括在戰時的時候呢要馬上恢復軍事審判那因為從那現在是戰時呢還是準戰爭狀態嗎還是即將進入戰爭狀態呢但是委員跟委員報告\n\n6\n00:01:42,136 --> 00:02:02,467\n我們要做任何的一個完整的一個準備如果說今天按照現在這個狀況我們從102年廢除了軍事審判制度之後現在所有軍事審判的量能是完全喪失了\n\n7\n00:02:03,427 --> 00:02:24,578\n那不管我們以後會面對什麼樣子的一個挑戰我們的軍事審判在喪失功能的情況之下要一夕之間要能夠恢復這是一件不可能的事情所以我們認為應該要在平時維持一定的量能所以我們將它限縮在陸海公軍所以你會不會認為當年你說絕對不允許復必因為當年也有可能任何的狀況\n\n8\n00:02:31,081 --> 00:02:35,025\n也有可能進入戰時啊對不對也有可能能量不足啊而當時你的立場是絕對不允許軍法復辟那我現在要請教部長的是你說現在要做一個準備這個準備是準備進入戰時的一個狀態嗎因為你剛才講得非常清楚軍法\n\n9\n00:02:53,123 --> 00:03:17,782\n法庭從來沒有審判並沒有被廢除但是非常明確的在暫時的時候要恢復軍閥審判所以這個準備是為了作戰而準備的嗎跟委員報告能不能讓我報告兩點就好了第一點任何國軍在做備戰的部分都是要來因應未來可能在台海地區發生的衝突我想這是國防部的義務\n\n10\n00:03:19,233 --> 00:03:34,479\n這是也是光不存在的價值這是第一點我們第二個我們要恢復的軍事審判當然不是回到過去被人詬病的軍事審判我們要符合這一個政黨法律程序原則跟公平法院設計的\n\n11\n00:03:37,159 --> 00:03:42,581\n一個新的軍事審判制度這樣的一個軍事審判制度是一個獨立的因為即便在102年的時候你去問當時的國防部長難道他不做作戰的準備嗎當時102年你去問當時的國防部長難道他說他完全不做作戰的準備嗎第二個你認為現在的軍事法庭一定不像以前的詬病的軍事法庭\n\n12\n00:04:01,348 --> 00:04:26,051\n但是大家也知道恢復軍事法庭之後包含你還有檢察署吧對不對所以我們現在對不對也就檢察署還有檢院都在你國防部底下也有很多人會質疑那這樣能不能夠完全的去保障司法人權所以我要講的就是說時空環境變了也許你換了位子也換了腦袋\n\n13\n00:04:27,572 --> 00:04:40,370\n但是我覺得從一個反走過必留下痕跡如果你現在的你的理由是正確的並不代表102年這些理由通通不存在我剛剛就講過嘛就是你在講說你要做作戰準備\n\n14\n00:04:44,255 --> 00:04:53,179\n你五年前十年前所有的國防部長所有的一線的我們的這個關閉弟兄也都在做作戰的準備難道他們當時都是在睡覺嗎不可能所以我覺得現在要恢復軍事審判你們還是要跟社會大眾要有一定的溝通和對話而不是只是說我們現在就是變成是好像反正處處是共諜\n\n15\n00:05:10,126 --> 00:05:16,251\n然後我們現役軍人每個人可能都會泄密每個人都會通敵我們要講的是在軍中的文化其實我們最擔心的就是莫名其妙的入人於罪而採取了軍事法庭之後而使得在他的司法人權沒有受到一定的尊重最後造成冤獄\n\n16\n00:05:34,986 --> 00:05:39,872\n所以我覺得這點是非常非常重要的所以當你講說所謂的重新開機的時候也請你要拜託你們要跟社會要有一定的對話那另外我時間到了但是我還是要特別提到就說在我可以先回答這個問題嗎\n\n17\n00:05:53,570 --> 00:06:14,263\n你可以用書面我不浪費大家時間我簡單回答我們要設軍事懷孕組織法我們要設軍事檢查署組織法我們要設獨立的人事審議委員會這是在過去都沒有的那我們所要重新開機的一定會是跟過去所被人所詬病的軍事審判制度是不一樣那我們一定會重視這一個真實的發現跟這個軍機的維護的這個雙重的要求\n\n18\n00:06:19,868 --> 00:06:25,785\n我希望我們在草案提出來以後我們也會跟社會做一個充分的溝通\n\n19\n00:06:26,912 --> 00:06:33,137\n這是必須的那另外我花一點點時間就是我們的這個在我們的軍品裡面紅色供應鏈事實上是一直層出不窮不能一方面你在抗中然後動不動就丟人家是中共同路人但是在我們的軍事的相關的軍品裡面一而再再而三的發現紅色供應鏈的滲透\n\n20\n00:06:56,254 --> 00:07:01,899\n這裡面像火箭推進劑的原料這個我也曾經質疑那是在部長擔任部長之前我也曾經質疑現在連戰鬥背心也有然後我們馬文君委員也提到了我們的無人機長期也去使用中國的這些零件這些部分請國防部應該提出相關的辦法而不是三不五時就會爆出來\n\n21\n00:07:23,897 --> 00:07:27,238\n就要爆出來有這些相關的這些事件而我們會看到相關單位也沒有什麼懲處啊所以我們的委員才會一直會接到不同的懲請所以這個部分是不是請國防部也給我們一個就是書面的一個資料書面的說法\n\n22\n00:07:45,486 --> 00:07:47,087\n針對要怎麼樣切斷紅色供應鏈避免紅色供應鏈滲透我們的軍品你們必須要有一個確切的一個做法包含怎麼樣去懲處怎麼樣會去杜絕可不可以\n\n23\n00:08:04,403 --> 00:08:24,557\n簡單兩點第一點確定確確的要防止這個飛鴻的供應鏈一定要在台灣的本土產生出自我的產能而且要將所有的關鍵零組件都在台灣製造我想這個才是根本之道第二個我們很多事情都是在我們驗收的階段就發現\n\n24\n00:08:25,638 --> 00:08:51,153\n而這些驗收階段發現之後我們就來排除所以結論就是說建立一個非紅的供應鏈的根本之道就是以無人機來講我們一定要在建立我們自主的產能這個在平時跟在暫時都是有需要的好我請那個因為我們不要浪費大家時間如果可以的話就書面來提供我們資料好不好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n290\t2739\t我請部長我請部長\n10930\t11911\t針對軍事審判的部分,你說要重新開機。過去大家也都提過,當年你是作為太陽花的律師的時候,你說絕對要不允許軍法來做復辟。\n32142\t34264\t那當然你現在又講說時空環境不一樣了等等之類那我想請問一下有關於就是不管是通敵或泄密或者是有共諜案現在都是在司法院法庭上去處理\n53004\t76642\t那請問一下在您認為說必須要重新開機第一個你是認為現在司法院審理這些相關的案件他們不夠專業還是不夠到位第二個您認為如果成立了這個軍法的法庭是真的可以去保障司法的人權嗎\n78535\t95130\t我想這個問題我之前已經回答多次了就是說現在軍審法並沒有完全廢除這個軍事審判包括在戰時的時候呢要馬上恢復軍事審判那因為從那現在是戰時呢還是準戰爭狀態嗎還是即將進入戰爭狀態呢但是委員跟委員報告\n102136\t122467\t我們要做任何的一個完整的一個準備如果說今天按照現在這個狀況我們從102年廢除了軍事審判制度之後現在所有軍事審判的量能是完全喪失了\n123427\t144578\t那不管我們以後會面對什麼樣子的一個挑戰我們的軍事審判在喪失功能的情況之下要一夕之間要能夠恢復這是一件不可能的事情所以我們認為應該要在平時維持一定的量能所以我們將它限縮在陸海公軍所以你會不會認為當年你說絕對不允許復必因為當年也有可能任何的狀況\n151081\t155025\t也有可能進入戰時啊對不對也有可能能量不足啊而當時你的立場是絕對不允許軍法復辟那我現在要請教部長的是你說現在要做一個準備這個準備是準備進入戰時的一個狀態嗎因為你剛才講得非常清楚軍法\n173123\t197782\t法庭從來沒有審判並沒有被廢除但是非常明確的在暫時的時候要恢復軍閥審判所以這個準備是為了作戰而準備的嗎跟委員報告能不能讓我報告兩點就好了第一點任何國軍在做備戰的部分都是要來因應未來可能在台海地區發生的衝突我想這是國防部的義務\n199233\t214479\t這是也是光不存在的價值這是第一點我們第二個我們要恢復的軍事審判當然不是回到過去被人詬病的軍事審判我們要符合這一個政黨法律程序原則跟公平法院設計的\n217159\t222581\t一個新的軍事審判制度這樣的一個軍事審判制度是一個獨立的因為即便在102年的時候你去問當時的國防部長難道他不做作戰的準備嗎當時102年你去問當時的國防部長難道他說他完全不做作戰的準備嗎第二個你認為現在的軍事法庭一定不像以前的詬病的軍事法庭\n241348\t266051\t但是大家也知道 恢復軍事法庭之後 包含你還有檢察署吧 對不對所以我們現在 對不對 也就檢察署 還有檢院都在你國防部底下也有很多人會質疑 那這樣能不能夠完全的去保障司法人權所以我要講的就是說 時空環境變了 也許你換了位子 也換了腦袋\n267572\t280370\t但是我覺得從一個反走過必留下痕跡如果你現在的你的理由是正確的並不代表102年這些理由通通不存在我剛剛就講過嘛就是你在講說你要做作戰準備\n284255\t293179\t你五年前十年前所有的國防部長所有的一線的我們的這個關閉弟兄也都在做作戰的準備難道他們當時都是在睡覺嗎不可能所以我覺得現在要恢復軍事審判你們還是要跟社會大眾要有一定的溝通和對話而不是只是說我們現在就是變成是好像反正處處是共諜\n310126\t316251\t然後我們現役軍人 每個人可能都會泄密 每個人都會通敵我們要講的是在軍中的文化 其實我們最擔心的就是莫名其妙的入人於罪而採取了軍事法庭之後 而使得在他的司法人權沒有受到一定的尊重 最後造成冤獄\n334986\t339872\t所以我覺得這點是非常非常重要的所以當你講說所謂的重新開機的時候也請你要拜託你們要跟社會要有一定的對話那另外我時間到了但是我還是要特別提到就說在我可以先回答這個問題嗎\n353570\t374263\t你可以用書面 我不浪費大家時間我簡單回答 我們要設軍事懷孕組織法我們要設軍事檢查署組織法我們要設獨立的人事審議委員會這是在過去都沒有的那我們所要重新開機的一定會是跟過去所被人所詬病的軍事審判制度是不一樣那我們一定會重視這一個真實的發現跟這個軍機的維護的這個雙重的要求\n379868\t385785\t我希望我們在草案提出來以後我們也會跟社會做一個充分的溝通\n386912\t393137\t這是必須的那另外我花一點點時間就是我們的這個在我們的軍品裡面紅色供應鏈事實上是一直層出不窮不能一方面你在抗中然後動不動就丟人家是中共同路人但是在我們的軍事的相關的軍品裡面一而再再而三的發現紅色供應鏈的滲透\n416254\t421899\t這裡面像火箭推進劑的原料這個我也曾經質疑那是在部長擔任部長之前我也曾經質疑現在連戰鬥背心也有然後我們馬文君委員也提到了我們的無人機長期也去使用中國的這些零件這些部分請國防部應該提出相關的辦法而不是三不五時就會爆出來\n443897\t447238\t就要爆出來有這些相關的這些事件而我們會看到相關單位也沒有什麼懲處啊所以我們的委員才會一直會接到不同的懲請所以這個部分是不是請國防部也給我們一個就是書面的一個資料書面的說法\n465486\t467087\t針對要怎麼樣切斷紅色供應鏈避免紅色供應鏈滲透我們的軍品你們必須要有一個確切的一個做法包含怎麼樣去懲處 怎麼樣會去杜絕 可不可以\n484403\t504557\t簡單兩點 第一點 確定 確確的要防止這個飛鴻的供應鏈一定要在台灣的本土產生出自我的產能而且要將所有的關鍵零組件都在台灣製造我想這個才是根本之道第二個 我們很多事情都是在我們驗收的階段就發現\n505638\t531153\t而這些驗收階段發現之後我們就來排除所以結論就是說建立一個非紅的供應鏈的根本之道就是以無人機來講我們一定要在建立我們自主的產能這個在平時跟在暫時都是有需要的好 我請那個因為我們不要浪費大家時間如果可以的話就書面來提供我們資料好不好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"我請部長我請部長\n針對軍事審判的部分,你說要重新開機。過去大家也都提過,當年你是作為太陽花的律師的時候,你說絕對要不允許軍法來做復辟。\n那當然你現在又講說時空環境不一樣了等等之類那我想請問一下有關於就是不管是通敵或泄密或者是有共諜案現在都是在司法院法庭上去處理\n那請問一下在您認為說必須要重新開機第一個你是認為現在司法院審理這些相關的案件他們不夠專業還是不夠到位第二個您認為如果成立了這個軍法的法庭是真的可以去保障司法的人權嗎\n我想這個問題我之前已經回答多次了就是說現在軍審法並沒有完全廢除這個軍事審判包括在戰時的時候呢要馬上恢復軍事審判那因為從那現在是戰時呢還是準戰爭狀態嗎還是即將進入戰爭狀態呢但是委員跟委員報告\n我們要做任何的一個完整的一個準備如果說今天按照現在這個狀況我們從102年廢除了軍事審判制度之後現在所有軍事審判的量能是完全喪失了\n那不管我們以後會面對什麼樣子的一個挑戰我們的軍事審判在喪失功能的情況之下要一夕之間要能夠恢復這是一件不可能的事情所以我們認為應該要在平時維持一定的量能所以我們將它限縮在陸海公軍所以你會不會認為當年你說絕對不允許復必因為當年也有可能任何的狀況\n也有可能進入戰時啊對不對也有可能能量不足啊而當時你的立場是絕對不允許軍法復辟那我現在要請教部長的是你說現在要做一個準備這個準備是準備進入戰時的一個狀態嗎因為你剛才講得非常清楚軍法\n法庭從來沒有審判並沒有被廢除但是非常明確的在暫時的時候要恢復軍閥審判所以這個準備是為了作戰而準備的嗎跟委員報告能不能讓我報告兩點就好了第一點任何國軍在做備戰的部分都是要來因應未來可能在台海地區發生的衝突我想這是國防部的義務\n這是也是光不存在的價值這是第一點我們第二個我們要恢復的軍事審判當然不是回到過去被人詬病的軍事審判我們要符合這一個政黨法律程序原則跟公平法院設計的\n一個新的軍事審判制度這樣的一個軍事審判制度是一個獨立的因為即便在102年的時候你去問當時的國防部長難道他不做作戰的準備嗎當時102年你去問當時的國防部長難道他說他完全不做作戰的準備嗎第二個你認為現在的軍事法庭一定不像以前的詬病的軍事法庭\n但是大家也知道 恢復軍事法庭之後 包含你還有檢察署吧 對不對所以我們現在 對不對 也就檢察署 還有檢院都在你國防部底下也有很多人會質疑 那這樣能不能夠完全的去保障司法人權所以我要講的就是說 時空環境變了 也許你換了位子 也換了腦袋\n但是我覺得從一個反走過必留下痕跡如果你現在的你的理由是正確的並不代表102年這些理由通通不存在我剛剛就講過嘛就是你在講說你要做作戰準備\n你五年前十年前所有的國防部長所有的一線的我們的這個關閉弟兄也都在做作戰的準備難道他們當時都是在睡覺嗎不可能所以我覺得現在要恢復軍事審判你們還是要跟社會大眾要有一定的溝通和對話而不是只是說我們現在就是變成是好像反正處處是共諜\n然後我們現役軍人 每個人可能都會泄密 每個人都會通敵我們要講的是在軍中的文化 其實我們最擔心的就是莫名其妙的入人於罪而採取了軍事法庭之後 而使得在他的司法人權沒有受到一定的尊重 最後造成冤獄\n所以我覺得這點是非常非常重要的所以當你講說所謂的重新開機的時候也請你要拜託你們要跟社會要有一定的對話那另外我時間到了但是我還是要特別提到就說在我可以先回答這個問題嗎\n你可以用書面 我不浪費大家時間我簡單回答 我們要設軍事懷孕組織法我們要設軍事檢查署組織法我們要設獨立的人事審議委員會這是在過去都沒有的那我們所要重新開機的一定會是跟過去所被人所詬病的軍事審判制度是不一樣那我們一定會重視這一個真實的發現跟這個軍機的維護的這個雙重的要求\n我希望我們在草案提出來以後我們也會跟社會做一個充分的溝通\n這是必須的那另外我花一點點時間就是我們的這個在我們的軍品裡面紅色供應鏈事實上是一直層出不窮不能一方面你在抗中然後動不動就丟人家是中共同路人但是在我們的軍事的相關的軍品裡面一而再再而三的發現紅色供應鏈的滲透\n這裡面像火箭推進劑的原料這個我也曾經質疑那是在部長擔任部長之前我也曾經質疑現在連戰鬥背心也有然後我們馬文君委員也提到了我們的無人機長期也去使用中國的這些零件這些部分請國防部應該提出相關的辦法而不是三不五時就會爆出來\n就要爆出來有這些相關的這些事件而我們會看到相關單位也沒有什麼懲處啊所以我們的委員才會一直會接到不同的懲請所以這個部分是不是請國防部也給我們一個就是書面的一個資料書面的說法\n針對要怎麼樣切斷紅色供應鏈避免紅色供應鏈滲透我們的軍品你們必須要有一個確切的一個做法包含怎麼樣去懲處 怎麼樣會去杜絕 可不可以\n簡單兩點 第一點 確定 確確的要防止這個飛鴻的供應鏈一定要在台灣的本土產生出自我的產能而且要將所有的關鍵零組件都在台灣製造我想這個才是根本之道第二個 我們很多事情都是在我們驗收的階段就發現\n而這些驗收階段發現之後我們就來排除所以結論就是說建立一個非紅的供應鏈的根本之道就是以無人機來講我們一定要在建立我們自主的產能這個在平時跟在暫時都是有需要的好 我請那個因為我們不要浪費大家時間如果可以的話就書面來提供我們資料好不好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.290 --> 00:02.739\n我請部長我請部長\n\n00:10.930 --> 00:11.911\n針對軍事審判的部分,你說要重新開機。過去大家也都提過,當年你是作為太陽花的律師的時候,你說絕對要不允許軍法來做復辟。\n\n00:32.142 --> 00:34.264\n那當然你現在又講說時空環境不一樣了等等之類那我想請問一下有關於就是不管是通敵或泄密或者是有共諜案現在都是在司法院法庭上去處理\n\n00:53.004 --> 01:16.642\n那請問一下在您認為說必須要重新開機第一個你是認為現在司法院審理這些相關的案件他們不夠專業還是不夠到位第二個您認為如果成立了這個軍法的法庭是真的可以去保障司法的人權嗎\n\n01:18.535 --> 01:35.130\n我想這個問題我之前已經回答多次了就是說現在軍審法並沒有完全廢除這個軍事審判包括在戰時的時候呢要馬上恢復軍事審判那因為從那現在是戰時呢還是準戰爭狀態嗎還是即將進入戰爭狀態呢但是委員跟委員報告\n\n01:42.136 --> 02:02.467\n我們要做任何的一個完整的一個準備如果說今天按照現在這個狀況我們從102年廢除了軍事審判制度之後現在所有軍事審判的量能是完全喪失了\n\n02:03.427 --> 02:24.578\n那不管我們以後會面對什麼樣子的一個挑戰我們的軍事審判在喪失功能的情況之下要一夕之間要能夠恢復這是一件不可能的事情所以我們認為應該要在平時維持一定的量能所以我們將它限縮在陸海公軍所以你會不會認為當年你說絕對不允許復必因為當年也有可能任何的狀況\n\n02:31.081 --> 02:35.025\n也有可能進入戰時啊對不對也有可能能量不足啊而當時你的立場是絕對不允許軍法復辟那我現在要請教部長的是你說現在要做一個準備這個準備是準備進入戰時的一個狀態嗎因為你剛才講得非常清楚軍法\n\n02:53.123 --> 03:17.782\n法庭從來沒有審判並沒有被廢除但是非常明確的在暫時的時候要恢復軍閥審判所以這個準備是為了作戰而準備的嗎跟委員報告能不能讓我報告兩點就好了第一點任何國軍在做備戰的部分都是要來因應未來可能在台海地區發生的衝突我想這是國防部的義務\n\n03:19.233 --> 03:34.479\n這是也是光不存在的價值這是第一點我們第二個我們要恢復的軍事審判當然不是回到過去被人詬病的軍事審判我們要符合這一個政黨法律程序原則跟公平法院設計的\n\n03:37.159 --> 03:42.581\n一個新的軍事審判制度這樣的一個軍事審判制度是一個獨立的因為即便在102年的時候你去問當時的國防部長難道他不做作戰的準備嗎當時102年你去問當時的國防部長難道他說他完全不做作戰的準備嗎第二個你認為現在的軍事法庭一定不像以前的詬病的軍事法庭\n\n04:01.348 --> 04:26.051\n但是大家也知道恢復軍事法庭之後包含你還有檢察署吧對不對所以我們現在對不對也就檢察署還有檢院都在你國防部底下也有很多人會質疑那這樣能不能夠完全的去保障司法人權所以我要講的就是說時空環境變了也許你換了位子也換了腦袋\n\n04:27.572 --> 04:40.370\n但是我覺得從一個反走過必留下痕跡如果你現在的你的理由是正確的並不代表102年這些理由通通不存在我剛剛就講過嘛就是你在講說你要做作戰準備\n\n04:44.255 --> 04:53.179\n你五年前十年前所有的國防部長所有的一線的我們的這個關閉弟兄也都在做作戰的準備難道他們當時都是在睡覺嗎不可能所以我覺得現在要恢復軍事審判你們還是要跟社會大眾要有一定的溝通和對話而不是只是說我們現在就是變成是好像反正處處是共諜\n\n05:10.126 --> 05:16.251\n然後我們現役軍人每個人可能都會泄密每個人都會通敵我們要講的是在軍中的文化其實我們最擔心的就是莫名其妙的入人於罪而採取了軍事法庭之後而使得在他的司法人權沒有受到一定的尊重最後造成冤獄\n\n05:34.986 --> 05:39.872\n所以我覺得這點是非常非常重要的所以當你講說所謂的重新開機的時候也請你要拜託你們要跟社會要有一定的對話那另外我時間到了但是我還是要特別提到就說在我可以先回答這個問題嗎\n\n05:53.570 --> 06:14.263\n你可以用書面我不浪費大家時間我簡單回答我們要設軍事懷孕組織法我們要設軍事檢查署組織法我們要設獨立的人事審議委員會這是在過去都沒有的那我們所要重新開機的一定會是跟過去所被人所詬病的軍事審判制度是不一樣那我們一定會重視這一個真實的發現跟這個軍機的維護的這個雙重的要求\n\n06:19.868 --> 06:25.785\n我希望我們在草案提出來以後我們也會跟社會做一個充分的溝通\n\n06:26.912 --> 06:33.137\n這是必須的那另外我花一點點時間就是我們的這個在我們的軍品裡面紅色供應鏈事實上是一直層出不窮不能一方面你在抗中然後動不動就丟人家是中共同路人但是在我們的軍事的相關的軍品裡面一而再再而三的發現紅色供應鏈的滲透\n\n06:56.254 --> 07:01.899\n這裡面像火箭推進劑的原料這個我也曾經質疑那是在部長擔任部長之前我也曾經質疑現在連戰鬥背心也有然後我們馬文君委員也提到了我們的無人機長期也去使用中國的這些零件這些部分請國防部應該提出相關的辦法而不是三不五時就會爆出來\n\n07:23.897 --> 07:27.238\n就要爆出來有這些相關的這些事件而我們會看到相關單位也沒有什麼懲處啊所以我們的委員才會一直會接到不同的懲請所以這個部分是不是請國防部也給我們一個就是書面的一個資料書面的說法\n\n07:45.486 --> 07:47.087\n針對要怎麼樣切斷紅色供應鏈避免紅色供應鏈滲透我們的軍品你們必須要有一個確切的一個做法包含怎麼樣去懲處怎麼樣會去杜絕可不可以\n\n08:04.403 --> 08:24.557\n簡單兩點第一點確定確確的要防止這個飛鴻的供應鏈一定要在台灣的本土產生出自我的產能而且要將所有的關鍵零組件都在台灣製造我想這個才是根本之道第二個我們很多事情都是在我們驗收的階段就發現\n\n08:25.638 --> 08:51.153\n而這些驗收階段發現之後我們就來排除所以結論就是說建立一個非紅的供應鏈的根本之道就是以無人機來講我們一定要在建立我們自主的產能這個在平時跟在暫時都是有需要的好我請那個因為我們不要浪費大家時間如果可以的話就書面來提供我們資料好不好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.29,"end":2.739,"text":"我請部長我請部長"},{"start":10.93,"end":11.911,"text":"針對軍事審判的部分,你說要重新開機。過去大家也都提過,當年你是作為太陽花的律師的時候,你說絕對要不允許軍法來做復辟。"},{"start":32.142,"end":34.264,"text":"那當然你現在又講說時空環境不一樣了等等之類那我想請問一下有關於就是不管是通敵或泄密或者是有共諜案現在都是在司法院法庭上去處理"},{"start":53.004,"end":76.642,"text":"那請問一下在您認為說必須要重新開機第一個你是認為現在司法院審理這些相關的案件他們不夠專業還是不夠到位第二個您認為如果成立了這個軍法的法庭是真的可以去保障司法的人權嗎"},{"start":78.535,"end":95.13,"text":"我想這個問題我之前已經回答多次了就是說現在軍審法並沒有完全廢除這個軍事審判包括在戰時的時候呢要馬上恢復軍事審判那因為從那現在是戰時呢還是準戰爭狀態嗎還是即將進入戰爭狀態呢但是委員跟委員報告"},{"start":102.136,"end":122.467,"text":"我們要做任何的一個完整的一個準備如果說今天按照現在這個狀況我們從102年廢除了軍事審判制度之後現在所有軍事審判的量能是完全喪失了"},{"start":123.427,"end":144.578,"text":"那不管我們以後會面對什麼樣子的一個挑戰我們的軍事審判在喪失功能的情況之下要一夕之間要能夠恢復這是一件不可能的事情所以我們認為應該要在平時維持一定的量能所以我們將它限縮在陸海公軍所以你會不會認為當年你說絕對不允許復必因為當年也有可能任何的狀況"},{"start":151.081,"end":155.025,"text":"也有可能進入戰時啊對不對也有可能能量不足啊而當時你的立場是絕對不允許軍法復辟那我現在要請教部長的是你說現在要做一個準備這個準備是準備進入戰時的一個狀態嗎因為你剛才講得非常清楚軍法"},{"start":173.123,"end":197.782,"text":"法庭從來沒有審判並沒有被廢除但是非常明確的在暫時的時候要恢復軍閥審判所以這個準備是為了作戰而準備的嗎跟委員報告能不能讓我報告兩點就好了第一點任何國軍在做備戰的部分都是要來因應未來可能在台海地區發生的衝突我想這是國防部的義務"},{"start":199.233,"end":214.479,"text":"這是也是光不存在的價值這是第一點我們第二個我們要恢復的軍事審判當然不是回到過去被人詬病的軍事審判我們要符合這一個政黨法律程序原則跟公平法院設計的"},{"start":217.159,"end":222.581,"text":"一個新的軍事審判制度這樣的一個軍事審判制度是一個獨立的因為即便在102年的時候你去問當時的國防部長難道他不做作戰的準備嗎當時102年你去問當時的國防部長難道他說他完全不做作戰的準備嗎第二個你認為現在的軍事法庭一定不像以前的詬病的軍事法庭"},{"start":241.348,"end":266.051,"text":"但是大家也知道 恢復軍事法庭之後 包含你還有檢察署吧 對不對所以我們現在 對不對 也就檢察署 還有檢院都在你國防部底下也有很多人會質疑 那這樣能不能夠完全的去保障司法人權所以我要講的就是說 時空環境變了 也許你換了位子 也換了腦袋"},{"start":267.572,"end":280.37,"text":"但是我覺得從一個反走過必留下痕跡如果你現在的你的理由是正確的並不代表102年這些理由通通不存在我剛剛就講過嘛就是你在講說你要做作戰準備"},{"start":284.255,"end":293.179,"text":"你五年前十年前所有的國防部長所有的一線的我們的這個關閉弟兄也都在做作戰的準備難道他們當時都是在睡覺嗎不可能所以我覺得現在要恢復軍事審判你們還是要跟社會大眾要有一定的溝通和對話而不是只是說我們現在就是變成是好像反正處處是共諜"},{"start":310.126,"end":316.251,"text":"然後我們現役軍人 每個人可能都會泄密 每個人都會通敵我們要講的是在軍中的文化 其實我們最擔心的就是莫名其妙的入人於罪而採取了軍事法庭之後 而使得在他的司法人權沒有受到一定的尊重 最後造成冤獄"},{"start":334.986,"end":339.872,"text":"所以我覺得這點是非常非常重要的所以當你講說所謂的重新開機的時候也請你要拜託你們要跟社會要有一定的對話那另外我時間到了但是我還是要特別提到就說在我可以先回答這個問題嗎"},{"start":353.57,"end":374.263,"text":"你可以用書面 我不浪費大家時間我簡單回答 我們要設軍事懷孕組織法我們要設軍事檢查署組織法我們要設獨立的人事審議委員會這是在過去都沒有的那我們所要重新開機的一定會是跟過去所被人所詬病的軍事審判制度是不一樣那我們一定會重視這一個真實的發現跟這個軍機的維護的這個雙重的要求"},{"start":379.868,"end":385.785,"text":"我希望我們在草案提出來以後我們也會跟社會做一個充分的溝通"},{"start":386.912,"end":393.137,"text":"這是必須的那另外我花一點點時間就是我們的這個在我們的軍品裡面紅色供應鏈事實上是一直層出不窮不能一方面你在抗中然後動不動就丟人家是中共同路人但是在我們的軍事的相關的軍品裡面一而再再而三的發現紅色供應鏈的滲透"},{"start":416.254,"end":421.899,"text":"這裡面像火箭推進劑的原料這個我也曾經質疑那是在部長擔任部長之前我也曾經質疑現在連戰鬥背心也有然後我們馬文君委員也提到了我們的無人機長期也去使用中國的這些零件這些部分請國防部應該提出相關的辦法而不是三不五時就會爆出來"},{"start":443.897,"end":447.238,"text":"就要爆出來有這些相關的這些事件而我們會看到相關單位也沒有什麼懲處啊所以我們的委員才會一直會接到不同的懲請所以這個部分是不是請國防部也給我們一個就是書面的一個資料書面的說法"},{"start":465.486,"end":467.087,"text":"針對要怎麼樣切斷紅色供應鏈避免紅色供應鏈滲透我們的軍品你們必須要有一個確切的一個做法包含怎麼樣去懲處 怎麼樣會去杜絕 可不可以"},{"start":484.403,"end":504.557,"text":"簡單兩點 第一點 確定 確確的要防止這個飛鴻的供應鏈一定要在台灣的本土產生出自我的產能而且要將所有的關鍵零組件都在台灣製造我想這個才是根本之道第二個 我們很多事情都是在我們驗收的階段就發現"},{"start":505.638,"end":531.153,"text":"而這些驗收階段發現之後我們就來排除所以結論就是說建立一個非紅的供應鏈的根本之道就是以無人機來講我們一定要在建立我們自主的產能這個在平時跟在暫時都是有需要的好 我請那個因為我們不要浪費大家時間如果可以的話就書面來提供我們資料好不好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":435,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時54分）謝謝主席，我請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["顧部長立雄：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，針對軍事審判，你說要reset，就是重新開機，其實過去大家也都提過，當年您作為太陽花的律師時，你說絕對不允許軍法復辟，當然你現在又講說「哎呀！時空環境不一樣了」等等之類的，那我想請問一下，不管是通敵、洩密或共諜案，現在都是在司法院的法庭上去做處理，您認為必須要重新開機，請問一下，第一、你是認為現在司法院審理這些相關案件，他們不夠專業還是不夠到位？第二、您認為如果成立了軍法法庭，是真的可以保障司法的人權嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：這個問題我之前已經回答很多次了，就是現在軍審法並沒有完全廢除軍事審判，包括在戰時要馬上恢復軍事審判，因為從……"],["王委員鴻薇：那現在是戰時，還是準戰爭狀態，還是即將進入戰爭狀態呢？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我們要做完整的準備，按照現在這個狀況，我們從102年廢除了軍事審判制度之後，現在所有軍事審判的量能是完全喪失了，不管我們以後會面對什麼樣的挑戰，我們的軍事審判在喪失功能的情況之下，要一夕之間能夠回復，這是一件不可能的事情，所以我們認為應該要在平時維持一定的量能，所以我們將它限縮在陸海空軍刑法第二編相關的……"],["王委員鴻薇：當年您說絕對不允許復辟，但當年也有可能進入戰時，也有可能量能不足啊！而當時你的立場是絕對不允許軍法復辟。我現在要請教部長的是，你說現在在做一個準備，這個準備是準備進入戰時的一個狀態嗎？因為你剛剛也講得非常清楚……"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有說……"],["王委員鴻薇：軍法審判並沒有被廢除，但是非常明確的是，在戰時要恢復軍法審判，所以這個準備是為了作戰而準備的嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：委員，能不能讓我報告兩點就好了？第一點，任何國軍在做備戰的部分，都是要因應未來可能在臺海地區發生的衝突，我想這是國防部的義務，這也是國防部存在的價值，這是第一點。第二點，我們要恢復的軍事審判，當然不是回到過去被人詬病的軍事審判，我們要符合正當法律程序原則跟公民法院設計的一個新的軍事審判制度。這樣一個軍事審判制度……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，部長，我剛剛給你回答，不過你也充滿了詭辯。"],["顧部長立雄：是一個獨立的……"],["王委員鴻薇：因為即便在102年的時候……"],["顧部長立雄：報告委員，我不認為我在詭辯。"],["王委員鴻薇：你去問當時的國防部長，難道他不做作戰準備嗎？當時102年，你去問當時的國防部長，難道他說他完全不做作戰的準備嗎？第二個，你認為現在的軍事法庭一定不像以前詬病的軍事法庭，但是大家也知道恢復軍事法庭之後，包含還要有檢察署吧，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：所以我們現在……"],["王委員鴻薇：檢、院都在你國防部底下，也有很多人會質疑，這樣能不能夠完全去保障司法人權？所以我要講的就是時空環境變了，也許你換了位置，也換了腦袋，但是我覺得凡走過必留下痕跡，如果現在你的理由是正確的，並不代表102年這些理由通通不存在，我剛剛就講過，就是你在講你要做作戰準備，五年前、十年前所有的國防部長、所有的一線官兵弟兄也都在做作戰的準備，難道他們當時都只在睡覺嗎？不可能！所以我覺得現在要恢復軍事審判，你們還是要跟社會大眾有一定的溝通和對話，而不只是說現在好像變成處處是共諜、現役軍人每個人可能都會洩密、每個人可能都會通敵。我要講的是在軍中的文化，其實我們最擔心的就是莫名其妙的入人於罪，在採取了軍事法庭之後使得他的司法人權沒有受到一定的尊重，最後造成冤獄，所以我覺得這點是非常非常重要的，所以當你說要所謂重新開機的時候，也請你、拜託你們，要跟社會要有一定的對話。","另外，我時間到了，但是我還是要特別提到，就是……"],["顧部長立雄：委員，我可以先回答這個問題嗎？"],["王委員鴻薇：你可以用書面，我不浪費大家時間。"],["顧部長立雄：我簡單回答。"],["王委員鴻薇：好。"],["顧部長立雄：我們要設軍事法院組織法，我們要設軍事檢察署組織法，我們要設獨立的人事審議委員會，這是在過去都沒有的，我們所要重新開機的，一定跟過去被人所詬病的軍事審判制度是不一樣的，我們一定會重視真實發現跟軍紀維護的雙重要求，在草案提出來以後，我們也會跟社會充分溝通。"],["王委員鴻薇：這是必須的。另外，我再花一點點時間，就是軍品的紅色供應鏈滲透事實上一直層出不窮，不能一方面你在抗中，動不動就說人家是中共同路人，但是在軍事相關的軍品裡面，一而再、再而三的發現紅色供應鏈滲透，這裡面像是火箭推進劑的原料，在你擔任部長之前，我也曾經提出過質疑；現在連戰鬥背心也有了，然後馬文君委員也提到，我們的無人機也長期使用中國的這些零件，這些部分請國防部應該提出相關的辦法，而不是三不五時就會爆出來有這些相關的事件，而且我們看到相關單位也沒有什麼懲處，所以委員才會一直接到不同的陳情，就這個部分是不是請國防部也給我們一個書面的資料、說法？針對要怎麼樣切斷紅色供應鏈，避免紅色供應鏈滲透我們的軍品，你們必須要有一個確切的作法，包含怎麼樣去懲處、怎麼樣去杜絕，可不可以？"],["顧部長立雄：簡單兩點，第一點，確切的要防止，要非紅的供應鏈，一定要在臺灣的本土產生出自我的產能，而且要將所有的關鍵零組件都在臺灣製造，我想這個才是根本之道；第二個，很多事情都是在我們驗收的階段就發現，在這些驗收階段發現之後，我們就來排除，所以結論就是，建立一個非紅供應鏈的根本之道，以無人機來講，我們一定要再建立自主的產能，這個在平時跟在戰時都是有需要的。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，我就不浪費大家時間，如果可以的話，請書面提供我們資料，好不好？謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員，部長請回。","接下來有請馬文君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-17","speakers":["沈伯洋","羅美玲","陳俊宇","黃仁","王定宇","徐巧芯","林楚茵","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","馬文君","陳冠廷","林憶君","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-26"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國防部主管預算凍結案等120案","agenda_id":"1145401_00001"}}}