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00:00:04,471\n部長好我們來看看這個解凍案在你的書面報告第16案各項教育推廣我們是凍結了一千萬那這個項目可以說是包羅萬象涉及國際跟兩岸的交流那我想部長在五月中的時候呢對於這個兩岸的交流呢你的說法是不鼓勵前往道路交流甚至是禁止反對\n\n2\n00:00:22,199 --> 00:00:36,708\n然後後來呢因為這件說法引起太多的一個爭議那部長又開始特別有不同的一個說法那我下次很直白的問部長今天暑假如果學生想要參加的話可不可以參加兩岸交流的活動教育交流活動教育交流活動基本上依法我是\n\n3\n00:00:42,967 --> 00:00:57,246\n不能反對的但是我也必須要講為什麼我不支持不贊成不鼓勵主要就是因為來自於陸委會已經在去年就頒布兩岸交流是一個陳設警戒的一個狀態\n\n4\n00:00:58,447 --> 00:01:09,292\n基於教育部我們要維護我們老師跟學生因為他的風險是增加的所以我才會表達說我們不鼓勵好那我們就來看看風險因為也有很多大學教授他不曉得教育部的底線在哪裡他甚至很怕誤踩地雷所以讓他們的補助款因為被扣除所以呢我們當然要在這個時候呢就要來問一下教育部的態度到底是如何其實我說實在的部長以前杜正勝部長大家都認為他很綠\n\n5\n00:01:26,539 --> 00:01:46,751\n可是呢他其實也沒有在任何的言語公開談話當中去禁止兩岸的交流那現在情勢當然不一樣所以我真的還是要問一下部長你們現在有國際級兩岸教育司如果部長不鼓勵不樂見甚至要禁止的話我說實在的你真的是可以把兩岸教育司這樣名字好好改一下甚至對於兩岸教育科的這部分\n\n6\n00:01:49,332 --> 00:01:50,653\n有三所北京理工北京航空还有哈尔滨工都是跟你们的中山大学室友姐妹校的\n\n7\n00:02:19,833 --> 00:02:43,155\n那部长我就想说了这也不是最近才发生从你当校长的时候呢你有觉得你们中山的这个关键技术有被窃取或者你觉得学生的权益跟彼此互相交流你觉得这些科研结果有因为这样子或甚至是你跟对岸地结界面上有被统战的这样的疑虑吗你在当校长的时候你有这样的疑虑过吗\n\n8\n00:02:43,795 --> 00:02:46,738\n謝謝委員我想委員剛才也特別提到兩岸的關係確實沒關係你可以回答校長正義要校長跟正義要部長的差別因為兩岸包含賴總統在去年就職的時候健康有序的交流\n\n9\n00:03:01,514 --> 00:03:15,026\n所以我們也積極在考慮有更多的交流但是因為隨著兩岸的一個情勢它真的跟你學校不太一樣所以啊你們中山大學的網站這三個學校被我們所禁止的學校還在你們裡面過去沒有這樣的一個兩岸那麼緊張所以這個交流我們是當然是支持的還是支持啊沒有反對但是因為現在兩岸的一個情勢真的不同好的\n\n10\n00:03:25,094 --> 00:03:33,573\n那你的國防棋子在你們中山大學放在這個地方你目前為止你認為這三個學校就你的立場來看的話你覺得還是需要保留嗎\n\n11\n00:03:34,554 --> 00:03:41,438\n我們當然在已經被禁止了而且我再問一下這個國防七子七所大學是誰選的是誰選的剛剛說有疑慮的是誰選的是大學裡面主管大學的教育部所選的還是陸委會還是國安高層這七間學校是誰選的有徵詢過你的教育部長的意見嗎你還是高教出身有徵詢過大學校長的意見嗎\n\n12\n00:03:58,868 --> 00:04:02,674\n跟我們報告因為兩岸確實關係不一樣沒有啦我說這七間學校誰選的啦我要跟我們報告我們很清楚我們許多的科技產業我們的好啦那這七間學校誰選的啦部長我下面還有很多問題這七間學校誰選的\n\n13\n00:04:12,108 --> 00:04:36,917\n跟委員報告是我選的你所選的是然後你的這些都還是你中山大學其中有三個都是你中山大學的是我也非常清楚因為兩岸的關係不一樣所以你認為在你當校長的時候你不認為這三間學校有任何統戰的可能中山大學學徒目前為止還在愛高雄愛台灣有任何機會嗎那個時候還存留到現在你怎麼變成教育部長之後你就認為這三間學校跟你們締結姐妹學校裡面就有問題呢這個邏輯上很奇怪啊我還是跟委員報告兩岸的情勢不一樣了\n\n14\n00:04:40,979 --> 00:04:58,647\n所以這些學校你可以請中央大學把它撤下來了是不是還是姐妹交流可以但是當姐妹校可以交流就不可以你給我們一個底線這是台大校長說的跟我們報告我們的交流就是基本上在學術上的交流但是只要不涉及我們影響我們的這個科技產業跟產業上的一些喜多的一些\n\n15\n00:05:03,809 --> 00:05:31,817\n这部长我们两个在这边已经耗了很多时间这台大校长所提到的大家都不晓得侯先生在哪里我介绍非常多大学校长的成绩共同论文发表可不可以技术合作可不可以如果我们在海外的会议当中有跟对岸的学者碰面可不可以师生父母可不可以有疑虑的大学可否一次公布还有很重要可不可以要求大学校长共同来讨论还有呢你说国家关键技术可能外流那你说国防妻子可能要考虑\n\n16\n00:05:32,617 --> 00:05:47,533\n北大清大還有所謂的復旦其他學校交流有沒有這樣的風險疑似講清楚部長我不想花時間在這個地方請你把這個問題跟校長好好的溝通清楚可以嗎我們確實事實上北大清大我們並沒有\n\n17\n00:05:48,694 --> 00:06:01,419\n這個反對交流我們只是希望在交流的過程機敏的包括我們產業的一些喜多的一些因為界限很難就像你當鄭英耀校長的時候你認為這三個學校沒有問題當你當鄭英耀部長的時候公文報告時空真的不一樣兩岸現在情勢跟我擔任校長的那一個時候是不一樣的兩岸的一個交流\n\n18\n00:06:15,345 --> 00:06:19,387\n我覺得兩岸的教育有什麼不一樣有些時候是因為為了某些的目的或什麼我同意你要很謹慎但是呢我還是強調這是大學校長所整理出來的請部長好好的為大學校長來做示意好不好好本來就是啊而且你看520總統演說是要收入生請問過去一年大家當時成效如何\n\n19\n00:06:40,057 --> 00:07:07,578\n有吗这一年来目前我们一直保留开放态度但是对方不过来这就是因为两岸之间连我们认为比较单纯的学术交流都被划上一些有政治性的考量其实没有信任就没有这部分我刚刚所提到校长所关切的问题请部长好好的回应否则会让很多校长很怕因为这样子删了他们的补助款这就很不好了接下来我们再来问一下\n\n20\n00:07:08,439 --> 00:07:31,635\n我們一般性的補助款影響學校還有影響對學生的照顧部長你有掌握全國各縣市因為一般性補助款被刪減完之後所造成的一個影響嗎窮孩子不能窮孩子不能苦孩子這不是口號部長有充分的了解嗎我想這一個我的對教育因為委員跟我都一樣長期都是教育\n\n21\n00:07:32,466 --> 00:07:38,749\n相關的專業我們也對小孩子的台灣沒有天然資源我們有的就是完全沒有問題所以我才說你對22個縣市因為這樣子22個縣市我們對這一個不同縣市裡面的財政我們業務單位不管在體育署或者國教署都有充分掌握\n\n22\n00:07:48,874 --> 00:07:52,256\n我們也希望能夠給以一些較經費資源比較對部長我不想在這個時候因為藍綠已經對於這個到底是誰造成這樣的結果反正都有不同的看法立足點都不一樣我也不想陷入這個到處這個什麼總預算被砍然後造成這些影響我只告訴部長\n\n23\n00:08:08,163 --> 00:08:28,097\n一般性苦算跟学生是非常的有关系的特别是很多县市对于低收入中低收入还有身障学生安全设备还有包括中央政府所配合支出的新社幼稚园偏乡双语实现都受到很大的影响我说实在的我也不晓得组织处审计\n\n24\n00:08:28,917 --> 00:08:38,500\n教育部的預算的時候為什麼會做成這樣子一個決議在我們認為非常重要的時候他卻把這個部分迫使地方政府必須要做這樣子一個處理真的這個是對我們來說是一個非常非常可惡的\n\n25\n00:08:47,802 --> 00:09:13,408\n因為我們知道學生跟學生權益有關的跟經濟弱勢有關的或者特殊這個學生這不能刪啊我們都沒有刪我們也沒有刪了我們也沒有刪了所以怎麼樣所以我們現在只有這一些特殊狀況包含學位我們都完全安全當然要保護啊這是學校的命脈基礎啊所以我們目前的做法跟委員所提的是一致的好很好我們只有那些\n\n26\n00:09:15,389 --> 00:09:39,487\n歸屬我們這些優先順序的我們才配合因為在六三六議裡面我們不曉得我告訴你六三六議當中我覺得審計部在議算的時候真的是我只告訴你這些東西都是非常重要的非常重要我們在交通法委員會裡面也完全是力保這樣的一個措施感謝委員提醒但是委員的想法跟我們目前所做是一致的\n\n27\n00:09:39,667 --> 00:09:55,154\n我只希望這些預算都不要因為這些因素而受到非常大的影響預算有很多甚至中央預算我們還可以增列我們還可以追加不應該是用這個部分裡面框住最的部分裡面然後讓我們這些小孩子受到一個很大影響這是本席要不斷的補充的\n\n28\n00:09:55,874 --> 00:10:10,862\n我时间非常有限我最后来问一个运动的部分好不好来来来我们再问一个非常重要的一个运动的部分因为我们体育署动机了两千万但是我还是要强调你看告诉我们说要拼热奥运其实亚运选手来当为教练但是呢部长\n\n29\n00:10:11,622 --> 00:10:15,943\n署長經費越編越少而且重要的是預算的質詢率非常差都沒有達到50%連112年我們所編的跟決算來說的話質詢率只有46.46而且最重要的是為了經費我們中央到時候都告訴說我們要給這些榮耀之後幫我們國家爭光彩的這些的運動學所當他們轉為運動教練的時候我們就用約聘的方法\n\n30\n00:10:36,650 --> 00:10:52,397\n中央不應該帶頭用冤聘的方法任何人怎麼可能而且很多機會很好的人比一些地方我知道有很多地方政府像地方政府他們為了要給這些選手他們用專聘的方法可是有非常多是用約聘中央帶頭來做這怎麼說任何一個運動選手當然不會願意啊你要發展運動技術怎麼可以如此這是縣市的計劃型的教練\n\n31\n00:11:05,029 --> 00:11:10,291\n然後呢而且我告訴你全部啊我說運動教練啊我告訴你欸署長我都還沒有再講你們這邊的計畫裡面啊你看110人我先舉個例子來署長先跟我講你們國家運動訓練中心推動精英計畫你們編列了奧運跟亞運選手退役後的教練工作計畫是7800元喔你的決算數你們執行率不高而且你們教育部告訴我等一下我還要講\n\n32\n00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:49,188\n來我告訴你你們就一步告訴我說奧運跟亞運選手要領選一百名肌肉運動選手事實上是每四年才用到這些每四年一百你們寫法讓我們以為每一年有一百包委員是奧運年七十位亞運年三十位你們四年才培訓一百個\n\n33\n00:11:51,149 --> 00:12:14,140\n因為很多的教練他還是當選手所以他保有那個資格但是他在幾年後真正退役了之後才會開始所以你是告訴我四年之後來說我懂但是你們寫的寫法我真的覺得你們是順便這是我們承受非常多運動我們很多的運動教練都要跟我們來反應最重要一句話\n\n34\n00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:43,532\n榮耀之後你要給人家一個非常好的生活保障所以呢你成立之後呢我們還是很希望能夠增加我強調正式專業的運動教練所以呢不是用這個方法往前面我們前面的部分所以說是正式的運動教練包委員現在我們在國立的學校我們都有聘任但是問題是現在縣市的政府願不願意把員人四處來聘任現在主要聘任第一的是在縣市政府的部分\n\n35\n00:12:43,732 --> 00:13:02,514\n那你教育部完全把他甩過給縣市政府縣市政府還有經費上的問題啊計劃型教練都有在支持但是縣市政府不願意的話這部分不是我們中央可以去主導所以你縣市政府不願意的話我們中央就沒有我們還是有去給予補助大家從計劃型先試行然後鼓勵他希望能轉\n\n36\n00:13:03,095 --> 00:13:31,505\n署長如果是這樣子的話一切都是經費給縣市政府然後我們就說這是縣市政府的責任但是我告訴你署長中央還是有這樣否則我們要體育署幹嘛拿到錢給縣市政府縣市政府不願意去做這聘任我們就責任就了了嗎好不好請在這邊這都是很多運動圈給我們持足反應的這東西是非常重要的好謝謝謝謝科智恩委員質詢官員請回座我們接下來有請郭育晴委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n409\t4471\t部長好我們來看看這個解凍案在你的書面報告第16案各項教育推廣我們是凍結了一千萬那這個項目可以說是包羅萬象涉及國際跟兩岸的交流那我想部長在五月中的時候呢對於這個兩岸的交流呢你的說法是不鼓勵前往道路交流甚至是禁止反對\n22199\t36708\t然後後來呢因為這件說法引起太多的一個爭議那部長又開始特別有不同的一個說法那我下次很直白的問部長今天暑假如果學生想要參加的話可不可以參加兩岸交流的活動教育交流活動教育交流活動基本上依法我是\n42967\t57246\t不能反對的但是我也必須要講為什麼我不支持不贊成不鼓勵主要就是因為來自於陸委會已經在去年就頒布兩岸交流是一個陳設警戒的一個狀態\n58447\t69292\t基於教育部我們要維護我們老師跟學生因為他的風險是增加的所以我才會表達說我們不鼓勵好那我們就來看看風險因為也有很多大學教授他不曉得教育部的底線在哪裡他甚至很怕誤踩地雷所以讓他們的補助款因為被扣除所以呢我們當然要在這個時候呢就要來問一下教育部的態度到底是如何其實我說實在的部長以前杜正勝部長大家都認為他很綠\n86539\t106751\t可是呢他其實也沒有在任何的言語公開談話當中去禁止兩岸的交流那現在情勢當然不一樣所以我真的還是要問一下部長你們現在有國際級兩岸教育司如果部長不鼓勵不樂見甚至要禁止的話我說實在的你真的是可以把兩岸教育司這樣名字好好改一下甚至對於兩岸教育科的這部分\n109332\t110653\t有三所北京理工北京航空还有哈尔滨工都是跟你们的中山大学室友姐妹校的\n139833\t163155\t那部长我就想说了这也不是最近才发生从你当校长的时候呢你有觉得你们中山的这个关键技术有被窃取或者你觉得学生的权益跟彼此互相交流你觉得这些科研结果有因为这样子或甚至是你跟对岸地结界面上有被统战的这样的疑虑吗你在当校长的时候你有这样的疑虑过吗\n163795\t166738\t謝謝委員我想委員剛才也特別提到兩岸的關係確實沒關係你可以回答校長 正義要校長跟正義要部長的差別因為兩岸包含賴總統在去年就職的時候健康有序的交流\n181514\t195026\t所以我們也積極在考慮有更多的交流但是因為隨著兩岸的一個情勢它真的跟你學校不太一樣所以啊你們中山大學的網站這三個學校被我們所禁止的學校還在你們裡面過去沒有這樣的一個兩岸那麼緊張所以這個交流我們是當然是支持的還是支持啊沒有反對但是因為現在兩岸的一個情勢真的不同好的\n205094\t213573\t那你的國防棋子在你們中山大學放在這個地方你目前為止你認為這三個學校就你的立場來看的話你覺得還是需要保留嗎\n214554\t221438\t我們當然在已經被禁止了而且我再問一下這個國防七子七所大學是誰選的是誰選的剛剛說有疑慮的是誰選的是大學裡面主管大學的教育部所選的還是陸委會還是國安高層這七間學校是誰選的有徵詢過你的教育部長的意見嗎你還是高教出身有徵詢過大學校長的意見嗎\n238868\t242674\t跟我們報告因為兩岸確實關係不一樣沒有啦我說這七間學校誰選的啦我要跟我們報告我們很清楚我們許多的科技產業我們的好啦那這七間學校誰選的啦部長我下面還有很多問題這七間學校誰選的\n252108\t276917\t跟委員報告是我選的你所選的 是然後你的這些都還是你中山大學其中有三個都是你中山大學的是 我也非常清楚因為兩岸的關係不一樣所以你認為在你當校長的時候你不認為這三間學校有任何統戰的可能中山大學學徒目前為止還在愛高雄愛台灣有任何機會嗎那個時候還存留到現在你怎麼變成教育部長之後你就認為這三間學校跟你們締結姐妹學校裡面就有問題呢這個邏輯上很奇怪啊我還是跟委員報告兩岸的情勢不一樣了\n280979\t298647\t所以這些學校你可以請中央大學把它撤下來了是不是還是姐妹交流可以但是當姐妹校可以 交流就不可以你給我們一個底線這是台大校長說的跟我們報告我們的交流就是基本上在學術上的交流但是只要不涉及我們影響我們的這個科技產業跟產業上的一些喜多的一些\n303809\t331817\t这部长我们两个在这边已经耗了很多时间这台大校长所提到的大家都不晓得侯先生在哪里我介绍非常多大学校长的成绩共同论文发表可不可以技术合作可不可以如果我们在海外的会议当中有跟对岸的学者碰面可不可以师生父母可不可以有疑虑的大学可否一次公布还有很重要可不可以要求大学校长共同来讨论还有呢你说国家关键技术可能外流那你说国防妻子可能要考虑\n332617\t347533\t北大 清大還有所謂的復旦其他學校交流有沒有這樣的風險疑似講清楚部長我不想花時間在這個地方請你把這個問題跟校長好好的溝通清楚可以嗎我們確實事實上北大 清大我們並沒有\n348694\t361419\t這個反對交流我們只是希望在交流的過程機敏的包括我們產業的一些喜多的一些因為界限很難就像你當鄭英耀校長的時候你認為這三個學校沒有問題當你當鄭英耀部長的時候公文報告時空真的不一樣兩岸現在情勢跟我擔任校長的那一個時候是不一樣的兩岸的一個交流\n375345\t379387\t我覺得兩岸的教育有什麼不一樣有些時候是因為為了某些的目的或什麼我同意你要很謹慎但是呢我還是強調這是大學校長所整理出來的請部長好好的為大學校長來做示意好不好好本來就是啊而且你看520總統演說是要收入生請問過去一年大家當時成效如何\n400057\t427578\t有吗 这一年来目前我们一直保留开放态度但是对方不过来这就是因为两岸之间连我们认为比较单纯的学术交流都被划上一些有政治性的考量其实没有信任就没有这部分我刚刚所提到校长所关切的问题请部长好好的回应否则会让很多校长很怕因为这样子删了他们的补助款这就很不好了接下来我们再来问一下\n428439\t451635\t我們一般性的補助款影響學校還有影響對學生的照顧部長你有掌握全國各縣市因為一般性補助款被刪減完之後所造成的一個影響嗎窮孩子不能窮孩子不能苦孩子這不是口號部長有充分的了解嗎我想這一個我的對教育因為委員跟我都一樣長期都是教育\n452466\t458749\t相關的專業我們也對小孩子的台灣沒有天然資源我們有的就是完全沒有問題所以我才說你對22個縣市因為這樣子22個縣市我們對這一個不同縣市裡面的財政我們業務單位不管在體育署或者國教署都有充分掌握\n468874\t472256\t我們也希望能夠給以一些較經費資源比較對 部長我不想在這個時候因為藍綠已經對於這個到底是誰造成這樣的結果反正都有不同的看法立足點都不一樣我也不想陷入這個到處這個什麼總預算被砍然後造成這些影響我只告訴部長\n488163\t508097\t一般性苦算跟学生是非常的有关系的特别是很多县市对于低收入中低收入还有身障学生安全设备还有包括中央政府所配合支出的新社幼稚园偏乡双语实现都受到很大的影响我说实在的我也不晓得组织处审计\n508917\t518500\t教育部的預算的時候為什麼會做成這樣子一個決議在我們認為非常重要的時候他卻把這個部分迫使地方政府必須要做這樣子一個處理真的 這個是對我們來說是一個非常非常可惡的\n527802\t553408\t因為我們知道學生跟學生權益有關的跟經濟弱勢有關的或者特殊這個學生這不能刪啊我們都沒有刪我們也沒有刪了我們也沒有刪了所以怎麼樣所以我們現在只有這一些特殊狀況包含學位我們都完全安全當然要保護啊這是學校的命脈基礎啊所以我們目前的做法跟委員所提的是一致的好很好我們只有那些\n555389\t579487\t歸屬我們這些優先順序的我們才配合因為在六三六議裡面我們不曉得我告訴你六三六議當中我覺得審計部在議算的時候真的是我只告訴你這些東西都是非常重要的非常重要我們在交通法委員會裡面也完全是力保這樣的一個措施感謝委員提醒但是委員的想法跟我們目前所做是一致的\n579667\t595154\t我只希望這些預算都不要因為這些因素而受到非常大的影響預算有很多甚至中央預算我們還可以增列我們還可以追加不應該是用這個部分裡面框住最的部分裡面然後讓我們這些小孩子受到一個很大影響這是本席要不斷的補充的\n595874\t610862\t我时间非常有限我最后来问一个运动的部分好不好来来来我们再问一个非常重要的一个运动的部分因为我们体育署动机了两千万但是我还是要强调你看告诉我们说要拼热奥运其实亚运选手来当为教练但是呢部长\n611622\t615943\t署長經費越編越少而且重要的是預算的質詢率非常差都沒有達到50%連112年我們所編的跟決算來說的話質詢率只有46.46而且最重要的是為了經費我們中央到時候都告訴說我們要給這些榮耀之後幫我們國家爭光彩的這些的運動學所當他們轉為運動教練的時候我們就用約聘的方法\n636650\t652397\t中央不應該帶頭用冤聘的方法任何人怎麼可能而且很多機會很好的人比一些地方我知道有很多地方政府像地方政府他們為了要給這些選手他們用專聘的方法可是有非常多是用約聘中央帶頭來做這怎麼說任何一個運動選手當然不會願意啊你要發展運動技術怎麼可以如此這是縣市的計劃型的教練\n665029\t670291\t然後呢 而且我告訴你全部啊 我說運動教練啊 我告訴你欸 署長我都還沒有再講 你們這邊的計畫裡面啊 你看110人 我先舉個例子來 署長先跟我講你們國家運動訓練中心推動精英計畫你們編列了奧運跟亞運選手退役後的教練工作計畫是7800元喔你的決算數 你們執行率不高 而且你們教育部告訴我 等一下我還要講\n692800\t709188\t來我告訴你你們就一步告訴我說奧運跟亞運選手要領選一百名肌肉運動選手事實上是每四年才用到這些每四年一百你們寫法讓我們以為每一年有一百包委員是奧運年七十位亞運年三十位你們四年才培訓一百個\n711149\t734140\t因為很多的教練他還是當選手所以他保有那個資格但是他在幾年後真正退役了之後才會開始所以你是告訴我四年之後來說我懂但是你們寫的寫法我真的覺得你們是順便這是我們承受非常多運動我們很多的運動教練都要跟我們來反應最重要一句話\n735280\t763532\t榮耀之後你要給人家一個非常好的生活保障所以呢你成立之後呢我們還是很希望能夠增加我強調正式專業的運動教練所以呢不是用這個方法往前面我們前面的部分所以說是正式的運動教練包委員現在我們在國立的學校我們都有聘任但是問題是現在縣市的政府願不願意把員人四處來聘任現在主要聘任第一的是在縣市政府的部分\n763732\t782514\t那你教育部完全把他甩過給縣市政府縣市政府還有經費上的問題啊計劃型教練都有在支持但是縣市政府不願意的話這部分不是我們中央可以去主導所以你縣市政府不願意的話我們中央就沒有我們還是有去給予補助大家從計劃型先試行然後鼓勵他希望能轉\n783095\t811505\t署長如果是這樣子的話一切都是經費給縣市政府然後我們就說這是縣市政府的責任但是我告訴你署長中央還是有這樣否則我們要體育署幹嘛拿到錢給縣市政府縣市政府不願意去做這聘任我們就責任就了了嗎好不好請在這邊這都是很多運動圈給我們持足反應的這東西是非常重要的好謝謝謝謝科智恩委員質詢官員請回座我們接下來有請郭育晴委員質詢\n","txt":"部長好我們來看看這個解凍案在你的書面報告第16案各項教育推廣我們是凍結了一千萬那這個項目可以說是包羅萬象涉及國際跟兩岸的交流那我想部長在五月中的時候呢對於這個兩岸的交流呢你的說法是不鼓勵前往道路交流甚至是禁止反對\n然後後來呢因為這件說法引起太多的一個爭議那部長又開始特別有不同的一個說法那我下次很直白的問部長今天暑假如果學生想要參加的話可不可以參加兩岸交流的活動教育交流活動教育交流活動基本上依法我是\n不能反對的但是我也必須要講為什麼我不支持不贊成不鼓勵主要就是因為來自於陸委會已經在去年就頒布兩岸交流是一個陳設警戒的一個狀態\n基於教育部我們要維護我們老師跟學生因為他的風險是增加的所以我才會表達說我們不鼓勵好那我們就來看看風險因為也有很多大學教授他不曉得教育部的底線在哪裡他甚至很怕誤踩地雷所以讓他們的補助款因為被扣除所以呢我們當然要在這個時候呢就要來問一下教育部的態度到底是如何其實我說實在的部長以前杜正勝部長大家都認為他很綠\n可是呢他其實也沒有在任何的言語公開談話當中去禁止兩岸的交流那現在情勢當然不一樣所以我真的還是要問一下部長你們現在有國際級兩岸教育司如果部長不鼓勵不樂見甚至要禁止的話我說實在的你真的是可以把兩岸教育司這樣名字好好改一下甚至對於兩岸教育科的這部分\n有三所北京理工北京航空还有哈尔滨工都是跟你们的中山大学室友姐妹校的\n那部长我就想说了这也不是最近才发生从你当校长的时候呢你有觉得你们中山的这个关键技术有被窃取或者你觉得学生的权益跟彼此互相交流你觉得这些科研结果有因为这样子或甚至是你跟对岸地结界面上有被统战的这样的疑虑吗你在当校长的时候你有这样的疑虑过吗\n謝謝委員我想委員剛才也特別提到兩岸的關係確實沒關係你可以回答校長 正義要校長跟正義要部長的差別因為兩岸包含賴總統在去年就職的時候健康有序的交流\n所以我們也積極在考慮有更多的交流但是因為隨著兩岸的一個情勢它真的跟你學校不太一樣所以啊你們中山大學的網站這三個學校被我們所禁止的學校還在你們裡面過去沒有這樣的一個兩岸那麼緊張所以這個交流我們是當然是支持的還是支持啊沒有反對但是因為現在兩岸的一個情勢真的不同好的\n那你的國防棋子在你們中山大學放在這個地方你目前為止你認為這三個學校就你的立場來看的話你覺得還是需要保留嗎\n我們當然在已經被禁止了而且我再問一下這個國防七子七所大學是誰選的是誰選的剛剛說有疑慮的是誰選的是大學裡面主管大學的教育部所選的還是陸委會還是國安高層這七間學校是誰選的有徵詢過你的教育部長的意見嗎你還是高教出身有徵詢過大學校長的意見嗎\n跟我們報告因為兩岸確實關係不一樣沒有啦我說這七間學校誰選的啦我要跟我們報告我們很清楚我們許多的科技產業我們的好啦那這七間學校誰選的啦部長我下面還有很多問題這七間學校誰選的\n跟委員報告是我選的你所選的 是然後你的這些都還是你中山大學其中有三個都是你中山大學的是 我也非常清楚因為兩岸的關係不一樣所以你認為在你當校長的時候你不認為這三間學校有任何統戰的可能中山大學學徒目前為止還在愛高雄愛台灣有任何機會嗎那個時候還存留到現在你怎麼變成教育部長之後你就認為這三間學校跟你們締結姐妹學校裡面就有問題呢這個邏輯上很奇怪啊我還是跟委員報告兩岸的情勢不一樣了\n所以這些學校你可以請中央大學把它撤下來了是不是還是姐妹交流可以但是當姐妹校可以 交流就不可以你給我們一個底線這是台大校長說的跟我們報告我們的交流就是基本上在學術上的交流但是只要不涉及我們影響我們的這個科技產業跟產業上的一些喜多的一些\n这部长我们两个在这边已经耗了很多时间这台大校长所提到的大家都不晓得侯先生在哪里我介绍非常多大学校长的成绩共同论文发表可不可以技术合作可不可以如果我们在海外的会议当中有跟对岸的学者碰面可不可以师生父母可不可以有疑虑的大学可否一次公布还有很重要可不可以要求大学校长共同来讨论还有呢你说国家关键技术可能外流那你说国防妻子可能要考虑\n北大 清大還有所謂的復旦其他學校交流有沒有這樣的風險疑似講清楚部長我不想花時間在這個地方請你把這個問題跟校長好好的溝通清楚可以嗎我們確實事實上北大 清大我們並沒有\n這個反對交流我們只是希望在交流的過程機敏的包括我們產業的一些喜多的一些因為界限很難就像你當鄭英耀校長的時候你認為這三個學校沒有問題當你當鄭英耀部長的時候公文報告時空真的不一樣兩岸現在情勢跟我擔任校長的那一個時候是不一樣的兩岸的一個交流\n我覺得兩岸的教育有什麼不一樣有些時候是因為為了某些的目的或什麼我同意你要很謹慎但是呢我還是強調這是大學校長所整理出來的請部長好好的為大學校長來做示意好不好好本來就是啊而且你看520總統演說是要收入生請問過去一年大家當時成效如何\n有吗 这一年来目前我们一直保留开放态度但是对方不过来这就是因为两岸之间连我们认为比较单纯的学术交流都被划上一些有政治性的考量其实没有信任就没有这部分我刚刚所提到校长所关切的问题请部长好好的回应否则会让很多校长很怕因为这样子删了他们的补助款这就很不好了接下来我们再来问一下\n我們一般性的補助款影響學校還有影響對學生的照顧部長你有掌握全國各縣市因為一般性補助款被刪減完之後所造成的一個影響嗎窮孩子不能窮孩子不能苦孩子這不是口號部長有充分的了解嗎我想這一個我的對教育因為委員跟我都一樣長期都是教育\n相關的專業我們也對小孩子的台灣沒有天然資源我們有的就是完全沒有問題所以我才說你對22個縣市因為這樣子22個縣市我們對這一個不同縣市裡面的財政我們業務單位不管在體育署或者國教署都有充分掌握\n我們也希望能夠給以一些較經費資源比較對 部長我不想在這個時候因為藍綠已經對於這個到底是誰造成這樣的結果反正都有不同的看法立足點都不一樣我也不想陷入這個到處這個什麼總預算被砍然後造成這些影響我只告訴部長\n一般性苦算跟学生是非常的有关系的特别是很多县市对于低收入中低收入还有身障学生安全设备还有包括中央政府所配合支出的新社幼稚园偏乡双语实现都受到很大的影响我说实在的我也不晓得组织处审计\n教育部的預算的時候為什麼會做成這樣子一個決議在我們認為非常重要的時候他卻把這個部分迫使地方政府必須要做這樣子一個處理真的 這個是對我們來說是一個非常非常可惡的\n因為我們知道學生跟學生權益有關的跟經濟弱勢有關的或者特殊這個學生這不能刪啊我們都沒有刪我們也沒有刪了我們也沒有刪了所以怎麼樣所以我們現在只有這一些特殊狀況包含學位我們都完全安全當然要保護啊這是學校的命脈基礎啊所以我們目前的做法跟委員所提的是一致的好很好我們只有那些\n歸屬我們這些優先順序的我們才配合因為在六三六議裡面我們不曉得我告訴你六三六議當中我覺得審計部在議算的時候真的是我只告訴你這些東西都是非常重要的非常重要我們在交通法委員會裡面也完全是力保這樣的一個措施感謝委員提醒但是委員的想法跟我們目前所做是一致的\n我只希望這些預算都不要因為這些因素而受到非常大的影響預算有很多甚至中央預算我們還可以增列我們還可以追加不應該是用這個部分裡面框住最的部分裡面然後讓我們這些小孩子受到一個很大影響這是本席要不斷的補充的\n我时间非常有限我最后来问一个运动的部分好不好来来来我们再问一个非常重要的一个运动的部分因为我们体育署动机了两千万但是我还是要强调你看告诉我们说要拼热奥运其实亚运选手来当为教练但是呢部长\n署長經費越編越少而且重要的是預算的質詢率非常差都沒有達到50%連112年我們所編的跟決算來說的話質詢率只有46.46而且最重要的是為了經費我們中央到時候都告訴說我們要給這些榮耀之後幫我們國家爭光彩的這些的運動學所當他們轉為運動教練的時候我們就用約聘的方法\n中央不應該帶頭用冤聘的方法任何人怎麼可能而且很多機會很好的人比一些地方我知道有很多地方政府像地方政府他們為了要給這些選手他們用專聘的方法可是有非常多是用約聘中央帶頭來做這怎麼說任何一個運動選手當然不會願意啊你要發展運動技術怎麼可以如此這是縣市的計劃型的教練\n然後呢 而且我告訴你全部啊 我說運動教練啊 我告訴你欸 署長我都還沒有再講 你們這邊的計畫裡面啊 你看110人 我先舉個例子來 署長先跟我講你們國家運動訓練中心推動精英計畫你們編列了奧運跟亞運選手退役後的教練工作計畫是7800元喔你的決算數 你們執行率不高 而且你們教育部告訴我 等一下我還要講\n來我告訴你你們就一步告訴我說奧運跟亞運選手要領選一百名肌肉運動選手事實上是每四年才用到這些每四年一百你們寫法讓我們以為每一年有一百包委員是奧運年七十位亞運年三十位你們四年才培訓一百個\n因為很多的教練他還是當選手所以他保有那個資格但是他在幾年後真正退役了之後才會開始所以你是告訴我四年之後來說我懂但是你們寫的寫法我真的覺得你們是順便這是我們承受非常多運動我們很多的運動教練都要跟我們來反應最重要一句話\n榮耀之後你要給人家一個非常好的生活保障所以呢你成立之後呢我們還是很希望能夠增加我強調正式專業的運動教練所以呢不是用這個方法往前面我們前面的部分所以說是正式的運動教練包委員現在我們在國立的學校我們都有聘任但是問題是現在縣市的政府願不願意把員人四處來聘任現在主要聘任第一的是在縣市政府的部分\n那你教育部完全把他甩過給縣市政府縣市政府還有經費上的問題啊計劃型教練都有在支持但是縣市政府不願意的話這部分不是我們中央可以去主導所以你縣市政府不願意的話我們中央就沒有我們還是有去給予補助大家從計劃型先試行然後鼓勵他希望能轉\n署長如果是這樣子的話一切都是經費給縣市政府然後我們就說這是縣市政府的責任但是我告訴你署長中央還是有這樣否則我們要體育署幹嘛拿到錢給縣市政府縣市政府不願意去做這聘任我們就責任就了了嗎好不好請在這邊這都是很多運動圈給我們持足反應的這東西是非常重要的好謝謝謝謝科智恩委員質詢官員請回座我們接下來有請郭育晴委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.409 --> 00:04.471\n部長好我們來看看這個解凍案在你的書面報告第16案各項教育推廣我們是凍結了一千萬那這個項目可以說是包羅萬象涉及國際跟兩岸的交流那我想部長在五月中的時候呢對於這個兩岸的交流呢你的說法是不鼓勵前往道路交流甚至是禁止反對\n\n00:22.199 --> 00:36.708\n然後後來呢因為這件說法引起太多的一個爭議那部長又開始特別有不同的一個說法那我下次很直白的問部長今天暑假如果學生想要參加的話可不可以參加兩岸交流的活動教育交流活動教育交流活動基本上依法我是\n\n00:42.967 --> 00:57.246\n不能反對的但是我也必須要講為什麼我不支持不贊成不鼓勵主要就是因為來自於陸委會已經在去年就頒布兩岸交流是一個陳設警戒的一個狀態\n\n00:58.447 --> 01:09.292\n基於教育部我們要維護我們老師跟學生因為他的風險是增加的所以我才會表達說我們不鼓勵好那我們就來看看風險因為也有很多大學教授他不曉得教育部的底線在哪裡他甚至很怕誤踩地雷所以讓他們的補助款因為被扣除所以呢我們當然要在這個時候呢就要來問一下教育部的態度到底是如何其實我說實在的部長以前杜正勝部長大家都認為他很綠\n\n01:26.539 --> 01:46.751\n可是呢他其實也沒有在任何的言語公開談話當中去禁止兩岸的交流那現在情勢當然不一樣所以我真的還是要問一下部長你們現在有國際級兩岸教育司如果部長不鼓勵不樂見甚至要禁止的話我說實在的你真的是可以把兩岸教育司這樣名字好好改一下甚至對於兩岸教育科的這部分\n\n01:49.332 --> 01:50.653\n有三所北京理工北京航空还有哈尔滨工都是跟你们的中山大学室友姐妹校的\n\n02:19.833 --> 02:43.155\n那部长我就想说了这也不是最近才发生从你当校长的时候呢你有觉得你们中山的这个关键技术有被窃取或者你觉得学生的权益跟彼此互相交流你觉得这些科研结果有因为这样子或甚至是你跟对岸地结界面上有被统战的这样的疑虑吗你在当校长的时候你有这样的疑虑过吗\n\n02:43.795 --> 02:46.738\n謝謝委員我想委員剛才也特別提到兩岸的關係確實沒關係你可以回答校長正義要校長跟正義要部長的差別因為兩岸包含賴總統在去年就職的時候健康有序的交流\n\n03:01.514 --> 03:15.026\n所以我們也積極在考慮有更多的交流但是因為隨著兩岸的一個情勢它真的跟你學校不太一樣所以啊你們中山大學的網站這三個學校被我們所禁止的學校還在你們裡面過去沒有這樣的一個兩岸那麼緊張所以這個交流我們是當然是支持的還是支持啊沒有反對但是因為現在兩岸的一個情勢真的不同好的\n\n03:25.094 --> 03:33.573\n那你的國防棋子在你們中山大學放在這個地方你目前為止你認為這三個學校就你的立場來看的話你覺得還是需要保留嗎\n\n03:34.554 --> 03:41.438\n我們當然在已經被禁止了而且我再問一下這個國防七子七所大學是誰選的是誰選的剛剛說有疑慮的是誰選的是大學裡面主管大學的教育部所選的還是陸委會還是國安高層這七間學校是誰選的有徵詢過你的教育部長的意見嗎你還是高教出身有徵詢過大學校長的意見嗎\n\n03:58.868 --> 04:02.674\n跟我們報告因為兩岸確實關係不一樣沒有啦我說這七間學校誰選的啦我要跟我們報告我們很清楚我們許多的科技產業我們的好啦那這七間學校誰選的啦部長我下面還有很多問題這七間學校誰選的\n\n04:12.108 --> 04:36.917\n跟委員報告是我選的你所選的是然後你的這些都還是你中山大學其中有三個都是你中山大學的是我也非常清楚因為兩岸的關係不一樣所以你認為在你當校長的時候你不認為這三間學校有任何統戰的可能中山大學學徒目前為止還在愛高雄愛台灣有任何機會嗎那個時候還存留到現在你怎麼變成教育部長之後你就認為這三間學校跟你們締結姐妹學校裡面就有問題呢這個邏輯上很奇怪啊我還是跟委員報告兩岸的情勢不一樣了\n\n04:40.979 --> 04:58.647\n所以這些學校你可以請中央大學把它撤下來了是不是還是姐妹交流可以但是當姐妹校可以交流就不可以你給我們一個底線這是台大校長說的跟我們報告我們的交流就是基本上在學術上的交流但是只要不涉及我們影響我們的這個科技產業跟產業上的一些喜多的一些\n\n05:03.809 --> 05:31.817\n这部长我们两个在这边已经耗了很多时间这台大校长所提到的大家都不晓得侯先生在哪里我介绍非常多大学校长的成绩共同论文发表可不可以技术合作可不可以如果我们在海外的会议当中有跟对岸的学者碰面可不可以师生父母可不可以有疑虑的大学可否一次公布还有很重要可不可以要求大学校长共同来讨论还有呢你说国家关键技术可能外流那你说国防妻子可能要考虑\n\n05:32.617 --> 05:47.533\n北大清大還有所謂的復旦其他學校交流有沒有這樣的風險疑似講清楚部長我不想花時間在這個地方請你把這個問題跟校長好好的溝通清楚可以嗎我們確實事實上北大清大我們並沒有\n\n05:48.694 --> 06:01.419\n這個反對交流我們只是希望在交流的過程機敏的包括我們產業的一些喜多的一些因為界限很難就像你當鄭英耀校長的時候你認為這三個學校沒有問題當你當鄭英耀部長的時候公文報告時空真的不一樣兩岸現在情勢跟我擔任校長的那一個時候是不一樣的兩岸的一個交流\n\n06:15.345 --> 06:19.387\n我覺得兩岸的教育有什麼不一樣有些時候是因為為了某些的目的或什麼我同意你要很謹慎但是呢我還是強調這是大學校長所整理出來的請部長好好的為大學校長來做示意好不好好本來就是啊而且你看520總統演說是要收入生請問過去一年大家當時成效如何\n\n06:40.057 --> 07:07.578\n有吗这一年来目前我们一直保留开放态度但是对方不过来这就是因为两岸之间连我们认为比较单纯的学术交流都被划上一些有政治性的考量其实没有信任就没有这部分我刚刚所提到校长所关切的问题请部长好好的回应否则会让很多校长很怕因为这样子删了他们的补助款这就很不好了接下来我们再来问一下\n\n07:08.439 --> 07:31.635\n我們一般性的補助款影響學校還有影響對學生的照顧部長你有掌握全國各縣市因為一般性補助款被刪減完之後所造成的一個影響嗎窮孩子不能窮孩子不能苦孩子這不是口號部長有充分的了解嗎我想這一個我的對教育因為委員跟我都一樣長期都是教育\n\n07:32.466 --> 07:38.749\n相關的專業我們也對小孩子的台灣沒有天然資源我們有的就是完全沒有問題所以我才說你對22個縣市因為這樣子22個縣市我們對這一個不同縣市裡面的財政我們業務單位不管在體育署或者國教署都有充分掌握\n\n07:48.874 --> 07:52.256\n我們也希望能夠給以一些較經費資源比較對部長我不想在這個時候因為藍綠已經對於這個到底是誰造成這樣的結果反正都有不同的看法立足點都不一樣我也不想陷入這個到處這個什麼總預算被砍然後造成這些影響我只告訴部長\n\n08:08.163 --> 08:28.097\n一般性苦算跟学生是非常的有关系的特别是很多县市对于低收入中低收入还有身障学生安全设备还有包括中央政府所配合支出的新社幼稚园偏乡双语实现都受到很大的影响我说实在的我也不晓得组织处审计\n\n08:28.917 --> 08:38.500\n教育部的預算的時候為什麼會做成這樣子一個決議在我們認為非常重要的時候他卻把這個部分迫使地方政府必須要做這樣子一個處理真的這個是對我們來說是一個非常非常可惡的\n\n08:47.802 --> 09:13.408\n因為我們知道學生跟學生權益有關的跟經濟弱勢有關的或者特殊這個學生這不能刪啊我們都沒有刪我們也沒有刪了我們也沒有刪了所以怎麼樣所以我們現在只有這一些特殊狀況包含學位我們都完全安全當然要保護啊這是學校的命脈基礎啊所以我們目前的做法跟委員所提的是一致的好很好我們只有那些\n\n09:15.389 --> 09:39.487\n歸屬我們這些優先順序的我們才配合因為在六三六議裡面我們不曉得我告訴你六三六議當中我覺得審計部在議算的時候真的是我只告訴你這些東西都是非常重要的非常重要我們在交通法委員會裡面也完全是力保這樣的一個措施感謝委員提醒但是委員的想法跟我們目前所做是一致的\n\n09:39.667 --> 09:55.154\n我只希望這些預算都不要因為這些因素而受到非常大的影響預算有很多甚至中央預算我們還可以增列我們還可以追加不應該是用這個部分裡面框住最的部分裡面然後讓我們這些小孩子受到一個很大影響這是本席要不斷的補充的\n\n09:55.874 --> 10:10.862\n我时间非常有限我最后来问一个运动的部分好不好来来来我们再问一个非常重要的一个运动的部分因为我们体育署动机了两千万但是我还是要强调你看告诉我们说要拼热奥运其实亚运选手来当为教练但是呢部长\n\n10:11.622 --> 10:15.943\n署長經費越編越少而且重要的是預算的質詢率非常差都沒有達到50%連112年我們所編的跟決算來說的話質詢率只有46.46而且最重要的是為了經費我們中央到時候都告訴說我們要給這些榮耀之後幫我們國家爭光彩的這些的運動學所當他們轉為運動教練的時候我們就用約聘的方法\n\n10:36.650 --> 10:52.397\n中央不應該帶頭用冤聘的方法任何人怎麼可能而且很多機會很好的人比一些地方我知道有很多地方政府像地方政府他們為了要給這些選手他們用專聘的方法可是有非常多是用約聘中央帶頭來做這怎麼說任何一個運動選手當然不會願意啊你要發展運動技術怎麼可以如此這是縣市的計劃型的教練\n\n11:05.029 --> 11:10.291\n然後呢而且我告訴你全部啊我說運動教練啊我告訴你欸署長我都還沒有再講你們這邊的計畫裡面啊你看110人我先舉個例子來署長先跟我講你們國家運動訓練中心推動精英計畫你們編列了奧運跟亞運選手退役後的教練工作計畫是7800元喔你的決算數你們執行率不高而且你們教育部告訴我等一下我還要講\n\n11:32.800 --> 11:49.188\n來我告訴你你們就一步告訴我說奧運跟亞運選手要領選一百名肌肉運動選手事實上是每四年才用到這些每四年一百你們寫法讓我們以為每一年有一百包委員是奧運年七十位亞運年三十位你們四年才培訓一百個\n\n11:51.149 --> 12:14.140\n因為很多的教練他還是當選手所以他保有那個資格但是他在幾年後真正退役了之後才會開始所以你是告訴我四年之後來說我懂但是你們寫的寫法我真的覺得你們是順便這是我們承受非常多運動我們很多的運動教練都要跟我們來反應最重要一句話\n\n12:15.280 --> 12:43.532\n榮耀之後你要給人家一個非常好的生活保障所以呢你成立之後呢我們還是很希望能夠增加我強調正式專業的運動教練所以呢不是用這個方法往前面我們前面的部分所以說是正式的運動教練包委員現在我們在國立的學校我們都有聘任但是問題是現在縣市的政府願不願意把員人四處來聘任現在主要聘任第一的是在縣市政府的部分\n\n12:43.732 --> 13:02.514\n那你教育部完全把他甩過給縣市政府縣市政府還有經費上的問題啊計劃型教練都有在支持但是縣市政府不願意的話這部分不是我們中央可以去主導所以你縣市政府不願意的話我們中央就沒有我們還是有去給予補助大家從計劃型先試行然後鼓勵他希望能轉\n\n13:03.095 --> 13:31.505\n署長如果是這樣子的話一切都是經費給縣市政府然後我們就說這是縣市政府的責任但是我告訴你署長中央還是有這樣否則我們要體育署幹嘛拿到錢給縣市政府縣市政府不願意去做這聘任我們就責任就了了嗎好不好請在這邊這都是很多運動圈給我們持足反應的這東西是非常重要的好謝謝謝謝科智恩委員質詢官員請回座我們接下來有請郭育晴委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.409,"end":4.471,"text":"部長好我們來看看這個解凍案在你的書面報告第16案各項教育推廣我們是凍結了一千萬那這個項目可以說是包羅萬象涉及國際跟兩岸的交流那我想部長在五月中的時候呢對於這個兩岸的交流呢你的說法是不鼓勵前往道路交流甚至是禁止反對"},{"start":22.199,"end":36.708,"text":"然後後來呢因為這件說法引起太多的一個爭議那部長又開始特別有不同的一個說法那我下次很直白的問部長今天暑假如果學生想要參加的話可不可以參加兩岸交流的活動教育交流活動教育交流活動基本上依法我是"},{"start":42.967,"end":57.246,"text":"不能反對的但是我也必須要講為什麼我不支持不贊成不鼓勵主要就是因為來自於陸委會已經在去年就頒布兩岸交流是一個陳設警戒的一個狀態"},{"start":58.447,"end":69.292,"text":"基於教育部我們要維護我們老師跟學生因為他的風險是增加的所以我才會表達說我們不鼓勵好那我們就來看看風險因為也有很多大學教授他不曉得教育部的底線在哪裡他甚至很怕誤踩地雷所以讓他們的補助款因為被扣除所以呢我們當然要在這個時候呢就要來問一下教育部的態度到底是如何其實我說實在的部長以前杜正勝部長大家都認為他很綠"},{"start":86.539,"end":106.751,"text":"可是呢他其實也沒有在任何的言語公開談話當中去禁止兩岸的交流那現在情勢當然不一樣所以我真的還是要問一下部長你們現在有國際級兩岸教育司如果部長不鼓勵不樂見甚至要禁止的話我說實在的你真的是可以把兩岸教育司這樣名字好好改一下甚至對於兩岸教育科的這部分"},{"start":109.332,"end":110.653,"text":"有三所北京理工北京航空还有哈尔滨工都是跟你们的中山大学室友姐妹校的"},{"start":139.833,"end":163.155,"text":"那部长我就想说了这也不是最近才发生从你当校长的时候呢你有觉得你们中山的这个关键技术有被窃取或者你觉得学生的权益跟彼此互相交流你觉得这些科研结果有因为这样子或甚至是你跟对岸地结界面上有被统战的这样的疑虑吗你在当校长的时候你有这样的疑虑过吗"},{"start":163.795,"end":166.738,"text":"謝謝委員我想委員剛才也特別提到兩岸的關係確實沒關係你可以回答校長 正義要校長跟正義要部長的差別因為兩岸包含賴總統在去年就職的時候健康有序的交流"},{"start":181.514,"end":195.026,"text":"所以我們也積極在考慮有更多的交流但是因為隨著兩岸的一個情勢它真的跟你學校不太一樣所以啊你們中山大學的網站這三個學校被我們所禁止的學校還在你們裡面過去沒有這樣的一個兩岸那麼緊張所以這個交流我們是當然是支持的還是支持啊沒有反對但是因為現在兩岸的一個情勢真的不同好的"},{"start":205.094,"end":213.573,"text":"那你的國防棋子在你們中山大學放在這個地方你目前為止你認為這三個學校就你的立場來看的話你覺得還是需要保留嗎"},{"start":214.554,"end":221.438,"text":"我們當然在已經被禁止了而且我再問一下這個國防七子七所大學是誰選的是誰選的剛剛說有疑慮的是誰選的是大學裡面主管大學的教育部所選的還是陸委會還是國安高層這七間學校是誰選的有徵詢過你的教育部長的意見嗎你還是高教出身有徵詢過大學校長的意見嗎"},{"start":238.868,"end":242.674,"text":"跟我們報告因為兩岸確實關係不一樣沒有啦我說這七間學校誰選的啦我要跟我們報告我們很清楚我們許多的科技產業我們的好啦那這七間學校誰選的啦部長我下面還有很多問題這七間學校誰選的"},{"start":252.108,"end":276.917,"text":"跟委員報告是我選的你所選的 是然後你的這些都還是你中山大學其中有三個都是你中山大學的是 我也非常清楚因為兩岸的關係不一樣所以你認為在你當校長的時候你不認為這三間學校有任何統戰的可能中山大學學徒目前為止還在愛高雄愛台灣有任何機會嗎那個時候還存留到現在你怎麼變成教育部長之後你就認為這三間學校跟你們締結姐妹學校裡面就有問題呢這個邏輯上很奇怪啊我還是跟委員報告兩岸的情勢不一樣了"},{"start":280.979,"end":298.647,"text":"所以這些學校你可以請中央大學把它撤下來了是不是還是姐妹交流可以但是當姐妹校可以 交流就不可以你給我們一個底線這是台大校長說的跟我們報告我們的交流就是基本上在學術上的交流但是只要不涉及我們影響我們的這個科技產業跟產業上的一些喜多的一些"},{"start":303.809,"end":331.817,"text":"这部长我们两个在这边已经耗了很多时间这台大校长所提到的大家都不晓得侯先生在哪里我介绍非常多大学校长的成绩共同论文发表可不可以技术合作可不可以如果我们在海外的会议当中有跟对岸的学者碰面可不可以师生父母可不可以有疑虑的大学可否一次公布还有很重要可不可以要求大学校长共同来讨论还有呢你说国家关键技术可能外流那你说国防妻子可能要考虑"},{"start":332.617,"end":347.533,"text":"北大 清大還有所謂的復旦其他學校交流有沒有這樣的風險疑似講清楚部長我不想花時間在這個地方請你把這個問題跟校長好好的溝通清楚可以嗎我們確實事實上北大 清大我們並沒有"},{"start":348.694,"end":361.419,"text":"這個反對交流我們只是希望在交流的過程機敏的包括我們產業的一些喜多的一些因為界限很難就像你當鄭英耀校長的時候你認為這三個學校沒有問題當你當鄭英耀部長的時候公文報告時空真的不一樣兩岸現在情勢跟我擔任校長的那一個時候是不一樣的兩岸的一個交流"},{"start":375.345,"end":379.387,"text":"我覺得兩岸的教育有什麼不一樣有些時候是因為為了某些的目的或什麼我同意你要很謹慎但是呢我還是強調這是大學校長所整理出來的請部長好好的為大學校長來做示意好不好好本來就是啊而且你看520總統演說是要收入生請問過去一年大家當時成效如何"},{"start":400.057,"end":427.578,"text":"有吗 这一年来目前我们一直保留开放态度但是对方不过来这就是因为两岸之间连我们认为比较单纯的学术交流都被划上一些有政治性的考量其实没有信任就没有这部分我刚刚所提到校长所关切的问题请部长好好的回应否则会让很多校长很怕因为这样子删了他们的补助款这就很不好了接下来我们再来问一下"},{"start":428.439,"end":451.635,"text":"我們一般性的補助款影響學校還有影響對學生的照顧部長你有掌握全國各縣市因為一般性補助款被刪減完之後所造成的一個影響嗎窮孩子不能窮孩子不能苦孩子這不是口號部長有充分的了解嗎我想這一個我的對教育因為委員跟我都一樣長期都是教育"},{"start":452.466,"end":458.749,"text":"相關的專業我們也對小孩子的台灣沒有天然資源我們有的就是完全沒有問題所以我才說你對22個縣市因為這樣子22個縣市我們對這一個不同縣市裡面的財政我們業務單位不管在體育署或者國教署都有充分掌握"},{"start":468.874,"end":472.256,"text":"我們也希望能夠給以一些較經費資源比較對 部長我不想在這個時候因為藍綠已經對於這個到底是誰造成這樣的結果反正都有不同的看法立足點都不一樣我也不想陷入這個到處這個什麼總預算被砍然後造成這些影響我只告訴部長"},{"start":488.163,"end":508.097,"text":"一般性苦算跟学生是非常的有关系的特别是很多县市对于低收入中低收入还有身障学生安全设备还有包括中央政府所配合支出的新社幼稚园偏乡双语实现都受到很大的影响我说实在的我也不晓得组织处审计"},{"start":508.917,"end":518.5,"text":"教育部的預算的時候為什麼會做成這樣子一個決議在我們認為非常重要的時候他卻把這個部分迫使地方政府必須要做這樣子一個處理真的 這個是對我們來說是一個非常非常可惡的"},{"start":527.802,"end":553.408,"text":"因為我們知道學生跟學生權益有關的跟經濟弱勢有關的或者特殊這個學生這不能刪啊我們都沒有刪我們也沒有刪了我們也沒有刪了所以怎麼樣所以我們現在只有這一些特殊狀況包含學位我們都完全安全當然要保護啊這是學校的命脈基礎啊所以我們目前的做法跟委員所提的是一致的好很好我們只有那些"},{"start":555.389,"end":579.487,"text":"歸屬我們這些優先順序的我們才配合因為在六三六議裡面我們不曉得我告訴你六三六議當中我覺得審計部在議算的時候真的是我只告訴你這些東西都是非常重要的非常重要我們在交通法委員會裡面也完全是力保這樣的一個措施感謝委員提醒但是委員的想法跟我們目前所做是一致的"},{"start":579.667,"end":595.154,"text":"我只希望這些預算都不要因為這些因素而受到非常大的影響預算有很多甚至中央預算我們還可以增列我們還可以追加不應該是用這個部分裡面框住最的部分裡面然後讓我們這些小孩子受到一個很大影響這是本席要不斷的補充的"},{"start":595.874,"end":610.862,"text":"我时间非常有限我最后来问一个运动的部分好不好来来来我们再问一个非常重要的一个运动的部分因为我们体育署动机了两千万但是我还是要强调你看告诉我们说要拼热奥运其实亚运选手来当为教练但是呢部长"},{"start":611.622,"end":615.943,"text":"署長經費越編越少而且重要的是預算的質詢率非常差都沒有達到50%連112年我們所編的跟決算來說的話質詢率只有46.46而且最重要的是為了經費我們中央到時候都告訴說我們要給這些榮耀之後幫我們國家爭光彩的這些的運動學所當他們轉為運動教練的時候我們就用約聘的方法"},{"start":636.65,"end":652.397,"text":"中央不應該帶頭用冤聘的方法任何人怎麼可能而且很多機會很好的人比一些地方我知道有很多地方政府像地方政府他們為了要給這些選手他們用專聘的方法可是有非常多是用約聘中央帶頭來做這怎麼說任何一個運動選手當然不會願意啊你要發展運動技術怎麼可以如此這是縣市的計劃型的教練"},{"start":665.029,"end":670.291,"text":"然後呢 而且我告訴你全部啊 我說運動教練啊 我告訴你欸 署長我都還沒有再講 你們這邊的計畫裡面啊 你看110人 我先舉個例子來 署長先跟我講你們國家運動訓練中心推動精英計畫你們編列了奧運跟亞運選手退役後的教練工作計畫是7800元喔你的決算數 你們執行率不高 而且你們教育部告訴我 等一下我還要講"},{"start":692.8,"end":709.188,"text":"來我告訴你你們就一步告訴我說奧運跟亞運選手要領選一百名肌肉運動選手事實上是每四年才用到這些每四年一百你們寫法讓我們以為每一年有一百包委員是奧運年七十位亞運年三十位你們四年才培訓一百個"},{"start":711.149,"end":734.14,"text":"因為很多的教練他還是當選手所以他保有那個資格但是他在幾年後真正退役了之後才會開始所以你是告訴我四年之後來說我懂但是你們寫的寫法我真的覺得你們是順便這是我們承受非常多運動我們很多的運動教練都要跟我們來反應最重要一句話"},{"start":735.28,"end":763.532,"text":"榮耀之後你要給人家一個非常好的生活保障所以呢你成立之後呢我們還是很希望能夠增加我強調正式專業的運動教練所以呢不是用這個方法往前面我們前面的部分所以說是正式的運動教練包委員現在我們在國立的學校我們都有聘任但是問題是現在縣市的政府願不願意把員人四處來聘任現在主要聘任第一的是在縣市政府的部分"},{"start":763.732,"end":782.514,"text":"那你教育部完全把他甩過給縣市政府縣市政府還有經費上的問題啊計劃型教練都有在支持但是縣市政府不願意的話這部分不是我們中央可以去主導所以你縣市政府不願意的話我們中央就沒有我們還是有去給予補助大家從計劃型先試行然後鼓勵他希望能轉"},{"start":783.095,"end":811.505,"text":"署長如果是這樣子的話一切都是經費給縣市政府然後我們就說這是縣市政府的責任但是我告訴你署長中央還是有這樣否則我們要體育署幹嘛拿到錢給縣市政府縣市政府不願意去做這聘任我們就責任就了了嗎好不好請在這邊這都是很多運動圈給我們持足反應的這東西是非常重要的好謝謝謝謝科智恩委員質詢官員請回座我們接下來有請郭育晴委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":125,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時17分）謝謝召委，我們是不是請鄭部長？"],["主席：請鄭部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員早。"],["柯委員志恩：部長好。我們來看看這個解凍案，在你的書面報告第16案各項教育推廣，我們是凍結了1,000萬，這個項目可以說是包羅萬象，涉及國際跟兩岸的交流，我想部長在5月中的時候，對於兩岸的交流，你的說法是不鼓勵前往大陸交流，甚至是禁止、反對，後來因為這說法引起太多的爭議，部長又開始有不同的說法，那我現在很直白地問部長，今年暑假如果學生想要參加的話，可不可以參加兩岸教育交流活動？"],["鄭部長英耀：教育交流活動基本上依法我是不能反對的，但是我也必須要講，為什麼我不支持、不贊成、不鼓勵？主要是因為來自於陸委會已經在去年就頒布兩岸交流是一個橙色警戒的狀態。"],["柯委員志恩：好。"],["鄭部長英耀：基於教育部要維護我們老師跟學生，因為他的風險是增加的，所以我才會表達說我們不鼓勵。"],["柯委員志恩：好，我們就來看看風險，因為也有很多大學教授不曉得教育部的底線在哪裡，他甚至很怕誤踩地雷讓他們的補助款因而被扣除，所以我們當然要在這個時候就來問一下教育部的態度到底是如何，其實我說實在的，部長，以前杜正勝部長，大家都認為他很綠，可是他其實也沒有在任何的言語公開談話當中去禁止兩岸的交流。現在的情勢當然不一樣，所以我真的還是要問一下部長，你們現在有國際及兩岸教育司，如果部長不鼓勵、不樂見，甚至要禁止的話，我說實在的，你真的是可以把兩岸教育司的名字好好改一下，甚至對於兩岸教育科的部分思考一下還有沒有存留的價值，因為目前為止已經到了這樣子的階段。","然後我還是要問一下，部長之前在中山大學就是因為做得還不錯，部長你了解嗎？你們中山大學裡面有45個姐妹學校，但是有27個學校是跟中國大陸，而且你所俗稱的國防七子，其中當中有3所北京理工、北京航空還有哈爾濱工業，都是跟你們中山大學互為姐妹校。部長，我就想說了，這也不是最近才發生，從你當校長的時候，你有覺得中山大學的關鍵技術有被竊取？或者學生的權益跟彼此互相交流時，你覺得這些科研結果有因為這樣子或甚至是跟對岸締結姐妹校，有被統戰的疑慮嗎？你在當校長的時候，有這樣的疑慮過嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員，我想委員剛剛也特別提到，兩岸的關係確實跟以前……"],["柯委員志恩：沒關係，你就回答鄭英耀校長跟鄭英耀部長的差別。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，因為兩岸包含賴總統在去年就職的時候，所提健康有序的交流，所以我們也積極在考慮有更多的交流，但是因為隨著兩岸的情勢，它真的跟以前不太一樣。"],["柯委員志恩：所以你們中山大學的網站，這3個被我們所禁止的學校還在你們的……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，過去兩岸沒有那麼緊張的情勢，所以這個交流，我們當然是支持的……"],["柯委員志恩：還是支持？"],["鄭部長英耀：我也從來沒有反對，但是因為現在兩岸的情勢真的不同，所以……"],["柯委員志恩：好，那這國防七子還放在你們中山大學這個地方，目前為止，就你的立場來看的話，你覺得這3個學校還需要保留嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們當然在……"],["柯委員志恩：已經被禁止了，而且我再問一下國防七子，7所大學是誰選的？剛剛說有疑慮的是誰選的？是主管大學的教育部所選的還是陸委會？還是國安高層？這7間學校是誰選的？有徵詢過你教育部長的意見嗎？你還是高教出身，有徵詢過大學校長的意見嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，因為兩岸確實關係不一樣。"],["柯委員志恩：沒有啦！我說這7間學校誰選的？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們很清楚，我們許多的科技產業，涉及到產業上的……"],["柯委員志恩：好啦，這7間學校誰選的啦？部長，我下面還有很多問題，這7間學校誰選的？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，是我選的。"],["柯委員志恩：你所選的？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["柯委員志恩：其中還有3個都是你中山大學的。"],["鄭部長英耀：我也非常清楚，因為兩岸的關係不一樣。"],["柯委員志恩：所以在你當校長的時候，你不認為這3間學校有任何統戰的可能，目前為止，中山大學還在愛高雄、愛臺灣，有任何機會嗎？那個時候還存留到現在，你怎麼變成教育部長之後，就認為這3間學校跟你們締結姐妹學校就有問題呢？這個邏輯上很奇怪。"],["鄭部長英耀：我還是跟委員報告，兩岸的情勢不一樣了。"],["柯委員志恩：所以這些學校你可以請中山大學把它撤下來了是不是？還是當姐妹校可以，交流就不可以？你給我們一個底線，這是臺大校長所……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們的交流基本上就是在學術上的交流，只要不涉及、影響我們的科技產業，跟產業上許多的一些……"],["柯委員志恩：部長，我們兩個在這邊已經耗了很多時間，這次臺大校長所提到的，大家都不曉得紅線在哪裡，我也接到非常多大學校長的陳情，共同論文發表可不可以？技術合作可不可以？如果我們在海外的會議當中有跟對岸的學者碰面可不可以？師生互訪可不可以？有疑慮的大學可否一次公布？還有很重要，可不可以要求大學校長共同來討論？還有你說國家關鍵技術可能外流，你說國防七子可能要考慮，北大、清大還有復旦，其他學校交流有沒有這樣的風險？一次講清楚！部長，我不想花時間在這個地方，請你把這個問題跟校長好好溝通清楚可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，事實上北大、清大，我們並沒有反對交流，我們只是希望在交流的過程，機敏的包括我們產業許多的……"],["柯委員志恩：因為界線很難，就像你當鄭英耀「校長」的時候，你認為這3個學校沒有問題；當你當鄭英耀「部長」的時候，它就會背違你的部分。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，時空真的不一樣，兩岸現在情勢……"],["柯委員志恩：你的網站還是一樣啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：兩岸的交流跟我擔任校長的時候是不一樣的。"],["柯委員志恩：我覺得兩岸的交流也沒有什麼不一樣，有些時候是因為為了某些目的或什麼，我同意你要很謹慎，但是我還是強調這是大學校長所整理出來的，請部長好好地為大學校長來釋疑，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，我們可以多跟大學端的校長多建立一些共識……"],["柯委員志恩：本來就是，而且你看520總統演說的時候說要收陸生，請問過去一年當中，成效如何？有嗎？這一年來陸生的成效。"],["鄭部長英耀：目前我們一直保留開放態度，但是……"],["柯委員志恩：但是對方不過來？"],["鄭部長英耀：對。"],["柯委員志恩：這就是因為兩岸之間，連我們認為比較單純的學術交流都已經被畫上政治性的考量，其實沒有信任就沒有這個部分，我剛剛所提到校長所關切的問題請部長好好地回應，否則會讓很多校長很怕因為這樣子刪了他們的補助款，這樣就很不好了。","接下來再來問一下，我們一般性的補助款影響學校還有影響對學生的照顧，部長，你有掌握全國各縣市因為一般性補助款被刪減完之後所造成的影響嗎？「不能窮教育，不能苦孩子」這不是口號，部長有充分地了解嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：因為委員跟我一樣長期都是教育相關的專業，我們也對小孩子的……臺灣沒有天然資源，我們有的就是靠人才的培育……"],["柯委員志恩：完全沒有問題，所以我才說你對22個縣市，因為這樣子……"],["鄭部長英耀：22個縣市，我們對不同縣市裡面的財政，業務單位不管在體育署或者國教署都有充分掌握……"],["柯委員志恩：我告訴你……"],["鄭部長英耀：我們也希望能夠對經費、資源比較少的，給予大力支持。"],["柯委員志恩：對，部長，我不想在這個時候……因為藍綠對於到底是誰造成這樣的結果都有不同的看法，立足點都不一樣，我也不想討論總預算被砍所造成的影響，我只告訴部長，一般性補助款跟學生是非常有關係的，特別是很多縣市對於低收入、中低收入，還有身障學生、安全設備，還有包括中央政府配合支出的新設幼稚園設備、偏鄉補助、雙語實驗，都受到很大的影響。我說實在的，我也不曉得主計處審教育部預算的時候為什麼會做成這樣的決議，在我們認為非常重要的部分，它卻迫使地方政府必須要做這樣的處理，真的對我們來說是非常非常可惡的。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，當財劃法通過的時候，事實上委員現在所列的就是我們在……因為我們知道跟學生權益有關的、跟經濟弱勢有關的或者特殊學生……"],["柯委員志恩：這不能刪啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：我們都沒有刪。"],["柯委員志恩：我們也沒有刪！我們也沒有刪！"],["鄭部長英耀：我們都百分之百按照原來的去補助，只有這一些特殊狀況，我們都完全按照……"],["柯委員志恩：當然要保護，這是學校的命脈基礎！"],["鄭部長英耀：所以我們目前的作法跟委員所提的是一致的……"],["柯委員志恩：好！很好！"],["鄭部長英耀：只有非屬優先順序的我們才配合，因為在636億裡面，我不曉得我們要負擔……"],["柯委員志恩：我告訴你636億當中，我覺得審計部在這部分預算真的是……"],["鄭部長英耀：所以我們才會有後面其他一些比較保留的。"],["柯委員志恩：我只告訴你這些東西都是非常重要的、非常重要！我們在教育及文化委員會裡面也完全是力保這樣的措施。"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員提醒，但是委員的想法跟我們目前所做的是一致的。"],["柯委員志恩：我只希望這些預算都不要因為這些因素而受到非常大的影響，預算有很多，甚至中央預算還可以增列、還可以追加，不應該是匡住這個部分，然後讓我們這些小孩子受到很大影響，這是本席要不斷地補充的。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒，我們的態度是一致的。"],["柯委員志恩：我時間非常有限，我最後再問一個非常重要，運動的部分，因為體育署凍結了2,000萬，但是我還是要強調，你們告訴我們要聘任奧運及亞運選手來擔任教練，但是部長、署長，經費越編越少，而且重要的是預算的執行率非常差，都沒有達到50%，以112年所編的跟決算來說執行率只有46.46%，而且最重要的是，為了經費，中央那時候告訴我們要幫助這些榮耀之後、幫我們國家爭光彩的運動選手轉為運動教練，卻用約聘的方法，中央不應該帶頭用約聘的方法，而且很多是機會很好的人，相比一些地方，我知道有很多地方政府為了這些選手用專聘的方法，可是有非常多是用約聘，中央帶頭來做，這怎麼說？任何運動選手當然不會願意，你要積極發展運動怎麼可以如此？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，你現在提的是國訓中心的轉任還是縣市計畫型的教練？"],["柯委員志恩：然後呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：請問你現在問的是國訓中心的績優教練轉任……"],["柯委員志恩：全部啊！我說運動教練！我告訴你，署長，我都還沒有講，你們的計畫裡面110人，我先舉個例子，你們國家運動訓練中心推動菁英計畫裡面編列的奧運跟亞運選手退役後的教練工作計畫是7,800元，你們執行率不高，而且你們教育部……"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，去年的執行率是94%。"],["柯委員志恩：我告訴你，你們教育部告訴我奧運跟亞運選手要遴選100名績優運動選手，事實上是「每4年」才100，你們的寫法讓我們以為每一年有100。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，是奧運年70位，亞運年30位，去年執行率是94%。"],["柯委員志恩：你們4年才培訓100個，4年100個！"],["鄭署長世忠：因為很多的教練還是當選手，所以他先保有資格，但是在幾年後、真正退役之後才會開始執行。"],["柯委員志恩：所以你是告訴我4年之後來做……"],["鄭署長世忠：還是要保持彈性讓選手可以……"],["柯委員志恩：我懂，但是你們的寫法，我們承受非常多運動……"],["鄭署長世忠：是，報告委員，這部分我們會檢討我們的寫法。"],["柯委員志恩：很多的運動教練都跟我們反映。最重要的一句話，榮耀之後你要給人家一個非常好的生活保障，所以你成立之後，我們還是很希望能夠增加，我強調「正式專業的運動教練」不是用這個方法，是正式的運動教練，而不是約聘的。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，現在我們在國立的學校都有聘任，但是現在問題是縣市政府願不願意把員額釋出來聘任，現在主要聘任低的是在縣市政府的部分。"],["柯委員志恩：你教育部完全甩鍋給縣市政府，縣市政府還有經費上的問題啊！"],["鄭署長世忠：我們甚至付錢讓他們去聘約聘的教練，計畫型教練都有在支持，但是縣市政府不願意，這部分不是我們中央可以去主導。"],["柯委員志恩：所以縣政府不願意，中央就沒有，所以你……"],["鄭署長世忠：我們還是有給予補助，從計畫型先試行，然後鼓勵他，希望能轉正，這個我們都有做。"],["柯委員志恩：署長，如果是這樣，一切都是把經費給縣市政府，然後就說這是縣市政府的責任……"],["鄭署長世忠：這是縣市政府必須要負的責任，因為是縣市政府的缺。"],["柯委員志恩：但是我告訴你，署長，中央還是有責任，否則我們要體育署幹嘛？難道錢給縣市政府，縣市政府不願意去做聘任，我們這責任就了了嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，在職涯輔導的部分我們會努力，謝謝。"],["柯委員志恩：好不好？這都是很多運動教練跟我們十足反映的，這東西是非常重要的。好，謝謝。"],["鄭署長世忠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員質詢，官員請回座。","接下來有請郭昱晴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":410,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-13","speakers":["葛如鈞","柯志恩","郭昱晴","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","葉元之","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","范雲","萬美玲","陳培瑜","張啓楷","林月琴","黃國昌","徐欣瑩","謝龍介","翁曉玲"],"page_start":329,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍案33案","agenda_id":"1145401_00007"}}}