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\"給\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 671.681, \"end\": 671.741, \"score\": 0.628}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 671.741, \"end\": 671.922, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 671.922, \"end\": 672.482, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 672.482, \"end\": 673.043, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 673.043, \"end\": 673.063, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,209 --> 00:00:01,430\n今天我們大概有非常多的委員在討論不過面相不太一樣我們現在還是針對我們國防部的解凍案\n\n2\n00:00:25,622 --> 00:00:29,786\n在討論可是我想要特別提出一個案例我想部長可以考量看看為什麼我們常常在指責委員在煽動預算的時候是黨國防預算可是我們卻讓一樣的事情不斷不斷每年在預算執行的過程當中不斷的發生而且耗費浪費我們非常多的一個國防資源我們看軍博館\n\n3\n00:00:53,465 --> 00:01:03,555\n軍博物館這個部分從原來他本來是要蓋軍事博物館還有國軍英雄館兩個那時候編列預算大概有17億餘元這個預計在110年到112年就要完成的後來國軍英雄館因為他訴訟的關係後來沒有去\n\n4\n00:01:18,809 --> 00:01:24,932\n增加就是要增建這個部分就只有軍博館軍博館從17億餘元變成32億餘元後來又增加到46億2現在又變成54億到現在本來112年要完成的\n\n5\n00:01:36,877 --> 00:01:51,764\n到現在已經114年了他還沒有辦法完成而且他的過程非常離譜今天這樣的一個建築物老實說他跟很多的博物館或者包括像奇美博物館民間的還包括像台中的這個台中這個叫\n\n6\n00:01:55,646 --> 00:02:05,129\n是歌劇院其實他們都是非常特殊的甚至他的建築體本身其實也不太一樣可是他們的造價而且他們的騎乘都非常的順暢可是我們的軍博館剛剛我提到的從17億多到現在變成54億54億多已經增加了三倍到現在還做不好\n\n7\n00:02:19,053 --> 00:02:25,918\n部長,您知道這是什麼原因嗎?而且更離譜的是在111年的時候,這個機裝承載能力不足,要補強然後在第二次113年,也就是去年1月的時候,它的結構設計強度不足\n\n8\n00:02:38,925 --> 00:02:59,685\n然後在去年8月又發生維木牆、抗風樑柱要補牆這三個變更是國防部甲方要求的嗎部長有掌握這個嗎我想我現在手上沒有相關的這個詳細的資料那我想我會後再跟委員做個報告\n\n9\n00:03:00,677 --> 00:03:03,178\n部長我想在這裡談因為這個部分我們從好幾年前我們就已經提出來了這個部分比較離譜的像它第一次變更的時候機裝承載力不足它是什麼狀況廠商蓋到二樓的時候才發現它的樓地板如果放上去因為它下面的柱子太少\n\n10\n00:03:21,209 --> 00:03:38,101\n他沒有辦法承載所以二樓樓地板如果蓋了以後他沒有辦法放東西我們這個叫軍博館他二樓如果按照這樣的一個設計他沒有辦法放東西所以我們追加了大概一千三百多萬然後讓他展延三十天然後第二次在去年他的又變更設計一次他是怎麼樣牆面太大\n\n11\n00:03:49,485 --> 00:04:06,073\n它的支撐力不足所以要補強剛構同時在去年第三次的變更維木牆抗風樑柱補強就是頂樓的玻璃維木它的抗風能力不足又做了樑柱補強部長您剛剛有聽到我說明的這三次補強的原因這是什麼專管公司這是什麼設計單位\n\n12\n00:04:16,874 --> 00:04:21,116\n他們現在總共追加了大概又8000多萬我們從剛剛我念的17億還有32億46億到後來54億現在又8000萬而且他展延天數大概300多天幾乎又要一年部長您怎麼看\n\n13\n00:04:36,023 --> 00:04:54,831\n我的瞭解是有一部分是行政院認為我們原來的這個因為軍火管的設置不易所以要求我們這個整個量體要增加因此教育不好,你要不要說明一下\n\n14\n00:04:57,748 --> 00:05:16,266\n委員好我是志願司司長那之前因為我是在政務辦公室副主任所以對這個案子稍微有點了解一開始17億的那個部分是因為那時候我們設計的大概是兩層樓高這樣一個建築量體那後來在行政院開會的時候行政院覺得在這個地段做這樣子的設計效益不足所以請我們再重新考量\n\n15\n00:05:16,966 --> 00:05:30,820\n所以後來我們到加到了七層樓所以有一個會有一個這樣經費的一個增加而且後來因為是疫情的關係那所以我們幾次的一個招標都沒有很順利那後來也是行政院工程會把當初那時候所有行政院的重大工程\n\n16\n00:05:32,421 --> 00:05:35,842\n那個金額的調整那個已經有討論過我現在說的是你三次的變更不會太離譜嗎我們在過去沒有專管公司的時候甚至你怎麼會設計到你的樑柱的支撐力不足你明明蓋到七樓然後它的那個二樓的樓地板蓋下去整個會塌下來這是什麼設計結果你的罰則是多少我們在第一次它的那個\n\n17\n00:05:59,352 --> 00:06:10,415\n集裝承載能力不足要補強的時候我們追加一千三百萬可是他計罰的金額是七十七萬七千元第二次又做結構補強的時候他總共追加一千六百萬展延的天數一百一十六天他罰了兩百二十七萬第三次又做了變更設計因為他的玻璃帷幕太重他沒有辦法承載\n\n18\n00:06:28,820 --> 00:06:32,022\n所以我們又追加了5,446萬展延天數172天可是它只罰了專管6萬塊在我們又追加了8千萬的情況之下而且展延了300多天我們對這個相關的不管設計單位專管單位總共罰了300多萬可是我們又追加了8千多萬\n\n19\n00:06:51,415 --> 00:07:15,113\n國防部完全任人宰割從我們剛開始說的你設計到七層樓的時候你即時面臨到疫情民間沒有蓋房子嗎我們所有的公共工廠沒有在做嗎可是你可以不斷不斷的增加你是增加倍數耶我們的原物料增加的或者人工的增加其實它都是有一些相關的資料\n\n20\n00:07:18,018 --> 00:07:34,183\n都是幾成幾成在增加可是你是倍數在增加你現在部長您是法律的專家像這樣子的計法我們是可以的嗎而且這麼剛好他計法的金額就剛好是我們的務酬款八千萬你就剛好把務酬款八千萬也剛好把它用光了\n\n21\n00:07:39,384 --> 00:07:53,605\n這就是他增加的部分這個到底是營造商跟我們的專管公司設計單位他們協調的結果還是合作的結果他們只被罰了三百多萬可是他增加八千多萬這個問題出在哪裡\n\n22\n00:07:59,165 --> 00:08:21,040\n報告委員其實每次的變更設計在設計建造的部分還有專管的部分我們的確都有計法那因為計法收限於百分之二十的上限所以它那個金額的確可能很難達到一個預期那這個部分其實我們每個月或是每兩週每週我們都有人在現場跟他們開會也希望能夠補強這個部分\n\n23\n00:08:22,421 --> 00:08:30,895\n但如果將來對國防部的確造成了很多實質上的損失其實我們也不排除最後工程完成以後還有一個求償的一個措施這不是笑話嗎\n\n24\n00:08:32,352 --> 00:08:55,333\n部長今天他已經連續三次的變更設計我說他不斷不斷的加價以外他現在要把我們的務酬款剛好八千萬他就剛好設計也是增加八千萬這個部分請調查清楚而且不要任意解凍今天如果可以從十七億多一直增加到五十四億現在又要再增加八千萬\n\n25\n00:08:56,514 --> 00:09:03,756\n你的那個承載力不足柱子不夠我們本來設計呢那時候到我們去看的時候說哇這是挑高的然後我們上面要像那個有一些大家看過那個自然博物館上面掛恐龍骨骼的那個部分他要把我們本來現在放在外面的飛機要掛到那個上面現在能掛嗎\n\n26\n00:09:17,299 --> 00:09:23,285\n光是二樓樓地板放上去都會垮下來你還敢掛這樣這麼重的飛機嗎那時候跟我們說你為什麼要挑高因為看起來會比較紅尾而且它可以四面都沒有那麼多的柱子它的空間很大結果你現在因為承載力不足你增加了很多的柱子那現在它變成什麼樣子\n\n27\n00:09:41,361 --> 00:09:45,862\n這個部分我們要求國防部一定要徹查尤其這個部分我們對廠商完全沒有沒有辦法去計法以外總共罰300萬可是我們讓他不斷不斷的增加這麼高的預算而且我們用的很多的一大部分的錢是基金基金是用了就沒了結果你讓他這樣子把錢花掉部長這個部分你們會有什麼樣的一個做法\n\n28\n00:10:09,323 --> 00:10:27,130\n我想我會下去之後我會進行一個徹底的了解好不好好這個部分我們要求要有一個做法然後不要再把那個解凍案送出來你如果沒有一個解決的方案之前浪費民脂民膏然後還可以一直叫我們解凍這樣完全沒有辦法對國人交代\n\n29\n00:10:30,231 --> 00:10:48,726\n那今天也有委員在詢問我們國防部所屬院校今年招生的狀況女生的錄取率增高非常多那本席請國防部提供近八年國軍各基礎院校各年度招生數錄取數以及醫生二後他的留營數\n\n30\n00:10:50,424 --> 00:11:13,063\n就是你除了這些錄取人數以外一年級升二年級以後他留下來繼續念的到底有多少人數包括三軍我們的三軍的一個三軍院校國防大學各學院還有空軍航院技術學院陸軍專科學校等等請提供相關的數據資料給委員會好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n209\t1430\t今天我們大概有非常多的委員在討論不過面相不太一樣我們現在還是針對我們國防部的解凍案\n25622\t29786\t在討論可是我想要特別提出一個案例我想部長可以考量看看為什麼我們常常在指責委員在煽動預算的時候是黨國防預算可是我們卻讓一樣的事情不斷不斷每年在預算執行的過程當中不斷的發生而且耗費浪費我們非常多的一個國防資源我們看軍博館\n53465\t63555\t軍博物館這個部分從原來他本來是要蓋軍事博物館還有國軍英雄館兩個那時候編列預算大概有17億餘元這個預計在110年到112年就要完成的後來國軍英雄館因為他訴訟的關係後來沒有去\n78809\t84932\t增加就是要增建這個部分就只有軍博館軍博館從17億餘元變成32億餘元後來又增加到46億2現在又變成54億到現在本來112年要完成的\n96877\t111764\t到現在已經114年了他還沒有辦法完成而且他的過程非常離譜今天這樣的一個建築物老實說他跟很多的博物館或者包括像奇美博物館民間的還包括像台中的這個台中這個叫\n115646\t125129\t是歌劇院 其實他們都是非常特殊的甚至他的建築體本身其實也不太一樣可是他們的造價 而且他們的騎乘都非常的順暢可是我們的軍博館 剛剛我提到的從17億多到現在變成54億54億多已經增加了三倍 到現在還做不好\n139053\t145918\t部長,您知道這是什麼原因嗎?而且更離譜的是在111年的時候,這個機裝承載能力不足,要補強然後在第二次113年,也就是去年1月的時候,它的結構設計強度不足\n158925\t179685\t然後在去年8月又發生維木牆、抗風樑柱要補牆這三個變更是國防部甲方要求的嗎部長有掌握這個嗎我想我現在手上沒有相關的這個詳細的資料那我想我會後再跟委員做個報告\n180677\t183178\t部長我想在這裡談因為這個部分我們從好幾年前我們就已經提出來了這個部分比較離譜的像它第一次變更的時候機裝承載力不足它是什麼狀況廠商蓋到二樓的時候才發現它的樓地板如果放上去因為它下面的柱子太少\n201209\t218101\t他沒有辦法承載所以二樓樓地板如果蓋了以後他沒有辦法放東西我們這個叫軍博館他二樓如果按照這樣的一個設計他沒有辦法放東西所以我們追加了大概一千三百多萬然後讓他展延三十天然後第二次在去年他的又變更設計一次他是怎麼樣牆面太大\n229485\t246073\t它的支撐力不足 所以要補強剛構同時在去年第三次的變更維木牆抗風 樑柱補強就是頂樓的玻璃維木 它的抗風能力不足又做了樑柱補強部長您剛剛有聽到我說明的這三次補強的原因這是什麼專管公司 這是什麼設計單位\n256874\t261116\t他們現在總共追加了大概又8000多萬我們從剛剛我念的17億還有32億46億到後來54億現在又8000萬而且他展延天數大概300多天幾乎又要一年部長您怎麼看\n276023\t294831\t我的瞭解是有一部分是行政院認為我們原來的這個因為軍火管的設置不易所以要求我們這個整個量體要增加因此教育不好,你要不要說明一下\n297748\t316266\t委員好我是志願司司長那之前因為我是在政務辦公室副主任所以對這個案子稍微有點了解一開始17億的那個部分是因為那時候我們設計的大概是兩層樓高這樣一個建築量體那後來在行政院開會的時候行政院覺得在這個地段做這樣子的設計效益不足所以請我們再重新考量\n316966\t330820\t所以後來我們到加到了七層樓所以有一個會有一個這樣經費的一個增加而且後來因為是疫情的關係那所以我們幾次的一個招標都沒有很順利那後來也是行政院工程會把當初那時候所有行政院的重大工程\n332421\t335842\t那個金額的調整那個已經有討論過我現在說的是你三次的變更不會太離譜嗎我們在過去沒有專管公司的時候甚至你怎麼會設計到你的樑柱的支撐力不足你明明蓋到七樓然後它的那個二樓的樓地板蓋下去整個會塌下來這是什麼設計結果你的罰則是多少我們在第一次它的那個\n359352\t370415\t集裝承載能力不足要補強的時候我們追加一千三百萬可是他計罰的金額是七十七萬七千元第二次又做結構補強的時候他總共追加一千六百萬展延的天數一百一十六天他罰了兩百二十七萬第三次又做了變更設計因為他的玻璃帷幕太重他沒有辦法承載\n388820\t392022\t所以我們又追加了5,446萬 展延天數172天 可是它只罰了專管6萬塊在我們又追加了8千萬的情況之下 而且展延了300多天我們對這個相關的 不管設計單位 專管單位 總共罰了300多萬可是我們又追加了8千多萬\n411415\t435113\t國防部完全任人宰割 從我們剛開始說的你設計到七層樓的時候 你即時面臨到疫情民間沒有蓋房子嗎 我們所有的公共工廠沒有在做嗎可是你可以不斷不斷的增加 你是增加倍數耶我們的原物料增加的 或者人工的增加其實它都是有一些相關的資料\n438018\t454183\t都是幾成幾成在增加 可是你是倍數在增加你現在 部長您是法律的專家像這樣子的計法 我們是可以的嗎而且這麼剛好 他計法的金額就剛好是我們的務酬款八千萬你就剛好把務酬款八千萬 也剛好把它用光了\n459384\t473605\t這就是他增加的部分這個到底是營造商跟我們的專管公司設計單位他們協調的結果還是合作的結果他們只被罰了三百多萬可是他增加八千多萬這個問題出在哪裡\n479165\t501040\t報告委員其實每次的變更設計在設計建造的部分還有專管的部分我們的確都有計法那因為計法收限於百分之二十的上限所以它那個金額的確可能很難達到一個預期那這個部分其實我們每個月或是每兩週每週我們都有人在現場跟他們開會也希望能夠補強這個部分\n502421\t510895\t但如果將來對國防部的確造成了很多實質上的損失其實我們也不排除最後工程完成以後還有一個求償的一個措施這不是笑話嗎\n512352\t535333\t部長 今天他已經連續三次的變更設計我說他不斷不斷的加價以外 他現在要把我們的務酬款剛好八千萬他就剛好設計也是增加八千萬這個部分請調查清楚 而且不要任意解凍今天如果可以從十七億多 一直增加到五十四億現在又要再增加八千萬\n536514\t543756\t你的那個承載力不足 柱子不夠我們本來設計呢 那時候到我們去看的時候說 哇 這是挑高的然後我們上面要像那個 有一些大家看過那個自然博物館上面掛恐龍骨骼的那個部分他要把我們本來現在放在外面的飛機要掛到那個上面 現在能掛嗎\n557299\t563285\t光是二樓樓地板放上去都會垮下來你還敢掛這樣這麼重的飛機嗎那時候跟我們說你為什麼要挑高因為看起來會比較紅尾而且它可以四面都沒有那麼多的柱子它的空間很大結果你現在因為承載力不足你增加了很多的柱子那現在它變成什麼樣子\n581361\t585862\t這個部分我們要求國防部一定要徹查尤其這個部分我們對廠商完全沒有沒有辦法去計法以外總共罰300萬可是我們讓他不斷不斷的增加這麼高的預算而且我們用的很多的一大部分的錢是基金基金是用了就沒了結果你讓他這樣子把錢花掉部長這個部分你們會有什麼樣的一個做法\n609323\t627130\t我想我會下去之後我會進行一個徹底的了解好不好好這個部分我們要求要有一個做法然後不要再把那個解凍案送出來你如果沒有一個解決的方案之前浪費民脂民膏然後還可以一直叫我們解凍這樣完全沒有辦法對國人交代\n630231\t648726\t那今天也有委員在詢問我們國防部所屬院校今年招生的狀況女生的錄取率增高非常多那本席請國防部提供近八年國軍各基礎院校各年度招生數錄取數以及醫生二後他的留營數\n650424\t673063\t就是你除了這些錄取人數以外一年級升二年級以後他留下來繼續念的到底有多少人數包括三軍我們的三軍的一個三軍院校國防大學各學院還有空軍航院技術學院陸軍專科學校等等請提供相關的數據資料給委員會好不好好謝謝\n","txt":"今天我們大概有非常多的委員在討論不過面相不太一樣我們現在還是針對我們國防部的解凍案\n在討論可是我想要特別提出一個案例我想部長可以考量看看為什麼我們常常在指責委員在煽動預算的時候是黨國防預算可是我們卻讓一樣的事情不斷不斷每年在預算執行的過程當中不斷的發生而且耗費浪費我們非常多的一個國防資源我們看軍博館\n軍博物館這個部分從原來他本來是要蓋軍事博物館還有國軍英雄館兩個那時候編列預算大概有17億餘元這個預計在110年到112年就要完成的後來國軍英雄館因為他訴訟的關係後來沒有去\n增加就是要增建這個部分就只有軍博館軍博館從17億餘元變成32億餘元後來又增加到46億2現在又變成54億到現在本來112年要完成的\n到現在已經114年了他還沒有辦法完成而且他的過程非常離譜今天這樣的一個建築物老實說他跟很多的博物館或者包括像奇美博物館民間的還包括像台中的這個台中這個叫\n是歌劇院 其實他們都是非常特殊的甚至他的建築體本身其實也不太一樣可是他們的造價 而且他們的騎乘都非常的順暢可是我們的軍博館 剛剛我提到的從17億多到現在變成54億54億多已經增加了三倍 到現在還做不好\n部長,您知道這是什麼原因嗎?而且更離譜的是在111年的時候,這個機裝承載能力不足,要補強然後在第二次113年,也就是去年1月的時候,它的結構設計強度不足\n然後在去年8月又發生維木牆、抗風樑柱要補牆這三個變更是國防部甲方要求的嗎部長有掌握這個嗎我想我現在手上沒有相關的這個詳細的資料那我想我會後再跟委員做個報告\n部長我想在這裡談因為這個部分我們從好幾年前我們就已經提出來了這個部分比較離譜的像它第一次變更的時候機裝承載力不足它是什麼狀況廠商蓋到二樓的時候才發現它的樓地板如果放上去因為它下面的柱子太少\n他沒有辦法承載所以二樓樓地板如果蓋了以後他沒有辦法放東西我們這個叫軍博館他二樓如果按照這樣的一個設計他沒有辦法放東西所以我們追加了大概一千三百多萬然後讓他展延三十天然後第二次在去年他的又變更設計一次他是怎麼樣牆面太大\n它的支撐力不足 所以要補強剛構同時在去年第三次的變更維木牆抗風 樑柱補強就是頂樓的玻璃維木 它的抗風能力不足又做了樑柱補強部長您剛剛有聽到我說明的這三次補強的原因這是什麼專管公司 這是什麼設計單位\n他們現在總共追加了大概又8000多萬我們從剛剛我念的17億還有32億46億到後來54億現在又8000萬而且他展延天數大概300多天幾乎又要一年部長您怎麼看\n我的瞭解是有一部分是行政院認為我們原來的這個因為軍火管的設置不易所以要求我們這個整個量體要增加因此教育不好,你要不要說明一下\n委員好我是志願司司長那之前因為我是在政務辦公室副主任所以對這個案子稍微有點了解一開始17億的那個部分是因為那時候我們設計的大概是兩層樓高這樣一個建築量體那後來在行政院開會的時候行政院覺得在這個地段做這樣子的設計效益不足所以請我們再重新考量\n所以後來我們到加到了七層樓所以有一個會有一個這樣經費的一個增加而且後來因為是疫情的關係那所以我們幾次的一個招標都沒有很順利那後來也是行政院工程會把當初那時候所有行政院的重大工程\n那個金額的調整那個已經有討論過我現在說的是你三次的變更不會太離譜嗎我們在過去沒有專管公司的時候甚至你怎麼會設計到你的樑柱的支撐力不足你明明蓋到七樓然後它的那個二樓的樓地板蓋下去整個會塌下來這是什麼設計結果你的罰則是多少我們在第一次它的那個\n集裝承載能力不足要補強的時候我們追加一千三百萬可是他計罰的金額是七十七萬七千元第二次又做結構補強的時候他總共追加一千六百萬展延的天數一百一十六天他罰了兩百二十七萬第三次又做了變更設計因為他的玻璃帷幕太重他沒有辦法承載\n所以我們又追加了5,446萬 展延天數172天 可是它只罰了專管6萬塊在我們又追加了8千萬的情況之下 而且展延了300多天我們對這個相關的 不管設計單位 專管單位 總共罰了300多萬可是我們又追加了8千多萬\n國防部完全任人宰割 從我們剛開始說的你設計到七層樓的時候 你即時面臨到疫情民間沒有蓋房子嗎 我們所有的公共工廠沒有在做嗎可是你可以不斷不斷的增加 你是增加倍數耶我們的原物料增加的 或者人工的增加其實它都是有一些相關的資料\n都是幾成幾成在增加 可是你是倍數在增加你現在 部長您是法律的專家像這樣子的計法 我們是可以的嗎而且這麼剛好 他計法的金額就剛好是我們的務酬款八千萬你就剛好把務酬款八千萬 也剛好把它用光了\n這就是他增加的部分這個到底是營造商跟我們的專管公司設計單位他們協調的結果還是合作的結果他們只被罰了三百多萬可是他增加八千多萬這個問題出在哪裡\n報告委員其實每次的變更設計在設計建造的部分還有專管的部分我們的確都有計法那因為計法收限於百分之二十的上限所以它那個金額的確可能很難達到一個預期那這個部分其實我們每個月或是每兩週每週我們都有人在現場跟他們開會也希望能夠補強這個部分\n但如果將來對國防部的確造成了很多實質上的損失其實我們也不排除最後工程完成以後還有一個求償的一個措施這不是笑話嗎\n部長 今天他已經連續三次的變更設計我說他不斷不斷的加價以外 他現在要把我們的務酬款剛好八千萬他就剛好設計也是增加八千萬這個部分請調查清楚 而且不要任意解凍今天如果可以從十七億多 一直增加到五十四億現在又要再增加八千萬\n你的那個承載力不足 柱子不夠我們本來設計呢 那時候到我們去看的時候說 哇 這是挑高的然後我們上面要像那個 有一些大家看過那個自然博物館上面掛恐龍骨骼的那個部分他要把我們本來現在放在外面的飛機要掛到那個上面 現在能掛嗎\n光是二樓樓地板放上去都會垮下來你還敢掛這樣這麼重的飛機嗎那時候跟我們說你為什麼要挑高因為看起來會比較紅尾而且它可以四面都沒有那麼多的柱子它的空間很大結果你現在因為承載力不足你增加了很多的柱子那現在它變成什麼樣子\n這個部分我們要求國防部一定要徹查尤其這個部分我們對廠商完全沒有沒有辦法去計法以外總共罰300萬可是我們讓他不斷不斷的增加這麼高的預算而且我們用的很多的一大部分的錢是基金基金是用了就沒了結果你讓他這樣子把錢花掉部長這個部分你們會有什麼樣的一個做法\n我想我會下去之後我會進行一個徹底的了解好不好好這個部分我們要求要有一個做法然後不要再把那個解凍案送出來你如果沒有一個解決的方案之前浪費民脂民膏然後還可以一直叫我們解凍這樣完全沒有辦法對國人交代\n那今天也有委員在詢問我們國防部所屬院校今年招生的狀況女生的錄取率增高非常多那本席請國防部提供近八年國軍各基礎院校各年度招生數錄取數以及醫生二後他的留營數\n就是你除了這些錄取人數以外一年級升二年級以後他留下來繼續念的到底有多少人數包括三軍我們的三軍的一個三軍院校國防大學各學院還有空軍航院技術學院陸軍專科學校等等請提供相關的數據資料給委員會好不好好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.209 --> 00:01.430\n今天我們大概有非常多的委員在討論不過面相不太一樣我們現在還是針對我們國防部的解凍案\n\n00:25.622 --> 00:29.786\n在討論可是我想要特別提出一個案例我想部長可以考量看看為什麼我們常常在指責委員在煽動預算的時候是黨國防預算可是我們卻讓一樣的事情不斷不斷每年在預算執行的過程當中不斷的發生而且耗費浪費我們非常多的一個國防資源我們看軍博館\n\n00:53.465 --> 01:03.555\n軍博物館這個部分從原來他本來是要蓋軍事博物館還有國軍英雄館兩個那時候編列預算大概有17億餘元這個預計在110年到112年就要完成的後來國軍英雄館因為他訴訟的關係後來沒有去\n\n01:18.809 --> 01:24.932\n增加就是要增建這個部分就只有軍博館軍博館從17億餘元變成32億餘元後來又增加到46億2現在又變成54億到現在本來112年要完成的\n\n01:36.877 --> 01:51.764\n到現在已經114年了他還沒有辦法完成而且他的過程非常離譜今天這樣的一個建築物老實說他跟很多的博物館或者包括像奇美博物館民間的還包括像台中的這個台中這個叫\n\n01:55.646 --> 02:05.129\n是歌劇院其實他們都是非常特殊的甚至他的建築體本身其實也不太一樣可是他們的造價而且他們的騎乘都非常的順暢可是我們的軍博館剛剛我提到的從17億多到現在變成54億54億多已經增加了三倍到現在還做不好\n\n02:19.053 --> 02:25.918\n部長,您知道這是什麼原因嗎?而且更離譜的是在111年的時候,這個機裝承載能力不足,要補強然後在第二次113年,也就是去年1月的時候,它的結構設計強度不足\n\n02:38.925 --> 02:59.685\n然後在去年8月又發生維木牆、抗風樑柱要補牆這三個變更是國防部甲方要求的嗎部長有掌握這個嗎我想我現在手上沒有相關的這個詳細的資料那我想我會後再跟委員做個報告\n\n03:00.677 --> 03:03.178\n部長我想在這裡談因為這個部分我們從好幾年前我們就已經提出來了這個部分比較離譜的像它第一次變更的時候機裝承載力不足它是什麼狀況廠商蓋到二樓的時候才發現它的樓地板如果放上去因為它下面的柱子太少\n\n03:21.209 --> 03:38.101\n他沒有辦法承載所以二樓樓地板如果蓋了以後他沒有辦法放東西我們這個叫軍博館他二樓如果按照這樣的一個設計他沒有辦法放東西所以我們追加了大概一千三百多萬然後讓他展延三十天然後第二次在去年他的又變更設計一次他是怎麼樣牆面太大\n\n03:49.485 --> 04:06.073\n它的支撐力不足所以要補強剛構同時在去年第三次的變更維木牆抗風樑柱補強就是頂樓的玻璃維木它的抗風能力不足又做了樑柱補強部長您剛剛有聽到我說明的這三次補強的原因這是什麼專管公司這是什麼設計單位\n\n04:16.874 --> 04:21.116\n他們現在總共追加了大概又8000多萬我們從剛剛我念的17億還有32億46億到後來54億現在又8000萬而且他展延天數大概300多天幾乎又要一年部長您怎麼看\n\n04:36.023 --> 04:54.831\n我的瞭解是有一部分是行政院認為我們原來的這個因為軍火管的設置不易所以要求我們這個整個量體要增加因此教育不好,你要不要說明一下\n\n04:57.748 --> 05:16.266\n委員好我是志願司司長那之前因為我是在政務辦公室副主任所以對這個案子稍微有點了解一開始17億的那個部分是因為那時候我們設計的大概是兩層樓高這樣一個建築量體那後來在行政院開會的時候行政院覺得在這個地段做這樣子的設計效益不足所以請我們再重新考量\n\n05:16.966 --> 05:30.820\n所以後來我們到加到了七層樓所以有一個會有一個這樣經費的一個增加而且後來因為是疫情的關係那所以我們幾次的一個招標都沒有很順利那後來也是行政院工程會把當初那時候所有行政院的重大工程\n\n05:32.421 --> 05:35.842\n那個金額的調整那個已經有討論過我現在說的是你三次的變更不會太離譜嗎我們在過去沒有專管公司的時候甚至你怎麼會設計到你的樑柱的支撐力不足你明明蓋到七樓然後它的那個二樓的樓地板蓋下去整個會塌下來這是什麼設計結果你的罰則是多少我們在第一次它的那個\n\n05:59.352 --> 06:10.415\n集裝承載能力不足要補強的時候我們追加一千三百萬可是他計罰的金額是七十七萬七千元第二次又做結構補強的時候他總共追加一千六百萬展延的天數一百一十六天他罰了兩百二十七萬第三次又做了變更設計因為他的玻璃帷幕太重他沒有辦法承載\n\n06:28.820 --> 06:32.022\n所以我們又追加了5,446萬展延天數172天可是它只罰了專管6萬塊在我們又追加了8千萬的情況之下而且展延了300多天我們對這個相關的不管設計單位專管單位總共罰了300多萬可是我們又追加了8千多萬\n\n06:51.415 --> 07:15.113\n國防部完全任人宰割從我們剛開始說的你設計到七層樓的時候你即時面臨到疫情民間沒有蓋房子嗎我們所有的公共工廠沒有在做嗎可是你可以不斷不斷的增加你是增加倍數耶我們的原物料增加的或者人工的增加其實它都是有一些相關的資料\n\n07:18.018 --> 07:34.183\n都是幾成幾成在增加可是你是倍數在增加你現在部長您是法律的專家像這樣子的計法我們是可以的嗎而且這麼剛好他計法的金額就剛好是我們的務酬款八千萬你就剛好把務酬款八千萬也剛好把它用光了\n\n07:39.384 --> 07:53.605\n這就是他增加的部分這個到底是營造商跟我們的專管公司設計單位他們協調的結果還是合作的結果他們只被罰了三百多萬可是他增加八千多萬這個問題出在哪裡\n\n07:59.165 --> 08:21.040\n報告委員其實每次的變更設計在設計建造的部分還有專管的部分我們的確都有計法那因為計法收限於百分之二十的上限所以它那個金額的確可能很難達到一個預期那這個部分其實我們每個月或是每兩週每週我們都有人在現場跟他們開會也希望能夠補強這個部分\n\n08:22.421 --> 08:30.895\n但如果將來對國防部的確造成了很多實質上的損失其實我們也不排除最後工程完成以後還有一個求償的一個措施這不是笑話嗎\n\n08:32.352 --> 08:55.333\n部長今天他已經連續三次的變更設計我說他不斷不斷的加價以外他現在要把我們的務酬款剛好八千萬他就剛好設計也是增加八千萬這個部分請調查清楚而且不要任意解凍今天如果可以從十七億多一直增加到五十四億現在又要再增加八千萬\n\n08:56.514 --> 09:03.756\n你的那個承載力不足柱子不夠我們本來設計呢那時候到我們去看的時候說哇這是挑高的然後我們上面要像那個有一些大家看過那個自然博物館上面掛恐龍骨骼的那個部分他要把我們本來現在放在外面的飛機要掛到那個上面現在能掛嗎\n\n09:17.299 --> 09:23.285\n光是二樓樓地板放上去都會垮下來你還敢掛這樣這麼重的飛機嗎那時候跟我們說你為什麼要挑高因為看起來會比較紅尾而且它可以四面都沒有那麼多的柱子它的空間很大結果你現在因為承載力不足你增加了很多的柱子那現在它變成什麼樣子\n\n09:41.361 --> 09:45.862\n這個部分我們要求國防部一定要徹查尤其這個部分我們對廠商完全沒有沒有辦法去計法以外總共罰300萬可是我們讓他不斷不斷的增加這麼高的預算而且我們用的很多的一大部分的錢是基金基金是用了就沒了結果你讓他這樣子把錢花掉部長這個部分你們會有什麼樣的一個做法\n\n10:09.323 --> 10:27.130\n我想我會下去之後我會進行一個徹底的了解好不好好這個部分我們要求要有一個做法然後不要再把那個解凍案送出來你如果沒有一個解決的方案之前浪費民脂民膏然後還可以一直叫我們解凍這樣完全沒有辦法對國人交代\n\n10:30.231 --> 10:48.726\n那今天也有委員在詢問我們國防部所屬院校今年招生的狀況女生的錄取率增高非常多那本席請國防部提供近八年國軍各基礎院校各年度招生數錄取數以及醫生二後他的留營數\n\n10:50.424 --> 11:13.063\n就是你除了這些錄取人數以外一年級升二年級以後他留下來繼續念的到底有多少人數包括三軍我們的三軍的一個三軍院校國防大學各學院還有空軍航院技術學院陸軍專科學校等等請提供相關的數據資料給委員會好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.209,"end":1.43,"text":"今天我們大概有非常多的委員在討論不過面相不太一樣我們現在還是針對我們國防部的解凍案"},{"start":25.622,"end":29.786,"text":"在討論可是我想要特別提出一個案例我想部長可以考量看看為什麼我們常常在指責委員在煽動預算的時候是黨國防預算可是我們卻讓一樣的事情不斷不斷每年在預算執行的過程當中不斷的發生而且耗費浪費我們非常多的一個國防資源我們看軍博館"},{"start":53.465,"end":63.555,"text":"軍博物館這個部分從原來他本來是要蓋軍事博物館還有國軍英雄館兩個那時候編列預算大概有17億餘元這個預計在110年到112年就要完成的後來國軍英雄館因為他訴訟的關係後來沒有去"},{"start":78.809,"end":84.932,"text":"增加就是要增建這個部分就只有軍博館軍博館從17億餘元變成32億餘元後來又增加到46億2現在又變成54億到現在本來112年要完成的"},{"start":96.877,"end":111.764,"text":"到現在已經114年了他還沒有辦法完成而且他的過程非常離譜今天這樣的一個建築物老實說他跟很多的博物館或者包括像奇美博物館民間的還包括像台中的這個台中這個叫"},{"start":115.646,"end":125.129,"text":"是歌劇院 其實他們都是非常特殊的甚至他的建築體本身其實也不太一樣可是他們的造價 而且他們的騎乘都非常的順暢可是我們的軍博館 剛剛我提到的從17億多到現在變成54億54億多已經增加了三倍 到現在還做不好"},{"start":139.053,"end":145.918,"text":"部長,您知道這是什麼原因嗎?而且更離譜的是在111年的時候,這個機裝承載能力不足,要補強然後在第二次113年,也就是去年1月的時候,它的結構設計強度不足"},{"start":158.925,"end":179.685,"text":"然後在去年8月又發生維木牆、抗風樑柱要補牆這三個變更是國防部甲方要求的嗎部長有掌握這個嗎我想我現在手上沒有相關的這個詳細的資料那我想我會後再跟委員做個報告"},{"start":180.677,"end":183.178,"text":"部長我想在這裡談因為這個部分我們從好幾年前我們就已經提出來了這個部分比較離譜的像它第一次變更的時候機裝承載力不足它是什麼狀況廠商蓋到二樓的時候才發現它的樓地板如果放上去因為它下面的柱子太少"},{"start":201.209,"end":218.101,"text":"他沒有辦法承載所以二樓樓地板如果蓋了以後他沒有辦法放東西我們這個叫軍博館他二樓如果按照這樣的一個設計他沒有辦法放東西所以我們追加了大概一千三百多萬然後讓他展延三十天然後第二次在去年他的又變更設計一次他是怎麼樣牆面太大"},{"start":229.485,"end":246.073,"text":"它的支撐力不足 所以要補強剛構同時在去年第三次的變更維木牆抗風 樑柱補強就是頂樓的玻璃維木 它的抗風能力不足又做了樑柱補強部長您剛剛有聽到我說明的這三次補強的原因這是什麼專管公司 這是什麼設計單位"},{"start":256.874,"end":261.116,"text":"他們現在總共追加了大概又8000多萬我們從剛剛我念的17億還有32億46億到後來54億現在又8000萬而且他展延天數大概300多天幾乎又要一年部長您怎麼看"},{"start":276.023,"end":294.831,"text":"我的瞭解是有一部分是行政院認為我們原來的這個因為軍火管的設置不易所以要求我們這個整個量體要增加因此教育不好,你要不要說明一下"},{"start":297.748,"end":316.266,"text":"委員好我是志願司司長那之前因為我是在政務辦公室副主任所以對這個案子稍微有點了解一開始17億的那個部分是因為那時候我們設計的大概是兩層樓高這樣一個建築量體那後來在行政院開會的時候行政院覺得在這個地段做這樣子的設計效益不足所以請我們再重新考量"},{"start":316.966,"end":330.82,"text":"所以後來我們到加到了七層樓所以有一個會有一個這樣經費的一個增加而且後來因為是疫情的關係那所以我們幾次的一個招標都沒有很順利那後來也是行政院工程會把當初那時候所有行政院的重大工程"},{"start":332.421,"end":335.842,"text":"那個金額的調整那個已經有討論過我現在說的是你三次的變更不會太離譜嗎我們在過去沒有專管公司的時候甚至你怎麼會設計到你的樑柱的支撐力不足你明明蓋到七樓然後它的那個二樓的樓地板蓋下去整個會塌下來這是什麼設計結果你的罰則是多少我們在第一次它的那個"},{"start":359.352,"end":370.415,"text":"集裝承載能力不足要補強的時候我們追加一千三百萬可是他計罰的金額是七十七萬七千元第二次又做結構補強的時候他總共追加一千六百萬展延的天數一百一十六天他罰了兩百二十七萬第三次又做了變更設計因為他的玻璃帷幕太重他沒有辦法承載"},{"start":388.82,"end":392.022,"text":"所以我們又追加了5,446萬 展延天數172天 可是它只罰了專管6萬塊在我們又追加了8千萬的情況之下 而且展延了300多天我們對這個相關的 不管設計單位 專管單位 總共罰了300多萬可是我們又追加了8千多萬"},{"start":411.415,"end":435.113,"text":"國防部完全任人宰割 從我們剛開始說的你設計到七層樓的時候 你即時面臨到疫情民間沒有蓋房子嗎 我們所有的公共工廠沒有在做嗎可是你可以不斷不斷的增加 你是增加倍數耶我們的原物料增加的 或者人工的增加其實它都是有一些相關的資料"},{"start":438.018,"end":454.183,"text":"都是幾成幾成在增加 可是你是倍數在增加你現在 部長您是法律的專家像這樣子的計法 我們是可以的嗎而且這麼剛好 他計法的金額就剛好是我們的務酬款八千萬你就剛好把務酬款八千萬 也剛好把它用光了"},{"start":459.384,"end":473.605,"text":"這就是他增加的部分這個到底是營造商跟我們的專管公司設計單位他們協調的結果還是合作的結果他們只被罰了三百多萬可是他增加八千多萬這個問題出在哪裡"},{"start":479.165,"end":501.04,"text":"報告委員其實每次的變更設計在設計建造的部分還有專管的部分我們的確都有計法那因為計法收限於百分之二十的上限所以它那個金額的確可能很難達到一個預期那這個部分其實我們每個月或是每兩週每週我們都有人在現場跟他們開會也希望能夠補強這個部分"},{"start":502.421,"end":510.895,"text":"但如果將來對國防部的確造成了很多實質上的損失其實我們也不排除最後工程完成以後還有一個求償的一個措施這不是笑話嗎"},{"start":512.352,"end":535.333,"text":"部長 今天他已經連續三次的變更設計我說他不斷不斷的加價以外 他現在要把我們的務酬款剛好八千萬他就剛好設計也是增加八千萬這個部分請調查清楚 而且不要任意解凍今天如果可以從十七億多 一直增加到五十四億現在又要再增加八千萬"},{"start":536.514,"end":543.756,"text":"你的那個承載力不足 柱子不夠我們本來設計呢 那時候到我們去看的時候說 哇 這是挑高的然後我們上面要像那個 有一些大家看過那個自然博物館上面掛恐龍骨骼的那個部分他要把我們本來現在放在外面的飛機要掛到那個上面 現在能掛嗎"},{"start":557.299,"end":563.285,"text":"光是二樓樓地板放上去都會垮下來你還敢掛這樣這麼重的飛機嗎那時候跟我們說你為什麼要挑高因為看起來會比較紅尾而且它可以四面都沒有那麼多的柱子它的空間很大結果你現在因為承載力不足你增加了很多的柱子那現在它變成什麼樣子"},{"start":581.361,"end":585.862,"text":"這個部分我們要求國防部一定要徹查尤其這個部分我們對廠商完全沒有沒有辦法去計法以外總共罰300萬可是我們讓他不斷不斷的增加這麼高的預算而且我們用的很多的一大部分的錢是基金基金是用了就沒了結果你讓他這樣子把錢花掉部長這個部分你們會有什麼樣的一個做法"},{"start":609.323,"end":627.13,"text":"我想我會下去之後我會進行一個徹底的了解好不好好這個部分我們要求要有一個做法然後不要再把那個解凍案送出來你如果沒有一個解決的方案之前浪費民脂民膏然後還可以一直叫我們解凍這樣完全沒有辦法對國人交代"},{"start":630.231,"end":648.726,"text":"那今天也有委員在詢問我們國防部所屬院校今年招生的狀況女生的錄取率增高非常多那本席請國防部提供近八年國軍各基礎院校各年度招生數錄取數以及醫生二後他的留營數"},{"start":650.424,"end":673.063,"text":"就是你除了這些錄取人數以外一年級升二年級以後他留下來繼續念的到底有多少人數包括三軍我們的三軍的一個三軍院校國防大學各學院還有空軍航院技術學院陸軍專科學校等等請提供相關的數據資料給委員會好不好好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":465,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（11時4分）謝謝主席，麻煩請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["顧部長立雄：馬委員好。"],["馬委員文君：部長好。今天我們有非常多的委員在討論，雖然面向不太一樣，所以我們現在還是針對國防部的解凍案來討論，可是我想要特別提出一個案例，部長可以考量看看，為什麼常常指責委員在刪凍預算的時候是在擋國防預算，每年在預算執行的過程當中，卻讓一樣的事情不斷、不斷的發生，而且耗費、浪費非常多的國防資源？","我們來看軍博館，它本來是要蓋軍事博物館還有國軍英雄館這兩個館，那時候編列的預算大概有十七億餘元，預計在110年到112年完成，後來國軍英雄館因為訴訟的關係，後來沒有要增建這個部分，所以就只剩下軍博館，軍博館的經費從十七億餘元變成三十二億餘元，後來又增加到四十六億二，現在又變成五十四億，本來112年要完成，到現在已經114年了，它還沒有辦法完成，而且它的過程非常離譜。","今天像這樣的建築物，老實說它跟很多的博物館，包括民間的奇美博物館，還包括臺中的歌劇院，其實他們都是非常特殊的，甚至建築體本身也不太一樣，可是他們的造價，還有他們的期程都進行地非常順暢，反觀軍博館，剛剛我有提到，從十七億多到現在變成五十四億多，已經增加了三倍，而且到現在還做不好。部長，你知道是什麼原因嗎？而且更離譜的是，在111年的時候，基樁承載能力不足要補強；第二次在113年，也就是去年1月的時候，它的結構設計強度不足；然後在去年8月又發生帷幕牆抗風梁柱要補強，這三個變更是國防部（甲方）要求的嗎？部長有掌握這個嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我現在手上沒有相關的詳細資料，我會後再跟委員做個報告。"],["馬委員文君：部長，我想在這裡談，因為這個部分從好幾年前我們就已經提出來了。這個部分比較離譜的是，像第一次變更的時候，是因為基樁承載力不足，這是什麼狀況呢？就是廠商蓋到二樓的時候才發現，因為它下面的柱子太少，它的樓地板沒有辦法承載，所以二樓樓地板蓋了以後，是沒有辦法放東西的，這個建築是軍博館，如果二樓按照這樣的設計，它就沒有辦法放東西，所以追加了大概一千三百多萬，並讓它展延30天。","去年它又變更設計一次，也就是第二次變更，這是怎麼樣的情況呢？牆面太大，它的支撐力不足，所以要補強鋼構；同時在去年又有第三次的變更，即帷幕牆抗風梁柱補強，就是頂樓的玻璃帷幕抗風能力不足，又做了梁柱補強。部長剛剛應該有聽到我說明這三次補強的原因，這是什麼專管公司？這是什麼設計單位？他們現在又要追加大概八千多萬，剛剛我唸了17億、32億、46億，到後來的54億，現在又要8,000萬，而且展延天數大概有三百多天，幾乎又快一年，部長，您怎麼看？"],["顧部長立雄：我的了解是，有一部分是行政院認為軍博館的設置不易，所以要求我們整個量體要增加，我請藍司長說明一下。"],["藍司長靜婷：委員好。我是資源司司長，因為之前我是在政務辦公室擔任副主任，所以對這個案子稍微有點了解，一開始17億的部分，是因為那時候設計的高度大概是兩層樓高這樣的建築量體，後來在行政院開會的時候，行政院覺得在這個地段做這樣子的設計效益不足，請我們再重新考量，所以後來加到了七層樓，才會有這樣經費的增加，而且後來因為疫情的關係，所以幾次的招標都沒有很順利，後來也是行政院工程會把當初所有行政院的重大工程……"],["馬委員文君：沒關係，你不要再說明這個部分，那個金額的調整，已經有討論過了，我現在說的是，變更三次不會太離譜嗎？過去沒有專管公司的時候，甚至怎麼會設計到讓梁柱支撐力不足，明明要蓋到7樓，然後2樓的樓地板蓋下去會整個塌下來，這是什麼設計？結果罰則是多少？我們在它第一次基樁承載能力不足要補強的時候，追加1,300萬，可是計罰的金額是77萬7,000元，第二次做結構補強的時候，它總共追加1,600萬，展延天數116天，罰了227萬，第三次又做了變更設計，因為玻璃帷幕太重，沒有辦法承載，所以又追加了5,446萬，展延天數172天，可是只罰了它專管6萬塊，在又追加了8,000萬的情況之下，展延了三百多天，不管是設計單位、專管單位總共罰了三百多萬，可是又追加了八千多萬，國防部完全任人宰割！從我們剛開始說的，你設計到7層樓的時候，即使面臨到疫情，民間沒有蓋房子嗎？所有的公共工程沒有在做嗎？可是你可以不斷不斷地增加，你是增加倍數耶！原物料的增加或者人工的增加其實都有一些相關的資料，都是幾成幾成在增加，可是你是倍數在增加，部長是法律的專家，像這樣子的計罰，我們是可以的嗎？而且這麼剛好，它計罰的金額就剛好是我們的物籌款8,000萬，你就剛好把物籌款8,000萬用光了，這就是它增加的部分，這到底是營造商跟專管公司設計單位協調的結果還是合作的結果？他們只被罰了三百多萬，可是它增加八千多萬，這個問題出在哪裡？"],["藍司長靜婷：報告委員，其實每一次的變更設計，在設計監造還有專管的部分，我們的確都有計罰，因為計罰受限於百分之二十的上限，所以它的金額的確可能很難達到預期，關於這個部分，其實每個月或是每兩週、每週，我們都有人在現場跟他們開會，也希望能夠補強這個部分，如果將來對國防部的確造成了很多實質上的損失，其實我們也不排除最後工程完成以後，還有一個求償的措施，謝謝。"],["馬委員文君：這不是笑話嗎？部長，今天它已經連續3次的變更設計，它除了不斷不斷地加價以外，現在還要把我們的物籌款剛好8,000萬，它就剛好設計也是增加8,000萬，這個部分請調查清楚，而且不要任意解凍，今天如果可以從十七億多一直增加到54億，現在又要再增加8,000萬，你的承載力不足、柱子不夠，我們本來設計……那時候帶我們去看的時候說，哇！這是挑高的，然後上面要像大家看過的自然博物館上面掛恐龍骨骼的那個部分，要把本來放在外面的飛機掛到上面，現在能掛嗎？光是2樓樓地板放上去都會垮下來，你還敢掛這麼重的飛機嗎？那時候跟我們說你為什麼要挑高？因為看起來可能比較宏偉，而且它四面可以沒有那麼多的柱子，它的空間很大，結果現在因為承載力不足，增加了很多的柱子，那現在它變成什麼樣子？這個部分，我們要求國防部一定要澈查，尤其這個部分，我們對廠商完全沒有辦法去計罰以外，總共才罰300萬，可是我們讓它不斷不斷地增加這麼高的預算，而且我們用的很多錢一大部分是基金，基金是用了就沒了，結果你讓它這樣子把錢花掉，部長，關於這個部分，你們會有什麼樣的作法？"],["顧部長立雄：我下去之後會進行澈底了解，好不好？"],["馬委員文君：好，這個部分我們要求要有一個作法，然後不要再把解凍案送出來，你如果沒有一個解決的方案，浪費民脂民膏還一直叫我們解凍，這樣完全沒有辦法對國人交代。","今天也有委員在詢問今年國防部所屬院校的招生狀況，女生的錄取率增高非常多，本席請國防部提供近8年國軍各基礎院校各年度招生數、錄取數以及一升二後的留營數，就是除了這些錄取人數以外，一年級升二年級以後，他留下來繼續念的到底有多少人數，包括三軍院校、國防大學各學院還有空軍航院、技術學院、陸軍專科學校等等，請提供相關的數據資料給委員會，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：好，謝謝。"],["馬委員文君：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝馬委員，部長請回。","接下來有請陳冠廷委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-17","speakers":["沈伯洋","羅美玲","陳俊宇","黃仁","王定宇","徐巧芯","林楚茵","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","馬文君","陳冠廷","林憶君","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-26"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國防部主管預算凍結案等120案","agenda_id":"1145401_00001"}}}