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00:01:04,309\n但是呢在今年3月的時候呢真的我國有加入榮保的是比48.8萬還多85.6萬但是沒有不是在這個就業人口並不是代表他是假農民喔其實他是符合資格的\n\n4\n00:01:05,149 --> 00:01:09,591\n好但是呢這當中的今年3月的時候呢我們這85.6萬當中真的有加入農民退休途徑的只有9.1萬而已差距很大而且呢如果我再擴大包含曾經參加過農退的而且含65歲以上已經領取這個的農民\n\n5\n00:01:25,276 --> 00:01:34,360\n那大概就是就是已經領了農退了已經現在在領農退如果這些人再加進去那大概有11萬而農保當中這85.6萬當中啊自耕農的加保是有到76.1但是呢卻有9.5萬的電農\n\n6\n00:01:43,303 --> 00:02:11,788\n所以本行認為這真的85.6萬當中真正又如果真的有這個優先順序的那個急迫性當然是針對沒有土地的電容因為這塊土地是我的啊我就算我不種了我退休了我土地還可以做一些出租啊或者是再做一些什麼什麼的運用啊但是對電容他耕作了一輩子他沒有土地他就就這樣退可是退了之後他的保障其實是我們應該政府用更大的力量的好\n\n7\n00:02:12,768 --> 00:02:33,921\n好那這個呢我就截取這個郭國文郭委員的他的提案的數據這是他去年113年9月的時候這個農民退休除菁啊當中農保的部分農保可以一直領嗎可以一直加我就可以加到八十幾歲九十幾歲我都可以加但是農保當中未滿65歲的被保人才佔所有農保的27.63%\n\n8\n00:02:39,685 --> 00:02:45,728\n好那這當中呢我這85.6當中呢如果再細算如果是30歲以下20到29歲的青龍他真的有提去提這個融退的部分的才24而已啦所以是非常低其實你的簡報當中有提到\n\n9\n00:02:58,075 --> 00:03:21,587\n好那農民退休儲金是一個保障它是一個這個福利保障喔那現在是1.1我們兩位委員的提案是希望提到1.5那當然政府最早要增加到再增加15.5就是總而你們要如果這兩個法案過的話你們就是要準備農民的這個退休啊這個儲金要達新台幣46點46.5好等於好\n\n10\n00:03:26,269 --> 00:03:43,886\n但是呢增加也沒關係但是本席認為會不會增加農民的再增加農民農退儲金的誘因本席持保留態度那我們就爬數為什麼因為他不確定性高而導致參加意願低啊基層的農民認為精算後我農退的儲金跟勞保的勞年給付相差起來\n\n11\n00:03:48,790 --> 00:03:56,757\n差不多這次老跑來比較高然後加上青榮從榮我30歲從榮我40歲從榮我要一直繳榮退的話我要繳到65歲我才可以退我中間從事了6年之後我想要退我繳了6年的榮退了結果我繳了6年之後我不想再種了\n\n12\n00:04:11,849 --> 00:04:31,081\n那我沒有辦法有一個彈性機制讓我可以把我腳的領回來那我怎麼知道我的農業我一直都可以一直從30歲一直做到65歲因為這個行業的不確定性太高所以對農退的儲金的制度觀望那當然了\n\n13\n00:04:33,003 --> 00:04:45,354\n這個我就爬數一下農民不願參加農退雛精的原因大概有五項第一個我根本不清楚農退雛精的內容第二個我農業收入不穩定我不敢提撥我又要提一方面我要提撥農保我一方面又要提撥農退哇這兩個\n\n14\n00:04:51,299 --> 00:05:11,071\n這個在我收入不穩定的情況之下我不敢提拔我寧願先救我的榮保就好那第三個青榮認為要到65歲才能領這變數太多不像勞保的範疇我只要是勞工身份我現在在A公司我一來到B公司行業都不同我都可以我還是保有我的榮保但是我做榮保不好意思我一定要從容\n\n15\n00:05:12,592 --> 00:05:32,762\n那第四個部分農民的投保老保多年了他不願轉換有些有些青農或者是說中途轉進的農民他就直接投入老保多年了我也不願意轉換成農保再加入農退了因為其實再怎麼加起來都比不上我老保我加入老保的退休的60%\n\n16\n00:05:37,184 --> 00:05:39,705\n而且你也講對了就是要加強宣導農民誤認農退除菁跟老農今天是互製的其實不對的我其實只要有勞保我也有加入65歲之後我可以同時加\n\n17\n00:05:53,260 --> 00:06:09,670\n接受勞保的保障我可以領老農津貼那如果我這65歲以前有加入勞退儲金我其實還是可以領的這三個是可以一起一個可以保障兩個繼續領的就是農退儲金跟老農津貼是可以繼續領的那但是農民會誤沒有誤人所以其實\n\n18\n00:06:10,430 --> 00:06:22,564\n第一個第二個第五個其實都是叫不清楚嘛不清楚他的農退的租金內容我收入也不穩定嘛然後我也不清楚說農退租金跟老農今天是可以同時領的好再來\n\n19\n00:06:25,492 --> 00:06:40,748\n那重點啊還是要對於這個行業有黏著度嘛我對我這個行業有些心外探緊呀所以其實提高誘因在本席都支持這兩位委員的提案但是我覺得農業部你的本業\n\n20\n00:06:41,909 --> 00:06:50,218\n提高這個農業的競爭力其實農業的競爭力不是硬實力是軟實力這是本席一直講什麼叫硬實力就是你的硬體建設其實農業不是這個硬體建設你們的實力是在於軟實力的我的品種權啊\n\n21\n00:07:00,869 --> 00:07:03,971\n我的行銷啊這個才是能夠讓他們賺錢所以其實要提高的是如果本席認同提高國家提撥比例但是在沒有自有農地的電農這9.5來講你要怎麼特別的\n\n22\n00:07:15,639 --> 00:07:32,649\n的保障所以我針對這些原因本席也認為說你應該強化農退租金跟老農經典的政策說明第二個推動農業的智慧化精準化並拓展新市場強化農民的收入第三個你要推動青農職業輔導不僅是吸引青農下鄉更應該提供對接的產銷服務及各級的專家諮詢第四個面對極端氣候的挑戰及市場的開放這本席上次已經都諮詢了\n\n23\n00:07:43,135 --> 00:07:51,501\n希望加速農業科技的軟實力在基因地區資料科學以及AI的應用的升級上縮小我國的經濟作物與國際主要的生產國的成本差距好我們就舉幾個例子日本的麝香葡萄他在2022年的時候發現到中國竊取他的品種這個取名叫做在中國叫做翡翠葡萄在日本叫麝香葡萄結果呢日本認為這是品種權你侵占了好我就告\n\n24\n00:08:12,935 --> 00:08:36,961\n那這個他就用告那相對於紐西蘭的奇異果中國也是竊取他啊讓他損失啦他除了告之外怎麼樣他改變他的商業模式修正他開發新品種變成紅肉的品種而且呢再透過他的品牌行銷就鞏固他的市場所以兩個國家兩個策略一個就是告我不研發新品種一個我告我研發新品種賺的更多\n\n25\n00:08:39,081 --> 00:09:00,047\n那甚至因為他有品牌我在跟中國買我就覺得紐西蘭很厲害沒關係啊那個舊的你拿去中國你拿去之後我給你買來變成我紐西蘭的品牌我賺的更多他反而做代工然後再加上我自己現在在開發的品牌所以這叫做這就是在行銷策略這才是軟實力啊好這是面對市場開放\n\n26\n00:09:01,647 --> 00:09:07,310\n那包括今天豬價我們現在過這個端午節豬價飆高我們已經生產的這個通貨膨脹災災豬價飆高本席了解的豬價飆高的原因是什麼國內的豬仔死亡率過高啊這就是本席主張說豬隻生產的效益低落沒有導入先進的基因定序的原因過去的方法跟技術不是不好而是面對新的挑戰我們需要新的技術跟經驗長期完成農業數據的收集\n\n27\n00:09:31,425 --> 00:09:59,575\n才有科學化智慧化的治理的農業好那我回歸本本席的這個建議啊我認為這兩個人兩位立委的提案非常好但是我覺得要你們要有配套措施才更增加誘因第一個現有的補助方案如何勾結連結你的農民退休儲金譬如說你只要農民啊年輕青龍喔你只要願意來來你願意來加入我農民儲金我就每一年\n\n28\n00:10:00,735 --> 00:10:25,065\n給你農村年輕化的補助我就每一年給你土地友善的補助農地土地友善補助是包括你們返鄉的補助喔有機肥料每年都會補助你只要參加的一天我就補助你一天譬如這樣你要勾基連結你才有誘因嘛好但是這個還不夠第二個你農民退休除菁沒有是非牌付條款所以呢請評估本席最在意的就是沒有土地的\n\n29\n00:10:26,926 --> 00:10:49,147\n電農還有青農你應該相對應的給他保障跟獎獎勵就是彈性結算好譬如說我30歲我做了6年之後我真的做不下去了好啊那你是1比1嘛或者未來的1比1.5啊那我願意結算給你你自己繳的那個1或1.5我全部給你因為儲君有利息我也還給你但\n\n30\n00:10:50,388 --> 00:11:07,813\n我政府的這個一可能我就沒有辦法全部給你了我彈性也許我就給你六成就好我就給你七成就好類似的概念那這樣我算起來我有彈性可以退場機制啊那我政府的損失也沒那麼高因為它本身就是一個福利政策好這樣我們沒有走商業保險所以我就覺得你這個彈性的結算跟保障\n\n31\n00:11:14,415 --> 00:11:36,750\n我覺得你是要考量的那針對扣結你現在對於青農啊跟土地友善的你只要願意參加除青我就每一年補助給你我覺得這樣才會讓兩位委員的美意大大的提高你的退休除青的這個參與力當然最後我要提出這個上次我質詢我希望你們在6月18號這是你們引落我的喔引落本席的喔針對國際農業先進國家的基因地區在農\n\n32\n00:11:45,136 --> 00:11:58,531\n魚醋葉在台灣你給我提出一個品種參考國際先進的國家的他們的基因定序應用成功的案例提出來你們具體執行的方案好針對這三點部長您回應一下謝謝委員非常\n\n33\n00:11:59,292 --> 00:12:22,987\n深入的這些分析跟建議我先針對最後一點就618號我們一定會有一個很完整的因為我已經親自去督導他們特別在畜牧業裡面的養豬的部分如何利用基因體育種的方式或者是篩選的方式讓我們的豬隻更健康這第一點那第二點的部分就是您剛才講的彈性結算的部分那依現在來講我們是65歲才可以嘛\n\n34\n00:12:23,447 --> 00:12:45,582\n那勞工的部分因為他可以不同的轉可以不同的帶著走但是農業只有一個農業而已所以我覺得這個東西我也會請我們的同仁就是彈性結算但是只還他的啦政府的部分因為他還沒到65歲嘛這個我們再來看看說我覺得不要跟農民叫因為你現在要開辦所以我已經講明了政府的部分你可以佐與\n\n35\n00:12:46,903 --> 00:12:51,385\n所以你不要全部都退喔我真的就沒誘因喔就是農民你不可以有損失啦那個1比1的我農民繳的1你一定要全部還給我本金跟利息你也不要跟農民計較因為他是儲金講明了就是有利息的所以你要還給農民儲金好那政府繳的那個1\n\n36\n00:13:06,832 --> 00:13:12,636\n那你也不要全部收回去譬如說你們看有一個比例按照你的加入的年份也好譬如說你加入10年我就只給你30%那你加入20年我政府就只退得更少這樣子\n\n37\n00:13:26,767 --> 00:13:30,330\n這都是彈性但是你不要一次全部你懂我意思嗎然後你的政策一定要勾基你的容退譬如說我每年都有有機肥料補助欸我只要加入這個容退途徑我就可以每年都有有機肥料的補助\n\n38\n00:13:45,060 --> 00:14:02,855\n那這也是一個很好啊也是鼓勵在有機肥料的使用啊輕容返鄉我們特別就希望特別輕容返鄉就有相關的補助啊所以你就應該勾結起來這樣他的意願就會高然後這再加上彈性的結算跟相關的保障而且譬如說你是電容的跟輕容的\n\n39\n00:14:03,876 --> 00:14:11,502\n那我就特別的我特別在這個你的什麼機制上給你在這個農民退休儲金的部分你就可以怎麼樣的特別給他保障這也是可以想的啊譬如說你的1比1當中如果你是電農那我就給你政府退的我就退少一點可以退多一點給你也是一種獎勵啊這個我們會來方法很多啦所以這是一個誘因好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13032\t13596\t好,有請部長陳部長\n21392\t45298\t好 這個我們怎麼來活化農退啊農民退休的這個保障機制這個政策工具是改變民眾行為的方法那我們來看現在農民退休儲金的這個加入退休儲金的狀況這些都是官方數據主計處在今年3月的時候針對農林榆木的就業實質就業是48.8萬\n48279\t64309\t但是呢在今年3月的時候呢真的我國有加入榮保的是比48.8萬還多85.6萬但是沒有不是在這個就業人口並不是代表他是假農民喔其實他是符合資格的\n65149\t69591\t好但是呢這當中的今年3月的時候呢我們這85.6萬當中真的有加入農民退休途徑的只有9.1萬而已差距很大而且呢如果我再擴大包含曾經參加過農退的而且含65歲以上已經領取這個的農民\n85276\t94360\t那大概就是就是已經領了農退了已經現在在領農退如果這些人再加進去那大概有11萬而農保當中這85.6萬當中啊自耕農的加保是有到76.1但是呢卻有9.5萬的電農\n103303\t131788\t所以本行認為這真的85.6萬當中真正又如果真的有這個優先順序的那個急迫性當然是針對沒有土地的電容因為這塊土地是我的啊我就算我不種了我退休了我土地還可以做一些出租啊或者是再做一些什麼什麼的運用啊但是對電容他耕作了一輩子他沒有土地他就就這樣退可是退了之後他的保障其實是我們應該政府用更大的力量的好\n132768\t153921\t好那這個呢我就截取這個郭國文郭委員的他的提案的數據這是他去年113年9月的時候這個農民退休除菁啊當中農保的部分農保可以一直領嗎可以一直加我就可以加到八十幾歲九十幾歲我都可以加但是農保當中未滿65歲的被保人才佔所有農保的27.63%\n159685\t165728\t好 那這當中呢 我這85.6當中呢 如果再細算如果是30歲以下 20到29歲的青龍他真的有提 去提這個融退的部分的 才24而已啦所以是非常低 其實你的簡報當中有提到\n178075\t201587\t好那農民退休儲金是一個保障它是一個這個福利保障喔那現在是1.1我們兩位委員的提案是希望提到1.5那當然政府最早要增加到再增加15.5就是總而你們要如果這兩個法案過的話你們就是要準備農民的這個退休啊這個儲金要達新台幣46點46.5好等於好\n206269\t223886\t但是呢增加也沒關係但是本席認為會不會增加農民的再增加農民農退儲金的誘因本席持保留態度那我們就爬數為什麼因為他不確定性高而導致參加意願低啊基層的農民認為精算後我農退的儲金跟勞保的勞年給付相差起來\n228790\t236757\t差不多 這次老跑來比較高然後加上青榮從榮 我30歲從榮 我40歲從榮我要一直繳榮退的話 我要繳到65歲我才可以退 我中間從事了6年之後我想要退 我繳了6年的榮退了結果我繳了6年之後 我不想再種了\n251849\t271081\t那我沒有辦法有一個彈性機制讓我可以把我腳的領回來那我怎麼知道我的農業我一直都可以一直從30歲一直做到65歲因為這個行業的不確定性太高所以對農退的儲金的制度觀望那當然了\n273003\t285354\t這個我就爬數一下 農民不願參加農退雛精的原因大概有五項第一個我根本不清楚農退雛精的內容第二個我農業收入不穩定我不敢提撥我又要提 一方面我要提撥農保我一方面又要提撥農退哇 這兩個\n291299\t311071\t這個在我收入不穩定的情況之下我不敢提拔我寧願先救我的榮保就好那第三個青榮認為要到65歲才能領這變數太多不像勞保的範疇我只要是勞工身份我現在在A公司我一來到B公司行業都不同我都可以我還是保有我的榮保但是我做榮保不好意思我一定要從容\n312592\t332762\t那第四個部分農民的投保老保多年了他不願轉換有些有些青農或者是說中途轉進的農民他就直接投入老保多年了我也不願意轉換成農保再加入農退了因為其實再怎麼加起來都比不上我老保我加入老保的退休的60%\n337184\t339705\t而且你也講對了 就是要加強宣導農民誤認農退除菁跟老農今天是互製的 其實不對的我其實只要有勞保 我也有加入65歲之後我可以同時加\n353260\t369670\t接受勞保的保障我可以領老農津貼那如果我這65歲以前有加入勞退儲金我其實還是可以領的這三個是可以一起一個可以保障兩個繼續領的就是農退儲金跟老農津貼是可以繼續領的那但是農民會誤沒有誤人所以其實\n370430\t382564\t第一個 第二個 第五個其實都是叫不清楚嘛不清楚他的農退的租金內容我收入也不穩定嘛然後我也不清楚說農退租金跟老農今天是可以同時領的好 再來\n385492\t400748\t那重點啊還是要對於這個行業有黏著度嘛我對我這個行業有些心外探緊呀所以其實提高誘因在本席都支持這兩位委員的提案但是我覺得農業部你的本業\n401909\t410218\t提高這個農業的競爭力其實農業的競爭力不是硬實力是軟實力 這是本席一直講什麼叫硬實力 就是你的硬體建設其實農業不是這個硬體建設你們的實力是在於軟實力的 我的品種權啊\n420869\t423971\t我的行銷啊這個才是能夠讓他們賺錢所以其實要提高的是如果本席認同提高國家提撥比例但是在沒有自有農地的電農這9.5來講你要怎麼特別的\n435639\t452649\t的保障所以我針對這些原因本席也認為說你應該強化農退租金跟老農經典的政策說明第二個推動農業的智慧化精準化並拓展新市場強化農民的收入第三個你要推動青農職業輔導不僅是吸引青農下鄉更應該提供對接的產銷服務及各級的專家諮詢第四個面對極端氣候的挑戰及市場的開放這本席上次已經都諮詢了\n463135\t471501\t希望加速農業科技的軟實力在基因地區資料科學以及AI的應用的升級上縮小我國的經濟作物與國際主要的生產國的成本差距好我們就舉幾個例子日本的麝香葡萄他在2022年的時候發現到中國竊取他的品種這個取名叫做在中國叫做翡翠葡萄在日本叫麝香葡萄結果呢日本認為這是品種權你侵占了好我就告\n492935\t516961\t那這個他就用告那相對於紐西蘭的奇異果中國也是竊取他啊讓他損失啦他除了告之外怎麼樣他改變他的商業模式修正他開發新品種變成紅肉的品種而且呢再透過他的品牌行銷就鞏固他的市場所以兩個國家兩個策略一個就是告我不研發新品種一個我告我研發新品種賺的更多\n519081\t540047\t那甚至因為他有品牌我在跟中國買我就覺得紐西蘭很厲害沒關係啊 那個舊的你拿去 中國你拿去之後我給你買來變成我紐西蘭的品牌我賺的更多他反而做代工然後再加上我自己現在在開發的品牌所以這叫做這就是在行銷策略這才是軟實力啊好 這是面對市場開放\n541647\t547310\t那包括今天豬價我們現在過這個端午節豬價飆高我們已經生產的這個通貨膨脹災災豬價飆高本席了解的豬價飆高的原因是什麼國內的豬仔死亡率過高啊這就是本席主張說豬隻生產的效益低落沒有導入先進的基因定序的原因過去的方法跟技術不是不好而是面對新的挑戰我們需要新的技術跟經驗長期完成農業數據的收集\n571425\t599575\t才有科學化智慧化的治理的農業好那我回歸本本席的這個建議啊我認為這兩個人兩位立委的提案非常好但是我覺得要你們要有配套措施才更增加誘因第一個現有的補助方案如何勾結連結你的農民退休儲金譬如說你只要農民啊年輕青龍喔你只要願意來來你願意來加入我農民儲金我就每一年\n600735\t625065\t給你農村年輕化的補助我就每一年給你土地友善的補助農地土地友善補助是包括你們返鄉的補助喔有機肥料每年都會補助你只要參加的一天我就補助你一天譬如這樣你要勾基連結你才有誘因嘛好但是這個還不夠第二個你農民退休除菁沒有是非牌付條款所以呢請評估本席最在意的就是沒有土地的\n626926\t649147\t電農還有青農你應該相對應的給他保障跟獎獎勵就是彈性結算好譬如說我30歲我做了6年之後我真的做不下去了好啊那你是1比1嘛或者未來的1比1.5啊那我願意結算給你你自己繳的那個1或1.5我全部給你因為儲君有利息我也還給你但\n650388\t667813\t我政府的這個一可能我就沒有辦法全部給你了我彈性也許我就給你六成就好我就給你七成就好類似的概念那這樣我算起來我有彈性可以退場機制啊那我政府的損失也沒那麼高因為它本身就是一個福利政策好 這樣我們沒有走商業保險所以我就覺得你這個彈性的結算跟保障\n674415\t696750\t我覺得你是要考量的那針對扣結你現在對於青農啊跟土地友善的你只要願意參加除青我就每一年補助給你我覺得這樣才會讓兩位委員的美意大大的提高你的退休除青的這個參與力當然最後我要提出這個上次我質詢我希望你們在6月18號這是你們引落我的喔引落本席的喔針對國際農業先進國家的基因地區在農\n705136\t718531\t魚 醋葉在台灣你給我提出一個品種參考國際先進的國家的他們的基因定序應用成功的案例提出來你們具體執行的方案好 針對這三點部長您回應一下謝謝委員非常\n719292\t742987\t深入的這些分析跟建議我先針對最後一點就618號我們一定會有一個很完整的因為我已經親自去督導他們特別在畜牧業裡面的養豬的部分如何利用基因體育種的方式或者是篩選的方式讓我們的豬隻更健康這第一點那第二點的部分就是您剛才講的彈性結算的部分那依現在來講我們是65歲才可以嘛\n743447\t765582\t那勞工的部分因為他可以不同的轉可以不同的帶著走但是農業只有一個農業而已所以我覺得這個東西我也會請我們的同仁就是彈性結算但是只還他的啦政府的部分因為他還沒到65歲嘛這個我們再來看看說我覺得不要跟農民叫因為你現在要開辦所以我已經講明了政府的部分你可以佐與\n766903\t771385\t所以你不要全部都退喔我真的就沒誘因喔就是農民你不可以有損失啦那個1比1的我農民繳的1你一定要全部還給我本金跟利息你也不要跟農民計較因為他是儲金講明了就是有利息的所以你要還給農民儲金好那政府繳的那個1\n786832\t792636\t那你也不要全部收回去 譬如說你們看有一個比例 按照你的加入的年份也好譬如說你加入10年 我就只給你30%那你加入20年 我政府就只退得更少這樣子\n806767\t810330\t這都是彈性 但是你不要一次全部你懂我意思嗎然後你的政策一定要勾基你的容退譬如說我每年都有有機肥料補助欸我只要加入這個容退途徑我就可以每年都有有機肥料的補助\n825060\t842855\t那這也是一個很好啊 也是鼓勵在有機肥料的使用啊 輕容返鄉我們特別就希望特別輕容返鄉就有相關的補助啊所以你就應該勾結起來 這樣他的意願就會高然後這再加上彈性的結算跟相關的保障 而且譬如說你是電容的跟輕容的\n843876\t851502\t那我就特別的 我特別在這個你的什麼機制上給你在這個農民退休儲金的部分你就可以怎麼樣的特別給他保障 這也是可以想的啊譬如說你的1比1當中 如果你是電農那我就給你政府退的 我就退少一點可以退多一點給你 也是一種獎勵啊這個我們會來 方法很多啦所以這是一個誘因 好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"好,有請部長陳部長\n好 這個我們怎麼來活化農退啊農民退休的這個保障機制這個政策工具是改變民眾行為的方法那我們來看現在農民退休儲金的這個加入退休儲金的狀況這些都是官方數據主計處在今年3月的時候針對農林榆木的就業實質就業是48.8萬\n但是呢在今年3月的時候呢真的我國有加入榮保的是比48.8萬還多85.6萬但是沒有不是在這個就業人口並不是代表他是假農民喔其實他是符合資格的\n好但是呢這當中的今年3月的時候呢我們這85.6萬當中真的有加入農民退休途徑的只有9.1萬而已差距很大而且呢如果我再擴大包含曾經參加過農退的而且含65歲以上已經領取這個的農民\n那大概就是就是已經領了農退了已經現在在領農退如果這些人再加進去那大概有11萬而農保當中這85.6萬當中啊自耕農的加保是有到76.1但是呢卻有9.5萬的電農\n所以本行認為這真的85.6萬當中真正又如果真的有這個優先順序的那個急迫性當然是針對沒有土地的電容因為這塊土地是我的啊我就算我不種了我退休了我土地還可以做一些出租啊或者是再做一些什麼什麼的運用啊但是對電容他耕作了一輩子他沒有土地他就就這樣退可是退了之後他的保障其實是我們應該政府用更大的力量的好\n好那這個呢我就截取這個郭國文郭委員的他的提案的數據這是他去年113年9月的時候這個農民退休除菁啊當中農保的部分農保可以一直領嗎可以一直加我就可以加到八十幾歲九十幾歲我都可以加但是農保當中未滿65歲的被保人才佔所有農保的27.63%\n好 那這當中呢 我這85.6當中呢 如果再細算如果是30歲以下 20到29歲的青龍他真的有提 去提這個融退的部分的 才24而已啦所以是非常低 其實你的簡報當中有提到\n好那農民退休儲金是一個保障它是一個這個福利保障喔那現在是1.1我們兩位委員的提案是希望提到1.5那當然政府最早要增加到再增加15.5就是總而你們要如果這兩個法案過的話你們就是要準備農民的這個退休啊這個儲金要達新台幣46點46.5好等於好\n但是呢增加也沒關係但是本席認為會不會增加農民的再增加農民農退儲金的誘因本席持保留態度那我們就爬數為什麼因為他不確定性高而導致參加意願低啊基層的農民認為精算後我農退的儲金跟勞保的勞年給付相差起來\n差不多 這次老跑來比較高然後加上青榮從榮 我30歲從榮 我40歲從榮我要一直繳榮退的話 我要繳到65歲我才可以退 我中間從事了6年之後我想要退 我繳了6年的榮退了結果我繳了6年之後 我不想再種了\n那我沒有辦法有一個彈性機制讓我可以把我腳的領回來那我怎麼知道我的農業我一直都可以一直從30歲一直做到65歲因為這個行業的不確定性太高所以對農退的儲金的制度觀望那當然了\n這個我就爬數一下 農民不願參加農退雛精的原因大概有五項第一個我根本不清楚農退雛精的內容第二個我農業收入不穩定我不敢提撥我又要提 一方面我要提撥農保我一方面又要提撥農退哇 這兩個\n這個在我收入不穩定的情況之下我不敢提拔我寧願先救我的榮保就好那第三個青榮認為要到65歲才能領這變數太多不像勞保的範疇我只要是勞工身份我現在在A公司我一來到B公司行業都不同我都可以我還是保有我的榮保但是我做榮保不好意思我一定要從容\n那第四個部分農民的投保老保多年了他不願轉換有些有些青農或者是說中途轉進的農民他就直接投入老保多年了我也不願意轉換成農保再加入農退了因為其實再怎麼加起來都比不上我老保我加入老保的退休的60%\n而且你也講對了 就是要加強宣導農民誤認農退除菁跟老農今天是互製的 其實不對的我其實只要有勞保 我也有加入65歲之後我可以同時加\n接受勞保的保障我可以領老農津貼那如果我這65歲以前有加入勞退儲金我其實還是可以領的這三個是可以一起一個可以保障兩個繼續領的就是農退儲金跟老農津貼是可以繼續領的那但是農民會誤沒有誤人所以其實\n第一個 第二個 第五個其實都是叫不清楚嘛不清楚他的農退的租金內容我收入也不穩定嘛然後我也不清楚說農退租金跟老農今天是可以同時領的好 再來\n那重點啊還是要對於這個行業有黏著度嘛我對我這個行業有些心外探緊呀所以其實提高誘因在本席都支持這兩位委員的提案但是我覺得農業部你的本業\n提高這個農業的競爭力其實農業的競爭力不是硬實力是軟實力 這是本席一直講什麼叫硬實力 就是你的硬體建設其實農業不是這個硬體建設你們的實力是在於軟實力的 我的品種權啊\n我的行銷啊這個才是能夠讓他們賺錢所以其實要提高的是如果本席認同提高國家提撥比例但是在沒有自有農地的電農這9.5來講你要怎麼特別的\n的保障所以我針對這些原因本席也認為說你應該強化農退租金跟老農經典的政策說明第二個推動農業的智慧化精準化並拓展新市場強化農民的收入第三個你要推動青農職業輔導不僅是吸引青農下鄉更應該提供對接的產銷服務及各級的專家諮詢第四個面對極端氣候的挑戰及市場的開放這本席上次已經都諮詢了\n希望加速農業科技的軟實力在基因地區資料科學以及AI的應用的升級上縮小我國的經濟作物與國際主要的生產國的成本差距好我們就舉幾個例子日本的麝香葡萄他在2022年的時候發現到中國竊取他的品種這個取名叫做在中國叫做翡翠葡萄在日本叫麝香葡萄結果呢日本認為這是品種權你侵占了好我就告\n那這個他就用告那相對於紐西蘭的奇異果中國也是竊取他啊讓他損失啦他除了告之外怎麼樣他改變他的商業模式修正他開發新品種變成紅肉的品種而且呢再透過他的品牌行銷就鞏固他的市場所以兩個國家兩個策略一個就是告我不研發新品種一個我告我研發新品種賺的更多\n那甚至因為他有品牌我在跟中國買我就覺得紐西蘭很厲害沒關係啊 那個舊的你拿去 中國你拿去之後我給你買來變成我紐西蘭的品牌我賺的更多他反而做代工然後再加上我自己現在在開發的品牌所以這叫做這就是在行銷策略這才是軟實力啊好 這是面對市場開放\n那包括今天豬價我們現在過這個端午節豬價飆高我們已經生產的這個通貨膨脹災災豬價飆高本席了解的豬價飆高的原因是什麼國內的豬仔死亡率過高啊這就是本席主張說豬隻生產的效益低落沒有導入先進的基因定序的原因過去的方法跟技術不是不好而是面對新的挑戰我們需要新的技術跟經驗長期完成農業數據的收集\n才有科學化智慧化的治理的農業好那我回歸本本席的這個建議啊我認為這兩個人兩位立委的提案非常好但是我覺得要你們要有配套措施才更增加誘因第一個現有的補助方案如何勾結連結你的農民退休儲金譬如說你只要農民啊年輕青龍喔你只要願意來來你願意來加入我農民儲金我就每一年\n給你農村年輕化的補助我就每一年給你土地友善的補助農地土地友善補助是包括你們返鄉的補助喔有機肥料每年都會補助你只要參加的一天我就補助你一天譬如這樣你要勾基連結你才有誘因嘛好但是這個還不夠第二個你農民退休除菁沒有是非牌付條款所以呢請評估本席最在意的就是沒有土地的\n電農還有青農你應該相對應的給他保障跟獎獎勵就是彈性結算好譬如說我30歲我做了6年之後我真的做不下去了好啊那你是1比1嘛或者未來的1比1.5啊那我願意結算給你你自己繳的那個1或1.5我全部給你因為儲君有利息我也還給你但\n我政府的這個一可能我就沒有辦法全部給你了我彈性也許我就給你六成就好我就給你七成就好類似的概念那這樣我算起來我有彈性可以退場機制啊那我政府的損失也沒那麼高因為它本身就是一個福利政策好 這樣我們沒有走商業保險所以我就覺得你這個彈性的結算跟保障\n我覺得你是要考量的那針對扣結你現在對於青農啊跟土地友善的你只要願意參加除青我就每一年補助給你我覺得這樣才會讓兩位委員的美意大大的提高你的退休除青的這個參與力當然最後我要提出這個上次我質詢我希望你們在6月18號這是你們引落我的喔引落本席的喔針對國際農業先進國家的基因地區在農\n魚 醋葉在台灣你給我提出一個品種參考國際先進的國家的他們的基因定序應用成功的案例提出來你們具體執行的方案好 針對這三點部長您回應一下謝謝委員非常\n深入的這些分析跟建議我先針對最後一點就618號我們一定會有一個很完整的因為我已經親自去督導他們特別在畜牧業裡面的養豬的部分如何利用基因體育種的方式或者是篩選的方式讓我們的豬隻更健康這第一點那第二點的部分就是您剛才講的彈性結算的部分那依現在來講我們是65歲才可以嘛\n那勞工的部分因為他可以不同的轉可以不同的帶著走但是農業只有一個農業而已所以我覺得這個東西我也會請我們的同仁就是彈性結算但是只還他的啦政府的部分因為他還沒到65歲嘛這個我們再來看看說我覺得不要跟農民叫因為你現在要開辦所以我已經講明了政府的部分你可以佐與\n所以你不要全部都退喔我真的就沒誘因喔就是農民你不可以有損失啦那個1比1的我農民繳的1你一定要全部還給我本金跟利息你也不要跟農民計較因為他是儲金講明了就是有利息的所以你要還給農民儲金好那政府繳的那個1\n那你也不要全部收回去 譬如說你們看有一個比例 按照你的加入的年份也好譬如說你加入10年 我就只給你30%那你加入20年 我政府就只退得更少這樣子\n這都是彈性 但是你不要一次全部你懂我意思嗎然後你的政策一定要勾基你的容退譬如說我每年都有有機肥料補助欸我只要加入這個容退途徑我就可以每年都有有機肥料的補助\n那這也是一個很好啊 也是鼓勵在有機肥料的使用啊 輕容返鄉我們特別就希望特別輕容返鄉就有相關的補助啊所以你就應該勾結起來 這樣他的意願就會高然後這再加上彈性的結算跟相關的保障 而且譬如說你是電容的跟輕容的\n那我就特別的 我特別在這個你的什麼機制上給你在這個農民退休儲金的部分你就可以怎麼樣的特別給他保障 這也是可以想的啊譬如說你的1比1當中 如果你是電農那我就給你政府退的 我就退少一點可以退多一點給你 也是一種獎勵啊這個我們會來 方法很多啦所以這是一個誘因 好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.032 --> 00:13.596\n好,有請部長陳部長\n\n00:21.392 --> 00:45.298\n好這個我們怎麼來活化農退啊農民退休的這個保障機制這個政策工具是改變民眾行為的方法那我們來看現在農民退休儲金的這個加入退休儲金的狀況這些都是官方數據主計處在今年3月的時候針對農林榆木的就業實質就業是48.8萬\n\n00:48.279 --> 01:04.309\n但是呢在今年3月的時候呢真的我國有加入榮保的是比48.8萬還多85.6萬但是沒有不是在這個就業人口並不是代表他是假農民喔其實他是符合資格的\n\n01:05.149 --> 01:09.591\n好但是呢這當中的今年3月的時候呢我們這85.6萬當中真的有加入農民退休途徑的只有9.1萬而已差距很大而且呢如果我再擴大包含曾經參加過農退的而且含65歲以上已經領取這個的農民\n\n01:25.276 --> 01:34.360\n那大概就是就是已經領了農退了已經現在在領農退如果這些人再加進去那大概有11萬而農保當中這85.6萬當中啊自耕農的加保是有到76.1但是呢卻有9.5萬的電農\n\n01:43.303 --> 02:11.788\n所以本行認為這真的85.6萬當中真正又如果真的有這個優先順序的那個急迫性當然是針對沒有土地的電容因為這塊土地是我的啊我就算我不種了我退休了我土地還可以做一些出租啊或者是再做一些什麼什麼的運用啊但是對電容他耕作了一輩子他沒有土地他就就這樣退可是退了之後他的保障其實是我們應該政府用更大的力量的好\n\n02:12.768 --> 02:33.921\n好那這個呢我就截取這個郭國文郭委員的他的提案的數據這是他去年113年9月的時候這個農民退休除菁啊當中農保的部分農保可以一直領嗎可以一直加我就可以加到八十幾歲九十幾歲我都可以加但是農保當中未滿65歲的被保人才佔所有農保的27.63%\n\n02:39.685 --> 02:45.728\n好那這當中呢我這85.6當中呢如果再細算如果是30歲以下20到29歲的青龍他真的有提去提這個融退的部分的才24而已啦所以是非常低其實你的簡報當中有提到\n\n02:58.075 --> 03:21.587\n好那農民退休儲金是一個保障它是一個這個福利保障喔那現在是1.1我們兩位委員的提案是希望提到1.5那當然政府最早要增加到再增加15.5就是總而你們要如果這兩個法案過的話你們就是要準備農民的這個退休啊這個儲金要達新台幣46點46.5好等於好\n\n03:26.269 --> 03:43.886\n但是呢增加也沒關係但是本席認為會不會增加農民的再增加農民農退儲金的誘因本席持保留態度那我們就爬數為什麼因為他不確定性高而導致參加意願低啊基層的農民認為精算後我農退的儲金跟勞保的勞年給付相差起來\n\n03:48.790 --> 03:56.757\n差不多這次老跑來比較高然後加上青榮從榮我30歲從榮我40歲從榮我要一直繳榮退的話我要繳到65歲我才可以退我中間從事了6年之後我想要退我繳了6年的榮退了結果我繳了6年之後我不想再種了\n\n04:11.849 --> 04:31.081\n那我沒有辦法有一個彈性機制讓我可以把我腳的領回來那我怎麼知道我的農業我一直都可以一直從30歲一直做到65歲因為這個行業的不確定性太高所以對農退的儲金的制度觀望那當然了\n\n04:33.003 --> 04:45.354\n這個我就爬數一下農民不願參加農退雛精的原因大概有五項第一個我根本不清楚農退雛精的內容第二個我農業收入不穩定我不敢提撥我又要提一方面我要提撥農保我一方面又要提撥農退哇這兩個\n\n04:51.299 --> 05:11.071\n這個在我收入不穩定的情況之下我不敢提拔我寧願先救我的榮保就好那第三個青榮認為要到65歲才能領這變數太多不像勞保的範疇我只要是勞工身份我現在在A公司我一來到B公司行業都不同我都可以我還是保有我的榮保但是我做榮保不好意思我一定要從容\n\n05:12.592 --> 05:32.762\n那第四個部分農民的投保老保多年了他不願轉換有些有些青農或者是說中途轉進的農民他就直接投入老保多年了我也不願意轉換成農保再加入農退了因為其實再怎麼加起來都比不上我老保我加入老保的退休的60%\n\n05:37.184 --> 05:39.705\n而且你也講對了就是要加強宣導農民誤認農退除菁跟老農今天是互製的其實不對的我其實只要有勞保我也有加入65歲之後我可以同時加\n\n05:53.260 --> 06:09.670\n接受勞保的保障我可以領老農津貼那如果我這65歲以前有加入勞退儲金我其實還是可以領的這三個是可以一起一個可以保障兩個繼續領的就是農退儲金跟老農津貼是可以繼續領的那但是農民會誤沒有誤人所以其實\n\n06:10.430 --> 06:22.564\n第一個第二個第五個其實都是叫不清楚嘛不清楚他的農退的租金內容我收入也不穩定嘛然後我也不清楚說農退租金跟老農今天是可以同時領的好再來\n\n06:25.492 --> 06:40.748\n那重點啊還是要對於這個行業有黏著度嘛我對我這個行業有些心外探緊呀所以其實提高誘因在本席都支持這兩位委員的提案但是我覺得農業部你的本業\n\n06:41.909 --> 06:50.218\n提高這個農業的競爭力其實農業的競爭力不是硬實力是軟實力這是本席一直講什麼叫硬實力就是你的硬體建設其實農業不是這個硬體建設你們的實力是在於軟實力的我的品種權啊\n\n07:00.869 --> 07:03.971\n我的行銷啊這個才是能夠讓他們賺錢所以其實要提高的是如果本席認同提高國家提撥比例但是在沒有自有農地的電農這9.5來講你要怎麼特別的\n\n07:15.639 --> 07:32.649\n的保障所以我針對這些原因本席也認為說你應該強化農退租金跟老農經典的政策說明第二個推動農業的智慧化精準化並拓展新市場強化農民的收入第三個你要推動青農職業輔導不僅是吸引青農下鄉更應該提供對接的產銷服務及各級的專家諮詢第四個面對極端氣候的挑戰及市場的開放這本席上次已經都諮詢了\n\n07:43.135 --> 07:51.501\n希望加速農業科技的軟實力在基因地區資料科學以及AI的應用的升級上縮小我國的經濟作物與國際主要的生產國的成本差距好我們就舉幾個例子日本的麝香葡萄他在2022年的時候發現到中國竊取他的品種這個取名叫做在中國叫做翡翠葡萄在日本叫麝香葡萄結果呢日本認為這是品種權你侵占了好我就告\n\n08:12.935 --> 08:36.961\n那這個他就用告那相對於紐西蘭的奇異果中國也是竊取他啊讓他損失啦他除了告之外怎麼樣他改變他的商業模式修正他開發新品種變成紅肉的品種而且呢再透過他的品牌行銷就鞏固他的市場所以兩個國家兩個策略一個就是告我不研發新品種一個我告我研發新品種賺的更多\n\n08:39.081 --> 09:00.047\n那甚至因為他有品牌我在跟中國買我就覺得紐西蘭很厲害沒關係啊那個舊的你拿去中國你拿去之後我給你買來變成我紐西蘭的品牌我賺的更多他反而做代工然後再加上我自己現在在開發的品牌所以這叫做這就是在行銷策略這才是軟實力啊好這是面對市場開放\n\n09:01.647 --> 09:07.310\n那包括今天豬價我們現在過這個端午節豬價飆高我們已經生產的這個通貨膨脹災災豬價飆高本席了解的豬價飆高的原因是什麼國內的豬仔死亡率過高啊這就是本席主張說豬隻生產的效益低落沒有導入先進的基因定序的原因過去的方法跟技術不是不好而是面對新的挑戰我們需要新的技術跟經驗長期完成農業數據的收集\n\n09:31.425 --> 09:59.575\n才有科學化智慧化的治理的農業好那我回歸本本席的這個建議啊我認為這兩個人兩位立委的提案非常好但是我覺得要你們要有配套措施才更增加誘因第一個現有的補助方案如何勾結連結你的農民退休儲金譬如說你只要農民啊年輕青龍喔你只要願意來來你願意來加入我農民儲金我就每一年\n\n10:00.735 --> 10:25.065\n給你農村年輕化的補助我就每一年給你土地友善的補助農地土地友善補助是包括你們返鄉的補助喔有機肥料每年都會補助你只要參加的一天我就補助你一天譬如這樣你要勾基連結你才有誘因嘛好但是這個還不夠第二個你農民退休除菁沒有是非牌付條款所以呢請評估本席最在意的就是沒有土地的\n\n10:26.926 --> 10:49.147\n電農還有青農你應該相對應的給他保障跟獎獎勵就是彈性結算好譬如說我30歲我做了6年之後我真的做不下去了好啊那你是1比1嘛或者未來的1比1.5啊那我願意結算給你你自己繳的那個1或1.5我全部給你因為儲君有利息我也還給你但\n\n10:50.388 --> 11:07.813\n我政府的這個一可能我就沒有辦法全部給你了我彈性也許我就給你六成就好我就給你七成就好類似的概念那這樣我算起來我有彈性可以退場機制啊那我政府的損失也沒那麼高因為它本身就是一個福利政策好這樣我們沒有走商業保險所以我就覺得你這個彈性的結算跟保障\n\n11:14.415 --> 11:36.750\n我覺得你是要考量的那針對扣結你現在對於青農啊跟土地友善的你只要願意參加除青我就每一年補助給你我覺得這樣才會讓兩位委員的美意大大的提高你的退休除青的這個參與力當然最後我要提出這個上次我質詢我希望你們在6月18號這是你們引落我的喔引落本席的喔針對國際農業先進國家的基因地區在農\n\n11:45.136 --> 11:58.531\n魚醋葉在台灣你給我提出一個品種參考國際先進的國家的他們的基因定序應用成功的案例提出來你們具體執行的方案好針對這三點部長您回應一下謝謝委員非常\n\n11:59.292 --> 12:22.987\n深入的這些分析跟建議我先針對最後一點就618號我們一定會有一個很完整的因為我已經親自去督導他們特別在畜牧業裡面的養豬的部分如何利用基因體育種的方式或者是篩選的方式讓我們的豬隻更健康這第一點那第二點的部分就是您剛才講的彈性結算的部分那依現在來講我們是65歲才可以嘛\n\n12:23.447 --> 12:45.582\n那勞工的部分因為他可以不同的轉可以不同的帶著走但是農業只有一個農業而已所以我覺得這個東西我也會請我們的同仁就是彈性結算但是只還他的啦政府的部分因為他還沒到65歲嘛這個我們再來看看說我覺得不要跟農民叫因為你現在要開辦所以我已經講明了政府的部分你可以佐與\n\n12:46.903 --> 12:51.385\n所以你不要全部都退喔我真的就沒誘因喔就是農民你不可以有損失啦那個1比1的我農民繳的1你一定要全部還給我本金跟利息你也不要跟農民計較因為他是儲金講明了就是有利息的所以你要還給農民儲金好那政府繳的那個1\n\n13:06.832 --> 13:12.636\n那你也不要全部收回去譬如說你們看有一個比例按照你的加入的年份也好譬如說你加入10年我就只給你30%那你加入20年我政府就只退得更少這樣子\n\n13:26.767 --> 13:30.330\n這都是彈性但是你不要一次全部你懂我意思嗎然後你的政策一定要勾基你的容退譬如說我每年都有有機肥料補助欸我只要加入這個容退途徑我就可以每年都有有機肥料的補助\n\n13:45.060 --> 14:02.855\n那這也是一個很好啊也是鼓勵在有機肥料的使用啊輕容返鄉我們特別就希望特別輕容返鄉就有相關的補助啊所以你就應該勾結起來這樣他的意願就會高然後這再加上彈性的結算跟相關的保障而且譬如說你是電容的跟輕容的\n\n14:03.876 --> 14:11.502\n那我就特別的我特別在這個你的什麼機制上給你在這個農民退休儲金的部分你就可以怎麼樣的特別給他保障這也是可以想的啊譬如說你的1比1當中如果你是電農那我就給你政府退的我就退少一點可以退多一點給你也是一種獎勵啊這個我們會來方法很多啦所以這是一個誘因好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.032,"end":13.596,"text":"好,有請部長陳部長"},{"start":21.392,"end":45.298,"text":"好 這個我們怎麼來活化農退啊農民退休的這個保障機制這個政策工具是改變民眾行為的方法那我們來看現在農民退休儲金的這個加入退休儲金的狀況這些都是官方數據主計處在今年3月的時候針對農林榆木的就業實質就業是48.8萬"},{"start":48.279,"end":64.309,"text":"但是呢在今年3月的時候呢真的我國有加入榮保的是比48.8萬還多85.6萬但是沒有不是在這個就業人口並不是代表他是假農民喔其實他是符合資格的"},{"start":65.149,"end":69.591,"text":"好但是呢這當中的今年3月的時候呢我們這85.6萬當中真的有加入農民退休途徑的只有9.1萬而已差距很大而且呢如果我再擴大包含曾經參加過農退的而且含65歲以上已經領取這個的農民"},{"start":85.276,"end":94.36,"text":"那大概就是就是已經領了農退了已經現在在領農退如果這些人再加進去那大概有11萬而農保當中這85.6萬當中啊自耕農的加保是有到76.1但是呢卻有9.5萬的電農"},{"start":103.303,"end":131.788,"text":"所以本行認為這真的85.6萬當中真正又如果真的有這個優先順序的那個急迫性當然是針對沒有土地的電容因為這塊土地是我的啊我就算我不種了我退休了我土地還可以做一些出租啊或者是再做一些什麼什麼的運用啊但是對電容他耕作了一輩子他沒有土地他就就這樣退可是退了之後他的保障其實是我們應該政府用更大的力量的好"},{"start":132.768,"end":153.921,"text":"好那這個呢我就截取這個郭國文郭委員的他的提案的數據這是他去年113年9月的時候這個農民退休除菁啊當中農保的部分農保可以一直領嗎可以一直加我就可以加到八十幾歲九十幾歲我都可以加但是農保當中未滿65歲的被保人才佔所有農保的27.63%"},{"start":159.685,"end":165.728,"text":"好 那這當中呢 我這85.6當中呢 如果再細算如果是30歲以下 20到29歲的青龍他真的有提 去提這個融退的部分的 才24而已啦所以是非常低 其實你的簡報當中有提到"},{"start":178.075,"end":201.587,"text":"好那農民退休儲金是一個保障它是一個這個福利保障喔那現在是1.1我們兩位委員的提案是希望提到1.5那當然政府最早要增加到再增加15.5就是總而你們要如果這兩個法案過的話你們就是要準備農民的這個退休啊這個儲金要達新台幣46點46.5好等於好"},{"start":206.269,"end":223.886,"text":"但是呢增加也沒關係但是本席認為會不會增加農民的再增加農民農退儲金的誘因本席持保留態度那我們就爬數為什麼因為他不確定性高而導致參加意願低啊基層的農民認為精算後我農退的儲金跟勞保的勞年給付相差起來"},{"start":228.79,"end":236.757,"text":"差不多 這次老跑來比較高然後加上青榮從榮 我30歲從榮 我40歲從榮我要一直繳榮退的話 我要繳到65歲我才可以退 我中間從事了6年之後我想要退 我繳了6年的榮退了結果我繳了6年之後 我不想再種了"},{"start":251.849,"end":271.081,"text":"那我沒有辦法有一個彈性機制讓我可以把我腳的領回來那我怎麼知道我的農業我一直都可以一直從30歲一直做到65歲因為這個行業的不確定性太高所以對農退的儲金的制度觀望那當然了"},{"start":273.003,"end":285.354,"text":"這個我就爬數一下 農民不願參加農退雛精的原因大概有五項第一個我根本不清楚農退雛精的內容第二個我農業收入不穩定我不敢提撥我又要提 一方面我要提撥農保我一方面又要提撥農退哇 這兩個"},{"start":291.299,"end":311.071,"text":"這個在我收入不穩定的情況之下我不敢提拔我寧願先救我的榮保就好那第三個青榮認為要到65歲才能領這變數太多不像勞保的範疇我只要是勞工身份我現在在A公司我一來到B公司行業都不同我都可以我還是保有我的榮保但是我做榮保不好意思我一定要從容"},{"start":312.592,"end":332.762,"text":"那第四個部分農民的投保老保多年了他不願轉換有些有些青農或者是說中途轉進的農民他就直接投入老保多年了我也不願意轉換成農保再加入農退了因為其實再怎麼加起來都比不上我老保我加入老保的退休的60%"},{"start":337.184,"end":339.705,"text":"而且你也講對了 就是要加強宣導農民誤認農退除菁跟老農今天是互製的 其實不對的我其實只要有勞保 我也有加入65歲之後我可以同時加"},{"start":353.26,"end":369.67,"text":"接受勞保的保障我可以領老農津貼那如果我這65歲以前有加入勞退儲金我其實還是可以領的這三個是可以一起一個可以保障兩個繼續領的就是農退儲金跟老農津貼是可以繼續領的那但是農民會誤沒有誤人所以其實"},{"start":370.43,"end":382.564,"text":"第一個 第二個 第五個其實都是叫不清楚嘛不清楚他的農退的租金內容我收入也不穩定嘛然後我也不清楚說農退租金跟老農今天是可以同時領的好 再來"},{"start":385.492,"end":400.748,"text":"那重點啊還是要對於這個行業有黏著度嘛我對我這個行業有些心外探緊呀所以其實提高誘因在本席都支持這兩位委員的提案但是我覺得農業部你的本業"},{"start":401.909,"end":410.218,"text":"提高這個農業的競爭力其實農業的競爭力不是硬實力是軟實力 這是本席一直講什麼叫硬實力 就是你的硬體建設其實農業不是這個硬體建設你們的實力是在於軟實力的 我的品種權啊"},{"start":420.869,"end":423.971,"text":"我的行銷啊這個才是能夠讓他們賺錢所以其實要提高的是如果本席認同提高國家提撥比例但是在沒有自有農地的電農這9.5來講你要怎麼特別的"},{"start":435.639,"end":452.649,"text":"的保障所以我針對這些原因本席也認為說你應該強化農退租金跟老農經典的政策說明第二個推動農業的智慧化精準化並拓展新市場強化農民的收入第三個你要推動青農職業輔導不僅是吸引青農下鄉更應該提供對接的產銷服務及各級的專家諮詢第四個面對極端氣候的挑戰及市場的開放這本席上次已經都諮詢了"},{"start":463.135,"end":471.501,"text":"希望加速農業科技的軟實力在基因地區資料科學以及AI的應用的升級上縮小我國的經濟作物與國際主要的生產國的成本差距好我們就舉幾個例子日本的麝香葡萄他在2022年的時候發現到中國竊取他的品種這個取名叫做在中國叫做翡翠葡萄在日本叫麝香葡萄結果呢日本認為這是品種權你侵占了好我就告"},{"start":492.935,"end":516.961,"text":"那這個他就用告那相對於紐西蘭的奇異果中國也是竊取他啊讓他損失啦他除了告之外怎麼樣他改變他的商業模式修正他開發新品種變成紅肉的品種而且呢再透過他的品牌行銷就鞏固他的市場所以兩個國家兩個策略一個就是告我不研發新品種一個我告我研發新品種賺的更多"},{"start":519.081,"end":540.047,"text":"那甚至因為他有品牌我在跟中國買我就覺得紐西蘭很厲害沒關係啊 那個舊的你拿去 中國你拿去之後我給你買來變成我紐西蘭的品牌我賺的更多他反而做代工然後再加上我自己現在在開發的品牌所以這叫做這就是在行銷策略這才是軟實力啊好 這是面對市場開放"},{"start":541.647,"end":547.31,"text":"那包括今天豬價我們現在過這個端午節豬價飆高我們已經生產的這個通貨膨脹災災豬價飆高本席了解的豬價飆高的原因是什麼國內的豬仔死亡率過高啊這就是本席主張說豬隻生產的效益低落沒有導入先進的基因定序的原因過去的方法跟技術不是不好而是面對新的挑戰我們需要新的技術跟經驗長期完成農業數據的收集"},{"start":571.425,"end":599.575,"text":"才有科學化智慧化的治理的農業好那我回歸本本席的這個建議啊我認為這兩個人兩位立委的提案非常好但是我覺得要你們要有配套措施才更增加誘因第一個現有的補助方案如何勾結連結你的農民退休儲金譬如說你只要農民啊年輕青龍喔你只要願意來來你願意來加入我農民儲金我就每一年"},{"start":600.735,"end":625.065,"text":"給你農村年輕化的補助我就每一年給你土地友善的補助農地土地友善補助是包括你們返鄉的補助喔有機肥料每年都會補助你只要參加的一天我就補助你一天譬如這樣你要勾基連結你才有誘因嘛好但是這個還不夠第二個你農民退休除菁沒有是非牌付條款所以呢請評估本席最在意的就是沒有土地的"},{"start":626.926,"end":649.147,"text":"電農還有青農你應該相對應的給他保障跟獎獎勵就是彈性結算好譬如說我30歲我做了6年之後我真的做不下去了好啊那你是1比1嘛或者未來的1比1.5啊那我願意結算給你你自己繳的那個1或1.5我全部給你因為儲君有利息我也還給你但"},{"start":650.388,"end":667.813,"text":"我政府的這個一可能我就沒有辦法全部給你了我彈性也許我就給你六成就好我就給你七成就好類似的概念那這樣我算起來我有彈性可以退場機制啊那我政府的損失也沒那麼高因為它本身就是一個福利政策好 這樣我們沒有走商業保險所以我就覺得你這個彈性的結算跟保障"},{"start":674.415,"end":696.75,"text":"我覺得你是要考量的那針對扣結你現在對於青農啊跟土地友善的你只要願意參加除青我就每一年補助給你我覺得這樣才會讓兩位委員的美意大大的提高你的退休除青的這個參與力當然最後我要提出這個上次我質詢我希望你們在6月18號這是你們引落我的喔引落本席的喔針對國際農業先進國家的基因地區在農"},{"start":705.136,"end":718.531,"text":"魚 醋葉在台灣你給我提出一個品種參考國際先進的國家的他們的基因定序應用成功的案例提出來你們具體執行的方案好 針對這三點部長您回應一下謝謝委員非常"},{"start":719.292,"end":742.987,"text":"深入的這些分析跟建議我先針對最後一點就618號我們一定會有一個很完整的因為我已經親自去督導他們特別在畜牧業裡面的養豬的部分如何利用基因體育種的方式或者是篩選的方式讓我們的豬隻更健康這第一點那第二點的部分就是您剛才講的彈性結算的部分那依現在來講我們是65歲才可以嘛"},{"start":743.447,"end":765.582,"text":"那勞工的部分因為他可以不同的轉可以不同的帶著走但是農業只有一個農業而已所以我覺得這個東西我也會請我們的同仁就是彈性結算但是只還他的啦政府的部分因為他還沒到65歲嘛這個我們再來看看說我覺得不要跟農民叫因為你現在要開辦所以我已經講明了政府的部分你可以佐與"},{"start":766.903,"end":771.385,"text":"所以你不要全部都退喔我真的就沒誘因喔就是農民你不可以有損失啦那個1比1的我農民繳的1你一定要全部還給我本金跟利息你也不要跟農民計較因為他是儲金講明了就是有利息的所以你要還給農民儲金好那政府繳的那個1"},{"start":786.832,"end":792.636,"text":"那你也不要全部收回去 譬如說你們看有一個比例 按照你的加入的年份也好譬如說你加入10年 我就只給你30%那你加入20年 我政府就只退得更少這樣子"},{"start":806.767,"end":810.33,"text":"這都是彈性 但是你不要一次全部你懂我意思嗎然後你的政策一定要勾基你的容退譬如說我每年都有有機肥料補助欸我只要加入這個容退途徑我就可以每年都有有機肥料的補助"},{"start":825.06,"end":842.855,"text":"那這也是一個很好啊 也是鼓勵在有機肥料的使用啊 輕容返鄉我們特別就希望特別輕容返鄉就有相關的補助啊所以你就應該勾結起來 這樣他的意願就會高然後這再加上彈性的結算跟相關的保障 而且譬如說你是電容的跟輕容的"},{"start":843.876,"end":851.502,"text":"那我就特別的 我特別在這個你的什麼機制上給你在這個農民退休儲金的部分你就可以怎麼樣的特別給他保障 這也是可以想的啊譬如說你的1比1當中 如果你是電農那我就給你政府退的 我就退少一點可以退多一點給你 也是一種獎勵啊這個我們會來 方法很多啦所以這是一個誘因 好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":305,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（9時47分）有請部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["林委員岱樺：我們怎麼來活化農退──農民退休的保障機制？政策工具是改變民眾行為的方法，我們來看現在農民加入退休儲金的狀況。這些都是官方數據，主計處在今年3月針對農林漁牧就業調查，實質就業是48.8萬人，但是今年3月我國真的有加入農保的人比48.8萬還多，是85.6萬。不在這個就業人口並不代表他就是假農民，他是符合資格的，但是這85.6萬人當中真的有加入農民退休儲金的只有9.1萬而已，差距很大。如果再擴大，包含曾經參加過農退而且現在已經65歲以上在領取農退的農民再加進去，大概有11萬。這85.6萬投保農保的人當中，自耕農加保有到76.1萬，卻有9.5萬的佃農，所以本席認為這85.6萬當中，如果真的有優先順序的急迫性，當然是針對沒有土地的佃農。因為這塊土地是我的，就算我不種了、我退休了，我的土地還可以出租或者是再做一些什麼運用，但是佃農耕作了一輩子，他沒有土地就這樣退休，可是他退了之後的保障機制是政府應該投入更大力量的。","我擷取郭國文委員提案的數據，這是他去（113）年9月提出的，農保的部分可以一直加，到八十幾歲、九十幾歲都可以加，但是有提繳農民退休儲金的人只占所有農保未滿65歲被保險人的27.63%。這85.6萬當中再細算，如果是30歲以下、20到29歲的青農真的有提繳農退的才24%而已，所以非常低，其實你的簡報也有提到。農民退休儲金是一個福利保障，現在是1比1，我們兩位委員的提案是希望提高到1比1.5，當然政府最少要再增加15.5億預算即如果這兩個法案通過，你們要準備農民退休儲金預算總額就達新臺幣46.5億。增加也沒關係，但會不會增加農民參加農退儲金的誘因？本席持保留態度。我們就爬梳為什麼？因為它不確定性高，而導致參加意願低。基層農民認為精算後農退儲金跟勞保老年給付比起來差不多，甚至勞保還比較高，加上青農30歲、40歲從農要一直繳農退的話，要繳到65歲才可以退！假設中間從事六年之後想要退、繳了六年的農退之後不想再種了，卻沒有辦法有一個彈性機制，讓我可以把我繳的領回來，我怎麼知道從農可不可以一直從30歲做到65歲？因為這個行業的不確定性太高，所以對農退儲金制度觀望。","當然我就爬梳一下，農民不願參加農退儲金的原因大概有五項：第一個、根本不清楚農退儲金的內容。第二個、農業收入不穩定，所以不敢提撥。一方面要提撥農保，另一方面又要提撥農退，這兩個在收入不穩定的情況之下，不敢提撥，寧願先救農保就好。第三個、青農認為要到65歲才能領，變數太多，不像勞保的範疇，只要是勞工身分，現在在A公司，可以到B公司，就算行業不同也都可以，還是保有勞保；但是投農保，不好意思，一定要從農。第四個、部分農民投保勞保多年，不願轉換，有些青農或者中途轉進的農民，就直接投入勞保，因為保很多年了，所以不願意轉換成農保，再加入農退，而且再怎麼加起來都比不上加入勞保退休的60%。第五個、你也講對了，要加強宣導，因為農民誤認農退儲金跟老農津貼是互斥的，其實不對！只要有農保，65歲之後可以同時接受農保的保障、領老農津貼，如果65歲以前有加入農退儲金，其實還是可以領的，這兩個可以一起領。除了農保可以繼續保障，農退儲金跟老農津貼兩個都是可以繼續領的，但是農民會誤認，所以第一個、第二個、第五個都叫不清楚農退儲金的內容，因為收入不穩定，也不清楚農退儲金跟老農津貼是可以同時領的。","再來，重點還是要對於這個行業有黏著度，我對這個行業有信心，因為會賺錢，所以要提高誘因。本席支持這兩位委員的提案，因為我覺得農業部的本業是提高農業的競爭力，而農業的競爭力不是硬實力，是軟實力。這是本席一直講的，什麼叫硬實力？就是硬體建設，但農業不是硬體建設，你們的實力在於軟實力，例如品種權、行銷，才能夠讓他們賺錢。本席認同提高國家提撥比例，但是對9.5萬沒有自有農地的佃農來講，你們要怎麼特別保障？","針對這些問題，本席認為第一個、應該強化農退儲金跟老農津貼的政策說明。第二個、推動農業智慧化、精準化，並拓展新市場，強化農民收入。第三個、要推動青農職業輔導，不僅是吸引青農下鄉，更應該提供對接的產銷服務及各級專家諮詢。第四個、面對極端氣候挑戰及市場開放，本席上次已經都質詢過了，希望加速農業科技的軟實力，在基因定序、資料、科學以及AI應用上升級，縮小我國經濟作物與國際主要生產國的成本差距。我們就舉幾個例子，日本的麝香葡萄，在2022年的時候日本就發現中國竊取它的品種，在中國取名叫做翡翠葡萄，在日本叫麝香葡萄，結果日本認為這是品種權，你侵占了，我就告，它就用告的。相對於紐西蘭的奇異果，中國也是竊取它，讓它損失，除了告之外，它怎麼樣？它改變其商業模式並修正、開發新品種，變成紅肉的品種，而且再透過它的品牌行銷來鞏固市場。所以兩個國家、兩個策略，一個就是告，不研發新品種；一個除了告，還研發新品種，賺得更多，甚至因為它有品牌，就再跟中國買。我覺得紐西蘭很厲害，沒關係，舊的中國你拿去，你拿去之後，我買來變成我紐西蘭的品牌，我賺得更多，它反而做代工，再加上我自己現在開發的品牌，所以這就是行銷策略，這才是軟實力。","這是面對市場開放，包括今天的豬價，我們現在過端午節，豬價飆高，我們已經產生通貨膨脹，再加豬價飆高，本席了解豬價飆高的原因是什麼，國內的豬仔死亡率過高，這就是本席主張豬隻生產的效益低落，沒有導入先進基因定序的原因，過去的方法跟技術不是不好，而是面對新的挑戰，我們需要新的技術跟經驗，長期完成農業數據的蒐集，才有科學化、智慧化治理的農業。","我回歸本席的建議，我認為這兩位立委的提案非常好，但是我覺得你們要有配套措施才更增加誘因。第一個，現有的補助方案如何勾稽鏈結你的農民退休儲金？譬如只要是農民、青農願意來加入農民儲金，我就每一年給你農村年輕化的補助，每一年給你土地友善的補助，土地友善補助是包括青農返鄉及有機肥料的補助，每年都會補助，你只要參加一天，我就補助一天，譬如這樣，要有勾稽鏈結，你才有誘因嘛！但是這個還不夠。","第二個，農民退休儲金是非排富條款，所以請評估本席最在意的，沒有土地的佃農還有青農應該相對應給他保障跟獎勵，就是彈性結算，譬如我30歲，做了6年之後真的做不下去了，好啊，你是1比1或者未來的1比1.5，我願意結算給你，你自己繳的1或1.5，我全部給你，因為儲金有利息，我也還給你，但政府的這個1，可能就沒有辦法全部給你了，我彈性也許給你六成就好、給你七成就好，類似的概念，這樣算起來，我有彈性退場機制，而政府的損失也沒那麼高，因為它本身就是一個福利政策。我們沒有走商業保險，所以這個彈性結算跟保障，我覺得你是要考量的，而針對鏈結的部分，現在對於青農跟土地友善的，你只要願意參加儲金，我就每一年補助給你，我覺得這樣才會讓兩位委員的美意來大大提高退休儲金的參與率。","當然，最後我要提出，上次我有質詢，我希望你們在6月18號，這是你們允諾本席的，針對國際農業先進國家的基因定序，對於在臺灣的農、漁、畜業請提出一個品種，參考國際先進國家的基因定序應用成功的案例，提出你們具體執行的方案。針對這三點，請部長回應一下。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員這些非常深入的分析跟建議，我先針對最後一點，6月18號我們一定會有一個很完整的……因為我已經親自督導他們，特別在畜牧業裡面養豬的部分，如何利用基因育種的方式或者是篩選的方式，讓我們的豬隻更健康，這是第一點。第二點，您剛才講彈性結算的部分，依現在來講，我們是65歲才可以嘛！勞工的部分因為他可以不同的轉、可以不同的帶著走，但是農業只有一個農業而已……"],["林委員岱樺：對。"],["陳部長駿季：所以這個東西，我也會請我們的同仁就是彈性結算，但只還他的，政府的部分因為他還沒到65歲，這個我們再來看看……"],["林委員岱樺：我覺得不要跟農民這樣，因為你現在要開辦，所以我已經講明了，政府的部分你可以酌予……不要全部都退，否則就沒誘因，農民不能有損失，他繳1比1，農民繳的1，你一定要全部還給他本金，利息你也不要跟農民計較，因為它是儲金，講明了就是有利息的，所以你要還給農民儲金，至於政府繳的那個1，你也不要全部收回去，譬如你們可以有一個比例，按照你加入的年份也好，譬如你加入10年，我只給你30%，你加入20年，政府就只退你……就是退得更少這樣子，這都是彈性，但是你不要一次全部……"],["陳部長駿季：這我知道，我們會來……"],["林委員岱樺：你懂我意思嗎？然後你的政策一定要勾稽你的農退，譬如我只要加入農退儲金，就可以每年都有有機肥料的補助，這也是很好，也是鼓勵有機肥料的使用，還有青農返鄉，我們都特別希望青農返鄉就有相關的補助，所以你就應該勾稽起來，這樣他的意願就會高，再加上彈性的結算跟相關保障，譬如說你是佃農和青農，我就在什麼機制上特別針對農民退休儲金的部分，你就可以看怎麼樣特別給他保障，這也是可以想的啊，譬如說，你的1比1當中，如果你是佃農，政府退的部分，就退多一點給你，也是一種獎勵啊！"],["陳部長駿季：這個我們會來……"],["林委員岱樺：方法很多啦。"],["陳部長駿季：我知道。"],["林委員岱樺：所以都是一個誘因，好，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：現在請張啓楷委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-15","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","林岱樺","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","郭國文","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","林俊憲","呂玉玲"],"page_start":195,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案；二、本院\n委員郭國文等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1145401_00005"}}}