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\"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 308.008, \"end\": 308.188, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 308.188, \"end\": 308.328, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 308.328, \"end\": 308.508, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 308.508, \"end\": 308.708, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 308.708, \"end\": 308.868, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 308.868, \"end\": 309.008, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 309.008, \"end\": 309.108, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 309.108, \"end\": 309.329, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 309.329, \"end\": 309.549, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 309.549, \"end\": 309.569, \"score\": 0.949}]}, {\"start\": 309.929, \"end\": 325.248, \"text\": \"所以我覺得就是這個空氣汙染的這個大戶其實我覺得你們應該要多用力一些其實不只只有中火其實我剛剛提到的這個中榮的這個部分其實也是一個非常這個空\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 309.929, \"end\": 310.029, \"score\": 0.798}, 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\"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 316.257, \"end\": 316.457, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 316.457, \"end\": 316.758, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 316.758, \"end\": 317.038, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 317.038, \"end\": 317.218, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 317.218, \"end\": 317.418, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 317.418, \"end\": 317.699, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 317.699, \"end\": 317.719, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 317.719, \"end\": 318.76, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 318.76, \"end\": 319.321, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 319.321, \"end\": 319.481, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 319.481, \"end\": 320.202, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 320.202, \"end\": 320.302, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 320.302, \"end\": 320.462, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 320.462, \"end\": 320.723, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"火\", \"start\": 320.723, \"end\": 320.923, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 320.923, \"end\": 321.163, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 321.163, \"end\": 321.664, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 321.664, \"end\": 321.864, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 321.864, \"end\": 322.044, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 322.044, \"end\": 322.465, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 322.465, \"end\": 322.865, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"榮\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 322.865, \"end\": 323.266, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 323.266, \"end\": 323.406, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 323.406, 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\"end\": 785.003, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 785.003, \"end\": 785.223, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 785.223, \"end\": 785.323, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 785.323, \"end\": 785.444, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 785.444, \"end\": 785.564, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 785.564, \"end\": 785.744, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 785.744, \"end\": 785.764, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,173 --> 00:00:08,095\n謝謝主席我們請部長好要請部長\n\n2\n00:00:13,227 --> 00:00:39,748\n黃委員好部長剛剛張委員在詢問的我剛剛有上網看了台電每一天的發電量多少那他是燃油燃氣或者是氣墊共生他的比例在網路上面都有所以等一下請張委員其實也可以在網路上面搜尋一下另外當然就是說空污的這個議題對張化的委員來講其實我們都非常的關心尤其是張化\n\n3\n00:00:40,789 --> 00:00:54,579\n北邊有這個中火台中火力發電廠那南邊有六清那每一天到底這個火力發電廠或六清這個發電所造成的這個空污的部分那剛剛我也聽到部長講說你們都有在監測那當然這個污染的\n\n4\n00:00:59,922 --> 00:01:07,168\n這個源頭有很多啦剛剛有特別提到其實固定污染源和移動污染源那彰化這邊其實我還有一個議題我想請教部長的就是說除了你們有去監測這兩個就是說這\n\n5\n00:01:15,954 --> 00:01:39,747\n這個周邊火力發電廠或者是六輕這周邊的這個空污的狀況你們應該是每一天每每時時都在監測嘛對不對時時都在監測那我想請教就是說這幾天從這個上個禮拜這個河山廠停機之後那到現在那個整個中部地區的這個空瓶的部分是不是有明顯的變化\n\n6\n00:01:41,096 --> 00:01:56,299\n報告委員這個其實沒有任何的波動但是每天的這個波動會因為氣象的因素的變化有一些差別那目前來看的話我們從5月17號之後到目前為止空品沒有顯著的變化是都是良好等級\n\n7\n00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:13,365\n那也有可能是最近這幾天下雨的關係所以在這邊本席也要求就是環境部針對這一部分應該是實時監測如果有一旦沒有下雨然後整個空氣品質狀況是有顯著的差異\n\n8\n00:02:17,566 --> 00:02:33,203\n明顯的變差我也希望就是說這個不是只有環境部的這個責任應該能源這邊或者是台電我覺得都應該要大家都要有責任那另外就是說我看到一個另外一個就是說\n\n9\n00:02:34,304 --> 00:02:50,858\n在之前我有詢問過我們部長就是說移動污染源的這個部分然後可能很多來自於汽機車那這個汽機車的這個污染其實我們也希望就是說這個老舊的汽機車我們也希望就是能夠逐年汰換嘛那這個其實也是一個這個\n\n10\n00:02:54,762 --> 00:03:05,733\n空氣污染一個很大的一個主要原因另外就是說在我們環境部在之前也有在鼓勵工業用的這個鍋爐鍋爐的這個鈦換可能由燃油換為這個燃氣那我想請教就是說像這\n\n11\n00:03:14,201 --> 00:03:30,209\n這個部分你們目前做的狀況是怎樣我知道說好像是2030年希望就是說全部燃油是不是可以全部換為燃氣那這個狀況你們目前做的這個進度是怎樣報告委員那個淨零的策略裡面有一項就是所謂的\n\n12\n00:03:31,049 --> 00:03:57,139\n非電力的製造業這種所謂的鍋爐全部改換成燃氣這個是我們既定的政策那我舉例例如說像我們目前的空瓶從103年的24維克PM2.5降到現在12.8其實如果以中部來看的話最大的貢獻其實有一個當年那個李應元署長當署長的時候他就是花了很多空污費去做這樣的一個改善其實這個成效是非常好的當然我知道\n\n13\n00:03:57,699 --> 00:04:16,355\n以彰化來說的話還有那我們未來呢應該會在逐步的加強管制的力道希望那個管換的這個機會換的速度可以更快一點點好那我們希望就是說不只是這個中部地區的空污的部分其實不只是只有中火啦或者是六清\n\n14\n00:04:17,316 --> 00:04:32,554\n也許還有其他的這個這個中融其實中融也是一個很大的這個空氣污染的一個這個非常大的一個主要原因啦對啊那像這部分的話你們針對中融的部分你們有做什麼樣的\n\n15\n00:04:33,416 --> 00:04:50,335\n要求他們要做什麼樣的這個改善我們目前其實我有請我同仁找到一個例如說因為中榮也算是泛國營事業以目前國營事業113年的排放量跟105年相比台電是減72是最多的那中榮減得比較少大概只有18%\n\n16\n00:04:52,257 --> 00:05:09,569\n中鋼呢就40%這個排污染的量減少非常的多那其實這個部分呢我們應該給好的要給墾丁更多如果像這樣他跟別的例如說跟中鋼比他18中鋼已經做到40那我們會再督促他能不能做出更有效的一個做法\n\n17\n00:05:09,929 --> 00:05:25,248\n所以我覺得就是這個空氣汙染的這個大戶其實我覺得你們應該要多用力一些其實不只只有中火其實我剛剛提到的這個中榮的這個部分其實也是一個非常這個空\n\n18\n00:05:26,750 --> 00:05:40,879\n空氣污染的這個非常嚴重的一個一個廠家所以我們也希望如果說你跟中鋼來比的話中鋼都可以做到這個百分之四十那為什麼中榮沒辦法做到所以我覺得環境部針對這部分應該還要再加強\n\n19\n00:05:42,580 --> 00:06:04,535\nOK好另外我想請教就是說去年監察院有針對我們環境部就是有關這個探定價制度就是一直好像沒有一個比較明確的這個制定下來這個探定價一直都沒辦法很明確那另外就是說2050的這個淨零排放第二期的這個目標\n\n20\n00:06:07,117 --> 00:06:27,214\n好像也這個2025年第二期都快結束了這個目標好像好像還沒辦法去達到那我想請教部長針對這個監察院這邊的一個糾正那你們要怎麼去達成這樣子第二期的目標那另外就是有關碳定價的這個制度你們什麼時候會定下來\n\n21\n00:06:28,414 --> 00:06:42,080\n因為探聽架其實是今年1月1號開始有探費開始實施所以探聽架已經完成了這個是非常艱鉅的一個挑戰跟委員報告其實監察院並沒有糾正是調查目前其實我們的減量係數我們上一個2022年是跟2005年是減1.77我們最新的數字2023年已經減到4.64我們目前看2024初估可能會有到5到6%左右\n\n22\n00:06:55,345 --> 00:07:17,530\n那2025就今年我們因為那個要整個事情發生了之後要隔一年多經過所有的數據統計完才能出來所以我們目前推估2025年當然要看今年的景氣好不好目前我們推估應該有機會到8到9%左右所以當然離我們原來的階段改進目標希望到10一點點差距但是我們的確在減量的速度上\n\n23\n00:07:19,051 --> 00:07:31,544\n部長我想請教就是說你們有關這個2050的淨零我相信這是我們的目標嘛那之前也有特別提到就是說可能也因應這個美國關稅的這個議題那會不會因為這樣子然後有所這個會\n\n24\n00:07:38,332 --> 00:07:44,739\n這個步驟或者是這個時程是不是會有所做一個調整那另外就是說之前我們是針對500家針對500家去做那我不知道說你們針對這部分你們會不會做一個調整\n\n25\n00:07:53,028 --> 00:08:17,235\n幫委員第一個是說因為全世界目前沒有一個國家因為關稅或是說美國川普總統有任何的改變所以目前我們堅定的照這個速度走但是其實因為我們也知道我們現在其實要收碳費的企業依照去年排碳量統計現在剩下252家大概400多個工廠而已有稍微變少一點點目前我們是針對例如說有些會受到關稅影響的產業\n\n26\n00:08:19,016 --> 00:08:30,922\n那我們會給他特別的輔導甚至給他高碳洩漏係數的折扣所以這個目前呢但不過他每年都要提不是說現在就給他大傻逼這樣不是我們有一套的這個節奏所以我們會幫助產業度過這個難關是好那\n\n27\n00:08:34,504 --> 00:08:52,160\n部長我想請教就是說你之前也有特別提到就是說高溫台灣的高溫的這個議題那你本身也有提到就是說環境部預計在6月要成立一個高溫對策聯盟那7月預計要推出高溫防護地圖\n\n28\n00:08:53,641 --> 00:09:10,303\n好那其實我看到這個的時候我想說這個好像跟那個氣象局好像比較有關合作一起合作就環境部跟我們氣象局這邊是一起合作的對還有很多的部會是因為跟委員報告因為以前我們對於這種所謂的氣候變遷的東西\n\n29\n00:09:12,225 --> 00:09:37,374\n紙上談兵比較多啦我們是希望倒過來拿這個高溫試看看說我們把一次的很熱很熱的那幾天當成像颱風來的樣子一樣然後我們是不是可以實際來演練那演練完之後我們寫成明年的規劃案來執行這些事情好那像這樣子的話你們這個高溫對策聯盟你是有哪幾個單位是一起合作的\n\n30\n00:09:38,527 --> 00:10:06,277\n跟委員報告我們目前會包括就是政府各相關部會那也會邀集民間企業那也會邀集民間團體希望是說大家一起採取行動是是所以所以如果說從六月份如果你們成立這個高溫對策聯盟或者是七月這個高溫防護地圖那你們會希望就是說相關單位譬如說勞動部啊或者是相關企業在看到這樣子一個高溫\n\n31\n00:10:07,177 --> 00:10:33,618\n的部分然後可以希望企業怎麼去做或者是對於在室外工作的這些勞工能夠做什麼樣的防護你們是希望能夠透過這樣的一個防護地圖然後能夠給予什麼樣的一個建議或者是希望就譬如說勞動部如果看到這樣子的一個高溫的狀況的話那是不是未來有可能去放這個高溫架或者是\n\n32\n00:10:35,279 --> 00:10:51,190\n報告委員因為其實這個高溫以戶外的勞工為例他其實是遇到高溫應該有適當的一個休息時間那以我自己是氣象專業過去氣象專業的話我們認為台灣要放高溫假因為只有中午那幾個小時啦其實是有點困難啦\n\n33\n00:10:51,730 --> 00:11:14,611\n那其實我們會希望保障國人的安全健康甚至說我們這次還有針對弱勢貧窮的族群特別是年長者因為他可能經濟狀況沒辦法那麼好去換那個節能的冷氣那他因此就不敢吹冷氣要省錢反而造成他的很大的健康影響我們希望用大數據的方式把這些族群撈出來給他特別的服務\n\n34\n00:11:15,051 --> 00:11:26,237\n所以我們其實這次是導過來用行動來找出一些可行的做法然後明年提出一個實際上可行的方案所以你們這個是跨部會的可能就環境部勞動部還有衛福部然後\n\n35\n00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:47,663\n地方政府也一起進來所以會有一些成效的話或者是跟民眾比較有切身關係或者是你剛剛講的針對長者的部分也許他可以換什麼樣的東西的話這個應該也是在明年度\n\n36\n00:11:48,143 --> 00:12:07,821\n才會有這樣實際的行動今年我們就是把實際上例如說像一個假設有幾天可能超過38度了那幾天我們就特別來做演練像颱風一樣我們缺什麼缺什麼缺什麼然後誰還做得不夠我們就提出一個檢討方案希望明年有這個經驗實際上來做不然的話我們過去可能都是紙上談兵\n\n37\n00:12:08,942 --> 00:12:34,578\n好那當然我們也第一次啦應該這個算是第一次政府這樣子投入那這個也是因應我們的氣候韌性所以我們希望說部長以你的專業然後提供給其他的部會或者是地方政府也許可以提供給勞動其實我第一次看到這個我第一個想到可能就是在高溫底下工作的這些\n\n38\n00:12:35,499 --> 00:12:56,019\n勞工啦所以這個也許對這些勞工是會有一個很大的一個幫助因為其實抗高溫已經變成是一個產業我們就發現台灣很多民間的廠商他們都做出來例如說夏天有一個冷氣衣穿在身上就不會那麼的熱或是說頭盔它有一些可以如果你快要中暑的\n\n39\n00:12:56,759 --> 00:13:05,764\n他就會給你警告,那樣的一個方式我們希望把這個引進來給那個業界他們可以自己多購買這樣的東西這個也是一個高溫的產業,希望他們可以自己起來\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7173\t8095\t謝謝主席 我們請部長好 要請部長\n13227\t39748\t黃委員好 部長剛剛張委員在詢問的我剛剛有上網看了台電每一天的發電量多少那他是燃油燃氣或者是氣墊共生他的比例在網路上面都有所以等一下請張委員其實也可以在網路上面搜尋一下另外當然就是說空污的這個議題對張化的委員來講其實我們都非常的關心尤其是張化\n40789\t54579\t北邊有這個中火台中火力發電廠那南邊有六清那每一天到底這個火力發電廠或六清這個發電所造成的這個空污的部分那剛剛我也聽到部長講說你們都有在監測那當然這個污染的\n59922\t67168\t這個源頭有很多啦剛剛有特別提到其實固定污染源和移動污染源那彰化這邊其實我還有一個議題我想請教部長的就是說除了你們有去監測這兩個就是說這\n75954\t99747\t這個周邊火力發電廠或者是六輕這周邊的這個空污的狀況你們應該是每一天每每時時都在監測嘛對不對時時都在監測那我想請教就是說這幾天從這個上個禮拜這個河山廠停機之後那到現在那個整個中部地區的這個空瓶的部分是不是有明顯的變化\n101096\t116299\t報告委員這個其實沒有任何的波動但是每天的這個波動會因為氣象的因素的變化有一些差別那目前來看的話我們從5月17號之後到目前為止空品沒有顯著的變化是都是良好等級\n117880\t133365\t那也有可能是最近這幾天下雨的關係所以在這邊本席也要求就是環境部針對這一部分應該是實時監測如果有一旦沒有下雨然後整個空氣品質狀況是有顯著的差異\n137566\t153203\t明顯的變差我也希望就是說這個不是只有環境部的這個責任應該能源這邊或者是台電我覺得都應該要大家都要有責任那另外就是說我看到一個另外一個就是說\n154304\t170858\t在之前我有詢問過我們部長就是說移動污染源的這個部分然後可能很多來自於汽機車那這個汽機車的這個污染其實我們也希望就是說這個老舊的汽機車我們也希望就是能夠逐年汰換嘛那這個其實也是一個這個\n174762\t185733\t空氣污染一個很大的一個主要原因另外就是說在我們環境部在之前也有在鼓勵工業用的這個鍋爐鍋爐的這個鈦換可能由燃油換為這個燃氣那我想請教就是說像這\n194201\t210209\t這個部分你們目前做的狀況是怎樣我知道說好像是2030年希望就是說全部燃油是不是可以全部換為燃氣那這個狀況你們目前做的這個進度是怎樣 報告委員那個淨零的策略裡面有一項就是所謂的\n211049\t237139\t非電力的製造業這種所謂的鍋爐全部改換成燃氣這個是我們既定的政策那我舉例例如說像我們目前的空瓶從103年的24維克PM2.5降到現在12.8其實如果以中部來看的話最大的貢獻其實有一個當年那個李應元署長當署長的時候他就是花了很多空污費去做這樣的一個改善其實這個成效是非常好的當然我知道\n237699\t256355\t以彰化來說的話還有那我們未來呢應該會在逐步的加強管制的力道希望那個管換的這個機會換的速度可以更快一點點好那我們希望就是說不只是這個中部地區的空污的部分其實不只是只有中火啦或者是六清\n257316\t272554\t也許還有其他的這個這個中融其實中融也是一個很大的這個空氣污染的一個這個非常大的一個主要原因啦對啊那像這部分的話你們針對中融的部分你們有做什麼樣的\n273416\t290335\t要求他們要做什麼樣的這個改善我們目前其實我有請我同仁找到一個例如說因為中榮也算是泛國營事業以目前國營事業113年的排放量跟105年相比台電是減72是最多的那中榮減得比較少大概只有18%\n292257\t309569\t中鋼呢就40%這個排污染的量減少非常的多那其實這個部分呢我們應該給好的要給墾丁更多如果像這樣他跟別的例如說跟中鋼比他18中鋼已經做到40那我們會再督促他能不能做出更有效的一個做法\n309929\t325248\t所以我覺得就是這個空氣汙染的這個大戶其實我覺得你們應該要多用力一些其實不只只有中火其實我剛剛提到的這個中榮的這個部分其實也是一個非常這個空\n326750\t340879\t空氣污染的這個非常嚴重的一個一個廠家所以我們也希望如果說你跟中鋼來比的話中鋼都可以做到這個百分之四十那為什麼中榮沒辦法做到所以我覺得環境部針對這部分應該還要再加強\n342580\t364535\tOK 好另外我想請教就是說去年監察院有針對我們環境部就是有關這個探定價制度就是一直好像沒有一個比較明確的這個制定下來這個探定價一直都沒辦法很明確那另外就是說2050的這個淨零排放第二期的這個目標\n367117\t387214\t好像也這個2025年第二期都快結束了這個目標好像好像還沒辦法去達到那我想請教部長針對這個監察院這邊的一個糾正那你們要怎麼去達成這樣子第二期的目標那另外就是有關碳定價的這個制度你們什麼時候會定下來\n388414\t402080\t因為探聽架其實是今年1月1號開始有探費開始實施所以探聽架已經完成了這個是非常艱鉅的一個挑戰跟委員報告其實監察院並沒有糾正是調查目前其實我們的減量係數我們上一個2022年是跟2005年是減1.77我們最新的數字2023年已經減到4.64我們目前看2024初估可能會有到5到6%左右\n415345\t437530\t那2025就今年我們因為那個要整個事情發生了之後要隔一年多經過所有的數據統計完才能出來所以我們目前推估2025年當然要看今年的景氣好不好目前我們推估應該有機會到8到9%左右所以當然離我們原來的階段改進目標希望到10一點點差距但是我們的確在減量的速度上\n439051\t451544\t部長我想請教就是說你們有關這個2050的淨零我相信這是我們的目標嘛那之前也有特別提到就是說可能也因應這個美國關稅的這個議題那會不會因為這樣子然後有所這個會\n458332\t464739\t這個步驟或者是這個時程是不是會有所做一個調整那另外就是說之前我們是針對500家針對500家去做那我不知道說你們針對這部分你們會不會做一個調整\n473028\t497235\t幫委員第一個是說因為全世界目前沒有一個國家因為關稅或是說美國川普總統有任何的改變所以目前我們堅定的照這個速度走但是其實因為我們也知道我們現在其實要收碳費的企業依照去年排碳量統計現在剩下252家大概400多個工廠而已有稍微變少一點點目前我們是針對例如說有些會受到關稅影響的產業\n499016\t510922\t那我們會給他特別的輔導甚至給他高碳洩漏係數的折扣所以這個目前呢但不過他每年都要提不是說現在就給他大傻逼這樣不是我們有一套的這個節奏所以我們會幫助產業度過這個難關是好那\n514504\t532160\t部長 我想請教 就是說你之前也有特別提到就是說高溫 台灣的高溫的這個議題那你本身也有提到就是說 環境部預計在6月要成立一個高溫對策聯盟那7月預計要推出高溫防護地圖\n533641\t550303\t好那其實我看到這個的時候我想說這個好像跟那個氣象局好像比較有關合作一起合作就環境部跟我們氣象局這邊是一起合作的對還有很多的部會是因為跟委員報告因為以前我們對於這種所謂的氣候變遷的東西\n552225\t577374\t紙上談兵比較多啦我們是希望倒過來拿這個高溫試看看說我們把一次的很熱很熱的那幾天當成像颱風來的樣子一樣然後我們是不是可以實際來演練那演練完之後我們寫成明年的規劃案來執行這些事情好那像這樣子的話你們這個高溫對策聯盟你是有哪幾個單位是一起合作的\n578527\t606277\t跟委員報告我們目前會包括就是政府各相關部會那也會邀集民間企業那也會邀集民間團體希望是說大家一起採取行動是是所以所以如果說從六月份如果你們成立這個高溫對策聯盟或者是七月這個高溫防護地圖那你們會希望就是說相關單位譬如說勞動部啊或者是相關企業在看到這樣子一個高溫\n607177\t633618\t的部分然後可以希望企業怎麼去做或者是對於在室外工作的這些勞工能夠做什麼樣的防護你們是希望能夠透過這樣的一個防護地圖然後能夠給予什麼樣的一個建議或者是希望就譬如說勞動部如果看到這樣子的一個高溫的狀況的話那是不是未來有可能去放這個高溫架或者是\n635279\t651190\t報告委員因為其實這個高溫以戶外的勞工為例他其實是遇到高溫應該有適當的一個休息時間那以我自己是氣象專業過去氣象專業的話我們認為台灣要放高溫假因為只有中午那幾個小時啦其實是有點困難啦\n651730\t674611\t那其實我們會希望保障國人的安全健康甚至說我們這次還有針對弱勢貧窮的族群特別是年長者因為他可能經濟狀況沒辦法那麼好去換那個節能的冷氣那他因此就不敢吹冷氣要省錢反而造成他的很大的健康影響我們希望用大數據的方式把這些族群撈出來給他特別的服務\n675051\t686237\t所以我們其實這次是導過來用行動來找出一些可行的做法然後明年提出一個實際上可行的方案所以你們這個是跨部會的可能就環境部勞動部還有衛福部然後\n692150\t707663\t地方政府也一起進來所以會有一些成效的話或者是跟民眾比較有切身關係或者是你剛剛講的針對長者的部分也許他可以換什麼樣的東西的話這個應該也是在明年度\n708143\t727821\t才會有這樣實際的行動今年我們就是把實際上例如說像一個假設有幾天可能超過38度了那幾天我們就特別來做演練像颱風一樣我們缺什麼缺什麼缺什麼然後誰還做得不夠我們就提出一個檢討方案希望明年有這個經驗實際上來做不然的話我們過去可能都是紙上談兵\n728942\t754578\t好那當然我們也第一次啦應該這個算是第一次政府這樣子投入那這個也是因應我們的氣候韌性所以我們希望說部長以你的專業然後提供給其他的部會或者是地方政府也許可以提供給勞動其實我第一次看到這個我第一個想到可能就是在高溫底下工作的這些\n755499\t776019\t勞工啦所以這個也許對這些勞工是會有一個很大的一個幫助因為其實抗高溫已經變成是一個產業我們就發現台灣很多民間的廠商他們都做出來例如說夏天有一個冷氣衣穿在身上就不會那麼的熱或是說頭盔它有一些可以如果你快要中暑的\n776759\t785764\t他就會給你警告,那樣的一個方式我們希望把這個引進來給那個業界他們可以自己多購買這樣的東西這個也是一個高溫的產業,希望他們可以自己起來\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請部長好 要請部長\n黃委員好 部長剛剛張委員在詢問的我剛剛有上網看了台電每一天的發電量多少那他是燃油燃氣或者是氣墊共生他的比例在網路上面都有所以等一下請張委員其實也可以在網路上面搜尋一下另外當然就是說空污的這個議題對張化的委員來講其實我們都非常的關心尤其是張化\n北邊有這個中火台中火力發電廠那南邊有六清那每一天到底這個火力發電廠或六清這個發電所造成的這個空污的部分那剛剛我也聽到部長講說你們都有在監測那當然這個污染的\n這個源頭有很多啦剛剛有特別提到其實固定污染源和移動污染源那彰化這邊其實我還有一個議題我想請教部長的就是說除了你們有去監測這兩個就是說這\n這個周邊火力發電廠或者是六輕這周邊的這個空污的狀況你們應該是每一天每每時時都在監測嘛對不對時時都在監測那我想請教就是說這幾天從這個上個禮拜這個河山廠停機之後那到現在那個整個中部地區的這個空瓶的部分是不是有明顯的變化\n報告委員這個其實沒有任何的波動但是每天的這個波動會因為氣象的因素的變化有一些差別那目前來看的話我們從5月17號之後到目前為止空品沒有顯著的變化是都是良好等級\n那也有可能是最近這幾天下雨的關係所以在這邊本席也要求就是環境部針對這一部分應該是實時監測如果有一旦沒有下雨然後整個空氣品質狀況是有顯著的差異\n明顯的變差我也希望就是說這個不是只有環境部的這個責任應該能源這邊或者是台電我覺得都應該要大家都要有責任那另外就是說我看到一個另外一個就是說\n在之前我有詢問過我們部長就是說移動污染源的這個部分然後可能很多來自於汽機車那這個汽機車的這個污染其實我們也希望就是說這個老舊的汽機車我們也希望就是能夠逐年汰換嘛那這個其實也是一個這個\n空氣污染一個很大的一個主要原因另外就是說在我們環境部在之前也有在鼓勵工業用的這個鍋爐鍋爐的這個鈦換可能由燃油換為這個燃氣那我想請教就是說像這\n這個部分你們目前做的狀況是怎樣我知道說好像是2030年希望就是說全部燃油是不是可以全部換為燃氣那這個狀況你們目前做的這個進度是怎樣 報告委員那個淨零的策略裡面有一項就是所謂的\n非電力的製造業這種所謂的鍋爐全部改換成燃氣這個是我們既定的政策那我舉例例如說像我們目前的空瓶從103年的24維克PM2.5降到現在12.8其實如果以中部來看的話最大的貢獻其實有一個當年那個李應元署長當署長的時候他就是花了很多空污費去做這樣的一個改善其實這個成效是非常好的當然我知道\n以彰化來說的話還有那我們未來呢應該會在逐步的加強管制的力道希望那個管換的這個機會換的速度可以更快一點點好那我們希望就是說不只是這個中部地區的空污的部分其實不只是只有中火啦或者是六清\n也許還有其他的這個這個中融其實中融也是一個很大的這個空氣污染的一個這個非常大的一個主要原因啦對啊那像這部分的話你們針對中融的部分你們有做什麼樣的\n要求他們要做什麼樣的這個改善我們目前其實我有請我同仁找到一個例如說因為中榮也算是泛國營事業以目前國營事業113年的排放量跟105年相比台電是減72是最多的那中榮減得比較少大概只有18%\n中鋼呢就40%這個排污染的量減少非常的多那其實這個部分呢我們應該給好的要給墾丁更多如果像這樣他跟別的例如說跟中鋼比他18中鋼已經做到40那我們會再督促他能不能做出更有效的一個做法\n所以我覺得就是這個空氣汙染的這個大戶其實我覺得你們應該要多用力一些其實不只只有中火其實我剛剛提到的這個中榮的這個部分其實也是一個非常這個空\n空氣污染的這個非常嚴重的一個一個廠家所以我們也希望如果說你跟中鋼來比的話中鋼都可以做到這個百分之四十那為什麼中榮沒辦法做到所以我覺得環境部針對這部分應該還要再加強\nOK 好另外我想請教就是說去年監察院有針對我們環境部就是有關這個探定價制度就是一直好像沒有一個比較明確的這個制定下來這個探定價一直都沒辦法很明確那另外就是說2050的這個淨零排放第二期的這個目標\n好像也這個2025年第二期都快結束了這個目標好像好像還沒辦法去達到那我想請教部長針對這個監察院這邊的一個糾正那你們要怎麼去達成這樣子第二期的目標那另外就是有關碳定價的這個制度你們什麼時候會定下來\n因為探聽架其實是今年1月1號開始有探費開始實施所以探聽架已經完成了這個是非常艱鉅的一個挑戰跟委員報告其實監察院並沒有糾正是調查目前其實我們的減量係數我們上一個2022年是跟2005年是減1.77我們最新的數字2023年已經減到4.64我們目前看2024初估可能會有到5到6%左右\n那2025就今年我們因為那個要整個事情發生了之後要隔一年多經過所有的數據統計完才能出來所以我們目前推估2025年當然要看今年的景氣好不好目前我們推估應該有機會到8到9%左右所以當然離我們原來的階段改進目標希望到10一點點差距但是我們的確在減量的速度上\n部長我想請教就是說你們有關這個2050的淨零我相信這是我們的目標嘛那之前也有特別提到就是說可能也因應這個美國關稅的這個議題那會不會因為這樣子然後有所這個會\n這個步驟或者是這個時程是不是會有所做一個調整那另外就是說之前我們是針對500家針對500家去做那我不知道說你們針對這部分你們會不會做一個調整\n幫委員第一個是說因為全世界目前沒有一個國家因為關稅或是說美國川普總統有任何的改變所以目前我們堅定的照這個速度走但是其實因為我們也知道我們現在其實要收碳費的企業依照去年排碳量統計現在剩下252家大概400多個工廠而已有稍微變少一點點目前我們是針對例如說有些會受到關稅影響的產業\n那我們會給他特別的輔導甚至給他高碳洩漏係數的折扣所以這個目前呢但不過他每年都要提不是說現在就給他大傻逼這樣不是我們有一套的這個節奏所以我們會幫助產業度過這個難關是好那\n部長 我想請教 就是說你之前也有特別提到就是說高溫 台灣的高溫的這個議題那你本身也有提到就是說 環境部預計在6月要成立一個高溫對策聯盟那7月預計要推出高溫防護地圖\n好那其實我看到這個的時候我想說這個好像跟那個氣象局好像比較有關合作一起合作就環境部跟我們氣象局這邊是一起合作的對還有很多的部會是因為跟委員報告因為以前我們對於這種所謂的氣候變遷的東西\n紙上談兵比較多啦我們是希望倒過來拿這個高溫試看看說我們把一次的很熱很熱的那幾天當成像颱風來的樣子一樣然後我們是不是可以實際來演練那演練完之後我們寫成明年的規劃案來執行這些事情好那像這樣子的話你們這個高溫對策聯盟你是有哪幾個單位是一起合作的\n跟委員報告我們目前會包括就是政府各相關部會那也會邀集民間企業那也會邀集民間團體希望是說大家一起採取行動是是所以所以如果說從六月份如果你們成立這個高溫對策聯盟或者是七月這個高溫防護地圖那你們會希望就是說相關單位譬如說勞動部啊或者是相關企業在看到這樣子一個高溫\n的部分然後可以希望企業怎麼去做或者是對於在室外工作的這些勞工能夠做什麼樣的防護你們是希望能夠透過這樣的一個防護地圖然後能夠給予什麼樣的一個建議或者是希望就譬如說勞動部如果看到這樣子的一個高溫的狀況的話那是不是未來有可能去放這個高溫架或者是\n報告委員因為其實這個高溫以戶外的勞工為例他其實是遇到高溫應該有適當的一個休息時間那以我自己是氣象專業過去氣象專業的話我們認為台灣要放高溫假因為只有中午那幾個小時啦其實是有點困難啦\n那其實我們會希望保障國人的安全健康甚至說我們這次還有針對弱勢貧窮的族群特別是年長者因為他可能經濟狀況沒辦法那麼好去換那個節能的冷氣那他因此就不敢吹冷氣要省錢反而造成他的很大的健康影響我們希望用大數據的方式把這些族群撈出來給他特別的服務\n所以我們其實這次是導過來用行動來找出一些可行的做法然後明年提出一個實際上可行的方案所以你們這個是跨部會的可能就環境部勞動部還有衛福部然後\n地方政府也一起進來所以會有一些成效的話或者是跟民眾比較有切身關係或者是你剛剛講的針對長者的部分也許他可以換什麼樣的東西的話這個應該也是在明年度\n才會有這樣實際的行動今年我們就是把實際上例如說像一個假設有幾天可能超過38度了那幾天我們就特別來做演練像颱風一樣我們缺什麼缺什麼缺什麼然後誰還做得不夠我們就提出一個檢討方案希望明年有這個經驗實際上來做不然的話我們過去可能都是紙上談兵\n好那當然我們也第一次啦應該這個算是第一次政府這樣子投入那這個也是因應我們的氣候韌性所以我們希望說部長以你的專業然後提供給其他的部會或者是地方政府也許可以提供給勞動其實我第一次看到這個我第一個想到可能就是在高溫底下工作的這些\n勞工啦所以這個也許對這些勞工是會有一個很大的一個幫助因為其實抗高溫已經變成是一個產業我們就發現台灣很多民間的廠商他們都做出來例如說夏天有一個冷氣衣穿在身上就不會那麼的熱或是說頭盔它有一些可以如果你快要中暑的\n他就會給你警告,那樣的一個方式我們希望把這個引進來給那個業界他們可以自己多購買這樣的東西這個也是一個高溫的產業,希望他們可以自己起來\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.173 --> 00:08.095\n謝謝主席我們請部長好要請部長\n\n00:13.227 --> 00:39.748\n黃委員好部長剛剛張委員在詢問的我剛剛有上網看了台電每一天的發電量多少那他是燃油燃氣或者是氣墊共生他的比例在網路上面都有所以等一下請張委員其實也可以在網路上面搜尋一下另外當然就是說空污的這個議題對張化的委員來講其實我們都非常的關心尤其是張化\n\n00:40.789 --> 00:54.579\n北邊有這個中火台中火力發電廠那南邊有六清那每一天到底這個火力發電廠或六清這個發電所造成的這個空污的部分那剛剛我也聽到部長講說你們都有在監測那當然這個污染的\n\n00:59.922 --> 01:07.168\n這個源頭有很多啦剛剛有特別提到其實固定污染源和移動污染源那彰化這邊其實我還有一個議題我想請教部長的就是說除了你們有去監測這兩個就是說這\n\n01:15.954 --> 01:39.747\n這個周邊火力發電廠或者是六輕這周邊的這個空污的狀況你們應該是每一天每每時時都在監測嘛對不對時時都在監測那我想請教就是說這幾天從這個上個禮拜這個河山廠停機之後那到現在那個整個中部地區的這個空瓶的部分是不是有明顯的變化\n\n01:41.096 --> 01:56.299\n報告委員這個其實沒有任何的波動但是每天的這個波動會因為氣象的因素的變化有一些差別那目前來看的話我們從5月17號之後到目前為止空品沒有顯著的變化是都是良好等級\n\n01:57.880 --> 02:13.365\n那也有可能是最近這幾天下雨的關係所以在這邊本席也要求就是環境部針對這一部分應該是實時監測如果有一旦沒有下雨然後整個空氣品質狀況是有顯著的差異\n\n02:17.566 --> 02:33.203\n明顯的變差我也希望就是說這個不是只有環境部的這個責任應該能源這邊或者是台電我覺得都應該要大家都要有責任那另外就是說我看到一個另外一個就是說\n\n02:34.304 --> 02:50.858\n在之前我有詢問過我們部長就是說移動污染源的這個部分然後可能很多來自於汽機車那這個汽機車的這個污染其實我們也希望就是說這個老舊的汽機車我們也希望就是能夠逐年汰換嘛那這個其實也是一個這個\n\n02:54.762 --> 03:05.733\n空氣污染一個很大的一個主要原因另外就是說在我們環境部在之前也有在鼓勵工業用的這個鍋爐鍋爐的這個鈦換可能由燃油換為這個燃氣那我想請教就是說像這\n\n03:14.201 --> 03:30.209\n這個部分你們目前做的狀況是怎樣我知道說好像是2030年希望就是說全部燃油是不是可以全部換為燃氣那這個狀況你們目前做的這個進度是怎樣報告委員那個淨零的策略裡面有一項就是所謂的\n\n03:31.049 --> 03:57.139\n非電力的製造業這種所謂的鍋爐全部改換成燃氣這個是我們既定的政策那我舉例例如說像我們目前的空瓶從103年的24維克PM2.5降到現在12.8其實如果以中部來看的話最大的貢獻其實有一個當年那個李應元署長當署長的時候他就是花了很多空污費去做這樣的一個改善其實這個成效是非常好的當然我知道\n\n03:57.699 --> 04:16.355\n以彰化來說的話還有那我們未來呢應該會在逐步的加強管制的力道希望那個管換的這個機會換的速度可以更快一點點好那我們希望就是說不只是這個中部地區的空污的部分其實不只是只有中火啦或者是六清\n\n04:17.316 --> 04:32.554\n也許還有其他的這個這個中融其實中融也是一個很大的這個空氣污染的一個這個非常大的一個主要原因啦對啊那像這部分的話你們針對中融的部分你們有做什麼樣的\n\n04:33.416 --> 04:50.335\n要求他們要做什麼樣的這個改善我們目前其實我有請我同仁找到一個例如說因為中榮也算是泛國營事業以目前國營事業113年的排放量跟105年相比台電是減72是最多的那中榮減得比較少大概只有18%\n\n04:52.257 --> 05:09.569\n中鋼呢就40%這個排污染的量減少非常的多那其實這個部分呢我們應該給好的要給墾丁更多如果像這樣他跟別的例如說跟中鋼比他18中鋼已經做到40那我們會再督促他能不能做出更有效的一個做法\n\n05:09.929 --> 05:25.248\n所以我覺得就是這個空氣汙染的這個大戶其實我覺得你們應該要多用力一些其實不只只有中火其實我剛剛提到的這個中榮的這個部分其實也是一個非常這個空\n\n05:26.750 --> 05:40.879\n空氣污染的這個非常嚴重的一個一個廠家所以我們也希望如果說你跟中鋼來比的話中鋼都可以做到這個百分之四十那為什麼中榮沒辦法做到所以我覺得環境部針對這部分應該還要再加強\n\n05:42.580 --> 06:04.535\nOK好另外我想請教就是說去年監察院有針對我們環境部就是有關這個探定價制度就是一直好像沒有一個比較明確的這個制定下來這個探定價一直都沒辦法很明確那另外就是說2050的這個淨零排放第二期的這個目標\n\n06:07.117 --> 06:27.214\n好像也這個2025年第二期都快結束了這個目標好像好像還沒辦法去達到那我想請教部長針對這個監察院這邊的一個糾正那你們要怎麼去達成這樣子第二期的目標那另外就是有關碳定價的這個制度你們什麼時候會定下來\n\n06:28.414 --> 06:42.080\n因為探聽架其實是今年1月1號開始有探費開始實施所以探聽架已經完成了這個是非常艱鉅的一個挑戰跟委員報告其實監察院並沒有糾正是調查目前其實我們的減量係數我們上一個2022年是跟2005年是減1.77我們最新的數字2023年已經減到4.64我們目前看2024初估可能會有到5到6%左右\n\n06:55.345 --> 07:17.530\n那2025就今年我們因為那個要整個事情發生了之後要隔一年多經過所有的數據統計完才能出來所以我們目前推估2025年當然要看今年的景氣好不好目前我們推估應該有機會到8到9%左右所以當然離我們原來的階段改進目標希望到10一點點差距但是我們的確在減量的速度上\n\n07:19.051 --> 07:31.544\n部長我想請教就是說你們有關這個2050的淨零我相信這是我們的目標嘛那之前也有特別提到就是說可能也因應這個美國關稅的這個議題那會不會因為這樣子然後有所這個會\n\n07:38.332 --> 07:44.739\n這個步驟或者是這個時程是不是會有所做一個調整那另外就是說之前我們是針對500家針對500家去做那我不知道說你們針對這部分你們會不會做一個調整\n\n07:53.028 --> 08:17.235\n幫委員第一個是說因為全世界目前沒有一個國家因為關稅或是說美國川普總統有任何的改變所以目前我們堅定的照這個速度走但是其實因為我們也知道我們現在其實要收碳費的企業依照去年排碳量統計現在剩下252家大概400多個工廠而已有稍微變少一點點目前我們是針對例如說有些會受到關稅影響的產業\n\n08:19.016 --> 08:30.922\n那我們會給他特別的輔導甚至給他高碳洩漏係數的折扣所以這個目前呢但不過他每年都要提不是說現在就給他大傻逼這樣不是我們有一套的這個節奏所以我們會幫助產業度過這個難關是好那\n\n08:34.504 --> 08:52.160\n部長我想請教就是說你之前也有特別提到就是說高溫台灣的高溫的這個議題那你本身也有提到就是說環境部預計在6月要成立一個高溫對策聯盟那7月預計要推出高溫防護地圖\n\n08:53.641 --> 09:10.303\n好那其實我看到這個的時候我想說這個好像跟那個氣象局好像比較有關合作一起合作就環境部跟我們氣象局這邊是一起合作的對還有很多的部會是因為跟委員報告因為以前我們對於這種所謂的氣候變遷的東西\n\n09:12.225 --> 09:37.374\n紙上談兵比較多啦我們是希望倒過來拿這個高溫試看看說我們把一次的很熱很熱的那幾天當成像颱風來的樣子一樣然後我們是不是可以實際來演練那演練完之後我們寫成明年的規劃案來執行這些事情好那像這樣子的話你們這個高溫對策聯盟你是有哪幾個單位是一起合作的\n\n09:38.527 --> 10:06.277\n跟委員報告我們目前會包括就是政府各相關部會那也會邀集民間企業那也會邀集民間團體希望是說大家一起採取行動是是所以所以如果說從六月份如果你們成立這個高溫對策聯盟或者是七月這個高溫防護地圖那你們會希望就是說相關單位譬如說勞動部啊或者是相關企業在看到這樣子一個高溫\n\n10:07.177 --> 10:33.618\n的部分然後可以希望企業怎麼去做或者是對於在室外工作的這些勞工能夠做什麼樣的防護你們是希望能夠透過這樣的一個防護地圖然後能夠給予什麼樣的一個建議或者是希望就譬如說勞動部如果看到這樣子的一個高溫的狀況的話那是不是未來有可能去放這個高溫架或者是\n\n10:35.279 --> 10:51.190\n報告委員因為其實這個高溫以戶外的勞工為例他其實是遇到高溫應該有適當的一個休息時間那以我自己是氣象專業過去氣象專業的話我們認為台灣要放高溫假因為只有中午那幾個小時啦其實是有點困難啦\n\n10:51.730 --> 11:14.611\n那其實我們會希望保障國人的安全健康甚至說我們這次還有針對弱勢貧窮的族群特別是年長者因為他可能經濟狀況沒辦法那麼好去換那個節能的冷氣那他因此就不敢吹冷氣要省錢反而造成他的很大的健康影響我們希望用大數據的方式把這些族群撈出來給他特別的服務\n\n11:15.051 --> 11:26.237\n所以我們其實這次是導過來用行動來找出一些可行的做法然後明年提出一個實際上可行的方案所以你們這個是跨部會的可能就環境部勞動部還有衛福部然後\n\n11:32.150 --> 11:47.663\n地方政府也一起進來所以會有一些成效的話或者是跟民眾比較有切身關係或者是你剛剛講的針對長者的部分也許他可以換什麼樣的東西的話這個應該也是在明年度\n\n11:48.143 --> 12:07.821\n才會有這樣實際的行動今年我們就是把實際上例如說像一個假設有幾天可能超過38度了那幾天我們就特別來做演練像颱風一樣我們缺什麼缺什麼缺什麼然後誰還做得不夠我們就提出一個檢討方案希望明年有這個經驗實際上來做不然的話我們過去可能都是紙上談兵\n\n12:08.942 --> 12:34.578\n好那當然我們也第一次啦應該這個算是第一次政府這樣子投入那這個也是因應我們的氣候韌性所以我們希望說部長以你的專業然後提供給其他的部會或者是地方政府也許可以提供給勞動其實我第一次看到這個我第一個想到可能就是在高溫底下工作的這些\n\n12:35.499 --> 12:56.019\n勞工啦所以這個也許對這些勞工是會有一個很大的一個幫助因為其實抗高溫已經變成是一個產業我們就發現台灣很多民間的廠商他們都做出來例如說夏天有一個冷氣衣穿在身上就不會那麼的熱或是說頭盔它有一些可以如果你快要中暑的\n\n12:56.759 --> 13:05.764\n他就會給你警告,那樣的一個方式我們希望把這個引進來給那個業界他們可以自己多購買這樣的東西這個也是一個高溫的產業,希望他們可以自己起來\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.173,"end":8.095,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請部長好 要請部長"},{"start":13.227,"end":39.748,"text":"黃委員好 部長剛剛張委員在詢問的我剛剛有上網看了台電每一天的發電量多少那他是燃油燃氣或者是氣墊共生他的比例在網路上面都有所以等一下請張委員其實也可以在網路上面搜尋一下另外當然就是說空污的這個議題對張化的委員來講其實我們都非常的關心尤其是張化"},{"start":40.789,"end":54.579,"text":"北邊有這個中火台中火力發電廠那南邊有六清那每一天到底這個火力發電廠或六清這個發電所造成的這個空污的部分那剛剛我也聽到部長講說你們都有在監測那當然這個污染的"},{"start":59.922,"end":67.168,"text":"這個源頭有很多啦剛剛有特別提到其實固定污染源和移動污染源那彰化這邊其實我還有一個議題我想請教部長的就是說除了你們有去監測這兩個就是說這"},{"start":75.954,"end":99.747,"text":"這個周邊火力發電廠或者是六輕這周邊的這個空污的狀況你們應該是每一天每每時時都在監測嘛對不對時時都在監測那我想請教就是說這幾天從這個上個禮拜這個河山廠停機之後那到現在那個整個中部地區的這個空瓶的部分是不是有明顯的變化"},{"start":101.096,"end":116.299,"text":"報告委員這個其實沒有任何的波動但是每天的這個波動會因為氣象的因素的變化有一些差別那目前來看的話我們從5月17號之後到目前為止空品沒有顯著的變化是都是良好等級"},{"start":117.88,"end":133.365,"text":"那也有可能是最近這幾天下雨的關係所以在這邊本席也要求就是環境部針對這一部分應該是實時監測如果有一旦沒有下雨然後整個空氣品質狀況是有顯著的差異"},{"start":137.566,"end":153.203,"text":"明顯的變差我也希望就是說這個不是只有環境部的這個責任應該能源這邊或者是台電我覺得都應該要大家都要有責任那另外就是說我看到一個另外一個就是說"},{"start":154.304,"end":170.858,"text":"在之前我有詢問過我們部長就是說移動污染源的這個部分然後可能很多來自於汽機車那這個汽機車的這個污染其實我們也希望就是說這個老舊的汽機車我們也希望就是能夠逐年汰換嘛那這個其實也是一個這個"},{"start":174.762,"end":185.733,"text":"空氣污染一個很大的一個主要原因另外就是說在我們環境部在之前也有在鼓勵工業用的這個鍋爐鍋爐的這個鈦換可能由燃油換為這個燃氣那我想請教就是說像這"},{"start":194.201,"end":210.209,"text":"這個部分你們目前做的狀況是怎樣我知道說好像是2030年希望就是說全部燃油是不是可以全部換為燃氣那這個狀況你們目前做的這個進度是怎樣 報告委員那個淨零的策略裡面有一項就是所謂的"},{"start":211.049,"end":237.139,"text":"非電力的製造業這種所謂的鍋爐全部改換成燃氣這個是我們既定的政策那我舉例例如說像我們目前的空瓶從103年的24維克PM2.5降到現在12.8其實如果以中部來看的話最大的貢獻其實有一個當年那個李應元署長當署長的時候他就是花了很多空污費去做這樣的一個改善其實這個成效是非常好的當然我知道"},{"start":237.699,"end":256.355,"text":"以彰化來說的話還有那我們未來呢應該會在逐步的加強管制的力道希望那個管換的這個機會換的速度可以更快一點點好那我們希望就是說不只是這個中部地區的空污的部分其實不只是只有中火啦或者是六清"},{"start":257.316,"end":272.554,"text":"也許還有其他的這個這個中融其實中融也是一個很大的這個空氣污染的一個這個非常大的一個主要原因啦對啊那像這部分的話你們針對中融的部分你們有做什麼樣的"},{"start":273.416,"end":290.335,"text":"要求他們要做什麼樣的這個改善我們目前其實我有請我同仁找到一個例如說因為中榮也算是泛國營事業以目前國營事業113年的排放量跟105年相比台電是減72是最多的那中榮減得比較少大概只有18%"},{"start":292.257,"end":309.569,"text":"中鋼呢就40%這個排污染的量減少非常的多那其實這個部分呢我們應該給好的要給墾丁更多如果像這樣他跟別的例如說跟中鋼比他18中鋼已經做到40那我們會再督促他能不能做出更有效的一個做法"},{"start":309.929,"end":325.248,"text":"所以我覺得就是這個空氣汙染的這個大戶其實我覺得你們應該要多用力一些其實不只只有中火其實我剛剛提到的這個中榮的這個部分其實也是一個非常這個空"},{"start":326.75,"end":340.879,"text":"空氣污染的這個非常嚴重的一個一個廠家所以我們也希望如果說你跟中鋼來比的話中鋼都可以做到這個百分之四十那為什麼中榮沒辦法做到所以我覺得環境部針對這部分應該還要再加強"},{"start":342.58,"end":364.535,"text":"OK 好另外我想請教就是說去年監察院有針對我們環境部就是有關這個探定價制度就是一直好像沒有一個比較明確的這個制定下來這個探定價一直都沒辦法很明確那另外就是說2050的這個淨零排放第二期的這個目標"},{"start":367.117,"end":387.214,"text":"好像也這個2025年第二期都快結束了這個目標好像好像還沒辦法去達到那我想請教部長針對這個監察院這邊的一個糾正那你們要怎麼去達成這樣子第二期的目標那另外就是有關碳定價的這個制度你們什麼時候會定下來"},{"start":388.414,"end":402.08,"text":"因為探聽架其實是今年1月1號開始有探費開始實施所以探聽架已經完成了這個是非常艱鉅的一個挑戰跟委員報告其實監察院並沒有糾正是調查目前其實我們的減量係數我們上一個2022年是跟2005年是減1.77我們最新的數字2023年已經減到4.64我們目前看2024初估可能會有到5到6%左右"},{"start":415.345,"end":437.53,"text":"那2025就今年我們因為那個要整個事情發生了之後要隔一年多經過所有的數據統計完才能出來所以我們目前推估2025年當然要看今年的景氣好不好目前我們推估應該有機會到8到9%左右所以當然離我們原來的階段改進目標希望到10一點點差距但是我們的確在減量的速度上"},{"start":439.051,"end":451.544,"text":"部長我想請教就是說你們有關這個2050的淨零我相信這是我們的目標嘛那之前也有特別提到就是說可能也因應這個美國關稅的這個議題那會不會因為這樣子然後有所這個會"},{"start":458.332,"end":464.739,"text":"這個步驟或者是這個時程是不是會有所做一個調整那另外就是說之前我們是針對500家針對500家去做那我不知道說你們針對這部分你們會不會做一個調整"},{"start":473.028,"end":497.235,"text":"幫委員第一個是說因為全世界目前沒有一個國家因為關稅或是說美國川普總統有任何的改變所以目前我們堅定的照這個速度走但是其實因為我們也知道我們現在其實要收碳費的企業依照去年排碳量統計現在剩下252家大概400多個工廠而已有稍微變少一點點目前我們是針對例如說有些會受到關稅影響的產業"},{"start":499.016,"end":510.922,"text":"那我們會給他特別的輔導甚至給他高碳洩漏係數的折扣所以這個目前呢但不過他每年都要提不是說現在就給他大傻逼這樣不是我們有一套的這個節奏所以我們會幫助產業度過這個難關是好那"},{"start":514.504,"end":532.16,"text":"部長 我想請教 就是說你之前也有特別提到就是說高溫 台灣的高溫的這個議題那你本身也有提到就是說 環境部預計在6月要成立一個高溫對策聯盟那7月預計要推出高溫防護地圖"},{"start":533.641,"end":550.303,"text":"好那其實我看到這個的時候我想說這個好像跟那個氣象局好像比較有關合作一起合作就環境部跟我們氣象局這邊是一起合作的對還有很多的部會是因為跟委員報告因為以前我們對於這種所謂的氣候變遷的東西"},{"start":552.225,"end":577.374,"text":"紙上談兵比較多啦我們是希望倒過來拿這個高溫試看看說我們把一次的很熱很熱的那幾天當成像颱風來的樣子一樣然後我們是不是可以實際來演練那演練完之後我們寫成明年的規劃案來執行這些事情好那像這樣子的話你們這個高溫對策聯盟你是有哪幾個單位是一起合作的"},{"start":578.527,"end":606.277,"text":"跟委員報告我們目前會包括就是政府各相關部會那也會邀集民間企業那也會邀集民間團體希望是說大家一起採取行動是是所以所以如果說從六月份如果你們成立這個高溫對策聯盟或者是七月這個高溫防護地圖那你們會希望就是說相關單位譬如說勞動部啊或者是相關企業在看到這樣子一個高溫"},{"start":607.177,"end":633.618,"text":"的部分然後可以希望企業怎麼去做或者是對於在室外工作的這些勞工能夠做什麼樣的防護你們是希望能夠透過這樣的一個防護地圖然後能夠給予什麼樣的一個建議或者是希望就譬如說勞動部如果看到這樣子的一個高溫的狀況的話那是不是未來有可能去放這個高溫架或者是"},{"start":635.279,"end":651.19,"text":"報告委員因為其實這個高溫以戶外的勞工為例他其實是遇到高溫應該有適當的一個休息時間那以我自己是氣象專業過去氣象專業的話我們認為台灣要放高溫假因為只有中午那幾個小時啦其實是有點困難啦"},{"start":651.73,"end":674.611,"text":"那其實我們會希望保障國人的安全健康甚至說我們這次還有針對弱勢貧窮的族群特別是年長者因為他可能經濟狀況沒辦法那麼好去換那個節能的冷氣那他因此就不敢吹冷氣要省錢反而造成他的很大的健康影響我們希望用大數據的方式把這些族群撈出來給他特別的服務"},{"start":675.051,"end":686.237,"text":"所以我們其實這次是導過來用行動來找出一些可行的做法然後明年提出一個實際上可行的方案所以你們這個是跨部會的可能就環境部勞動部還有衛福部然後"},{"start":692.15,"end":707.663,"text":"地方政府也一起進來所以會有一些成效的話或者是跟民眾比較有切身關係或者是你剛剛講的針對長者的部分也許他可以換什麼樣的東西的話這個應該也是在明年度"},{"start":708.143,"end":727.821,"text":"才會有這樣實際的行動今年我們就是把實際上例如說像一個假設有幾天可能超過38度了那幾天我們就特別來做演練像颱風一樣我們缺什麼缺什麼缺什麼然後誰還做得不夠我們就提出一個檢討方案希望明年有這個經驗實際上來做不然的話我們過去可能都是紙上談兵"},{"start":728.942,"end":754.578,"text":"好那當然我們也第一次啦應該這個算是第一次政府這樣子投入那這個也是因應我們的氣候韌性所以我們希望說部長以你的專業然後提供給其他的部會或者是地方政府也許可以提供給勞動其實我第一次看到這個我第一個想到可能就是在高溫底下工作的這些"},{"start":755.499,"end":776.019,"text":"勞工啦所以這個也許對這些勞工是會有一個很大的一個幫助因為其實抗高溫已經變成是一個產業我們就發現台灣很多民間的廠商他們都做出來例如說夏天有一個冷氣衣穿在身上就不會那麼的熱或是說頭盔它有一些可以如果你快要中暑的"},{"start":776.759,"end":785.764,"text":"他就會給你警告,那樣的一個方式我們希望把這個引進來給那個業界他們可以自己多購買這樣的東西這個也是一個高溫的產業,希望他們可以自己起來"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":812,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（11時21分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長，剛才張委員在詢問的，我剛剛有上網看台電每一天的發電量是多少，不管是燃油、燃氣或者是汽電共生，它的比例在網路上面都有，所以等一下請張委員其實也可以在網路上面搜尋一下。另外，當然空污的議題對彰化的委員來講，我們都非常的關心，尤其是彰化北邊有中火──台中火力發電廠，南邊有六輕，每一天火力發電廠或六輕發電所造成空污的部分，剛剛我也聽到部長講說你們都有在監測。當然有關污染的源頭有很多，剛剛有特別提到固定污染源、移動污染源，在彰化這邊其實還有一個議題，我想請教部長，除了你們有去監測這兩個火力發電廠或者是六輕周邊的空污狀況，你們應該是每一天時時都在監測，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：是、是。"],["黃委員秀芳：時時都在監測。我想請教，這幾天從上個禮拜核三廠停機之後，到現在整個中部地區空品的部分是不是有明顯的變化？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個其實沒有任何的波動，但是每天的波動會因為氣象因素的變化有一些差別，目前來看的話，我們從5月17號之後到目前為止，空品沒有顯著的變化。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。"],["彭部長啓明：都是良好等級。"],["黃委員秀芳：是、好，也有可能是最近這幾天下雨……"],["彭部長啓明：天氣比較好……"],["黃委員秀芳：下雨的關係嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以在這邊本席也要求環境部針對這一部分應該是時時監測，一旦沒有下雨，整個空氣品質狀況有顯著差異、明顯變差，我也希望……這個不是只有環境部的責任，不管是能源這邊或者是台電，我覺得大家都應該要有責任。我看到另外一個問題，在之前我有詢問過我們部長有關移動污染源的部分，可能很多來自於汽機車，有關汽機車的污染，我們也希望老舊的汽機車能夠逐年汰換，其實也是空氣污染一個很大的主要原因。另外，環境部在之前也有鼓勵工業用鍋爐的汰換，可能由燃油換為燃氣，我想請教像這一部分，你們目前做的狀況是怎樣？我知道好像是希望2030年將燃油全部換為燃氣，關於這個狀況，你們目前做的進度是怎樣？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，淨零策略裡面有一項就是所謂的非電力製造業的鍋爐全部改換成燃氣，這是我們既定的政策，我舉例，例如目前的空品從103年24微克PM2.5降到現在12.8，如果以中部來看的話，最大的貢獻其實是當年李應元當署長時，他花了很多空污費去做這樣的改善，這個成效是非常好的。當然，我知道以彰化來說的話還有，我們未來應該會再逐步加強管制的力道，希望換的機會及速度可以更快一點點。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，中部地區的空污部分其實不是只有中火或者六輕，也許還有其他像中龍，其實中龍也是一個很大的空氣污染主要原因。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["黃委員秀芳：像這部分的話，你們針對中龍有要求他們要做什麼樣的改善？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，目前其實我有請同仁找到一個資料，因為中龍也算是泛國營事業。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。"],["彭部長啓明：以目前國營事業113年排放量和105年相比，台電減72%是最多的，中龍減得較少，大概只有18%，中鋼有40%，污染的量減少非常多，其實我們對於好的部分應該要給予更多肯定。如果像這樣，它跟別的相比，例如中鋼，它是18%，中鋼已經做到40%，我們會再督促它能不能做出更有效的作法。"],["黃委員秀芳：是，所以對於空氣污染的大戶，其實你們應該要多用力一些，不是只有中火，其實我剛剛提到的中龍這部分也是一個空氣污染非常嚴重的廠家，所以我們也希望，如果是跟中鋼來比的話，中鋼都可以做到40%，為什麼中龍沒辦法做到？所以環境部針對這部分應該還要再加強，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：OK！好。"],["黃委員秀芳：另外，去年監察院有針對環境部碳定價制度一直好像沒有明確地制定下來，就是一直都沒辦法很明確，另外就是2050淨零排放第2期的目標，現在是2025年，第2期都快結束了，這個目標好像還沒辦法達到，我想請教部長，針對監察院的糾正，你們要怎麼去達成第2期的目標？另外就是碳定價的制度，你們什麼時候會定下來？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為碳定價其實是今年1月1號碳費開始實施，所以碳定價已經完成，這是一個非常艱鉅的挑戰，也跟委員報告，其實監察院並沒有糾正，是調查，目前我們的減量係數，上一個在2022年跟2005年相比減了1.77，我們最新的數字在2023年已經減到4.64，我們目前看到2024，初估可能會有到5到6%左右，2025就是今年，因為要整個事情發生之後隔一年多，經由所有的數據統計完才能出來，所以我們目前推估，當然要看今年的景氣好不好，目前我們推估2025年應該有機會到8至9%左右，當然離原來的階段管制目標希望到10%有一點點差距，但是我們的確在減量的速度上。"],["黃委員秀芳：是，部長，有關2050的淨零，我相信這是我們的目標，之前有特別提到可能也因應美國關稅的議題，會不會因為這樣子而對於步驟或時程有所調整？另外，之前我們是針對500家去做，不知道對這部分你們會不會做一個調整？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一個，全世界目前沒有一個國家因為關稅或是美國川普總統有任何的改變，所以目前我們堅定的……"],["黃委員秀芳：還是照這樣子的速度在執行？"],["彭部長啓明：還是照這個速度走，但是因為我們也知道現在要收碳費的企業依照去年排碳量統計，其實現在剩下252家，大概四百多個工廠而已，有稍微變少一點點。目前我們是針對例如有些會受到關稅影響的產業，我們會給予特別的輔導，甚至給予高碳洩漏係數的折扣，不過它每年都要提，不是現在就大撒幣，我們有一套節奏，所以我們會幫助產業渡過這個難關。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長，我想請教，你之前也有特別提到臺灣高溫的議題，環境部預計在6月要成立一個高溫對策聯盟，7月要推出高溫防護地圖，其實我看到的時候，覺得這個好像跟氣象署比較有關。"],["彭部長啓明：一起合作。"],["黃委員秀芳：就是環境部跟氣象署是一起合作的。"],["彭部長啓明：對，還有很多的部會。跟委員報告，我們以前對於所謂氣候變遷的東西，紙上談兵比較多，我們是希望倒過來，拿高溫的議題試看看，我們把一次很熱、很熱的那幾天當成像颱風來的樣子實際來演練，演練完之後我們寫成明年的規劃案來執行這些事情。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。像這樣子的話，你們這個高溫對策聯盟有哪幾個單位一起合作？"],["蔡署長玲儀：跟委員報告，目前會包括政府各相關部會，也會邀集民間企業、民間團體，希望大家一起採取行動。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。所以6月份成立高溫對策聯盟或者7月推動高溫防護地圖之後，你們希望相關單位譬如勞動部或相關企業看到高溫的部分可以怎麼去做？或者是對於在室外工作的勞工能夠做什麼樣的防護？你們希望透過這樣的防護地圖，能夠給予什麼樣的建議？或者譬如希望勞動部如果看到高溫的狀況的話，是不是未來有可能放高溫假或者……"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實以戶外的勞工為例，當他們遇到高溫的時候應該有適當的休息時間。以我自己過去的氣象專業來講，我們認為臺灣要放高溫假，因為只有中午那幾個小時其實是有點困難，我們會希望保障國人的安全、健康。甚至我們這次還有針對弱勢、貧窮的族群，特別是年長者，因為他們可能經濟狀況沒那麼好，沒辦法換節能的冷氣，因此為了省錢就不敢吹冷氣，反而造成很大的健康影響，我們希望用大數據的方式把這些族群撈出來，給他們特別的服務。所以我們這次是倒過來，用行動找出可行的做法，在明年提出一個實際上可行的方案。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以你們這個是跨部會的？"],["彭部長啓明：對，跨部會。"],["黃委員秀芳：可能就是環境部……"],["彭部長啓明：勞動部、還有衛福部，然後地方政府也一起都有進來。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以會有一些成效的話，或者跟民眾比較有切身關係，或者是你剛剛講的針對長者的部分，也許他們可以換什麼樣的東西的話，應該也是在明年度才會有實際的行動？"],["彭部長啓明：對，今年我們就是把實際上……假設有幾天可能超過38度了，我們就在那幾天特別做演練，像颱風一樣，找到我們缺什麼、缺什麼、缺什麼，還有誰還做得不夠，我們就提出一個檢討方案，希望明年有這個經驗實際上來做，不然的話，我們過去可能都是紙上談兵。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。當然，這個應該算是第一次政府這樣子投入，也是因應氣候韌性，所以我們希望部長以你的專業提供給其他的部會或者地方政府，也許可以提供給勞動……其實我第一次看到這個，第一個想到的就是在高溫底下工作的勞工，也許對這些勞工會有很大的幫助。"],["彭部長啓明：對。其實抗高溫已經變成是一個產業，我們發現臺灣很多民間的廠商做出來一些產品，例如夏天有冷氣衣穿在身上就不會那麼熱，或是如果快要中暑，頭上的頭盔就會發出警告，我們希望引進這樣的方式讓業界可以多購買這樣的東西，這個也是一個高溫的產業，希望他們可以自己起來。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝部長。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["主席（劉委員建國）：謝謝。","接下來請林淑芬委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":264,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-13","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","張啓楷","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳瑩","葉元之","楊曜","廖偉翔","涂權吉"],"page_start":183,"meetingDate":["2025-05-26"],"gazette_id":"1145302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145302_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算決議有關環境部主管預算凍結報告案142案(含報告事項134案及討論\n事項8案)","agenda_id":"1145302_00003"}}}